camelne-sauce-msg - 11/22/18
Period sauces having cinnamon as a major component. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: cinnamon-msg, fruits-msg, broths-msg, sauces-msg, dairy-prod-msg, almond-milk-msg, vinegar-msg, verjuice-msg, garum-msg, mustard-msg, Mustard-art.
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From: "James L. Matterer" <jmattere at weir.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:45:42 -0700
Subject: SC - Cameline Meat Brewet
Greetings,
In response to Derdriu's & Willem's request for a posting of A
Cameline Meat Brewet, here it is.
Looking over the recipe, I think it might be fun to substitute red
wine for the water in the Cameline Sauce. I've never tried it, but I
think I'll have to now that I've thought of it. If anyone makes this
dish, please let me know what you think!
Master Ian
<snip of brewet recipe>
Cameline Sauce
"Pound ginger, plenty of cinnamon, cardamon, mace, long pepper if you
wish, then squeeze out bread soaked in vinegar and strain it all
together and salt it just right." - Le Viandier de Taillevent, from
Food in History, p. 219.
Unlike many sauces, this one is unboiled as per the description in Le
Viandier de Taillevent, p. 219: "Cameline sauce has cinnamon as its
predominant ingredient and is unboiled." Le Viandier also advises us
that not all sauces contained binding agents (p. 23-24). Bearing that in
mind, the bread crumbs have been left out of this version of the recipe.
1 c. each cider vinegar and water
1/2 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 tsp. each of ginger, cloves, mace, cardamon, pepper, and salt
Combine liquids, add spices and mix thoroughly with a wire whisk. Taste
for seasonings and adjust accordingly. Use immediately or refrigerate
for later use.
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:45:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Cameline Meat Brewet
Ian writes:
> Unlike many sauces, this one is unboiled as per the description in Le
> Viandier de Taillevent, p. 219: "Cameline sauce has cinnamon as its
> predominant ingredient and is unboiled." Le Viandier also advises us
> that not all sauces contained binding agents (p. 23-24). Bearing that in
> mind, the bread crumbs have been left out of this version of the recipe.
Perhaps in Viandier, but for the Catalan feast we served three months
ago we used a cooked, breadcrumb-thickened "salsa camelina" based on a
mixture of beef broth and pomegranate juice! It was deliciously
different.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:43:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Cameline Sauce
Lasairfhiona writes:
> Could I possibly beg that recipe from you? I have a couple quarts of
> pomegranate juice, and no idea what to make of it (aside from wine, but that
> would be too easy...)
The recipe is #109 in _Libre del Coch_. Here's our translation:
109 Cameline Sauce
Take two or three pomegranates and strain them all through a piece of
clean linen. And when they are strained, press them well in such
manner that the juice [hisca] well. And afterwards take a bit of
toasted bread and soak it in the aforementioned juice. And afterwards
take a good quantity of ground cinnamon and put it with the bread. And
afterwards grind it well in a morter. And when it is ground up, temper
it up with good broth and the juice of the aforementioned pomegranates
and vinegar which isn't too strong . And after that it goes on the
fire to boil, stirring all the time, until it is thick, but put in the
pot before it boils a lump of fine sugar. And it's done.
Our first redaction turned into Cameline Glue; the following has fewer
breadcrumbs, and works well in both flavor and texture.
1/4 cup breadcrumbs (from toasted whole wheat bread)
3/4 cup pomegranate juice
1/4 cup beef broth
2 T wine vinegar
1 T cinnamon
1 tsp white sugar
As I recall, we did this redaction, scaled up by a factor of ten or
so, alongside the roast beef in the feast. We also served a "salsa
allipebrada", or garlic-and-pepper sauce, which actually I think had
been redacted years earlier from a French recipe entitled "sauce
aliper".
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:55:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Sauces and Humors
Lionardo Acquistapace wrote:
> ... I must say that a
> Camaline Sauce can be fairly varied in flavor based on the type of
> wine, verjuice, vinegar, etc. and the amounts of spices and such you
> use.
We were quite excited to find a cooked cameline sauce in one of the
medieval Catalan cookbooks that's based on pomegranate juice. So I
walked around the corner to the kosher grocery, picked up a quart bottle
of pomegranate juice.... We served this with roast beef in a feast last
February, quite successfully.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:31:39 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sauce recipe for lamb shanks
"Artemis of St. Malachy" wrote:
> Thank you all for the recipe suggestions. If someone would like to post the
> recipe for the cameline sauce that would be great.
This is a nice version; it's the only one that seems to contain fruit;
the others are all, to some extent, like prepared mustard made with
cinnamon instead of mustard seed. For this reason, in spite of the fact
that this source (The Forme of Cury, ~1390 C.E.) is somewhat later than
the dates you specified, I thought this would be the best for your needs.
"149. Sawse camelyne. Take raysons of coraunce & kyrnels of notys &
crustes of brede & powdour of gynger, clowes, flour of canel; bray it
wel togyder and do (th)erto salt. Temper it vp with vyneger, and serue
it forth."
Or, in other words,
Sauce cameline: Take dried currants and shelled nuts [probably walnuts,
maybe hazelnuts], crusts of bread, powdered ginger, powdered cloves, and
ground cinnamon, and pulverize it all together [in a mortar] and add
salt. Mix it til smooth with vinegar and serve.
I don't have a worked-out recipe with quantities and such, but I figure
approximately equal quantities of currants and nutmeats would be about
right, with about half as much of the heel of, say, a whole wheat loaf,
as of either the nuts or the currants. Cinnamon should definitely
predominate among the spices, with just touches of ginger and clove, and
a mild vinegar like malt, sherry or white wine vinegar to your own taste
and preferred consistency. Salt to taste. I wouldn't serve this
immediately, in spite of the recipe. I'd give it an hour or two at least
to sit before serving, and mix it well at the last minute before dishing
it up.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:16:06 EDT
From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sauce recipe for lamb shanks
"Artemis of St. Malachy" <lek01 at uow.edu.au> writes:
>Thank you all for the recipe suggestions. If someone would like to
>post the recipe for the cameline sauce that would be great.
Enjoy
Korrin S. DaArdain
Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.
Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cameline Sauce (French, 14th c.)
Goodman p. 286/25
From Cariadoc's Miscellany, Copyright © by David Friedman, 1988,
1990, 1992.
Note that at Tourney to make cameline they bray ginger, cinnamon
and saffron and half a nutmeg moistened with wine, then take it out of
the mortar; then have white bread crumbs, not toasted but moistened in
cold water and brayed in the mortar, moisten them with wine and strain
them, then boil all together and put in brown sugar last of all; and that
is winter cameline. And in summer they do the same but it is not boiled.
Sweet spicy Sweet & spicy
ginger 1 t 1 t 1 t
cinnamon 1 t 1 t 1 t
saffron medium pinch for all 3
nutmeg 1 whole 1/2 whl 1/2 whle
wine 2 T 1/2 c 1/2 c
bread crumbs 3 T 2 T 2 T
brown sugar 2 T 1 t 1 T
cold water 2 c 1 c 1 c
Grind smoothly until well ground, add bread crumbs, grind smooth,
add water and wine, bring it to a boil, simmer until thickened and add
the brown sugar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cameline Meat Brewet & Sauce
From The Goodman of Paris. Posted by Master Huen / James L.
Matterer (jmattere at weir.net)
This cold meat dish comes from a reference in The Goodman of
Paris, which lists a Parisian feast of 1393 where there was served "a
cameline meat brewet - pieces of meat in a thin cinnamon sauce." Although
it is not known exactly how this particular dish was prepared, this
recipe is an approximation of how such a meat brewet may have been
created. Curye on Inglish describes two cold brewets, one without meat
(p. 128) and one with (p. 129).
2 lbs. beef, sliced into thin strips
1 tsp. butter
1 tsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
Meat butter in pan, add meat and seasonings and saute until done.
Drain well and let cool. Place meat in a sealable container and add
Cameline Sauce to cover. Refrigerate for several days, agitating
container once a day. Remone from marinade and serve cold or at room
temperature. Serves 4 - 8.
------------------------------
Cameline Sauce
"Pound ginger, plenty of cinnamon, cardamon, mace, long pepper if
you wish, then squeeze out bread soaked in vinegar and strain it all
together and salt it just right." - Le Viandier de Taillevent, from Food
in History, p. 219.
Unlike many sauces, this one is unboiled as per the description
in Le Viandier de Taillevent, p. 219: "Cameline sauce has cinnamon as its
predominant ingredient and is unboiled." Le Viandier also advises us that
not all sauces contained binding agents (p. 23-24). Bearing that in mind,
the bread crumbs have been left out of this version of the recipe.
1 c. each cider vinegar and water
1/2 tsp. cinnamon
1/4 tsp. each of ginger, cloves, mace, cardamon, pepper, and salt
Combine liquids, add spices and mix thoroughly with a wire whisk.
Taste for seasonings and adjust accordingly. Use immediately or
refrigerate for later use.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:54:33 EDT
From: ChannonM at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Sauce recipe for lamb shanks
I thought I'd peek my head in and offer a recipe from Le Menagier.
Cameline Sauce
In addition to mustard, cameline sauce is a common recipe found in “Le
Viander de Taillevent”(1380), “Le Menagier de Paris”(1393), “The Forme of
Cury, A Roll of Ancient English Cookery (1390). This condiment is used to
accompany cooked meats and poultry and has a poignant taste reminiscent of
modern day “steak sauce”. The following is an exerp from “Le Menagier de
Taillevent”;
Note that at Tournay to make cameline they bray ginger, cinnamon and saffron
and half a nutmeg moistened with wine, then take it out of the mortar, then
have white breadcrumbs, not toasted but moistened them with wine strain them,
then boil all together and put brown sugar last of all and that is winter
cameline. And in summer they do the same, but it is not boiled.
And in truth, to my taste, the winter sort is good but in (summer) that which
followeth is far better, bray a little ginger and a great deal of cinnamon,
then take it out and have toasted bread moistened, or plenty of bread
raspings in vinegar, brayed and strained.
I have taken some liberty in combining two aspects of the above recipe.
Firstly, I have used the boiling method and use of wine of the first recipe,
and secondly I utilized the spice content of the latter recipe. I have also
canned the end product using modern methods, with excellent results.
In practice
1tsp ground ginger 2 tbsp verjuice or lemon juice
3tsp ground cinnamon 1 tbsp cider vinegar
1/3 cup white wine 1/4 cup white bread crumbs
3 tbsp brown sugar(packed)
Mix all ingredients. Strain the mixture through a fine seive, pressing down
with a spoon to extract as much of the liquid as possible. Boil the liquid
about 5 minutes. You can now can the sauce or use it immediately
Hauviette
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:56:52 EDT
From: Elysant at aol.com
Subject: SC - Cameline Sauce
Several people have asked that I put the recipe for the Cameline Sauce that I
made at Pennsic on the list. So here it is. :-) Sorry to be a "spoon tease"
;-).
The recipe was from Le Viandier de Taillevant, translation by Elizabeth Bennett.
It is to be found in Cariadoc's second volume of Medieval and Rennaissance
Cookbooks (Seventh Edition).
When I actually made the sauce, I was working straight from the text itself,
and did not have time to write anything down, so the amounts quoted in the
recipe below are as I remember them. Also, please know that I was making an
amount of sauce for a small side dish, which perhaps would have been
sufficient for about 4 people in my estimation.
Elysant
"UNBOILED SAUCES AND HOW ONE MAKES THEM.
TO MAKE CAMELINE SAUCE. Take ginger, cinnamon, and a lot of cloves, grains
of paradise, mastic, long pepper if you like; then soak bread in vinegar, and
take it out, and salt to taste."
Recipe
1/4 teaspoon ginger
1/4 teaspoon cinnamon
3/4 teaspoon cloves (whole)
1/2 teaspoon grains of paradise
1/4 teaspoon mastic
2 medium long peppers
1/4 cup fine breadcrumbs
1 cup red wine vinegar
salt to taste
Grind all spices with a mortar and pestle. Empty the spices into a bowl, and
add the breadcrumbs and vinegar. Stir. Let the sauce mixture sit for about
5 minutes, then pour it through a sieve into a second bowl, working the
bread/spice mixture as much as possible through the sieve with the back of a
spoon in a firm stroking motion (be sure to add the sieved mixture from the
underside of the sieve to the sauce in the bowl). To finish the recipe,
taste the sauce, and add salt as needed.
Notes: - The fine breadcrumbs were prepared from a dried white bread loaf.
- The finished sauce was added to Ras's recipe for diced Lamb's
Testicles just before the dish was served.
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:50:03 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Cameline sauce from the 'Vivendier'
Here is another recipe for cameline sauce from Terence Scully's edition
of the 'Vivendier', a 15th century French cookery text, edited from a
manuscript now in the Gesamthochschul-Bibliothek Kassel (publ. with
Prospect books, 1997; not the same as the 'Viandier'!).
"Pour faire une saulse cameline: prenez pain blancq harlé sur le greil,
sy le mettez temprer en vin rouge et vin aigre, passé parmy l'estamine,
canelle assez, et gingembre, clou, graine, macis, poivre long et saffren
un poy et sel; faictez boullir ou non boullir comme vouldrez; aucun y
mettent du chucquere." (Scully, Vivendier, 1997, p. 35).
'To make a Cameline Sauce. Get white bread toasted on the grill, set it
to temper in red wine and vinegar, and strain it, along with a good deal
of cinnamon, and ginger, cloves, grains of paradise, mace, long pepper
and a little saffron. Finish it off either boiled or not as you like.
Some people put sugar in it." (Translation T. Scully p. 35; follow some
comments).
If you need a 'redaction', look at Flandrin & Lambert, Fêtes gourmandes
au Moyen Âge, p. 94.
Thomas
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:11:56 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cameline sauce from the 'Vivendier'
Thomas Gloning wrote:
> "Pour faire une saulse cameline: prenez pain blancq harlé sur le greil,
> sy le mettez temprer en vin rouge et vin aigre, passé parmy l'estamine,
> canelle assez, et gingembre, clou, graine, macis, poivre long et saffren
> un poy et sel; faictez boullir ou non boullir comme vouldrez; aucun y
> mettent du chucquere." (Scully, Vivendier, 1997, p. 35).
>
> 'To make a Cameline Sauce. Get white bread toasted on the grill, set it
> to temper in red wine and vinegar, and strain it, along with a good deal
> of cinnamon, and ginger, cloves, grains of paradise, mace, long pepper
> and a little saffron. Finish it off either boiled or not as you like.
> Some people put sugar in it." (Translation T. Scully p. 35; follow some
> comments).
This recipe is actually fairly similar to the one in the earlier
Viandier, as previously posted. It's worth noting, however, that Scully,
in _his_ translation of le Viandier, notes the reference to mastic in
one of the manuscripts, and the several references to mace in the same
recipe in other manuscripts, and concludes, rightly or wrongly, that a
scribe misspelled or misread "macis" as "mastic". I'm not prepared to
say, "This is definitely how it is," but it seems fairly plausible that
mace is intended, rather than mastic. Maybe the scribe was just really
a man, or lady, of taste, and decided that mastic would be better.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:40:50 -0500
From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>
Subject: SC - Cameline Sauce from the Vivendier
Adamantius wrote:
<<< This recipe is actually fairly similar to the one in the earlier
Viandier, as previously posted. >>>
Thanks for pointing to this recipe. I missed that. The recipe, given in
the earlier post, seems to be a translation of #155 in the VAT- or the
BN-Version (the manuscripts now in the Biblioth_$BoR_(Jue Nationale and
the Vatican): 'Cameline Sauce. Pound ginger, plenty of cinnamon, cardamon,
mace [=BN], long pepper if you wish, then squeeze out bread soaked in
vinegar and strain it [=VAT] all together and salt it just right. (Le
Viandier de Taillevent, from Food in History, p. 219).'
<<< It's worth noting, however, that Scully, in _his_ translation of le
Viandier, notes the reference to mastic in one of the manuscripts, and
the several references to mace in the same recipe in other manuscripts,
>>>
In case we are both speaking about #155: four of the five manuscripts
only have the passage with _macis/mastic_: three of them have _mastic_,
only one of them has _macis_: the manuscript in the BN. In the oldest
version, the Valais manuscript, this part of the recipe lacks.
<<< and concludes, rightly or wrongly, that a scribe misspelled or
misread "macis" as "mastic". >>>
The evidence indicating an error (and not the work of a gourmand), he
mentions, is, that the dictionaries show only medical uses of mastic,
that mastic is "extremely rare in mediaeval European cooking" (p. 220 n.
3), and that an error was easily possible because of many variant
spellings. Thus: "Its presence [i.e. of mastic] in the _Viandier_
remains doubtful". "Doubtful", this is a cautious conclusion. Anyway,
the translation has "mace".
Scully's notes point to several other recipes for a cameline sauce (e.g.
Harpestraeng, (J Magninus, Libre del coch). It is a
pleasure to work with such a rich edition!
Cheers,
Thomas
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:19:36 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cameline sauce from the 'Vivendier'
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Adamantius notes:
> > Maybe the scribe was just really
> > a man, or lady, of taste, and decided that mastic would be better.
>
> Does this mean that you have tried the recipe both ways, with mastic,
> and with mace instead of mastic, and decided that you prefer the
> version with mastic?
No, I haven't tried it with mastic. I've tried it with mace, though,
I've eaten mastic in other foods, and suspect I'd prefer the version
with mace. I was joking, somewhat, and acknowledging that the sauce made
with mastic might be perfectly good. We have seen good evidence that it was.
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:20:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Sauces
> >Any other sauces that anyone would recommend with pork? We'll be
> >roasting it with garlic and not much else - it was scrumptious last
> >year under a different Kitchen Steward, who's now out of the country.
When we ran the taste-test for the sauces we used in the dayboard I just
did, we found that all the sauces were good with pork. However, the ones
we liked best with it were the green sauce, the Tournai cameline, the
black (pepper) sauce, and the black grape sauce (best of all! it has that
sweet/sour thing going).
Recipes and redactions follow.
- -------
Black Sauce: (3x)
<snip - See the file sauces-msg. - Stefan>
- -----
Black-Grape Sauce
<snip - See the file sauces-msg. - Stefan>
- ----
Tournai-style Cameline sauce (3x)
Original: "Cameline. Note that at Tournai, to make cameline they pound
ginger, cinnamon, saffron, and half a nutmeg, moistened with wine then
removed from the mortar, then take crumb of white bread, without grilling
it, soaked in cold water and pounded in the mortar, moisten with wine and
strain; then boil everything, and finish with brown sugar; this is a
winter cameline. (Le Menagier de Paris 230, translated in The Medieval
Kitchen, Redon et al.)"
3 slice bread
1 nutmeg
24 threads saffron
3 tsp ground ginger
4 1/2 tsp cinnamon
3 3/4 c. white wine
3/4 c brown (turbinado) sugar
Grate your nutmeg into the mortar. Add cinnamon and saffron and grind
together with ginger. Add the white wine. Strain, then bring to a boil
and add sugar. Cook until thin sauce consistency.
- ---
Tournai-style Cameline sauce (3x)
Original: "Cameline. Note that at Tournai, to make cameline they pound
ginger, cinnamon, saffron, and half a nutmeg, moistened with wine then
removed from the mortar, then take crumb of white bread, without grilling
it, soaked in cold water and pounded in the mortar, moisten with wine and
strain; then boil everything, and finish with brown sugar; this is a
winter cameline. (Le Menagier de Paris 230, translated in The Medieval
Kitchen, Redon et al.)"
3 slice bread
1 nutmeg
24 threads saffron
3 tsp ground ginger
4 1/2 tsp cinnamon
3 3/4 c. white wine
3/4 c brown (turbinado) sugar
Grate your nutmeg into the mortar. Add cinnamon and saffron and grind
together with ginger. Add the white wine. Strain, then bring to a boil
and add sugar. Cook until thin sauce consistency.
--
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:22:07 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dansk kogebog A: haerrae salsae (was: SC - On topic)
On 17 Apr 01,, UlfR wrote:
> I recently got my hands on a (borrowed) copy of Veirups "Til taffel hos Kong
> Valdemar" (Systime A/S, Viborg, Denmark, 1994). This is supposedly the
> oldest surviving European cookbook (dated to 1300). Any comments?
>
> In particular I'm looking at the camelina recipie (though it calles it
> "hÊrrÊ salsÊ" -- "lords sauce" -- it is to my mind pretty clearly a
> camelina). Apart from the usual camelina spices (cloves, nutmeg, pepper,
> cinnamon, and ginger) it also has cardamons. Has anyone seen that in any
> other camelina recipie?
The Catalan "Libre de Sent Sovi" has a recipe, not for cameline sauce, but for "Polvora de Duch". It contains 1/2 oz. cinnamon, 3/4 oz. ginger, and 1/4 oz. total of cloves, nutmeg, galingale, and cardamon. This is mixed with a pound of sugar. It is the only mention of cardamon in that cookbook.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:26:41 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
Because of questions on other SCA cooking lists, i began collecting
recipes for Cameline Sauces and Green / Verte Sauces. So far i have
15 Cameline sauces and 15 Green/Verde/Vert sauces (a real favorite of
mine) plus 1 basil sauce and 2 sorrel sauces. The recipes are from
three centuries (14-16) and in English, French, Italian, Spanish...
and German green sauce.
However, i have not found a Cameline sauce in the German language,
perhaps only because of my bad German. Since cinnamon is used in
German language recipes, i thought there ought to be one, or at least
a Cameline analog.
Does anyone know of such a cinnamon based meat sauce in medieval German?
--
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:27:10 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
-------- Original Message --------
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Date: Sun, May 15, 2011 3:26 pm
However, i have not found a Cameline sauce in the German language,
perhaps only because of my bad German. Since cinnamon is used in
German language recipes, i thought there ought to be one, or at least
a Cameline analog.
Does anyone know of such a cinnamon based meat sauce in medieval German?
----------
I didn't find anything in the books I have access to. Mind you, for
Germanic languages I need to rely on the translations of others.
The closest one I found was this Danish recipe:
XCII - A good sauce for steak (roast). Take finely chopped almond. Give
thereto grated simle and grate it fine and small together. Make it up
with wine and give to it ground cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg. Make it sweet
or sour as it suits yourself, and put it out with the roast. [Koge Bog
(Denmark, 1616)]
- Doc
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:06:21 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
I suspect there are more English. We had 8 each in the Concordance.
Hieatt listed another each in her volume A Gathering. That would make 9
apiece.
Add in the 16th century and there's bound to be a maybe a few more.
Johnnae
On May 15, 2011, at 3:26 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
<<< Because of questions on other SCA cooking lists, i began collecting
recipes for Cameline Sauces and Green / Verte Sauces. So far i have
15 Cameline sauces and 15 Green/Verde/Vert sauces (a real favorite
of mine) plus 1 basil sauce and 2 sorrel sauces. The recipes are
from three centuries (14-16) and in English, French, Italian,
Spanish... and German green sauce. >>>
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:12:37 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
To my knowledge, which is not comprehensive, German sauce recipes tend to
use cinnamon and ginger in combination, thus not producing sauces that can
be clearly labeled cameline or jance. If not used with ginger, cinnamon is
usually mixed with some combination of sugar, nutmeg, mace, cloves, or
cardamom.
Bear
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Euriol of Lothian <euriol at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
This recipe comes from the Northern Cookery Book (which I believe one of the manuscripts was written in German)
Original Recipe:
Recip VI
Quomodo temperetur salsum
dominorum et quamdiu durat.
Man skal tak? g?rf?rs naghl?, oc
Muscat, cardemomum, pip?r, cinamomum th?t ?r kani?l, oc ingif?r, all? i?fn
w?ghn?, tho swa at kani?l ?r ?m myk?t sum all? hin? andr?; oc slyk tu stekt
br?th sum all? hin? andr?, oc st?t? them all? sam?, oc mal? m?th st?k ?dyk? oc
lat? I en l?gh?l. Th?t ?r h?rr? sals?, oc ?r goth et halft aar.
English Translation:
Recipe VI
How to prepare a sauce for the
lords and how long it lasts.
One takes cloves and nutmeg,
cardamon, pepper, cinnamon "that is canel" and ginger, all in equal amounts,
except that there should be as much canel as all the other spices; and add
twice as much toasted bread as of everything else, and grind them all together,
and blend with strong vinegar, and place it in a cask. This is a lordly sauce,
and it is good for half a year.
Grewe, Rudolf &
Constance B. Hieatt ed. trans. 2001. Libellus
de arte coquinaria: An Early Northern Cookery Book. Tempe, Arizona.
Medieval and Renaissance Texts and Studies.
Euriol
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:17:12 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
Euriol wrote:
<<< This recipe comes from the Northern Cookery Book (which I believe
one of the manuscripts was written in German)
Original Recipe:
Recip VI. Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum et quamdiu durat. Man
skal tak? g?rf?rs naghl?, oc Muscat, cardemomum, pip?r, cinamomum
th?t ?r kani?l, oc ingif?r, all? i?fn w?ghn?, tho swa at kani?l ?r
?m myk?t sum all? hin? andr?; oc slyk tu stekt br?th sum all? hin?
andr?, oc st?t? them all? sam?, oc mal? m?th st?k ?dyk? oc lat? I en
l?gh?l. Th?t ?r h?rr? sals?, oc ?r goth et halft aar.
English Translation:
Recipe VI. How to prepare a sauce for the lords and how long it
lasts. One takes cloves and nutmeg, cardamon, pepper, cinnamon ?
that is canel ? and ginger, all in equal amounts, except that there
should be as much canel as all the other spices; and add twice as
much toasted bread as of everything else, and grind them all
together, and blend with strong vinegar, and place it in a cask.
This is a lordly sauce, and it is good for half a year.
Grewe, Rudolf & Constance B. Hieatt ed. trans. 2001. Libellus de
arte coquinaria: An Early Northern Cookery Book. Tempe, Arizona.
Medieval and Renaissance Texts and Studies. >>>
Thank you for this! I don't own this cookbook. Armed with recipe's
beginning, I found the original on Doc's site.
Since there are many special characters in the original, which did
not come through in the Digest, here is the recipe with the (?)
replaced with variations on the characters. I replaced the letter
"ash", which is ae joined, with a&e; and I used /o to replace o with
a slash through it, the letter "oo".
Recipe VI [K6]. Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum et quamdiu durat.
Man skal takae g/orfaers naghlae, oc muscat, cardemomum, pipaer,
cinamomum thaet aer kaniael, oc ingifaer, allae iaefn waeghnae, tho
swa at kaniael aer ae, mykaet sum allae hinae andrae; oc slyk to
stekt br/oth sum allae hinae andrae, oc st/otae them allae samae, oc
malae maeth staerk aedykae oc latae i en laeghael. Thaet aer haerrae
salsae, oc aer goth et halft aar.
--
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:34:18 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
Eduardo wrote:
<<< If you post the list we might all be able to add to your list.
What is the criteria for the sauces? Does it have to be in the
title? Does it have to have certain components?
Let everyone know so we can crowd source (cook) your sauces >>>
I confess my "standards" are low... I mean loose... I mean
open-minded, but not so open that my brain will fall out:
I started looking for sauces with variations on the name Green Sauce
and Cameline. As I read sauce recipes, I noticed a number that had
pretty much the same ingredients as those with the explicit names,
but with different names or no specific name, e.g. the sauce for
roasts in the anonymous Tuscan.
Here are the Green and Cameline sauces and variations I have found so
far... still hunting...
---------------------
20 GREEN SAUCES and Variations
Medieval green sauces seem to me to be less comparable to modern
pesto (which includes cheese and nuts) and more comparable to modern
Argentine chimichurri sauce - which is made with parsley -- and
sometimes cilantro or oregano or basil -- olive oil, wine vinegar,
garlic, salt, pepper... and smoked paprika or dried chili powder.
<snip - see green-sauces-msg -Stefan>
---------------------
15 CAMELINE SAUCES and Variations
Is this name *really* based on "camel", as seems to be the general
assumption? I wonder if perhaps it derived from "Caneline", i.e.,
based on canel/cannel, a word for cinnamon, the primary spice in most
recipes for this sauce, with a shift from "n" to "m".
(1) Tractatus de modo preparandi et condiendi omnia cibaria #394 -
France, early 14th c. - 11. Salsa camelina
(2) Le Viandier de Taillevent, 1380 [France] - 152. Cameline [Uncooked]
(3) The Forme of Cury, 1390 [Middle English] - 149. Sawse camelyne
(4) Le Menagier de Paris, 1393 [Northern France] - [Winter - cooked]
(5) ibid - - - - - [Summer - uncooked]
(6) Anonymous Tuscan cookbook, late 14th-early 15th C. [Italy] - [93]
Cenamata - Cinnamon sauce [Cooked]
(7) Anonymous Venetian cookbook, late 14th-early 15th C. [Venetian
region],IX. Carmeline sauce for capon [Cooked]
(8) ibid - - - - - LXVII. Perfect strong sauce [Uncooked]
(9) ibid - - - - - XCI. The best carmeline sauce [Uncooked]
(10) Vivendier, France, 15th c. [Cooked -or- Uncooked] - a cameline sauce
(11) Libro de Arte Coquinaria, Maestro Martino of Como, Italy, 1470 -
[Uncooked] Sapor camellino
(12) The Neapolitan recipe collection, Italy, 15th c. (T. Scully,
trans.) - [Uncooked] Cameline Sauce
(13) Libre del Coch, Maestre Robert, in Catalan in 1520, and Libro de
Cozina, Ruperto de Nola, in Spanish in 1525. (Translated by Brighid
ni Chiarain) - Cameline Sauce [Cooked] (with pomegranates)
(14) ibid - - - - - White Cameline Sauce [Cooked] (with almond milk)
(15) ibid - - - - - Bastard Cameline Sauce [Cooked]
---------------------
I confess that i (a) started out using Doc's Medieval Cookery site
and (b) haven't fully plumbed the depths of Stefan's Florilegium,
although i dipped into it. I am certain there are more related
recipes. There are several cookbooks i haven't looked into, such as
Martino and 16th c. (and very early 17th c.) English cookbooks. And i
don't own *every* published source. So i am most appreciative of
pointers to additional recipes.
--
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:56:49 -0600
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Saucy Thoughts
Ouverture, 1604, has ten specific sauces which include cinnamon.
- for roasted cow's udder.
- for a veal subtlety.
- for dogfish pasties.
- for roasted sturgeon.
- for roasted dogfish.
- for tuna.
- for leg of mutton subtlety.
- for roasted calf's liver.
- for a veal subtlety.
- for duck.
I have not analyzed how many of these might reasonably be considered
to be versions of Cameline.
I hadn't previously realized quite how much cinnamon Casteau must
have used. In 194 recipes the word 'cinnamon' appears 102 times!
Thorvald
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:08:45 -0400
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
I always think of cameline sauce as being made with cinnamon, but these
statutes for sauce makers define it as using cinnamon, ginger, clove, and grain of paradise, along with bread and vinegar.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k62574137/f469.item
I'd also never heard of genet sauce, which was made with ginger and
almonds.
jC
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:17:41 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
Most of the cameline recipes I've seen call for a number of spices.
Du fait de cuisine: cinnamon, ginger, grains of paradise, cloves, pepper, mace, nutmeg
Le Menagier de Paris: ginger, cinnamon, saffron, nutmeg
Le Viandier de Taillevent: ginger, cinnamon, grains of paradise, mastic thyme, long pepper
Libre del Coch: cinnamon
Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books: cinnamon, ginger, cloves
Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books: cinnamon, ginger, cloves, saffron
Liber cure cocorum: cinnamon, ginger, cloves
Forme of Cury: cinnamon, ginger, cloves
A Noble Boke off Cookry: cinnamon, ginger, powder lombard, mustard, saffron
Due Libri di Cucina: cloves, ginger, grains of paradise, nutmeg, cinnamon
Neapolitan recipe collection: cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg
I've heard of genet sauce before but can't find any recipes on a quick search. Could it be another name for a jance sauce?
Garlic Jance [Sauce]. Crush ginger, garlic and almonds, steep in good verjuice, [and boil]. (BN manuscript, p. 34.) [Le Viandier de Taillevent (France, ca. 1380 - James Prescott, trans.)]
- Doc
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:36:13 -0400
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
That's a useful inventory. Thanks.
I suspect at some point I read that cinnamon was the defining ingredient for cameline (as it appears to be) and got it in my head that that was all that was in there.
In this case, I suppose we can take the stated combination as the
"official" one, at least as far as the Paris authorities were concerned.
jC
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:37:07 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
<<< I think you will find genet = broom = genista. Shows up in Sculley's Neopolitan cookbook. So named for the yellow color of the sauce matching color of broom flowers. I'm dealing with some other issues at the minute, so I can't chase it further.
Bear >>>
That would be this one:
A Sauce called Broom Blossom. Get almonds, saffron and egg yolks, grind them all together and distemper, straining the mixture, and adding in ground ginger and verjuice. [The Neapolitan recipe collection (Italy, 15th c - T. Scully, trans.)]
- Doc
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:34:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
There's also cameline sauce for quail. Ordinance of Pottage 115 (81) calls for poudire of canele plus mustard.
Sauce Camelyn for veneson appears in Ashmole 1393 calls for poudire of canel.
Johnnae
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:44:20 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
I webbed a whole bunch of Cameline recipes, breaking them down by ingredients and comparing them.
http://home.earthlink.net/~al-tabbakhah/misc/CamelineSauce-Survey.html
Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:43:13 -0400
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
Wow. That would pretty much appear to be definitive.
I don't think one can quite call it a recipe but Aldebrandino does give a summary description in his article on pheasant meat:
"Et la droite savuers ? coi on le doit mengier est sause cameline o? il ait ass?s de caniele et cardamon; "
"And the right flavor with which it must be eaten is cameline sauce where there is enough cinnamon and cardamom."
Regime de Corps, 1911 edition, tr. Landouzy/Pepin, p 131.
Jim Chevallier
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 14:55:53 -0400
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cameline and genet
I wanted to note that while I find the hypothesis of a transition from "caneline" to "cameline" convincing, the idea of a camel-colored sauce is not necessarily far-fetched; camels were actually pretty standard in France in the early Middle Ages. How many lingered by the time the sauce was invented, or whether people simply knew them from the Crusades, I don't know, but it's not a far-fetched idea either.
jC
<the end>