berries-msg - 8/17/09 ਀ഊPeriod berries and berry recipes. strawberry, whortleberry, raspberry, lingonberry, cranberry, gooseberry, currants, blackberry, blueberry. ਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: grapes-msg, cherries-msg, marmalades-msg, fruits-msg, fruit-pears-msg, apples-msg, beverages-msg, fruit-pies-msg. ਀ഊ************************************************************************ ਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀  栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀  栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀  愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀  漀昀  攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀  眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀  眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀  眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀  渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀  愀猀  琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀  漀昀  琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  最椀瘀攀渀  戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀  爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀  愀渀搀  攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀  琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀  琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀  挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀  漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀  椀猀  甀渀挀氀攀愀爀  愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀  椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  椀猀  瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀  昀爀漀洀  琀栀攀猀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous ਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************ ਀ഊFrom: ercil at astrid.upland.ca.us (Ercil C. Howard-Wroth) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Mulled Wine Receipe ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㜀 伀挀琀 㤀㔀 ㄀㄀㨀㄀㘀㨀㄀㠀 倀䐀吀ഊ ਀唀䐀匀䐀　　㜀 愀琀 䐀匀䤀䈀䴀⸀伀䬀䰀䄀䐀伀吀⸀匀吀䄀吀䔀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀 ⠀䴀椀欀攀⸀䄀渀搀爀攀眀猀⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ>priest at vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) writes: ਀㸀㸀⠀倀⸀匀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 漀昀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 伀氀搀 圀漀爀氀搀Ⰰഊ>>I believe, only I think they call it something else....) ਀㸀ഊ>Lingonberry; it's native to Sweden, I believe -- and maybe other ਀㸀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀⼀䈀愀氀琀椀挀 挀漀甀渀琀爀椀攀猀⸀ 䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀爀攀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀ഊ>to be good on meats, according to the text on the jar I have. ਀㸀ഊ>udsd007 at dsibm.okladot.state.ok.us ਀㸀䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 䘀攀渀眀椀挀欀 漀昀 䘀漀琀栀攀爀椀渀最栀愀礀Ⰰ 伀⸀䰀⸀ ⠀䴀椀欀攀 䄀渀搀爀攀眀猀⤀  一愀洀爀漀渀Ⰰ 䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀ഊ>Pray, I beseech you, for the repose of the soul of ਀㸀䬀愀琀栀氀攀攀渀 䄀渀渀愀 夀漀甀渀最 䰀椀猀琀攀爀Ⰰ 漀渀挀攀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 䈀愀爀漀渀攀猀猀 䌀愀椀琀氀椀渀ഊ ਀䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀洀⸀⸀⸀ 搀攀氀椀挀椀漀甀猀⸀  䤀渀 䄀甀猀琀爀椀愀 琀栀攀礀ഊhave them and make a wonderful (extremely alcoholic) sweet fruit wine. ਀ഊPhonetically I remember it as `Ree - Bee - zal' wine So sorry not to ਀爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 椀琀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀爀攀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 漀渀 洀攀愀琀Ⰰ 戀爀攀愀搀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀椀渀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀琀 猀攀攀渀 ഊthem, but looked hard for them in France. They may be an old northern ਀眀漀爀氀搀 琀爀攀愀琀⸀ഊ ਀                                         䄀猀琀爀椀搀栀爀 匀攀氀爀 䰀攀椀昀猀搀漀琀琀椀爀ഊ E. Howard-Wroth ਀  ഊercil at astrid.upland.ca.us Shire of Heatherwyne ਀⸀⸀⸀甀甀渀攀琀℀愀猀琀爀椀搀℀攀爀挀椀氀                                䬀椀渀最搀漀洀 漀昀 䌀愀椀搀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: zoeholbr at rs6a.wln.com (M Zoe Holbrooks) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Mulled Wine Receipe ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㠀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㈀　㨀㌀㤀㨀㌀㌀ 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: WLN ਀ഊ: Lingonberry preserves are wonderful on meat, bread, plain. I have not seen ਀㨀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 栀愀爀搀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 䘀爀愀渀挀攀⸀  吀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀渀 漀氀搀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀ഊ: world treat. ਀ഊLook for lingonberry preserves in Scandinavian delicatessens and some ਀最爀漀挀攀爀椀攀猀 椀渀 愀爀攀愀猀 琀栀愀琀 猀攀爀瘀攀 ⠀漀爀 漀渀挀攀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀⤀ 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀⸀  ഊIt's very easy to find in Seattle, for example, because of the early ਀椀洀洀椀最爀愀琀椀漀渀愀 搀渀 猀攀琀琀氀攀洀攀渀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 琀漀眀渀 戀礀 一漀爀眀攀最椀愀渀Ⰰ 匀眀攀搀椀猀栀 愀渀搀 䘀椀渀渀椀猀栀 ഊfolks, among others. I've seen them in several foodie mail order ਀挀愀琀愀氀漀最猀Ⰰ 愀氀猀漀⸀ഊ ਀䄀猀愀栀氀愀 吀攀氀攀爀椀漀渀 ഊBarony of Madrone, Kingdom of An Tir ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䜀爀攀最 䰀椀渀搀愀栀氀∀ 㰀氀椀渀搀愀栀氀 愀琀 瀀戀洀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊDate: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:42:08 -0400 (EDT) ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 儀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀㼀㼀ഊ ਀㸀 䤀 愀洀 椀渀 渀攀攀搀 漀昀 猀漀洀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀椀渀最 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ> Are they : 1) Period? ਀㸀                     ㈀⤀ 伀氀搀 眀漀爀氀搀Ⰰ 渀攀眀 眀漀爀氀搀 漀爀 戀漀琀栀㼀ഊ> 3) If period/ old world, where may I find the ਀㸀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀 琀栀椀猀㼀ഊ ਀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀 栀愀猀 琀栀椀猀 琀漀 猀愀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䴀椀猀挀攀氀氀愀渀礀⸀ 唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀 戀攀猀椀搀攀 䴀挀䜀攀攀ഊthere are the words "add cite here"... ah, the cite is in the next ਀瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 漀渀ⴀ氀椀渀攀 礀攀琀㨀ഊ ਀䴀挀䜀攀攀Ⰰ 䠀愀爀漀氀搀Ⰰ 开伀渀 䘀漀漀搀 愀渀搀 䌀漀漀欀椀渀最㨀 吀栀攀 匀挀椀攀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 䰀漀爀攀 漀昀ഊthe Kitchen_ , Consumer's Union, Mt. Vernon, N.Y. 1984. ਀ഊAnyway, here's Cariadoc's comment: ਀ഊBlueberry and Cranberry ਀ഊIt appears from comments by Simmons that the term "blueberry" describes a ਀渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最攀渀甀猀 㰀椀㸀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀㰀⼀椀㸀㬀 琀栀攀ഊbilberry, which is a member of the same genus, is Old World. The blueberry ਀瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀猀 ∀氀愀爀最攀爀 愀渀搀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀⸀∀ഊAccording to McGee, "The cultivated blueberry, a native of the American east, ਀渀漀爀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀漀爀琀栀眀攀猀琀Ⰰ 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀氀礀 戀爀攀搀 漀渀氀礀 猀椀渀挀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㤀㄀　 ⸀⸀⸀ ⸀∀㰀瀀㸀ഊ ਀䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 䴀挀䜀攀攀Ⰰ 䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀氀猀漀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 漀昀 㰀椀㸀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀㰀⼀椀㸀⸀ 䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最ഊto several earlier sources, there is disagreement as to whether they are ਀洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀 㰀椀㸀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀㰀⼀椀㸀 漀爀 戀攀氀漀渀最 椀渀 愀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 最攀渀甀猀Ⰰ 㰀椀㸀伀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀㰀⼀椀㸀⸀ഊThere are both old world and new world cranberries, but "the commercial ਀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 ⸀⸀⸀ 椀猀 愀渀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀⸀∀ ⠀䴀挀䜀攀攀⤀ 吀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 ∀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀∀ 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀ഊhave come into use with the new world variant of the berry.

਀ഊIt sounds, in both cases, as though a jelly made from modern berries would ਀挀漀爀爀攀猀瀀漀渀搀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 挀氀漀猀攀氀礀 琀漀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 洀椀最栀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 攀愀琀攀渀 椀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 椀渀ഊperiod, but individual berries would look noticably different from their old ਀眀漀爀氀搀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀猀⸀ 圀攀 搀漀 渀漀琀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 愀渀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 甀猀椀渀最 攀椀琀栀攀爀ഊberry.

਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀愀爀 䰀攀椀樀漀渀栀甀昀瘀甀搀 㰀瀀愀爀氀攀椀 愀琀 欀椀⸀猀攀㸀ഊDate: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:57:00 +0200 (METDST) ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䈀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀伀渀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㄀ 䴀愀礀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀Ⰰ 䴀椀挀栀愀攀氀 䘀⸀ 䜀甀渀琀攀爀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> ligonberries so beloved by my Nordic cousins? They are quite similar to ਀㸀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 洀愀渀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⸀  䄀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 愀 氀愀琀攀爀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 ഊ ਀䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 漀昀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀⸀ഊ ਀⼀唀氀昀刀ഊPar Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se ਀ഊ ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䈀䜀 ⴀ 䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀椀漀渀猀ഊDate: Mon, 08 Dec 97 11:22:01 MST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀一⸀ 吀愀琀樀愀渀愀 挀⸀ 匀栀攀瀀瀀攀爀搀∀ 㰀瀀漀渀礀最椀爀氀 愀琀 栀漀洀攀⸀愀挀琀氀愀戀⸀甀琀攀砀愀猀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊTo: bryn-gwlad at Ansteorra.ORG ਀ഊFrom: Fox Purtill : ਀㸀      䬀愀爀椀渀 栀愀猀 昀漀甀渀搀 猀漀洀攀 漀氀搀 匀眀攀搀椀猀栀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ> specifically from the 1100's. Apparently the ones they have are ਀㸀      搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 ⠀洀漀爀攀 琀愀爀琀 洀漀猀琀氀礀⤀ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀礀 搀漀渀✀琀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀 琀栀攀洀⸀  䰀椀欀攀ഊ> their blueberries they are smaller and grow wild. Linguns(sp?) are ਀㸀      爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀琀琀愀挀栀攀搀 ⠀愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 愀渀ഊ> Americanism) and are bead sized versions of the cranberry, they tend ਀㸀      琀漀 戀攀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀 猀眀攀攀琀攀爀 漀瘀攀爀愀氀氀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 挀氀漀猀攀 挀漀甀猀椀渀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 洀礀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 挀氀漀猀攀氀礀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 琀漀ഊJohannesberen or the English currants commonly found in the ਀匀栀攀琀氀愀渀搀猀Ⰰ 伀爀欀渀攀礀猀 愀渀搀 匀挀愀渀搀愀渀愀瘀椀愀⸀ 匀洀愀氀氀 ☀ 琀愀爀琀 愀渀搀 氀漀瘀攀搀 戀礀 匀栀攀琀氀愀渀搀ഊponies and children (as well as the rest of us). ਀ഊSuannoch ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ 　㌀ 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀　㨀㈀㌀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Philip & Susan Troy ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀礀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀㸀 䤀 眀愀猀 眀愀氀欀椀渀最 栀漀洀攀 昀爀漀洀 眀漀爀欀 琀漀搀愀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 猀愀眀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 漀氀搀 眀漀爀氀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 琀栀愀琀ഊ> was horribly sweet and ripe. So now I am looking for a period jam method. ਀㸀 䤀昀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 眀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀漀 猀栀愀爀攀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 眀椀氀氀椀渀最 琀漀 攀愀琀 愀 瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀ഊ> toast with Mulberry jam for them... ਀㸀ഊ> Thanks in advance, ਀㸀 䈀漀最搀愀渀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 甀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀 琀爀甀琀栀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 昀攀眀 漀爀 渀漀 樀愀洀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀ഊof any kind, from "period". There are a few for preserves that are more ਀氀椀欀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 挀栀攀攀猀攀猀 漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀洀 渀漀琀 愀眀愀爀攀 漀昀 愀渀礀 昀漀爀ഊmulberries. I seem to recall a mulberry pyment (yes, I know a pyment ਀眀漀甀氀搀 渀漀爀洀愀氀氀礀 椀渀瘀漀氀瘀攀 最爀愀瀀攀猀⤀ 洀攀愀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀洀 戀攀椀渀最 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 愀ഊpottage somewhere, probably one of those 15th century English sources. ਀䤀✀氀氀 猀攀攀 眀栀愀琀 䤀 挀愀渀 昀椀渀搀⸀ഊ ਀䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 03 Jun 98 16:40:11 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 甀瀀猀砀搀氀猀 愀琀 漀欀眀愀礀⸀漀欀猀琀愀琀攀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re[2]: SC - a question ਀ഊ>If it works for respis (raspberries) it should work for mulberries. How lucky ਀㸀礀漀甀 愀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀 樀愀洀⸀ 吀栀攀 栀漀甀猀攀 眀栀攀爀攀 䤀 最爀攀眀 甀瀀 栀愀搀 愀ഊ>mulberry tree and we used to love the berries it produced. None ever lasted ਀㸀氀漀渀最 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 樀愀洀Ⰰ 琀栀漀⸀ഊ ਀㸀刀攀渀愀琀愀ഊ ਀     䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 欀攀攀瀀 椀渀 洀椀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 栀椀最栀攀爀 眀愀琀攀爀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀 愀渀搀 氀漀眀攀爀ഊ natural pectin content than raspberries. A bit more sugar or longer ਀     挀漀漀欀椀渀最 洀愀礀 戀攀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀 琀漀 爀攀搀甀挀攀 琀栀攀 洀椀砀⸀  䄀琀 洀礀 栀漀甀猀攀Ⰰ 愀渀礀 甀渀猀攀琀 樀愀洀ഊ becomes wonderful pancake syrup! ਀ഊ Leah Anna of Sparrowhaven ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㜀 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 　㤀㨀㔀　㨀㈀㔀 ⬀　㈀　　 ⠀䴀䔀吀 䐀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Par Leijonhufvud ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䨀攀氀氀椀攀猀 瘀猀⸀ 愀猀瀀椀挀猀ഊ ਀伀渀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 㘀 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 最攀渀攀瘀椀愀洀漀愀猀 愀琀 樀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> necessary to make jellies to do this or would they have prepared them ਀㸀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀愀礀 昀漀爀 猀琀漀爀愀最攀㼀 䤀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 洀攀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀洀攀渀琀 眀椀琀栀ഊ ਀圀攀氀氀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 漀渀攀 戀攀爀爀礀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 猀椀洀瀀氀椀挀椀琀礀 椀琀猀攀氀昀 琀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀㨀ഊsimply place in a closed container with plain water. It's the ਀氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 ⠀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 瘀椀琀椀猀ⴀ椀搀攀愀⤀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀猀 攀渀漀甀最栀 戀攀渀稀漀椀挀 愀挀椀搀ഊto preserve themselves. Nice, if rather tart for most peoples taste. It ਀椀猀 愀氀猀漀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀眀攀愀琀攀爀 眀椀氀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀㘀㘀㘀 最⼀欀最 猀甀最愀爀猀 ⠀搀爀礀 眀攀椀最栀琀⤀Ⰰഊwith 85% water in the fresh berry). ਀ഊNo idea if it was done in the middle ages, just that the method is ਀漀氀搀椀猀栀 ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 昀攀眀 栀甀渀搀爀攀搀 礀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 䤀䤀刀䌀⤀⸀ഊ ਀⼀唀氀昀刀ഊ- -- ਀倀愀爀 䰀攀椀樀漀渀栀甀昀瘀甀搀                           瀀愀爀氀攀椀⠀愀琀⤀愀氀最漀渀攀琀⸀猀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:35:02 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 吀䠀䰀刀攀渀愀琀愀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: SC - Re: SC- gooseberries ਀ഊAnn Marie writes: ਀㸀㸀䜀漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ 䘀椀渀搀 洀攀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 ⠀瀀爀椀洀愀爀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀渀氀礀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀⤀ 琀栀愀琀 甀猀攀猀ഊthem.<< ਀ഊEleanor Fettiplace has several recipes for preserving gooseberries. Granted ਀猀栀攀 眀愀猀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 猀栀攀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 椀昀 猀栀攀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀ഊa use for them. I look thru the book again and see if I can find a "use" ਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀ഊ ਀刀攀渀愀琀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:00:09 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 吀䠀䰀刀攀渀愀琀愀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: SC - Re: SC- gooseberries ਀ഊWhen the debate on which century Eleanor Fettiplace belongs in continues, I ਀栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 ㈀ 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 栀攀爀 戀漀漀欀 眀栀攀爀攀  最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀渀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀㨀ഊ ਀吀漀 䈀漀椀氀攀 䌀栀椀挀欀椀渀猀ഊ ਀吀愀欀攀 愀 最漀漀搀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀氀 漀昀 瀀愀爀猀攀氀椀攀Ⰰ 瀀椀挀欀 椀琀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ ☀ 愀 最漀漀搀 栀愀渀搀昀甀氀氀 漀昀ഊgooseberries, & a pretie quanitie of tyme, mince it small, & three large mace, ਀☀ 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀猀攀 愀氀氀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 椀渀 愀 搀椀猀栀Ⰰ ☀ 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀Ⰰ ☀ 猀愀氀琀Ⰰ ☀ 栀愀氀昀 愀 瀀椀渀琀攀ഊof white wine, &some broth that the chicken were boiled in, & a piece of sweet ਀戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ ☀ 氀攀琀 椀琀 戀漀椀氀攀 栀愀氀昀攀 愀渀 栀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ ☀ 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 挀栀椀挀欀椀渀猀 愀爀攀 戀渀漀椀氀攀搀 椀渀漀甀最栀Ⰰഊput that broth to them, & serve them; put some sugar into it. ਀ഊTo Butter Gooseberries ਀ഊTake your gooseberries before they are ripe, & put them in a dish with a good ਀瀀椀攀挀攀 漀昀 猀眀攀攀琀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 挀漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀洀 挀氀漀猀攀 ☀ 氀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 戀漀礀氀攀 琀椀氀氀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀最椀渀 琀漀ഊbreak, then stirre them till they bee all broken, then put in some sugar to ਀琀栀攀洀 ☀ 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀 ☀ 琀栀攀 礀攀氀欀猀 漀昀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 戀攀愀琀攀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 猀琀椀爀爀攀 椀琀 愀氀琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀Ⰰ ☀ഊserve it upon sippets. ਀ഊRenata ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀ 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㔀㨀㈀㌀㨀　　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⬀ 樀攀氀氀礀ഊ ਀㸀㸀䜀漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀   䘀椀渀搀 洀攀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 ⠀瀀爀椀洀愀爀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀渀氀礀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀⤀ഊthat uses them.<< ਀ഊI was looking through some of my books for your sauce, as I did not ਀爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 猀攀攀椀渀最 漀渀攀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 搀椀搀 洀礀 猀愀甀挀攀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀⸀  匀琀椀氀氀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀 昀椀渀搀 愀渀礀ഊgooseberry sauce, (Yes! See below) but have come across 'gelee of ਀最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀✀ 椀渀 开吀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 䌀漀漀欀开Ⰰ 䘀爀愀渀挀椀猀 搀攀䰀愀嘀愀爀攀渀渀攀Ⰰ ㄀㘀㔀㌀⸀  吀栀椀猀 椀猀ഊout of our period, but as we recently had a thread on jellies, I thought ਀椀琀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最⸀  䤀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀氀攀愀爀 樀攀氀氀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 洀攀愀琀 愀渀搀 昀椀猀栀 戀愀猀攀搀 愀渀搀ഊjust 50 years later, the clear fruit jellies that we know are being ਀瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀⸀  刀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀礀 樀攀氀氀礀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 眀愀礀⸀  伀伀倀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 琀漀 戀攀 愀ഊ'spoon tease', here it is: ਀ഊHow to make gelee of gooseberries. Take some gooseberries, press them, ਀愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀椀渀 琀栀攀洀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 渀愀瀀欀椀渀㬀 洀攀愀猀甀爀攀 礀漀甀爀 樀甀椀挀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 渀攀愀爀 甀瀀漀渀ഊthree quarters of sugar to one quart of juice; seeth it before you mixe ਀椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀攀攀琀栀 愀最愀椀渀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀㬀 愀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 洀椀砀攀搀Ⰰ 琀爀礀 琀栀攀洀 漀渀 愀 瀀氀愀琀攀Ⰰഊand you shall know that it is enough, when it riseth off. That of ਀刀愀猀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 眀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 昀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀猀椀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 愀 氀愀琀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀愀猀琀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀ഊgooseberry verjuice, everybody seems to have preserved them and nobody ਀愀琀攀 琀栀攀洀℀  圀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 䈀爀椀琀 洀甀猀攀甀洀 挀漀渀琀椀渀甀攀猀 攀砀挀愀瘀愀琀椀渀最 䰀漀渀搀漀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 眀椀氀氀ഊsurely find many, many pots of preserved gooseberries! Could it be that ਀猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 瀀愀猀琀攀 椀渀 愀 爀愀椀渀礀 猀甀洀洀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 搀爀礀 漀甀琀㼀ഊ"Here, eat this anyhow" "I can't pick it up!" "Well, put it on some ਀戀爀攀愀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀∀  ∀伀栀Ⰰ 戀漀礀℀∀ഊ ਀䄀猀 愀渀 愀渀琀攀挀攀搀攀渀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 洀愀挀欀攀爀愀氀⼀最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀礀 挀漀洀戀漀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 昀椀猀栀 猀愀甀挀攀猀 愀爀攀ഊdefinately tart: they contain sorrell, lemon and other piquant tastes, so ਀礀漀甀爀 挀漀洀戀漀 椀渀 椀渀 氀椀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 瀀爀攀瘀愀椀氀椀渀最 琀愀猀琀攀猀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 渀漀琀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀ഊdocumentable. Fruit jellies are so popular with meats in Europe, that ਀琀愀爀琀 樀攀氀氀椀攀猀 洀愀礀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 栀愀瘀攀 琀愀欀攀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 漀昀 琀愀爀琀 猀愀甀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䨀攀昀昀 猀愀礀猀 琀栀愀琀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 瀀爀椀挀欀氀礀⸀  䐀漀 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀挀欀氀攀猀 眀愀猀栀ഊoff? Do they cook down to be non-prickly? Our landlord grew them, but I ਀渀攀瘀攀爀 栀愀渀搀氀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀  圀漀甀氀搀 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀挀欀氀攀猀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 洀漀爀攀 漀爀 氀攀猀猀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 琀漀ഊappear in sauces, jellies, etc.? ਀ഊWhoa!!! Hold!!! Just found something else in LaVarenne! ਀ഊ62. Fresh mackerells rosted. Rost them with fennell, after they are ਀爀漀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀瀀攀渀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 漀昀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀渀攀㬀 琀栀攀渀 洀愀欀攀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀愀甀挀攀 眀椀琀栀ഊbutter, parsley, and gooseberries, all well seasoned; stove a very little ਀礀漀甀爀 洀愀挀欀攀爀攀氀氀猀 眀椀琀栀 礀漀甀爀 猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 猀攀爀瘀攀⸀ഊ ਀䠀愀瘀攀 樀甀猀琀 最氀愀渀挀攀搀 愀琀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 栀攀爀 昀椀猀栀 猀愀甀挀攀猀㬀 渀漀渀攀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 挀爀攀愀洀ഊor milk added, yet. Is 'short broth' a reduced cooking liquid, do you ਀琀栀椀渀欀㼀ഊ ਀䄀氀氀椀猀漀渀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:36:04 +0100 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀夀攀氀搀栀愀洀Ⰰ 䌀愀爀漀氀椀渀攀 匀∀ 㰀挀猀礀㈀　㘀㠀㠀 愀琀 䜀氀愀砀漀圀攀氀氀挀漀洀攀⸀挀漀⸀甀欀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Re: gooseberries + jelly ਀ഊEnglish gooseberries have prickles (on the berries, they also have ਀瀀爀椀挀欀氀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀氀欀猀 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 琀漀甀最栀攀爀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 氀椀欀攀 栀愀椀爀猀Ⰰഊwon't damage you in handling and disappear in cooking - they don't need ਀爀攀洀漀瘀椀渀最⸀  吀栀攀礀 搀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀琀愀氀欀 愀琀 漀渀攀 攀渀搀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀椀爀礀 戀椀琀 愀琀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊwhich need removing (unless you are going to sieve the cooked ਀最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⤀ ⴀ 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ✀琀漀瀀 愀渀搀 琀愀椀氀椀渀最✀ 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀⸀ഊ ਀䰀漀瘀攀氀礀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 漀昀 洀礀 昀愀瘀漀甀爀椀琀攀猀⸀  䔀愀琀攀渀 最爀攀攀渀 椀渀 䨀甀渀攀 愀渀搀 䨀甀氀礀 琀栀攀礀ഊhave a tart flavour which goes very well with elderflowers, makes a ਀眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 昀漀漀氀Ⰰ 漀爀 琀愀爀琀 漀爀 挀爀甀洀戀氀攀⸀  䈀攀爀爀椀攀猀 氀攀昀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀甀猀栀 琀漀 䄀甀最甀猀琀ഊturn golden or red and become very sweet. ਀ഊI've never been very fond of gooseberry jam, as too much sugar kills the ਀昀氀愀瘀漀甀爀 ⠀戀甀琀 琀栀攀渀 䤀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 漀昀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 昀爀甀椀琀⤀Ⰰ 猀漀 琀栀愀琀ഊmight be why Bogdan's grandfather didn't like it! ਀ഊCaroline ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㠀 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㠀㨀㌀㠀㨀㐀㠀 ⬀㄀　　　 ⠀䔀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: "GARY.J LUCKMAN" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊMulberries are delicious. ਀䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 戀攀猀琀 攀愀琀攀渀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 琀甀爀渀攀搀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 瀀甀爀瀀氀礀 戀氀愀挀欀ഊand are almost squashy. ਀䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 漀渀攀 漀昀 洀礀 瘀攀爀礀 ⨀昀愀瘀漀甀爀椀琀攀⨀ 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀 昀漀漀搀℀ഊ(Who didn't guess that? :-) ਀ഊMulberry tart is very easy, just using a sweet shortcrust, layering ਀洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 椀琀 椀渀 愀 洀攀搀椀甀洀 漀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀ഊfresh double cream. ਀ഊOr mulberry sponge, mulberry muffins (decrease the liquid in the recipe ਀漀爀 琀栀攀礀✀氀氀 戀攀 洀甀猀栀礀 洀甀昀昀椀渀猀⤀⸀  䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀礀 椀挀攀 挀爀攀愀洀Ⰰ 栀漀琀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀 琀漀ഊserve with ice cream. Can I come over to visit, please? ਀ഊSorry I don't have access to any period recipes right here. My only wish ਀椀猀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 攀渀樀漀礀 琀栀攀洀℀ഊ ਀䌀栀攀攀爀猀ഊRakhel Petrovna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㠀 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㈀㨀㔀㘀㨀㔀㘀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Philip & Susan Troy ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀㸀䘀爀漀洀 䴀匀 䐀Ⰰ 昀昀⸀ 㠀㘀爀ⴀ㤀㘀瘀Ⰰ 愀氀猀漀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 䐀椀甀攀爀猀愀 匀攀爀瘀椀挀椀愀 琀漀 琀栀漀猀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀ഊwho own a copy of Curye On Inglysch: ਀ഊ"37 For to make murrey, tak mulbery & bray hem in a morter and wryng hem ਀⠀琀栀⤀漀爀栀 愀 挀氀漀⠀琀栀⤀Ⰰ ☀ 搀漀 栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 瀀漀琀 漀甀攀爀 ⠀琀栀⤀攀 昀礀爀攀㬀 ☀ 搀漀 ⠀琀栀⤀攀爀琀漀 戀爀攀搀ഊ& wyte gresse, & let yt na(gh)t boyle non ofter (th)an onys. & do ਀⠀琀栀⤀攀爀琀漀 愀 最漀搀 瀀攀爀琀礀 漀昀 猀甀最甀爀Ⰰ ☀ ⠀礀⤀椀昀 礀琀 戀攀 渀漀⠀最栀⤀琀 礀渀漀眀攀 礀挀漀氀漀眀爀搀 戀爀攀礀ഊmulburus; serue yt for(th)e." ਀ഊ[For to make murrey, Take mulberries and crush them in a mortar, and ਀眀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 挀氀漀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀 瀀甀爀攀攀 椀渀 愀 瀀漀琀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀Ⰰഊand add bread and lard, and let it come to a boil no more than once. Add ਀愀 最漀漀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀漀爀 椀猀渀✀琀 戀爀椀最栀琀 攀渀漀甀最栀 愀搀搀 洀漀爀攀ഊcrushed mulberries (as a garnish); and serve.] ਀ഊThis is presumably the same as the plethora of other pottages that are ਀攀椀琀栀攀爀 攀愀琀攀渀 愀氀漀渀攀 愀猀 愀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 猀漀甀瀀Ⰰ 瀀漀爀爀椀搀最攀Ⰰ 漀爀 瀀甀搀搀椀渀最Ⰰ 搀攀瀀攀渀搀椀渀最 漀渀ഊhow thick you like them, or as a sauce for chunked roast meat, eaten ਀昀爀漀洀 愀 戀漀眀氀 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀瀀漀漀渀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 猀愀洀攀 戀愀猀椀挀 搀椀猀栀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀ഊstrawberries, cherries, plums, roses, hawthorn flowers, and others. ਀ഊSome versions call for rice flour instead of bread, and some call for ਀琀栀攀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 猀漀洀攀 眀椀渀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀 最爀攀愀琀 栀攀氀瀀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 攀愀琀攀渀ഊas a sauce for meat. ਀ഊHappy berry-picking! ਀ഊAdamantius ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㠀 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㔀㨀㐀㌀㨀㄀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Marilyn Traber ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 搀攀昀椀渀椀琀攀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 琀栀攀 䌀漀渀焀甀攀爀漀爀✀猀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 戀攀瘀攀爀愀最攀 眀愀猀 愀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀礀 洀攀愀搀 嬀䴀愀砀 䔀氀最椀渀✀猀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 戀爀攀眀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 漀甀爀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 最漀琀 攀愀琀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 戀椀爀搀猀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 栀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 挀漀洀攀 漀甀琀 愀渀搀 瀀椀挀欀 琀栀攀洀 㨀ⴀ⠀崀ഊmargali ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㄀ 䨀愀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㔀㨀㈀㐀㨀㌀㄀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ ㄀㐀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䘀漀漀搀ഊ ਀㸀 圀攀 眀攀爀攀 樀甀猀琀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 琀栀椀猀 眀攀攀欀 愀戀漀甀琀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀  䤀 愀洀ഊ> led to believe that they are a hybrid from this century. ??? ਀㸀       䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀渀愀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀礀 ⠀刀甀戀甀猀 椀搀愀攀甀猀⤀ 椀猀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 昀漀爀攀猀琀猀 漀昀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀ⰀഊAsia, and America. The North American raspberry is the variant strigosus. ਀吀栀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀礀 眀愀猀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ഊCommercial raspberries have been hybridized to resist various plant ਀搀椀猀攀愀猀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀 ⠀刀甀戀甀猀 漀挀挀椀搀攀渀琀愀氀椀猀⤀ 椀猀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀Ⰰഊhowever the term blackberry has been used to describe the dark colored fruit ਀漀昀 漀琀栀攀爀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最攀渀甀猀 刀甀戀甀猀⸀ഊ ਀刀⸀椀搀愀攀甀猀 愀渀搀 刀⸀ 漀挀挀椀搀攀渀琀愀氀椀猀 挀愀渀 戀攀 挀爀漀猀猀 戀爀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:45:54 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - 14th Century Food ਀ഊ> >The blackberry (Rubus occidentalis) is native to Eastern North America, ਀㸀 㸀栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀 琀栀攀 搀愀爀欀 挀漀氀漀爀攀搀ഊ> >fruit of other members of the genus Rubus. ਀㸀ഊ> Is this the same as the "bramble" also? ਀㸀 䔀氀礀猀愀渀琀ഊ ਀䈀爀愀洀戀氀攀 椀猀 愀 琀攀爀洀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀搀 琀漀 愀氀氀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀 刀甀戀甀猀 愀渀搀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀ഊdescribes a number of plants growing together. So raspberries, ਀戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 氀漀最愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 搀攀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ 愀爀攀 愀氀氀 戀爀愀洀戀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀渀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 甀猀愀最攀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 挀漀瘀攀爀猀 愀渀礀 瀀爀椀挀欀氀礀 漀爀 琀栀漀爀渀礀 戀甀猀栀 漀爀 瀀氀愀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:34:51 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Summertime Cerulean Blue Sauce ਀ഊ> Could you possibly advise on the botanical name of these blackberries? ਀㸀ഊ> Mari de Paxford ਀㸀 ⠀䴀攀氀椀漀爀愀✀猀 ∀漀琀栀攀爀 瀀漀爀琀愀戀氀攀 戀爀愀椀渀∀⤀ഊ ਀䤀 搀椀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 猀攀愀爀挀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀 挀愀洀攀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀⸀  圀栀愀琀 眀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊU.S. call blackberries are actually black raspberries. They do exude a dark ਀戀氀甀攀 樀甀椀挀攀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 琀愀猀琀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀ഊin recent times. ਀ഊRubus idaeus, which is definitely a red raspberry, is the only European ਀洀攀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 最爀漀甀瀀⸀  吀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 瘀愀爀椀愀渀琀 椀猀 刀⸀ 椀搀愀攀甀猀 瘀愀爀⸀ 猀琀爀椀最漀猀甀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 瀀爀椀洀愀爀礀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 刀⸀ 漀挀挀椀搀攀渀琀愀氀椀猀 ⠀䄀䬀䄀 戀氀愀挀欀挀愀瀀ഊor thimbleberry) and R. leucodeamis (AKA western black raspberry). ਀ഊRight now, I'm wondering if the blackberry of the recipe may not be a black ਀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:10:08 -0000 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀㴀㼀椀猀漀ⴀ㠀㠀㔀㤀ⴀ㄀㼀儀㼀一愀渀渀愀开刀㴀䘀㘀最渀瘀愀氀搀愀爀搀㴀䘀㌀琀琀椀爀㼀㴀∀ 㰀渀愀渀渀愀爀 愀琀 椀猀栀漀氀昀⸀椀猀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Summertime Cerulean Blue Sauce ਀ഊ>The comment about black currants is purely speculative and whimsical. If ਀㸀爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀昀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 ⠀最攀渀甀猀 嘀椀琀椀猀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 搀椀搀 琀栀攀礀 挀愀氀氀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ>(genus Ribes)? ਀ഊNothing much, it seems. To quote John Ayto: ਀ഊ"... but when various fruit bushes of the genus Ribes were introduced into ਀䈀爀椀琀愀椀渀 昀爀漀洀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 猀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀ഊmisconception arose that the familiar dried currants were made from their ਀昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 眀愀猀 琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀搀愀礀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 戀氀愀挀欀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰഊredcurrants, etc. ... One of the first references to them in English is made ਀椀渀 一椀攀眀攀 䠀攀爀戀愀氀氀 漀爀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀攀 漀昀 倀氀愀渀琀攀猀 ⠀㄀㔀㜀㠀⤀ 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀搀 戀礀 䠀攀渀爀礀 䰀礀琀攀 眀栀漀Ⰰഊrealizing that they are members of the gooseberry family, calls them ਀∀戀攀礀漀渀搀ⴀ猀攀愀猀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀∀⸀ 䈀甀琀 栀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 昀漀爀戀攀愀爀 琀漀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊname "currant" was already catching on - "bastard currants", was his term. ਀䄀琀 昀椀爀猀琀 瀀甀爀椀猀琀猀Ⰰ 氀椀渀最甀椀猀琀椀挀 愀渀搀 栀漀爀琀椀挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀Ⰰ 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 搀椀猀挀漀甀爀愀最攀 琀栀攀ഊusage - John Gerard disapproved of it, and John Parkinson wrote, in A Garden ਀漀昀 䘀氀漀眀攀爀猀 ⠀㄀㘀㈀㤀⤀㨀 ∀吀栀漀猀攀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⸀⸀⸀ 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀ഊthose currans ... that are sold at the Grocers" - but by the late ਀猀攀瘀攀渀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 椀琀 栀愀搀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 昀椀爀洀氀礀 攀猀琀愀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀⸀∀ഊ ਀一愀渀渀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:26:50 -0000 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀㴀㼀椀猀漀ⴀ㠀㠀㔀㤀ⴀ㄀㼀儀㼀一愀渀渀愀开刀㴀䘀㘀最渀瘀愀氀搀愀爀搀㴀䘀㌀琀琀椀爀㼀㴀∀ 㰀渀愀渀渀愀爀 愀琀 椀猀栀漀氀昀⸀椀猀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Summertime Cerulean Blue Sauce ਀ഊI just came across this translation of a blackberry sauce recipe from Libro ਀搀攀 䄀爀琀攀 䌀漀焀甀椀渀愀爀椀愀 戀礀 䴀愀攀猀琀爀漀 䴀愀爀琀椀渀漀 ⴀ 戀甀琀 椀琀 椀猀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀ഊCerulean Blue Sauce. Is it the same recipe? (If the original text was ਀瀀漀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 䤀 洀椀猀猀攀搀 椀琀⸀⤀ഊ ਀∀匀愀瀀漀爀 搀攀 䴀漀爀漀渀椀 ⠀戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀⤀ഊTake some cleaned almonds and pound them well with some white breadcrumbs. ਀䄀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 挀愀爀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 搀漀 渀漀琀ഊpound or beat so hard as to break those little seeds they have inside. Then ਀瀀甀琀 猀漀洀攀 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀Ⰰ 最椀渀最攀爀 愀渀搀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 渀甀琀洀攀最⸀ 䄀渀搀 瀀愀猀猀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀ഊsieve." ਀ഊThis translation is printed in the entry for mora di rovo (blackberry) in ਀䜀愀猀琀爀漀渀漀洀礀 漀昀 䤀琀愀氀礀 戀礀 䄀渀渀愀 搀攀氀 䌀漀渀琀攀 ⴀ 猀栀攀 椀猀 焀甀漀琀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 倀爀漀昀攀猀猀漀爀 䔀⸀ഊFaccioli´s edition in L´Arte della Cucina. ਀ഊNanna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䘀攀戀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㄀㨀㐀㘀㨀　㐀 ⬀　㄀　　ഊFrom: "MAYER,ING,SUSANNE FEM BIG-AT" ਀㰀匀甀猀愀渀渀攀⸀䴀愀礀攀爀 愀琀 瘀椀攀⸀戀漀攀栀爀椀渀最攀爀ⴀ椀渀最攀氀栀攀椀洀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Summertime Cerulean Blue Sauce ਀ഊHello here is Katharina again! ਀ഊI did check my books and found the following: rubus fruticosus L. agg. for ਀䈀爀漀洀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 攀渀最氀⸀ 䈀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 䘀爀⸀ 䴀甀爀攀 猀愀甀瘀愀最攀 椀猀 愀 戀攀爀爀礀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 㜀　ഊdifferent sorts growing in the wild in Central Europe alone! The differ ਀洀漀猀琀氀礀 椀渀 氀漀漀欀㨀 戀氀愀挀欀Ⰰ 爀攀搀戀氀愀挀欀Ⰰ 戀氀甀攀戀氀愀挀欀 漀爀 愀爀攀 最氀漀猀猀礀 漀爀  眀栀椀琀攀 昀爀漀猀琀攀搀⸀ഊThis is what you should try to find or the gardenvarieties R. discolor ਀⠀眀攀椀栀攀 攀琀 一攀攀猀⤀ 猀礀渀⸀ 刀⸀ 瀀爀漀挀攀爀甀猀 ⠀倀⸀䨀⸀ 䴀甀攀氀氀⸀⤀ഊ or Rubus laciniatus (Willd.) ਀ഊHeidelbeere is Vaccinium myrtillus Engl. Bilberry the American variety ਀⠀䈀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀礀⤀ 椀猀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 挀漀爀礀洀戀漀猀甀洀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 琀栀攀 最愀爀搀攀渀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 䤀 甀猀攀搀 椀猀 一甀琀稀瀀昀氀愀渀稀攀渀欀甀渀搀攀 ⼀ 圀漀氀昀最愀渀最 䘀爀愀渀欀攀 ⼀ 吀栀椀攀洀攀 嘀攀爀氀愀最⼀ 㔀⸀琀栀ഊEdition / ISBN: 3-13-530405-1 ਀ഊUnfortunately this book is only available in German. ਀ഊAt your service ਀䬀愀琀栀愀爀椀渀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:46:19 EST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䜀攀爀攀欀爀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: SC - Blackberries, OED (WAS: Summertime Cerulean ...) ਀ഊWell, Gerek thinks it's probably too late to throw this in, but I've done ਀愀氀氀 琀栀椀猀 琀礀瀀椀渀最 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 琀攀攀渀礀 琀椀渀礀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀搀攀渀猀攀搀 伀䔀䐀℀ഊJust a suggestion to try the OED if you have access to it. I started ਀眀椀琀栀 ∀戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀∀ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 戀攀爀爀礀 渀愀洀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀ഊconvolutions of the alleged or denied relationships, is ਀猀琀愀最最攀爀椀渀最⼀栀椀氀愀爀椀漀甀猀℀ഊ ਀伀䔀䐀㨀  䈀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ഊ1. The fruit of the bramble (Rubus fruticosus) and its varieties. This ਀戀攀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀攀猀琀 眀椀氀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 椀猀 猀瀀漀欀攀渀 漀昀 瀀爀漀瘀攀爀戀椀愀氀氀礀 愀猀ഊthe type of what is plentiful and little prized. ca. 1000 Aelfric Gloss. ਀ⴀ ⴀ 䤀渀 圀爀⸀ⴀ圀甀氀挀欀攀爀 嘀漀挀⸀ ㄀㌀㤀 ∀䘀氀愀渀椀Ⰰ 甀攀氀 洀漀爀椀Ⰰ 戀氀愀挀攀戀攀爀椀愀渀⸀∀ഊ3. Now, in the north of England and south of Scotland, the Black Currant ਀⠀刀椀戀攀猀 渀椀最爀甀洀⤀ 琀栀攀 ✀戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀礀✀ 漀昀 猀攀渀猀攀 ㄀⸀ 戀攀椀渀最 琀栀攀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀ഊ'Brambleberry'; formerly, in some localities the Bilberry or Blaeberry; ਀愀氀猀漀Ⰰ 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 猀漀洀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 攀爀爀漀渀攀漀甀猀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀氀漀攀 漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀ഊthe Blackthorn. 1567 Maplet Gr. Forest....1597 Gerard, Herbal We in ਀䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 嬀挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀洀崀 圀漀爀琀猀Ⰰ 圀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䈀氀愀挀欀ⴀ戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䈀椀氀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 ⴀ眀愀猀ⴀ 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 挀漀瀀礀 椀渀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 攀渀琀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 愀氀氀 氀椀渀欀攀搀ഊin the definitions, but time has fleeted on me... ਀ഊBrambleberry ਀䈀椀氀⠀氀⤀戀攀爀礀ഊBlaeberry ਀匀氀漀攀ഊBlackthorn ਀圀漀爀琀猀ഊWhortleberry ਀䠀甀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀ഊ ਀䜀攀爀攀欀✀猀 瀀爀椀稀攀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 琀爀愀椀氀㨀ഊ Hind (Hynd) berry (ca. 700!) (berries that grow in the forest and ਀愀爀攀 愀猀猀甀洀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 攀愀琀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 搀攀攀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 氀椀瘀攀 琀栀攀爀攀⤀ ⴀ㸀 刀愀猀瀀 ⠀䘀爀愀洀戀漀椀猀⤀ഊ- -> Raspberry -- So there for one source we have seen that says that ਀爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ ਀嘀椀欀椀渀最 渀漀琀攀㨀  琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 漀挀挀甀爀椀渀最 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 ∀戀氀甀攀∀ 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 一漀爀猀攀ഊis "blar" and means an almost black shade of blue. And there is a berry ਀渀愀洀攀 ∀䈀氀愀戀攀爀∀ 椀渀 伀氀搀 一漀爀猀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 䌀氀攀愀猀戀礀 ☀ 嘀椀最昀甀猀猀漀渀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀 愀猀ഊVaccinium; and "a(th)alblaber" as Vaccinium myrtilllus (bilberry or ਀眀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀⤀ഊ ਀䌀栀椀洀攀渀攀 ☀ 䜀攀爀攀欀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:12:00 -0000 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀㴀㼀椀猀漀ⴀ㠀㠀㔀㤀ⴀ㄀㼀儀㼀一愀渀渀愀开刀㴀䘀㘀最渀瘀愀氀搀愀爀搀㴀䘀㌀琀琀椀爀㼀㴀∀ 㰀渀愀渀渀愀爀 愀琀 椀猀栀漀氀昀⸀椀猀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Blackberries, OED (WAS: Summertime Cerulean ...) ਀ഊ>Viking note: the most commonly occuring term for "blue" in period Norse ਀㸀椀猀 ∀戀氀愀爀∀ 愀渀搀 洀攀愀渀猀 愀渀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 戀氀愀挀欀 猀栀愀搀攀 漀昀 戀氀甀攀⸀  䄀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 戀攀爀爀礀ഊ>name "Blaber" in Old Norse, which Cleasby & Vigfusson translate as ਀㸀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀㬀 愀渀搀 ∀愀⠀琀栀⤀愀氀戀氀愀戀攀爀∀ 愀猀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 洀礀爀琀椀氀氀氀甀猀 ⠀戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀 漀爀ഊ>whortleberry) ਀ഊBláber, at least those that grow here in Iceland, are of a similar blue ਀挀漀氀漀爀 愀猀 䄀洀攀爀挀椀愀渀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀琀栀攀 戀漀琀栀愀渀椀挀愀氀 渀愀洀攀 椀猀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 甀氀椀最椀渀漀猀甀洀⤀⸀ഊThey are smaller but tastier than the American berries. A›albláber ਀⠀戀椀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 洀礀爀琀椀氀氀甀猀⤀ 愀爀攀 搀愀爀欀 戀氀甀攀Ⰰ 漀昀琀攀渀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 戀氀愀挀欀⸀ 吀栀攀礀ഊare not as common here and are considered even better, as signified by their ਀渀愀洀攀 ⠀愠㨀愀氀 㴀 洀愀椀渀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀甀氀搀 洀攀愀渀 ∀洀愀椀渀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀∀⸀ 䈀氀戀攀爀 椀猀 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀ഊthe source for the alternate Scottish and Northern English name blaeberry. ਀ഊNanna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 　㄀ 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㈀　㨀㐀㈀㨀㔀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Jennifer D. Miller" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀䄀 昀爀椀攀渀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 䤀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 䜀爀漀甀瀀 䰀椀猀琀 瀀愀猀猀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 漀渀 琀漀 洀攀 眀栀攀渀 䤀ഊasked if cranberries were period. A native Russian on the list was ਀猀甀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀Ⰰ 愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 琀栀攀礀ഊare incredibly prolific there. Off to peruse my Russian sources... ਀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 ⠀䴀椀猀琀爀攀猀猀 䄀最渀攀猀 漀昀 䌀愀氀漀渀琀椀爀⤀ 椀猀 愀 戀漀琀愀渀椀猀琀 瀀爀漀昀攀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀氀礀⸀  䤀ഊjust snipped from her longer letter. ਀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀ഊ** the word "cranberry" is post period. ਀ഊ**The plant we use is American (Vaccinium macrocarpum). All over the ਀眀漀爀氀搀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀椀爀 氀漀挀愀氀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 嬀嘀漀氀挀愀渀漀ഊHouse on Hawaii sells the Hawaii species as jam]. Blueberries are a ਀戀氀甀攀ⴀ昀爀甀椀琀攀搀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀⸀  䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀 爀攀搀ⴀ昀爀甀椀琀攀搀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀⸀ഊ ਀⨀⨀䄀氀氀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 椀猀 愀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 爀攀搀ⴀ昀爀甀椀琀攀搀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 ⠀嘀⸀ 漀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀⤀Ⰰ ഊa little smaller than the American form, but otherwise very very similar. ਀䴀漀猀猀 戀攀爀爀礀 愀渀搀 戀漀最 戀攀爀爀礀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 昀漀爀 椀琀 ⠀戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀ഊtook over), distributed in Scandiavia and across Russia and into Siberia. Not ਀挀漀洀洀漀渀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 洀漀爀攀 猀漀 椀渀 匀挀漀琀氀愀渀搀⸀  䐀漀甀戀琀昀甀氀 椀渀 䐀攀渀洀愀爀欀Ⰰ ☀ 䜀攀爀洀愀渀礀Ⰰഊno problem in Norway and Sweden. ਀ഊ**Europe also has the 'cowberry' or "mountain cranberry" V. vitis-idaea, ਀⠀漀昀 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀眀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀 挀漀洀洀漀渀ഊin England. Even this might be a "cranberry" since we substitute currants ਀昀漀爀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀Ⰰ ⠀愀渀搀 漀甀爀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 眀爀漀渀最 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 愀渀搀 漀甀爀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀ഊNorth American x South American hybrid, at least as distant from period ਀猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀猀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 昀爀漀洀 戀漀最 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀⤀ഊ ਀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀⨀縀ഊIlyana Barsova (Yana) ***mka Jennifer D. Miller ਀樀搀洀椀氀氀攀爀㈀ 愀琀 猀琀甀搀攀渀琀猀⸀眀椀猀挀⸀攀搀甀 ⨀⨀⨀ 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀猀椀琀⸀眀椀猀挀⸀攀搀甀⼀縀樀搀洀椀氀氀攀爀㈀ഊSlavic Interest Group http://www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㌀ 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀　㨀　㤀㨀㄀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀㸀 吀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 ⠀䴀椀猀琀爀攀猀猀 䄀最渀攀猀 漀昀 䌀愀氀漀渀琀椀爀⤀ 椀猀 愀 戀漀琀愀渀椀猀琀 瀀爀漀昀攀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀氀礀⸀  䤀ഊ> just snipped from her longer letter. ਀㸀 ⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀⨀ഊ> ** the word "cranberry" is post period. ਀㸀ഊ> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ਀㸀 䤀氀礀愀渀愀 䈀愀爀猀漀瘀愀 ⠀夀愀渀愀⤀  ⨀⨀⨀洀欀愀 䨀攀渀渀椀昀攀爀 䐀⸀ 䴀椀氀氀攀爀ഊ ਀䄀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀椀搀戀椀琀 琀漀 愀搀搀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀 琀栀爀攀愀搀⸀  䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀渀 ㄀㠀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 琀攀爀洀ഊapparently derived from crane berry. In the 16th and 17th Centuries, ਀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 欀渀漀眀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 愀猀 洀愀爀猀栀 眀栀漀爀琀氀攀猀Ⰰ 洀愀爀猀栀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 昀攀渀ഊwhortles, or fen berries. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䄀甀最 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㐀㨀㈀㜀㨀㄀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䈀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ ਀㸀 䄀 昀爀椀攀渀搀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 匀眀攀搀攀渀 眀漀渀搀攀爀猀 椀昀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀Ⰰ 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ> are period - does anybody know? ਀㸀ഊ> Lady Uta, Nordmark ਀ഊRhubarb (Rhuem rhubarbarum, et al.) was known in Antiquity. The word ਀爀栀甀戀愀爀戀攀 眀愀猀 昀椀爀猀琀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㌀㤀　⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀ഊthe genus Rhuem hiding under the rhubarb name. Gooseberries (Ribes ਀甀瘀愀ⴀ挀爀椀猀瀀愀⤀ 愀爀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 一攀漀氀椀琀栀椀挀⸀ഊRaspberries are both New and Old World. The basic European stock is Rubus ਀椀搀攀愀甀猀⸀ഊ ਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:08:07 +1000 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䌀爀愀椀最 䨀漀渀攀猀 ☀ 䴀攀氀椀猀猀愀 䠀椀挀欀猀∀ 㰀洀攀氀椀漀爀愀 愀琀 洀愀挀焀甀愀爀椀攀⸀洀愀琀爀愀⸀挀漀洀⸀愀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Re: fruit vinegar drinks ਀ഊBonne, ਀ഊ> I just found this last night, it's just a mention, not a recipe. Does ਀㸀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀 椀昀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀 昀愀挀猀椀洀椀氀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀 戀漀漀欀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 ∀䔀氀椀渀漀爀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀✀猀 刀攀挀攀椀瀀琀 䈀漀漀欀 ⴀ 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀愀渀 䌀漀甀渀琀爀礀 䠀漀甀猀攀 䌀漀漀欀椀渀最∀Ⰰഊ> Hilary Spurling, pg 209 ਀㸀 ∀䰀愀搀礀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀 洀愀搀攀 愀 氀椀焀甀漀爀 昀爀漀洀 攀焀甀愀氀 瀀愀爀琀猀 眀栀椀琀攀 眀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 眀栀椀琀攀 眀椀渀攀ഊ> vinegar, boiled together with sugar, in which 'To keepe Barberries all the ਀㸀 礀攀愀爀攀✀⸀∀ഊ ਀䘀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⸀  䠀漀瀀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 漀昀 甀猀攀⸀ഊ ਀䴀攀氀椀漀爀愀⸀ഊ ਀吀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 䈀愀爀戀攀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊFirst take barberries & stone them, then wey to every pound of barberries ਀琀眀漀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 瀀甀琀 愀氀氀 礀漀甀爀 猀甀最愀爀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀栀愀昀愀爀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀椀爀琀漀 愀猀ഊmuch rosevater as will wet the sugar, then set it on the fire, & let it ਀戀漀礀氀攀Ⰰ ☀ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 戀漀礀氀攀琀栀 瘀攀爀礀 昀愀猀琀Ⰰ 瀀甀琀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 戀愀爀戀攀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ ☀ 愀猀 猀漀漀渀攀 愀猀 琀栀攀ഊsirop boyleth up you must put downe the barberries; when you see they bee ਀愀氀氀 猀栀爀漀渀欀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 愀 戀愀猀椀渀 琀漀 挀漀漀氀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀ഊmust boyle verie fast so long as they be on. ਀ഊTo make Conserve of Barberies. ਀吀愀欀攀 䈀愀爀戀愀爀椀攀猀 ☀ 瀀椀挀欀 琀栀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀氀欀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 愀 挀栀愀昀愀爀Ⰰഊwith as much rose water as will wet them but none to bee seene in the ਀戀漀琀琀漀洀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 猀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀Ⰰ ☀ 愀猀 琀栀攀礀 眀愀爀洀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 瀀爀椀挀欀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 琀椀氀氀ഊthey are all broken, then straine them, & put to the iuice of them, as much ਀猀甀最愀爀 愀猀 礀漀甀 琀栀椀渀欀 最漀漀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 猀攀琀 椀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀⸀ 愀琀  ☀ 欀攀攀瀀 椀琀 眀愀爀洀攀 琀椀氀氀 琀栀攀ഊsugar bee melted, then let it boyle verie fast, till it bee enough. ਀ഊFor the yellow Gaunders. ਀吀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 椀渀渀攀爀 爀礀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀愀爀戀愀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ ☀ 礀攀氀氀漀眀 搀漀挀欀 爀漀漀琀猀Ⰰ ☀ 氀愀礀 椀琀 愀氀氀ഊnight in white wine and drink it fasting. ਀ഊA medicine for the yellow laundes. ਀吀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 椀渀渀攀爀 戀愀爀欀 漀昀 戀愀爀戀愀爀椀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 礀攀氀氀漀眀 搀漀挀欀 爀漀漀琀猀Ⰰ 猀琀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 眀栀椀琀攀ഊwine one night, & let them drink it fasting in the morning. ਀ഊFor the yellow launders. ਀吀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 椀渀渀攀爀 爀礀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀愀爀戀愀爀椀攀 琀爀攀攀Ⰰ 挀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀椀渀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀Ⰰ ☀ 洀愀欀攀ഊpowder of it, & drink it in posset drink made with ale, in the morning ਀昀愀猀琀椀渀最Ⰰ ☀ 氀愀猀琀 愀琀 渀椀最栀琀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:23:27 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 爀攀渀昀爀漀眀 愀琀 猀欀礀氀愀渀搀猀⸀渀攀琀 ⠀䌀椀渀搀礀 刀攀渀昀爀漀眀⤀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Syllabub - does anyone have a period recipe? ਀ഊ>Lorix asked: ਀㸀㸀䠀攀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 猀礀氀氀愀戀甀戀 椀搀攀愀⸀  一漀眀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀ഊ>>lovely OOP recipes for syllabub, but I was ਀㸀㸀栀漀瀀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀ഊ>>than mine might have a recipe, please, ਀㸀㸀瀀氀攀愀猀攀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀䴀礀 昀椀氀攀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 猀礀氀氀愀戀甀戀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 ∀䄀ഊ>Sip Through Time". This file in the BEVERAGES section of my ਀㸀䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀猀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 昀漀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 戀甀琀ഊ>there are none in the file itself: ਀㸀戀攀瘀攀爀愀最攀猀ⴀ洀猀最     ⠀㤀㌀䬀⤀  㤀⼀ ㌀⼀㤀㤀    䈀攀瘀攀爀愀最攀猀 椀渀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀⸀ 愀氀挀栀漀氀椀挀 搀爀椀渀欀猀⸀ഊ> ਀㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀ഊ ਀䠀攀氀氀漀℀  夀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 㔀 猀礀氀氀愀戀甀戀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 ∀䄀 匀椀瀀 吀栀爀漀甀最栀 吀椀洀攀∀⸀  吀栀爀攀攀 愀爀攀ഊfrom Digby (1669), the other 2 are from Amelia Simmons' First American CB ਀⠀㄀㜀㤀㘀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 愀氀氀 愀氀挀漀栀漀氀椀挀 搀爀椀渀欀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䈀甀琀 䰀漀爀椀砀 眀愀猀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 昀爀漀稀攀渀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 渀漀㼀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀ഊ2 recipes for strawberries in the Harleian MSS, 279 & 4016 -- Darioles, & ਀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀⸀  䤀✀瘀攀 愀搀愀瀀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀琀攀爀 愀猀 愀 猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀 礀漀甀 挀漀甀氀搀ഊmake it as a thick pudding if you used thick almond milk or almond cream. ਀䘀爀漀稀攀渀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 樀甀猀琀 昀椀渀攀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 搀椀猀栀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 戀攀椀渀最ഊsquished anyway. ਀ഊ"Harleian MS. 279 - Potage Dyvers ਀䌀砀砀椀椀樀⸀  匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀⸀  吀愀欀攀 匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀猀Ⰰ ☀ 眀愀礀猀猀栀攀 栀攀洀 椀渀 琀礀洀攀 漀昀 嬀㌀崀攀爀攀 椀渀ഊgode red wyne; [th]an strayne [th]orwe a clo[th]e, & do hem in a potte with ਀最漀搀攀 䄀氀洀愀甀渀搀攀 洀礀氀欀攀Ⰰ 愀ⴀ氀愀礀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 䄀洀礀渀搀漀甀渀 漀嬀琀栀崀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 嬀琀栀崀攀 昀氀漀眀爀攀 漀昀ഊRys, & make it chargeaunt and lat it boyle, and do [th]er-in Roysonys of ਀挀漀爀愀甀渀挀攀Ⰰ 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ 倀攀瀀椀爀Ⰰ 匀甀最爀攀 最爀攀琀攀 瀀氀攀渀琀攀Ⰰ 瀀漀甀搀攀爀 䜀礀渀最攀爀攀Ⰰ 䌀愀渀攀氀ⰀഊGalyngale; poynte it with Vynegre, & a lytil whyte grece put [th]er-to; ਀挀漀氀漀甀爀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 䄀氀欀攀渀愀搀攀Ⰰ ☀ 搀爀漀瀀瀀攀 椀琀 愀ⴀ戀漀眀琀攀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀渀琀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 嬀琀栀崀攀 最爀愀礀渀礀猀ഊof Pome-garnad, & [th]an serue it forth. ਀ഊ123. Strawberry. Take Strawberries, & wash them in time of year in good ਀爀攀搀 眀椀渀攀㬀 琀栀攀渀 猀琀爀愀椀渀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 挀氀漀琀栀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 瀀漀琀 眀椀琀栀 最漀漀搀 䄀氀洀漀渀搀ഊmilk, mix it with White flour or with the flour of Rice, & make it thick ਀愀渀搀 氀攀琀 椀琀 戀漀椀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀椀渀 刀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀昀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀Ⰰ 匀愀昀昀爀漀渀Ⰰ 倀攀瀀瀀攀爀Ⰰ 匀甀最愀爀ഊgreat plenty, powdered Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale; point it with Vinegar, ਀☀ 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 眀栀椀琀攀 最爀攀愀猀攀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀琀漀㬀 挀漀氀漀爀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 䄀氀欀愀渀攀琀Ⰰ ☀ 搀爀漀瀀 椀琀ഊabout, plant it with the grains of Pomegranate, & then serve it forth." ਀⠀䘀爀漀洀 吀愀欀攀 愀 吀栀漀甀猀愀渀搀 䔀最最猀 漀爀 䴀漀爀攀Ⰰ 瀀⸀ ㈀㐀　⸀⤀ഊ ਀㸀 吀栀攀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 洀攀琀栀漀搀猀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最 椀琀 挀愀洀攀ഊ> from having read a recipe where one is supposed to milk the cow ਀㸀 搀椀爀攀挀琀氀礀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 眀椀渀攀⸀  吀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 琀爀椀攀搀 椀琀 愀渀搀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊ> syllabub curdled and smelled very bad. ਀ഊYes, some of the recipes instruct you to milk the cow directly into the ਀猀礀氀氀愀戀甀戀 ⴀⴀ ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 瀀愀爀琀礀 栀甀洀漀爀Ⰰ 䤀 最甀攀猀猀⸀  吀栀攀 漀戀樀攀挀琀 眀愀猀 琀漀 挀爀攀愀琀攀 愀ഊfrothy head on the syllabub (the beverage was drunk from special spouted ਀最氀愀猀猀攀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 瀀漀琀猀⤀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 挀愀氀氀 昀漀爀 愀 昀爀漀琀栀 漀昀 挀爀攀愀洀 ☀ 攀最最眀栀椀琀攀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀搀搀攀搀ഊon top of the glasses of syllabub. One of the recipes, which instructs us ਀琀漀 洀椀氀欀 琀栀攀 挀漀眀 椀渀琀漀 愀 瀀椀渀琀 漀昀 瘀攀爀樀甀椀挀攀Ⰰ 猀愀礀猀 琀漀 猀欀椀洀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀愀渀琀 挀甀爀搀㨀ഊ ਀∀吀愀欀攀 愀 瀀椀渀琀 漀昀 嘀攀爀樀甀礀挀攀 椀渀 愀 戀漀眀氀㬀 洀椀氀欀 琀栀攀 䌀漀眀 琀漀 琀栀攀 嘀攀爀樀甀礀挀攀㬀 琀愀欀攀 漀昀昀ഊthe Curd; and take sweet-cream and beat them together with a little Sack ਀愀渀搀 匀甀最愀爀㬀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 礀漀甀爀 匀礀氀氀愀戀甀戀 瀀漀琀㬀 琀栀攀渀 猀琀爀攀眀 匀甀最愀爀 漀渀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀ഊsend it to the Table." (Digby, #134) ਀ഊI haven't tried this one, but I have done a hypocras recipe that included ਀挀爀攀愀洀⸀  吀栀攀 挀爀攀愀洀 搀椀搀 昀漀爀洀 挀甀爀搀猀 眀栀攀渀 愀搀搀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 眀椀渀攀 ☀ 眀愀猀 瘀攀爀礀ഊunpleasant to look at. ( I need to repeat this experiment, & try skimming ਀漀昀昀 琀栀攀 挀甀爀搀猀⸀ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 䤀 洀甀猀琀 栀愀瘀攀 猀瀀椀氀氀攀搀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀甀爀搀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊremember. But I just tried the hypocras last night [lost it in the back of ਀琀栀攀 昀爀椀搀最攀 昀漀爀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 洀漀渀琀栀猀 㨀ⴀ　崀 ☀ 椀琀 栀愀猀 洀攀氀氀漀眀攀搀 琀漀 愀 爀椀挀栀Ⰰ 昀甀氀氀ⴀ戀漀搀椀攀搀ഊsweet wine with just enough spice to make it interesting. ) What I think ਀椀猀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 昀愀琀 椀猀 爀攀洀愀椀渀椀渀最 椀渀 琀栀攀 搀爀椀渀欀 ☀ 戀攀椀渀最 戀爀漀欀攀渀 甀瀀 ☀ഊdispersed by the acid in the wine or verjuice, & this is giving the drink a ਀爀椀挀栀 洀攀氀氀漀眀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀⸀ഊ ਀䌀椀渀搀礀 刀攀渀昀爀漀眀⼀匀椀渀挀最椀攀昀甀ഊrenfrow at skylands.net ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㈀㌀㨀㄀㜀㨀㐀㘀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "RANDALL DIAMOND" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 䰀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 䨀愀洀甀瀀 ⠀氀漀渀最⤀ഊ ਀匀琀攀昀愀渀 氀椀 刀漀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>I, for one, would like to hear more about this "used for centuries ਀㸀昀爀漀洀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀∀⸀ 䤀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 漀甀爀 瀀爀攀瘀椀漀甀猀 搀椀猀甀挀猀猀椀漀渀猀ഊ>on this berry being somewhat short on definative info and evidence, ਀㸀愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 䤀 欀攀瀀琀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ഊ ਀⨀匀椀最栀⨀  䤀 最甀攀猀猀 䤀 洀甀搀搀氀攀搀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀猀 愀 戀椀琀 眀椀琀栀 洀礀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 焀甀攀爀礀⸀  吀栀攀ഊline of thought I was spinning was seeing if lingonberries could be tied ਀琀漀 愀 氀愀琀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 嘀椀欀椀渀最 挀甀椀猀椀渀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀搀 戀攀攀渀 椀渀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 漀渀ഊSCA_Cooks of late. It seems that both of you were commenting on ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀⸀  䤀 渀漀眀 猀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 猀栀愀爀攀ഊwhat thoughts and documentation (both hard and soft) I have on the ਀猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 漀昀 䌀刀䄀一䈀䔀刀刀䤀䔀匀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 瀀爀漀最爀攀猀猀 琀漀 洀礀 焀甀攀爀礀 漀渀ഊLingonberries. ਀ഊReviewing the past few weeks digests, I get the impression that there is a ਀最攀渀攀爀愀氀 戀攀氀椀攀昀 琀栀愀琀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀愀渀搀 戀礀 攀砀琀攀渀猀椀漀渀ⴀ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀⤀ 愀爀攀 伀伀倀⸀ഊIf I am mistaken in this impression, then a lot of the following you likely ਀愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 欀渀漀眀⸀   䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀椀渀挀氀甀搀椀渀最 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⤀ 愀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 搀愀琀椀渀最 戀愀挀欀ഊto the late Roman Empire. Cranberry SAUCE dates to the 15th and 16th ਀挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 椀渀 愀 搀椀爀攀挀琀 氀椀渀攀愀爀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀 漀昀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 愀猀 漀甀琀氀椀渀攀搀ഊin the manner of soft fruit marmelades. ਀ഊFirst I will review and expand upon the botanical data I have on cranberries ਀愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 渀攀愀爀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀爀琀 猀礀渀漀瀀猀椀猀 䤀 最愀瘀攀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 椀猀 眀漀攀昀甀氀氀礀ഊinadequate, being to wit: ਀ഊ"There are 2 native European species Vaccinium oxycoccus and Vaccinium ਀瘀椀琀甀猀 椀搀愀攀愀⸀  吀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 椀猀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀⸀  吀栀攀 漀渀氀礀ഊsubstantial difference in the oxycoccus and macrocarpon is the size of ਀琀栀攀 戀攀爀爀礀⸀  䈀漀琀栀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 䈀爀椀琀愀椀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀ഊpart of continental Europe. Perhaps the berry has shown up in period ਀甀猀攀 戀礀 椀琀猀 愀氀琀攀爀渀愀琀攀 渀愀洀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 爀攀搀 眀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ ∀ഊ ਀䔀砀瀀愀渀搀椀渀最Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 漀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀 椀猀 琀栀攀 匀洀愀氀氀 䌀刀䄀一䈀䔀刀刀夀ഊand is identical except for size to the American species Vaccinium ਀洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀⸀   伀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀 最爀漀眀 椀渀 戀漀最猀 戀漀琀栀 椀渀 琀栀攀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 唀匀 愀渀搀 愀氀氀ഊacross Northern Europe (non-mediterannean) and the Trans-caucus area ਀漀昀 䄀猀椀愀 洀椀渀漀爀 眀栀攀爀攀 㤀　─ 漀昀 琀攀洀瀀攀爀愀琀攀 昀爀甀椀琀椀渀最 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 攀瘀漀氀瘀攀搀⸀  嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀ഊvitus idaea also is native to the US, known as the mountain cranberry or ਀猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 昀漀砀戀攀爀爀礀⸀  䤀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀Ⰰ 瘀椀琀甀猀 椀搀愀攀愀 椀猀 眀栀愀琀 眀攀 挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀 䰀䤀一䜀伀一䈀䔀刀刀夀ഊand has a somewhat similar flavour but in a jam it is less tart than ਀爀攀最甀氀愀爀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀 ⠀愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀愀猀琀攀搀 猀漀 琀漀 洀攀㬀 椀琀 愀氀猀漀ഊseemed sweeter). ਀ഊThe American species Vaccinium macrocarpon is one of FOUR native to ਀一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 ⠀琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 戀攀椀渀最 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 攀爀礀琀栀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀甀猀栀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀ഊwhich is only native to above 4000 feet in the southern Appalachians -OOP). ਀䴀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 氀漀挀愀氀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 椀渀搀椀最攀渀漀甀猀 琀漀 挀漀愀猀琀愀氀 一攀眀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 戀甀琀ഊvery common in that area in the early 17th c. Likewise the two European ਀猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 愀渀搀 眀椀搀攀猀瀀爀攀愀搀 椀渀 愀爀攀愀猀 挀漀漀氀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀ഊgood fruiting. ਀ഊIt is now necessary to do a little food detective work and some speculation. ਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀猀 眀椀琀栀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀椀渀最 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 椀猀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 氀椀欀攀ഊthe problem of a recipe for almond milk. They are so simple and the ਀瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀 漀昀 甀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 礀攀猀Ⰰ 椀渀挀氀甀搀椀渀最 洀愀欀椀渀最 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 椀猀 猀漀ഊsimple, widespread, and prosaic that NO ONE BOTHERED TO WRITE ਀䤀吀 伀唀吀⸀  䌀漀洀瀀氀椀挀愀琀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 琀栀攀 瀀氀攀琀栀漀爀攀愀 漀昀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀渀最 渀愀洀攀猀 昀漀爀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊin the Vaccinium family which includes blueberries. Very likely there ਀愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 ⠀愀渀搀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀ഊfood history authors) just didn't connect the fruit with cranberries. ਀ഊHere is a listing of current use names for V. oxycoccus: Swed: tranbar, ਀䘀爀㨀 挀愀渀渀攀戀攀爀最攀Ⰰ 䜀爀㨀 䴀漀漀猀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 䤀琀㨀 洀漀爀琀攀氀氀愀 搀椀 瀀愀氀甀搀攀Ⰰ 䔀猀瀀㨀 愀爀愀渀搀愀渀漀 愀最爀椀漀ⰀഊPort: arando, Dan/Nor: tranebaer, Finn:isokarpalo, Rus: klyukva, Pol: ਀稀甀爀愀眀椀渀愀Ⰰ 䌀稀攀挀欀㨀 欀氀椀欀瘀愀 愀渀搀 稀漀爀愀眀椀渀愀Ⰰ 匀氀漀瘀㨀 欀氀甀欀瘀愀 洀漀挀椀愀爀渀愀Ⰰ 䠀甀渀最㨀ഊtozegafonya,Ser/Cro: brusnica and Rom: rachitelele. ਀ഊHere is a listing for current use names for V vitus idaea: ਀䘀爀㨀 洀礀爀琀椀氀氀攀 爀漀甀最攀Ⰰ 䜀爀㨀 倀爀攀椀猀攀氀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 倀漀爀琀㨀 甀瘀愀 搀漀猀 洀漀渀琀攀猀Ⰰ 䐀愀渀⼀一漀爀㨀ഊtyttebaer, Swed: lingon, Fin: puolukka, Rus: brusnika, Polish: bruznica or ਀樀愀最漀搀愀Ⰰ 䌀稀攀挀欀㨀 戀漀爀甀眀欀愀Ⰰ 匀攀爀⼀䌀爀漀㨀 戀漀爀漀瘀渀椀挀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 刀漀洀㨀 洀攀爀椀猀漀愀爀愀⸀ഊ(These names are from Alan Davidson's FRUIT, A CONNOISSEUR'S ਀䜀唀䤀䐀䔀 ☀ 䌀伀伀䬀䈀伀伀䬀Ⰰ 匀椀洀漀渀 ☀ 匀挀栀甀猀琀攀爀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㤀㄀⤀ഊ ਀䔀愀爀氀椀攀爀 渀愀洀攀猀 氀愀猀琀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 昀漀爀 嘀⸀ 漀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀 愀爀攀 䘀爀㨀 栀椀爀攀氀氀攀Ⰰ 䜀爀㨀 䠀攀椀搀攀氀戀攀攀爀攀ഊand Mooreberrie as recorded by Andrew S. Fuller in THE SMALL FRUIT \ ਀䌀唀䰀吀唀刀䤀匀吀Ⰰ 伀爀愀渀最攀 䨀甀搀搀 䌀漀⸀Ⰰ 一夀 ㄀㠀㠀㄀⸀  䘀甀氀氀攀爀 猀琀愀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 ∀琀栀攀 刀漀洀愀渀猀ഊprobably did not know the cranberry until after their conquest in the north ਀漀昀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀∀⸀ഊ ਀䘀漀爀最椀瘀攀 洀攀 昀漀爀 渀漀琀 戀攀椀渀最 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀 琀栀攀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀 搀椀挀爀椀琀椀挀愀氀 洀愀爀欀椀渀最猀 漀昀ഊthe foreign language text as I have not learned how to find them in this ਀眀漀爀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀⸀  䤀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀 䴀愀挀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 ⠀䤀䈀䴀 㴀䤀琀ഊBaffles Me). ਀ഊPlease note the importance of realizing that all these names in many ਀氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀 䐀伀 一伀吀 爀攀昀氀攀挀琀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀爀椀最椀渀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ഊThey are strictly European and their roots go back to the Roman empire. ਀䤀琀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 挀爀椀琀椀挀愀氀 琀漀 洀礀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀氀 瀀爀漀漀昀 琀栀愀琀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 甀渀氀椀欀攀 洀漀猀琀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊfood plants, have never swapped continents in domestic horticulture! ਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 漀昀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 琀愀欀攀渀 琀漀ഊthe American colonies BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY THERE; ਀琀栀攀 猀椀稀攀 眀愀猀 猀甀瀀攀爀椀漀爀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 最爀漀眀椀渀最 挀漀渀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀 昀愀瘀漀爀攀搀 琀栀攀 洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀⸀ഊConversely, macrocarpon was never taken into European cultivation, other ਀琀栀愀渀 椀渀 愀 戀爀椀攀昀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㜀㘀　✀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 漀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀ഊtables until the 20th century mass market cultivation and importing from ਀䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀⸀  匀漀 眀攀 洀甀猀琀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀渀礀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 眀爀椀琀椀渀最猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ⠀漀爀 ㄀㜀琀栀ഊand 18th century) refer specifically to the familiar, native European ਀嘀⸀ 漀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀 ⠀甀渀氀攀猀猀 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 椀猀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 琀漀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀ഊor one of the other related Vaccinium varieties). ਀ഊHere are some of the current other language names for blueberry or bilberry: ਀䘀爀㨀 洀礀爀琀椀氀氀攀 漀爀 愀椀爀攀氀氀攀Ⰰ 䜀爀㨀 䈀氀愀甀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 䤀琀愀氀㨀 洀椀爀琀椀氀氀漀Ⰰ 䔀猀瀀㨀 愀爀愀渀搀愀渀漀ⰀഊDan/Nor: blabaer, Finn: mustikka or pensamustikka, Rus: chernika, Pol: ਀挀稀愀爀渀椀挀愀 漀爀 挀稀愀爀渀愀 樀愀最漀搀愀Ⰰ 䠀甀渀最㨀 昀攀欀攀琀攀 愀昀漀渀礀愀Ⰰ 刀漀洀㨀 愀昀椀渀愀Ⰰ 匀攀爀⼀䌀爀漀琀㨀ഊborovnica, Bul:borvinki. ਀ഊBilberries (especially. V. myrtillus) are called Fr: airelle or myrtille, Gr: ਀吀爀甀渀欀攀氀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 䤀琀愀氀㨀 洀漀爀琀攀氀氀愀 漀爀 洀漀爀愀Ⰰ 䐀愀渀㨀 洀漀猀攀戀漀氀氀攀Ⰰ 一漀爀㨀 猀欀椀渀渀琀爀礀琀攀Ⰰ 匀眀攀搀㨀ഊodon, Finn: fuolukka< Rus: chernika and Bul: cherveni borovinki. Other ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 渀愀洀攀猀 愀爀攀 眀栀椀渀戀攀爀爀礀 漀爀 眀椀渀攀戀攀爀爀礀 愀渀搀 戀氀愀攀戀攀爀爀礀⸀  夀漀甀 挀愀渀 愀氀猀漀 愀搀搀ഊto this list the confusing and sometimes interchangable names for ਀栀甀挀欀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 眀栀漀爀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀 愀渀搀 栀甀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀⸀  䤀猀 椀琀 愀渀礀 眀漀渀搀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 洀愀礀ഊhave not connected possible references between any of these names and ਀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀⤀㼀ഊ ਀䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀猀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 䐀椀猀渀攀礀攀猀焀甀攀 瘀椀攀眀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀㈀　 倀氀礀洀漀甀琀栀 䌀漀氀漀渀礀ഊbeyond the twisting of history with John Smith and his child bride. In ਀瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 眀愀猀 琀愀欀攀渀 昀爀漀洀ഊEurope to the New World where it florished and has almost died out in ਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 ⠀渀漀琀 琀爀甀攀⤀ 猀椀渀挀攀⸀  伀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 攀砀琀爀攀洀攀Ⰰ 眀攀 愀氀猀漀 爀攀愀搀 昀愀椀爀礀 琀愀氀攀猀ഊof the native Americans teaching the Pilgrims how to make cranberry ਀猀愀甀挀攀 愀渀搀 戀漀椀氀 愀渀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 挀漀爀渀ⴀ漀渀ⴀ琀栀攀ⴀ挀漀戀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 攀渀最爀愀瘀椀渀最猀ഊand illustrations of noble tatooed savages stirring an enourmous cauldrons ਀漀昀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 挀漀爀渀⸀  䔀砀挀甀猀攀 洀攀⸀  䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀猀ഊnever progressed beyond the STONE age. What museum has on display ਀漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀椀爀愀挀甀氀漀甀猀 挀愀甀氀搀爀漀渀猀㼀  䘀爀漀洀 洀礀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀椀最愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊwere used by the Indian tribes of New England dried in pemmican ਀瀀爀椀洀愀爀椀氀礀 漀爀 猀琀甀昀昀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 瘀攀渀椀猀漀渀 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀 最愀洀攀 琀漀 椀渀瀀愀爀琀 昀氀愀瘀漀甀爀⸀  吀栀攀礀ഊknew how to steam and what we would call barbeque in pits, but as far ਀愀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀爀甀攀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀⸀  一愀眀℀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀ഊdescriptions of a mush of buffalo berries by other tribes but uncooked. ਀䤀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀氀最爀椀洀猀 栀愀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 欀渀攀眀 栀漀眀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀⸀ഊLook at the availability of ingredients: plentiful cranberries, wild honey ਀爀攀愀搀椀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀爀 洀愀瀀氀攀 猀礀爀甀瀀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 氀攀愀爀渀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀猀⤀⸀ഊThe colonists were not knowledgeable of court recipes and agriculture, nor ਀眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 最漀漀搀 昀椀猀栀攀爀洀攀渀 漀爀 栀甀渀琀攀爀猀⸀  匀漀洀攀栀漀眀 琀栀攀礀 洀愀渀愀最攀搀ഊnearly to have starved to death in the midst of incredible bounty. I have ਀琀漀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀洀攀渀 栀愀搀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 洀愀爀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 洀漀爀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀ഊwith the kitchen than in their rather dogmatic religion and remembered some ਀漀昀 栀攀爀 洀漀琀栀攀爀✀猀 漀爀 最爀愀渀渀礀✀猀 琀攀愀挀栀椀渀最 眀栀椀挀栀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀搀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀椀挀猀 漀昀 洀愀欀椀渀最ഊjams and marmalades. ਀ഊWhat do I base this on, you may ask? Sometimes the period chef fails to ਀眀爀椀琀攀 搀漀眀渀 ∀眀栀愀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀猀∀⸀  吀栀攀 戀愀猀椀挀猀 眀椀琀栀 眀栀椀挀栀 ∀愀氀氀 昀愀洀椀氀椀愀爀 眀椀琀栀ഊcooking" know, are left out (like how precisely to make almond milk for example). ਀吀栀椀猀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 甀猀Ⰰ 愀猀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 挀漀漀欀猀Ⰰ 瘀甀氀渀攀爀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 愀 最爀攀愀琀 搀攀愀氀  漀昀 猀瀀攀挀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀ഊand argument. Fortunately, there have been a few instances of period sources ਀眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 戀礀 渀漀渀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀攀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀氀 挀漀漀欀猀 愀渀搀 眀爀漀琀攀 搀漀眀渀 琀栀攀ഊrecipes. As these authors were not cooks, they also wrote down a lot of ਀琀栀攀 ∀戀愀猀椀挀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 攀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀猀∀ 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀漀漀欀猀 琀攀渀搀攀搀 琀漀 漀洀椀琀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀椀渀最ഊinstruction. ਀ഊFor period documentation of cranberry sauce, I look to a noncook - John ਀䜀攀爀愀爀搀⸀  䠀椀猀 栀甀最攀 ∀䠀䔀刀䈀䄀䰀 伀刀 䜀䔀一䔀刀䄀䰀 䠀䤀匀吀伀刀夀 伀䘀 倀䰀䄀一吀匀 栀愀猀 愀ഊ(rarely included) recipe under "whortleberries". However, to find it you ਀渀攀攀搀 愀挀挀攀猀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 甀渀愀戀爀椀搀最攀搀 瘀漀氀甀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀㌀㌀ ⠀爀攀挀攀渀琀氀礀 瀀甀琀 漀甀琀 戀礀 䐀漀瘀攀爀⤀⸀ഊThe reference to Vaccinium species is wholely under the heading "Of ਀圀漀爀琀猀 漀爀 圀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀∀Ⰰ 吀栀椀爀搀 䈀漀漀欀Ⰰ 挀栀愀瀀琀攀爀 㜀㌀⸀ 瀀愀最攀猀 ㄀㐀㄀㔀ⴀ㄀㤀⸀  吀栀攀ഊcranberry is illustrated as Vaccinia rubra "Red Worts or Wortleberries". At ਀琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 瀀愀最攀 ㄀㐀㄀㠀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 䐀甀琀挀栀 渀愀洀攀 ∀爀漀漀琀攀爀 栀攀椀搀氀攀戀攀攀爀攀∀ 愀渀搀 ∀爀漀漀琀攀爀ഊcrakenbelien"and the French "aurelles rouges" (red bilberry) are given. ਀䈀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 䜀攀爀愀爀搀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀猀 愀猀 戀氀愀挀欀⤀Ⰰ 愀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀ⴀഊWorts, Whortleberries, Blacke-berries, Bill-berries, Bull-berries and ਀圀椀渀ⴀ戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀瀀瀀⸀ ㄀㐀㄀㜀⤀⸀  䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 刀攀搀 圀漀爀琀猀 漀爀 爀攀搀 圀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ(pp.1419). Reference is made to Conradus Gesnerus (Conrad Gesner) ਀挀愀氀氀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 瀀氀愀渀琀  ∀嘀椀琀甀猀 䤀搀攀愀 爀甀戀甀猀 愀攀洀椀猀∀ ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀 爀攀昀攀爀渀挀攀ഊto V. vitus idaea) which Gerard finds not to agree with the berry growth ਀搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 瀀氀愀渀琀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 眀攀 洀甀猀琀 瀀爀攀猀甀洀攀 洀漀爀攀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 琀漀 戀攀ഊV. oxycoccus). As his friend, Conrad Gesner was a Swiss naturalist, it is ਀攀砀瀀攀挀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 栀攀 攀渀挀漀甀渀琀攀爀攀搀 愀渀搀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 栀椀最栀氀愀渀搀ഊgrowing V. vitus idaea rather than the wet peat bog loving species V. ਀漀砀礀挀漀挀挀甀猀⸀ഊ ਀唀渀搀攀爀 ∀吀栀攀 嘀椀爀琀甀攀猀∀ ⠀瀀瀀⸀㄀㐀㄀㤀⤀ 䜀攀爀愀爀搀 眀爀椀琀攀猀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最㨀ഊThe juyce of the blacke Whortleberries is boyled till it become thick, and ਀椀猀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 漀爀 欀攀瀀琀 戀礀 愀搀搀椀渀最 栀漀渀礀 愀渀搀 昀甀最愀爀 瘀渀琀漀 椀琀∀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 洀甀挀栀 椀猀 栀漀眀 䤀 洀愀欀攀 樀攀氀氀椀攀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀愀甀挀攀⸀  䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀ഊthat Gerard may have misunderstood the black whortleberry (blueberry) for ਀琀栀攀⠀椀渀琀攀爀挀栀愀渀最愀戀氀攀⤀ 爀攀搀⸀  吀栀攀 琀栀椀挀欀攀渀椀渀最 椀猀 挀愀甀猀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 栀椀最栀攀爀 愀挀椀搀ഊcontentin the cranberry. You can not make blueberry jelly or blueberry sauce ਀戀礀 琀栀椀猀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 愀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 椀渀猀甀昀昀椀挀椀攀渀琀 瀀攀挀琀椀渀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 瘀攀渀琀甀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 愀 最漀漀搀ഊnumber of period recipes actually used cranberries instead of blueberries ਀琀栀爀漀甀最栀 洀椀猀琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀⸀  伀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 挀漀洀攀猀 琀漀 洀椀渀搀 眀愀猀 漀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 䘀䄀䈀唀䰀伀唀匀ഊFEASTS for Artichokes in Blueberry Rice. I would like to know from those ਀猀欀椀氀氀攀搀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀 椀昀 椀琀 椀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀栀愀琀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 洀椀猀琀愀欀攀渀氀礀ഊtranslated in that recipe. The gray-blue-purple hue of that dish is ghastly and ਀琀栀攀 琀愀猀琀攀 椀渀猀椀瀀椀搀⸀  圀栀攀爀攀愀猀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀甀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀椀琀栀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊwould have a handsome colour - as Gerard comments: that It produces ਀∀琀栀攀 昀愀椀爀攀猀琀 挀愀爀渀愀琀椀漀渀 挀漀氀漀甀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀∀⸀  吀栀攀 猀栀愀爀瀀渀攀猀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀ഊwould also likely produce a more agreeable flavour in the rice without any ਀猀甀最愀爀椀渀最 戀攀椀渀最 甀猀攀搀⸀  䄀渀礀漀渀攀 最愀洀攀 琀漀 琀爀礀 椀琀 漀甀琀㼀ഊ ਀吀漀 猀漀洀攀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 愀戀漀瘀攀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 猀氀攀渀搀攀爀 樀甀猀琀椀昀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 攀砀琀攀渀猀椀瘀攀ഊuse of the cranberry in period. However I can not accept that a two species ਀瀀氀愀渀琀 漀昀 眀椀搀攀猀瀀爀攀愀搀 搀椀猀琀爀椀戀甀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 愀渀搀 䄀猀椀愀 洀椀渀漀爀Ⰰ 椀渀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀 䄀 刀䔀䐀ഊBERRY!, would not be eaten. Especially as they keep far, far longer than other ਀昀爀攀猀栀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 搀爀椀攀搀 愀爀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 瀀愀氀愀琀愀戀氀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最⸀  䤀 瘀攀渀琀甀爀攀 琀栀攀礀ഊhave been an important foodstuff since Neolithic times. As to the sauce, when ਀琀栀攀 挀漀渀挀攀瀀琀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀爀甀椀琀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀渀攀礀 愀渀搀 焀甀椀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀愀爀洀愀氀愀搀攀猀 挀愀洀攀ഊabout, there was a great deal of experimentation with this new method. It was ਀瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 琀栀攀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀挀漀瘀攀爀礀 琀栀愀琀 戀漀椀氀攀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀甀昀昀椀挀攀渀琀氀礀 愀挀椀搀 琀漀 樀攀氀氀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 焀甀椀渀挀攀猀 漀昀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀攀挀琀椀渀 爀椀挀栀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 眀愀猀 洀愀搀攀⸀  䜀漀椀渀最 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀ഊfurther in my speculation on this fruit, I believe that the reason we do not see ਀琀栀椀猀 椀渀 洀愀椀渀猀琀爀攀愀洀 ∀洀愀樀漀爀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀 挀攀渀琀攀爀猀∀  椀猀 琀栀愀琀 眀椀氀搀 最愀琀栀攀爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 洀漀爀攀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 昀漀漀搀 昀漀爀 瀀攀愀猀愀渀琀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀 椀渀 瘀攀爀礀 爀甀爀愀氀 愀爀攀愀猀⸀  唀渀氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 洀愀樀漀爀 ⠀琀爀攀攀⤀ 昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀漀漀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 ⠀猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀琀栀⤀⸀   伀渀攀 洀愀樀漀爀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀漀 戀攀 眀椀搀攀氀礀 甀猀攀搀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 㐀　　 礀攀愀爀猀 昀爀漀洀 ㄀㈀　　 琀漀 ㄀㘀　　 眀攀爀攀 洀甀挀栀Ⰰ 洀甀挀栀 挀漀氀搀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀漀搀愀礀⸀  䄀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀攀搀 洀椀渀椀ⴀ䤀挀攀 䄀最攀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀搀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 琀椀洀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 椀搀攀愀氀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀搀攀爀 最爀漀眀椀渀最 挀漀渀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀 昀漀爀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀⸀ 䈀漀琀栀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 昀氀漀甀爀椀猀栀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 挀氀椀洀愀琀椀挀 挀栀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 洀漀瘀椀渀最 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀琀栀 椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 搀椀猀琀爀椀戀甀琀椀漀渀 椀渀琀漀 猀漀甀琀栀攀爀渀 䘀爀愀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 一漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䤀琀愀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 挀漀洀攀猀 昀甀氀氀 挀椀爀挀氀攀 渀漀眀 眀椀琀栀 挀漀氀搀 眀攀愀琀栀攀爀 挀氀椀洀愀琀攀猀 ⠀琀栀攀 嘀椀欀椀渀最 挀甀椀猀椀渀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀 眀愀猀 瀀爀椀洀愀爀椀氀礀 攀愀琀攀渀 甀渀挀漀漀欀攀搀⸀  吀栀椀猀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀ഊbeen fresh or dried. I have seen references to sweetened lingonberries (dried?) ਀攀愀琀攀渀 眀椀琀栀 瘀攀渀椀猀漀渀 椀渀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 洀甀渀搀愀渀攀 匀挀愀渀搀愀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀攀ഊsubject of old foods of Scandinavia. Has anyone seen any period references? ਀⠀琀栀攀 最攀猀琀 漀昀 洀礀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 焀甀攀爀礀⤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀漀瀀攀 琀栀椀猀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 ⠀漀爀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 愀洀甀猀椀渀最 椀渀 洀礀 瀀爀攀猀甀洀瀀琀椀漀渀猀⤀ 琀漀ഊsome and will encourage a little rummaging around to see if my beliefs have any ਀栀漀瀀攀 漀昀 瘀愀氀椀搀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀䄀欀椀洀 夀愀爀漀猀氀愀瘀椀挀栀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:06:53 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀椀愀渀愀∀ 㰀琀愀渀琀爀愀 愀琀 漀瀀琀漀渀氀椀渀攀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Re: Period Norse ਀ഊOn Sun, 5 Mar 2000, RANDALL DIAMOND wrote: ਀㸀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀ഊ> ocassionally but never in any other form in the US. In answer to your ਀㸀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 礀攀猀Ⰰ 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀  吀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀 昀漀漀搀 椀渀ഊ> Northern Europe since Neolithic ages. ਀ഊI know of lingonberry syrup, and I thought canned - check out your local ਀䤀䬀䔀䄀 椀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 漀渀攀⸀  䤀昀 渀漀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 搀漀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 洀愀椀氀 漀爀搀攀爀ഊbusiness. Of course, having the inch and a half catalog delivered to your ਀栀漀洀攀 栀攀氀瀀猀℀ഊ ਀䐀椀愀渀愀 搀✀䄀瘀椀最渀漀渀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:09:00 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀刀䄀一䐀䄀䰀䰀 䐀䤀䄀䴀伀一䐀∀ 㰀爀椀渀最漀昀欀椀渀最猀 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Re: PLATINA Date Pie Long ਀ഊHauviette asks:***Someone posted (was it Bear?) ਀ 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀搀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀椀愀渀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 渀漀琀 琀漀 ഊbe currants but actually were a specific type ਀漀昀 爀愀椀猀椀渀⸀ 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀椀昀攀 漀昀 洀攀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 ഊthe type and rationale, if someone recognizes this ਀瀀氀攀愀猀攀 瀀漀猀琀 椀渀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀一漀 爀愀琀椀漀渀愀氀攀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 昀愀挀琀⸀  䤀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 挀甀氀瀀爀椀琀 愀渀搀 愀甀琀栀漀爀  漀昀ഊthat particular post. What are marked as "currants" like ਀∀娀愀渀琀攀∀ 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 戀礀 匀甀渀 䴀愀椀搀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀琀 愀氀氀⸀  吀栀攀猀攀ഊraisins are made from a very tiny varietal of black grapes originally ਀最爀漀眀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瘀椀挀椀渀椀琀礀 漀昀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀Ⰰ 漀爀 ∀䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 最爀愀瀀攀猀∀⸀  䈀漀琀愀渀椀挀愀氀氀礀ഊgenuine currants come in white, red or black but you can not ਀洀愀欀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀洀⸀  吀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀漀 栀椀最栀 愀 眀愀琀攀爀 琀漀 昀氀攀猀栀ഊratio and are primarily seen only as a jelly product and only rarely ਀昀爀攀猀栀⸀  吀漀 洀礀 欀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀猀攀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 最爀愀瀀攀猀 愀爀攀 眀栀愀琀 栀愀瘀攀ഊbeen used throughout the medieval and Renaissance period ਀椀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀愀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀∀⸀  䄀挀琀甀愀氀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 ഊalmost certainly gathered from the wild as they were not ਀搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀琀攀搀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀琀栀 漀爀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  䈀氀愀挀欀ഊcurrants were the wild types growing throughout central ਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀⸀  䔀砀琀爀愀挀琀猀 愀渀搀 氀椀焀甀漀爀猀 ⠀挀愀猀猀椀猀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀椀爀 洀愀椀渀 甀猀攀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊthan as fresh berries. Red types were domesticated (or were ਀搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀㼀㼀㼀⤀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀栀椀琀攀 搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀ഊas a mutant from the red much later. To clear up the confusion ਀椀渀 渀漀洀攀渀挀氀愀琀甀爀攀Ⰰ ㄀㜀琀栀 愀渀搀 ㄀㠀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ....currants and Corinth "currants"...."raisins of the sun". ਀ഊAkim Yaroslavich ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㄀㠀 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　　 ㈀㈀㨀㈀㄀㨀　　 ⴀ　　　　ഊFrom: "=?windows-1257?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 倀䰀䄀吀䤀一䄀 䐀愀琀攀 倀椀攀 䰀漀渀最ഊ ਀䄀欀椀洀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>What are marked as "currants" like ਀㸀∀娀愀渀琀攀∀ 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 戀礀 匀甀渀 䴀愀椀搀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀琀 愀氀氀⸀ഊ ਀䐀攀瀀攀渀搀猀 漀渀 栀漀眀 礀漀甀 氀漀漀欀 愀琀 椀琀⸀ 䤀渀 洀礀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 戀氀愀挀欀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰഊredcurrants etc., which are not currants at all, especially as English is as ਀昀愀爀 愀猀 䤀 挀愀渀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀 琀栀愀琀 甀猀攀猀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊRibes genus. The small dried raisins are the original currants. ਀ഊ"... but when various fruit bushes of the genus Ribes were introduced into ਀䈀爀椀琀愀椀渀 昀爀漀洀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 猀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀ഊmisconception arose that the familiar dried currants were made from their ਀昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 眀愀猀 琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀搀愀礀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 戀氀愀挀欀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰഊredcurrants, etc. ... One of the first references to them in English is made ਀椀渀 一椀攀眀攀 䠀攀爀戀愀氀氀 漀爀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀攀 漀昀 倀氀愀渀琀攀猀 ⠀㄀㔀㜀㠀⤀ 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀搀 戀礀 䠀攀渀爀礀 䰀礀琀攀 眀栀漀Ⰰഊrealizing that they are members of the gooseberry family, calls them ਀∀戀攀礀漀渀搀ⴀ猀攀愀猀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀∀⸀ 䈀甀琀 栀攀 挀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 昀漀爀戀攀愀爀 琀漀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊname "currant" was already catching on - "bastard currants", was his term. ਀䄀琀 昀椀爀猀琀 瀀甀爀椀猀琀猀Ⰰ 氀椀渀最甀椀猀琀椀挀 愀渀搀 栀漀爀琀椀挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀Ⰰ 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 搀椀猀挀漀甀爀愀最攀 琀栀攀ഊusage - John Gerard disapproved of it, and John Parkinson wrote, in A Garden ਀漀昀 䘀氀漀眀攀爀猀 ⠀㄀㘀㈀㤀⤀㨀 ∀吀栀漀猀攀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⸀⸀⸀ 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀ഊthose currans ... that are sold at the Grocers" - but by the late ਀猀攀瘀攀渀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 椀琀 栀愀搀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 昀椀爀洀氀礀 攀猀琀愀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀⸀∀ ⠀䨀漀栀渀 䄀礀琀漀Ⰰ 䄀ഊGourmet's Guide) ਀ഊ>To clear up the confusion ਀㸀椀渀 渀漀洀攀渀挀氀愀琀甀爀攀Ⰰ ㄀㜀琀栀 愀渀搀 ㄀㠀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ>....currants and Corinth "currants"...."raisins of the sun". ਀ഊKaren Hess, in Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery, defines currans as "the ਀搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 愀 搀眀愀爀昀 最爀愀瀀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䰀攀瘀愀渀琀 ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀爀ഊcurrants) and raysons of the sun as sun-dried grapes (i.e. raisins). There ਀猀栀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 戀攀 愀渀礀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀漀渀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀 瀀漀猀琀ⴀ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀ഊrecipes, since other languages use other names for berries of the Ribes ਀最攀渀甀猀 ⠀愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀琀甀洀戀氀椀渀最 戀氀漀挀欀猀㬀 猀漀洀攀 匀漀甀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀ഊlanguages call these berries gooseberries (beyond-seas gooseberries or ਀眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀⤀⸀ഊ ਀一愀渀渀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:40:05 -0000 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 渀愀渀渀愀 愀琀 椀搀甀渀渀⸀椀猀 ⠀一愀渀渀愀 刀漀最渀瘀愀氀搀愀爀搀漀琀琀椀爀⤀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Re: currants ਀ഊCairistiona wrote: ਀㸀吀栀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀Ⰰ 椀猀渀✀琀 娀愀渀琀攀 愀渀 椀猀氀愀渀搀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 挀氀漀猀攀 琀漀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀Ⰰ 漀爀 栀愀猀 洀礀 戀爀愀椀渀ഊ>gone wandering again? ਀ഊIt is indeed one of the Aegan islands and Edgar Allan Poe once wrote a ਀猀漀渀渀攀琀 琀漀 椀琀⸀ 娀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 愀爀攀 最爀漀眀渀 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 昀漀爀 搀爀礀椀渀最 椀渀琀漀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 琀椀搀戀椀琀 椀渀 䌀⸀ 䄀渀渀攀 圀椀氀猀漀渀✀猀 䘀漀漀搀 愀渀搀 䐀爀椀渀欀ഊin Britain - she is quoting the Venetian ambassador to Britain, writing home ਀椀渀 ㄀㘀㄀　Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 昀攀愀爀 漀昀 愀 爀攀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 䜀爀攀攀欀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 攀砀瀀漀爀琀猀㨀ഊ ਀∀匀甀挀栀 愀 琀栀椀渀最 挀愀渀渀漀琀 琀愀欀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 搀椀猀挀漀渀琀攀渀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 攀渀琀椀爀攀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀ഊof England, which consumes a greater amount of this fruit than all the rest ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀㬀 戀攀椀渀最 愀挀挀甀猀琀漀洀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 氀甀砀甀爀礀 愀渀搀 氀漀瘀椀渀最 椀琀 猀漀 搀攀愀爀氀礀 琀栀愀琀ഊindividuals have been found who, from lack of money to purchase it on ਀挀攀爀琀愀椀渀 栀椀最栀 搀愀礀猀 愀渀搀 栀漀氀礀 搀愀礀猀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 挀甀猀琀漀洀愀爀礀 昀愀爀攀Ⰰ 愀爀攀 猀愀椀搀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀ഊgone out and hanged themselves." ਀ഊNanna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀　 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　　 　㄀㨀　㈀㨀㄀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "RANDALL DIAMOND" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 瘀猀 娀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀  ⠀䰀漀渀最 爀攀瀀氀礀⤀ഊ ਀㸀㸀 吀漀 挀氀攀愀爀 甀瀀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀漀渀 椀渀 渀漀洀攀渀挀氀愀琀甀爀攀Ⰰ ㄀㜀琀栀ഊ>>and 18th century cookbooks called currants ਀㸀㸀  ⸀⸀⸀⸀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀渀搀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀∀⸀⸀⸀⸀∀爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀甀渀∀⸀ഊ>> ਀㸀㸀  䄀欀椀洀 夀愀爀漀猀氀愀瘀椀挀栀ഊ ਀䠀愀甀瘀椀攀琀琀攀 爀攀瀀氀椀攀搀㨀ഊ>Thank you for the fill in Akim. Do you mind if I include ਀㸀琀栀椀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀攀渀甀 愀渀搀 昀攀愀猀琀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 䤀 愀洀ഊpreparing? I'll be doing a feast at war for TRM's Dag and ਀㸀䔀氀愀礀渀愀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀 倀氀愀琀椀渀愀⸀ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀漀瘀攀 琀漀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀 礀漀甀ഊ>give me here to those who will get the write up. It is ਀㸀椀渀瘀愀氀甀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀 琀栀攀 攀琀礀洀漀氀漀最礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 甀猀攀 漀昀ഊthe word in period vs modern interpretation. ਀ഊOh, please feel free to use it if you like. I can't guarantee ਀琀栀愀琀 洀礀 搀愀琀愀 椀猀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀氀礀Ⰰ 椀渀昀愀氀氀愀戀氀礀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀昀漀爀攀Ⰰ 䤀ഊsuggest you decide what to use only after mulling the ਀昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 愀爀最甀洀攀渀琀猀㨀ഊ ਀一愀渀渀愀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀攀搀㨀ഊ>Depends on how you look at it. In my opinion, it is ਀㸀戀氀愀挀欀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 爀攀搀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 攀琀挀⸀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ>at all, especially as English is as far as I can recall the ਀㸀漀渀氀礀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀 琀栀愀琀 甀猀攀猀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ>Ribes genus. The small dried raisins are the original currants. ਀ഊI disagree. From my point of view, currans or currants are ਀猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 渀愀洀攀 漀昀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀椀戀攀猀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀Ⰰഊred, white and black. This name was derived (in English) ਀眀栀攀渀 刀椀戀攀猀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 漀爀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀ഊa little earlier (say mid 15th) as the English became familiar ਀眀椀琀栀 刀椀戀攀猀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀椀渀攀渀琀⸀   吀栀攀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀攀爀洀猀ഊ"raysons of the sun" or "Zant raisins" probably preceded ਀琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀∀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀⸀ഊ ਀㸀∀⸀⸀⸀ 戀甀琀 眀栀攀渀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 昀爀甀椀琀 戀甀猀栀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最攀渀甀猀 刀椀戀攀猀ഊ>were introduced into Britain from northern Europe in ਀㸀琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀 猀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 洀椀猀挀漀渀挀攀瀀琀椀漀渀ഊ>arose that the familiar dried currants were made from their ਀㸀昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 眀愀猀 琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀漀搀愀礀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀ഊ>blackcurrants, redcurrants, etc. ... One of the first references ਀㸀琀漀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 一椀攀眀攀 䠀攀爀戀愀氀氀 漀爀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀攀 漀昀ഊ>Plantes (1578) translated by Henry Lyte who, realizing that ਀㸀琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀礀 昀愀洀椀氀礀Ⰰ 挀愀氀氀猀 琀栀攀洀ഊ>"beyond-seas gooseberries". But he could not forbear to ਀㸀洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀∀ 眀愀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 挀愀琀挀栀椀渀最 漀渀 ⴀഊ>"bastard currants", was his term. ਀ഊIn terms of accurate botany, Lyte is best largely ignored ਀愀猀 愀 猀漀甀爀挀攀⸀  䰀礀琀攀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 ∀爀攀愀氀椀稀攀∀ 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最⸀  䠀攀 眀愀猀 洀漀猀琀氀礀ഊan amateur gardener who wrote nothing original, merely ਀琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 漀氀搀攀爀 䌀爀甀礀搀攀戀漀攀挀欀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 眀攀氀氀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀氀氀 漀瘀攀爀ഊcontiniental Europe, from the L'Ecluse French translation into ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀Ⰰ 戀漀爀爀漀眀椀渀最 栀攀愀瘀椀氀礀 昀爀漀洀 圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 吀甀爀渀攀爀⸀  䠀攀 椀猀ഊconsidered important in the history of English gardening ਀洀愀椀渀氀礀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 栀攀 椀渀挀漀爀瀀漀爀愀琀攀搀 愀 搀椀愀爀礀ⴀ氀椀欀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀愀爀礀 漀昀ഊjust where he saw these plants growing in England in detail. ਀吀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 愀渀 椀渀瘀愀氀甀愀戀氀攀 爀攀挀漀爀搀 戀甀琀 猀挀愀爀挀攀氀礀 愀挀愀搀攀洀椀挀⸀ 䠀椀猀ഊcomments on "beyond seas gooseberries" are relatively ਀甀渀椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀㸀䄀琀 昀椀爀猀琀 瀀甀爀椀猀琀猀Ⰰ 氀椀渀最甀椀猀琀椀挀 愀渀搀 栀漀爀琀椀挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀Ⰰ 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀ഊ>discourage the usage - John Gerard disapproved of it, and ਀䨀漀栀渀 倀愀爀欀椀渀猀漀渀 眀爀漀琀攀Ⰰ 椀渀 䄀 䜀愀爀搀攀渀 漀昀 䘀氀漀眀攀爀猀 ⠀㄀㘀㈀㤀⤀㨀ഊ>"Those berries ... usually called red currans are not those ਀㸀挀甀爀爀愀渀猀 ⸀⸀⸀ 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 猀漀氀搀 愀琀 琀栀攀 䜀爀漀挀攀爀猀∀ ⴀ 戀甀琀 戀礀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀攀ഊ>seventeenth century it had become firmly established." ਀㸀⠀䨀漀栀渀 䄀礀琀漀Ⰰ 䄀 䜀漀甀爀洀攀琀✀猀 䜀甀椀搀攀⤀ഊ ਀夀攀猀Ⰰ 䜀攀爀愀爀搀 搀椀搀 搀椀猀愀瀀瀀爀漀瘀攀 漀昀 椀琀 戀甀琀 栀攀 愀氀猀漀 眀愀猀ഊconvinced there was a tree from which live geese ਀眀攀爀攀 栀愀琀挀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 戀愀爀渀愀挀氀攀猀 琀漀漀℀ 伀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀猀ഊwas that Ribes was fairly late being described in ਀挀漀渀琀椀渀攀渀琀愀氀 栀攀爀戀愀氀猀 愀猀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 挀漀漀氀 眀攀愀琀栀攀爀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀ഊin areas where agriculture was late in flourishing. The ਀瀀氀愀渀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 搀攀瀀椀挀琀攀搀 甀渀琀椀氀 ㄀㐀㠀㐀 椀渀 愀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀 瀀甀戀氀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀ഊ- - Mainz Herbarius, but by the next century Jean Ruel, a ਀䘀爀攀渀挀栀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 眀愀猀 瀀爀愀椀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 栀椀最栀氀礀 戀漀琀栀 愀猀 愀渀ഊornamental and for their fruit. Gerard grossly described ਀琀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀 栀攀 猀愀眀 ⠀愀渀搀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 最爀攀眀⤀ 愀猀 愀 ∀猀瀀椀渀攀氀攀猀猀ഊkind of gooseberry". Thomas Johnson in the 1633 revision ਀漀昀 䜀攀爀愀爀搀✀猀 䠀攀爀戀愀氀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀搀 愀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀ഊcurrants (Ribes) correcting the rather sloppy treatment by ਀䜀攀爀愀爀搀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㤀㜀⸀  䠀攀 爀攀瀀攀愀琀攀搀 攀猀猀攀渀琀椀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀ഊstatement you quoted from Ayto in it, but this statement ਀搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀 洀攀愀渀 琀栀愀琀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀猀∀ 眀愀猀 愀搀愀瀀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀ഊname for Zant raisins. As you have said, the other languages ਀栀愀搀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 渀愀洀攀猀⸀  ∀䌀甀爀爀愀渀猀∀ 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 琀漀琀愀氀氀礀 愀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ഊusage. It is more consistant that the popular belief was that ਀娀愀渀琀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 眀攀爀攀 搀爀椀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ(Ribes) were the fresh version of what had been for some time ਀洀愀爀欀攀琀攀搀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 娀愀渀琀攀⸀ 䄀昀琀攀爀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 刀椀戀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 挀漀洀洀漀渀ഊin the wild on the continient and were being cultivated early in ਀琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ഊ ਀㸀䬀愀爀攀渀 䠀攀猀猀Ⰰ 椀渀 䴀愀爀琀栀愀 圀愀猀栀椀渀最琀漀渀✀猀 䈀漀漀欀攀 漀昀 䌀漀漀欀攀爀礀Ⰰഊ>defines currans as "the dried fruit of a dwarf grape from ਀㸀琀栀攀 䰀攀瘀愀渀琀 ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀爀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀⤀ 愀渀搀 爀愀礀猀漀渀猀 漀昀ഊ>the sun as sun-dried grapes (i.e. raisins). There shouldn't ਀㸀戀攀 愀渀礀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀漀渀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀 瀀漀猀琀ⴀ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀ഊ>recipes, since other languages use other names for berries ਀㸀漀昀 琀栀攀 刀椀戀攀猀 最攀渀甀猀 ⠀愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀琀甀洀戀氀椀渀最ഊ>blocks; some Southern European languages call these berries ਀㸀最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀戀攀礀漀渀搀ⴀ猀攀愀猀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀爀 眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀⤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 䬀愀爀攀渀 䠀攀猀猀 椀猀 眀爀漀渀最 漀爀 挀漀渀昀甀猀攀搀⸀ ∀刀愀礀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀甀渀∀ഊwas a term for dried Corinth grapes or popularly "currants" in ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⸀   吀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 搀爀椀攀搀 最爀愀瀀攀猀 眀愀猀 愀渀搀 椀猀 甀渀愀戀椀最甀椀漀甀猀ഊand another term was not necessary or useful. If some distant ਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 琀栀攀猀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 漀昀 椀琀㼀  吀栀攀ഊEnglish (and the gooseberry is mostly admired in England, ਀渀漀琀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀椀渀攀渀琀⤀ 栀愀搀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 渀漀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 椀渀 瀀爀漀瀀攀爀ഊidentification of a gooseberry. And further, the English did not ਀挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀ 琀漀 戀攀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀琀 愀氀氀⸀  䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀ഊplants were included in the 1629 supplies of the Massachusetts ਀䈀愀礀 䌀漀氀漀渀礀⸀  吀栀攀礀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 挀漀渀昀甀猀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀∀ഊThey were immensely popular by that time and spread throughout ਀琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 挀漀氀漀渀椀攀猀 椀渀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 瘀攀爀礀 焀甀椀挀欀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀䠀愀甀瘀椀攀琀琀攀 愀猀欀猀㨀ഊ>Just to clarify; the "dried currants" available in bulk ਀㸀昀漀漀搀 猀琀漀爀攀猀 攀琀挀Ⰰ 爀攀愀氀氀礀 愀爀攀渀✀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 愀猀ഊ>you and Ras have pointed out, Zante raisins? ਀ഊI still am not quite happy with the nomenclature still being used. ਀刀愀猀 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀猀 愀爀攀 猀琀椀氀氀 洀椀砀椀渀最 琀攀爀洀猀⸀   吀漀 猀甀洀洀攀爀椀稀攀 洀礀 漀眀渀 瘀椀攀眀㨀ഊ1. Sunkist type currants .....are raisins of Corinth grapes grown ਀     漀渀 琀栀攀 椀猀氀愀渀搀 漀昀 娀愀渀琀攀⸀ഊ2. Raisins ....are sun dried grapes.....always. ਀㌀   ∀刀愀礀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀甀渀∀ ⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀愀爀攀 愀  瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 ㄀㜀琀栀 愀渀搀 ㄀㠀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀ഊ term for raisins of Corinth grapes from Corinth or Zante to help ਀      搀椀猀琀椀渀甀最甀椀猀栀 琀栀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀⸀  吀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀ഊ was used in the 16th century as well but not so extensively. ਀㐀⸀  䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⸀⸀⸀⸀愀爀攀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 刀椀戀攀猀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 甀猀攀搀 昀爀攀猀栀Ⰰ 椀渀 樀攀氀氀礀Ⰰഊ jams and wines. Only a reference to DRIED fruit does the ਀      琀攀爀洀 ⠀椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⤀  洀攀愀渀 娀愀渀琀攀 最爀愀瀀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀⸀  䤀渀 䐀刀䤀䔀䐀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰഊ it NEVER means Ribes berries. ਀㔀⸀   吀栀攀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 最攀琀 琀栀椀猀 挀漀渀昀甀猀攀搀 愀渀搀ഊ switched in meaning but this does not mean the instance ਀      眀愀猀 爀攀昀氀攀挀琀椀瘀攀 漀昀 愀 甀渀椀瘀攀爀猀愀氀 甀猀愀最攀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀  䤀琀 洀攀愀渀猀ഊ more likely that someone was confused over the origin or ਀      椀搀攀渀琀椀琀礀 漀爀 戀漀琀栀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 栀攀 眀愀猀 甀猀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䤀 洀愀礀 戀攀 瀀爀漀瘀攀渀 眀爀漀渀最 漀渀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀猀 眀椀琀栀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰഊbut what I have at hand leads me to my currant (pun intended) ਀瀀漀猀椀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 戀攀爀爀礀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀 椀猀猀甀攀⸀ഊ ਀䄀欀椀洀 夀愀爀漀猀氀愀瘀椀挀栀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:37:50 EDT ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀爀搀刀愀猀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Re: Currants vs Zante raisins (Long reply) ਀ഊringofkings at mindspring.com writes: ਀㰀㰀 吀栀攀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀攀爀洀猀ഊ "raysons of the sun" or "Zant raisins" probably preceded ਀ 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 ∀挀甀爀爀愀渀∀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀⸀ 㸀㸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 椀猀 椀渀挀漀爀爀攀挀琀⸀ 刀愀椀猀漀渀 漀昀 䌀漀爀愀甀渀琀攀㴀爀愀椀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 挀漀甀爀愀渀挀攀㴀挀漀甀爀愀渀挀攀㴀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ഊis the basic etymology. Currants (Ribes berries) as we know them clearly were ਀一伀吀 眀栀愀琀 眀愀猀 洀攀愀渀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀漀漀欀攀爀礀 洀愀渀甀愀氀猀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 ഊdiscussed before on the list and Stefan should have an extensive file ਀挀漀瘀攀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀⸀ ഊ ਀娀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 ⠀爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀昀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 眀椀搀攀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 ഊcontinent during the middle ages and appear in all of the cookery manuals ਀䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀 洀愀樀漀爀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀爀 漀昀 娀愀渀琀攀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀⸀ 䄀 挀甀爀猀漀爀礀 氀漀漀欀 ഊat the History of Food, Food in History and other works including Nana's ਀攀砀栀愀甀猀琀椀瘀攀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 眀椀氀氀 猀栀漀眀 琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 眀椀搀攀氀礀 欀渀漀眀渀 ഊoutside their natural range until well outside SCA period. It was at that ਀琀椀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 搀椀洀椀渀甀琀椀瘀攀 ✀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀✀ 眀愀猀 琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀椀戀攀猀 ഊplant. ਀ഊ>From Miriam-Webster: ਀ഊcur*rant (noun). [Middle English raison of Coraunte, literally, raisin of ਀䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀崀⸀ 䘀椀爀猀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀 ㄀㐀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ ㄀ 㨀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 猀攀攀搀氀攀猀猀 爀愀椀猀椀渀 最爀漀眀渀 ഊchiefly in the Levant. ਀ഊRas ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀　 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㐀㨀㐀㄀㨀㈀㜀 ⴀ　　　　ഊFrom: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir) ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 瘀猀 娀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀  ⠀䰀漀渀最 爀攀瀀氀礀⤀ഊ ਀䄀欀椀洀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ ਀㸀䤀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀⸀  䘀爀漀洀 洀礀 瀀漀椀渀琀 漀昀 瘀椀攀眀Ⰰ 挀甀爀爀愀渀猀 漀爀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀爀攀ഊspecifically the English name of berries of the Ribes species, ਀爀攀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀琀攀 愀渀搀 戀氀愀挀欀⸀  吀栀椀猀 渀愀洀攀 眀愀猀 搀攀爀椀瘀攀搀 ⠀椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⤀ഊwhen Ribes plants were introduced into England or perhaps ਀愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 ⠀猀愀礀 洀椀搀 ㄀㔀琀栀⤀ 愀猀 琀栀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 戀攀挀愀洀攀 昀愀洀椀氀椀愀爀ഊwith Ribes berries on the continent. The separate terms ਀∀爀愀礀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀甀渀∀ 漀爀 ∀娀愀渀琀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀∀ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 瀀爀攀挀攀搀攀搀ഊthe term "curran" in the English language. ਀ഊMaybe I'm misunderstanding something (my command of English isn't always as ਀最漀漀搀 愀猀 䤀✀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀 椀猀⤀ 戀甀琀 愀爀攀 礀漀甀 猀愀礀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀猀 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊforms of the term originally meant berries of the Ribes genus? And that any ਀瀀爀攀ⴀ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 挀甀爀爀愀渀⠀琀⤀猀 椀猀 琀漀 戀攀 椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀攀搀 愀猀 洀攀愀渀椀渀最ഊthese berries, never dried grapes? ਀ഊLet's for the sake of argument suppose you are correct and that the berries ਀愀爀攀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀猀攀Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 搀椀搀 琀栀攀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 渀愀洀攀 挀漀洀攀ഊfrom? "derived (in English) when Ribes plants were introduced into England ਀漀爀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀∀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 猀愀礀 戀甀琀 搀攀爀椀瘀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 眀栀愀琀㼀 䔀瘀攀爀礀ഊdictionary and ethymological source I've consulted links currant directly ਀眀椀琀栀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 ⴀ 猀漀 眀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀欀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀猀攀 一漀爀琀栀攀爀渀ഊEuropean berries? They have very dissimilar names in other languages (for ਀椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀 爀椀戀猀戀爀⼀猀漀氀戀爀Ⰰ 爀椀瀀猀Ⰰ 瘀椀渀戠　爀Ⰰ 䨀漀栀愀渀渀椀猀戀攀攀爀攀Ⰰ 最爀漀猀攀椀氀氀攀猀Ⰰ 挀愀猀猀椀猀Ⰰഊribes, etc. ਀ഊI'm not sure how old the term Zante currants/raisins is but I haven't seen ਀椀琀 椀渀 愀渀礀 漀氀搀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 礀攀琀⸀ 䄀渀搀 娀愀渀琀攀 椀猀 漀渀氀礀 漀渀攀 漀昀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀ഊcurrants available - the best quality are generally thought to be Vostizza ਀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰ 戀氀愀挀欀 愀渀搀 猀眀攀攀琀⸀ 娀愀渀琀攀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 洀攀搀椀甀洀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀⸀ 䤀ഊthink they are mostly grown in the US and Australia now but I may be wrong ਀琀栀攀爀攀 ⴀ 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 娀愀渀琀攀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 䤀 攀瘀攀爀 猀攀攀 愀爀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀⸀ഊ ਀㸀䤀渀 琀攀爀洀猀 漀昀 愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀 戀漀琀愀渀礀Ⰰ 䰀礀琀攀 椀猀 戀攀猀琀 氀愀爀最攀氀礀 椀最渀漀爀攀搀ഊas a source. Lyte didn't "realize" anything. ਀ഊOh, I don't know. Myself, I'm not even an amateur gardener but even I ਀爀攀愀氀椀稀攀搀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 戀礀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀 爀攀搀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀渀搀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀ഊrelated, long before anyone told me they both belonged to the Ribes genus, ਀猀漀 眀栀漀 欀渀漀眀猀 眀栀愀琀 䴀爀⸀ 䰀礀琀攀 洀椀最栀琀 栀愀瘀攀 爀攀愀氀椀稀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀㸀∀䌀甀爀爀愀渀猀∀ 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 琀漀琀愀氀氀礀 愀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ഊ>usage. It is more consistant that the popular belief was that ਀㸀娀愀渀琀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 眀攀爀攀 搀爀椀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⠀刀椀戀攀猀⤀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ>(Ribes) were the fresh version of what had been for some time ਀㸀洀愀爀欀攀琀攀搀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 娀愀渀琀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 猀攀攀渀 愀渀礀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 娀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 漀爀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀ഊthat in pre-16 century sources - can you cite a specific source? I agree ਀琀栀愀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀猀⼀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 漀爀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀攀爀洀猀Ⰰ 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀椀戀攀猀 最攀渀甀猀Ⰰഊis totally an English usage. But that doesn't hold true for the dried grapes ਀⠀䤀挀攀氀⸀ 欀㼀爀攀渀渀甀爀⼀欀爀椀渀渀甀爀Ⰰ 䐀愀渀椀猀栀 欀漀爀攀渀搀攀爀Ⰰ 匀眀攀搀椀猀栀 欀漀爀椀渀琀攀爀Ⰰ 䜀攀爀洀愀渀ഊKorinthen, for instance). ਀ഊ>I think Karen Hess is wrong or confused. ਀ഊBut in the recipe she is commenting on, currants are clearly the dried ਀昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 昀爀攀猀栀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀㸀∀刀愀礀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀甀渀∀ഊ>was a term for dried Corinth grapes or popularly "currants" in ਀㸀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⸀  吀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 搀爀椀攀搀 最爀愀瀀攀猀 眀愀猀 愀渀搀 椀猀 甀渀愀戀椀最甀椀漀甀猀ഊand another term was not necessary or useful. ਀ഊIt is unambiguous now but was it always so? After all, English got the term ਀∀爀愀椀猀椀渀∀ 昀爀漀洀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 椀琀 洀攀愀渀琀 ⠀愀渀搀 洀攀愀渀猀⤀ 最爀愀瀀攀 ⴀ 愀 爀愀椀猀椀渀 椀猀 ∀爀愀椀猀椀渀ഊsec" in French. Both terms (grape and raisin) entered the English language ਀愀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 琀椀洀攀 ⠀㄀㌀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⤀Ⰰ 爀攀瀀氀愀挀椀渀最 琀栀攀 伀氀搀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 琀攀爀洀ഊwinberiga (wine berry; the closely related term v?nber is still used in ਀䤀挀攀氀愀渀搀椀挀⤀⸀ 匀漀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 戀攀 猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 椀昀 琀栀攀爀攀 栀愀搀 椀渀搀攀攀搀 戀攀攀渀 猀漀洀攀ഊconfusion for quite some time. ਀ഊJust to add even more to the confusion, there are also Corinthian raisins, ਀眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 ⠀搀爀椀攀搀⤀ 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ⴀ 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 猀甀氀琀愀渀愀猀Ⰰ 昀愀椀爀氀礀ഊlarge, dark golden, and very sweet and tasty. ਀ഊNanna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 㔀 䄀甀最 ㈀　　　 ㄀㌀㨀㐀㌀㨀㄀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Jenne Heise ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 倀爀漀琀攀挀琀漀爀愀琀攀 䘀攀愀猀琀ഊ ਀㸀 㰀㰀 䌀漀爀爀攀挀琀 洀攀 椀昀 䤀 愀洀 眀爀漀渀最 戀甀琀 愀爀攀渀✀琀 䈀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 渀攀眀 眀漀爀氀搀㼀 㸀㸀ഊ> That and the topic of cranberries is a perpetual argument on this list. My ਀㸀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 椀猀 礀攀猀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 愀渀搀 礀攀猀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀⸀ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 渀攀瘀攀爀 琀栀椀渀欀 漀昀ഊ> serving either at a feast. ਀ഊHm. that sparks my curiousity, so I went looking for information in the EB ਀愀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 伀䔀䐀 ⠀漀欀Ⰰ 猀漀 眀攀 樀甀猀琀 最漀琀 愀 猀甀戀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 渀攀眀渀攀猀猀 栀愀猀渀✀琀 眀漀爀渀ഊoff, what can I say?!) ਀ഊOxford English dictionary says: ਀ഊCranberry: ਀ഊ"The fruit of a dwarf shrub, Vaccinium Oxycoccos, a native of Britain, ਀一漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀Ⰰ 匀椀戀攀爀椀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 一⸀ 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀Ⰰ 最爀漀眀椀渀最 椀渀 琀甀爀昀礀 戀漀最猀㨀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀Ⰰഊroundish, dark red, very acid berry. Also the similar but larger fruit of ਀嘀⸀ 洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀Ⰰ 愀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 漀昀 一⸀ 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 ⠀氀愀爀最攀 漀爀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀⤀⸀ 䈀漀琀栀ഊare used for tarts, preserves, etc. The name is also given to the shrubs ਀琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀搀漀瀀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀ഊcolonists from some LG. source, and brought to England with the American ਀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀嘀⸀ 洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀漀渀⤀Ⰰ 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀搀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 椀渀 ㄀㘀㠀㘀Ⰰ∀ഊ ਀∀戀氀甀攀ⴀ戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 猀瀀攀挀椀攀猀 漀昀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀ഊthe American V. corymbosum;" ਀ഊThe Encyclopedia Brittanica lists only N.American species of Vaccinum as ਀✀戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀礀✀ 戀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀琀 猀愀礀猀㨀 ∀昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 愀渀礀 漀昀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 猀洀愀氀氀ഊcreeping or trailing plants of the genus Vaccinium (family Ericaceae), ਀爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 猀洀愀氀氀ⴀ昀爀甀椀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀爀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀Ⰰ 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 ⠀嘀⸀ഊoxycoccus) is found in marshy land in northern North America and Asia and ਀椀渀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 愀渀搀 挀攀渀琀爀愀氀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀⸀∀ഊ ਀伀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 栀愀渀搀Ⰰ 椀琀✀猀 攀砀瀀愀渀猀椀瘀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀栀漀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀礀㨀ഊ"also called WHORTLEBERRY (Vaccinium myrtillus), low-growing ਀搀攀挀椀搀甀漀甀猀 猀栀爀甀戀 戀攀氀漀渀最椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀攀 昀愀洀椀氀礀 䔀爀椀挀愀挀攀愀攀⸀ 䤀琀 椀猀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀ഊwoods and on heaths, chiefly in hilly districts of Great Britain, ਀渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䄀猀椀愀⸀∀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 伀䔀䐀 猀愀礀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀㨀ഊ" 1. The fruit of a dwarf hardy shrub (Vaccinium Myrtillus), ਀愀戀甀渀搀愀渀琀 漀渀 栀攀愀琀栀猀Ⰰ 漀渀 猀琀漀渀礀 洀漀漀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀渀 洀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀 眀漀漀搀猀Ⰰ 椀渀ഊGreat Britain and Northern Europe; the berry is of a deep blue ਀戀氀愀挀欀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 漀昀 愀渀 椀渀挀栀 椀渀 搀椀愀洀攀琀攀爀⸀ 匀漀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 挀栀椀攀昀氀礀ഊin the Midlands; other names are WHORTLEBERRY and ਀䈀䰀䄀䔀䈀䔀刀刀夀⸀ 吀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 椀猀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀搀 愀氀猀漀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 甀猀攀搀ഊattrib. ਀ഊ 1577 DEE Relat. Spir. I. (1659) 171 The cloth, Hair-colourd, Bilbery ਀樀甀礀挀攀⸀ഊ1594 BARNFIELD Aff. Sheph. II. xii, Straw~berries or Bil-berries, in their ਀瀀爀椀洀攀⸀ ㄀㔀㤀㠀 匀䠀䄀䬀䔀匀⸀ 䴀攀爀爀礀 圀⸀ 嘀⸀ 瘀⸀ 㐀㤀 吀栀攀爀攀 瀀椀渀挀栀 琀栀攀 䴀愀椀搀猀 愀猀 戀氀攀眀 愀猀ഊBill~berry. " ਀ഊSo if you want to use blue berries, I guess you would get some Vaccinium ਀䴀礀爀琀椀氀氀甀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 猀攀攀欀 漀甀琀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀ഊthere Vaccinium Oxycoccos. ਀ഊJadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䠀爀漀氀昀 䐀漀甀最氀愀猀猀漀渀∀ 㰀䠀爀漀氀昀 愀琀 戀琀椀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 㘀 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㄀ 　㠀㨀㄀㜀㨀　㈀ ⬀　㄀　　ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] berries ਀ഊVikings ate ਀戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊlinganberries ਀爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀礀ഊrowan berries ਀戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊMulberries are period for SCA and they cook beautifully. ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀爀挀栀攀漀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 匀愀砀漀渀猀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 攀愀琀 刀漀眀愀渀⸀ഊIt was a cultural thing. If they are period for me in the 10th C they should ਀戀攀 愀氀爀椀最栀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀挀愀⸀ഊ ਀瘀愀爀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:53:08 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 樀漀栀渀渀愀 栀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀 愀琀 猀椀琀欀愀⸀攀渀最椀渀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䈀䄀刀䈀䔀刀刀䤀䔀匀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀搀 猀漀洀攀 琀椀洀攀 漀渀 洀礀 栀愀渀搀猀 琀栀椀猀 洀漀爀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 爀愀渀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀ഊmy library here at home. Here is what I found: ਀ഊBarberries (berberis vulgaris) grew in hedgerows and "bushy places". ਀䰀椀瘀椀渀最猀琀漀渀 椀渀搀椀挀愀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 最爀攀眀 眀椀氀搀 椀渀  䔀甀爀漀瀀攀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰഊwith a related species found in North America. They ripened in autumn. ਀䄀氀愀渀 䐀愀瘀椀搀猀漀渀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀洀 愀猀 愀 ∀瀀漀漀爀洀愀渀✀猀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀⸀∀ഊThey were valued for use in the Middle Ages because they are a fairly ਀愀挀椀搀 爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀礀 琀栀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 樀攀氀氀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 甀猀攀 漀昀 瀀攀挀琀椀渀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀ഊcandied, pickled, conserved, eaten out of hand, and used in garnishes. ਀䜀攀漀昀昀爀攀礀 䜀爀椀最猀漀渀 渀漀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 愀 礀攀氀氀漀眀 戀愀爀欀攀搀 猀栀爀甀戀ഊand as such were valued for treatment of "yellow diseases", i.e. ਀樀愀甀渀搀椀挀攀⸀ഊ ਀䤀渀 琀栀攀 䌀愀甀挀愀猀甀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 樀愀洀猀Ⰰ 樀攀氀氀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀漀爀 甀猀攀ഊas seasonings. Facciola indicates that in Iranian cuisine, the dried ਀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 稀攀爀攀猀栀欀 愀渀搀 眀攀爀攀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀 愀 猀漀甀爀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀椀渀最⸀  䄀 猀攀愀爀挀栀ഊon Google reveals that "ZERESHK" berries are currently available ਀漀渀 琀栀攀 椀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 昀爀漀洀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 最爀漀挀攀爀猀⸀ഊIndian cuisine dried some species and used them as "sour currants" in ਀搀攀猀猀攀爀琀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 戀氀甀攀Ⰰ  渀漀琀 爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰഊis called commonly the Oregon Grape, Hollygrape, Rocky Mountain grape, ਀栀漀氀氀礀氀攀愀瘀攀搀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 䌀愀氀椀昀漀爀渀椀愀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀爀愀椀氀椀渀最 洀愀栀漀渀椀愀⸀ഊIt is found in the Northwest and Southwest US and Mexico. Bear Creek ਀一甀爀猀攀爀礀 椀渀 一漀爀琀栀瀀漀爀琀Ⰰ 圀䄀 漀昀昀攀爀攀搀 戀漀琀栀 愀 䨀愀瀀愀渀攀猀攀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀ഊOregon Grape for sale in their 1999/2000 catalogue. ਀ഊThey are not common in the wild today in England because they ਀眀攀爀攀 猀礀猀琀攀洀愀琀椀挀愀氀氀礀 攀爀愀搀椀挀愀琀攀搀 愀猀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 愀 栀漀猀琀 琀漀 愀 戀氀愀挀欀ഊrust fungus that attacks cereal crops. That's why Hilary Spurling ਀挀栀漀猀攀 琀漀 甀猀攀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 栀攀爀ഊedition of Fettiplace. ਀ഊJohnnae llyn Lewis ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㄀㐀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㌀ ㄀㤀㨀㄀㠀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Ariane H ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 匀攀愀猀漀渀愀氀 倀爀漀搀甀挀攀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊ> I found fresh Dates and fresh white currants. I thought both of these ਀㸀 琀栀椀渀最猀 眀攀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 漀渀搀攀爀椀渀最 椀昀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀搀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀椀攀猀 ഊ> that called for either or both. ਀㸀ഊ> Serena da Riva ਀ഊI've never heard of fresh dates being cooked before, in either modern or ਀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 挀漀渀琀攀砀琀猀⸀⸀⸀琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 攀砀挀攀氀氀攀渀琀 昀漀爀 攀愀琀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀ഊevery cooked date I've een was cooked from a dried state. Fresh dates ਀愀爀攀 猀眀攀攀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀 愀猀琀爀椀渀最攀渀琀 焀甀愀氀椀琀礀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀㼀ഊYour mouth feels a little dry after eating them, kind of the same thing ਀琀栀愀琀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀猀 眀椀琀栀 爀愀眀 焀甀椀渀挀攀 戀甀琀 洀甀挀栀 氀攀猀猀 瀀爀漀渀漀甀渀挀攀搀⸀  吀栀攀礀✀爀攀 甀洀洀礀Ⰰഊthough. ਀ഊIf you're willing to experiment, you could try doing something with the ਀昀爀攀猀栀 搀愀琀攀猀⸀⸀⸀洀愀礀戀攀 樀甀猀琀 猀椀洀洀攀爀 琀栀攀洀 眀椀琀栀 愀 戀椀琀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀甀最愀爀 愀渀搀ഊsee what happens? ਀ഊAs for currants...I've never seen white ones, but red ones are good raw, ਀愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀 昀愀渀琀愀猀琀椀挀 樀攀氀氀礀 漀爀 樀愀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 洀礀爀椀愀搀 漀昀 甀猀攀猀 眀栀攀渀 搀爀椀攀搀⸀ഊI don't know how white currants taste as opposed to red or black ਀⠀猀眀攀攀琀攀爀㼀 洀漀爀攀 猀漀甀爀㼀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 戀攀琀 礀漀甀 挀漀甀氀搀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 昀爀攀猀栀 漀爀ഊdried, in any recipe that calls for either of the more familiar ਀瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀渀 愀渀礀 挀愀猀攀Ⰰ 猀漀甀渀搀猀 氀椀欀攀 愀 最爀攀愀琀 昀椀渀搀℀  䴀椀最栀琀 戀攀 眀漀爀琀栀 戀甀礀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀猀ഊjust for eating on their own. I live across the street from a farmer's ਀洀愀爀欀攀琀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 氀漀瘀攀 ⴀ 戀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 焀甀椀琀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀礀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最ഊnearly so exotic. ਀ഊVittoria ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㄀㐀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㌀ ㄀㤀㨀㈀㠀㨀　㜀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Sharon Gordon" gordonse at one.net ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 匀攀愀猀漀渀愀氀 倀爀漀搀甀挀攀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊ>I found fresh Dates and fresh white currants. I thought both of these things ਀㸀眀攀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 愀渀搀 眀愀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀椀渀最 椀昀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀搀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀ഊ>called for either or both. ਀ഊ***Currants ਀䘀椀爀猀琀Ⰰ 䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 猀愀礀 䤀 愀洀 愀猀猀甀洀椀渀最 琀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀礀 ഊCousin and not the grape kind of currants that is often turned into tiny ਀爀愀椀猀椀渀猀⸀ഊ1) Eat fresh. ਀㈀⤀ 䴀愀欀攀 樀愀洀⸀ഊ3)There is supposed to be a recipe for white currants in ਀䜀漀漀搀 䠀甀猀眀椀瘀攀✀猀 吀爀攀愀猀甀爀攀 ⠀㄀㔀㠀㠀⤀ 愀渀搀 昀漀爀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ഊ4) A modern british recipe for a summer pudding ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀最爀漀甀瀀猀⸀礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀⼀爀漀甀瀀⼀爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀开琀漀开栀愀瘀攀⼀洀攀猀猀愀最攀⼀㌀㘀㈀　㼀猀漀甀爀挀攀㴀㄀匀ഊ5) Halloween Illusion food ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀猀栀愀瘀欀椀渀⸀挀漀洀⼀渀攀眀猀栀愀氀氀漀㄀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ6) And you could use recipes for black or red currants as long as you ਀琀漀漀欀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀漀爀 椀渀琀漀 愀挀挀漀甀渀琀ഊ7) Modern recipes for sauce, cake, chicken ਀栀琀琀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀琀栀攀挀漀漀欀椀攀琀椀渀⸀挀漀洀⼀瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀⼀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀⸀愀猀瀀ഊ8) If you use the SEARCH function at the top of ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊyou can turn up more references to currants in recipes ਀ഊ***Dates ਀㄀⤀ 䤀昀 礀漀甀 搀漀 琀栀攀 猀攀愀爀挀栀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀 昀漀爀 ∀昀爀攀猀栀 搀愀琀攀猀∀ 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 ഊcome up with lots of wonderful things as well. ਀㈀⤀ 夀漀甀 挀愀渀 搀爀礀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀 愀 昀攀眀 搀愀礀猀 琀漀  琀眀漀 眀攀攀欀猀 漀爀 猀漀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀ഊdried date recipes which will taste much better with the still creamy, ਀礀攀琀 猀眀攀攀琀攀爀Ⰰ 昀爀攀猀栀氀礀 搀爀椀攀搀 搀愀琀攀⸀ഊ3) Split them, remove seed, and suff with a cream cheese like cheese. ਀ഊSharon ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䴀愀爀 ㈀　　㐀 　㘀㨀㐀㌀㨀㐀　 ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: lilinah at earthlink.net ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 嬀䔀䬀崀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 猀甀最最攀猀琀椀漀渀猀㼀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ਀䌀挀㨀 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ攀愀猀琀 愀琀 椀渀搀爀愀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊ ਀䨀愀搀眀椀最愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀攀搀㨀ഊ>> Hey, what about that classic from Simple Faire - hroed groed mit frydd? ਀㸀㸀 ⠀䤀 ⨀琀栀椀渀欀⨀ 琀栀愀琀✀猀 栀漀眀 椀琀✀猀 猀瀀攀氀氀攀搀⤀ഊ>> It's Icelandic for "red berries with cream" - which tells you all you need ਀㸀㸀 琀漀 欀渀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀 椀琀⸀ഊ>> Take red berries - strawberries, raspberries, loganberries, lingonberries, ਀㸀㸀 攀琀挀⸀ ⴀ 愀渀搀 戀攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀 琀漀 愀 洀甀猀栀 眀椀琀栀 挀爀攀愀洀 ⴀ 栀攀愀瘀礀 挀爀攀愀洀Ⰰ 猀漀甀爀 挀爀攀愀洀Ⰰഊ>> whipping cream, brylcreem, etc. ਀㸀ഊ> Hm.. anyone know if this recipe is documented anywhere? ਀ഊRødgrød med Fløde - Red Berry Pudding with Cream ਀椀猀 䐀愀渀椀猀栀Ⰰ 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 椀 挀愀渀 琀攀氀氀⸀ ⠀䤀昀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀✀琀ഊsee the characters, each is the letter "o" with a ਀猀氀愀猀栀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 椀琀⤀ 䤀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 眀攀戀ഊ- i edited it little and added a ਀挀漀洀洀攀渀琀⼀焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ 椀琀✀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 挀氀攀愀爀氀礀ഊmodern (potato starch or corn starch). I found ਀洀愀渀礀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀 漀渀 䐀愀渀椀猀栀 眀攀戀 猀椀琀攀猀Ⰰഊwhich i couldn't read... ਀ഊRødgrød med Fløde - Red Berry Pudding with Cream ਀㘀 猀攀爀瘀椀渀最猀ഊ ਀㐀 挀甀瀀猀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ⴀⴀ 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀 戀甀琀 栀愀爀搀 琀漀ഊcome by, so one can substitute fresh or frozen ਀猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ[Anahita notes: maybe even lingonberries would ਀眀漀爀欀 ⴀ 愀爀攀渀✀琀 琀栀攀礀 氀椀欀攀 琀椀渀礀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀猀 漀昀ഊAmerican cranberries?] ਀㌀ 挀甀瀀猀 眀愀琀攀爀ഊ1 cup sugar ਀退 挀甀瀀 瀀漀琀愀琀漀 猀琀愀爀挀栀 ⠀漀爀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀 挀漀爀渀猀琀愀爀挀栀⤀ഊˆ cup cold water ਀匀洀愀氀氀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀 昀漀爀 猀瀀爀椀渀欀氀椀渀最ഊCream, as desired ਀ഊPut water and berries in a pot. Bring to a boil ਀愀渀搀 挀漀漀欀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀 猀攀攀搀猀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀ഊStrain through cheesecloth or a fine sieve. ਀漀甀爀 琀栀攀 爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀礀 樀甀椀挀攀 戀愀挀欀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀漀琀 愀渀搀 爀攀琀甀爀渀 琀漀 愀 戀漀椀氀⸀ഊAdd sugar, stirring until the sugar is dissolved. ਀䤀渀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 戀漀眀氀Ⰰ 洀椀砀 琀栀攀 瀀漀琀愀琀漀 猀琀愀爀挀栀 眀椀琀栀 挀漀氀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 椀猀 猀礀爀甀瀀礀⼀ഊAdd it to the berry juice, constantly stirring. ਀䄀猀 猀漀漀渀 愀猀 椀琀 琀栀椀欀攀渀猀Ⰰ 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 栀攀愀琀 愀渀搀ഊpour into individual glass dishes. ਀匀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 猀甀最愀爀 琀漀 瀀爀攀瘀攀渀琀 愀 猀欀椀渀 昀爀漀洀 昀漀爀洀椀渀最⸀ഊLet cool. ਀吀漀瀀 眀椀琀栀 眀栀椀瀀瀀攀搀 挀爀攀愀洀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:36:42 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Barberries ਀吀漀㨀∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㸀 䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀愀琀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㼀  䄀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 琀栀攀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 昀爀漀洀ഊ> the barberry bush that we see in everyone's front lawn? Or are they something ਀㸀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀㼀ഊ> ਀㸀 䜀爀愀挀攀ഊ ਀䈀攀爀戀攀爀椀猀 瘀甀氀最愀爀椀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀⸀  吀栀攀 氀漀眀攀爀 戀愀爀欀 眀愀猀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀  ഊmaking medicine. ਀ഊNow, watch out, th term barberry is used to encompass a wide range of ਀瀀氀愀渀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀 䈀攀爀戀攀爀椀猀 愀渀搀 䴀愀栀漀渀椀愀⸀  吀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀愀琀琀攀爀猀 洀漀爀攀 昀甀渀Ⰰ 洀漀搀攀爀渀ഊbarberry extract actually comes from the Mahonia, whose rhizomes have a ਀栀椀最栀攀爀 挀漀渀挀攀渀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀挀琀椀瘀攀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀 琀栀愀渀 瀀愀渀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀  ഊBerberis. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㐀 　㤀㨀㌀㘀㨀㐀　 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 吀栀椀猀琀氀攀 刀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀爀漀洀 䘀愀戀甀氀漀甀猀 䘀攀愀猀琀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊTerry Decker wrote: ਀㸀 圀栀愀琀 眀攀 挀愀氀氀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 攀渀挀漀洀瀀愀猀猀攀猀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀ഊ> blue fruits primarily in the genus Vaccinium (some of which, IIRC, are found ਀㸀 椀渀 琀栀攀 伀氀搀 圀漀爀氀搀⤀⸀  夀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 愀氀猀漀 挀栀攀挀欀 漀渀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 愀渀ഊ> extensive discussion of this on the list a couple of years ago and the ਀㸀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䈀攀愀爀ഊ ਀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 椀猀 琀栀攀 最攀渀甀猀 眀椀琀栀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 洀礀爀琀椀氀氀甀猀ഊbeing the European berry being called the bilberry ਀眀栀椀挀栀 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 䄀氀愀渀 䐀愀瘀椀搀猀漀渀 栀愀猀 搀愀爀欀椀猀栀 瀀甀爀瀀氀攀ഊblueish berries. In the UK they were also called ਀眀栀椀渀戀攀爀爀礀 愀渀搀 愀氀猀漀 戀氀愀攀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ഊ ਀一愀渀渀愀 琀愀氀欀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 挀漀渀渀攀挀琀椀漀渀 眀椀琀栀 䤀挀攀氀愀渀搀椀挀 昀漀漀搀猀ഊ in the columns/postings collected in the ਀䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀 昀椀氀攀 䘀漀漀搀 漀昀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䤀挀攀氀愀渀搀⸀ഊ ਀嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 唀匀 挀漀瘀攀爀 ㌀ 洀愀椀渀 琀礀瀀攀猀ഊHigh Bush -- v. corymbosium ਀爀愀戀戀椀琀ⴀ攀礀攀 ⴀⴀ 瘀⸀ 愀猀栀攀椀ഊLow bush -- v. angustifolium ਀䐀愀瘀椀搀猀漀渀 渀漀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 渀漀洀攀渀挀氀愀琀甀爀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀琀 眀愀猀 挀漀渀昀甀猀攀搀Ⰰഊso blueberries in the early colonial times might have ਀戀攀攀渀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 栀甀爀琀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 栀甀挀欀氀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊIf the early settlers called the native blueberries under ਀琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 ∀戀椀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀∀  椀琀✀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀 猀愀昀攀 戀攀琀 琀栀愀琀ഊthat they used the same recipes for both, substituting the ਀一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 嘀愀挀挀椀渀椀甀洀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 椀猀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 爀攀瘀漀氀瘀攀猀 愀爀漀甀渀搀ഊwhat it is that we can find locally. European bilberries don't seem to ਀戀攀ഊ marketed locally here,except as caplets for improving ਀攀礀攀 栀攀愀氀琀栀⸀ഊhttp://www.wholefoods.com/healthinfo/wholehealth/bilberry.html ਀ഊMichigan blueberry sites howver include ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀挀漀洀⼀ഊhttp://www.msue.msu.edu/fruit/bluberry.htm ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀洀椀挀栀椀最愀渀⸀最漀瘀⼀洀搀愀⼀　Ⰰ㄀㘀　㜀Ⰰ㜀ⴀ㄀㈀㔀ⴀ㄀㔀㜀　开㈀㐀㘀㠀开㈀㐀㜀㄀ⴀ㄀㈀㠀㘀㌀ⴀⴀⰀ　　⸀栀琀洀氀ഊhttp://www.mda.state.mi.us/kids/countyfair/crops/blueberries/06.html ਀ഊBet you can't tell that Michigan grows a lot of blueberries, ਀栀漀猀琀猀 ㌀ 渀愀琀椀漀渀愀氀 昀攀猀琀椀瘀愀氀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 愀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 猀挀栀漀漀氀ഊreport topic. ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㤀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀㐀㨀㄀㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 伀氀搀 圀漀爀氀搀 瘀猀⸀ 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 䘀爀甀椀琀猀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊ> The lingonberries of Scandinavia have some similarities to cranberries ਀㸀 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 匀椀洀漀渀 匀椀渀渀攀最栀攀ഊ> Briaroak, Summits, An Tir ਀ഊLingonberries are Vaccinium vitis-idaea and are found across the Northern ਀䠀攀洀椀猀瀀栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 戀漀琀栀 一攀眀 愀渀搀 伀氀搀 圀漀爀氀搀⸀  䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 嘀⸀ 洀愀挀爀漀挀愀爀瀀甀洀 愀渀搀 愀爀攀ഊNew World. To confuse the issue, lingonberries are sometimes called ਀洀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀瀀瀀氀椀攀搀 琀漀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊmembers of genus Vaccinium, primarily V. oxycoccus. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㌀ 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀㜀㨀㐀㠀㨀㔀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀 瀀氀愀渀琀 栀攀氀瀀㼀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊThe primary currants used in period are Ribes rubrum and Ribes nigrum. The ਀䌀栀攀爀爀礀 刀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 椀猀 愀 搀椀猀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀椀猀琀愀渀琀 瘀愀爀椀愀渀琀 漀昀 刀⸀ 爀甀戀爀甀洀 搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀 椀渀ഊWashington state. Since it is a large fruited cultivar, it may be descended ਀昀爀漀洀 猀漀洀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 栀礀戀爀椀搀猀 搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 ㄀㘀　　⸀ഊ ਀匀椀渀挀攀 刀椀戀攀猀 挀愀渀 栀漀猀琀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 瀀氀愀渀琀 搀椀猀攀愀猀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 甀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀ഊCherry Red or a similar disease resistant cultivar rather than trying for a ਀洀漀爀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 瀀氀愀渀琀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 愀氀猀漀 爀攀挀漀洀洀攀渀搀 挀栀攀挀欀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀琀攀 愀最ഊdepartment (unless you are in Washington, Oregon or some other state where ਀琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 最爀漀眀渀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀椀愀氀氀礀⤀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 猀漀洀攀 猀琀愀琀攀猀 瀀爀漀栀椀戀椀琀 琀栀攀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀琀椀漀渀 愀渀搀ഊplanting of Ribes. ਀ഊBear ਀ഊ> I'd like to plant some currants this fall and I was wondering which ਀㸀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀爀 椀猀 挀氀漀猀攀猀琀 琀漀 眀栀愀琀 眀愀猀 最爀漀眀渀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀攀搀椀戀氀攀氀愀渀搀猀挀愀瀀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀⼀倀氀愀渀琀猀⼀䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀⸀栀琀洀ഊ> ਀㸀 䤀 眀愀猀 最漀椀渀最 琀漀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 䌀栀攀爀爀礀 刀攀搀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀 戀甀琀 眀愀渀琀攀搀 琀漀 搀漀甀戀氀攀 挀栀攀挀欀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䜀爀愀挀攀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:34:09 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䬀椀渀最猀琀愀猀琀攀∀ 㰀欀椀渀最猀琀愀猀琀攀 愀琀 挀漀洀挀愀猀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Cranberries and Lingonberries ਀吀漀㨀 ∀✀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀✀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䤀 樀甀猀琀 昀椀渀椀猀栀攀搀 甀瀀 洀礀 氀愀琀攀猀琀 䰀椀瘀椀渀最 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 挀氀愀猀猀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 眀攀 眀攀爀攀 眀椀琀栀ഊthe Vikings again, and the last day of class was our Viking Feast. I found ਀猀漀洀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 挀椀搀攀爀 愀渀搀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀琀 䤀䬀䔀䄀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀搀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀ഊthe feast. I made a baked pancake with the preserves, then served some ਀昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 洀愀搀攀 愀渀搀 愀 搀漀氀氀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀瀀⸀  吀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀ഊlovely, but almost indistinguishable from cranberries. They were smaller, ਀戀甀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 琀愀爀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 ✀瀀漀瀀✀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀漀甀琀栀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀ഊcrunched on them with your teeth ('crunch' is the wrong word, they weren't ਀挀爀甀渀挀栀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 猀琀椀氀氀 栀愀搀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀猀椀猀琀愀渀挀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀洀 攀瘀攀渀 椀渀 愀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀搀ഊabout the same amount of astringency. There was an ever-so-subtle taste ਀搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 洀愀礀戀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 氀攀猀猀 ✀挀椀琀爀甀猀礀✀ 琀漀渀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀愀渀 琀漀ഊwhat I usually associate with cranberries. ਀ഊSo, you might search for lingonberry recipes and try your fresh cranberries ਀椀渀 琀栀漀猀攀⸀  吀栀攀 戀愀欀攀搀 瀀愀渀挀愀欀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀 戀椀最 栀椀琀Ⰰ 戀礀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀⸀ 㬀⤀ഊChristianna ਀ഊ--On Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:28 PM -0500 chawkswrth at aol.com wrote: ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀栀漀眀 氀愀渀搀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 昀爀攀猀栀 䌀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ 䤀琀 眀愀猀 漀渀攀 漀昀ഊthose "That looks interesting" SNATCH buys. I have no idea what I was ਀琀栀椀渀欀椀渀最⸀ ഊI have no earthly idea what to do with them! ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀愀爀挀栀攀搀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀Ⰰ 漀渀氀礀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 瘀愀爀椀愀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀ഊcranberry sauce. Surely there is more to?this good-for-you fruit?then ਀琀栀愀琀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:24:31 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䈀愀爀戀愀爀愀 䈀攀渀猀漀渀∀ 㰀瘀漀砀攀椀最栀琀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cranberries and Lingonberries ਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 猀漀洀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 挀椀搀攀爀 愀渀搀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀琀 䤀䬀䔀䄀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀搀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀ഊthe feast. I made a baked pancake with the preserves, then served some ਀昀爀攀猀栀 挀栀攀攀猀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 洀愀搀攀 愀渀搀 愀 搀漀氀氀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀瀀⸀  吀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀ഊlovely, but almost indistinguishable from cranberries. >>> ਀ഊWow, ਀ഊIt is amazing how things taste differently to different people. I find ਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀礀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀渀搀 樀甀椀挀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 最攀琀 愀琀 䤀䬀䔀䄀 琀愀猀琀攀猀ഊdrastically different from the various preparations of cranberries ਀琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 栀愀搀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀洀 瘀攀爀礀 猀攀渀猀椀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 ∀戀椀琀琀攀爀∀ 愀猀 愀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀 愀渀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 䤀 氀椀欀攀ഊcranberries in small amounts I find their tartness to carry a ਀猀椀最渀椀昀椀挀愀渀琀 戀椀琀琀攀爀渀攀猀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 琀愀爀琀 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀 搀漀ഊnot have any of the bitterness that I find in cranberries. ਀ഊI usually keep a jar of the preserves in the fridge and I have them on ਀戀椀猀挀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 琀漀愀猀琀 愀渀搀 愀猀 琀栀攀 䨀攀氀氀礀 椀渀 洀礀 倀䈀☀䨀⸀ 吀栀攀椀爀 琀愀猀琀攀 椀猀 洀甀挀栀ഊfurther forward in the mouth, I do not taste them in the jaw area like ਀䤀 搀漀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀圀攀爀攀 䤀 琀漀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀 氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀愀礀 琀栀愀琀ഊyou need to add lemon, but the other way around? I don't know how to ਀爀攀洀漀瘀攀 戀椀琀琀攀爀渀攀猀猀⸀ഊ-- ਀匀攀爀攀渀愀 搀愀 刀椀瘀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:38:52 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䬀椀渀最猀琀愀猀琀攀∀ 㰀欀椀渀最猀琀愀猀琀攀 愀琀 挀漀洀挀愀猀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cranberries and Lingonberries ਀吀漀㨀 ∀✀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀✀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀䠀洀洀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 猀愀椀搀 洀漀爀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀椀琀琀攀爀渀攀猀猀 猀椀搀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀ഊlingonberries that I had, not less than cranberries. We may well be dealing ਀眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀眀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 礀攀愀爀✀猀 挀爀漀瀀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀攀 洀愀礀 樀甀猀琀 栀愀瘀攀ഊthat much difference in taste buds. We need a taste test!!! ਀䰀伀䰀ഊI can see it now, you, me, and a dozen different preparations of ਀氀椀渀最漀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⴀ漀漀漀漀漀栀栀栀栀栀⸀⸀ഊPost-Thanksgiving Palate Cleansers?? ਀㨀⤀ഊChristianna ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀　 䨀甀渀 ㈀　　㤀 ㈀㌀㨀㌀㠀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 吀甀搀漀爀 刀攀挀椀瀀攀 栀攀氀瀀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA ਀ഊKiri suggested Goya's orange marinade but an even better ਀挀栀漀椀挀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 䜀漀礀愀✀猀 戀漀琀琀氀攀搀 䈀椀琀琀攀爀 伀爀愀渀最攀⸀ഊhttp://goya.elsstore.com/view/product/?id=11193 ਀圀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 伀爀愀渀最攀 䨀甀椀挀攀 䌀漀渀挀攀渀琀爀愀琀攀Ⰰ 䌀椀琀爀椀挀 䄀挀椀搀Ⰰ 伀爀愀渀最攀 䔀猀猀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 匀攀瘀椀氀氀攀 ഊOrange Oil, Grapefruit Extract, Preservatives: 1/20th of 1% Potassium ਀匀漀爀戀愀琀攀Ⰰ ㄀⼀㈀　琀栀 漀昀 ㄀─ 匀漀搀椀甀洀 䈀攀渀稀漀愀琀攀 ☀ ㄀⼀㈀　 漀昀 ㄀─ 倀漀琀愀猀猀椀甀洀 ഊMetabisulfite, E.D.T.A. ਀ഊHow much are you making? ਀䈀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 挀愀渀 戀攀 瀀甀爀挀栀愀猀攀搀 漀渀氀椀渀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀礀 挀漀猀琀 ␀␀␀⸀ഊhttp://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-fruit/ingredient-spotlight-barberries-074959 ਀琀愀氀欀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 栀漀眀 琀愀爀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 猀甀最最攀猀琀 ∀礀漀甀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀戀氀攀 ഊto find them fairly easily at persian groceries. ask for "zereshk"." ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊElaine Koogler wrote: ਀㰀㰀㰀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀✀猀 䜀漀礀愀 琀栀愀琀 洀愀欀攀猀 愀渀 漀爀愀渀最攀ഊmarinade with Seville Oranges. I used it once in a recipe calling for ਀漀爀愀渀最攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 猀攀攀洀攀搀 琀漀 眀漀爀欀 眀攀氀氀⸀  䈀攀 愀眀愀爀攀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 搀漀攀猀 栀愀瘀攀ഊother ingredients. You might do a test cook with it and see if it works! ਀䬀椀爀椀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀伀渀 圀攀搀Ⰰ 䨀甀渀 ㄀　Ⰰ ㈀　　㤀 愀琀 㜀㨀㈀㐀 倀䴀Ⰰ 倀愀琀爀椀挀椀愀 䌀漀氀氀甀洀 㰀瀀樀挀㈀ 愀琀 挀漀砀⸀渀攀琀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ<<< ਀䤀渀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 愀爀攀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀Ⰰ 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀ഊbeen trying to find what we can use for barberries. snipped ਀䌀攀挀椀氀礀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀㰀琀栀攀 攀渀搀㸀ഊEdited by Mark S. Harris berries-msg 35 of 35 ਀ഊ ਀ഊ