green-sauces-msg – 2/5/12

Period green sauces. Sauces of green herbs.

NOTE: See also the files: sauces-msg, broths-msg, eggs-msg, camelne-sauce-msg, garlic-sauces-msg, vinegar-msg, verjuice-msg, garum-msg, mustard-msg, Mustard-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:59:11 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Food Attitude

There is a recipe in Scully's Early French Cookery for a Green Sage sauce that
is marvelous with chicken.  I'll try to find and and post it tomorrow.  I served
it last fall with chicken chunks for a luncheon and folks were spreading it on
bread/eating it with their fingers when the chicken was gone!

Kiri


Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:43:38 -0500
From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>
Subject: non-member submission - Re: SC - Period pesto recipe- Roman Moretaria-  LONG

> To get back to the original topic of discussion, there's a lot of
> evidence to suggest pesto is very old indeed.

Speaking of Pesto...
We tried to make a green sauce from _The Medieval Kitchen_ which is cited
as beign from Tractatus de modo preparandi et condiendi omnia cibaria:
"Here is how to make green sauce: take ginger, cinnamon, pepper, nutmeg,
cloves, parslety, and sage. First, grind the spices, then the herbs and
add a third of the sage and parsley and if you wish, two or three cloves
of garlic. Moisten with vinegar or verjuice. Note that to ever sauce and
condiment salt is added, and crumb of bread to thicken it."

What we got was a sort of thick pesto. The more vinegar we added, the less
we could taste the other ingredients. Redon, when redacting it, included
water, which we ended up trying, and we also tried adding olive oil. (I
know, I know, olive oil is farther from the intention than the water...)

But it was VERY thick, and adding more vinegar seemed not to be an option.
Suggestions?


Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:14:31 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: non-member submission - Re: SC - Period pesto recipe- Roman Moretaria-   LONG

Not sure who sent this, as it was unsigned:
>Speaking of Pesto...
>We tried to make a green sauce from _The Medieval Kitchen_ which is cited
>as being from Tractatus de modo preparandi et condiendi omnia cibaria:
>"Here is how to make green sauce: take ginger, cinnamon, pepper, nutmeg,
>cloves, parslety, and sage. First, grind the spices, then the herbs and
>add a third of the sage and parsley and if you wish, two or three cloves
>of garlic. Moisten with vinegar or verjuice. Note that to ever sauce and
>condiment salt is added, and crumb of bread to thicken it."
>
>What we got was a sort of thick pesto. The more vinegar we added, the less
>we could taste the other ingredients. Redon, when redacting it, included
>water, which we ended up trying, and we also tried adding olive oil. (I
>know, I know, olive oil is farther from the intention than the water...)
>
>But it was VERY thick, and adding more vinegar seemed not to be an
>option.
>
>Suggestions?

Eat it thick, like modern mustard.

This is a sauce that was made at The Boar Hunt Feast last year and 
served with Roast Chicken. It was very, very thick, almost, if you'll 
excuse this analogy, like a dip. But, omuhgawd, it was delicious. 
There was a lot leftover, so i took home a huge baggie full and 
dipped anything i could think of into it, like tofu and cheese.

The cook hadn't used too much vinegar, so although it was tart and 
tangy, it didn't have "pucker power", and the flavor of the herbs was 
very clear.

While green and thick, I didn't even think of pesto when i was eating 
it, although I can see why someone might.

Anahita al-shazhiyya


Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:49:25 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - What would you do?  or 2 months to freak out

OK...here 'tis:

Froide sauge--Cold Sage Sauce
Du fait de cuisine, #49,from Early French Cookery.

Et pour vous donner a  entendre comme vous feres la froide sauge si faictes que vous haies grant foison de percy, grant foison de salvy, et quiíilz soient bien deliez et laves et esgoutes et broyes tresbien, et si en broyes tant grant quantite quíelle soit bien verd; et quant elles seront bien broyees si les mesles et mectes avecques vostre pain.  Et puis prennes voz espices, cíest assavoir gingibre blanc, granne et du poyvre et coiles tout cela, et agoustes du vin aigre et du sel et le coules trebien espes.  Et quant vostre grein sera bien cuit si le tires hors sur belles postz et tables belles et nectes, et puis partisses ledit grein, cíest assavoir la poullaille díune part et díautre part les pieces du porcellot, et tant que quant viendra au drecier si mectes en ung chescun platz quatre pieces duit grein, cíest assavoir ung quartier de poullaille et une piecete dudit porcellot sus et en la moytie díun chescun plat, et en líautre partie autretant; et en chescun plat en líune part si mectes de la calaminee et líautre part a couste de la froide sauge.  Et puis prennes du blanc des oefs et les tailles par menuz dez, puis ensemes sus lesditz platz par dessus la friode sauge; et de la dragiee mectes sur la calunafree.

Redaction: Scully.

1 cup chopped fresh parsley
1/2-3/4 cup fresh sage
1 cup hot chicken bouillion
pinch saffron
1/4 cup white wine vinegar
2 hard-boiled egg yolks
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp ginger
1/4 tsp grains of paradise
1/4 tsp. cinnamon
2 slices white bread, crusts removed, torn into small pieces

1.  Process parsley & sage in blender with chicken broth or bouillion.  Blend slowly.

2.  Cook on low heat.  Add saffron.

3.  Add vinegar to mashed hard-boiled egg yolks and blend with herb mixture

4.  Add spices

5.  Add bread a little at a time until thick consistency is reached.

6.  Taste, correct spices, remove from heat and cool.

I think you'll find it very tasty.  I suggest making it several days in advance to allow the flavors to blend thoroughly!

Use it in good health!

Kiri

"Collette S. Waters" wrote:
> Sounds like something that will fit MY June feast.  Please send
> Thanks Begga
>
> Elaine Koogler wrote:
> > Along the lines of cold chicken, we put out cold chicken at Amalric & Caia's
> > Coronation, along with a Green Sage Sauce that I got from Scully's Early 
> > French cookbook.  We got rave reviews on the sauce.
> > It's one of those sauces that improves with age, 
> > so making it up ahead of time is a good thing!
> >
> > Kiri


Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 21:27:01 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question on Green Sauce

Also sprach Susan Laing:
>Anyone know the keep-ability of Green Sauce (ie Herb Sauce)
>Can I make it two days in advance of an event and store in the fridge??
>Mari
>(working out her pre-prep schedule)

If it contains an acid, such as vinegar, you may find that it will
tend to blacken over time. This will vary according to which greens
or herbs you use (basil or mint will blacken quickly, parsley less
so, but it _will_ blacken), so you may want to omit it and add it
just before serving. You might puree your herbs in advance. A quick
blanching, just a coupla seconds, in salted, boiling water, then into
ice water to quickly cool it, finish cooking, and defuse the enzymes,
might be a good idea, then you can store your greens wrapped in a
towel or some other form of drainage, and puree them onsite. It's a
quick sauce to make...

I suspect this isn't an area where it's worth it to save time, if you
know what I mean...

Adamantius


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:26:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question on Green Sauce

> Can I make it two days in advance of an event and store in the fridge??

I usually make green sauce the night before, as it tends to lose piquancy
over time, but you _could_ make it 2 days in advance. I'd recommend trying
a small sample and letting it sit in the fridge for 2 days to see how
you feel about the result.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:48:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
To: sca-east at indra.com
Subject: [EK] sauces/spreads from war camp

A couple people asked me for the recipes for this stuff, so here they are.
<snip of non-green sauces. See sauces-msg, camelne-sauce-msg -Stefan>

Spicy Green Sauce (the pesto-like stuff):
Original:"Here is how to make green sauce: take ginger, cinnamon, pepper,
nutmeg, cloves, parsley, and sage. First grind the spices, then the herbs,
and add a third of the sage and parsley, and, if you wish, three or two
cloves of garlic. Moisten with vinegar or verjuice. Note that to every
sauce and condiment salt is added, and crumb of bread to thicken it.
(Tractatus de modo preparandi et condiendi omnia cibaria 394, translated
in The Medieval Kitchen, Redon et al.)"

    * 3 slices dry bread
    * 3 cups parsley
    * 15 leaves fresh sage
    * 1- 1 1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper
    * 1 tsp ground cloves
    * 3/4 tsp. cinnamon
    * 3/4 tsp ground ginger
    * 12 Tb wine vinegar
    * 3 clove garlic?
    * 1/2 a nutmeg, grated
    * scant 1 1/2 c. water
    * pinch salt

Grind together the pepper and cinnamon. Add ginger and cloves, and grate
in the nutmeg. Then grind up the parsley and sage in a food processor or
blender (add optional garlic at this time). Add spices. Mix.Then add
ground-up crumbs of dry bread, vinegar and water and mix to make a smooth
paste.


Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:55:47 -0500 (EST)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cold green sauce?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> i am trying to find a COLD green sauce for cold poached chicken... as
> medieval as possible.   mebbe a garlic/herb emulsion?
> luncheon buffet... outdoors... want the 3 saues (horseradish cream for
> brisket, lombard mustard for sausage, and ----------------- for 
> chicken) to
> reflect kingdom colors: white, gold, green.

*grin* Here's some:

Spicy Green Sauce:
http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/recipes/spicygreenhtm

Rumpolt's parsley sauce:
http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/recipes/greensauce.html

Sauce for Pigeons:
http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/recipes/pigeonsalsa.html

And of course there's always the sage sauce for chickens... there area
number of versions of that.

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:13:04 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cold green sauce?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 10:05 -0700 2004-01-15, Kathleen A. Roberts wrote:
>  i am trying to find a COLD green sauce for cold poached chicken...
> as medieval as possible.   mebbe a garlic/herb emulsion?

If you go to Viandier (c 1395), there are at least three possibilities
suggested for use with chicken or other fowl.  The second (# 155) is
quite like the garlic/herb emulsion you mention.

The first (# 68) is explicitly for cold chicken.  I first cooked this
for a pentathlon competition back in 1990.  I have my redaction which
I can type in if this is the sauce you choose.

68. Cold Sage [Sauce].

Take your chicken, cook it in water, and put it to cool.  Crush
ginger, cassia flowers, grains of paradise and cloves, without
sieving.  Crush bread, parsley and sage, with a bit of saffron in the
greens (if you wish it to be bright green), and strain through
cheesecloth.  Some sieve into it hard cooked egg yolks steeped in
vinegar.  Cut your chicken into halves, quarters or limbs, and put
them on plates with the sauce on top.  If there were hard cooked
eggs, cut them into bits with a knife and not with the hand.

These two are not specifically for cold chicken:

155. Green Garlic [Sauce].

Crush garlic, bread and greens, and steep together.

216. Green Verjuice [Sauce].

Take sorrel including the stem, steep in some other verjuice, strain
[through cheesecloth], and add a bread crust so that it does not
turn.  (A 1490 printed edition quoted by Pichon et al., p. 194.)

Thorvald


Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:11:30 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] lunch ideas- feedback
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Some years back, we used a sage sauce recipe from Du fait de cuisine with
great success.  You can make the sauce up ahead of time...it's actually
better to do this because it allows the seasonings to meld.  We served it
with cold chicken, again cooked ahead of time.

*Froide sauge--Cold Sage Sauce*?*Du fait de cuisine, #49*,from *Early French
Cookery.*

* *

Et pour vous donner a  entendre comme vous feres la froide sauge si faictes
que vous haies grant foison de percy, grant foison de salvy, et qui?ilz
soient bien deliez et laves et esgoutes et broyes tresbien, et si en broyes
tant grant quantite qu?elle soit bien verd; et quant elles seront bien
broyees si les mesles et mectes avecques vostre pain.  Et puis prennes voz
espices, c?est assavoir gingibre blanc, granne et du poyvre et coiles tout
cela, et agoustes du vin aigre et du sel et le coules trebien espes.  Et
quant vostre grein sera bien cuit si le tires hors sur belles postz et
tables belles et nectes, et puis partisses ledit grein, c?est assavoir la
poullaille d?une part et d?autre part les pieces du porcellot, et tant que
quant viendra au drecier si mectes en ung chescun platz quatre pieces duit
grein, c?est assavoir ung quartier de poullaille et une piecete dudit
porcellot sus et en la moytie d?un chescun plat, et en l?autre partie
autretant; et en chescun plat en l?une part si mectes de la calaminee et
l?autre part a couste de la froide sauge.  Et puis prennes du blanc des oefs
et les tailles par menuz dez, puis ensemes sus lesditz platz par dessus la
friode sauge; et de la dragiee mectes sur la calunafree.**

Redaction: Scully.

1 cup chopped fresh parsley
1/2-3/4 cup fresh sage
1 cup hot chicken bouillion
pinch saffron
1/4 cup white wine vinegar
2 hard-boiled egg yolks
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp ginger
1/4 tsp grains of paradise
1/4 tsp. cinnamon
2 slices white bread, crusts removed, torn into small pieces

1.  Process parsley & sage in blender with chicken broth or bouillion.  Blend
slowly.

2.  Cook on low heat.  Add saffron.

3.  Add vinegar to mashed hard-boiled egg yolks and blend with herb mixture

4.  Add spices

5.  Add bread a little at a time until thick consistency is reached.

6.  Taste, correct spices, remove from heat and cool.

If you have a Restaurant Depot anywhere near you, they usually have
boneless, skinless chicken breasts for around $1.28/lb...if you buy a 40#
case.  We have found that it works well to purchase the 40# case, and, if
you only need 20#, it's not hard to find people who are willing to puchase
the remaining 20#...it comes in 10# bags, so it's easy to split up!

Kiri


Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:34:18 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts

Eduardo wrote:
<<< If you post the list we might all be able to add to your list.
What is the criteria for the sauces? Does it have to be in the 
title? Does it have to have certain components?
Let everyone know so we can crowd source (cook) your sauces >>>

I confess my "standards" are low... I mean loose... I mean 
open-minded, but not so open that my brain will fall out:

I started looking for sauces with variations on the name Green Sauce 
and Cameline. As I read sauce recipes, I noticed a number that had 
pretty much the same ingredients as those with the explicit names, 
but with different names or no specific name, e.g. the sauce for 
roasts in the anonymous Tuscan.

Here are the Green and Cameline sauces and variations I have found so 
far... still hunting...

---------------------

20 GREEN SAUCES and Variations

Medieval green sauces seem to me to be less comparable to modern 
pesto (which includes cheese and nuts) and more comparable to modern 
Argentine chimichurri sauce - which is made with parsley -- and 
sometimes cilantro or oregano or basil -- olive oil, wine vinegar, 
garlic, salt, pepper... and smoked paprika or dried chili powder.

(1) Tractatus de modo preparandi et condiendi omnia cibaria #394, 
France, early 14th c. - Salsa viridis- green sauce

(2) Le Viandier de Taillevent, France, circa 1375-1380 - 73. Froide 
sauge -- Cold Sage -- includes parsley as well as sage
(3) ibid - - - - - Saulce verde - Green Sauce [(green) wheat, sorrel 
or ressise (not sure what this is), a little sage]
(4) ibid - - - - - 161. Saulce vert: Green Sauce.
(5) ibid - - - - - listed with "grosse" meats, such as beef, pork and 
mutton, boiled: "...a good Green Sauce of parsley, sage and hyssop 
made without wine..."
(6) ibid - - - - - 215. Green Sauce.
(7) ibid - - - - - 216. Vertius vert - Green Verjuice [the only herb 
this uses is sorrel]

(8) Forme of Cury, England, 1390 (there are some variations among 
manuscripts) - XX.VII. Verde Sawse.
(9) ibid - - - - - 144 Verde Sawse - appears to be the same as - 
Cxxxviij. Verde sauce

(10) Le Menagier de Paris, France, circa 1393 - Green Sauce with Spices.
(11) ibid - - - - - Sorrel Verjuice.  [this offers several 
possibilities, one with parsley and some without sorrel]

(12) the Anonimo Toscano, Libro della Cocina, Italy, late 14-early 15 
c. - Dei savori: e prima del savore per l'arrosto / The Sauces: and 
first the sauce for roasts. [The only herb this uses is basil]

(13) Liber cure cocorum, Sloane MS. 1986, England, circa 1420-1440, 
R. Morris (ed.) - Pur verde sawce.

in Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books:
(14) Harleian MS. 4016, ca. 1450 -- Sauce Verte.
(15) Ashmole MS. 1439, ca. 1430 -- Sauce vert.

(16) De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine, Bartolomeo Sacchi (aka 
Platina), Italy, 15th c - Moretum Viride / Green Relish.

(17) A Noble Boke off Cookry, England, ca. 1467 or 68 (R. Napier, 
ed.) - To mak vert sauce...

(18) Libro de guisados, manjares y potajes intitulado libro de 
cozina..., Ruperto de Nola, Libre del Coch, Catalan, 1520, Libro de 
Cozina, Spain, 1525 -- 156. Perejil - Parsley [Sauce]
(19) ibid - - - - - 157. Salsa de Rabano Vexisco y de Gallocresta - 
Sauce (of Horseradish and) of Clary Sage

(20) Ein New Kochbuch, Marx Rumpolt, Germany, 1581 - 9. Sauce of green parsley

---------------------

15 CAMELINE SAUCES and Variations

Is this name *really* based on "camel", as seems to be the general 
assumption? I wonder if perhaps it derived from "Caneline", i.e., 
based on canel/cannel, a word for cinnamon, the primary spice in most 
recipes for this sauce, with a shift from "n" to "m".

< snip - See camelne-sauce-msg  -Stefan>
---------------------
I confess that i (a) started out using Doc's Medieval Cookery site 
and (b) haven't fully plumbed the depths of Stefan's Florilegium, 
although i dipped into it. I am certain there are more related 
recipes. There are several cookbooks i haven't looked into, such as 
Martino and 16th c. (and very early 17th c.) English cookbooks. And i 
don't own *every* published source. So i am most appreciative of 
pointers to additional recipes.
-- 
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	green-sauces-msg	9 of 9