fd-France-msg – 5/17/14 Food of medieval France. References. NOTE: See also the files: France-msg, fd-Germany-msg, fd-Normans-msg, fd-Celts-msg, snails-msg, Gaul-art, Normans-msg, Paris-msg, frogs-msg, duck-goose-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:15:02 -0500 From: Angie Malone Subject: Re: SC - cookbooks >Since I'm from the France, in the 1500's, I thought it was high time that I >learn some recipes from the region and time period. So, if anyone knows the >name of a cookbook that I can pick up at the library, I would really >appreciate it. > >Chante Not sure what century this book is from but it would probably be helpful to look at it: Early French Cookery: Sources, History, Original Recipes and Modern Adaptations D. Eleanor Scully Eleanor Scully Terence Scully Your library should be able to get it if they don't have it thru interlibrary loan. Angeline Lady Angeline di Aquila Seneschal--Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:18:17 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - cookbooks Pink Sunshine wrote: > Since I'm from the France, in the 1500's, I thought it was high time that I > learn some recipes from the region and time period. So, if anyone knows the > name of a cookbook that I can pick up at the library, I would really > appreciate it. Hmmm...16th century... you seem to have instinctively hit on something of a gap in the written material, at least compared to the 15th and 17th centuries in France. From the fifteenth century we have Chiquart's (in this case _very_ early 15th) Du Fait de Cuisine, and then somewhat later there's the Vivendier, which is, IIRC, a 16th-century ms. found in Germany but written in French, which may or may not be a direct linear descendant of Taillevent's Le Viandier. It has some very buff and kewl stuff in it, and there's a fairly recent edition edited by Terence Scully. And speaking of Scully, I believe Le Viandier might have had some textual currency in the form of copies being made until at least the sixteenth century, so one might argue it (or rather a linear descendant -- the recipes seem to change a bit over time, either due to food fashion/evolution or scribal changes) might have had a culinary influence on some strata of 16th-century French society. Adamantius Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:10:52 -0600 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - cookbooks At 1:46 PM -0600 12/8/99, Pink Sunshine wrote: >Since I'm from the France, in the 1500's, I thought it was high time that I >learn some recipes from the region and time period. So, if anyone knows the >name of a cookbook that I can pick up at the library, I would really >appreciate it. You will find English translations of two cookbooks a little earlier than that on my web page. David Friedman http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:24:55 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - cookbooks Savoring the Past also delves deeply into the changes in French cookery from the Middle Ages to the abrupt style change in the early modern or' nouveau cuisine' period. This book like many others of its ilk tends to parrot the old cliches and inaccuracies that appear in almost every supposedly 'scholarly' work on the subject but as a source for basic information on French cookery just post-middle ages, it is not a bad read. Ras Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 02:03:12 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: SC - French 16th century cookbooks A good place to start is the article: Philip Hyman et Mary Hyman: Les livres de cuisine et le commerce des recettes en France aux XVe et XVIe siècles. In: Du manuscrit à la table. Ed. Carole Lambert. Paris/ Montréal 1992, 59-68. This article contains a chronological list of printed French cookbooks from about 1486 up to about 1620 (2 1/2w pages bibliography; about 50 versions). Thomas Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:27:24 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - French 16th century cookbooks Pink Sunshine wrote: > << Philip Hyman et Mary Hyman: Les livres de cuisine et le > commerce des recettes en France aux XVe et XVIe siècles. > In: Du manuscrit à la table. Ed. Carole Lambert. > Paris/ Montréal 1992, 59-68. >> > > I'm not sure what this is, is it something I look up at the library or on > the internet? > > Chante No, this is the real thing; you need a library. It's a book of collected essays on culinary history in several languages, French and English making up most, but not all, of the text, which is edited by Carole Lambert, published in Paris and Montreal in 1992 by a company called Champion-Slatkine. The title is "Du manuscrit à la table", and the ISBN is 2-7606-1564-2 _OR_ 2-85203-707-6. The rest of the above is the title of an essay by Philip and Mary Hyman. Adamantius Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:45:54 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: Re: SC - French 16th century cookbooks And it came to pass on 10 Dec 99,, that Pink Sunshine wrote: > << Philip Hyman et Mary Hyman: Les livres de cuisine et le > commerce des recettes en France aux XVe et XVIe siècles. > In: Du manuscrit à la table. Ed. Carole Lambert. > Paris/ Montréal 1992, 59-68. >> > > I'm not sure what this is, is it something I look up at the library or on > the internet? > > Chante _Du manuscrit a la table_ is a collection of essays on various aspects of medieval cuisine. About half of them are in French, and half in English. (It was published in Montreal, dontcha know.) Your local library will probably not have the book, but they should be able to request photocopies of pp. 59-68 for you. Tell the librarian that the ISBN is 2-7606-1564-2. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:02:54 -0800 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] any suggestions for soltie? Olwen wrote: >OK the Bright Hills cooks are at it again in April. The time and theme for >that feast will be recipes from the era and area of King Rene'. In other >words, late 1400's French cookery. No one at the meeting made any >suggestions about a soltie and I have no idea, being not french and way long >dead by the 1400's (I'm 9th centruy Welsh/Saxon). Look at _Du Fait de Cuisine_ (1420, French--not too far off what you want); my translation is on Cariadoc's website and there exists a professional one by Terrance Scully. It describes some subtleties or "entremets" which are elaborate past anything I've seen or heard of at SCA feasts. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:36:33 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger Subject: [Sca-cooks] OOP-French food website To: "SCA Cooks' List" Maire, again, with another food website. This one has some very yummy-looking french foods (herbs, flours, coffees, teas, pastries, jams, etc). http://www.furansunocafe.com/html/en/index.php --maire Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:37:06 -0700 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Introduction and a Request To: Cooks within the SCA > So basically I'm looking for any suggestions any of you may have for > recipes (or leads on where to find them) for Provencale foods, > either period or modern. You might want to look at _Du Fait de Cuisine_--there is a translation webbed on my site. It's a 15th century cookbook written by the chief cook of the Duke of Savoy, which gets it pretty close to Provence. I don't know of any period cookbooks that are actually from Provence, but I'm not very familiar with the 16th century sources. -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:48:12 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Introduction and a Request To: Cooks within the SCA On Apr 14, 2006, at 2:37 AM, David Friedman wrote: >> So basically I'm looking for any suggestions any of you may have >> for recipes (or leads on where to find them) for Provencale foods, >> either period or modern. > > You might want to look at _Du Fait de Cuisine_--there is a > translation webbed on my site. It's a 15th century cookbook written > by the chief cook of the Duke of Savoy, which gets it pretty close > to Provence. I don't know of any period cookbooks that are actually > from Provence, but I'm not very familiar with the 16th century > sources. It's been alleged that the Harpestrang manuscript, a version of which has been published as "An Old Icelandic Medical Miscellany", and in another form as "Libellus de arte coquinaria" are in fact recipes from the South of France. I don't know if there's any more compelling reason than the comparatively frequent appearance of olive oil, almonds, and saffron in a manuscript in the library of a Dane believed to have gone to medical school in the South of France, but the theory that these recipes are more French Riviera than Scandinavian is definitely out there. Adamantius Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:39:38 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] provencal Recipes To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Barbara Santich in "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine" includes two recipes from a Meridionale cookbook (that's southern France, not necessarily Provence, but doubtless close). They are for stuffed fresh sardines (quite different from the canned version) and for blancmange.There are apparently two versions of the original: Anonimo Meridionale/Libro A and Anonimo Meridionale/Libro B I don't recall seeing them - or maybe they're on Thomas Gloning's site - but it's in Langue d'Oc, which is unlike Medieval French (feels like a combo of French, Catalan, and Italian), and i can't read it well yet. So, do you want Santich's two recipes, or do you want modern Provencal recipes? -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:18:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: provencal Recipes To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ===== Urtatim wrote: Barbara Santich in "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine" includes two recipes from a Meridionale cookbook (that's southern France, not necessarily Provence, but doubtless close). They are for stuffed fresh sardines (quite different from the canned version) and for blancmange.There are apparently two versions of the original: Anonimo Meridionale/Libro A and Anonimo Meridionale/Libro B I don't recall seeing them - or maybe they're on Thomas Gloning's site - but it's in Langue d'Oc, which is unlike Medieval French (feels like a combo of French, Catalan, and Italian), and i can't read it well yet. ===== OK I have both of them at home. To me they read like an Italian dialect and I have always taken them to be southern Italian in origin. That is generally how they are identified in the Italian culinary sources. I know from the times I have browsed them that the recipes are very similar to those in the martino corpus. But then again when you look across europe there were very many dishes in common across the royal cultures. Blancmange, losyns, white tart, to name just a few. I'll have a look at them again tonight and see how it pans out. The one thing that I would say about the food in the warmer climes is that you find a lot more salads and raw fruit turning up in the menus. I once did a lunch for the laurel meeting at Pennsic with Mistress Rachaol based on a menu from August from Scappi. It was based on the first and last courses, everything was served cold, from the ham, to the pies, to the salads and fruit. Serving the number of people you need to serve should certainly be doable. Helewyse Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:21:37 -0700 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: provencal Recipes To: Cooks within the SCA > Do you mean to say that the recipes are in Occitan? (It is related to > French, Spanish, and Catalan, by the way.) I would like to see them. > Also, I have heard that the early 13th century northern cookery > book that Rudolf Grewe translated may be a translation of a Provencal > cookbook. Any thoughts? Can anyone confirm this idea (or not)? My memory is that Grewe thought the original was from southern Europe, but I don't remember anything as specific as Provence. -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Introduction and a Request. To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Irene wrote: === * I have plans for a soteltie dessert that will require a cake of some sort. If necessary, I can go with a recipe that isn't really Provencale. But if anyone has any cake recipe ideas I'd love to hear them. (Otherwise I'll probably just do some sort of orange flavored cake, maybe with bits of candied orange peel in the batter.) === Not a whole lot of cakes in period, oven usage and all that. Might I suggest the addition of orange flower water in addition to orange juice it will really liven the flavor up. You can get orange flower water at most middle eastern stores. === * In addition to the soteltie, I'd like to offer some sort of fruit plate or fruit salad. Any ideas? === Please check out the menus for the month of August taken from Scappi. http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/augustmenus.html The menus are incredibly fruit heavy, this isn't your Northern European cuisine, it is hot, cold fruits are tasty (often by the 16th century they were chilled in snow prior to service). For example the lunch on the 16th of august there are six different fruits served, including red (water) and white (sweet) melons, Peeled plums served with sugar. Capon Sopramentati is a boiled capon with a spice blend sprinkled on it. Cold ham is simply that, cold ham, make a nice mustard. The last course (from the sideboard) is also served cold, here you find things like pears cooked in wine, peaches peeled and served in wine (very tasty with a chilled lambrusco). With dinner menus you tend to see salads: salad of mixed green with flowers, borage salad, salad of citron sliced etc. August at Pennsic is just as hot as August in Italy or Provencal the same types of foods would be popular, cooling foods, light foods. Helewyse Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:57:15 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Provencal Recipes To: Cooks within the SCA There is an actual source for Provencal recipes dating from the Middle Ages. Carole Lambert wrote her PhD using such a manuscript. The thesis is titled-- Trois réceptaires culinaires médiévaux : Les Enseingnemenz, les Doctrine et le Modus Édition critique et glossaire détaillé / Carole Lambert 1989 French Book : xiv, 303 f. [Montréal] : Université de Montréal, Contact your library to see about ILLoan. [Her MS was titled--- Edition d'un recueil de recettes culinaires et d'un réceptaire sur les greffes inédits du XVe siècle (Paris, B.N. Latin 6707) / Carole Lambert French Book vi, 92 f. [Montréal] : Université de Montréal, 1983. Don't let the library staff at ILLoan get the two mixed up.] She refers to the collection of recipes as Modus and refers to them in her chapter on Southern France that appears in Regional Cuisines of Medieval Europe: A Book of Essays, ed. Melitta Weiss Adamson (New York and London: Routledge, 2002), xviii + 254 pages. That would be an excellent place to start to research the topic by the way. She's the co-author of Fêtes gourmandes au Moyen Âge along with Jean-Louis Flandrin; which appeared in 1998. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:45:16 -0700 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Update on Lisabetta's Feast To: Cooks within the SCA > It is going to be French, and 4 removes > The last remove will be a desserts & salad remove > > as said before it will be for roughly 80 people, we do have a lot of > people on Atkins, and would like to have a balance for those who > don't do the starches.. > > we also have a few non red meat & non pork eaters, so I am thinking > at least one needs to include chicken.. > > anyone have links for period french cuisine? http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/ Menagier_Contents.html http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Du_Fait_de_Cuisine/ du_fait_de_c_contents.html And you can find some worked out recipes at: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Misc9recipes.pdf -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:33:00 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period French Cookbooks To: Cooks within the SCA sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org betta wrote: <<< Can anyone recommend any period french cookbooks? I would like to spend my holiday weekend reading :) and planning.. >>> My earlier suggestions from June 6 2006 still remain in the archives. I suggested then- Le Menagier comes to mind. Several recipes already out there for that one. Try Googling menagier and recipes for a selection. (Not all will be appropriate.) Also check out the list of sources mentioned here. http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/cookmat.htm A number of texts are online or can be interlibrary loaned. Also check out the illustrations shown here http://expositions.bnf.fr/fouquet/enimages/expo_us/index.htm http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/enimages/anglais/index.htm http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/aaccueil.htm They may give you some ideas. Johnnae The relevant question today might be can you read French or do you need all translated texts. The new edition of The Goodman of Paris is out again. http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832224.HTM Johnna Johnna wrote on June 29th 2006 It seems obvious to me that you might want to start with Wheaton's Savoring the Past and read that volume. Then take her bibliography and look up all the sources mentioned there and read those. Thomas has his list posted at http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/cookmat.htm You could start with that list of sources. I think we've already mentioned that the Online French are posted here http://www.thousandeggs.com/cookbooks.html#FRENCH Johnnae Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:45:53 -0400 From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise Subject: [Sca-cooks] found by the side of the search To: Cooks within the SCA I'm once again working with the Chocolate research of someone editing Madame de Sevigny's letters, and she's looking for background material on the development of medicinal food theory in 17th-18th c. France. Anyway, this article popped up as I was searching: Medieval French food for Jewish New Year: http://www.triviumpublishing.com/articles/medievaljewishnewyear.html -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:45:48 -0800 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 1500'S French cookbooks To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" Hi from Anne-Marie When I was doing my research for my French Food in the Renaissance CA/Feudal Gourmet, I found the same "hole". After Chiquart (which was definitely a medieval cookbook in terms of flavorings and techniques), and until la Varenne (SO not medieval) there was this big hole...most odd! And yet somehow in that time, we saw the evolution of the emulsion sauce, a switch in flavorings, souring agents, etc. Casteau and his Ovverature de Cuisine seems to be a bridge in that way (and thanks to Tomas Glonig for making it available to us!) with a foot in both the medieval and the "new" styles. He's late 1500s, and more Belgian than French, but maybe it will suit your needs? --Anne-Marie, who thinks the trends in cooking techniques, etc is just as much fun as the recipes themselves :) -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Kiel I'm looking for any translations of French cookbooks from the 1500s. I've got pre- and post- that century, but a distressing lack in between. Thanks for any suggestions! Nancy Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:18:39 -0500 From: Nancy Kiel Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 1500'S French cookbooks To: Cooks within the SCA I did find a reference to "Le Grand Cuisinier" edited (?) by Pierre Piroulx, but haven't found any more info about it. I think they want more the first half of the century, so Viandier (sp?) might suffice. Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:13:54 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 1500'S French cookbooks To: Cooks within the SCA , Nancy Kiel Nancy Kiel wrote: > I'm looking for any translations of French cookbooks from the > 1500s. I've got pre- and post- that century, but a distressing > lack in between. Thanks for any suggestions! > Nancy Kiel What happens is that there is a gap in publications in France during the 16th century. I can tell you that Le Ouverture has been translated into English. *Ouverture de Cuisine* (France, 1604 - Daniel Myers, trans.) The original source can be found at MedievalCookery.com It was published in 1604 but Terence Scully indicates that it was actually written about 1585. In his new translation of La Varenne, Scully gives us a helpful list of the books published between 1486 and 1615. Another that is available of course is Nostradamus's book on confections. I did a TI article on that book about 3 years back. Johnnae Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:03:01 -0500 From: " Guenievre de Monmarch? " Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 1500'S French cookbooks To: "Cooks within the SCA" I can fill in that hole just *slightly* - it's still not 1500's, but it's at least *later* 1400's - 1466, to be exact. http://www.erminespot.com/docs/Le%20Recueil%20de%20Riom.pdf Guenievre Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forthcoming titles Fall 2008 LONG To: Cooks within the SCA As promised sometime back here's a list of some forthcoming fall 08- winter 09 titles that might be of interest to readers of this list. They cover a full range of topics. I've included details, descriptions or links where I have them. A number of the lists I used didn't record prices possibly because they were not yet set. Johnnae ----------------- *A Revolution in Taste: The Rise of French Cuisine, 1650 to 1800: *by Susan Pinkard 336 pages. ?Cambridge University Press; 1 edition (31 Oct 2008) English 0521821991*. * 978-0521821995 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:57:41 +0200 From: Ana Vald?s To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: [Sca-cooks] for the French speakers on the list! http://www.fabula.org/actualites/article33483.php It's a book with recipes from the XV century, from the French region of Auvergne. It's called "Le recueil du Riom" Pr?sentation de l'?diteur: *Le Recueil de Riom*, oeuvre anonyme conserv?e dans un manuscrit auvergnat du XV?me si?cle, renferme quarante-huit recettes de cuisine, dont un certain nombre se retrouve dans d'autres trait?s culinaires tant du XIV?me que du XV?me si?cles. Il se distingue des trait?s pr?c?dents par une v?ritable bri?vet? de ton, s'apparentant alors dans sa forme aux *Enseignemens qui enseingnent a apareilier toutes manieres de viandes*. En effet, les recettes qu'il offre sont, ? de tr?s rares exceptions, assez succinctes et se r?sument souvent ? donner l'essentiel. Cette ?dition du *Recueil de Riom* offre, en regard du texte original, une traduction en fran?ais moderne. Elle est compl?t?e par une introduction, une annexe et un glossaire. Jean-Fran?ois Kosta-Th?faine, docteur en litt?rature m?di?vale, est chercheur associ? au Centre d'Etudes des Textes M?di?vaux ? Universit? de Rennes 2. -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpn?ck Sweden Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:49:20 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Le Recueil de Riom for the French speakers on the list! On Oct 12, 2009, at 7:57 PM, Ana Vald?s wrote: <<< http://www.fabula.org/actualites/article33483.php It's a book with recipes from the XV century, from the French region of Auvergne. It's called "Le recueil du Riom" >>> It's up as a .pdf here in an English translation. www.erminespot.com/cooking/le-recueil-de-riom There's also a dissertation on it by Carole Lambert. Johnnae Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:21:40 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA , SCA-AuthenticCooks at yahoogroups.com Subject: [Sca-cooks] Livre fort excellent de cuisine 1555 While doing some work this am, I came across this announcement dated Tue, January 26, 2010. From Valparaiso University and the Committee on Creative Work and Research. Dr. Timothy Tomasik, assistant professor of foreign languages and literatures, to complete a translation and critical edition of the Renaissance French cookbook "The Livre fort excellent de cuisine". The Livre fort excellent de cuisine dates from 1555 so having it available in translation would be a great addition to the study of 16th century French cookery. Johnnae Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:50:00 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Century <<< (For an example- I'm currently doing a lot of research on the Carolinginan Franks. And came across this: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/800Asnapium.html - it even tells you what pots are in the kitchen! Very useful stuff!) 'Lainie >>> There is also a copy of this out in the Florilegium. I copied the text of the inventory of Asnapium and the Capitulare de Villis when I first encountered them about ten years ago in a sourcebook published in 1902. The Latin text of Capitulare de Villis can also be found on the web and it is quite useful when arguing about 9th Century foodstuffs available in Carolinginan France. Bear Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:55:23 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hello Back with some sources There's one very short collection of 51 recipes written in Latin and Occitan. It's known as Modus viaticorum preparandarum. It's part of this doctoral dissertation: Carole Lambert, Trois r?ceptaires culinaires m?di?vaux: Les Enseingnementz, les Doctrine et le Modus: ?dition critique et glossaire d?taill?. Dissertatio Universitatis Montis Regalis, 1989 The dissertation is in French. I'd suggest starting with Melitta Adamson's Regional Cuisines of Medieval Europe: a Book of Essays. 2002. It has a chapter in it with a very good bibliography that addresses the south of France. The author is Carole Lambert who did the dissertation mentioned above. Also Santich, Barbara. The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: Medieval Recipes for Today. might be good to read also. Occitian may appear under occitan. Johnnae On Apr 18, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Jamie Griffin wrote: <<< I'm looking forward to learning from you all. My Mom (Mordonna the Cook) has been teaching me to redact recipes and I'm looking to learn even more. Also, I'm looking for some research ideas for finding Occitian recipes that would have been period. Lady Lie du Bosc >>> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 00:44:53 +0000 (GMT) From: emilio szabo To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Occitan recipes What exactly are you looking for? Recipes from, say, Montpellier or Sete, in whatever Language? Or Recipes in a specific language (which one?). Mme Thibault-Comelade (I think she is based in Montpellier or in Perpignan) has written copiously on the history of Catalan cuisine, including its northern varieties which might be relevant for you. E. Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:07:04 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thanks for the suggestions :) Interlibrary loan ought to be able to supply the Melitta Adamson's Regional Cuisines of Medieval Europe: a Book of Essays. 2002. Santich, Barbara. The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: Medieval Recipes for Today was sold for a number of years for $5 a copy through various reminder dealers. It should be in SCA collections and be able to be purchased cheaply. The Lambert dissertation would have to be ordered probably through a University. If you read either modern French or old French, please let us know. Johnna (playing librarian) On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Jamie Griffin wrote: <<< Thanks for the research suggestions. Now all I need to do is find them in a form I can afford ... off to the used book store and searching the on-line libraries...I miss having a large public library that had access to an even larger university library...sigh Lady Lie du Bosc >>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French In a message dated 1/14/2013 12:34:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, park-lady at hotmail.com writes: <<< I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France. Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period. any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated. >>> One obvious source would be the fifteenth century version of Taillevent's Viandier (which also includes several menus from the fifteenth century that would not have been compiled by Taillevent himself). I've done my own translation of this ("How To Cook a Peacock") but if you read French it's available on-line: _http://books.google.com/books?id=XOoYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauth or:pichon+Viandier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vm70UOnRC-bmiwKP6YEo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=XOoYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:pichon+Viandier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vm70UOnRC-bmiwKP6YEo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA) A number of the recipes in this version are not found in the four manuscripts Scully examined and are probably 15th century interpolations. Jim Chevallier www.chezjim.com Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:44:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French Euriol wrote: Not sure how well this will paste here, but here are some sources: [SNIP] Euriol's list is taken from Euriol's own website on google. There are links to the titles to the texts on-line. Here is the URL so you can access them: https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/researching-medieval-cuisine/online-resources/online-texts Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:05:13 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French My comprehensive bibliography French Medieval and Renaissance Cookery and Cookbooks appeared in the Spring 2011 issue of the Gauntlet. These bibliographies from the Gauntlet are being re-edited for publication in a pamphlet series, but if you'll write me offlist, I'll answer any questions you may have. The latest translated volume and one worth seeking out would be The Most Excellent Book of Food [Livre Fort excellent de cuysine 1542] by Ken Albala and Timothy Tomasik. Totnes, Devon: Prospect Books, 2012, 2013. (If you read French, there are a number of fascinating volumes that can be interlibrary loaned too.) Johnnae, playing librarian and bibliographer On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Beth Paul-Soch wrote: <<< I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France. Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period. any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated. >>> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:07:58 +0000 From: David Friedman To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French Elizabeth's translation of Du Fait de Cuisine is on the medieval page of my site. On 1/14/13 8:34 PM, Beth Paul-Soch wrote: <<< I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France. Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period. any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated. Dyonisia >>> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] La Cuisine m?di?vale Yann Amouret Just happened on a French set of medieval redactions, readable in part at least for free: La Cuisine m?di?vale Yann Amouret Editions Atelier du gu? (2003) _http://lekti.net/liseuse/9782913589377/index.html_ (http://lekti.net/liseuse/9782913589377/index.html) One is for lacquered eel. Never saw that one. Jim Chevallier www.chezjim.com Edited by Mark S. Harris fd-France-msg Page 17 of 17