yeasts-msg - 6/7/08 Medieval use of yeast. Using it in the CMA. NOTE: See also these files: BNYeast-art, bread-msg, beverages-msg, beer-msg, mead-msg, breadmaking-msg, leavening-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Richard Bainter <pug at interval.net> Subject: Re: brewing yeasts To: bryn-gwlad at eden.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:08:45 -0500 (CDT) > >I am hoping it will be worth it in just better taste. (Things sitting > >around my house too long will start fermenting on the yeasts floating > >around in the air from the amount of brewing of late.) > Oh yuck. I can just see it now. Yeast growing on cheese, and milk and > sausage and tea and... old shoes and... Not that bad at all. Only had problems with juices left out. > How do you keep the wrong yeasts from the wrong beverage? You steralize and stop (lots of different methods) the yeasts in whatever you are brewing. Then when you pitch the yeast you want and it has the highest chance of taking hold. (You give it a head start by either using liquid yeast or a yeast starter.) > I'm assuming you are using different yeasts for beers, ales and wines. And many different kinds. There is a good yeast FAQ at: http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/yeast-faq.html > You're not doing bread making are you? Nope. My mother-in-law does that. > Yes, with commercial yeasts you may not > have to leave them open to the air for long, but.. Lots of people still use an open style fermintation. This means you just leave it open and let whatever lands in it go. This works in places that have high concentrations of the yeast you want. (And of course doing this successfully means that the yeast then has a higher chance of being the one you want due to it multiplying. Nice cycle.) -- Phelim Uhtred Gervas | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something Barony of Bryn Gwlad | graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with House Flaming Dog | vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes pug at pug.net | beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?" From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com> To: sca-cooks at eden.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:27:16 -0400 Subject: Re: sca-cooks Greetings Sharon L. Harrett wrote: > A thread has been heating up on my other listserver and I would like > to ask you all your opinions. The discussion is on "yeast", for brewing and > baking. The argument seems to be split between those who believe that > "yeast" was unknown in period and therefore should not be used in any > authentic period cooking, baking or brewing. The other side is that although > folks in period did not neccessarily call their leavening "yeast" we know > now that most starters work because wild yeasts have taken up residence in > them, and that therefore to ensure a quality product for SCA consumption it > would not be a leap of logic to use packaged yeast for baking and brewing. > Ceridwen I don't see what the problem is with using commercial yeast. It provides a reasonably sure, unmutated yeast culture that does the job with a greater level of consistency than any sourdough can. Sourdough is a southern European thing anyway, and while it is very ancient, you cannot assume all baking was done that way. Northern European recipes generally call for barm, which is a byproduct from brewing ale, using a top-fermenting ale yeast. While this must at one time have been developed from wild yeasts, the ale recipes often call for adding an existing yeast starter. Considering the amounts produced by some of the brewing recipes, and the records of the disappointment expressed when a feast day's entire batch of ale or beer turned out to be bad, I wouldn't think they'd want to mess around taking chances By the way, where do people think the little blocks of fresh yeast, wrapped in foil, come from? If you read the label carefully, you'll generally find that much of it is produced by a subsidiary of Anheuser-Busch. Q.E.D. Adamantius From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt) To: sca-cooks at eden.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:43:05 -0600 Subject: sca-cooks yeast in cooking While I can't tell you the date of the recipe (it is during the 16th century) it is taken from A Booke of Cookry. To seeth Roches, Flounders, or Eeles. Make ye good broth with new yest, put therin vergious, salt, percely, a little time, and not much rosemary and pepper, so set it upon the fire and boile it, and when it is well boyled put in the Roches, Flounders, Eeles and a little sweet butter. Almost all the sauce for fish include yeast, which I found interesting. Many thanks to Katerine Rountre for her notes on yeast. They were what I needed since I haven't started redacting yet. Next question is how do you think the yeast was used....(what consistency) Clare St. John From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) To: sca-cooks at eden.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:44:41 -0500 Subject: sca-cooks yeast Hi, Katerine here. Tibor said: > Many thanks to Katerine Rountre for her notes on yeast. They were what I > needed since I haven't started redacting yet. Next question is how do you > think the yeast was used....(what consistency) > >Wow. I have NO ideas. I'd scoop up a tablespoon of ale barm from a bottle >of home-made beer, and taste it. And see how it works. (Damn shame if I'd >have to drink the beer to get to the barm, wouldn't it be? :-) I don't know either. I do know that yeast and barm show up as *alternatives* in some recipes, so there seems to have been some other form available; and since using sourdough occurs rarely relative to yeast, I doubt that's it. More than that, I can't say. Cheers, -- Katerine/Terry From: MaryGraceB at aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - More on Yeast...for real this time Ok guys....my mouse died and I am trying to learn to navigate without one until I can get to the store to get another....so that is hopefully a plausible excuse for sending out a message that did not have anything in it....<g> Following is the message that I intended to send regarding the yeast issue. MGB From: rayc at totcon.com (Ray Caughlin) Another older timer and I spend a couple hours on the phone and she said that I needed to inform people that yes yeast did exist during our societal time period: in its wild and natural form. She continued to tell stories of ways that our early ancestors used to harvest these yeastie beasties. Alewives, would make rush brooms which they used only to stir their brew. When not in use, they were hung near the open door way of their home. In essence the broom was being soaked in the ale makings and then it collected the wild yeast organism. Toast or bread was added to some brews to impart "their flavor." Our knowledge of yeast is modern. We know how to cultivate it and package it. We have been able to break it down and discover that different forms of yeast help produce food and beverages of varied kinds. Taken from a work by Duke (?)Caraidoc and his Lady Wife, " Chemical Leavenings So far as we can discover, both baking soda and baking powder are far out of period. According to the 1992 Old Farmer's Almanac, Saleratus (Potassium Bicarbonate) was patented as a chemical leavening in 1840. Hartshorn (Ammonium Carbonate) was used for stiffening jellies by about the end of the sixteenth century (Wilson) but we have found no reference to its use as a leavening agent prior to the late 18th century." http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/cooking_from_primary_sources.html I think all will find this link filled with useful information concerning food and cooking for the Society. So I return to my statement that our ancestors had to gather the wild yeast by creating leavenings or starters which encouraged the growth of these wild wonders, but that yeast (by that name or as a purchasable product) did not! I am sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes by standing by my research, but if I didn't believe it, I wouldn't have written it. This does prove that having a host of awards after one's name does help. The you might have realized that I have done a great deal of research concerning food and food preparation. Still active (like proofed yeast) Lord Mandrigal of Mu, Master Oldenfeld Cooks Guild. From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com> To: sca-cooks at eden.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:26:50 -0400 Subject: Re: sca-cooks Greetings Aonghas MacLeoid (B.G. Morris) wrote: > Yeast, as we know it, would most definitely have been used in period times. > To achieve the yeast, and rising of today, periods cooks would leave a bowl > of flour, water (or milk) and sugar. This was used to collect *wild* yeast, > that would form the basis for bread, with a *natural* rising take place. It > is my opinion that medieval breads could be likened to *sour dough* bread. > > Regards, > Ealasaid The sourness of a given batch of sourdough starter depends on the number of generations that have passed, and mutated, since the capture of the original yeast. Wild yeasts of fairly recent vintage can still produce a not-especially-sour dough. It is only when it is recycled quite a few times that it becomes really sour, or in some cases, bitter. When it reaches that stage it is (and presumably was, or may have been) common practice to throw it away and start a new batch. Adamantius From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Greetings Re Yeast in period, May I refer one and all to two books: English bread and yeast cookery : Elizabeth David Food in England : Huxley (long oout of print, but now available again in a vastly overpriced edition from Little Brown) Both books spend a lot of time on yeast in english cookery. Aldreada of the lakes From: Ilkka Heikki Salokannel <Rennes at xl.ca> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 23:37:40 PDT Subject: SC - Re yeast, chewets, and confits Greetings Cooks, Re Yeast: - You are quite correct in that the medieval cook couldnt go to a store and buy a package of dried yeast BUT both the word "yest" and "berme" or "barm" (ale yeast) were used in medieval sources (to give just a few examples): [Royal 17. A. iii MS. British Library, London. (c. 1370)] Ad faciendum brakott - "...put therto newe berm..." [MS BL Add. 5016 British Library, London (c. 1380) known as Form of Cury ] Frytour of erbes - "... a lytel yest..."; Bragget - "... do gode berme aboue..." [Rawlinson MS. D1222 Bodleian Library, Oxford (c.1380)] Mynceleek - "...do theryn a litel berme or a litel sourdoug" [Harleian Ms. 279. (c.1420)] Cryspey - "... a lytel Berme..."; Fretoure - "take whete floure, Ale yest, Safroun, & Salt..."; Rastons - "...than take warme Berme...". [Holkham Collection (c. 1460) known as "A Noble Boke off Cookry ffor a Prynce Houssolde of eny other Estately Houssolde"] To mak rostand - "...a litill yest of new ale..." Leavening could be done two ways in the Middle Ages by either the sourdough method or by using the froth or "barm" from the top of fermenting ale. This was "ale yest". (Beer yeast ferments on the bottom.) They, of course, had no idea what yeast was (first discovered by Louis Pasteur in the 19th century). The "yeast" in the sourdough method was airborne wild yeasts of two kinds in medieval Europe. In the north the wild yeasts are what were later domesticated into modern "ale" and "beer" yeasts. In the south the wild yeasts are what become "wine" yeasts. As the temperature increased the limit of grape growing and airborne wild "wine" yeast moved north and the medieval climate was, on the whole, warmer than modern day. Modern "bread" yeasts are derived from the domestication of North American wild airborne yeasts. (Sourdough yeasts for starters came from N.America to France not the other way around.) Yeasts are differentiated by their tolerance for alcohol - a toxic waste product to the yeast. Here in N. America we can make very good sourdough without buying expensive starter packages, but have to protect our wine and beer during fermentation from wild yeasts. [I worked in R&D for Wine-Art in the seventies and read my way around an entire room of books about wine, wine history, wine tasting, the chemical composition of wine, and yeasts. - thought I should explain how I know this.] Mistress Rowenna de Roncesvalles OL. OP Barony of Lions Gate, Kingdom of An Tir - ------------------------------------- Name: Ilkka Heikki Salokannel E-mail: Ilkka Heikki Salokannel<Rennes at xl.ca> From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Scottish Recipes In some of my older German recipe books, an ingredient is called for that translates as 'hartshorn'. It is used in place of baking powder. Is there a zoologist out there who could tell us if grated deer antlers would perform like baking powder or soda? If so, we could use the modern substitute for health reasons. If I recall correctly, hartshorn is an ammoniated equivalent to baking powder, still available in England, and which produces a slightly different flavor and texture. Tibor Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:46:50 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts) Par Leijonhufvud wrote: > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Stephanie Rudin wrote: > > > gently and then dispose of the sediment. Would you want to keep that > > sediment > > when using it to cook with? Or is it just nasty stuff that should be > > disposed of? > > It should be usable as a "substitute" for yeast (it is yeast:-). IIRC > there are comments by Roman writers (with these words I hereby invoke the, > Adamantius! ;-) that the Germans had bread that was much nicer that their > own, without the sour taste and all. Pliny the Elder, Historia Naturalis, IIRC, is what you are referring to...the problem is that most of what comes to us as homebrew is top-fermenting ale, and what sinks to the bottom is almost completely dead yeast. You might be able to take a solution of water and sugar (preferably malt extract or actual brewer's wort) and use that trub at the bottom to create a live yeast starter. When you've got that, you can skim some of the foamy glop off the TOP, and use that for leavening, since it's now live yeast. Bear in mind that in period both brewing and baking were not so much frequent events as constantly ongoing processes, and the raw materials for one were regularly being produced by the other. Adamantius Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:47:50 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: Re[2]: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts) The Romans used grape must from wine making as bread leavening. This produces a sourer leavening than the ale barm used by the German tribes. If you do use the sediment, try "cleaning" it by mixing it with a cup lukewarm water and a small pince of sugar. Keep the mixture warm and decant the liquor when the yeast grows. Use the liquor for leavening. To be honest, I haven't tried cleaning barm, but I'm working a deal with a local brewer to get ale barm to experiment with cleaning and growing it. Bear Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:07:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Ladypeyton at aol.com Subject: Re: Re: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts) >You might be able to take a solution of water and sugar >(preferably malt extract or actual brewer's wort) and use that trub at >the bottom to create a live yeast starter. When you've got that, you can >skim some of the foamy glop off the TOP, and use that for leavening, >since it's now live yeast. Bear in mind that in period both brewing and >baking were not so much frequent events as constantly ongoing processes, >and the raw materials for one were regularly being produced by the >other. I'm fairly positive that beer yeast used to make bread will not have a taste that you expect. Bear in mind that brewing & vinting yeasts are only distant cousins of bread yeasts today. I tried a wine with a bread yeast as an experiment. Yeuchhhh! I have never tried the reverse but I wouldn't be surprised if the same yeuchhh result was the outcome. If you try it I would be extremely interested in what your results were. Peyton Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:53:16 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: Re: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts) There are many different kinds of yeast, each of which works best for specific purposes. The brewers I know carefully choose their yeasts and sterilize their carboys and equipment to reduce the possibility of introducing wild yeast. For baking I tend to use dry active yeast purchased by the pound and stored in a jar in the refrigerator. Trying to swap one kind of packaged yeast for another usually doesn't work. We know that for bread leavening the Romans used grape must, the Germanic tribes used ale barm, and that ale barm continued to be used into period. Brewing and baking were ongoing activities about the manors and probably remained that way through the period we recreate. They were among the first forms of work to become commercial enterprises as towns and urban centers began growing. Commercial medieval brewers cultivated their yeasts and I expect medieval baker's did the same, although I have found no evidence to support this. We do know that bakers did grow their own yeast in the 18th and 19th centuries. In the first half of this century, home bakers could still buy yeast from the local bakery. The commercial breweries, who had to cultivate yeast anyway, began to cultivate baker's yeast as well, providing a cheaper, better source of yeast to commercial bakers and the general public. The idea of growing yeast from the dregs and using the barm for baking is similar to the practice of cleaning barm. The gathered ale barm is allowed to settle, the liquor is then decanted and added to a warm solution of water and barley malt extract. The mixture is kept warm and the yeast is allowed to grow. The liquor is decanted and used as leavening. The process can be repeated indefinitely, but there are many reports of the yeast culture weakening over time. Unless you are really feeling experimental, starting with an ale barm is probably advised. Ales are top fermenting and are fairly light tasting. The use of ale barm (the foam on top of the ale pot) as bread leavening is documented. The active fermentation is at the top of the pot, so it makes a fast acting yeast (relatively) and it can be dried and stored for periods when no ale is brewing. The ale itself can be used as leavening (as long as it has not been pastuerized) since there is yeast throughout the product, but the action will be slower. Almost all American commercial beers are some form of ale. Beers are bottom fermenting and usually are heavier and more bitter than ale. The taste is carried over into any bake goods. And in any case, collecting beer yeast really would be scraping the bottom of the barrel. If you are interested in further research Stefans Floregium has some good information on yeast and Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery covers all of the ingredients in baking and covers a number of historical practices. Bear Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:30:33 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se> Subject: Baking (was: Re: SC - beer bread recipe (was re: small feasts)) On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Decker, Terry D. wrote: > into period. Brewing and baking were ongoing activities about the > manors and probably remained that way through the period we recreate. Recent historical records (19th century and onwards to modern times in Finland) describe how a continous sourdough culture was maintained in the wooden baking trough. Enough yeast-containing dough always remained in the trough, and subsequently "restarted" each time baking was done. /UlfR - -- Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:29:45 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Manchet (LONG POST) ><< e: adding the salt to the liquid...wouldn't that kill the yeast and >prevent > the bread from rising? >> > >Adding the salt to the recipe would slow down the growth of the yeast. This >is good. Fast growing yeast produces unwanted compounds which could, for >instance, cause a decided bitter flavor in the finished product. > >Ras Good point. Salt is generally added to improve the flavor of the bread, which is why I'll increase the salt the next time I make manchet. It does slow yeast activity and by doing so "sweetens" the bread. The ratios of yeast/salt/flour differ based primarily on the length of the rise. In the case of the recipe for manchet, the major rise of the bread is during baking and the rise times are so short that you really don't worry about fast growing yeast. Standard bread recipes usually call for 1 teaspoon of salt to one or two teaspoons of dry active yeast and about two pounds of flour with a two hour first rise and a one to two hour second rise. The place where the balance gets tricky is when you create a slow rise bread or a starter. Either of these may rise for as much as twelve hours. Some of the recipes I've seen call for tablespoon of salt to a teaspoon of yeast and two pounds of flour. Bear Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:22:18 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Manchet (LONG POST) I learned some things about using yeast in solution over the weekend. Since I normally use dry active yeast, I am unfamiliar with the characteristics of keeping and using yeast in solution. The following is from a message I sent earlier and describes a test I ran this weekend. I learned a little more about yeast as a liquid over the weekend after I read about "cleaning" ale barm. Ale barm which is skimmed from the active fermentation at the top of the ale pot is poured into a gallon of fresh, clean water, stirred and left to sit overnight. This is to remove some of the taste of the bittering agents (like hops) in the ale. No actively fermenting, the yeast settles to the bottom. The water is decanted, except for the pint or so containing the yeast. Since I normal use dry active yeast, and I am unfamiliar with the characteristics of yeast being kept in solution, I decided to experiment. As a test, I decanted 1/2 cup of the yeast solution and added it to 1/2 cup lukewarm water and a pinch of sugar. I then stirred the yeast solution and decanted 1/2 cup into a 1/2 cup lukewarm water with a pinch of sugar. I covered the two test batches and let them stand in the kitchen for several hours. Then I stirred each solution and decanted 1 ounce of the solution into a 1/2 cup of lukewarm water and mixed in 1 cup of flour to make two starters. The remainder yeast solutions were returned to the yeast jar. After four hours, the stirred solution starter was about three times the size of the other. The starters were then used to make bread. They were added to dough mixtures of 2 cups of flour sifted with 1 tablespoon of salt, 2 tablespoons of melted butter, and 2 eggs. Two additional cups of flour were kneaded into each mixture. They were allowed to rise for two hours, then punched down kneaded slightly, formed into four one pound loaves, placed in greased baking tins and allowed to rise for two hours. They were baked at 400 degrees F for 45 minutes. The stirred yeast produced 2 one pound country loaves with superb taste and density. The unstirred yeast produced loaves with half the rise, a doughy texture and a taste which could be kindly described as terrible. This morning I looked at the yeast jar. There were three defined layers. A clear translucent layer at the top, solids at the bottom, and a yellow translucent layer in between. So apparently without active fermentation, the yeast concentrates toward the bottom of the solution and you get the best mix of yeast by stirring before decanting. This also means that the difference in rise between my second and third batches of manchet may be due to a difference in agitation as I decanted the yeast solution. Bear Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:42:22 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: Unit alert! (was: SC - Long-Period food, bread, etc.) Par Leijonhufvud wrote: > > It is two envelopes primarily to get a good rise quickly. > > When you say; "an envelpe of yeast"; just how much yeast is this? If > given the amounts we non-US cooks have some chance of figuring out what > is equivalent, but not when it comes to packages. > > /UlfR > (Who buys yeast is 50 gram cakes) The recipe I based the peri-oid "white" bread recipe I posted called for 2 envelopes of dry yeast, or 1 ounce of fresh "cake" yeast. An envelope of dry yeast in the USA is a fairly standard measurement equivalent to 1/4 ounce per envelope (roughly 1 Tablespoon, if you buy it by bulk in jars or some such. So two envelopes is 1/2 ounce dry yeast, or roughly equivalent to a 1-ounce cake of fresh yeast, in the States, or approximately 1/2 of one of Ulf's 50-gram cakes in Sweden. Now, I should also point out that the recipe I posted was in response to a request from a lady looking for a bread recipe for an event, presumably to be baked in bulk. Yes, an experienced baker can get by with much less yeast, given things like sufficient time to start a sponge the night before, a six-hour rise time, give or take an hour, and a proper oven. And, yes, there are certainly ways to make the recipe produce a loaf that would be closer to some forms of period bread. This was an informed compromise, since I don't yet have a recipe scaled to make fifty loaves using freshly washed ale barm ; ), and I would want to be a bit more experienced in the technique before spending event money on it. Adamantius Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:17:38 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Beer yeast for bread > Over the weekend, my husband bought a version of Red Hook > beer with a German name I don't recall at the moment (hefe something?). > It has active yeast in it and I thought all weekend of how to turn it > into yeast for bread. > > Anne I've estimated that you need about 1 oz. of fresh ale barm to leaven 2 lbs. of flour and I would expect it to take 12 to 24 hours to rise. The leas, having a lot of dormant yeast, aren't as active as fresh barm and need time to grow, which is why it took a couple of days for Charles Ragnar to produce bread. If you want the yeast to work faster, you probably need to cultivate it. If you want to try cultivate the yeast, sterilize a quart cannning jar, lid, and a large metal spoon, dissolve a couple of tablespoons of barley malt into two cups of boiling water, empty the canning jar, put the spoon into it (to dissipate heat) and pour in the boiling water, remove the spoon and cover the jar loosely with the sterile lid. Allow to cool below 100 degrees F. The idea is to kill off the molds and bacteria which can make your barm unusable. Wash off the neck of your beer bottle with hot water. Open the bottle and decant your drink, leaving an ounce or so in the bottle. Swirl it around to stir up the leas, and decant the leas into the solution in your canning jar. Loosely cover the jar. Agitate it mildly every few hours. Give it a few days. Then agitate and decant and ounce or two as needed. At this point the barm can be stored in the refrigerator for several weeks to months. If the barm is cold, agitate it and decant what you need, then allow the decanted solution to come to room temperature before mixing it into your bread making liquor. The process is not as simple as using the leas and there is the problem of infection. I've lost my last two barm experiments to mold. Must be El Nino. BTW, Your idea of using half a bottle as starter for beer bread is a good one. Active yeast should be in suspension in the liquid as well as in the leas. I hadn't thought about using Hefeweiss (I believe that's what you have) as a bread starter, but it would be an interesting experiment. Bear Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:21:27 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: SC - yeast - LONG & OOP While on a trip to New Orleans, I had the opportunity to stop at a bookstore in Shreveport and come up with a couple of treasures. One of these is Tullie's Receipts, a book of recipes assembled from various 19th century sources by the Kitchen Guild of the Tullie Smith House Restoration, Atlanta Historical Society. The recipes are from cookbooks published in the period, Southern manuscript cookbooks written in the period, the odd recipe glossed into a printed cookbook and venerable family recipes of undeterminable age. I found the entries for yeast interesting, and am transcribing a couple of them here. Dry Yeast Put four ounces of hops to six quarts of water; boil it away to three quarts. Strain, boiling hot (as directed for the Soft yeast) upon three pints of flour, a large spoonful of ginger, and another of salt. When it is cool, add a pint of sweet yeast. When it is foaming light, knead in sifted Indian meal enough to make it very stiff. Mould it into loaves, and cut in thin slices, and lay it upon clean boards. Set it where there is a free circulation of air, in the sun. After one side has dried so as to be a little crisped, turn the slices over; and when both sides are dry, break them up into small pieces. It thus dries sooner than if not broken. Set it in the sun two or three days in succession. Stir it often with your hand, so that all parts will be equally exposed to the air. When perfectly dry, put it into a coarse bag and hang it in a dry and cool place. The greatest inconvenience in making this yeast is the danger of cloudy or wet weather. If the day after it is made should not be fair, it will do to set the jar in a cool place, and wait a day or two before putting in the Indian meal. But the best yeast is made when the weather continues clear and dry; and if a little windy, so much the better. To use it, take, for five loaves of bread, one handful; soak it in a very little water until soft, which will be in a few minutes; stir it into the sponge prepared for the bread. This yeast makes less delicate bread than the soft kind, but it is very convenient. Mrs. M.H. Cornelius, The Young Housekeeper's Friend (1859) Baker's Yeast To a gallon of soft water put two quarts of wheat bran, one quart of ground malt, (which may be obtained from a brewery,) and two handfuls of hops. Boil them together for one half an hour. Then strain through a sieve, and let it stand till it is cold; after which put to it two large tea-cups of molasses, and half a pint of strong yeast. Pour it into a stone jug and let it stand uncorked till next morning. Then pour off the thin liquid from the top, and cork the jug tightly. When you are going to use the yeast, if it has been made two or three days, stir in a little pearl-ash dissolved in warm water, allowing a lump the size of a hickory-nut to a pint of yeast. This will correct any tendency to sourness, and make the yeast more brisk. Miss Leslie, Directions for Cookery (1847) Strong yeast is barm from the brew pot. Pearl-ash is cream of tartar. Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:26:04 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Sourdough > Does anyone out there have any experience with making sourdough starter? I > started a batch a week ago and have been diligent about stirring several times > a day. At first (days 1-3) it bubbled up and tried to escape and was real > active and *smelled* like sourdough. But now (the 8th day -- the recipe said > 5-10 days) it just sort of lays there in the bowl. > > Is this normal, or should I start again? Any tips? > > Renata You probable should have sealed it in a jar and put it in the refrigerator about day 5. The starter needs to be used about once a week and you should replace the amount of starter you use with an equal amount of lukewarm water and flour mixed 1:1. To see if your starter is still useable, break 1 cup of starter apart in 1 cup of luke warm water (80 to 90 degrees F). Add a Tablespoon of honey or sugar to the mix and stir to dissolve. Stir in 1 cup of flour sifted with 1 Tablespoon of salt. Stir in more flour until the dough forms a ball (probably 2 cups). Knead on a floured surface, adding flour as necessary until the dough becomes smooth and elastic. Put the dough in a greased bowl, cover and let it rise until doubled (if it doesn't rise much, let it rise for 3 hours). Punch the dough down and form it into loaves (this recipe should make about 2 pounds of bread). Put the loaves on a greased baking sheet or into greased tins. Cover and let rise until doubled (or for 2 hours). Bake in a preheated oven at 375 degrees for about 35 minutes or until the loaves are brown and sound hollow when thumped on the bottom. If the bread is too dense, you've probably killed off most of the yeast in your sourdough starter and need to start over. If you like the results, replenish the starter and store it in a sealed container in your refrigerator. Bear Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 15:44:54 EDT From: Balano1 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Sourdough For the sourdough to get quiet after a fews days is perfectly normal. I grew up with fresh homemade Sourdough bread bread and waffles every weekend when my dad had the time to cook. Have kept my own starter going for years. When you take out half to make your bread or whatever and add it to the other bread ingredients, it will perk right up! BTW, that vinegar like substance is hooch and will become alcoholic in a short time! - Nadene Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 08:14:19 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Sourdough > Just as a little aside, if the liquor of a starter has gone a sort of > orange/brown colour it probably shouldn't be used. I too grew up with > exclusively homemade bread (and had big jars of starter on the counter) > and that was the sage advice my mom gave me a long time ago. Does anyone > know why this is? I've always assumed that there are unwelcome guests in > the starter if this happens. > > Coll It's probably a mold. Normally, you will get green ones, but there are some red ones which attack grain products. My last yeast experiment failed when it became infected with mold. Bear Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:18:03 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Sourdough > Bear says: > >>You probable should have sealed it in a jar and put it in the > refrigerator about day 5.<< > > The recipe says to keep it in the fridge covered with cheesecloth, not > sealed. > > What to do, what to do...?;) > > Renata If you leave it unsealed, be ready to use it every day or two. Refrigeration reduces humidity and it will take the water out of the starter. Covering and refrigeration extends the life of the starter and helps keep out molds and other undesirable critters. If you use it often, you could leave it in a jar on the counter with a loose top. There are a number of comments about the Alaskan "sourdoughs" carrying their sourdough starter in a pocket. Bear Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:00:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se> Subject: RE: SC - Sourdough On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Decker, Terry D. wrote: > If you use it often, you could leave it in a jar on the counter with a loose > top. There are a number of comments about the Alaskan "sourdoughs" carrying > their sourdough starter in a pocket. There is, of course, another method of keeping a sourdough starter. This is to use a wooden baking trough, and letting the remains of the last dought form part of the next. This was done in country-side Finland up until quite recently. I tried a version of this a few months ago. After baking I left the bowl (plastic) stand on the counter until dry. The next weekend I then simply mixed down the crusty remains with some flour and water. And it started to rise after having been left alone overnight, and worked well as a starter. Or you could just freeze it between uses if you aren't going to bake every week. /UlfR - -- Par Leijonhufvud parlei(at)algonet.se Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:00:01 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Sourdough > There is, of course, another method of keeping a sourdough starter. This > is to use a wooden baking through, and letting the remains of the last > dought form part of the next. This was done in country-side Finland up > until quite recently. I tried a version of this a few months ago. After > baking I left the bowl (plastic) stand on the counter until dry. The > next weekend I then simply mixed down the crusty remains with some > flour and water. And it started to rise after having been left alone > overnight, and worked well as a starter. I got to thinking about this the last time you mentioned it. The wooden baking trough works for small batches, but I don't think it is effective for commercial quantities. I expect large batches of bread were boosted with ale barm to get a good rise in a reasonable time. However, let's take your technique a little farther. Create your leaven, let it rise and bubble for a few days, then dry it out. (Most bakers won't do this because reconstituting a leaven in quantity is a pain.) Grind the dried leaven to powder. At that point you have a high yeast content powder which can be added to the dough to leaven it. The powder should retain its potency up to about 120 degrees F and, as long as you kept it dry, could be easily transported in a pouch or a flask. The technique is similar to some stuff I've found in 19th Century recipes. > Or you could just freeze it between uses if you aren't going to bake > every week. Good idea. Bread dough will rise after freezing without a lot of problem, so a leaven should freeze just fine. I would let it come back to room temperature before mixing dough. > /UlfR Bear Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 16:26:08 -0600 From: upsxdls at okway.okstate.edu Subject: Re[2]: SC - Sourdough (getting further and further from topi Ok, Bear, this is exactly what I'm looking for (although I didn't know it until late yesterday afternoon). All of my starter recipes have been "cheaters" (using store-bought yeast to make the starter). Several years ago I stumbled across a bread cookbook entitled "The Garden Way Bread Baker's Almanac" or something like that. It contains several receipes for making sourdough starter without store-bought yeast. If I recall, it even contains some special recipes for unusual diets. I can either post to the listserv, or you may email me privately: upsxdls at okstate.edu Good luck! Leanna McLaren of Sparrowhaven Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:55:08 -0400 From: Nick Sasso <Njs at mccalla.com> Subject: Why Sour? (Re[2]: SC - Sourdough (getting further and further) Ok, Bear, this is exactly what I'm looking for (although I didn't know it until late yesterday afternoon). All of my starter recipes have been "cheaters" (using store-bought yeast to make the starter)............. The things that give sourdough its characteristic tartness (as well as too many carboys of my beer!!) are the wild yeast, acetobaccili (makes acetic acid) and lactobacilli (makes lactic acid) that are in the wandering air about us. There are certainly other things, but healthy yeast from the store will not generally do the same. On a tangential note, there is a yeast strain that will give beer a banana and clove character when used in conjunction with wheat malt. Might ber a hoot to try in bread......or a starter...........(weihenstephan or wheat beer yeast). niccolo difrancesco Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:59:59 -0400 From: "Alma Johnson" <chickengoddess at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: Yeast >I got a coupon for a free strip of Rapid-Rise yeast and it got me >wondering. I was hoping Adamantius or Bear or someone could answer this. >What exactly is rapid-rise yeast? What do they do to it to make it rise >faster? To the best of my knowledge, there are 2 differences. One is the strain of yeast. Some are more vigorous than others, and just about every yeast manufacturer has it's own, which is why you'll find that the "same" yeast from different companies will act differently. Next is the process by which the yeast is deactivated, to keep it dormant till you wake it up when _you're_ ready for it to work. The process often used is a heat drying process. This does, however, kill off some of the yeast. Instant yeast is dried at lower temps than active dry, killing fewer yeasties in the process, so you get a faster start, and generally more bang for your buck. Rhiannon Cathaoir-mor Not Adamantius, nor Bear, but a baking freak, nevertheless. Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:16:46 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Yeast Sigh. From http://www.breadworld.com/products/ , The Fleischmann's Yeast website: "Fleischmann's Active Dry yeast: This yeast is the original active dry yeast product. It is highly stable and known for its consistent performance and works best when dissolved in water prior to mixing. Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast comes in two types of packaging: a strip of three 1/4-oz packets and a 4-oz glass jar. " "Fleischmann's Rapid Rise Yeast: This is an instant active dry yeast. It is a highly active strain that can be mixed directly with dry ingredients before use. Since the yeast does not need to be dissolved first and only one rise is required, the process of baking is significantly shortened. Fleischmann's Rapid Rise Yeast is available in a strip of three 1/4-oz packets. " "DESCRIPTION: a finely granulated, highly active instant dry yeast that hydrates and activates quickly does not need to be dissolved before using--best when mixed directly into dry ingredients HISTORY: Introduced in 1984 AVAILABLE FORM: Strips of three 1/4-oz packages DIETARY CONCERNS: The yeast is permitted for use in gluten-free, lactose-free, corn-free, soy-free, sugar-free, no-MSG and vegetarian diets. EQUIVALENTS: One 1/4-oz package = 2 1/4 teaspoons dry yeast SUBSTITUTIONS: One 1/4-oz package can be substituted for, or used in place of the following: 0.6-oz cake of Fresh Active Yeast Can also be used interchangeably (equal parts) with: Active Dry, Bread Machine or other instant yeast There is more info on the Fleischmann's site. Cindy/Sincgiefu Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:44:28 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Re: Kvass and yeasties > Although none of my sources are good "period" sources, I would assume > (yes, I know the dangers) that wild yeasties have been around for a very > long time. Yeasts are one of the older lifeforms on the planet. They were first used to leaven bread in Egypt about 5000 years ago and were used prior to that to make beer. > You can make bread by just putting flour and water (a little > sugar or honey helps) in a container and leaving it open, or preferably > covered with thin cheesecloth. Except in a sterilized environment, yeast spores appear to be ubiquitous. Flour contains yeast spores which accumulated on the wheat and passed through the milling process. So, you can mix flour and water together in a covered container and still get fermentation. > Also, you never > know what types of yeasts you are collecting and the flavors they create > can be unpredicatable. Sometimes new and exciting, othertimes not so > nice. Many yeasts appear to be localized, so that some very fine flavors can only be created in a small geographic area. The chief problem with collecting wild yeast is that you also collect molds. This has little effect on a flour and water paste, but as you increase the sugar content of the mix, molds are more likely to form. I've lost a couple yeast experiments this way. > I know that I have seen statements about brewing mead done this way in > period, though I can't tell you the books and sources offhand. I am > sure that adding some already baked bread or fermented but not baked > dough to a brewing mixture would be a faster and more predicatable way > to get your brew a-bubbling. But there I go making the "they could have > done it in period" assumption that I am so well known for. > :-) > > -Failenn Actually, I think it may have originated as a way to keep from wasting stale bread, although Adamantius does point out the Egyptians produced a special bread for brewing. Yeast dies at about 140 degrees F, so baked bread contains no yeast internally. The Sumerians used a barley flat bread augmented with crushed barley for their brewing. In period, it would be more common to leaven your dough from the ale pot rather than boost your brew with dough, although I wouldn't put it past some crazy brewer who had the ale pot die. Bear Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:13:32 -0600 From: upsxdls at okway.okstate.edu Subject: SC - Sourdough starters The following starters come from "The Garden Way Bread Book: A Baker's Almanac" by Ellen Foscue Johnson. Garden Way Publishing. Charlotte, VT 05445 #1 Flourless Potato Starter 3 medium potatoes 4 cups water 1 tablespoon dry yeast 3 tablespoons sugar or honey Cook potatoes in water until soft. Drain, saving the water. Mash the potatoes, or puree in a blender When the cooking water has cooled to lukewarm, put it in a large glass, plastic or crockery bowl. Add the other ingredients, including the mashed potatoes. Stir to mix. Cover with a towel, and let it sit in a warm place, not over 90 degrees, for two days or longer. When the mixture is frothy and smells sour, place in a covered container and store in the refrigerator. #2 - Potato Water Starter 1 tablespoon dry yeast 2 teaspoons sugar 2 cups warm water in which potatoes have been cooked 2 additional cups water 2 cups unbleached white flour Dissolve the yeast and sugar in the warm potato water. Put in a glass, plastic, or crockery bowl; cover with towel and let it sit in a warm place for 48 hours. At the end of this time stir in 2 cups warm water and 2 cups flour. Cover. Let it stand overnight or longer, until the whole mixture is frothy and smells sour. Make sure your bowl is large enough to all for expansion. STore in a covered jar in the refrigerator. #3 - Milk Starter without Yeast 3 cups milk, whole or skim 2 cups unbleached white flour. Let the milk stand in a glass, plastic or crockery bowl, covered, twenty-four hours. Stir in the flour, cover and let stand for several days in a warm place. When the mixture is bubbly and smells sour, store in a covered jar in the refrigerator. For a little extra insurance (not for the purist), add one tablespoon sugar and on-half tablespoon dry yeast with the flour. #4 - Raw potato starter without yeast 1 cup warm water 1 teaspoon honey 1 cup unbleached white flour 1 cup raw, peeled, grated potato (about one medium large potato) Combine all ingredients in a plastic, glass or crockery bowl. Cover with towel and let sit in a warm place for several days, until foamy and soured. Don't get impatient; it may take three to seven days. Store in a covered jar in the refrigerator. #5 - Honey starter with yeast 1 tablespoon dry yeast 2 tablespoons honey 2 cups warm water 2 cups unbleached white flour Dissolve the yeast and honey in the water in a glass, plastic or crockery bowl. Stir in the flour. Cover with a towel and lst sit in a warm place for several days or until foamy and soured. Store in a covered jar in the refrigerator. These sour dough starters tend to foam and expand as the wild yeast beasties do their thing. I recall I have used the raw potato starter with good results, but when my Herman died, I went to the health food store ad purchased "sourdough starter in a packet." Now, I guess I'll try to bring another Herman to life. Hope these recipes help. Leanna of Sparrowhaven (upsxdls at okstate.edu) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:32:25 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - oh-oh...Totally OOP > Hi there, Bread virgin here... > > I am atempting to make Sticky Buns. In the recipe it specifically calls for > "Robin Hood SAF Yeast". So off I went shopping this a.m. and couldn't find > this puppy anywhere to save my life. What I did get was Fleishmanns Active > Yeast. > > Now, in pre-reading the recipe it states that I include the yeast right in > with the flour, sugar, salt in a large bowl????? Add milk, butter and egg, > knead and place in a greased bowl. And then let it stand for 1.25 hours. > > Okay, I may have never baked real bread since I was a kid but I have used > yeast in the past. Don't you have to start it with sugar and water? Is SAF > yeast something entirely different? Will putting the Fleishmanns Active > Yeast in place of the other screw this up? > > Micaylah I don't know diddly about RH SAF Yeast, but from the way the recipe is written, it calls for a dry active yeast. Dry active yeast can be added directly to the dry ingredients and is supposed to activate when the liquid dissolves it. This is sometimes done to keep the yeast from losing potency when quickly blended with hot or cold liquids. Only problem, you don't know if the yeast has activated until the dough doesn't rise. These days, I cheat and proof the yeast with a little water and pinch of sugar and stir it into the dry ingredients before adding the liquids. You really don't need the sugar, but it activates the yeast faster and better. Bear Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:15:56 EDT From: SigridPW at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: proofing yeast << Now, in pre-reading the recipe it states that I include the yeast right in with the flour, sugar, salt in a large bowl????? Add milk, butter and egg, knead and place in a greased bowl. >> I've baked bread for years, and you may rest assured, if you follow the recipe as it is written, it will be fine. Dissolving yeast in warm water or milk mixed with sugar (or "proofing" as it is called) is not necessary. Just be sure the milk you use is heated till warm and double check your foil packet of yeast to be sure it is not "expired". On some things that date is useless, but on yeast it is dead serious! A day later and your recipe will indoubtedly be flat. Happy baking! Lady Madeleine de la Chatte Enfumee Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:10:50 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: Re[2]: SC - oh-oh...Totally OOP > Bear, Micaylah: Watch the expiration dates on your yeast packets, they're > fairly accurate. I recently used up my last dab of yeast (expired 3 mos > ago) and opened a new jar. The first batch did rise (finally), but not as > rapidly as the fresh yeast. > Leanna of Sparrowhaven I buy in bulk and keep the yeast in a jar in the refrigerator. Kept cool, dry active yeast will keep indefinitely. Liquid yeasts and compressed yeast have a shorter shelf life. I do tend to proof the yeast, so that I don't get caught by surprise. Bear Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:47:16 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - once again bread > But I have a question...I love making sour dough bread.....but to me it is > never sour enough....can it be made sourer ? is that the proper way to say > it even? > Stacie The best sourdoughs are produced by a symbiotic reaction between Candida milleri, a strain of Saccharomyces exiguus, and Lactobacillus sanfrancisco. The reaction does not occur with S. cerevisiae (regular bread yeast). C. milleri strengthens the gluten and L. sanfrancisco improves the fermentation of the maltose and provides the characteristic sourness. Unfortunately, most of us are not in San Franciso where this combination is readily available. To make a sourdough starter, in a bowl, mix 2 cups of flour with one cup of water. Place the bowl on the counter and wait. It does not matter whether the bowl is covered or uncovered. The water and the flour will activate a natural amylase reaction to convert starch into sugar. The yeasts present in the flour will use the sugar to ferment the dough and create a sourdough. Exposing the starter to the air increases the probability of gathering wild yeasts and lactobacilli in the starter. None of this insures a good starter or decent sourdough. That is the luck of the draw. If you have problems with bugs, tape a couple layers of cheese cloth over the starter bowl. If it is sealed to the sides of the bowl, it will keep most bugs out, but let the yeasty beasties in. In my opinion, most recipes for sourdough starter are too complex and depend on S. cerevisiae to boost them, which defeats the idea of wild yeast and lactobacillus. I am considering trying a little sour cream or buttermilk to initially boost the lactobacilli in the starter, but this introduces other organic compounds which may be susceptible to molds and other infections. If you have a starter. Try leaving it on the counter and feeding it twice a day with 1/4 cup of water and 1/2 cup of flour. Use a big bowl, and be ready to bake two or three times a week. Keeping the starter on the counter makes it more active than keeping it in the refrigerator and it needs to be fed regularly to keep it from dying. If the bread still isn't sour enough, try baking bread made with starter, water, flour and salt. Leave out the shortenings, the sweeteners, and the yeast. Your first rise will likely take 8 to 12 hours. Your second rise will take 1 to 2 hours. Bear Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:34:28 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - once again bread > > The reaction does not occur with S. cerevisiae (regular bread yeast). > > Whose name, ironically, suggests it is, or was, in fact a brewer's > yeast, which might help account for the phenomenon. > > Adamantius Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the yeast found in ale barm. Today's baker's yeast is a variant of S. cerevisiae, so if you use compressed yeast or dry active yeast to leaven your bread, you are using the equivalent of ale barm. Most, if not all, of the top fermenting brewer's yeasts are variants of S. cerevisiae. Just to add to the confusion, variants of S. cerevisiae have been bred to be bottom fermenting and these are replacing the variants of S. carlsbergensis which were previously used in beer making. The symbiosis between C. milleri and L.sanfrancisco occurs because C. milleri can not use maltose, but can use all of the other sugars released by the amylase reaction. This leaves the maltose free to be used by L. sanfrancisco. Additionally, C. milleri is more resistant to the acidic environment created by the lactobacilli than many other yeasts. This fortuitous combination optomizes fermentation and sourness. Apparently, S. cerevisiae is a little wimpy in high acid environments. Bear Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 08:58:05 -0600 (CST) From: Lorine S Horvath <lhorvath at plains.NoDak.edu> To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: Bread & Soup In "Food and Drink in Anglo-Saxon England" Ann Hagen discusses drying yeast by dipping a thread into the yeasty mixture which settles to the bottom when making mead or beer... Something like making candles by dipping. My impression was that this would result in something very like the cakes of yeast used today, which give results not too different from the packets... Fiona nicAoidh Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Re: SC - Trenchers-Long >Here is the Wroclaw Trencher receipe > ... 2 cups thick beer >1 cup active beer barm or 1/2 oz. active dry yeast ... Unless this is a late period recipe (and probably even if it is), I would assume that both the beer and the barm are ale and not lager beer. Ale yeast is top-fermenting, which means that it produces enough gas to lift it to the top. Lager yeast would be less useful as a leavening. Lager is also supposed to have been made only in Bohemia until fairly late in the SCA period. Modern bread yeasts are different varieties of the same species as ale yeast. In period, the same yeast was used for both. Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:03:17 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - OOP - Sucess!! Interesting recipe. You might want to dissolve a pinch of sugar in the water before adding the yeast to help it along. No need to stir the yeast in, just sprinkle it on the water and let it dissolve. It will sink to the bottom, then you'll start getting a yeast colored scum on the surface. This is called creaming the yeast. The more active the yeast, the more scum. The water should be about 90 F. Above 110 F inhibits activation and begins killing the yeast. A teaspoon of yeast is approximately 1 package. I buy baker's yeast in bulk from a healthfood store rather than the grocery for about 1/3 of the grocery price. Baker's supply houses are also a good place to get bulk yeast (usually sold in 2 lb bags). Keep your excess yeast in a jar in the refrigerator. As for giving away bread, I tend to bake 4 to 8 loaves at a time and spread the wealth around. There are four period bread recipes from the European corpus and I believe you will find all of them in Stefan's Florilegium. If you can't locate them, let me know and I'll locate and send you a copy of a previous posting. Bear Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:25:44 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - re: SC-OOP - Sucess! And it came to pass on 19 Feb 00,, that Marian Deborah Rosenberg wrote: >Brighid wrote: >> When you say that you proofed your yeast... did you actually see signs of >>life before you continued on? After ten minutes in warm water, the yeast >> should be foaming noticeably. > I can say for certain that it was warm in the kitchen as the entire > apartment is nice and cozy warm (being on the third floor and having a > nicely overheated office on the first floor). I can't say for certain > about much else as I was working with an ear infection that wouldn't let > me sleep, and then working with an ear infection that wanted to go to > sleep NOW halfway through my getting something started. --- If the kitchen was warm, but you didn't get risen dough in 6 hours, then you probably had some dead yeast. The next time you bake, look carefully for signs of life when you proof your yeast. If you don't see foaming, discard the yeast/water mixture and start over with fresh yeast. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 22:25:44 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: RE: SC - OOP - Sucess!! And it came to pass on 19 Feb 00,, that Decker, Terry D. wrote: > A teaspoon of yeast is approximately 1 package. I thought a package was about 2-1/4 teaspoons -- a short tablespoon. > I buy baker's yeast in > bulk from a healthfood store rather than the grocery for anbout 1/3 of the > grocery price. Baker's supply houses are also a good place to get bulk > yeast (usually sold in 2 lb bags). Keep your excess yeast in a jar in the > refrigerator. [snip] > Bear I buy my yeast in 2-pound bags at Costco. I keep one working container in the fridge, and the rest (in tightly-sealed plastic containers) in the freezer. Lasts for about a year. Sometimes the tail-end of the bag dies off before I can use it, but it's still much more cost-effective than the little envelopes, or even the little jars. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:15:38 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - OOP - Sucess!! > And it came to pass on 19 Feb 00,, that Decker, Terry D. wrote: > > A teaspoon of yeast is approximately 1 package. > > I thought a package was about 2-1/4 teaspoons -- a short tablespoon. > > Lady Brighid ni Chiarain > Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) > mka Robin Carroll-Mann The yeast they sell in strips of three packages used to be 1/4 oz. per package. 1/4 oz of granulated dry active yeast is approximately 1 slightly rounded teaspoon. Two packages will give you a short tablespoon. Bear Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:29:53 -0700 From: "Browning, Susan W." <bsusan at corp.earthlink.net> Subject: RE: SC - sourdough experiment #1 alternate method I believe King Arthur Flour sells Lactobacillus SF. http://kingarthurflour.com Eleanor Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:38:36 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - sourdough experiment #1 alternate method > The starter sponge that I use isn't the San Francisco > lactobacillus. But it does have a strong sour taste. > > My recipe is two cups of flour and one cup of flat > beer. I usually use rye flour and, if I am fortunate, > I will use home brewed beer. It takes about three > days to start to bubble. I usually keep it on the > counter next to the oven. I personally think that the > introduction of beer gives the bread a closer flavor > to breads that were baked using barm. > > Huette Rather than beer, I would suggest unhopped brown ale, but let's not quibble, I've used beer for flavoring. A rye based starter is produced by different strains of yeast and lactobacillus than a wheat based starter and is generally sourer than wheat based starters. A point to remember is that the breads made with barm are primarily a northern European thing in period although Gothic bakers brought the technique to Rome in the 1st Century BCE. Most southern European bakers used leavens. In France, the use of ale barm was considered bad practice. At some point using anything other than a levain was prohibited by law and remained that way until some time in the 19th Century, if I remember the dates, when the prohibtion was lifted so Parisian bakers could produce some of their highly aerated breads. If you have a good starter, you might consider drying some of it and wrapping it in foil to give to people who are interested in trying it. Bear Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:28:39 EDT From: CBlackwill at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - finally! A baking success! and re: honey butter kelan at mindspring.com writes: > Seriously does yeast just not like some people? Is bread like gardening? > I don't think I'm the only one who can't get a ball of dough to do anything > but mock my wishes for it to rise. Yeast just doesn't like _you_! :) Seriously...what temperature are you trying to proof your b