fd-Italy-msg - 2/24/08 Medieval Italian food. Recipe books. Sources. NOTE: See also the files: Italy-msg, pasta-msg, cookbooks-msg, ham-msg, fd-paintings-msg, tomato-hist-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 17:13:37 GMT Subject: Re: SC - Italian Renaissance----any translations out there? On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:32, maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com> wrote: >Does anyone know of ANY translated italian renaissance cookbooks? I >have a few italian cookbooks with 'period' style recipes in them but no >way to verify ingredients. One of the cookbooks I have is "The Heritage >of Italian Cooking" by Lorenza di Medici. The photographs in the book >are gorgeous. The recipes.well...more than half do not even have the >english translation of the original recipe. Castelvetro, Giacomo "The Fruit, Herbs & Vegetables of Italy, an Offering to Lucy, Countess of Bedford", 1614. Translated with an Introduction by Gillian Riley, Foreword by Jane Grigson. Viking Press, published by the Penguin Group. 27 Wrights Lane, London W8 5TZ, England. First edition, 1989. ISBN 0-670-82724X. (Yes, it has more than just a discussion of fruits and veggies in Italy, it also has a few recipes as well.) Platina, Bartolomeo "De honesta voluptate". (Original published by L. de Aguila, Venice in 1475) Translated by Elizabeth Buermann Andrews. Published by Mallinckrodt Chemical Works in the Mallinckrodt collection of food classics v. 5, 1967. English translation and original Latin on opposite pages. LC Call No.: TX711 .P5 1967. Dewey No.: 641.5945 I do not have the ISBN, but this book is available in the Library of Congress listings, so you may be able to get it through Inter-Library Loan. Joseph Dommers Vehling also wrote a book entitled "Platina and the rebirth of man", W. M. Hill, Chicago, 1941. LC Call No.: TX713.P6 V4, Dewey No.: 641.5. The description in the LOC catalog is "Included in a series of lectures by the author delivered at Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, during the years 1933 to 1938" and MAY contain some translations of Platina's work. Duke Cariadoc's Miscelleny also contains translations of several of Platina's recipes which, as you can tell from the sources above, were printed in 1475. There are a few other Italian works that I would LOVE to get and perhaps translate someday. Bartolomeo Scappi's "Opera" (or Works) written in 1596, Domenico Romoli's "La singolare dottrina di M. Domenico Romoli sopranominato Panunto", and Cristoforo di Messisbugo's "Banchetti compositioni di vivande, et apparecchio generale di Christoforo di Messisbugo" among others. Someone also mentioned "The Art of Renaissance Cooking", also by, I believe, Gillian Riley. (I don't have to book with me to give the specifics). While it does not have direct translations, it does give some sourcing of when, where and who created the recipes that her redactions are created from. Some very nice recipes, but without knowing enough italian to make use of it, her biography leaves me in the same boat as you, still searching for more. If you come up with any more translated works PLEASE share! (Beg, plead, grovel, etc...) Honos Servio, Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra (mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX) zarlor at acm.org From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" <grizly at mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 13:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - italian food Aoibheall (Lea D Wittie) wrote: > does anyone know a good source of period italian recipies online? > i'm doing a feast for an italian wedding next spring amd am trying to > remedy my complete lack of knowledge concerning period italian. > -Aibell inghean Dairenn The thing to remember is that there has never, really, been an "Itlaian" cuisine. The cooking and culture has been regional (like 'Chinese' cooking) since way before the Papal states of around 13th century. The country we now know as Italy used to be a region of separate sovreignties, dutchies, city-states that were most often at war with some other entity or other (kinda like today's Italy). Even today, the food eaten and produced in neighboring regions is quite variant from even neighboring regions. What region (Romagna, Tuscany, Umbria). Even great cities of the middle ages such as Venice, Florence, Rome had different trade routes attendant to them and their food. Try searching under regional cultures/cuisisnes. - -- In Humble Service to God and Crown; fra nicol difrancesco (mka nick sasso) AOA?,CMC Barony of the South Downs Knaves of Grain Barrister's House Heavy Archer From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:34:50 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Roman cookbook >linneah at erols.com wrote: >> Greetings. I just heard something about a cookbook published in 1475 by a >> Roman librarian named "Sacci" (sp?). Does anyone have information on it? >> >> Linneah > >That wouldn't be Bartolomeo Scappi, would it? > >If so, he is the author of "De Honestae Voluptuae", under the name >Platina. > >Adamantius Also: Il Cuoco Segreto di Papa Pio V (The Private Chef of Pope Pius V), by Bartolomeo Scappi, Venice, 1570. This is chock full of marvelous illustrations, including one of an Italian field kitchen. I'd dearly love to get my hands on a copy of this book if anyone has one... Sincgiefu a.k.a. Cindy Renfrow renfrow at skylands.net Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:43:47 GMT From: zarlor at acm.org (Lenny Zimmermann) Subject: SC - Ren. Italian Sources I promised a while back to list some of the bibliography from Gillian Riley's "Painters & Food: Renaissance Recipes". It's not that easy to figure out which source she is using where and which ones are strictly for the artwork and have no actual recipes. I'll try to extract what I can from it. Some sources we know of as the main Italian Ren. source books. These are: Platina, Bartolomeo. "De honesta voluptate"; Venice, L. De Aguila, 1475. Messisbugo, Christoforo. "Libro Novo"; Venice, 1557. Scappi, Bartolomeo. "Opera"; Milano, 1570. Castelvetro, Giacomo. "The Fruits, Herbs and Vegetables of Italy"; London, 1614. In addition, though it is not in her bibliography, she lists the diary of Maria Vitorria della Verda (1555-1622), a nun in Perugia, as a source for stories on everyday life as well as a few recipes. Felici, Costanzo. "Del'Insalata e Piante che in Qualunque Modo Vengono per Cibo Del'homo" (According to Riley, this gentleman wrote a collection of letters evolved into a treatise on salads and the fruits and vegetables of Italy. A precursor to Castelvetro, perhaps? She doesn't list publication dates but he is listed as living from 1525-1585.) Now if anyone finds any translations of the above, please let me know. I have Castelvetro and Platina, but I would love to have any translations of the rest of these if anyone comes across them. Otherwise I'll do what I can in getting Italian/Latin pieces and translating as best as I may with an English/Italian and a Latin dictionary. Oh, and Apicius is a good source even for Italian Ren. cooking. The reason is that even Platina refers to him quite often, so it is more than plausible that you might find a kitchen or party where a feast is created around ancient roman foods. Especially when you consider the typical Italian (especially humanist) interest in the ancients and their culture. Honos Servio, Lionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra (mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio, TX) zarlor at acm.org Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:56:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery >A new Gentle in our shire, who spent 18 months in Italy, would like >to do a period Italian feast next spring. I would greatly appreciate >any help you could give me on where to find recipes, etc. _The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: medieval recipes for today_ author: Barbara Santich pub. by: Chicago Review Press 1-55652-272-x It has 70 recipes, with (1) the originals (2) a translation and (3) the modern version. You can't get much more on-target than this. It is a trade paperback. Lady Carllein Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:09:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Nancee Beattie <nbeattie at mail.inlink.com> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Period Italian Cookery An excellent source for period Italian food is Platina's On Honest Indulgence (De Honesta Voluptate). Falconwood press has published a translated version. Alban St. Alban used to carry it, and probably still does. Meredydd Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:07:24 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Cookery Myths and a "New" Book (Longish) >Greetings! I've been meaning to write about some of the "new" books I >found when a recent post "tickled" my memory from one of them. Someone >mentioned that Catherine de Medici brought Italian cooks to France, >which is apparantly an "old cooks' legend" and not accurate. Elizabeth >David, one of the cooking "gods" has a new version of her _Italian >Food_ which I was going to tell you all about. (Actually, her estate >does. She died a few years ago.) (ISBN 0-7651-9651-4) The book >currently appears to be on "mark down" at Borders Bookstores for $5.99! > The book is profusely illustrated, mostly with reproductions of >_period_ art which depict various aspects of cookery. For the pictures >and documentation alone, it's worth the price. <deleted> > >Alys Katharine I'll stop by Borders on my way home. There is a book of recipes associated with Catherine de Medici. It was published in 1555 by Girolamo Rusceli, an Italian who was Catherine's astrologer. The book is The Secrets of the Reverand Master Alixis of Piedmont and it has been described to me as a collection of remedies with the odd cooking recipe thrown in. Bear Date: 7 MAY 98 15:09:15 AST From: RMcGrath at dca.gov.au Subject: SC - Italian Cooking http://www.italcuisine.it/index.htm discusses briefly the history of Italian cooking ... but a caveat - the English translation isn't up yet! Ciao, ho molto da fare qui. Non puoi scrivere troppo! Rakhel Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:20:35 -0400 From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: [Sca-cooks]Italian Cookery was New member intro. There are two bibliographic sources that you should start with in Italian Cookery. Westbury, Lord [David Alan]. Handlist of Italian Cookery Books. Florence [Firenze]:, Olschki, 1963. Cagle, William R. A Matter of Taste. A Bibliographical Catalogue of International Books on Food and Drink. Revised edition. New Castle, Delaware: Oak Knoll Press, 1999. Do not be too quick to dismiss any Italian printed book. Just because an edition might be published in Rome does not mean that an earlier or later edition might not have been the product of Venice or Bologna or Turin or Naples or Ferrara. There are a number that cannot be identified as to place. We have volumes that are described as "new edition, Ferrara, 1601. Originally published [Florence? 1550?]. Moreover, the originals might have been in Latin and then translated into Italian for subsequent publication or even vice versa. You might want to also consult: Claudio Benorat's Storia della Gastronomia Italiana. Milan: Ugo Mursia, 1990. It has 9 pages of bibliography. Johnnae llyn Lewis From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [SCA-cooks] Italian Renn. Food Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:44:35 -0500 >One point, Platina is based very heavily on MM, who is a Neapolitan (sp) >isn't he? Southern Italian rather than Northern? (my memory is totally shot >today so I could be totally off base here...) If so, is there any >distinctive difference between the two regional cuisines? Master Martino Rossini (IIRC) is from Como, which would make him Northern Italian. Neopolitan cooking does differ from that of Northern Italy, being influenced by Moorish, Norman and Spanish cookery. >There are recipes from "Libro di cucina del secolo XI" a Venetian cookbook, >in "The Medieval Kitchen", both in original, translation and redaction form. > >Al Servizio Vostro, e del Sogno >Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia Again IIRC, this is Scappi's Opera. Bear From: Devra at aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:32:32 EDT To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks - Florentine Food Did anyone mention Scully's NEAPOLITAN FOOD(Cuisine ...) [I'm at work and don't have the exact title). Available from Univ MI, hardcover, $47.50. Devra the Baker Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:51:10 -0500 From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th C. Florence was Suggestions anyone? Take a look at: Carole Lambert's Du Manuscrit a la Table. which was published in Montreal in 1992. It has the following essay in it: Grieco, Allen J. "From the Cookbook to the Table: A Florentine Table and Italian Recipes of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Centuries." pages 29-38. It has a number of footnotes that may prove helpful. Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:34:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Italian cooking sources On 9 Jan 2002, at 17:57, Mark.S Harris wrote: > > Grieco, A.J.: From the cookbook to the table. A Florentine table and > > Italian recipes of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In: > > Lambert, C. (Dir.): Du manuscrit =E0 la table. Montr=E9al/ Paris 1992, > > 29-38. > > Of course, even though these titles are in English that doesn't > mean the contents are. But the other titles in the bibliography > are not in English, so maybe these are. I have the book in hand. The article is in English, but -- alas! -- it does not contain any recipes. It is a discussion of the relationship between dishes listed on actual historic menus and recipes found in cookbooks of the same period. Some recipe names are mentioned, but it is not a useful source for someone planning a feast. Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] On the subject of Italian food. To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Just wanted to let people know that I have been busy making available the Italian translations I have been doing on or off for the last year. These are all linked from my webpage : http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/ There is: Libro di cucina translation - Updated libro translation - An Italian Feast - On the nature of cheese - Stuffed pasta recipes - Hare with papardelle - Pesto like recipes - Strawberry pie - Rice dish - Recipes for Roman macaroni, roast lamb and fruit soup -Five stuffing recipes from 16th century texts - Sambugado - Little morsels or Biscotti from 16th century Italy - Menus featuring biscotti - Other biscotti recipes - As I am almost continually updating and adding new pages I figured it was easier to send people to the home page rather than list 12 web addresses. Helewyse (trying to get stuff organized at last). Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Mediterranean food To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org >> Clifford Wright ties part of this together in his book-- A >> Mediterranean Feast. > Johnnae llyn Lewis Clifford's Wright's Website also has some essays about Italian medieval food, particularly about Sicily. Apparently butter and lard were more in use there than olive oil, it seems odd to me that butter in period was cheaper, but that seemed to be the case. I also found out that Clifford Wright will also take the time to write to you, if you have a question you think he could answer. That's really cool. Gianotta Date: Tu, 16 Dec 2004 18:31:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Italian March menus To: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>, Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Christiane wrote: > There's a little more information in the book about how the kitchens > were supplied at Ferrara, what they used, and what they grew and > raised. Let me know if it's of interest to anyone, and I'll post it. Kiri wrote: Yes, I'd be very interested in this latter information, if it's not too much trouble.... <<< Not too much trouble at all! The information isn't very extensive, alas, but there might be a morsel or two in it that you may find appetizing <g>. The writer says the poor ate little fish during Lent because of scarcity of fresh fish and accompanying high prices; the poor stuck with beans, chickpeas, fruit, and vegetables. Direct quotes here: "Due to the difficulty of keeping food fresh, the predominant taste in dishes of the day was of preservatives - salt or sugar. In Lucrezia's kitchen, the pig was the most useful animal, prepared in various ways and used in he making of salami, and sausages (zambudelli) and prosciutto. Salted ox tongues were also appreciated for their practicality [here I have to break in and say, Italians ate pastrami?]." "Fruits in syrup of sugar and spices were particularly appreciated by Isabella d'Este, who frequently requested them from Lucrezia's 'Vincentio spetiale' [he was a confectioner and part of Lucrezia's household]. They also raised capons, calves, peacocks, and guinea fowl (galline da India), kid, ducks and swan, supplemented by game in season, and given the lagoons and waterways of the Po area, they ate a great variety of fish, notably eels from the Comacchio and carpioni provided by Isabella from Lake Garda. Then there were cheeses and pasta dishes." The writer goes on to say something about the presentation of banquets. Often they were a movable feast held in different rooms in different seasons, with a credenza loaded with cold dishes and the family's display of gold and silver plate. Most of te Este plate, however, had pretty much disappeared by 1515, melted down or pawned to provide funds to fight back against Pope Julius II. The court ate off of pottery produced, believe it or not, by Duke Alfonso II, Lucrezia's husband (he apparently was quite the craftsman, also cast his own large artillery cannon). Hot courses of at least eight dishes each from the kitchen alternated with cold courses served from the credenza. At Lucrezia's court, everything was coordinated by Cristoforo da Mssibugo. He was apparently pretty famous in his own day and wrote a book called "Banchetti." I bet Helewyse and others on this list might know where a copy in English would be available! Unfortunately I don't. Gianotta Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:23:37 -0800 (PST) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] libro novo by C. Messisbugo To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org <sip> At Lucrezia's court, everything was coordinated by Cristoforo da Messibugo. He was apparently pretty famous in his own day and wrote a book called "Banchetti." I bet Helewyse and others on this list might know where a copy in English would be available! Unfortunately I don't. Gianotta This is the book translated by Master Basillius of the Midrealm, he has it on CD. He will be selling it at Candlemas this upcoming February. I have contact information for both him and his apprentice Rachao. If anyone is interested in a copy and aren't conveniently living in the midwest if you contact me off list I will pass their contact information on to you and you can work it out from there. Helewyse Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:31:34 -0400 From: Robin <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meats Pizziola To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Adam N Bratcher wrote: > Hello all, The local shire i play with is planning a picnic in the > park shortly and the requested main dish is to be late 16th century > Italy cooking. Helwyse has translated some recipes from Scappi, which is late 16th c. Italian. Look at her website: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/ -- Brighid ni Chiarain Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom Robin Carroll-Mann *** rcmann4 at earthlink.net Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:06:44 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meats Pizziola To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> On Jul 5, 2005, at 11:19 PM, Adam N Bratcher wrote: > Hello all, The local shire i play with is planning a picnic in the > park shortly and the requested main dish is to be late 16th century > Italy cooking. After doing a bit of searching, I found most of the > cookbooks i need are in Italian. Now being of the non Italian > speakig group, i have a distinct disadvantage. A dish i know of > coming from that time period is a dish called Meats Pizziola. Does > anyone know where i might find a reciepe for this? I would be very > grateful for any help in this quest. > > Adam If you want a modern recipe, they're all over the Web, if you do a search for steak pizzaiola (try that spelling; it seems to be the most consistently used). Also look for chicken pizzaiola, veal pizzaiola, etc. Basically in its current incarnation (no pun intended), it's a dish of sauteed cutlets or other small meat slices lightly braised in a sauce made from plum tomatoes, wine, garlic, parsley and oregano. There doesn't seem to be too much information available as to why it is called pizzaiola, although the ingredients are among those you'd probably find in any pizzeria. And in an interesting example of form following name rather than function, some (but by no means all) pizzaiola recipes do involve melting mozzarella cheese on top of the finished dish. I have no idea if the dish is period, unless one simply works on the assumption that all dishes calling for tomatoes are a possibility after 1492 CE. Depending on how important adherence to periodicity is to you, you could either A) cook a modern dish of pizzaiola, and present it as a modern dish, B) find a period recipe for pizzaiola in one of the period Italian sources, some of which are available in English (Scappi has been mentioned, and Platina also has some recipes for little meat slices, although that source is 15th-century and doesn't include tomatoes in any of its recipes), C) find and use another period recipe for meat slices (or anything else) that probably won't be recognizable as pizzaiola, or D) cook any of the period dishes of meat slices (usually grilled, but there may be some sauteed dishes out there), and then serve it with a tomato sauce like the one Gerard describes in his English-language Herbal of the late 16th century as a Spanish sauce. The result would be a more or less conjectural dish of [dish name, i.e. scaloppini, carne, whatever] in salsa Espagnola. That last one would be a bit of a stretch, but I've seen worse. If it were me, I'd prepare one of the period meat-slice dishes from Scappi, Platina, or another source, and consider serving the tomato sauce on the side, or simply not bother with the sauce, or choose a known period-and-place-specific sauce from the same source to go with the meat, such as a green sauce made from herbs and vinegar. After all, isn't a great part of the SCA experience doing the things we wouldn't be doing in a mundane setting? We dress differently, do different things for fun, listen to different music, etc. Why not eat something different, too? Adamantius Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: meat pizziola To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Adam, I doubt very much that your source was accurate. Fiction writers rarely need to check their facts the way that cooks should. It will probably be a very tasty dish, a fact that is hard to argue with. But it certainly isn't a period Italian one. There are braised meats in sauce in many of the Italian cookbooks but the recipe rarely starts with browning the meat in a pan. Roasting it and then cooking it a little further yes. There is a recipe from the libro novo where thin slices of veal meat are pounded flat, seasoned with vinegar and salt. A stuffing of herbs, fennel, garlic, lard, eggs, is made, rolled up in the meat and then they are cooked on the spit, before being stewed with bitter orange. They can also be filled with cheese. There is also a recipe for sausages which are cooked on the spit and then stewed with sugar, cinnamon and bitter orange. Recipe 87A is most similar to the pizaolla. (Taken from Master Basillius translation of the libro novo). Meat slices fried in the frying pan Take the meat and make thin slices, like in the others it is named (recipe 98B) and pound them well with the back ofthe knife, and put them in a pot with salt, pepper and pounded fennel and vinegar, and if you shall want a little crushed garlic, (it is) nothing to leave it out. And leave them for a quarter-hour, and then dip them in flour and fry in lard, and when they are cooked put over them bitter oranges or royal sauce, or brown sauce or others. Royal sauce for ten platters: Take a terra cotta pot of new earth (i.e. a new pot) and put inside it two pounds of good sugar, and flour glassfulss (about 28 ounces) of strong white vinegar, and twelve whole cloves, and a piece of good cinnamon stick cut very finely. then put it to the fire over the coals and make it to boil so much that should thicken it and skim it well, and watch that it does not get too thick, and a small amount of ground nutmeg shall be good. To make a brown sauce for ten platters: Take a pound of seeded raisins and the crumb of three toasted breads, and soak in strong vinegar and pound everything well together. Then take a carafe (~0.979 liters) of good red wine and two glassfuls (~14 ounces) of good strong vinegar and dilute everything together and pass through the cloth filter. Then add a pound of honey, more or less, if in your judgement it has enough sweetness and sourness, an ounce of ground cinnamon, a half-ounce of pepper, a half-ounce of ginger, a quarter-ounce of cloves. And you shall put it in a pot, with a pound of seeded raisins and you shall make it to boil until it is thick, always stirring it, and make it to cook very slowly. Then you shall place it in the small platters, in there place, or over fowls or roasted meats, or fried fishes, or where you like, and sauces of this kind can also be made with breadcrumbs. Use these recipes if you would like. They are not meat pizziola, but then pizza wasn't pizza until much later (check http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/pizza.html ) for examples of period "pizza" it basically meant flat flaky bread. Helewyse >>> Some one ask about where i heard about this Meats Pizziola dish. I read it in a book i read some years ago called Shogun. I recall one of the characters wishing he was back home in Italy where he could eat Meats Pizziola and some other dish. Here is one recipe i have found so far. www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1926,152182-245204,00.html Just for giggles i am going to try it out on Sunday. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Adam <<< Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 04:52:14 -0700 (PDT From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: How meals are served in period To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Maggie, Asa student of Late Italian cuisine I offered a class at MKCC last year regarding design of the Italian feast based on the menus available in Scappi. I posted notes from my class here http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/italianfeastplanning.html Scappi gave wonderful detail about all his feasts allowing us to determine how feasts were served in the Vatican at least. Messisbugo (Banchetti) also gives some feast menus and they too appear to follow a similar plan, using the sideboard to serve the first ad last courses. If you let me know what month you are doing feast I may be able to get some menus translated for you after Pennsic (too much to do too little time to do it in advance of Pennsic). The only supper type menus seem to be those served on saints days. http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/octobermenus.html scroll down to the very last menu for details. Helewyse >>>> I've been curious about how meals are served in period. I"ve always been told that it was served in courses/removes, with each eing a miniature meal in itself. Was this always done? Recently I noticed a feast that was served apparently an item at a time, not in "courses/removes" and was done really really well. Is there a document somewhere that describes a _simple_ meal? (I tend to doubt that because why would anyone write about a meal that wasn't unusual in some sense?) I'm trying to plan a meal that the event steward has asked be themed in late period Italian, so that will play a part in it too. (I've been reading "The Star Dispose" and "The Stars Compel" and getting lots of inspiration from their interpretations of Apicius). Maggie MacD. <<< Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 10, Issue 57 To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Jadwiga wrote: Since it's unclear how often salads were served, should I try to limit how often I make salad in the SCA? Depends? Now for 16th century Italian food, salads turn up just about every dinner in the first course, along with such other foods not eaten in the north such as raw fruit. They are listed in just about every dinner menu made from any number of interesting things. In addition there is a book Archidipno overo dell'insalata e dell'vso di essa ... / da Saluatore Massonio ... In Venetia : appresso Marc'Antonio Brogiollo ..., 1627. Which only talks about salads and it's free online at dioscoredes: http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp? ref=B20397215&idioma=0 It talks about vinegar, oil, salt and why this is how a salad should be dressed, then talks about other dressing ingredients including: sapa, lemon and sour orange juice, pepper and garlic. Then introduces each vegetable and herb that can be served in a salad, and how it is prepared for that salad. It is more of a health manual than a cookbook so you have to wade through all the stuff plagiarized from worthy Latin sources to find the cooking information but is is there (usually in the form: and these are more healthful if roasted before serving cold, with a dressing of sour orange juice salt and olive oil). Some vegetables covered: Parsnips, ramps, beet root, cress, turnip, radishes, sprouts, fennel, asparagus, truffles, lettuce, endive, chicory, rocket, nasturtium, borage, lemon balm, beans, cauliflower, peas, squash, and a whole bunch of herbs. So I say salad ahead, of course you'll need to start cooking 16th century Italian, but that's no bad thing:-) Helewyse Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:24:04 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> Subject: [Sca-cooks] I ricettari di Federico II was new medieval cookbook Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:50:59 -0500 To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, Here is part of the rundown on I ricettari di Federico II! The review in PPC 81 from 2006 notes: An important edition of the Liber de coquina in all its guises from a core of southern Italian recipes to various regional overlays and reworkings. A long introduction discusses the state of Scilian cookery in the reign of the Hohenstaufen Emperor Frederick II and the several manuscripts are serially collated so that the reader can compare and contrast." OldCook.com gives a fairly good summary of the thesis that the book is presenting. http://www.oldcook.com/liber_de_coquina.htm Google will translate if need be. Johnnae Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:50:00 -0400 From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] good herbs To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> otsisto wrote: > When a translation says "good herbs" what is the standard generic > list of herbs added? I see from your subsequent post that this is an Italian recipe. There's a classic trio of herbs in Spanish cooking that I have also seen in Italian recipes: parsley, mint, and marjoram. Brighid ni Chiarain Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:32:29 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> The 1300's ought to be the mid 14th century, right? There are some 14th century Italian manuscripts that have been published. Take a look at Mistress Helewyse's Italian cookery pages at http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/ There's a list of what's available in terms of manuscripts and books that she has found: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/italianbibliography.html http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/Italianfoodmanuscripts.html Libri de ricette, testi sopra lo scalco, il trinciante e i vini dal XIV al XIX secolo. contains the anonymous Venetian cookbook (Anonimo Venetiano) and the anonymous Tuscan (Anonimo Toscano). Both these recipe collections have been transcribed and are available on the web. The transcription of the Anonimo Toscano is available at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/an-tosc.htm <http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/an-tosc.htm> There is no translation of this. The transcription of the Anonimo Venetiano is available at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/frati.htm <http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/frati.htm> The translation of this is available at: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html with an updated translation slowly being webbed at: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libroenglish Those might work for you. Johnnae Anplica Fiore wrote: > Here's something for you all to ruminate over if we need something to > talk about. >grin< For Twelth Night this year, we're encouraging > everyone in our group to bring a dish for the pot luck that is > period-correct (or even close) for their persona. I hail from > 1300-ish Central Italy. Any ideas? I've seen a couple Italian > cookbooks online from the 14th-15th Century, but not earlier. > > An Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:07:24 -0700 From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Well, it's late 1300s, but it's Italian: http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/LibroDellaCocina.html I host a cookbook on my website translated by my friend, Vittoria Aureli. It's a Tuscan cookbook, variously known as Anonimo Tuscano, and Libro della Cocina. The original is not on my website, but there's a link to the original Italian on Thomas Gloning's website, so if you down load both you can compare them. His website has moved a few times in the past year, so if the link doesn't take you to his site, do a search for his name to find his current URL. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:56:43 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> The Anonimo Venetiano referenced in an earlier message was originally written somewhere between 1300 and 1350. It was edited from a 15th Century manuscript by Ludovico Frati, combined with the Anonimo Toscano (late 14th or early 15th Century) and published as Libro de cucina secolo XIV in 1899. Other than a dietary text and a collection of sauce recipes, both by Magninus Mediolanensis, the Anonimo Venetiano is as close as you will likely get to what you want. To repeat the urls, transcript of the Frati text: http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/frati.htm Modern translation: http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html Bear ----- Original Message ----- Looks like there are some good dishes in these. Thank you! I was hoping for something closer to 1300, but I know documentation can be tough the earlier you go. I'm thinking of a roasted pork with the pepper sauce. Looks very yummy. An Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:31:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> > Looks like there are some good dishes in these. > Thank you! I was hoping for something closer to > 1300, but I know documentation can be tough the > earlier you go. I'm thinking of a roasted pork with > the pepper sauce. Looks very yummy. You may want to look at the LIber de Coquina then. The Latin text was composed sometimes around 1300 (experts believe) from two separate vernacular texts, one of which is placed in Southern Italy. Available in print, translation by Robert Maier, at a surprisingly reasonable price (ISBN 3-937446-08-7). The translation is into German, but he includes the Middle Latin text so you should be able to figure it out even if you don't read German. IIRC there is also an Italian translation or edition of this book out there, but I haven't been able to track it down yet. Giano Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:33:39 +0000 (GMT) From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ideas for 1300 Italy To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org You might want to search for further information on the "brigata spendereccia", a bunch of 12 young men of Siena, Italy, who were famous in their time (second half of the 13th century) for having spent lots of money on good food and other pleasant things. They are mentioned later on by Dante and others. I have no idea, however, if there is information on what exactly they were eating and how it was prepared. Some of the authors mentioning the brigata spendereccia are quoted in this article of the "Tesoro della Lingua Italiana delle origini" (Tesoro della Lingua Italiana delle origini. Il primo dizionario storico dell'italiano antico che nasce direttamente in rete: http://tlio.ovi.cnr.it/): http://tlio.ovi.cnr.it/voci/006678.htm The libro de coquina and its companion text are online at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/mul2-lib.htm http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/mul1-tra.htm Emilio Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:59:21 +0000 (GMT) From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Searching for Period Italian Leek Soup recipe To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Consider this: "Incipit registrum coquine in quadragesima, et primo de porro. Sic fac ministrum de porro. Recipe porrum album, et lava eum bene, et fac eum modicum bulire; et tunc trita eum cum cultello, et tempera eum cum lacte amigdalarum, et mitte intus oleum olive, et panem grattatum, cum zapharano. Et erit bonum pro canonicis et vicariis ecclesiasticis." (Giovanni Bockenheym, La cucina di Papa Martino V, 1995). Johannes Bockenheym/Giovanni Bockenheym served as a cook to pope Martin V. His "registrum coquine" is written in Latin and includes both aspects of Italian and international cuisine of 15th century Rome. I am not sure if ministrum/minestra is a soup or rather something like a thick broth or something else. Emilio <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris fd-Italy-msg Page 18 of 18