fd-Ottn-Turks-msg - 10/22/14 Food of the Ottoman Turks. Resources. Cookbooks. NOTE: See also the files: fd-Turkey-msg, fd-Mid-East-msg, fd-Khazaria-art, E-Arab-recip-art, fd-Greece-msg, Turkey-msg, Byzantine-msg, Gypsies-art, Janissaries-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:19:08 -0700 From: Lilinah Subject: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Ottoman Bulghur w/Chestnuts To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I'd like to serve some version of bulghur wheat with chestnuts at my upcoming Ottoman feast. The dish is mentioned in many 16th C. menus. It was served at meals as a primary grain dish. Unfortunately there's no surviving recipe. So i'm trying to invent something - yes, not good for perfect historical accuracy - but there may be some diners who cannot eat rice. I'm trying to figure out a few things and i'd like to run them by folks here. Bulghur - Based on my reading of other recipes, it is likely that the Ottomans prepared bulghur either with broth or water. Broth would be more flavorful, so that what I plan to do. It is quite edible if just soaked in liquid and not actually cooked over a fire. Modern bulghur pilavs simmer the bulghur about 25 min. But if I can keep a burner free, that would be nice. Any opinions, based on cooking and/or eating bulghur, as to whether I should just soak the bulghur in hot broth (which would free up a stove burner) or actually put it over the fire? Chestnuts - Again, I know you and I are working blind, pretty much, but i'm asking for non-Ottoman food experiences... I could just stir roasted and peeled chestnuts into the cooked bulghur. But I figure the chestnuts would be more tender if I simmer them in broth after peeling them, then stir them into the bulghur. (i may be able to get packs of peeled chestnuts which will save wear and blistering on my fingers) Any opinions? Fat - Sheep tail fat apparently figures in a lot of the actual Ottoman recipes. But i'd like this dish to be edible by any vegetarians who attend. Butter is an option, as it was frequently used. Olive oil was NOT used in Palace cooking, just for oil lamps. On the other hand, there are folks here with genuine health related food issues - a need to reduce cholesterol intake. So i'm considering oil - obviously not olive. I'm wondering if sunflower oil would be too off-base to use. As far as I can tell, the Ottomans didn't use it, but I won't use canola, since nearly all grown in the US is genetically modified. Opinions? Finally... Flavoring - This is the trickiest part. While the Ottomans ate dishes from al-Baghdadi's cookbook (which is where the actual Ottoman recipes showed up - in a translation of al-Baghdadi into Osmanli), the actually Ottoman dishes use far fewer spices and seasonings than al-Baghdadi's. I'm leaning toward finely chopped onions cooked in some butter or oil until soft and translucent, then stirred into the bulghur with salt and pepper, and maybe some cinnamon (although i'm not a fan of cinnamon). I'll be making 4 kinds of rice: white, red, yellow and green - so i'm thinking of skipping parsley and/or mint (in the green) and saffron (in the yellow). ------- I haven't found a recipe for bulghur with chestnuts in a modern Turkish cookbook, but I only have two of them. Modern bulghur pilav calls for bulghur, butter, onions, salt, pepper, and broth, sometimes tomato paste (clearly, i'm not using this), sometimes with fried dried vermicelli (which are then cooked). The bulghur is simmered, but as I said, if I can keep a burner free, that would be nice... ------- I did a count of the ingredients in the very limited number of recipes in Yerasimos's book - 22 from the late 15th C. (and 2 more that appear in menus, but not in the 15th C. cookbook, so Yerasimos got them from other later historical sources - which I didn't count) (there are either 77 or 82 recipes in the 15th C. book written in an old form of Osmanli that is similar to Seljuk Turkish, which was used in the 13th C.) ======= SPICES 5 - saffron 3 - "some brayed spices" 3 - cinnamon 3 - musk 2 - cloves 2 - pepper ----- (only mentioned twice in the recipes, but shows up a lot in the Palace records, so probably added but not mentioned) 1 - cumin 1 - ginger (it seems odd to me that mastic doesn't show up) HERBS 3 - parsley 3 - mint, dried 1 - mint, fresh OTHER SEASONINGS 17 - salt 9 - rose water 3 - garlic SWEETENERS 9 - honey - sometimes as a substitute for sugar 8 - sugar, white SOURING AGENTS 2 - lemon juice - or orange juice as a substitute in 1 2 - verjus - or lemon juice as a substitute in 1 2 - white vinegar (doubtless white wine) 1 - sumac (added by Yersimos to a second) 1 - barberries - or tamarind in place of barberries VEGETABLES 10 - Onions, usually "finely chopped" 8 - Chickpeas 2 - Gourd fresh 1 - Spinach 1 - Chard 1 - Carrot, preserved /carrot jam FRUITS 7 - apricots, dried 6 - grapes: white razaki, red, pink, black, green (in 2) 5 - apples - with quinces as a substitute in one recipe 1 - figs 1 - dates MEAT 17 - lamb/mutton (not always specified, many say only meat, but beef and pork were not used) 6 - meatballs (undoubtedly of lamb/mutton) 5 - chicken 1 - meat of camel, sheep, lamb, or chicken 1 - sausage stuffed with fatty chopped meat, an abundance of black pepper, and an onion, and almonds sliced 1 - eggs 1 - egg whites NUTS 14 - almonds 1 - walnuts FAT 12 - butter, "fresh and sweet" 1 - fat from the tail of fat-tail sheep 1 - oil sesame 1 - oil (type not specified) (for frying) NOTE: meat is often specified as fatty DAIRY 2 - milk, fresh 2 - yogurt, ewe's milk OTHER LIQUIDS water (i didn't count - in many recipes for cooking meat, making dough, soaking dried fruit, etc.) 4 - broth from cooking the meat 2 - broth from cooking the chicken STARCHES 8 - chickpeas 8 - rice 5 - starch 4 - flour sifted / finely ground / good, white, and pure 2 - rice flour 1 - bread, soaked 1 - vermicellis OTHER INGREDIENTS 1 - pomegranate juice - optionally with: the juice of plums and plums, or currant juice and currants (real currant fruit - ribes), or cherry juice and cherries 1 - yeast ------- Thanks for any opinions and suggestions -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:51:50 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Ottoman Bulghur w/Chestnuts To: Cooks within the SCA On Sep 19, 2007, at 8:19 PM, Lilinah wrote: > Bulghur - Based on my reading of other recipes, it is likely that the > Ottomans prepared bulghur either with broth or water. Broth would be > more flavorful, so that what I plan to do. It is quite edible if just > soaked in liquid and not actually cooked over a fire. Modern bulghur > pilavs simmer the bulghur about 25 min. But if I can keep a burner > free, that would be nice. Any opinions, based on cooking and/or > eating bulghur, as to whether I should just soak the bulghur in hot > broth (which would free up a stove burner) or actually put it over > the fire? Bulgur's steamed before drying, I'm pretty sure, so you can pour boiling water over it in the right proportions, and it'll soak it up and "cook", if it's not too coarse and you stir occasionally... this assumes you don't want it _really_ soft. I've cooked bulgur in food service operations, when no one was looking, with hot water from the coffee urn ;-). People kept asking what my secret for perfect bulgur was. Adamantius Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:45:59 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Ottoman Bulghur w/Chestnuts To: Cooks within the SCA Marianna Yerasimos in 500 Years of Ottoman Cuisine has two pages on bulgur. She mentions the various accounts that list it, including the purchasing records from 1473 that record chestnuts and bulgur being purchased and cooked in the imperial kitchens. She indicates that the chestnuts were omitted and return as an ingredient in the pilavi in the 18th century. She then gives an 18th century recipe for Kestaneli Bulgur Pilavi. It's on page 131. It's bulgur, meat stock or plain water, chestnuts, onion, butter, raisins, cumin, allspice, dill, and salt. I am not sure how early that the allspice would have made its way east to the Ottoman Empire. I just read that it was one of the things Columbus brought back from the New World, but how soon it would have traveled from there east I don't know. Johnnae Lilinah wrote: > I'd like to serve some version of bulghur wheat with chestnuts at my > upcoming Ottoman feast. The dish is mentioned in many 16th C. menus. > It was served at meals as a primary grain dish. Unfortunately there's > no surviving recipe. > > So i'm trying to invent something - yes, not good for perfect > historical accuracy - but there may be some diners who cannot eat > rice. > > I'm trying to figure out a few things and i'd like to run them by > folks here. Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:11:32 -0400 From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Ottoman Bulghur w/Chestnuts To: Cooks within the SCA > Bulghur - Based on my reading of other recipes, it is likely that the > Ottomans prepared bulghur either with broth or water. Broth would be > more flavorful, so that what I plan to do. It is quite edible if just > soaked in liquid and not actually cooked over a fire. Modern bulghur > pilavs simmer the bulghur about 25 min. But if I can keep a burner > free, that would be nice. Any opinions, based on cooking and/or > eating bulghur, as to whether I should just soak the bulghur in hot > broth (which would free up a stove burner) or actually put it over > the fire? Most of the recipes that I've seen call for boiling water or stock poured over the bulghur, letting it rest for 20 mins or so but not actually cooking it, then draining. That's how I've made it. I'd do a test batch with the particular bulghur you buy, because time will depend on the size. You still need a burner to heat the broth/water, and its likely to take longer than you expect. And use a vegetarian broth if you hope to serve it to vegetarians. > Chestnuts - Again, I know you and I are working blind, pretty much, > but i'm asking for non-Ottoman food experiences... I could just stir > roasted and peeled chestnuts into the cooked bulghur. But I figure > the chestnuts would be more tender if I simmer them in broth after > peeling them, then stir them into the bulghur. (i may be able to get > packs of peeled chestnuts which will save wear and blistering on my > fingers) Any opinions? You can buy frozen roasted and peeled chestnuts. The ones stashed in my freezer are from Trader Joe. I'd look into that, because it is a major pain to peel the inner skin. It takes me an hour or more for a pound. The peeled ones were cheaper too. > Fat - Sheep tail fat apparently figures in a lot of the actual > Ottoman recipes. But i'd like this dish to be edible by any > vegetarians who attend. Butter is an option, as it was frequently > used. Olive oil was NOT used in Palace cooking, just for oil lamps. > On the other hand, there are folks here with genuine health related > food issues - a need to reduce cholesterol intake. So i'm considering > oil - obviously not olive. I'm wondering if sunflower oil would be > too off-base to use. As far as I can tell, the Ottomans didn't use > it, but I won't use canola, since nearly all grown in the US is > genetically modified. Opinions? I'm not sure where you would find tail fat anyway. It comes from a special breed of sheep. I don't think any old sheep fat would be the same. They couldn't use Sunflower oil, since that is a New World food. If you are going to use any oil at all, I'd use olive oil, or perhaps sesame oil if you can find it at a good price. Maybe they didn't use olive oil in the palace cooking, but I'll bet the cooks used it in the dishes they cooked for themselves. If you use sesame oil, DON'T buy the dark Chinese kind. Ranvaig Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:30:43 -0700 From: Lilinah Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman Soup Choices To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Well, i've got the starches and the desserts figured out, but i'm still dithering about the two soups, the main meat dishes, and the two vegetable dishes. Usually i'm way ahead in my menu planning, but I guess I spent time on the Feast for the K&Q of the West at Pennsic and let the Ottoman feast languish. I'm writing to ask for what you think about the possible soups I can serve. I just want responses like, "that sounds interesting", or "yuck", or "hmmm, maybe" Like the bulghur with chestnuts I posted about, most have no real recipe. Here's what i've gleaned from the text of "A la table du Grand Turc", plus one soup recipe ONE - This one had no recipe, the ingredients were listed in a record book Sour Soup from the Ashane Tevziname, the records of the imaret (alms house) of Mehmed II These quantities were noted as serving 4 broth probably made with lamb or chicken 75 grams rice (2-2/3 oz) pekmez (raisin syrup) made of 600 grams (21.43 oz) black grapes 25 grams rose grapes (1 oz) 25 grams figs or apricots (1 oz) 25 grams plums (1 oz) almonds optional No directions? So I'm guessing: 1. Soak rice in broth to cover for some time, then cook until tender. [i say this because that's what the surviving recipes that include rice say] 2. Stir in raisin syrup, and fruits. 3. Add more broth, salt to taste, and simmer until fruits are tender. 4. Serve sprinkled with butter fried sliced almond. ----- TWO - Buyresiyye - An actual soup recipe Yerasimos says: "Under this name is hidden, without doubt, the soup with barberries (kadin tuzlugu shorbasi) mentioned on the occasion of the great feasts of 1539. It is again an addition by Shirvani." Buyresiyye. Cook a quantity of meat halfway, crush 200 dragmes of barberries with a little water and pass through a sieve. Pour the juice on the meat, add 200 dragmes of skimmed honey, make some small meatballs and place them as well in the pot, add as well some finely chopped onion, 100 dragmes of almonds, 100 dragmes of red grapes, 14 or 15 tigre [dried] apricots, and 50 or so dragmes of rice. Add next 3 dragmes of crushed cloves and 10 red apples chopped fine. Season with salt, and when it is all cooked, asperse with rose water, and withdraw from the fire. One can use tamarind in place of barberries. -- Shirvani, folio 126 verso ----- THREE - Other Various Soups Soups Described by Albertus Bobovius in his memoirs. A Pole by birth, he spent 19 years at Topkap?, between 1638 and 1657, as a page renamed Ali Ufk? Bey chicken broth mixed with rice, chicken broth mixed with pasta, chicken broth mixed with chestnuts, chicken broth mixed with chickpeas, and seasoned with pomegranate molasses or seasoned with a mixture of lemon and egg yolks [notice... chicken broth mixed with rice and seasoned with a mixture of lemon juice and egg yolks... don't know what the Ottomans called it, but it sure sounds like what the Greeks call Avgolemono] ----- The main course will have one Ottoman lamb dish, one Ottoman chicken dish, two vegetables from al-Baghdadi, Ottoman bulghur with chestnuts, and four colors of rice (white, red, yellow, and green) It is likely that the chicken dish will include fruit and the lamb dish will include herbs, but i haven't quite decided... Thanks for your opinions. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:18:56 -0700 From: Lilinah Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman Soup Choices To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Jadwiga Zajaczkowa wrote: > They all sound good. My only concern is 'how much rice can you serve?' > since all of them seem to have rice... From what I can tell, the amount of rice in the soup was light - the soups are mostly broth with limited thingies floating in them. So i could make one soup with rice... And a whole lot of the meat recipes include rice, too. In fact, in reviewing the meat dishes, 5 out of 10 that are purely Ottoman included rice. Since both chicken dish choices have fruit, i'm planning to cook a meat dish without fruit... Only 3 out of 10 had no fruit - two of them included rice and one included pasta... In the 15th and 16th centuries they did serve A LOT of rice. I'm planning not to... Well, it may seem like a lot, but i'm not making meat-plus-rice dishes (I'll make the dish without the rice), and i don't want rice in both my soups, either. I do plan to make one or two rice desserts. Additionally, just about all the desserts, and many main dishes, include almonds... sigh... I guess if one was allergic to almonds, one did not survive past a certain age. > The two you have in detail are both fruit soups. Do you have a source > for barberries? Yes, I do. There's a Persian store near me where I often shop - they sell some prepared dishes with barberries - and i've bought dried barberries there. > I'd say one of the detailed ones, and one non-rice-- like > chicken broth and chickpeas, maybe? Well, chickpeas feature in a lot of recipes, too, sigh... They're mashed with the meat to fill the manti, for example, and feature in most of the meat dishes. Reading what the Sultans ate and what the Palace pages and eunuchs ate... it was really monotonous. The weekly menu has two meals, the morning meal being much more expansive and varied than the evening meal. And the same dishes are pretty much repeated week after week, so one would always know what was going to be served on Tuesday, on Wednesday, etc. There were limited seasonal variations, such as which sour fruit was added to a soup, or what vegetable would be cooked with the lamb. Feasts featured dish after dish of rice - plain rice, seasoned and colored rice, rice with a slab of meat resting on top of the bowl, rice and meat cooked together, rice with chicken, etc. European visitors tended to complain a lot about it. The same was true in 16th and 17th C. Persia, as well. We modern folks might not mind the various rice pilafs, but Europeans of the time were more used to one rice dish and several separate meat dishes. As I said, however, i'm going to limit the amount of rice. There will be a tray with moderate amounts of four kinds of rice: plain white, green (with herbs), yellow (saffron), and red (with pomegranate juice) served with the main course, and one or two rice desserts among the cookies, fried pastries, etc. I went through the recipes in Yerasimos again, and found that of the 42 recipes he has, there are only 3 purely Ottoman chicken recipes. One is batter-covered fried chicken with a sweet-and-sour sauce which i consider too labor intensive and time sensitive for a feast. The other two are for chicken cooked with fruit and nuts, so i'm definitely serving a sweet fruity chicken. They also ate dishes from al-Baghdadi, but I want to focus on the actually Ottoman recipes, although clearly al-Baghdadi has not been fully utilized in SCA feasts yet. So that means I won't be serving a sweet lamb and fruit dish. Unfortunately, most of the recipes for lamb include fruit. Some even involve practically candying the meat before serving (really!)... and i'm not a big sugar fan. But thank you for your feedback. I'll definitely take your suggestions into consideration. Still musing on the menu, -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:37:24 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sixteenth Century Turkish I found illustrations of Ottoman sugar works and sugar garden parades several years back when working on a subtletie. The really great Geocities site is   gone alas, but there's this one which features the early 18th century   miniatures http://www.kanyak.com/surname-i-vehbi/index.html It seems to feature most of what the former site did. There's also this essay at the same site: The Imperial Procession: Recreating a world's order Stephane Yerasimos It details the early history of the processions. There's also material at: http://www.turkish-cuisine.org/english/index.php --- Readers might also like a number of the articles at Muslimheritage.com I came across these today: http://www.muslimheritage.org/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=1101 http://MuslimHeritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=696 Johnna On Apr 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM, emilio szabo wrote: <<< On page 472, you will also find a quotation about sugar work: "... das zuckerwerck/ so auff mancherley Art der Thier/ Voegl/ etc.   geformiert ist gewesen ... vnnd ein stueck einer Elln vnnd hoeher   gewesen" the creations made of sugar that had the form of various kinds of   animals and birds [follows a list] ... and each sugarwork was one   (Elle) high and even higher. (I am not sure what was the measure of an Elle in those days.) E. >>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 22:28:03 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sixteenth Century Turkish Regarding the feasting and food offerings during Ottoman royal circumcision festivals and accompanying parades of sugar sculptures, Stephane Yerasimos wrote, in ''A la table du Grand Turc'' (my rough translation): The common people ... had the right to two public demonstrations that mixed spectacle and sustenance. One of them was the parade of sculptures made of sugar. Plants, animals, and human figures, too - another example of the transgression of an interdiction of Islam made possible by the festival - sculpted sometimes in monumental sizes, were carried to the Hippodrome. The account of 1539 catalogs the inventory: 64 castles, 2 tents, 1 tightrope walker, 1 cannon, 1 water wheel, 18 Imperial daisies, a vendor's stall, 1 cypress, 6 violets, 5 peacocks, 1 stork, 11 rooster, 3 mermaids, 2 fountains with jets of water, 10 galleys, 5 galleons, 9 lanterns, 10 giants, 4 elephants, 2 rhinoceroses, 43 horses, 3 donkeys, 2 oxen, 2 goats, 3 rams, 16 popes, 1 churches, 53 galaxies, flowers, 872 small birds, and plants, 308 narcissus, 281 roses, 141 fish. [my note: many sugar sculptures were life size or close to it] A similar list drawn up on the occasion of the circumcision festival of 1582, shows few differences: one of the rhinoceroses was replaced by a giraffe because between the two dates one of these animals brought to Istanbul caused a sensation, and the popes disappeared - the list specifies "church without popes" - because between times the society, become more conservative, rejected human representation? The consistency in this catalog, which might appear at first glance to be by chance, shows that the plan of festivals followed not only sacrificed nothing to form, but also to taste. Besides sugar, of which 9,595 kg were dispensed, a total weight of 5,644 kg of musk, anise, bitter oranges, lemons, coriander, almonds, and pistachios were used for the confection of the statues. All this cost more than 6,000 pieces of gold, of which 1,200 constituted the remuneration of the Jewish guild of confectioners, charge with the fabrication. After having made the tour of the Hippodrome, these figures were delivered as [p?ture = lit. pasturage, grazing land] to the population, who thus divided up more than 15 tons of sweetmeats. == End Quote == Note that at that time the cost of a kilo of sugar was approximately 20 times the cost of a kilo of sheep meat -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 11:04:59 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Feast Menu for Commentary On Aug 7, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Barbara Benson wrote: < You could on adding a subtletie or Ottoman sugarwork? Would that be something you could do or contract out? > I really want to do some sugar work - but I have no idea how to go about it. I am familiar with sugar paste and such but have come across no descriptions as to how the Ottoman's did sugar work. I have a bunch of pictures of the parade of sugar from the Suleyman's sons circumcision celebration and I know exactly what I want to do (the new Baroness has a thing for elephants). But the how is causing me problems. Was the sugar molded? Carved? Blown? I don't even know where to look to figure that out. -- Serena =================== The Ottoman were heavily into their sugar items and they paraded them   for a number of festivals. See http://www.kanyak.com/surname-i-vehbi/yerasimos.html for descriptions. Images are here http://www.kanyak.com/surname-i-vehbi/images.html I would start out with a mold or a couple of molds if you are doing elephants in any quantity. It saves a great deal of time and if the baroness is going to be in office for a number of years, the molds can be used for other feasts through the years or even presented to her as a gift. You may want to invest a large mold plus a smaller one. Cake places have naturalistic elephant molds. I like Tomric plastics   myself but they can be expensive. They carry professional weight molds for shops and home use. http://www.tomric.com One book with marvelous pictures is: The Food Culture of the Ottoman Palace by Gary Oberling and Grace Martin Smith. Istanbul : Society of Friends of Topkapi Palace Museum, 2001. Again great illus; good text with footnotes; Lots of information on the 16th century court. And all my information of course from the 2006 research on Ottoman   sugar is posted on the SCA Subtleties List. That may be of help. Johnnae Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 11:31:27 -0400 From: Elise Fleming To: sca-cooks Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Feast Menu for Commentary Serena wrote: < I really want to do some sugar work - but I have no idea how to go about it. I am familiar with sugar paste and such but have come across no descriptions as to how the Ottoman's did sugar work. I have a bunch of pictures of the parade of sugar from the Suleyman's sons circumcision celebration and I know exactly what I want to do (the new Baroness has a thing for elephants). But the how is causing me problems. > Johnnae's suggestion of making a mold is a great one.  If you don't have time, though, you might consider just applying a thin coat of sugar paste or marzipan to an elephant statue/toy.  If it's marzipan, you can peel the coating off to eat.  If it's sugar paste, it's likely to stick hard enough that you won't be able to retrieve the original item.  In the Midrealm, now-Mistress Rosamund Beauvisage did something similar with a plastic man that she transformed into a sugar paste prince. Color/paint the coating material for more realism. Alys K. Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 11:08:09 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Feast Menu for Commentary Johnna wrote: <<< ...have you looked at Yerasimos, Marianna 500 Years Of Ottoman Cuisine ISBN : 9752301614 Publisher : Boyut Yayin in Istanbul. 2005? It includes a great chapter on food and culinary sources in Ottoman history, inc. palace records. Also nearly 100 recipes ranging from 14-17th centuries. With illustrations. Try interlibrary loan. It might give you a couple more suggestions and the pictures are great. >>> It was the best of books, it was the worst of books... OK, couldn't resist. But that's hyperbole, it's not really best or worst, but it is both very helpful and hair tearingly frustrating. She has useful information, and the pictures span close to 500 years. She mentions the original sources from which she derived her recipes, yea :) but does not give the originals, boo :( I confess I adapted some, and used info in her book to kinda reconstruct others. I purchased it from a source recommended by Johnna called Tulumba, a company in the US that specializes in things Turkish, the web site is in both Turkish and English. I am quite glad I bought the book, but if Middle Eastern cuisine is not your focus ILL may be a better way to go. -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:18:02 -0400 From: Sam Wallace To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sesame Oil in 16th Century Ottoman Turkey I was doing a bit of reading in the travelogue "The observations of many singularities and memorable things, found in Greece, Asia, Judea, Egypt, Arabia, and other foreign countries." I thought the following would be of interest to the list: http://books.google.com/books?id=tBkOAAAAQAAJ p. 427 "Les Turcs ont l?huile de Sesame en tel vsage, que ceux de France ont l?huile de noix, & en Languedoc l?huile d?oliue: & d?autant qu?on la fait auec grand labeur, c?est commun?ment ouurage d?esclaue. Aussi ne la fait on qu?en hyuer. Ils tre[m]pent la semence de Sesame vingt & quatre heures en eau salle: puis mettent en la place, & la battent auec des maillets de bois dessus vne serpillere iusques ? ce qu?elle soit escorchee, puis la mettent tremper de rechef en de l?eau salee, qui soustient l?escorce ? mont, laquelle ils iettent. Puis ostent le grain du fond, qu?ils seichent au four, & le meulent: & deslors l?huile coule molle comme moustarde: car il y a peu d?excremens. Puis l?ayans fait bouillir lentement, separent le marc. C?est vne huile moult douce & friande, & qui est ? bon march?." The Turks have Sesame oil in such usage, as those in France have walnut oil, and in Languedoc of olive oil: and as much as that one makes it with great labor, it is commonly slave's work. Also it is done only in winter. They soak the seed of Sesame twenty and four hours in salt water: then put in place, and beat it with wooden mallets on top of a floor mat until it is hulled, then put it to soak anew in salt water, which supports the hull to rise, which they throw away. Then remove the grain from the bottom, they bake dry, and grind it: and then oil flows soft as mustard: since there is little excrescence. Then having made it boil slowly, separate the grounds. It is a very sweet and dainty oil, and which is inexpensive. Note, "l'huile de noix" is translated as "walnut oil" in modern French, but might be rendered more simply as nut oil. This passage lets us know what kinds of oil are appropriate for the different regions of France ("Languedoc" is the South West where "oc" was used for "yes"). I wonder if the floor mat in question was a kilim or some other rug, and if it had to be turned over for such use if it was. I also noticed that the sesame oil was boiled, which changes its flavor. Too, this gives us an idea of the texture of French mustard. Other passages make reference to sorbets and sherbets... Guillaume Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:46:06 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sesame Oil in 16th Century Ottoman Turkey Guillaume wrote: <<< I was doing a bit of reading in the travelogue "The observations of many singularities and memorable things, found in Greece, Asia, Judea, Egypt, Arabia, and other foreign countries." I thought the following would be of interest to the list: http://books.google.com/books?id=tBkOAAAAQAAJ >>> p. 427 SNIP <<< The Turks have Sesame oil in such usage, as those in France have walnut oil, and in Languedoc of olive oil: and as much as that one makes it with great labor, it is commonly slave?s work. Also it is done only in winter. They soak the seed of Sesame twenty and four hours in salt water: then put in place, and beat it with wooden mallets on top of a floor mat until it is hulled, then put it to soak anew in salt water, which supports the hull to rise, which they throw away. Then remove the grain from the bottom, they bake dry, and grind it: and then oil flows soft as mustard: since there is little excrescence. Then having made it boil slowly, separate the grounds. It is a very sweet and dainty oil, and which is inexpensive. >>> Ooh, thank you! First, a question: Where was the author observing this taking place? Sesame oil appears in SCA period Arabic language cookbooks, but not in the one from mid 15th c. Ottoman Kostantiniyye (aka Constaninople, not Istanbul :) by Mahmud of Shirvan nor in the descriptions of palace food or lists of ingredients for dishes for feasts, circumcision festivals, or served in the imarets (soup kitchens attached to mosques and funded by bequests from sultans, their mothers or wives or daughters, and viziers). I realize that the masses of people do not eat like the Sultan, maybe, instead of the butter (often clarified) so greatly used in the palace kitchens... <<< Note, "l'huile de noix" is translated as "walnut oil" in modern French, but might be rendered more simply as nut oil. This passage lets us know what kinds of oil are appropriate for the different regions of France ("Languedoc" is the South West where "oc" was used for "yes"). >>> I have been thinking about SCA period cooking oils for some months and one thing has lodged in my mind: that is the possibility that various regions had local, and maybe seasonal, oils that didn't get exported. For example, the possibility of grape seed oil in grape growing regions of what are now Spain, France, and Italy. <<< I wonder if the floor mat in question was a kilim or some other rug, and if it had to be turned over for such use if it was. I also noticed that the sesame oil was boiled, which changes its flavor. Too, this gives us an idea of the texture of French mustard. >>> I wonder if the floor mat might have been perhaps of some bast fiber, and not of wool. Just wondering, no evidence. Wool was cheap, but it would soak up oil, while a bast fiber would not, or not as much. On some other hand, given that the writer says flows soft as mustard, i wonder if he is describing tahini. -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:21:50 -0400 From: Sam Wallace To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sesame Oil in 16th Century Ottoman Turkey "First, a question: Where was the author observing this taking place?" My best guess is Constantinople as it is referred to in several previous and subsequent passages. I have not had a chance to read through the whole thing, so I am only familiar with a few passages. "I realize that the masses of people do not eat like the Sultan, maybe, instead of the butter (often clarified) so greatly used in the palace kitchens..." Well, M. Belon notes that sesame oil is cheap, but so was butter, most likely, from reading about a street stand in Constantinople that specialized in dairy foods (both cow and sheep). Rich and poor alike enjoyed the place because it was cheap. It had a menu including Melca (Fresh Cheese Curds), Caimac (made of cream and in many different styles. Greek: Aphrogala), and Oxygala. The author notes there was a lot of Recuictte (Misitra / Mizithra -a cheese) used. "On some other hand, given that the writer says flows soft as mustard, I wonder if he is describing tahini." From context, no. This seems pretty clear from the comparison with nut and olive oils. It seems to me that the bit about mustard implies that French mustard was pretty thin and runny. Guillaume Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:32:22 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoked and Pickled: Sources and Recipes? Adamantius wrote: <<< It would seem highly plausible that the Turkish version of basturma, which is dry-rubbed and air-dried, as I understand it, is probably quite old, and also commercially available. Of course, modern versions generally include paprika in the rub, but the basic concept very likely stems from a much older, Old World friendly, concept...>>> The only time that the Ottoman Sultan's palace purchased beef in the 15th and 16th centuries was for the making of basturma, once a year. Unfortunately, I know of no recipe for it nor any description of how it was made. Clearly in the 15th c. no paprika was involved, and I suspect not in the 16th either. -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 18:05:45 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] 16th c. Safavid dulma-ye kalam (stuffed cabbage leaves) The subject of dolma comes up here occasionally, so here is more "food for thought"... From the Safavid Persian cookbook, "Maddat al-khayat, resala dar elm-e tabbaki" (The substance of life, a treatise on the art of cooking), dated to 1594/5 and written by Ostad Nurollah, the head chef of Shah Abbas I (r. 1587-1629) Dulma-ye kalam [stuffed cabbage] This is cooked by the people of Rum [Ottoman Turks] very often. In Iran it is not well known. How it is made : Brown finely chopped meat. Then prepare rice, which was mixed with chickpeas, onions, crushed spices and salt. Break down the cabbage into leaves, blanch each, then wrap the chopped meat and the rice in the cabbage leaves. Then put this into a pot, drip some clear meat broth and melted fat into it, and let it simmer. (my translation) The Persians drank a lot of wine, and would have vine leaves available, but they apparently are not used in this recipe. -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:45:55 -0400 From: Sam Wallace To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mishmishiya question <<< Then there are actual Ottoman recipes, which I have translated into English - none using venison, however, since the Ottomans didn't eat game much, if at all. >>> I suspect that while game dishes were not often served at court, they were enjoyed in the field. There are plenty of depictions from Ottoman manuscripts of hunting and hawking. While it is possible that the meat was not consumed by the nobles involved, it seems unlikely that it would not be eaten. Guillaume Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:35:51 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: SCA-Cooks Subject: [Sca-cooks] SCA-Period Ottoman Recipes I Have Cooked Since i'll be teaching another SCA-period Ottoman cooking class at the upcoming West Coast Cooking Symposium, which will be held in the West, I decided to see which recipes i'd cooked already. It turns out to be more than I had thought. So far I have served and/or taught 28 mid-15th and 16th c. recipes. So I put together a little web page with a list: http://home.earthlink.net/~al-tabbakhah/OttomanRecipes_I_Cooked.html I haven't yet linked the titles to my on-line recipes, but i'll be working on that and on getting the missing recipes on-line. All but one of the original recipes I have translated myself from either modern Turkish, medieval German, or modern French - because my search for someone in my area familiar with Eski Osmali Turkchesi, in which Shirvani wrote and which is like the much earlier Seljuk Turkish, has so far proven fruitless. Since neither I nor any other scholar has translated all of Shirvani's recipes, I still have about 45 more to go :-) I welcome any questions, comments, or suggestions. Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 16:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: SCA-Cooks Subject: [Sca-cooks] Another One - a 15th c. Ottoman chicken dish At the Antir-West Cooks Play Date, a tradition at the West-Antir War, I cooked a dish that was delicious, if I do say so myself, as well as heart stopping. In the manuscript, it follows a completely untitled but different chicken dish. It was one of the recipes I recently translated from among the 85 added by Shirvani to his mid-15th c. translation of al-Baghdadi's cookbook. folio 116 verso Bashka bir turu - Another kind The manner of making it is: Cut up two fresh chickens. Into a pot drop 100 dirhems of butter on the chicken. After the chicken is cooked, add chopped onions, and 50 dirhems almonds. Meanwhile make a syrup of 200 dirhems pomegranates and honey or sugar, add to the dish. Then add 100 dirhems tigre' apricots, after the apricots are soft, [f. 117 recto] add a spoonful of flour into the mixture, stir, cook some more, Then take off the fire and put in a nice arrangement, and eat. It is extremely delicious. (translation by Urtatim / Ellen Perlman, 2013) In modern US measurements: 2 fresh chickens (pasture raised - I asked the butcher to cut them up) 10.5 oz. butter (unsalted, from pastured cows) chopped onions (3 or 4 medium yellow ones) 5 plus oz. blanched almonds 21 oz. pure unadulterated pomegranate juice (the brand I got was imported from Azerbaijan - I couldn't resist it since that's where the city of Shirvan is) enough honey or sugar (1-1/3 cups white sugar) 10.5 oz. dried apricots (per Stephane Yerasimos, "tigre'" was a dried variety) a spoonful of flour (i used pure wheat starch) Cooking with live charcoal (and NOT those nasty briquettes) can take longer, so the chicken cooked gently. I stirred often to make sure the pieces were well coated in butter and in contact with the hot sides of the pot so they cooked through. When the chicken was about half-cooked I added the onions. This is my personal taste - I don't like undercooked onions and I wanted them soft, not crunchy. YMMV. I suspect the Ottomans liked the crunchy. Then I made the syrup. It was thinner than usual. This may be in part because I just eyeballed the sugar and may not have used enough, but also because it was so windy that the fire where I was making it may not have been hot enough as the wind kept blowing the flames away from the pot. In the end it was reduced to about 2/3 and I figured that was good enough. At home I would recommend making the syrup before doing anything else. I use the proportions in the anonymous Andalusian - equal weights of juice and sugar - following the "pint is a pound" maxim. If "pomegranate molasses" was what was wanted it would have been specified, since they had it. I think that what was wanted was something sweeter than just reduced pomegranate juice, which can be quite tart. I added the syrup, almonds, and apricots, as well as some salt and black pepper. Even though neither salt nor pepper was mentioned, I added them because they did not serve salt at the table - dishes were eaten as they were - so diners could not salt to taste. And pepper is the second most commonly specified spice, after saffron, and I know they used it quite a bit, so I thought it was suitable here. I just eyeballed it - maybe 1-1/2 tsp. salt and 1/2 tsp. pepper. And cooked until the chicken was done, stirring occasionally (not nice if apricots burn on the pot). Then I stirred in a couple tablespoons of wheat starch and cooked stirring until it was clearly absorbed into the sauce - a few minutes. --- That was A LOT of butter. Nope, no additional water. One stick (4 oz.) might be enough in a more controlled, home environment. I used starch because I needed it for another dish - lamb cooked with many fruits, onions, chickpeas, almonds and saffron - to which starch, not flour, was added at the same point in cooking - and I didn't want to bring both flour and starch. How this would have been eaten in the Ottoman palace I am not certain; I would imagine it was served over/with rice as part of a long parade of dishes in a feast, or as one of 3 meat dishes plus a soup for a palace breakfast - there was no lunch and dinners were smaller than breakfasts. Bread was always part of a meal, fairly flat yeasted bread, but not pocket pita, which is modern. Onions is a whole 'nother issue. Based on reading many recipes, I suspect they did not use the kinds of onions we use most commonly, yellow or white with a dry papery covering. I think their onions might have been younger and fresher, but I have no hard evidence yet. If anyone can make it next 4th of July, the Cooks Play Date is a fabulous experience. Cooks spend 3 days cooking period recipes in (mostly) period pots over lump charcoal. There was even Cordelia's custom fire pit built by a local smith following pictures in Scappi. And Flidais's portable brick bread oven. The cooks make all sorts of dishes during the day that they share among themselves - a parade of period nibbles. Then at dinner time, all the tables are lined up in the side of camp along a much-travelled road. All the cooks help themselves to the bounty, arranged on a few more tables even closer to the road. And we all sit facing the road. Then every passerby is invited to eat - Juana hands out small rectangular paper box dishes (as are often used for hot dogs). And after having a lip-smacking experience they are enjoined to chorus, "Period food is yummy!". Several handsome young Antiran fighters from Canada stopped to taste and ended up helping the camp wash pots and dishes, etc. That was an added pleasure. And as I mentioned, we even had several Caidans join us. All cooks and their partners are welcome and I highly recommend the experience. Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM) Edited by Mark S. Harris fd-Ottn-Turks-msg 20 of 20