cherries-msg – 12/6/11 Period cherries and cherry dishes. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: apples-msg, fruit-quinces-msg. sugar-msg, vegetables-msg, melons-msg, nuts-msg, pomegranates-msg, fruits-msg, pies-msg, fruit-pies-msg, wines-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:22:57 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - cherries Mark Harris wrote: > Is this Russian Cherry Soup period? Sounds like it probably isn't. Could > you please post this recipe anyway? Or send to me by email? It sounds > interesting. I suspect that it probably is period, or derived from some earlier version that is. An earlier version of the "Syrosye" recipe calls for the inclusion of "vlehs gret", or great flesh, which is probably chunks or slices of a large joint cooked (or partly cooked) whole and separately, either by boiling or roasting. The thickening of bread crumbs suggests it is quite early, too. Actually the Russian Cherry Soup sounds like borscht made with cherries. (Doesn't borscht just mean soup anyway? But you know what I mean.) > I've only occasionaaly found fresh cherries in the grocery and they were > probably the sweet kind. Anyone know how/where to get these sour cherries? They can be bought at Middle Eastern, Eastern European (and Russian ; ) ) markets. Usually packed in jars of sour cherry juice. Sometimes pitted, sometimes not. > What kind(s) of cherries were known in medieval europe? I believe Montmorenceys are period. They were brought to the New World early on. Bing cherries, probably the most common American variety, are quite late indeed (like late 19th, early 20th century). Other than that I don't know. Adamantius Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:03:23 -0500 (CDT) From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Subject: Re: SC - cherries It is unfortunate that down here in Ansteorra you can only get Bing Cherries fresh for the most part and for a very limited time. The weather doesn't like them down here. You can sometimes get Ranier which are a yellow cherry with a red blush. They are sweet as well. Occaisionally you can cans of sour cherries in larger grocery store (HEB and Central Market (Austin) ). It pays to buy amounts of uncommon foods to encourage the expansion of the gene pool and more variety. Apples down here in Ansteorra are starting to get really diverse, as well as oranges. We can get Seville oranges when they are in season now as well as blood oranges. Clare St. John Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:50:29 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries lwperkins wrote: > Aislinn wrote regarding dried cherries.... > "I have been making them as > > Pennsic snack food since cherries have been on sale frequently this > year"... > And I have to ask: how do you dry cherries so they don't mold first? Low > oven?..... A low oven will do it if it's low enough: ideally it needs to be set for 150-175 degrees F. Other options include a food dehydrator, and Mr. Golden Sun, in appropriate weather/humidity. You can make a wooden frame and stretch window screen stuff (the nylon stuff is good because it's non-reactive) over it. It's also a good idea to pit them, if you want to, AFTER drying. The idea is that the juice remains in the cherry while drying, and the extra sugar and flavor aren't lost. Adamantius Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:49:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries A low oven will do it if it's low enough: ideally it needs to be set for 150-175 degrees F. Other options include a food dehydrator, and Mr. Golden Sun, in appropriate weather/humidity. You can make a wooden frame and stretch window screen stuff (the nylon stuff is good because it's non-reactive) over it. Home made food dehyrdators were all the rage around here a few years ago, before the commercial ones became available. To handwave the design, make a square or rectangular vertical plywood box, with a lid, but with gaps at the top and bottom, and with a door in the front, and pull out grates or screens. Underneath it all, add a drip tray, a 100 watt bulb, and place some foil over the bulb to keep the food off it. Gaps at the top and bottom allow warm air to rise, and drive the moisture off. Tibor Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 11:16:00 -0500 From: "Suzanne Berry" Subject: Re: SC - Dried Cherries >It's also a good idea to pit them, if you want to, AFTER drying. The >idea is that the juice remains in the cherry while drying, and the extra >sugar and flavor aren't lost. >Adamantius I don't mean to contradict an expert, but my directions call for (and I've had good luck with) pitting them when they're half-dry. You simply squeeze them a bit, and the pits pop right out. - Aislinn Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:47:38 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - dried sour cherries Mark Harris wrote: > I too, noticed these small bags of cherries in the grocery this last Sunday. > They were in fact, labeled "tart" cherries. And yes, they were rather > expensive although since they were dried they might go further once > rehydrated. It takes about 4 pounds of fresh cherries to make one pound of dried, so, for each pound of dried cherries you buy, you are paying for 4 pounds (or so) of cherries, plus the cost of drying them. I believe I get them for around $4 a pound, IIRC. Adamantius Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Bloch Subject: Re: SC - Re: A couple questions . . .. > 3) What about subsitutions? I am in the midst of gathering recipes for a > killer menu for Crown Tourney this next weekend, and I was thinking about > the "Strawberye" but using cherries and Kirschwasser instead ('coz I have > cherries) I can't speak for the Kirschwasser, but there are surviving recipes for cherries. In fact, the "Strawberye" recipe you're thinking of, presumably the one from Harleian ms. 279, is followed IMMEDIATELY in the manuscript by one for cherries. So rather than adapting "Strawberye" to cherries myself, I would use the 15th-century recipe whose author thought it was similar enough to put them on the same page. Strawberye: Take Strawberys, & waysshe hem in tyme of 3ere in gode red wyne; [th]an strayne [th]orwe a clo[th]e, & do hem in a potte with gode Almaunde mylke, a-lay it with Amyndoun o[th]er with [th]e flowre of Rys, & make it chargeaunt and lat it boyle, and do [th]er-in Roysonys of coraunce, Safroun, Pepir, Sugre grete plente, pouder Gyngere, Canel, Galyngale; poynte it with Vynegre, & a lytil whyte grece put [th]er-to; coloure it with Alkenade, & droppe it a-bowte, plante it with [th]e graynys of Pome-garnad, & [th]an serue it forth. Chyryoun: Take Chyryis, & pike out [th]e stonys, waysshe hem clene in wyne, [th]an wryng hem [th]orw a clo[th]e, & do it on a potte, & do [th]er-to whyte grece a quantyte, & a partye of Floure of Rys, & make it chargeaunt; do [th]er-to hwyte Hony or Sugre, poynte it with Venegre; A-force it with stronge pouder of Canelle & of Galyngale, & a-lye it with a grete porcyoun of 3olkys of Eyroun; coloure it with Safroun or Saunderys; & whan [th]ou seruyste in, plante it with Chyrioun, & serue f[orth]. Notice the following differences: 1) the cherry recipe doesn't call for almond milk, currants, pepper, or ginger; maybe the author and/or his patron felt that these flavors went well with strawberries but not with cherries. 2) the cherry recipe, after being thickened with rice flour, is further thickened with "a grete porcyoun" of eggyolks. I don't know why the author chose to do this with cherries and not with strawberries, but lacking evidence to the contrary, I'd follow his lead. 3) the strawberry recipe is colored purple with alkenade, while the cherry recipe is colored yellow with saffron or red with sandalwood. 4) the strawberry recipe is garnished with pomegranate seeds, the cherry recipe with whole cherries. I would start by following the cherry recipe as closely as possible, using a known-tasty redaction of "Strawberye" to get a first approximation of the quantities. If I had time (which you don't between now and next weekend), I would experiment with each of the above differences and try to figure out why they are there. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:43:27 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - RE: Cherry soup? Or cherry pudding? "Peters, Rise J." wrote: > So... do you have a recipe you're willing to share? Since you say "always > made" it, I'm assuming it turned out well enough that you were willing to > eat it more than once. Courtesy of East Kingdom 12th Night, A.S. XXXI... Syrosye “To make a syrosye. Tak cheryes & do out *e stones & grynde hem wel & draw hem *orw a streynoure & do it in a pot. & do *erto whit gres or swete botere & myed wastel bred, & cast *erto good wyn & sugre, & salte it & stere it wel togedere, & dresse it in disches; & set *eryn clowe gilofre, & strew sugre aboue.” Curye On Inglysch, Book III, Utilis Coquinario, Ed. Constance B. Hieatt & Sharon Butler, Oxford University Press, Oxford 1985 In other words... To make some cherries. Take cherries, pit them, pureé them, and put them in a pot. Add lard or sweet butter and some white bread crumbs, and add some good wine and sugar. Salt it and stir well, serve it in dishes, and garnish with cloves and sugar. I’m assuming some actual cooking takes place here, if only to melt the lard or butter. Bread crumbs are a matter of taste. I opted for a rather thin soup, but the actual dish was probably a bit thicker. Some people use enormous quantities of bread crumbs to get a pudding-like “standing pottage”, but the recipe doesn’t call for that, and it’s nasty, to boot. I suspect the cloves are intended to be left whole, rather than ground, since powder of cloves is a known, standard, 14th century ingredient which could have easily been specified if intended. We used powdered cloves, to avoid expensive dental accidents in dim feast halls. As for sugar, it was probably sprinkled lavishly on top partly for the look, which probably means there was a bit less in total than if it had been simply mixed in. For eight servings: 2 quarts pitted morello cherries in juice (If jars are less than a quart, add bottled or canned cherry juice to compensate) 1/2 - 3/4 cup unseasoned white bread crumbs, preferably fresh 1/4 - 1/2 cup sugar (granulated light brown is ideal, but white is O.K.) 1/2 cup red wine 3 Tbs butter 1/2 - 1 tsp powdered cloves Salt Puree the cherries in a food mill or processor. Put everything but the butter, the cloves and the salt into a pot and bring to a boil, whipping to break up any breadcrumb lumps. Add cloves to taste. Cut cold butter into small pieces and drop them into the simmering liquid, one at a a time, whipping constantly until each is melted and incorporated, before adding the next (otherwise you’ll have a layer of grease floating on top). Salt to taste and serve. Adamantius Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:46:14 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Syllabub - does anyone have a period recipe? Glenda Robinson wrote: > There's a lovely recipe in Pleyn Delit - Strawberry Pudding. This can use > frozen strawberries. That would be the fresee recipe I spoke of, which I believe PD has as a variant on syrosye, which they refer to as a cherry pudding. I don't entirely buy the idea that this is supposed to be a chargeaunt or stondyng dish, so I use fewer breadcrumbs than Hieatt, Butler and Jones recommend, and serve it warm as a medium-thick pottage. Adamantius Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:24:01 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - cherries Pink Sunshine wrote: > Can anyone tell me if cherries are period? Yes, they are. Off the top of my head, and even before the morning caffeine, I can think of recipes in medieval English, German, and Italian sources, as well as references in the period Mediterranean medical texts known collectively as Tacuina Sanitatis. The Romans ate them too, if I remember correctly. Adamantius Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 06:34:01 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - cherries Pink Sunshine wrote: > I'd really like some meat and cherry recipes. >From BL MS Add. 46919 (He), published in "Curye On Inglysch" as _Diuersa Cibaria_ . "14. Scirresez. Milke of alemauns i(th)ikked wy(th) amydoun, chiseberien igrounden wi(th)outen (th)e stones, a pertie of sucre so (th)at hit beo wel isauored of cheseberien, vlehs gret, & cheseberien istreed abouen; (th)e colour is red." OR ~ 14. Cherries. Milk of almonds thickened with wheat starch, ground pitted cherries, some sugar to bring out the flavor of the cherries, flesh great (i.e. slices or chunks in serving size of roast or boiled meat: maybe lamb or mutton or boiled fresh ham), & garnished with cherries on top. The color is red. Very rough quantities might be (I'm guessing here): 1 1/2 - 2 cups almond milk made from a pint of boiling water and 1/2 cup ground, blanched almonds whizzed up in the blender and strained 1 1/2 Tbs wheat starch, dissolved in a little water or cherry juice 1 to 1 1/2 pounds cherries, weighed after pitting 3-4 Tbs sugar or to taste (sparingly!) 2 lbs hunk-o-meat, roast or boiled, cut in small medallion-sized slices or cubed optional red coloring agent of your choice: maybe red sandalwood if necessary salt to taste Puree about 3/4 of your cherries using a mortar, food mill, food processor or blender. Watch out for pits if using a power tool to avoid getting cherries on the ceiling. (Yes, I speak from experience.) Reserve the rest of the cherries as a garnish. Combine the pureed cherries with the wheat starch slurry and most of the almond milk in a saucepan and bring to a boil, stirring frequently. Simmer briefly until thickened. Skim off any foam that may arise. Adjust the thickness by cooking it down a bit if too thin, or by thinning with the last of the almond milk if too thick. You want the sauce to coat the meat but not stand up on its own. Add sugar and salt to taste (I believe in adding salt to almost everything -- just don't overdo it.) If your meat is hot, arrange in a deep serving dish and pour the sauce over. If cold, you can reheat the meat (especially if cubed) in the sauce and pour it all in the serving dish. Garnish with the remaining pitted cherries. Adamantius Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:36:10 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Mackerel "Decker, Margaret" wrote: >>I'm looking for period receipts using cherries, ... I got a really wonderful chicken pie out of Platina that uses cherries...I've had nothing but rave responses to it. The recipe? Here you go: CRUSTA EX CICURIBUS Another Crust with Tame Creatures From De honesta voluptate, by Platina: If you want to put pigeons and any other birds in a crust, first let them boil; when they are almost cooked, take them out of the pot, then cut them into nice pieces and fry them in a pan with a goodly amount of lard. Next put them in a deep dish or an earthen pot that has been well greased, and where a crust has been rolled out on the bottom. To this dish you may add plums and cherries or sour fruit without going wrong. Then take verjuice and eight eggs, more or less depending on the number of guests, if there are a few, with a little juice, beaten with a spoon; to this add parsley, majoram and finely cut mint, which can be blended after being cut up, and put this all near the fire, but far from the flame. It must be a slow heat so that it does not boil over. All the while, it should be stirred with a spoon until it sticks to the spoon because of its thickness. Finally pour this sauce into the pastry crust and put it near the fire and when it seems to have cooked enough, serve it to your guests. It is very nourishing and slow to be digested. It has few harmful effects, checks the bile and irritates the body. Redaction by Minowara Kiritsubo 2 lb. Chicken Pastry for a single crust 1 cup plums and/or cherries (if dried, soak in white wine until soft) 1/2 cup white wine 6 tsp. White wine vinegar 8 eggs 1 1/4 tsp. each of marjoram, mint and parsley 1/4 tsp. salt 1 pt. chicken stock 1/2 cup chicken stock 1. Boil chicken pieces in 1 pt. of stock until almost cooked. Bone the chicken pieces and brown in a little olive oil. 2. Line a deep dish pie tin with pastry, then fill with chicken and fruit. 3. Pour the sauce over the pie. Bake at 350 degrees until browned on top. Sauce: 1. Blend eggs, wine, vinegar and ? cup of the chicken broth together. 2. Add finely minced parsley, marjoram and mint. 3. Cook over a low heat, stirring constantly, until thickened so that it clings to the spoon. Notes: 1. I used a mixture of white wine vinegar cut with a little white wine to approximate the verjuice that the original recipe calls for. 2. I used sour cherries for the fruit, which produced a good balance with the flavor of the chicken. Kiri Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:02:50 -0400 From: Angie Malone Subject: SC - RE:cherries There is a recipe in Pleyn Delit for cherry pudding it is wonderful. I don't remember where the original recipe came from but I can check when I get home where the book is and possibly include a redaction. Although I am sure many people on this list have already redacted the recipe I am thinking of, so if people wish please post your version. Angeline Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:49:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: SC - Cherries - --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > margaret at Health.State.OK.US writes: > << Would also like to know if there are > any period varieties still being grown in large enough numbers to show up at > markets. Ras you seem to be very knowledgeable. >> > > Alas my knowledge in the cherry area is somewhat limited. :-( I am not aware > of any actual cherry varieties that are being marketed today that may have > been available to those living in the Middle Ages. > > As for recipes, Cherioun comes to mind. I think it > is in Two-Fifteenth Century Cookery Books, IIRC. From what I have seen so far, the Morello or Black Cherry is the only cherry that has continued from period until now. It is and was very essential in German and Dutch cooking. Huette Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:33:39 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Cherries and strawberries > so what are those period ones like? Would they be more like > the choke cherry? More sour? There were many different type of cherries in period. At least three different type are displayed in The Fruit Seller. The problem is the cherries are often classified by the color of their juice and the tartness or sweetness of their taste; two characteristics difficult to transmit without direct experience. As an opinion, any modern cherry probably had a counterpart in the Middle Ages and you should probably seek those types which best fit the recipe. > And what about strawberries. I haven't checked the > florilegium yet and I absolutely must get to bed before 1 am > today. The only food ref I have is Food in History and > they're not mentioned. Not sure of the history. Thanks. > Serian Pardon any errors, but I'm working from memory. Strawberries were mostly harvested from the wild prior to the 14th Century. They then were brought from the wild and planted in manor gardens. The type commonly planted was the "fraise du bois" or European woodland strawberry, whose scientific name escapes me. Also available, but less common, was Fragaria moschata or the musky strawberry. In the New World, Fragaria virginiana and Fragaria chiloensis were found. Because of chromosomal differences, cross-breeding with "fraise du bois" and F. moschata is very unproductive. F. virginiana and F. chiloensis cross-breed easily with each other and in the 18th Century they were cross-bred to produce the modern commercial strawberries. "Fraise du bois" are available, but you will probably need to grow your own or purchase them through a specialty grocer. I know that the berries are unavailable in any of my local markets. Bear Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:52:41 -0400 From: "Hupman, Laurie" Subject: RE: SC - Cherries I only know of two varieties of cherry that are still available today: morellos and montemorcy (sp?). Morellos, I believe, were more common then, however they are terribly difficult to come by now. I can sometimes find pint jars of them in the German deli, packed in water and spices. Montemorcy cherries, according to my friendly neighborhood cooking laurel, were _the_ pie cherry of the late Middle Ages. I don't know what his reference is, but in desperation he bought a cherry tree and planted it in his back yard. I think he should be getting his first fruit from it this year. Whenever I've seen a cherry referred to by name in a recipe, however, it's been a morello. Rose :) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:45:24 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Cherries I was able to get the Montmorency's dried from Baker's Catalogue...King Arthur Flour folks! Don't remember what they cost, but, soaked either in water or a nice red wine, they plumped up very nicely and worked well with my recipe. Kiri Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:45:53 EDT From: Mbatmantis at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Cherries There are three types of cherries; Sweet, Sour (pie) and Duke. There are two types of sour cherries: Amarelle (clear juice yellow flesh) or Morello (red juice and flesh) . The Montmorency is the amarelle type. It is the standard sour cherry. They are very easily found at any nursery that deals in fruit trees or from any mail order source. They are available through Stark Bro's for $20 for semi-dwarf trees. Dwarf trees are a little more. The web site is MySeasons.com . All cherries need a considerable winter chill and moist but well drained soil. R. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:43:12 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: SC - Some recipes with sour cherries in German cookbooks (was: need help) << I would like to use sour cherries as one of the sweets. Would it be appropriate to make a compote? >> As far as I can see, the use of sour cherries (germ. _weichsel_, _wissel_, _weixl_, etc.) is documented in the German cookbooks from 1350 onwards in different preparations: Buch von guoter Speise (around 1350): - -- #82 Ein wissel mu:os - -- #83 Ein gu:ot fu:elle - -- #84 Ein cumpost von wisseln - -- #85 Einen fladen von wisseln online at: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/bvgs.htm (there are other versions and an English translation online, too) The cookbook in the manuscript Basel D II 30 (around 1480) has a sauce from sour cherries: "WJltu machen ein gut salssen von weichselen so thu dy weichselen in einen haffen vnd secz in auf ein glut vnd losz sie sieden vnd losz sie kalt werden vnd streich sie durch ein tuch vnd thu sie [in den] in einen haffen vnd secz sie aber auff ein glut vnd losz sie wol siedenn vnd r?r sie pisz daz sie dick werden vnd thu dor ein honig vnd geribens prott negelein vnd gut stup genuck vnd thu sie in ein veslein so pleibtt ez ein Jar oder vir gut" (fol. 300ra). (The same recipe in the cookbook and dietetic text of Meister Eberhard; see the recipe #1 at: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/feyl.htm) Further, there are two recipes with sour cherries from the cookbook of Balthasar Staindl 1569: "Ein fast gu:ots mu:o?/ das schwartz ist. xlix. Schneid gu:ot o:epffel in ein Hafen/ vnnd thu:o darzu ein theil der roten Weichseln oder Zwe?gen/ auch ein gu:ot theil die mollen von einer semel/ vnd ge¸? ein wein daran/ la? also durch einander wol sieden/ bi? es fein weich wirt/ so streichs durch ein siblin oder tu:och/ thu:o zucker darein/ vnd gu:ots linds gw¸rtz/ la? absieden in einer pfannen/ gibs kalt oder warm." "Torten von Weichseln vnd Amerellen. xxxix. Die nimb/ thu:o den kern daruon/ vnd zuckers rein wol ein/ vn{d} thu:os in die Torten vom teig gemacht/ ein deckel oben dar¸ber/ gibs warm." In the cookbook of Sabina Welser (1553), there are several recipes with sour cherries, too: - -- #46 (Weixelmus?) - -- #72 (Ain torten von amelberen, kersen, ...) - -- #165 (auffgelaffne weixlen) - -- #130 (weixeltorte) The original text is online at: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/sawe.htm Valoise Armstrong's English translation is webbed on David Friedman's site I am not sure whether or not the recipe #55 of Danner's Kochrezepte aus dem bayerischen Inntal (around 1500) is about sour cherries, because one of the older meanings of "weichsel" was to denote the Vogelkirsche, and in #44 "pech" of "weichselp‰umen" is mentioned which is typical for the Vogelkirsche. This text is online at: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/kb-dann.htm. Of course, Rumpolt (1581) mentions or describes kinds of preparations with sour cherries: Nimb du:erre Weichsel/ sto? sie mit dem Kern/ treib sie mit Wein durch/ machs su:e? mit Zimmet vnd Zucker/ vnnd la? darmit auffsieden/ so ist es ein gute Weichselsuppen. Nimb frische Weichsel/ rei? die Stengel ab/ geu? Wein/ gestossenen Zimmet vnd Zucker darein/ la? darmit auffsieden/ thu gero:e?t Brot von einem Weck darvnter/ vnd gibs warm auff einen Tisch/ vnnd bestra:ew es mit Zucker. Nimb Amarellen/ vnd sto? sie mit den Kern/ sie seyn du:err oder gru:en/ streich sie mit Zimmet vnnd Wein durch/ vnnd mach sie wol su:e?/ la? darmit auffsieden/ so ist es gut. Mach ein Teig an von lauter Wein/ sto? Weichsel mit dem Stengel hinein/ la? den Teig herab rinnen/ vnd wirffs geschwindt in heisse Butter/ vnd la? geschwindt backen/ da? der Safft nit herau? rinnet/ wenns gebacken ist/ so bestra:ew es mit weissem Zucker/ vnd gibs warm auff ein Tisch. Gebacken Amarellen in einem solchen Teig gebacken. Weichsel Turten/ thu die Kern auch herau?. Amarellen Turten mit Zimmet vnd Zucker angemacht. Oder nim{m} die Amarellen/ vn{d} streich sie durch/ thu gerieben Brot von einem Weck darvnter/ so wirt die Fu:ell desto steiffer. In addition, Maister Hanns (1460) has a dish with seven colors, where the red-brown color is due to the sour cherries ("Die rott prawn varb geet von weichseln zue"; fol. 97r.5). On fol. 102v, there is a recipe "Von einem gemu:ess von stain obs ze machen", where "weichseln" are mentioned as one of the possible ingredients (Nr. 270 in the Ehlert edition). (...) Best, Thomas Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:37:36 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: SC - Cherry preserves And it came to pass on 21 Sep 00,, that Vincent Cuenca wrote: > The same one as you. 1929, Dionisio Perez, reprint of the 1529. > An Electuary of Sour Cherries for Invalids who Have Lost the Desire to Eat > > Take as many sour cherries as you wish and put them in a pot on the fire > and add just enough water, and let them cook in this water until they > become very tender and appear to be white; and then throw out the water in > which they have cooked; and then take a coarse sieve of bristles, which > you can strain them with and rub them with your hands until they have all > passed through. Then take for each pound of these sour cherries, prepared > in this way, half a pound of sugar and mix it in its pot over a low fire; > stirring constantly with a piece of cane until it is cooked; and then take > it off and put this electuary in a glazed jar with a good cover; you can > add some cloves and a little cinnamon to it. And here is mine: Take as many sour cherries as you wish and put them in a saucepan upon the fire and cast them in water by themselves, and let them cook in that water until they turn very tender and appear white; and then throw out that water of yours in which they cooked; and then take a sieve of very thin horsehair, in which you can strain them and rub them so much with your hands that everything passes through. Then take for each pound of these cherries thusly prepared, half a pound of sugar and mix it in your saucepan on a gentle fire; constantly stirring with a cane until they are cooked; and then put it aside and put this electuary in a vessel of glazed earthenware, well stoppered; if you wish you can put some cloves and a little cinnamon in it. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) From: "Morgan Cain" To: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:06:51 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cherries The current issues of COOK'S magazine (July-August 2001) has an article on cherries, comparing frozen and tinned and jarred and fresh. Apparently it is not just the method of keeping the cherries, but the kind of cherry that makes a big difference. ---= Morgan Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bethra Spicewell To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Online dried cherries My favorite source for dried cherries is online, at the Northern Delights company. They are based out of Florida, but the product is from Michigan, IIRC. They also have dried cranberries, but I haven't tried those yet. They do have some added sweetener, though. I think the corn syrup is partly what keeps them soft. They're wonderful as a snack - which is why they're in an unmarked opaque container in the fridge. ;-) Bethra * Christina Elisabeth de la Griffon Riant Barony of Stonemarche EK * Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 17:55:46 -0400 From: "Barbara Evans" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cherries (Long) Since we were discussing what sort of cherries worked best for Kiri's Another Crust of Tame Creatures, I looked up some information on them. What I concluded was that, although the sweet cherry varieties we use in the U.S. today are not period, they may not be all that different from sweet cherries used in period. The sour cherries we use may be period; I was unable to find documentation for Montmorency cherries to our period, and would appreciate hearing from anyone with more information. Mathilde From Alan Davidson's _The Oxford Companion to Food_, p. 163: Groups of Cherry Varieties Sweet cherries have often been classed into two main groups: bigarreau with firm, dry flesh; and guigne (the French equivalent of 'gean') with soft, juicy flesh. However, hybridization has blurred this old distinction. Sweet cherries of the firmer (bigarreau) sort include the justly popular 'white' (in reality light red and yellow) Napoleon, Bing (a fine red cherry, named after his Chinese workman by an American grower, now dominating US fresh sweet cherry production), and Rainier (a cross of Bing and Van, delicate and exquisitely sweet)> Softer (guigne) varieties include Black Tartarian and Coe's Transparent (with a clear skin, but too delicate to be shipped.) Sour cherries are classified into two groups: amarelle or relatively light colored, with clear juice; and griotte, dark or black, with coloured juice. Montmorency (which originated in the valley of that name in the Ile-de-France, where a Fete de la Cerise is still held annually) is a famous variety of amarelle; and Morello the best-known griotte. Sweet-and-sour cherries are intermediate between the above categories. They often go under the name Duke (Royale in France). This kind of cherry came to England from Medoc, which name was adapted to May Duke, later abbreviated to Duke. From the Salem History Project, developed by the Salem Public Library, Salem, Oregon (http://salemhistory.org/agriculture/ac01.htm): The Cherry City The story of Salem's cherry industry begins in 1847 when pioneer nurseryman Henderson Lewelling...arrived from Iowa. Lewelling brought with him 700 tiny fruit trees in earth-filled boxes. Shortly after arriving in the Willamette Valley, Lewelling took up a land claim near Milwaukee where he established an orchard....Among the cherry trees brought from Iowa was one Napoleon Bigarreau which, for reasons now long forgotten, Mr. Lewelling called "Royal Anne."....Seth Lewelling [Henderson's brother] is best remembered for his work in developing new fruit varieties. Among these, two black cherries stand out...the original Black Republican tree [which was] grown from a seed of a Black Eagle cherry, and, in 1875, a Black Republican planting [which] produced a promising seedling that [Seth] Lewelling named "Bing" after his faithful Chinese helper. From the National Cherry Festival web page (http://www.cherryfestival.org/cherries/history.php): "Another sweet cherry variety is the Lambert, which also got its start on Lewelling Farms." "The Rainier cherry, a light sweet variety, originated from the cross breeding of the Bing and Van varieties....The Bing, Lambert, and Rainier varieties together account for more than 95 percent of the Northwest sweet cherry production." From _Domestication of Plants in the Old World_, 2nd. edition, Daniel Zohary and Maria Hopf, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1994: Chapter 5: Fruit trees and nuts Definite evidence for their cultivation [the apple, pear, plum, and cherry] only appears in the 1st millennium bc and their extensive incorporation into horticulture seems to have taken place only in Greek and Roman times....A plausible explanation for the late appearance of these 'second wave' fruit domesticates is that they do not lend themselves to simple vegetative propagation [unlike the olive, grape vine, fig, date palm, and pomegranate, which can be propagated through cuttings]. Their culture is based almost entirely on grafting....The adoption of clonal cultivation means that most fruit trees, in the 5 or 6 millennia since their introduction into cultivation, have undergone very few sexual cycles. In other words, selection could only have operated during a limited number of generations, and we have to expect that the cultivars have not diverged considerably from their progenitors' gene-pools. Cherries: Prunus avium and P. cerasus The sweet cherry, P. avium [cherries liked by birds!] is a rather tall tree...with sweet, round, red-black berries....The cultivated clones of the sweet cherry [P. avium] are closely related to a group of wild and feral forms which are widely distributed over temperate Europe....The sour cherry, P. cerasus, is a smaller tree...with bright red berries and a characteristic acid taste....The earliest report of cherry cultivation appears in classical times. Pliny tells that Lucullus, in the first century BC, introduced to Rome a superior cherry variety which he obtained in the Pontus region...Large quantities of cherry stones were found in both Roman and Medieval contexts in Germany as well as other central European countries. From: lilinah at earthlink.net Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:21 -0800 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Morella cherries From: "Debra Hense" >Does anyone know when they come into season? Can they be obtained in the US? >I have a produce manager lined up who may be willing to order them. > >I'm looking at a late April/Early May timeframe for the german feast >I am planning. I've never seen them fresh, or if i did, i didn't know they were Morellos. I usually buy them bottled in light syrup. When the store where i usually buy them ran out, i bought Morello cherry jam that had huge whole cherries in it (it was imported) for the mostly German Boar Hunt i did in December. I mixed the cherries and the jam together. All the recipes that used them involved cooking them with sugar anyway - not quite the same i realize, but better than other canned cherries. I recently found real Morello cherry syrup at the Persian market. Beats the heck out of the Italian Torani cherry syrup on wonderful flavor, and it isn't that icky artificial bright red either, another plus. Anahita From: "Randy Goldberg MD" To: Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maraschino cherries, was I quit- and froup! Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:07:32 -0500 > What's the difference between Maraschino and morello? How does the flavor's > differ? Never heard of morello but i'm a fan of maraschino According to Epicurious (www.epicurious.com), Maraschino cherries are a specially treated fruit that can be made from any variety of cherry, though the Royal Ann is most often used. The cherries are pitted and then macerated in a flavored sugar syrup (usually almond flavor for red cherries, mint for green). At one time they were traditionally flavored with Maraschino liqueur, though such an extravagance is now rare. The cherries are then dyed red or green. The federal government has now banned the use of the harmful dyes that were used until recently. Maraschino cherries can be purchased with or without stems. They're used as a garnish for desserts and cocktails, as well as in baked goods and fruit salads. Because of the processing, they really don't taste much like cherries at all. Morello cherries, on the other hand, according to TV Food Network (www.foodtv.com), are sour cherries with dark red skin and flesh, seldom found fresh and used in a variety of processed products. The blood-red juice is used in making liqueurs and brandies, and the cherries can be found canned, packed in syrup, dried and in preserves. The sharp, sour taste makes the Morello unsuitable for eating raw but perfect for cooking. Avraham **************************************** Avraham haRofeh (mka Randy Goldberg MD) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:14:13 -0800 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maraschino cherries, was I quit- and froup! Maire wrote: >Hey, Anahita, do you have an online source for morellos? I'd love to try >them....with or without chocolate liqueur Even my local source ran dry. I was cooking a German rice and cherry dish for the Boar Hunt in December and i needed 2 or 3 bottles. There were only one or two on the shelf and the store never got more in. Last time i was in there they *still* didn't have any. I think the source was somewhere in Europe. I've seen Hungarian bottled morellos in Mittle European delis... For the feast i ended up purchasing some European morello cherry preserves with big whole fruits in it and mixing that with the bottled cherries. Since the dish called for sugar, i just didn't need to add any, since it was in the jam. I know the dish wasn't the same, but, well, you do what you can with what you can find. If you do a search on http://www.google.com for all the words morello cherries light syrup you'll find a selection of American on-line vendors. I know, i just looked :-) I haven't shopped from any of them, though. Maybe i should buy a case. When my daughter is home, she and i will sit watching a video and eat a whole jar, then drink the juice/syrup (it's light enough to seem like juice). Heck, we *fight over* the juice. That's why finding the beverage syrup was such as good thing :-) Anahita Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:43:09 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at mail.earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period fruit trees Vincent Cuenca" wrote: >Actually, what I'm doing is tracking down things for this bedratted >confectioner's manual. The work mentions small oranges, quinces, lemons, >peaches, apples and Genovese cherries, among other things. I'd like to be >able to narrow down the varieties a bit. I'm guessing they weren't growing >Bing cherries in Genoa in 1450, so what kind were they? That's what I gotta >figure out. I don't know about Genoa, but the German cookbooks from around this time appear to specify Morello cherries. Anahita Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:22:27 -0400 From: "Christine Seelye-King" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] more on preserved sour cherries To: "Cooks within the SCA" Sour cherry juice should be available at your local health food store. Christianna >so I get out the Elixirs of Nostradamus and discover that you have to >have sour cherry juice to preserve them in-- so I don't have enough sour >cherries. If they are not perfect, though, he says to boil them down [and >strain?] until >only the skins and seeds remain... presumably that is how you get the sour >cherry juice? So if I can get more sour cherries on Friday, and if I make >the juice with the sugar from the ones I have now, will that work, do you >think? ?-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:48:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: [Sca-cooks] Preserving Bitter Cherries recipe To: From _The Elixirs of Nostradamus_: How to Preserve Bitter Cherries in the most delectable and exquisite manner so that, although the process may have been undertaken the previous year, they yet have the appearance of being prepared the very same day. Take about three pounds of the most beautiful and ripest bitter cherries you can obtain (but if they are not fresh, boil them until nothing remains after straining except the stones and skins). If you think that the stalks are too long, shorten them. Then take a pound and a half of sugar and disssolved it in three or four pounds of another bitter cherry brew or juice, making sure that you add the sugar immediately the juice has been extracted. Then put it over the fires and dissolve it only with the said juice. Let it boil as quickly as possible and remove any scum during the boiling. When you have done this to the best of your ability and see that the sugar has turned red and is thoroughly refined and purified, do not remove it from the fire but let it go on boiling and drop the bitter cherries into it. Stir them gently but continuously with a spatula until they are thoroughly cooked and foaming. Still do not take them off the fire until they are cooked right through, so that you do not have to put them on the fire again. When you put a drop on a pewter plate and see that it does not run, then it is properly boiled, so pour it while still warm into small containers holding three or four ounces. You wil then have beautiful red, whole bitter cherries with a most delectable taste with will keep for a long while. I, however, have been to many and varied places in the world and have learned and experienced that and how this one does a thing one way and another a different way, so that I should run out of paper were I to attempt to write everythign down. I believe, however, that France and Italy excel in this matter, though from what I have seen they go about it in an odd way. So I have seen it made in Toulouse, Bordeaux and Rochelle and recently, while we are on the subject also in Genoa, Languedoc, the whole of the Dauphine' and in the area round about Lyons. But I have never come across more beautiful and and better ones than theses. In Toulouse tehy boil them five or six times and several times in Bordeaux. Eventually, though, when they are five or six months old, some go rotten and bad and useless and others shrivel. If you want to preserve them properly, you must use nothing except the juice of bitter cherries, as it increases their goodenss, size, and taste. For if a sick person takes just a single one, he will consider it as a balsam or other strengthening substance. After a lapse of a year they are as good as they were on the first day. -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:07:40 EST From: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cherry question To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I got this recipe from the New book of Cookery 1591. Does anyone have ideas on which type I should be using, sour or sweet cherries? I'm leaning toward sour just because they have a more robust flavor and texture that would hold up to frying and then boiling. Thanks, Grace To make pottage of Cherries. Fry white bread in butter til it be brown and so put it into a dish, then take Cherries and take out the stones and frye them where you fried the bread then put thereto Sugar, Ginger, and Sinamon, for lacke of broth, take White or Claret Wine, boyle these togither, and that doon, serve them upon your Tostes. Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:21:07 -0500 From: "Tom Bilodeau" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Cherry question To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" Grace, I would use sour cherries. Since you are already adding sugar to the pottage, the sugar will mellow the tartness. Otherwise, it will be too sweet and not too tasty. Tirloch Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:22:58 -0700 From: James Prescott Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherry question To: Cooks within the SCA > To make pottage of Cherries. > Fry white bread in butter til it be brown and so put it into a dish, then > take Cherries and take out the stones and frye them where you fried the bread > then put thereto Sugar, Ginger, and Sinamon, for lacke of broth, take White or > Claret Wine, boyle these togither, and that doon, serve them upon your > Tostes. There's a 1593 Dutch recipe somewhat similar from Cocboeck that calls for the use of sour cherries. The following is a rough translation: "71 How to make sour-cherry-sauce. Take sour-cherries and remove the stones and put therewith some thick red wine or some other wine or nothing [more than] its own broth and put therewith some butter, sugar and some ginger and cinnamon -- as it pleases you -- and four or five egg yolks until you have it good and leave well to boil and then put through a sieve. Then you might boil it again a bit and then add first-times the sugar and the herbs." Thorvald Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:43:29 +0000 From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherry question To: Cooks within the SCA I did a similar dish, but from a different source, called Syrose of Cherries, some time back...in fact the ingredients were almost identical. I did use sour cherries and the result was wonderful. I served it with a pork roast... Kiri Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:01:14 -0500 From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] fruit varieties for cooking To: "Cooks within the SCA" From: "Stefan li Rous": > Do you mean that the added sugar actually helps turn these cherries to > mush? Or do you mean that since you are going to mush these anyway, you > end up with a sweet mush vs. a sour one? as to Bing Cherries in my humble opinion........ 1. Bing Cherries tend to turn to mush under heat, even WORSE than any other sweet cherry 2. sweet cherries tend to turn to mush when cooked, while sour cherries hold their shape much better. 3. this can be used to advantage by chopping a few sweet cherries in with the whole sour cherries you are cooking, to provide a sweet cherry sauce with no artificial or added sugars. 4. sugar seems to make the "mush" issue worse..... i think, but am not sure, that it has to do with drawing the juice out of the cherry. it does something of the same thing with apples, but they stay a bit firmer. Kirsten Houseknecht Fabric Dragon kirsten at fabricdragon.com Philadelphia, PA USA Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:10:07 -0400 From: Patrick Levesque Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: "Cooks within the SCA " , "EKCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com" I had too much time on my hands yesterday evening so I tried out Platina's sour cherry pie (book VIII, #40). The recipe calls for well ground, pitted sour cherries, well cut-up red roses, fresh cheese, aged cheese, ginger, pepper, sugar, and 4 eggs. (and sugar and rosewater to sprinkle on top afterwards). So I used: 1 can well washed Bing cherries (I hate the corn syrup taste but 'tis not the season for fresh cherries, unfortunately) (about 1 1/2 cup) 1 large red rose, wased (watch out for pesticides if you do this) 1 pound cottage cheese 1 tablespoon parmesan 1/2 cup sugar About 1 teaspoon dry ginger About 1/2 teaspoon pepper 4 eggs Used a mixer to turn the cottage cheese into a smooth paste. Added the cherries and mixed everything more or less evenly. Finely hashed the rose petals and threw that in as well. Mixed in the sugar, pepper, ginger. Beat the four eggs together (not too fluffy) and added that. This was enough to fill to 9" pastry shells. Baked in oven at 350 for about one hour. By then it was 10h30 so I let it cool overnight. ---- Next time: more cherries, (fresh cherries!!) and maybe a tad more parmesan (that's all I had left) and pepper. It makes for a nice looking pie, though, and yummy enough. But it definitely needs more cherries (hmmmm.... Cherries...) Petru Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:22:14 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: Cooks within the SCA Patrick Levesque wrote: > I had too much time on my hands yesterday evening so I tried out > Platina's sour cherry pie (book VIII, #40). > > The recipe calls for well ground, pitted sour cherries, well cut-up red > roses, fresh cheese, aged cheese, ginger, pepper, sugar, and 4 eggs. (and > sugar and rosewater to sprinkle on top afterwards). I'm delighted to see your redaction of this recipe. A friend of mine has agreed to make these for my feast on May 8. She's going to experiment with using ricotta cheese and fresh farmers' cheese...she's very well-versed with making cheesecake, and this sounded to me like that's what it is. As we cannot hope to get the roses that are needed (florists only have roses treated with pesticides), we are going to use rosewater instead. We are also thinking about scattering caster sugar on the top, then carmelizing it with a mini-flame-thrower...you know, the kind they sell for doing creme brulee. Kiri Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:48:07 -0400 From: "Sharon Gordon" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: "Cooks within the SCA" Some places have whole, pitted frozen cherries (both sour and sweet kinds) in something like 3 to 5 pound bags. The ones I have had tasted very fresh rather than having some of the can taste. Sharon gordonse at one.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:41:28 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: Cooks within the SCA Also sprach Elaine Koogler: > Petru, > I just had another thought on the cherries. We are planning to use > dried cherries (same problem as you with the fresh ones), and plan > to reconstitute them with some sweet white wine. This might be a > little better than the canned ones...I used canned ones when I made > the "Crust with Tame Creatures" from Platina some years back, then > tried it again with the dried, then reconstituted ones...it was much > better. Another option would be the sour cherries available in juice or light syrup in jars, available in various ethnic markets. I often see them in places where Eastern European, Russian, or Balkan groceries are sold. Adamantius Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 0:34:18 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: "Cooks within the SCA" I haven't seen the answer to this yet, so I'm going to ask: Why are you using Bing cherries in Sour Cherry Pie? Unless your Bing cherries are very different than the ones I grew up with, they are a sweet cherry. I wouldn't even consider them for somthing like this. I'd get, well... Pie Cherries. I have also found that canned Bing cherries taste fairly nasty compared to when they are fresh. Pie cherries don't seem to have this sliminess/blah taste. If I had a choice I'd get frozen pie cherries as the best tasting. Of course, there is always the fact that Bing cherries were apparently developed here in Oregon only about a century ago. Regina Date:Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:06:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: Cooks within the SCA When I was a child here in California, my folks took the family cherry picking every summer at the local u-pick orchards. I know that we mostly picked pie cherries for the very reason you mention. Pie cherries hold up whn home canned but sweet cherries don't as well. I haven't seen a fresh pie cherry in a supermarket in years. All that I have seen lately are Bings, Reiners, and Dark cherries. I really have to get myself to one of those farmers markets to see what they ring in. As for using already commercially canned cherries in jars for a pie that is being baked isn't a good idea, IMHO. You will end up with a cherry mush pie. I think that the better way would be either using the reconstituted dry cherries that Kiri talked about or the frozen cherries that someone else talked about. Huette Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:33:16 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie To: Cooks within the SCA Also sprach Huette von Ahrens: > As for using already commercially canned cherries > in jars for a pie that is being baked isn't a > good idea, IMHO. You will end up with a cherry > mush pie. I think tat the better way would be > either using the reconstituted dry cherries that > Kiri talked about or the frozen cherries that > someone else talked about. But it _is_ a cherry mush pie, when properly made. The recipe does call for the cherries to be ground up, and then cooked with other ingredients, somewhat akin to the process for making pumpkin pie. Using cherries in a jar (which I specify because I've used them before, they're readily available, and they work well in this recipe) would involve cooking them and then grinding them, and then cooking them again. All the humanity... I suspect the biggest consideration may be what's available to Petru in Canada. Clearly he needs almost anything else but sweet cherries canned in corn syrup, but then I feel corn syrup should be banned by the Geneva Convention in most cases. Adamantius Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 01:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherries cherries and more cherries To: Cooks within the SCA --- Karin Burgess wrote: > After an outing with my daughter to the local cherry orchard, we > have pounds of them. Mostly > bing and Rainier. They also had sour cherries but i didn't get > any. I can always go back though. > > Anyone care to share their favorite cherry recipes? I will have quite > a bit left over after we eat some and give some away as presentation gifts > tomorrow. > > -Muiriath > From Sabina Welserin: 123 To make a very good sour cherry tart Take a pound of sour cherries and remove all of the pits. Afterwards take a half pound of sugar and a half ounce of finely ground cinnamon sticks and mix the sugar with it. Next mix the cherries with it and put it after that in the pie shell made of good flour and let it bake in the tart pan. 130 To make a sour cherry tart Take the sour cherries, take out the stones and make a pastry crust as for the other tarts. Take bread crumbs from grated white bread and fry them in fat. Pour them on the crust, sprinkle sugar and cinnamon on top, Put the sour cherries in it, leaving their juice in the bowl, sprinkle it well with sugar and with cinnamon, make a crust on top of it, let it bake, as it is customary. 165 To bake sour cherry puffs Take hot water, lay fat the size of a walnut into it, and when the fat is melted, then make a batter with flour, it should be thick. Beat it until it bubbles, after that thin it with egg whites. If you like, you can also put a few egg yolks into it. Tie four sour cherries together, dip them in the batter and fry them. Shake the pan, then they will rise. The fat must be very hot. Huette Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:07:49 -0400 From: "grizly" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherries cherries and more cherries To: "Cooks within the SCA" -----Original Message----- After an outing with my daughter to the local cherry orchard, we have pounds of them. Mostly bing and Rainier. They also had sour cherries but i didn't get any. I can always go back though. Anyone care to share their favorite cherry recipes? I will have quite a bit left over after we eat some and give some away as presentation gifts tomorrow. -Muiriath >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scully's Neapolitan Cuisine offers basically a cherry cheesecake/torta for cherries. I did it woth sour cherries, but bing or ranier would be just fine. It is webbed at http://franiccolo.home.mindspring.com/torta_de_cerase.html #137 Tolle cesrase rosse ho piu negre che si possa trovare, he poi cavarai for a quello suo osso he pista e cerase in uno mortaro; poi piglia rose rrosse he batile - dico, solo le foglie - cum uno cultello molto bene tute; poi habi uno poco de caso fresco he veghio cum specie a discretione, he canella he bono zenzaro cum poco pipero he zucaro, he miscolari tute queste cose insieme, agiongendoli .vi. ova; et farai una crosta de pasta sopre la padella he cum meza libre de butiro, he ponella ha a cocere, dandoli el foco temperato; he quando he cotta, pone del zucaro he aqua rosata. Cherry Torte (#137) Get red cherries or the darkest available, remove the pit and grind in a mortar; then get red roses and crush them well -- I mean the petals alone - with a knifel get a little new and old cheese with a reasonable amount of spices, cinnamon and good ginger with a liitle pepper and sugar, and mix everything together, adding in six eggs; make a pastry crust for the pan with half a pound of butter and set it to cook giving it moderate fire; when it is cooked, put on sugar and rosewater. NICCOLO'S RECIPE Serves 8-12 prebake pastry crust preheat oven to 350F 1 lb. Sour cherries 6 eggs Pastry crust (made with 1/2 # butter) 8 ounces fresh/soft cheese dash of rose water (to taste) 2 Tbl sugar 1/4 c. grated semi soft cheese 1/4 tsp cinnamon 1/4 tsp. Powdered ginger pinch black pepper Coarsely grind cherries in mortar or food processor, or chop coarsely with knife. Mix together cheeses, sugar, spices and eggs. Add cherries and rosewater. Pour into prepared, pre-baked pastry shell as one pie or as several tarts. Bake at 350F until just set and it moves as one mass when jiggled, about 40 minutes; do not overcook! Remove from over and sprinkle immediately with sugar and a dash of rosewater. ORIGINAL TEXT & TRANSLATION Scully, T. (2000). Cuoco Napoletano - The Neapolitan Recipe Collection: a critical edition and English translation. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:04:08 -0400 From: "Stephanie Ross" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherries, cherries and more cherries To: "SCA-Cooks" Here are a couple of recipes for cherries from The Lucayos Cookbook, an Elizabethan cookbook published in 1660 and discovered in the 1950's in the Bahamas. Preserve cherries single in jelly Take faire Flemish cherries when they are full ripe, pull out the stones and stalkes, then weigh them and to a pound of cherries, take a pound of sugar beaten small. Put in ye bottom of the pan 6 or 7 spoonefulls of faire water, then lay in the cherries and sugar. Keep some sugar to strew on them in the boiling. Let them boile very fast still takeing up the sirrup in the porringers to scum it, and put it in againe when they begin to looke cleare. Have ready of the juice of red currance, a pinte to 2 pound of cherries and to it a pound of fine sugar. Mix well together, then poure it into ye cherries on the fire and let them boile a little. Take them up in to glasses and place the cherries to your likeing and stand them a weeke to settle the jelly. Make marmalade of cherries Take 10 or 12 pound of very good cherries; stone them into a preserveing pan, keepe all the juice to them, then boile them on a good charcoale fire as fast as you can - often shakeing and scumming them. When it growes thick, stir it continually that it doe not burne. When all the juice is dried it comes cleane from the bottom of the pan; then take it up and weighe it in a glasse and to every pound of cherries take halfe a pound of loafe sugar beaten and put as much water to it as will just wett it. Boile it to sirrup and scum it, put yor cherries to it and mix well together and set them on a gentle fire at first. Then let boile very fast keepeing stirring, till it comes from ye bottome of the pan. Then take them off the fire and let it coole a little. Put it in glasses and let stand in a warme place two dayes. Preserve coronation cherries Take the cheeries and stone them they are fresh gathered. Then take as much sugar finely beaten as the weight of the cherries bee; put in the bottome of the skellet 5 spoonefulls of the sirrup of cherries or else red currants to every pound; then put halfe your sugar and lay in your cherries and throw a little of the other sugar up on them and set over the fire. You must not make ye fire too hot at first, but when ye sugar is melted boile them as fast as you can and still as your sirrup rises take it off into silver porringers and scum it and put it in againe. With it throw in your other sugar at several times too keep boiling till they looke cleare and in ye boiling shake them often. When ye sirrup is enough it will hang on a spoone like jelly. Then take them off the fire and let stand till they are cold before you put them up. You may save a little of the sirrup to add ye next day. Aislinn Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:43:01 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lucayos Cook Book was Cherries, cherries and more cherries To: hlaislinn at earthlink.net, Cooks within the SCA Stephanie Ross wrote: > Here are a couple of recipes for cherries from The Lucayos Cookbook, an > Elizabethan cookbook published in 1660 and discovered in the 1950's > in the Bahamas. Sorry but I have step in and play stuffy librarian here. The Lucayos Cook Book was never published in the 1660's. It was a "family" manuscript. The manuscript is described on the cover of the 1959 soft cover pamphlet as "Being an Original Manuscript, 300 years old, never published. Found in the Bahamas. Kept for 30 years to Test-Refine from AD 1660 to 1690 by a Noble Family of Elizabethan England. Long lost to Epicureans and the World." The first edition was published in 1959. That's the only edition that I know of. I am lucky enough to have one that includes all the assorted descriptive materials from the original printing which indicate that it sold for three dollars along with an appendix. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:25:17 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lucayos Cook Book was Cherries, cherries and more cherries To: Cooks within the SCA Huette von Ahrens wrote: > I don't wish to be a stuffy librarian here either, but since I don't yet have > this book, is there anyway to know if this book is a true manuscript and not > some forgery meant to deceive? The phrase "Kept for 30 year to Test-Refine > from AD 1660 to 1690" bothers me a lot. Is there a provenance for > this book? > > Huette There's really no provenance to speak of and the information given by the text is quite limited. Without seeing the original, I have no trouble believing that it is a family manuscript. It may have been begun in the 17th century. (Is the late 17th century 1660-1690 really Elizabethan?) Certain recipes read like late 17th century recipes. It may actually have been continued past 1700. What makes it famous or infamous is that it contains a tomato recipe for "Ye Ketchup." This is the last recipe so it could well have been added much later. No details are given as to the handwriting or if it changed during the course of the text. It's just this very small pamphlet of recipes reputed to be from an early culinary mss. It would be nice if someone else had the chance to examine and evaluate the original manuscript, but I don't know that such an examination ever has or will take place. What makes the Fettiplace manuscript so valuable is that we have a transcript of all the recipes now to go along with Spurling's versions. We don't have that for this work. Karen Hess noted that the "documentation is scanty, but the text rings true." She mentions it in connection with a pepper cakes or gingerbread recipe. See Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery. Johnnae Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:42:27 -0400 From: "Stephanie Ross" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lucayos cookbook To: "SCA-Cooks" Oh no, not THE LIBRARIAN! ;P You are right about it not being published in the 1600's and I apoligize for the confusion. Wrong choice of words, "compiled" would have been better. I have a copy of the 1959 pamphlet also. I hope to go to the Bahamas in the next couple of years (I live in Florida) and I intend to seek out the original manuscript. I wish the family would print it in facsimile so that we can look at the original and not have to rely solely upon the pamphlet for information. I think the publishers were more interested in the witchy herbal stuff in the back of the manuscript than the cookbook itself. We also have no way of knowing which recipes were added by succesive generations. It would also be nice to be able to verify the manuscript's authenticity by a means other than the little tourist-trap pamphlet. Aislinn Sorry but I have step in and play stuffy librarian here. The Lucayos Cook Book was never published in the 1660's. It was a "family" manuscript. The manuscript is described on the cover of the 1959 soft cover pamphlet as (snip) Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:20:33 EDT From: SilverR0se at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherries cherries and more cherries To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org avrealtor at prodigy.net writes: > Anyone care to share their favorite cherry recipes? Eleanor Fettiplace's book has a number of nummy cherry recipes. Renata Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:05:18 -0700 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP -- Cherry Liqueur To: euriol at ptd.net, Cooks within the SCA [Arwen was asking for suggestions of what to do with a bumper crop of cherries] euriol wrote: <<< How about making a cherry pottage? >>> Cyrosye (from Curye on Inglisch IIRC) is pretty good- too good, in fact! Last time I made some I was intending to take it to an event. Daughter #1 was visiting, and while I was out doing something, she decided to 'taste test' it. By the time I got home, it was ALL GONE and she had a look on her face very like her kitty after getting into something she shouldn't have... 'Lainie (said daughter just turned 24. How could this happen? =:-o) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:51:35 -0700 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paging Lainie! To: Cooks within the SCA Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote: <<< Hey, Laine, it seems I'm going to have access to some heirloom (the person growing them says a medieval type) sour cherries to cook with at Pennsic. I seem to remember you having a chicken recipe that uses them that you have done in camp. Would you be willing to share it with me? Brangwayna Morgan >>> That's easy it's the Crust of Tame Creatures from Platina. Cariadoc has his redaction webbed at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/tarts.html#7 . I usually just fly from the seat of the pants, depending on what I have on hand. It's tasty though! You could also make that cherry pudding stuff (called Cyrosye? Something like that) from _Curye on Inglisch_, which is incredibly yummy. My daughter won't be there to eat it behind your back, so you might actually get some! 'Lainie Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:27:30 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 14th century English banana recipe To: "Cooks within the SCA" <<< But where is the documentation on the "maraschino cherry"? Stefan >>> Maraschino is a cordial made from the pits of marasca cherries. Maraschino cherries are cherries that have been preserved in the cordial. The presence of the cordial was presumably first noted at the Zadar Dominican monastery early in the 16th Century. One of the uses for the cordial was preserving marasca cherries. Large scale commercial production of maraschino is an artifact of the 18th Century and commercial maraschino cherry production appears to be primarily 19th Century. The modern maraschino cherry was "Americanized" in the early 20th Century. Bear Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:56:55 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maraschino cherries To: "Cooks within the SCA" <<< I guess I should learn to do more quick Wikipedia searches. But it never occurred to me that "maraschino" cherries would have *any* chance of being period. It is hard enough to document any specific period cordials, but here is one. As well as evidence for preservation of at least one fruit in period in distilled alcohol. >>> I ran about six different sources, two of them off my shelf, to get a feel for the maraschino cherry. Wikipedia did provide the Zadar reference, but I haven't found any confirming sources so don't take it as gospel. While there is reference to the cordial being developed in the 16th Century and that the cordial was used to preserve the cherries at a later date, I have seen no specific evidence that the cherries were preserved in this manner prior to 1600. It is highly probable, but not proven. <<< Was wine or other non-distilled alcohol used as a preservative in period as well? I'm assuming it wouldn't be quite as good a preservative as a higher proof alcohol would be, though. >>> Wine is not a particularly good preservative as it can be attacked by bacteria. Far better to use vinegar, which is of course, wine or other fermented beverage that has been inoculated with Acetobacter bacteria. Wine can be used as a component of a preserving mixture as in jugging meat. <<< Further reading of the Wikipedia article does indicate that the stuff you get in the grocery store, labeled as "maraschino" cherries has little resemblance to the real thing, being saturated in red food coloring and having almond flavoring added. I wonder if "real" marachino cherries are still available and at what price. Once I'm employed again, perhaps I'm going to have to get some so I can compare these to what I thought were marashino cherries. Stefan >>> The varieties of cherries used in making today's maraschino cherries are sweet where the marasca cherry is sour, so there is probably a world of difference. As to getting a real maraschino cherry, Luxardo, probably the world's largest manufacturer of maraschino, packs marasca cherries in their own juice for sale at obscene mark ups. I think it is probably the closest thing to an old style maraschino cherry you can find. Bear Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:47:06 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] maraschino cherries To: "Cooks within the SCA" <<< When you say "own juice", do you mean the cherry juice? or the Maraschino cordial juice? Stefan >>> From the way they advertise it, it is the cherries own juice rather than maraschino liqueur. Bear Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:26:19 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cherry pottage, what's a #1 can? There are others of course. We index 7 in the Concordance under Cherry Pottage. One really easy way to find cherry recipes is to go to medievalcookery.com and use Doc's handy search engine. Search under cherry and then again under cherries. Results vary a bit. http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi/search.pl?term=cherry&file=all http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi/search.pl?term=cherries&file=all You didn't specify a country or time period and over time the pottage name becomes 'pudding.' This one is late but retains the pottage name. To make pottage of Cherries. Fry white bread in butter til it be brown and so put it into a dish, then take Cherries and take out the stones and frye them where you fried the bread then put thereto Sugar, Ginger, and Sinamon, for lacke of broth, take White or Claret Wine, boyle these togither, and that doon, serve them upon your Tostes. This is from A Book of Cookrye (England, 1591) ------ Johnnae Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: wheezul at canby.com To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cherry pottage, what's a #1 can? <<< PS: Also this is the only "cherry pottage" recipe I seem to have. Does anyone else have another period cherry pottage or something similar? -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra >>> Stefan, in a weird bit of synchronicity, I just did my first critical reading of Wecker's cherry 'mu?' (mush/pottage) recipes. They seem to be pretty similar in ingredients to the one you have, although some have wine and additionally some have cinnamon or ginger for spice. There's one layered affair that I'm still trying to understand with sugar/raisins, then bread, cooked cherry brew, sugar/raisins and when the bread soaks up the brew, the cooked cherries are added and finally another top layer of bread. These are then cut into strips and artfully arranged on a chafing type dish and partially covered with eggs. The dish is then cooked over boiling water (or some other food). I wonder if the eggs are absorbed into the bread or if they make the sliced cherry 'sandwiches' into a whole single mass. I think it is intended to be served as a torte-like dish so maybe it is a single mass meant to be cut into slices. Further translation will probably clarify my fuzziness. If there's any interest I'll post more. Katherine in An Tir Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:17:27 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Christiane , Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cherries was Clove defined and symbolism On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Christiane wrote: <<< And was cherry pottage actually made by Elizabethan and Jacobean cooks for noble patrons? It could have fallen out of fashion by then (though rural families and gentry might have kept making it, though they might not have been able to afford the cloves). Does anyone know if it was on any English feast menus of later periods? >>> I did a paper on cherries last summer. Recipes in the late Elizabethan and Jacobean period include To make Cherries in confection. Take ripe and chosen cherries, cut of half the stalks and put them in a frying pan over a soft fire, for every pound of Cheries strew upon them a pound of good white sugar in pouder, seeth them so till the third part be wasted, when they are sod put in a little Rosewater with a few cloves, and sinamon beaten togither, then let them coole two or three houres, and then put them into your pots. A Book of Cookrye. (England, 1591) Here again we have cloves and cinnamon being used, so apparently they really did believe cherries went with cloves. Here are a couple more: To make conserue of cherries, and other fruites. TAke halfe a pound of Cherries, & boile them dry in their own licour, and then straine them through a Hearne rale, and when you haue strained them, put in two pounde of fine beaten Suger, and boyle them together a prety while, and then put your Conserue in a pot. Dawson, Thomas. The second part of the good hus-wiues iewell. 1597. A Cherry Tart. BRuyse a pound of Cherries, and stampe them, and boyle the sirrup with Sugar. Then take the stones out of two pound: bake them in a set Coffin: Ice them, and serue them hot in to the Boorde. A Nevv Booke of Cookerie. (England, 1615) Johnna Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 16:49:51 -0400 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fwd: cherries <<< I was just out at ME Moore on Seavey loop and discovered that you can get upick bird cherries there for 15 cents a pound. It strikes me that these are a great period ingredient as they would be much closer to the type of cherries available in Medieval Europe than any commercial variety. Anyway, I came home with 11 pounds and would appreciate any suggestions on how to deal with them so they are available in the future for period recipes. I am not going to pit them individually. Martha >>> Both sweet and sour cherries are known from at least Roman times. "Sour cherry" is Prunus Cerasus, sweet cherry is Prunus avium). Definitions say Bird cherry is Prunus padus, and too sour to be used, but I wonder if she has a wild version of Prunus avium? I think the various recipes should work, but if they are very sour, she may need to add more suga Either way, for most medieval recipes, I think pie cherries might be a better choice if she can find them, but I'm sure this will be interesting. Please let us know how it goes. Rumpolt calls for two kinds of sour cherry, amarellen which have yellow flesh (may have red skins or not) and weischel which have red flesh. From Rumpolt: Zugem?? 18. Amarellen - Sour yellow cherries fried/ with a batter eingemacht*/ as mentioned before/ as one should make a batter/ and quickly fried. Zugem?? 214. Weichselmu? - Sour cherry sauce. Take cherries/ pull them away from the stems/ and wash them off/ put them in a fish kettle/ and slice bread into it/ pour water over it/ and let simmer together/ strain it through a hair cloth/ that it is nicely thick/ and put it again in a tinned fish kettle/ stir ground cinnamon bark and sugar over it/ set it on coals/ and stir well/ until it cooks/ dress it in a dish/ and when you will give it on a table/ be it cold or warm/ then sprinkle it with coated fennel/ like this it is good and well tasting. Zugeh?rung 1. Weichsel Salsen - Sour cherry sauce/ when it is cooked thick/ then one dissolves with wine and sugar/ sprinkle with coarse sugar/ like this is is good and well tasting. - this was served as a condiment with meat and poultry. Suppen 34. Take dried sour cherries/ grind it with the stone (or press out the stone?)/ strain it though with wine/ make sweet with cinnamon and sugar and let it simmer together/ like this it is a good cherry soup. Suppen 36. Take sour yellow cherries (Amarellen)/ crush them with the stone (or press out the stone?)/ they are dry or fresh/ strain it though with cinnamon and wine/ and make it well sweet/ let it simmer together/ it is good like this. Gebackens 3. Take sour cherry sauce/ and coat a wafer/ put another wafer over/ and cut small or large. Make a batter with wine and flour/ yellow it a little/ and press the other into the batter/ so that the wafers remain together/ throw into hot butter and do not burn/ give it warm on a table/ and sprinkle it with white sugar. Gebackens 15. Fried sour cherries/ fried in such a batter. (from 13. Make a batter with clean eggs or milk/ that is sweet) Gebackens 41. Make a dough with milk/ eggs/ and beautiful white flour/ put a little beer year in it/ and make a good dough/ that is not completely stiff/ and do not over salt it/ set it to the warm/ that it nicely risen/ punch it down on a clean board/ and do little black raisins around it/ make strutzel from it/ throw it in hot butter/ and fry/ like this it will nicely puff up/ give cold or warm on a table/ sprinkle it with sugar/ like this it is a good pastry. Gebackens 42. Take such a dough/ and drive it out/ wrap sour cherry sauce in it/ cut up with the wheel/ throw in butter/ and fry/ give warm on a table/ and sprinkle it with white sugar/ like this it is a good fritter of sour cherry sauce/ You might make such a fritter from various sauces. Confect 6. Sour cherry confect with water/ that the broth becomes nicely thick/ and the cherries set out in a dish/ pour the broth over the cherries/ and let become cold. You can also well preserve in a round box/ and pour the broth over the top/ that the stems go nicely over themselves/ be it in the dish or in the box/ like this it is also good. Eyngemachten 2. Amarellensafft. Sour yellow cherry juice (or candy). Take cherries/ that are nicely red/ tear the stems off/ and wash them clean/ set on (the fire) in a clean fish kettle/ and let come to a simmer/ like this it gives a juice from itself/ put them in a sack/ and press out/ take a clean fish kettle or a clean pot/ put a little sugar in it/ and let simmer together/ until becomes thick/ until it becomes thick/ which you think such to pour in a mold/ and from the mold to put in a box. If you however would have it sweet/ then you might take even more sugar. If you would like to have it sour/ then take even less sugar/ so it becomes good and elegant. Safft usually means juice, but this is a solid that is shaped into subtleties. Eyngemachten 9. Take yellow sour cherries/ and take the stone out/ and spread them through (a sieve)/ put them in a syrup/ that is well boiled/ stir up/ that it does not burn/ and let simmer/ until you think/ that it has enough/ put it in a box/ like this it is a good preserve/ is nicely yellow and sour/ may sugar or not. Sharon