fd-Jewish-msg - 3/16/08 Jewish medieval food. Sources. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: Jews-msg, Khazars-msg, Jewsh-Holiday-art, T-H-Dreidel-art, Islamic-Feast-art, Maimonides-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: James and/or Nancy Gilly <KatieMorag at worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:27:25 +0000 Subject: SC - [fwd] [EK] Jewish Recipes of the Spanish Inquisition From the Eastrealm's mailing list - thought this might prove of interest: From: donna amato-salvacion <donna at npsa.com> To: sca-east at world.std.com Subject: [EK] Jewish Recipes of the Spanish Inquisition Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 14:05:16 +0000 Not that I want to start up the Religious ire of the list again. but this is a very interesting article. http://search.nytimes.com/web/docsroot/yr/mo/day/news/style/spanish-passover.html April 16, 1997 Jewish Recipes of the Spanish Inquisition By ANDREE BROOKS It was a few days before Passover in 1503 in northern Spain. Angelina de Leon was kneading a dough of white flour, eggs and olive oil, flavored with pepper and honey. She formed walnut-size balls, flattening them into round cakes and pricking them with a fork. Maria Sancho, the family maid, was watching. This was exactly the sort of recipe that the Inquisition authorities had told servants to report. Maria had also seen her mistress soaking and salting meat before placing it into the stew pot. All of which would provide proof that this was a household of secret Jews -- Jews who had ostensibly converted to Catholicism under pressure from the Church but who had clung to their Jewish rituals. Maria's detailed account of the preparation and cooking of meals, along with similar testimony by informants at other Inquisition trials, has left a rare opportunity for contemporary cooks to recreate the Jewish cuisine of 16th-century Spain. The recreations represent the combined labors of Dr. Linda Davidson, a writer on medieval life and an adjunct professor of Spanish at the University of Rhode Island, and her husband, Dr. David M. Gitlitz, a professor of Hispanic studies there and a specialist in crypto-Jewish culture. They have gathered 85 recipes from testimony and have tested about 50. The testimony rarely included measurements and often used generalized terms, like spices, without specific names. So, they turned to other sources: the handful of cookbooks still around from that era, bookkeeping ledgers used in patrician households of the day, travelers' journals and poems written to raise awareness of covert Jewish practices. Consider this poem, from the wedding feast of a nobleman's daughter: At this Jewish wedding party bristly pig was not consumed; not one single scaleless fish went down the gullet of the groom; instead, an eggplant casserole with saffron and Swiss chard; and whoever swore by Jesus from the meatball pot was barred. Even so, calculating each ingredient took trial and error, "filling our compost heap with all sorts of stuff we couldn't eat," Davidson said. Sometimes she removed an ingredient, like rue, a salad leaf, or pennyroyal, a variety of mint, as both have toxic properties. Sometimes she substituted a tool, like a food processor for a wooden hand masher when preparing parsley or cilantro juice. There were some surprises. One was discovering the way in which the secret Jews seemed not to adhere to certain Jewish dietary laws while meticulously following others. For example, the Biblical ban against eating meat with milk does not seem to have been followed, for the prohibition was not found in testimony. Lungs, tripe and intestines, equally prohibited, were also eaten. But these Jews eliminated animal blood, another restriction, Gitlitz said. And ritual slaughter and meat preparation were so strictly followed that they were high on the Inquisition's list of clues for Christians to detect hidden Jewish practices. The couple concluded that lamb and beef were the favorite meats among the secret Jews and that chickpeas, eggplant and chard were recognized as Jewish vegetables. These Jews also loved cinnamon and sugar on almost everything, Dr. Davidson said, even stews and fish. Vinegar was "very, very important," she added. Two types were used: a balsamic vinegar and a vinegar made from leftover red wine. Spices were used in quantities that Davidson could hardly believe. "Lots and lots of cilantro, lots and lots of saffron," she said. Perfumed waters, like rose or orange, were popular flavor enhancers, too. Ground almonds served as thickeners. Favorite desserts were turron, an almond nougat; marzipan, and quince paste. And the cooks were highly color-conscious, Davidson said, often naming dishes based on color, like "green stew." But they rarely did their own baking. Fires were a hazard in the cramped wooden places where most lived. So, they would take their prepared foods to a communal oven for baking. Gitlitz speculated that Angelina probably took her pans of matzohs, hidden under other foods in a basket, to a more affluent secret Jew who might have had enough property for an outdoor oven. A few weeks ago, the couple cooked a typical 16th-century Spanish meal that might have been served on the first night of Passover: Angelina's matzohs, with vermilioned eggs; roasted lamb in a coating of chard, mint, garlic and egg; chickpeas cooked with honey, onions and spices, and turron for dessert. Excluded was haroseth, the paste of dates, raisins, honey, walnuts, orange juice and cinnamon regularly eaten at this ritual meal nowadays. "It was never mentioned anywhere," Gitlitz said. "Some of these customs may not have been as widespread as we would like to think." Following are recipes gleaned from the testimony, including an egg recipe of Pedro de la Cavalleria, a finance minister to the King of Aragon until he was caught repeatedly celebrating the Jewish Sabbath with foods identified with Jews of the day. Angelina de Leon's Matzohs Total time: 30 minutes 4 cups white flour 1 tablespoon black pepper 4 large eggs (beaten) 6 tablespoons honey 4 teaspoons olive oil 8 tablespoons water. 1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees. In large mixing bowl, combine flour and pepper. Mix well. 2. Combine eggs, honey, olive oil and just enough water to make a very dry dough. Mix well; do not overmix. 3. Divide into 12 equal portions, and shape into balls. On lightly floured surface, roll each ball into a thin disk about 8 inches in diameter. Pierce all over with fork. 4. Bake on cookie sheets for 10 minutes, or until matzohs are puffed and begin to brown. Cool on racks. Note: For Orthodox Jews conforming to contemporary kosher standards, matzoh cake meal may be substituted for the flour. Though it does not roll out as well, it is still acceptable. The researchers suggest using 1.5 times as much water and cooking for three minutes longer. Yield: 12 eight-inch matzohs. Approximate nutritional analysis per serving: 220 calories, 4 grams fat, 70 milligrams cholesterol, 20 milligrams sodium, 6 grams protein, 40 grams carbohydrate. Pedro de la Cavalleria's Vermilioned Eggs (Huevos Haminados) Total time: 3 hours 15 minutes 6 cups yellow onion skins 12 large white eggs 1/2 cup white vinegar. 1. In large nonreactive pan, put half the onion skins. Gently place eggs on top, then top with remaining skins. Add vinegar and enough water to cover eggs and skins. Cover pan. 2. Slowly bring water to a boil. Then, reduce heat to very low. Simmer for an hour. 3. Remove eggs from pan. Tap each egg lightly with a spoon to form cracks in shell (this helps create spidery brown lines in egg white). Return eggs to water. Simmer for an additional two hours. 4. Remove eggs from water and allow to cool. Peel shells. Rinse in cold water. Refrigerate until serving. Yield: 12 eggs. Approximate nutritional analysis per serving: 80 calories, 5 grams fat, 210 milligrams cholesterol, 60 milligrams sodium, 6 grams protein, 1 gram carbohydrate. Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie Argent, a chevron cotised azure Dun an Leomhainn Bhig surmounted by a sword and in chief Barony of Marinus two mullets sable - ----------------------------- James and/or Nancy Gilly katiemorag at worldnet.att.net Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:10:21 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish cuisine At 1:12 PM +1100 12/16/97, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: >So if anybody can point me in the >direction of Jewish Medieval cooking knowledge, I would be very >appreciative. So far as I know, there are no surviving medieval Jewish cookbooks--which seems surprising. There is a 13th c. Andalusian cookbook (_Manuscrito Anonimo_) which has some recipes described as Jewish. David/Cariadoc Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:04:28 -0600 (CST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) Subject: SC - Jewish Cooking (Poison Pen Press?) Charles Ragnar wrote: >I would be interested in serving the 400 or so people a jewish >meal as one of the lunches or dinners. So if anybody can point me in >the direction of Jewish Medieval cooking knowledge, I would be very >appreciative. (This is in 18 months, so I can have a full scale >attempt at redaction and road-testing plenty of stuff) You might try a copy of _Eat and Be Satisfied_, A Social History of Jewish Food by John Cooper, 1993, Jason Aronson, Inc. ISBN is 0-87668-316-2. It does not have recipes but it does list various foods. Sample chapter headings are "Traditional Jewish Food in the Middle Ages" (divided into Italy, Germany, France; and the Islamic World), "Sabbath and Festival Food in the Middle Ages" (including meat consumption), material on the Spanish Jews, the Dutch and Portuguese Jews. I think the other chapters deal with later time periods. Seems to me I got my copy from Poison Pen Press. Devra (I think) frequents this list. If you can find a copy of this book I think it will give you some good documentation even if you need to use a modern recipe of a similar name. Alys Katharine Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:42:49 -0900 From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish cuisine Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > I would be interested in serving the 400 or so people a jewish > meal as one of the lunches or dinners. So if anybody can point me in the > direction of Jewish Medieval cooking knowledge, I would be very > appreciative. > > Charles Ragnar I have a book by the Frugal Gourmet called "The Frugal Gourment Keeps the Feast, Past Present, and Future." From the jacket - "Food is always more than eating and cooking for Jeff Smith. In these pages he sets Biblical recipes in their evolutionary context, showing how great dishes came out of desperate times and a reliance on local seasonal bounty." I've enjoyed reading it from the context of setting, food references in the Bible and symbolic meanings. The last half of the book has recipes, however, there is no original recipe with the modern. The selection of recipes is good and sound very similar to recent discussions on this list. This might be a good starting point, he does have a good bibliography which might be of help. I don't know how available this book is in Australia. ISBN is 0-688-11568-3, published in 1995. Hope this helps. Clare Subject: Fw: kosher laws Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 10:54:23 PST From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net> To: "Stefan" <stefan at texas.net> ---------- : Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 11:08:41 : From: Seton1355 : To: Me : Subject: Re: kosher laws : : Dear Lady Philipa, : May I call you Lady Philipa? (My name is Phillipa too...) : : <I was wondering if he could serve the meat part of the feast early, and later : serve a milk dish as a dessert.> : If one is going to eat both meat & dairy in a short time, you eat the dairy : first and then wash out your mouth, teeth & lips and then eat the meat. : (don't ask me why you can eat dairy first with out waiting...BTW, there are : those who would wait 1 hr anyway.) : : <Does fish count as meat?> : No fish is it's own catagory. But, you serve it before the meat and on : separate plates & utensils. Eat the fish, remove the fish course & plates & : utensils and then relay with new utensils for the meat course. : : <but what about frying chicken in egg batter?> : That is perfectly ok. Eggs are considered "parve" that is, neither meat nor : dairy. EXCEPT: If you kill a hen & find eggs (or rather the yolks) inside : they are considered meat. And of course this "egg batter" wouldn't contain : any milk would it? : : <and one of the things that I admire about Jews, and also amuses me, is that : you can be so nit-picky and yet so practical.> : Yes we are a pain in the *** lot aren't we! :) Now, dear lady, you and I : must be best of friends because I've just spoken to you plain! (big grin on : my face.) : Seriously, I don't know why Jews are so nit-picky....My uncle, an ortho-rabbi : won't eat in my mother's ortho-kosher home....go figure! : : <The other lady I know is VERY Kosher, to the extent that she has two : separate ovens,> : My aunt, now deceased, had a full kitchen & a pullman kitchen...... : : Well in any case, best of luck on the feast. Please let me know what was : served & how things turned out. I'm really intrigued (sp?) by now. : : All good wishes, from your cousin Phillipa....(would you believe my persona is : a Tudor Protestant?) Subject: Fw: kosher laws- long Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 10:56:36 PST From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net> To: "Stefan" <stefan at texas.net> ---------- : Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 16:59:30 : From: Seton1355 : To: Me : Subject: Re: kosher laws- long : : Good Cousin Greetings!! :) : I am making my annual birthday trip to Lancaaster, Pa tomorrow. When I : get back on Wed, the 7th. I'll start going through my cook books for you. : I read & translate modern Hebrew, my husband, bibical Hebrew. Not : perfectly (hey, we're not Sabras...) If you send me the Hebrew, I'll do my : very best. : As to my uncle....He's an ortho rabbi. What can I say. In his mind; : he's Jewish & we're not! : "dread-locked orthos" I like that!!! may I quote you??? :) : In the United States, only the fore-quarter of the cow is considered : kosher for consuption because a major artery runs through the hind quarter. : In Israel they go to the trouble to remove this vein, rendering the whole : animal ok. (although in Israel IMHO meat tastes terrible) I'm not sure of : the parts of other animals...sheep for instance. : BTW: In the Middle Ages a dairy dessert would NEVER follow a meat meal. : Just thought I'd mention that. (You had mentioned that your friend was : thinking of serving a dairy dessert...how long should the people wait.) Even : though Dutch Jews, for instance, would wait 1 hr between meat & dairy, dessert : is considered the end of the meal, part of the meal, so no Jewish matron would : serve dairy. Can you go parve? (neutral?) : : <My respect for Kosher (Kaddish?)> : just for info: Kaddish, the word, means "holy". Kaddish, the prayer is the : prayer for the dead. : I'd love the postings & what is omni-vorasity? (hey, I only teach little : kids, I don't know from big words!) : : As I say, I'll start going through my kosher cook books as soon as I : return. : Be well, dear cousin, A gizunt auf der (be well, in Yiddish - a period : language.) : Your Cousin Phillipa Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:51:40 EST From: CorwynWdwd <CorwynWdwd at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [EK] Fw: Looking for Dessert Lasagna-OOP Found it... <blush> Seems I had it on file and actually have cooked such a dish. I can't say it's period or from period sources, but here's what we eat around here. Lokshen Kugel 8 0z Broad noodles 1 cup raisins 1/2 teaspoon salt 2 tablespoons sugar 1/4 cup butter, melted 1 cup ricotta 1 egg. slightly beaten 2 teaspoons cinnamon 3/4 cup sour cream preheat oven to 350 cook the noodles al dente, drain. Stir in remaining ingredents reservuing half the melted butter. Place in a greased casserole and pour over the remaining melted butter. Bake uncovered for one hour. Actually, it would be less if it were a gas oven.. the top was a BIT too crunchy when we tried it with gas. The second time I did this, I substituted chooped apples and added more cinnamon. that was good too. Hope this helps. Corwyn Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:36:54 -0500 From: David Friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish food in period I read a bunch of volumes of _Early Period_ some time back. I enjoyed the publication, but my impression was that their food articles were rarely if ever based on period recipes. So my guess would be that they took period or biblical references to food and found modern ethnic recipes to fit. On the other hand, there is a period tamarind drink in _Manuscrito Anonimo_, if I remember correctly ... . David/Cariadoc Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:27:46 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish cuisine Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > >So if anybody can point me in the > >direction of Jewish Medieval cooking knowledge, I would be very > >appreciative. And David Friedman replied: > So far as I know, there are no surviving medieval Jewish cookbooks--which > seems surprising. There is a 13th c. Andalusian cookbook (_Manuscrito > Anonimo_) which has some recipes described as Jewish. At one point I collected all the recipes I had found in the _Manuscrito Anonimo_ that claimed to be "Jewish" and sent them to Yaakov ha-Mizrachi for the newsletter of Jewish personae he was publishing at the time. I think the newsletter died shortly thereafter, I hope not of indigestion :-) There may be other "Jewish" dishes in that source, but not in the section I had on disk. Anyway, here they are. Bear in mind that the author of the cookbook was probably Moslem, and certainly Arabic-speaking, but probably encountered Jews on a daily basis in al-Andalus. I haven't noticed any obvious tref in these recipes, unlike the famous Portuguese (?) recipe for "Moorish chicken" that includes bacon. A Jewish Dish of Eggplants Stuffed with Meat Scald the eggplants and take out their seeds and leave them whole. Take leg of lamb, mince it with salt, pepper, canel, Chinese canel and lavender, beat it with the white of eight eggs and separate six eggyolks. Stuff the eggplants with this stuffing. Then take three pots and put in one of them four spoonfuls of oil, onion juice, spices, perfumes and a spoonful of aromatic rosewater, pine-nuts, a bud of citrus, another of mint, and sufficient salt and water; boil gently and throw in half of the stuffed eggplants. And put in the second pot a spoonful of vinegar, minced onion, spices and perfumes, a stick of thyme, another of heather, citrus leaf, two sticks of fennel, a spoonful of oil, almonds, soaked chickpeas, and some half a dirham of ground saffron, and three cut cloves of garlic; steep in sufficient water until it boils several times, and throw into it the rest of the stuffed eggplants. And put in the third pot a spoonful and a half of strong vinegar, crushed onion, almond, pine-nuts, a stick of heather and leaves of citrus. Spray [the first?] with rosewater and sprinkle with perfumes, and adorn the second with cut-up eggyolks, cut heather, and sprinkle it with perfumes; cut an egg cooked with heather over the third, sprinkle it with pepper, and present it. Jewish Partridge Clean the partridge and season it with salt, then beat its entrails with almonds and pine-nuts and add murri, oil, a little cilantro juice, pepper, canel, Chinese canel, lavender, five eggs and sufficient meat. Boil two eggs, stuff the partridge with the stuffing and cover it with the boiled eggs so that the stuffing is between the skin and the meat, and some of it in the interior of the partridge. Then take a new pot and put in four spoonfuls of oil, half a spoonful of murri and two of salt. Place the partridge in this pot and put it on the fire, after reinforcing the cover with dough, stir it continuously so it will be even, and when the sauce has dried, remove the lid1 and throw in half a spoonful of vinegar, buds of citrus and mint, and break two or three eggs over it. Then place thou an earthenware or copper pot full of hot coals over it until it is browned, and then around the sides until the other side has browned, and fry [?] it all. Then put it in a dish and put thou the stuffing around it, and adorn it with the eggyolks with which thou has adorned the pot, and sprinkle it with pepper and canel, then with sugar, and present it, God willing. A Jewish Dish of Chicken Clean the chicken and take out its entrails, cut the extremities from its thighs, flanks, and necks, go away from the chicken and leave it. Take these extremities, the neck and the entrails, and put them in a pot with select spices and all the condiments: green cilantro juice, onion juice, whole pine-nuts, a little vinegar and a little murri, good oil, citrus leaves, and two buds of fennel. Put thou this over a moderate fire and when it is done and the greater part of the sauce has gone, thicken it with three eggs, grated breadcrumbs and fine flour, crush the liver, throw it into this paste, and cook it little by little until the liver and the paste are cooked and they take body. Then take the chicken and fry it little by little and beat together two eggs, oil and murri, and do not stop sprinkling the chicken above and below with this until it is browned and fried. Then take a second pot and put in two spoonfuls of oil and half a spoonful of murri, another half spoonful of vinegar and two of aromatic rosewater, onion juice, spices and condiments. Put this on the fire until it cooks slowly, and when it has cooked, leave it until it is absorbed. Then pour it in a second dish and adorn it too with eggyolks; sprinkle it with select spices and present both dishes, God willing. A Jewish Dish of Partridge Clean it, quarter it and put it in the pot with all the spices and condiments, green cilantro juice, onion extract, murri, half a spoonful of vinegar, three of oil, and sufficient water, buds of mint, citrus and whole pine-nuts. When it has boiled and consumed the greater part of the sauce, pound the tripe and the liver gently and beat them with three eggs and [into?] dough; coat the pot with this and stir it at the sides until it thickens. Cover it with eggyolks and then pour it and adorn it with eggyolks and buds of mint, minced pine-nuts and pistachios, spray it with a little rosewater and present it, God willing. A Jewish Dish of Chicken Clean the chicken and pound its entrails with almonds, breadcrumbs, a little flour, salt, fennel, and cut cilantro; beat it with six eggs and the amount of four pounds [?] of water. Then put the chicken over the fire a little and place it in a clean pot with five spoonfuls of sweet oil, and do not stop stirring it over the fire in the oil until it is lightly browned. Then make a mash of the stuffing prepared earlier and leave it until it is bound together and thickened. Pour it out and put it around the stuffing, adorn with cut rue and fennel, buds of mint, and minced almonds, and present it, God willing. A Jewish Dish of Hidden Stuffing Pound some meat, cutting it round, and be careful that there be no bones in it. Put it in a pot and put in all the spices except cumin, four spoonfuls of oil, penetrating rosewater, a little onion juice, a little salt, and cover it with a thick cloth. Take it to a moderate fire and cook it with care. Pound meat for meatballs, season it and make little meatballs and throw them in the pot until they are done. When everything is done, beat together five eggs, salt, pepper, and canel; make a thin foil of this in a frying pan, and beat five more eggs with what will make another thin foil. Then take a new pot and put in a spoonful of oil and boil it a little, put in the bottom one of the two foils, pour the meat onto it, and cover with the other foil. Then beat three eggs with a little white flour, pepper, canel, and some rosewater with the rest of the pounded meat, and put this over the top of the pot. Then cover it with fire2 until it is browned, and be careful that it not burn. Then break the pot and put the whole mass on a dish, and cover it with buds of mint, pistachios, and pine-nuts, and add aromatic condiments. [Or] put on this plate all that has been indicated, and leave out the rosewater and replace it with a spoonful of juice of cilantro pounded with onion, and half a spoonful of murri; make with all this what was made of the first, if it please God. 1This passage is confusing. "Reinforce the cover with dough" suggests putting a lid on the pot and sealing the edge with dough, as in some other recipes; "stir" must then be read as "agitate". But how is the sauce to dry up in a covered, sealed pot, and how are we to know when it has? -- J.ibn-E. 2presumably a pan of coals, as in the Jewish Partridge dish above -- J.ibn-E. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:35:32 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Re: Eggplant follow-up Someone wrote: > << setting > >fire on top. >> Ras asked: > Could this be referring to a covered casserole that is placed in the >fire and the coals are piled over the top? Adamantius said: >Could be. Alternately (and this is my own personal interpretation) you >could use the old fireplace-shovel, or equivalent, run across the top >of the dish, with the coals in that. One of the things that leads me >to question the Dutch-oven concept is simply the fact that I haven't >seen anything like a casserole with a flanged cover among the various >drawings, etc., of Islamic cooking utensils. And Alys Katherine pointed out: > This technique, however, is used periodically in the Moorish > (Andalusian) recipes in Cariadoc's Collection. If memory serves, the > pot's lid was placed on top and coals were put on top of that. It > would sort of presume a flat lid, although one could probably use a > tripod arrangement with the pot below and a flat "plate" above, on the > tripod, with coals on the "plate". (Everybody got that straight? Good.) I would further point out that the technique is used in two of the "Jewish" dishes in my previous message. I asked Yaakov about this, and he explained that broiling is one of the legal means of koshering meat, especially organ meats like liver. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 21:41:34 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish food in period RuddR at aol.com wrote: > This intrigues me. My wife and I talked about the idea of having a medieval > sedar this year, but apart from modern ethnic recipes that had a medieval > "feel" about them, couldn't come up with anything authentically period on > short notice. We decided to hold off on the idea for a while. > > I suppose one could select medieval receipts that could be made using kosher > ingredients, but does anyone have any leads on authentic period Jewish > cookery? > > Rudd Rayfield Okay, after a long and mostly fruitless search, I'll tell you what I can, which is simply this: you want to find an article that appeared in the New York Times on April 16th, 1997, entitled "Jewish Recipes of the Spanish Inquisition", by Andree Brooks. It concerns the everyday and holiday eating habits of Spain's "secret" Jews, people who professed Catholicism in public but who continued to practice Judaism in private. This would have taken place in the early 16th century, I suppose, and the documentation for this includes trial and testimony transcripts from people like household servants. These transcripts include descriptions of matzoh making, as well as a process for making vermillioned eggs, and a few others. The article includes worked-out recipes for the matzoh and the eggs, as well, as fairly detailed descriptions of some other foods. _SOMEWHERE_ I have a printout of this article, but it's kind of long to type in all at once, and it seems to have been removed from the NYT archives, which only go back a year on the Web. You should be able to find it in the library, though. Adamantius Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 23:31:01 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: More on Re: SC - Jewish food in period RuddR at aol.com wrote: > I suppose one could select medieval receipts that could be made using kosher > ingredients, but does anyone have any leads on authentic period Jewish > cookery? > > Rudd Rayfield I found this book listed on the Amazon.com web site: it is by one of the people referred to in the New York Times article on Jewish Foods of the Spanish Inquisition I referenced earlier. The author of the book is one of the people who worked on something like 85 recipes of secret Jews living in Spain in the early 16th century -- the book may or may not include material about eating habits, but I would bet that it does. Of course, the book predates the NY Times article, so there's no guarantee it and the Times article are in any way the products of the same body of research. On the other hand, it's worth a shot. "Secrecy and Deceit: The Religion of Crypto-Jews", by David M. Gitlitz, Jewish Publication Society of America, 1996, ASIN 0827605625. Summary courtesy of Amazon.com: > Despite the increased attention given to Hispano-Jewish topics, and > the "conversos" or Crypto-Jews in particular, this is the first > thorough compilation of their customs and practices. Gitlitz has > culled from Inquisition documents and other sources to paint a > portrait of the richness and diversity of Crypto-Jewish practices in > Spain, Portugal, and the New World. Adamantius Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:34:12 +0100 From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> Subject: RE: SC - Jewish food in period In Ordnance of Pottage, Constance Hieatt refers to some work being done on 12th century Sephardic cooking in spain, specifically in the context of closed pot cooking. She gives a name but MLAH [My Library is At Home -ed.] and I didn't make a note of it - that might be a starting point. Caroline Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:46:22 EDT From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: Jewish food in period-some comments Let me comment on parts of this letter: << On the other hand, the chemical makeup of a modern attempt at period cameline made with matzoh should be practically identical to one made with crumbs from leavened bread. >> Not so. Mundanely, I have cooked extensivly using motzoh meal (pulverized matzoh) in place of regular bread crumbs. In every case, the motzoh meal dish came out heavier tasting than the bread crumb version. I believe it has to do with the levening used in regular bread crumbs, vs matzoh/matzoh meal, which would be made without levening. Levening puts air/volume into a food item & helps make it lighter, not so dense. << and whether or not they are appropriate for a seder is also in question.>> Ah, now here's a place I can help with certainty! Orthodoxly speaking, the rules haven't changed. (Which isn't to say that modern Jews do whatever.... me included.) But back in the MA, there was Halacha (the law) and not so many variations as today. I don't recall the beginning of this Jewish food thread, but if people are interested in whether or not a specific recipe would be kosher for Passover. Email me the ingredients & I can tell you (having been raised ortho & taught & studied ortho) & I can also look it up in my ortho books.) In service, Phillipa Seton Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:24:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Russell Gilman-Hunt <conchobar at rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish food in period At the risk of endangering my already tenous grasp on my self- respect, and the respect of the list, let me tell you of a book. The Frugal Goremt Keeps the Feast, by Jeff Smith. ISBN:0 688 11568 3 Remaindered for $2.99 at Borders Books. "recipes and stories that [may] explain how the ancient table may be celebrated in our time and how food functions as theological talk in the Bible." He uses anecdotes, proverbs and stories from the Bible to make recipes. The recipes are modern-looking (to me), being things like "Hommus with Sumac and Hyssop" and "Rolled Grape Leaves with Lamb". On a brisk read, I only saw the one citation: for a Bible (trans). But he does talk about food references from the Old Testament, (and the New), and you might be interested. == HL Sergeant Conchobar Mac Muirchertaig Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:12:56 -0400 From: Ceridwen <ceridwen at commnections.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish food in period Rudd, There was an article in Tournaments Illuminated a few issues back on recreating a medieval Seder, with recipes. If you don't get TI, I could scan it and send it as a JPG or type it in, if you'd like Ceridwen Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:25:07 -0500 (CDT) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) Subject: SC - Re: Jewish Food in Period Greetings! For Jewish food in period (minus recipes) you might want to look at _Eat and Be Satisfied_: A Social History of Jewish Food by John Cooper, published by Jason Aronson Inc., 1993. Actually, he includes four recipes from "Kitab al-tabih ft-l-Maghrib wa-al-Andalus fi 'asr al-Muwahhidin" (whew!), "a 13th-century compilation by an anonymous author". While the book doesn't have recipes per se (except as above) it does detail the specific foods )and sometimes the method of preparation) for the numerous phases of Jewish life. Alys Katharine Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:37:46 -0400 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: SC - Jewish Cooking Well, my search for persona has led me again into some interesting Food files, so if anybody's interested, please enjoy the following sites. http://www.eskimo.com/~jefffree/recipes/ http://www.kashrus.org/recipes/recipes.html http://www.betterbaking.com/baker2/index97.shtml http://www.epicurious.com/e_eating/e06_jewish_cooking/recipes/recipes.html http://www.marketnet.com/mktnet/kosher/recipes/chanukah/index.html http://www.gourmetkosher.com/recipes/index.stm The first site comes with some good music. Enjoy! Phlip Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:31:03 -0700 From: "needlwitch at msn.com" <needlewitch at email.msn.com> Subject: Re: SC - The thingy recipe (a bit OT) >Alys' recipe for bull penis: Is it period and is the recipe >available. I'd love to serve this at a feast (if I could get my hands >on half a dozen thingys). > >Drake. Here is the recipie I have. Remember, you asked for it. :-) Petits Propos Culinaires printed an article in 1987 entitled "Udder and Other Extremeties: Recipes from the Jews of Yemen" by Barbara Kirshenblatt-Gimblett. Geed (penis of ox or bull) 500 grams penis black pepper 1 tomato, chopped cumin 1 onion chopped saffron cloves of garlic salt coriander Scald the penis and clean it. Boil 10 minutes, remove and slice. Brown the onion, garlic, coriander in oil. Add penis and fry. Mix (and add) chopped tomato, pepper, cumin, saffron and salt. cover the pot. Cook over low flame 2 hours, adding a little water from time to time to prevent burning. Serve hot. Enjoy. Thorbjorn the Cook Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:36:13 EST From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - Medieval Hanukah/Purim Snip.....In the book "Eat and be Satisfied" by John Cooper (ISBN0-87668-316-2), there is a whole chapter talking about Sabbath and Festival food in the Middle Ages. This is what it says about Hanukah and Purim: "In the 14th century the Maharil mentioned that it was the custom to eat a honey cake on Purim, and a century later we have evidence that the Austrian Jews ate kreplekh on Purim and kremzlekh on holidays such as Passover. Hayyim Schauss, following Moritz Steinschneider, assumed that the German Jews had borrowed the custom of eating kreplekh on Purim from their Gentile neighbors, who celebrated Shrove Tuesday, which occurred at the same time of the year, by consuming pancakes that were similar. Schauss further pointed out that the beating and noise made on Purim in the synagogue when Haman's name was mentioned was originally connected with an attempt to frighten evile spirits at this time of the year, when winter changed into spring. Hence the custom of eating kreplekh, boiled dumplings stuffed with meat that had been chopped and "beaten." Although the custom of eating cheese dishes on Hanukkah can be traced to the story of Judith, an Israelite heroine in the Apocrypha who gave the enemy general Holofernes milk to dreink before assassinating him, this practice of eating cheese delicacies did not become popular until the Middle Ages, when it was referred to with approval by Rabbi Nissim ben Reuben in the 14th century. Kalonymos ben Kalonymos (1287-1377) also stated that special cakes were eaten on Hanukkah, and he wrote a poem for the festival extolling the merits of eating pancakes that wree fried in oil. Throughout Europe and the Middle East, Jews ate these pancakes to commemorate the miracle of the lights that burned for eight days in the Temple, although there was a supply of oil sufficient for only one day" Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:50:39 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Medieval Hanukah/Purim Seton1355 at aol.com writes: << what was the name of the book in the original post? >> I'm not sure which 'original' post you're referring to so here are all the titles, I have on file: ' The Frugal Gourmet Keeps the Feast-Past, Present, and Future' by Jeff Smith; ISBN 0-688-11568-3. "Recipes and Stories That Explain How the Ancient Table May Be Celebrated in Our Times and How Food Functions as Theological Talk in the Bible." two Copeland Marks books with information on that topic - Sephardic Cooking, which details the cuisine of the various Sephardic communities of the world (those descended from the first diaspora, which had emigrated to Babylon, and then spread out). A second book of his, The Varied Cuisines of India, details the cooking of a number of communities, and includes the Hindus and the Jews of India. <<When you read Jeff Smith on Jewish recipes/information, be careful. He has made a few mistakes in the past. (My brother-in-law, who is ultra kosher & likes to cook, caught them.)>> He does occasionally make a mistake or two, agreed. <<why would not the Bible be acceptable as a period source?>> In the original and in a litteral translation it would be exceptable as a 'period' source. However, I am unaware of any English translations that are not influenced by current theoligical thought. For instance, all translations show 'the spirit of God' as moving on the waters when the Hebrew word conotates a feminine aspect which would be closer to the original if translated 'Goddess". :-) The same in the New testament where the Greek 'Sophia' is erromeously rendered as 'the Holy Spirit'. Elohim is translated as 'God' when the actual translation would be something like 'Gods'. These are extreme examples but they leave little doubt in my mind that the rest of the texts are probably equally corrupted. Ras Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:44:34 -0500 From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King) Subject: SC - Jewish Holidays -long Here is my list of Jewish holidays and the observances and food that go along with each of them. The dates are marked with a * which denotes a floating holiday, a full explaination is in the introduction of the book. So consider the calendar dates as a basic idea of when these holidays occur. Any additional observance information would be welcome. Mistress Christianna JAN 29 Tu Bi-Sh'vot* - Jewish - "the 15th of Sh'vot" or the New Year of the Trees- families plant a tree for each child born that year, cedars for boys and cypress for girls. When the child married, the tree would be cut down for a post for their wedding canopy. Trees are blooming in the Land of Israel now, and the fruits of those trees are eaten, oranges, dates, figs, raisins, carob beans, and almonds. MAR 16 Purim* - Jewish - "The Feast of Lots". Only a Jew named Mordechai refused to bow to Haman, wicked advisor to King Ahasuerus of Persia, and Haman wanted to kill the Jews. He convinced the king to draw a lot (or pur) to decide the day of slaughter. But the king's beautiful queen, Esther, who was Jewish, asked him to save her people, and the king remembered that Mordechai had warned him of a plot on his life. He proclaimed the Jews would live, and hanged Haman on the gallows he had built for Mordechai. On this day the Book of Esther is read, and people drown out every mention of Haman with noisemakers and stomping feet. Masks and costumes are worn, especially by companies of amateur actors called Purim Shpieler (Purim Players), who act out the Purim story. Triangular cakes filled with poppyseed or fruit are served called Haman Taschen. ('Purim' also means 'dice'.) APRIL 22 Passover* - Jewish - "The Festival of Freedom". More than 3,000 years ago, the Jews were slaves in Egypt, building the pyramids. One day God spoke to the shepherd Moses from a burning bush, telling him to lead the suffering Jews out of Egypt. But Pharaoh would not let the Jews go, even though God struck Egypt with many plagues, including locusts, fire, and hailstones. Finally Moses told Pharaoh that a tenth and last plague would kill all the Egyptian's first born sons. As a signal to the Angel of Death, the Jews sacrificed a lamb and sprinkled some of the blood on their door posts, and the Angel "passed over" (pasah) their homes when he came to kill the Egyptians. After this plague, Pharaoh finally gave in. The Jews quickly left, and the waters of the Red Sea parted to let them through. By now, Pharaoh had changed his mind and sent soldiers in pursuit. The waters closed over the Egyptians. Today, to celebrate, Jewish families eat a ceremonial dinner called the seder at which they retell the story of the Exodus from Egypt, and serve special foods that commemorate it. The matzah, a flat, unleavened bread, recalls the haste with which the Jews had to leave Egypt: They couldn't wait for their bread to rise. Blessings and songs also celebrate this day of freedom. The Last Supper was a Passover feast. The first Good Friday (the day on which Christ died) was during Passover. MAY 21 Shavuot* - Jewish - The "Festival of Weeks" comes exactly seven weeks after Passover. It celebrates Moses' return from the top of Mt. Sinai in the desert. He brought his people two stone tablets with God's Ten Commandments, the fundamental laws of the Jewish faith. Shavuot was originally an agricultural holiday to celebrate the beginning of the wheat harvest, when farmers brought some of their bounty to the Temple in Jerusalem. Today many Jews eat a dairy meal to symbolize the promised land, " a land flowing with milk and honey". At the age of 16, Jewish teens go through a Confirmation ceremony on Shavout, to be counted among all of the Jews in the world. ("Shabuoth", "Shovuos") AUG 5 Tisha be-Av* - Jewish - This is a day of mourning and fasting in memory of the destruction of both the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem, which both happened on the same date (the "Ninth of Av"). In 586 BC, the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple, and the Jews rebuilt it. In 70AD, the Romans burned down the Second Temple, and a long period of Jewish exile began. People read the sad poetry of the Book of Lamentations and also grieve for all those times in history when Jews have suffered. SEPT 11 Rosh ha-Shanah* - Jewish - Meaning "Head of the New Year", this holiday marks the beginning of the High Holy Days, which continue for 10 days until Yom Kippur. Celebrated at the beginning of the Hebrew Month Tishri, the first month of the year, to commemorate the creation of the world, which according to tradition started in 3761 BCE. (See Oct. 7th) The story of Abraham, whose faith in God was so great that he was willing to sacrifice his son, Issac to Him, is read during services. God relented and Abraham sacrificed a ram instead, and a ram's horn is blown during the service. Special food eaten includes the round loaf of Challah bread, to signify that the year comes around to a new beginning, and apples dipped in honey to make the New Year sweet. Ten days of self-examination and repentance reach their fulfillment in Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. SEPT 21 Yom Kippur* - Jewish - "Day of Atonement" is the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. They believe that God studies a book of everyone's deeds during the past year on the first ten days of the New Year. On the tenth day, Yom Kippur, He decides how each person will live in the year to come. Many Jews fast from the sundown the day before until the sun sets on Yom Kippur. They pray that God will forgive them their sins and that they will live well in the New Year. A taper large enough to burn for 24 hours is lighted in each home to remember the dead. OCT 1 Sukkot* - Jewish - The "Feast of Booths" commemorates the period after the exodus from Egypt when Jews wandered in the desert for 40 years. During harvest times, they lived in temporary huts, or "Sukkot". Many Jews build a "sukkah" out of branches or hay and leave them up for the nine days of the festival, eating and sometimes sleeping in them. ("Succoth" - Jewish Thanksgiving Day) OCT 8 Simhat Torah* - Jewish - Each synagogue has its own hand-lettered scrolls of the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. During a year of weekly services the entire Torah is read, and on Simhat Torah, "Rejoicing in the Law" the final book is completed and the cycle begins again. In celebration everyone dances and sings, passing the Torah scrolls to one another. DEC 10 Hanukkah* - Jewish - More than 2,000 years ago, when the Syrian King Antiochus IV occupied Jerusalem, he forced the Jews to worship the Greek Gods. For three years, Judah the Maccabee led a rebellion against the Syrians, and when he finally defeated them, the Jews could worship freely again. To rededicate the Temple, they cleaned it from top to bottom, and then had to relight the 'menorah', a candelabrum. But only enough oil could be found for 1 day, and it would take 8 days to get more oil. Incredibly, the little bottle of oil did last for 8 days, and Hanukah celebrates both this miracle and the "Rededication". An 8 day celebration, families light one candle the first night, 2 candles the second night, and so on. There are songs, stories, presents, prayers, and games of chance with tops called dreidels. >From "366 Days of Celebrations, or, A Year Full of Reasons to Throw a Party" by Christine Seelye-King Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:36:36 -0600 From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com> Subject: Re: SC - Jewish Holidays -long There are 2 holidays not mentioned here that are mentioned in the Torah. The first is Hoshana Rabba which is basically the last day of the holiday of Sukkoth and the other is Shimini Atzeret. Below is an explanation of these holidays taken from a research article I wrote for the Elfsea Newsletter. If anyone is interested in more information, let me know. Sindara "The seventh day of "Sukkoth" has a special name because it is said that God, the Master of the Universe, opens the gates of heaven one more time to forgive sins on this day. The seventh day is called "Hoshana Rabbah" after the special prayers recited on this day. During the "Sukkoth" prayer service a special prayer called "Hoshanath" are recited. "Hoshanath" is a group of seven prayers that ask God to "save us" and forgive our sins. Each day a different "Hoshanath" prayer is recited. On "Hoshana Rabbah" all seven are recited. Part of the custom of "Hoshanath" is to parade around the synagogue, waving the "Lulav" and "Etrog". On the eve of "Hoshana Rabbah" the men of the household spend all night in the "Sukkah" studying passages from the Torah and the "Zohar-book of splendor". Those mourning a loved one bring grapes and cake to those who are studying. This is served with sweet coffee and cinnamon tea. The day after "Hoshana Rabbah" is yet another holiday. It is called "Shimini Hag Ha' Atzeret-the Eighth day Assembly Holiday". The Torah commands us to celebrate this day with complete joy. We are not commanded to eat any longer in the "Sukkah". We do not partake of the "Lulav" and "Etrog". We are simply commanded to rejoice. Our God is asking us to spend one more day with him before returning to our mundane lives. During the prayer service it is customary to recite the prayer for "Geshem-rain" so that the Holy One, Blessed Be He, will give a good rain and a good harvest for the coming year." Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:32:54 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Cookbook alert Devra at aol.com wrote: < Gitlitz, David, and Linda Kay Davidson, _A Drizzle of Honey: The Life and Recipes of Spain's Secret Jews_ St. Martin's Press, $29.95 352 pages. ISBN 0-312-19860-4> I believe this book is the result of some research being done a while back, that was reported on in the New York Times a year or so ago. I have a printed copy of the article around here _some_where. It is not available via the NYT on-line archives, but most local libraries would probably have it available one way or another. As I recall it was based largely on recently discovered trial testimonies of people like Gentile kitchen maids, who had, either by choice or perforce, testified against their employers. Some of these people were convicted of being Jews largely on the basis of their culinary habits, so there was a good deal of fairly detailed testimony about the "odd" way the defendants made their bread, etc. Adamantius Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Carrollmann <harper at idt.net> Subject: SC - Cookbook alert I'm a librarian in mundane life, and I just spotted a review in the Dec. 21 issue of "Publishers Weekly" that is likely to be of interest to the gentles on this list. A cookbook is coming out in February: Gitlitz, David, and Linda Kay Davidson, _A Drizzle of Honey: The Life and Recipes of Spain's Secret Jews_ St. Martin's Press, $29.95 352 pages. ISBN 0-312-19860-4 According to the review the authors are professors at the Univ. of Rhode Island. The work is a cookbook of Spanish crypto-Jews -- Jews who outwardly converted to Christianity in the late 15th century, while secretly maintaining much of their original faith and customs. There are 16 pages of endnotes and a 6-page bibliography. The review indicates that the book contains redacted recipes. There is no indication how many recipes appear in the book and if the original recipes are included. _Drizzle of Honey_ is listed at amazon.com. Brighid ni Chiarain *** Robin Carroll-Mann Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:40:59 EST From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - haroset balls for Passover I just got a wonderful new book called: A Drizzle of Honey, The Life and Recipes of Spain's Secret Jews, by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. St. Martin's Press 1999 (I got it from Amazon.com) The title kind of says it all. In honor of upcoming Pesach, (Passover) here is a charoset recipe. **Diego Diaz Nieto's Haroset Balls** (this recipe is from before 1594) (makes 15 1" balls) 2 apples cored, and finely diced 6 Tbsp chopped almonds 6 Tbsp chopped dates 6 Tbsp raisins 12 chestnuts, cooked and peeled 3/4 tsp cinamon 3 Tbsp sugar 5 Tbsp white vinegar Place the diced apples, slmonds, dates, raisins, and chestnuts into an unbreakable bowl. With a potato masher, mash all these ingredients together.* Add cinamon and 1 Tbsp sugar and mix well. Place the remaining sugar in a small bowl. With your fingers, form the charoset mixture into small balls. Roll them in sugar and put them on a plate. Refrigerate until serving. To serve: Arrange the haroset balls on a plate. Spoon the vinegar over them. Let them sit until the vinegar is absorbed * Do not grind to a pulpy paste or they will not hold together Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:16:01 -0500 From: "Nick Sasso" <Njs at mccalla.com> Subject: SC - Initial impressions of A Drizzle of Honey A Drizzle of Honey, The Life and Recipes of Spain's Secret Jews, by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. St. Martin's Press 1999 My initial impressions from the copy I received in the mail three days ago is that it is a great cooking book that has somewhat gauged value as a historical cooking source. The introduction is forthright in saying exactly what they have done with their tome. The authors inform the reader that they worked from ingredients lists taken primarily from testimonial evidence from the Inquisition (a brilliant source of information to say the least), and not from period recipe sources. The testimony is of christians using food traditions and culture to coinvict the heretics. We get good lists of foods in use by the jewish conversoras (public converts/covert jews). What the sources did not give was recipe work of any sort (proportions). The authors used contemporary sources to generate hypotheses as to what the dishes would come out as. they then experimented and changed as they thought would be best. I look forward to reading more of this book, and wanted to give a really brief overview of this source for those who are considering it. Worth the $25 give or take including shipping, in my opinion. The only problem I have is that the pages on mine are really ragged on the ends. . . should I have expected that from Amazon, or is this a reject that Ishould send back? niccolo difranceco Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:40:45 EST From: Acanthusbk at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Initial impressions of A Drizzle of Honey Njs at mccalla.com writes: > Worth the $25 give or take including shipping, in my opinion. The > only problem I have is that the pages on mine are really ragged on the > ends. . . should I have expected that from Amazon, or is this a reject > that Ishould send back? This is a special cut the publisher used on the page edges. All of them are this way, I don't like it either. Amanda Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:45:08 -0600 From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com> Subject: Re: SC - haroset balls for Passover Thank you for further documentation of Haroset. So far what I have come up with for actual recipe documentation is as follows: The earliest is R' Saadia Gaon (Bavel (Iraq) 882-942): "you make a wet sauce from dates walnuts and sesame and you knead it in vinegar, and that is called haliq." (RSG's Siddur p. 135). The Rambam-Maimonides (12th century) describes the ingrediants of Haroset as "[Haroset] how is it made? You take dates or figs or raisins or suchlike and mash them, add vinegar and serve them as a condiment." Tosafot (12th century France) (Tractate Pesachim 116a) say "you dip it in wine or vinegar (apparently the custom in the time of the Mishna and Talmud was to dip the *first* vegetable in the charoset, not to dip the maror in it as we do today),... and in Responsa of the Gaonim (Babylonian sages of the 7th-10th centuries) they explain to make haroset with fruits that are compared to the community of Israel...apple...pomegranate...fig ...date...walnut...almond." Rokeach, R' Eleazar of Worms, 1160-1237: "The haroset is made from apples, into which is put a little of the fruits from Song of Songs, walnuts figs and pomegranates. And pepper and ginger and cumin and horseradish and mirtach [what? can't find it in any dictionaries, closest word is either "weld" or a misspelling of "boil", I'd guess mix them together.]; but apples and walnuts are the primary ingredients. And from the Ma'om Lo'az a Rabbi who lived in the mid-1600's- his recipes distinguish between Ashkanazic (Eastern Europe) and Sephardic (Spain & the Middle East). The Ashkanazic is the recipe I grew up with mundanely of chopped apples, walnuts, cinnamon and sweet red wine and the Sephardic recipe of dates, raisins, figs, almonds and vinegar. Sindara Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:47:09 -0600 From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com> Subject: Re: SC - Cooking for special requests I will work on getting together the recipes this weekend. I did one recipe that I got out of a Passover cookbook called Chicken Gan Eden (Chicken from the garden of Eden). It is chicken pieces stewed in a sauce of ginger, cinnamon, orange juice and honey. Noodle Kugel (Noodle pudding) I have found some limited documentation for. Haroset can be used as a condiment anytime of year. I used to take it with me as a snack at events. It is great on crackers. I am in the process of researching recipes for Cholent (Dafina, T'fina, Hammeem) which is a traditional Sabbath stew. I have found mention of it in the Talmud but I have yet to find any documentation for the many recipes I have. I wonder if "A Drizzle of Honey" mentions a recipe. Sindara Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:40:45 EST From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Koser foods - history query > I found this fascinating. Since the Biblical injunction prohibiting the combination og milk/meat is scripturally confined to the cooking of a young animal in it's own mother's milk, I would like to know if there are any books or other resource materials that detail the expansion of this rule into the current system? > More importantly, was the expansive prohibition regarding combining milk/ meat as opposed to the scriptural ban on combining child/mother's milk put into use pre-period or was this a result of general religious prohibitions set in place during later periods? > Ras The prohibition against mixing meat and milk as opposed to JUST not cooking a kid in it's mother's milk goes back approximately two thousand years. Rabbis Akiba and Hillel debated this issue (not at the same time) but I will have to look up exact dates. Certainly by "our" period, the prohibition against mixing any meat and any dairy was codified and extensive. Phillipa Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:37:18 -0600 From: "Sharon R. Saroff" <sindara at pobox.com> Subject: Re: SC - The Royal Table >> The Royal Table. >Never heard of this one. Can you comment about it please? >Phillipa Since my copy is in storage, I am operating from memory. It is a small book that talks about the laws of keeping kosher and adding the spiritual end. Basically things dairy are equated with life because they are made from milk and milk is how a mother sustains the life of her children. Meat is equated with death because the animal is no longer alive. Spiritually one should not mix death with life. It lends another interesting dimension to why one should keep kosher. Sindara Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:55:53 -0500 From: "Margo Hablutzel" <margolh at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: SC - Tzimmes Sindara asked for my recipe, and documentation. As for the latter, it is: "oy, the recipe has been in our family for generations...!!" (I was very upset one time to learn that my mother's noodle kugel dated only to the copy of "Love and Knishes" she received as a young bride.) Of course, everybody does it differently. This is my recipe: Take a crockpot. Put enough liquid in to glaze the bottom. Add layers of: sweet potatoes, washed and chunked (peeling optional); carrots (same); an onion sliced over; the meat (cheap cuts of beef are best: I think short ribs are too fatty and use chuck or brisket); dried prunes and apricots. Add the rest of the liquid, cover, and cook all day on low. Needless to say, this is a fairly modern version! It was slow-cooked or baked until I decided that the crockpot was entirely too useful (my mother, when we were growing up, used one often when we had more important things to do that day, like school and work, or cleaning the gutters and installing storm windows). Tzimmes and other dishes, such as cholent, came about because they slow-cooked, meaning the family did not have to cook on Shabbat. They were buried in a low fire, or hot coals, to cook slowly until Saturday afternoon. This is why tough cuts of beef, root vegetables, larger dried beans (for cholent but not for tzimmes) and dried fruit are favoured, they hold up to a long, slow cooking. Cholent would not be appropriate for Pesach, as my preferred version includes lima beans (may be OK if you are Sephardic) and barley (forbidden). But it is good! I note that the Ashkenazic Jews tend to ban more items (rice, corn, beans, lentils, peas) than the Sephardic (whose diet probably relies more upon them); one of the hardest things for me to give up at Passover is peanut butter. I actually like the honey cakes and sponge cakes that become dessert for days (plus custards and the like, and lots of fruit), and I just adore macaroons. But peanut butter is also forbidden under some traditions. There are vegetarian tzimmes, as well as those made with beef. I don't know of any made with other meats. The simplest tzimmes look horrifyingly like the honeyed carrots that too many SCA Cooks learn as their first - and sometimes their only - vegetable. Tzimmes made with dried fruit is a wonderful dessert also, like a compote. As another note, lamb stews are very common for Passover, to connote the paschal lamb. I have not suggested this to Franz as lamb can be more expensive than beef. ---= Margo Lynn (the Jewish persona) Morgan Cain * Steppes, Ansteorra Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:04:28 -0600 From: Heitman <fiondel at fastrans.net> Subject: Re: SC - Koser foods - history query At 09:12 AM 3/12/99 EST, you wrote: >More importantly, was the expansive prohibition regarding combining milk/meat >as opposed to the scriptural ban on combining child/mother's milk put into use >pre-period or was this a result of general religious prohibitions set in place >during later periods? >Ras The teaching that I recieved from my ULTRA ORTHODOX Rabbi was the reason behind the seperation of meat and dairy was cultural integrity. Iit dates back to the Roman occupation of the Holy land, and the mixing of cultures that occurs during any such situation. The Romans evidently ate a fair number of "milk stews". The rabbis of the time preached against such mixing to keep the Jewish culture from disappearing into the "universal" one of Rome. During a time of occupation and assimilation, Israel has survived by maintaining a "seperate" existance from the "dominant" society. Egypt, Assyria, Rome, Spain, Russia. Yet the Culture survives "intact". Even in the great melting pot of NYC, where the Hassidics have their own state funded public school. The rules seem to work when the motivation is correct. Franz Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999