larded-milk-msg

larded-milk-msg – 11/8/05

Larded milk. A fried, fresh cheese dish.

NOTE: See also the files: dairy-prod-msg, cheese-msg, cheesemaking-msg, fresh-cheeses-msg, clotted-cream-msg, cheese-lnks, fried-cheese-msg, custards-msg, puddings-msg.

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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:50:29 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] larded milk recipe

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

1 gal whole milk

6 small eggs (4 large eggs)

4 oz lard

2 cups vinegar or lemon juice

1 tsp salt (not in original recipe but recommended)

cheese cloth

Part I: Making the larded milk

1) gently boil the milk and lard, stir to avoid burning the milk

2) once the milk boils, take the milk off the heat

4) temper the eggs with the milk

5) add the tempered eggs to the boiled milk

6) whisk well to avoid 'scrambled eggs', 8-10 minutes

7) once the egg/milk is smooth, add the acid to curdle the milk

8) make sure that the milk has curdled, separate the curds

from the whey by draining through the cheese cloth

9) press the liquid from to the curds so they become "as hard as a pigs liver'

10) form curds into a loaf

Part II Frying and Serving

a) cut the loaf into pieces as you like (cubes are nice) - the smaller the pieces the crispier they will be

b) place a whole clove 'button' into each piece

c) fry in oil until outside of the curd turns brown (about 1 minute per side)

d) remove from oil, sprinkle with sugar and serve

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:14:50 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] larded milk recipe

To: The Borg <The_Borg1 at comcast.net>, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Just the name of this sounds really gross.

Call it homemade cheese fried, then. *shrug*

> Has anyone tried it? Can it be served cold?

Yes, Christopher made it for the Poliudie dayboard. It went over very

well. It's not as good cold, though; it's best just cool enough to

handle.

The very enthusiastic eaters said it tasted somewhere between good

french toast and really good fried mozzarella.

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:18:12 -0500

From: "Martha Oser" <osermart at msu.edu>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Larded Milk

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Hmm, interesting... The recipes I have don't mention either lard or vinegar

or lemon juice. I was wondering how they got it to thicken.

The recipes I've been looking at are from "Libellus de arte coquinaria: An

Early Northern Cookery Book", edited and translated by Rudolf Grewe and

Constance Hieatt. Published in 2001 at the Arizona Center for Medieval and

Renaissance Studies.

This book is a compilation of 4 cooking texts that date (I think) to the

13th century - maybe 12th. Someone who knows the book better can correct

me.

The recipes are as follows:

From Manuscript Q

Recipe XVIII

One should take fresh milk, and add to it beaten eggs, and add pork meat cut

into dice, and add to it ground bark (cinnamon) and saffron, and let it boil

all together. Then take it up and let it cool, and cover it well while it

cools. Then let all the water that is therein strain off, and wring it in a

cloth so that all that is water runs off. Afterwards cut it in slices, and

place thin slivers on a gridiron, and broil it there. It is called "larded

milk."

From Manuscript W

Recipe XVIII

Next, one should take fresh milk, and add to it beaten eggs and bacon, cut

into small particles, and let it cook with crushed saffron. When it comes

to a boil, one should place it over the embers and cover the pot with a

bowl. Let the whey run out, and squeeze it through a towel. Slice the milk

thus and roast it on the grill; place reeds under it. It is called "Larded

Milk."

Both of these manuscripts then also give directions for taking the larded

milk and wrapping it in a dough made of flour, saffron and eggs and frying

it to make what's called "gilded milk."

So my newbie question then is am I missing some implied use of something

acidic in these recipes to make them congeal, or are the original cooks

simply relying on the thickening power of cooked eggs?

-Helena

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:42:00 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Larded Milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Martha Oser:

> Hmm, interesting... The recipes I have don't mention either lard or

> vinegar or lemon juice.

The lard is the bacon, fresh or cured, added to the mix in some

sources. Other recipes omit it and go to some lengths to achieve a

multicolored, streaky effect, which may or may not be an attempt to

recreate a bacony appearance. Which, given that most of the bacon in

the world isn't the stripey stuff eaten in the US, seems unlikely.

It's only comparatively recently that "lard" was interpreted to mean

"rendered pork fat".

> I was wondering how they got it to thicken.

Whole eggs, sometimes with wine added. Probably a slightly higher

proportion of egg than is represented in the posted adaptation.

> The recipes I've been looking at are from "Libellus de arte

> coquinaria: An Early Northern Cookery Book", edited and translated

> by Rudolf Grewe and Constance Hieatt. Published in 2001 at the

> Arizona Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies.

> This book is a compilation of 4 cooking texts that date (I think) to

> the 13th century - maybe 12th. Someone who knows the book better

> can correct me.

> The recipes are as follows:

> From Manuscript Q

> Recipe XVIII

> One should take fresh milk, and add to it beaten eggs, and add pork

> meat cut into dice, and add to it ground bark (cinnamon) and

> saffron, and let it boil all together. Then take it up and let it

> cool, and cover it well while it cools. Then let all the water that

> is therein strain off, and wring it in a cloth so that all that is

> water runs off. Afterwards cut it in slices, and place thin slivers

> on a gridiron, and broil it there. It is called "larded milk."

> From Manuscript W

> Recipe XVIII

> Next, one should take fresh milk, and add to it beaten eggs and

> bacon, cut into small particles, and let it cook with crushed

> saffron. When it comes to a boil, one should place it over the

> embers and cover the pot with a bowl. Let the whey run out, and

> squeeze it through a towel. Slice the milk thus and roast it on the

> grill; place reeds under it. It is called "Larded Milk."

> Both of these manuscripts then also give directions for taking the

> larded milk and wrapping it in a dough made of flour, saffron and

> eggs and frying it to make what's called "gilded milk."

> So my newbie question then is am I missing some implied use of

> something acidic in these recipes to make them congeal, or are the

> original cooks simply relying on the thickening power of cooked eggs?

> -Helena

I get the feeling that A) eggs are the intended main curdling agent,

and that B) the adaptation of the recipes as posted seems designed to

move away from the egg-curdling technology and closer to a more

recognizable panir/queso blanco product, which would be curdled with

an acid. I suppose this allows for the use of fewer eggs, if that

were ever an issue for some cooks, but otherwise I'm not sure why

this was done. If experiments were done which suggested the mixture,

made as instructed, didn't curdle properly, I'd look at both

homogenized milk and rendered lard as likely culprits (the tendency

of fat to prevent the formation of long protein chains is,

supposedly, why it is called "shortening").

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:09:02 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Larded Milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Martha Oser:

> Adamantius says:

>> Whole eggs, sometimes with wine added. Probably a slightly higher

>> proportion of egg than is represented in the posted adaptation.

> Ah, so perhaps the original recipe wants the eggs to congeal more

> and the cook to worry less about tempering them? I can see how the

> eggs would still need to be tempered and whisked in, or you just get

> a lump of scrambled eggs in milk, but allowing the eggs to congeal

> everything would seem to work. Then the "water" that runs off is

> really just the leftover milk/egg liquid that didn't congeal rather

> than an actual whey...

I think this is one of those dishes where a 21st century education

might be harmful. We've been conditioned to thinking a certain way,

and when a recipe suggests a method that is counter to our training,

we tend to come up with ways to change it and make it work before we

even discover, accurately, whether the given instructions actually

work.

Milk is a suspension of proteins, sugars, minerals and fats, in a

water base. Mix in eggs, which are largely proteins, and you get a

fairly protein-ey soup and, when heated in such a way as to denature

the protein quickly, the solids begin to pull together.

Y'ever made consomme? It involves the adding of eggs, aromatic

flavoring vegetables, and sometimes additional meat, to stock, and

bring it all to a simmer without stirring. What it does, in essence,

is causes all the little particles and extraneous flavoring agents to

solidify (there's a network of protein strands mixed throughout, and

these begin to shrink and solidify as the protein denatures) and

separate out from the rest of the mass, which breaks apart into

layers. One of those layers is a mass of egg, meat, vegetables, and

gunk, and another is the consomme, a highly-flavorful, crystal-clear

(we hope) stock. The only difference in the underlying science is

that in this case, it's that clearmeat (that's what it's called) that

you want and are saving, and the liquid that you're discarding.

I think that, if you use unhomogenized milk (which is a suspension,

as opposed to a semi-emulsion like homegenized milk), the same effect

can be achieved, and there won't be a lot of milk left behind. It'll

be whey, like the water that leaks from an overcooked quiche or

custard as it cools.

> Things to contemplate, though this suggests to me a rather "eggy"

> texture to the finished dish, which puts it on my list of things I'm

> less likely to try making and/or eating. Don't like eggs, unless

> they're in chocolate cakes...

I suspect the final product's texture and egginess quotient would

depend on how many eggs were used, and that you could tinker somewhat

with that ratio to get en effect more like what you want, and still

be within the parameters of the recipe.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:02:48 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Larded Milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Hmm, interesting... The recipes I have don't mention either lard or

> vinegar or lemon juice. I was wondering how they got it to thicken.

The Vyand Leche recipe uses eggs, milk, and ale...

I haven't heard back from Christopher yet, but I think the recipe he

used said to use lard on a meat day or vinegar/verjuice on a fast day...

-- Jadwiga

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:29:17 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: [jp_sca at yahoo.com: Re: [gordonse at one.net: Re: [Sca-cooks]

larded milk recipe aka French Toast Fried Cheese]]

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

From: "Christopher (JP)" <jp_sca at yahoo.com>

And the answers are: (and I hope this helps!)

> This looks intriguing. I have a couple of questions

> about how to do some of the steps.

> 8) make sure that the milk has curdled, separate the curds

> from the whey by draining through the cheese cloth

> ***Do you drain it in the refrigerator? About how long

> did it take to get to "as hard as a pigs liver" stage?

Ans: It took about 30 minutes to 'wring' (like a mop) the

curds dry

Place the cheese cloth in a strainer and pour the

whey/curds into the cheese cloth. Let it sit unit the curds

have cooled to the point you can touch it. Then use the

cheese cloth the 'wring' the curds dry. I placed the cheese

cloth into the frig for a couple of days with a weight on

it so as to drain it further. (place the cloth back into

the strainer, put the strainer in a bowl, put heavy object

on curds, put in frig)

>> Part II Frying and Serving

>> a) cut the loaf into pieces as you like (cubes are nice) -

> ***What size cube do you usually like to use?

Ans: about 3/4 inch - so it would stay soft in the middle

but crunchy on the skin

>> b) place a whole clove 'button' into each piece

> ***Here are you talking about the dried tip (stalk and bud) of the sweet

> spicy clove of the cloves you might put into an apple pie

> if they were > ground? (Or is this a sideways slice of a

> clove of garlic?) Do you put it > all the way in so it

> doesn't show or leave some part visible?

Ans: whole cloves, put the stem into the cube leaving the

flower end of the clove visiable

>> c) fry in oil until outside of the curd turns brown (about 1 minute per side)

> ***What kind of oil do you find works best? What depth

> of oil do you use in the pan? Do you fry it on all six sides or are 2 or 4 enough?

Ans: I used canola oil. The curds brown fast an do not

soakup oil so they do not need to be drained afterwards.

Yes, you must brown both sides (top and bottom) but the

sides take care of themselves.

>> d) remove from oil, sprinkle with sugar and serve

> ***Do you drain it after removing from the oil, and if so

> on/in what? What kind of sugar do you like to use? Is

> it important to keep the cubes from touching after they

> are removed from the oil to keep them from sticking

> together or is that not a problem after they are fried?

Ans: The cubs are not sticky so that is not an issue. They

also come out of the oil dry so I did not need to drain

them at all. Regular white sugar will do, but just a pinch

- it is after all fried custard.

> ***Do you think this same recipe would work if you used full cream milk or

> milk to which the heaviest possible cream or butter had

> been added in place of the lard?

Ans: cream yes, butter no. The original calls for lard that

is why I used it but cream would add fat too. I would say

to use at least 6-8 oz. heavy cream as a minimum to replace

the lard. Or just skip the lard and get fewer curds.

Christopher

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:11:57 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [jp_sca at yahoo.com: Re: what larded milk recipe?]

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise:

> This is the larded Milk recipe Christopher used. It's supposed to be

> from Le Viandier de Taillevent. What's interesting is that in this

> recipe lardons are equated with wine/verjuice for the curdling.

> Larded milk. Take some [cow's] milk, boil it on the fire,

> lift it down from the fire, put it on a few coals, and

> thread in beaten egg yolks. If you wish it for a meat day,

> take lardons, cut them into two or three bits, and throw

> them into the milk to boil. If you wish it for a fish day,

> do not add lardons, but throw in some wine and verjuice to

> curdle it before you lift it down. Remove it from the fire,

> put it in a white cloth, let it drain, wrap it in 2 or 3

> layers of the cloth, and press it until it is as firm as

> beef liver. Put it on a table, slice it into strips the

> size of a full palm or three fingers, button them with

> whole cloves, fry them until they are browned, set them

> out, and throw some sugar on top.

I wonder if there's a typo somewhere along the line: in Scully's

translation, there's a semicolon between the part about not adding

bacon on a fish day, and then the instruction about adding wine and

verjuice to curdle. I suspect a better colloquial translation for

that passage might be something like, "take lardons, cut them into

two or three pieces, and throw them into the milk to boil. If you

wish it for a fish day, do not add lardons, but [in any case/either

way] throw in some wine and verjuice..."

In other words, I think maybe there's been a slight shift in the

meaning of the word "mais", and it probably isn't an either/or

situation.

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:55:28 -0500

From: Brett McNamara <brettmc at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Larded Milk

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

From Recipe XVIII, "Let the whey run out..." it certainly seems that a

separation is expected.

I've made panir a few times. When the curds form, coaxed by an acidic

coagulant, the separation is quick and dramatic. Perhaps there's a

visible set point? Once that required number of eggs hit curds will

form? I don't know, but I'd be curious if anyone tries it.

Hint with the acid cheese method, which this seems cousin to, that

milk MUST boil. It should be frothy on top before you add the acid (

vinegar, lemon juice, buttermilk, etc. ). Adding a coagulant and then

trying to raise the temp seems to give mediocre results at best.

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:42:00 -0800 (PST)

From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [jp_sca at yahoo.com: Re: what larded milk

recipe?]

To: Cooks within he SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

--- "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net> wrote:

> I wonder if there's a typo omewhere along the line: in Scully's

> translation, there's a semicolon between the part about not adding

> bacon on a fish day, and then the instruction about adding wine and

> verjuice to curdle. I suspect a better colloquial translation for

> that passge might be something like, "take lardons, cut them into

> two or three pieces, and throw them into the milk to boil. If you

> wish it for a fish day, do not add lardons, but [in any case/either

> way] throw in some wine and verjuice..."

This sounds logical. The lardons themselves would not help to curdle

the mass, so you would still

need the acid to help the eggs along. Simply leaving the bacon out for

fish days sounds right.

William de Grandfort