fd-India-msg - 12/24/18
Food of medieval India. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: India-lnks, Moghul-India-msg, spices-msg, Islam-msg, gums-resins-msg, p-spice-trade-msg, dairy-prod-msg, dates-msg, coconuts-msg.
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:05:27 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ancient India
To: mirhaxa at morktorn.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
You might take a look here for an overview of Indian cookery and foods.
/Food Culture in India/ by Colleen Taylor Sen.
http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/GR2487.aspx
It includes a Timeline of Indian Food History and Historical Overview
and Attitudes Toward Food.
Johnnae
Linda Peterson wrote:
<<< I got a question from someone and thought I'd throw it out to the
list. What would be typical available foodstuffs of India at the time
of Buddha, ~500BCE?
Mirhaxa >>>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:11:48 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi Houston" <jimandandi at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ancient India
To: <mirhaxa at morktorn.com>, "'Cooks within the SCA'"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
The timeline in Colleen Sen's book is accurate but oversimplified, because
it doesn't differentiate between the regions of India. India is very large
and only became a single country in the last 50 years. There are major
linguistic, cultural and religious differences between North, South, East,
West and Central regions of India.
There are some really excellent books available in English about historical
Indian cooking- anything by KT Achaya, Food and Drinks in Ancient India by
Om Prakash, and various translated manuscripts.
Madhavi
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:42:54 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi Houston" <jimandandi at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ancient India
To: <mirhaxa at morktorn.com>, "'Cooks within the SCA'"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Foods written about in the Buddhist Pitakas (5th century BC):
Barley, many different kinds and colors of rice, some wheat in the north,
millet in the south, many native pulses including chickpeas
Hindus and Buddhists were still eating meat, including cows in some places,
the concept of ahimsa does not take root until 800 years later.
Spices include asafetida, mustard seed, ginger, camphor and nutmeg
Fruits included coconut, jackfruit, palm, grapes, phalsa, and several kinds
of citrus
The Buddha himself wrote in the Lankavatara Sutra: "I enjoin the taking of
food made out of rice, barley, wheat, mudga, masha, masura and other grains,
ghee, oil of sesamum, honey, molasses, sugar, fish, eggs and others, which
are full of soul qualities but devoid of faults; they were consumed by the
rishis of yore."
Madhavi
-----Original Message-----
I got a question from someone and thought I'd throw it out to the list.
What would be typical available foodstuffs of India at the time of Buddha,
~500BCE?
Mirhaxa
mirhaxa at morktorn.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:11:47 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ancient India
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I actually own Om Prakash
Food and Drinks in Ancient India from Earliest Times to c. 1200 A.D.
I managed to buy a copy about 5 years ago. I checked and prices for the
1961 edition are about $70 now which is about three times higher than they were then. I think I paid $20ish.
Another of his books is more reasonably priced and it's a two volume set
for less than $25--
Economy and Food in Ancient India.
The description says that volume 2 contains
*I. Geographical And Cultural Background; II. Prehistoric and
Protohistoric Age; Food and Drinks; III. (c 1500-1800 B.C. ) Vedic
Period; Iv. (c800-300 B.C. ): Section I: Sutra Period; SEction 2. Early
Buddhist and Jain Works; V. (c. 300 BC and 75 A.d. ): Section I; maurya
and Sunga Period; Section 2. The Epics and the Manusmrti; VI. (c 75 Ad.
-300 AD): The Kusana and Saka Satavahana Period; VII. (c 300-750 AD):
Gupta Period; VIII. (c. 750-1200 AD): post gupta period;
That might provide everything the reader wants. The drawback is that it
has to be ordered from India or found on interlibrary loan.
-------
KT Achaya's Indian Food: a Historical Companion is running around $70
now too.Some stores are listing it as well over $120 for the hardback.
Check around because used copies of the paperback are running around $50
on Amazon this am.
His The Illustrated Foods of India is due
out in the UK in April 2009. Amazon here in the US says April too so
that may be available here sometime later this year.
A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food by Achaya is listed at
Amazon, right now however. It's $35 but they don't have copies in
stock. You'll have to place an order and wait.
----
I mentioned Colleen Sen's book because you are more likely to find that volume in an undergraduate or public library at the moment or find it available for interlibrary loan. And there is a bibliography.
We just watched Michael Wood's India on PBS so perhaps there will be
more of a demand for things Indian this year.
Johnnae
Jim and Andi Houston wrote:
The timeline in Colleen Sen's book is accurate but oversimplified, because
it doesn't differentiate between the regions of India. India is very large
and only became a single country in the last 50 years. There are major
linguistic, cultural and religious differences between North, South, East,
West and Central regions of India.
There are some really excellent books available in English about historical
Indian cooking- anything by KT Achaya, Food and Drinks in Ancient India by
Om Prakash, and various translated manuscripts.
Madhavi
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:05:16 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: maysun at maddcow.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian cooking
With respect:
With respect to Cariadoc, the Nimatnama is not Mughal. The Nimatnama was
written in Mandu, which is in the modern state of Madya Pradesh, by the
last emperor of the Khalji dynasty 30 years before the Mughals invaded.
The Nimatnama is true fusion cuisine from a Muslim Turkic culture which
had been blending with the predominant Hindu culture for almost two
hundred years, as the first Khaljis conquered central India in the
1300s. The food is quite different from the food of the early Mughals.
Selewine, if you are interested in the Byzantine-era cuisines of India,
there are sources available; scant descriptions of feasts, some medical
texts, a few individual dishes. There are other translated Indian
cooking manuscripts but they are much later, such as the Manasollasa.
Medieval Indian food is quite exotic. The cooking methods and spicing is
extremely foreign to the average American palate. This could be a
fascinating challenge if you have the time and energy for the research
and recipe testing. Even modern Indian food is difficult to cook well;
though serving modern Indian food at a feast is no different than
serving Kentucky Fried Chicken. It's just as "medieval".
Unless you are able to devote a great deal of time to researching and
testing recipes in the few short weeks before your feast, I would urge
you to explore the foods of Byzantine or Roman cuisine instead, which
are better-documented and more approachable to the modern diner.
However, if you are interested, please feel free to contact me. I would
be happy to share my bibliography.
Madhavi
An Crosaire, Trimaris
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:54:02 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian cooking
What sources other than the _Ain i Akbari_ do we have for the food of
the early Mughals?
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
------------
If you have not checked out the Nimatnama, I would sincerely urge you to
do so. It's a completely jaw-dropping parade of decadence, a list of
royal dishes cooked in a very, very wealthy court.
I have cooked several dishes from this manuscript for household dinners
and A&S competitions, and I am cooking a feast from it in September.
Sources that are translated and easily available? Not many other than
the Ain-i-Akbari. There are a few mentions of food in the Babur-nama and
one scant feast description in the Humayun-nama, written by Gulbadan
Begum. Those quotes are mostly referenced in A Historical Dictionary of
Indian Food by KT Achaya. There are several traveler memoirs referenced
in Food and Drinks in Mughal India by Satya Prakash Sangar, but that's a
difficult book to use, since the author lumps all of the Mughal period
together, and only the first 75 years fall within our period.
Madhavi
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:28:54 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian cooking
I apologize, Huette, for not communicating clearly enough. I will
happily attempt to clear up any confusion between my "rant" and the
reply to Cariadoc's question.
The Nimatnama is most certainly not Mughal, which you, as someone who
has obviously read the manuscript yourself, of course already knew. The
first two paragraphs of that email are merely urging Cariadoc to take a
look at the book because I think he would be interested.
The third paragraph is about other early Mughal resources. I thought I
had notified the reader to the change of subject by reiterating
Cariadoc's question about other sources.
I am quite surprised that you had never come across pre-1600
descriptions for samosas before reading the Nimatnama, there are two
samosa recipes in the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook, one in the Baghdad
Cookery Book, and another in the Description of Familiar Foods.
Madhavi
-----Original Message-----
I am sorry, Madhavi, but you have me very confused. When several people
mentioned the Ni'matnama as Mughal, you went into a rant about how the
manuscript and the people of Mandu were not Mughal.
When Cariadoc just asked what other _Mughal_ cookbooks there were other
than the Ain I Akbari, because your rant seemed to indicate that there
were more within period sources, you now have recommended the Ni'matnama
as being a good source for _Mughal_ recipes. I am sorry, but you cannot
have it both ways. Either it is Mughal or it is not. Make up your
mind. In case you can't remember what you have said, I have included
his Grace's question and your response to him down below.
I have used the Ni'matnama several times for various SCA lunches and
banquets. I was so happy to find that samosas were period and without
the ubiquitous capsicum peppers. Here is a prime example of a food name
that continues for five+ centuries and changes as the people and their
tastes change. The same goes for vindaloo from Goa. It starts out as a
Portuguese pork dish made with garlic and vinegar called Vindalho and
with the introduction of capsicums to India becomes now the extremely
hot pork and peppers dish. One could serve the dish called Vindalho at
an SCA banquet because it can be traced back to Portugal pre-1600
[according to Madhur Jaffrey] but not Vindaloo.
Huette
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:45:52 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A not-Mughal Indian recipe
At our recent cooking workshop, I tried two of the simpler Nimatnama
recipes. One was all right but pretty dull, but the other I thought
was quite good. Here's the original and my version (second try):
[Nimatnama p. 15] Another recipe, for qaliya rice: put ghee into a
cooking pot and when it has become hot, flavour it with asafoetida
and garlic. When it has become well flavored, put the meat, mixed
with chopped potherbs, into the ghee. When it has become marinated
[!mistranslation!], add water and add, to an equal amount, one sir of
cow's milk. When it has come to the boil, add the washed rice. When
it is well cooked, take it off. Cook other rice by the same recipe
and, likewise, do not make it with cow's milk but put in four sirs of
garlic and whole peppers, and serve it.
Ghee 1/2 c
Asafoetida 1/8 t
Garlic 3 cloves
Salt 1/2 t
Meat 1 1/4 lb lamb
Potherbs 13 oz spinach
Whole milk 1 1/4 c
Water 1 1/4 c
Rice 1 1/2 c
Slice garlic, melt ghee, add asafoetida, fry garlic in ghee about 20 minutes.
Add meat and spinach, fry about ten minutes.
Add milk and water, bring to a boil. Add washed rice, cook about 25
minutes, let sit five minutes, serve.
The only deliberate change was adding salt, which it seemed to need,
judging by the first try. At least one period cookbook explicitly
says that it doesn't mention salt because cooks know to add it, so I
thought that was a plausible interpretation here.
According to the Nimatnama translation, 1 sir = 2.5 lbs troy, but I
do not believe that the variant which I didn't make replaces 2.5 lbs
of milk with ten pounds of garlic and whole peppers. My suspicion is
that either the "four" or the "sirs" is a scribal error or
misreading. The interpretation of "sir" isn't very relevant to my
version, since the milk is the only thing for which a quantity is
given.
It does imply, if correct, that the original recipe is intended to
make about twice the quantity of mine. That might be useful in making
sense of other recipe from the same source.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 0:11:21 -0500
From: <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Another not-Mughal Indian recipe
Sakhran- Nimatnama, p.93
Now the method for making sakhran has been written: take good mast, put ground potherbs into it, and strain it through a cloth. Add camphor, musk, cardamom, cloves and rosewater and prepare it with the perfume of flowers. When the flower perfume has been absorbed, throw away the flowers. Then cut up sections of the fruit of bananas very small and put them into it. Put the pulp of twelve bananas into the mast.
My redaction:
4 cups plain, full-fat yogurt (do not use low fat yogurt of any variety, only "cream top")
2 cups fresh spinach
8-10 fresh mint leaves
1/4 c fresh dill
8 fresh curry leaves
a few leaves of fresh sorrel
6 bruised cardamom pods
4 whole cloves, bruised
1/4 tsp edible musk
1/4 tsp ground edible camphor
1/4 tsp. rosewater
2 firm yellow bananas
Beat yogurt well. Take all fresh herbs and mince finely. Place potherbs in mortar and pound until it becomes a thick homogeneous paste. Add herb paste to yogurt and mix thoroughly. Line a large bowl with a piece of cheesecloth folded over several times or any kind of fine cloth. Dump yogurt and potherb mixture into cloth. Quickly gather the corners and edges and tie with a string. Hang the cloth over the sink for 3-4 hours.
Take the yogurt down and dump into a bowl Add all spices and beat thoroughly. Chill mixture. Just before serving, add chopped banana and stir in, and add salt to taste.
This is a surprisingly delicious relish, similar to a modern raita. I have never tried soaking flowers in the mixture to imbue it with their essence, as the flowers I know they would have used for this purpose I have not been able to find here.
*winking at Cariadoc*
Madhavi
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:28:01 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Feast in Shadiabad (Trimaris 25th Year
Sunday Feast)
<<< Menu and a whole lot more information. Enjoy.
http://madhavifeast.wordpress.com/
Madhavi >>>
It sounds impressive.
I couldn't readily tell from the site whether all of the recipes are
from the Nimatnama, or a mix of those and modern Indian recipes that
could be period. If the former, you, or someone, has done a lot of
work. I've done a few Nimatnama recipes, but only a few.
--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:17:33 -0400
From: "Jim and Andi Houston" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] possibly OOP: favorite Indian food recipes
I have quite a few period Indian dishes that I have redacted on my SCA
website:
Madhavifeast.wordpress.com
These are all my interpretations developed for feast production. I have more
redactions not on the website if you can't find what you're looking for.
Madhavi
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:51:38 +0100 (BST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Indian food / Nimatnama
A source from around 1500: Nimatnama or Ni'matnama
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00routesdata/1400_1499/mandu/nimatnama/nimatnama.html
E.
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 21:31:20 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian food
On Apr 2, 2013, at 1:14 PM, David Friedman wrote:
<<< I was asking about the other cookbook I thought you said existed.
"'Two Culinary works from Medieval Ujjaini The N?imatnama Manuscript of the Sultan Ghiyath Shahi of Mandu (1469 AD to 1500 AD) and Kshemakuthuhalam by Kshema Sarma "
Where do I find the second, or information about it? >>>
For all that wondered,
Lolimbaraja, Pammi Satyanarayana Sastry, and Kshema Sarma, Vaidy?vatamsah : an adornment to ayurveda, the science of life of L?limbar?ja : with excerpts of ancient cuisine from K?h?ma kut?halam K?h?ma ?arm?, Chowkamba Sanskrit Series, Varanasi 2006
is at
or
http://www.printsasia.com/book/vaidyavatamsah-of-lolimbaraja-mallolimbaraja-pranita-with-excerpts-of-8170802032-9788170802037?utm_source=googlebook&;utm_medium=opf&utm_campaign=feed
Offer Price
$ 3.36
I haven't located the Kshema Sarma, Kshemakuthuhalam, FRLHT Bangalore, Karnataka 2009 yet.
Johnnae
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 12:57:47 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian food
On 4/2/13 6:31 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
<<< For all that wondered,
Lolimbaraja, Pammi Satyanarayana Sastry, and Kshema Sarma, Vaidy?vatamsah : an adornment to ayurveda, the science of life of L?limbar?ja : with excerpts of ancient cuisine from K?h?ma kut?halam K?h?ma ?arm?, Chowkamba Sanskrit Series, Varanasi 2006
is at: http://tinyurl.com/csgcwlu >>>
I ordered it and it arrived today. 89 pages, partly sanskrit, partly
English. It includes a fair number of recipes, along with health
comments. I think what it is is a treatise on ayurvedic medicine, or
possibly a dictionary thereof, from one source, with recipes added from
two others. The recipes look usable--a bunch of syrups, but also solid
dishes.
So far as I can tell, it doesn't say anywhere what the dates of any of
the three sources are. But a google search found a reference to the
author of the main book, Lolimbaraja, which says he lived in the years
just before 1600--so in period for us, but barely.
Another source I found online has a chronology of Indian authors, and
dates the Ksema kutuhala composed by Ksema sarma to 1359, so well in
period for us.
The syrups, according to the introduction, are from Paniya kalpavalli. I
haven't located any information on its date.
--
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 07:47:11 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Indian food
Available here now
http://www.exoticindia.com/book/details/vaidyavatamsah-of-lolimbaraja-IDI602/
This page also lists the Table of Contents so people can see what it contains before purchase.
Johnnae
On Apr 25, 2013, at 3:57 PM, David Friedman wrote:
On 4/2/13 6:31 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
<< For all that wondered,
Lolimbaraja, Pammi Satyanarayana Sastry, and Kshema Sarma, Vaidy?vatamsah : an adornment to ayurveda, the science of life of L?limbar?ja : with excerpts of ancient cuisine from K?h?ma kut?halam K?h?ma ?arm?, Chowkamba Sanskrit Series, Varanasi 2006
is at
http://tinyurl.com/csgcwlu (no longer available through this source.) >>
I ordered it and it arrived today. 89 pages, partly sanskrit, partly English. It includes a fair number of recipes, along with health comments. I think what it is is a treatise on ayurvedic medicine, or possibly a dictionary thereof, from one source, with recipes added from two others. The recipes look usable--a bunch of syrups, but also solid dishes.
So far as I can tell, it doesn't say anywhere what the dates of any of the three sources are. But a google search found a reference to the author of the main book, Lolimbaraja, which says he lived in the years just before 1600--so in period for us, but barely.
Another source I found online has a chronology of Indian authors, and dates the Ksema kutuhala composed by Ksema sarma to 1359, so well in period for us. The syrups, according to the introduction, are from Paniya kalpavalli. I haven't located any information on its date.
>>>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 19:48:02 -0500
From: Sam Wallace <guillaumedep at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] India
As promised, I have brief reviews of the Paka Darpana of Nala and
Lokopakara
- Paka Darpana (
)
I bought it from the Exotic India website at a discount off the reasonable
price of $14 including shipping. This book is a scholarly treatment of the
work by Dr Madhlika, giving an alternating Sanskrit transcription and
English translation of the original manuscript.
The text is heavily annotated, but there is no bibliography, alas! The
original manuscript is attributed to Raja Nala, King of Nishadha. The work
starts with a rather lengthy intro which features a section on food theory
including a list of foodstuffs and their flavor profiles which segues into
recipes which give reasonably workable explanations of cooking techniques.
The recipe section is about 92 pages in length and contains numerous usable
examples covering a broad range of ingredients.
The physical quality of the book is not the best. It is a glue-bound
paperback. My experience with similar editions is that it is unsuitable for
use in the kitchen as the binding will start to deteriorate with normal
reading use alone. I plan on scanning it for use on a cheap tablet that I
have set up on a book stand in the kitchen.
- Lokopakara (
)
Also bought on sale on the Exotic India site (normally sold for $30), this
book is the 6th publication of the Asian Agri-History Foundations academic
journal. The original is attributed to Chavundaraya II (1025AD) and was
translated from Kannada into English by Valmiki Sreenivasa Ayangarya. This
work is concerned with a variety of subjects, devoting only one chapter to
recipes. That chapter contains about 55 recipes of varying degrees of
detail. The section contains some notes, but is not particularly well
organized in this regard. The commentary section following the translation
is very disorganized. I had to read through it twice before I found any
mention of the chapter of recipes (pp 102-105). There is no logical order
to this section. There are two indices of plant names at the rear of the
volume giving English and binomial names as well as a listing of verse and
page numbers where each is mentioned.
- Summary
Though the quality of the physical volume is somewhat lacking in this
edition, Paka Darpana was certainly good value for money spent, containing
a broad range of recipes presented in a well organized fashion. On the
other hand, Lokopakara is a little pricey for an audience that is
specifically focused on recipes that can be taken from it. I was surprised
at the lack of organization in what is purportedly a scholarly publication.
I would recommend this book to a completist interested in the particular
region and time the original hails from, but few beyond that.
Guillaume
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 23:26:37 -0500
From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Happy New Year
Nazirah,
The Westrip book is crap for SCA cooking, unfortunately. She likes to talk
about history but the recipes are straight up modern Moghlai/Mughal.
I suggest Food and Drinks in Mughal India as a good tertiary source and
bibliography mine. The date range is broad (it covers the entire Mughal
period) so you have to be very careful but there's a lot of important
information in there.
If you don't have it yet, the #1 book to help you is The Historical
Dictionary of Indian Food by KT Achaya. I can't say enough good things about
this book. Buy it. Read it. Love it.
For a feast there's nothing wrong with doing a little padding from period
manuscripts linked to the main culture somehow. In other words, if you don't
feel you have enough dishes in the Ain-i-Akbari to fill out a feast then you
could add dishes from the Nimatnama or something Persian.
Are you coming to Gulf Wars? I'll be cooking and teaching there.
Madhavi
Trimaris
-----Original Message-----
From: Sca-cooks
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces+jimandandi=cox.net at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf
Of Nazirah Garrison
I'm starting with the Ain-i-Akbari, yes. There have been some "popular"
books whose research provenance I'm unsure of (Salma Hassan's "The Emperor's
Table", and Joyce Westrip's "Moghul Cooking: India's Courtly
Cuisine") that I'm in the process of reading, if not ultimately using them
as source material.
Hassan states upfront that she has added spices (particularly, I would
imagine to earlier) dishes, "for palatability to modern palates", and my
thought there is to cross-reference with Ain i Akbari as to what might have
been plausible in period and what probably wasn't.
I haven't gotten Westrip's book yet, so I can't comment there.
Of course, with the Ain i Akbari giving no cooking methods, and merely
ingredient lists, I'm stuck in the realms of speculation there, and would
welcome any advice/resources.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:40:45 -0600
From: Nazirah Garrison <nazirah.garrison at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period Indian food
And in a case of several shades of disappointing, everything that was in
Husain's book that I could cross reference with the Ain-i-Akbari appears to
have been "adapted" so that the flavor profile is pretty much modern
"Northern India and Pakistan". The cooking techniques might still be
useful, but I'm rather disappointed with the adaptations themselves. :(
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:55:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period Indian food
Nazirah Garrison wrote:
<<< And in a case of several shades of disappointing, everything that was in
Husain's book that I could cross reference with the Ain-i-Akbari appears to
have been "adapted" so that the flavor profile is pretty much modern
"Northern India and Pakistan". The cooking techniques might still be
useful, but I'm rather disappointed with the adaptations themselves. :( >>>
I had to look back thru the digests to see which book you were talking about. And, yes, The Emperor's Table, has adaptations. I'm not near my library at the moment so i don't recall if it has any original recipes in translation.
HOWEVER, Husain wrote another book, which i have. Here's what i wrote about it for my website:
Nuskha-e-Shahjahani : Pulaos from the Royal Kitchen of Shah Jahan
translated by Salma Husain
Rupa & Co.: New Delhi, 2004
ISBN 81-7167-989-7
Shah Jahan ruled from 1628-1658, so if it is from his reign, it is slightly out of period for the SCA. Unfortunately, the author gives only a scantily historical introduction, one that raises more questions than it answers, in which she never mentions the provenance or even date of the actual manuscript, although she does state that it is written in Persian. Her book includes merely a selection from the cookbook, only 70 rice-based savory and sweet recipes. She chose only pulaos, quboolis, and kichdis - which are all what we modern folks would consider "main dishes". No purely vegetable or fruit recipes and only a couple rice based "desserts" (one which interestingly was known in 15th & 16th c. Persia, possibly earlier, and shows up in late 15th C. and 16th C. Ottoman feasts)
Since that time, I have managed to track down references to the manuscript she used. It IS from Shah Jahan's reign, so 2nd quarter of the 17th c., a but later than 1600, the last year of the 16th c.
It is mentioned in Charles Ambrose Storey (1888-1968), "Persian Literature. A Bio-Bibliographical Survey", 11 / 3, London, 1977. That book lists thirty entries on cookbooks in the Persian language, of which most come from India and concern Indian cuisine that came from the Mughal period.
Nosha-ye (or Nuskha-e) Shah-Jahani, written during the reign of Mughal Emperor Shah-Jahan (1628-1657) (Storey 11 / 3, p. 393, No. 661/22), documents the Indian royal kitchen of what is now called the North Indian Mughal cuisine, in which Iranian models and roots in the Safavid era were still clearly visible. This information is from the Encyclopedia Iranica on-line
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/storey-charles-ambrose
When searching for Husain's Nuskha, I found a comments section in which modern Indians discussed some of these recipes (sorry, didn't save the URL from 10 years ago). I had felt they were too modern. But many Indians commented on how odd the measurements were and how unfamiliar with details of the cooking techniques were.
I am certain these are actual early 17th c. Indian recipes. If only the whole manuscript were translated!!!
I also found this article in Outlook India from 2001 about another translation Husain worked on.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article/durbar-entrees/213443
It includes some recipes, but again, adapted, and since the originals are not included, i don't know how much.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article/royal-recipes/213444
Do try to find Nuskha-e-Shahjahani. I ordered it from India, but that was about 8 years ago. I highly recommend using
to locate new and used books from foreign dealers. It's a meta-search engine of booksellers from all over the world.
ADDED: Never mind, it's listed from $300 to $1500 !!!
I did find some Indian book vendors who seem to be selling it:
Here it's $7.40
https://www.bookshopofindia.com/search.asp?action1=default&bookid=65590
And here it's $5.05
http://bookpecker.com/index.php?main_page=product_book_info&;products_id=11590
I'd recommend contacting them and if they still have copies, order it ASAP!
Urtatim
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:29:24 -0600
From: Nazirah Garrison <nazirah.garrison at gmail.com>
To: lilinah at earthlink.net, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period Indian food
Thank you for that information -- and the links to the book! I've put in
an ILL request for the Nushka, as the Indian vendors will probably take a
while to respond to email at this time! :)
The Emperor's Table, at least with respect to recipes from the Ain i
Akbari, seems to be heavily adapted; spice proportions, blends, and
techniques seem very similar to the Gujarati Muslim techniques I learned
from my grandmother (not that that's an indication of anything but modern
technique!), which, together with a comparison of ingredient lists, is what
leads me to this conclusion. I almost feel like doing an in-depth analysis
between the Ain-i-Akbari recipes, the ones in Emperor's table and modern
recipes that don't claim to be anything but!
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:03:24 -0400
From: Sam Wallace <guillaumedep at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another Indian Cookbook
<<< I found another interesting book on the Exotic India site:
Ksemakutuhalam.... I will provide a review when I get my hands on it.
Guillaume >>>
My copy of Ksemakutuhalam arrived. It is quite a large volume: 446 pages
plus appendix, intro, bibliography, etc. It has the bibliography right up
front, which saved me from having to dig for it. I already like this book!
It is a bit overwhelming in scope, ranging from medical theory, to food
preparation, to proper after dinner behavior. There seem to be plenty of
usable recipes, though some are a bit vague. I also noticed several cross
references between them.
Rather than going into detail, let me summarize by saying this is an
encyclopedic work of cookery and related material. The table of contents is
32 pages in length. I have already started marking dishes to try. I
recommend this as a good purchase if you are at all interested in 16th
century India cuisine.
I will see if I can type up the bibliography and perhaps add some detail to
this admittedly hasty review.
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 11:44:56 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anything going on ?
On 8/25/16 8:42 AM, Nazirah Garrison wrote:
<<< I'm girding loins and gathering strength for the documented Mughal feast
I'm doing in December. To say I'm a little nervous is an understatement! >>>
/Ain i Akbari /and the /Nimatnama/? Or do you have other sources?
The /Nimatnama/ is not actually Mughal, but it's only a little earlier
than the Mughals, so plausibly the same cuisine.
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:24:11 -0500
From: Nazirah Garrison <nazirah.garrison at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anything going on ?
Those are indeed what I'm using, at least as primary sources. There's a
couple of secondary sources that I can't remember off the top of my head
(and I'm not home right now to check names), but I know that at least one
of them is less rigorous than I'd like!
Sara
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 20:37:39 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mughal Feast
I assume you've tried working from the /Ain i Akbari/. Figuring out what
the recipes are, with an ingredient list but no instructions, is a pain.
Have you tried combining it with the /Nimatnama/, finding in the latter
dishes in the former, thus giving you a recipe plus ingredient
quantities? I haven't, don't know if it would work.
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 07:55:01 -0500
From: Nazirah Garrison <nazirah.garrison at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mughal Feast
Yeah, my first line of attack has been the /Ain i Akbari/ ingredients
lists, and figuring out recipes based on what I know of period cooking
techniques in the region, and resorting, when needed, to modern
"traditional" techniques. Everything I have right now is "plausibly period"
with justifications. I never thought to combine it with the /Nimatnama/
recipes, but that seems like it should be the logical next step.
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 12:06:32 -0400
From: "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mughal Feast
The Nimatnama is roughly 100 years earlier than the Ain I Akbari. The Delhi
court in which the Nimatnama was written produced a different fusion cuisine
than the later Mughals- the Nimatnama was written after a much lengthier
time of cultural mixing, plus both the Muslims came from a different place
with a different "home" cuisine, and the regions of India are different with
their own cuisines too. Mughal cuisine survived mostly in Rajasthan around
Delhi, while the dishes from the Nimatnama can be found in their evolved
forms in Gujarat and Maharashtra- and Afghanistan, weirdly enough.
I love the Nimatnama manuscript- I've done one feast out of it and I'm
hopefully doing another this winter. There are hundreds of dishes and even
more importantly, detailed descriptions of *how the cuisine works*. I'm
testing an outdoor kitchen idea this weekend based directly on the paintings
of the Nimatnama.
If you really need more dishes to finish your feast than can be found in the
Ain-I-Akbari, I personally would look to mid-to-late 16th century Persian
cuisine to round out a Mughal feast.
Madhavi
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 12:32:42 -0500
From: Nazirah Garrison <nazirah.garrison at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mughal Feast
The "evolved" Nimatnama stuff is things I'm familiar with due to a Gujarati
Muslim heritage! :) I had noticed a lot of similarities. I've noticed
similarities between the Ain i Akbari stuff and a lot of Persian stuff, and
I understand the relationship there.
I think my biggest issue in rounding out the Mughal feast really is "how to
put the ingredients together", and to a lesser extent, divorcing the dishes
named in the Ain i Akbari from my own cultural "this is what this is" bias.
There's plenty enough within the Ain i Akbari to do a lot, imo.
I'm thinking research and piecing everything together is in order!
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 00:16:57 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mughal Feast
Should you be interested, there is a description of a feast given by Asaph
Khan for Ambassador Thomas Roe in 1617 to be found in Edward Terry's A
Voyage to East-India. The description contains the first reference to
potatoes in India. There is some academic argument as to whether these were
yams or sweet potatoes. I tend to think Terry knew what he was talking
about and that he was referring to a dark red sweet potato that is grown on
the Deccan Plateau.
Bear
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 11:39:48 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 15th century mughal recipes
Pity, they failed to identify Norah M. Titley's book so it could be searched for.
Johnnae
On Nov 25, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Gretchen R Beck <cmupythia at cmu.edu> wrote:
<<< This came across my facebook feed -- sorry if this is a duplicate.
Toodles, Margaret >>>
From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:
Michelle Brewer
9/30/17
Where should I start looking for in period Indian recipes and sources?
Andi Houston
*cracks knuckles*
Start with A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food by KT Achaya & The Nimatnama of the Sultan of Mandu, translated by Norah Titley. Then the Ain-i-Akbari (16th century Mughal) and Manasollasa (12th century Chalukyan) so get a sense of the difference between the Hindu and the Persian & Turco-Mongol food traditions. Then there are a couple more primary texts that are weirder and less Western-friendly. There are a few tertiary sources I recommend other than the dictionary above- The Historical Companion by Achaya, Food Culture in India and Feasts and Fasts by Colleen Taylor Sen. Curry: A Tale of Cooks and Conquerors is pretty good but much os post-period and use with caution.
Andi Houston
Uh, I am known as Mistress Madhavi of Jaisalmer, resident of Trimaris. I cook. A bit.
From: Sam Wallace <guillaumedep at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Nuskha-e-Shajahani
Date: December 15, 2018 at 6:58:52 PM CST
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Nuskha-e-Shajahani - Pulaos from the Royals Kitchen of Shah Jahan Salma Husain, trans.
The original comes from a time a bit after the SCA's period of interest and from what is today modern India. This modern rendition contains only the pulao recipes from the original. Further, they have been rendered in a modern format, though they retain many of the original cookery terms and
measurements. There is a glossary toward the beginning of the work giving explanations of each, though the section on measurements is inconsistent.
Having said that, the explanation of cooking techniques was well done.
Unfortunately, the original text is not given, neither in transcription or translation. I would very much like to have a translation of the whole work, but this at least provides some access to it. My overall impression of the work is that it could have used some good editing. Besides the issue with the measurements, there were things like the names of similar recipes being given in the form of "Recipe Name ~1" followed by "Recipe Name-II".
This is very much a specialist book with a very definite focus. I recommend it for those who are interested in Mughal or historical Indian cooking and for those who are really into rice dishes.
<the end>