rice-msg - 11/22/07 Medieval rice and rice dishes. Recipes. NOTE: See also these files: grains-msg, frumenty-msg, beans-msg, bread-msg, broths-msg, breakfast-msg, flour-msg, beer-msg, nuts-msg, pasta-msg, soup-msg, cookng-grains-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Re: Judging cooking - too much mint! << perfumed jasmine rice >> PERFUMED JASMINE RICE?.....hmmmmmm> I want the recipe, please? <beg, grovel, beg, kiss butt, hug, grovel, beg,beg> It's a marketing slogan.... its as simple as pie. Or, what do you serve for a starch to guests, when the potatoes have grown sprouts without asking you first? You improvise. If I recall correctly, I sauted some chopped onion in white wine at the bottom of a saucepan, with some black pepper. I brewed about a pint of jasmine tea (straight flowers, no black tea added) until it was quite strong. I mixed it with water to the correct amount for the rice, and cooked. When there was not much water left in the pot, I added a small handful of frozen peas. And finished. It was very delicate, and had a light flavor and a pale yellow color. Which probably wouldn't have shown except for the contrast with the green peas. I might consider strengthening the color with a few saffron threads in the future, and if I'd had scallions, I would have used those instead. This sort of thing grew out of a game my wife and I would play when the lines were long in the grocery. We'd stare into other people's grocery carts, and try to make dinner out of what they had bought (plus the content of our larder). It can be a lot of fun. Oh, a generic rice cookery tip. My wife taught me this one: when the rice is just about out of water, the grains can still be moist. But if you drive the water out with heat, you can easily scorch the bottom layer of rice. She turns the pan off, takes it off the heat, and places a layer of paper towel over the top, and replaces the lid. Wait a few minutes. As the steam rises, it gets trapped in the paper towel, and the remaining grains dry out naturally. It makes for a very fluffy rice. Tibor (2.5 cups water to 1 cup brown, 2 cups water to 1 cup white) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 14:01:53 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - OK - here's a kind of anal question... rebecca tants wrote: > It talks about rice all over the place, so I'll be using it. I've > read the discussions on the rialto archive about brown vs white rice. > But I haven't seen anything about short grain vs long grain or the > different varieties available these days. Which is most appropriate? > (Or have I lost what was left of my sanity and am now going WAY overboard?) > > Ruadh This topic is only as overboard as you want it to be...certainly if you want to get as close as you can to the food the author of the book is talking about, it should be an issue, if only a tangential one. I think short-grain rice is the way to go. Long-grain rice was an import from Asia, while short-grain rice was grown in places like Spain, Greece, and Italy, and was presumably more readily available. Also, it seems to me, at a quick glance, to be often ground to meal, in which case it wouldn't matter. I could be wrong, though. Adamantius Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:43:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: SC - Rice varieties << if someone is going to look close enough to nit-pick over long or short grain rice >> If I may....long-grain, medium-grain and short-grain rice all have different characteristics when cooked. Long grain usually cooks into seperate grains. Medium grain tends to hold together a bit more and short grain (or sticky rice) is just that. IMO, it is very important from a cooks perspective to distinguish between the various types of rice when choosing a rice for a recipe. Choosing the right type of rice for a particular dish can very much determine the quaility of a particular recipe. Lord Ras ( lover of rice, all types and all varieties, each in their proper place. :-)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:17:15 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se> Subject: Re: Wild rice (was: SC - Newcomers Redaction) On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Phyllis Spurr wrote: > I didn't know this. Boy every day I learn something new on this list. Actually you might just have confused two different things in your terminology (I just saw your othr post with the redaction). Wild and brown rice is not the same thing. Brown rice: the health food stuff. Basically a "unhusked" regular rice. The price is about the same as regular rice, perhaps a bit higher. Brownish in color, and has, in my opinion, much more character than most regular white rice. Wild rice: a grain that grows in some lakes in the Great Lakes region. It is longish grains, black with some of the white interior showing through. Price is _high_ due to the fact that it is harvested from a wild crop. The package should say something about indians on it ;-) > > Personally I would have considerd using "aviori" style rice, but I have > > no idea if this kind was widely available in Europe in our period, if at > > all. Anyone? > > What is "aviori" style rice. My knowledge is sadly lacking on rice, > personally, I dislike rice. Comes from "having" to eat it! Basically a cross between brown and white rice (it's about processing, not species difference, but the effect is like a hybrid). More acceptable to the "white rice" crowd, but still has much more of the nutrients left (white rice is not a good idea, nutritionally speaking). As I stated earlier I would love to hear someone (with better knowledge than I have) tell us about what kinds of rice were available where and when. Probably thesis level stuff, though, unless it has already been done. /UlfR - -- Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:15:37 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Polished Rice Rice was imported into the Caribbean on Columbus' second voyage. There are native varieties (both long and short grain) scattered across both the New and Old Worlds. Reay Tannehill in Food in History suggests that rice appears across a broad belt in the regions which formed Gondwanaland. I haven't tried to chase the paleobiology on that one, it's worse than beans. Bear Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Polished Rice Rice was a staple crop during the Middle ages. You are correct about it being succesfully grown in America rather later. I would add the the introduction of a crop into America has little bearing on it's widespread use in the Old World during the M.A. Some crops now currently popular were little known before the 1950's in America, such as Eggplant and lentils which were widely grown and used in the M.A. Rice flour is nearly universal in period cookery books. Rice itself was experimentally grown is such places as France as early as the mid-1300's. All in all<IMO, it would be safe to say that rice was easily obtained and almost universally used by the gentry and noblemen. So far as to it's use among the peasants, I have no information and since SCAdians are considered noblemen , it's unavailability to peasants if such were the case is a moot point when it comes to feast planning. :-) Ras Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:39:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: SC - Newcomers Redaction Old note: Looking back at it, I'm not so sure that I got the initial quantity of water correct from memory... True. It's 2:1 water to rice, more if the rice is brown rice. (This varies depending upon desired result, of course. Sticky rice desired? More water. Crunchier? Less water. But 1:1, as you listed, was not quite right.) Tibor Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 02:09:27 -0400 From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - Apples > Where do you get rice flour? I've looked for it for a while but haven't > found any yet. You'd think this close to Philly they'd have decent > stores, but I haven't found many. Any form of frozen, prepared or > convenience food you could imagine, yes, but I can only find even bread > flour on occasion and only at some stores! I did find rye flour once, > but that's it. > > Julleran rice flour- minute rice, grind into powder in a blender. margali Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:07:50 -0400 (EDT) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Rice Flour-source << Where do you get rice flour? >> Any market that carries Goya products should have rice flour (and wheat starch also). Around here ( N.E. Pa) both Giant and Wegman's carry it. Also any good health food store should have or have ready access to it. Ras Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 08:54:24 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Apples >Where do you get rice flour? > >Julleran I can get it through Albertson's (was SkaggAlbertson's) here in Oklahoma, so it is carried by some chain groceries. I can't get it at Homeland (Safeway replacement). A local health food store carries some. Bakery supply stores should have it since it is used as a wheat flour supplement in baking fine cakes. Bon Chance Bear Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:06:03 -0400 From: John and Barbara Enloe <jbenloe at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: SC - Apples > Where do you get rice flour? > Julleran Might I suggest you try an Oriental food store? That's where I got my last bag. Happy hunting. Ania Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:01:58 EST From: kathe1 at juno.com (Kathleen M Everitt) Subject: SC - Rice Flour I found rice flour today! You'll never guess where. K-Mart!! Julleran, who was looking for jeans at the time Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:35:16 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Documentation? Liberties? <snip> A further point. If you decide to limit yourself to recipes you know are period, you then have a stronger incentive to go looking. At the feast we just did, my lady wife cooked a rice dish which was good, was period, and was less like something a modern person would invent than saffron rice is. - --- Ryse of Fische Daye 1/2 per table Curye on Inglysch p. 127 (Forme of Cury no. 129) Blaunche almaundes & grynde hem, & drawe hem vp wyt watur. Weshce i ryse clene, & do erto sugur roche and salt: let hyt be stondyng. Frye almaundes browne, & floriche hyt erwyt, or wyt sugur. 4 c almond milk from: 2 c rice 3 oz slivered almonds for frying 7 oz almonds 2 T sugar 1 T sugar sprinkled on top enough water to make 4 c milk 1 t salt 1 t oil Make almond milk. Add rice to almond milk, also sugar and salt, bring to a boil and simmer covered 20 minutes; let stand 25 minutes. Lightly grease frying pan with oil and put in almonds, cook while stirring for 5 minutes at low to moderate heat. Sprinkle almonds and extra sugar on rice and serve. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:26:50 +1100 (EST) From: Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au> Subject: RE: SC - Documentation? Liberties? > It seems to me that there is a recipe for chicken and rice which uses > saffron for coloring. I'll see if I can locate it. > > Bear Almond milk, rice flour, capon meat. Almonds, or Pistachios+cloves Saffron MS B Two Anglo Norman Culinary collections (14C?) Charles Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:48:40 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Documentation? Liberties? In Taillevent (14th century French), there is a recipe for saffron rice: Decorated rice for a meat day Pick over the rice, wash it very well in hot water, dry it near the fire, and cook it in simmering cow's milk. Crush some saffron (for reddening it), steep it in your milk, and add stock from the pot. (This is from a translation by James Prescott, published by the Alfarhaugr Publishing Society) Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:02:22 -0800 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Risotto? > Hello, all. I am wondering if anyone has come across a period recipe for > Risotto or a Risotto-like dish. It occured to me this would be great event > food, espescially since it's cheap, and leftovers can be made into Rice > Cakes for frying in the morning (yum!). Risotto with fresh herbs smells so > fragrant cooking as the stock is ladled in slowly and stirred, stirred, > stirred, that it draws crowds to the kitchen area. I try to keep the food > relatively period when I go to camping events and am just cooking for family > and friends. I really enjoy making Risotto. It's a sensual experience! > > There does not seem to be anything resembling Risotto in my English/French > collection, but that does not surprise me very much. Does anyone have a > Southern European source with something like this in it? I suppose the > ingredients would be part of the clue: Rice, olive oil or butter, stock, > herbs or spices, a little cheese added at the end. Or perhaps this is > another no brainer that wouldn't have been written down? > > Aoife Hi all from Anne-Marie our local guild (specifically Eden, who does not appear on this list) did a fair amount of digging for risotto-like units. Like you, we had a feast that a risotto dish would have fit perfectly. What Eden found was that there was indeed a dish that resembled risotto in its preparation and texture, but contained so much cheese it was more a rendition of macaroni and cheese in taste. Yum!!!! Most creamy and flavorful and wonderful stuff. We will be fine tuning it at the reconstruction meeting Wednesday and I will ask if I can post the results. We found no examples like the modern risotto flavored with herbs, or mushrooms or anything like that. Just the oh-so-cheesy one. Yum! - --AM Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:19:51 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Risotto? And it came to pass on 24 Feb 98, that L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote: > Hello, all. I am wondering if anyone has come across a period recipe > for Risotto or a Risotto-like dish. [snip] > Does anyone have a Southern European source with something like this > in it? I suppose the ingredients would be part of the clue: Rice, > olive oil or butter, stock, herbs or spices, a little cheese added > at the end. Or perhaps this is another no brainer that wouldn't > have been written down? > > Aoife The two Spanish recipes I have do not really resemble your description of risotto, but I will post them anyway, as they may be of interest. Source: Libro de Guisados, 1529 57. ARROZ CON CALDO DE CARNE -- Rice with Meat Broth You must take rice and wash it with cold water or tepid water three or four times, and when it is well washed set it to dry on a wooden chopping block in the sun, and if there is none, near the fire, and when it is dry clean it well of the stones and filth; then put a very clean pot on the fire with meat broth, which is fatty and well salted, and put it on the fire, and when the broth begins to boil, cast the rice in the pot and when the rice is more than half cooked, cast in goat or sheep milk, and for lack of these cast in almond milk, and cook it all in the pot, stirring it from time to time with a ladle so that it does not stick to the pot or burn, and when it is cooked remove it from the fire and put the well-covered pot inside a basket [espuerta] or basket [cesta] of [salvados?] and leave it there to rest for a while, which should be for the space of an hour or at least half; then take egg yolks and beat them well when you wish to prepare dishes, and cast them in the pot, mixing them with the rice, and giving them a few turns with the ladle, after preparing dishes, and cast upon each one sugar and cinnamon. But note one thing, as I said in the chapter on semolina: that in none of these pottages, such as rice, semolina, barley and fideos, when cooked with meat broth, is it necessary to put in any kind of milk; but everything is in [accord with] the appetites of the men who eat it, and with this pottage there is no need to cast sugar upon the dishes; however sugar never harms the food, and the excellence is in this; that each one does according to his taste. 58. ARROZ EN CAZUELA AL HORNO -- Casserole Rice in the Oven Clean the rice well of stones and filth, and wash it with two or three [changes of] cold water and then with hot water, and after it is well washed set it to dry on a wooden chopping block in the sun or by the heat of the fire, and when it is dry, clean it again in such a manner that it is very clean, then take a very clean cazuela and cast in good meat broth which is fatty and set it to boil on the fire, and when it begins to boil put in two or three threads of saffron so that the broth becomes nicely yellow, and when the broth is nicely yellow, cast in the rice bit by bit, stirring it with a stick or with a ladle, and when the rice is in the cazuela cast in whatever quantity of broth that seems necessary to you to so that it cooks no more, and taste it to see that it is well salted and fatty, and put it to cook in the oven, and a little before it finishes cooking remove it from the oven and cast some whole fresh egg yolks over the rice, and then return the cazuela to the oven to finish cooking, and it is cooked when you see that the rice has made a good crust on top, and then prepare dishes, and in each one put one or two of the egg yolks which were upon the rice; and if by chance the oven was not prepared, put the cazuela on a coal fire and put an iron lid full of embers on it, and in this manner it will come out of there as if it had been cooked in the oven and perhaps better because it remains nearer for sampling: and this is good rice. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:15:14 -0000 From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> Subject: RE: SC - Risotto? I had a look in Scully 'Early French Cookery' and found Ris engoule, attributed to Viandier (Sass attributes something very similar to Forme of Cury) His redaction says 1 cup uncooked rice 1/4 tsp saffron 1 cup hot milk 1 cup hot beef bouillon 2 tbsp beef grease or butter Rinse rice, dissolve saffron in hot milk, stir in rice. Add beef boullion and grease, cover and cook on low heat until liquid is absorbed and rice is cooked. Add more bouillon during cooking if necessary. For a fast day version use almond milk instead of milk and beef bouillon and omit grease For a sweet version use almond milk, garnish with pomegranate seeds, candied orange peel or sliced browned almonds. Given so many dishes using colour contrasts on the same basic recipe, would it be unreasonable to deduce a white version (without saffron, with almond milk) and a green version (no saffron, lots of herbs) served with this? Or even a black version - with blood? I haven't found anything involving lots of cheese and would be interested to see it. Which raises the question of what sort of rice was used in the medieval period - has anyone any info? Given that rice used in Northern Europe came from the Po valley (Lombardy), which now produces short grain, risotto rice, is it reasonable to assume that sort of rice was grown there then? I find the recipes don't work so well with long grain rice, which now comes from India and America. Any thoughts? Caroline Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:36:49 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - help? At 2:03 PM -0700 4/2/98, Sabia wrote: >... Also is there a documented receipe for saffron rice? I don't know of any saffron rice recipes; my favorite period rice recipe is Ryse of Fische Daye Curye on Inglysch p. 127 (Forme of Cury no. 129) Blaunche almaundes & grynde hem, & drawe hem vp wyt watur. Weshce i ryse clene, & do erto sugur roche and salt: let hyt be stondyng. Frye almaundes browne, & floriche hyt erwyt, or wyt sugur. [end of original] 4 c almond milk from: 7 oz almonds enough water to make 4 c of milk 2 c rice 2 T sugar 1 t salt 3 oz slivered almonds for frying 1 T sugar sprinkled on top Make almond milk. Add rice to almond milk, also sugar and salt, bring to a boil and simmer covered 20 minutes; let stand 25 minutes. Lightly grease frying pan with oil and put in almonds, cook while stirring for 5 minutes at low to moderate heat. Sprinkle almonds and extra sugar on rice and serve. [from the _Miscellany_] Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:35:45 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Rice in period? IIRC, the Arabs introduced rice from India to Spain, Cyprus and Sicily. The initial conquests in India were in 712. Spain was invaded in 711. Cyprus was taken around 683. And Sicily was taken in the 9th Century. So rice was likely introduced to Spain and Cyprus early in the 8th Century and Sicily some time in the 9th Century. There was an abortive attempt to grow rice in Southern France late in period. Rice was a secondary grain because it was not used to make bread and most of Europe had to import it. Bear Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:06:52 -0700 From: "April Abbott" <orlando at rogues.net> Subject: Re: SC - Rice in period? > The thread "A Dilemma on what to cook for Dinner-HELP!" and the interesting > sub-thread on period polenta got me thinking about another now common grain > -- RICE. > > When did rice enter the cuisines of "SCA period" places? As a Middle > Eastern persona, at what time would i be able to eat rice? When did rice > begin to be eaten in Europe? I would assume Italy first, because of the > connextion with the Near East, but i don't really know any of the history? Well, I'm looking through my copy of Platina's De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine (the Mary Ella Milham translation) and I see Catalan Blancmange (using rice flour,) Rice in Whatever Broth You Want, Rice in Almonds, another recipe for Catalan Blancmange (again using rice flour,) Rice Pie, Millet Pie (which can also be done with rice,) Date Pie (which has rice in it,) White Pie (uses well-cooked rice and the juice of almost cooked rice,) Rice Fritters, another recipe for Rice Fritters, Fritters in the Form of Fish (made of rice.) The description of rice refers the ancient spelling, and a footnote metions reference to rice in Celsus. Rice seems to be safely within period for Italy, at least. Me speculating here.... I belive arborio rice is currently grown in the Po river valley in Italy. Is it a native species there? Perhaps rice didn't have to be imported from anywhere else. - -Sofonisba Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:17:22 -0500 From: Virginia Gatling <vgatling at ectisp.net> Subject: Re: SC - Rice in period? Risum, rice, also oryza. The word Risum is used by Platina who says: "Risum, quod ego antiquo vocabulo orizam appellatum puto" from APICIUS Cooking and dining in Imperail Rome so I guess this makes it sort a period. Regina Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:31:23 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Recipe 7-Weekend of Wisdom Rice for a Meat Day Copyright 1999 L. J. Spencer, Jr. This recipe was problematical from the beginning and actually never got prepared as written. It is easy to get 2 cps. of milk to come to a boil without scorching it but bringing 4 gallons of milk to a boil is quite a different thing. We ended up throwing out the milk and using water as in standard rice preparation. I think that this was my most disappointing dish. The rice was moist and tended to stick together. Again I blame this on the massive quantities used for feast preparation and the length the dish was held before service. I eliminated the rice cleaning steps because with today's packaged rice, it was unnecessary. (From Cariadoc's Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks, Vol.II; Le Manegier, pg. M-33. Translation by Janet Hinson.) Translation: Rice for a meat day. Pick it over and wash in 2 or three changes of hot water, and put to dry on the fire, then add boiling cow's milk, and grind up saffron to colour it yellow: soak with your milk, then add in grease from beef stock. 1 cps. Rice 1 tsp. salt 2 cps. Milk 3 threads Saffron, ground and soaked in 1 T hot water 1 T Rendered beef fat Bring milk to a boil. Add saffron. Pour hot milk mixture over rice. Cover tightly and leave stand for 20-30 mins. or until milk is absorbed and rice is tender. Add fat. Fluff and serve. Makes 4 servings. (NOTE: A garnish of thyme sprigs is a nice touch.) Ras Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:10:46 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is> Subject: Re: SC - Recipe 7-Weekend of Wisdom Ras wrote: >Rice for a meat day. Pick it over and wash in 2 or three changes of hot >water, and put to dry on the fire, then add boiling cow's milk, and grind up >saffron to colour it yellow: soak with your milk, then add in grease from >beef stock. Would this be the same recipe that goes like this in the Eileen Power translation?: Savoury Rice (ris engoul) for a meat day. Peel it and wash it in two or three lots of cold water until the water be quite clear, then half cook it, run off the pure and set it on flat trenchers to dry before the fire; then cook it until it is very thick, with beef dripping and saffron, if it is a meat day; and if that it be a fish day, put not therein dripping but instead put in almonds well brayed and unstrained; then sugar it and add not saffron. I dont see any milk mentioned here - seems to me this is partially cooked then fried. Nanna Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:11:21 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Recipe 7-Weekend of Wisdom nannar at isholf.is writes: << Would this be the same recipe that goes like this in the Eileen Power translation?: >> The translation that you mention is for the Rice recipe that appears immediately after Rice for a meat day in the manuscript. Hinson translates the title for that one as 'Rice, Another Way'. Both translations are very similar. This is Hinson's translation: "Rice, Another Way. Pick it over and wash in two or three changes of hot water until. the water is clear, then do as above until half cooked, then puree it and put on trenchers in dishes to drain and dry in front of the fire: then cook it thick with the fatty liquid from beef and with saffron, if this is a meat day: and if it is a fish day, do not add meat juice, but in its place add almonds well-ground and not sieved; then sweeten and do not use saffron." This recipe is clearly a rice custard like dish while Rice for a Meat day is clearly a rice dish. Ras Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:46:38 GMT From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Recipe 7-Weekend of Wisdom >Would this be the same recipe that goes like this in the Eileen Power >translation?: > >Savoury Rice (ris engoul) for a meat day. Peel it and wash it in two or >three lots of cold water until the water be quite clear, then half cook it, >run off the pure and set it on flat trenchers to dry before the fire; then >cook it until it is very thick, with beef dripping and saffron, if it is a >meat day; and if that it be a fish day, put not therein dripping but >instead put in almonds well brayed and unstrained; then sugar it and add not >saffron. > >I dont see any milk mentioned here - seems to me this is partially cooked >then fried. I differ on the frying, because of the inclusion of saffron, I think the beef drippings and saffron are added to water and the rice is cooked in it. The first step seems to be to get rid of the excess starch and preserve the grain. (as I think the soaking and washing step in Ras' recipe is for as well) This makes the rice non-sticky and more "fluffy" for lack of a better word and it would take the saffron much easier and be more appealing than a yellow sticky mass flavored with beef drippings. Cadoc - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Cadoc MacDairi, Mountain Confederation, ACG Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:04:38 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Coronation feast Christina Nevin wrote: > What type of rice dishes? Could you please post the recipes? See above. Rices dishes could include white or colored/flavored vegetarian dishes cooked in almond milk, a sort of meatless blankmanger, rice cooked in meat broth, or by extension for vegetarians, vegetable broth with or without saffron. For sake of being medieval food in Europe, the rice should be moist and just a bit fluffy, but very soft, more like rice pudding than like pilaf. And, you want to avoid burning, which often afflicts rice dishes cooked in quantity. From years of precooking and reheating large quantities of risotto I've come up with a fairly foolproof method of using pre-cooked, unseasoned rice, and cooking it with broth or almond milk to get a vague approximation of what a medieval rice dish would be like. More later. Adamantius, on the fly/no flies on me Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:21:00 EST From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - Check out Breeding rice, Oryza sativa L. I got this from *Cool Fact a Day Phillipa Seton <A HREF="http://gnome.agrenv.mcgill.ca/breeding/students/max/rice/rice.htm">Cl ick here: Breeding rice, Oryza sativa L.</A> http://gnome.agrenv.mcgill.ca/breeding/students/max/rice/rice.htm Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:01:11 -0500 From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com> Subject: SC - Fw: [SD] Peppermint Rice Ok, the answer was supplied, so I thought I'd send it along here. Christianna Source: Medieval Holidays and Festivals by Madeliene Pelner Cosman, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1981 2 cups raw rice 4 cups water 1/4 teaspoon salt, more or less to taste 2 tablespoons butter 2 tablespoons firmly packed crushed peppermint leaves, or 2 teaspoons dried peppermint crushed in a mortar with 2 tablespoons crushed fresh parsley natural green food "paint" In a large heavy saucepan, combine the rice, water, salt, butter, food coloring, if desired, and peppermint paste. Bring to a quick boil over a high heat. Cover and simmer until all the liquid is absorbed, about 12 to 15 minutes. The rice should be a delicate green color. For my faults, Aethelthryth/Carol Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:53:19 -0400 From: "Ron Rispoli" <rispoli at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Substitutions-hazelnut milk > Incidently, does anyone have an >explanation as to why rice cooked in milk or cream just does not do as >nicely as rice cooked in water? Does the fat content prevent/hinder >liquid absorption? > >Allison, allilyn at juno.com I don't think its the fat because most recipes for rice I come across say to add butter to the rice/water pot. It might be that for the same volume milk and cream just have less water for the rice to absorb. To compensate you need to increase the volume of milk or cream. Is this for a rice pudding? If so split the liquid in your recipe to half milk/half water that way when its done the rice will be soft. Also only add egg yolks to the cooking pudding saving the whites for a meringue that you add after the pudding has cooled. Makes it very light and alas out of period. Unless someone can contradict me- Please. Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:30:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se> Subject: Re: SC - Substitutions-hazelnut milk On Sat, 20 May 2000, Ron Rispoli wrote: > pudding? If so split the liquid in your recipe to half milk/half water that > way when its done the rice will be soft. Also only add egg yolks to the > cooking pudding saving the whites for a meringue that you add after the > pudding has cooled. Makes it very light and alas out of period. Unless > someone can contradict me- Please. When making rice "porridge" all the recipes (modern) make you first boil the rice with some water until absorbed, then add milk (and butter and a stick of cinnamon) and cook until done. /UlfR - -- Par Leijonhufvud parlei at algonet.se Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:51:11 -0500 From: rcmann4 at earthlink.net Subject: SC - Recipe: Rice By way of penance for my off-topic posts, here's a rice recipe from Granado, suitable for Lent. Source: Diego Granado, _Libro del Arte de Cozina_ (Spanish, 1599) Para hazer escudilla de arroz con leche de almendras, o con azeyte To make a dish of rice with almond milk, or with oil Take the rice, clean it, and wash it with warm water so that it will become whiter, and will cook more quickly; have it be soaking in warm water for an hour, remove it, and let it dry in the sun, or by the heat of the fire, far from the flame, so that it does not turn red, and set it on the fire in a vessel of earthenware with enough water to cover it, and when it has absorbed the water, put in the almond milk with fine sugar, many times, and cause it to finish cooking, in such a manner that it becomes solid, and being cooked, serve it with sugar and cinnamon on top. You can sometimes serve it as ginestada[1], having strained it through a sieve, with more sugar and ground cinnamon and saffron, and returning it to cook with a little rosewater and malvasia[2]. If you wish to make the rice with oil in the Italian style, it is not necessary to do more than to cast the rice in water in a pot with oil and salt and saffron, and at the last [moment] add ginger with some chopped herbs, or fried onions. But in Valencia, it is made so curiously, that each grain is separate, in this manner. The rice having been washed, and dried in the sun in a very white napkin, they put it in a casserole, and cast in the quantity of sweet oil that is needed: in which oil they fry a some cloves of garlic, so that all the grains become coated, turning them very well with the oil and the garlic, and cast in spices, and saffron, and some beaten eggs, turning them by stirring everything together; then they cast in water, and set the casserole on the fire, and after it has finished absorbing the water, they put in three or four whole heads of garlic, and carry it to thicken in the oven, and when it has made a crust the color of gold, they set it to stew[3] until it is the dinner hour; and each grain comes out separately, and in whatever manner, this dish must be served hot. Notes: [1] ginestada is a pudding-like dish made with rice flour, milk (or almond milk), sugar, and spices. It may contain nuts and dried fruits. There are a couple of ginestada recipes in the Florilegium. [2] malvasia (aka malmsey) is a sweet wine. [3] "estobar" means "to stew". In other recipes involving grains, it usually means to leave the cooked grain in a covered dish, so that it will continue to absorb moisture. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 22:19:13 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Recipe: Rice rcmann4 at earthlink.net wrote: > But in Valencia, it is made so curiously, that each grain is > separate, in this manner. This might be seen as further evidence that the most common form in which rice is cooked is as a thick porridgey dish, rather than as a pilaf. Then, of course, there's the German recipe for Rice from Greece (I think that's it) in which rice is mostly, but not completely cooked in liquid, then sort of sauteed to firm it up a bit. Another similar type of dish would be the Digby "Rice Boiled Dry". > The rice having been washed, and dried > in the sun in a very white napkin, they put it in a casserole, and > cast in the quantity of sweet oil that is needed: in which oil they fry > a some cloves of garlic, so that all the grains become coated, > turning them very well with the oil and the garlic, and cast in > spices, and saffron, and some beaten eggs, turning them by > stirring everything together; then they cast in water, and set the > casserole on the fire, and after it has finished absorbing the water, > they put in three or four whole heads of garlic, and carry it to > thicken in the oven, and when it has made a crust the color of gold, > they set it to stew[3] until it is the dinner hour; and each grain > comes out separately, and in whatever manner, this dish must be > served hot. Hmmm. further evidence for at least local existence of the early pilaf. Almost a garlic paella, actually, and very similar to some of the Persian rice dishes (i.e. the crust, etc.) > Notes: > [1] ginestada is a pudding-like dish made with rice flour, milk (or > almond milk), sugar, and spices. It may contain nuts and dried > fruits. There are a couple of ginestada recipes in the Florilegium. I think perhaps there may be a broader definition, at least under this name, or ones like it. I don't seem to be able to find the exact word (because, of course, I need it) and therefore my evidence is a little shaky, but it should be pretty well checkable. Isn't ginestada linked to words referring to the yellow broomflower plant, as in Plantagenet, and as in jance, which is frequently thickened with eggs, sort of an unsweetened custard, then flavored with ginger, garlic, saffron, etc. I wonder if the fact that this ginestada is sieved might suggest it is to be used as a sauce for meats, as jance was. Yes, I realize this dish (the main one, anyway) doesn't call for eggs, and is not yellow, but perhaps it had evolved from a thick pale-colored sauce made like other French jances or English gaunceli for gees... Oh, one more question: > put in the almond > milk with fine sugar, many times, and cause it to finish cooking Could this fine sugar be sieved? This might tie in more with the expression "many times". Just a thort. Adamantius Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 23:35:55 -0500 From: rcmann4 at earthlink.net Subject: Re: SC - Recipe: Rice And it came to pass on 4 Mar 01, , that Philip & Susan Troy wrote: > > Notes: > > [1] ginestada is a pudding-like dish made with rice flour, milk (or > > almond milk), sugar, and spices. It may contain nuts and dried > > fruits. There are a couple of ginestada recipes in the Florilegium. > > I think perhaps there may be a broader definition, at least under this > name, or ones like it. I don't seem to be able to find the exact word > (because, of course, I need it) and therefore my evidence is a little > shaky, but it should be pretty well checkable. Isn't ginestada linked to > words referring to the yellow broomflower plant, as in Plantagenet, Yes, the name comes from ginestra, the Spanish word for the broomflower plant, because ginestada is normally colored yellow with saffron. Though Nola has one recipe which he says may be left white by omitting saffron. (For those who were at the Pennsic pot-luck, this is the dish I brought.) > and as in jance, which is frequently thickened with eggs, sort of > an unsweetened custard, then flavored with ginger, garlic, saffron, > etc. Well, the four ginestada recipes I know are all sweetened. Two of them are in Nola -- one of which calls for 2 ounces of rice flour and 1 ounce of sugar per dish. Another is in Granado, and calls for 4 pounds of sugar and 14 oz. rice flour to a gallon and a half of almond milk. The fourth is in Scully's Neapolitan collection, and calls for "enough sugar". > I wonder if the fact that this ginestada is sieved might suggest it > is to be used as a sauce for meats, as jance was. Yes, I realize > this dish (the main one, anyway) doesn't call for eggs, and is not > yellow, but perhaps it had evolved from a thick pale-colored sauce > made like other French jances or English gaunceli for gees... Could be. Many of the pottage dishes are. And the fact that it seems to be sweet is no reason that they couldn't have used it as a sauce for meat. I should mention, though, that this particular recipe is in a chapter entitled "Dishes of fish, and others for days in Lent". > > put in the almond > > milk with fine sugar, many times, and cause it to finish cooking > > Could this fine sugar be sieved? This might tie in more with the > expression "many times". Just a thort. I think it means to add the almond milk bit by bit, so you keep the rice moistened, but don't add too much liquid. If someone would like to double-check me, the Spanish phrase is: "y en aviendose embevido el agua pongase la leche de almendras con azucar fino en muchas veces, y hagase acabar de cozer..." > Adamantius Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) From: lilinah at earthlink.net Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:12:58 -0800 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pt. 2 - Medieval Persian Iron Chef Here are the recipes three dishes that were served on one tray: Bustaniyya - Orchard Dish - spiced chicken and lamb with pears, peaches, and almonds Saffron Rice Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates, stuffed with almonds Anahita --------------------- Bustaniya - Orchard Dish Spiced Chicken and Lamb with Pears, Peaches, and Almonds <snip - see lamb-mutton-msg? --------------------- Arruz al-Zafran - Saffron Rice There are no single recipes for cooked rice, so I concocted this one from several that I read. It leaves a lovely chewy golden "crust" in the rice cooker that my team was snacking on in the kitchen. For a smaller dinner, you can serve the "crust" cut up to the diners. Arruziya: Arrus Mufalfal: (Both in Waines) My Work-Up: Basmati rice almost 1 gallon whole milk water 1 teaspoons saffron 2 teaspoons salt The following is the procedure I used to cook the rice in a couple medium-large rice cookers. 1. Put three rice cooker measures of rice into rice cooker. 2. Add 1/4 teaspoon of saffron, crumbled in your fingers and sprinkled over the rice. 3. Put three more rice cooker measures of rice into rice cooker. 4. Add another 1/4 teaspoon of saffron. 5. Add six rice cooker measures of milk. 6.Add six rice cooker measures of water. 7. Turn on rice cooker. 8. After liquid has been bubble for a little while, give the contents of the rice cooker a stir, to more evenly distribute the saffron. 9. Cook until done (rice cooker stops cooking). 10. Remove liner with rice in it and turn upside down in a deep container. There should be a lovely soft chewy golden-brown crust on the bottom. This is considered a delicacy in modern Persia/Iran. 11. With a good knife, cut off the crust and set aside, then with a rice paddle, unclump the rice. 12. Repeat the above process until you have completed sufficient rice. I used the equivalent of four rice cookers full for one hundred people. 13. You can serve the crust cut into wedges or feed it to your grateful cooking staff... To use regular pots on the stove, put equal quantities of milk and water, bring to a boil, add saffron then a quantity of rice equal to one of the liquids, stir, reduce heat to very low, cover and cook for about 15 minutes. Heat must be VERY low or bottom of rice will burn. --------------------- Rutab Mu'assal - Honeyed Dates stuffed with almonds, scented with rosewater <snip - see dates-msg> --------------------- These were served thus: On ten round flat serving trays, a ring of rice was made around the outside. The meat was mounded in the middle. And 10 dates were placed evenly around the outer edge of the rice, the spaces between them filled with garbanzo beans. Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:18:25 -0500 From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking rice in feast quantities The Rice Book by Sri Owen. (New York: St. Martins, 1993) and Seductions of Rice by Jeffery Alford and Naomi Duguid. New York: Artisan, 1998) are both great source books on rice cookery and rice recipes. There are a number of variations of rice cookery, depending upon the culture and the type of rice being used. These books explain the different methods. Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway From: "micaylah" <dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking rice in feast quantities Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:34:32 -0500 I definitely cheat when it comes to rice. I pre-cook it and freeze it in boiling bags. On the day of, I then pop them into boiling water and poof I get nice fluffy nonsticky hot and nonscorched rice. Works like a charm. I do want to give these other methods a try though. Anything to prevent burnt rice and the hassle for the scullery staff in washing up these pots. Micaylah Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:36:40 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE Drachenwald Coronation/12th Night Menu Christina Nevin wrote: > > > Greek rice (half-boiled then fried) > > Any evidence of rice being done this way there (or anywhere else) in > period? > > It tells you to do so in the recipe: > 5. This is called Greek rice. [Greek Rice] > This is called Greek rice. Take rice and boil it in spring-water. When > half cooked pour away the water, and fry the rice in pure lard. Then > pour away the lard, sprinkle with sugar and serve. Don't oversalt. I wondered about this myself. Given that most medieval European rice recipes seem to produce a thick porridge-type dish, and these dishes often speak of cooking he rice in water or broth until it begins to split/burst, it would seem that half-cooking it in water would produce rice that is very nearly cooked through by modern standards. In other words, probably pretty similar to the point at which Creole [boiled like pasta] rice is removed from the water and steamed until fluffy, or the point at which Chinese boiled rice has absorbed all the water and is steamed over low heat to finish. Except you then fry it instead of steaming it. The fact that the recipe speaks of draining it suggests that a fair amount of fat is involved, but the question that comes to mind is whether this is deep-fried, crispy or puffy rice, or more like an Asian fried rice, which is itself not too different from a pilaf in texture. I'm thinking it may be the latter, Greece being close to Turkey and all; it would then be a matter of simply having reversed the order of the cooking processes, since nowadays pilaf is usually sauteed first, then combined with boiling liquid and simmered. On the other hand, sprinkling sugar on fried foods being a pretty common habit in medieval European recipes, maybe the rice _is_ supposed to be crispy. Opinions? Info? Adamantius Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:16:38 -0500 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Imaginary list was Re: Irish Stew recipe Also sprach Randy Goldberg MD: > Sadly, the rice in almond milk (20 quarts!) burned and had to be >tossed (it was inedible, the whole pot tasted of the burn). About this rice in almond milk -- did it simply burn, or did it refuse to cook until you raised the heat up to maximum and cooked it for two hours, _after_ which it burned? I ask because in cooking rice in almond milk from a raw state, the oil component of the almond milk seems to create a waterproof shield on each grain of rice, preventing it from absorbing water. Most recipes (that I've seen) for rice in almond milk, such as blankmanger, call for the rice to be cooked in water until what modern cooks would consider "done", then it is recooked in the almond milk to a risotto-ish consistency. Adamantius From: "Randy Goldberg MD" <goldberg at bestweb.net> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Imaginary list was Re: Irish Stew recipe Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:55:34 -0500 > About this rice in almond milk -- did it simply burn, or did it > refuse to cook until you raised the heat up to maximum and cooked it > for two hours, _after_ which it burned? I ask because in cooking rice > in almond milk from a raw state, the oil component of the almond milk > seems to create a waterproof shield on each grain of rice, preventing > it from absorbing water. Most recipes (that I've seen) for rice in > almond milk, such as blankmanger, call for the rice to be cooked in > water until what modern cooks would consider "done", then it is > recooked in the almond milk to a risotto-ish consistency. The rice was parboiled in plain water for about 7 minutes, then dumped out and the almond milk was added. It was then cooked for about 20 minutes, by which time it was burned, despite almost constant stirring. Next time I will NOT use a 20 qt stock pot - if I really NEED that much rice, I'll do it in two or three smaller vessels - you just CAN'T keep that much stuff in constant motion without a motor. :-) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Ruth Frey <ruthf at uidaho.edu> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1507 - 12 msgs Also sprach Randy Goldberg MD: >The rice was parboiled in plain water for about 7 minutes, then dumped out >and the almond milk was added. It was then cooked for about 20 minutes, by >which time it was burned, despite almost constant stirring. Next time I will >NOT use a 20 qt stock pot - if I really NEED that much rice, I'll do it in >two or three smaller vessels - you just CAN'T keep that much stuff in >constant motion without a motor. :-) Just for the heck of it, here's how I handled Blancmange (for 60 people) for the local 12th Night: I basically started with Cindy Renfrow's redaction in the first volume of _Take a Thousand Eggs..._, with the flavorings adjusted to personal taste based on a test batch made as written. I scaled the whole thing up 10X, as I recall. First, I cooked the rice (long-grain brown, which I got free as a donation -- short-grain would've been more Period, but I'll take "free" when I can get it) separately, in salted water, till it was done, then mixed in a portion of almond milk. The chicken (boneless, skinless breasts) were cooked separately in the 2nd portion of almond milk, removed from the milk, shredded with forks, then mixed back into their almond milk. I didn't have a container large enough to mix the 2 portions together, so I took my gallon-sized freezer bags and filled each one half-and-half with each mixture, squished them around, and then put them on the porch to cool off (one of the advantages to living in a cold climate). The next day (the feast), I dumped the blancmange into 2 big aluminum roasting pans, covered them with foil, and set them in the oven at low temp (about 200 - 250F) about 2 hours before the feast. By the time of serving, the blancmange was piping hot and ready to go. I sprinkled on rosewater (not in the original redaction, but common in blancmange recipes, and tasty) and stirred it in just before serving. People loved it, and it solved the question of how to make that much blancmange without burning it in the bottom of a big pot, or using up valuable stovetop space with lots of little pots. As it turned out, I had over 2 times the amount of the stuff we needed, but it was very popular in "leftover bags". Not that this would've helped in a situation where there was no kitchen, unfortunately, but it's a successful way to make a lot of sticky rice stuff. -- Ruth Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:15:30 -0700 From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Vidalia nionions... What I find interesting about this site is that they stock a probably-period breed of rice, Carolina Gold, which dates from the 1600's. Some nice cookware too, I covet that "biscuit bowl" which looks just like a bread-kneading trough I've seen in various period artworks. Selene, Caid [but married to a B'ham boy, remember] > Kiri: > If you go to www.boiledpeanuts.com, you can order them online...... Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:35:17 -0400 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Hard Cooked Eggs > This is called rice from Greece. You should take rice and boil it in water > until half done. Then pour out the water and boil the rice then in a clean > fat and then pour the fat off and do not oversalt. The translation by Melitta Weiss Adamson says to finish the cooking by frying the rice in lard, then pour off the lard and sprinkle the rice with sugar. And do not oversalt. Cindy From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Greek rice- was Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Hard Cooked Eggs Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:17:06 -0400 >> This is called rice from Greece. You should take rice and boil it in water >> until half done. Then pour out the water and boil the rice then in a clean >> fat and then pour the fat off and do not oversalt. > > The translation by Melitta Weiss Adamson says to finish the cooking by > frying the rice in lard, then pour off the lard and sprinkle the rice > with sugar. And do not oversalt. > > Cindy Thanks, Cindy- another take is always good ;-) What I did, since I had vegetarians to deal with, was fry the first batch in olive oil, then the subsequent batches in the lovely goose and duck fat I had from the goose stew- lovely flavor, and satisfied the vegetarians and the carnivores without much extra effort. Which phrase indicates the sugar? Phlip From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: Greek rice- was Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Hard Cooked Eggs Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:30:52 -0500 > Which phrase indicates the sugar? > > Phlip "vnd ein zucker dor vf vnde gibs hin vnd versaltz niht" (Hayek, 1958) Zucker is sugar. Roughly translated, "and a sugar then serve it forth And salt not." Bear Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:16:01 -0500 From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Also sprach Phlip: >> You said you were looking for something to bulk out the crab. I >> think, if I were you, I'd do a blomanger of fish and just use >> crabmeat, maybe garnishing with a smaller percentage of crab shells >> so people know what they're getting into (Hint: >> PRE...COOK..THE...RICE...!!!). > > Gee, Adamantius, what brought that on? > > Giggling madly at a certain memory ;-) twitch... twitch... left eye blinks rapidly and independently of motor control... My theory, for lack of a better one, is that almond oil is _the_ perfect waterproofing material for rice, and that rice to be cooked in almond milk either needs to be precooked in water or stock first, or bruised or pulverized in some way to speed up the process. Maybe it was extremely hard or soft water, I don't know. What I do know is that rice, even in quantity, shouldn't take two hours to cook in plenty of liquid and a heat range providing between a full, rolling boil to a steady simmer all that time. And just as obviously, the longer you cook it, the greater the likelihood that it'll burn. Actually, I believe most blancmanger recipes do specify pre-cooking, or at least cooking in stock or water before adding the almond milk. Unfortunately, they don't say why, or warn you what will happen if you don't. A. Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:24:51 EST From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org adamantius at verizon.net writes: <<My theory, for lack of a better one, is that almond oil is _the_ perfect waterproofing material for rice, and that rice to be cooked in almond milk either needs to be precooked in water or stock first, or bruised or pulverized in some way to speed up the process.>> Hmm. There's a recipe called Ryse of Fish Day in, I think, Forme of Cury, which calls for rice to be cooked in almond milk made with water, and it's worked quite successfully for us, in feast quantities. Yes, it is Forme of Cury: Blanch almonds and grind him, and draw him up with water. Wash the rice clean, and do thereto "sugar roche" and salt; let him be standing. Frye almonds brown, and flourish it therewith, or with sugar. The only recipes I've seen that start with "wash rice clean" are for raw rice. We've also faked a sort of Rice of flesh by throwing ground almonds into the cooking broth, while the rice was cooking, rather than steeping the almonds seperately in a small amount of the broth and adding it in before serving, as the recipe actually says to do. Brangwayna Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:40:50 -0500 From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Also sprach Bronwynmgn at aol.com: > adamantius at verizon.net writes: > <<My theory, for lack of a better one, is that almond oil is _the_ > perfect waterproofing material for rice, and that rice to be cooked > in almond milk either needs to be precooked in water or stock first, > or bruised or pulverized in some way to speed up the process.>> > The only recipes I've seen that start with "wash rice clean" are for > raw rice. > > We've also faked a sort of Rice of flesh by throwing ground almonds into the > cooking broth, while the rice was cooking, rather than steeping the almonds > seperately in a small amount of the broth and adding it in before > serving, as the recipe actually says to do. As I said, it was for lack of a better theory. All I can say for sure is what phenomenon occurred, and I have about 400 witnesses to that. I just cannot easily explain _why_ it occurred the way it did. Maybe it was really old rice, as with [was it Christiana's or Selene's, I forget which] blackeyed peas of last week or so. However, my experience with really old rice is that it gets mushy more easily, rather than staying rock-hard. However, regardless, I'd still have to say that more rice recipes call for cooking in something watery first, and adding almond milk later, than for cooking it in almond milk, and that doing the water-phase cooking in advance is reasonably in keeping with that, and would have solved my problem, had I done it. Certainly it couldn't hurt, all other things being equal. Adamantius Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:48:01 -0700 From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking rice To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> At 22:24 -0600 2004-01-11, Stefan li Rous wrote: > Adamantius commented: >> My theory, for lack of a better one, is that almond oil is _the_ >> perfect waterproofing material for rice, and that rice to be cooked >> in almond milk either needs to be precooked in water or stock first, >> or bruised or pulverized in some way to speed up the process. Maybe >> it was extremely hard or soft water, I don't know. What I do know is >> that rice, even in quantity, shouldn't take two hours to cook in >> plenty of liquid and a heat range providing between a full, rolling >> boil to a steady simmer all that time. And just as obviously, the >> longer you cook it, the greater the likelihood that it'll burn. > Could the rice have simply been old, like the beans we recently > discussed? Or does that not happen to rice? The following may or may not be relevant. I cook a lot of short grain brown rice, always in a covered pot. The only times I've "cooked it for two hours and it still wasn't done" happened (a number of times until I figured out my problem) quite a few years ago when I was impatient and figured, just turn *up* the heat under the pot and it will cook faster. Wrong. I don't know why, but whenever I did that the rice definitely resisted, and refused to get cooked. Perhaps some food scientist can explain it. So I've learned to always always do the short grain brown (when using the covered pot method) at a very low simmer. Especially when I'm in a hurry. On the other mitt, basmati rice does fine in an open pot at a rolling boil with a couple of tablespoons of oil or ghee over the highest flame I've got. Clearly the oil is failing to waterproof it. Thorvald Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:32:34 EST From: DeeWolff at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking rice To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I have found that a way to "fix" uncooked rice is to take the offending grains, put it in a microwaveable bowl with top and to "nuke" it. This pretty much takes care of the problem, by steaming the "crunchy" kernels. Otherwise, I once read here (I believe it was Cariadoc's post) that boiling the water, adding the rice and stirring in the almond milk, bringing all back up to a boil, and then turning off the heat and putting it on the back of a warm stove works well. I use this method, with few failures. I also learned that smaller batches are the best way to do it, and microwaving the offending remains follow-ups the "failure to thrive." Or, I can just bring my rice cooker to an event. Andrea who lived on all types of rice before Atkins Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:01:52 -0700 From: "Kathleen A. Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking rice To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> you can indeed get old rice that will not cook, even after hours. happened at a feast i was helping. someone got it in a huge bag from the local oriental grocery... to save $$$, of course. however... it was a DEEE-sas-TER! then they tried to let it steam done in a cooler... which didn't work. the folks added the cheese and other gunk to it then with high hopes. nope. zip, zilch, nada. then they tried to reheat it and cook it with the cheese in it.... sigh... i learned SO much that day........... especially to stand out of the line of fire when folks are insistent on shooting themselves in the foot (feet?). cailte who'd rather trust barley than rice Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:08:53 -0800 From: "Lorenz Wieland" <lorenz_wieland at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking rice To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> vicki shaw wrote: > I always have problems with Arborio rice. My daughter always makes > it to perfection, but mine turns unto a gloopy mush! Arborio (or Carnaroli or any other variety very high in starch) can't be cooked like other rices. You need to start it using a quantity of liquid no more than equal to the quantity of rice, cook until most of the liquid is gone, and add more liquid in small quantities while constantly stirring the mixture. Here's a basic, and relatively foolproof, risotto: 2 tbl olive oil 1 medium onion, chopped 4 garlic cloves, chopped Salt and black pepper to taste 1.25 cups arborio rice 1 cup white wine (Sauvingnon Blanc or Pinot Grigio) 4 cups chicken stock Heat oil in sautee pan over medium-high heat. Heat broth to simmer in separate container (sauce pan, microwave container, etc.). Sautee onions, garlic, salt, and pepper until onions are translucent. Add rice and cook, stirring, for 1 minute. Stir in wine and reduce until almost no free liquid remains. Reduce heat to