fd-Germany-msg - 1/19/08 Medieval and Period German food. Cookbook sources. Recipes. References. NOTE: See also the files: Germany-msg, pickled-foods-msg, turnips-msg, vinegar-msg, vegetables-msg, beer-msg, root-veg-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Tom Brady <tabrady at mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 08:48:24 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Questions >One reference he made in the first chapter caught my eye. He says that >the first cookbook printed on a printing press was Kuchenmeisterey >(Cooking Mastery) printed in Nuremberg in 1485 and that 56 editions of >this book were printed. Has anyone heard of it? Is it available in >English Translation? Here's what I was able to find in the Library of Congress records: Title: Kuchenmeysterey / in Abbildung herausgegeben von Rolf Ehnert. Published: G=E8oppingen : K=E8ummerle, 1981. Description: 65, x p. ; 21 cm. Series: Litterae ; Nr. 71 LC Call No.: TX721 .K934 1981 Dewey No.: 641.5943 19 ISBN: 3874524760 Notes: Photoreproduction of original published: Passau : Printed by Johann Petri, 1486? Now owned by Bayerische Staatsbibliothek M=E8unchen (4o Inc. s.a. 161a/3) Bibliography: p. x. Subjects: Cookery, German -- Early works to 1800. Other authors: Ehnert, Rolf. Petri, Johannes, 1441-1511. Other titles: K=E8uchenmeisterei. Series Entry: Litterae (K=E8ummerle Verlag) ; Nr. 71. Control No.: 81188708=20 Nothing about a translation there, but that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. Hope this helps a little, Duncan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Brady tabrady at mindspring.com SCA: Duncan MacKinnon of Tobermory Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:23:43 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Ein/Das Buoch Von Guter Spise I've been advised by Mistress Caterina Sichlingen Von Nurnberg that her translation of Ein Buoch Von Guter Spise is available on the Web at the following URL: http://cs-www.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/workroom.html German 14th-century cookbooks, get 'em while they're 'ot, they're lovely...fox nipple chips, otter's noses... Seriously, though, there is also some additional stuff that will be of interest, like various works in progress. Have fun! Adamantius Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:47:38 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - SC-German food in period What constitutes Medieval German cooking is difficult to say. There would be differences depending on what foodstuffs were generally available in a region. The northern region would use more fish, while the southern region would use more meat, etc. Were I really pushed, I might also say: "Cherries, apples, hazelnuts, cinnamon, nutmeg, sweet dishes, sour dishes." Charlemange incorporated the German states into the Carolingian Empire around 800 C.E. and they became part of the Holy Roman Empire when it was officially recognized in 962. The HRE officially died in 1806, but it was effectively dead by the mid-16th Century. So German cooking would probably have been heavily influenced by early French cooking. I posted a couple of translations here a short while back which would give you an idea of the foods available around 800-900. For later recipes, you might try Das Buch von Guter Speise, a translation of which is available on the Web and in paper, This dates from about 1354. Other possible sources (which I do not have copies of dang it): 1400 Manuscript DII30 at the University of Basel (there is a published thesis of about 40 copies) 1485 Kuchenmeisterei (The Mastery of the Kitchen) 1553 Das Kochbuch der Sabrina Welserin 1581 Das Neu Kockbuch (I think this is part of Cariadoc's translation project) (Rumpolt) 1603 Speisebuchlein: Darrinnen Kurtzer Vnterricht von allerley Speise vnd Trank so zur Menchlichen Nahrung dienlich... (Hubner) 1609 Ein Schon kunstlich Kochbuchlein von Vielen vnd manchen Richten (original currently in the Passau Glasmuseum) 1719 Neues Saltzburgisches Koch-buch It's not much help, but it's what I've got. Bear Subject: German cookbook Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:50:28 -0500 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) To: stefan at texas.net >Is this just translations or redactions, too? How much for the book? >How is it bound? How many pages? Is it the complete Das Kochbuch der >Sabina Welserin? How can people reach you to order it? Just some of the >questions that I imagine people are going to ask. Translations only, no redactions, of 205 recipes in Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. It is the complete cookbook. It's forty pages spiral bound for $16. I can be reached at: Valoise Armstrong P.O. Box 2492 Little Rock, Arkansas 72203 vjarmstrong at aristotle.net I am on the sca-cooks list and sca-arts list, but I wasn't sure if it would be polite to post there about commercial projects (even on a tiny scale like this). Valoise Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:41:17 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - German anyone? Here is another site you might find useful. http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm Ras Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:53:26 -0500 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - German anyone? Bear wrote: >>Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin is available in translation, but I don't >>have the information. The English translation is mine and I have a couple of copies left, e-mail me if you're interested. I am planning on offering it to Cariadoc for his published cookbook collection after that as the pace of my mundane life is rapidly increasing. As far as I know, Sabina Welser and Ein Buch von Guter Speise are the only two German texts that have been translated into English. If you have access to a university library for interlibrary loan you might down Thomas Gloning's bibliography at http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm This is the most comprehensive list of material that I've found on German cooking and drink and although Gloning's rannge of dates extends outside SCA time it's still useful. Unfortunately most of these sources are in German and many are unavailable in the US or are pretty rare. Several people have mentioned Gloning's home page: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm This has the complete text of Ein alemannisches Buechlein vonn guter Spise and a portion of a Rheinfrankisches Kochbuch (neither one in English) as well as a few redactions that I think are in English (I think - it's been a while since I looked). Valoise Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:29:31 +0200 (CET) From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: Re: SC - German Anyone? "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (1445)" I have just been editing the German cookery book from the Ms. germ. fol. 244 (now in Berlin) from about 1445, the "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch". It has been published, together with a facsimile, a transcription, translation (to new High German), notes, glossary and an article by Trude Ehlert (from "Das Kochbuch des Mittelalters"). It can be obtained by Ludwig Auer in Donauwoerth. For further information see my homepage: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm There is also a bibliography, which contains many studies and sources: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm (but it is long) Thomas Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:41:46 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - German anyone? Armstrong, Valoise. Sabina Welser's Cookbook. Translated from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553). Privately published, Little Rock, AR, 1998. English translations only, no originals, no redactions. Frau Welserin's own collection of recipies. Valoise should be on this list. Her book is available for sale. If she doesn't post you, let me know and I'll find her address. She hasn't redacted the recipies, and as I recently bought it, I haven't either--yet! Fahrenkamp, H. Jurgen. Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Krafften halt. (in German). Prisma Verlag. Munchen or Gutersloh, 1986. ISBN 3 570 09730 7 Sources and originals not given, occasionally mentioned. Modern German redactions. Eleonora Maria Rosalia. Freiwillig aufgesprungner Granat-Apffel. Hausmettel and kochrezepte von 1709. (taken from a hand-written recipe book of the 16th C.) (in Gerrman). Working on translation. I've got the above two books. Love to cook German food, glad to help if I can. I also have some modern German cookbooks in English, and some in German, to which we can refer if something absolutely stumps us. Sometimes, 'reverse engineering' helps a little. Allison Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:42:37 -0500 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut Ras wrote: >Cool! Could you write down and send the SPECIFIC reference (pub., pg. etc.). >I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of course, but >it WILL be there. Roeck, Bernd. Baecker, Brot und Getreide in Augsburg. Sigmaringen: Jan Thorbecke Verlag, 1987. It's probably out of print, but I got it fairly easily through interlibrary loan. I didn't save the ISBN, just photocopied what I needed. It's not as interesting as it sounds at first - the subtitle translates to something like - The history of the baking trade and the politics of supply in the Imperial city at the time of the Thirty Year's War_. But mixed in with the out of period and political stuff are some nice tidbits, like the food budget for an orphange in 1572 and speculation from period sources on what the working class ate and spent on food. There's also an appendix that giving the Augsburg municipal baking laws from 1606. It's cultural history, academic and in German, but there are some SCA applicable parts. Valoise Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:46:39 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - carp and lebkuchen I was looking up some info on the lebkuchen in some of my German referances, and noticed the statement that carp is traditionally cooked in Germany on Christmas Eve, as it goes back to the monks' ponds. Evidently, they kept carp as a staple. The fattening of the Christmas carp might begin as early as August. So, as soon as we're home from Pennsic, we rush out and feed the fish!!! They didn't say what was used to fatten the carp, or what monks used in place of cardboard boxes of fish flakes. My German family has a herring salad, with beets, for Christmas eve and other special family events, but I think that comes from the great-grandfather who was a trader based in Riga, Russia. Which brings us back to lebkuchen. These spice cakes/cookies were developed from a happy mixture of the Franconian honey trade and the Pfeffersa"cke, the 'peppersacks' as Nure"mberg's prosperous medieval merchant adventurers were called. "Commercial gingerbread was baked by the members of an exclusive guild, known as Lebku"chler." Scharfenberg, Horst. _The Cuisines of Germany_, Simon & Schuster, Inc., 1989. Definately prepared for the modern USA market, but good food and sometimes interesting info. (The quotation marks in German words are attempting to be umlauts) Allison, who is not a spoon tease, I don't have the herring salad recipe. It's SECRET and I don't remember because I only helped with it once, 13 years ago. There's green stuff, and chopped pickled beets, and chopped, cooked herring, and chopped, pickled gherkins and more stuff. Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:29:02 -0500 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Sabina Welser's Cookbook >At Pennsic, I picked up a cookbook titled Sabina Welser's Cookbook >translated from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553) by Valoise >Armstrong. Does anyone know anything about the german source for this >cookbook? Are the recipes truly all from the mid-1500s? >Unfortunately, this is only the English translation and does not include >the original german. According to Hugo Stopp who edited the hand-written manuscript for publication the majority of the book appears to be written in one handwriting style, that of Sabina Welserin. Unfortunately there were several women in the Welser family with that name in the 16th C. but the likeliest suspects died in either 1576 or 1599. Stopp also says that additions were made by a second person, but he describes the second handwriting as being a distinctly 16th C. style. So, yes, the recipes date from the 16th C. >The reason I ask is this cookbook is unsual in several regards. A number >of the recipes give amounts. There are several pastry recipes (standing >pies, dumplings and tarts). Since these are unusual offerings in the >English, French and Italian books I have studied I wondered if this >cookbook was entirely from the mid-1500's or maybe contained later >recipes as well. The recipes are sometimes more detailed than earlier cookbooks, but this might have more to do with the time period than the location. Most of the English and Frennch medieval cookbooks that are readily available are definitely earlier than this. But look at Knelme Digby and Hugh Plat's Delightes for Ladies - their instructions are much more detailed than earlier English recipes. If anyone's interested Hugo Stopp's transcription along with a translation into modern German shouldn't be too hard to get through interlibrary loan. Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin. Heidelberg: Carl Winter Univeritaetsverlag, 1980. ISBN 3-533-02905-0 Valoise Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:19:50 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: SC - Sabrina Welserin Webbed I have just added Valoise Armstrong's translation of Sabrina Welserin to my web page; you can find it at: http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html David Friedman Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:12:58 +0100 (CET) From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - bibliographies I have put a _slightly_ enlarged version of cookbib.htm on my website. In addition, I extracted from this file all the German sources and put them in a chronological order, beginning with the many editions and facsimiles of the "Buoch von guoter spise". You can find these lists at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/cookbib.htm and http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/germcook.htm As always: additions and suggestions are extremely wellcome. Thomas *** Dr. Thomas Gloning Germanistik, Universitaet Giessen http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 New edition of 15th century cookery book: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm Subject: Re: ANST - Medieval Food, clothing, tents and German armor Date: Fri, 06 Nov 98 06:52:59 MST From: RAISYA at aol.com To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG Two of the lists are 14th century. None of the lists are specifically 12th century, but the 9th century Charlemagne list would almost certainly have been available to a 12th century German, and certainly had a major influence on what was grown. I'd also recommend this site, with the earliest known German language cookbook: Ein Buch von guter spise (c. 1345 to 1354) http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/Buch/buch.html The earliest German garden book (or health manual, unclear which) I have tracked down is HORTUS SANITATIS (or possibly called GART DER GESUNDHEIT), Peter Schoeffer, Mainz, 1485. However, the title and a few of the woodcuts are all I've found so far. Raisya Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:33:48 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Altbayrische Kochrezepte ( XV./XVI. cent.) For those interested in German cookery recipes: you can find the text of "Alte Kochrezepte aus dem bayrischen Inntal" (15th/16th century; ed. Danner) on my website: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kb-dann.htm or via: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 then chose ETEXTE or ALTE KOCHBUECHER in the left frame, then search for the DANNER-entry in the right frame. Remember that around 1500 most German texts are written in some sort of dialect... Thomas ************ Dr. Thomas Gloning, JLU Giessen http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (15. Jh.): http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rfk.htm Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:38:59 -0800 From: Maryann Olson <maryann.olson at csun.edu> Subject: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long) At 05:15 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Elizabeth/Betty Cook wrote: >Gertraud (Maryann Olson) asks: >... >>2) I am wondering what herbs and spices would have been used by different >>personas in a meat pie for instance, that would tell others that they were >>English, or German, or Italian, or whatever. Being a German persona, I want >>to be able to make something that is truly "German." However, if I were to >>choose to do "Italian," I would want to be true to that culture. > >French and English upper-class tend to be very similar, at least around >14th-15th c. or so; given the history, that isn't surprising. Italian of >the same period, judging by Platina, is similar but has some noticable >differences; for example, he likes the combination mint-marjoram-parsley >which I don't remember seeing in the English/French cuisine. I don't know >German well enough to comment, but I expect other people on this list do. > >Elizabeth/Betty Cook Greetings, unto thee, Elizabeth, and blessings upon thee for thy kind words and encouragement. I went home and pulled together my very rough notes from Guter Spise and Sabrina Welserin, as well as a modern cookbook. What follows is very rough and has not been double-checked. Please forgive me for any errors -- and, please, anyone who finds errors, be sure to tell me what they are so I can correct them. German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients 1345- Name 1354 1553 Modern Notes Noted: Food is rarely highly seasoned in Germany. (Ref. 1, p. xxii) Almonds X X X Almond Milk X X X Sweet Almond Oil X Anise X X X Apples X X X Basil Used in Bavaria; however, pepper is not used when basil is.(1) Bay Leaves X Borage X Caraway X X Caraway Seeds X X Cardamom X Carrots X X Chard X Cheese X Parmesan X Cherries X X X Sour & Sweet X X X Cinnamon X X Cloves X X X Cornflowers X Costmary X Datesd X Dill X Eggs X X Elacampine X Elderflowers X Figs X Fresh Herbs X Galingale X Garlic X Used sparingly, mainly in the eastern regions. The rest of Germany may use it with mutton and lamb and in sausages and salamis. (1) Ginger X Ginger Root X X X Grapes X X X Grape Leaves X Ground Ivy X Hops X Hyssop X Juniper Berries X Used in Swabia; otherwise used in game dishes all over Germany (1) Kohlrabi X Lavender X Leeks X X Lemons X X Lettuce X Limes X X Preserved Limes X Lovage X Mace X X X Marjoram X Mainly in Bavaria (1) Mint X X Mushrooms - Chanterelle X Mustard X X X Nettles X Nutmeg X X Onions X X Oranges Bitter X Orange Peel X Paprika X Used in Bavaria and Prussia (1) Parsley X X X Pears/Preserves X X X Peas X X Pennyroyal X Pepper X X Pepper is used with restraint. White pepper is preferred because it is milder. (1) Peppercorns X Plums X X X Quinces X X Raisins/ Currants X X X Rosemary X Used with lamb and mutton almost exclusively (1) Saffron X X Sage X X X Salt X X Savory X Shallots X Spinach X Strawberries X X Tansy X Tarragon X Tartar X Thyme Used mostly in Bavaria and East Germany (1) Tragacanth X Pot Vegetables Carrot, parsley root, parsnip, Root Vegetables leek, celeriac, onion, sometimes white turnip Turnip is root vegetable most often eliminated, because it is too strong. (1) Soup Greens Parsley, celery leaves, with dill added after cooking is finished (1) Capon X Chicken X X X w/out bacon X Goose X X X Goose blood X Goose feet X Goose wings X Goose stomach X Goose neck X Goose liver X Quail X Small Birds X Small wild Birds X Bacon X X X Beef X X Beef Marrow X Boar's Head X Calf Liver X X X Hare X X Hare Blood X Lamb X X X Lamb liver X X Lamb caul X X Pork X X X Pork liver X X X Pork lungs X X Veal X X Venison/Deer X X X Wild Game X X Tongue X X Brain X X X Kidney Suet X Bream X Carp X Cod/Dried X Crayfish X Eel X X Fish X X X Lamprey X Oysters X Pike X X Selbingen X Trout X Fats Pork lard, bacon, butter. In northern Germany and Swabia, rendered chicken, goose, and duck fats are also used. (1) Olive Oil X Seldom used; considered exotic (1) Butter X X Cream X X Milk X X Goat Milk X Honey X X Sugar X X X Rose Sugar X Rose Water X X X Wine X X Verjuice X Vinegar Unless otherwise stated, white vinegar is used. (1) Millet Groats X Flour X X Rye Flour X X Bread Crumbs X X Semmel X X Rye Bread X X Rice X X X Ashes X Caustic Lime X Hartshorn X Isinglass X 1345-1354: Daz Buoch von Guter Spise, the Household Manual of Michael de Leone, proto-notary to the Archbishop of Wuerzburg, translated by Alia Atlas 1553: Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think, but I can't find confirmation in my copy) (1) Mimi Sheraton, The German Cookbook, "The German Kitchen" Compiling this table made me aware of how rough the work is and in need of being double-checked. Gertraud Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:28:36 -0800 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long) Gertraud (Maryann Olson) wrote: >1553: Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think, >but I can't find confirmation in my copy) No, actually that translation is mine. There is a really good chart on German medieval and renaissance spices, taken from 7 books ranging from 1350-1581, at: http://www.silk.net/sirene/medgerm.htm Valoise Adalhaid von Metz (Valoise Armstrong) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:33:46 -0800 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: SC - German cookbook list A day off of work and I decided to do a little web searching. I wanted to check out the new Altbayrische Kochrezepte that Thomas Gloning had posted. Great stuff! Another book for my collection. I found out that he has also added a VERY lengthy list of German cookbooks, arranged chronologically, to his web page. Absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately many of these are going to be impossible to find, or at least very difficult, for those of us in the wester hemisphere. But this is a really nice list. Valoise Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:59:09 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long) Valoise Armstrong wrote: > Gertraud (Maryann Olson) wrote: > >1553: Sabrina Welserin (also translated on-line by Alia Atlas, I think, > >but I can't find confirmation in my copy) > > No, actually that translation is mine. > > There is a really good chart on German medieval and renaissance spices, > taken from 7 books ranging from 1350-1581, at: > http://www.silk.net/sirene/medgerm.htm > > Valoise Adalhaid von Metz > (Valoise Armstrong) FWIW, I'm fairly certain Caterina Sichlingen Von Nurnburg (Alia Atlas) has been working on a translation of Sabina Welserin for some time now, with several other German sources more or less simultaneously, and the possibility does exist that some of her work on the source is available on the Web. It's hard to say, in this instance, which version Gertraud was looking at, at least from what I saw mentioned on the cooks' list. Caterina's material on the Web has been moving around from site to site, and doesn't seem to stay at one URL for very long, so it can be hard to find, which might make Valoise's translation a more likely candidate. Adamantius Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:08:52 -0800 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - SC German Herbs, Spices, and Ingredients (long) >Sabrina Welserin. Do you know which area of >Germany she came from? Since German cooking has regional differences today, >I suspect it had them in period also. The Welser family was prominent in Augsburg, that's in Swabia, a southern part of Germany near Bavaria. It's hard to say anything definite about differences in German cookbooks from different regions without more evidence. Most of what I've seen is from southern Germany, including two from the same family (the Welsers). It's hard compare cookbooks from different centuries and say whether the differences were due more to the time in which they were written or where the author lived. All I can say is that I need more cookbooks and more time to study them. Valoise Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:57:45 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Marx Rumpolt (1581) -- soup recipes You can find the soup recipes from the cookbook of Marx Rumpolt (1581) via: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/kobu.htm or at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/rumpsupp.htm The language of the recipes is Early New High German. Thomas PS.: There is an announcment of a new edition of three 15th century German cookery books, now in the "Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek" in Vienna. As far as I am aware, the book is to appear end of april: Doris Aichholzer: 'Willdu machen ayn guet essen...' Drei mittelhochdeutsche Kochbcher: Erstedition, bersetzung, Kommentar, (Wiener Arbeiten zur Germanischen Altertumskunde und Philologie Bd. 35), Bern, Berlin, Frankfurt/M., New York, Paris, Wien 1999, ca. 450 S. Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:32:56 -0700 (MST) From: grasse at mscd.edu Subject: SC - Marx Rumpolt also I was thrilled when I received a copy of Marx Rumpolt (the mid 70'sfacsimile) as a gift. I have used some of the recipes in an A&S entry, and have webbed my entry documentation - including original recipe, translation, and redaction, along with pictures. I plan to post other recipes from this wonderful (late period) source, as well as other entries and things I have done. The web site started as a homework assignment in my web-pagedesign course. Feedback (preferably constructive - I'm still new at this web thing) would be welcomed.http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/Welcome.html The Rumpolt recipes are "Selections from a German Meal ca 1581"Gwen-CatCaerthe Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:50:26 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - German potato soup recipe??? > Well, this is interesting. Has anyone seen a copy of the Anna Weckerin > cookbook? I believe she was the widow of a doctor and it's supposed to > also> have a lot of medical advice. It wasn't, by the way, the first cookbook > written by a woman, but I believe it was the first published German > cookbook written by a woman. Anyone know of a reprint edition of this > book? > I've never been able to find one. > > Valoise There is a translation of Weckerin by Regina and John Bendix, but I don't think it is published. I came across a reference to it in an acknowledgement by Janet Theophano, an Associate Director of the College of General Studies, University of Pennsylvania.the information was part of an exhibition website for the Aresty Collection of Rare Books in the Culinary Arts, Dept. of Special Collections, Van Pelt Library, University of Pennsylvania. This is the same Aresty who authored The Delectable Past. If you want to check out the website, the URL is:http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/gallery/aresty/aresty1.htmlBear Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:11:37 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Re: Anna Weckerin Anna Weckerin was the widow of Johann Jacob Wecker, a medical doctor in Basel and Colmar, who wrote widely on dietetics, wines etc. and who translated the "Kunstbuch" of Alexius Pedemontanus. >> Anyone know of a reprint edition of this book? There was a limited facsimile-edition of the Weckerin cookbook in 1977: Ein Koestlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen/ an Gemuesen/ Obs/ Fleisch/ Gefluegel/ (...) durch F. Anna Weckerin/ Weyland Herrn D. Johann Jacob Weckers (...) nachgelassene Wittib. Amberg 1598. Vol. 1: Facsimile. Vol. 2 (a small booklet): "Kommentar von Julius Arndt". Mnchen 1977. There were printed 1000 copies. Now and then an antiquarian copy shows up. Here is a funny recipe for "shavings" or "chippings" made from almonds: "Hobelspa:en. BEreit klein gestossene Mandeln mit Zucker vnnd Rosenwasser/ streich es auff Oflatten du:enn/ schneid es darnach mit einer scheer zu langen schmalen riemlein auff eine stu:ertz/ bach es inn der pastetenpfann oder bachofen/ so kru:emmen sie sich/ sind auch scho:en vnnd gut/ sie sollen weiss bleiben." (p. 64). (a:e = e above a ~ a with Umlaut; etc.) Anybody willing to transcribe this <font size="128">most important</font> text? Thomasius Tuwingensis Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:20:41 -0700 (MST) From: grasse at mscd.edu Subject: SC - re: Marx Rumpolt was re: 16th century potato soup recipe? Thomas Gloning wrote: [BTW, I am beginning to transcribe Rumpolt, and maybe in some months or years we can search this text. Anybody working on the same project, please drop me a line.]While I can not claim such wonderful credentials as your own (as seen on your web site - wow) I am a native speaker and a cook, and have been cooking in the SCA since 1992. I received a copy (IIRC the 1976 facsimile reprint out of Leipzig) of Ein New Kochbuch in December. Since then I have spent a little time reading, transliterating, translating, and redacting from that source. I have webbed part of what I have translated at http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GKContents1.htm (look at Selections from a German Meal)and am working on more. If anyone is looking for a specific type of recipe I will (as time permits) look through Rumpolt's work to see if I spot anything related, and will transliterate, translate, and post. I have very much enjoyed your web pages, and your transliteration of the soup recipes. Gwen Cat von Berlin Caerthe Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:03:26 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Translation (was: Pennsic Cookery Class Suggestions) Thanks, Lord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase, for stressing the importance of accurate translation. Of course, the process of "redaction" seems more important and requires an experienced cook, but if the translation is not accurate, the redaction will in any case not be the redaction of that historical recipe. Alas, we cannot assume that within 500 years meanings have not changed drastically. They often have. Therefore, we must not use modern dictionaries for our translations, but dictionaries that cover the usage of say 15th and 16th century texts. Here is a historical German dictionary in one volume that might be helpful for someone working with 15th and 16th century German recipes (most German culinary sources are 15th century onwards): Christa Baufeld: Kleines fru"hneuhochdeutsches Wo"rterbuch. Lexik aus Dichtung und Fachliteratur des Fru"hneuhochdeutschen. Tu"bingen 1996. ISBN: 3-484-10268-3 (about 30 DM, ~ 15 or 20 $ or so; u" = u-Umlaut etc.). Thomas Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:16:13 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC -beef stew, was period fruit pastries > In regard to fruit in pastry, you are most likely to find that in the > German corpus, under 'pasteten'. Bear suggests 'kraphen', but that might > be a doughnut type thing, or even fried pie, depending on where and when. > Pasteten sometimes is fairly clearly a pie/tart, but may have been > individual, as well. Generally means 'pastry'. > > Allison Modern krapfen are Berliner's, deep fat fried jelly-filled doughnuts. Period krapfen are more eclectic having meat, fish and fruit fillings. The doughs are both leavened and unleavened. One set of instructions I've found bakes them in oil. I suspect (but can not prove) they are closer to a pasty than a doughnut. From the lack of instructions, you might even produce a covered tart (which I believe Alia Atlas did). I've recently started researching krapfen. As a spur to my research, I've offered to teach a hand's on class in krapfen making at the Ansteorran King's College, So I'll be experimenting during May. I'll post the handout after I get it worked up. Bear Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:27:08 -0500 From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com> Subject: Re: SC -krapfen, was (still sorta is) period fruit pastries, long The _Mittelhochdeutsches Taschenwoerterbuch_ lists: 2 meanings for krapfe. 1] swm,. md. krape [in italics] haken, , klammer; tuerangel; in der wappenkunde: sparren. (Valoise or Gwen-Cat will have to translate that exactly) 2] krapfe swm., krapfen; hode. krapfen swv. haken. Some of those words translate to modern English as closure or clasp, in my German/English dictionary. I don't have a problem with seeing a turnover as a result of this. My 1709 book that is the publication of a 16thC. manuscript lists recipes for kraffen under "All sorts of bake work". Some are baked in lard, they have fillings, or nuts stirred into the batter. The double ff is always present, sometimes p is also: kraffen, and krapffen. I think, that translating 'bake in grease/lard' to frying or deep-fat frying, is what is meant. Maybe. Sometimes. Comparing the English and German copies of _The Medieval Kitchen_ is interesting. Recipe 125, in English, is Marrow Fritters. In German, Krapfen mit Mark. in this case, the marrow is bone marrow, not a vegetable called a marrow. Recipe 129 is The Emperor's Fritters, and Kaiserkrapfen. Recipe 128 is for Fruit Patties, Fruechtepastetchen, Rissoles aux Fruits, but the phrase Kleine Krapfen is used. Plus more. So, the German translator of the French modern book uses the word krapfen to describe both fruit filled pastries--little rounds of dough with fruit filling inside, and fruit stirred into batter. The French authors would recognize Anne-Marie's krapfen, presumably. My modern German cook books don't use the term in the index, except for one on baking. THAT GIVES A RECIPE FOR (the books are holding down the shift key) Andalusische Krapfen. The beautiful picture has half-moon shaped pastries, covered with sesame seeds. The filling is 1 small onion, 150 g. chopped beef, salt, pepper, 1 teaspoon marjoram, 1-2 tablespoons olive oil, 1 tablespoon tomato ketchup, 10 pimento filled olives. The picture of the filling looks like rather dry Sloppy Joes with sliced olives. The filled pies/pastries/turnovers/krapfen are brushed with milk and egg yolk, salt and sesame seed. They are not deep fried, though. You put them in a greased baking pn and bake in a pre-heated oven 15-20 minutes at 220* C. Serve warm. This definately a savory and not a sweet. Other pictures and recipes use other terms--Oh Boy! Just found a glossary in one that I didn't know I had! Will have to check and see if all the words are in the glossary I sent Gwen-Cat and Valoise, except this is modern.--Added a few. buben - prune fritters are Schlosserbuben; have 2 recipes for this, prunes stuffed with almonds and dipped in batter, deep-fried. Probably Swabian. kuechel - fritter batter is Kuechelteig; apple fritters is Apfelkuechel (Using an e in place of the umlaut in ku [umlaut] chel). Also kuechlein (little kuechel) A deep-fried apple pastry pasteten - Koeniginpasteten are queen's pastry, or puff pastry patties. The vocabulary is probably a local thing, or tradition, or it's just changed over the years. Kuechelin also is Swabian. I'll have to check more regional recipes. Conclusion: Krapfen: A fritter or a small turnover type, that is either fried or baked, in lard. Regards, Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:45:53 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re:SC - krapen baked in oil The German word backen can mean to fry or to bake. This makes translating recipes rather interesting. Is this thing going to go in the oven or is it going to be fried? The phrase "baked in oil" would seem to mean to fry. If it's not clear, look at the context of the recipe. Valoise Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:11:06 -0600 (MDT) From: grasse at mscd.edu Subject: Re: SC - krapfen baked in oil Bear and Phlip, You wrote privately, but seeing the Krapfen thread has grown I guess I will post this to the whole crew. I speak only for MODERN recipes with the word Krapfen at this time... I went through my German cookgooks last night, and found 3 different entities being called Krapfen. Two of them are deep fat fried. "Place fat into a deep-fryer and fry for 8 minutes at 170 C, turning once half way through the cooking time, with a slotted spoon." (Yes in German this is called ausbacken or backen, but it is deep fat frying. The Viennese Backha:ndel is a wonderful deep fried chicken. The phrase Backen also refers to baking in an oven (I use oven baked to make the difference clear in this post.) I do not know how or when this came into being.) Of the two deep fried versions one uses a pate-choux (sorry, I doubt that is spelled right... in German the word is Brandteig) The liquids are brought to a boil, flour is added all at once, and eggs beating in (one at a time) till a ball forms. This is dropped by spoonfuls into the oil. (this same type of dough can oven baked to make eclairs and creampuffs.) The second deep fried version is a yeast raised dough (like is used for Berliner Pfannkuchen -Jelly doughnuts). The dough is made, raised for 20 minutes, rolled out, cut into rounds, filled with jelly (this book claims Apricot jelly for southern Germany, and strawberry for northern (like Berlin), let rise another 15 minutes, and then deep fried in lard at 180C for 3 minutes covered, then turned and fried 3 minutes uncovered. The third version of Krapfen seems to be a savory pastie type (with a meat, mushroom, and curry filling). The dough is a flour, starch, salt, fat and cold water type. This version is oven baked for 20 minutes at "Gas level 4" or at 220C electric. And just to cloud the issue, the Krapfen mit Ka:se (cheese krapfen) are creampuff type pastry, BAKED for 25 minutes at 220 C, then filled with a piped (creamy) Rockford cheese filling. All these recipes are represented in the book "Menu: Backen von A-Z" by Mosaik Verlag (publishers), 1986 Munich. (this book lists a number of other nationalities Krapfens too, but they all fit in the 3 categories, just the specific ingredients or flavorings change I also checked "Spezialita:ten aus Grossmutters Zeit" which listed a yeast raised version in their section on Berlin... I paraphrase because I only brought the A-Z book to work with me... What in Berlin is called Berliner Pfannkuchen is the same as what in southern Germany is called Krapfen. I believe they filled their version with plum or Preisselbeer jelly. And I looked in the Dr. O:tker Baking Book I inherited from MY Grandmother. This lists "Fettkrapfen" - made with a Brandteig version that is then deep fat fried. Here is a bit more than zwei pfennige worth... What else may I do to be of service? Gwen-Cat Caerthe (PS, please put the F in Krapfen... the other spelling makes my mind do baaaaad things!) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:22:37 -0500 From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com> Subject: Re: SC - krapfen baked in oil >>And just to cloud the issue, the Krapfen mit Ka:se (cheese krapfen) are creampuff type pastry, BAKED for 25 minutes at 220 C, then filled with a piped (creamy) Rockford cheese filling.<< Typographical error, Gwen-Cat, meaning Roquefort as in blue-veined cheese, or somebody's specialty? The Andalusian krapfen I posted are the type 3 you mentioned. Wonder if this is typical for the savory krapffen, or just co-incidence? Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:03:37 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: SC - Re: German Food > Is there a reasonably reliable secondary, translated to English, with >redacted recipes - source that might be in print or available through >the library? It often seems when I do web searches that SCA folk's web >sites are among the best when looking for period stuff, are there any in >particular that might be helpful here? I believe I have 'En Guter Spice' >bookmarked, and I will check there. In addition to Ein Buch von guter spise there are these pages: German Feast Menus and Documentations This one has translations and redactions from several cookbooks for three feasts. Done by Mistress Caterina (Alia Atlas). http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/akatlas/Feasts/contents.html Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin My translation to this without redactions is at" http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html Thomas Gloning has portions of several cookbooks on his site and a few of them have been translated. http://www.uni-giessen/de/~g909/kobu.html 14th Century German Meal I haven't visited this site in a while, don't remember whose it is. There are redactions from Guter spise (I think that's where they're from.) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4756.germ1htm This might give you a good start. I don't have the url for Gwen Cat's page, but she also has some redactions. Valoise Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:35:25 -0400 From: "Kappler, MMC Richard A." <KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil> Subject: SC - German Cooking Mistress Christianna said: >I have been asked by a lady in our Barony about medieval German food. >She is getting married in October, and they are doing it up 15th Cent. >German. She is having it catered, and needs to be able to provide >recipies to a (hopefully) willing caterer, yet to be found. > Is there a reasonably reliable secondary, translated to English, with >redacted recipies - source that might be in print or available through >the library? <snip> GERMAN SPECIALTIES; A Culinary Journey Christine Metzger, Editor Covers the history of German cuisine in text and thousands of illustrations including the evolution of the art of cooking, and the origin, variety, production., and consumption of foods. Includes many recipes for complete meals. 1997: 680 pages, ca. 3,000 illustrations. Regards, Puck Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:18:45 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - FYI: German cookbooks: Rumpolt 1581 & Wecker 1598 FYI: there are currently two 'joint ventures' aiming to produce electronic texts of important German cookbooks: - -- Marx Rumpolt 1581: Martina Grasse - -- Anna Wecker 1598: Valoise Armstrong These projects are meant to provide a reliable edition of the original text, in the long run together with translations/redactions of parts of the text that are noteworthy in some respect. The most important and laborious part of the work is done by Martina Grasse and Valoise Armstrong, to whom I should like to thank publicly in the name of culinary historians and historians of language. If the readers of the SCA-list don't mind I (the proofreader and webmaster of the projects) will 'publish' the sections as we go along and post short notes about our progress now and then. Thomas Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:30:12 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Middle Low German Recipe + Translation: posteydenlevere / pie liver Here is an exercise in translating a Middle Low German recipe from Hans Wiswe's "Ein mittelniederdeutsches Kochbuch des 15. Jahrhunderts" (edited in: Braunschweigisches Jahrbuch, 1956). First, the recipe and a rough translation: ************************ 19. Wyltu maken eyne gude posteyden, so nym de levere van eyneme kalve edder van eyneme bucke unde vorwelle se up eyner rost ere mate. Snyt se rechte cleyne. Stot se yn eyneme moser rechte kleyne. Nym eyn luttick honnighes unde krude. Nym rosin unde twe eygere. Bring dat darmanghen. Unde bring dat wedder thohope in eyn stucke. Legge dat yn eynen deghel yn reyne vethe unde kere dat vaken umme. Unde lat dat backen. So brynghe dat vp eyn speth. Unde dorchdrop du dat myt ryngheme specke. Bestrowe dat myt honnighe unde myt krude unde lat dat gar braden. Dat heyt eyn posteydenlevere. ********************** If you want to make a good pie, take the liver from a calf or from a buck/ram and bring it to the boil on a roast/grill according to the size of the liver (?). Then cut it into small pieces, and pound it quite fine in a mortar. Take a small quantity of honey and spices, in addition take raisins/plums and two eggs, and mix it together with the (prepared) liver. And make it into the form of a single piece (of a liver) again. Put this piece into a pot with pure/clear fat and turn the piece often. Let it bake in the pot. Then put it onto a spit, and let drop lard upon it, that is not too valuable (?). Sprinkle it with honey and with spices and let it roast until it is done. This dish is called "posteydenlevere" [pie liver]. *********** Comments are welcome (ideas about the question mark passages; similar recipes from other collections; plausibility of the recipe; things that are not explicitly mentioned in the recipe but that should be mentioned in the translation; alternative translations; ...) Thomas Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: SC - spaetzle - --- Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net> wrote: > does this mean someone has a documentably period > recipe for spaetzle? Not that I am aware of. However, there is a German language book on the history of Spaetzle, that apparently says that spaetzle comes from 14th century monks. I have not seen this book, but have several cookbooks that refer to this book. Perhaps Thomas Gloning can enlighten us as to the truth of this and the reliability of this book? Huette Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:10:52 CEST From: "Christina van Tets" <cjvt at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - Spaetzle recipe OOP The recipe I was taught when living in southern Germany runs as follows: for four people (if you eat like my lord and not like me) 5 cups white flour (preferably strong) 4 eggs enough water to make a stirrable dough (but not runny) Stir it. When it's all mixed together, beat it until it sparkles (nice description - the one I was given by the people I lived with). Wet a cutting board and a knife. Bundle all the dough onto the board and put the bowl and spoon to soak immediately. This stuff sets like concrete. Scrape in little lines of about 1/4 in thick and maybe 2 in long, into simmering salted water. They will sink to the bottom and rise as they are cooked. Wet the knife periodically in the cooking water to remove the clogged bits. Don't do too many at once (I find half a cup or so is about right) or they will stick together, and fish them out with a slotted spoon when they've had a few seconds' floating, otherwise they turn to porridge. Don't forget to soak the board and knife. If you make this kind of quantity I find there are always some left over, and the accepted way in my Schwaebisch household to use them up was either to heat some broth with herbs and chuck in the Spaetzle at the last minute, or to smother them with cheese, bacon and anything else you can think of and put them under the grill. So does anyone know why they are called Spaetzle, and does it have anything to do with sparrows (or sparrow droppings, as a former boyfriend once cheerfully told me)? Cairistiona Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:26:15 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - spaetzle There's a lot of what we consider traditional German dishes in period cookbooks (bratwurst, lebkuchen, various dumplings, etc) but I've never seen a spaetzle recipe in a period German cookbook. Valoise Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:05:05 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - spaetzle Considering that spaetzle is a small, cut or sieved drop noodle, the odds are good that it was done in period. The problem is a recipe specifically describing a spaetzle-like pasta has yet to be found. Ein Buch von Guter Speise appears to avoid dumplings and pasta totally. Sabina Welserin has three dumpling recipes, two of which are for filled dumplings. The third is most interesting as it is a flourless batter recipe (119). The recipe says nothing about how the dumplings are to be shaped, but the description of the dough as a batter suggests that these are drop dumplings. This recipe isn't close to spaetzle, but it might make an interesting substitution. I don't have my recipes handy, but (IIRC) spaetzle is eggs, flour and a little salt worked into a soft dough then rolled out and cut into 1/4" x 1 1/2" strips, or more commonly these days, forced through a ricer and cut off about every 1 1/2". Cook in boiling water or broth for about 10 minutes or until they float. Bear For the curious, the recipe from Sabina Welserin as translated by Valoise Armstrong: 119 If you would make boiled dumplings Then take chard, as much as you like, some sage, marjoram and rosemary, chop it together, also put grated cheese into it and beat eggs therein until you think that it is right. Take also cinnamon, cloves, pepper and raisins and put them into the dumpling batter. Let the dumplings cook, as one cooks a hard-boiled egg, then they are ready. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:27:00 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - spaetzle Bear wrote: >Sabina Welserin has three dumpling recipes, two of which are for filled >dumplings. The third is most interesting as it is a flourless batter recipe >(119). The recipe says nothing about how the dumplings are to be shaped, >but the description of the dough as a batter suggests that these are drop >dumplings. This recipe isn't close to spaetzle, but it might make an >interesting substitution. I've always wondered if Sabina Welserin didn't just inadvertently leave the flour out of this recipe, I'm not sure I've ever heard of German dumpligs (generally called Knoedel or Klosse) without flour or bread crumbs of cubed bread or something of the sort to hold them together. Knoedel were known fairly early. There's a picture from a 12th C. fresco in South Tyrol showing a person making the dumplings. I saw it several years ago when I was in Austria in Franz Maier-Bruck's Das Grosse Sacher Kochbuch. I really, really wish that I'd photocopied that page. Valoise >119 If you would make boiled dumplings > >Then take chard, as much as you like, some sage, marjoram and rosemary, chop >it together, also put grated cheese into it and beat eggs therein until you >think that it is right. Take also cinnamon, cloves, pepper and raisins and >put them into the dumpling batter. Let the dumplings cook, as one cooks a >hard-boiled egg, then they are ready. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:38:19 EDT From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com> Subject: RE: SC - Spaetzle (Recipe Modern) Stefan, here is a recipe that my mother has used for years. Spaetzle - Modern. 3 cups flour Pinch of salt 2 beaten eggs 1 cup water Stir everything together and use in a potato ricer if it is thinner or a cheese grater spaetzle machine if thicker, or thicker yet you can cut it up into small dumplings. Add or remove water to make it thicker or thinner. Boil in water like pasta until it floats, skim out and repeat for the rest of the batter. Cooking only takes a couple of minutes. Serve with butter and salt as desired. Korrin S. DaArdain Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 00:01:29 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Middle Low German Cookery book online For the happy few willing and able to read Middle Low German: the text of Wiswe's edition is now online at http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909/mndk.htm or via: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 (choose 'Alte Kochbuecher') Recipe #39 is a castle made from pounded peas (perhaps I will try and give a translation later; if anybody else wants to, go ahead). Grewe said that the recipes no. 56 to 71 belong to the Harpestraeng-tradition, didn't he? If you find any bugs, esp. on the last pages, where I was a !very! tired proofreader, please, let me know. Thomas Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 16:49:50 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Middle Low German Cookery book Rhiannon asked about the Middle Low German Cookery book and about Wiswe ("When does this date from? And who is Wiswe?"). THe Middle Low German Cookery book is contained in a 15th century manuscript now in the Herzog August-Bibliothek, Wolfenbuettel. It is important because most of the manuscripts with German cooking recipes up to 1500 (there are about 50 such manuscripts) are in the High German dialect, then spoken and written in the middle and southern parts of Germany. One section of these recipes resembles closely to some of the Harpestraeng-recipes (13. century), Nanna mentioned earlier. Hans Wiswe is the editor of this cookery book. He published it in 1956 in the 'Braunschweigisches Jahrbuch' together with a short introduction and a valuable glossary. Two years later he published a 'Nachlese', some additional comments on this text. Wiswe was an outstanding expert on German cookbooks. His 'Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst' (1970) might give you some idea. I am very glad to have some books, that he owned, in my library now. Thomas Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:39:43 -0500 From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com> Subject: SC - A Castle made of peas (From MndK; 15th C.) Here is a first attempt to translate #39 from the Middle Low German Cookbook. (As you may see, there are some problems left.) [MndK #39] Furthermore: if you want to make something from the mentioned peas, that looks like a castle, the longer you pound the peas, the better they will be (for that purpose). Sweeten it slightly with dry sugar. Make from the (paste of) peas (something that looks like) a sauce-dish, so that it is a hand's breadth/length high and a hand's breadth/length wide. Put it into a dish that is like a stewpan [or: into an adequate dish/ a dish made of dough?]. Put two crosses at the outside, such that every cross is a short span long (for the cross-beam) and one hand's breadth/length high. And surround it -- from the same paste of peas too -- with a wall, that shall be also one hand's breadth/lenght high. Then make small cones from the said peas. They shall be the towers, how much of them you like. Put them onto the wall all around. Take a good and adequate <...> and pour it into the sauce-dish. And serve it forth together with fried/baked/roasted herring. Some Notes: - -- The preparation of the peas is described in recipes #35 and (possibly) #38. The peas must be given into a boiling ash-lye and then washed in fresh water untill they loose their shells/husks. Then they are boiled, dried and pounded in a mortar. In #38 they are also mixed with honey and strained through. - -- According to Wiswe, there seems to be a lacuna at the end of the recipe, so we do not know what to give into the sauce-dish. - -- There is another recipe that mentions a _$B!)_(Jorch_$B!)_(J a castle (#77). If anybody knows of similar recipes from other collections, please, let me know. Thomas Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:20 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) > hey all from Anne-Marie > isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to > mind)? George Fugger's recipe for smoked tongue found in Sabina Welserin uses red beet root as part of the pickling process, before smoking the tongue. So it wouldn't surprise me to find it used in other late German recipes. Bear Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - potatoes > I have been told by several different people that potatoes are not period, > but if latkes are period, how can potatoes not be? The Jews have been eating > them for centuries and they (the Jews) were in all countries. I would really > like some clarification. Thanks! I don't know about latkes, but I found the following reference in a cookbook called Green on Greens : Ein NeuKochbuch (A NewCookbook), compiled and printed on Gutenberg's press in 1581, contains the first annotated German recipes; and there are a dozen potato dishes listed among them. One, suprisingly enough, is a very tasty baked tart. toodles, margaret Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:04:05 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Question about cassoulet and recipe / Olla podrida << There is a late period Spanish recipe (1599) for Olla Podrida, a stew/casserole containing many different meats, sausage, root vegetables, and beans. I'll try to get a translation posted soon. If you're willing to go a little bit post-period, it seems likely that there might be a similar dish in 17th century French cuisine, but I am not familiar with those sources. >> There are recipes for Olla potrida in the German cookbooks of Marx Rumpolt (1581; "Hollopotrida") and Franz de Rontzier (1598; "alle Patryden", "Holipotriden von mancherley Fischen"). Rumpolts version has 90 ingredients, the recipe is 4 1/2 pages long and I won't bother you with that, it takes two or three days to prepare it ("der mu? es zween oder drey Tage zuvor anfahen"), but it is good "fr Knig vnd Keyser/ fr Frsten vnd Herrn zu geben" (for high and highest noblemen). Another recipe you might want to look at are the two "Hdsputt"-recipes in Rumpolt; Rumpolt says that it is Dutch, and my modern Dutch-German dictionary says that "hutspot" is a Dutch "Nationalgericht" ('national dish'): "59. Nimm die K 0lbern Knorren/ vberquell vnd seuber sie fein sauber au?/ vnd nimm darzu Hammelfleisch/ vnd ein wenig Rindtfleisch/ vnd la? ein jeglichs besonder an die statt sieden/ vnd wenn es verrichtet/ so nimm gelbe Rben/ schabs/ vnnd schneidt ein jede Rben zu vier stcken/ Nimm auch ein Pastenac Wurtzel/ ist sie dick/ so schneidt sie auch zu vier stcken/ vnnd grosse WasserRben schneidt auch zu vier theilen/ auch kleine lenglichte StickelRben/ quell ein jegliches besonders in einem Wasser/ vnnd wenn es gequellt ist/ so kl es au?/ nimm die Rben/ thu sie vnter dz dreyerley Fleisch/ vnd gie? darber Rindtfleischbrh/ die nicht fei?t ist/ hack es mit grnen wolschmeckenden Kr 0utern/ vnd schneidt ein wenig Zwibeln darvnter/ Auch ein Weck/ der fein geweicht/ vnd au? dem Wasser wol au?gedruckt ist/ hack das alles durcheinander/ vnd auch ein wenig Knobloch/ ein Zehe oder zwo/ vnd wenn es durcheinander gehackt ist/ so thu es vnter dz Fleisch/ mach es mit eim Gewrtz ab/ mit gantzem Pfeffer/ gestossenem Pfeffer vnd Jngwer/ machs gelb mit Saffran/ vnd la? das alles miteinander sieden/ vnnd schaw/ da? du es nicht versaltzest/ so wirt es lieblich vnd gut. Darumb hastu das Brot darvnter gehackt/ da? du kein Mehl darein darffst eynbrennen/ so wirt die Brh fein dick vnd wolgeschmack davon. Vnd diese Spei? nennet man Hdsputt/ vnd ist ein Niderlendisch essen." (Rumpolt 1581, fol. 23b-24a) The second version is quite similar but has this addition: "(...) Vnd diese Spei? nennet man auff Niderlendisch Hudspudt. Du magst auch wol ein str 0uchlein oder zwey Rosemarein darein thun/ da? ein lieblichen geschmack gibt/ wenns auffgesotten hat/ so thut man die Rosemarein wider herau?/ so wirt es gut vnd wolgeschmack." (Rumpolt 1581, fol. 140a). Gwen Cat works on an English translation of Rumpolt's Hdsputt-recipe. The 'Ouverture de cuisine' de Lancelot de Casteau (1604) has also a recipe "Pour faire vn pot pourry dict en Espaignolle Oylla podrida" (101-105) and three recipes for "heuspot".