fresh-cheeses-msg – 4/28/13

Fresh cheeses such as ricotta, cream cheese and cottage cheese. Non-aged cheeses.

NOTE: See also the files: whey-cheeses-msg, cheese-msg, dairy-prod-msg, cheesemaking-msg, Cheese-Making-art, cheesemaking-msg, cheese-goo-msg, butter-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period soft cheeses (was: Re: Is cheesecake period?)
Date: 22 Oct 1996 17:12:26 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University Computing Services

Monica Cellio (mjc at telerama.lm.com) wrote:
(attribution lost) wrote:

: >Is cheesecake period? If so, when and where?

: Cheese pies of various sorts are period, but not as sweets.  The closest
: thing I know of to dessert-grade cheese pies is from Digby (1669).  The
: closest approximation for the cheese is probably ricotta or farmer's cheese.
: Cream cheese is modern.

        This thread aroused my curiousity, so I did some fairly extensive
web searches.  Cream cheese does seem to be an American original.

        Most cheese websites claim a great antiquity for cottage cheese,
unfortunately without any references.  The one soft cheese that I seem to
have found a solid period reference to is ricotta.
The Sugarplums...All About Cheese site at <URL: http://www.sugarplums.com/
fieryfeature/c.html> shows a print of a painting entitled "The Ricotta
Eaters" by one Vincenzo Campi, who is listed as having lived between
1525 and 1591.

        Anyone know anything else about this painting or artist?

                Avenel Kellough 


Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 16:57:29 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other foods

> I saw somewhere on the web that cream cheese was close to a period
> cheese.  Then I read that it was not in any way period. (It was a while
> ago, but I thought it was on this list?) Is it indeed period? Perioid?

> Angelique

"Philadelphia style" cream cheese, as manufactured today, couldn't
possibly be period for Western Europe, what with the Philadelphia
appelation and the emulsifying gums used to keep the butterfat from
leaking out at room temperature. On the other hand, it may resemble
cheeses made from cream in period. Certainly there are references to
"cream cheese" in, or very shortly after, period, but they mean just
that. Cheese made with cream, and sometimes not only cream. Digby's
Slipcote cheese is a good example of such a cheese, which, BTW, makes a
smashing cheese for Savoury Toasted Cheese. Trouble is, that unless you
go to England and can find someone who still makes York cheese, you have
to make it yourself.

Philly cream cheese really appears to be little more than "dairy sour"
cream, a.k.a. sour cream or smetana, drained in a cloth, though. Of
course, you'd need to determine the secret blend of eleven preservatives
and chemicals in order to duplicate it exactly. My reason for mentioning
all this is that it's likely that if one wanted to find a period cheese
made from sour cream, the place to look would probably be Eastern Europe
and Russia.

It could also be that there is no non-factory made original. It may
simply be a modern invention. For example, when trying to find Limburger
cheese in its original form, as a wheel or block of cheese, with an
edible rind of mold, which I sort of assumed because it tastes so much
like Liederkranz, I discovered that for more than a century, Limburger
has been made in the USA, by blending a mixture of different cheeses
with cream. In other words, it's not that the original form is
unavailable. It's that the stuff you can buy in the supermarket, in
jars, IS the orginal form, more or less. The name, Limburger, is a
German spelling of a place in Belgium, but the cheese appears to be
American. 

IIRC, there is a recipe for cream cheese in Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt
Book, which involves letting cream sour overnight, and then pouring it
onto a large damask napkin, spreading it thinly. You leave it to drain,
and then roll it up like Lady Aoife's favorite, cabbage cream.

Adamantius   


Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:42:14 -0500
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Farmer's cheese - OT sorta

> I have a recipe that call's for farmer's cheese. I have searched all
> the grocery chains around here for it.  But to no avail.
>...
> Or, is there a mixture I can make from two other cheeses that will end
> up resembling farmer's cheese?
>
> Kateryn de Develyn
> debh at microware.com

take a collander, line it with gauze, drain a large container of cottage
cheese mixed with the little one serving cup of unflavored yoghurt
overnight, then press out the rest of the whey.

margali


Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:56:16 -0600
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #442

Kathryn wrote:
>I have a recipe that call's for farmer's cheese. I have searched all the
grocery chains around here for it.  But to no avail.  
>
>What is it?  
>What is a reasonable substitute?  
>Can I use riccota? 
>Or dry-curd cottage cheese?  
>Or is it more closely related to something else?  
>Or, is there a mixture I can make from two other cheeses that will end up
resembling farmer's cheese?
>
>Kateryn de Develyn
>debh at microware.com

Farmer's cheese is a rather plain, whole-milk cheese that is made "green" .
Anticipating the questions, green cheese is not actually the color green. It
is merely "unripened" or fresh. For farmer's cheese, rennet is used to make
a large curd. The curds are pressed with salt sprunkled amongst them in the
vate (cheese press). A Follower (press) and Weights are added to extract the
extra whey. It sits like this for many hours and drips whey. When it is
reasonably dry, you have plain green cheese or farmer's cheese.  Modern
store-bought cottage cheese is the closest you will get if you cannot find
farmer's cheese (we can get it easily in N.E. Penna). However, be advised
that cottage cheese is the above mentioned curds, cut smaller, with cream
added back to them after draining from the whey and a short pressing---that
cream is the "sauce" the curds are in. So you will either press the cottage
cheese to remove the liquid, or you could reduce the overall liquid in your
mixture.

Curd cheese would be something like cottage cheese without the added liquid,
or farmer's cheese without the pressing.

Aoife


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:13:55 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: carrot pie and Spanish cheese

And it came to pass on 13 Feb 99,, that david friedman wrote:
> >and for each two pounds of chopped carrots [use] a pound of
> >Trochon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese,
> >and six ounces of fresh cheese...
>
> This looks interesting.

I'd be tempted to redact it myself, but my lord husband *loathes*
cooked carrots.

> I assume the fresh cheese would be similar to the
> fresh cheese you get in the Mexican section of the grocery; any guesses
> about Trochon or Pinto cheese?

> Elizabeth/Betty Cook

"Fresh cheese" (queso fresco) could also be translated as new
cheese, if that helps.  "Trochon" is actually Tronchon; there was a
typo, for which I apologize.  I found the following description at
www.cheese.com:

Tronchon

Description:
Traditional, creamery, semi-soft cheese made from blended cow's,
goat's and sheep's milk. It has a shape of flattened globe with deep
crater. The natural rind is smooth, glossy and it has a color of
butter. Tronchon resembles a young Caerphilly. The taste is
aromatic, with a background of white wine acidity. The
origin of the shape is obscure but it is replicated today with
moulds. The interior is bone white and has many small holes.

Country: Spain
Milk: cow ewe and goat milk
Texture: semi-soft

In a number of other recipes, the author suggests Parmesan as a
substitute for Tronchon.

I have not found any description of "queso de Pinto" anywhere on
the Web.  I do have access to a rather good import cheese shop
near my workplace.  Maybe I can get over there some time next
week and inquire.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:41:56 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cheese questions

"Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" wrote:
> Cream cheese is a late 19th-century American invention.
>
> Raoghnailt

Yes and no. The bar of Philadelphia-style cream cheese, wrapped in
silvery foil stuff, is as you describe. Cheeses made from cream,
however, are considerably older. There are recipes for cream cheeses,
IIRC, in Digby, possibly Hugh Plat, and Elinor Fettiplace's receipt
book, all 17th century. The main difference between these and Philly
cream cheese is the emulsifying gums added to the latter; whether a
cooked dish calling for a period-style cream cheese would be massively
different when made with the chemical stuff remains to be seen.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:01:40 -0700
From: "Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" <rygbee at montana.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cheese questions

I have made fresh cheese with lots of heavy cream, and the texture is not
even close to the modern stuff.

Raoghnailt
Stan Wyrm, Artemisia


Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:07:28 -0500
From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net>
Subject: SC - Favorite Egg Recipe

Well, this contains eggs (or at least the whites) but I love this!

White Torta

Platina book 8

Prepare a pound and a half of best fresh cheese, chopped especially
fine. Add twelve or fifteen egg whites, half a pound of sugar, half an
ounce of white ginger, half a pound of pork liquamen and as much fresh
butter. Blend in as much milk as you need. When you have blended this,
put it into a pastry crust rolled thin and put it all in a pan and set
it to bake on the hearth with a gentle flame. Then, to give it color,
put coals on the lid. When it is cooked and taken from the pan,
sprinkle ground sugar over it, with rosewater. 

The interpretation as found in Cariodoc's Miscellany although I think 
that we used all butter or either half butter half shortening instead 
of the lard.  

1 lb fresh cheese: ricotta
8 egg whites
2/3 c sugar
1/3 oz fresh ginger
1/4 lb lard
1/4 lb butter
1/2 c milk
10" pastry shell
~2 t sugar
1 t rosewater

Beat egg whites to soft peaks. Soften butter and lard together at room
temperature. Fold together cheese and egg whites, then add sugar,
minced ginger, lard and butter. Mix until fairly uniform. Add milk,
fill shell. Bake at 325deg. for 40 minutes. When oil separates, it is
done. Put under broiler to brown top lightly. Sprinkle sugar and
rosewater, spread on with spoon bottom. Cool until set.

This is a little less butter and lard than Platina suggests, but we
found it too fatty using his quantities.

Melbrigda


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:29:22 -0400
From: "Bethany Public Library" <betpulib at ptdprolog.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Herb blends for soft cheeses--a question

Maire, try Dill and Chives, a great combination. Thinly sliced Scallions go
well with this as well. I do this all the time. Sprigs of thyme, chopped
oregano, marjoram, etc.. all go well. Try also Garlic and freshly ground
pepper. Try them out at home first.

You could also try serving it with sippets if you really want that cheese
and cracker effect.

Aoife


Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:49:28 PDT
From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Herb blends for soft cheeses--a question

> Documentation, please?
>
> Ras

>From my 'celtic' feast last spring, this would be documentation for Ireland, 
IIRC.  I'm pretty sure it was for fresh cheese with greenery/herbs, it might 
be curds. What I served was fresh, pressed but not aged cheese with chopped 
herbs mixed in.

Samit Cheese (Fresh Cheese w/herbs)
Source: Land of Milk and Honey: The Story of Traditional Irish Food and 
Drink, Brid Mahon,  Poolbeg Press, Dublin, 1991 :  pp. 4 (archeological 
evidence) 55(goat cheese), 91-2 (list of cheese types and names), 109     
follow up: Aisling Meic Con Glinne--The Vision of Mac Conglinne, Kuno Meyer 
(trans) London, 1892, 5-113

I don't know what the refernce on pg 109 is, sorry.  The follow up is a poem 
of a legendary host and the food in his lands, I have not gone back to it, 
but evidently learned from somewhere that cheese and or herbs are mentioned.

I don't know if I ever posted my cleaned up menu and references for this, 
moving day was bearing down.  If I did, I'm sure Stefan would have filed it 
away under Celtic food. If I didn't, Stefan let me know and I'll send it 
directly to you.  I recall trying to post another set of my notes and lot's 
of people had format troubles.

Bonne


Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:54:36 -0800
From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: First feasts

>>          Mato (Sweetened goat cheese)
>>Bonne

>Is there a recipe for this dish? Olwen

I have the recipe from Thomas Longshanks who is tranlating and slowly 
redacting each recipe in a spanish manuscript into a 'direct' recipe as well 
as a large quantity version made with more readily available ingredients, 
for use at feasts.  He plans to publish this some day and asked me not to 
share his work.

However, it is a simple idea:

Fresh goat cheese,sugar, orange flower water or rose water.  Mix. Eat. Die 
from pleasure.

I served this with a bisket bread flavored with coriander seed in the 
Fettiplace book, which I don't have at hand.  It had eggs, sugar, flour, 
crushed coriander seed, done up in the same manner as other bisket bread 
recipes. You can probably find one in the Miscellany or Florilegium.

I didn't serve the cheese spread on the cakes as I had no documentable 
reason for that.  But the presence of a dish of something spreadable and a 
stack of cakes nearby led to the inevitable, and it was good.

Bonne


Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:49:00 +0200
From: UlfR <parlei-sc at algonet.se>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Skyr?  and intro

Skyr is a form of fresh cheese that is mentioned in the Icelandic Sagas,
and still eaten on Iceland. Nanna, being the lucky one, lives on Iceland
where she can get hold of what is the real thing, baring any
evolution/changes that hs taken place over the last 1000 years. Here in
Sweden I have to make do with a substitute, which is the yogurt cheese.
Basically take a suitably tart yogurt, and let it drain from a thin fabric
bag.

ISTR that Nanna has earlier posted direction for how to make the
real thing, but you would need access to a live culture to do
that.

/UlfR


From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese of Aragon?
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:26:13 -0400

> I am going to try some recipes of Libre del Coch for a Sca commons this 
> Friday. Does anyone know what Cheese of Aragon is?? It's in #50.

<NOTE - See the file: Guisados1-art>

> Andrea
> Ostgardr

Queso de Aragon is also known as Queso Tronchon. It definitely dates to the
Middle Ages. It was originally a goat cheese, but is now made from a blend
of cow and goat milk. It is served fresh or slightly aged, it comes from a
ring mold with a depression in the middle, sort of a like a gelatine mold or
bundt pan, but the center depression doesn't go all the way through. If you
can't get it locally, try mail-order from a Spanish food store like
www.tienda.com. If you want more info, let me know.

Thomas Longshanks


From: Nambeanntan at aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 02:51:47 EST
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] good soft cheese, not too old

I found this on the net, it tells about new and not so new cheeses

Cheese is commonly categorized by degree of hardness, ranging from soft and
semisoft, to hard (or firm), very hard, and blue-veined cheeses.

Within the soft cheese category there are soft, fresh cheeses and
soft-ripened cheeses. Soft, fresh cheeses have a high moisture level, the
most delicate flavor, and are the most perishable. A fresh cheese is
unripened and retains much of the fresh milk flavor. (Unripened describes
soft cheeses that aren't aged.) Some well-known fresh cheeses are ricotta,
cottage cheese, cream cheese, feta, and mascarpone.

Soft-ripened cheeses have been allowed to mature to various degrees. They
also have a high moisture content, and though mild when young, they develop
a fuller flavor as they age. They ripen inside of a powdery white rind. Brie
and Camembert (which look and taste almost identical) are the most popular;
they have a mild, earthy flavor that blends well with a host of other
flavors.

Annan


From: "Barbara Benson" <vox8 at mindspring.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:16:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Angel's Food

> As in "angel's food cake?" Do you know if anyone has a period recipe for it?
> --
> David/Cariadoc

I am terribly pleased to be of assistance to you good sir! I make angel's
food frequently to take as "snackies" to events and share with friends.

I usually bring along pizzelles and a tart jam/preserve to go with it. You
smear the angel's food onto the pizzelle and then top with the preserve & it
is quite tasty. I also tend to pack shrewsbury cakes and have one good
friend who is in the habit of making a shrewsbury cake/angel's food oreo!

Happy snacking,

Serena da Riva


Angel's Food

Modern translation by THL Temair Carra

Ingredients:

5 oz fresh Ricotta cheese
5 oz marscapone cheese
2 T sugar
2 T orange flower water (to taste)

Mix cheeses with fork or whisk.  Mix in sugar.  Add a small amount of orange
water and increase if needed (amount will depend on the concentration of the
orange water).  Do not use orange oil.  Fluff before serving.


Bibliography: Libra de Sent sovi (Catalan 1324 or before)

Source: Menyar D'`ngels (con sa deu manyar matr cens bolir, o fformatges) Si
vols menyar lo mato, prin lo matr e met-lo en lo morter; e pique'l be ab bon
sucre blanc.  E quant ser` picat, axeteu ab aygua-rrs ho naffa, e met-lo en
gresals ho en escudelles ho ab qui.t vuylles; e drna-ho a menyar.  E si no y
volies metre sucre al piquar, met-hi de bona mel.  E axm matex sse ffa cel
fformatge ffresc, he diu-hi millor, e anomene's menyar d'`ngels.

Translation: If you want to eat the fresh curds, put the curds in the mortar
and pound with some good white sugar.  And when pounded together, blend in
some rosewater or orange-flower water, and put it in bowls or dishes or
whatever you like; and serve it at table.  And if you don't wish to use
sugar, add some good honey.  And you can do the same with fresh cheese,
which is better, and it is called angel's food.


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:49:10 -0800
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Angels' Food - a dish for the Angels

Here is a Dish for the Angels. It is from the Florilegium, from
Ruperto de Nola's Libre del Coch, translated by Lady Brighid ni
Chiarain. Is this "Angels food"?

12. DISH FOR THE ANGELS
MANJAR DE ANGELES

<snip - see Guisados1-art and Guisados2-art>
Anahita


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:26:42 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grains for Feast? - Menu question

Generys ferch Ednuyed wrote:
> Could I see the translation of the original recipe? I'd like to play with
> the redaction too, as it sounds like another recipe I like...
>
> Generys

I don't know what version Serena was using, but I found this one online at
http://www.lewis-kappes.com/LK/Pompeiiana/AncientRomanFeasts/96on_dir/96on_35.htm

Globes (Globi)
  Puffy little balls of cheese and flour, deep-fried in olive oil, soaked in honey, and sprinkled with poppy seeds "the best ancient "dough nuts" around 

  1 cup all-purpose flour
  1/4 cup dry ricotta cheese
  1/2 teaspoon dry yeast
  1/2 cup water, lukewarm
  olive oil
  1/2 cup honey
  1/4 cup poppy seeds

  1.     Put the flour and cheese in a mixing bowl. Blend well with the
finger tips until it has the consistency of corn meal. Mix in the dry yeast  2.     Pour the water into the flour and cheese mixture and blend well.
Let rest 3 minutes, then sprinkle with a little flour and knead until smooth
and elastic. Do the kneading either on a lightly floured surface or in the bowl.

  2. Return the dough to the bowl (if necessary). cover with a towel, and let
rise 1 hour.
  3. Remove the risen dough from the bowl and roll into a sausage
shape 1-inch thick. Cut the dough into 10 pieces, roll each into a ball, and
  sprinkle lightly with flour.
  4.     Pour enough olive oil into a deep pan so that it will float the
globes (about 1-1/2 inches deep). Heat the oil. Drop a few of the globes into the hot oil and cook until golden brown all over. Remove the globes when finished and drain the clinging oil. Cook the others.
  5.     Pour the honey into a bowl, and turn the globes in the honey until
  covered. Transfer to a serving plate, sprinkle with the poppy seeds, and
serve when they have cooled.
  Note: Dry ricotta cheese is available at any Hickory Farms Store.
                                         :
                                                          YIELD 10


Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:12:08 EDT
From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Angel's Food
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

selene at earthlink.net writes:
> I'm looking for the period citation for the sweet called "Angel's 
> Food," The one with sweetened ricotta cheese.

It's from Sent Sovi. "Menyar D'Angels" or Angel's Food.
"If you want to eat the fresh curds, put the curds in the mortar and pound
with some good white sugar. And when pounded together, blend in some rosewater
or orange flower water, and put it in bowls or dishes or whatever you like, and
  serve it at table. And if you don't wish to use the sugar, add some good
honey. And you can do the same with fresh cheese, which is better, and it is
called angel's food."

The above is from Santich's The Original Mediterranean Cuisine.

Ilaria


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: fresh cheese
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

>      Huh!  I redacted Sabina Welserin's
> "Genovese Tart" recipe last 12th Night -- a savory
> tart with  spinach, "fresh cheese" (I used ricotta),
> aged cheese (I used parmesan), and olive oil in a
> pastry crust.  <snip>

I looked into the fresh cheese/ricotta issue a while
ago, and pulled quite a few resources from several
Italian manuscripts.
You can see the articles at:
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/cheesenature.html
There are also a number of recipes for pasta stuffings
calling for fresh cheese at
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/stuffedpasta.html
In Italy sometimes ricotta is specifically called for
in a recipe, othertimes "fat cheese" or "fresh cheese"
is called for.  From my reading of the articles this
seems to be fresh mozzarella or a farmers type cheese,
rather than ricotta.

Helewyse


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:51:32 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Now that I've had some coffee, I may be a little clearer.

What you consider cheese depends on how tightly you adhere to the technical
definition, which is "a food made from curd of milk seperated from the
whey."  Ricotta made by cooking the whey and condensing it, so under the
technical definition, it isn't a cheese.  It is called "cheese" because 
it resembles cheese.  Picky, picky, picky, right?

Fresh cheese is cheese which has not been fermented, which usually means a
soft, unripened cheese (I can't think of any other kind of fresh cheese, but
I haven't tried them all).  In general, fresh cheese will taste sweeter 
And milder than other cheeses.

Under the strict definition, ricotta (and cream cheese) aren't cheese at
all.  Most people, however, ignore the precise differences and consider them
cheese.  In the latter case, ricotta would be considered a fresh cheese.

When fresh cheese is called for, I tend to use drained cottage cheese or
fresh mozzarella (if I can find it), but I would use ricotta if it was what
I had available.

Bear

> How can you tell it's ricotta as opposed to something else?
> And while I'm definitely not an expert on anything, let alone foods or
> cheese, I've always thought of ricotta as belonging in the fresh-cheese
> category, if only because my brain has categorized fresh cheeses as
> "those ones you have to refrigerate" vs., say a "cured" (?right word?)
> cheese like cheddar or roquefort or something. Perhaps the confusion
> lies in what we think of when we say a "fresh" cheese?
> --maire's two pence worth....
>
> Terry Decker wrote:
>> I'd say your cheesemaker is correct.  Ricotta is a condensed whey product
>> and definitely not fresh cheese.  That being said, there is a 16th Century
>> painting of formed ricotta being eaten by a group of people from a plate
>> using spoons.
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>      I'm curious to get responses from this group --
>> how appropriate is ricotta as a "fresh cheese"
>> substitute in redactions, in your opinion?  Thought
>> I might hear from some more cheese-knowledgeable
>> folks than myself.  After all, blessed are the
>> cheesemakers.  ;)  :)
>>
>>               -- Ruth


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:16:09 -0400
From: "chirhart_1" <chirhart_1 at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

But you are "Making Cheese" you do not just use the Whey only, You add milk
to the whey Heat it to temperature 160 to 180 ,add vinegar which
precipitates "New Curds" to form from milk added , to which the small
already made cheese particles addhear to.So actually you are making 
cheese. Not a lot, but some.

Chirhart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
> What you consider cheese depends on how tightly you adhere to the
technical
> definition, which is "a food made from curd of milk seperated from the
> whey."  Ricotta made by cooking the whey and condensing it, so under 
> the technical definition, it isn't a cheese.  


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Greetings, Ruth.  This gentleman sounds like a person
I'd love to talk cheese with!  :)

My opinion:

I feel Ricotta is entirely appropriate as a fresh
cheese, cheese made from whey is still cheese.
Ricotta, in particular, is actually the remaining bits
of milk fats and protein that were not gotten in the
previous coagulation which are coagulated and strained
out of the whey.  A whey cheese that I would feel is
not fresh cheese is Gjetost, cooked down and
carmelized whey.  Gjetost keeps very well and so is
rarely sold fresh, but it can be made fresh if you
have the time to stand over your pot and stir. <G>  I
did that once and once was enough!

Ricotta must be made from freshly made whey, a
by-product of making a fuller-fat cheese, no more than
one hour old - and it only lasts for a short period of
time.  It was such a widely used cheese in period that
they tried to find ways to preserve it longer.  One
method was by salting and pressing as much of the
moisture out of it, this is Ricotta Salata.  There is
also a smoked version.  Another method was to drain it
further in baskets and to age it, allowing the
moisture to dry out of the cheese.  This is called
Ricotta Stagionata and is used for grating.

Other fresh cheeses that are good choices are cottage
cheese, quark, young slipcoat cheese, straight curds,
neufchatel (french cream cheese), and yogurt.  Also,
cheeses can be eaten at any point in their aging
cycle.  That batch of gouda that you just took out of
the press is considered a young/fresh cheese, until it
begins to form its rind.  There are only a few of the
cheeses that can only be eaten fresh as they do not
age at all due to their high whey content (see those
listed above).  It's the whey that causes a cheese to
go bad as it is a prime breeding ground for mold
spores.

Cheese is a living, breathing creature and has a
life-cycle just as we do.  They begin young and fresh,
age a bit to have a rind and a mild somewhat moist or
elastic paste, then they begin to get a thicker rind
and a dryer paste, and if you can stand to wait for a
year or longer the paste will become grainy and more
and more dried out.  Parmesan is aged for a minimum of
two years before it is released by the affineur
(cheese ager).

Eibhlin


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Actually, anytime you add a culture to a cheese it
starts the fermentation process, as the enzymes begin
to transform the liquid milk into a solid mass.  That
would include cottage cheese, quark, and neufchatel.
If you consider that fresh cheese is only curds that
have been separated from the whey without any form of
fermentation, that pretty much limits it to straight
curds precipitated out of the whey using a form of
acid.

Eibhlin
West Kingdom Cheesemaker's Guild


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:51:58 -0500
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?

It's worth noting that you can buy stuff called "fresh cheese" in
Spanish in some grocery stores--Quesa Fresca I think (but I don't
know Spanish). You can also get something similar in Middle Eastern
grocery stores. My guess is that that's closer than ricotta. But a
cheese expert I'm not.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:28:48 -0700
From: "Patricia Collum" <pjc2 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The Queso Fresca I have used is a very fine curd, mild flavored fresh cheese
more similar in texture to the cheese we made fresh with lemon juice and
whole milk on the stove top, without the lemony flavor. 

Cecily (in Atenveldt)
----- Original Message -----
From: "david friedman" <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

> It's worth noting that you can buy stuff called "fresh cheese" in
> Spanish in some grocery stores--Quesa Fresca I think (but I don't
> know Spanish). You can also get something similar in Middle Eastern
> grocery stores. My guess is that that's closer than ricotta. But a
> cheese expert I'm not.
> --
> David/Cariadoc


Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:23:13 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

"Cream cheese" is a soft, fresh cheese usually made, I think (can't find
the cheese cookbook to verify) with a rennet. And it's probably got the
highest fat content of the three--ISTR a number of different variations
in my cheese book that had varying milk/cream ratios.

"Ricotta" is made from the whey that's left over after you make cheese.
I think it has to be done with fresh whey, as well.  Most recipes I've
seen have you add some milk to the whey, to increase output.  One heats
the fresh whey to a certain temperature and (I think) adds an acid
(vinegar?), which precipitates the little ricotta curds.

The third cheese is NOT made with either a whey or a rennet, but with
milk (usually whole) and lemon juice.  I think my book refers to it as a
"bag cheese," because it's one of the ones you hang up in a bag of
cheesecloth to let the extra whey drip out.  It's a fairly soft, fresh
cheese as well.

I can always taste the lemon juice, so I don't normally make it,
although it might be really nice in cheesecake.  I like to make bag
cheese using whole milk and vinegar....
As far as the browning goes in Katira's post, I'm assuming that she made
the same dish 3 times, each with a different cheese, and that it was the
dish that was browned.

--maire

"Harris Mark.S-rsve60" wrote:
> Katira commented:
>>>>
> I once made an entry for a 'Spoon' (cooking) contest
> that called for fresh cheese.  I made three versions
> and submitted them all for the judges to taste.  Cream
> cheese, ricotta cheese and my own fresh cheese (milk
> and lemon juice).
> <<<
> Okay, even with the recent discussion I'm a bit confused about the 
> differences between these three types of cheese. Can someone summarize 
> these? The ricotta uses the whey and rennet? The cream cheese uses 
> cream and rennet? And the other uses milk (regular? reduced fat? and 
> lemon juice?
>
>>>>
> I couldn't tell the difference myself except a vague
> difference in the coloring of the browned tops, yet
> each judge favored a different one!
> <<<
>
> "Browned tops"? Were these baked? Or does the cheese get browned just 
> sitting there?
>
>   Stefan


Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:56:10 -0700
From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: ricotta as "fresh cheese"?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have found a *ton* of recipes for cheese tarts,
both sweet and savory . . . One of my favorites
is Lese Fryes . . . Here's the recipe:

> Lese Fryes
  Take fresh cheese, and pare it clene, and grinde
hit in a morter small . . .

> My redaction:
> 16 oz. Ricotta . . .

      Huh!  I redacted Sabina Welserin's "Genovese
Tart" recipe last 12th Night -- a savory tart with
spinach, "fresh cheese" (I used ricotta), aged
cheese (I used parmesan), and olive oil in a pastry
crust.  It was very yummy, and got a good response
from everyone who tried it, but our local
cheesemaking expert really gave me a chewing out for
using ricotta, since it turns out ricotta is a whey
product and not actually a cheese at all (or so he
told me, and I respect his knowledge of the
subject).  He did admit the dish was tasty as
redacted, but we worked out that I should try some
cream cheese or cottage cheese "drip strained" (like
you do with yogurt for yogurt "cheese") and blended
for my next attempt, so I would not offend the
cheese-knowledgeable in the audience.  It was
actually a very fun discussion . . . :)  But:

      I'm curious to get responses from this group --
how appropriate is ricotta as a "fresh cheese"
substitute in redactions, in your opinion?  Thought
I might hear from some more cheese-knowledgeable
folks than myself.  After all, blessed are the
cheesemakers.  ;)  :)

               -- Ruth

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:54:27 -0700
From: Sheila McClune <smcclune at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Melca
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Patrick Levesque <patrick.levesque at elf.mcgill.ca>
> Notes : Melcas : with pepper and liquamen, or salt, oil and coriander,
> Melcas is, as far as I can tell, some form of curdled milk (or milk curdled
> with vinegar). It may have been similar to buttermilk, but I need to
> research this topic a bit more. For convenience¹s sake I¹ve used instead
> cottage cheese, mixed with the appropriate ingredients.
>
> This is a redaction that does not satisfy me properly (mostly
> because it is still unclear to me what melcas is exactly). However I have
> decided to include it in the feast i order to have a different kind of
> spread than the usual honey butter.

Well, I've done melca, and here's the recipe I've used:

Melca [Fresh Cheese (Curds)]

"The best method for making what are known as curds is to pour sharp
vinegar into new earhenware pots and then to put these pots on a slow
fire.  When the vinegar begins to boil, take it off the flame so it does
not bubble over and pour milk into the pots.  Place the pots in a store
or some other place where they will not be disturbed.  The next day you
will have curds that are much better than those made with a great deal
of fuss."
--Bassus, Country Matters .

From:
Grant, Mark.  Roman Cookery:  Ancient Recipes for Modern Kitchens.
Serif, London, 2000.  ISBN 1-897959-39-7.

My re-creation:

1 quart whole milk
1 cup heavy cream
1/4 cup + 1 tablespoon white wine vinegar
2 pinches salt (about 1/8 teaspoon)

In a saucepan over low heat, mix milk and cream and heat to just over
body temperature (105-110 degrees F).  Set aside.  In a heavy sauce pan, heat vinegar to boiling.  Remove vinegar from heat and pour the milk
into the vinegar pan.  Let stand just until curds form (this should
happen almost right away - if not, try stirring gently).  Line a
colander with heavy cheesecloth  and strain the mixture through this.
Tie up the four corners of the cloth and let hang for 2-4 hours to drain
off the whey.  Transfer cheese to serving dish and stir in salt.  Makes
1 1/4 cup.

Additional notes:  This recipe also works well with goat milk, but the
curds form will be very fine (about the size of grains of salt), so
you will need very fine cloth to strain the cheese.  I used a linen
napkin.

Balsamic vinegar is too strongly flavored for this recipe.  It will make
an extremely sour cheese.

If possible, use a ceramic- or enamel-coated pan to make the cheese.
Otherwise, the acid will leach metal into the cheese and spoil the
flavor.  If you don't have a ceramic- or enamel-coated pan, then remove
the cheese from the pan as quickly as possible.


Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 07:16:18 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Junket
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Ariane Helou:
> It sounds a little like cottage cheese to me.

Junket is softer, and less distinctively curdy, than cottage cheese.
More like milk-based Jello or the softest varieties of Japanese tofu
in consistency. The primary difference is that junket is made to be
eaten in less than, say, 12 hours after adding the rennet, and so
drainage isn't really encouraged in any extreme way. So, the curds
are left to drain, but are otherwise left pretty much undisturbed,
and it doesn't really have a lot of little, broken curds. Ideally,
it's one big, soft curd.

>  I'm not sure what "put it between reeds" means -- pressing it, I
> suppose?  Which would mean it's much more solid than cottage cheese
> -- maybe more like farmer's cheese or something.  The alternate 
> instructions to put it in cold water make me think that the curds
> can either be pressed and served later, or kept cool and served
> fresh the same day.

Junket, it has been alleged by some, is named for the woven
broomflower (jonquil) stem basket traditionally associated with
draining the stuff. Putting it between reeds suggests, to me, that it
goes on top of a row or mat of reeds laid out to allow drainage, then
covered with more reeds to protect it from drying, bugs and dust. I
don't think it's pressed, except perhaps by gravity. The instruction
to put it in cold water suggests that the goal is to keep it firm,
but also moist, and above all, to keep it from souring.

> Since the meal I'm planning this for is at a camping event, I'd need
> to make the junket anywhere from a week to a day in advance, so the
> pressed version seems more appropriate.  On the other hand, if it's
> going to be very time-consuming or difficult, perhaps I ought to
> just buy more cheeses and devote my energies to the more substantial
> and central parts of the meal... which brings me back to the
> question of what a finished junket looks like, anyway. :-)

I'd try making a batch, maybe according to a modern recipe (you can
even buy commercial junket tablets, which supply a weaker form of
rennet than that used for cheeses), just to become familiar with the
process before you decide what to do in the end. Me, I'd just make it
at the event, in the morning, and serve it in the evening.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Junket
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Junket is what you get when you turn milk into curds.
It is a really soft, moist curd and is set at a lower
temperature and is kept pretty much intact.  A general
rule of thumb is the higher the heat and smaller the
curd the harder it is.  Brie, a very soft cheese,
keeps the curd in large uncut slices, Parmesean, a
very hard cheese, cuts them to about corn kernel size.

In some grocery stores you can find "junket tablets"
which are just a weaker form of rennet.  They're
usually somewhere around the canning supplies.

The reed mats were used for drainage to dry the curd
out enough to handle for serving.  My recommendation
is to use a couple of sushi mats with a layer of
cheesecloth (the real stuff), linen or muslin between
the junket and the mat.  This is a *really* fresh
cheese and won't last more than a couple of days.  As
Adamantius said I'd make this the morning of the event
for an evening serving.  

Eibhlin


Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:05:15 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Junket
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I did junket of sorts for my desserts for the Ladies of the Rose
in June 2002. I based mine on "A Summer Dishe"
--- This recipe is given by Peter Brears in his article on “Rare 
Conceits”which appears in the book Banquetting Stuffe.
The original appears in the Recipe Book that belonged to Margaret Savile.
  From my notes that I did at the time I wrote:

The success of this dish lies in keeping it cold and in using enough
rennet to set up the milk, cream or half & half .

<> I also noted-- under Commentary and Important Notes— <>
All of these dishes (there was a cream, jelly, and the junket) require
that they be kept cold after making for best results. The jelly and the
summer dish did not really survive well the extended period of time
prior to being served. Had they been served at noon as I thought was the
schedule or approximately four hours from the time of being taken out of
the cold refrigerator, both would have represented the sorts of dishes
they were intended to be. Neither survived the nearly 12 hours on just
blue ice in 85 degree heat on June 1st without some melting. Both at the
time of eventual serving at past 8 in the evening were more “sauce” than
set jelly or set junket. They tasted fine, but they were not exactly as
originally intended.

So-- depending on how hot it is, your junket may melt! I know mine did.

http://www.junketdesserts.com/ has a number of recipes and tips that
might also be of interest to you.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:15:04 +1200 (NZST)
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish recipe question.
To: "jenne at fiedlerfamily.net" <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>,	Cooks within
	the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Quoting Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>:
> ... I want to serve Food for Angels (sweetened curd cheese).

I think I've only had Food for Angels made with ricotta, but if you wanted to
make soft curd cheese, my recipe is at http://peerlesskitchen.livejournal.com/.

Adele d'M


Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:23:18 -0400
From: "Kerri Martinsen" <kerrimart at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] NOTT feast report (VERY long) (was fish)
To: grizly at mindspring.com, 	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Marscapone cheese:

-Take 16oz of 1/2 & 1/2 "cream".
-Heat over a double boiler to 165 degrees
-Add 1/4 tsp Tartar Acid (http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/tartaric_acid.html )
  - available here:
http://www.cheesesupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/335

-Continue to stir constantly until the cream thickens to "tapaoica" stage.
Do not heat cream over 175 degrees.  Remove from heat.
-Line a sieve with butter cheesecloth or 2 layers of a thin cloth.  Place
this in a bowl large enough to contain all 16 oz of liquid.
-Pour the cream into the cloth.  The cheese will separate from the whey in
the bowl.  Let the cheese sit in the whey overnight in the refrigerator
(cover the cheese lightly with the overhanging cloth.
-The next morning remove the cheese from the whey and let drip for an hour
or so.
-Stir to smooth out & serve.

I like to retain the whey until I have stirred the cheese.  Sometimes I feel
the need to add a bit of the whey back into it to loosen it up,  but YMMV.

Yield:  8-10 oz Marscapone cheese.

It took me 3 tries to get the right consistancy, but it isn't expensive to
try and it doesn't take a whole day of work either.

Vitha


Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:20:15 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] "Fresh" Cheese Question
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Greetings!  I'm messing around with a 15th-century "tart owte of lente"
recipe which calls for "nesshe" (fresh) cheese.  Robin, at Hampton Court,
said to use either Cheshire or Wensleydale cheese.  However, in looking
through the Florilegium, it would seem that these aren't "fresh" cheeses. 
Would you agree?  In one of Bear's old posts he mentions using "farmer's
cheese" for fresh cheese, and others suggest that if that isn't available,
to drain cottage cheese as an approximation.  I also saw that someone
suggested using fresh mozzarella for "fresh cheese" in a recipe.  So... if
I wanted to try another version of the "tart owte of lente", what would you
think about using a) fresh mozzarella; b) farmer's cheese (if available);
c) drained cottage cheese?  Has anyone made a baked cheese tart using any
of these?

I've made the tart three ways so far, using Cheshire, Wensleydale and
Double Gloucester.  All are darned expensive.  I thought I might try Colby
(which isn't period, but which is cheaper) because it's a little "crumbly"
which is what someone suggested.  Any comments before I head back out to
the grocery store??  Thanks!

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:31:57 EDT
From: Etain1263 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Fresh" Cheese Question
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

In a message dated 6/2/2008 1:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
alysk at ix.netcom.com writes:
<<< what  would you
think about using a) fresh mozzarella; b) farmer's cheese (if  available);
c) drained cottage cheese? >>>

I just read an article on making mozzarella..and it's basically taking the  
curds of freshly made rennet cheese, heating it up and pulling it like taffy  
until it all melds together.  then you can braid, roll, whatever shape you  
wish.  So...cottage cheese and farmer cheeses are basically fresh curd,  drained 
and mixed with cream (cottage) or pressed into a container "as is"  
(farmer's).    
  The least processed (meaning additives) would be farmer  cheese.  The most: 
cottage.   Mozzarella is inbetween..no  additives, but more handling.  

Etain


Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doc <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Fresh" Cheese Question
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

A related sidenote:  "nesshe" (or "nesche") here is
probably not a transcription/copy error for "fresh",
but is most likely spelled as intended.  "Nesche" is
the Middle-English word for "soft", so the recipe as
written is calling for a soft cheese.

If I were making such a recipe and feeling lazy, I'd
probably use mozzarella.  However, I would also be
curious how it would turn out using freshly-made
cheese.

- Doc


Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:00:41 -0700
From: Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Fresh" Cheese Question
To: edoard at medievalcookery.com,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Doc wrote:
A related sidenote:  "nesshe" (or "nesche") here is
probably not a transcription/copy error for "fresh",
but is most likely spelled as intended.  "Nesche" is
the Middle-English word for "soft", so the recipe as
written is calling for a soft cheese.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

With the exception of some of the ripened cheese such as Brie and 
similar ones, a "soft" cheese is also usually a fresh cheese. So I 
don't think that the use of fresh in place of "nesche" is necessarily 
wrong. I think they could be considered synonymous in this usage.

Dragon


Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:21:44 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Fresh" Cheese Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

And to muddy the waters even further there is another of these recipes.
The "Auther Tartus" is indexed in the Concordance as another Tart out of 
Lente.
It's in Harl. 4016

Auter Tartus. ? Take faire ness? chese that is buttry, and par hit, 
grynde hit in a morter; caste therto faire creme and grinde hit togidre; 
temper hit with goode mylke, that hit be no thikker ?en? rawe creme, and 
cast thereto a litul salt if nede be; And thi chese be salte, caste 
thereto neuer a dele; colour hit wit? saffron?; then? make a large coffyn? 
of faire paste, & lete the brinkes be rered more ?en? an enche of heg?; 
lete ?e coffyn? harden? in ?e oven?; ?en? take it oute, put gobettes of 
butter in the bothom? thereof, And caste the stuffe there-to, and caste 
peces of buttur there-vppon?, and sette in ?e oven? wit?-oute lydde, and 
lete bake ynowe, and then? cast sugur thereon?, and serue it fort?. And if 
?ou wilt, lete him haue a lydde; but ?en? thi stuff most be as thikke as 
Mortrewes.

Johnnae

Doc wrote:
I believe this is the one that Her Excellency is
referring to:

For tarts owte of lente. Take neshe chese and pare hit
and grynd hit yn A morter and breke egges and do ther
to and then put yn buttur and creme and mell all well
to gethur put not to moche butter ther yn if the chese
be fatte make A coffyn of dowe and close hit a bove
with dowe and collor hit a bove with the yolkes of
eggs and bake hit well and serue hit furth.
[Gentyll manly Cokere (MS Pepys 1047)]

Yes?

If so, then I see something else interesting.  "Take
neshe chese and pare hit ..."  If this recipe were
calling for something like ricotta or freshly-made
cheese then pareing it (removing any rind, mold, dry
part, etc) wouldn't make much sense.


Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:43:15 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greek yogurt RE: cream cheese

If you let a batch of yogurt, American or otherwise, drain in a strainer for
a couple of hours, you actually get yogurt cheese or labneh.  But I have
done this with American yogurt and Greek yogurt (both cow's milk) and goats'
milk yogurt.  I personally love the goats milk version the best...it's a
little tangier.

Kiri (who's also fond of goats' milk butter!)


Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:56:38 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Labneh as a substitute for "cream cheese"

Adelisa wrote:
<<< The talk about cream cheeses made me go look up the ingredients for 
the package of Ulker brand labneh (Turkish yogurt cheese) I have in 
the refrigerator now:
Pasteurized whole milk, milk fat, starter, salt. >>>

I don't doubt that modern Turks use it, or at least sell it in their 
shops in the US, but labneh isn't Turkish, its originated in the 
Arabic speaking world, after all, its name is Arabic. It is common in 
the Levant.

<<< I took a package of this yesterday and mixed it with garlic pepper, 
dried dill, and vegetable flakes into a dip for a party; the 
texture, dare I say it, is virtually identical to good old 
Philadelphia cream cheese, and the flavor is fresher and better; not 
quite the tang of plain sour cream or yogurt, but close. >>>

Second, as something of an aficionado of labneh, i wouldn't say it is 
virtually identical to Philly brand; nay, I'd say it is far, far 
superior to that nasty stuff.

Labneh is generally drained yogurt.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:49:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period pasta sauce

On Dec 13, 2009, at 1:21 PM, I wrote:
<<< The "fresh cheeses dripping with butter and milk on all sides," what kind of cheese do you think he was referring to? It certainly doesn't sound like Parmesan. Taking a look at the Florilegium and the cheese entries there, could Landi have been referring to a mascarpone? >>>

Adamantius replied: 
<<< I would think it's something in a cohesive mass, but barely. Buffalo-milk mozzarella? >>>

Actually, I think I have solved the mystery of what this fresh, dripping-with-milk-and-butter Sicilian cheese could be - fresh tuma (I understand it was originally made from sheep's milk, but it's more often made with cows milk today). Aged tuma is eaten as a table cheese, but the very fresh, just barely out of the mold (12 hours) stuff would be very similar to fresh mozzarella or a firm ricotta in texture, and it's weepy.

Here is Saputo of Canada's version of it:
http://www.saputo.ca/client/en/cons/Fromages/parlons.asp?id=119&cat=1

There's a gourmet cheese store in South Philadelphia that sells a version of aged tuma, "Tuma Persa" ("Lost Tuma," so called because the producer of the cheese discovered a 100-year-old recipe for the cheese in a closet in his new home outside of Palermo, and recognized that this recipe had been lost). I should ask them if they have fresh tuma. 

I found mention of a modern-day pastry from the Madonie Mountains of Sicily; they are stuffed with fresh tuma and flavored with chocolate and cinnamon. I guess they're using it similar to ricotta in cannoli.

So, if I were recreating the dish of pasta as described by Landi for a feast, I'd use a combination of very fresh mozzarella and ricotta, tossed with the hot pasta and then sprinkled with the cinnamon and sugar; I am betting that tuma would be so expensive it would be priced out of just about every feast budget.

Adelisa


Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:34:14 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Question about farmer's cheese

On Dec 23, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Jennifer Carlson wrote:
<<< There are two different styles of cheese labelled "Farmer's Cheese" that show up at my supermarket.  One is a firm cheese, with a consistency like Monterey Jack, but with a milder flavor, and is available year-round.  The other, which only shows up a couple of times a year, is packaged like Philadelphia style cheese, and has a consistency between that of cream cheese and drained ricotta.

My question is: when a recipe calls for farmer's cheese, which type should I use? >>>

The hard-type cheese you're referring to is, in my experience, more often referred to as "farmhouse", rather than "farmer's". It's similar to white Cheddar in some ways.

Farmer's Cheese (again, in my experience, and YMMV) is more often referring to the compressed curd block in a small brick like Philadelphia Cream Cheese.

The confusion may reflect regional differences in practice, a labeling error on the part of the manufacturer, distributor or store, or any of several other possibilities. Usually the recipe will give you an instruction that should enable you to tell which one is meant. If it is grated, sliced, or melted, it's probably the hard white cheese. If mashed or pureed, probably the little package of white curd cheese.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:11:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Question about farmer's cheese

It's a regional thing.

In MN, WI, and Chicago, "farmer's cheese" is the solid white mild stuff 
and there is really no such thing as pot cheese or hoop cheese. Confused 
the hell out of me when I would read recipes in cookbooks calling for a 
farmer's cheese that was obviously *not* referring to the firmer stuff.

Margaret FitzWilliam


Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:43:03 -0400
From: Kate Wood <malkin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quark?

<<< Okay, I'm a bit confused. What is this 'quark'? Is it a fresh cheese? Is it
a sour cream? Is it a different fermented milk product? I doubt it is a
sub-atomic particle.

Stefan >>>

Quark is a fresh cheese, it tastes a lot like fromage frais (the
version not intended for consumption by children) or yogurt cheese but
a bit tangier. You can add fruit to it, like yogurt, or use it like
you would creme fraiche or sour cream, or you can make tarts with it.
I have used it in sambocade, it's nice. (I think it's from Poland).

Kate


Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:28:06 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quark?

Quark is German for "curd, curds" and thus covers a wide range of fresh 
cheeses.  Quarkka:se means fresh or cream cheese.

Bear 


Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:47:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Almond Milk Cheese Redux

<<< I found the information that Bear posted quite helpful - that quark means
curds - so perhaps the way to translate this recipe for "mandel zu:ger" is
almond curd rather than almond cheese?   It took a while to find the
glossary references to the medieval zuger/zyger/ziger meaning quark so I
thought it meant something similar to the modern.  Well, as we all know,
that assumption can be a mistake!  However, it seems clear from the recipe
that this is a simple fresh cheese such as quark still is.  What a great
onomatopoetic word for the sound of a squeeking cheese curd :)

Katherine >>>

The modern spelling is Zieger(ka:se) meaning "soft, milk, or cream cheese." 
A reference in Cassell's places ziger as Swiss dialect, and Zieger as 
dialect, so it is likely that this pops up in works written in Southern 
Germany and Switzerland.  As a possibly bad guess, the word may originally 
refer to goat's (die Ziege) milk cheese.

Bear 


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:14:45 +0200
From: "Susanne Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] quark?

Quark or Topfen (as it is called in Austria) tasets very simmilar to cream 
cheese. It has also a very simmilar texture, except for the so called 
Bro:seltopfen wich has a lot less water than normal Topfen (full fat or low 
fat).
According to the Canadian page I found, both are made in a simmilar fashion. 
I did substitute creamcheese and topfen in various recipes both ways with 
success.

Here's the wiki link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(cheese)

and I found a canadian page that has detailed information:
http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/sectionf.htm#freshcheese

"cited from web page:

Fresh cheese:
There are four principal types of acid coagulated fresh cheese: Cottage 
cheese (North American), Quark types such as Baker's cheese (European), 
Cream cheese, and heat-acid precipitated types including Paneer (India) and 
traditional Queso Blanco (Latin American). With some qualifications it can 
be said that these types are all made by acid coagulation of caseins rather 
than rennet coagulation. The qualifications are that small amounts of rennet 
are used to improve the texture of cottage cheese, and both Queso Blanco and 
Paneer manufacture employ the principle of heat-acid precipitation which 
includes whey proteins in the casein coagulum. Cottage cheese, quark and 
cream cheese are normally acidified by lactic fermentation while Paneer and 
traditional Queso Blanco are acidified by the addition of organic acids to 
hot milk. In modern commercial manufacture most Latin American white cheese 
is coagulated with rennet (with no culture addition) and consumed fresh.

What follows are VERY detailed recipes for industrial production"

Regards Katharina
From a very rainy Vienna


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:02:05 -0700
From: K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quark?

A local cheesemaker sells it at our farmer's market.  Plain, garlic, vanilla and the most incredible lemon (Meyers)!  Like but not as smooth as cream cheese.  I smear the lemon quark on fresh strawberries.....yum!  

And I've always had giggle over the name too.

Katira


Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 16:14:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Creamy recipes from Rontzier

I love creamy desserts!  I am thinking what I could possibly bring to 16th
century day at An Tir West War, and since I am dessert oriented, I've been
looking all around my source material.

I thought others might be interested in these two, especially as the first
is a period recipe for cream cheese.   

<snip>

I've transcribed the German without the diacritical marks for the digest
folk (double ss, ue etc.)  Does anyone know what rc. means as an
abbreviation in German?

These are from Rontzier's "Kunstbuch von Mancherley Essen" dated 1598

Von Flot Kesen
Man thut Laue in Flot das es ruenne /
gibts darnach in Formen oder durchschlege das die
Waddecke dadurch lauffe / gibts darnach in ein Sil-
ber / und frisch Flot darueber / wescht Erd: oder hei-
delbirn in Wein auss und gibt sie auch darueber / etc.

About Cream Cheese
One adds rennet in cream so it curdles /
give it next in a form or sieve that the
whey there-through runs / give it forth in a sil-
ver [dish] / and fresh cream there over / wash straw- or
bilberries [huckleberries] out in wine and place them over the top / etc.

<snip. See desserts-msg file>

Katherine
Who is sending fair warning that she is in evil dessert mode.


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:30:51 -0800
From: freyja <freyja7777 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mascarpone

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
Kitta declared:
<<< If you want to know how to make mascarpone, let me know... >>>

The answer is yes, please.

Is mascarpone a "fresh cheese" like cream cheese? Does it have sugar added?

Stefan
===================

Stefan-

No sugar added until later if you want for your usage of the
mascarpone (or honey, or whatever).

I would think this is a "fresh cheese".  I call it "Italian cream cheese".

Happy Cooking!!

-Kitta
==============
Mascarpone

Recipe Source: Giuliano Bugialli's Classic Techniques of Italian
Cooking by Giuliano Bugialli (Fireside)
Reprinted with permission.

Make your own fresh and creamy mascarpone cheese at home the Italian
way. Plan ahead as this recipe will need refrigeration at least 12
hours before using. Use within 1 week.

Prep Time: 10 minutes
Cook Time: 5 minutes

Ingredients:

   * 1 quart heavy cream
   * 1/4 teaspoon tartaric acid

Preparation:

See notes below about ingredients.

Pour cream into a Pyrex saucepan and fit over another pot, creating a
bagnomaria (double boiler/bain marie). Bring the cream to a
temperature of 180 degrees F. and remove from the heat. Stir with a
wooden spoon for 30 seconds and then remove the Pyrex from the
bagnomaria and keep stirring for 2 minutes more. Add the tartaric
acid.

Line a basket with HEAVY cheesecloth and pour in the cream. Let the
mascarpone stand for 12 hours in cool place or the lower level of your
refrigerator.

Cut four 9-inch squares of heavy cheesecloth. Open one on the table.

With a large spoon, transfer 1/4 of the mascarpone to the center of
the square. Fold one side on top and then fold over the other side,
then fold over both ends. Put the package of mascarpone, folded side
down, on a serving dish. Prepare the remaining 3 squares in the same
way. Refrigerate for at least 12 hours before using. Use within one
week.

Notes:
The heavy cream should be pasteurized, but not "ultra-pasteurized."
Ultra-pasteurized has "off" taste to it and can ruin a lot of dishes.
The pasteurized can be found in health food stores, along with the
tartaric acid.


Kitta's notes:
I have purchased the tartaric acid at wine-making supply shops.

Do NOT cover the bowl with plastic wrap.  You want the cream to
evaporate and not form condensation!!

I've never used any cheese cloth.  I just used a stainless bowl for
the top of the bain marie and put the cream/tartaric acid mixture
right in the refrigerator in the bowl after heating/whisking.  Usually
the next day the mascarpone was ready for my tiramisu!!


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:20:04 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cream cheese?

Toussaint-Samat dates cream cheese to classical times.

The drained cream cheese called turos by the ancient Greeks, and tiri  
by their modern descendants, ... The Romans also ate cream cheese  
prepared in the Greek fashion: hypotrima, to which dried fruits and  
wine of the aperitif type were added.

Johnnae


Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 09:11:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quark

--- Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> schrieb am Sa, 6.8.2011:
Liutgard inquired:
<<< How about quark? Anyone here worked with it? There is apparently a
possible mention of it in Tacitus, which has me rummaging through my
books to see if I have his stuff on the Germanic peoples..>>>.

Doing a search on the Florilegium finds a number of
mentions, although the one that seems to have a period
mention of it, is in this file:
fd-Germany-msg (152K) 9/20/10 Medieval and Period German
food. Cookbooks.

Part of the problem is determining what makes quark
different from any other cream cheese, other than the name.
----------

Not a lot, really. Quark is made from (usually skimmed) milk, curdled with rennet at room temperature, lightly drained, then passed through a fine sieve to produce an even consistency. Commercially produced varieties have their fat content standardized by adding cream (anywhere between the lowest German standard type of 10% and the highest Swiss type at 55% fat in dried form is possible). Artisanal quark is not normalized, and its fat content depends on the milk used. The typical DIY-guides for Quark I've found all suggest using buttermilk to introduce the curdling agent, so I suppose it really doesn't matter that much. 

AFAIK most cream cheeses have higher fat contents and less moisture than quark. Quark is pretty moist, almost semi-liquid, and does not hold together at all. That's about it. 

BTB, the Tacitus reference is to lac concretum, supposedly the same thing elsewhere referred to as melca. We do not know the curdling agent, but I would suppose rennet, being rather more difficult to obtain than lactic acid bacteria or plant juices, would not have been used all the time. A fifteenth-century reference to Herbstmilch, a curdled milk that can be stored in cool rooms for a long time, only mentions introducing an already curdled starter. That suggests lactic acid bacteria. Though my Latin is limited, I guess 'lac concretum' also fits this better.

Giano


Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 12:00:29 +0200
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cream cheese?

Another variation of the ricotta topic, the Swiss Serac cheese
http://www.theramblingepicure.com/archives/10666

Ana


Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 22:09:46 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fresh Cheese was Little Black Zambo

<<< I shall stop here to prepare a second message in an attempt to get to the 
root of the matter  - what is queso fresco/fresh cheese and how can we 
deal with it properly when attempting to recreate medieval recipes?

Suey >>>

Fresh cheese is a general term for cheese produced from cow, sheep or goat 
milk coagulated by adding rennet or an edible acid (lemon juice, vinegar, 
etc.).  The whey is drained and the curds are pressed to produce a soft, 
unripened white cheese.  Usually, I can find this in the grocery as farmer's 
cheese.

Cream cheese is a form of fresh cheese made from unseperated milk spiked 
with additional cream.  The term shows up in English about 1583.

There is probably a better definition in the Oxford Companion to Food, but 
it isn't to hand at the minute.

Bear


Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:38:43 -0700
From: K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fresh Cheese and other ingredients

Years ago I entered a cooking contest and selected a recipe that called for cheese.  I tried three different cheeses and documented the results.  And as noted, I also submitted the three versions for the judges to taste.  In this recipe at least, the different cheeses didn't have a significant impact on the end result.   I use the milk/lemon juice cheese for any medieval recipe calling for a fresh cheese and have had good results.

Katira

==========
Wooden Spoon
Beltane Coronation
A.S. XXXVII
Kay the Innocent of BelAnjou (now known as Katira al-Maghrebiyya)
Category: An Italian dish

Tartara alla senese

Primary Source: New York, Pierpont Morgan Library, MS Buhler 19: unpublished manuscript. In The Medieval Kitchen, Recipes from France and Italy, the authors state: "Scholars think it is of Neapolitan origin. It contains many recipes similar to those in Maestro Martino's Libro de arte coquinaria....we think that this anonymous manuscript postdates Martino's work." Neither manuscripts is dated in The Medieval Kitchen, but the volume is limited to fourteenth and fifteenth century sources.

Original Recipe: Tartara alla senese 
Piglia vinti amandole e falle ben bianche he pistale quanto se po. Da poi habi meza libra de zucaro, XII ova he una fogletta di late he doi quantani de canella he sale asufficientia he mezo quarto de probatura fresca tanto pistata che piu non bisogna pistarla. Dapoi inbrata una tiela de butiro he poi infarinala he desopra gli ponerai la dita compositione, Et pone la tiella sive padella lontano dal foco, coperta, cum foco moderato. Et nota che in le predita compostione ci potrai ponere uno ramaiolo de lasagne cote in buno brodo. He como sia cotto pone desopra zucaro he aqua rosata. (49v-50)

Translation Source: Odile Redon, Francoise Sabban, & Silvano Serventi, The Medieval Kitchen, Recipes from France and Italy, The University of Chicago Press, 1998.

Translation: Sienese tart.

Take twenty almonds and blanch them thoroughly, and pound them as fine as possible. Then take half a libra of sugar, twelve eggs, and a fogletta [about a cup] of milk, two quatani of cinnamon, and the proper amount of salt, and half a quarto of fresh provatura cheese, pounded until it need be pounded no more. Then spread a mold with butter, and then flour it. and put the mixture on top. And set the mold or pan far from the fire, covered, with a moderate fire. And note that you can put into the mixture a ladleful of lasagne cooked in good broth. And when it is cooked, put sugar and rose water on top.

Translation Notes: I attempted a translation using a French/English dictionary.
It wasn?t pretty. In The Medieval Kitchen, the authors discuss conversion of weight and volume measures and state that this is not possible unless you know their precise source. The names might be the same in various recipes, but quantities were not always the same. Therefore, they left them untranslated with the exception of fogletta. Therefore I made educated guesses for the others and tested them out.

Process Notes:

Starting with a guess that a libra is a pound and that a half pound of sugar equals about 1 cup + 3 T, I chose 1/2 cup sugar plus 1 T.

The authors note that provatura cheese is currently found in southern Italy and is like mozzarella, a pulled curd but one cannot assume that it is the same as the period cheese of the same name. They substituted cream cheese in this recipe, but used a "mild, reasonably soft white such as a very young French or Swiss tomme, or farmer's cheese or mozzarella" in another recipe from the same source that called for provatura. I chose to make a simple fresh cheese from milk and lemon juice, pressing until firm.

Note: I actually made 3 versions of the recipe while testing it out. One with cottage cheese, one with cream cheese and one with my own fresh cheese. This was the most disappointing result I had ever had when preparing an entry. I just wasn?t impressed with it, but I included all three versions in my entry just for fun. The only difference I could see was a slight variation in the color after cooking and the texture/taste was almost identical, yet each judge had a favorite! When I went to pick up my entry, I found the plate empty of all but a few crumbs, a couple of the whole almonds I had used to decorate it, and some very satisfied judges. I found out later in court that my most disappointing entry had won!  		 	   		

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	fresh-cheeses-msg	33 of 33