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dates-msg - 6/17/12

Period date fruits. Recipes.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:35:19 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: Food for Children

How's about Dulcia Domestica, a Roman date stuffed with nuts, my kids love em

and eat them like candy,

Here is the recipe, very "Child Do-able"

Original Recipe #294 Flower and Rosenbaum edition of Apicius

Little home confections(which are called dulciaria) are made thus: little

palms or (as they are ordinarily called) dates are struffed- after the seeds

have been removed- with a nut or with nuts and ground pepper, sprinkled with

salt on the outside and are candied in honey and served.

Redacted Recipe

3 1/2 oz walnut halves

13 oz pitted dried dates

1 tsp fresh ground long pepper

3/4 cup honey plus 1/4 cup water

1/4 tsp salt

Roast the walnuts on a baking sheet in a hot over(425 degrees) for 5 minutes.

Prepare the dates by gently prying open and inserting walnut piece

(approximately º walnut). Close and set aside. When complete, sprinkle salt

over dates.

In a heavy skillet combine honey/water and pepper. Heat to a boil and reduce

to a low simmer.

Place the dates into the honey and cook about 3-5 minutes or until just soft.

Remove dates and set aside to cool. Can be stored in a cool dry place. Makes

about 80 treats.

I would remove the honey from the hot pan and put into a measuring cup for

the children to pour over the dates, mix them up and place on waxed paper to

cool. Yum.

Hauviette

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:17:14 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Quick inquiry

And it came to pass on 7 Jul 00,, that twila hoon wrote:

> So the question is does anyone have a _date_ recipe that is period (from

> any region) that uses dates honey or sugar and flour to yield a cakeish

> type dish that can be cut up like 'fine cakes'

There is a recipe in the Miscellany for hais, which is a sweet made of

dates, bread crumbs, ground nuts, and sugar. However, hais is rolled

into little balls, not shaped into cakes. The recipe is webbed here:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/desserts.html#1

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 09:44:34 EDT

From: Seton1355 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Quick inquiry REC:DATE TART

These are my only date recipes. The second one is not a tart, but thought

I'd send it anyway.

Phillipa

From Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin, Sabina Welserin, published 1553

DATE TART

#188 Dattlentorten z? machen

Schneidt die dattlen/vnnd thiet die keren hera?s, siedt s? jn ainem siessen

wein/lands ain wenig sieden/vnnd legts fein a?ff den boden/vnnd seet z?cker

vnnd zimerrerlen dara?ff/vnd legt fein die dattlen dara?ff, vmb vnd vmb

gelegt/vnnd wider ain z?cker vnnd zimmerrerlen dara?ffgeseet, vnnd macht ain

deckin dariber/vnnd ge?? ain wenig ain brielin daran, wie die dattlen darinen

gesotten seind, vnnd lasts bachen.

(from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Herausgegeben von Hugo Stopp. Mit

einer ‹bersetzung von Ulrike Gei?mann. Heidelberg 1980. Provided by Thomas

Gloning)

#188 To make a date tart

Cut up the dates and take out the pits. Cook them in sweet wine, let them

boil a little,

Lay them attractively in a pastry shell and sprinkle sugar and cinnamon on

top of it and lay the dates in a circle and again sprinkle sugar and cinnamon

on top. And make a cover over it and pour on it some of the broth in which

the dates were cooked, and let it bake. (Translation by Valoise

Armstrong)

My Version:

1 pastry shell

1 pastry top

10 oz. whole dates

1 cup sweet wine

Sugar

Cinnamon

Pit dates and cut them into halves.

Place dates in pan with wine and bring to a boil.

Boil for 5 to 10 minutes, then remove dates and let cool.

Place a layer of dates in the pastry shell then sprinkle with sugar and

cinnamon.

Place another layer of dates into pastry shell, then sprinkle with sugar and

cinnamon. Continue in this way until pastry shell is full.

Place top crust on pastry, pierce with knife and pour some of the wine the

dates were cooked in over the top crust.

Bake at 425 for 30 minutes.

HONEY DATES

ROME TO RENAISSANCE P35

5 oz dates

2 oz pine nuts

2 tbsp honey

sea salt

1. Boil honey, allow to cool and skim

2. Stone the dates and stuff with pine nuts

3. Salt lighly and fry in the honey for 2-3 minutes

4. Drain and serve

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:08:52 -0400

From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Quick inquiry

> So the question is does anyone have a _date_ recipe that is period (from

> any region) that uses dates honey or sugar and flour to yield a cakeish

> type dish that can be cut up like 'fine cakes'

Leche lumbard is a possibility, though it uses Wine and takes

Breadcrumbs for thickening. If made correctly, the paste holds

its shape moderately well, and can be picked up and eaten

with the fingers.

Here is the recipe and my redaction, You'll probably want to double

the recipe:

Original

Boyle datys in swete wyne; grynd hem. Draw hem with the same wyne as

chargeaunt as ye may do em, yn a pott with sygure. Boyle hit. Put

therto poudur of gynger & canell, a grete dele; stere hit well togedyr.

Yf hit be nowghte styfe ynowght, put thereto hard yolks of eyron or

gratyd brede; or els thu may boyle brawn and draw hit thorow a

streynour withour eny lycour. in the boylyng, do hit togedyr. Also thu

may do with al maner of leche lumbard that thu makyste, and yn lentyn

tyme thu may have of sundez of stockfisch. when hit ys boyled, take out

of the pott; do hit on a bord. Presse hit togedyr. when hit is colde,

cut hit in brede leches & serve hit forth, a leche or ii in a dysch,

and power a little clarre aboven.

My version (serves 100- 120)

Four Pounds of Pitted dates

Three cups sugar

Two to three cups well dried plain white bread crumbs

Three tablespoons of Cinnamon

One tablespoon of Ginger Powder

Ginger powder to garnish

More white bread crumbs

Red Wine (I used Almaden)

Put dates in pot and add enough wine to cover them plus one inch. Boil

it for about twenty minutes (the skins should come off the dates.)

Sieve out the dates, reserving the wine.

Grind the dates in a processor until smooth, adding only enough

reserved wine to enable processing. The dates should be a thick smooth

paste like cooked oatmeal, and hold the shape of a spoon wen drawn

through. It should not be runny.

Put the paste into a pot, add sugar, spices, and, a scant cup of wine,

(less if the paste is thin or runny) and heat, slowly, stirring until

spices and sugar dissolves, and the mixture is heated through.

(careful, it is a thick Paste and will burn quickly!). Stir in the

bread crumbs, and take off heat, let it cool to a handling temperature.

Strew breadcrumbs on a sheet of plastic wrap, and plop a generous

amount of the mixture on the crumbs. Roll up into a thick (1 1/2 to 2

inches diameter) log shape and wrap with the plastic, and refridgreate.

repeat for as When completely cooled, unwrap, cut into thick slices

(about 3/4 inch) and arrange in bowl, sprinkle with ginger, and serve.

Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:16:30 -0700 (PDT)

From: Nisha Martin <nishamartin at yahoo.com>

Subject: SC - dates

>There is nothing to compare with a freshly dried emperess or medjul date -

>instead of one that has sat in a warehouse for a few months, then transshipped

)east, and plonked in a warehouse for a nother few months to a year ;-( that is

>what WE here in the east get stuck with.

>margali

Hadleys is one of those places that sells those

wonderful creamy dates you spoke of. They also do mail

order and have a website.

www.hadley.com (i think) it may be hadleys.

But they are in cabazon which is very close to palm

springs on I-10. We used to stop on our way to Phoenix

from Fort Irwin. But they have a money back guarantee.

Thye are a little pricey, but the people hwo work

there have a good working knowledge of the different

kind of dates. Medjool are my favorite. The deglets

remind me of those big water bug type roaches we had at

school when I was a kid. Just can't eat them, at

least not whole. But they are a really good date

sourch. They raise and sell and ship their own stuff.

They also have a line of really good wine too. Desert

wines, mead, etc. But I highly recommend them. But I

just thought I'd share.

nisha

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] period date info?

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:32:36 -0500

Arrack derived from the Arabic "araq" meaning sweet juice. "Araq at-tamr"

means fermented juice of the date. These days it is made from pine sap,

rice or molasses.

Bear

Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 00:49:35 +0200

From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] dates

<< Anyone have any period recipes using dates? >>

Strolling through some texts, I saw that there are recipes with dates

now and then:

LATIN

-- Apicius

-- a latin cookbooks edited by Mulon (around 1300)

ARABIC

-- Al-Baghdadi (date-juice, date-syrup, dry dates, fresh dates)

ENGLISH

-- Div. Cibaria

-- Div. Servicia

-- Forme of cury

-- the two Austin cookboks

-- Ms. Harleian 5401

-- The Pepys manuscript

-- the 1594 Handmaide

-- the cookbook of Murrell 1615

ITALIAN

-- The Anonimo Toscano

-- The Anonimo Veneziano

-- The Anonimo Meridionale, Libro B

-- The Manoscritto Lucano

-- Maestro Martino

-- The Nizza collection

SPANISH

-- De Nola

-- Granado

-- Hernandez de Maceras

GERMAN

-- Rumpolt 1581 (soup of date kernels, date tart)

-- A Nuremberg cookbook 1609

-- The cookbook of Philippine Welser 1545

-- The cookbook of Sabina Welser 1553

-- A 1560 German cookbook

FRENCH

-- Menagier ("figues, dates, roisons"

-- Taillevent

-- Chiquart

-- Lancelot de Casteau 1604 ("vne douziesme de dates")

DIETETIC AND MEDICAL TEXTS

-- Several dietetic texts comment on the nutritional value of dates,

e.g. Anthimus, Aldobrandino of Siena, Andrew Boorde, the Gro=DFsch=FCtzener

Gesundheitslehre ...

-- Dates are mentioned for medical purposes e.g. in the writings of

Alexander Seitz, 16th c., and in Saladin of Asculo; 15th c.

-- Dioscurides, in his chapter on the thebaic Date, states that wine is

made from these dates, having the same medicinal forces like the date.

In book 5, chap. 40, there is a special chapter on date wine and its

medicinal properties. [On Cindy's site you find a link to a German

translation online.]

There are collections where a date is only mentioned on one minor

occasion, there are others where dates are mentioned frequently.

Th.

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:52:30 -0700

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period sweets

>...I shall be IN persona.. a woman of 10th century Al-Andalus... what would

>be the proper sweetmeats that I would make and offer to my 'guests'...

>Islamic Empire - 10th century..

>'bella / Aine

Here are two 13th century Muslim recipes:

They're from the book "In A Caliph's Kitchen" by David Waines. His

worked out recipes don't always follow the originals, but for the

sweets they are pretty close. It is long out of print and i searched

for nearly 2 years for a used copy before i gave up and got it via

Inter-Library Loan.

I've included the Original (as published in "In a Caliph's Kitchen")

and David Waine's version, along with my notes and one of Lord

Cariadoc's redactions. I've never made these myself because i don't

like sweets much.

-----------------------------------

<snip of Khushknanaj recipe - See desserts-msg?

Rutab mu'assal

"Honeyed Dates" (literally)

13th c. recipe - source not specified

ORIGINAL

Take freshly gathered dates and lay in the shade and air for a day.

Then remove the stones and stuff with peeled almonds. For every 10

ratls of dates take 2 ratls of honey. Boil over the fire with two

uqiya of rose water and half a dirham of saffron, then throw in the

dates, stirring for an hour. Remove and allow to cool. When cold,

sprinkle with fine-ground sugar scented with musk, camphor,and

hyacinth. Put into glass preserving jars, sprinkling on top some of

the scented ground sugar. Cover until the weather is cold and chafing

dishes are brought in. [my note: might "chafing dishes" be "braziers"

used to warm the house?]

David Waines' version:

1 lb. fresh dates

2 Tb. honey

4 oz. blanched almonds

3 Tb. rosewater

big pinch saffron

2 Tb. castor sugar (extra fine granulated sugar)

2 Tb. ground cinnamon [i think that's a bit much!]

1.) Carefully slit each date down one side and remove the pit.

2.) Into each date place one blanched almond, then squeeze closed.

3.) Mix together rosewater, honey, and saffron in a small saucepan.

Bring to a boil and simmer 3 minutes. Remove and allow to cool

slightly.

4.) Add dates to syrup, spooning it over the dates so each is

thoroughly coated. Leave them in the syrup for a couple of hours.

5.) Remove dates and roll each one in caster sugar mixed with cinnamon.

-----

My notes:

I have never made this. That said... (1) i've seen some dates that

were a bit hard. If you end up with these, you can simmer them in

water to cover until they're tender, probably a few minutes. Drain

and cool before proceeding. (2) Also, you can sometimes find pitted

dates, which could save a bit of work. (3) you might want to put more

than one almond in a date, depending on the size of the almonds and

of the dates. (almonds in Morocco were rather small, but they were

incredibly flavorful.)

Well, that's it for these two recipes... There some others, but these

sounded not bad to me and like they might work for your schtick.

Anahita

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:38:24 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apician date recipe

"Mark.S Harris" wrote:

> Adamantius said:

> > And then there's that Apician recipe that calls for frying dates in

> > honey. Which, when you consider its boiling point, isn't all that

> > outlandish, if a bit dangerous.

> Could someone please post this recipe and a redaction if there is

> one? My recently started dates-msg file is still small and this

> sounds like a good addition.

Apicius Book VII, chapter xiii, recipe i:

DULCIA DOMESTICA: palmulas vel dactylos excepto semine, nuce vel nucleis

vel pipere trito infercies. sale foris contingis, frigis in melle

cocto, et inferes.

Flower and Rosenbaum's translation:

VII, xiii, i. HOME-MADE SWEET. Stone dates, and stuff with nuts,

pine-kernels, or ground pepper. Roll in salt, fry in cooked honey, and serve.

The honey may be cooked for stabilization purposes: boiling honey can

foam alarmingly; maybe they cooked it in a big pot to prevent it from

bubbling over in the frying pan later. I'm only speculating, though.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:19:50 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apician date recipe

Philip & Susan Troy wrote:

>Sue Clemenger wrote:

>> Hmmm....I wonder why they rolled them in salt? How would that affect the

>> frying? Would it do anything to the temp of the honey, or the way the

>> honey would adhere to the dates?

>> --maire

>I wonder if perhaps they're talking about fresh dates, rather than dried

>ones. Salting them might help keep things from splattering.

>Adamantius

I don't know...I do know that one I plan to use at an event this weekend, an

Arabic version of a similar thing, calls for the dates to be boiled in the

honey. However, it states that you take the fresh dates and allow them to dry

for two weeks:

Take fresh ripe dates freshly harvested for immersion and spread the out in

the shade and air for two days. Then remove their pits from the bottom, using

a packing needle or sharpened stick, and put excellent peeled sweet almonds in

place of all the pits. For every ten pounds, take two pounds of honey and

thin it with two ounces of rosewater. Put it up on the fire, and when it

boils, remove its scum. Then colour it with half a dirham of saffron and

throw the dates in it. And when it boils, stir them nicely, lightly, so that

they absorb the honey. Then take them down from the fire and spread them out

in a tray of briar wood. When they have cooled off, sprinkle them with spiced

finely pounded sugar. If you want them to be heating, it is with musk,

spikenard and a bit of [hot] spices [afawih]. If you want them to be cooling,

spice them with camphor and a little poppy seed. Put them up in glass vessels

and only use them during the chilly season and when fresh date season is over.

-- Kitab Wasf al-At=92ima al-Mu=92tada (The Description of Familiar Foods) trans. Charles Perry.

This is from Medieval Arab Cookery, ed. Charles Perry et al.

When I read this, I was struck by the similarities to the Dates Alexandrine

from Apicius. The main difference is in the seasonings. I haven't actually

redacted it yet, but will send that, along with the other things I'm thinking

of doing early next week.

Kiri

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:31:26 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apician date recipe

"Mark.S Harris" wrote:

> Wouldn't the use of fresh dates compared to dried ones have a major

> effect upon the results of this recipe?

Uh huh.

> Where was Apicius writing his book? Were date palms grown in southern

> Europe? Perhaps some more less direct information will tell us whether

> the dates are fresh or dried. Would dates still be "fresh" after being

> transported from the Middle East or Africa to Europe?

I'm not sure, but fresh dates aren't hugely moist (vaguely apple-like),

and Apicius does mention various methods of preserving fruit, such as,

IIRC, packing it in bran or honey, for example. And then there's the

fact that Cato's original "Carthage must be destroyed" speech before the

Roman Senate was accompanied by the display of a fresh fig from

Carthage, which had crossed the Mediterranean in four days, IIRC. Cato's

point was that there was, for practical purposes, a hostile (to Rome, in

theory) superpower only four days away by ship.

> If these were meant to be fresh, I doubt I can find fresh dates. Would

> rehydrating the dried dates by boiling them in water approximate fresh

> dates?

Probably not. But then, I have no idea whether feresh dates are what the

recipe's author had in mind. I just mentioned the possibility.

> Then again, they may have rolled them in salt simply because they liked

> the taste.

Quite possibly. Sometimes I ask questions to get others to think about

things, but most of the time it's because I just plain don't know.

Adamantius

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Apician date recipe

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:33:11 -0500

> Where was Apicius writing his book?

Rome, 1st Century CE (14-37)

> Were date palms grown in southern

> Europe? Perhaps some more less direct information will tell us whether

> the dates are fresh or dried. Would dates still be "fresh" after being

> transported from the Middle East or Africa to Europe?

Dates were grown in North Africa and Arabia, which were both part of the

Roman Empire at this point.

Dates do not dry quickly, so the ones in the Roman markets might be fresh.

> If these were meant to be fresh, I doubt I can find fresh dates. Would

> rehydrating the dried dates by boiling them in water approximate fresh

> dates?

> Stefan li Rous

There are a number of varieties of dates which tend to fall into three

categories. "Soft dates" have soft flesh, high moisture and low sugar

content. "Semi-dry dates" have a firmer flesh, lower moisture and higher

sugar content. "Dry dates" have a hard flesh, low moisture and high sugar

content.

Dates loose moisture slowly. If they are truly "dried dates" rather than

"dry dates," you will probably find sugar crystals under the skin. High

sugar dates often form a coat of sugar on the outer skin as they lose

moisture.

Steaming the dates for about 10 minutes (as opposed to boiling them, which

extracts sugar) will help to re-hydrated dried dates.

Bear

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period date info?

From: Kirrily Robert <skud at infotrope.net>

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:34:51 -0400

Stefan wrote:

>Anyone have any period recipes using dates?

I've got one from the English Huswife, 1615:

To make Date-Leach.

To make an excellent Date-Leach, take Dates, and take out the stones,

and the white rind, and beat them with Sugar, Cinamon and Ginger, very

finely; then work it as you would work a piece of paste, and then print

them as you please.

NOTE: THIS DID NOT WORK FOR ME! Some have suggested that it may have

worked OK with fresh dates, but I've never seen a fresh date and used

dried ones. It totally gummed up my food processor and I couldn't get

it to be dry enough to mould.

Dates are also often used in Elizabethan meat dishes, especially with

capon. Here are a couple from "The Good Huswife's Jewell" (1594),

which I've just started to transcribe:

To boile a capon

Put the Capon into the pouder beefe pot, and when you think it almost

tender, take a little potte and put therein halfe water and halfe wine,

marie, currants, dates, whole mace, vergice, pepper, & a little wine.

The boyling of a capon

Seeth the Capon itselfe in water and salt and nothing else, and to make

the broth Viz. Take strong broth made with beefe or mutton broth, so

that it be strong broth, and put into it, rosemarie, parselie & time,

with iiii leaves of sage, this let seeth in it a good while, and then

put into it small raysons and a few whole mace. A quarter of an houre

before it be readie to bee taken from the fire, have readie sodden foure

or v. egges boyled harde, take nothing out but the yolks streyne the

egges with a little of the same broth and vergice, have a little marie

cut in small peeces and an apple pared, and cutte in small peeces, and

if that time of yeare do serve, take the best of lettice, cutting off

the toppes to the white and best, and take a fewe prunes with

two or three dates.

Thus let it seeth a quarter of an hour or more, and when it is ready to

take up, have your dish with soppes readie, and the water well strained

out of the capon, and then season the broth with a little pepper, then

take it and dish it and scrape upon it a little suger laying the prunes

round about the dish side.

To boile a capon in white broth with almonds

Take your Capon with marie bones and set them on the fire, and when they

be cleane skummed take the fattest of the broth, and put it in a little

pot with a good deale of marie, prunes, raisons, dates whole maces, & a

pinte of white wine, then blanch your almondes and strain them, with

them thicken your potte & let it seeth a goodwhile and when it is enough

serve it uppon soppes with your capon.

NOTE: I made the last of these last weeked and a camping event, and it

was really good :)

And here's a similar one, "To boil a capon with orenges and lemmons" from

"The Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchen" (1594), on someone else's

website: http://www.bitwise.net/~ken-bill/medrcp03.htm

Lady Katherine Robillard (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert)

katherine at infotrope.net http://infotrope.net/sca/

Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere

From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>

To: "SCA-Cooks (E-mail)" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:34:02 +0100

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Date question

Saluti!

I've made this:

Leche Lumbard or Date Roll in Spiced Wine

Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books Harleian Mss 4016

Which is one of those irritating try and try and try again recipes that

takes you years to get right!

See my cooking page (URL below) under Lammas 1998 Menu & Testcooking for

details.

Ciao

Lucrezia

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin

Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK

mailto:thorngrove at yahoo.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:12:58 -0800

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pt. 2 - Medieval Persian Iron Chef

Here are the recipes three dishes that were served on one tray:

Bustaniyya - Orchard Dish - spiced chicken and lamb with pears,

peaches, and almonds

Saffron Rice

Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates, stuffed with almonds

Anahita

---------------------

Bustaniya - Orchard Dish

Spiced Chicken and Lamb with Pears, Peaches, and Almonds

---------------------

Arruz al-Zafran - Saffron Rice

---------------------

Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates stuffed with almonds, scented with rosewater

Original:

Take fresh-gathered dates, and lay in the shade and air for a day:

then remove the stones, and stuff with peeled almonds. For every ten

ratls of dates, take two ratls of honey: boil over the fire with two

uqiya of rose-water and half a dirham of saffron, then throw in the

dates, stirring for an hour. Remove, and allow to cool. When cold,

sprinkle with fine-ground sugar scented with musk,camphor and

hyacinth. Put into glass preserving-jars, sprinkling on top with some

of the scented ground-sugar. Cover, until the weather is cold and

chafing dishes are brought in.

("A Baghdad Cookery Book", trans. A.J. Arberry, notes by Charles

Perry, p. 88, "Medieval Arab Cookery", and p. 39, "In a Caliph's

Kitchen" by David Waines)

My Work-Up:

100 pitted Deglett-Noor dates

200 blanched peeled whole almonds

1-1/2 cups honey

1 capful rose water, Cortas brand

1. Put almonds into dates, one at a time - some dates won't hold 2

almonds. Also, check for pits - dates are mechanically pitted and the

machine could miss something and you don't want to break any of your

diner's teeth.

2. When all dates are filled, warm up honey in a saucepan on medium

heat. You just want it to be smoothly flowing.

3. When honey is warm, stir rosewater into it.

4. Then put dates into pan of honey on the stove. There should be

just barely enough to cover the dates. DO NOT STIR.

5. When honey just gets bubbly around the edges, remove from heat and

let cool. DO NOT STIR. I assume the type of dates they were using

were somewhat hard. Most of our dates are pretty soft and stirring

them after they've cooked in the honey will break them up or even

dissolve them.

6. When cool, carefully remove dates one at a time to decorate

serving dishes as desired.

NOTE: Although I find even dates NOT cooked in honey to be cloyingly

sweet, they were a big hit. People came from the dining room to pick

them off the trays after my course had been removed.

---------------------

These were served thus:

On ten round flat serving trays, a ring of rice was made around the

outside. The meat was mounded in the middle. And 10 dates were placed

evenly around the outer edge of the rice, the spaces between them

filled with garbanzo beans.

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:18:32 -0400

From: Ariane H <phoenissa at netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seasonal Produce

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I found fresh Dates and fresh white currants. I thought both of these

> things were very interesting and was ondering if anyone had period recipies

> that called for either or both.

> Serena da Riva

I've never heard of fresh dates being cooked before, in either modern or

historical contexts...they're excellent for eating on their own, but

every cooked date I've een was cooked from a dried state. Fresh dates

are sweet, but have a slightly astringent quality, if that's the word?

Your mouth feels a little dry after eating them, kind of the same thing

that happens with raw quince but much less pronounced. They're ummy,

though.

If you're willing to experiment, you could try doing something with the

fresh dates...maybe just simmer them with a bit of water and sugar and

see what happens?

As for currants...I've never seen white ones, but red ones are good raw,

and make fantastic jelly or jam, and have a myriad of uses when dried.

I don't know how white currants taste as opposed to red or black

(sweeter? more sour?), but I bet you could substitute them, fresh or

dried, in any recipe that calls for either of the more familiar

varieties.

In any case, sounds like a great find! Might be worth buying the fruits

just for eating on their own. I live across the street from a farmer's

market, which I love - but it's quite small and they don't have anything

nearly so exotic.

Vittoria

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:28:07 -0400

From: "Sharon Gordon" gordonse at one.net

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Seasonal Produce

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>I found fresh Dates and fresh white currants. I thought both of these things

>were very interesting and was wondering if anyone had period recipies that

>called for either or both.

***Currants

First, I should probably say I am assuming these are the gooseberry

Cousin and not the grape kind of currants that is often turned into tiny

raisins.

1) Eat fresh.

2) Make jam.

3)There is supposed to be a recipe for white currants in

Good Huswive’s Treasure (1588) and for red currants as well.

4) A modern british recipe for a summer pudding

http://groups.yahoo.com/roup/recipes_to_have/message/3620?source=1S

5) Halloween Illusion food

http://www.shavkin.com/newshallo1.html

6) And you could use recipes for black or red currants as long as you

took the color into account

7) Modern recipes for sauce, cake, chicken

htt://www.thecookietin.com/produce/currant.asp

8) If you use the SEARCH function at the top of

http://www.florilegium.org

you can turn up more references to currants in recipes

***Dates

1) If you do the search in the Florilegium for "fresh dates" you can

come up with lots of wonderful things as well.

2) You can dry them for a few days to two weeks or so and then use the

dried date recipes which will taste much better with the still creamy,

yet sweeter, freshly dried date.

3) Split them, remove seed, and suff with a cream cheese like cheese.

Sharon

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:21:42 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seasonal Produce

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I don't recall seeing fresh dates for sale. We ought to be able to

get them though, since there are major date growers here in

California.

There are a number of "period" recipes that call for fresh dates -

i'll have to look for them. The Conditum/Spiced Wine i made for the

Greco-Roman feast called for fresh dates (i used white grape juice

and verjus and it was very poplar - flavored with bay leaves, black

pepper, saffron, and mastic).

Anahita

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:03:26 -0800

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dates

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> I was the happy recipient of a box of dates brought back from Dubai

> by a co-worker. (It WAS a 2 pound box. I now have about a pound

> and a half left.) They are huge, moist and delicious. Not at all

> like the stale dried up things you get in boxes in the local

> supermarket. I would like to make something with them this weekend

> to bring into the office Monday to share the bounty. I've looked at

> recipes for standard date nut breads and variations on the theme,

> but I am searching for something slightly outside the norm. Do any

> of you have a recipe that the modern masses might enjoy, but is not

> the same old same old?

> Felicia

Hais

al-Baghdadi p. 214/14 (GOOD)

Take fine dry bread, or biscuit, and grind up well. Take a ratl of

this, and three quarters of a ratl of fresh or preserved dates with

the stones removed, together with three uqiya of ground almonds and

pistachios. Knead all together very well with the hands. Refine two

uqiya of sesame-oil, and pour over, working with the hand until it is

mixed in. Make into cabobs, and dust with fine-ground sugar. If

desired, instead of sesame-oil use butter. This is excellent for

travellers.

2 2/3 c bread crumbs 1/3 c ground pistachios

2 c (about one lb) pitted dates 7 T melted butter or sesame oil

1/3 c ground almonds enough sugar

We usually grind the nuts separately in a food processor, then mix

dates, bread crumbs, and nuts in the food processor, then stir in

melted butter or oil. Dates vary in hardness; if it does not hold

together, add a few tablespoons of water, one at a time. For

"cabobs," roll into one inch balls. Good as caravan food (or for

taking to wars). They last forever if you do not eat them, but you do

so they don't.

David/Cariadoc

www.daviddfriedman.com

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:08:18 -0800

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dates

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Stefan li Rous posted:

> From: lilinah at earthlink.net

> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:52:30 -0700

> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period sweets

SNIP

Notes in square brackets below were by me when i first posted this...

> Rutab mu'assal

> "Honeyed Dates" (literally)

> 13th c. recipe - source not specified

> ORIGINAL

> Take freshly gathered dates and lay in the shade and air for a day.

> Then remove the stones and stuff with peeled almonds. For every 10

> ratls of dates take 2 ratls of honey. Boil over the fire with two

> uqiya of rose water and half a dirham of saffron, then throw in the

> dates, stirring for an hour. Remove and allow to cool. When cold,

> sprinkle with fine-ground sugar scented with musk, camphor,and

> hyacinth. Put into glass preserving jars, sprinkling on top some of

> the scented ground sugar. Cover until the weather is cold and chafing

> dishes are brought in. [my note: might "chafing dishes" be "braziers"

> used to warm the house?]

Let me note here that "hyacinth" is an error that someone (Waines?)

made. It should say "spikenard". I think this error may have come

from Arberry, who i am not criticizing... he was a trailblazer - the

first to translate an Arabic language cookbook into English, and it's

only to be expected that there would be some errors.

I haven't yet made these with spikenard, though...

> David Waines' version:

> 1 lb. fresh dates

> 2 Tb. honey

> 4 oz. blanched almonds

> 3 Tb. rosewater

> big pinch saffron

> 2 Tb. castor sugar (extra fine granulated sugar)

> 2 Tb. ground cinnamon [i think that's a bit much!]

> 1.) Carefully slit each date down one side and remove the pit.

> 2.) Into each date place one blanched almond, then squeeze closed.

> 3.) Mix together rosewater, honey, and saffron in a small saucepan.

> Bring to a boil and simmer 3 minutes. Remove and allow to cool

> slightly.

> 4.) Add dates to syrup, spooning it over the dates so each is

> thoroughly coated. Leave them in the syrup for a couple of hours.

> 5.) Remove dates and roll each one in castor sugar mixed with

> cinnamon.

> -----

> My notes:

> I have never made this.

Well, in the time between then and now i've made these several times.

I actually think those boring dry Deglett Noor dates are best for

this recipe and i wouldn't waste Bahri dates or Medjool dates on this

- they're so good they deserve to be eaten unadorned.

I say this because after simmering the almond-stuffed dates, they

become very tender and moist. In fact, i never stir them while i'm

making them as they would fall apart, i just shake the pan. I do use

more honey than Waines suggests, since his quantity does not even

approach that called for in the original recipe, just enough to cover

the dates.

Also, when i've made this, i don't bother to coat them with the

castor sugar at the end because my teeth hurt just looking at them,

that is, they are sooooooo sweet already i hesitate to add more sugar.

And i've never had any complaints. People tend to gobble these down.

There are never any leftovers.

Since camphor isn't readily available (yes, i can get some, but it

takes some looking) and camphor is not good for one's liver, i have

not used it in my cooking (although i suspect that such a small

amount probably wouldn't harm people with no pre-existing liver

problems). I made an experiment when i cooked the Ottoman Investiture

Feast in November 2007. Since camphor gives a cooling sensation like

menthol, and is in the cinnamon family, i mixed peppermint extract

with powdered cinnamon and sprinkled an Ottoman sweet with it. Yes,

it doesn't really taste like cinnamon, but still it might be worth

the experiment here, too, although i have not yet tried it.

> Anahita

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:57:19 -0800

From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dates

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Felicia wrote:

> How should dates be stored? I have searched the web with as many

> different ways of phrasing "How should dates be stored" with no real

> luck. I keep getting references to storing data!

> I feel like if I put them in the refrigerator, they will get sticky

> from the humidity. However, leaving them in their box on the

> counter doesn't seem quite right either. They arrived in only a box

> with a piece of celophane folded over them.

Put 'em well covered (in a tightly sealed container) in a cool dark

place. They don't need to be refrigerated, and they will [not] survive out

on your counter. [('cuz they're likely to dry out and crystallize if left out)]

As for all the recipes you are receiving, I really think it's a waste

of good dates to mix them with all those other ingredients. I really

think these should be enjoyed as they are.

They will keep for a long long time. Sometimes some of the sugar in

them will crystallize on their surface, so if you see some white on

their skins, it's not likely to be mold, but just their own natural

sugar.

[Dates can be refrigerated, if *tightly* sealed. And one web page i visited even recommended freezing them, with the proper precautions, saying they could keep that way a for a year.

And if they do get sugary, they're still fine to eat, although they might better be cooked in recipes at that point. Info in brackets added 4/8/09 from another email from Urtatim. - Stefan]

As for period mamoul... there's no such thing... that is, there are

several recipes with different names that appear to make something

like mamoul, but they're not called mamoul. Most say to stuff with

chopped nuts mixed with sugar and rosewater, but that some people

prefer to use dates.

Anyway, here's a recipes for

Irnin - Date Squares

This is a modern recipe, but very close to a recipe in the 14th c.

Book of the Description of Familiar Foods

Makes 30 to 36 squares

FILLING

1/2 lb. dates, pitted and chopped (about 1-1/3 cups)

1/2 tsp. ground cinnamon

pinch of ground cloves

DOUGH

3-1/4 cups fine semolina

a pinch of salt

1-1/2 sticks salted butter, melted

3 TB. orange flower water

1/2 cup water

Prepare Filling:

Put dates in a saucepan with cinnamon and cloves and a few

tablespoons of water.

Cook on low heat, stirring and mashing with a wooden spoon until

puree-like.

Remove from pan and let cool, shaping into a ball.

Prepare Dough:

Put semolina in a large bowl and mix in salt.

Make a well in the middle of the semolina.

Pour in the melted butter, rubbing with your fingertips until all the

grains are coated with butter.

Add orange flower water and just enough water to bind the mixture.

Knead until smooth.

Preheat oven to 300 degrees F.

Make Cookies:

Butter a baking sheet or jelly roll pan.

Divide dough into 2 equal parts.

Take one half. Place it on greased baking sheet or jelly roll pan.

Flatten somewhat.

Place ball of dates on top and flatten somewhat, oiling your hand

helps keep you from sticking.

Flatten second half of dough somewhat, and place it on top of the

dates. Then flatten the whole thing evenly until you have a big, flat

"cake" about 1/2 inch thick.

Cut/mark 1 inch squares or lozenges - lozenges look nicer but may be

more difficult, so squares are fine.

Bake in preheated oven about 15 minutes or until done - could be

shorter, could be longer.

Check often. Pastry should NOT change color significantly.

Remove pan from oven.

Leaving pastry in pan, cut through bars and cool pan of pastries on

wire rack.

NOTE: If you like you could also add rosewater or orange flower water

to date paste

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:59:29 -0500

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question about dates and marzipan

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

In the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook (13th c.), there is a recipe for

a candy which can be shaped as the cook pleases. I won't quote the

whole recipe, because it isn't relevant, but the instructions contain

this line: "While it is still warm, give it the shape of dates stuffed

with almonds".

I would assume that means that people did indeed stuff almonds into

dates. Don't know about marzipan.

Brighid ni Chiarain

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:48:20 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question about dates and marzipan

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Jennifer Carlson wrote:

<<< Is there any textual evidence for almond- or marzipan-stuffed dates in period? I've run across a modern reference to them as a "traditional Scottish treat" (for what that's worth), but it got me to wondering.

Talana >>>

In Art, Culture, and Cuisine, Phyllis Pray Bober has a recipe for

Stuffed Dates in Honey. It appears in the classical section.

They appear in a number of Middle Eastern recipes.

The Book of Jewish Food: An Odyssey from Samarkand to New York

by Claudia Roden includes dates stuffed with almond paste, but it's not,

I think, credited as a medieval recipe.

Ivan Day at

http://www.historicfood.com/Trayne%20Roste%20Recipe.htm includes

a recipe for Trayne Roste and other Spit Cakes with pictures.

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:20:02 -0500

From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question about dates and marzipan

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There is a Roman recipe (Apicius) for Dates Alexandrine...blanched almonds

rolled in cinnamon, stuffed into dates, then coated with honey and allowed

to dry. Also, there is a recipe for stuffed dates in the "Description of

Familiar Foods" as translated by Charles Perry:

Rutab Mu'assal

25 pitted Deglett-Noor dates

25 blanched peeled whole almonds

3/8 cup honey

1/4 capful rose water, Cortas brand - or more to taste

saffron

sugar, finely minced

cinnamon

1/4 long pepper

1. Put 2 almonds into each date, one at a time. Some dates won't hold 2

almonds. Also, check for pits - dates are mechanically pitted and the

machine could miss something and you don't want to break any of your

diner's teeth. Since dates are dry, do this over several days. No rush.

2. When all dates are filled, warm up honey in a saucepan on medium heat

until it flows smoothly.

3. When honey is warm, stir rosewater into it.

4. Then put dates into the pan of honey on the stove. There should be just

barely enough to cover the dates on medium-low heat. DO NOT STIR.

5. When honey just gets bubbly around the edges, remove from heat and let

cool. DO NOT STIR. I assume the dates they used were somewhat hard. Most

of our dates are pretty soft and stirring them after they've cooked in the

honey will break them up or even dissolve them.

6. Once they cool, roll them in a sugar/cinnamon/pepper(?) mixture.

Original Recipe: Take fresh ripe dates freshly harvested for immersion and

spread them out in the shade and air for two days. Then remove their pits

from the bottom, using a packing needle or sharpened stick, and put

excellent peeled sweet almonds in place of all of the pits. For every ten

pounds, take two pounds of honey and thin it with two ounces of rosewater.

Put it up on the fire and when it boils, remove its scum. then colour it

with half a dirham of saffron and throw the dates in it. And when it boils,

stir them nicely, lightly, so that they absorb the honey. Then take them

down form the fire and spread them out in a tray of briarwood. When they

have cooled off, sprinkle them with spiced, finely ground sugar. If you

want them to be heating, it is with musk, spikenard and a bit of [hot]

spices [afawih]. If you want them to be cooling, spice them with camphor

and a little poppy seed. Put them up in glass vessels and only use them

during the chilly season and when fresh date season is over.

--The Description of

Familiar Foods (Kitab Wasf al-At'ima al-Mu'tada) trans. Charles Perry

Kiri

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:45:45 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dates stuffed with marzipan

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Thanks for the source. I suspect that it's not all that old. Did some

looking. It's not in

Meg Dod's which dates to 1829. Also checked Mrs. McLintock which is 1736.

Didn't find them in Cleland which is 1755. Most of my Scots cookery

books are boxed but I went through what I have available and didn't find them listed.

I had a bit more time tonight so I searched ECCO which is the 18th century database (Scotland's printed culinary texts start in the 18th century)-- nothing.

EEBO-TCP turned up some interesting material. Dates do appear in English texts

of course. It was suggested that they wouldn't be found in recipes because they weren't being grown in Scotland. They were imported into England at least prior to 1600. They show up in The castel of helth gathered and made by Syr Thomas Elyot knyghte which dates to 1539.

The Secrets of Alessio has them being used in various waters. That's 1558.

Partridge also includes them also in a water.

Dawson mentions dates in confects but doesn't include a recipe. They are

listed at least twice in a list of dishes.

Wooley includes dates and blanched almonds in a pudding in The Cooks

Guide as did Dawson 75 years earlier.

The title London in its splendor consisting of triumphant pageants in

1673 mentions a pageant that offers

"betwixt two Silver Panyers that are fraught with several sorts of

Fruits, as Raysons, Almonds, Figs, Dates, Prunes, and other variety of

Grocery Wares..."

but this isn't a mention of stuffed dates.

Johnnae

Jennifer Carlson wrote:

snipped I found myself with an extra chub of marizpan, and a package of dates. So, I wondered if the two might have married in period, and went hunting for recipes, and hit the aforementioned website of "traditional Scottish recipes." The website, www.rampantscotland.com, made no claim that the stuffed dates were medieval - just traditional, which as we all know is a commercial term of such fluid meaning as to mean nothing.

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:46:12 -0500

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dates stuffed with marzipan

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:45 PM -0500 Johnna Holloway

<johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

Thanks for the source. I suspect that it's not all that old. Did some

looking. It's not in

Meg Dod's which dates to 1829. Also checked Mrs. McLintock which is 1736.

Didn't find them in Cleland which is 1755. Most of my Scots cookery books

are boxed but I went through what I have available and didn't find them listed.

I had a bit more time tonight so I searched ECCO which is the 18th century database (Scotland's printed culinary texts start in the 18th century)-- nothing.

Johnnae

----------

Dates are imported into Scotland as well -- s.v. Date from the Dictionary

of the Old Scots Tongue has:

Ane barell of daittis; 1490 Acta Conc. 158/1. xij li. deytes; 1503 Halyb.

271. iij li. daitis; 1504 Ib. 272.

(Acta Conc is "The Acts of the Lords of Council in Civil Causes. (Acta

Dominorum Concilii.) ")

Halyb is "Halyb. [1492-] Ledger of Andrew Halyburton, Conservator of the

Privileges of the Scotch Nation in the Netherlands, 1492-1503; together

with the book of customs and valuation of merchandises in Scotland 1612"

toodles, margaret

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:36:44 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a Roman sweet

Raffaella wrote:

<<< Some of my friends are putting together a Roman feast and they are

looking for one more recipe to round out the menu. They've already

got some savory biscuit/ cookies, but they are looking for small

sweet that could preferably be made in advance as well. >>>

Anne-Marie replied:

<<< Raffaella, do you have the Roman banquet Feudal GOurmet pamphlet?

theres some really nice desserts in there, including a honeyed date

thing that is to die for... >>>

I don't have the Roman Feudal Gourmet. But i suspect the date

suggestion is probably for Dulcia Domestica:

DULCIA DOMESTICA

palmulas uel dactylos excepto semine, nuce uel nucleis uel pipere

trito infercies. sale foris contingis, frigis in melle cocto, et

inferes.

Home-made Sweet

Fresh or dried dates seeds taken out, stuff with walnuts or pine nuts

or ground pepper. Roll in salt, fry in cooked honey, and serve.

Here is how I interpret the procedure:

Fill each pitted date with a walnut half or a couple pine nuts or a

little ground pepper... I'd suggest trying some with one kind of nuts

and a little pepper. Pepper was a huge luxury to the Romans.

Sprinkle dates with a little salt, or roll them in salt, depending on

how much. Might be good with one of those regional specialty salts.

Heat a relatively shallow layer of honey in a heavy pan until it

boils, then turn heat down.

Add dates in a single layer and cook in honey on low heat for about 5

to 10 minutes. I haven't made this recipe, but in my experiences,

cooking dates in honey for too long, well, the dates start to

dissolve...

Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:47:22 -0600 (CST)

From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Payn puff

One thing I've found when using minced dates is either you need to dust

them with some of the dry ingredients, or mix them with the wet

ingredients first.

Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010, Alexander Clark wrote:

<<< After the first test, I've concluded that minced medjool dates are hard to mix into the filling (they like to stick to each other),...

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark >>>