apples-msg - 6/10/07 Period apples and apple recipes. NOTE: See also these files: fruits-msg, fruit-citrus-msg, fruit-melons-msg, fruit-pears-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, Hst-U-o-Aples-art, desserts-msg, crabapples-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: storm at hlafdig.stonemarche.ORG (Arastorm the Golden) Date: 23 Oct 91 16:01:04 GMT We planted a "period apple tree" several years ago in a flush of agrarian authenticity. It is producing now. In my opinion the Gilliflour (which can be traced back to 1600, and was brought to this country by T. Jefferson) is no where near as good as... We live in apple country. A local farm grows 52 variety of apples and I have tasted more than half of them. My favorite apples (depending on use) include Cortlands, Northern Spys, McCoons, Granny Smiths and Red Delicious. It does not include Gillyflours. The flavor is mild, too sweet, and the pulp is mushy. Sometimes paintings show period fruits. Oranges used to be half white membrane. According to National Geographic, beets were solely a leaf crop until the last century. Carrots were also small enough so that we should really not serve anything but "baby carrots" at events. Remember, the reason that venison was prized was because the herds were protected, and beef cattle were worked. Food ain't what it once was, and for this we should be intensley grateful for the hard work and dilligence of our ancestors. By the Way- has anyone got a source for the appropriate pine bark to grind up and put in one's pease bread? Arastorm From: David.Calafrancesco at drakkar.mhv.net (David Calafrancesco) Date: 22 Apr 97 23:30:58 -0500 Title: Appulmoy Categories: 14th cent., Fruit Yield: 50 servings 30 c Apples 1 1/2 c Flour, rice 24 c Water 1 1/2 c Honey 4 c Almond milk 3 ts Salt 18 ea Saffron, threads - --------------------------------POWDER FORT-------------------------------- 3/4 ts Pepper 3 ts Cinnamon 3 ts Ginger 3 ts Cloves "Curye on Inglysch," edited by Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon Butler. Oxford University Press, 1985. pg.116 #81, from "Forme of Cury." Appulmoy. Take apples and seep hem in water; drawe hem thurgh a straynour. Take almaunde mylke and hony and flour of rys, safroun and powdour fort and salt, seep it stondyng. Redaction by Oksana Goncharova: Appulmoy. Take apples and boil them in water; draw them through a strainer. Take almond milk and honey and flour of rice, saffron and powder fort and salt, and boil it standing. Redaction instructions: Peel and chop apples. Cook the apples in water until tender. Drain the excess water. Add almond milk ( to make almond milk ; take blanched almonds and chop them up in a mini chopper or food processor. Take the chopped almonds and put them in a blender, using liquify, and mix water in a little at a time. I use a ratio of about 1/8 th cup of almond to about 1 cup of water.) Add crushed saffron (take some of the almond milk and crush the threads of saffron in a morter and pestle, with the milk.) Add rice flour, honey, salt and powder fort. Simmer over low heat, stirring frequently, until mixture has thickened. This recipe can be made more spicy by adding more of the powder fort, if you like, my husband enjoys that, I have weaker tongue tolerance. This recipe takes about 15 min. to make a 3 cup batch (8) servings. - ----- Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East haraldr at drakkar.mhv.net Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - apples << Anyone have any period apple treats that I can make up for the fighters >to take to "Not Necessarily Pointless War" this weekend? >> How about Apple Moyle? It is basically a type of rice pudding with apples in it. The recipe is in "Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books". Ras Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:37:16 -0400 From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - apples LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > << or, depending on ingredient proportion and emphasis, applesauce > thickened with rice flour, and sometimes eggs. >> > > This is in fact the version I use. Basically it's a baked custard with > lots of apple sauce > > Ras Take a large can of pears in syrup, drain and reserve the heavy syrup. Give the pears a whirl in a blender, adding just enough juice to make it pearsauce. Use in place of the pumpkin in a pie recipe. Pour a puddle of whole cream on the surface when it is about half done. margali Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:07:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Honey Apples Steve Geppert <emster at alaska.net> writes: > Looking for something to do with a bag of "older" apples I had on the ... > I couldn't seem to find anything similar. Is this something that could > be period? It would be a great traveling dish as it can be served Well, The Domestroi has a listing for "Kirzamin apples" (not sure of the first word) which was simply apples (whole) put in a container with honey on them until the apples became soft (i think... i'm going from memory here) There were almost certainly some acetic fermentaion that went on inside the apples before th osmatic pressure of the honey made a preserved fruit.... so we have apples, honey, and most likely vineger... but no cooking... There were several other recipies for cooking fruit with the addition of honey... i'll try to remember and look to see if vinegar was used in any of them.. In Service to the People of the Society, Filip of the Marche Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:49:46 EST From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) Subject: Re: SC - Honey Apples On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:00:44 -0800 Steve Geppert <emster at alaska.net> writes: >Looking for something to do with a bag of "older" apples I had on the >counter, I stumbled on a Honey Apple recipe in my Joy of Cooking. The >recipe is simply honey, vinegar brought to a boil. The apples are pared >and thinly sliced and dropped into the mixture and removed when >transparent. As my medieval cooking library is in its birthing stages, >I couldn't seem to find anything similar. Is this something that could >be period? It would be a great traveling dish as it can be served >chilled or hot. It was also a hit with my children, none left on the >table after dinner! > >Lady Clare >(settling in for the long Alaskan winter, snow on the ground already!) I know I'm answering an old message, but I was clearing out my inbox and this reminded me of a couple of recipes I came across in _The Domostroi_. Kuzmin apples. Take whole apples, not bruised, nor wormeated. Place them on racks, one layer per rack. Pile the racks on top of one another, then pour three measures of honey syrup over all. Ripe Apples and quinces. Put ripe apples and quinces which are clean and unbruised in crates inside small buckets, five quinces per apple. arrange them with your hands. Pour four measures of honey syrup over them. When you cover the bucket, leave space for a funnel so that air can escape as the mixture ferments. I have no idea if this is anywhere close to what Lady Clare was looking for, but there it is. Lady Beatrix of Tanet Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:15:16 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Grape juice inquiry >Now, would somebody give me a comercial source for apples that are a period >type, grown without pesticides or commercial fertilizer. There is a firm called AppleSource--I don't know if they are on the web yet. They sell a wide variety of apples, including, I am fairly sure, some of the period ones, by mail. Alternatively you can get trees from quite a lot of nurseries--you will find an article on that subject in the _Miscellany_. My problem is that I keep moving, and leaving my trees behind. Hopefully, since things grow fast here, I will at least get to enjoy the greengage plum I planted when we moved. David/Cariadoc Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:04:12 EST From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com> Subject: SC - Apples liontamr at ptd.net writes: << Small, round, red and hard (not to mention hardy). Less sweet (see large amounts of sugar added to them for preservation). As for substitutes, I'd go for the bags of cooking macs, ida reds or some such, which are smaller, have better flavor than the enormous ones, and more closely mimic a period sized apple. >> Pippins are the fruit grown from an apple tree grown from an apple seed as opposed to those grown from sports or other grafted stock. They are, indeed, smaller and less sweet than most currently available commercial so-called apples. I would suggest adding to your list of varieties that might be tried Northern Spyes or, if possible, crab apples specifically grown for juice if you want to come closest to a period-like flavor. Almost all commercial varieties of apple have been bred to make the taste less complex, less acidic, sweeter and unobjectionable to the majority of people, thereby producing insipid, flavorless ghosts of good tasting apples. And there are varieties of apples still grown now that were grown during the middle ages. These would of course be the best to use and though not generally found for sale commercially are readily available as saplings from some specialty plant growers. If buying commercially, most reputable supermarkets will allow you to taste test your apple before buying it. Look for a balance between acid and sweet, tangy, pineapple, strawberry, clove taste with a complex variety of flavors underneath, crispness, refreshing and lingering finish. If you have a piece of land and web access, a search engine of apple should get you started in your search for period apple trees. :-) Ras Date: 16 Jan 1998 08:35:01 -0800 From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Fruits <snip>- I read or was told by someone (wish I could remember) that Pippins referred to a specific type of apple which is no longer available. Anyone know if this is true? If so, what is the best <snip> I am not sure about the rest, but Pippins are still sometimes available in the grocery store, tho they seem to be being pushed out by Fujis and Braeburns that are bigger. - -brid Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:15:04 -0500 From: Margritte <margritt at mindspring.com> Subject: SC - A Paste of Pippins Consider the following two recipes: To make Paste of Pippins, the Geneva fashion, some with leaves, some like Plums, with stalks and stones in them. Take your Pippins, and pare them and cut them in quarters: then boil them in faire water till they be tender; then straine them and dry the pulp upon a chafindish of coales: then weigh it, and take as much sugar as it weigheth, and boile it to Manus Christi, and put them together: then fashion them upon a Pieplate and put it into an Oven being very sleightly heat: the next Morning you may turne it, and put them off the plates upon sheets of Paper upon a hurdle, and so put them in an Oven of like heat, and there let them remain foure or five dayes, puting every day a Chafindish of coales into the Oven: and when they be thorow dry you may box them, and keepe them all the yeare. A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen or The Art of preserving, conserving and candying, printed for Arthur Johnson, 1608. To make Paste of Pippins like leaves, and some like Plums, with their stones, and Stalks in them. Take Pippins pared and cored, and cut in pieces, and boiled tender, so strain them, and take as much Sugar as the Pulp doth weigh, and boil it to a Candy height with as much Rose-water and fair water as will melt it, then put the pulp into the hot sugar, and let it boil until it be as thick as Marmalet, then fashion it on a Pyeplate, like Oaken leaves, and some like half Plums, the next day close the half Plums together; and if you please you may put the stones and stalks in them, and dry them in an Oven, and if you will have them look green, make the paste with Pippins are green, and if you would have them look red, put a little Conserves of Barberries in the Paste, and if you will keep any of it all the year, you must make it as thin as Tart stuff, and put it into Gallipots. A Queen's Delight or The Art of Preserving, Conserving and Candying, printed for Nathaniel Brook, 1654. Both of these books are available on microfilm, in the "English Books: 1641-1700" series. OK, here come the questions :-) - - Do I use cheesecloth to strain the apples? - - Should they fall apart (applesauce consistency)? - - The first recipe calls for drying the pulp before weighing it. How dry should it be? Surely not completely... - - I could understand if it was oak leaves and acorns, but _plums_!?? Why plums? - - When the half plums are put together, are you using real stalks and stones from plums, or ones made of marzipan, or what? - - Just how thin is tart stuff? - - What were gallipots usually made of? - - Has anyone seen recipes elsewhere for similar confections (especially ones mentioning oak leaves)? Thanks for any help you can give. - -Margritte Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:48:51 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Fruits At 8:35 AM -0800 1/16/98, Marisa Herzog wrote: >I am not sure about the rest, but Pippins are still sometimes available in the >grocery store, tho they seem to be being pushed out by Fujis and Braeburns >that are bigger. >-brid There are several varieties known as "pippen": Cox's Orange Pippen is a famous variety from (I think) the 18th century. Newtown Pippen is a variety they sell around here, sometimes under its full name and sometimes just as Pippen. It is a hard medium-sized green apple, a little tart, good both for pies and for eating out of hand. How close it is to a period pippen I don't know. Southmeadow Fruit Gardens, 2363 Tilbury Place, Birmingham, Michigan 48009, as of several years ago, had an enormous collection of old fruit varieties, with a catalogue which cost $5 or $10 and was very much worth it as information about old varieties. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:02:24 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - A Paste of Pippins Margritte quoted a couple of recipes for Paste of Pippens: >To make Paste of Pippins like leaves, and some like Plums, with their >stones, and Stalks in them. >Take Pippins pared and cored, and cut in pieces, and boiled tender, so >strain them, and take as much Sugar as the Pulp doth weigh, and boil it to >a Candy height with as much Rose-water and fair water as will melt it, then >put the pulp into the hot sugar, and let it boil until it be as thick as >Marmalet, ... I am fairly sure that marmelade (which, I believe, comes from a Portugese word meaning quince) meant at this time not the citrus jam we now use the word for but instead meant quince paste. My sister Johanna used to make quince paste out of a modern recipe in a book by (I think) Elizabeth David; it came out as a stiff brown paste of a similar consistancy to fudge or to medieval gingerbread, if you have made that. I think there is a recipe for marmelade or quince paste in Hugh Platt's _Delights for Ladies_ (160?) that would give you another recipe to compare, quinces being closely related to apples; I can hunt up the recipe and type it in if you would like. Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:53:22 -0600 (CST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) Subject: SC - Re: A Paste of Pippins Greetings. One line of Elizabeth's post drew my attention: >I am fairly sure that marmelade (which, I believe, comes from a >Portugese word meaning quince) meant at this time not the citrus jam >we now use the word for but instead meant quince paste. I went hunting through a few cookery books and found that, indeed, most of the pre-1600 ones, when titled "marmelat" or some spelling variant, used only quinces. What was bothering me was that only yesterday I had run across a number of marmelades made with fruit _other_ than quinces, though those were in the late 1600s. So, somewhere along the way, the main ingredient changed. I did find, however, in Thomas Dawson's 1597 _The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell_, "To make drie Marmelet of Peches". So, the transformation from quince-only to other fruit was apparantly already underway. From the recipe, however, this is a fruit-leathery-paste type of thing that can be "printed" with a mould, not the gloppy consistency of marmalade that we are used to. Alys Katharine Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:09:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Berry <nexus at panix.com> Subject: SC - Between two dishes ... A short while ago I did a small feast here in Whyt Whey and one of the recipes I used was "To Stew Apples" from Digbie. Though the recipe was pretty straightforward, the penultimate line was less so. "You stew these between two dishes." I am not quite certain what to make of this. On the one hand, might it be a bain-Marie or double boiler? On the other, could it be simply a covered pot? At any rate, the whole recipe is included below. TO STEW APPLES "Pare them and cut them into slices. Stew them with Wine and Water as the Pears, and season them in like manner with Spice. Towards the end sweeten them with Sugar, breaking them into Pap by stirring them. When you are ready to take them off, put in good store of fresh-butter and incorporate it well with them, by stirring them together. You stew these between two dishes. The quickest Apples are the best." Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne PS. For those who are interested, the entire menu as well as the article series related to it are on my cooking site at http://www.panix.com/~nexus/cooking - and yes, that is a more or less blatant plug:-) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:29:48 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Between two dishes ... > a short while ago I did a small feast here in Whyt Whey > and one of the recipes I used was "To Stew Apples" from > Digbie. Though the recipe was pretty straightforward, the > penultimate line was less so. > "You stew these between two dishes." > > I am not quite certain what to make of this. On the one hand, > might it be a bain-Marie or double boiler? On the other, could > it be simply a covered pot? That sounds like a reference to a chawfer or chafing dish, which is essentially a small brazier of charcoal, in which sits a roughly similarly-sized inner cooking plate, which can be used covered or uncovered. Cooking between two dishes would most likely be using this type of setup. Adamantius > Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:27:59 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Between two dishes ... I would interpret this to mean a covered dish, as a bain marie is not between two dishes, but on top of two dishes :). The results would be very different, as the former would conserve moisture and the later would not. good luck! - --Anne-Marie Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:51:05 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Apple Butter Update > Can anyone out there spare me the time to tell me anything about the > history of Apple Butter? > > Micaylah There is a recipe for Appulmoy in The Forme of Cury, which I have seen adapted as applesauce. It uses honey as sweetener rather than the sugar called for in modern recipes. Since the chief difference between modern applesauce and modern apple butter is the amount of sugar used, being heavy handed with the honey might get you apple butter. I haven't tried either recipe, so I can't tell you what will happen. Bear Date: Tue, 16 Jun 98 07:49:38 -0600 From: upsxdls at okway.okstate.edu Subject: Re[2]: SC - Apple Butter Question My recipe for any fruit butter - apple, pear, peach, apricot, etc. Apple (I use Red Delicious or Winesap, they mush easier) Butter, Peel and core apples. Place in a heavy pan with just enough water to cover the bottom of the pan. Cover and simmer until fruit softens. Mash with potato masher. Measure mashed fruit. Add an equal amount of sugar. Cook over low heat, stirring occasionally. If I want to add spices, I usually use whole cinnamon sticks and cloves wrapped in a cheesecloth bag. If you use ground spices, it will turn the mixture dark. Pear is done the same way, but ginger is the usual spice. Peaches & apricots do not have to be peeled, but should be run through a food mill to remove the skins before measuring. I don't add spices to the peach or apricot butters. They're too wonderful all by themselves! Leanna McLaren of Sparrowhaven Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:17:18 EDT From: Kallyr at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - cider apples Golden Russet is a period cider apple which is still grown and highly regarded. Another is Ashmead's Kernel (also russeted) which was introduced in the 1700's as a cider apple. (Russets are brownish gold rough spots on the skin of apples.) Various modern pippins are descendants of pippins highly regarded as cider apples, such as the Ribston Pippin (also know as Essex Pippin, Glory of York) considered to have originated in Yorkshire, England around 1700. Information from Fruit, Nut and Berry Inventory, Second Edition by Kent Whealy (Decorah, Iowa: Seed Saver Publications, 1993). ~~Minna Gantz/ Sherry <KALLYR at AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:47:15 -0700 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: RE: SC - cider apples At 2:27 PM +0100 6/29/98, Yeldham, Caroline S wrote: >There is a place that 'stores' all the old apple varieties it can, but I >don't have details; I would suggest contacting someone like Kew Gardens >(which has a seed library) or the Royal Horticultural Society. The >Henry Doubleday Research Society (?) might be able to help too. In the USA, Southmeadow Fruit Gardens (2363 Tilbury Place, Birmingham, Michigan 48009) sells a huge variety of old apples and other fruits, and has a very knowlegable and informative catalogue which cost $10 as of a few years ago. Clearly one of the people who runs the place is an enthusiast. Elizabeth/Betty Cook (gradually catching up on the list) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:48:37 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - sc-pears and rambling uther at lcc.net writes: << What kind of apples and pears should I use to get the kind of results the medieval cook would have gotten? Hopefully something I can find at a supermarket in East Texas? >> Apples are problematical since every individual seed produces a new variety of apple. The best thing to use , IMO, would be an apple that has FLAVOR. Most modern apples sold at the supermarket and specifically bred with Everyman in mind. This means that they are almost exclusively tasteless odorless and without distinctive character. :-( Avoid apples that have the word 'Delicious' in their varietal name. They are, without a single exception, NOT delicious and have all the characteristics that the apple industry says Everyman desires. They are also mealy and oftentimes bitter or coyingly sweet. There are apple varieties that are period, such as Pippins, but they are rarely available on the commercial level. For great taste and complexity of lavor I wold personally recommend Northern Spys or Granny Smiths. Northern Spys have a flavor that is reminiscent of tangy pineapple, strawberries and citrus. They are nicely balanced between sweet and sour and hold up there shape during the baking process. They are crisp and juicy when raw if they have not been stored for a lengthy period of time. Granny Smiths are the second variety I would choose if period varieties or Spys are unavailable. They also have some complexity in flavor although not nearly as much as Spys ro the period varieties. They also have a nice balance between sweet and sour, are not mealy and have a crisp texture when eaten raw and a refreshing finish when eaten raw or cooked. Pears, for the most part have been little disturbed by the hand of modern man. The best cooking varieties are hard and crisp. These qualities endear them to commercial shippers so a good portion of the pears available in the supermarket are varieties which were also grown in period. Look for pears that are hard when selecting cooking pears. The name may contain terms like 'winter' or 'fall' pears. Or ask your grocer which pear is ideal for cooking. Ras Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:18:58 +1000 (EST) From: The Cheshire Cat <sianan at geocities.com> Subject: SC - Apple Mousse Hannah Thomas wrote: > Does anyone have any good recipes for apples? There are a thousand on > our trees, and I can only make so much apple sauce! These appear to be > baking apples (they don't taste that good when you eat them plain). Try this: Apple Mousse: 'A Prpoer Newe Book of Cokerye' To make Apple Moyse: Take a dozen apples and ether roaste or boyle them and drawe them thorowe a streyner, and the yolkes of three or foure egges withal, and, as ye stryne them, temper them wyth three or foure sponefull of damaske water yf ye wyll, than take and season it wyth suger and halfe a dysche of swete butter, and boyle them upon a chaffyngdysche in a platter, and caste byskettes or synamon and gynger upon them and so serve them forth. My Redaction: 700g apples 45ml water 2 egg yolks 30ml rosewater 2 Tbs sugar 25g butter ground ginger and cinnamon to finish Peel, core and slice the apples, and stew them with the water until soft in a heavy, covered saucepan. Make the apples into a smooth puree by pressing it through a sieve or using a blender. Return the puree to the saucepan, stir in the egg yolk beaten with the rosewater, then the sugar and the butter and slowly heat to boiling point stirring continuously. Pour the puree into a dish and allow to cool. To finish, sprinkle with a little ground ginger and cinnamon. - -Sianan Marina Denton Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:37:04 PDT From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Period Scottish Dessert >From: "Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" <rygbee at montana.com> > > Yes I have recipes for Scotts shortbread(cookie like) a fruit puding, > > and apples baked with honey, currents and wiskey(possibly oop) > > Lady Katherine McGuire > >Recipes, please. > >Raoghnailt >Stan Wyrm, Artemisia >rygbee at montana.com This is the "modern " version, in modern english. If you want the original, I can get it but not this week. I expect my cook book back sometime next week. Apples baked in Scotch four to six good sized apples. 1 large hand-full currents (1 cup aprox.) 1/2 cup good honey (I use wild flower) Enough Scotch to cover the currents when placed in a small bowl. 1/2 cup of chopped nuts of your choice. Hazelnuts, toasted work well. Soak the currents in the Scotch for at least 12 hours. Drain the currents and set aside. Warm the honey and add the remaining Scotch from the currents. Gently simmer the honey and scotch until it thickens to a heavy syrup consistency. Cut small slice off the top of the apples, core. Mix 1/2 the nuts and the currents. Stuff the apples with this mixture Place in an iron baking dish (this is what the original calles for) just large enough to hold the apples touching each other. Pour the syrup over the apples, making sure that some goes over the stuffing and wetting it. Bake for one hour at 350 degrees. The first part of the hour cover the apples. After this, remove the cover and sprinkle the apples with the remaining nuts. This can be served on rounds of pound cake or sweet biscuits. Lady Katherine McGuire Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:28:17 -0700 From: Catherine Keegan <keegan at mcn.org> Subject: Re: SC - Period Kinds of apples/Pears > Just wondering what kind of apples we find in the grocery store >would be closest to a period apple. > And while I am asking, what about pears too? Funny you should ask... We are planting an orchard and are including a few varieties that date back to the SCA period! For Apples, all of the grocery-store varieties are modern. The variety "Court Pendu Plat" (or "Corps Pendu") is supposed to date from at least the 1590's and may actually be derived from the old Roman variety called Sementinum... according to one of the catalogs. I think at least one reference claimed that "White Winter Pearmain" was originally a 13th century variety. And Frank Browning mentions in his book "Apples," that the rootstock variety now know as "M9" is actually derived from the "Paradise" apple that was popular from the 13th century; it was supposed to be a small yellow apple. To approximate medieval culinary apples, you would need to find an orchard growing the old vintage varieties. Or, you could use crabapples - I recommend the Whitney Crab; small yellow fruit with red stripes, sweet and tangy fresh. About the closest thing in the grocery store, if they have a really good selection, would be a Pippin. For pears, it's a little easier: The variety known as Bartlett in America is called "Williams Bon Chretien" in England and "Bon Chretien" in France, and it supposedly is very ancient, possibly late medieval or Early Modern. (It was brought to England in about 1700 by a guy named WiIliams, but it had apparently been growing in France for a very long time.) "Apples, the story of the fruit of temptation" by Frank Browning, North Point Press, 1998. ISBN 0-86547-579-2. Has a great discussion of the origin and history of apples. Get the Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery catalog for descriptions of vintage varieties: www.applenursery.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:52:19 -0500 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Period Kinds of apples/Pears At 1:45 PM -0700 10/27/99, Schumacher, Deborah (AZ15) wrote: > Just wondering what kind of apples we find in the grocery store >would be closest to a period apple. > And while I am asking, what about pears too? You can find what I was able to discover on this subject many years ago webbed at: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/trees.html David Friedman Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:36:25 -0500 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Period Kinds of apples/Pears At 5:28 PM -0700 10/27/99, Catherine Keegan wrote: >For Apples, all of the grocery-store varieties are modern. Depends on the grocery store. It used to be the case that stores around Pennsic cometimes carried Summer Rambo (Rambeau d'ete), which is a period or perhaps early 17th c. variety. And lady apples, which are supposed to be period, occasionally show up in grocery stores. >The variety >"Court Pendu Plat" (or "Corps Pendu") is supposed to date from at least >the 1590's and may actually be derived from the old Roman variety called >Sementinum... according to one of the catalogs. I think at least one >reference claimed that "White Winter Pearmain" was originally a 13th >century variety. And Frank Browning mentions in his book "Apples," that >the rootstock variety now know as "M9" is actually derived from the >"Paradise" apple that was popular from the 13th century; it was supposed to >be a small yellow apple. My list from the Miscellany article: Calville Blanc D'Hiver (1627) Grosse Mignonne (1667) Court Pendu Plat (16th century-possibly Roman) Devonshire Quarendon (1690) Nectarine Drap d'Or (=Coe's Golden Drop?) Early Violet (1659) Lady Apple (1628) Old Nonpareil Pears Pomme Royale Buerre Gris (1608) Reinette Franche Rousselet de Reims (1688) Roxbury Russett (Early 17th century) Bartlett (Williams Bon Chretien) Scarlet Crofton "of ancient origin"-may or may Sops of Wine not be pre-1600. Summer Rambo (16th century) Winter Pearmain Plums Fenouilette Gris Green Gage (Reine Claude) Golden Reinette Prune d'Agen >To approximate medieval culinary apples, you would need to find an orchard >growing the old vintage varieties. Or grow your own--there are a number of nurseries that sell the old varieties. David Friedman Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:35:06 -0700 From: Catherine Keegan <keegan at mcn.org> Subject: Re: SC - Period Kinds of apples/Pears Most of Cariadoc's list appear to be 17th century. Winter Pearmain might be a medieval variety, or a descendant of one, according to some research I have read. Lady is dated to 1600 and therefore might squeak under the wire. Corps Pendu is in. I think I remember seeing a reference to Fenouillette Gris, or something similar, being medieval. But some of these are dated much later in the Sonoma Antique Apple catalog: Coe's Golden Drop - 1842 Sops of Wine - 1832 I do not, unfortunately, have much information about the French varieties... and am looking for references to same. Summer Rambo (Rambour Franc) is listed in the SAA catalog as dating to "17??", whatever THAT means. If you can actually get the Lady apple, that is perhaps your best bet. It is a small fruit, very pretty, not too sweet, somewhat acid, and reportedly keeps all winter. I have tasted it, but not cooked with it, but suspect it would do well. If you can wait about three years, you can order trees on dwarf rootstock and grow your own: www.applenursery.com bearcreeknursery.com (not up yet but you can email them for a catalog) Colin p.s. On a slightly different tack, Raintree nursery has Medlars, another period fruit that does not appear in groceries out here. (360) 496-6400 for catalog. Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:21:31 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Marmalade tori at panix.com writes: << Also lady apples, which, if I recall, is a reasonable facsimile of medieval apples, neh? >> Actually it is not a reasonable facsimile. Lady Apples are a medieval variety that has survived. Every apple seed grows into a new variety of apple, only by grafting stock from known varieties can a particular variety continue on. Technically, every Lady Apple is a piece of the original Lady Apple. :-) Ras Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:00:10 -0800 From: Catherine Keegan <keegan at mcn.org> Subject: Re: SC - Lady apples source The only Spitzenberg I can find information for is the variety "Esopus Spitzenberg." Thomas Jefferson's favorite. "USA; arose with the "low Dutch" at Esopus, Ulster Co, New York. Known before 1790." Morgan & Richards, "The Book of Apples," 1993. Their material is heavily slanted to English & American varieties, however, so if this was derived from an earlier Dutch or German variety it might not be covered in their descriptions. Morgan & Richards also has the following to say about the other varieties: Summer Rambo - "Rambo d'Ete" - synonym of Rambour Franc. "Believed this arose near the village of Rambure, near Abbeville, Picardy." [Remember "The Advocate?" ;-> ] " 'De Rambure' recorded 1535 by botanist Jean de la Ruelle; known in England 1665." Sops in Wine - "UK; many varieties of this name in literature. [fruit in Brogdale collection] does not match descriptions of variety recorded 1831..." Do you have an earlier attribution for this cultivar? Fameuse - "Canada (prob). Seed poss brought from France, planted c1730 at Chimney Point nr Lake Champlain between Vermont and New York State. Syns many." This doesn't sound like a period variety! Api - synonym Lady Apple - "France; found in ancient Forest of Api, Brittany, according to French botanist Merlet. Recorded 1628 by Le Lectier. Recorded England 1676 by Worlidge. Syns numerous. Lady Apple of North America. Not the reputedly Roman Appia of c16th, according to French and Italian authorities." The best-documented "period" apple would appear to be Court Pendu Plat: "described 1613 by Bauhin, but believed older. Known Court Pendu Rouge in France. History much confused with Court Pendu Gris. Syns numerous; include Wise Apple because flowers late and escapes spring frosts. Claimed Roman origin, but Lery considered Court Pendu Gris had ancient associations. 'Capendu,' syn Court Pendu Gris appeared in accounts of Normany abbeys in C15th and in 1420 was on sale Rouen market. By c16th grown all over France, also Italy, Switzerland. Some claimed it was Roman and Cestiana of Pliny. Estienne named it Court Pendu in 1540, because it was 'short hanged' ie short stalk. 'Capenda' known to Parkinson in 1629; Court Pendu Plat known England by c18th." There is also the original Old Pearmain, which may or may not be the variety mentioned in both England and France ca. 1200. You would probably have to get scion wood from the Brogdale Trust for this one. Also there is 'Blanc Dur,' which again may or may not be the same as the 'Blandurel' introduced to England by Queen Eleanor in 1280. I would love to get a couple of these... Colin Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:45:10 -0800 From: Catherine Keegan <keegan at mcn.org> Subject: Re: SC - OT: Did anyone save the posts about apple varieties? >Silly me accidentally deleted the posts from about a month ago >that discussed period or almost period varieties of apples. We >are looking to start an orchard this coming growing season, and I >didn't want to be stuck with the mealy "Red Delicious" or bland >"Golden Delicious" that the local nursery has for sale. Since the last round of discussion, I have done a little more reading on this subject. Turns out that the Paradise apple, frequently referenced in medieval gardens, can still be grown today. It is used as a dwarfing rootstock, called "M.9" or Malling 9. You can get it as a rootstock (cheap!) for grafting purposes from several mail-order nurseries. Try Cummins Nursery, http://www.dabney.com/cumminsnursery Jim Cummins can give you information about the Paradise apple and how to grow it. Note that there is also a modern variety called "Paradise" that is not the same as the medieval apple. You certainly don't have to be stuck with the wretched modern Delicious - even the Home Despot stores out here (CA) carry many other cultivars. I just got Whitney Crab and Gravenstein from there. You should consider planting a couple of crabs; they will be similar to the "wild" apple-crabs that were also used in the MA. Have fun! Colin Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 18:52:54 -0500 From: "STRAIGHT " <STRAIGHT at infoblvd.net> Subject: Re: SC - OT: Did anyone save the posts about apple varieties? I live in apple country. If you're getting mealy Red Delicious, they're overripe. Those that have been stored too long may also look really wonderfully dark red, and be rotten in the center. Bland Golden Delicious are also overripe. When reasonably fresh they have a good strong flavor. Growing location may also make a difference. Apples need so many days of properly cold temperature to set fruit properly, specific to each variety. A tree growing on the fringe of it's range will not have as good fruit. Apples can be grown a long ways south if they're an adapted variety, and only certain varieties will bear good fruit in the colder areas. I suggest doing some research first. The NYS Agricultural Experiment Station at Geneva, NY has considerable information, and so do many nursery catalogs. Miller Nurseries in Canandaigua, NY, specializes in antique varieties, and there is quite a bit of information just in their free catalog. There is also an old set of books entitled "The Apples of New York", rich in historical information and storage charactistics of apples, which was written when people kept their own in cellars. Diane S. Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:22:03 -0500 From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: SC - Apples for Cider CBlackwill at aol.com wrote: > Does > anyone have any information of which particular family of apples would be > most appropriate for a "period style" cider? Well, one of my cider books says "In England, the most esteemed cider apple in the seventeenth century was the Red Streak, which gave 'the richest and most vinous liquor.' Other favorites were the Bromesbury Crab, the Red & White Must apples, the Harvey, the Pearmain, the Foxwhelp, and the Gennet-Moyle." _Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider_ by Annie Proulx & Lew Nichols; 2nd ed. p 92. (the first edition is slightly better than the 2nd) If you can get your hands on them, Kingston Black is a good one-apple cider apple, but otherwise I suggest you use a blend of apple types. Definitely throw in a few crab apples for tannins if what you have available is mostly dessert apples. Red Delicious makes a good blending base, with lots of aromatics, but requires plenty of more flavorful varieties to give the cider character. I'm told that Golden Russet is an excellent cider apple, both sweet and tart with a nice aroma. The Roxbury Russet was developed in Massachusetts in 1649, and is listed as a superior cider apple. Winesaps are good blended with dessert apples such as the delicious. I have lots more info on apple varieties if you are interested, but sadly not much on which ones were developed when. - -Magdalena Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT From: allilyn at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about medieval food! :) Chiquart's almond applesauce--vegan 73. Again, emplumeus of apples: to give understanding to him who will make it, take good barberine apples according to the quantity of it which one wants to make and then pare them well and properly and cut them into fair gold or silver dishes; and let him have a fair, good, and clean earthen pot, and let him put in fair clean water and put to boil over fair and clear coals and put his apples to boil therein. And let him arrange that he has a great quantity of good sweet almonds according to the quantity of apples which he has put to cook, and let him blanch, clean, and wash them very well and put them to be brayed in a mortar which does not smell at all of garlic, and let him bray them very well and moisten them with the broth in which the said apples are cooking; and when the said apples are cooked enough draw them out onto fair and clean boards, and let him strain the almonds with this water and make milk which is good and thick, and put it back to boil on clear and clean coals without smoke, and a very little salt. And while it boils let him chop his said apples very small with a little clean knife and then, being chopped, let him put them into his milk, and put in a great deal of sugar according to the amount that there is of the said emplumeus of apples; and then, when the doctor asks for it, put it in fair bowls or pans of gold or silver. Regards, Allison, allilyn at juno.com Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:28:37 EDT From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - OOP about apples I got this information from Tip=World and thought I would pass it along. Phillipa Although we now have over 300 varieties of apple in the world, only about 30 of them are well known, and not even all of these are available in the United States. In the next few tips, you will find a helpful description (in alphabetical order) of the 15 most popular varieties, followed by suggestions of the most suitable ways for using them. If you are buying apples to be eaten within a week, look for those with unbruised and unbroken flesh and with no sign of insect damage. They don't need special storage--the fruit bowl on the counter will do just fine, providing you with your own real-life still life. If you prefer a chilled apple, store them in the refrigerator in a plastic bag. The Braeburn apple is a beautiful red dessert apple from New Zealand. Sometimes in grocery stores, the stickers on them will simply say "New Zealand," but be sure to distinguish it from the New Zealand Fuji apple, which is slightly more acidic. The Cortland is a cross between the McIntosh and the Ben Davis apples. It was developed around 1915 in upstate New York. It, too, is a crisp, red-skinned apple, yet it works for just about everything--fresh, cooked, baked, or frozen. The Egremont Russet, often called simply "Russet," is named for its golden russetted skin. Its scent is nutty, and its flesh has a fine, hard texture. It is one of the best eating apples, but it's also excellent in pies and tarts. The Empire is a light-textured and juicy American red dessert apple. Its flesh is crisp and pale green. The Fuji is also from New Zealand, but its flesh is crisper, juicier, and more aromatic than that of the Braeburn. It makes a wonderful snacking or dessert apple. Its skin is red with patches of yellow. The Golden Delicious has been the best all-purpose apple since its discovery in West Virginia in 1914. It is sometimes called simply the Yellow Delicious. The Granny Smith has long been considered a dessert apple, because its hard, crisp flesh retains its shape during cooking, making it ideal for main dishes. The skin is tough, and it is the brightest green of all apples. The Greening was developed in Green's End, Rhode Island, at the turn of the 18th century. It is a tart, yellow-green skinned apple used mainly for pies and cooking. The Ida-red is one you see everywhere in the fall. Why? Probably because it is easy to grow. But to tell the truth, it's a dull apple--dull for munching into, dull for cooking with. Keep shopping. The Jonathan is another good all-round variety. It has bright red skin streaked with orange and a creamy white flesh, sometimes with little bits of red in it. It is juicy, slightly tart, and suitable for both snacking and baking. The McIntosh, another highly popular apple, was developed in Canada. With its flavorful, aromatic white, juicy, and crispy flesh, it is good both on its own or in desserts. The Opalescent, which arrives on the market in mid-September, is another bright red apple with a few small green spots. It is crisp and juicy, and good all by itself. The Red Delicious generally looks better than it tastes. While it does have a refreshing tartness, its skin is tough, and its flesh is crumbly, and sometimes it makes you say, "I can't swallow this." But if you come across a batch of Red Delicious apples that aren't too mealy, snag 'em up! The Rome Beauty is without a doubt America's favorite baking apple. It's a large, round, red apple that's not at all good fresh but keeps its shape and flavor when cooked. In addition, it absorbs flavors like a sponge and so is especially good in spicy pies and cakes. The Winesap lives up to its excellent name. It has a shiny, deep red skin, tinged with yellow. It's juicy and both sweet and tart, making it equally good as a munching apple and a baking apple. Apples not only provided a vital source of food and drink, they were also an invaluable preservative for our pioneer ancestors' food and supplies. Apples were even used medicinally as anesthetics, antiseptics, sedatives, and stimulants. Below are a few tips for using apples that our ancestors knew well: An apple in your bag of potatoes will help keep the potatoes from sprouting. An apple in your brown sugar container will help to keep the sugar moist. An apple in your cookie jar will help to keep the cookies moist. Add lemon juice to an apple recipe if the apples you are using lack tartness or need flavor. If you cannot brush your teeth after a meal, eat an apple. Eating a raw apple will cleanse your mouth of more than 95 percent of bacteria that cause tooth decay. Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 11:05:49 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Apple butter The Neapolitan recipe collection has a recipe for applesauce: cooked, ground apples are mixed with almond milk, rosewater, and sugar, and cooked until thick. Scully says it is a parallel recipe to one in the Catalan sources. I looked at the recipe for "Pomada" in Nola, and it is similar, except that the sauce is cooked with whole cinnamon, cloves, and peeled gingerroot which have been soaked in rosewater, and the almond milk is made with chicken broth. (you could make a Lenten version with water, if you preferred). Since the sauce is apparently cooked without applepeels, and the dominant spice is ginger, not cinnamon, I am not sure how much it would taste like modern apple butter. Source: Ruperto de Nola, _Libro de Guisados_ (Spanish, 1529) Translation: Lady Brighid ni Chiarain (Robin Carroll-Mann) POMADA -- Applesauce Take apples which are sour and sweet; and quarter each of them; and prepare them; and remove the core and then put them in cold water and if they are very sour give them a boil and then take peeled almonds and grind them well; and put the apples in the mortar and grind them together with the almonds very vigorously and when they are well ground dissolve it all with good chicken broth and strain it all through a woolen cloth ; and put it all in the pot in which it must cook; and take ginger which is fine; peel off the skin until it is white and make of it little pieces the size of half a finger; and put them to soak overnight in good rosewater until the morning; then take whole cinnamon; and tie it with a thread jointly with cloves and scald them with hot broth and when the cloves and the cinnamon are scalded put the pot on the fire with the apples; and put a good quantity of sugar in it and when it is more than half cooked take the soaked ginger and the cloves; and the cinnamon; and put them all in the pot and if it does not taste enough of ginger put in a little which is ground and when it is cooked you will cast the rosewater in the pot and prepare dishes; on top of them cast sugar and cinnamon if you wish. Note: "Tie it with a thread" is the standard direction in Nola for cooking with whole spices that are then to be removed. Since the thought of tying threads to individual cloves is daunting to me, I think I'd make up a cheesecloth bundle and scoop it out afterwards with a slotted spoon. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:01:59 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Apple butter Sue Clemenger wrote: > Hmm, don't know who sent the first part of this message, but I've made > both sauce and butter, and would say, rather, that the chief difference > lies more in the relative amounts of time alloted for cooking them. > As far as ingredients go, I'm sure there are a number of local variants, > and of course, the taste of the finished product would also depend on > the type(s) of apples being used. > Hmm, it's almost apple time here....I just may have to trot down to the > farmers' market for ingredients....yum... > --Maire It was my understanding that at least some versions of apple butter are made with no added sugar, just apples cooked in apple juice until more or less homogeneous, and that a mix of apple varieties, including both sweet and tart types, compensated for the lack of cane sugar. I dunno, I think I read all this off an apple butter jar label. I also think a key difference would be in the usage. Apple butter is sufficiently rich that I would serve it pretty much only as a spread for bread and such, _maybe_ between cake layers, while I would do neither with applesauce, which I tend to see either as a stand-alone dish or as an accompaniment for things like meats, black puddings (yum!) and perhaps various frittery units such as latkes. Adamantius Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:57:38 GMT From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - Re: cider >Does anyone on this list happen to know whether Italians drank cider in >period? Italians I don't know about. Hard-cider production in the Asturias and Cantabria regions of Spain, IIRC, goes back to the Roman era, and cider is still a popular beverage in northern Spain. (Neat party trick: hold a glass by your waist, and a bottle of cider above your head. Pour the cider into the glass without spilling. This is the traditional method of pouring cider in Asturias; this supposedly aerates the beverage.) I don't know if the Italians would have considered cider to be an appropriate beverage, particularly if it soured quickly. You could try a couple of apple recipes from De Nola, who cooked for the King of Naples: Pomada (Sauce with Apples) Take apples that are tart and sweet; and cut each one into fourths, and peel them; and remove the cores and then put them in cold water and if they are very tart give them a boil and then take blanched almonds and grind them well; and put the apples in the water and grind them with the almonds very vigorously; and when this is all ground together thin it with good chicken stock and force it through a strainer, and put it all in the pot you will cook with; and take fine white ginger and peel it so that it is all white; and cut it into little pieces about half the size of dice; and let them soak overnight in rosewater that should be fine; then take whole cinnamon and tie it with a thread along with cloves and scald them in hot broth, and when they are scalded set the pot with the apples on the fire; and add a good amount of sugar; and when it is more than half cooked take the ginger and the cloves and the soaked cinnamon and put it all in the pot, and if it does not taste enough like ginger add a little ground ginger until it does taste of ginger; and when it is cooked add rosewater to the pot and prepare the serving dishes; sprinkle sugar and cinnamon on them if you wish. Mirrauste of Apples Take the sweetest apples and peel off their skins, and cut them into fourths; and remove the cores and the seeds, and then bring a pot to boil with as much water as you know is needed, and when the water boils add the apples and then take well toasted almonds; and grind them in a mortar, thin them with the broth from the apples, and force them through a strainer with a large piece of bread soaked in the broth from the apples; and all this should come out very thick: and once it is forced through add a good amount of ground cinnamon and sugar; and then set it on the fire to cook and when the sauce boils remove it from the fire; and add the apples that should be well drained of their broth, but watch that the apples are not scalded, so that you can prepare serving dishes of them; and once they are prepared scatter sugar and cinnamon over them. Let us know how it all turns out! Vicente Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:53:28 -0400 From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com> Subject: SC - Re: Cider <<Does anyone on this list happen to know whether Italians drank cider in period? >> << I seem to recall that the first "cider house" in England was established in fairly late period, but, again, this is a fair bit distant from Italy. Perhaps someone could enlighten us as to whether apples were prevailant in Italy during period, and from there we could conduct a little research. My uneducated guess would be that wine would have been preferred over cider, perhaps to such an extent that it's commercial production would have been very limited. This is, of course, only a guess. Balthazar of Blackmoor >> Platina (1468) distinguished between sweet apples which should be eaten in the first course and sour/astringent apples which were more safely eaten after meals. There were varieties that were early ripening, summer ripening, and those that kept in the winter, although he doesn't name them. His only comment re apple juice is that it easily turns to vinegar when pressed. Castelvetro (1614), writing for an English patron, wrote: "Here should have been the place to describe the enormous quantity of apples and pears we have in such profusion, but since to do so would take up more space than I have room for, I shall limit myself to describing only those varieties which you do not have in England." The only variety he describes is the Paradise Apple. He doesn't mention the general uses of apples in Italy; several pages later, he goes into great depth re the different types and uses of grapes, specifically wine-making. So, it looks like apples were commonly available as a food, but I don't have anything that says they were turned into something like cider in period. John Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:07:24 -0400 From: harper at idt.net Subject: Re: SC - Apples? And it came to pass on 18 Oct 00, , that Hoon, Twila wrote: > Additionally, does anybody have a period reference to baked whole or > quartered apples that remain "apple shaped" as opposed to apple sauce / > apple moy (sp?)? Vincente recently posted his translation of Mirraust of Apples from Nola. That's quartered apples cooked in almond milk with sugar and cinnamon. I think Granado has a baked quince recipe, and at the end says "and you can do the same with apples". I'll check later. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:25:32 -0600 (MDT) From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) Subject: SC - many digests and German things... The Kuchen recipe... I did check Baufeld, and the reference would indeed translate as a bundle of straw, and I have no clue what purpose that would have served. I would love to hear what re-creation you come up with. Apples in shape: Rumpolt (1581 German) has several fried/roasted apple type recipes. #39. take apples/ and hollow them out/ or push the core out with a hollow iron/ and make with wine a dough/ and cover the apples therein/ toss them in hot butter/ and bake (remember in German this still can mean fry) them out/ so the dough becomes crisp (or could mean quick - as in fry quickly) (the word is rech - don't have Baufeld to hand) / give it warm to the table/ and sprinkle it with sugar, so it is good and welltasting. #40. take apples/ hollow them out / and toss them in hot butter/ roast them/ till they are nicely brown/ take them out into a fish kettle/ put anis/ crushed cinnamon and sugar/ thereover/ pour wine thereover/ and let it therewith make a juice/ that it makes a short broth/ but do not let the apples overcook/ that you can lift them out whole in a bowl/ sprinkle it with sugar/ and give it warm/ to the table so it is good and lovely On a semi related note.. I just spotted a recipe (#37) for "Erdtepffel'" apples of the earth (related to pomme de terre? Potato? (has it been discussed here before? Sorry if Im duplicating: #37 "Earthapples" peel and cut them nicely small/ soak (or poach) them in water/ and press them well out through a closewoven cloth/ chop them small and roast them in bacon that is cut small/ take a little milk thereunder/ and let it simmer therewith/ so it will be good and welltasting. Gwen Catrin von Berlin Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:09:28 -0500 From: harper at idt.net Subject: SC - Recipe: cider sauce For many of us, apple cider is widely available right now, so here's a period recipe that uses it. It has the texture of honey, and a wonderful sweet-tart flavor. Note to non-U.S. cooks: sweet apple cider is a non-alcoholic unfiltered apple juice. I do not know what this sauce was intended to be served with. It can be spread like jelly on bread. I suspect it would go well with pork or duck. I also suspect that it would be a good candidate for canning, though I have no practical experience in that area. Refrigerated, it keeps for at least a month, probably longer. CIDER SAUCE Source: Diego Granado, Libro del Arte de Cozina, 1599 Translation & Redaction: Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Para hacer salsa de zumo de manzanas To make sauce of the juice of apples Take the apples, and without peeling them, grate them and extract the juice from them, as we said of the quinces; adding a little vinegar, and white wine, and take the clearest part, and for each pound of juice, put eight ounces of sugar, and cook it like the juice of the quinces, with the same spices. And two related recipes: Para hazer salsa real To make royal sauce Take three pounds of fine sugar, and two quarts of white vinegar without roses, and a quart of white wine, a little whole cinnamon, and make it boil all together in a new glazed pot until it is cooked, and have the pot covered, so that it cannot exhale, and to know if it is cooked, the sign will be that, in falling, a drop will congeal, so that touching it with your hand does not make it come apart. Serve it cold, and take care that it does not burn. When you cook it, you can add nutmeg, and cloves, and in place of the pot, you can make it in a casserole. Para hazer salsa de zumo de membrillos To make sauce of the juice of quinces Grate the quince lightly with a grater, without peeling it, and put it inside the woolen cloth, and press it until it has yielded all the juice, and put it in a flask until the thickest part goes to the bottom, and take the clearest part, and put it in a glazed casserole or pot, and for each pound of juice put eight ounces of sugar, and two ounces of vinegar, and one ounce of wine of San Martin, and cook it in the manner that the Royal Sauce is cooked, as described above, with a quarter [ounce] of whole cinnamon, half a nutmeg, and four cloves. Apple Cider Sauce 2 cups sweet apple cider 8 ounces sugar 1/4 cup white wine vinegar 2 tablespoons white wine 1/2 ounce cinnamon sticks 1/2 whole nutmeg 4 whole cloves Combine all ingredients in a saucepan and simmer over medium-low heat about 45 minutes, until the volume is reduced by half and a candy thermometer reads 220F (105C). Strain through cheesecloth. Pour into a clean glass jar. Refrigerate. Makes about 1 cup. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:33:00 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - RE: German Feast > > >Apple pillows (an apple quarter, battered and fried) > Ooh... I'd love to see the recipe for this! > > Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise From Sabina Welserin: 140 Apple pillows Take good apples, peel them and cut them into four pieces. Take flour, eggs and water and salt, make a batter, not too thin , pour the apples into it and put fat in a deep pan. When it is hot, put the pieces into the fat, until the cake rises, let it fry slowly. Turn it, let it also fry on the other side, then it is good. Bear Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:06:01 +0100 From: UlfR <parlei at algonet.se> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Was: ReApple Computers,Now:Back On topic DeeWolff at aol.com <DeeWolff at aol.com> [2001.12.12] wrote: > Anybody got any good period apple recipes other that applemuse? Appulmoy, but that perhaps counts as close enought to make no difference? Anyone tried the ones from Sabrina Welsherin. I'm thinking in particular of: 75 Another apple tart Peel the apples, slice them and roast them, cut the cores cleanly out. Chop them small beforehand and put beef marrow thereon and grated bread crumbs. Stir it together well, stir into it also cinnamon, sugar and