pancakes-msg

Stefan's Florilegium

pancakes-msg

This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

pancakes-msg — 11/20/04

Period pancakes and pancake-like foods. Waffles-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:03:32 EDT
From: Tollhase1 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

You could be correct.  My association with them is a Kosher deli I grew up in
on Saturday mornings.  I never could understand why all the stores were
closed in that neighborhood.  There does seem to be common type of thin
pancake common throughout Europe.  From the French crepes, Russian Blini,
Jewish Blintz.  I believe a Hungarian French made something similar, but I do
not know it name.  They all can be served with either a savory or a sweet
filling.

Frederich

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:22:37 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Varju at aol.com wrote:
> Tollhase1 at aol.com writes:
> << So you mean blintzes.  I like mine with sour cream and blueberries. >>
>
> Still not quite. . .the blini I have had were made with a buckwheat flour and
> were not noticeably sweet.  They were served on a plate by themselves with
> the sour cream and caviar availible to dip the blini in or, as some people
> did, put a thin layer of caviar with a thin layer of sour cream on them and
> then roll.  As i said they are pretty unique. . .

I agree, to a point. Blini and blintzes are probably similar in that
they're both pancakes, and probably derive from the same word, which
probably just means "pancakes", but there the resemblance really does end.

Blintzes are usually an eggy, crepe-y pancake, similar to canneloni, and
generally made with lightly beaten egg as the only leavening.

Blini are usually made with both yeast _and_ beaten egg yolks and
semi-stiff beaten egg white folded in at the end, so they're quite a lot
higher or thicker, and less dense, than blintzes. They'd be impossible
to roll up as they usually are, since they're so thick, if it weren't
for their inherent sponginess and a near-soaking in melted butter
traditionally applied before the sour cream, caviar, etc.

Blini are also generally _much_ smaller than blintzes, perhaps two or
three inches across, in my experience. You don't roll them up and tuck
in the ends as you might with a blintz, more often you fold it either in
quarters, or, as with a cornmeal "hard" taco, just over the filling.

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:48:44 -0500
From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Adamantius wrote:
>Blini are usually made with both yeast _and_ beaten egg yolks and
>semi-stiff beaten egg white folded in at the end, so they're quite a lot
>higher or thicker, and less dense, than blintzes. They'd be impossible
>to roll up as they usually are, since they're so thick, if it weren't
>for their inherent sponginess and a near-soaking in melted butter
>traditionally applied before the sour cream, caviar, etc.
>
>Blini are also generally _much_ smaller than blintzes, perhaps two or
>three inches across, in my experience. You don't roll them up and tuck
>in the ends as you might with a blintz, more often you fold it either in
>quarters, or, as with a cornmeal "hard" taco, just over the filling.

In our experience blini _are_ made using yeast, but they are _definitely_
able to be rolled up per experience with the Maslenitsa (Butter) Festival
in Moscow, and are sized to fit right inside a standard 8" to 10" tortilla
warmer (a friend in Moscow spent a few years in El Paso and was delighted
to find that the "Americans" had made something so perfect for keeping
blini at the right temperature).  They have the thickness of French crepes
but not the sweetness.  And they are not always made of buckwheat, although
that seems to be the flour most Americans associate with them.
*************************************************************************
Ilyana Barsova (Yana)  jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2
Slavic Interest Group http://www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:18:23 -0800
From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Jenn/Yana wrote:
> In our experience blini _are_ made using yeast, but they are _definitely_

Most of the recipes I've seen do indeed call for a fermented pancake,
sometimes with the batter prepared the day or night before.

Wheat, rye, and buckwheat are the flours I've always heard called for in
blini. I suspect the buckwheat may be more common the farther east one
goes in Russia.

I noted that 'kasha' was predominately buckwheat, but Dima told me it
could refer to any grain: wheat, rye, barley, buckwheat, and even rice.

Only once were my blini not served folded up in quarters, and that time,
the blini were of the same size, they had just not been folded. Could be
a regional serving practice in Chita 'Oblast.

This is making me a little 'home'sick.....

Seumas

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:24:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - two paintings showing waffles

Someone, a few days ago, asked about what paintings
had pictures of waffles and pancakes in them. I have not
had the time to do much research on this yet, but I
found two period paintings that have waffles depicted
in them, that had been webbed. The site talks about
costumes, but still is valuable for their kitchen
views.

The URL is:
http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm

or, more specifically:
http://www.lepg.org/veggirl.jpg

This painting by Pieter Aertsen, from 1567, is called
"Market woman with vegetable stall." To the viewers
left are three waffles laying around.

also:
http://www.lepg.org/waffles.jpg

This painting by Joachim de Beuckalaer was painted
sometime during 1550-1560. It is called, most
appropriately, "Making waffles." To the viewers lower
right, you will see several waffles laying on a table.
However, more importantly, you will see, in the center
of the painting, a young woman holding a waffle iron
in one hand and just about to ladle some batter from a
tureen with a wooden spoon in her other hand.

I know there are several more paintings, which I will
find and post as I find them.

Huette

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:17:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

Here are more paintings that show waffles and
pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.

From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains.

From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Page 2: Jan Steen, "The 12th Night Feast"
Jan Steen 1626-1679.
Page 15: Willem Buytewech, "Interior" 1610.
Page 22: Jan Steen, "The St. Nicholas Celebration"
Page 77: Nicholas Maes, "The Pancake Maker"
Nicholas Maes 1634-1693.
Page 117: No artist or date: "Sweet meal"

Huette

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:55:48 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

And it came to pass on 6 Dec 99,, that Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> Here are more paintings that show waffles and
> pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.
>
> >From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
> pages 86-87. Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
> us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
> but the painting appears to be dated 1560.

There is a painting, apparently by the same artist, at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/waffles.jpg
It is identified as: "Making Waffles" by Joachim Beuckelaer, 1565.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Waffles (was: Chambord)

- --- CBlackwill at aol.com wrote:
> michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com writes:
> >  Their reasoning was that I still use a hand crank
> can opener but I have a period waffle maker.
>
> Oohh...Period waffles?  (rubbing hands together with childish grin on his
> face) Recipe, please?  Also, how about a description of that waffle maker?  I
> would LOVE to have one.  Where'd you pick it up?
>
> Balthazar of Blackmoor

We had a long discussion about waffle, pancakes and
French toast last November, before you joined the
list. All are documentably period.

The period waffle maker mentioned can be documented
thru several Dutch painting which show ladies with
long handled waffle irons that you fill with batter
and stick in the fire to cook. These manual waffle
irons [as opposed to the electric kind] have been
around forever, it would seem. You can still by them
in kitchen supply stores and in camping equipment
stores.

Here are list of paintings and books where I found
such:

>From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains.

>From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Here is a website that has a painting by Beuckelaer,
dated 1565, that shows waffle making.

http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/waffles.jpg

It is identified as: "Making Waffles" by Joachim
Beuckelaer, 1565.

Huette

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Pancakes and waffles.

- --- Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2000 LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> > << Frankly, I refuse to object to pancakes,
> scrambled eggs, French toast... >>
> >
> > That's a good thing since they are period foods.
> ;-)
>
> Pancakes? To quote someone "recipie, please". I know a young lady who
> would very much want to be able to ducument them, but I haven't seen any
> recipies, to her great dismay.

>From "De Verstandige Kock" [Dutch 1667, the preface
says that many of the recipes in this cookbook copy
those from "Eenen Seer Schonen/ende Excellenten
Coc-boeck" published in 1589. This is the only period
Dutch cookbook that has been translated into English.
There are many paintings of pancakes and waffles that
are pre-1600. Please see my post from last week or
so.]

Huette

1) To fry common Pancakes.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet Milk
and 3 Eggs. Some add some sugar to it.

2) To fry the best kind of Pancakes.

Take 5 or 6 Eggs with clean, running water, add to it
Cloves, Cinnamon, Mace, and Nutmeg with some Salt,
beat it with some Wheat-flour as thick as you like,
fry them and sprinkle them with Sugar; these are
prepared with running water because with Milk or Cream
they would be tough.

3) To fry Groeninger Pancakes.

Take a pond of Wheat-flour, 3 Eggs, a quarter pond of
Currants and Some Cinnamon, this is fried in Butter.
Is good.

4) To fry Waffles.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.

5) To fry Wafers.

Take a pond Wheat-flour, a loot Cinnamon, a half loot
Ginger, 2 Eggs, a half beer glass Rhenish-wine, a
stuyver Rosewater, a small bowl Butter without Salt, a
little Sugar; beaten with some lukewarm water until
the thickness of Pancake [batter] and fried in the
iron. Is delicious.

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:22:20 EDT
From: CBlackwill at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Speculating on breakfast ...

ahrenshav at yahoo.com writes:
> As far as I have seen, there is no documentation as to
>  when waffles, french toast or pancakes were eaten,
>  although there is a painting of a 12th Night Feast
>  that has waffles as part of the feast and it was
>  clearly an evening meal.

The Larousse Gastronomique has a reference to oublies (period waffles) being
sold from merchant carts both night and day. No documentation for this,
unfortunately, but its pretty easy to believe. The recipe I have posted is
pretty darned good, regardless of when served.

Balthazar of Blackmoor

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books

- --- david friedman <ddfr at best.com> wrote:
> At 9:45 AM +0200 6/30/00, Cindy M. Renfrow wrote:
> >IIRC, Le Menagier gives several recipes for 'crisps' batter. Waffles,
> >wafers, crisps, whatever you want to call them are very old.
> >
> >Cindy

> 3. Modern waffles: Waffle pattern, but thick with a pancake like texture.
>
> Off hand, I am not sure I have seen anything that is clearly made
> like a modern waffle. One thing worth checking is whether there are
> any surviving wafer irons, and if so if the separation between the
> plates is thin, as in a modern wafer iron, or thick, as in a waffle
> iron.
>
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

From "De Verstandige Kock" [Dutch 1667, the preface
says that many of the recipes in this cookbook copy
those from "Eenen Seer Schonen/ende Excellenten
Coc-boeck" published in 1589. This is the only period
Dutch cookbook that has been translated into English.
There are many paintings of pancakes and waffles that
are pre-1600.

If you look at the commentary in the fifth recipe, you
will see that it refers to make the batter the same
thickness of pancake batter.

From all of the painting and drawings I have seen, my
opinion is that the Dutch waffles/wafers/etc. are
thick.

1) To fry common Pancakes.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet Milk
and 3 Eggs. Some add some sugar to it.

2) To fry the best kind of Pancakes.

3) To fry Groeninger Pancakes.

Take a pond of Wheat-flour, 3 Eggs, a quarter pond of
Currants and Some Cinnamon, this is fried in Butter.
Is good.

4) To fry Waffles.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.

5) To fry Wafers.

Here are two URLs that show paintings of period
waffles:
http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm

or, more specifically:
http://www.lepg.org/veggirl.jpg

This painting by Pieter Aertsen, from 1567, is called
"Market woman with vegetable stall." To the viewers
left are three waffles laying around.

also:
http://www.lepg.org/waffles.jpg

From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

I am sure that Cariadoc will dismiss these as being
"Early Modern", but I think that they are still within
SCA period.

It is hard to say if whether or not they were served
to the nobility in Holland. Most paintings show
common people making them. Others are in still lifes.

Huette

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:59:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Waffles and Books

- --- david friedman <ddfr at best.com> wrote:
> At 8:16 AM -0400 6/30/00, alysk at ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >I've seen square and round waffles in pictures.
>
> Is it clear they are waffles (thick, pancake
> texture) rather than wafers (similar pattern, thin, crisp)?
>
> David Friedman

To my eyes they are waffles [as in thick] rather than
wafers [as in thin]. However, the Dutch do not seem
to distinguish between the two words from the one
cookbook that has been translated into English.

Huette

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:05:51 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books

At 1:52 AM -0700 7/1/00, Huette von Ahrens wrote:
>4) To fry Waffles.
>
>For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
>Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
>Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.
>
>5) To fry Wafers.
>
>Take a pond Wheat-flour, a loot Cinnamon, a half loot
>Ginger, 2 Eggs, a half beer glass Rhenish-wine, a
>stuyver Rosewater, a small bowl Butter without Salt, a
>little Sugar; beaten with some lukewarm water until
>the thickness of Pancake [batter] and fried in the
>iron. Is delicious.

I gather there are two different Dutch words here, which are being
translated "wafer" and "waffle." Do we know how far back the words
go, and is there additional evidence on the difference in their
meaning? Is there a Dutch equivalent of the OED where one can find
such information?

>Here are two URLs that show paintings of period
>waffles:

I think the pictures look more like waffles than wafers, but I'm not
sure one can say for certain--although it might be clearer from the
original than from the webbed version, which has a lot less detail.

>I am sure that Cariadoc will dismiss these as being
>"Early Modern", but I think that they are still within SCA period.

I don't think I ever use that term. In the culinary context, I prefer
"nouvelle cuisine."

17th century is not within SCA period, although what is happening in
the 17th century is some evidence of what was happening during the
16th century. But the webbed pictures you cite are within our
period--and are probably showing waffles.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:11:01 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - I'm not proud....HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Black Jade wrote:
> Our Baroness was only recently (in the general scheme of things)  informed
> that she had Coleiac.  As a result, things are pretty sketchy as to what
> she can and can't eat.  She has stated that she hates all gluten free
> breads cuase they 'don't taste right'  She's pretty much substituted that
> with rice cakes (Those horrible health things that look and taste like
> packing polestyrene)

A better alternative for the event might be these; this is the
Fettiplace recipe I mentioned earlier (yesterday???)

"A FRENCH DISH

" Blanche almonds in cold water, then beat them verie smale, then take
boyled rice, & beat them together with sugar, and rosewater, then mould
them in flower like flat cakes, then frie them in butter & then put
sugar on them, and serve them."

Spurling's notes, or rather, some of them:

"For 4 oz. ground almonds and 4 oz. boiled rice, you will need 2
tablespoons rosewater and 1 or 2 rounded teaspoons of sugar, which makes
a paste easily shaped into small flat cakes for frying. I like these
cakes the plainer the better so as to increase the contrast of sweetness
and texture under a thick strewing of sugar at table. They are better
still served with one of Kenelm Digby's frothy little sauces, made from
sherry, sugar and butter beaten up in the pan as soon as you have
finished cooking the last batch of cakes."

In short, rice and almond latkes. Sort of...

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:54:08 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - dayboard (Ruzzige cake; Buch von guter Speise #52)

I would would say "ein blat von eyern" is an egg and flour dough rolled very
thin. A crepe would not need the butter under it. Putting butter under the
dough suggests that it might be there to soften the crust and keep the crust
from sticking.

Sauting the herbs to soften them and mixing them with eggs cheese and bread
sounds suspiciously like a quiche filling.

If Thomas is correct (and his linguistic skills are certainly far better
than mine) and "flur" is actually "feuer," then this could mean that this
dish is baked in a kettle with coals on top. It might also mean using a
"salamander" to brown the top of the dish before baking. The browning might
also make the top crisp.

Again, this is a recipe to play with. I wonder if they would have put salt
in the "blat?"

Bear

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:33:15 -0400
From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com>
Subject: SC - RE: Ruzzige Cake

This is from my notes.  After several unsatisfactory tries with the crust, I
ended up using a basic pizza dough.  It got me through the feast, but went
onto the "needs further experimentation" list.  My source was Alia Atlas'
online translation.

52. Ein gut f¸lle (A good filling)

Der ein gut kˆcherye machen wil. der hacke petersylien und salbey. glich
vil. und brate sie in butern und t¸ftele eyer weich. und menge daz zu
sammene. und ribe kese und brot dor in. und mache ein blat von eyern. und
giuz butern dor under. und sch¸te diz dor uf. gib im flur oben uf. und laz
backen. diz sint ruzzige k¸echin.

He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft. And mix that together. And
grate cheese and bread therein. And make a leaf from eggs. And pour butter
thereunder. And pour this thereon. Give it flowers on top. And let bake.
This is ruzzige cake.

Ruzzige Cake

Crust:
2 cups flour
2/3 cup warm water
1/2 tsp yeast
1 tbsp olive oil
1/2 tsp salt
1 tbsp butter

Dissolve yeast in warm water and add to flour, olive oil and salt. Mix into
a soft dough and knead for 10 minutes. Cover with a damp towel and allow to
rise for two hours. Punch back down and knead until smooth and elastic.

Use butter to grease a 9x9 cake pan. Press dough flat and stretch it into
the pan, pinching up around the edges.

Filling:
1/2 cup chopped parsley
1/2 cup chopped sage
2 tbsp butter
4 eggs
1/4 cup breadcrumbs
1 cup grated Parmesan cheese

Lightly saute the parsley and sage in butter. In a separate bowl, whisk
together the eggs, breadcrumbs and cheese, then mix in the parsley and sage.
Pour over the prepared crust and bake at 400 for 20-25 minutes. The filling
should set like a quiche, and the crust should be slightly browned.

If you can help me out with a flour/egg crust, I'd be really happy.

Thanks,
Rose

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:57:48 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Ruzzige Cake

>52. Ein gut f¸lle (A good filling)
>
>Der ein gut kˆcherye machen wil. der hacke petersylien und salbey. glich
>vil. und brate sie in butern und t¸ftele eyer weich. und menge daz zu
>sammene. und ribe kese und brot dor in. und mache ein blat von eyern. und
>giuz butern dor under. und sch¸te diz dor uf. gib im flur oben uf. und laz
>backen. diz sint ruzzige k¸echin.
>
>He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
>And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft. And mix that together. And
>grate cheese and bread therein. And make a leaf from eggs. And pour butter
>thereunder. And pour this thereon. Give it flowers on top. And let bake.
>This is ruzzige cake.

If y'all will pardon some fuzzy-brained late-night thinking here... This
Ruzzige k¸echin recipe sounds vaguely similar to this recipe for Sew trappe
- -- not in the specific ingredients, but in what's going on, i.e. making a
filled crÍpe. (And yes, I know Sew trappe is making more of a crÍpe
sandwich, but look at the two-pan method used.)

Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis
xxx.  Sew trappe.  Take .ij. lytel er[th]en pannys, & sette on [th]e colys
tyl [th]ey ben hote; make a dyssche-fulle of [th]ikke bature of Floure &
Watere; take & grece a lytel [th]at o[ther panne, & do [th]e bater
[th]er-on; & lat renne al a-bowte [th]e panne, so [th]at [th]e pan be al
y-helyd; take & sette [th]e panne a-[3]en ouer [th]e fyre of colys; do
[th]at o[ther panne a-boue [th]at o[ther panne, tyl it be y-baken y-now;
whan it is y-bake, [th]at it wol a-ryse fro [th]e eggys of [th]e panne,
take kydes Fleyssche & [3]ong porke, & hew it; take Percely, ysope, &
Sauerey [and hew hit]  smal y-now; & [th]row a-mong [th]e Fleyssche;  & do
it in a panne, & [th]e cofynne, do it to [th]e colys; hele it with [th]at
o[th]er panne, & do colys a-bouyn, & lat baken wyl; whan it is y-now, take
Eyroun, & breke hem; take [th]e [3]olkes, & draw [th]orw a straynoure:
caste to [th]e [3]olkys Hwyte Sugre, Gyngere, Canelle, Galyngale; sture it
wyl to-gederys; take al [th]is, & sette a-doun [th]e panne, & cast in
a-bouyn [th]e cofynne in [th]e panne:  sture it to-gederys; hele it
a[3]enward with [th]at o[th]er panne, & lay colys a-boue, & lat bake wyl
tyl it be y-now; take yt owt of [th]e panne, & do it out y-hole, or as
moche as [th]ow wolt, & [th]anne serue it forth.

30.  Sew trappe.  Take two little earthen pans, & set on the coals till
they are hot; make a dish-full of thick batter of Flour & Water; take &
grease a little that other pan, & put the batter thereon; & let run all
about the pan, so that the pan is all covered; take & set the pan again
over the fire of coals; put that other pan above that other pan, till it is
baked enough; when it is baked, that it will arise from the edges of the
pan, take kids Flesh & young pork, & hew it; take Parsley, hyssop, & Savory
[and hew it] small enough; & throw among the Flesh; & put it in a pan, &
the coffin, put it to the coals; cover it with that other pan, & put coals
above, & let bake well; when it is enough, take Eggs, & break them; take
the yolks, & draw through a strainer:  cast to the yolks White Sugar,
Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale; stir it well together; take all this, & set
down the pan, & cast in above the coffin in the pan:  stir it together;
cover it again with that other pan, & lay coals above, & let bake well till
it is enough; take it out of the pan, & put it out whole, or as much as
thou will, & then serve it forth.

>From Thomas:
>1. _a leaf from eggs_; the German _blat_ has a technical meaning in the
>old language: 'thin (piece of) dough'. Sure, German _Blatt_ in the
>modern language means 'leaf'; but as far as I can tell from my
>dictionaries, engl./am. _leaf_ alone is not used to refer to thin
>(pieces of) dough (please, correct me if I am wrong); thus, it seems to
>me, that one should translate the passage _ein blat von eyern_ with
>something like 'a thin (piece of) dough made of eggs'.
>
>2. _gib im flur oben uf_, 'Give it flowers on top'. The manuscript has
>the form _fiu:er_ (_fi½r_), which is an old form of todays _Feuer_
>'fire'. Thus, there are no flowers around, but one must heat everything
>from the top (with coals). Speaking of cooking equipment, there is good
>evidence for heating something from the top, e.g. by putting hot coals
>on top of a cooking vessel.
>
>-- _ruzzig_ means 'russian' (Stopp; Martellotti/Durante); not very
>convincing, given the fact, that we (I) know of no russian influences in
>culinary matters in the 14th century so far.

Ršz , Ršze, Riuze  stswm. pl. Riuze, Riuzen, Ršzen:
   Russe, Ruthenus (Rusze, Rusche, Rutze, Reusz, Reusze, Reuse)
   DFG. 505a, n. gl. 323a. SCHM. Fr. 2,153. ungetriuwer Ršz
   HELMBR. 1809. Riuze WOLFD. B. s. 347b. Ršzen lant,
   Russland JER. 3742, ebenso der dat. pl. DFG. 504b, n. gl. 323a.
   ausz, in Reuszen FASN. 360,1. 477,10.

ršzisch s. riuzesch.

If we plug in Thomas' suggestions:

>He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
>And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft. And mix that together. And
>grate cheese and bread therein. And make a thin tyne/pancake/crÍpe from
>eggs. And pour butter
>thereunder. And pour this [mixture] thereon. Give it hot coals on top. And
>let bake.
>This is ruzzig cake.

And if we plug in the word Russian in the last line, we get BLINY.

Very fuzzily yours,

Cindy

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:16:16 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Thank you, Cindy, for your version of the recipe.

As far as I can see, two problems still remain:

- -- the translation of "t¸ftele" with _beat_ is doubtful. The web version
we are discussing is based on the earliest edition of the Buch von guter
Speise of 1844, the worst of the insufficient editions we have, I regret
to say. This editor suggested "schlagen, klopfen ? vgl. Schmeller 1,
358". The editor himself put a question mark here! Looking up the place
in Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary, I find that this meaning is given
for "deffeln", a word still in usage in modern German dialects, but a
word totally different from "t¸fteln". For the moment, I have no
solution.

- -- Now, the "ruzzige"-problem. Sure, _rus_ or in the older spelling
_ruz-_ refers to Russia, Russians. But as far as I can see, the usual
ending for such a word would have been "-isch". I am not sure what to do
here, but this problem is only of minor importance for the cook because
it concerns only the _name_ of the dish.

What is Bliny?

Cheers and thanks again,
Thomas

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 20:03:59 -0500
From: Diana L Skaggs <upsxdls_osu at ionet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

>GREAT STUFF!!! Unfortunately, I don't have a recipe, but if anyone on the list
>does, I'd love to have it. Kiri

Well, Leanna has her trusty copy of "Joy of Cooking," Here it is, their
version of Blini or Russian Raised Pancakes:

About 24 2-inch cakes

Dissolve 1 cake yeast in 2 cups scalded milk which has cooled to 85
degrees. Stir in until well blended: 1 1/2 cups sifted all-purpose flour
and 1 tbsp. sugar.  Cover the bowl and set this sponge to rise in a warm
place about 1 1/2 hours.  Beat until well blended 3 egg yolks with 1
tablespoon melted butter.  Stir in 1/2 cup sifted all-purpose flour and 1
tsp. salt. Beat these ingredients into sponge and let it rise again about 1
1/2 hours or until almost doubled in bulk.  Whip until stiff, but not dry:
3 egg whites and fold them into the batter.  After 10 minutes, cook the
batter, a very small quantity at a time in a greased skillet or on a
griddle. Turn to brown lightly on the other side.  Serve each blini rolled
and filled with: 1 tbsp. caviar and garnished with cultured sour cream.

Sounds decadent.

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:28:56 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Bliny are Russian pancakes, traditionally served at Shrovetide. The
recipes vary widely. Some call for yeast, others do not. Here is one that
is more like a crÍpe: http://www.ruscuisine.com/sent/030999.html

My modern German dictionary has t¸fteln as to do something with
hairsplitting attention to detail. This would seem to fit the making of a
batter with whipped egg whites, but this is pure speculation.

You say this mess is from the earliest edition. What do the other editions
say about this recipe?

Cindy

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:45:03 -0000
From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Kiri wrote:
>Thanks! Though I must say, I've never had them stuffed with caviar, but rather
>cheese or fruit.

Isn¥t there some mix-up here? (I¥m sorry if this has been discussed already
but my server has lost a bunch of messages I never saw.) I could be wrong
but I¥ve always understood that blini and blintz are two different things.
Blin means "pancake" in Russian and can be either a small pancake or a crepe
but the blini best known outside Russia, at least, are small (10 centimeters
or less in diameter and 6-8 millimeters thick), leavened with yeast, and
usually eaten hot with butter and a savoury filling, frequently caviar and
sour cream. Traditionally they ara made of buckwheat, although there are
flour-only versions.

Blintz, on the other hand, is an eggy pancake/crepe of Jewish origin,
leavend with baking powder (or just with eggs) and can be either sweet or
savoury.

Nanna

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:09:08 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Nanna Rognvaldardottir wrote:
> Isn¥t there some mix-up here? (I¥m sorry if this has been discussed already
> but my server has lost a bunch of messages I never saw.) I could be wrong
> but I¥ve always understood that blini and blintz are two different things.
> Blin means "pancake" in Russian and can be either a small pancake or a crepe
> but the blini best known outside Russia, at least, are small (10 centimeters
> or less in diameter and 6-8 millimeters thick), leavened with yeast, and
> usually eaten hot with butter and a savoury filling, frequently caviar and
> sour cream. Traditionally they ara made of buckwheat, although there are
> flour-only versions.

It sounds like we're talking around two different foods whose names
happen to have the same etymology. Thank you, Nanna, it never even
occurred to me that references to blini with cheese and fruit might in
fact be references to blintzes; I just assumed it was a presentation of
blini I'd never encountered before.

Yes, I agree with Nanna. Blini and blintzes are different, although
related, animals, in that they are both pancakes, and both probably
originated by Russians, but then Russia is large and ethnically diverse,
hence the differences.

The blini recipes I've seen tend to be what I would imagine are the
deluxe version, normally involving a yeast-raised buckwheat-flour
batter*, sometimes also containing cream, and into which beaten egg
white is sometimes carefully folded at the last minute before cooking. I
imagine there are simpler versions, but when I think of blini I think of
the Russian Tea Room on New Year's Eve, and the complicated version
seems the closest to that sort of presentation.

[*Note that this is an exception to all I've said in the past about
yeast-raised products being more often made from doughs, rather than
batters. I think my basic comment on the frequency of yeast-raised
doughs versus egg-or-chemical-raised batters still stands, though.]

Blintzes seem to be more along the lines of a sweet or almost-sweet
version of canneloni: an eggy pancake, usually much larger than blini,
made from wheat flour and eggs, milk, etc., normally rolled around a
filling, sometimes fried after rolling and sealing. Not unlike a spring
roll filled with fruit, jam, cheese, etc.

As for the question of whether a crepe-like layer is likely to have been
the substrate for ruzzige cake, I don't know. I'd like to experiment
with a slightly tougher _dough_ made from flour and eggs, like a pasta
but without the added water. I know Mistress Caterina Sichlingen (Alia
Atlas) was able to work with a dough for the German pies whose recipes
she translated that consisted largely of flour and egg yolks; the theory
was that the yolks, undiluted with water, contained enough shortening to
make such a pastry palatable. I found it to be a lovely yellow,
reasonably tender, but never quite crisp enough for my taste. It seemed
to go immediately from a state that most 20th-century Americans would
regard as soggy or underdone, to burnt. I don't really know why
Caterina's adapted recipe calls for pizza or bread dough, unless she was
simply applying a stop-gap measure for feast use, bulk presentation, etc.

Or, as someone might say outside the East Kingdom, it wasn't for an A&S
entry or anything... ; ) .

Adamantius, hearing the fluttering of Trouble's wings in the air

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:09:49 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Adamantius wrote:
>The blini recipes I've seen tend to be what I would imagine are the
>deluxe version, normally involving a yeast-raised buckwheat-flour
>batter*, sometimes also containing cream, and into which beaten egg
>white is sometimes carefully folded at the last minute before cooking. I
>imagine there are simpler versions, but when I think of blini I think of
>the Russian Tea Room on New Year's Eve, and the complicated version
>seems the closest to that sort of presentation.

The great Elena Molokhovets, in A Gift to Young Housewifes (the Russian
cooking bible of imperial times - that¥s the one where many of the cake
recipes begin with something like "take 70 egg yolks and beat them for an
hour") has the following recipe for "The very best pancakes" (bliny samye
luchshie) :

"Prepare a batter from 1 1/2 glasses wheat flour, 2 1/2 glasses buckwheat
flour, 2 1/2 glasses warm water, and 3-4 spoons yeast. After it has risen,
sprinkle on 1 glass buckwheat flour and let the batter rise. When the stove
is lit, an hour before cooking, pour 2 glasses boiling milk onto the batter
all at once and mix until smooth. When it cools, add salt. (2-3 eggs and 1/8
lb butter may be added also.) Let the batter rise and, without stirring
further, fry the pancakes as indicated in the Remarks (that is, spoon batter
over the bottom of the burning hot pan and fry the pancakes on top of the
stove or, preferably, bake them on hot coals in a Russian stove. When the
pancakes begin to rise and brown, drizzle butter over them. If they are
fried on top of the stove, turn them to finish cooking and stack them up by
the side of the stove to keep warm.)"

She also has a recipe for crepes (blinchiki) and the translator¥s notes add:
"Blinchiki are similar to French crepes. They are very thin unleavened
pancakes that may be filled or not, according to circumstances. Filled
blinchiki are known as blinzes among the American Jewish community."

>Blintzes seem to be more along the lines of a sweet or almost-sweet
>version of canneloni: an eggy pancake, usually much larger than blini,
>made from wheat flour and eggs, milk, etc., normally rolled around a
>filling, sometimes fried after rolling and sealing. Not unlike a spring
>roll filled with fruit, jam, cheese, etc.

In Iceland, we make almost identical very thin pancakes. They are either
eaten with sugar, or spread with jam and whipped cream and folded into a
triangle. They are considered about as Icelandic as you can get, and I
invariably serve them on the first day of summer (late April, the
temperature is rarely much above freezing).

Nanna

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:09:06 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Ruzzige cake, BvgS #52

Hi Cindy,

<< My modern German dictionary has t¸fteln as to do something with
hairsplitting attention to detail. This would seem to fit the making of
a batter with whipped egg whites, but this is pure speculation. >>

There is one reason why one cannot see our passage in the light of this
sense. The word _t¸fteln_ in the sense you quoted is much younger.
According to the Deutsches Wˆrterbuch (33 vols.; our OED), the word in
this sense is only attested from the 18th century onwards.

Another proposal was, to understand the passage _t¸ftele eyer weich_ in
the sense 'siede, d¸nste, d‰mpfe sie weich' (Deutsches Wˆrterbuch, vol.
2, 1503), 'cook them until they are soft (?)'. -- Aichholzer, in her
edition of the Mondsee cookbook chose this meaning for the parallel
recipe (M48). -- The expressions used for 'beat (eggs, yolks)' usually
are _schlagen_ or _klopffen_.

<< You say this mess is from the earliest edition. What do the other
editions say about this recipe? >>

Hajek's 1958 edition has only the text; no note, no entry in the
glossary (as often). -- Hajek's other publication on the book says that
"ruzzig" means 'ruþig' (smooty). -- Hayer 1976 casts doubt on this
interpretation, but does not give an own position. -- The tupperware
edition follows the Hajek II version (sooty); obviously they believed
that the coals were laid directly onto the dish. -- The Stopp-glossary
of the partial edition says "ruzzig 'russisch'" (russian, as did the
mhg. dictionaries). -- Finally, the Italian edition and translation says
that 'russian' is meant here, too, and even mentions the parallel to
bliny preparations.

In respect to _t¸fteln_ these editions either say nothing or follow the
'beat'-interpretation.

The problem with _t¸fteln_ and _ruzzig_ is, that our passage includes
the only (early) attestations of these words we have. And in such a
situation, there is not much control of what is possibly meant. Some say
this, some say that ... Perhaps I can ask my colleagues of the
Mittelhochdeutsches Wˆrterbuch in Trier later, what they think of this
recipe. Maybe I am missing something here ...

Anyway, the bliny-connection seems worth further investigation!

Cheers, Thomas

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:53:59 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Richard Kappler wrote:
>
> Stefan wrote:
> > Ok, just what is this thing? I'd like to save some of the messages
> > on this item, but I can't figure out whether it is a crepe, a cake,
> > a cheese/herb pie or just what from the descriptions/recipes given
> > here. Where would you all look for such an item?
>
> Well, that's really the crux of the debate Stefan.  Alia Atlas, in her
> translation and redaction, presents it as a pizza-like cake with cheese and
> herbs.  TGaP Adamantius and I are of the not too firmly held opinion that
> this is not the case.  I stop speaking for my master at that point, but go
> on for myself in saying that I am of the impression that it is more like a
> topped crepe type thingy.  Again, I am not terribly firm in this opinion as
> I have not yet devoted as much time as I plan to to my own translation and
> redaction, focusing on other projects for the moment.  I am also following
> the linguistic discussion between Thomas and Cindy.  My German is far too
> rusty to get into some of the etymology the are debating.  For the moment, I
> should think you would be safe putting it as a cheese and herb pie with the
> caveat that the classification may be changed at a later date.

Sounds about right. I think part of the problem is that you're trying to
classify medieval foods according to modern categories, and it doesn't
entirely work; some things just defy typical modern pigeonholes (Is
zanzarella a cheese soup, an omelette, should it go with herbolastes and
such, WHA'???) However, I don't really know a good solution to this
problem. The most effective would probably be cross-referenceing those
items that might fit into more than one category, but it's easy to say
that when you're not the one doing the work.

As for the specific question of what that eggy layer under the ruzzige
cake really _is_, all we really know is that it is to be made from eggs,
and that the word "blat", suggesting a leaf, is used. Now we need to
decide whether blat/leaf is used in the same sense as the French
"feuille", also denoting both leaves _and_ a culinary non-plant
application: each layer in puff pastry is called a feuille, the whole
product being mille-feuille. Additionally, we have numerous English
recipes which speak of making a thin foil _of dough_ with or without
eggs, and they are presumably talking of eggs and wheat flour kneaded
into a dough that can be rolled out.

So, I'm not sure if what is meant is A) a simple omelette layer, B) a
crepe layer, or C) an egg-flour dough layer, like pasta. Both B and C
rely on the assumption of adding ingredients not specified in the
recipe, but then that's not necessarily a problem -- when we speak of
serving pot roast with egg noodles, it is understood that the noodles
are made of more than just egg. A crepe layer could be what is meant,
but it's really no closer, and not especially easier to make, than a
pasta-based version, to the original.

Now. Is it divided into little cells?

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:09:15 -0700
From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Adamantius wrote:
> As for the specific question of what that eggy layer under the ruzzige
<snnipped>
> So, I'm not sure if what is meant is A) a simple omelette layer, B) a
> crepe layer, or C) an egg-flour dough layer, like pasta. Both B and C
> rely on the assumption of adding ingredients not specified in the
> recipe, but then that's not necessarily a problem -- when we speak of
> serving pot roast with egg noodles, it is understood that the noodles
> are made of more than just egg. A crepe layer could be what is meant,
> but it's really no closer, and not especially easier to make, than a
> pasta-based version, to the original.

Okay, I'll start out by admitting that I haven't been following this thread
(or the list in general for quite awhile), but regarding the use of the word
blat in Das buoch von guote spise (that's where the Ruzzige cake recipe came
from right?) I always thought that the blat of eggs was probably closer to a
sheet of pastry dough made from flour and eggs. In comparison, Sabina
Welserin used the word blatz to refer to such a sheet of dough. These
snippets are just a few of such references in her book. I haven't had time
to look at any other texts, so I'm not sure if similar words were used in
this context by other writers. I've left the words bletz and blatz
untranslated so you can see them in context. These aren't my published
translations, just off-the-cuff renderings.

from <<67>>
Ain pasteten von wilbret (A pastry from game;

nempt darnach ain wenig
...taig daruon, vngefarlich den dritten tail, vnnd welglet 2
bletz, ... thiet das wilbret a¶ff den vnndern blatz vnnd diet
darnach den andern blatz obena¶ff...

take afterwards a little dough thereon, about the third part and roll 2
bletz,...put the game on the bottom blatz and put afterwards the other blatz
over it

from <<70>>
Ain torten von pflamen... (A tart from plums...)

...man nimpt 2 air vnnd erklopffts,
darnach riert ain mel daran, bis es dich wirt, schit jn darnach
a¶ff den disch vnnd arbait jn woll, bis er recht wirt, hernach
nempt ain wenig mer dan den halbtail vom taig vnnd
welglet ain blatz, so brait jr die torten haben welt, hernach
schit die pflamen dara¶ff vnnd welglet hernach den andern
blatz vnnd zerschneit jn, wie jr jn geren haben welt,
vnnd thiets oben jber die torten...

...one takes 2 eggs and beats, after that stir flour therein, until it
becomes thick, pour it after that on the table and work it well, until it is
right, afterwards take a little more than half of the dough and roll a
blatz, so wide as you will have your tart, after that pour the plums on it
and roll after that the other blatz and cut it, however you would like to
have it, and put it over the tart...

Valoise

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:06:27 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Ruzzige cakes

"A good stuffing.
If you want to prepare a good dish, chop the same amount of parsley and
sage, and fry it in butter. Beat raw eggs and mix that, and grate cheese
and bread, and add it. Make a pancake, add melted butter, and put it on
the fire. Cover the top with coal, too, and bake it. These are sooty
cakes." (Adamson, Buoch ... p. 103).

Th.