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milk-msg - 12/15/13


Medieval and modern milk.


NOTE: See also the files: dairy-prod-msg, Dairy-Prodcts-art, cheese-msg, cheesemaking-msg, livestock-msg, butter-msg, clotted-cream-msg, fresh-cheeses-msg.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



From: NOMAD at ins.infonet.net (The McDowell Clan)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Disgusting Recipes

Date: 27 Feb 1995 01:23:06 GMT


hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu says...

>Bill Tuttle (maclain at mindspring.com) wrote:

>: Can anyone tell me about period use of cow's milk?  I don't remember ever

>: hearing it mentioned as a common drink.  Why is that?

>Here are some possibilities to consider:

>- It needed no preparation before consumption and therefore was unlikely

>to be mentioned in cookbooks.

>- It was considered a non-prestige drink and therefore was not served in

>the contexts for which records were made (e.g., royal banquets).

>I'm not saying that either of these is "the" answer, just that they are

>some of the factors to consider. In fact, you _can_ (with a little

>effort) find references to the everyday use of milk as a beverage. Off

>the top of my head, I can pull up a literary reference in the medieval

>Welsh tale "The Dream of Rhonabwy" where a miserly meal is described as

>consisting of "barley bread, cheese, and watered milk".

>Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn


The following is an excert from Fabulous Feasts, Medieval cookery and

Ceremony by Madeliene Pelner Cosman. ISBN: 0-8076-0898-X.


Cow's milk, but especially sheep's and goat's, was used plain or skimmed or

creamed or "crudded" or "clotted. Not only for making butters and cheeses

(the so-called "white meat" or "white food"), milk curds were added to

puddings and sauces. Milk heated, combined with wine or ale and spices, and

so curdled, was known as posset, drunk alone or, in turn, added to other

recipes. Ground nuts boiled in milk yielded both a drink and a stock for

soups and sauces; one of several forms of almond was so prepared.


Padraigh, newbie in training.

Deodar, Calontir.



From: CXYB76A at prodigy.com (Elizabeth Estep)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Dinner in Poland in 1220

Date: 14 Jul 1995 01:06:37 GMT


I don't know anything about Polish food, but I do know that England, 14th

century, milk might have served as a "caudle" a sweetened or enriched

flavored milk drink.

I'm not sure if this would have been served at a feast per se, as it

seems to be a drink for invalids, but it might have been made up

especially for someone old, young, or sick who attended the feast, or

requested by someone (with the clout to the get the kitchen to bother)

who wanted it.

I've tried caudles a couple of times at home, and my husband liked them

as a sweetisht drink, the same way he likes chocolate milk.


ELIZABETH ESTEP  CXYB76A at prodigy.com

ska Angharad ferch Tangwystl



Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:46:13 -0800

From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>

Subject: Re: SC - redaction challenge/milk question


kat wrote:


> Wow!  Could "new Milke warme" actually refer to milk straight from the cow, so to speak?  I mean, that's as new as it gets; and it's certainly warm at the time (don't know exact cow temperature, but assume prolly 90+ degrees)...

> Did they do that???


You bet they did. Pasturization is new and refrigeration is even newer.

But why assume cow milk? They drank sheep and goat milk too. I havn't

been able to document arabic peoples drinking milk, but it's easy for



Sources for the purists:

Anthimus. _De Observatio Ciborum_. circa 526CE. Translated by Weber,

Shirley Howard. Anthimus, De Observatio Ciborum: Text, Commentary and

Glossary with a Study of the Latinity. Dissertation…. Published by E.J.

Brill Ltd., Leiden 1924.


LXXVI The Same (Of Milk)

Of milk, -- for well people, -- if anyone wishes to drink raw milk, let

him have mixed with it wine or mead, and if there is not any of these

drinks, let a little salt be put in, and it does not then congeal

inside…. If, however, it is drunk as it is milked, warm, in this way it

does no harm. If a little honey or wine be mixed with it, it is better

to take. And if one wished to act more carefully, let [a cow or] a goat

or a sheep be milked in his presence;… and as the milk is drawn is

should not get cold, but be drunk warm.


Ratti, Oscar. and Westbrook, Adele. Translators and adaptors. _The

Medieval Health Handbook_. Orginal Italian edition _Tacinum Sanitatis_.

Lusia Arano, editor. Publsihed by George Braziller, Inc. New York. 1976

ISBN 0-8076-0808-4 (Text and pictures from Tacuinas of the Po valley,

circa 1390CE.)


35 Sweet Milk (Lac Dulce)

Nature: Temperate and sweet when warm. Optimum: That from young sheep.

Usefulness: For the chest and lungs. Dangers: For fevers. Neutralization

of the dangers: With seedless raisins. (f. 37v)


Crystal of the Westermark



Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:00:20 EDT

From: Mordonna22 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Greetings


Marian.DeBorah.Rosenberg at washcoll.edu writes:

> There is all this talk of getting the super-pasteurized Creamline milk.

> Wouldn't powdered milk work just as well?




Cream line milk is pastuerized, but not homogenized.  That means that the

germs have been cooked, but the cream and whey are not mixed, so the cream

gradually floats to the top and forms a "plug".  Most cows produce milk that

is higher in butterfat than 4%.  In standard homogenized milk found in the

grocery, they remove a lot of the cream, and homogenize it so the cream does

not separate.  What we are talking about here is milk that has a fairly high

butterfat content and is not homogenized, so one can skim the cream off the

top and use it for recipes calling for cream.  Powdered milk is almost always

low-to-none in butterfat.  and besides, it tastes nasty.  This stuff tastes






Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:39:57 -0800

From: Susan Browning <swbro at mail.telis.org>

Subject: SC - Medieval Milk


>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery

store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not?


Not. I grew up on raw cow's milk.  We (me as little as possible) did the

milking, poured the warm milk through a large funnel like strainer with a

filter similar to a coffee filter, and poured it into jars.  A totally

different flavor, smell and texture than store bought milk.  For one thing,

you had to stir the bits of cream back into the milk as you drank.

Hope this helps.


Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt



Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:28:46 EST

From: Mordonna22 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC Life span of cows was...


acrouss at gte.net writes:

> Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery

> store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,

> how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?


I think we do care.

1) Milk from all the older, "unimproved" breeds is naturally much higher in

butterfat. It is true that milk sold in today's grocery stores as "whole"

milk has its butterfat content reduced to 4%.  even Holstein milk is usually

higher than that.

2) Cooked (read pasteurized) milk tastes differently and cooks differently

than fresh, raw milk.


Now, I do care about the difference, but I refuse to use fresh, unpasteurized

milk to my fighters, and I am sure no one wants to take a chance on serving it

to their feasters.  So, if a recipe calls for milk, I usually substitute a

portion of it with heavy whipping cream.


Mordonna DuBois

Warrior Haven

Barony of Atenveldt

Kingdom of Atenveldt



Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:35:40 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: SC - Modern vs. Medieval milk and cattle- Long


Anne-Marie asks:

>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery

store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,

how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?<


First off, our modern milk is pasteurized and homogenized, which medieval

milk was not. Further, our modern milk is set to very tight standards of

butterfat, which again, medieval milk was not.


Modern milk is produced under very high sanitation standards by cows which

have been bred for high milk production. The milk is then relieved of its

butterfat, and sold as whole milk, or relieved of higher amounts of

butterfat, and sold as 1%, 2%, or skim milk. Most modern commercial dairies

remove all butterfat, and return a certain amount, as needed, to the batch

in order to make the milk adhere to US standards for whatever grade of

(drinking) milk being sold. Many of the older people I know sat that modern

"whole" milk has much less butterfat than what they had as kids, and I tend

to agree.


Different breeds of cattle also produce different amounts of butterfat as

well. I happen to be a particular fan of Jersey milk, when I can get it,

because of its particular richness. The quality of milk varies not only by

breed, but by what the cow eats- for all my love of milk, onions, and

garlic, even I won't drink the milk of a cow which has gotten into wild

onions!!!!! The Jersey, btw, is an interesting breed- it was originally

developed, as I understand it, as a breed which is both useful for milk,

and for meat.


Another breed whose milk I thoroughly enjoy is that of the Murray Grey, a

beef breed, which developed as a sport from the Black Angus- it is

reknowned for its high meat to bone ratio (meaning more meat by weight when

you butcher), its disease resistance and ability to deal with harsh

conditions, its ability to interbreed with other breeds, whether milk or

beef varieties, and improve them, and the fact that its calves are born

small (meaning easy birthings), but gain weight rapidly due to the high

quality of their milk.


Which brings me back around to the original intent of the question

Anne-Marie posed, the difference between modern and period milk. First off,

their cattle were pretty much any old cattle, bred for both meat and milk,

not to mention usage as oxen- all around beasties. In modern times, we

rarely use oxen, and if we raise cattle, we're raising them for meat, milk,

and veal, veal being an offshoot of the milk industry- male calves which

are sold since they will prevent the mothers from milking ( a Momma cow CAN

stop the milk flowing by an act of will, if she has a calf she wants to



Further, Medieval cattle were not fed as "scientifically" and consistantly

as our cattle are, so their milk would vary in quality by the season and

the forage they could get.


And now, pasteurization and homogenization. Pasteurization was developed by

Louis Pasteur as a method for helping milk keep longer- all it is, is heat

treating the milk so all the little beasties in it die, and don't cause it

to spoil as quickly. We moderns are much smarter than that- we seldom have

little beasties in the milk, we've replaced them with all sorts of hormones

and chemicals.


Homogenization is a process which agitates the milk so that the butterfat

doesn't separate out- after all, if it did that, we could make our own

butter, cream, and skim milk, thus depriving businessfolk every where of an

easy buck.


In the recipes I've been redacting for personal, and hopefully, later

feast, usage, I have been using whole milk, and keeping cream on hand, in

case I feel the recipe needs a bit more butterfat. I suspect that if I ever

do a feast, I'll get raw milk from a friend of mine who raises cows

organically locally, and pasteurize it myself, as I do my own milk, as I

have the time.



Caer Frig

Barony of the Middle Marches

Middle Kingdom



Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 18:03:17 -0500

From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: SC - medieval milk


Anne-Marie asks:

>Now, back to medieval food stuff...do you guys think that modern grocery

store milk is anything like real medieval milk? Why or why not? And if not,

how can we approximate the real deal? Or do we care?<


In reading Waverly Root's "Food", I note he comments:

The medieval world used little milk, partly because medieval cows did

well to produce enough of it in a week to make a pound of butter. England

had more milk than most other countries, and referred to it as "white



Perhaps this would account for the scarcity of butter mentioned in some

cookbooks mentioned here earlier.


He also backs up some of what others have said here in "Alas, every

'improvement' which has been effected in the handling of milk has been

paid for by a deterioration of its taste-even in the case of

pasteurization...." "One may ask oneself wistfully whether, if the

tuberculin test had come in twenty years before pasteurization instead

of the other way around, we would not be drinking tastier milk today"


And more unusually:

"In the Middle Ages children were sometimes put to suckle a sow, and

vice versa; I have seen an old engraving showing a woman giving one

breast to her child and the other to a piglet."


Lord Stefan li Rous


stefan at texas.net



Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:58:07 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: drinks


I am serving a 12th C Irish feast Mar 25 and am considering serving a few

different things. I'd like the lists opinion.


Soft Cider, slightly warmed (maybe with some lemon slices, but I'm trying not

to have spices in it in order to have the drinks refreshing)


Milk - my references abound with the use of milk, cows were VERY popular, and

unless you are slaughtering them all, you're going to have ALOT of milk- But

would adults drink it? There are mentions of milk being drank by monks in the

monasteries of St. Colmcille (St.Columba) which is 6th C and of St. Adamnan

(11 C IIRC) Is it reasonable to conclude that outside of monastaries, milk

would have been served as a drink during a feast?


Chilled water- I wanted something fresh and light, seems to fit the bill


Any thoughts on this, or suggestions?





Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:34:59 -0000

From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>

Subject: Re: SC - OT - freezing things


Merald wrote:

> Speaking of freezing things, can you freeze milk?  I will need some mares

>milk at a time that is inconvenient to find it, and it is available now...


Mare’s milk freezes well (that’s how it is sold here, when available) but

may be somewhat grainier when thawed and the taste may be slightly affected.

When thawing, it is best to submerge the milk container in cold water and

defrost it slowly.





Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:01:43 EDT

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - non-homogenised milk


> I have an aunt that used to buy milk in bulk and freeze it until needed.


> The milk, when allowed to thaw completely did indeed separate, and tasted

> fine.  


Actually I have been freezing milk for as long as I can remember. In Ontario,

milk comes in 1 ltre bags that are sold in three's. Works great, because you

can set the frozen bags in a sink of cool water to thaw them. I just had no

idea that this "unhomogenized" them. Cool.


Thanks for posting this info. Learn somthin new everyday!





Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:54:37 -0700

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes, recent study

        on vitamin absorption

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


At 07:45 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote:

> What makes you say that sheep milk is healthier than cow milk? Also,

> given the number of manuscript illos that show cows being milked vs  the

> number that show sheep being milked (I cant think of any, actually...)

> what led you to believe that non cows milk would be so prevalent?

> Intrigued....

> --Anne-Marie, who grew up on goats milk....


I can't address the health of sheep's milk, but there's a great sketch of a

sheep being milked in the Lutrell Psalter- the pic where the sheep are in

the pen. There's a guy milking a sheep right in the middle.


I drank a lot of goat's milk as a kid too- we lived across the street from a

family who raised goats. And when they went on vacation, I did the milking

(and I think I could live the rest of my life without ever doing it again).

But my older daughter, Anne-Marie (SCA Rotrude), is allergic to goat's

milk, and breaks out in a very exciting rash. I've wondered if it had

anything to do with my consumption as a kid. (pun not intended- it just

horned in there...)





Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:23:43 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes, recent study

        on vitamin absorption

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org


Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:

> What makes you say that sheep milk is healthier than cow milk? Also,

> given the number of manuscript illos that show cows being milked vs the

> number that show sheep being milked (I cant think of any, actually...)

> what led you to believe that non cows milk would be so prevalent?

> Intrigued....

> --Anne-Marie, who grew up on goats milk....


Many of us, and i include myself, have certain "prejudices" about

what sorts of food we cook, i.e., we may try to concentrate on the

foods of the culture of our persona. My areas of interest and

preference are around the Mediterranean and into the Middle East,

although i do cook English and German food for feasts, as well, and

have those well-known basic sources on Russian and Polish food in my



I know that in the Mediterranean areas sheep's milk was more common

than cow's milk - frequently for environmental reasons - both

geography and weather. The fats in the milk of sheep and goats are

different from the fats in cow's milk, being more-or-less naturally

"homogenized" in sheep and goat's milk. Because of this, there's no

cream that floats to the surface in these milks. Their fats are also

digested differently by humans and used by our bodies differently

than cow's milk, and they are less likely to cause the same hazards

to health as cow's fats are.


I don't have all the exact information to hand at the moment, but i

can look it up.


The natural sugars are also different and people who have trouble

digesting lactose in cow's milk can often digest sheep or goat's milk.


Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita


who is a real dairy fiend, but less enamored of meats



Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:08:50 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite Healthy period dishes,  recent study

        on vitamin absorption

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>


Hi from Anne-Marie, with science geek hat on....


Its true that the fat globules in goats milk are smaller than the ones

in cows milk, making it easier for some people to digest. But lactose is

lactose, regardless of the source. And in fact, goat milk is often

higher in fat than cows milk, which by the time you buy it has been

standardardized to about 4% butterfat (point of reference...my Nubians

would produce milk at about 18% butterfat, while my saanens were about

12% or more, and the alpines were a mere 8%...) an exception to this

would be Jersey milk, but unless you're getting from a Jersey specialty

dairy... and those smaller fat globules? Means the milk is naturally

homogenized, sure, but that means all that fat is IN the milk, not

having been easily scraped off the top...(I spent MANY Hours separating

the cream from our goats milk with a big ol' tinned metal contraption.

Mmmm. Goats milk ice cream....)


Add to that the fact that most goats milk is either raw (ie much shorter

shelf life, so potential of spoilage) or so over processed its really

nasty :P and I really was wondering where folks thought that goat milk

was healthier.


Now, don't get me wrong. Fresh milk from animals with names I DO believe

is healthier than the stuff from the store (hormones, over processing,

over packaging, etc) but that has nothing to do with the species of the



I also fully accept the idea that the culture you’re focusing on will

potentially change your milk source. Cows like big grassey fields and

lots of rain. Goats and sheep like Greece and the Pyranees ;). But I'd

be careful about assuming anything. As I said, given the prevalence of

visual sources like manuscript illos for medieval western Europe, I'd be

very hesitant to say that goats or sheep was the primary milk source for



Lastly, when producing food for large numbers of folks, I'd be hesitant

to use milk that hadn't been brucellosis and DHI tested. The potential

of impact on anyone with immune system problems, or the very old or the

very young is just too scary for me.


Just my observations...




Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:04:23 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scalding milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


On May 31, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Caointiarn wrote:

> My Protogete is making bread pudding from an ancient family heirloom

> cookbook recipe,  and the instructions tell her to scald the milk.  She

> wants to know  "WHY?" and I didn't have an answer for her.   So I bring the

> question here for an answer.  Is the scalding of milk still really necessary?


> Caointiarn


There are some potential benefits, depending on circumstances. If

you're using unhomogenized milk, it's less likely to curdle under

high heat if you scald it first. In this case I assume it has to do

with the mechanics of custard-making, tempering egg yolks to prevent

curdling, get a smoother custard, etc. Kind of like the difference

between a cheesecake baked in a water bath versus one without it.

Some people claim it's not essential, but many can detect a

difference and think it's better to do it.


In the case of a bread pudding I'd do it; the overall baking time is

less, and you're less likely to get watery curdy masses around the

edges while waiting for the middle to be cooked through.





Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:30:45 -0400

From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scalding milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>


--On Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:23 PM -0400 "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus

Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net> wrote:


> On May 31, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote:

>> What about in bread or sweet yeast dough type receipts from ye old

>> family heirloom cookbook?

> I wonder if, in the case of yeast doughs, it's basically to sterilize

> the milk so weird bacteria, unexpected yeast strains, or odd flavors

> in general don't propagate over the time of proofing.

>> Use to do it all the time because the recipe said so... now it's a

>> step I skip, or shorten to warming the milk so it's not ice cold...

> It's probably less of an issue for us today, but perhaps it matters.


Found this at <http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm>;


You must scald milk before using it in certain recipes


This myth has some basis in fact. Raw milk (milk that has not been

pasteurized) contains enzymes that can interfere with the thickening action

of milk and the rising of bread. The scalding destroys these enzymes.

Today, almost all the milk that is sold has been pasteurized, a process of

heating the milk to destroy bacteria. This has the same effect as scalding

the milk, so by the time you buy the milk those nasty enzymes are already

gone. Unless you milk your own cow, you can skip the scalding.


Scalding can however be beneficial if you are making yogurt or other

cultured milk products. Even pasteurized milk contains some bacteria, and

they can compete with the yogurt culture and affect the result. By heating

milk to 180 degrees you eliminate most of these other organisms and give

the desirable culture bacterial a clean slate to work with.


Source: Kitchen Science, Revised Edition by Howard Hillman.

Houghton-Mifflin, 1989.


toodles, margaret



Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 05:55:27 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] new title: Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese


Back in February, we discussed on the list the problems with finding  

sources for goat meat. (We've also discussed goat cheeses in the past too.)

I came across a new book on the topic yesterday which people may find  



Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough.  Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese


(Stewart, Tabori & Chang; $29.95) It came out this month. Description  

reads: "From appearances at the most high-end restaurants to street  

food carts coast-to-coast, goat meat and dairy products are being  

embraced across the country as the next big thing. With its excellent  

flavor, wide-ranging versatility, and numerous health benefits, goat  

meat, milk, and cheese are being sought by home cooks. And while goat  

is the world?s primary meat (upwards of 70 percent of the red meat  

eaten around the world is goat) never before has there been a cookbook  

on this topic in the United States. Goat is a no-holds-barred  

goatapedia, laugh-out-loud cooking class, cheesemaking workshop, and  

dairy-milking expedition all in one."


Amazon is pairing it with another book called Getting Your Goat: The  

Gourmet Guide by Patricia A Moore from 2009.





Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:56:16 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk


The issue is that most stores sell nonfat dry milk in bulk.  The question is

where do you get enough for a glass without buying two or three gallons



Nonfat dry milk has a shelf life of around a year.  It doesn't go rancid per

se (no fat), but it does undergo a chemical change that keeps it from

reconstituting properly and it tastes worse than normal.





I am confused...


Do the local grocery stores no longer carry dried milk in US?


(I know I get it here in UK at the commissary, and I almost never not have

some (and I have never noticed that non fat dried gets rancid either...)


(I grew up learning about filled milk, and even drank some in the 80's in

Japan, although my Home Ec textbooks no longer mentioned it while teaching



Arianwen ferch Arthur



Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:21:15 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk


Nonfat dry milk is skim milk that has been dehydrated to powder.  Whole milk

and 2% are also converted to powder, but you will find them more commonly in

commercial uses such as baking (look for whole milk solids in the

ingredients .  The greater the fat content of the powder, the more likely it

is to go rancid.


Filled milk is skim milk with non-dairy fats (usually vegetable oil) added

back in and dehydrated to form evaporated milk.





Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:28:11 -0400

From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin <audreybmorin at gmail.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dry milk


> Is there some reason that "dried milk" is always the non-fat kind?


It isn't, actually. I've seen reported on other (unrelated) forums that, in

the southern states (close to Mexico), you can find Klim milk (and also

another one I can't recall right now), that is dried whole milk. They also

report that it is a hundred times better at replacing real milk than the

"regular" non-fat dried milk is when you can't have the real thing!



Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:59:37 -0700 (PDT)

From: Arianwen ferch Arthur <caer_mab at yahoo.com>

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dried milk


What I "learned" in school and so forth:


The reason non-fat is so prevalent is that the full cream did not reconstitute well, the taste was unacceptable and the soldiers would not drink it, but would tolerate the non-fat when COLD. (and it mixes back with regular whole milk almost unnoticeable--In fact as an adult I learned that that is exactly what my mother did to stretch the budget so I grew up on 2% milk...)


The military needed milk overseas, back then they did not pasteurize milk in a lot of the overseas places so our soldiers were not allowed to drink it (in fact a gem I have heard is that UK did start pasteurizing milk after the war so the US military would buy it...


They experimented with adding butterfat back into the reconstituted dry milk but again the taste was unacceptable. They experimented and found that coconut oil and/or palm oil gave the best results. (I do remember my first glass of nice cold milk and the funny after taste from the filled milk in Misawa, Japan. (There was a risk of TB from the local milk and they tested us regularly for TB)


Now, like many things I "learned" the facts from many years ago may be apocryphal... so feel free to share what you learned differently and more recently.


Arianwen ferch Arthur



Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:37:53 -0400 (EDT)

From: Devra <devra at aol.com>

To: sca-cooks at Ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] some new titles - commercial plug


from Poison Pen Press...


Goat: Meat, Milk, Cheese - $29.95

Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. Here is a no-holds-barred goatapedia: a laugh-out-loud cooking class, cheese making workshop, and milking expedition all in one. This first US cookbook devoted to the topic of the goat includes recipes for meat, milk, and cheese. Hardcover, 255pp, color photos, index. Stewart, Tabori  & Chang.


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