Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium


This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

raw-milk-msg – 5/20/12


Finding and using raw milk.


NOTE: See also the files: dairy-prod-msg, cheesemaking-msg, cheese-lnks, fresh-cheeses-msg, clotted-cream-msg, almond-milk-msg, kumiss-msg, cattle-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:53:02 -0400

From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fwd: [EK] Raw Milk at Pennsic

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


In case anyone's interested...




---------- Forwarded message ----------


Date: Aug 4, 2006 6:35 AM

Subject: [EK] Raw Milk at Pennsic (was Pennsic Chocolate Milk)

To: East Kingdom <sca-east at indra.com>

Cc: carolingia at indra.net


From the discussion regarding the change in the chocolate milk at Pennsic I

have done some scouting and found good news.  I have been talking with Adam

Dean of :

Dean Farms-Pasture Maid Creamery,

571 Cow Path Lane, New Castle PA


and he's quite excited to have our business. He knows of the SCA and has

been looking for new and exciting ways to sell his product. He has just been

certified this past January to sell raw milk from his farm.  He produces

about 300 gallons a day so supply is limited but available.  The milk has a

1 week shelf life and is fresh milked the morning it will be purchased.

Here's the procedure -


   - Call him at 724-944-7894 for availability of product for that day,

   or reserving a set amount for another day - this is a must

   - Calls and pick up must be between 8:00am and 12:00pm.  Since he is a

   small dairy he would like to consolidate times so he can focus on the farm.

   This is perfectly understandable

   - Bring your own container.  PA law does not allow him to sell outside

   of his dairy so people must have their own vessel

   - Raw whole milk (the only product) is $4.00 a gallon


Directions - 422 West toward New Castle.  Go right at the red light at 388.(north)

Go right at the second cross road intersection is 388 & Frew Mill.  

Drive a mile and a half.  Go right into a dirt driveway.  A half mile up the  

road you will see the sign for Cowpath Lane to the dairy.


Jacob Simon


Saint Phlip



Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:52:32 -0400

From: Tara Sersen Boroson <tara at kolaviv.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Raw Milk at Pennsic

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


That's a pretty good price - around here, where I can buy from, oh,

geez, maybe a dozen different farmers, I typically pay between

$4-$5/gallon if I bring my own bottles, plus fifty cents if I use a new

bottle from the farmer.  BUT... the milk I buy is all Jersey cow milk.

This farmer is using mostly Holsteins (plus a few Jerseys), which

produce far more milk, but of much lesser quality (about half the

butterfat, a fraction of the CLO).  If his cows are 100% grass fed,

though, it's a great resource even if his cows are Holsteins.


There's also a goat farm that sells raw goat's milk in Evans City, which

is a little west of Butler - Bryner's Haven Dairy, 123 Mt. Nevo Lane,

Evans City. 724-865-2418.  There are a bunch of farms closer to

Pittsburgh, too, but I'm not familiar with their reputations - if

they're grass-fed, what kinds of cows they raise.  You can find them

listed at www.realmilk.org.


Coupla notes, I've found that fresh raw milk has a much longer shelf

life than 1 week. It starts souring at one week, but it's still

entirely safe and edible at that point - I find that, with

refrigeration, I can typically keep it 14-15 days before it gets so sour

that it curdles.  Of course, it might not last that long in a cooler -

but then, it never lasts that long here either because it gets used too

fast ;)  Also, it's not accurate that he cannot provide bottles - all

the farms I have bought from offer that option, and they are all

licenced by the state.  The funky thing about PA law is that the milk

must be constantly agitated until it is sold to the consumer.  This

means that he has to bottle it and hand it straight to you.  He can

certainly do that in his own bottles legally, he just doesn't feel like

paying for the bottles.  That's fine, I have no argument with that; but

to present it as illegal for him to sell you a bottle strikes me  

as... odd.


Another thought, though it might be too late to coordinate this, out on

the eastern side of the state, there are a *lot* of great raw milk

sources (great = grass-fed Jersey cow, IMO).  If someone wanted to do a

course on homemade dairy products, someone headed out from here could

rein in a few gallons of cream and milk for making cheese, butter,

clabber, yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.  Hmmm.... you know, now that I

think about that, maybe I'll run a course like that some year I get back

out to war :D


-Magdalena vander Brugghe


Tara Sersen Boroson



Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 11:10:37 -0400

From: Tara Sersen Boroson <tara at kolaviv.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] More thougts on raw milk...

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


I just remembered that one of the farmers I've bought from raises Dutch

Belted, so I was inaccurate in saying that I only buy Jersey cow milk.

But, I've only bought from him once.  I prefer to buy pork from him...

Dang, I've never seen pigs that big in my life.  I don't remember the

breed, but they were as big as freakin' trucks - and the ham was *so*



Anyway, on the tail of the chocolate milk thread... last year, I brought

to Pennsic raw milk and Midnight Moo chocolate syrup from Trader Joe's.

Now, THAT is freakin' crack.  Let me tell you, I was never a great

appreciator of Pennsic chocolate milk.  I mean, I liked it... but not

that much.  It sure hit the spot after walking around in 94 degree

weather in three layers of clothing, but I never felt the urge to write

odes to it. However, Jersey cow milk and Midnight Moo... now, there's

chocolate milk worthy of a sonota.


I'm on the verge of providing ya'll with a treatise on raw milk, healthy

cows and safety ;) but, I think it would be less preachy to direct

anyone interested to the book "The Untold Story of Milk" by Ron Schmid.

Having drunk raw milk for several years now, without ever knocking

myself out to keep it cold during transport or sterilize my glass

bottles (just washing them by hand with a bottle brush), making my own

butter and some cheese, ice cream, raw yogurt and kefir (yes, I let my

raw milk sit out - on top of the refrigerator where it's nice and warm -

for 48 hours at a time to culture it), I just want to say - if it's

certified, don't be afraid of it.  It's not potential medical waste.  In

studies, it tests cleaner than pasteurized milk, and it's harder to

accidentally contaminate because, when it's fresh, it's very

anti-bacterial (just like breastmilk).  Yeah, use common sense - don't

leave it sitting in a hot car for four hours while you cruise the rest

of the farmer's market.  But, don't freak because it wasn't refrigerated

for ten minutes while you walked it from one end of the farm to your

car, either.


-Magdalena vander Brugghe

raw milk enthusiast ;)


Tara Sersen Boroson



Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:10:28 -0700 (PDT)

From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 4, Issue 29

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org


Oh dear, I think I may have caused confusion.  When I

said it was illegal to sell raw milk cheeses under 60

days of age I was not referring at all to the milk

that the producer makes.  PA licenses milk producers

to be able to sell raw milk legally.  Federal law

states that *cheeses* that are made with raw milk

*cannot* be sold under 60 days of age.  This does not

refer to raw milk in PA.


I was putting out the warning that while you can't

sell raw milk cheeses, you *can* offer them as tastes

or as gifts.  I didn't want someone to make cheese

with raw milk, offer them for sale, and then get

burned for a regulation they were unaware of.






That's fine, I have no argument with that; but

to present it as illegal for him to sell you a bottle

strikes me as...




Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:37:15 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More thougts on raw milk...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


Tara Sersen Boroson wrote:

> Anyway, on the tail of the chocolate milk thread... last year, I brought

> to Pennsic raw milk and Midnight Moo chocolate syrup from Trader Joe's.

> Now, THAT is freakin' crack.  Let me tell you, I was never a great

> appreciator of Pennsic chocolate milk.  I mean, I liked it... but not

> that much.  It sure hit the spot after walking around in 94 degree

> weather in three layers of clothing, but I never felt the urge to  write

> odes to it.  However, Jersey cow milk and Midnight Moo... now, there's

> chocolate milk worthy of a sonota.

> -Magdalena vander Brugghe

> raw milk enthusiast ;)


I really envy you folks who can get it locally (raw milk, that is....).

Evidently Maryland has a law that prohibits the sale of either cow or

goat milk unless it's been pastuerized...I even tried purchasing some

"under the counter" from a local Mennonite farmer, but he was afraid

that he'd be caught and barred from selling his wares at our Farmers'

Market. Sigh.





Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:11:07 -0700

From: "Dana Kramer-Rolls" <danadkr at yahoo.com>

To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Raw Milk


I get raw milk, in Northern California, East Bay, Berkeley, at both Berkeley

Bowl and Whole Foods.  For those in my area, I prefer Claravale Farms, which

produces milk from Jersey cows, lovely and rich, much as remember as a

child, and as a young adult living in Germany.  I trust it implicitly.  So

far, I have been drinking it, but am making great plans for cheese making.

Maybe something to age from the curds and ricotta from the whey. Also for

locals around here, try Saint. Benoit yoghurt, if you don't have a good

culture or time to make your own. Again, full fat Jersey cow milk, not

homogenized. Both come in glass returnable bottles. We have a couple of

organic cheese makers locally, one of whom turns up weekly at the Berkeley

Farmers' Market, so I guess that is making me lazy.  Perhaps I am just

exploring tastes.  We also have a wonderful charcuterie at the market, The

Fattened Calf, where I can try all sorts of wonderful things.  Sausage

making is another interest of mine. At least I am supporting local farms and

business. You know, if we didn't have massive agri-industry, we wouldn't

need to be so afraid of our food, but I suspect I am preaching to the choir.

Do any of the Westerners on the list know of a local goat farmer?


Sir Maythen

Mists, West



Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:24:28 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Raw Milk


And there are states with active TB cases, so no you may not want

raw milk. In the case of Michigan we have active

Bovine Tuberculosis in the Michigan Deer herd which means

that dairy cattle in the same regions could also be infected.

We have one of the strictest anti-raw milk laws on the books.




On Jun 7, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Susan Lin wrote:

<<< I'm guessing if you google "raw milk" you will find as many proponents as

opponents. It is still illegal to sell raw milk in a number of states.  The

way around this is that farmers sell "shares" of a cow - that way you "own"

a share and are therefore entitled to get raw milk for your own consumption.



Shoshanna >>>


<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org