fd-Mongols-msg – 10/2/10

Food of the Mongols. Recipes for Mongol food.

NOTE: See also the files: Mongols-msg, fd-Russia-msg, kumiss-msg, dairy-prod-msg, Mongols-N-o-B-art, Mongl-Mission-art, horse-recipes-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: corun at access2.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mongolian Cuisine (HELP!)
Date: 30 Jun 1995 18:28:39 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

Keith Johnson <ad520 at freenet.unbc.edu> wrote:
>I am trying to locate medieval mongolian recipes, I would be most 
>appreciative if anyone has some and would be willing to post them here or 
>e-mail them to me.

Here are a couple of Mongolian recipes that are fairly common over there.
I can't attest to their periodness, and I'll let the cooks of this group
debate whether or not there's a case for them having been made in the 13th
century, but they're the only Mongolian/Tuvan recipes I have.

Corun

From the alt.culture.tuva archives....
--------------------------------------------->

Cooking and serving boiled lamb without spices is not a deeply rooted
Tuvan-Mongolian tradition, and any representatives of the two nations 
happily parted from old habits in favour of paprika, pepper, marjoram, etc.

A truly fine dish is made as follows:

Mix flour and little water (salting permitted) to make dough; flatten (in
college kitchens comfortably by wine bottles [should be emptied beforehand])
to 2-3 mm, cut ~ 10-15 cm diameter discs, fill with minced lamb (keep the fat);
form a ball in your hand by pinching the edges together; leave a little
opening on top (important!); put over steam for 20 (?) minutes. The meat boils 
in its own juice, keeping all vitamins, minerals, trace elements. You eat 
it by hand, opening your mouth BIG!

5-15 balls per person. It is the famous booz (Mongolian name).

Here is the recipe for the fried version of booz, the khoorshoor.
Dough and fill is the same as for booz. 

Dough: flour and water (salt added), make dough, flatten to 1-2 mm, cut
discs of 10-15 cm diameter with a cup. Fill: minced meat. Spices: typically
none, but salt; paprika, pepper, especially marjoram help a lot.

Put the disc of dough in your palm, put the minced meat on it and flap the 
dough over it (you get a half-disc).

Pinch the two dough layers together. No holes should be left, otherwise the
juice of the meat will disappear. The khoorshhor is flat, about 2 cm
thick. Fry both sides in lamb fat (although Mongolians here readily use
sunflower oil). The colour of the fried dough should be light brown. It is
crisp at the edges and soft in the middle.

The pattern of the pinched edges of booz and khoorshoor is a matter of 
competition and pride. Several delicate forms can be made by the fingers,
the smaller and thinner is the better for booz. The margins should not be very
thin for the khoorshoor, because it burns when frying.
===============================================================================
   Corun MacAnndra   |
 Dark Horde by birth |	       	  vivivi - the editor of the Beast
   Moritu by choice  | 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Mongolian Cuisine (HELP!)
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 16:42:59 GMT

Corun MacAnndra gives modern recipes for two versions of a lamb in dough
ball recipe, called "booz" and "Khoorshoor." They sound similar to the
medieval islamic Sanbusak, which I suspect is related to the modern Indian
Samosa and to the following ingredient list from _Ain i Abari_ (16th
century Mughal):

20. Qutab, which the people of Hind call sanbusa: This is made in several
ways. 10 s. meat; 4 s. fine flour; 2 s. ghee; 1 s. onions; 1/4 s. fresh
ginger; 1/2 s. salt; 2 d. pepper and coriander seed; cardamons, cumin seed,
cloves, 1 d. of each; 1/4 s. of summaq. This can be cooked in twenty
different ways, and gives four full dishes.

Our current worked out version is:

To make 1/34th of this:

10 oz meat
4 oz flour=aprox 1/2 c white + 1/2 c whole wheat
2 oz ghee=aprox 4T (can substitute butter or margarine)
1 oz onion=1/3 to 1/2 c chopped
1/4 oz fresh ginger=1T chopped
1/2 oz salt=2t
1/24 th oz pepper=1/2 t ground
1/24 th oz coriander seed=1/2 t ground
1/49th oz  cardamon=1/4 t ground
1/49th oz cumin=1/4 t ground
1/49th oz cloves=1/4 t ground
1/4 oz sumac=2t

The following instructions are loosely based on the Andalusian Sanbûsak
recipe.

Mix the flour, cut into it the ghee; continue until it is finely cut in.
Sprinkle on about 4-5 T water and knead to a smooth dough. 

Cut up meat, combine it and all remaining ingredients in a food processor.
Process about 25 seconds, until it is all cut finely together. Roll out the
dough to about 12”x16”, and cut into 2”x2” pieces. Divide the filling
evenly, putting about a 1.5 t of the filling in each (i.e. use up all the
filling). Wrap the filling in the dough. It would probably work with fewer
squares and larger amounts of filling as well; the related Andalusian
recipe specifies a lump of filling the size of a walnut and an equal amount
of dough to wrap it with.

Put about 3 c of cooking oil in about a 3 qt pot, heat to between 350° and
370°,  fry the Sanbusas about 1 1/2 to 2 minutes each, drain, serve. Makes
about 48

Rather salty, but not intolerably so. People who do not like salt should
probably cut it in half. Almost all of the dishes from this source come out
quite salty. 
-- 
David/Cariadoc
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu


From: ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu (7/4/95)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Mongolian Cuisine (HELP!)

>What's "ghee"?

Clarified butter. You can get it from Indian grocery stores, or make it
following instructions in Indian cookbooks. Basically it is butter with
some impurities removed, making it stable to a higher temperature and (I
think) less subject to spoiling.

David Friedman
ddfr at midway.uchicago.edu


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Mongolian Cuisine (HELP!)
Organization: University of Chicago Law School
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 16:35:34 GMT

> I am trying to locate medieval mongolian recipes, I would be most 
> appreciative if anyone has some and would be willing to post them here or 
> e-mail them to me. ...

>   Keith Johnson

The following is an ingredient list for Shulla for the _Ain I Akbari_,
which is late 16th century northern Indian (Moghul). According to Charles
Perry, whose opinion I trust, Shulla is a mongol dish, and the source is
period although not period mongol. Unfortunately, what the source gives is
a list of ingredients, not a recipe:

Shulla: 10 s. meat, 3 1/2 s. rice; 2 s. ghi; 1 s. gram; 2 s. onions; 1/2 s.
salt; 1/4 s. fresh ginger; 2 d. garlic, and round pepper, cinnamon,
cardamons, cloves, 1 d. of each: this gives six dishes.

According to calculations by Robin Carroll-Mann, who first told me about
this source:

1 ser = 964 gm. = 2lbs, 2 oz.
1 dam =20.084 gm. = 7/10 oz.

The following is our worked out version, as it currently stands:

meat: 1lb leg of lamb
rice: 1.6 oz = 3-4 T
ghee 1.6 oz = 1/4 c
gram (chickpeas) .8 oz = 2T
onions 3 oz sliced (check volume)
salt .8 oz salt! = 1T
fresh ginger .4 oz peeled and copped (check volume)
garlic .07 ounce! = aprox 1/2 clove, sliced
pepper .035 oz = 1/2 t
cinnamon .035 oz = 1/4 stick
cardamon .035 oz = aprox 1/2 t
cloves .035 oz =  aprox 1/2 t

Melt the ghee, put it in a pot. Brown the meat, onions, and garlic in it
for about 5 minutes on a medium heat. Add 1 1/4 c of lukewarm water, salt,
chickpeas, cinnamon. Simmer about another 10 minutes, then add ginger,
pepper, cardamom and cloves. Add the rice and another 1/2 c of water.
Simmer another 1/2 hour. Serve. 

This was done on the (very uncertain) assumption that Shulla is related to
Shurba in al-Baghdadi, and that the recipe we have for the latter thus
gives a rough idea of how the former is made.

If you find any period mongol cookbooks, please let the rest of us know.
 -- 
David/Cariadoc
DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu


From: saaral at dcez.com (Grey Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mongolian Cuisine (HELP!)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 1995 17:52:20 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info at cais.com 703-448-4470

ad520 at freenet.unbc.edu (Keith Johnson) wrote:

>I am trying to locate medieval mongolian recipes, I would be most 
>appreciative if anyone has some and would be willing to post them here or 
>e-mail them to me.

A while back I had a recipe for Khorkhog, which was listed as a
mongolian festival dish. The book doesn't say how old the recipe is,
but it consits of the following:

1 Lamb cut into small pieces still on the bone
1 basket of onions chopped coarsley
seasonings to taste
(also needed is a large urn and many small stones that have been
heated in a fire)
rice
cooking broth

Mix the lamb pieces and onions together.
fill the urn with alternating layers of the lamb mixture and the hot
stones until full, cover the urn and leave it alone for a few hours.

When finished, remove stones, scoop out lamb and onion mixture and
serve over rice with cooking broth.


I've made this on several of our saturday night gaming sessions,
although I cheated. I used boneless lamb, and baked it in a covered
caserole dish at 350 for 75 minutes.

I have a few more Mongolian recipes at home on my bookshelf, I'll go
digging through them when I get home today (IF they decide to unchain
me from my desk)

The book with the Khorkhog recipe has the instructions for the
buttered tea.  I've made it for 3 events, and got mixed results each
time.  The second and third times I had to make a substitution and
ended up with results that were drinkable, but nothing to write home
about.

Yours,

Saaral (Soon to be Changed)/Grey the Succinct (Don't Blame Me, a BEAR Named Me!)
Frequent customer of the Tendou Akane's Kitchen of Pain


Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:45:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Cossacks, Mongols, and Huns..Oh My!

Karen Lyons-McGann wrote:
>
> Conchobar says:
>         Ok, I foolishly agreed to make a soup/stew for our event in March.
>
> Me too!   It's the first time I've volunteered for such a thing.  The
> title of the event is "Cossaks, Mongols & Huns" and I don't have to stick
> to the theme, but it would be nice.  Anyone have an idea what Cossaks,
> Mongols or Huns ate?  Or know of what book I should hunt down to start
> finding out?
>
> Anne

Okay. Lessee now. First off, I suspect that whatever the Cossacks ate
in  period either hasn't been documented in any way accessible to us, or
concerns their eating habits since the eighteenth century. Huns are in a
similar, but diametrically opposed, situation. I'm not aware of any
Greek or Roman authors who went into their eating habits, and while
there may be some period or early-post-period Hungarian recipes
available, there's some question whether those recipes represent the
eating habits of nomadic horsemen to any extent.

Now. The Mongols, on the other hand...

There are several relatively modern Mongolian recipes available in
archives from the UseNet newsgroup, rec.org.sca, a.k.a. the Rialto. I
believe the noble Lord Stefan Li Rous can hook you up with those; since
it's been a long time since I've looked at them, I'm not certain they
made their way into his Florilegium files.

In the mean time, you might check William of Rubrick, who was a European
traveller in the Far East in the 14th century. No specific recipes, for
the most part, but numerous descriptions of dishes and foodways.

Distantly related (because modern) is a method my brother-in-law, who
travelled to Outer Mongolia last summer, and made a video recording of
Mongol herdsmen cooking what was, for them, a traditional version of
Mongolian hot pot.

They built a big bonfire, heating smooth riverbed rocks in it until they
glowed. They added the rocks, and rather minimally seasoned chunks of
freshly killed, skinned, and butchered lamb or kid, to a large milk can,
with a clamping lid, and sealed it shut. They then played a version of
soccer with the can for ten minutes or so. Maybe more like five.

They then flipped the can upright again, and carefully opened it,
spraying meat juice, ash, and superheated steam everywhere (since the
milk can, having become, effectively, a pressure cooker, lacked a safety
valve) and ate their barbecue like proper Mongols: squatting on their
heels around a campfire, with semi-raw, semi-grilled leeks and
wheat-flour flatbread griddlecakes, and, of course, plenty of Russian
vodka.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:04:26 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cossacks, Mongols, and Huns..Oh My!

Karen Lyons-McGann wrote:
>> They built a big bonfire, heating smooth riverbed rocks in it until they
>> glowed. The added the rocks, and rather minimally seasoned chunks of
>> freshly killed, skinned, and butchered lamb or kid, to a large milk can,
>> with a clamping lid, and sealed it shut. They then played a version of
>> soccer with the can for ten minutes or so. Maybe more like five.
>> Adamantius
>
> How well do you think a lamb/kid stew would sell?  I've eaten both and
> liked it, but hardly anyone eats lamb, and I don't think you can even by
> kid around here.  Everyone would think it smelled and tasted odd and I
> couldn't sell any. This is one of the things that makes people say
> "period food is yucky" because they aren't familiar with it.  But, you
> said they ate it with flat bread? That's useful to know.

There's no reason lamb stew shouldn't sell, if properly prepared. The
trick is to make sure the lamb isn't too mature, trim off most of the
fat (but not all or it could be dry), and season it well. For a
Mongolianesque seasoning, I'd suggest ginger (fresh), lightly toasted or
fried garlic (fresh is best, but a nice cheat is to buy the little
dehydrated flakes or chips--NOT powder or "salt"--and either toast them
lightly in a low oven until they just begin to turn golden, or sauteed
in a lightly oiled saute pan, to a similar shade--make sure you don't
burn them) and a dash of cheap American or Canadian whiskey, like rye,
which is a reasonably close approximation of the kaoliang sorghum "wine"
you find in the North and West of China, which sometimes gets up to
around 180 proof. The wine, that is.

If you wanted to do something like this as a stew, rather than as a sort
of barbecue, which is really what the milk can method seems to produce,
I suggest you brown the lamb in a bit of oil, and just add more liquid,
like, for instance, beef stock. Small amounts of dark Chinese soy sauce
(thicker and less salty than the light kind) and a small pinch of
Chinese Five Spice Powder wouldn't hurt. Nor would a piece of dried
orange peel. If the lamb has enough gristly connective tissue on it, it
will cook until soft and the dissolved gelatin will thicken the broth
enough without adding any other thickener. You could eat this with wheat
flour cakes (bao bing in Mandarin, kinda like flat, thin, biscuits,
cooked in a frying pan or griddle, with or without a garnish of sesame
seeds), or the kind of wheat pancakes usually eaten with Mu Xi pork in
Chinese restaurants, rather like wheat flour tortillas. Or, in a pinch,
this could be eaten over thick, eggless, wheat-flour noodles, like the
Japanese udon.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:08:30 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Mongol Cooking

One further source you might want to look at is the _Ain I Akbari_. It is
16th century Mughal. The Mughal culture was Persian/Indian, and the
Persians had been under Mongol rule (the Ilkhans) for a considerable while
somewhat earlier. So the recipes might (or might not) have some connection
to Mongol cooking. I believe there are a couple of worked out ones on our
web page, and in the latest edition of the _Miscellany_ (7th), although
probably not the previous (6th), which is the webbed one.

David/Cariadoc


Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:34:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Chabi Merkit <afn05063 at afn.org>
Subject: SC - Mongol Receipes

Most of the receipes I have came from the Mongolia Society.  I also have a
few traditional receipes from some friend that are from Mongolia, but I'll
get to those.....

Sturgeon Boullion

1 kilogram Sturgeon
2.5 liters water
1 onion quartered
1 bunch parsley
1 parsnip
1 bunch celery
1 bay leaf
salt and pepper to taste

In order to make this sturgeon boullion one may use the entire fish or just
the head.

After cleaning and scaling sturgeon, cut it into peices, chopping the head
into a few peices, removing the eyes and gills.  Cover the cut sturgeon with
cold water in apot and bring to a boil.

Skim off the foan as it collects at the top.
Add the parsley, celery, and onion and bring to a boil for the second time.

Then cook over low heat for 50-60 minutes.

Take out the peices of fish and debone it.

Cook the cartilage until is becomes tender.

The fish is served on a plate, decorated with parsley springs and onion whil
the boullion is served separately in small bowls (pialy).

This receipe is from one of the more stable villages near lake Baykal.

Chabi


Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:30:48 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Mid 15th Century Mongolian food

The only thing I know of anywhere close is the _Ain I Akbari_, which is
16th c. Mughal. The connection between Mughal and Mongol is a little
complicated, but does exist. The book contains ingredient lists for 30
dishes, with quantities but without instructions (some can be identified
from period Islamic cookbooks, or, less clearly, from modern Indian
recipes), along with instructions for a frying pan bread and for distilling
arrack.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/


From: bojegei at aol.com (Bojegei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: More Mongol Stuff
Date: 27 Aug 1999 23:12:46 GMT

Keith D Mondschein <kdm at acsu.buffalo.edu> writes:
>       I am attempting to research period Mongol recipes, but am not
>having much luck.  I am only able to find the occasional hot pot, fried
>dumpling (khoshoor), or marinated lamb recipes and I am sure that Mongols
>ate more than just these three dishes (besides the marinade for the lamb
>isn't period).  Are there any decent cook books out there? If so, what are
>they called, and where could I pick one up?
>       Thanks in advance.  BTW- I'm willing to trade recipes.

Hot pot (despite being called mongolian hot pot) is not mongolian according to
the mongols posting to soc.culture.mongolia.   The closest thing I've ever
heard of is boiling the lamb in milk.  (Tim Severin's book)

I've never seen any references in period works to khoshoor or marinating the
lamb.

I've seen plenty of references to milk, koumiss, wine, mead, roast lamb (mostly
without even salt), cheese, & every kind of milk product.  There's also
multiple reference to the mongols fondness for pine nuts (they still eat them
constantly.)  There's a reference to  someone trying to grow almonds in
mongolia but apparently not successfully.  Battues (circle hunts) were used for
both military training & food gathering so it's probably safe to assume they
ate pretty much everything they could hunt.  Fish was a starvation food.  An
ambassador from Africa brought one of the Khans (Ogedei, I think) a watermelon.
 They ate a thin gruel for breakfast.  

Try reading some of the following period texts dealing with the Mongols for
references: the Secret History, the various works in _Mission to Asia_ (also
published as _The Mongol Missions), _The Successors of Genghis Khan_, Marco
Polo, _Travels of an Alchemist_, _Genghis Khan: History of the World Conquerer_
 etc etc  Ibn Battuta would probably have some good info too but I haven't read
that one yet.

A Chinese cookbook from the Yuan dynasty was translated & published Petit
Propos Culinaires #60  (many thanks to Dame Alys for putting this info out on
the Rialto).  The introduction references a central asian book from the same
period that was written for the mongol court but I haven't found a translation
yet.  (does anyone know how to get in touch with a Paul Buell or an E.N.
Anderson?)  The recipes in the 2 books are supposed to be massively different -
almost all the central asian recipes were meat based (mostly lamb) and very
little vegetables & seafood.  The chinese book has lots of veggies & seafood.

Bojei


Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:50:13 -0400
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Fw:      [SCA-U] Unsual Foods

>Well, things are a bit slow, and I've been going thru really old posts.
>This was one of mine in Atlantia:
>
>Re: Medieval diseases, or never touch plague rats
>        Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:30:59 -0500
>        From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
>Organization: Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia, and the GDH
>          To: Merryrose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
>
>> Poster: carl christianson <einar at cvn.net>
>> Elen Prydydd  wrote:
>> The prof I had for population history was really keen on McNeill:  he
>> drilled it into us pretty unmercifully  ;->  He even told us about
>> Mongolian folkways that prevented the spread of the damn disease:  never
>> touch a dead rodent (unless of course you just shot it) -- it's probably
>> diseased and has disease-carrying fleas on it!
>>
>> Elen
>
>Actually, this is still a current practice in Mongolia. I am reading
>a book on Women of Mongolia by Martha Avery, 1996, where it states
>that it is forbidden to carry marmot into the cities, but they do it
>anyway, because of the threat of spreading plague. Problem is that
>Marmot is a delicacy there and they are addicted to it. Marmot plague
>is called tarvagan takhal. It seems to be seasonal though, worst in
>from June to middle of August when the animals are weakest. Hunting
>season is August 15 to October 15, after that they hibernate.
>
>There are a number of ways to cook it. One involves making sure it is
>shot in the head, reaching down the throat to pull out the insides,
>placing hot river stones inside, and throwing the whole marmot on the
>coals of a fire. After about two hours he gets really big and one
>removes the stones, which can be used to rub oneself with, then pours
>out the soup which has gathered inside the animal into two or three
>cups. Then you eat the rest of the animal.
>
>Magnus, just chock full of extraneous information. Enjoy your marmot. ;)


Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:10:46 -0800
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandapease at bigfoot.com>
Subject: SC - Book on Mongol Foods, Islamic Medicine (long)

Dr. Paul Buell wrote the information below for the e-mail list MEDIEV-L.
This is a scholarly list that I lurk on.  Since the book sounds as though it
might be of interest to several people I'm forwarding it with his permission
along with this second post regarding it's price (yike!) and where it can be
obtained.

Book can be obtained in the USA from
Columbia University Press or directly from Kegan Paul:
http://www.demon.co.uk/keganpaul/mainframe.html

Amazon.com has it listed too. Just do a search on my name or A Soup for the Qan.
Alas, the price is 75 pounds, about $127.00 at the most recent conversion rate.
Now for that you do get a fat book. But this may not entirely be a good
thing (more to carry around).

Dr. Buell said:
Participants in this list (MEDIEV-L) may recall that when previously a regular
poster I often posted on food history topics as part of a long-continued
project to translate, explain, and introduce the Mongol-era (1330)
dietary manual Yin-shan cheng-yao, "Proper and Essential Things for the
Emperor's Food and Drink," a work which is not only a most important
Chinese medical classic but which also documents Mongol court foodways
and therewith the interactions of the Mongols with a broad Eurasian
culture, from Iraq to Manchuria, from Siberia on south to Kashmir (represented by a superb stew eaten with a fennel pita). Well the long task, begun with
too much enthusiasm about 1980, is now finally complete and about two
weeks ago our rather too large book was finally published in London by
Kegan Paul International, an old established British publisher of
primarily academic books which has been around for more than a century
and a quarter, as they like to remind me. Since the book was very much
written with the interests of non-Sinologists in mind, comparative
Medievalists in particular, I not only call the attentions of those on
the list so inclined to the book, but also actively solicit your
suggestions and criticisms since, as well be made, clear below, the
project continues. Anyone associated with general Medieval journals who
would like review copies should contact me too and I will pass the
information on to the publisher (or contact them directly at the address
given as CC above). At the end of this posting is the publisher's
official summary of the book if I miss anything here.

The book announced, I come to my second reason for this posting. I and
my team (in this case Buell, Eugene N. Anderson, a young 4 star cook
named Olav Hekala, and Fr. Sabban, the dean of French food historians,
if we can talk her into it) will continue with food research, this time
an annotated and fully introduced translation of the recipes section
from a circa 1369 north Chinese popular encyclopedia. This book not only
contains what seems to be the earliest recognizable Baklava (a
Turkicized derivative from Mongolian Bakhlakh, "to wrap in layers," by
the way)  recipe, but a true food diversity, everything from Islamic
sharbats (called that) to south Chinese leaven recipes. This project,
however, will be only a short-term action as we (the we in this case is
myself, food historian Eugene Anderson, medical historian Paul Unschuld,
medic and medical anthropologist Chris Muench, and science historian
Lisa Raphals) get into an even larger project that I think will truly be
of interest to any and all Western Medievalists. This will be a full
translation and annotation of the four surviving chapters (our of 34
originally, a veritable encyclopedia since the surviving chapters are
some 450 pages) of the Hui-hui yao-fang, "Muslim Medicinal Recipes," a
text associated with Islamic medicine as practiced under the Mongols.

What is interesting about this text is the fact that, although in
Chinese, it is unvarnished Arabic traditional medicine, even with
Arabic-script entries for medicinals and terms otherwise transliterated
into Chinese. Although others have claimed that this work is an
adaptation of Ibn Sina's Canon, our research so far has shown that the
work is, in fact, from one or more Persian language sources and that the
work has a very much practical medical application with little that is
theoretical about it (in contrast to Ibn Sina). Much of the content is,
in fact, not only not theoretical but far in advance of any then
contemporary medicine anywhere in the world. The text's discussion of
burns, for example, is unparalleled and could provide guidance even
today. It is living proof, moreover, that Islamic medicine circa 1300
was not as moribund a tradition as some would have us believe.

One of the things that impresses me the most about this text is the
similarity of much of its content to early Medieval translations from
Arabic texts into Latin and other Spanish languages except that the
Hui-hui yao-fang is a far better translation of its sources and is far
more usable, judging by criticisms I have read of the first Arabic
translations in the West. Which brings me to the purpose of these
jottings and my (brief) reappearance on this list. I am very interested
in establishing contact with any one working in Arabic medicine, in
particular Arabic medicine as transmitted to the West for purposes of
exchanges of information. Please direct any inquiries to the email
addresses below. If you are interested in our book also direct inquires
to the same source and I will tell you where you can get it or find out
more information. Thanks in advance and for reading his long post.

Below, FYI, the publishers summary of our book. The full title is: Paul
D. Buell, Eugene N. Anderson, and Charles Perry, A Soup for the Qan:
Chinese Dietary Medicine of the Mongol Era as Seen in Hu Szu-hui's
Yin-shan Cheng-yao, London, Kegan Paul International, 2000

Paul D. Buell, Seattle, Washington (email as above or
pbuell at titan.cc.wwu.edu)

To be Published March 2000: A Soup for the Qan (ISBN 0 7103
0583 4) by Paul D. Buell, Eugene N. Anderson and Charles Perry

In the tradition of Edward Schafer and Berthold Laufer, this is an
elegant and scholarly study of a remarkable text which brings to
life a long vanished civilization, and adds to our understanding of
practices and concerns which are still of fundamental importance
to us today.  In 1330, the Mongol Emperor Tugh-temur of China - a
descendant of Qubilai-qan - was presented with a dietary manual,
the Yin-shan Cheng-yao, or "Proper and Essential Things for the
Emperor's Food and Drink," written by the imperial dietary
physician Hu Szu-hui.  Since Hu's primary interest and charge was
the medical aspect of nutrition, always a central focus in the
Chinese world, much of the book is an account of the medical
values of foods and recipes, in terms of medieval Chinese
nutritional therapy.

Containing both prescriptions for life and health and instructions for
the preparation of court delicacies, it describes the cuisine of the
era in great detail, disclosing the long-term Chinese assimilation of
foreign foods and foodways, and the effects on China of conquest
and rule by foreigners with only limited interest in Chinese culture.
Food and foodways are sensitive barometers of material and social
conditions, revealing change in process and cultural interactions in
unique ways.

This edition includes a reproduction of the compete
text of the Yin-shan Cheng-yao based primarily upon the 1456
Ming edition but also including surviving fragments from the Yuan
Dynasty original.  For the first time, it is presented here in full
English translation, and also in facsimile Chinese, along with the
text's many woodcut illustrations. A full background and analysis
are provided from the textual, anthropological and culinary points
of view, giving the historical and cultural context, and a detailed
study of the text with sections on Turko-Islamic Influences,
including Islamic materia dietica and medica, and The Chinese
Framework, including the social context of Yin-shan Cheng-yao
foodways.  A special feature is a section on how the recipes
in the book can be adapted for cooking today.  Whether it
is read as a work of history or of anthropology, a translation, a
culinary resource or medical manual, this is an exceptional work,
one that makes a highly important contribution to many fields.


Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:47:05 -0400
From: Richard Keith <keith.78 at osu.edu>
Subject: SC - Mongolian foods long

Greetings, I found this information on Mongolian food on the net.  Thought 
it might be of interest.  PS  If any one has more period Mongolian recipes, 
I would love them for war this year.  I have looked in Stephen's files.

Frederich

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~odmlm/news-3.html

Mongolian and Tibetan Foods and Beverages

Cathy Ang

Because of the unique geographic locations of Mongolia and Tibet, foods and 
beverages of these regions exhibitunique characteristics. However, 
literature in this area is scarce and mostly appear as popular articles 
instead of scientific papers. As an effort to stimulate further studies on 
the subject, I provide a brief introduction of the specialty food and 
beverage items in Mongolia(Part I) in this issue, and Tibet (Part II) in 
the following issue of the newsletter.

Part I. Mongolian Foods and Beverages

A. Dairy Products:

Unlike the Hans in China, dairy products are very important dietary items 
in Mongolia. Dairy products are often referred to as white food and meat 
products or animal flash items are referred to as red food. Traditionally, 
raw materials for white food include milks from cows, horses, sheep, goats, 
camels and reindeers. Horse milk is considered to contain the highest 
valued nutrients. Cow's milk is most popular and it is used for a variety 
of other products. Ten major dairy products are listed below.

1. Liquid butter: It can be made from milk of cows, sheep, goats and 
camels. To make the liquid butter, fresh milk is poured into an earthen jar 
or a wooden barrel and let stand at 20+ oC for 6 to 8 hours with air 
ventilation. The milk is then partially coagulated, becomes light yellow 
and forms a thick, semi-solid layer. The yield is about 2-3 portions of 
liquid butter from 10 portions of milk. The liquid butter can be served 
with sugar and fried millet, in vegetables or tea and as a spread on bread.

2. White butter: There are two ways to make the white butter. One way is to 
put the liquid butter into cheese cloth (course cloth) sag which is then 
hung up to remove the liquid. With stirring, the butter is separated from 
the liquid. Another way is to stir sour milk (yeast fermented) to separate 
the white butter from liquid. Usually it needs stirring for several 
thousands times.

3. Yellow butter: It is made from white butter. Either the fresh or sour 
white butter can be heated in a pot until the yellow butter oil melted and 
separated from the butter cream. Milk from cows, sheep, goats and camels 
can be used for white as well as yellow butter. Mongolian people often take 
a bowl of yellow butter before starting a long journey. It can also be 
served with pan fried millet and pan cakes.

4. Milk tofu: It can be made from either raw or cooked milk. To make raw 
milk tofu, milk is placed in a warm place to become fermented. Use a ladle 
to stir it occasionally until it is coagulated and forms tofu-like texture. 
Transfer the contents to a mold or a sag to remove the liquid and let it 
air dry. To make cooked milk tofu, the liquid from making the white butter 
(or the liquid from making milk film) is fermented, coagulated and filtered 
through a cheese cloth sag The coagulated milk is heated with stirring 
until it becomes thick. It is then placed in a cloth sag and pressed out of 
yellow liquid. The solid part is placed in a wooden mold to form square or 
rectangular shapes and let air dry. The best type of milk tofu is white in 
color. The product is often air-dried for storage and prevention of 
molding. The dried milk tofu is used for milk tea, for shepherds and long 
distance travelers.

5. Milk film (milk leather): Heat fresh milk in a pot at low temperature 
with stirring until foams occur. After cooling, a layer of cream is 
coagulated on top. It is removed as a film (skin) which is then air-dried 
in a well ventilated place

6. Sour milk: It can be made from raw milk or cooked milk. Place milk in 
jars at 18 o C or above and allow it to ferment for about two days. The 
milk appears to form chucks. The sour milk made from cook milk (milk is 
boiled first) is slightly sour.

7. Milk tea: It is also referred to as the Mongolia tea, the most important 
beverage for the shepherds. To make the milk tea, the brick tea is crushed 
into pieces followed by boiling in water for 3 minutes with constant 
stirring. Fresh milk is slowly added to the tea at a proportion of one part 
of milk to 3 to 6 parts of water. A little of salt may be added. Milk tea 
is sometimes served by adding pan fried millet.

8. Milk wine: It can be made with any type of milk but the most valuable 
and famous milk wine is made from the horse milk. Raw milk in a wooden 
barrel or porcelain jar is allowed to ferment and separated from fat. The 
fermented milk (without top layer fat) is transferred into a pot equipped 
with a set of the distillation devise (consisting of a bucket of cold water 
placed above two brick jars) covered around with towels. The pot is heated 
at high temperature. The evaporated alcohol will condense underneath the 
cold water bucket and drip into the brick jars. The most expensive horse 
wine is fermented and distillated over six times. Horse milk tastes sour, 
sweet and slightly bitter

9. Cheese: After removal of the yellow butter, the buttermilk part is let 
fermented in a warm place until the milk is coagulated as chunks and 
pieces. It resembles cottage cheese

10. Milk pie: After the cheese is getting sour, add sugar and flour 
followed by shaping and baking. Milk pie is used as a dessert

B. Grain Products.

1. Millet: Millet is one of the most important grain products in Mongolia. 
It can be cooked with water as the way for cooking rice. It may be cooked 
with higher proportions of water to make congee. However, the most unique 
product is the pan fried millet. With kernels removed, pan fried millet is 
used as a type of ready-to-serve cereal. It is a common practice in 
Mongolia to add pan fried millet to milk tea for serving

2. Fried flour: The common types of grain in Mongolian diet are buckwheat, 
wheat, oat and millet. The fried flour is made by frying grain flour at low 
heat and adding sugar. The fried flour is used as a dry staple

3. Millet and flour cookies: Fried millet and fried flour are mixed 
together and added with sugar, yellow butter, and milk. Cookies are then 
formed by hand and baked
.
4. Fried pie: Mix flour, yellow butter, egg and sugar. Forms pie shape and 
pan fry.

5. Steamed layer bread: Steam the pie batter until done.

C. Animal meat products

Livestock raised in Mongolia include wild horse, sheep, goat, cow and 
camel. However, not much beef, pork or horse meat are consumed. The most 
popular meat items are the goat and sheep's muscle parts. The lamb can be 
barbecued as a whole lamb, grilled or boiled in smaller pieces. There are 
also smoked meat and dried meat items

D. Tea drinks

Teas in Mongolia are categorized into three types by color. The red tea of 
the Chinese Hans is referred to as black tea in Mongolia, the Jasmine tea 
as yellow tea and the brick tea as blue tea. Among these teas, the brick 
tea is the most popular type because of its convenient in carrying around. 
Most of the brick teas are from India. Tea drinking is very natural and 
important in Mongolia. Tea beverages such as milk tea (described in 
previous sections ) are for three meals a day, for serving to guests, for 
snack times and for thirsty. Some locally grown plants (their flower, 
leaves and stems) are also used as tea drinks.


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Mongolian cooking
Organization: Verio MidAtlantic
From: corun at clark.net (Corun MacAnndra)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:45:04 GMT

For those interested in period Mongolian and Chinese cuisine there is
a book out there for you. The book is called Soup for the Qan, and is
a translation of the Yin Shan Zheng Yao, a cookbook that comes from the
court of Kublai Khan. I will caution all and sundry that this book has
undergone a revision, and the new edition is due to hit the bookstands
some time in April 2000. The current ISBN is 0 7103 0583 4, and the
authors are Paul D. Beull and Eugene N. Anderson.

Here's a short blurb about the book from the Kegan Paul International
site in England;

> This is a complete translation of the medieval Chinese dietary Yin-Shan 
> cheng-yao (1330), with full notes and supporting text, along with a
> monograph-sized introduction. The Chinese original is the first dietary 
> manual of its sort in Chinese history, and is of particular interest on
> account of substantial Mongolian, Turkic, and general Islamic influence.
> The purpose of the translation is to make an important work of the
> Chinese herbal tradition generally available, placed in its proper
> historical and culturla context, and to make a contribution to the study
> of traditional East Asian foodways in a broader context. The translation
> will be the first of its kind and should substantially alter previously
> held views on Chinese interactions with non-Chinese cultures, including
> China's Mongol conquerors and their key Turkic allies.
 
You can get the current edition at Amazon and Borders, with the latter 
vendor being less expensive. Amazon sells the book for $127. Borders has 
it for about $93 and change. However, these prices may change when the new
edition hits. Also, Borders has it on Special Order only.

Corun


From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
To: <sca-east at indra.com>, "SCA-Cooks" <Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
    <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:30:13 -0400

Paul Buell's new book, "Historical Dictionary of the Mongol World Empire" is out, and I think it's a great resource for SCAdians interested in the Mongol empire. In addition to being set up as a dictionary, with thoughtful entries on any number of topics, it contains six essays which give an excellent overview of the Mongol influence in period, as well as appendices on Mongolian scripts, Mongolian vocabulary, and a collection of recipes from the Yinshan Zhengyao (1330), as well as a great bibliography for those of us who want to learn more.

Paul, while not SCA himself, tried very hard to get the publishers to offer a pre-publication discount to SCAdians, but in their infinite wisdom, they KNEW that only libraries and universities would buy it, and after some discussion, we have decided to ask you a favor when you order the book. At the bottom of the order form online, there's a section which reads, "Additional Instructions". Please add in words to the effect of, "By the way, I'm not a library, I'm in the SCA, and I'm buying this book because of my interest in historical recreation". We're hoping that if enough people do this, it will occur to these people that, yes, there IS a market for historical information beyond academia, and they'll keep their promise to Paul to offer his books to us at a discount next time.

The least expensive way to order is from the publisher. Go to:

http://www.scarecrowpress.com/Catalog/ 
SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=^DB
/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0810845717

(Or go to www.scarecrowpress.com and put "buell" in the search engine,  
if your browser won't take that URL)

And read the review. If you want to order it, click on "add to cart" and
follow the instructions, just like you might with any other online  
purchase.

If you buy it from them, they give you 15% off the List price- s/h is  
$4.00 for the first copy, $1 for each additional copy.

I think you'll like it, folks- I've read it, and I'm very impressed. It's not so scholarly that it's incoherent, it simply gives you the information, simply and straightforwardly.

Phlip


From: KazOShea at aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:07:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongol Feast Questions
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I was an n assistant cook for a documentable Mongol feast, and I helped to
plan out some of the dishes and had mentioned to the head cook that there was a
real lack of anything vegetarian friendly. Well that is the way teh Mongols
cooked in period, they were no vegetarians,everything had meat meat and more
meat just in case there was not enough meat in it. To take it out of fully
documented but in a period style you could use some of the fake meat broths, I
have used them and there is not an appreciable diffrence in flavor from using a
meat stock. If ou are going to strictly to Mongol and strictly to period
recipes you are out of luck for vegetarian friendly.

Iago


Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 02:12:35 -0400
From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Fw: [Sca-cooks] Mongol Feast Questions
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

As I mentioned, I asked Paul Buell about Mongolian vegetarian dishes, 
And camel dishes.

> Mongol recipes did not include a lot of vegetarian ones. Mostly, they simply
> did not have the vegetables available in Mongolia. Sorry, not part of the
> tradition.
>
> No more information about how the Mongols cooked camel meat, alas.
> Hope this helps. Paul

We discussed it for a while late last night, and he said that Mongols just
didn't eat many vegetables or grains- they didn't have them, unless they
ransacked some town or another- and even then, they didn't eat much.

It wasn't until late into their period that wines were drunk- kumiss 
was the preferred beverage.

As far as camel, he's unaware of any recipes in the areas he's been
studying, but he will ask around. In the meantime, I think I'll ask Gene
Anderson- he has other areas of interest, and might have some ideas.

Saint Phlip,
CoDoLDS


Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 01:55:49 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongol Feast Questions
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> Well that is the way the Mongols
> cooked in period, they were not vegetarians,everything had meat meat and
> more meat just in case there was not enough meat in it.
> If you are going to strictly to Mongol and strictly to period
> recipes you are out of luck for vegetarian friendly.
>
> Iago

Actually, this is different from many of the more archaeological and cultural
references I've seen on the nomads of the Steppes. I was just reading up
on it the other day. Although you are correct in the documented sources of
Mongol feasting, I feel this does not reflect the true Mongol or Steppes nomad
diet. Meat was a real treat and the more meat served the greater the honor
given to the guest. Especially if the meat came from valuable animals such
as a male or pregnant female. Remember, to the average nomad, the size of
your herd was your wealth. To eat from this constantly was to drain them of
wealth.

Much of the nomadic diet contained millet that was casually cultivated. By
This I mean they would scatter the seeds in certain places and hope there 
Were plants when they came back. Milk and milk products were also very common.
Everyone is familiar with kumiss or kwass, fermented milk. But they also drank
defatted milk (sort of like a skim milk) as well as yoghurts and simple
cheeses.

Gathered fruits and vegetables were eaten. Often mixed into the millet porridge
or cheese/yoghurt mixes. There were cases of a dried yoghurt cheese. I recall
a type of pasta that was dried in large cubes and grated into boilng liquid.
Master A knows more about this.

Some of the meat dishes included a hide kept whole and the meat chopped up.
Then the meat was placed back into the hide with the hide sewn up and a
large tube fitted in. A pit was dug and a fire lit. Once the coals had burned down or rocks were added to stay hot the hide was placed into the pit and 
covered with the pipe left sticking out. As the meat cooked the juices and icky fats and such would bubble out of the pipe. When the pipe bubbled clean, the meat was dug up and enjoyed.

There are also reports of meat placed on sticks with onion and garlic and
roasted.

Here are some areas to check:

Tender Meat Under the Saddle. Customs of Eating, Drinking, and Hospitality Among
Conquering Hungarian's and Nomadic Peoples. Krems. 1998 ISBN 3-90 1094 10 5

Medieval Arab Cookery, Essays and Translations by Maxime Rodinson, A.J. Arberry,
and Charles Perry. Prospect 2001  ISBN 0907325 91 2

Book of Dede Korkut. Geoffrey Lewis. Penguin Books, Canada 1979
ISBN 0140442987

God's Banquet, Food in Classical Arabic Literature.  Geert Jan Van Gelder.
Columbia University Press. 2000 ISBN 0 231 11948 8

I hope this gives a slightly better overview of nomadic people's diets.

Gunthar


Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:22:07 +0800
From: drakey2 at iinet.net.au
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongolian cooking documentation
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> -=The Seamus wrote:
>> I am in a Seige cook-off comp. on sat. and with the ingredents that
>> they will be giving us it lends it self to mongolian cooking...
>>
>> Does anyone have any recpies/documention for mongolian dishes handy?
>>
>> I have found a few but more are always welcome!
> Your best bet is to find a copy of "Soup for the Qan"...it contains
> translations of period Mongolian recipes, and is excellent.

Don't forget that not only do we have the 2 sources already mentioned but Paul
Buell also wrote an article called something like Turkicisation of Mongol Food
and Foodways.  It's got a couple of dessert recipes that are conspicuously
absent from the manuscripts contained within a Soup for the Qan and the PPC
article.

Drakey.


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:58:03 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongol measure?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I went online and did some searching and found a "tau" listed as a Mongoian
> measure. I have a feeling my friend found a badly-translated (babblefish?)
> page. It mentions cooking marmots, rather than gerbils, so....
>
> Hrothny

I'd love to see this recipe.  Could you post the URL?

In the meantime, I bet the "tau" is actually "tou" or about 317 cubic
inches.  If you want to checkout some of the weights and measures for
Mongolian cooking, take a look at the Silver Horde website:

http://www.viahistoria.com/SilverHorde/main.html?research/ 
MostlyMongolianCooking.html

Bear


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:06:29 -0500
From: "afoil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongol measure?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I just hit Google. I never knew there was so much to know about gerbils!

I rather think that marmot is a better translation, since even today Mongols
hunt and eat marmots. See http://www.e-mongol.com/mongolia_nature.htm among
other pages.

Cynara


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:10:48 -0500
From: "Terri Morgan" <nothingbutadame at inthe.sca.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Mongol measure?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I'd love to see this recipe.  Could you post the URL?
> In the meantime, I bet the "tau" is actually "tou" or
> about 317 cubic inches.  If you want to checkout some
> of the weights and mesures for Mongolian cooking,
> take a look at the Silver Horde website:

http://www.viahistoria.com/SilverHorde/main.html?research/MostlyMongolianCooking.html

> Bear

Thanks - that matches what I just told my friend (and I sent him to that
exact websie just now). Here's what he wrote to me:

**********
I saved this as I thought is was cool, but cannot get back to the  
website.

" Catch many of the mice of the Hairy Tail (gerbils 1 tan clean), finely
ground coriander (one liang), onions (ten stalks), pices (five ch’ien).
Apply [coriander, onions and spices] uniformly to ingredients and roast. One
may dress the hairy mice in a thick flour with fuang and steam-roast until
done in a cage; this is also possible. One may dress the hairy mice with
liquid butter combined with flour, and brazier cook in a brazier; this is
also possible.”
... “MIce of the Hairy Tail meat is best in fall, when they are fat for the
long sleep.  It is rich, brown and crackles when fried. It supplements the
center and augents ch’i. It is beneficial eaten broiled dipped in salt
broth water and roots. Of the white foods best with airag."

Got this from a Iraqi article on a Arabic historian, Ibn Battua. I ran  it
through the translater program at work as it was written in Persian. The
program did not recognise Tan, Liang, Ch'ien, airag, Fuang. I think from  my
readings on other sites that "white foods" is a dairy product of some  
sort.

********

So my guess that it was a translation problem is probably right.

Thank you, everyone, for the help!
Now if I can just keep my fingers crossed that he won't take me up on that
offer to help him make kumiss (airag)...

Hrothny


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:27:18 -0500
From: Robin Carrol-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongol measure?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Terri Morgan wrote:
> ... “MIce of the Hairy Tail meat is bes in fall, when they are fat for the
> long sleep.  It is rich, brown and crackles when fried. It supplements the
> center and augments ch’i. It is beneficial eaten broiled dipped in salt
> broth water and roots. Of the white foods best with airag.

[snip]

I Googled some of the phrases in this recipe, and came across a SCA
website that has an almost identical recipe, except that the meat is
identified as Eurasian curlew, which is a bird. The original is
attributed to "Soup for the Qan".
http://ww.geocities.com/kaganate/food.html
-- 
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:02:59 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] mongolian food....RE:  Mutton:  Was Small Numbers
To: <alysk at ix.netcom.com>,	"'Cooks within the SCA'"
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

There's mutton and there's marmot, I'm told....

Check out my friends webpage...she's done a ton of research on Mongolian
cooking...
http://www.9v.com/crystal/kerij-e/default.htm

--AM, who is partial to the scallion pancake things :)

Malkin wrote:
> I still have not settled on a food theme. Mongols appear to have survived
> mostly on mutton, and after my youth-life of summers spent working on sheep
> ranches, I can not abide the smell or taste of mutton.


Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mongolian meat cakes
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

> If the mongols had used cheese in medieval meat
> cakes, wouldn't it have been something like green
> mare's milk cheese? Something curdled fresh on
> horseback, close to cottage cheese?
>
> ~Aislinn~

The Mongols were migratory herders and did indeed do
some preservation of foodstuffs, cheese being one of
the easiest foods to preserve.  If it was something
that is used for grating then it would definitely be
aged or sun-dried.

One of the basic recipes, which the Romans used as
well, was to make a curd, drain it, and spread it out
in the sun to dry into hardened sheets.  These were
then either ground up or grated into a food that would
reconstitute it to some degree.  People today do a
sort-of similar version by putting dollops of drained
yogurt on a plate or tray and placing that in the
refrigerator (uncovered) to dry out.

It is thought that the cheese called Cacciocavallo was
originally created by the Mongols as it was something
that could easily be slung across a pack animal,
saddle, or tent pole as it traveled and aged.
Unfortunately it is merely speculation.  It's one of
those cheeses that has been around for so long that no
one's quite sure where it began.  On top of that, it's
named after it's shape - not a recipe so while what we
have available under that name today may come close to
the correct shape the flavor/texture/milk could be all
wrong.

There are also cheeses that were made in the stomach
of the goat or sheep and were left to age there for
transport purposes.  This cheese was so full of the
active enzyme in rennet that your tongue is just
assaulted with it. Imagine the "sharpness" of cheddar
magnified about 30 times over.  Just the thought makes
me pucker.

These are all of the aged ones that I have been able
to find that could have conceivably been used by the
Mongols.  Fresh cheeses would have included yogurt,
sour cream, possibly a feta-style, and a few others.
I'm working on the cheeses for a
Persian/Iranian/African trade route feast our Barony
is holding in a few weeks.  The Head Cook is serving
camel.

Eibhlin


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 06:54:07 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that "Soup" is all wrong for the
location.  It is definitely Mongolian, despite the fact that the recipes
were written down by a Chinese gentleman...he was physician to Kublai Khan,
and much of the book deals with stuff to keep the Khan happy and healthy.
So it is definitely period.  You need a rice or noodle dish, right?  I don't
have any of those specifically, but I can offer this one, which is quite
tasty (and you can find the weird ingredients in a good oriental grocery
store...note that it is  not from the main body of the book, but from a
monograph that Paul Buell sent me, and is actually from Chu-chia pi-yung
shih lei (A late 14th c. household encyclopedia).  This was, according to
Buell's monograph, written a little later than Yin-shan cheng-yao (Good and
Essential Things for the Emperor's Food and Drink), and was for popular
Chinese consumption rather than for Court use as was the case for the
former.  This recipe is part of the "Muslim" recipes from that book.  All of
this is Mongol in that, firstly, this was one of the periods when the
Mongols ruled China (Yuan Dynasty), and is one of many examples that
illustrate the influence Chinese and Middle Eastern food ideas and
methodologies on Mongol cuisine.

Rolled Thin Pancakes

Spread out thin wafers.  Set out walnuts, pine nuts, peach kernels, hazel
nuts, tender lotus seeds [Nelumbium speciiosum], dried persimmons, lotus
rhizome, gingko fruits, prepared chestnuts, badam [Per:  almonds]. Except
for the yellow of the chestnuts, to be cut into strips, cut everything up
finely.  Combine with crystallized honey.  Add pulverized lamb, ground
ginger, salt, onions, and combine.  Make the filing.  Put into thin wafers.
Fry in oil.

Lumpia  wrappers
2 tsp. Ground Walnuts
2 tsp. Ground Pine nuts
2 tsp. Peach kernels (used slivered almonds, ground )
2 tsp. Ground Hazelnuts
--Lotus seeds (omit?couldn't find)
4 tsp. Dried persimmons, finely chopped
2 tsp. Lotus rhizome, finely chopped
4 tsp. Gingko fruit, finely chopped
2 tsp. Prepared chestnuts, cut into strips
1 tbsp. Crystallized honey
1# Ground lamb
1 tsp. Ground ginger
1 tsp. Salt
1/2 small Onion
Oil

Chop walnuts, pine nuts, almonds, hazelnuts, persimmons and gingko finely.
Cut the chestnuts into strips.  Mix together with the crystallized honey.
Add the ground lamb, ginger, salt, and onions and mix together thoroughly.
Place filling in wrappers, and roll the wrappers up tightly.   Fry in  
peanut oil.

Kiri

PS:  There are a number of noodle recipes in Soup...I just haven't redacted
them.  One of the ones that occurs in several books, including Soup is
"Tutam Ash" and "Chuqmin Noodles".  The second of these sounds quite tasty,
except that it calls for "innards"...sheep intestines and lungs!  If you
need copies of these, let me know,


On 8/24/07, KristiWhyKelly at aol.com <KristiWhyKelly at aol.com> wrote:
> My menu need some serious tweaking, and I've been asked to include  
> period 'Eastern' recipes, specifically rice or noodle dishes.
>
> My only source for that region was _A soup for the Qan_ which is
> apparently all wrong for the location, which is Mongolian.
>
> Any ideas for sources or dishes?  I'm pretty desperate now.
>
> Grace


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:19:23 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Aug 23, 2007, at 11:46 PM, KristiWhyKelly at aol.com wrote:
> My menu need some serious tweaking, and I've been asked to include
> period 'Eastern' recipes, specifically rice or noodle dishes.
>
> My only source for that region was _A soup for the Qan_ which is
> apparently all wrong for the location, which is Mongolian.
>
> Any ideas for sources or dishes?  I'm pretty desperate now.

I'm a little confused between your subject line and the actual
question... am I right in thinking you're looking for non-Mongolian
Asian dishes? If so, "A Soup for the Qan" might easily apply to much
of Yuan Dynasty China (probably not the far south or east, places now
known as, say Quangdong or Shanghai, but then China is a big place).

Please note that rice or noodle dishes might not be found quite where
we might expect them, looking from a modern perspective, since
availability by trade of various items might not have been in period
what it is today. So, for example, there are probably not too many
Mongolian rice dishes: where would they get it and why would they
carry it? Similarly, in the south of China, you're probably less
likely to find wheat noodle recipes than you are those for, say, some
version of cellophane or bean starch noodles.

There are a few noodle references in Ni Tsan's Cloud Forest Hall
Collection of Rules for Eating And Drinking, which, as I recall, is
from 14th-century East central China. There's a pretty
straightforward recipe for wheat noodles, which it then directs you
to serve in broth or sauce, one for cold stirred noodles in a fish or
shrimp, soy and vinegar sauce, one for gluten noodles in what to me
looks like a pretty complex sauce with lots of ingredients ;-), and a
reference to using cellophane noodles as a substrate for steaming
crabmeat; the noodles are removed when the dish is cool, and
presumably discarded.

In the same source there are enough rice references to suggest the
author and any potential readers were familiar with rice, but not
many recipes that aren't for rice wine: it refers to rice porridge
and suggests one recipe as a condiment/topping; presumably there were
other toppings, just as there are today. There are also a couple of
filled wheat bun, bread/pancake-type items, and wontons.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:16:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Would you ask your requestor WHY Soup for the Qan was not appropriate?
The description for the book is
"This volume?s original was written by an imperial dietary doctor who
detailed foods and their medicinal values in those days and he presented
this information to the Mongol Emperor Tu-temur who ruled from 1328 to
1332 C.E. The Buell/Anderson translation of the 1456 C.E. edition
provides page by page translation with copies of each original page and
a page-by-page commentary. Included are more than two hundred recipes
and court delicacies, dietetic materials, and more. After them is an
Appendix called Materia Dietetica et Medica and another section by
Charles Perry called Grain Foods of the Early Turks (who were neighbors
of the Mongol court)."

As a librarian I am wondering if they have seen an actual copy of the
book or are relying on hearsay.
I know the book is very expensive and that copies were not available for
a number of years due to the publisher keeping OS.

Johnnae

KristiWhyKelly at aol.com wrote:
> No, I'm looking for Mongolian recipes.
>
> And the request was for rice or noodle dish.  And I was told by the
> requestor that _Soup_ was not a proper source for Mongolian  
> dishes.  So, if  I can find another period source I would be greatful.
>
> Thanks  Grace


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:33:04 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Dear, I think you're asking for the impossible. As I read you, you're
asking for either Mongolian food that isn't Mongolian, or
non-Mongolian food that is Mongolian.

If you read more, you'll discover that early period Mongolians didn't
do rice and noodles until they started conquering China. Once they did
conquer much of China (and other places) they started to adopt the
foods of their conquered nations, so Soup for the Qan is very
appropriate for later period Mongols.

Early Mongols were steppe people, and other than by conquest, their
diet consisted of mainly found foods and the products of their herds.
It was only later that grains and flours became part of their diet.

If you want Mongolian noodles and/or rice, you need to look at Soup  
for the Qan.

On 8/24/07, KristiWhyKelly at aol.com <KristiWhyKelly at aol.com> wrote:
> No, I'm looking for Mongolian recipes.
>
> And the request was for rice or noodle dish.  And I was told by the
> requestor that _Soup_ was not a proper source for Mongolian  
> dishes.  So, if  I can find another period source I would be greatful.
>
> Grace


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:50:14 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Maybe what you need is something like
*Imperial Mongolian Cooking: Recipes from the Kingdoms of Genghis Khan
*by Marc Cramer.

Not period or very historical but maybe it's good enough for your feast
given its parameters and restrictions on using Soup for the Qan.

Johnnae

KristiWhyKelly at aol.com wrote:
> Any idea of how to stop the discussion of Rowan's research on the list?  I
> so don't want to get into this subject.  I just want some  recipes.
>  Thanks for your help,   Grace


Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:13:02 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any period Mongolian recipes out there?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Even the book that Lady Johnna mention, *Imperial Mongolian Cooking: Recipes  
from the Kingdoms of Genghis Khan" contains recipes that are very much like  
what you find in Soup.

I did locate one recipe in Soup that appears to be pretty much traditional
Mongolian, though it's not noodles:

*32. Roast Wolf Soup*

  Ancient *pen-ts'ao* do not include entries on wolf meat.  At present we
state that its nature is heating.  It treats asthenia.  I hae never heard
that it is poinonous for those eating it.  In the case of the present recipe
we use spices to help its flavor.  It warms the five internal organs and
warms the center.

  Wolf meat (leg; bone and cut up), tsaoko cardamoms (three), black pepper
(five *c'ien*), *kasni* (one *ch'ien*), turmeric (two *chi'en*),
*za'faran *(one *ch'ien*).

Boil ingredients together into a soup.  Adjust flavors of everything using
onions, sauce, salt and vinegar. 

It is believed to be traditional Mongolian by Buell as the Chinese weren't
eating this sort of "critters" at this point (including dog), and Muslims
would have been upset at the idea of eating meat of this sort.  Beyond this,
I'm afraid I can't be of much assistance.  You might try contacting the
Silver Horde at mongol at NYCMongol.com.  I know that the head of the Horde,
"Puppy" has a lady who just got her Maunche for Mongolian research,
including cookery.

Kiri

*7.      **Cooking Wonton*

Chop the meat finely.  Add riced bamboo shoots or wild-rice shots, chives,
or *Basella rubra *tips.  Use Szechuan pepper and a bit of apricot kernel
paste.  Wrap.  The skins should start out thick and small when cut out.  Then
flour them and roll them out.  (When stuffed) put into fully boiling water.
Stir; do not cover.  When they float up, take them out, stirring no longer.
Do not use Chinese Cardamom in the filling, except to warm the *ch'i*.

Note:  In the subsequent edition of *Petits Propros Culinaire*, #61,
Francoise Sabban, a French professor who specializes in Chinese food and
culture, made some corrections to the translation by Wang and  
Anderson.  The corrections to this recipe are:

' "The skins should start out thick and small, *then cut into squares*".  The
last part of the last sentence does not mean "except to warm the *ch'i*" but
"*if you add Amomum villosum Lour.* (which is not exactly 'cardamom') *you
will have hiccups*", as the Chinese editors explain it, and as every
dictionary confirms it.'

Redaction

1 lb. Ground beef
1/4 cup Bamboo shoots, finely chopped
3 tsp. Chives
1/2 tsp Szechuan pepper
1/2 cup Apricot kernel paste  (use almond paste instead)
1/2 tsp salt
Won ton wrappers

Mix all ingredients except wonton wrappers thoroughly.  Form mixture into
small balls and wrap in wrappers.  Drop dumplings into boiling water, and
stir gently.  Remove them when they float to the surface.


Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:33:15 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Musing on Mongol
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net> wrote:

<<< I have managed to get a copy of the first article published in the PPC some years ago, although i've never seen the follow up article which was
published one or two issues later (anyone have that?)

Not much vegetarian among them. They follow clearly Chinese cooking
techniques and i look forward to making some, but nearly all involved meat
in some way. I had been hoping there'd be more vegetarian recipes among
them.

However, this makes me think that having a course of "fringe" foods might
work, or one or two "fringe" dishes in each course - both purely Arabic and
purely Chinese, and maybe a Turkish recipe or two - might help diversify the
food for non-meat eaters. 
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
>>>

If you look at some of the recipes that Paul cites in his information about
the work prior to the actual translation, you will find some recipes that
influenced what was done.  IIRC there is at least one really wonderful fried
spinach dish that's very similar to a European one, only differing in
seasonings.  It would also not be unreasonable to include a Middle Eastern
veggie dish or two.  Same, same with using the Cloud Hall ms.  Mongol
cookery was heavily influenced by both of these, so their inclusion would
not be much of a stretch at all.  In fact, in the feast where I featured the
Mongol recipes, I did just this to get a few vegetarian dishes.

Here is the recipe for the spinach dish, along with my redaction and notes:
*
p. 76.  #8.  Isfanakh Mutajjan*

**Cut off the lower roots and wash spinach.  Dry after boiling lightly in
salted water.  Fry spinach in refined sesame oil until fragrant.  Add
chopped garlic.  Season by sprinkling with finely-ground cumin, coriander
and cinnamon.

5 oz. Spinach
1/2 tsp. Salt
Water
1 T. Sesame oil
1/2 clove Garlic, finely chopped
1/8 tsp. Cumin, ground
1/8 tsp. Coriander
1/8 tsp. Cinnamon

Thoroughly wash the spinach.  Steam the spinach very lightly with salted
water. Stir fry spinach in sesame oil until fragrant.  Stir in finely
chopped garlic and mixture of cumin, cilantro and cinnamon (Chinese cassia)

Note:  This particular recipe was not part of the Mongol treatise, but
rather from another group of Muslim recipes that were included in the book
to show the relationship between the two cuisines.  In a conversation with
Dr. Buell, he indicated to me that this was probably transported to China
well within our period and came into common use there.
This is a fairly common recipe...very similar in seasonings to Saag, a
Mughal dish, and only differs in seasoning from several European spinach
dishes, Spynoches yfryed, for example, from A Forme of Curye.  As I know you
know, there was so much "cross pollination" in that part of the world that
who's to say what recipes were served where, especially after the Mongols
conquered China!

Kiri
I also suspect that your recipe for Jazr would be compatible as well.


Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 06:53:47 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bean Paste in Soup for the Qan
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I've been meaning to pass this along to the list for about a week...

After i asked the list about the bean paste in "A Soup for the Qan", 
i wrote to Paul Buell and Eugene Anderson. Gene said the bean paste 
would have been made with mung bean starch.

This is what is used to make what are variously called "cellophane 
noodles", "glass noodles", and, IIRC, "bean threads" or "bean thread 
noodles". In ASftQ it is apparently made into a paste, and often 
mixed with other ingredients, so buying glass noodles wouldn't 
necessarily be the same.

I figure, if someone else is making SCA-period Chinese or Mongol 
food, this would be helpful to know.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

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