elderberries-msg - 9/7/10 Medieval use of elderberries. Processing them and recipes. NOTE: See also the files: wine-msg, berries-msg, lavender-msg, rose-syrup-msg, sumac-msg, cherries-msg, grapes-msg, fruits-msg, Period-Fruit-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:50:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries To: Cooks within the SCA It's easiest if you pick the cluster and then use a fork to separate the berries from the stems. Grandpa made pancake syrup with the ripe berries--you have to cook them to make them edible anyway. It's too late for elderflower fritters, which is the other thing we did with them. Margaret FitzWilliam On Sun, 10 Aug 2008, Lynn wrote: <<< I have a plethora of wild elderberries in various stages of ripening. Some will be ripe in a day or two and some are still very small and green and will ripen within a week or so (just guessing), while other clusters have just finished bloom stage. Has anyone had experience with doing things with wild elderberries? All suggestions and recipes would be appreciated. I'm also interested in hearing your experiences in the picking and stem removal of the berries. Lynn the Inquisitive >>> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:19:02 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries To: Cooks within the SCA Have you seen http://www.elderberries.com/ ? We had them growing wild at home on the farm, but I can't recall ever doing anything with them. Johnnae Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:24:56 -0500 From: Harry Bilings Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries To: I have made wine with them one time. Did not remove the stems and should have. I don't know of an easy way to do so but they (the stems) messed with the wine. You might be able to crush the berries stem and all and just use the juice. plachoya Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:50:47 -0400 From: Kean Gryffyth Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries To: Cooks within the SCA Here's a recipe for Elderberry Liquor. This produces a strikingly deep purple liquor with a pleasant taste. Note: This recipe assumes you have some knowledge of the process of producing liquors. If anyone needs assistance on that front, I can define the terms and techniques upon request. From "Cordials from your kitchen" 4 cups fresh elderberries, picked over and washed 2 cups sugar 1 teaspoon lemon zest 2 tablespoons fresh squeezed lemon juice 1 cup water 3 cups 100 proof vodka Crush Elderberries and Sugar together in a bowl. Let stand for about 1 hour. Add Lemon Zest and Lemon Juice. Transfer to clean 2 quart container and add Water and Vodka. Cover and let stand in a cool, dark place for 1 month, shaking occasionally. Use a fine mesh strainer to stain out solids, discard solids. Transfer liquor to a clean container and left stand for 1 week. Rack or filter into final container. Cover and age 1 month more before serving. Yield: approx. 1.5 quarts, -Kean Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:43:17 +0200 From: TG Subject: SC - Help finding an Elderflower Tart Recipe << Does anyone know where I can find an Elderflower Tart Recipe?? >> - -- Anonimo Veneziano #99 torta (additional #27: fritelle, #71, #72 sambugado) - -- Cuoco Napoletano #135 torta (additional #173: fritelle) Scully mentions a further recipe in: - -- Forme of Cury #179 - -- Maestro Martino + Riva del Garda #148 torta, additional #184, #192 fritelle + Urb.Lat has recipes for torta, minestra and fritelle - -- Platina VIII 32 Torta Sambucea (Elderberry Pie; "...elder flowers") - -- Not a tart, but an interesting recipe in Rumpolt: Take the elderflowers on the stalk (?), wash them and put them into a hot, sweet dough, then cook them in hot fat and put sugar onto it (the German text is online in the 'Gebackenes'-chapter of Rumpolt; #13). I heard that this is still made in Bohemia today. There are many recipes for _Holdermus_ in the German corpus, e.g. #38 in the Sabina Welserin cookbook, to mention a recipe, where you have not only the original, but also a translation online. -- There is a recipe for elderflower honey in the cookbook of Goethe's grandmother from 1724 "Holler Honig zu machen" ... but I begin to digress. Thomas Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:44:08 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries was Theatre food in Elizabethan England <<< Seems like we need to go to the source to determine how they did the botanical identifications. Then perhaps deconstruct, "CSI fashion" from the evidence, what other ingredients were in those pies. Determining the ingredients list we can then attempt to reconstruct the pies. I only hope that they were not working with the long preserved end products of human digestion. Daniel >>> Davidson in the Oxford Companion to Food gives an interesting quote (American Botanist, 1905) about elderberry pie not appealing to many palates due to the rank eldery flavor. A pie needs to be made from full ripe berries that have been picked and dried. The period recipes I've encountered call for the flowers rather than the berries. Bear Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:33:33 +0100 From: "Susanne Mayer" To: Subject: [Sca-cooks] was Theatre food in Elizabethan England is Blackberry and elderberry/flower Just a notice: Elderflowers (take the whole flower head) in dough are also a popular spring dish in Austria (and parts of Germany). (and it is still made in the same manner). As well as Hollermus (Holdermus) which is also still made here. And yes, Hollermus is an acquired taste and has to be made from very ripe berries (if the birds leave you any!) as uncooked the berries are poisenous. It is not only an accompaniment to sweet dishes like pancakes/omelets, curd dumplings, wheat semolina (Schmarren) dishes but also tastes great with venison. Blackberries are in germany also called blueberries (Schwarzbeeren, blaubeeren, heidelbeeren are all the same: Vaccinium myrtillus). there are a couple of synonyms to be found in the wiktionary http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Blaubeere Black currants are *ribisl* (derived from ribes latin and italian) in Austria and Bavaria. Blackberries and elderberries will be ripe almost at the same time (July to September, blackberries and august to september elderberries). Regards Katharina from the rural south of Austria, where a lot of the old traditional food is still made and eaten,.... ;-) snip.... <<< - -- Not a tart, but an interesting recipe in Rumpolt: Take the elderflowers on the stalk (?), wash them and put them into a hot, sweet dough, then cook them in hot fat and put sugar onto it (the German text is online in the 'Gebackenes'-chapter of Rumpolt; #13). I heard that this is still made in Bohemia today. There are many recipes for _Holdermus_ in the German corpus, e.g. #38 in the Sabina Welserin cookbook, to mention a recipe, where you have not only the original, but also a translation online. -- There is a recipe for elderflower honey in the cookbook of Goethe's grandmother from 1724 "Holler Honig zu machen" ... but I begin to digress. Thomas >>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:08:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderberries On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, kristiwhykelly at aol.com wrote: <<< Any suggestions for elderberries? Other than wine, I mean. Grace >>> Period or non? You can use them to make a dye--depending on what prep the fiber has you either get a very fugitive pink or a similarly fugitive blueish-greenish-grey. We used to make pancake syrup out of them, and fritters with the flowers. Margaret FitzWilliam Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:44:07 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderberries 149. To make Syrup of Elder. Take ElderBerries when they are red, bruise them in a Stone Mortar, strain the Juice, and boyl it away to almost half, scum it very clean, take it off the fire whilst it is hot; put in Sugar to the thickness of a Syrup, put it no more on the fire, when it is cold, put it into Glasses, not filling them to the top, for it will work like Beer. The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving... 1675 I checked EEBO-TCP and there are not that many recipes. One book gives a recipe for a Cherry tart and then says 'use other berries'. There's a wine recipe in Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery. Johnnae On Jun 17, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Pixel, Goddess and Queen wrote: <<< I haven't found many period recipes for the berries so much, perhaps because they are toxic and bitter unless they're cooked. You can make jam/jelly/preserves with them as well as wine, as mentioned we (or, rather, my grandfather) made syrup, and there are period recipes for using the berries to make a blue color on leather. Margaret FitzWilliam >>> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:43:03 -0700 (PDT) From: wheezul at canby.com To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderberries <<< When I was a kid, my family used to make jelly with them... Devra >>> This is my translation of an elderberry recipe in Kuchenmaisterey of 1529: It's found in book one, chapter 47 Das xlvii. Capitel. `Item ein ander holdermu? von beren / Nym die holderber / wasch sie sch?n / nym dann wey? gebeets brot / sto? die ber und das brot mit guttem wein oder h?nerbr? / thu geri?nen leckuchen oder h?nig dar- zu / machs ab mit w?rzen / treyb es durch ein tuch in einen hafen oder in ein pfannen. la? wallen und see w?rtz darauff. Item wilt du machen ein mu? von mu?bieren / So thu inen also den holderberen. The XLVII Chapter Item another elderberry sauce [mush] from berries. Take the elderberries / wash them well [care implied] / take then white dried out bread / grind the berries and the bread with good wine or chicken stock / do [add] grated lebkuchen or honey there-to / make up with spices / force it through a cloth in a pot or in a pan ? let boil and sow [strew] spices thereon. Item ? [if] you want to make a sauce [mush] from cranberries [lingon/cow/fox berries]/ So do to them as for the elderberries. The word gebeets can also mean toasted, but I haven't read enough of this book to specify which treatment the author might mean. Here I suspect since the word white is specified that dried may be the desired ingredient specification. Lebkuchen/leckuchen is a spice cake that is sweetened with honey and a mixture of spices. It could be double baked (zweiback) for dryness and one sees grated lebkuchen called out in recipes fairly often. It seems to me that these recipes would make the Scandinavian type berry soups or perhaps a jelly depending on the amount of pectin in the fruit? I note that my Penguin Companion to Food says that elderberries need extra pectin to set into a jelly and are often mixed with apples or crabapples for that purpose. The preceding recipeto this one is for egg dough noodles boiled in milk prepared with elderberry flowers, then salted and enriched with butter fat. That sounds good to me. Thank you for the opportunity to learn more about elderberries and the flowers. I was curious when I translated them in a couple of indices. Katherine Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:59:07 -0700 (PDT) From: wheezul at canby.com To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderberries <<< Wow that was great, if you have the time I would love the noodle/elderflower translation. So, it would be reasonable to use the recipe with currants as well! >>> I'll give it a shot :) Das. xlvi. Capitel. Holdermu? zumachen / nim holderpl?t vnd brock sie in ein sieden- de gutte milch / ein gut teyl / la? sieden / treyb es durch ein tuch / mach einen herten teyg von ayern / vnd welg darau? d?nne bletter / schneyd den teyg klein in w?rmleins wey? / thu in inn die siedende milch / das sie ymmerts sied / vnnd r?r das gar wol / das es sich vermische / saltzes es vnd machs ab mit milch schmaltz. The. XLVI. Chapter. Elderberry mush to make / take elderbloom and crumble it in a simmering good milk / a good portion / let it simmer / force it through a cloth / make a hard [stiff] dough from eggs / and roll there out thin sheets / cut the dough small in wormlike fashion / do [put] it in the simmering milk / that it continues to simmer / and stir it quite well /[so]that it is mixed [together] / salt it and make it up with milk fat. The German without the diacritical marks: Das. xlvi. Capitel. Holdermuss zumachen / nim holderpluet vnd brock sie in ein sieden- de gutte milch / ein gut teyl / lass sieden / treyb es durch ein tuch / mach einen herten teyg von ayern / vnd welg darauss duenne bletter / schneyd den teyg klein in wuermleins weyss / thu in inn die siedende milch / das sie ymmerts sied / vnnd ruer das gar wol / das es sich vermische / saltzes es vnd machs ab mit milch schmaltz. I'm not quite sure in context of this author if milch schmaltz means heavy cream or butter, as in other sources both words are used as well as a word specifically for cream. But I do get the idea that this could be a pretty creamy dish with the milk and all :) Katherine Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:32:50 -0500 From: Jennifer Carlson To: Cooks list Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elderberries I've bought dried elderflowers from my local brewing supply store. Tulsa also has a large New Age store with a sizeable herb department that carries them sometimes. I don't remember if Whole Foods does. Talana Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:51:25 -0400 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: [Sca-cooks] elderberries/flowers in Rumpolt And again yes you remember correctly there seems to be a rumpold recipe: Rumpolt has a couple recipes using elder. He uses the words "Holunder" or "Hollunder" as well as "Holder". Ein Salat von den gr?nen Butzen vom Holder/ fein gequellt. A salad from the green (or fresh) core from elder/ nicely poached. Ein gr?nen Holder Salat/ der gar jung ist. A green (or fresh) elder salad/ that is very young. Zugem?? 108. Nim~ Holunder/ es sey d?rr oder gr?n/ sonderlich aber die Bl?t/ thu sie in eine Milch/ vnd la? damit auffsieden/ seig die Milch durch ein H?rin Tuch/ thu die Holderbl?t hinweg/ r?r in die Milch eyngebrennt Mehl/ wenns auffgesotten ist/ so saltz es ab/ vnd richt es an/ wirff Brot dar?ber/ dz klein geschnitten/ bestr?w es wit weissem Zucker/ so wirt es gut vnnd wolgeschmack/ schmeckt lieblich nach der Holderbl?t. Take elder/ be it dry or green/ particularly however the flowers/ put them in a milk/ and let come to a boil with it/ pour the milk through a hair cloth/ take the elderflowers away/ stir browned flour into the milk/ when it is cooked/ thus salt (season?) it/ and serve it/ through bread over it/ that is sliced small/ sprinkle it with white sugar/ like this it becomes good and well tasting/ tastes lovely from the elderflowers. Gebackens 13. Mach ein Teig an mit lauter Eiern oder Milch/ die s?? ist/ nimb Holderbl?t mit dem Stengel/ vnd wasch fein sauber au? reinem Wasser/ schwings wohl au?/ da? kein Wasser daran hangt/ sto? in Teig/ vnd la? jhn wohl herab rinnen/ sto? darnach in heisse Butter/ vnd r?rs auff vnd nider/ so gibt es sich voneinander/ vnd b?ckt durchau? wol/ gibs warm auff einen Tisch/ vnd bestr?w es mit weissem Zucker. 13. Make a batter with clean eggs or milk/ that is sweet/ take elder flowers with the stem/ and wash finely clean with pure water/ shake well/ that no water hangs to it/ dip into dough/ and let it run off/ then push into hot butter/ and stir back and forth/ so they stay separate/ and fry well/ give warm on a table/ and sprinkle it with white sugar. Confect 24. Du magst auch wol ein solche Latwerge machen von Hollunderbeer/ da? man kein Gew?rz darvnter nimpt/ nur Zucker/ oder one Zucker/ sonderlich wenn man es brauchen wil zur Artzeney. 24. You also well one such preserve make from elderberry/ that one takes no spices with/ only sugar/ or without sugar/ especially if one will need it for medicine. Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:34:01 -0400 From: Sam Wallace To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderberries/flowers in Rumpolt I just tried the elder flower recipe below with some flowers I got from a friend's place. There were some late bloomers on the property. The berries are coming in season now. The flowers are tiny and white, but turned brownish as they wilted in the milk. They added a delicate flavor to the mix. I used a whisk to stir in the flour, which got the job done, but was not used by cooks in Rumpolt's time. I gave samples to my wife and two of my daughters. They all had the same reaction: stop, think for a minute, comment that it was "different," continue, eat the first sample, ask for a second, make the remaining mix disappear. I think this is a simple and unusual dish that makes a worthwhile addition to a chef's repertoire. Guillaume ******************************** Take elder/ be it dry or green/ particularly however the flowers/ put them in a milk/ and let come to a boil with it/ pour the milk through a hair cloth/ take the elderflowers away/ stir browned flour into the milk/ when it is cooked/ thus salt (season?) it/ and serve it/ through bread over it/ that is sliced small/ sprinkle it with white sugar/ like this it becomes good and well tasting/ tastes lovely from the elderflowers. Edited by Mark S. Harris elderberries-msg Page 9 of 9