milk-msg - 12/15/13

Medieval and modern milk.

NOTE: See also the files: dairy-prod-msg, Dairy-Prodcts-art, cheese-msg, cheesemaking-msg, livestock-msg, butter-msg, clotted-cream-msg, fresh-cheeses-msg.

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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: NOMAD at ins.infonet.net (The McDowell Clan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Disgusting Recipes
Date: 27 Feb 1995 01:23:06 GMT

hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu says...
>Bill Tuttle (maclain at mindspring.com) wrote:
>: Can anyone tell me about period use of cow's milk?  I don't remember ever
>: hearing it mentioned as a common drink.  Why is that?
>
>Here are some possibilities to consider:
>
>- It needed no preparation before consumption and therefore was unlikely 
>to be mentioned in cookbooks.
>
>- It was considered a non-prestige drink and therefore was not served in 
>the contexts for which records were made (e.g., royal banquets).
>
>I'm not saying that either of these is "the" answer, just that they are 
>some of the factors to consider. In fact, you _can_ (with a little 
>effort) find references to the everyday use of milk as a beverage. Off 
>the top of my head, I can pull up a literary reference in the medieval 
>Welsh tale "The Dream of Rhonabwy" where a miserly meal is described as 
>consisting of "barley bread, cheese, and watered milk".
>
>Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

The following is an excert from Fabulous Feasts, Medieval cookery and 
Ceremony by Madeliene Pelner Cosman. ISBN: 0-8076-0898-X.

Cow's milk, but especially sheep's and goat's, was used plain or skimmed or 
creamed or "crudded" or "clotted. Not only for making butters and cheeses 
(the so-called "white meat" or "white food"), milk curds were added to 
puddings and sauces. Milk heated, combined with wine or ale and spices, and 
so curdled, was known as posset, drunk alone or, in turn, added to other 
recipes. Ground nuts boiled in milk yielded both a drink and a stock for 
soups and sauces; one of several forms of almond was so prepared.

Padraigh, newbie in training.
Deodar, Calontir. 


From: CXYB76A at prodigy.com (Elizabeth Estep)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dinner in Poland in 1220
Date: 14 Jul 1995 01:06:37 GMT

I don't know anything about Polish food, but I do know that England, 14th 
century, milk might have served as a "caudle" a sweetened or enriched 
flavored milk drink. 
I'm not sure if this would have been served at a feast per se, as it 
seems to be a drink for invalids, but it might have been made up 
especially for someone old, young, or sick who attended the feast, or 
requested by someone (with the clout to the get the kitchen to bother) 
who wanted it. 
I've tried caudles a couple of times at home, and my husband liked them 
as a sweetisht drink, the same way he likes chocolate milk. 

ELIZABETH ESTEP  CXYB76A at prodigy.com
ska Angharad ferch Tangwystl


Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:46:13 -0800
From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>
Subject: Re: SC - redaction challenge/milk question

kat wrote:
snip
> Wow!  Could "new Milke warme" actually refer to milk straight from the cow, so to speak?  I mean, that's as new as it gets; and it's certainly warm at the time (don't know exact cow temperature, but assume prolly 90+ degrees)...
>
> Did they do that???

You bet they did. Pasturization is new and refrigeration is even newer.
But why assume cow milk? They drank sheep and goat milk too. I havn't
been able to document arabic peoples drinking milk, but it's easy for
europeans.

Sources for the purists:
Anthimus. _De Observatio Ciborum_. circa 526CE. Translated by Weber,
Shirley Howard. Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum: Text, Commentary and
Glossary with a Study of the Latinity. Dissertation…. Published by E.J.
Brill Ltd., Leiden 1924.

LXXVI The Same (Of Milk)
Of milk, -- for well people, -- if anyone wishes to drink raw milk, let
him have mixed with it wine or mead, and if there is not any of these
drinks, let a little salt be put in, and it does not then congeal
inside…. If, however, it is drunk as it is milked, warm, in this way it
does no harm. If a little honey or wine be mixed with it, it is better
to take. And if one wished to act more carefully, let [a cow or] a goat
or a sheep be milked in his presence;… and as the milk is drawn is
should not get cold, but be drunk warm.

Ratti, Oscar. and Westbrook, Adele. Translators and adaptors. _The
Medieval Health Handbook_. Orginal Italian edition _Tacinum Sanitatis_.
Lusia Arano, editor. Publsihed by George Braziller, Inc. New York. 1976
ISBN 0-8076-0808-4 (Text and pictures from Tacuinas of the Po valley,
circa 1390CE.)

35 Sweet Milk (Lac Dulce)
Nature: Temperate and sweet when warm. Optimum: That from young sheep.
Usefulness: For the chest and lungs. Dangers: For fevers. Neutralization
of the dangers: With seedless raisins. (f. 37v)

Crystal of the Westermark


Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:00:20 EDT
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Greetings

Marian.DeBorah.Rosenberg at washcoll.edu writes:
>  There is all this talk of getting the super-pasteurized Creamline milk.
>  Wouldn't powdered milk work just as well?

EWWWWWWWWWW!
NO!
Cream line milk is pastuerized, but not homogenized.  That means that the
germs have been cooked, but the cream and whey are not mixed, so the cream
gradually floats to the top and forms a "plug".  Most cows produce milk that
is higher in butterfat than 4%.  In standard homogenized milk found in the
grocery, they remove a lot of the cream, and homogenize it so the cream does
not separate.  What we are talking about here is milk that has a fairly high
butterfat content and is not homogenized, so one can skim the cream off the
top and use it for recipes calling for cream.  Powdered milk is almost always
low-to-none in butterfat.  and besides, it tastes nasty.  This stuff tastes
wonderful.

Mordonna


Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:39:57 -0800
From: Susan Browning <swbro at mail.telis.org>
Subject: SC - Medieval Milk

>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery
store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not?

Not.  I grew up on raw cow's milk.  We (me as little as possible) did the
milking, poured the warm milk through a large funnel like strainer with a
filter similar to a coffee filter, and poured it into jars.  A totally
different flavor, smell and texture than store bought milk.  For one thing,
you had to stir the bits of cream back into the milk as you drank.
Hope this helps.

Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt


Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:28:46 EST
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC Life span of cows was...

acrouss at gte.net writes:
>  Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery
>  store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,
>  how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?

I think we do care.
 1) Milk from all the older, "unimproved" breeds is naturally much higher in
butterfat.  It is true that milk sold in today's grocery stores as "whole"
milk has its butterfat content reduced to 4%.  even Holstein milk is usually
higher than that.
 2) Cooked (read pasteurized) milk tastes differently and cooks differently
than fresh, raw milk.

Now, I do care about the difference, but I refuse to use fresh, unpasteurized
milk to my fighters, and I am sure no one wants to take a chance on serving it
to their feasters.  So, if a recipe calls for milk, I usually substitute a
portion of it with heavy whipping cream.

Mordonna DuBois
Warrior Haven
Barony of Atenveldt
Kingdom of Atenveldt


Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:35:40 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>
Subject: SC - Modern vs. Medieval milk and cattle- Long

Anne-Marie asks:
>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery
store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,
how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?<

First off, our modern milk is pasteurized and homogenized, which medieval
milk was not. Further, our modern milk is set to very tight standards of
butterfat, which again, medieval milk was not.

Modern milk is produced under very high sanitation standards by cows which
have been bred for high milk production. The milk is then relieved of its
butterfat, and sold as whole milk, or relieved of higher amounts of
butterfat, and sold as 1%, 2%, or skim milk. Most modern commercial dairies
remove all butterfat, and return a certain amount, as needed, to the batch
in order to make the milk adhere to US standards for whatever grade of
(drinking) milk being sold. Many of the older people I know sat that modern
"whole" milk has much less butterfat than what they had as kids, and I tend
to agree.

Different breeds of cattle also produce different amounts of butterfat as
well. I happen to be a particular fan of Jersey milk, when I can get it,
because of its particular richness. The quality of milk varies not only by
breed, but by what the cow eats- for all my love of milk, onions, and
garlic, even I won't drink the milk of a cow which has gotten into wild
onions!!!!! The Jersey, btw, is an interesting breed- it was originally
developed, as I understand it, as a breed which is both useful for milk,
and for meat.

Another breed whose milk I thoroughly enjoy is that of the Murray Grey, a
beef breed, which developed as a sport from the Black Angus- it is
reknowned for its high meat to bone ratio (meaning more meat by weight when
you butcher), its disease resistance and ability to deal with harsh
conditions, its ability to interbreed with other breeds, whether milk or
beef varieties, and improve them, and the fact that its calves are born
small (meaning easy birthings), but gain weight rapidly due to the high
quality of their milk.

Which brings me back around to the original intent of the question
Anne-Marie posed, the difference between modern and period milk. First off,
their cattle were pretty much any old cattle, bred for both meat and milk,
not to mention usage as oxen- all around beasties. In modern times, we
rarely use oxen, and if we raise cattle, we're raising them for meat, milk,
and veal, veal being an offshoot of the milk industry- male calves which
are sold since they will prevent the mothers from milking ( a Momma cow CAN
stop the milk flowing by an act of will, if she has a calf she wants to
feed).

Further, Medieval cattle were not fed as "scientifically" and consistantly
as our cattle are, so their milk would vary in quality by the season and
the forage they could get.

And now, pasteurization and homogenization. Pasteurization was developed by
Louis Pasteur as a method for helping milk keep longer- all it is, is heat
treating the milk so all the little beasties in it die, and don't cause it
to spoil as quickly. We moderns are much smarter than that- we seldom have
little beasties in the milk, we've replaced them with all sorts of hormones
and chemicals.

Homogenization is a process which agitates the milk so that the butterfat
doesn't separate out- after all, if it did that, we could make our own
butter, cream, and skim milk, thus depriving businessfolk every where of an
easy buck.

In the recipes I've been redacting for personal, and hopefully, later
feast, usage, I have been using whole milk, and keeping cream on hand, in
case I feel the recipe needs a bit more butterfat. I suspect that if I ever
do a feast, I'll get raw milk from a friend of mine who raises cows
organically locally, and pasteurize it myself, as I do my own milk, as I
have the time.

Phlip
Caer Frig
Barony of the Middle Marches
Middle Kingdom


Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 18:03:17 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - medieval milk

Anne-Marie asks:
>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery
store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,
how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?<

In reading Waverly Root's "Food", I note he comments:
The medieval world used little milk, partly because medieval cows did
well to produce enough of it in a week to make a pound of butter. England
had more milk than most other countries, and referred to it as "white
meat".

Perhaps this would account for the scarcity of butter mentioned in some
cookbooks mentioned here earlier.

He also backs up some of what others have said here in "Alas, every
'improvement' which has been effected in the handling of milk has been
paid for by a deterioration of its taste-even in the case of
pasteurization...." "One may ask oneself wistfully whether, if the
tuberculin test had come in twenty years before pasteurization instead
of the other way around, we would not be drinking tastier milk today"

And more unusually:
"In the Middle Ages children were sometimes put to suckle a sow, and
vice versa; I have seen an old engraving showing a woman giving one
breast to her child and the other to a piglet."

Lord Stefan li Rous
Ansteorra
stefan at texas.net


Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:58:07 EST
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: drinks

I am serving a 12th C Irish feast Mar 25 and am considering serving a few 
different things. I'd like the lists opinion. 

Soft Cider, slightly warmed (maybe with some lemon slices, but I'm trying not 
to have spices in it in order to have the drinks refreshing)

Milk - my references abound with the use of milk, cows were VERY popular, and 
unless you are slaughtering them all, you're going to have ALOT of milk- But 
would adults drink it? There are mentions of milk being drank by monks in the 
monasteries of St. Colmcille (St.Columba) which is 6th C and of St. Adamnan 
(11 C IIRC) Is it reasonable to conclude that outside of monastaries, milk 
would have been served as a drink during a feast?

Chilled water- I wanted something fresh and light, seems to fit the bill

Any thoughts on this, or suggestions?

Hauviette


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:34:59 -0000
From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
Subject: Re: SC - OT - freezing things

Merald wrote:
> Speaking of freezing things, can you freeze milk?  I will need some mares
>milk at a time that is inconvenient to find it, and it is available now...

Mare’s milk freezes well (that’s how it is sold here, when available) but
may be somewhat grainier when thawed and the taste may be slightly affected.
When thawing, it is best to submerge the milk container in cold water and
defrost it slowly.

Nanna


Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:01:43 EDT
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: SC - non-homogenised milk

>  I have an aunt that used to buy milk in bulk and freeze it until needed. 
>  
>  The milk, when allowed to thaw completely did indeed separate, and tasted 
>  fine.   

Actually I have been freezing milk for as long as I can remember. In Ontario, 
milk comes in 1 ltre bags that are sold in three's. Works great, because you 
can set the frozen bags in a sink of cool water to thaw them. I just had no 
idea that this "unhomogenized" them. Cool. 

Thanks for posting this info. Learn somthin new everyday!

Hauviette


Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:54:37 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes, recent study
	on vitamin absorption
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

At 07:45 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote:
> What makes you say that sheep milk is healthier than cow milk? Also,
> given the number of manuscript illos that show cows being milked vs  the
> number that show sheep being milked (I cant think of any, actually...)
> what led you to believe that non cows milk would be so prevalent?
>
> Intrigued....
> --Anne-Marie, who grew up on goats milk....

I can't address the health of sheep's milk, but there's a great sketch of a
sheep being milked in the Lutrell Psalter- the pic where the sheep are in
the pen. There's a guy milking a sheep right in the middle.

I drank a lot of goat's milk as a kid too- we lived across the street from a
family who raised goats. And when they went on vacation, I did the milking
(and I think I could live the rest of my life without ever doing it again).
But my older daughter, Anne-Marie (SCA Rotrude), is allergic to goat's
milk, and breaks out in a very exciting rash. I've wondered if it had
anything to do with my consumption as a kid. (pun not intended- it just
horned in there...)

'Lainie


Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:23:43 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes, recent study
	on vitamin absorption
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
> What makes you say that sheep milk is healthier than cow milk? Also,
> given the number of manuscript illos that show cows being milked vs the
> number that show sheep being milked (I cant think of any, actually...)
> what led you to believe that non cows milk would be so prevalent?
>
> Intrigued....
> --Anne-Marie, who grew up on goats milk....

Many of us, and i include myself, have certain "prejudices" about
what sorts of food we cook, i.e., we may try to concentrate on the
foods of the culture of our persona. My areas of interest and
preference are around the Mediterranean and into the Middle East,
although i do cook English and German food for feasts, as well, and
have those well-known basic sources on Russian and Polish food in my
library.

I know that in the Mediterranean areas sheep's milk was more common
than cow's milk - frequently for environmental reasons - both
geography and weather. The fats in the milk of sheep and goats are
different from the fats in cow's milk, being more-or-less naturally
"homogenized" in sheep and goat's milk. Because of this, there's no
cream that floats to the surface in these milks. Their fats are also
digested differently by humans and used by our bodies differently
than cow's milk, and they are less likely to cause the same hazards
to health as cow's fats are.

I don't have all the exact information to hand at the moment, but i
can look it up.

The natural sugars are also different and people who have trouble
digesting lactose in cow's milk can often digest sheep or goat's milk.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

who is a real dairy fiend, but less enamored of meats


Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:08:50 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes,	recent study
	on vitamin absorption
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Hi from Anne-Marie, with science geek hat on....

Its true that the fat globules in goats milk are smaller than the ones
in cows milk, making it easier for some people to digest. But lactose is
lactose, regardless of the source. And in fact, goat milk is often
higher in fat than cows milk, which by the time you buy it has been
standardardized to about 4% butterfat (point of reference...my Nubians
would produce milk at about 18% butterfat, while my saanens were about
12% or more, and the alpines were a mere 8%...) an exception to this
would be Jersey milk, but unless you're getting from a Jersey specialty
dairy... and those smaller fat globules? Means the milk is naturally
homogenized, sure, but that means all that fat is IN the milk, not
having been easily scraped off the top...(I spent MANY Hours separating
the cream from our goats milk with a big ol' tinned metal contraption.
Mmmm. Goats milk ice cream....)

Add to that the fact that most goats milk is either raw (ie much shorter
shelf life, so potential of spoilage) or so over processed its really
nasty :P and I really was wondering where folks thought that goat milk
was healthier.

Now, don't get me wrong. Fresh milk from animals with names I DO believe
is healthier than the stuff from the store (hormones, over processing,
over packaging, etc) but that has nothing to do with the species of the
source.

I also fully accept the idea that the culture you’re focusing on will
potentially change your milk source. Cows like big grassey fields and
lots of rain. Goats and sheep like Greece and the Pyranees ;). But I'd
be careful about assuming anything. As I said, given the prevalence of
visual sources like manuscript illos for medieval western Europe, I'd be
very hesitant to say that goats or sheep was the primary milk source for
them.

Lastly, when producing food for large numbers of folks, I'd be hesitant
to use milk that hadn't been brucellosis and DHI tested. The potential
of impact on anyone with immune system problems, or the very old or the
very young is just too scary for me.

Just my observations...
--AM


Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:04:23 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scalding milk
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On May 31, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Caointiarn wrote:
>  My Protogete is making bread pudding from an ancient family heirloom
> cookbook recipe,  and the instructions tell her to scald the milk.  She
> wants to know  "WHY?" and I didn't have an answer for her.   So I bring the
> question here for an answer.  Is the scalding of milk still really necessary?
> 
> Caointiarn

There are some potential benefits, depending on circumstances. If
you're using unhomogenized milk, it's less likely to curdle under
high heat if you scald it first. In this case I assume it has to do
with the mechanics of custard-making, tempering egg yolks to prevent
curdling, get a smoother custard, etc. Kind of like the difference
between a cheesecake baked in a water bath versus one without it.
Some people claim it's not essential, but many can detect a
difference and think it's better to do it.

In the case of a bread pudding I'd do it; the overall baking time is
less, and you're less likely to get watery curdy masses around the
edges while waiting for the middle to be cooked through.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:30:45 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scalding milk
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:23 PM -0400 "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus
Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net> wrote:

> On May 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote:
>> What about in bread or sweet yeast dough type receipts from ye old
>> family heirloom cookbook?
>
> I wonder if, in the case of yeast doughs, it's basically to sterilize
> the milk so weird bacteria, unexpected yeast strains, or odd flavors
> in general don't propagate over the time of proofing.
>
>> Use to do it all the time because the recipe said so... now it's a
>> step I skip, or shorten to warming the milk so it's not ice cold...
>
> It's probably less of an issue for us today, but perhaps it matters.

Found this at <http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm>

You must scald milk before using it in certain recipes

This myth has some basis in fact. Raw milk (milk that has not been
pasteurized) contains enzymes that can interfere with the thickening action
of milk and the rising of bread. The scalding destroys these enzymes.
Today, almost all the milk that is sold has been pasteurized, a process of
heating the milk to destroy bacteria. This has the same effect as scalding
the milk, so by the time you buy the milk those nasty enzymes are already
gone. Unless you milk your own cow, you can skip the scalding.

Scalding can however be beneficial if you are making yogurt or other
cultured milk products. Even pasteurized milk contains some bacteria, and
they can compete with the yogurt culture and affect the result. By heating
milk to 180 degrees you eliminate most of these other organisms and give
the desirable culture bacterial a clean slate to work with.

Source: Kitchen Science, Revised Edition by Howard Hillman.
Houghton-Mifflin, 1989.

toodles, margaret


Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 05:55:27 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] new title: Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese

Back in February, we discussed on the list the problems with finding  
sources for goat meat. (We've also discussed goat cheeses in the past too.)
I came across a new book on the topic yesterday which people may find  
interesting.

Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough.  Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese

(Stewart, Tabori & Chang; $29.95) It came out this month. Description  
reads: "From appearances at the most high-end restaurants to street  
food carts coast-to-coast, goat meat and dairy products are being  
embraced across the country as the next big thing. With its excellent  
flavor, wide-ranging versatility, and numerous health benefits, goat  
meat, milk, and cheese are being sought by home cooks. And while goat  
is the world?s primary meat (upwards of 70 percent of the red meat  
eaten around the world is goat) never before has there been a cookbook  
on this topic in the United States. Goat is a no-holds-barred  
goatapedia, laugh-out-loud cooking class, cheesemaking workshop, and  
dairy-milking expedition all in one."

Amazon is pairing it with another book called Getting Your Goat: The  
Gourmet Guide by Patricia A Moore from 2009.

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:56:16 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk

The issue is that most stores sell nonfat dry milk in bulk.  The question is 
where do you get enough for a glass without buying two or three gallons 
worth.

Nonfat dry milk has a shelf life of around a year.  It doesn't go rancid per 
se (no fat), but it does undergo a chemical change that keeps it from 
reconstituting properly and it tastes worse than normal.

Bear

*****************************
I am confused...

Do the local grocery stores no longer carry dried milk in US?

(I know I get it here in UK at the commissary, and I almost never not have 
some (and I have never noticed that non fat dried gets rancid either...)

(I grew up learning about filled milk, and even drank some in the 80's in 
Japan, although my Home Ec textbooks no longer mentioned it while teaching 
there)

Arianwen ferch Arthur


Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:21:15 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk

Nonfat dry milk is skim milk that has been dehydrated to powder.  Whole milk 
and 2% are also converted to powder, but you will find them more commonly in 
commercial uses such as baking (look for whole milk solids in the 
ingredients .  The greater the fat content of the powder, the more likely it 
is to go rancid.

Filled milk is skim milk with non-dairy fats (usually vegetable oil) added 
back in and dehydrated to form evaporated milk.

Bear


Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:28:11 -0400
From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin <audreybmorin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk

> Is there some reason that "dried milk" is always the non-fat kind?

It isn't, actually. I've seen reported on other (unrelated) forums that, in
the southern states (close to Mexico), you can find Klim milk (and also
another one I can't recall right now), that is dried whole milk. They also
report that it is a hundred times better at replacing real milk than the
"regular" non-fat dried milk is when you can't have the real thing!


Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:59:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Arianwen ferch Arthur <caer_mab at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dried milk

What I "learned" in school and so forth:

The reason non-fat is so prevalent is that the full cream did not reconstitute well, the taste was unacceptable and the soldiers would not drink it, but would tolerate the non-fat when COLD. (and it mixes back with regular whole milk almost unnoticeable--In fact as an adult I learned that that is exactly what my mother did to stretch the budget so I grew up on 2% milk...)

The military needed milk overseas, back then they did not pasteurize milk in a lot of the overseas places so our soldiers were not allowed to drink it (in fact a gem I have heard is that UK did start pasteurizing milk after the war so the US military would buy it...

They experimented with adding butterfat back into the reconstituted dry milk but again the taste was unacceptable. They experimented and found that coconut oil and/or palm oil gave the best results. (I do remember my first glass of nice cold milk and the funny after taste from the filled milk in Misawa, Japan. (There was a risk of TB from the local milk and they tested us regularly for TB)

Now, like many things I "learned" the facts from many years ago may be apocryphal... so feel free to share what you learned differently and more recently.

Arianwen ferch Arthur


Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:37:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Devra <devra at aol.com>
To: sca-cooks at Ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] some new titles - commercial plug

from Poison Pen Press...

Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese - $29.95
Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. Here is a no-holds-barred goatapedia: a laugh-out-loud cooking class, cheese making workshop, and milking expedition all in one. This first US cookbook devoted to the topic of the goat includes recipes for meat, milk, and cheese. Hardcover, 255pp, color photos, index. Stewart, Tabori  & Chang.

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Edited by Mark S. Harris	milk-msg	13 of 13