cheese-goo-msg

cheese-goo-msg - 10/31/06

Digby's Savory Tosted Cheese recipe and variations. Similar melted cheese/fondue recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: cheese-msg, dairy-prod-msg, Cheese-Making-art, cheesemaking-msg, cheesecake-msg, sauces-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Subject: Re: recipe needed, take 2

Organization: University of Chicago

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 04:50:02 GMT

"There is a lovely cheese and herb dish which is good on bread. Perhaps this

would serve. Unfortunately, I do not have the recipe myself, though Elaine

Courtney would. It's from one of the common Arabic sources. You might try

looking in some of the Arabic sources for other similiar dishes."

(Caterina Sichling)

Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?

Zabarbada of Fresh Cheese

Andalusian p. A-13

Take fresh cheese, clean it, cut it up and crumble it; take fresh

coriander and onion, chop and throw over the cheese, stir and add

spices and pepper, shake the pot with two tablespoons of oil and

another of water and salt, then throw this mixture in the pot and put

on the fire and cook; when it is cooked, take the pot from the fire

and thicken with egg and some flour and serve.

8 oz farmer's cheese

1 t cumin

1 T water

1 c loosely packed chopped green coriander = 1 oz

1 t cinnamon

1/2 t salt

2 onions = 6 oz

1/2 t pepper

1 egg

1 t ground coriander seed

2 T oil

2-3 T flour

Mix together cheese, green coriander, onion, and spices. Put oil,

water and salt in a large frying pan or a dutch oven; shake to cover

the bottom. Put in the cheese mixture and cook on medium-high to high

about 3 minutes, stirring almost constantly, until the mixture

becomes a uniform goo. Remove from heat, stir in egg, sprinkle on

flour and stir in, serve forth. It ends up as a sort of thick dip,

good over bread. It is still good when cold.

We have also used cheddar, feta, mozzarella and ricotta; all came out

well, although with the feta it was a little salty, even with the

salt in the recipe omitted. Some cheeses will require more flour to

thicken it; the most we used was 1/2 cup.

(from the Miscellany)

David/Cariadoc

From: Dottie Elliott (10/4/95)

To: Mark Harris

All the recipes in his collection can be found on the World Wide Web at ::

http://fermi.clas.virginia.edu/~gl8f/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html

==> Savoury Tosted or Melted Cheese

[original recipe found in] Digby p. 228/177

Cut pieces of quick, fat, rich, well tasted cheese, (as the best of Brye,

Cheshire, &c. or sharp thick Cream-Cheese) into a dish of thick beaten

melted Butter, that hath served for Sparages or the like, or pease, or

other boiled Sallet, or ragout of meat, or gravy of Mutton: and, if you

will, Chop some of the Asparages among it, or slices of Gambon of Bacon, or

fresh-collops, or Onions, or Sibboulets, or Anchovis, and set all this to

melt upon a Chafing-dish of Coals, and stir all well together, to

Incorporate them; and when all is of an equal consistence, strew some gross

White-Pepper on it, and eat it with tosts or crusts of White-bread. You may

scorch it at the top with a hot Fire-Shovel.

[redaction by David Friedman and Elizabeth Cook]

1/2 lb butter

1/2 lb cream cheese

1/8 lb Brie or other strongly flavored cheese

1/4 t white pepper

Melt the butter. Cut up the cheese and stir it into the butter over low

heat. You will probably want to use a whisk to blend the two together and

keep the sauce from separating (which it is very much inclined to do). When

you have a uniform, creamy sauce you are done. You may serve it over asparagus or other vegetables, or over toast; if you want to brown the top, put it under the broiling unit in your stove for a minute or so. Experiment with some of the

variations suggested in the original.

[Clarissa's Notes: I use brie cheese but I cut off the rine. Its easier to

do if the cheese is still cold. Medium heat or better is needed and you

must stir CONSTANTLY or it will stick and burn (and never meld too). Use a

whip to stir. A heavy pan like a cast iron dutch oven is a good idea. If

its mixed really well, it will not separate as much as if its just mixed a

little. This is a very rich sauce. I would say that this serves 8 people as

part of several removes as an appetizer or over vegetables . It serves 4 if

its the single main dish for dinner.]

Dottie Elliott macdj at onr.com

From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:33:32 -0400

Subject: Re: SC - cheese goo

Sue Wensel wrote:

> > Last Monday, April 21, Clarissa proclaimed:

> >

> > >... As for what I cook,

> > >certain dishes that are favorites have been requested and I oblige

> > >whenever possible.

> >

> > Yes, cheese goo. Oh wonderful cheese goo.

> >

> > Clarissa brought the recipe for cheese goo down with her from the

> > far off East Kingdom and has made quite a hit here with it.

> >

> > I think she will probably get tired of cooking it before the barony

> > gets tired of eating it. She has however made good progress in

> > teaching others how to make it. She even convinced my wife who is

> > even less of a cook than me to make it for Gulf Wars.

> >

> > Stefan li Rous

> >

> > (Cheese goo is the local name for Savory Toasted Cheese. I could

> > post the recipe or give Clarissa the honor since it is her recipe)

> Do you use brie or farmer's cheese? We have people around here that make both

> -- I think the farmer's cheese version is far superior!

> Derdriu

Digby (the source most people use when redacting this recipe, though he

certainly didn't invent toasted cheese) probably intended a young brie

or a firm cream cheese like York or slipcoat. I've gotten good results

with a mixture of cream cheese and mild white cheddar.

Adamantius

From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:55:46 -0400

Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - cheese goo

Sue Wensel wrote:

after a whole lotta blah blah by Adamantius

> Do we know when brie was developed? I know cheddaring is only about 200 years

> old; I still use it because people like it.

Digby specifically mentions Chesire or Brie in the original recipe. Brie

cheese clearly existed from, if I remember correctly, about 800 A.D.

However, we don't know how closely it resembled Brie as made today. And

yes, cheddaring is only about 200 years old, meaning that a process

which probably already existed began to be called after a village where

it began to be practiced industrially. Almost identical cheeses are and

were apparently made on a smaller scale, generally known as "farmhouse

cheeses", which are very different from what we know as farmer cheese. I

believe the reason behind specifying "fat" or cream cheese is that it

serves the same purpose as shortening in baked goods: it softens

proteins, which in the case of bread makes it more tender, and in the

case of cheese makes the curds more tender, eventually to the point

where they are indistinguishable from each other, producing a smooth

cheese.

Bottom line here is that I think Brie or white cheddar or cream cheese,

or some combination thereof, are probably closer to the original, but

farmer cheese still might taste better to some.

Adamantius

From: Dottie Elliott <macdj at onr.com>

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 17:19:31 -0500

Subject: Re: SC - cheese goo

Savoury Tosted or Melted Cheese

modern recipe from: A Miscellany by Cariadoc and Elizabeth

(http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/sauces.html#1)

original found in Digby p. 228/177

Cut pieces of quick, fat, rich, well tasted cheese, (as the best of Brye,

Cheshire, &c. or sharp thick Cream-Cheese) into a dish of thick beaten

melted Butter, that hath served for Sparages or the like, or pease, or other

boiled Sallet, or ragout of meat, or gravy of Mutton: and, if you will, Chop

some of the Asparages among it, or slices of Gambon of Bacon, or

fresh-collops, or Onions, or Sibboulets, or Anchovis, and set all this to

melt upon a Chafing-dish of Coals, and stir all well together, to

Incorporate them; and when all is of an equal consistence, strew some gross

White-Pepper on it, and eat it with tosts or crusts of White-bread. You may

scorch it at the top with a hot Fire-Shovel.

1/2 lb butter

1/2 lb cream cheese

1/8 lb Brie or other strongly flavored cheese

1/4 t white pepper

Melt the butter. Cut up the cheese and stir it into the butter over low

heat. You will probably want to use a whisk to blend the two together and

keep the sauce from separating (which it is very much inclined to do). When

you have a uniform, creamy sauce you are done. You may serve it over

asparagus or other vegetables, or over toast; if you want to brown the top,

put it under the broiling unit in your stove for a minute or so. Experiment

with some of the variations suggested in the original.

Clarissa's notes: I cut off the rind from the Brie. I find that using a

whisk to stir makes the cheeses and butters meld together faster (at

least it seems like it does). This is fairly thick and as such is good as

a dip for bread, etc. I also make it for asparagus by layering toast on

the bottom of the pan, asparagus (cooked) over the toast and then pouring

the cheese mixture over the top and bake until bubbly on top. I use more

butter when I make the cheese for this so it is thinner for pouring.

[Editors note: The following is a note from a different message about

this recipe]

[Clarissa's Notes: I use brie cheese but I cut off the rine. Its easier to

do if the cheese is still cold. Medium heat or better is needed and you

must stir CONSTANTLY or it will stick and burn (and never meld too). Use a

whip to stir. A heavy pan like a cast iron dutch oven is a good idea. If

its mixed really well, it will not separate as much as if its just mixed a

little. This is a very rich sauce. I would say that this serves 8 people as

part of several removes as an appetizer or over vegetables . It serves 4 if

its the single main dish for dinner.]

Clarissa

From: RobearB at aol.com

Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:28:23 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: SC - cheese goo

<< Well, someone please post it! I think that if it is that big of a hit I

would love the chance at the recipe and sharing it. >>

This version is quite popular in Atlantia, and very easy. I use the

three-two-one method. Which is......Three parts cream cheese, two parts

brie, and one part butter. I saute onions in the butter (very finely

chopped, almost minced), then I place them in a double boiler and add crem

cheese until all is incorporated (stir constantly). Add brie in pieces,

including rind, until it is incorporated as well. Prepare your favourite

vegetable, and make as dry as possible. Pour cheese over all and broil (if

possible) until bubbly golden brown. We've also served this with toast

points and roast pork with great success. There is rarely any left over.

Robear de Bardoulf,

Barony of Caer Mear,

Kingdom of Atlantia

Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:11:02 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other

>Kael asked:

...

>> and a spread of some sort

You might want to look at Zabarbada of fresh cheese (Miscellany).

- --

Zabarbada of Fresh Cheese

Andalusian p. A-13

Take fresh cheese, clean it, cut it up and crumble it; take fresh coriander

and onion, chop and throw over the cheese, stir and add spices and pepper,

shake the pot with two tablespoons of oil and another of water and salt,

then throw this mixture in the pot and put on the fire and cook; when it is

cooked, take the pot from the fire and thicken with egg and some flour and

serve.

8 oz farmer's cheese

1 t cumin

1 T water

1 c loosely packed chopped green coriander = 1 oz

1 t cinnamon

1/2 t salt

2 onions = 6 oz

1/2 t pepper

1 egg

1 t ground coriander seed

2 T oil

2-3 T flour

Mix together cheese, green coriander, onion, and spices. Put oil, water and

salt in a large frying pan or a dutch oven; shake to cover the bottom. Put

in the cheese mixture and cook on medium-high to high about 3 minutes,

stirring almost constantly, until the mixture becomes a uniform goo. Remove

from heat, stir in egg, sprinkle on flour and stir in, serve forth. It ends

up as a sort of thick dip, good over bread. It is still good when cold.

We have also used cheddar, feta, mozzarella and ricotta; all came out well,

although with the feta it was a little salty, even with the salt in the

recipe omitted. Some cheeses will require more flour to thicken it; the

most we used was 1/2 cup.

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:36:02 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - raclette

Robert Beaulieu wrote:

> Unto all gentle cooks Lord Robert de QuelQuePart sends greetings,

> Being from Latin decent rather than Saxon I do not know for sure that

> this dish is caled "raclette" in English (that is the french spelling);

> being from Swiss origin (I believe), or somewhere close, it consist,

> originally as it is now served in fancy setting in restaurants, of a

> block of cheese with one end facing toward and close, more or less, to

> the "pit" fire; in such a fashion that it melts (becomes smooth), in

> turn each and every one which has their heart for it, or the munchys, srape

> that end with a piece of bread...

> The question is ...(drums)... Is this dish period, if so can any one

> document it for me please?

In English we call that dish "toasted cheese", more or less. In the

French-speaking parts of Switzerland, the dish is called raclette

because, as I understand it, it is the name of the type of cheese

traditionally used for toasting in Switzerland. So, you go to the cheese

shop and buy a wheel or wedge of raclette, and you can either use it to

make sandwiches, or eat with bread and wine, or you could use it to

make...(drums)...raclette.

Honestly don't know how old the cheese variety is, but the concept of

toasting cheese and eating it with bread must date back to, at least,

the fifteenth or sixteenth century. I believe there are literary

references to Welsh dishes of toasted cheese being of superior quality

to their English equivalents. Just think: Owen Glendower may have died

to protect toasted cheese!

See C. Anne Wilson's "Food and Drink In Britain", for a start at

documenting toasted cheese in the British style, apparently developed

sometime during the latter half of our period. The basic dish involves

placing a slice of fat cheese (no, not a fat slice of cheese) on a clean

fire shovel or smooth board, such as are sometimes used for baking

flatbreads near a hearth. You prop up the board, or hold the shovel, on

an incline, facing the fire. When it is done, it will be brown and

bubbly, and will begin to slide down the shovel or board, on its little

built-in lubricating buffer of butterfat. The goal is for the browning,

and the sliding, to occur at more or less the same time, which will

ultimately be a function of experience in this fine art. Anyway, you pop

your slice of toasted cheese onto a slice of toasted bread, and chomp.

It appears that some heretics will spread mustard, as well as butter, on

their toast prior to the application of the cheese.

Some consider the ne plus ultra of the toasted cheese experience to be

Digby's recipe for Savoury Toasted Cheese, which is a sort of melted

cheese casserole, with added butter and the occasional bit of what my

son calls greenfood. Commonly known on this list as cheese goo.

Personally, I prefer the simpler Welsh method, which I believe Digby's

recipe to be a citified imitation of. By way of compromise, I'll say

that I have had excellent results in mass-producing a variant on the

Welsh method for feast use. I use large round loaves of bread, which I

slice horizontally into discs. These get toasted, buttered (sometimes

with a REALLY tiny amount of plain Coleman's-type mustard) and topped

with a smooth mixture of grated white Cheddar and some cream cheese,

whizzed up in a food processor. Digby recommends Cheshire or Brie, but

I've found that the mixture I mention can be quickly spread, before the

toast gets cold, and when melted, appears to be a perfectly homogeneous

cheese, rather than a mixture. Finish these in a broiler, at which point

they rather resemble pizzas, and if they are the right size, you can

send out one per table, cut into wedges.

This is good in cases where the Digby cheese goo, in combination with

other dishes, is just a bit too much. Of course, some claim that this

case could never arise, but still, there it is.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:43:14 -0600

From: Robert Beaulieu <robert.beaulieu at sympatico.ca>

Subject: Re: SC - raclette

> In English we call that dish "toasted cheese", more or less. In the

> French-speaking parts of Switzerland, the dish is called raclette

> because, as I understand it, it is the name of the type of cheese

> traditionally used for toasting in Switzerland.

> Adamantius

If I may correct you my Lord,

It is the other way around as far as the name goes...

The cheese was named after the use it was made for...

Let me explain the usage I describe in my letter dates back further

than the cheese now used for it, the dish is called "raclette" after the

action "racler", to scrape, witch is what one does with the bread peace

on the softened cheese.

Lord Robert de QuelquePart

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:06:03 -0800

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - fondue?

There's Digby's cheese, and my favorite from la Varenne (1651). La Varenne

is sauteeing onion/chives/shallots in butter, add cubed cheese, melt and

spread on bread. Stick it under the broiler till its all brown and bubbly.

Yum!

ok ok ok la Varenne isn't medieval. sheesh! :)

- --Anne-Marie

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:27:58 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Fondue

Robyn.Hodgkin at affa.gov.au wrote:

> Has anyone got any information on whether fondue are period?

> Kiriel

The oldest reference to fondue (cheese, I assume you mean) under that

name that I have seen and can document is in Jean-Anthelme

Brillat-Savarin's "Physiologie du Gout" [Anatomy of Taste], sometime in

the very early 19th century, maybe 1810 or so. His recipe is really for

cheese scrambled with eggs and wine until the cheese is melted and the

eggs slightly thickened, just creamy.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:44:39 -0500

From: "Nick Sasso" <Njs at mccalla.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Fondue

In my first parusal of The Medieval Kitchen I remember seeing an

Italian dish of some sort similar to Fondue served with Crostini of

wheat bread. I cannot, for the life of me find it again! It may have

been another book altogether. I do know that it was a melted cheese

dipping sauce with a toasted bread dipper served in small dishes

rather than a largish communal pot. I'll keep looking.

niccolo difrancesco

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:49:47 EST

From: Elysant at aol.com

Subject: SC - SC Melted Cheese

Lady Brighid wrote:

> (Snip) And it was there that I had my first acquaintance with Digby's

> savory toasted cheese. When I go to heaven, I know what will be on the

> table, right next to the manna.

M'Lady,

you wouldn't be Welsh would you? ;-)

There is an old saying the English have about us Welsh - that all there would

need to be in Heaven to keep us happy would be "Caws Pobi" (Toasted Cheese!).

;-)

BTW I looked up the "Savoury Tosted or Melted Cheese" recipe in Digby. The

recipe looks as if it would be really delicious and is, I think, quite

similar to the recipe for (Welsh) Rarebit (Rarebit additionally has milk and

beer in it, but no asparagus, onions or other things added).

Here's the recipe I have for the dish.

Welsh Rarebit / "Caws Pobi" (Toasted Cheese).

4 oz Grated Cheese

3 tablespoonfuls milk

1 oz butter

Pepper (white) and salt (mustard if desired)

Slices of Toasted bread

A little beer (if desired)

Place cheese and milk in saucepan and melt slowly. Add butter, salt and

pepper. When piping hot, pour over the toast and brown under the grill.

Elysant

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:39:02 EST

From: Elysant at aol.com

Subject: SC - Melted Cheese

>Sounds delicious. Do you know what kind of cheese would be most

>appropriate?

These days we tend to use Cheddar (the sharp kind is better). In the past I

would imagine they'd have used what ever cheese there was available that had

a similar bite. :-) (There's also a Welsh Cheese BTW - I don't know when it

was first made, but it's a tangy white semi-soft cheese called "Caerphilly"

(English spelling)).

Elysant

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:22:40 -0500 (EST)

From: Michael Macchione <Michael.Macchione at widener.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Marwick Arts Exhibition

Since I've seen requests for my Savory Toasted Cheese recipe, I will

post it here. As was stated by someone else, my recipe is a variation

on Cariadoc's, the original is in Digby.

Savory Toasted Cheese:

1 part Brie

2 parts Cream Cheese

2 parts Butter

heavy dash White Pepper

Melt all Dairy products together, stirring constantly (note: I usually

leave the wax on the Brie which is usually the last thing to melt). When

all melted add the White Pepper, stir and serve.

For the Dayboard, I boiled some asparagus to be served with the cheese

sauce, not imagining that the asparagus would disappear so quickly.

Kael

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:02:59 GMT

From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: SC - SC Melted Cheese

>Lady Brighid wrote:

> > (Snip) And it was there that I had my first acquaintance with Digby's

> > savory toasted cheese. When I go to heaven, I know what will be on the

> > table, right next to the manna.

The local version of this is very yummy, involving lots of brie, cream and

butter, but the original recipe says something like scraps of good cheese

are to be used and my impression was that bits and scraps from a mixture of

cheeses would be the thing. So, I want to experiment. Goal: a cheese sauce

not as expensive, and yet, not cheddar. Via two local shops I can do a lot

of experimenting just with English cheeses.

Bonne

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:31:23 -0500

From: "Richard Kappler II" <rkappler at home.com>

Subject: Re: SC - SC Melted Cheese

>The local version of this is very yummy, involving lots of brie, cream and

>butter, but the original recipe says something like scraps of good cheese

>are to be used and my impression was that bits and scraps from a mixture of

>cheeses would be the thing. So, I want to experiment. Goal: a cheese

sauce

>not as expensive, and yet, not cheddar. Via two local shops I can do a lot

>of experimenting just with English cheeses.

>Bonne

Go to the deli. When they get down to the ends of the large cheeses that

are sliced for sandwich stuff, they throw them in to a styrene tray, cover

it with plastic wrap, call it ends and sell it for about a dollar a pound.

At least they do in my market. If they don't in yours, ask them, cuz they

probably just throw the ends away. Same goes for the deli meats, BTW.

regards, Puck

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:12:26 -0700

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] clay fondue pot

hey from Anne-Marie

re: the original text for the la Varenne ramekins of cheese....the text is in

the CA I did, as well as the complete anachronist on French Food (basically we

reissued it without the constraints of the CA system).

here it is again....

Ramequins of Cheese [V#41, p221]

Take some cheese, melt it with some butter, an onion whole, or stamped, salt

and pepper in abundance, spread all upon bread, pass the fire shovel over it

red hot, and serve it warme.

"cheesy goodness" is now a fixture in my household....:)

--AM

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:19:25 -0400

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese sauce/fondue

Also sprach Diana Haven:

> Since all of my reference books are still in

>storage on the other side of the country, would anyone

>have references at hand for fondue or welsh rarebit in

>period?

Umm, how about Digby's Savoury Toasted or Melted Cheese? (~1669 C.E.)

The oldest reference to fondue I can think of is in Brillat-Savarin's

Physiologie du Gout, roughly Napoleonic Era (and even that is more

like stirred, creamy-style scrambled eggs with cheese, rather than

the modern fondue).

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:39:24 -0400

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question on Cheese Goo

Also sprach DragonTamer:

>From the Florilegium:

>[redaction by David Friedman and Elizabeth Cook]

>1/2 lb butter

>1/2 lb cream cheese

>1/8 lb Brie or other strongly flavored cheese

>1/4 t white pepper

>Melt the butter. Cut up the cheese and stir it into the butter over low

>heat. You will probably want to use a whisk to blend the two together and

>keep the sauce from separating (which it is very much inclined to do). When

>you have a uniform, creamy sauce you are done. You may serve it over asparagus

>or other vegetables, or over toast; if you want to brown the top, put it under

>the broiling unit in your stove for a minute or so. Experiment with some of

>the variations suggested in the original.

>My question: if you substitute margarine for the real butter is it a REALLY

>bad thing?

It might not work very well. First of all, the emulsified state of

margarine is much less stable than that of butter (which isn't very

stable anyway); the finished dish would probably be _very_ greasy,

unless your cream cheese is so full of xanthan gum or other

emulsifiers that it is doable. It also burns at a lower temperature

than butter does, so you'd have to be really careful with the

browning part, if you decide to do that.

Overall, I would advise against it. Any health or cost considerations

are probably offset by the difficulties added to the process and a

diminution of quality. Basically, no matter what you do, this isn't

going to be a really heart-healthy dish, so it might as well be

_good_ as well as bad for you.

Adamantius

From: Kathleen Kinard <belle_vivre at yahoo.com>

Date: September 23, 2004 3:36:43 PM CDT

To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] savory toasted cheese

A couple of tips, from my experience in making it-

Don't use triple cream brie! the fat content is so

deliciously high anyway, that when you reheat it, it

seperates terribly (well, if you microwave heat it)

When you're mixing the cheeses, also, if you use a

whisk, it will blend much easier... I am going to try

to do it one day with sharp white cheddar and goat

cheese, just to see what I get...

Just my humble two farthings-

Veronica Venier

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:07:11 -0500

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Savoury Tosted Cheese Goo

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Ysabeau:

> I'm working on my entry in a Savoury Tosted Cheese Goo competition. (NO

> PEEKING, Stefan!).

> I am trying to find a "different" combination of cheeses. I have the basics

> of what I want to do and it tastes good, but the consistency is a bit off.

> I tried using Queso Fresco and Neuchatel I got at the local farmers market

> for the cheeses and I think the Queso Fresco is what gave it the grainy

> texture. It tastes yummy but the texture is a bit grainy. My reasoning for

> the Queso Fresco is because I thought it would be closer to period cheeses

> than anything I can buy in the grocery store. It is very fresh and has no

> preservatives. If you don't know Queso Fresco, it is a bit crumbly and melts

> well. It has a very mild flavor. I guess we can't really know for sure how

> it was in period, but the cheese goos I've had in the past were more creamy.

> The challenge is to come up with a new perspective of Digbie's recipe.

> "Anyone using Cariadoc's redaction will be smeared with their own cheese

> goo." (Unless you are Cariadoc, of course.) I'm really new at redacting

> recipes and purposely did not go look at Cariadoc's recipe before starting

> this. I'll post my recipe afterward for comments and feedback...for now I

> don't want to give away any secrets ~grin~.

> So any alternate cheese suggestions? I was thinking maybe fontina? Or

> gruyere?

Well, it's an English dish (actually an English dish emulating a

Welsh tradition), and about cheeses, it specifically instructs the

cook to use "quick, fat, rich, well tasted cheese, (as the best of

Brye, cheshire, &c, or sharp thick cream cheese). I think the use of

cream cheese probably started just as a misunderstanding of that last

term, which refers to a cheese made from cream, and not that

gum-emulsified Philly stuff.

As for what cheese to use, I'd be mostly concerned with finding a

cheese that didn't harden too dramatically as it cools, at least not

when mixed with butter and such. Maybe a mixture from among the

cheeses likely to have been known to Digby... my experience with

Cheshire is that it has a slight graininess when melted (more so than

farmhouse Cheddar). As for Fontina or Gruyere, they'd do the job, but

probably aren't something Digby would have experienced. Hmmm...

There's always Parmigiano-Reggiano mixed with a full-cream cheese...

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:38:08 -0500

From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Savoury Tosted Cheese Goo

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Adamantius scripsit:

> I STR that neufchatel melts well,

> but is slightly granular, compared to cream cheese.

In my experience, Philly-style cream cheee is sticky, neufchatel a bit less

so, and I don't think of it as being particularly grainy when melted.

You might try Quark, which is a German cream cheese sort of thing. Comes in

little tubs like Mascarpone. Or for that matter you could try Mascapone.

I happen to like it made with Cheddar or Cheshire in the mix.

Cynara

Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:04:01 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question about breads

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> There is a recipe for crostada (sic?) in the Neapolitan cookbook. Buttered

>> toast sprinkled with sugar and cinnamon topped with cheese and reheated to

>> melt the cheese and meld the flavors. I served a version at the last

>> feast I did, so the text and translation is probably in the Florilegium.

>> Bear

> Yum!! I wonder how outré it would be if I served Crostada with a

> Cameline dipping sauce?

> Huette

That's an interesting idea. Probably not historical accurate, but

interesting.

If you do these, use thicker slices of cheese than the thin sliced deli cuts

and be sure to have enough oven space to melt and serve. They cool down

quick and I think they are better with at least a little warmth in them. I

used a medium swiss, but I think a sharper cheese would taste even better.

Bear

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:44:14 -0400

From: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese Goo Project

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

So it is coming up on A&S season here in Meridies and I have been

contemplating what project I should do. The Jellied Milk thread

started me compiling stuff there, but it just isn't exciting me right

now.

And then, while perusing The Original Mediterranean Cuisine I noticed

a cheese spread type recipe from Sent Sovi. And I thought, hey, why

not do something that looks at cheese goo type stuff across the ages.

Starting with Moretum from Ancient times up to STC in OOP 17th

century.

So far I have the three mentioned along with one from the

Anon-Andalusian Cookbook. And a German one previously posted to this

list by Giano.

Speaking of this one, Giano, this one is listed as from the

Wolfenbüttel MS but with no other attribution. Would it be possible to

get a date and region for that?

59. Men schal nemen garophesneghele unde musschaten, cardemomen,

peper, ingever, alle lickwol gheweghen, unde make daraff botteren

edder kese.

So, the question here is, has anyone else stumbled across period

references for a savory cheese spread type dish? I would appreciate

any direction that could be provided.

Glad Tidings,

Serena da Riva

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:30:11 +0200

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese Goo Project

To: Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com>, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Am Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2005 18:44 schrieb Barbara Benson:

> Speaking of this one, Giano, this one is listed as from the

> Wolfenbüttel MS but with no other attribution. Would it be possible

> to get a date and region for that?

It was dated to "c. 1500" by its first editor, IIRC purely on paleographic

grounds, and I have to still be convinced of this. Definitely 'German Late

Medieval', though, given the prevalence of sugar. It is written in a Low

German dialect, so it belongs north of the dialect border and presumably in

Lower Saxony, where it is now held. I can't be more precise until I've had a

chance to actually read the stuff and look at a facsimile, but that's the

picture I get.

It's a VERY interesting manuscript and I look forward to finishing the

translation - one day :-/

Giano

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:38:29 -0500

From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>

Subject: Re: Cheese Goo was Re: [Sca-cooks]

To: oks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

LOL...is there such a thing as having too much cheese goo?

I've had fun experimenting with the recipe. My favorite, which I

was going to enter in the cheese goo competition a few years ago:

I took very thin slices of steak, not quite steak-umm but close. I

pan fried it at a high heat with a bit of garlic and onions. I

took it out of the pan and chopped up one of the steaks very fine.

I then melted the cheeses with a bit of butter and/or milk (I

tried several but can't remember exactly which ones were my

favorites now...I never make it the same way twice) in the pan,

scraping up the browned bits and tossing in a bit of the chopped

beef and onions at the end. I ate it on toast with the steak

slices...kind of a medieval cheese steak ~grin~.

Ysabeau

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:44:18 -0500

From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>

Subject: RE: Cheese Goo was Re: [Sca-cooks]

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Digby says:

----

Cut pieces of quick, fat, rich, well tasted cheese, (as the best

of Brye, Cheshire, &c. or sharp thick Cream-Cheese) into a dish of

thick beaten melted Butter, that hath served for Sparages or the

like, or pease, or other boiled Sallet, or ragout of meat, or

gravy of Mutton: and, if you will, Chop some of the Asparages

among it, or slices of Gambon of Bacon, or fresh-collops, or

Onions, or Sibboulets, or Anchovis, and set all this to melt upon

a Chafing-dish of Coals, and stir all well together, to

Incorporate them; and when all is of an equal consistence, strew

some gross White-Pepper on it, and eat it with tosts or crusts of

White-bread. You may scorch it at the top with a hot Fire-Shovel.

----

My interpretation is that they would have used a pan that had

already served a purpose and had bits left in it to add flavor.

The cheeses melt fairly quickly so it could be done as the last

stage of a meal or to prepare a quick snack between meals with

pans that hadn't been washed yet (hygiene not being what it is

today).

Ysabeau

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:03:28 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: Cheese Goo was Re: [Sca-cooks]

To: ysabeau at mail.ev1.net, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Apr 11, 2006, at 11:44 AM, ysabeau wrote:

> My interpretation is that they would have used a pan that had

> already served a purpose and had bits left in it to add flavor.

Can you tell us a little more about your line of thought here? The

recipe says, essentially, to add some liquid from a previous recipe,

including as possibilities the melted butter "sauce" from cooked

vegetables [IOW, more, I suspect, like beurre blanc than like simple

melted butter], or meat gravy from a roast or a stew, and then it

says you can add some of the vegetable from the butter sauce, if any,

or bacon, or slices of fresh meat (I assumed that's where you were

going with your cheese-steak interpretation), or onions, chives, or

anchovies. I don't think flavor is going to be a problem ;-).

It also says to heat all this in a chafing-dish. I'm not sure if a

chafing-dish is something that would ever be used for cooking bacon

or steaks in any quantity.

> The cheeses melt fairly quickly so it could be done as the last

> stage of a meal or to prepare a quick snack between meals with

> pans that hadn't been washed yet (hygiene not being what it is

> today).

I'm seeing it as a cheese course served at the end of a supper,

possibly using the butter from a boiled sallet served earlier in the

same meal...

Cheese often seems to show up at or near the end of a meal: from the

middle ages and beyond, it was thought by most medical authorities to

close up the chest and stomach, which is something you don't want

happening at the beginning of a meal...

As for hygiene, I'm not sure there's too much evidence that suggests

medieval and Renaissance cooks were any less interested in it than

modern ones, and their labor costs tended to be lower, so lower

technology levels wouldn't automatically translate into more dirt or

pathogens.

Adamantius (nudging)

Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:23:39 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Savory Tosted Cheese and similar recipes

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

As requested, here's my reconstruction and information from the la

Varenne version of ramequins of cheese (much like Digby's savory toasty

cheese. Mmmm. Cheeeeeeese..... ;))

Please don’t copy or publish without permission...this is from one of

our Feudal Gourmet pamphlets (the one on French food in the

Renaissance). You can find ordering info for the pamphlets here:

www.liripipoe.com/sca/culinary

enjoy!

--AM

***********************************

RAMEQUINS OF CHEESE

This is basically an open faced toasted cheese sandwich. A

really really good toasted cheese sandwich. The recipe here is from le

Cuisinier françois, but there is a similar version in Epulario’s work

(E226 "To Frie Cheese in a Pan") , as well as the later period English

source attributed to Kenelm Digby (p220, "Savory toasted or melted

Cheese"). The type of cheese you use can decide the end product. Brie

and Gruyere were both wonderful, and used in France during the period,

and a sharp white cheddar is sublime (Oxford English Dictionary says

"cheddar" dates from the 17th century, but I rather doubt it was the

artificially colored obnoxiously orange stuff we see in most grocery

stores today). I used salted butter, and so would tend to omit the salt

called for in the original, but you may do as you see fit. I should warn

you...this recipe is not for the cholesterol-conscience. Come to think

of it, not many of the recipes by la Varenne are!

Ramequins of Cheese [V#41, p221]

Take some cheese, melt it with some butter, an onion whole, or stamped,

salt and pepper in abundance, spread all upon bread, pass the fire

shovel over it red hot, and serve it warme.

Our Version:

1 loaf of good chewy French or Italian style bread, cut into 1" thick

slices

2T salted butter

2T minced onion

3/4 lb. cheese, cubed (if you're using Brie, remove the rind)

1/4 tsp. freshly ground black pepper

pinch of salt if desired

Melt the butter in a medium sauce pan, over medium heat. Add the minced

onion and simmer in the butter until the onion begins to clear. Don't

let the butter brown. Add the cubed cheese, and stir constantly until

the cheese is melted and the butter is absorbed. You should have a nice,

creamy, even texture. Add the salt if you wish, and the pepper.

Spread the cheese on the sliced bread, and arrange them on a cookie

sheet. Stick the slices under a pre-heated broiler for a minute or so,

until the cheese is all brown and bubbly. Serve immediately.

Makes about 12 or so slices.

Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:55:17 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Farmer Cheese in STC, was sumthin' about

faith and cellos...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:

> Actually, that's one of the reasons, I suspect, that that crafty old

> devil Digby has you include the butter from cooked veg. It's a butter-

> and-water emulsion. When you stir it as the cheese melts, it remains

> a smooth emulsion -- if you've done it right.

> Adamantius

Yeah, that's exactly the way it works. My husband, Phillip, is our

resident STC expert. He uses a mixture of brie and cream cheese with

butter and white pepper. He's taught numerous people how to make

it...and has bailed out numerous others who start the stuff cooking,

only to get to a point of a really nasty looking mess. He reassures

them that it just needs to go a bit longer. At some point, "magic"

happens, and it becomes the emulsion we all know and love.

Kiri

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:15:27 -0400

From: "Guenievre de Monmarche" <guenievre at erminespot.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Back to STC for a Moment...

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> We've never tried to make it ahead of time...usually, we make it

> onsite. You can handle serving it one of two ways...sometimes we steam

> the veggies, spoon the goo over them, sprinkle a little cooked bacon on

> top and slide it under the broiler. Or...I've also seen it served as a

> "dip" kind of thing with veggies and good sourdough bread. Either way

> works, though the second way is, I suspect, closer to Digby's

> original!

> Kiri

As far as speeding up the process, the one thing I've found is that if I

want to make STC in a camp setting, I usually soften the butter and cheese,

and toss everything in my Kitchenaid at home and give it a good beating -

this "pre-homogenizes" everything - and stick it in a ziplock. When I

actually heat it up, having everything premixed means MUCH less stirring and

quicker melting. Just a helpful hint...

Guenievre