garum-msg - 7/29/15 A fermented fish sauce used in ancient Rome. Also includes comments on a similar fish sauce called liquamen. NOTE: See also the files: sauces-msg, fish-msg, murri-msg, spices-msg, pickled-foods-msg, vinegar-msg, verjuice-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:12:41 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Definition > For those of us who are .... vocabularily challenged, what is > "liquamen"? > > Caitlin "liquamen": another name for garum. A fermented fish sauce used in ancient Rome. Made by layering in a well sealed barrel, fatty fish such as mackerel or sardine, strong herbs, and about 1 1/2" of salt. Layer this until the barrel is filled and seal. Leave in the sun for about seven days. After this fermentation, stir daily for 2-3 weeks until it has turned to liquid. You'll find a detailed description of various methods and varieties on pages 27-29 in _A Taste of Ancient Rome_ by Giacosa. I have used oriental fish sauce, but it lacks the punch described of the original. Maybe adding the strong herbs to steep for a while in the fish sauce would help. Ant other suggestions would be appreciated as this is a common Roman condiment in cooking. Giacosa also offers two suggested preparations for garum on p. 29 for those who wish to avoid the seven day fermentation :o) - -- In Humble Service to God and Crown; fra nicol¢ difrancesco (mka nick sasso) From: Philip & Susan Troy Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:55:47 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Definition Nick Sasso (fra niccolo) wrote: > "liquamen": another name for garum. A fermented fish sauce used in > ancient Rome. Made by layering in a well sealed barrel, fatty fish such > as mackerel or sardine, strong herbs, and about > 1 1/2" of salt. Layer this until the barrel is filled and seal. Leave > in the sun for about seven days. After this fermentation, stir daily > for 2-3 weeks until it has turned to liquid. Bear in mind that there's more than one recipe available for liquamen. Some of them omit the "strong herbs" (some recipes specify oregano, but others specify only fish and salt). Some also call for whole fish, and others call for fish entrails. > You'll find a detailed description of various methods and varieties on > pages 27-29 in _A Taste of Ancient Rome_ by Giacosa. I have used > oriental fish sauce, but it lacks the punch described of the original. That would be hard to say for sure until you had experienced the punch of the original. It would also depend on _what_ oriental fish sauce you are referring to. There are dozens, some made from the whole fish or fish entrails as mentioned above, and some made from cleaned fish. Some are made from shrimp. Asia is a big place, and every hundred miles or so you come to a place where they think the people you just saw a hundred miles back are jerks who couldn't make fish sauce if their lives depended on it. : ) Variations on a central theme are therefore common. > Maybe adding the strong herbs to steep for a while in the fish sauce > would help. Ant other suggestions would be appreciated as this is a > common Roman condiment in cooking. That's just about the only solution I can think of, unless you make the stuff yourself. I'm not so sure about how much kick actual Roman liquamen might or might not have had, actually. There are recipes that call for adding it to wine as a beverage, IIRC. It might be a question of total effect, where you use a lot to get a powerful effect, and less for a more subtle approach. Adamantius From: Philip & Susan Troy Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:06:16 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Definition Peters, Rise J. wrote: > For those of us who are .... vocabularily challenged, what is "liquamen"? > > Caitlin I seem to be getting messages out of sequence. As previously stated, liquamen, at least in ancient Roman usage, is a salty, tangy condiment made from fish. It is described as being a semi-clear liquid after the solids settle out. The semisolid dregs are called allec or hallec and are also used as a seasoning. However, watch out: Platina calls for liquamen in his recipes, and he is referring to rendered, liquid fat, such as melted lard or suet. Adamantius From: Philip & Susan Troy Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 19:03:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Liquamen -- was: SC - Definition Nick Sasso (fra niccolo) wrote: > It seems that the brine keeps liquimen sanitary and promotes the > liquification, so it doesn't seem all that bad to me. The salt also > probably effects the pH to activate some of the enzymes and bacteria > needed as well. Strange to say the least. As I understand the process (there was a big to-do on liquamen, garum, nuoc mam, nampla, etc. in rec.food.historic a couple of weeks ago), the salt is there to prevent the growth and reproduction of pathogenic bacteria. This it does. It does allow a certain proliferation of lactobaccili, even with the high salinity. They eat whatever it is they eat and produce, in return, lactic acid, in which the fish are effectively pickled, just like kosher dills or sauerkraut. Enzymes in the fish (especially if there are entrails involved) break the fish down to a paste/liquid. Yum! ; ) Adamantius From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:56:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Liquamen In a message dated 97-07-08 16:53:56 EDT, you write: << what is "liquamen"? >> I think it was a fish sauce used by the Romans. I use an oriental fish sauce as a sub or if the dish is more subtle I use oyster sauce. Lord Ras From: "Melissa Martines" Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 08:35:17 CST Subject: SC - Garum I made some garum for the Roman Feast I did at our local May Tourney. I used mackerel (3.5 pounds cut into chunks), a lot of salt (6 pounds) oregano, coriander and cumin. I let it steep two weeks in the back of my car (I used a plastic beer fermenter for this) which sits in the sun most days (I went for two weeks since the Tennessee sunshine in March is probably not as powerful as the Italian). Then, I began stirring it. It does make a nice, clear, oily liquid. And, thanks probably to the salt, it never smelled (for which my lord was very grateful when I moved it into the house). The overwhelming taste of the stuff was salt. There was an undertaste of fish, and the herbs left a pleasant aftertaste. Everyone who tried it liked it -- the Baroness particularly liked it on the hardboiled egges in the salad :). In my research, I concluded that when recipes call for it, they are actually after the salt taste. The fish oil (very rich in nutrients) is an added benefit without a lot of added taste. Morgan From: Mark Schuldenfrei Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Liquamen -- was: SC - Definition Adamantius wrote: As I understand the process (there was a big to-do on liquamen, garum, nuoc mam, nampla, etc. in rec.food.historic a couple of weeks ago), the salt is there to prevent the growth and reproduction of pathogenic bacteria. This it does. Indeed. While some of the exchange got stupidly personal and silly, it is well worth checking with http://www.dejanews.com for the thread, looking especially for postings from Andrew Smith. It was, shall we say, definitive. Check in the May/June timeframe. Tibor Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:01:13 EST From: LrdRas Subject: Re: SC - Gulf Wars & a question mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com writes: << I've been reading the Roman recipe website and wondered if liquamen could be substituted with nuoc muam sauce? I know we've discussed stuff like this before. Gunthar >> I always sub Thai fish sauce or a similar Far Eastern fish sauce for "liquamen". I do not know how close actual manufacturing methods are to the Roman stuff but, IMHO, such a substitution is far more justified than water or broth. :-) Ras Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:10:43 -0700 From: Rob Baldassano Subject: RE: SC - Garum & Verjuice production sources? >Can anyone direct me to recipe/directions for Verjuice and garum? >niccolo difrancesco As for the Garum, there are recipes documented in Rosenbaum & Flowers translation of Apicius "The Roman Cookery Book", they include the fermented version that was made in mass production and a quick version you can make on your stove top in one afternoon. I no longer have a copy of the book, it was lent to me a couple of years ago when I did a course of Roman food at a feast, and I have since returned it to its owner. Euriol of Lothian [Submitted by: Marilyn Traber ] Subject: [Apicius] garum/liquamen Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:41:08 PST From: "Susan Hryckiewicz" To: Apicius at onelist.com This gets down to language semantics, but there is a subtle difference in concept. Is “garum” a translation of “liquamen” or a period equivalent term? Is it a term in current usage anywhere in the world? If it is a modern translation, WHY? Where did the word come from, and how? Any clues? Susan Hryckiewicz Selivia de l'Estoile, Lochac (Australia) Subject: [Apicius] garum Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:36:17 GMT From: Carol Dery To: Apicius at onelist.com The ancient Greeks used a fish sauce called garos (not garon - this is the accusative case which is why it is not in the dictionary) from about the fifth century BC, and it is this that the Romans took over. Garum (Lat.) derives from garos (Gk. actually a type of fish). The Romans used the various types of fish sauce very much more than the Greeks ever did however, which is why not many people know about the Greek version. As regards the various terminology for Roman fish sauces, it goes like this: Garum is the name for the best quality fish sauce (garum sociorum is the very best of all - It was made in Spain from mackerel), but it is also used generically in the early empire. Liquamen was originally an inferior product to garum, but by the time of the late Empire (when Apicius' cookbook was being compiled), liquamen had largely replaced garum as a generic term for fish sauce. There is also something called muria, which is the pickle that salt fish was transported in. It could also be used to pickle other things as well. Then there is allec, which is a fish paste. The other three are all liquids. Carol Subject: [Apicius] Re: garum/liquamen Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:22:11 -0600 From: Bill Thayer To: Apicius at onelist.com Pliny (XXXI.xliii.93, direct local link to the passage online at http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Pliny_the_ Elder/31*.html#93> is very mildly helpful, merely stating that _garum_ comes from some fish the Greeks call _garon_, although in his time the stuff was no longer produced from that fish. If this is true, it's unlikely to be _karon_ since _k_ and _g_ both existed as separate sounds and letters in both Greek and Latin. Also, garum doesn't involve shrimp, and Pliny is rather careful about differentiating between fish and other sea life: he's writing a natural history encyclopedia, after all. Varro unfortunately only refers to the word _garum_ (ix.66) to tell you that it has no plural because it's something sold by weight, i.e. not enumerable. BT Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:48:04 -0800 From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Aislinn C. C. wrote: >I have no idea if it is the same plant used by the Romans. Tannahill >gives an intriguing process for making liquamen in her book. Would >modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius? I've never tasted actual Roman style liquamen, but have had various fish sauces from around 4 different Southeast Asian countries. I recommend Thai fish sauce (nam pla). Vietnamese fish sauce is a decent second. I REALLY didn't like the taste of Philippino fish sauce, nor of Chinese fish sauce. Personal taste. But i should think, knowing how they and liquamen are made, at least from reading books, that any of them would be closer to liquamen than oyster sauce, since it isn't made from fish, and has all sorts of other additives, whereas the Southeast Asian fish sauces are just little fish and salt, like liquamen. Anahita Gauri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:07:24 -0800 From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Iu'liana >aislinncc at mailcity.com writes: > >Would modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius? > >I was wondering if Nuoc Nam Nhi would work. Yeah. That would be fine, as far as i can tell. That's Vietnamese fish sauce. Thai fish sauce is similar. Both much closer to liquamen than Chinese oyster sauce (has sugar and other stuff - i don't have a bottle on hand to list all other additives) Anahita Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:50:05 EST From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Garum or liquamen to me is a much more substantial sauce than the fish sauces so far mentioned, unless one of them is more substantial than the nuoc mam sauce I have seen and tasted. I prefer to use anchovy paste, which is simply anchovies and salt. For the various garum/liquamen sauces ie oxygarum,hydrogarum, oenogarum- I simply combine it with the appropriate liquid vinegar, water or wine respectively. There is a gentleman he is an Italian chef, operating a restaurant in Rome I believe) who regularly posts on the Apicius list and during a thread on this topic put it very well. I have discussed using his post with him and here it is, in its entirety, ...... go for it Stefan, this would be an excellent contribution to the Florilegium! (IMO)- Hauviette Marco Bernini writes--I am probably going to ignite some controversy here but I do not agree that Nuoc mam and garum are the same thing at all.Nuoc mam is basically a fish based soy sauce originally made by fermenting anchovies in brine. Today it is often made with concentrated extracts that are then diluted, the resulting sauce is very watery and quite like fishy soy sauce. Most eastern cuisines have a sauce of this sort; the chinese have fish soy, the thai’s also have a variant as do the Malays and so on. Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read, it is alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood depending on who’s description you read. This is then layered alternately with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on who’s recipe you use. The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is commonly thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large amount of salt present. What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and a thick lumpy brine is formed. This is then strained either finely or coarsely depending on the use it is intended for My reasoning is based on the following: I am Roman, I was born in the city am 34 years old and live there today though I have lived much of my life in the UK. I am a restaurateur and chef and have an extensive knowledge of Italian cuisine as well as being trained in classical french, modern British, Chinese, Japanese and Thai. Italian regional cuisine is very ancient in its origins, many dishes that are eaten today in Rome on the tables of the ordinary citizens and in the Roman campagna (not the restaurants which barring a few exceptions are bastardized and atypical) bear a great resemblance to those eaten by the ordinary citizens of Rome two millennia ago. Certainly new ingredients have been added (most notably the tomato and chilli pepper) as they have been discovered over the centuries but the basic style of the food remains the same. The crux of the matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman cuisine as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would remain in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce and Nuoc mam being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east). The fact that Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living memory leads me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc mam or it would remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain, Greece and North Africa, it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have disappeared from all of these countries without trace. What does remain in all of these countries is an enormous production of anchovies and other ‘pesci azzurri’ (sardines, mackerel etc.). These are produced in canned form via salting and then packing with olive oil and sometimes herbs and also as pureed form in tubes for simplified use in cooking. Anchovies are used extensively in mediterranean cuisine to impart salty ‘sea’ flavour to food, they are sometimes used in stews and soups, often used in sautéed clams and other seafood, they are used in salad dressings and chopped in salads and on top of pizzas, wrapped around olives and capers, put on hard boiled eggs and so on and so on. As you can see they are very important today. It is my opinion that garum is the ancestor of the salted anchovy whether whole, filleted, pureed or in herbs; at some point production changed to a less liquefied product, possibly due to reduced production period, faster transport or maybe just a change in tastes. Anyway, that’s my opinion for what its worth, accept it or not its up to you.But I will tell you one thing, try sprinkling nuoc mam on a endive salad and then making one using the recipe I suggest below. Bet you never use the nuoc mam again. (remember when using it as a dressing to add a olive oil and wine vinegar plus pepper to taste.) Below is a recipe from Gargilius Martialis 3rd C AD as published in the excellent book “A Cena da Lucullo” by Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa (published in English as “A Taste of Ancient Rome”) plus a quick and clean variation that I have developed myself from a modern day Roman salad dressing. Garum (Gargilius Martialis 3C AD) Use fresh fatty fish e.g.. anchovies, sardines or mackerel. Dried aromatic herbs such as: dill, coriander, fennel, celery seed, mint, oregano and rosemary. Coarse sea salt Clean and wash the fish removing heads fins and guts if desired. (the guts impart a bitter flavour) Taking a large preserving or pickling jar (the wider the better) place a generous layer of herbs on the the bottom of the jar then place a layer of fish on the top (cutting the fish into sections if it is large) placing them fairly tightly packed. Over this add a layer of coarse sea salt (must be sea salt) about * inch thick! Repeat these three layers till you have filled the jar to the top. Let the container rest in the sun for seven days (this is the traditional way). Then mix the sauce daily for a further twenty days. After that time it becomes a liquid and can be filtered if necessary. Here is a quickish clean garum of my own: 6 tubes of anchovy paste, (or 12 small tins of anchovy fillets drained and liquidized) * teaspoon of each of the above herbs but fresh if possible. 1 clove of Garlic (crush it with the side of a knife) Pepper Good olive oil Wine vinegar Finely chop the herbs and place in a bowl. Add the anchovy paste, add the crushed garlic clove, ground black pepper (the quantity will dictate the ‘hotness’ of the garum) a little vinegar and the olive oil, mix well (in ablender if necessary) The resulting sauce should pour easily, if not add more oil or white wine if you like. Store in the fridge for a day before use and always shake well before adding to recipes. Use sparingly as it is salty and often replaces salt in recipes. Makes an excellent dressing for lettuce and rocket salads, the traditional Roman hors d’oeuvre and is used in Rome today to dress “puntarelle” a salad leaf from the dandelion family that has been eaten in and around Romefor more than 2,000 years.Enjoy! P.S. If you should keel over with food poisoning after trying the ancient recipe I deny any responsibility! :) Marco Berni Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:03:03 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Lilinah biti-Anat wrote: > Aislinn C. C. wrote: > >I have no idea if it is the same plant used by the Romans. Tannahill > >gives an intriguing process for making liquamen in her book. Would > >modern oyster sauce make a good substitute? Adamantius? > > I've never tasted actual Roman style liquamen, but have had various > fish sauces from around 4 different Southeast Asian countries. Definitely not modern oyster sauce. As it happens, I just happened to sample (one of the few things I was able to sample) actual garum/liquamen from Pliny's Historia Naturalis, and it was a light amber color, a bit like filtered apple juice, but with a more substantial mouth feel/body, and a definite anchovy taste. Yum! I ate mackerel guts! And liked it! The only harshness to it was in the saltiness, which is pretty much inevitable. If this was done right, it would seem to suggest that the fish is preserved from rotting by the salt, and broken down entirely by enzymatic action, unlike the processes that produce some of the Southeast Asian fish sauces, at least some of which involve lactic fermentation, as do things like sauerkraut. > I recommend Thai fish sauce (nam pla). Vietnamese fish sauce is a > decent second. I REALLY didn't like the taste of Philippino fish > sauce, nor of Chinese fish sauce. Personal taste. There are decent Philipino sauces, you need to watch for the ones that contain anchovies and salt, and avoid ones with vinegar, these are basically sauces that are artificially flavored to resemble the real thing. > But i should think, knowing how they and liquamen are made, at least > from reading books, that any of them would be closer to liquamen than > oyster sauce, since it isn't made from fish, and has all sorts of > other additives, whereas the Southeast Asian fish sauces are just > little fish and salt, like liquamen. Yep. Oyster sauce is oyster essence (reduced stock made from dried oysters), sugar, cornstarch, sometimes some caramel coloring, sometimes soy sauce. The best oyster sauces are the ones for which oysters or oyster essence are the first ingredient listed. Adamantius Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:44:14 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts ChannonM at aol.com wrote: > What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and > a thick lumpy brine is formed. This is then strained either finely or > coarsely depending on the use it is intended for According to Pliny (admittedly only one source) clear brine (hence the term liquamen) is siphoned off from the solids, which are used as an entirely different product called halec. > Italian regional cuisine is very ancient in its origins, many dishes that are > eaten today in Rome on the tables of the ordinary citizens and in the Roman > campagna (not the restaurants which barring a few exceptions are bastardized > and atypical) bear a great resemblance to those eaten by the ordinary > citizens of Rome two millennia ago. Certainly new ingredients have been > added (mostnotably the tomato and chilli pepper) as they have been discovered > over the > centuries but the basic style of the food remains the same. The crux of the > matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman > cuisine > as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would remain > in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce and Nuoc mam > being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east). The fact that > Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living memory leads > me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc mam or it would > remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain, Greece and North > Africa,it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have > disappeared from all of these countries without trace. Actually, it hasn't. One very halec-like paste that is very common in the south of France is pissalat. Another consideration is that as Rome is not really a seaport, it's unlikely a center of manufacture for garum would develop there. On the Mediterranean coastlines of what are now Spain, France, Italy and Greece, you'll find what seem to be remains of garum factories. I wonder if there was some kind of climactic or other shift in the migrations of some of the fish traditionally used in the manufacture of liquamen, which might explain why the fish so prepared seemed to be growing smaller over time, leading perhaps to the modern salted anchovy. Which, by the way, is not necessarily a moist product packed in oil, you can still find them in barrels in France, whole, dry, and packed in salt. Many recipes written before the 1960s have complete instructions on how to desalt and fillet anchovies. Other possibilities might include a dearth of garum-suitable fish, due to overfishing, and then there was this thing called the Fall of The Roman Empire. Modern citizens of Rome also don't speak Latin, wear togas, or demand that Carthage be destroyed. That doesn't mean they never did these things. This is simply an area where there's been sufficient change that a thread of cultural identity has been cut. Just as there are modern languages closer in pronunciation and form to Latin than modern Italian, there are other places that used to be part of the Roman world that probably have closer ties to the culture of ancient Rome than Rome itself now does, some even that have never been successively invaded and ruled by Visigoths, Lombards and Normans. Oh, my! One place, by the way, that garum appears to have survived into the early Middle Ages at least is Byzantium. There's a wonderfully plaintive passage in the writings of Luidprandt, Bishop of Cremona (vaguely Carolingian) concerning his treatment as a not-especially-welcome envoy to the Byzantine Court. He arrived to escort a Byzantine princess back north to wed the Holy Roman/Frankish emperor, and was, among other indignities, left standing outside the gates in the rain for several days. Finally he was allowed into the city, and was fed what may have been a typical Byzantine upper-class meal. He describes it as "...foul and stinking, soused in oil like some drunkard's slops, and the whole sprinkled with some vile fishy liquid." This would have been ~9th-10th centuries C.E. Adamantius Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:52:37 -0800 From: Lilinah biti-Anat Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Hauviette posted a long and interesting message: >Garum or liquamen to me is a much more substantial sauce than the fish sauces >so far mentioned, unless one of them is more substantial than the nuoc mam >sauce I have seen and tasted. I prefer to use anchovy paste... (snip) and she includes a message from Marco Bernini: >--I am probably going to ignite some controversy here but I do not agree that >Nuoc mam and garum are the same thing at all.Nuoc mam is basically a fish >based soy sauce originally made by fermenting anchovies in brine. Today it >is often made with concentrated extracts that arethen diluted, the resulting >sauce is very watery and quite like fishy soy sauce. Well, i have to disagree with Mr. Bernini's comment. Having lived in Southeast Asia and also eaten and cooked a great deal of Southeast Asian food in America, Southeast Asian fish sauces are not like "fishy soy sauce". They are made by heavily salting small fish, letting them stand from some time (i'm not sure for how long), then straining the resultant mess, errr, mass. The resultant liquid is fish sauce. There's no soy sauce in any i've had. And as far as i know, the process producing soy sauce is different from that producing fish sauce, although i could be under-informed... Mr. Bernini describes the process: >And at least some liquamen/garum recipes seem to indicate a similar >procedure. Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read, >it is alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood >depending on whoís description you read. This is then layered alternately >with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on whoís recipe >you use. The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is >commonly thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large >amount of salt present. >What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and >a thick lumpy brine is formed. This is then strained either finely or >coarsely depending on the use it is intended for What i'm not certain of is: how different is the liquid from this stuff, finely strained, is from fish sauce? How different is the process of producing Southeast Asian fish sauce from that of producing liquamen/garum? I've watched the beginnings of making some shrimp paste in an Indonesian village (strictly for local use), and it was basically layering tiny shrimp with salt and letting it stand, although i don't know if there was some sort of "starter" (along the lines of mother of vinegar, or yeast, or using yogurt to start a new batch) or something was introduced later in the process... as Mr. Bernini continues: >My reasoning is based on the following: >I am Roman, I was born in the city am 34 years old and live there today... (snip) >The crux of the >matter is this; if garum was indeed as essential an ingredient in Roman >cuisine as we are told by ancient texts then it is very likely that it would >remain in the Roman diet in some prominent form today (much as soy sauce >and Nuoc mam being very ancient still feature prominently in the far east). >The fact that Italy has no Nuoc mam type sauce today nor has it had in living >memory leads me to conclude that garum cannot have been a sauce like nuoc >mam or it would remain in use today; not just in Italy but in Spain, >Greece and >North Africa,it is simply impossible for such an important ingredient to have >disappeared from all of these countries without trace. Well, i don't agree with him here. After reading enough old cookbooks, it seems to me that some things have disappeared from cuisines, while new things have become popular. I don't think it can be assumed that if something was important in the Roman Empire it would necessarily survive virtually unchanged for 1500 years. Maybe it did, but it seems to me highly likely that time did not stand still even in isolated Italian country villages. However, i like anchovies on my pizza and in my Caesar salad (yeah, I know, not Italian). And I have no objection to anchovy paste. So if anchovy paste is like liquamen/garum, I can live with that. So, Master Adamantius, since you've tasted a liquamen made the old Roman way, how different is it from fish sauce? How different from liquified anchovy paste? Would a blend of the two in any way approximate it, or would that be far too different? (I don't think I'm ready to keep a jar of fish and salt layered in my kitchen, although possibly some day...) Anahita Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:06:04 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Re: Apicius site, some thoughts Lilinah biti-Anat wrote: > Well, i have to disagree with Mr. Bernini's comment. Having lived in > Southeast Asia and also eaten and cooked a great deal of Southeast > Asian food in America, Southeast Asian fish sauces are not like > "fishy soy sauce". They are made by heavily salting small fish, > letting them stand from some time (i'm not sure for how long), then > straining the resultant mess, errr, mass. The resultant liquid is > fish sauce. There's no soy sauce in any i've had. And as far as i > know, the process producing soy sauce is different from that > producing fish sauce, although i could be under-informed... The process is different, to say the least. Soybeans are boiled, drained, mashed and formed into cakes, which are then left in a dark place to grow a particular mold (as you mention in another context, a starter may be added) in a process pretty similar to that used for making sake. The mold-converted cakes are then steeped several times to produce different grades of soy sauce, and some people eat the leftover cakes, which are believed to be the cause of the extremely high rate of stomach cancer in populations where soy sauce is made locally. Never mind that so many Asians, even now, are chain smokers. But this is also, I believe, the source of Charles Perry's theory that murri may be a carcinogen, or contain carcinogens, because soy sauce is far, far more like murri than like Asian fish sauce. > Mr. Bernini describes the process: > >And at least some liquamen/garum recipes seem to indicate a similar > >procedure. Garum or liquamen has many recipes according to who you read, > >it is alternately made from whole fish, fish livers or fish guts and blood > >depending on whoís description you read. This is then layered alternately > >with lots of salt and herbs of various sorts again depending on whoís recipe > >you use. So, any claims anybody may make about garum are bound to be mostly inaccurate because they won't apply across the board, while any statements that _I_ may make, on the other hand, are accurate because of common factors like salt...according to whose recipe you use? I don't mean to wrong the man, but this seems a little too pat. > > The container is then sealed and left to macerate NOT ROT as is > >commonly thought, it is impossible for the contents to rot due to the large > >amount of salt present. > >What happens is that the fish liquefy over time as the coarse salt melts and > >a thick lumpy brine is formed. And this is due not to the salt, either, but to the presence of enzymes in great amounts in the fish entrails, and to a lesser extent in the muscle itself (Some Philipino versions of bagoong, I think it's called, are made with gutted fish: they'd likely be the source of the idea that these sauces are supposed to be sour as well as salty and fishy). > What i'm not certain of is: how different is the liquid from this > stuff, finely strained, is from fish sauce? How different is the > process of producing Southeast Asian fish sauce from that of > producing liquamen/garum? According to some authorities, not much, provided there's enough salt to prevent lactic fermentation, which does occur in some Asian fish sauces, but not in all. > I've watched the beginnings of making some shrimp paste in an > Indonesian village (strictly for local use), and it was basically > layering tiny shrimp with salt and letting it stand, although i don't > know if there was some sort of "starter" (along the lines of mother > of vinegar, or yeast, or using yogurt to start a new batch) or > something was introduced later in the process... No starter, AFAIK. I've seen this shrimp paste in jars in my neighborhood, in several forms, some made from dried shrimp, producing a mysterious purplish paste, others grey or nearly white, depending on differences in the process according to different regional traditions. > After reading enough old > cookbooks, it seems to me that some things have disappeared from > cuisines, while new things have become popular. I don't think it can > be assumed that if something was important in the Roman Empire it > would necessarily survive virtually unchanged for 1500 years. Maybe > it did, but it seems to me highly likely that time did not stand > still even in isolated Italian country villages. Ya think? ; ) As I said, the toga, real Latin, and a dislike for Certain North African Empires comes to mind as social factors that have simply become extinct. I'm sure there are other culinary examples that come to mind: certain of the wine preparations, for example, the habit of boiling and pureeing vegetables only to thicken them again into custards, probably the extensive use of pennyroyal. I'm sure there are others. > However, i like anchovies on my pizza and in my Caesar salad (yeah, i > know, not Italian). Mexican or Italian descent, however. > And i have no objection to anchovy paste. So if > anchovy paste is like liquamen/garum, i can live with that. > > So, Master Adamantius, since you've tasted a liquamen made the old > Roman way, how different is it from fish sauce? How different from > liquified anchovy paste? Would a blend of the two in any way > approximate it, or would that be far too different? Real garum seems to taste pretty close to anchovy paste, but the color and texture aren't even close, and the aroma of either is actually rather mild compared to what you might expect. I guess it would depend on your use. What I tasted was a clear yellowish-to-amber liquid, with a body or "mouth feel" like ale; it's as if it had a high enough specific gravity you could taste it -- it's a bit heavier than the SE Asian fish sauces I'm familiar with. A slight oiliness, but not much -- I assume this is natural fish oil. Garum was always thought to be an extremely healthy food product, provided you're not a tunny or a mackerel... . It definitely tasted of anchovies, and then so did the nam pla that was placed alongside it for comparison, but they weren't the same. I think perhaps the trace of oil was missing from the nam pla. Maybe if one were to blenderize a can of anchovies in oil in nam pla or another non-vinegar-based fish sauce, then let the solids settle out, that'd be a closer approximation. I'm also a bit surprised that some of the "quick" boiled versions haven't been experimented with more. I think it's what Flower and Rosenbaum used for their various trials of Roman recipes. Adamantius Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:39:53 -0600 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - Lady Seaton's Project At 12:22 PM -0500 3/18/00, Elaine Koogler wrote: >One other pitfall is the fact that recipes, particularly in Apicius >and Platina, >as well as other sources, call for liquamen or "garum". As this is a type of >fish sauce, it cannot be consumed by vegetarians. So far as I know, Apicius is the only period cookbook that calls for this ingredient. Platina, at least the translation Mallinkdrodt published (I haven't checked the new translation), refers to liquamen but describes it in a way that makes it clear it is an entirely different ingredient--not fish sauce but (I think) pork fat, or something similar. And Apicius, while "period" in the literal sense, is dubiously appropriate to SCA feasts, given how early it is. Do you know of any post-roman cookbooks that use garum? David Friedman ddfr at best.com http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:10:07 EST From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: garum in Anthimus << Do you know of any post-roman cookbooks that use garum? >> In Mark Grant's On the Observance of Foods, a 6th Century letter to the King of the Franks, fish sauce is metioned, sometimes Anthimus discourages it's use, sometimes encouraging it. However, I do not have the original latin in order to verify whether the word is garum or fish sauce per se. Thomas, any thoughts? Hauviette Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:56:54 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: SC - garum in Anthimus & Capitulare de villis <<... whether the word is garum or fish sauce per se >> In one place (Anthimus #9 De porco domestico), the word is _liquamen_, a younger word, according to Andre in use since the 1st century, meaning the same as _garum_: "nam _liquamen_ ex omni parte prohibimus", 'we forbid the use of liquamen [in preparing porcus domesticus] totally'. The second place, already mentioned by Adamantius too, is recipe #34 with something like _egrogarium_, according to Karl Mras a late Latin form of "hygrogarium", 'garum with water'. More important seems a passage in the Capitulare de Villis (about 800), where is stated that garum (and other stuff) must be produced _carefully_, _diligently_: "34. Omnino praevivendum est cum omni diligentia, ut quicquid manibus laboraverint aut fecerint, id est lardum, siccamen, sulcia, niusaltus, vinum, acetum, moratum, vinum, coctum, GARUM, sinape, formaticum, butirum, bracios, cervisas, medum, mel, ceram, farinam, omnia cum summo nitore sint facta vel parata". (Source: Boretius, A., ed., Capitularia regum francorum, Tomus primus, Hannoverae 1883, p. 86). Thomas Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:53:28 EDT From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Liquamen question mermayde at juno.com writes: << In a pan greased with butter or liquamen, In reading this line from the Armored Turnips recipe, I have to wonder about the greasy quality of liquamen. I was not given to understand that it was an oily sauce, more of a dark brown fermented fish sauce. Is there sufficient oil in liquamen to make a grease substitute, or is the reference talking about either greasing the pan or coating it with liquamen? Christianna pondering the finer points of rotted fish >> I'm sure others will fill in if my memory is faulty here, but from prior discussions of this I think I recall that we are dealing with a change in definition over the years. Apicius did indeed mean a fish sauce when he used the term "liquamen", but by the time we get to Platina, the term had come to mean "fat", probably lard or similar animal fats. So, with that knowledge the usage makes perfect sense! ;-) It's just confusing when you read the word in various different manuscripts separated by the centuries.......... Ldy Diana Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:23:53 -0400 From: Gaylin Subject: SC - Garum and Piscinae So this book I've picked up because of my addiction. To books, that is. Found it on remainder and just *had* to buy it. You know how you get that feeling sometimes? The one that says "I know this is absolutely necessary, but I don't know why"? That's why I bought it. Here's the book: Higginbotham, James. (1997). Piscinae: Artificial Fishponds in Roman Italy. Chapel Hill, NC: The University of North Carolina Press. ISBN: 0-8078-2329-5 [Ed. Note: I got this on remainder from Edward R. Hamilton Booksellers for about 14$US. You might be able to find it cheaper elsewhere.] As I was reading along this morning, I discovered something that people here might find interesting about garum production, including some references that I don't believe anyone has mentioned before. This is going to be a long one, so stay with me and accept my forgiveness for the cross-posting. In the introduction, while discussing the modern scholarship done on ancient piscinae (fishponds) Higginbottom writes: "Since Jacono [Ed.: Luigi Jacono's study on Naples seaside ruins of piscinae], the study of Roman pisciculture has progressed along several paths. The ancient fishing industry, involving the manufacture and trade of processed fish products such as garum, has received the lion's share of attention (5). These studies have focused on tanks and complexes in Spain, southern France, and North Africa. Though garum production certainly took place in Italy, the bulk of this trade emanated from the western provinces (6)". [page 2] Here are the footnotes associated with the text, in which I've separated out each reference to make it easier to read. I think many of you will find these interesting: (5) M. Ponsich and M. Tarradell, _Garum et industries antiques de salaison dans la MÈditerranÈe occidentale_ (Pariis 1965); O. Da Veiga Ferreira, "Algunas consideracoes sobre as fabricas de conservas de peixed antiquidade encontradas em Portugal, " _Archivo de Beja_ 23-24 (1966-67) 123-34; R. Sanquer and P. Galliou, "Garum, sel et salaisons en Armorique gallo-romaine," _Gallia_ 30 (1972) 199-223; R.I. Curtis, _Garum and Salsamenta: Production and Commerce in Materia Medica_ (Leiden 1991); J. C. Edmondson, _Two Industries in Roman Lusitania: Mining and Garum Production, BAR International Series, 362 (Oxford 1987); M. Ponsich, _Asceite de oliva y salazones de pescado: Factores geo-econÛmicos de BÈtica y Tingitania_ (Madrid 1988). (6) For evidence of Italian production, see R. I. Curtis, "A. Umbricius Scaurus of Pompeii, " in _Studia Pompeiana et Classica in Honor of Wilhelmina F. Jashemski 1_ (New Rochelle, N.Y. 1988) 19-49, and _Garum and Salsameta_ (ibid.) 85-96. Fish sauce production is hypothesized at Cosa on the basis of rather tenuous evidence; see A. M. McCann, J. Bourgeois, E. K. Gazda, J. P. Oleson, and E. L. Will, _The Roman Port and Fishery of Cosa_ (Princeton 1987) 340-41. In his chapter on "Fishponds as Emblems of Social Status", the author also writes: There was, however, great profit in the production of preserved fish and processed fish products. According to the literary record, several sites in Italy were known for the production of garum, liquamen, allec, muria, and other processed fish products. (6) And again the footnote: (6) _RE_ 8 (1912) 841-49, s.v. Garum (R. Zahn): P. Grimal and T. Monod, "Sur le vÈritable nature du 'garum,'" _REA_ 54 (1952) 27-38; C. Jardin "Garum et sauces de poisson de l'antiguitÈ," _RStlig 27 (1961) 70-96; T. H. Corcoran, "Roman Fish Sauces," _CJ_ 58 (1963) 204-10; R.I. Curtis, "In Defense of Garum," CJ 78 (1983) 232-40; R.I. Curtis, "Salted Fish Products in Ancient Medicine," _Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences_ 39 (1984) 430-35; R.I. Curtis, _Garum and Salsamenta: Production and Commerce in Materia Medica_ (Leiden 1991). The abbreviations of note: RStLig is "Rivista di studi liguri"; CJ is "Classical Journal"; and RE is A. Pauly and G. Wissowa's "Real- Encyclop‰die de klassishen Altertumswissenschaft". My apologies for the bandwidth, again, but I'm certain at least someone will find some use in these references considering the debate that regularly occurs about acceptable substitutes for garum and liquamen in the recipes we research. If you need copies of this information from the book itself, let me know and we'll work something out. Jasmine Iasmin "Yes, I'm Addicted" de Cordoba, iasmin at home.com AOL AIM: IasminDeCordoba PS: Typos are most likely my own, especially on the non-English articles. Also, apologies to those of you who get a little garbage in the message from the accents and umlauts. Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:00:15 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - fish (OP) Stefan li Rous wrote: > Thanks, folks. Before hearing the descriptions and comments on 'fish > sauce' here, I doubt I would have considered this dish. I also have a > bottle or two of fish sauce here at home that I bought when exploring > some of the Asian groceries here in town. What kind of fish sauce did you buy? Nam pla, nuoc mam, patis, what? I think nuoc mam is the mildest, and I've found that patis is about the closest to the garum I tasted at the A&S event we did a while back, but it is quite... aromatic, when heated You might want to cook with it when your lady wife is out ; ) . When I used patis in an Anthimus recipe workshop, I turned my back for a minute and some bounder let off some kind of fish-packed stink bomb on site. It was enough to put one off one's patis. Adamantius Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:07:13 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: -cran wine/vinegar... XvLoverCrimvX at aol.com wrote: > Anyone know what kind of yeast you put in wine to ferment it. And if you > ferment garum or liquamen, does it have a alcoholic tendency or do you put in > a certain kind of yeast for that? > > Misha The fermentation in fish sauce is lactobacillic, accomplished by bacteria more akin to acidophilus than to yeasts. The fermentation is secondary, though, to the enzymes from the fish entrails digesting the fish guts and flesh. Ever eat a shrimp that had a sort of nasty, pasty, creamy texture? Same principle. When shrimp are stored for too long at the wrong temperature, the enzymes in their digestive tracts begin to break down the flesh. In the case of Roman and most Asian fish sauces, the presence of large amounts of salt actually prevents much of the fermentation that would otherwise occur. There is no alcohol production worth speaking of, because there is no yeast activity worth speaking of, and presumably precious little sugar, either. Fish sauce isn't actively cultured/pitched/innoculated at all, although it's possible that the wooden vats involved may have absorbed some souring lactobacilli which go dormant between uses, as with certain cheeses (most, actually), ales, etc. I will try, eventually, to get to posting the recipes from the Geoponica, for the "fermented" and the quick or boiled versions of garum. I would think the fact that a quick, boiled version exists for immediate use would preclude much in the way of souring in the "fermented" product, assuming they are supposed to be interchangable as far as usage goes. I mean, artificial vanilla, for example, should not taste like chocolate or there'd be no point. It should taste, at least to some recognizable extent, like vanilla. [And the first person who tells me vanillin is an aromatic and not a flavoring gets a smack for wasting everybody's time nitpicking. Kok ni ga haw!] My point is that if an unfermented version could, in theory, pass for the fermented stuff, the fermented stuff probably wasn't very fermented. "Fermented", though, is a bit of a sore point for me; people simply refuse to abandon use of the term in connection with things like fish sauce, various preserved duck eggs, etc., because they want, deep down, to misrepresent foods as more grotesque than they actually are. Adamantius From: "Amanda Poirier" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Two batches of Garum (for anyone here who knows) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 13:02:34 GMT "Robert Uhl" wrote > "JE Anderson" writes: > > May I ask for the recipe and where you found it? This is something I > > would love to try making myself. > > ISTR that the Florilegium has a recipe. It goes something like: get a > cask; line the bottom with salt, then alternate layers of fish and salt > until the cask is full, finishing with a layer of salt; set aside for a > long while; when the cask is full of liquid and has cast a sediment, the > garum is ready. The garum is the liquid; the sediment has, to my > knowledge, no use other than as fertiliser. > > Food preservation is _cool_. The Lord's Salt preserved roast beef for > six weeks (one week of which was in 100+ temperatures in Missouri), and > prob. would have longer, had I not finished it off. Right now I've > pickled lemons & limes in my pantry, and I've onions & garlics pickling > as well. And I cannot wait to try the meat pies which last at least a > fortnight. Keeping meat, unrefrigerated, on one's counter for weeks is > coolness itself. > > I am _perhaps_ just a bit of a geek on the subject:-) > -- > Robert Uhl Basically what I am doing is just that, however not haveing much sun over here, I have been using low oven temperature on and off with the oven light as a sun source to help "ferment" the fish. The fish I used for my first batch was a mixture of just about everything I could find... the second batch was just Mackerel, sardines and anchovies (mostly mackerel). Notes: it did not juice up well until I made sure to get some really nice bloody fish to the "stew" (that's what it looked like after a while) though I avoided guts you will need blood to help it along. You should use sea salt, I've tried both coarse and regular (both with no additives) and they did not seem to make a difference in the end. Do not be tempted to water the stuff down for more liquid... it will be weaker fo course, but will not keep long at all. I used a bit of water to soak the salt residue off of a pan... let it sit for about two days and it smelled terrible and quickly developed a scum. This also shows how a high salt level in the liquid is necessary, this liquid had quite a bit of salt yet it went bad fairly quickly. When I salted my fish for the garum, I added enough salt to cover the surface of the fish in each layer... after the liquid started however I did stir it occasionally and checked for non salty spots though few and far between. Hope it helps! Griet MMm preserved lemons... did you salt them or use some other method? Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:59:46 +0200 From: Volker Bach Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ancient Roman cookery To: Cooks within the SCA Am Donnerstag, 29. September 2005 15:52 schrieb Aurelia Coritana: > I decided it really was about time for me to officially speak up on > this list! I am Aurelia Coritana in Ansteorra, a 1st c. Roman-Brit. > > My culinary interests are ancient Roman recipes (with fresh ingredients, of > course, har har.) Does anyone else out there experiment with ancient > cookery? If you've ever made anything with garum, I'd love to hear > from you. > > Aurelia Me, I did. Regularly do. Not that being 'pre-period' is regarded highly in central Drachenwald, but my secondary persona, Titus Flavius T.f. Artemidorus is something of a gourmet. I find that garum is a matter of quality and quantity. If you are using Philippine 'bagoong balayam' as your substitute (barely filtered stuff, grey-brown and opaque, quite nasty) it goes only with savoury fish or meat dishes, and even then it usually 'tastes through' more delicate flavours. I only use it in dishes with plenty of onions and/or garlic. A good (filtered, liquid, brownish-red) Nuoc Mam or Nam Pla, on the other hand, harmonises with almost any dish. I used a dash of it instead of the obligatory pinch of salt with a honeyed pear patina, and eveybody praised it highly (unawares. Nobody ever eats anything they know contains garum...) Have you ever managed to get a Roman feast served? They're dead against it in my Shire. Giano Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:51:37 +0000 From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ancient Roman cookery To: Cooks within the SCA I have done some Roman recipes from Cato and Apicius...and in a couple I used what i believe is a garum/liquamen equivalent...Nam Pla, or fish sauce, from Viet Nam, etc. The descriptions I have read regarding garum seem to fit what nam pla is, so that's why I chose to use it. I just haven't the "stomach" or whatever to try to make my own. The dishes I used it in were mostly vegetable dishes...and the flavor of the fish sauce seemed to enhance the veggies' flavor. Otherwise it was so innocuous that I forgot on once occasion that I had used it and was taken to task (kindly, I might add) for representing it as a vegetarian dish! Kiri Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:49:25 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ancient Roman cookery To: Cooks within the SCA On Sep 29, 2005, at 10:51 AM, ekoogler1 at comcast.net wrote: > I have done some Roman recipes from Cato and Apicius...and in a > couple I used what i believe is a garum/liquamen equivalent...Nam > Pla, or fish sauce, from Viet Nam, etc. The descriptions I have > read regarding garum seem to fit what nam pla is, so that's why I > chose to use it. I just haven't the "stomach" or whatever to try > to make my own. The dishes I used it in were mostly vegetable > dishes...and the flavor of the fish sauce seemed to enhance the > veggies' flavor. Otherwise it was so innocuous that I forgot on > once occasion that I had used it and was taken to task (kindly, I > might add) for representing it as a vegetarian dish! > > Kiri I like the Philippino "patis" fish sauce, myself, as it's more of a salty, fishy richness, without either vinegar or that lactic-acid tang (that the added vinegar is an attempt to reproduce, when it is there) that some other SE Asian fish sauces have. I figure that the quick, faux garum mentioned, I think, somewhere in the Geoponica, is a boiled and strained fish, salt, and seasonings, and is mentioned as being ready for immediate use, so I get the sense that no lactic sourness would be achieved. And if it's not in the imitation, my suspicion is that it is likely not in the original, either, or there would surely be some quick way of approximating it, if that aspect were desired. I've used it in several dishes, both Apician and from Anthimus (and I sneak it into curries a lot, too). My experience has been that it reeks to high heaven for a few minutes after you add it to a hot pan, but mellows considerably as it cooks. Used raw or cold, the smell is not overpowering. Adamantius Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:55:43 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Garum was To 10 pantry items To: "Cooks within the SCA" I've doing a little housecleaning and a xerox copy of "Garum and Salsamenta" has popped to the surface. If anyone is serious about learning about garum, I recommend reading it. Curtis, Robert I., Garum and Salsamenta; E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1991. Bear Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:51:12 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Garum was To 10 pantry items To: Cooks within the SCA On Aug 5, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Terry Decker wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Kusz" > >> huh....and no one included that roman fish sauce....:)))) >> (garum? liquamen? whatever.) >> >> Of course, everyone I've heard mention it has said it's >> concentrated evil, but, well....... > > And how do they know it's concentrated evil? I don't think I've ever met > anyone who has made garum, much less eaten it. Modern fish sauces, yes. > Garum no. I recall being specifically sought out by a friend of mine who had a friend who had made the quick-boiled "fake" liquamen, and found it so entirely inoffensive in nature that he then went and did the actual fish-entrails (or maybe it was whole, small fish) in a vat in the August sun, to see of there was any serious difference between the two. Interestingly enough, there wasn't. Both tasted like an ever-so- slightly oregano-flavored Filipino patis: a clear (light amber), thin, strong, very salty fish-broth with a slight oily sheen to its surface. I know there are some Asian fish sauces that are lacto-fermented, and some that are made with anchovies and vinegar, but this didn't resemble them very much. Adamantius Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:04:44 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantry - garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Garum is being reproduced in Spain > today. If I recall correctly it comes from Barcelona. I don't know how > close is it is to what the 13th C Anon cookbook calls for. It tastes like > bad anchovies to me. > Terry continues: > "There is also the fact that garum probably wouldn't be available to most > medieval pantries as it became generally unavailable in the 5th and 6th > Centuries. . ." > No my understanding is that we continued our factories in Spain long after > that. Perhaps you can inform me better but I have garum references up > through the 18th C. > Suey Please note, I said, "generally unavailable." Fish sauces have never completely gone away around the Mediterranean but the use has been limited and localized. The commercial trade in garum collapsed approximately with the end of the Western Empire making garum unavailable to much of Europe. Thus it would likely not be found normally in a medieval pantry. After the 6th Century, references to garum need to be carefully considered as some of these references are copied from earlier sources. On the otherhand, the commercial garum industry in Spain has at least a six century history under the Roman Empire and a later Spanish source might be contemporary with actual production of garum. Bear Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:14:39 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantry - garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Suey wrote: >> Garum is being reproduced in Spain today. If I recall correctly it comes >> from Barcelona. I don't know how close is it is to what the 13th C Anon >> cookbook calls for. It tastes like bad anchovies to me. > > 13th c. Anon? > -- > Adele de Maisieres 13th C. Anonymous Andalusian cookbook, AKA Kitab al-tabikh fi al-Maghrib wal-Andalus . You can find the webbed version of the Charles Perry translation of the translation by Miranda on David Friedman's site here: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Andalusian/ andalusian_contents.htm Bear Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:33:14 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantry - garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" >> 13th C. Anonymous Andalusian cookbook, AKA Kitab al-tabikh fi al- >> Maghrib wal-Andalus . > > Ah. Yes. That's what I thought. It's been a while since I read > it, but I don't recall that it mentions garum at all. > > Adele de Maisieres There are references to "fish murri" in the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook, but I don't think there is a recipe available. Fish murri is often considered to be garum or liquamen by assuming that it is a fermented fish sauce as murri is a fermented barley sauce. While this may be a reasonable assumption, there is, to my knowledge, no solid evidence to incontrovertably support the idea. I don't remember seeing references to fish murri outside of the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook, which may mean that the Andalusian Arabs took Spanish garum into their cooking. I will add that my knowledge of Arab cuisine is limited, so someone else may have better information. Howsa dat for hedging the bet. Bear Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:52:16 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Murri and muria was pantry - garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" Here's a question for you: What is the etymology of the word "murri?" We have recipes for murri and Byzantine murri. We have references to murri naqi and fish murri. But do we have any idea from where the word derives? Now, let me do some pure speculation. According to Curtis, Roman fish sauces come in four forms; garum, allec, liquamen and muria. Garum is the liquid decanted from a couple of months of salted, fermenting fish. Allec is the residue left after the garum is removed. Liquamen seems to be a suace leeched from fermenting fish (apparently similar to modern fish sauces like Worchestershire). And muria is a somewhat broadly defined term to refer to salt solutions extracted from or used to preserve meats, fruits and vegetables. All of these sauces were used and made around the entire Mediterranean, up into the Black Sea and far south down the Nile. I think it is highly possible that "murri" is an Arabic form of the Roman (of Greek origin) "muria" brought into Arabic well before the Islamic expansion. That being said, I haven't seen any evidence to tie the two to each other. I also can't think of a way to prove or disprove my theory. Anyone got any ideas? Bear > Terry Decker wrote: > >> There are references to "fish murri" in the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook, >> but I don't think there is a recipe available. Fish murri is often >> considered to be garum or liquamen by assuming that it is a fermented fish >> sauce as murri is a fermented barley sauce. While this may be a reasonable >> assumption, there is, to my knowledge, no solid evidence to >> incontrovertably support the idea. > > Cripes, I _had_ to look it up. I could only find one reference to > "fish murri". > -- > Adele de Maisieres Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 01:02:11 -0400 From: Suey Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantry - garum To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Terry Decker wrote: > There are references to "fish murri" in the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook, > but I don't think there is a recipe available. Fish murri is often > considered to be garum or liquamen by assuming that it is a fermented fish > sauce as murri is a fermented barley sauce. That is correct. As per Carlos Azcoytia in his article "History and Mythical Evolution of Garum" http://www.historiacocina.com/historia/articulos/garum.htm garum was consumed in Spain until the middle of the 15th Century at least. Abu Bakr Abd al Aziz Arbulo wrote a treaty in Almeria titled "Murri al hut" between 1414 and 1425. Azcoytia has found that is was consumed in a region called Bitinia, today in Turkey until 1917 at least. He says that he does not believe that what is sold today as "garum" is like the original product. He explains that it was very costly as the process is so complicated that only the affluent could afford it. Further, Azcoytia points out that original recipes would be practically impossible to make garum today for the requirements of fermentation, ventilation and the hours that the mixture must be exposed to the sun. Finally he notes that probably we wouldn't like it. Antonio Gazquez refutes this in his article 'Garum: the sauce of Roman Empire' saying that it is still being made in a town formally called Baelo Claudia (Bolonia today) near Tarifa in the province of Cadiz, Spain: http://www.afuegolento.com/noticias/80/firmas/agazquez/3073/ That must be sold locally as I cannot find it for sale on internet. My references continue up to the end of the 18th C. Then bread garums were made in the shape of a tablet. Grain based garums continue to be made. These are the result of the 13 C Afro-Andalusian creation of innumerable wheat based mixtures which today are called by the Swiss: Cenovis, the English: Marmite or the Spanish: /Bovil/ and bouillons or bullion cubes (which originated from recycling fermented brewer?s yeast). Translators of Arab manuscripts, however, currently advise the use of nuoc-man,/ /soy sauce or Worchestershire sauce to substitute fish garum in medieval recipes. I have checked with el Corte Ingles a major supermarket chain in Spain to see if I can buy garum but apparently what I tried was only sold as a promotion on Leonese food a few years ago when a friend found it and made me try it (sorry not Barcelona as I previously stated)! Their garum basically is a black olive and anchovy spread also sold in other regions of Spain today. By the way garum originated in Greece. The word comes from garos, a fish that was extinct before the Romans made conquests in Iberia. After garum spread to Italy, the Romans established major garum factories in Spain between Cartagena and Huelva. In Spain it was made with tuna and other fish (and their entrails) found in the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. They did begin to die out with the fall of the Roman Empire but not entirely as seen above. Suey Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:57:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Volker Bach Subject: [Sca-cooks] Garum To: sca-cooks > Garum was mentioned in one of the first Time Life > cookbooks, the one on Italy. I think it even had > instructions on how to make. The same book also > had a ricotta cheese cake, claimed to be a very > early Italian recipe. Do you by any chance recall where the recipe was from? There are garum-.like sauces still made today, but the only historical recipe I know is from the Geoponica. The ricotta cake could well have been Cato's 'placenta'. If it was - it's well worth making. Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:59:43 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" There are descriptions of the process for making garum in Manilius' Astronomica, and texts attributed to Gargilius Martialis (3rd Century) and Rufus Festus (4th Century). The latter two texts may actually be medieval texts attributed to the authors rather than written by them. Bear ----- Original Message ----- From: "Volker Bach" Do you by any chance recall where the recipe was from? There are garum-.like sauces still made today, but the only historical recipe I know is from the Geoponica. Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 00:40:33 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantry - garum To: "Cooks within the SCA" In Latin usage (as far as I can determine), garum is a specific item, a fish sauce. That means a grain-based sauce is not a garum. The grain-based sauce would fall under the more general term of muria. If the term garum is being used to refer to a grain-based sauce in 18th Century Spain, then it is not a Roman sauce, but a Spanish sauce. While garum might be for the affluent, I'm of the opinion that there were varying grades with the high end made from tuna and mackeral and a low end from catfish and carp with the high end garum being infused with spices and wine to make it even finer and more costly. Spain alone had at least 39 commercial fish salting operations (which includes garum manufacture) and about another hundred scattered from northern Europe and around the western Mediterranean. About another hundred were located in the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea and along the Nile. Seneca (1st Century) commented on the costliness of garum. Pliny (1st Century) commented that two congrii (approx. 1.5 gal.) sold for 1000 sesterces (or about 6000 sesterces per amphora). A tariff schedule from the early 3rd Century places a tariff of 1 sestertius on an amphora, which if the tariff rate for Spanish wine at 2.5% reported by Columella holds true, means that a six gallon amphora would sell for about 40 sesterces. In the early 4th Century, Diocletian set the price of liquamen primus at 16 denarii and liquamen secundus at 12 denarii per sextus (roughly a pint). If I've done the calculations correctly, this would make an amphora of the best fish sauce worth 4608 sesterces. According to one source, the price set by Diolcetian is roughly equivalent to that on must and honey, suggesting it should be within the range of the average Roman. It is my understanding that the "garos" or "garus," from which garum was originally made, is not identifiable from the ancient texts, thus determining whether or not it has gone extinct would be impossible. And if you want to bring Barcelona into the mix, try Ausonius's Epistles (4th Century Bordeaux) where he thanks a student for "some Barcelona sauce called muria" and goes on to comment on garum. Bear Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 05:23:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: [Sca-cooks] Interesting Garum article in the latest Petits Propos Culinaires To: Cooks within the SCA Issure 83 of PPC just arrived in my mailbox! Yippee!!! Starting on page 93 there is an interesting article by Sally Grainger, called "A New Approach to Roman Fish Sauce". How apropos to our current discussion of garum! Also in this issue are articles by Francois Soyer, "Dining at King's College in the Fifteenth Century" and by Constance B. Hieatt and Brenda M. Hosington, "Recipes for 'Turnsole' in Sloane MS 122." Huette Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:38:16 -0500 From: "Elise Fleming" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interesting Garum article in the latest Petits Propos Culinaires To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" Suey asks: > I do not receive this magazine and the article does not seem to be > online yet but I would be very interested to know if she defines the > differences between garum, liguamen and murri there or in her book which > I am also lacking as well a international library loan at this time. > From what I see of her work she is quite particular in saying they are > not the same but am becoming confused between these terms and the > definitions I have. She expresses the same confusion and indicates that there was confusion in period as well. She mentions some differences in certain texts where blood products are called by one word and the fish which have been liquified from the inside out as another word. It also appears that some forms were used in the kitchen while others were mixed at the table. Since the article is a number of pages long, it's too difficult to summarize, and there is no one clear definition for any of the sauces. You might consider purchasing this issue from the publisher. I don't think the journal has ever been online. Alys Katharine Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:52:25 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Geoponica garum recipe was Re: Garum and cheesecak To: "Cooks within the SCA" > What is this "Geoponica"? Do you have a copy of this historical garum > recipe? > > Stefan Geoponica is a 10th Century Greek agricultural manual which may derive from a 6th Century Latin text. A translation of Geoponica 20.46:1-6 can be found in Curtis, Robert I., Garum and Salsamenta; E.J. Brill, 1991, pg 12-13. To quote the text: "1. The so-called liquamen is made in this manner: the intestines of fish are thrown into a vessel and salted. Small fish, either the best smelt, or small mullets, or sprats, or wolffish, or whatever is deemed to be small, are all salted together and, shaken frequently, are fermented in the sun. 2. After it has been reduced in the heat, garum is obtained from it in this way: a large, strong basket is placed into the vessel of the aforementioned fish, and the garum streams into the basket. In this way, the so-called liquamen is strained through the basket when it is taken up. The remaining refuse is alex. 3. The Bythinians prepare it in this manner: it is best if you take small or large sprats, but if not, wolffish, or horse-mackeral, or mackeral, or even alica, and a mixture of all, and throw these into a baker's kneading trough, in which they are accustomed to knead meal. Tossing into the modius of fish two Italian sextarii of salt, mix up thoroughly in order to strengthen it with salt. After leaving it alone for one night throw it into a vessel and palce it without a lid in the sun for two or three months, agitating it with a shaft at intervals. Next take it, cover it, and store it away. 4. Some add to one sextarius of fish, two sextarii of old wine. 5. Next, if you wish to use the garum immediately, that is to say not ferment it in the sun, but to boil it, you do it this way. When the brine has been tested, so that an egg having been thrown in floats (if it sinks, it is not sufficiently salty), and throwing the fish into the brine in a newly-made earthenware pot and adding in some oregano, you place it on a sufficient fire until it is boiled, that is until it begins to reduce a little. Some throw in boiled down must. Next, throwing the cooled liquid into a filter you toss it a second and third time through the filter until it turns out clear. After having covered it, store it away. 6. The best garum, the so-called haimation, is made in this way: the intestines of tunny along with the gills, juice and blood are taken and sufficient salt is sprinkled on. After having left it alone in the vessel for two month at most, pierce the vessel and the garum, called haimation, is withdrawn." Three other texts (which I don't have available) describe the process of preparing garum; (Marcus?) Manilius's Astronomica and texts attributed to Gargilius Martialis and Rufus Festus. Curtis warns that Martialis may contain medieval intrusions and that the recipe attributed to Festus is obviously of medieval date. Bear Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:10:36 -0400 From: "Elaine Koogler" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Could this actually be Garum? To: "Cooks within the SCA" Sounds like it...though I suspect that the Vietnamese fish sauce is a good substitute as well...and it's a whole lot cheaper and more easily acquired! Kiri On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Barbara Benson wrote: <<< I found this while browsing: http://www.zingermans.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=P-COL Thoughts? -- Serena da Riva >>> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 22:53:13 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Could this actually be Garum? To: "Cooks within the SCA" <<< I found this while browsing: http://www.zingermans.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=P-COL Thoughts? -- Serena da Riva >>> "...all salted fish were included under the word salsamenta. Manufacturers did not waste any part of the fish, but used everything, such as the tail, stomach, neck or head. The innards, gills, and any other parts normally considered refuse also had a use; these were made into fish sauce. The Romans produced four different sauces: garum, liquamen, allec and muria. Garum was the primary product, while allec (Pl 1b), the sediment created in making garum, was of secondary importance. The Roman penchant for using the terms liquamen and muria imprecisely renders illusive a firm understanding of these products. The former term, which probably designated a sauce distinct from garum, acquired before the fifth century A.D. almost generic value for any fish sauce, while the latter was a word sometimes used to mean garum and at other times to signify the liquid used in making garum or in packing salted fish products in vessels for transport." Curtis, Robert I., Garum and Salsamenta, production and commerce in materia medica; E.J. Brill, Leiden, The Netherlands, 1991, pg. 7. "The appearance of ancient sauces is unknown, although the carmelized residue of what was probably garum has been found in a Roman saltery at Plomarc'h in Western Gaul and the bones of small fish found in the dolia in Pompeii may be the dessicative remains of allec (PL 1b). From this and from numerous epigraphical and literary references one can postulate that ancient garum was a clear liquid; allec, the residue, was no doubt a mushy paste-like substance containing fish bones and other undissolved fish material. Exactly what liquamen was remains unclear. When viewed as a product distinct from garum, its appearance most likely resembled that of garum, but as a liquid it was probably weaker in salinity and color. Muria, the solution resulting from salting fish, was probably similar to that of liquamen." Curtis, Robert I., Garum and Salsamenta, production and commerce in materia medica; E.J. Brill, Leiden, The Netherlands, 1991, pg. 14. From these comments, I would say that the product they are calling garum, made from brining anchovies is definitely muria and possibly liquamen, but probably not true Roman garum. Bear Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:39:48 -0400 From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Could this actually be Garum? To: Cooks within the SCA <<< I found this while browsing: http://www.zingermans.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=P-COL Thoughts? >>> The product is labeled "Garum Colatura Oil", in other words its not pure garum, but mixed with oil. "One bottle is enough to season over a dozen dishes of pasta or vegetables." A bottle of garum would go much farther than that, I think. Which makes the $20 a bottle, even more of a rip off. Ranvaig Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:35:27 -0400 From: Sandra Kisner Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Garum and Pompeii's Destruction To: Cooks within the SCA <<< Found this on the internet: "Sept. 29, 2008 -- Remains of rotten fish entrails have helped establish the precise dating of Pompeii's destruction, according to Italian researchers who have analyzed the town's last batch of garum, a pungent, fish-based seasoning." You can read the article at: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/29/pompeii-fish-sauce.html . There's a description of making garum in the article as well. Alys Katharine >>> There's also a link to an article on another website that actually seems to know what garum is, instead of wondering why people would eat smelly rotten fish guts. Sandra Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 17:16:40 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "What Did the Romans Eat?" <<< Anybody know how accurate this is? It does mention garum (et al), and while not *too* disparaging (it says they are nutritious), it does refer to allec as "sludge." http://madefrom.com/history/antiquity/roman-diet/ Sandra >>> Accurate enough as far as it goes. More problematic to me is the use of "corn" apparently as a specific grain (maize, presumably, although in this context it could be the general being attached to the most common specific, either barley or emmer). According to Curtis (Curtis, Robert I., Garum and Salsamenta; E.J.Brill, Leiden, 1991.), Roman fish sauces come in four forms; garum, allec, liquamen and muria. Garum is the liquid decanted from a couple of months of salted, fermenting fish. Allec is the residue left after the garum is removed. Liquamen seems to be a sauce leeched from fermenting fish (apparently similar to modern fish sauces like Worchestershire). And muria is a somewhat broadly defined term to refer to salt solutions extracted from or used to preserve meats, fruits and vegetables. All of these sauces were used and made around the entire Mediterranean, up into the Black Sea and far south down the Nile. Bear Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:50:54 -0400 From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salting watermelons chefchristy at kingstaste.com writes: <<< Fish sauce on melons is delicious. I serve a cheater-version of liquamen at Roman Feasts and put it on cantaloupe and honeydew. I think it is better on honeydew, and no different from salting melon slices. >>> Ah. True enough. I suppose one could say similar things about a lot of uses for garum (I've read that it was considered a cheap substitute for salt, though given that garum itself could get pretty pricey, I have my doubts). And it's medieval too; it was still being imported in the early Middle Ages and Charlemagne had something by that name made on his estates (whatever it really was). Jim Chevallier Edited by Mark S. Harris garum-msg Page 33 of 33