flour-msg – 1/5/15

Flours. Period flours. Approximating them with modern flours. Types of flours. Flour sources. chickpea flour.

NOTE: See also these files: boulting-msg, bread-msg, breadmaking-msg, dumplings-msg, grains-msg, thickening-msg, leavening-msg, rice-msg, brd-manchets-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:50:45 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #51

Ray Caughlin wrote:
> Question? Bleached flour during the Middle Ages? Would someone clarify. My
> understanding is that white flour or (bleached) is modern. Good Period
> bakers need to know these things!
> Lord Mandrigal of Mu

The concept of bleached flour is modern only in the sense that flour
being produced on an industrial scale, for storage in warehouses, for
sale God knows when, is modern.

Bleached flour is produced by taking freshly ground flour and storing it
in non-airtight sacks for a specific length of time ( I don't know how
long). They don't add anything to it to bleach it. 

So, we have here another one of those "they COULD have had it" things.
How often it actually occurred is anybody's guess.

Adamantius


From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:24:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #51

Sue Wensel wrote:

> Marham talks about "fine white flour."  Could this be bleached flour? (I had
> always assumed so.)
> 
> Derdriu

Could be. As I posted earlier (and then deleted for space, dummy that I
am) it seems to be one of those things that COULD have existed.

I just figured Markham is talking about finely bolted flour: sifted
through a fine muslin or other cloth that would allow the passage of the
starchy grains without most of the bran.

Adamantius


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 18:05:09 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar is sweet and so are you...

Jeanne Stapleton wrote:

> Also, we were talking about bleaching flour earlier.  My
> understanding is that much modern bleached flour comes about because
> of chemical bleaching, not storage methods.  I have also been going
> for the unbleached white flour, which is still fine and white, and
> using that in my SCA cooking attempts.  Any thoughts on this?

From Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking", page 290:

'BLEACHING AND AGING

After the flour has been ground and blended to the desired mix of
particles, it is treated chemically to to accomplish in  a matter of
minutes what otherwise takes weeks. Bleaching removes the light yellow
color caused by xanthophylls, a variety of carotenoid pigment also found
in potatoes and onions. The color has no practical or nutritional
significance and is oxidized  simply to obtain a uniform whiteness.
Bleaching does, however,  destroy the small amounts of vitamin E in
flour, which probably accounts for its bad reputation in some circles.
For historical reasons, yellow coloration is valued in pasta, and so
semolina is never bleached.

Bleaching is often accomplished with the same gas, chlorine dioxide,
that is used to age, or "improve," the flour. But even unbleached flour
has been aged with potassium bromate or iodate. Aging has several
important practical results. It has long been known that flour allowed
to sit for one to two months  develops better baking qualities; hence
the practice of letting flour "age" before use (during this period, it
is also naturally bleached by oxygen in the air).'

It seems as if there's little practical difference between the bleached
and the unbleached flour as regards the introduction of foreign matter
to the flour, especially since the foreign matter doesn't remain in the
finished product. As regards the removal of the vitamin E from the
flour, this is pretty insignificant, since the majority of the vitamin E
is found in the germ, which isn't part of white flour anyway.

My suggestion to those who want to come as close as they can to period
flours is to use stone-ground whole wheat flour, which can be sieved to
remove some or most of the bran, depending on the fineness of the
bolting cloth. People living in cities with large Orthodox Jewish
communities might be able to get hold of some Passover flour, such as
non-industrial matzoh is made of. This is a fresh, unaged, unbleached,
sieved white flour. Hard to get hold of, but worth the effort for
experimentation.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:31:42 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - Bread

S. Noss wrote:
> Kind gentles, a newbie question.  What is a bolting cloth?
> 
> Shirley

A bolting cloth is used to sift and grade flour. In pre-industrial
times, whole wheat was ground in a mill, then sifted through
successively finer bolting cloths to get various grades of flour, from
dark whole-wheat to _almost_ white, for the wealthy. You can still buy a
textile item called bolting cloth, I understand, but it usually isn't
used for bolting anymore, so far as I know.

Nowadays the harder wheat we tend to grow and eat has the outside bran
removed by a machine with rollers, and THEN it's ground into flour.

Adamantius  


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:53:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - Bread

  Kind gentles, a newbie question.  What is a bolting cloth?

Mister Dictionary says:

bolt vt [ME bultan, fr. OF buleter, of Gmc origin; akin to MHG biutelnX
   to sift, fr. biutel bag, fr. OHG bu-til 1: to sift (as flour) usu. through
   fine-meshed cloth archaic  2: SIFT

bolt (bolt) verb, transitive
   To pass (flour, for example) through a sieve.
   [Middle English bulten, from Old French buleter, from Middle High German
   biuteln, from biutel, bag, purse.]

	Tibor


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:45:31 -0700
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SC - Re: Bread

What about spelt flour? Would spelt be a good substitute for modern
unbleached white?

I'm on the mailing list for King Arthur's Flour Company (Sands &
Taylor), and they're a good source for all kinds of specialty grains,
including hard and soft wheat flour varieties. I bought a bag of spelt
flour from my local health food store after reading about spelt in the
KAFC catalog. Spelt flour is sorta similar in texture to common
unbleached white-- but the differences are a nuttier (and IMHO opinion
more flavorful) and more complex taste, more nutritious, and has a color
between whole wheat and white flour. I used the spelt flour in all kinds
of baked goods in lieu of my more usual unbleached white, including
Definitely Right Out Of Period Tollhouse Cookies, with great success. 

cirostan


From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:53:08 -0500
Subject: ANST - Sifters and Sieves

The discussion on baking, ovens and bread asked about period
sifters/sieves.  I don't know what anyone else was using, but I can tell you
what the Vikings used (and in fact, Swedes in the countryside still use
even today)... they used a round, cup-shaped sieve made by naalbinding,
utilizing horsehair fiber.  Such sieves were used for sifting flour, and
for straining milk.  Milk straining is how most seem to be used in the
present day, but archaeological examples have been found with ground grain
trapped in the fibers.

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde


Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:12:56 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Tip o' the Day idea

>Seriously tho', could the references in Apicius to pre-cooked spelt when
>making dumplings be referring to puff pastry dough? Tried it in Vehlings
>BookII, Number 46, and incorporated the scallops , pepper and eggs into the
>dough. Dropped it by tblspns into hot fat (olive oil). It turned out
>great....what do you think?
>
>Lord Ras

Spelt (Triticum spelta) is a hard wheat still cultivated in Italy and (I
believe) Germany.  It was replaced in common use by softer wheats which
made better flour.  While I have no practical experience with it, my
notes say that it mills to a coarse flour and is used in polenta,
porridge and bread. 

Boiling spelt flour would soften the meal and might improve the texture
for use in pastry dough.

Bear   


Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:59:17 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Sharpening Fine Points or Will Adamantius Tell All?

>2. What modern flours most closely correspond to the sorts of flours
>referred to in period sources?

Here's a little lecturey commentary on what I've tried.

Bear

The Wheat

The original European wheat was emmer and has been used since Antiquity.
 This was later joined by German wheat (spelt), which appears to have
been popular in Rome and was spread across Europe by the Vandals.  These
were displaced by club wheat.  There are now some 30,000 varieties of
wheat developed from these basic stocks.

Medieval wheats were white-skinned and soft (low in gluten).  Modern
wheats, especially those grown in North America are red, amber or
yellow-skinned and are hard (high in gluten).  Spelt was popular in
bread making because it was harder than the other wheat available at the
time.

Modern flours tend to be mixtures of flours with all-purpose or bread
flour being high in gluten and cake flour being low in gluten.

In practice, I ignore the difference between hard and soft flours and
use what is readily available.  Unless you can get it through a bakery
supply, soft flour tends to come in small packages with a very high
price.

The Milling

Medieval flour was stone milled.  Most modern flour is roller milled, a
process developed in the 19th Century.

Roller milling breaks the wheat germ loose from the endosperm early in
the milling process, yielding wheat germ and bran as a salable products
and high extraction flour.  Because of the minimal wheat germ, roller
milled flour has an indefinite storage life and is drier than a
comparable stone milled flour.  The germ is used to make semolina and
other wheat germ products.

In Medieval milling, the fineness of the meal depended on the quality of
the stones.  Wheat would normally have been ground on the hardest,
closest tolerance stones available to achieve the finest average meal.

Stone ground wheat comes very close to the fineness of roller milling.
The chief difference is in the level of extraction.  Stone grinding
reaches a maximum of about 80% extraction.  Roller milling goes above
90% extraction.

There are 4 layers of skin on a wheat berry.  This is the bran.
Apparently in parts of England, the coarser fragments of the skin were
referred to as bran and the finer fragments were referred to as chisel.
After milling, flour was boulted (sieved) through fabric to remove the
bran and establish the fineness of the flour.  The bran removed during
the boulting would be used by the miller to feed his livestock or be
sold to others as feed.

Boulting cloths were made of linen, canvas, or wool, being joined by
silk in the mid-18th Century.

The lowest grade of flour would be that straight from the mill.  A
prudent farmer might take his meal this way to ensure the maximum return
and boult the flour immediately before use.

Once boulted flour would remove the largest pieces of the bran, but
there would still be pieces of bran and chisel and a fairly coarse
flour.  This flour would be used for rough breads, possibly trenchers.
I've used a Hodgson Mill 50/50 Wheat and White Flour, which I believe
would fall between once boulted and twice boulted flour.

Twice boulted flour is called for in The Good Huswife's Handmaide for
the Kitchen (1594) for the making of fine manchet.  This flour is used
for making fine breads and general pastries.  To approximate it, I use a
stone ground whole wheat flour with graham and unbleached white flour
mixed between 1:1 and 2:1.  This is probably the flour called for when a
recipe speaks of "fine flour" or "fair flour".

I've seen finer flour mentioned, but I can't remember the reference.  In
this circumstance, I would use a whole wheat pastry flour I am able to
purchase in bulk or a 1:1 mix of the pastry flour and unbleached white
flour.  This particular whole wheat flour is about the same color as the
unbleached white flour and may be what is being referred to by "finest
white flour".

Some Thoughts

Modern high extraction flour has a lower moisture content than its
Medieval counter part.  It will probably require more liquid than called
for in a recipe.

While recipes call for "white" flour, they say nothing about the color
of the end product.  Some of the manchets I made with a 1:1 mix of whole
wheat pastry flour and unbleached white flour produced a lovely golden
brown loaf, whose color resembles that of the breads in Medieval
paintings.

Would a 1:1 mix of HM 50/50 and whole wheat pastry flour be closer to a
Medieval twice boulted flour than what I currently use?

Did a miller user different kinds of cloth for different boultings?


Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:35:13 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Flours  was:[Dstlg] beer bread, OOP

> Arabella said:
>      I have had the same problem with my bread maker.  I have found that
> wheat flour takes longer to cook, and the very best flour for a bread
> machine is the type ground specially for the machine.  Gold Medal makes
> one, it comes in a yellow package. There's is something about how it's
> ground that makes it different from regular bleached flour.

The yellow bag Gold Medal flour I'm familiar with is a bromated flour.  It
contains additives to increase aeration and improve the rise.  I've used it,
but it causes problems with fine baking, so I tend to use all-purpose flour
except where a specialty flour is required.  It might improve the action of
a bread machine.

I believe you are also talking about whole wheat when you say wheat flour.
Whole wheat has less gluten than white flour.  If you are not already doing
it, try mixing whole wheat and white flour 1:1.  If the recipe calls for 1
pkg (teaspoon) of yeast, you might consider using 2 teaspoons of yeast.

> To which Kiriel replied:
> Most of the flour you buy in the local supermarket is too low in
> gluten to make really good bread.  Gluten is the protein in
> wheat, and helps to give doughs resilience, stretch and
> good rising abilities.  Most shop-bought flours have been
> bleached within an inch of their lives (so to speak) and have
> very little protein left.
>
> Having lived in USA most of my life and moved to Australia, I never had
> the problem with low gluten flours til I moved here. While I agree that
> most shop bought flours have less gluten in them, I found the problem
> worse in Australia. My mother, living in the US still makes lots of
> bread, I do not believe she normally adds gluten. Times do change
> however and I could be wrong.
>
> Nicolette
> Barony of Stormhold
> Principality of Lochac, Kingdom of the West

The gluten content is dependent on the type of wheat and to some extent the
processing.  The preferred wheats for bread making are "hard" wheats, those
having a red, amber or yellow skin.  "Soft" wheats have a pale, almost white
skin.  Hard wheats are high in gluten.  The best hard wheats are grown
primarily in the US and Canada.  Rye has some gluten, but all other cereals
have virtually none (flours other than wheat are mixed with wheat flours to
get a rise).

In processing, whole wheat has less gluten than white wheat.  Bleaching
doesn't do much to gluten, but it does remove the B-vitamins.  I prefer
unbleached white flour for my general baking.  Wheat germ and bran are
removed in the milling process, but that has more to do with nutrition than
good baking.

Store bought flour in the US is more than adequate to make a good loaf of
bread.  I don't know about the situation in Australia, but you might look to
see if any of the flours are labeled as "strong" flour.  If you do have low
gluten flour, rejoice, it makes great cakes and pastries.  If you want to
use it to make bread, and about an ounce of gluten extract to the pound and
toss in a little wheat germ for good measure.

Beyond that, I would look for a bakery supply that is willing to sell to the
general public.

Bear


Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:22:56 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - chickpea flour

At 2:57 PM -0600 5/2/98, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>Aldyth said:
>>I will owe my soul to the King Arthur Flour company. I discovered I have
>>a taste for chickpea flour.....

>Taste? How does it compare to wheat flour? Was this used throughout
>Medieval Europe? Or was this just a Middle Eastern item?

It appears in an 13th c. Andalusian recipe for Counterfeit Isfiriya of
Garbanzos.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/


Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:56:31 -0400
From: "marilyn traber" <mtraber at email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: SC - chickpea flou rking arthur flour

King Arthur Flour has a website with online catalog. They also have a
country store if you want to drive up into the middle of Vermont
somewhere...]

margali


Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:12:50 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - chickpea flou rking arthur flour

> King Arthur Flour has a website with online catalog. They also have a
> country store if you want to drive up into the middle of Vermont
> somewhere...]
>
> margali

They also have a number of commercial distributors across the country and
the flour can be found in a number of supermarkets.

Bear


Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:03:00 -0500
From: Chris Adler <Chris.Adler at westgroup.com>
Subject: SC - King Arthur Flour Co.'s URL

     A number of you have recently discussed the King Arthur Flour Company.
     The URL is www.kingarthurflour.com.

     I *strongly* recommend their goods. My mother has been buying their
     flours, whole grains, extracts, and baking equipment for the past 20
     to 30 years, so I grew up eating homemade bread and baked goods made
     with King Arthur flour for most of my life.

     Their service has always been speedy and courteous, and they've added
     a *lot* of items to their catalogue over the past five years. The
     prices are reasonable (although I can now get the flour a little
     cheaper in my local s supermarket). There are some products which I
     believe are of interest to the medievalist (saffron; chickpea, rice,
     and English granary flours; cone sugar; etc.) and tons of wonderous
     and useful things for the modern baker. And the recipes...mmm.

     No, I don't work for them. I just love to drool over their catalogue
     and watch friends similarly turn into puddles when I show them the
     catalogue for the first time. It is a baker's nirvana.

     Katja Davidova Orlova Khazarina


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 11:29:40 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - chickpea flour

Stefan asked:
>Taste? How does it compare to wheat flour? Was this used throughout
>Medieval Europe? Or was this just a Middle Eastern item?

The taste is very different to wheat flour - it tastes slightly nutty, but
that's a poor description. It has no gluten in it so it behaves very
differently to wheat flour. You can't use at alone for pastry or bread, but
it makes a great batter for frying savory things in.

It is heavily used in modern Indian cooking as well, but I don't have any
period European sources (correction - I know I have one thanks to Cariadoc's
post).

Rowan


Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:21:39 -0400From: "marilyn traber" <mtraber at email.msn.com>Subject: Re: SC - chickpea flou rking arthur flourOr if you have the right type of counter mounted hand cranked grinder you can make it yourself from dried chick peas from the local grocery stores Spanish/Mexican section....

margali


Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:58:29 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC -Simmering cream sauce, was Fried/fri interjection

> At 11:19 AM -0400 9/3/98, Jgoldsp at aol.com wrote:
> >Roux is classical french method of thickening sauces and gravies that came in
> >to being in France around the mid17th century though there are hints in
> >earlier books.This happened because of a little revolution in plowing method
> >and in grain plantin{ie wheat} and finally the milling process which allowed 
> >a finer whiter flour to be produced.
>
> I'm not sure I understand your explanation of why it happened. How would
> a change in plowing methods be relevant? Roux uses trivial amounts of flour
> compared to bread, so it isn't likely to have anything to do with changes
> in price and availability. My impression is that you can make fine flour
> by stone grinding--am I wrong?
>
> David/Cariadoc

Stone grinding will produce a very fine flour if you are using hard, careful
dressed stones.  In such cases about 80 percent of the wheat berry becomes
usable flour.  Roller milling, a 19th Century invention, increases the
percentage of usable flour, but not necessarily the fineness of the flour.
In any event, very fine flour could have been had in period by boulting
through fine cloth and flour usable in roux could have been had by passing
twice-boulted flour through a fine sieve.

IIRC, mid to late 17th Century saw the introduction of contour plowing and
some hybrid wheats, but those would have nothing to do with the fineness or
whiteness of the flour.

Bear


Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:57:16 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Flour as Thickener

In a message dated 9/4/98 9:42:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alm4 at cornell.edu
writes:

<< it sounds too much like using
 flour to me, and I remember my mother always telling me using flour to
 thicken  can make something taste awful.  >>

Without sounding disrespectful to your dear mother, I would suggest that if
she used flour and it tasted 'awful' then she was probably not cooking it long
enough after the flour was added. Using cornstarch and arrowroot as a
thickener only needs a minute more or less to cook and thicken. Flour needs
several minutes to cook and loose it's raw taste.

Another problem may have been the amount of flour she used when she had her
'bad' experience; as well as the pre-preperation of the thickener. Flour is
used at approximately 1 tblsp per cup of liquid. You should also make a thin
paste of the flour and water, milk or broth making sure you have no lSlowly
pour the mixture in to the boiling pan of liquid. REDUCE the heat to a simmer
and leave, stirring frequenbtly until thickened..

Personally , I prefer using flour when thickening meat gravies and use
cornstarch for puddings and fruit dishes on most occasions..I have never been
a fan of arrowroot because I find it makes for a poor thickener when compared
to the others. It's main advantage is that you can add it to the pan in it's
dry state without worrying about lumps in your sauce. ;-) Rice flour is
workable and I always use it in period recipes that call for it.Each type of
thickener has it's place. :-)

A side thought on the 'cornflour' discussion. I went to Fresh Life after work
today and bought both cornstarch and cornflour. Cornflour is as fine as
regular flour but yellower. Cornstarch is silky and definitely white. It is
apparent to me at least that cornstarch and cornflour are the maize
equivalents of wheat starch and wheat flour. They are definietely  2 very
different products. Sunday I will be experimenting with both to observe just
what differences their are in the cooking arena.

Ras


Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:08:00 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - amydoun (a new question, I swear!)

kat wrote:
> So the gist of what I have gleaned from this discussion is, amydoun is a wheat-based starch with similar properties to modern cornstarch, is used in the same way and produces similar results.
>
> So let's say I wanted to bring my perioid cooking a step closer to *period* cooking by obtaining some amydoun.  Can I actually purchase this somewhere under some name or other; or do I actually (gasp) have to make it myself?

You _could_ make it yourself, if you really wanted to, but the easiest thing
to do is buy a bag of wheat starch from a Chinese grocery store. You'll find
it on the shelf along with rice flour, tapioca starch, arrowroot, water
chestnut flour, etc. It usually comes in a one-pound paper sack wrapped in
plastic, or a double thickness of plastic bag.

There _are_ still Chinese groceries that do mail order, aren't there? I know
many Chinese cookbooks used to have lists of these, with their addresses, in
the back. Bet there is some place on the Web where you can buy the stuff, too.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:48:02 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Rice flour

Diana Skaggs wrote:
>      Leanna notes: I have prepared homecooked "frozen dinners."  If you want a
>      gravy that doesn't separate during freezing, the rice starch is the way
>      to go.

I'll go with that, as a general thing, but I find rice flour can be a little
gooey (which _is_ avoidable), and it tends to alter the color of the cooked
product by lightening it a shade or two. It doesn't become transparent the way
cornstarch or even a properly made wheat-flour-thickened sauce does. For
freezing, the officially approved thickener is a substance called waxy maize.
In honesty, though, I've never actually run across the stuff, even industrially.

Another difficulty is that nothing browns the way flour does, so rice flour as
a thickener for a brown sauce or gravy tends to make it kinda blah in color.

But for pale sauces, rice flour or even potato starch are good choices for freezing.

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:06:18 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - ham

Deborah Schumacher wrote:
> My mom used to do an awesome ham wrapped in ryebread dough.  ( i think it
> was rye bread )
> It kept the juices in and  was always discarded after cooking. ( Well sure i
> did try a nibble but it was nothing i would reccomend. )
>
> Zoe

Rye_bread_ dough or rye flour pastry? Rye flour pastry is sometimes
recommended by authors like Gervaise Markham for heavy-duty pasties, such as
larger ones made with venison...

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 23:00:50 -0500
From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>
Subject: SC - Tech info re Biscuits - OOP

Before Christmas, we discussed the uniqueness of Southern biscuits.  I
happened to read an article today which may partially explain why they
are hard to replicate in other parts of the country.

The article was a profile on Shirley Corriher, a chemist and
professional food scientist.  Chefs like Julia Child use her to figure
out why foods behave the way they do.  She uses her grandmother's
biscuit recipe to illustrate the benefit of low-protein flour.

She uses White Lily flour, a popular Southern brand, which has 9 grams
of protein per cup.  By comparison, Pillsbury and Gold Medal have 12
grams per cup.  The more protein, the more glutens formed and hardened
during baking.  With fewer glutens formed using White Lily, the biscuits
come out lighter and fluffier.  So, part of the reason our biscuits are
the delicacies they are may be due to the fact we're using lower-protein
flour.

She didn't explain why there's such a difference in protein content
between brands.  I'm going to look at the popular brands in SC {Adluh,
Red Band, etc} and check their protein content to see if the lower
levels are prevalent among Southern brands.  Perhaps someone with a
greater knowledge of baking can explain the discrepency?

The article also included a number of her other findings, such as why
cranberries baked with baking soda turn green, which fruits destroy
gelatin and why sage helps a custard set.  Her 1997 book "Cook Wise, the
Hows and Whys of Successful Cooking" won a James Beard award.  She's now
working on a book about baking.

John le Burguillun
Cyddlain Downs {Columbia SC}
Atlantia


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:25:55 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Tech info re Biscuits - OOP

> She didn't explain why there's such a difference in protein content
> between brands.  I'm going to look at the popular brands in SC {Adluh,
> Red Band, etc} and check their protein content to see if the lower
> levels are prevalent among Southern brands.  Perhaps someone with a
> greater knowledge of baking can explain the discrepency?
>
> John le Burguillun
> Cyddlain Downs {Columbia SC}
> Atlantia

Almost all of the protein in wheat flour is contained in the gluten.  High
gluten flours make better bread.  Low gluten flours make better pastries.
There are a few circumstances where the reverse is true, but you probably
won't encounter them unless you are doing serious French artisan baking.

Using low gluten flour, the texture of the product normally is softer with
more irregular aeration.

Unless you purchase specialty flours, most of what you can get in the store
is "all purpose" flour.  All purpose flour is a blend of hard and soft
flours, so that you can produce reasonable, but not great, breads and
pastries with it.  Each manufacture has their own blend.  In the case of
White Lily, the manufacturer uses a higher proportion of soft flour.

In over the counter flours, Gold Medal's Softasilk is about the softest at 8
grams protein per cup.  Some commercial pastry flours have fewer grams of
protein per cup, but you have to special order them in 50 to 100 lb. bags.

Bear


Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:56:42 EST
From: Vanishwood at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Tech info re Biscuits - OOP

In a message dated 1/7/99 10:58:12 PM EST, sheltons at conterra.com writes:
<< levels are prevalent among Southern brands.  Perhaps someone with a
 greater knowledge of baking can explain the discrepency? >>

According to our baking goods product manager...

The reason why most regional southern brands have lower protein content is due
to the fact that flour milling operations use the local wheat.  The wheat in
the south has that chacteristic.  Most mills do not ship wheat cross country
and use whatever is local.  However, Pillsbury, being national in scope, will
tend to standardize its formultaion across the country and is the reason why
you will see some differences among brands.

Ethelwulf


Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:08:54 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - period bread comments

> I've been wondering that myself.  I'm curious as to what their flours were
> like and what grains were used most often.  I have been experimenting with
> different types (whole wheat, rye, barley, oat, rice, buckwheat, soy), and
> have achieved a wide range of textures, flavors and densities.  What would
> there wheat flour have been like, would peasants be using something like our
> whole wheat?  How finely ground were their flours?  I assume they used some
> kind of starter for yeast, would their bread have had a more sourdough
> flavor?
>
> Faoiltighearna
> Torvald's Hird
> Canton of Ravenhill, BBM, East

Barley, rye and oats produce more grain per acre than wheat, so wheat was
the expensive grain to produce.  Rye and oats will grow where barley and
wheat won't, so they are more common the farther north you go.  Buckwheat is
not as popular as the other grains.  Soy is unknown.  Rice is of limited use
until late in period.

Flours could run the range from coarse meal to very fine.  Meals are used
primarily in cooked grain dishes.  Finer flours are used to make bread.

Peasants would be more likely to use rye, barley, oats and buckwheat than
wheat, but where economic conditions permitted, wheat moved down the
economic ladder.  The choicest breads were made from wheat and it was wheat
which was the standard grain of a noble house.  Mixed grains in porridge and
flour are also fairly common.  A little wheat flour provides gluten to help
a heavy bread rise.

Medieval mills could grind flour as fine as our standard flours.  The chief
difference is the amount of flour that could be extracted.  Medieval mills
can convert about 85 percent of the grain to flour.  Modern mills can
produce 90 to 95 percent extraction.  Modern roller mills separate the wheat
germ from the from the grain, something that did not occur in medieval
milling.

Flour was sieved through cloth (boulted) to remove bran and large particles
and to seperate the finer flour from the coarser flour.  The average quality
loaf would likely come from twice-boulted flour.  The fine white loaf would
most likely be made with thrice-boulted flour.  For practical purposes,
using a standard unbleached flour will approximately equal medieval fine
flour excepting the gluten content.

The most common wheat in the middle ages was emmer (Triticum dicoccum).
This produces a low gluten flour similar to cake flour although perhaps not
as fine..

The other common wheat was spelt (Triticum spelta).  Spelt had a a higher
gluten content and produced a coarser flour.  It was used primarily in
breads.

In the matter of yeast vs. sourdough, English recipes call for yeast or ale
barm.  This was dipped out of the active ale pot and used to leaven the
bread.  The yeast in this case is Saccharomyces cerevisiae.  A variant of
this yeast is what is commonly used in dry active or compressed yeast today.

On the otherhand, the French discouraged the use of yeast barm and forced
bakers to use a levain.  Platina's bread recipe is of this sort.
Originally, the levain was a lump of dough reserved from the previous baking
and added to the next batch as a starter.  Modern French bakers feed their
levains and pinch dough off of them to be the starter.  A levain tends to be
stiff ball of dough while most sourdough starters are semi-liquid, but they
perform the same function.

If you are interested in more information, try Stefan's Florilegium at:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/idxfood.html

Read over the sections on bread, bread-making, flours and yeasts.  There is
a lot of good information and recipes there.

Bear


Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:44:44 EST
From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - period bread comments

<< I've been wondering that myself.  I'm curious as to what their flours were
 like and what grains were used most often.  I have been experimenting with
 different types (whole wheat, rye, barley, oat, rice, buckwheat, soy), and
 have achieved a wide range of textures, flavors and densities.  What would
 there wheat flour have been like, would peasants be using something like our
 whole wheat?  How finely ground were their flours?  I assume they used some
 kind of starter for yeast, would their bread have had a more sourdough
 flavor?

 Faoiltighearna
 Torvald's Hird
 Canton of Ravenhill, BBM, East
  >>

Try experimenting with spelt flour.  I think this may also answer our question
concerning poundage.  A machine-made loaf of spelt bread weighs considerably
more than the same size loaf made from regular wheat or whole wheat flour.
The grain is period (it's the ancient ancestor of modern durum & winter
wheats).  The loaf is much denser, with an almost nutty back-flavor.  It's
really tasty, and it won't bloat you up like modern wheat does.

Same holds true for amaranth (if you haven't tried bread made from this grain,
you should.  It's yummy!), although this one only has historicity for Aztec
personae, AFAIK.

Wolfmother


Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:18:17 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - period bread comments

> Same holds true for amaranth (if you haven't tried bread made from this grain,
> you should.  It's yummy!), although this one only has historicity for
> Aztec personae, AFAIK.
>
> Wolfmother

The Amaranthaceae (pigweeds) are found in the warm regions of both the New
and Old Worlds.  Several species are used as grain.  Since the Old World
species originate in Africa, they probably were not used in Europe.

The first reported European encounter was during Pedro de Alvarado's
expedition into Guatemala, where he found amaranth paste being worked into
tamales used in the worship of Huitzilipochtli.  The Spanish outlawed the
cultivation of the plant to suppress the religion and its human sacrifices.

Bear


Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:34:44 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)

> Also, perhaps the "White" flour was a blend of flours or flour and some
> preservative or ingredient that rendered it more white, and consequently
> added a leavening action, or from a specific preparation method?
>
> Is there a source for raw fresh flour?
>
> Brandu

        In general, period fine white flour is a well-cleaned, finely milled flour of at least three boultings from very light wheat berries.  The best modern equivalent I know of is King Arthur's White Whole Wheat Flour.  This flour contains the wheat germ and has no preservatives.
      
  There are a number of local mills that produce limited amounts of flour, usually as a historical recreation or for the health food trade.  If you have one of these near you, you can get fresh flour from them.  Caveat: You want stone ground.  Roller milling separates the wheat germ.

        By definition, flour is raw, until you cook it.  Once you coagulate the gluten, the flour is no longer raw.  For practical purposes, there is no difference between fresh and aged flour.  Professional bakers prefer aged flours, because they have a more standardized moisture content.

        Should you get to reviewing the translation of the recipe, try to find the terms used to describe sourdoughs and leavens.  It seems to me this recipe would work if you substituted a fully proofed sourdough for the flour.

        Bear


Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:22:51 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Seeking wheat illumination -  OOP

> >>Are spaetzle made in the same way as Italian pasta is?  And what are
> all those different flours they have in Germany?  <<
>
> I don't know, Elysant, what are the flours are, but I think they are
> different kinds of milling.  We have bread flour, all-purpose, and cake
> flour, which is very fine.  They have a lot more.
>
> Allison

Actually, it is not so much the milling but the percentage of gluten they
contain, although cake flour is usually finer than the others.  Bread flour
is high-gluten, cake flour is low gluten, and all-purpose flour is a blend
of the two.  Then you get types of wheat, fineness, bran content, germ
content and all the other esoteric things bakers play with.

Bear


Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:49:32 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Graham Flour

> Has anyone seen references to the use of graham flour as period?  I will
> probably still use it for a fruit tart I'm making, but I was hoping to run
> down a source.  I have a few books but don't see any reference to graham
> flour.
>
> Roibeard

Graham flour is whole wheat flour with the bran in it.  Considering the
extraction rates, modern graham flour is probably very similar to period
flour after the first bolting, which would be used for making wastel.  Fine
pastries and breads would be made from flour of the second bolting.

Bear


Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:35:19 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Flower of the flour / melebly / flos farinae / fleur de farine / flor de la harina

Lady Brighid said:
<<< [2] Remember when we were having the discussion about “flower”
meaning the best of something?  I was tempted to comment that some
Spanish recipes have a phrase that I would be obliged to translate as
“the flower of the flour”.  Well, here it is: “flor de la harina”. >>>

Alas, I do not remember the discussion about "flower" in the sense of
'the best of something'. But I remember when I was thinking about a line
of the Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch: "vnd du ein melebly dar uff" (and put
some flour-flower upon it; 294r.11 in recipe 70, note page 87).
Commenting on "melebly" (flour-flower), I found that there is also a
latin expression (_flos farinae_) and a French expression (_fleur de
farine_) that is used several times in the 'Menagier'.

I am happy, to add span. "flor de la harina" to the collection now.

Thank you,
Thomas


Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:51:31 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Cornflour

At least where I purchase both corn flour and cornflour.

Corn flour is exactly that. A flour made from corn (e.g., maize) that is of
the same texture as regular flour only yellowish is color. It makes an
excellent substitute for wheat flour when used in coating food for pan or
deep frying, providing a nice depth of flavor lacking in wheat flour.

Cornflour is silky almost oily texture and can be used as a base for body
powders or as a thickening agent for sauces and gravies. The closest flour
that I can think of is rice flour so far as texture and some forms of usage.

Ras


Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:32:23 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - corn flour? - oop

> Yes, I believe so. In addition, I think the "plain soft flour" means a white
> flour with a low gluten content, like our pastry flour, or maybe cake flour.
> Actually, this is an extrapolation - I find "plain strong flour" defined as
> high-gluten flour for breadmaking, with additional description of the
> "strong" part to confirm that, and the "plain" flours seem to be white
> flours, but I have not been able to find a straightforward statement that
> says "plain" flours are always white. Perhaps someone else can clarify
> this?
> In the meantime, I am assuming from Elizabeth David's description that our
> all-purpose white flour (unbleached?), though slightly higher in gluten
> content than British "ordinary plain household flour", would do just fine
> for this recipe. (BTW, I like using half unbleached all-purpose flour and
> half cake flour (Softasilk brand, and always bleached) for shortbread
> cookies.)
>
> Morwyn of Wye, O.L.

You are correct that "soft" and "hard" mean low-gluten and high-gluten
respectively.  The terms appear to come from the technique of squeezing a
handful of flour to feel the hardness of the flour.  The harder it feels,
the more gluten.

"Plain" usually means that the flour has not been bromated (to improve the
rise) or had other chemicals added.  IIRC, "plain" does not cover bleached
or unbleached, as the bleaching does not modify the baking properties of the
flour.  Since whole wheat flours are labelled as such, plain flours will
tend to range from brilliant white to light ivory in color, the baker's
whites.

Bear


Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:13:05 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - barley bread

> How about adding Gluten?  I work in a bakery where we add gluten to just 
> about every thing, cause my boss says, too much of it is lost in the 
> prosessing of flour.  I'm only an apprentice, and haven't studied up on it
> much.  What do you think?
> 
> AdN

You could add gluten to the barley, but the end product wouldn't be
authentic. Mixing wheat with other flours is period practice if you are
trying to get a rise.  And if you are trying to bake a traditional flat
bread or recreate a specific technique, why add gluten?

For my purposes, most all purpose flour has enough gluten.  If I need some
serious gluten, I move up to the high protein strong bread flours.  Of
course, I'm not trying to keep costs down and production and quality up.

Gluten forms most of the protein in flour and the percentage of protein per
volume of flour normally runs between 8 and 17 percent, most all purpose
flours being between 9 and 12 percent with a few low gluten cake flours
running down to around 6 percent.  There are some commercial, all-purpose
flours, especially in the South, which run between 7 and 9 percent and
probably need additional gluten to make decent commercial loaves.  Anything
12 percent and up, probably doesn't need a gluten boost.

Since a commercial bakery is trying to make a profit, it is very possible
that the best priced flour needs additional gluten and that adding gluten is
more cost effective than upgrading the flour.

Bear 


Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:31:51 -0700
From: "Christi Rigby" <christirigby at pcisys.net>
Subject: RE: SC - barley bread

Gluten is a terrific thing for bread baking.  I use it in all my bread
recipes and they seem to raise so much better. But I don't cook period
breads, yet (I know bad Murkial).  But in all my regular and bread machine
recipes I add it for that extra lift.

Murkial


Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:52:44 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - flour, sugar and fat in the medieval diet?

The first thought which comes to mind is "which medieval diet?"  In general,
local foodstuffs were used, so diet is limited to what is locally available.
For example, the common grains in 6th Century Ireland are barley and oats.
These form a large part of the Irish diet.  At the same time, rye is more
common along the Baltic.  And in Central France there seems to be a mix of
wheat, barley, and various millets.  Wild birds and fresh water fish were
probably more common in the diet, beef less so, and wild game would be
dependent on the local laws (remember your Robin Hood).  

<snip of non-flour info>

By flour, I assume what is meant is wheat flour.  Barley, rye, oats, millet
and wheat were the common grains for making flour.  Where it was available,
wheat was favored, as it made the lightest, whitest bread.  On the medieval
economic scale, brown breads moved toward the poor while whiter breads moved
toward the rich. 

There is very little difference between medieval and modern flour,
especially stone ground, naturally aged flours.  Modern extraction rates are
higher.  95% average extraction compared to an estimated 85% optimal
extraction.  (Extraction rate is the percentage of grain milled to flour.)
But, outside of the development of the roller mill in the 19th Century, the
basic technology is much the same as when the Romans developed a rotary
quern.

Roller milling separates the germ from the kernal reducing the natural oils
in the flour, while stone milling, as was done in the Middle Ages, reduces
the entire kernal.  Following milling, the flour is bolted (or sieved) to
the fineness desired.  The medieval bolter was a cloth through which the
flour was passed to trap the bran and large particles.  For truly fine
flour, the process might be repeated one or two more times with finer weave
bolting cloths.  Muslin, linen and silk were all used in bolting cloths.
Because the germ was not removed in medieval milling, medieval flour would
have a slightly higher oil content and consequently a shorter self life than
modern flour.  

Some people are concerned that the heat and pressure of roller milling
destroys some of the nutritional value of the grain, but I have seen no
evidence to support the claim.

After milling, the flour was commonly aged for about two months or more.
Aging improves the baking quality of the flour and provides a natural
bleaching effect by oxidizing the xanthophyllus, which gives fresh flour a
slight yellow tint.  Modern flours may be naturally or chemically aged.  

Chemical aging uses chlorine dioxide, benzoyl peroxide, or chlorine gas to
age the flour, bleaching it in the process.  "Unbleached" flours may be aged
with potassium bromate or iodate.  Nutritionally, the only difference is the
small amount of vitamin E in the flour destroyed by the chemical aging, but
there are questions about the effects of the chemicals used.

Bear


Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:03:54 -0600 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - flour, sugar and fat in the medieval diet?

Despite Jacob's assertion that flour was not bleached, xanthophyll, the
carotenoid pigment which gives freshly milled flour a light yellow tint,
oxidizes naturally as flour ages.  Aging flour improves the quality of the
gluten.  If medieval flour was aged, then it was bleached.  What Jacob is
probably referring to is chemical "bleaching," which are actually techniques
to quickly "age" the flour.

I have a little difficulty with medieval flour being higher in fiber
components than modern flour because of the milling technology, especially
if you are talking stone milling.  The grain is the same, so the ratio of
nutritive to non-nutritive components is the same.  The grain is crushed to
a powder between two stones.  The percentage of the grain crushed to powder
depends upon the hardness and the closeness of the stones.  Optimal
extraction of flour from grain with a stone mill is about 85 percent, and
average extraction was about 75 percent (if 14 pounds of "chisel" per bushel
is any indicator).  We can get better extraction rates from stone milling
now with man-made stones and laser dressing, but those don't predate Jacob's
work. 

Jacob may have been comparing medieval stone milling with modern roller
milling.  Roller milling has a much higher extraction rate and provides more
useable flour for the same amount of grain.  In the case of wheat, it also
strips the vitamin rich germ and actually reduces the nutrional value of the
flour when compared to stone ground flour.

The cheapest brown breads were made from unbolted flour, which means the
bran and the large particles of unground grain remained in the bread.
Almost all modern flour is sieved, which leaves more of the nutritive
components in the same volume of flour.  It may be this fact of which Jacob
was thinking when he made the comment, but the decision to bolt or not bolt
is an economic choice rather than poor quality technology.

Bear

> Um, _6,000 Years of Bread_ states that the flour was not bleached, but
> also claims that due to the poor quality of the milling techologies, the
> flour of the middle ages tended to be very high in non-nutritive (i.e.
> fiber) components-- to the detriment of the health of those who ate the
> breads made of poorer flour. It's peculiar to think of it in this day and
> age, but apparently there was _too much_ fiber in medieval breads?
>  -- 
> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Semmel
Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 17:56:27 -0500 

Semmel is a small white roll made from fine flour.  Valois Armstrong, who
did this translation has translated Semmelmehl as being "grated Semmel."
However, Semmelmehl in general means "fine, white meal or flour," as has
been previously pointed out by Thomas Gloning.

The word derives from the Latin, "simila" meaning "fine flour."

Simnels, which are now crisp cakes with a marzipan topping, derived from an
earlier version which had a marzipan filling, and may be derived from a fine
loaf of enriched bread, although this last derivation is pure speculation at
this time.  The name also derives from "simila."

Bear

> While reading Sabrina Welserin, I keep coming across the the term, a
> grated Semmel.
>  What is this, a food item or a cooking implement?
> the web site is :
> www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html
>
> Beatrix of Tanet


Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 02:31:07 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Semmel

<< [1] Valoise Armstrong, who did this translation has translated
Semmelmehl as being "grated Semmel." [2] However, Semmelmehl in general
means "fine, white meal or flour," as has been previously pointed out
... >>

Re [1]: _grated semmel_ is rather the translation for German _geribne
semel_ in #37, #43, #46, #47, #72, #97 of Sabina Welser's cookbook.
(http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/sawe.htm for the German text)

Re [2]: _semelmell_ is a different case; sure, in general it means
"fine, white meal or flour (from which the semmels are made)"; however,
in a combination like _geriben semelmell_ (#44) I am inclined for the
moment to think that very finely grated semmels are meant. It depends.

Th.
(PS while we're on it: Sabrina or Sabina? -- Sabrina_Welserin.html (with
r) is the name of the FILE with the english translation. The name of the
PERSON is Sabina (without r) Welser/Welserin. Thus, talking to a
computer to request the file, don't leave out the "r". Speaking to
humans about the person Sabina Welser you can simply write "Sabina
Welser/Welserin".)


From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] angel biscuits
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:38:15 -0700

>I am under the opinion that the flours are the main
>key to why the old biscuit recipes never work out these
>days... or maybe it's memories.
>
>Johnna Holloway

I think Johanna has hit on the answer as to why regional breads don't seem
to translate from area to area.  I recently got the book _Cookwise by
Shirley O. Corriher, a food writer and "culinary sleuth" who specializes in
finding the scientific reasons Why things work as they do in food prep.  The
book has recipes, some from very famous chefs, some from people like my
grandmother (when she had anything to cook.  The Farm Depression hit long
before Wall Street fell).

At any rate she talks about 10 different flours:  Cake (Swans Down,
Softasilk) for cakes, quick breads, muffins, pancakes; Instant flours
(Shake&Blend, Wondra)for Sauce and gravy, blending to lower protein content;
Bleached Southern all-purpose (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red Band)
for Pie crusts, biscuits, quick breads, muffins; National brand self-rising
(Gold Medal, Pillsbury) Biscuits, quick breads, muffing; National brand
bleached all-purpose (Gold Medal, Pillsbury)	A little too much protein for
best pie crusts, quick breads, muffing, or pancakes; too little protein to
make outstanding yeast breads; National brand un-bleached all-purpose (Gold
Medal, Pillsbury) Yeast Breads, cream puffs;  Northern all-purpose (Robin
Hood, Hecker's) for yeast breads, cream puffs, puff pastry; Northern
unbleached all-purpose (King Arthur) for Yeast breads, cream puffs, puff
pastry, pasta, pizza; Bread flour for Yeast breads, pasta, pizza; and Durum
Wheat (semolina) for Pasta.

She lists the different amount of protein each type has in it.  The Cake
Flours have the least and produce lighter things like muffins and pancakes,
the higher like Durum with 13+ grams/cup produce things like pasta dough.

Your grandfather probably used a cake flour, or at least one that was
produced from soft wheat and that allowed his biscuits to rise more.  If
your family moved north where the grains grown tended to be more the hard
wheat variety that soft rise would have been reduced, and nothing would have
tasted the same.  Besides, it used to be a common joke that the wife could
never make biscuits as light as mom!  Luckily for my brothers wives my
mother was a Pharmacist who cooked because she had to, not because she
enjoyed it.

Regina


Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:20:55 -0800
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Semolina Sourdough

I think I missed the beginning of this. Semolina sourdough is pretty
common in medieval Islamic recipes--Murakaba, for example. The Recipe
for Folded Bread from Ifriqiyya in the Andalusian cookbook is baked
from semolina, but nothing in the recipe implies that it is raised.
Elsewhere the cookbook refers to "a tharid crumbled from white bread
crumbs and leavened semolina well kneaded and baked." Barmakiya uses
a leavened dough of semolina and ordinary flour. Taking the recipe
literally, you never let it rise, but that may well be a mistake in
the order of steps given.

Looking through the Andalusian cookbook, semolina sourdough seems
usually to be fried, not baked. But I haven't done a similar check
for ordinary flour. There are a number of references to bread made
from semolina.

I like semolina--it's less powdery than ordinary flour, hence
pleasanter to work with.
--
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:59:43 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] gravy
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

All flours are meal, but not all meals are flour.  Meal refers to whole or
ground grain although most people take it to mean ground (usually coarse,
but it can be used for any fineness).  Flour is finely ground (and often
sieved) grain.

Bear


Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:06:49 -0400
From: AEllin Olfs dotter <aellin at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Semolina, Khabisa with Pamegranate
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> My first mistake was not having semolina flour. I thought pastry and  
> bread flours were at one end of the scale and semolina/pasta flours at  
> the other, so for a substitute I chose some all-purpose flour.
>
> Stefan

No, pastry and bread flours are at the opposite ends. Pastry flours are
very low gluten, for a tender crumb. Bread flours are high gluten, so
the bread will rise. All purpose flour is blended to be in the middle,
so you can make either pastry or bread - and both wil be OK, though
neither will be as good as if you used the appropriate flour. But the
typical person doesn't do enough baking for it to make sense to have
several kinds of flour.

Semolina is made of durum wheat, which is high gluten. Pasta made with
it i higher protein, and more likely to cook up al dente. If you make
pasta with all purpose flour, it can come out pretty mushy, even if you
are careful (BTDT.) Fine for egg noodles, which are tender anyway
because of the egg, not so good for spaghetti.

AElin


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:08:44 -0400
From: Avraham haRofeh <avrahamharofeh at herald.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] was Libum recipe now whole wheat bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Thanks for the recipe Ardenia!  It got me thinking...  I bake a lot of
> yeast bread.  If it is whole wheat, usually half whole wheat, half bread
> flour.  I tried my recipe with all whole wheat flour, but as you can
> expect, it needs more leavening.  I had a cousin suggest a teaspoon of
> baking powder.  It was OK, but does anybody have a recipe for bread with
> 100% whole wheat flour with just more yeast perhaps?

Whole wheat flour, because of the presence of the bran, has less protein per
unit mass (or per unit volume) than white flour. Less protein means less
gluten, and therefore breads made with 100% whole wheat flour are unable to
support the gas bubble structure under the weight of themselves. You could
try adding some vital wheat gluten (look in the baking supplies near the
flour and yeast), but I suspect you will need at least SOME bread flour to
support the structure. At the least, look for flours specifically for bread
machine baking - they have the highest protein levels of any flour on your
grocer's shelf.

****************
Reb Avraham haRofeh
      (mka Randy Goldberg MD)


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:13:46 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] was Libum recipe now whole wheat bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Samrah:
> Thanks for the recipe Ardenia!  It got me thinking...  I bake a lot
> of yeast bread.  If it is whole wheat, usually half whole wheat,
> half bread flour.  I tried my recipe with all whole wheat flour, but
> as you can expect, it needs more leavening.  I had a cousin suggest
> a teaspoon of baking powder.  It was OK, but does anybody have a
> recipe for bread with 100% whole wheat flour with just more yeast
> perhaps?

My own experience has been that most of the whole wheat flour you're
going to encounter has (naturally enough) a lot of bran in it, and
the bran interferes with gluten extension (sort of). Essentially
introducing a lot of little flakes with semi-sharp edges into a mass
of strands cuts a lot of them.

If you're dedicated to using 100% whole-wheat flour, you might try
adding extra gluten (Arrowhead Mills sells this, and, I assume, the
King Arthur flour people), or you might find some whole-wheat
chappatti flour in an Indian market, which is fine whole-wheat flour
ground from hard durum wheat: the milling process is powerful enough
to reduce the size of the bran particles, and the hard wheat has a
lot of protein and produces a little more gluten than some other
whole wheat flours. Bread made from chappatti flour (not to mention
chappattis) have something of the texture of semolina bread. Maybe
not cloud-light, but lighter than most whole-wheat breads.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:25:07 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Libum recipe
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Cato's version of the recipe seems to call for a lot more cheese for an an
> approximately equal amount of flour and egg, if I'm remembering my flour
> weights (4 cups per pound).  Would Cato's cheese have been more liquid?
>
> Sandra

Another interesting question is would the flour have been wheat?  Barley was
the grain of choice during the Republic, giving way to wheat as Rome became
an empire.  The author of the recipe is Cato the Elder and predates the
Empire by around a hundred years.  The "fine flour" being called for in the
recipe might be barley flour rather than wheat flour.

Bear


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:52:54 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] was Libum recipe now whole wheat bread
To: <avrahamharofeh at herald.sca.org>,	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Whole wheat flour, because of the presence of the bran, has less protein per
> unit mass (or per unit volume) than white flour. Less protein means less
> gluten, and therefore breads made with 100% whole wheat flour are unable to
> support the gas bubble structure under the weight of themselves. You could
> try adding some vital wheat gluten (look in the baking supplies near the
> flour and yeast), but I suspect you will need at least SOME bread flour to
> support the structure. At the least, look for flours specifically for bread
> machine baking - they have the highest protein levels of any flour on your
> grocer's shelf.
> ****************
> Reb Avraham haRofeh

You're making some assumption which aren't necessarily true.  A whole wheat
flour does not necessarily have more bran than white flour nor does it
necessarily have less protein per unit volume.  Whole wheat flour has wheat
germ in it.  White or unbleached flour does not.  Protein is dependent upon
the protein content of the grain being milled.  Whole wheat and white flour
made from the same grain will have approximately the same protein content.
To produce whole wheat, commercial mills tend to return wheat germ and bran
to the flour, which does produce the effect you describe.

In the past, I've purchased a bulk whole wheat pastry flour which has very
little bran and is a soft flour between all purpose flour and cake flour.
King Arthur's White Whole Wheat Flour is a high protein whole wheat flour
that resembles unbleached flour.  Both of these flours are probably very
close to "thrice-boulted" flour and the latter makes a fine loaf of bread
although the former is probably closer to Medieval flours.

Bear


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:15:01 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]  whole wheat bread
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Until the 19th Century, most wheat flour was whole wheat.  Roller milling
separates the wheat germ from the rest of the grain giving us our modern
unbleached or white flour.  The separated germ became another product and
the bran that was sieved from the flour was used for animal feed.  Adding
bran and germ back into white flour to produce whole wheat flour is largely
based on the nutritional ideas of Sylvester Graham (1794-1851).  This flour
is often referred to a "graham" or "graham-added" flour.

Fine period whole wheat bread was made from well-sieved flour (thrice
boulted).  Graham flour isn't that fine, so the bread it produces is going
to be more like Medieval peasant bread.  For a good whole wheat loaf, find a
well sieved stone ground flour.  I personally like King Arthur White Whole
Wheat Flour (basically a fine whole wheat bread flour, don't use it for
pastries).

Get the highest protein percentage you can find.  Flour from hard winter
wheat is about the best.  King Arthur again.  If you can't get or can't
afford the King Arthur, find the best you can and consider running it
through a flour sifter to sieve out large particles.

You might try building your dough from a sponge, by adding the yeast to one
cup of water to proof, then stirring in two cups of flour to make a soft
dough.  Cover it and let it sit on the counter for 4 to 24 hours.  Break the
sponge apart in the remaining liquid for the recipe and continue with the
recipe from there.

Make sure you get the salt into the dough.

If it is still too bitter, adding a 1/4 cup of honey to the mix will sweeten
the dough (assuming a two loaf recipe).  I have found that most people
prefer the taste of whole wheat loaves made with honey.

Bear


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:32:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] whole wheat flour sources
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

King Arthur does do mail order, but it's pricey.  Check out their website to
see what the sell, but check with high end groceries or even bakery
suppliers to keep the costs down.  I've also found it in some health food
stores.  If you are into heavy baking, you might check with you local bakery
suppliers to see what they carry is specialty flours.  The quality is
usually better than the stuff in the grocery, but the quantities may be
prohibitive.

The bulk whole wheat pastry flour (their regular whole wheat was too
"grahamy" for me) was through a local health food store, who had a deal with
a mill in Kansas.  I doubt you will be able to find it.  If you do, it will
almost certainly be a health food store or a bakery supplier.

You might check California for some local mills which still stone grind
flour.  Stone ground hard winter wheat makes some of the best bread (but you
may have to bolt it if the mill won't handle that for you).

BTW, about the only King Arthur flour I use is the KA White Whole Wheat,
because it is a specialized flour that has few substitutes readily
available.  Where I have more selection and lower prices, I tend to go with
the flour that best suits the task at the lowest price.

Bear


Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 02:36:29 EDT
From: Jgoldsp at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Libum recipe
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

sjk3 at cornell.edu writes:
> Cato's version of the recipe seems to call for a lot more cheese for an an
> approximately equal amount of flour and egg, if I'm remembering my flour
> weights (4 cups per pound).  Would Cato's cheese have been more liquid?
>
> Sandra

Flour by weight is different from by volume as in the number of cups of  flour
needed in a recipe. A cup of white flour by weight is about 4 and a half
ounces wheat flour is slightly heavier by about half an ounce and stone ground
organic is the heaviest and produces the most chew in your product.


Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:50:15 -0400
From: Avraham haRofeh <avrahamharofeh at herald.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] whole wheat flour sources
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:25:09 -0700 (PDT), Samrah
<auntie_samrah at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bear, I know you are probably way out in Texas, and I am way over here in
> California, but where do you find this stuff?  Does this King Arthur do
> mail order?  And what sort of place would I be looking for to find bulk
> whole wheat pastry flour?

King Arthur Flour (www.kingarthurflour.com) does indeed do mail-order, but
they are also nationally distributed (the shipping costs on flour exceed the
cost of the flour itself). Check with your local grocer; if they don't have
KAF on the shelf, demand it! :-) Mail order, the whole wheat flours are
$3.50/5 lb bag ($3.25 if you buy 2 or more), shipping to California is $9.75
for 1, $13.44 for 2. They also have a wonderful Baker's Catalogue with all
kinds of goodies for bakers and cooks.
****************
Reb Avraham haRofeh
      (mka Randy Goldberg MD)


Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:56:31 -0400
From: Avraham haRofeh <avrahamharofeh at herald.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] whole wheat flour sources
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Kept the white regular flour in a tamale can.  Brown flour
> goes rancid though, and won't keep nearly as well.

That's because of the fats in the germ. Store it in the freezer, it will
keep longer than on the shelf.
****************
Reb Avraham haRofeh
      (mka Randy Goldberg MD)


Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:03:18 -0500
From: Marian Walke <marian at buttery.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]pretzels [was bagels]
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Stephen Bloch wrote:
(regarding bagels, pretzels, and his attempts to make pretzels)

>  From what I've read, commercial pretzels are sprayed with lye solution
> before baking<snip>
>
> I've tried it myself twice, with poor results <snip>
   I'll have to try again some time with ordinary bread dough.

I presume you know that flour can vary greatly in protein and
gluten content, from very soft to quite hard.  For pretzels and
bagels and such you want the hardest flour you can get.  In
period that would have been durum (in Italy and southern France)
or northern, Russian, or Middle Eastern wheat (in northern
Europe).  The English liked their native soft flour, but then
they didn't go in much for pretzels.

Nowadays, I'd use a bread flour (such as King Arthur unbleached)
if making it by hand.  If you have a mixer with a dough hook you
can use the King Arthur Special for Bread Machines, which is very
high gluten.

I suspect our modern American/Canadian hard wheats (bred from the
hardest Russian/Armenian strains) are even harder than the
strongest period flours.  But in any case, avoid "general
purpose" flours such as General Mills, Pillsbury, etc for this
purpose.  What King Arthur calls "General Purpose" flour is
already harder than the mainstream brands.  This is particularly
true in the Southern states, which have a preference for softer
flour, so the General Mills, Pillsbury, etc meant to be sold
there are formulated differently than the same brands sold in New
England.

Best of luck!  This is a good time to be making pretzels -- they
are one of the symbols of Lent.

--Old Marian


Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:34:10 -0400
From: patrick.levesque at elf.mcgill.ca
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FWIW
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Lady Anne du Bosc said:
>>>
In modern French, Flower is Fluer, Flour is Farine.  In French, they do 
not sound like the same word, so it is unlikely they would have been 
interchangeable.
<<<

I have to disagree with this - in period manuscript, 'fine fleur de farine'
always refer to a very fine grade flour. The expression is sometimes shortened
simply to 'fine fleur', or even just 'fleur'. Flour is generally implied.

When flowers are called for in recipes the plant is always mentioned (fleur de
rose, fleur d'oranger, etc...). Actually the plant name on its own would be
misleading (if I ask for rose, do I mean the petals, the whole flower, the stem
- ouch - ...)

I do not know when 'fleur de farine' became simply 'farine' but I would guess it
happened when milling techniques reached a level that allowed for a permanent,
easy and cheap production of finest grade flour.

Petru


Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:44:17 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <eduard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flower vs flour
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Jun 28, 2005, at 9:18 PM, Pat wrote:
> In modern French, Flower is Fluer, Flour is Farine.  In French,
> they do not sound like the same word, so it is unlikely they would
> have been interchangeable.

True, but things do change.

Another interesting note:  Cotgrave's 1611 French/English Dictionary
gives the following definition:

"Fleur de farine.  Flower, or the finest meale, also, meal-dust or
mill-dust."

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cotgrave/448small.html

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)


Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:49:19 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pea Flour/Bread
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Sadaf.com has chickpea flour.  An outfit in Canada called Century produces
commercial pea flour from yellow peas.  And there are a couple of Italian
companies that produce pea flours.

In general, pea flour is used in flat breads as it has no gluten to rise
properly.  Mixing it with wheat flour will produce a dough that will rise.
I would check "Flatbreads of the World" for recipes.

Texture of the finished product depends on how fine the flour is milled.

Bear


Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:09:04 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pea Flour/Bread
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Chick pea flour is readily accessible in any South Asian store that
sells food stuffs. It is called "besan".

It is often used in batter for deep fried vegetables or samosas.

It can be used for making Panisse, little fried chickpea patties
eaten in Provence during Lent, although cooked mashed chickpeas are
probably better.

I was so disappointed when Chez Panisse opened - back when it was
virtually unknown and you could just walk in a get a table and you
didn't have to sell your first born to pay for a meal - and they
didn't serve panisse...
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:25:56 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pasta making and baking with semolina flour
To: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mar 27, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Christiane wrote:
> I have a question for the bakers on this list. I have a couple of
> pounds of semolina flour acquired from the local Indo-Pak store.

I've used whole-grain durum chapatti flour, in addition to the more
common (around here) Italian-style yellow semolina flour. Is that
what you've got?

> My thought was to try and use it to bake some Southern Italian-
> Sicilian-style breads. Can this type of semolina flour be used for
> this purpose?

Sure.

> The same thing goes with pasta making. Any advice would be
> appreciated! I want to make my husband some ravioli!

My experience (and others' may vary) is that durum semolina, because
the grain is so hard, is difficult to grind really fine, so it can
behave a little oddly compared to other flours. Essentially, it takes
a little while for water to be fully absorbed, and full gluten
development doesn't really occur until the grain is moistened properly.

In general, what this means is you want to make an all-semolina dough
just a touch moister than those made with other flours; where other
recipes advocate adding enough flour to make a smooth, non-sticky
dough, you want your semolina dough to be just a touch sticky, and
you really want to knead the c® at p out of it, at which point it will
begin to acquire a more standard doughy texture. When making bread,
you should notice a dramatic difference in the texture of the dough
between the first and second proofings.

For pasta, the same principal applies: it'll be just a little sticky,
knead it to death, wrap/cover and let it rest a few hours in the
fridge, then knead it again and proceed as for any other pasta.

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 23:37:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Bayne <shonsu_78 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] types of corn bread?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> When I buy bags of cornmeal, I tend to end up not
> using it fast enough, and it gets buggy.  <<shudder>>

Try microwaving the whole bag when you first buy it.
Remove from the bag, nuke, then place in airtight
container after cooling. Throw the bag away. In EVERY
paper bag or box from the store you will have bugs of
some kind.

Lothar


Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:42:52 -0700
From: "Bj Jane Tremaine" <vikinglord at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Buggy grain meals/flours- was-Re: [Sca-cooks] types of
	corn bread?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

My Daddy worked in a mill.  He told me that you are allowed a certain
percentage of other stuff in flower or any grain.  This is usually eggs.
This is how we usually get bugs in flour.  But if you freeze the flour for
48 hours it kills the eggs.  Then store it in a air tight plastic or  
glass container, no bugs.

Jana


Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 15:59:04 -0400
From: "Tom Bilodeau" <gmt53 at ravenstreet.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW: Flour types
To: "'Kerri Martinsen'" <kerrimart at mindspring.com>,	"'Susan Lee'"
	<msalanea at cox.net>, <KristiWhyKelly at aol.com>,	<char.cook at equant.com>,
	"'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

FYI -

If any of you are doing cooking/baking and using German recipes which  
call for different flour types and how to find USA equivalents...

Tirloch

-----Original Message-----
From: Bakers [mailto:Bakers at KINGARTHURFLOUR.com]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:43 AM
To: GMT53 at ravenstreet.org
Subject: RE: Flour types

Thank you for writing. I have enclosed the information we have. I hope it
helps.

German flours are catagorized by the amount of "ash" in the flour, not the
amount of protein like American flours. This makes it hard to come up with
an exact replacement. There are some suggestions below:

Type 405 - .50 ash - Similar to American pastry flour

Try: item #3331 Unbleached Pastry Flour (9.2% protein, .42 ash)

      Item #3338 Italian-Style Flour (8.5% protein, .40-.45 ash) -  
This is the closest match, I think

Type 550 - .50-.58 ash - Similar to American all-purpose flour

Try: item #3005 Unbleached All-Purpose Flour (11.7% protein, .49 ash)

      Item #3323 Select Artisan Organic All-Purpose Flour (11.3% protein, .54
ash) - This is the closest match, I think


Type 812 - .64-.89 ash - Similar to American all-purpose flour, but higher
ash

Try: item #3334 French Style Flour (11.5% protein, .70 ash)


Type 1050 - 1.05 ash - Similar to American "First Clear" flour

Try: item #3337 First Clear Flour (14.8% protein, .80 ash)


Type 1600 - 1.60 ash - The closest you could get to this would be a
light-colored whole wheat flour

Try: item #3311 White Whole Wheat (13% protein, 1.80 ash)

You request information on American equivalents to German flours.

I contacted our Head of Bakery Education and he was able to give me these
translations.

Very White 404

Medium White/Whole Wheat 1050

Whole Wheat 1700

Medium Rye 1150

Slightly Darker 1370

Dark Dark Dark 1800


USA vs. European Flour

Every now and then, a customer asks what US flours are equivalent to flours
they have used for baking in Europe. European flours are sold by "Type" with
a corresponding number. Here is the listing; this is particularly
appropriate for German flours and the flours of bordering countries. The
flours in parenthesis represent the flours we offer that would best match
the type listed:

German /European Flour by Type Numbers

Wheat Flour:

Type 405 - is used for fine Pastries and Cakes - in Austria it is #480
(Round Table Pastry Flour)

Type 550 - is used for tender breads, biscuits, croissants, cookies, and
muffins, etc. (King Arthur Unbleached All Purpose Flour)

Type 1050 - is used for light grayish looking bread - light wheat flour
(White Whole Wheat Flour)

Type 1700 - is for used for hardy bread - dark wheat flour (Traditional
Whole Wheat Flour)


Rye Flour

Type 815 - for small pastries - ground very fine (White Rye Flour)

Type - 997 - or 1150 - for light rye bread - ground fine (White Rye  
Flour)

Type - 1150 - for regular rye bread - it is little darker then 997, but also
ground finely - and is called Graubrot (gray bread) (Medium Rye Flour)

Type - 1370 - dark rye bread, also used for mixed breads (wheat and rye) is
ground even finer (Medium Rye Flour)

Type - 1800 - whole grain rye used for basic for all full grain breads
(Pumpernickel)


These are specific types in Germany and close bordering countries.


Please contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Happy Baking,
Mary Tinkham

The Baker's Catalogue, Inc
800-827-6836
bakers at kingarthurflour.com

   _____

From: Tom Bilodeau [mailto:gmt53 at ravenstreet.org]
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:27 PM
To: Bakers
Subject: Flour types

I was wondering if you have a comparison chart for the various King Arthur
flour?

I am reading a bread book about German breads and the flour types they call
for are:

dinkelmehl type 630 (spelt flour) [Mary Tinkham] item 3452 organic white
spelt flour

weizenmehl type 550 (wheat flour)

weizenmehl type 1050 (wheat flour)

weizenmehl type 405 (wheat flour)

weizenmehl type 505 (wheat flour)

roggenmehl type 997 (rye flour)

mehl type 530 (white flour)

dinkelvollkornmehl (full grain spelt flour)[Mary Tinkham]  item 3453 organic
whole spelt flour

the book is called "Brot backen" and any information you have that could
lead me to finding the flour equivalent would be very appreciated.

Regards,
Tom Bilodeau


Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 19:01:32 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Flour types
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<<
> If any of you are doing cooking/baking and using German recipes  
> which call for different flour types and how to find USA equivalents...
>
> Tirloch

OK, can anyone tell me why Germans would be concerned about the amount of
ash in flour, and how the ash, rather than the protein, would affect its
baking qualities?

Saint Phlip
>>>

Ash is the mineral content by weight remaining as ash when a sample of flour
is burned.  The higher the ash content, the greater extraction of flour from
the original grain.

Bear


Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:04:11 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] FW: Flour types
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<<
On 5/23/06, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Ash is the mineral content by weight remaining as ash when a sample of flour
> is burned.  The higher the ash content, the greater extraction of  
> flour from the original grain.
>
> Bear

OK, then how does this affect the baking? And, why would the Germans use
this to grade their flour? Does this mean a more efficient milling process,
or what?

Saint Phlip  (almost Stefan, asking a question like this ;-)
>>>

All milling operations measure the ash in their flours to measure the
quality of their extraction and to maintain a consistency between runs of
flour.  Wheat germ has a higher mineral and protein content than the
endosperm.  Roller milling initially separates the wheat germ and the
endosperm, so you can mix them together to establish the extraction you
want.  For example, U.S. all purpose flour, which does not have much germ in
it is about 60 per cent extraction, finely ground whole wheat flour will be
near 100 per cent extraction.  Higher extraction flours will have higher
mineral and protein content.

The German Mehltype is measured by incinerating 100g of flour and weighing
the ash that remains.  The weight of the ash in milligrams is compared
against a set of extraction ranges to get the official type number
(essentially the number in the middle of each extraction range).

France uses the Type de Farine, which is an order of magnitude smaller than
the German types.  The French burn 10g and use the weight of the ash in
milligrams.

The U.S. and Great Britain do not use ash measures (although you can usually
get the information from the mill).  The U.S. requires the percentage of
protein by weight be in the nutrition label, which provides approximately
the same information as the flour type in Germany or France.  The difference
is German and French flours are standardized nationally, in the U.S. the
flours are not standardized and percentage of protein in the same type of
flour may differ between manufacturers.

Bear


Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:35:39 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question about flour
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

<<< On Jan 4, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Elaine Koogler wrote:

> I am going to be baking a Middle Eastern cookie called "Virgins Breasts".
> However, the recipe calls for semolina flour.  How different is from the
> unbleached plain flour I already have?  Is there a great diference
> between the regular unbleached flour I already have and the semolina?
>
> Kiri

Semolina flour is traditionally coarser in grind and higher in gluten
than regular bread or AP (or what the British call "plain") flour...

Adamantius  >>>

There's a traditional Italian cookie called "Minne de  
virgine" (Virgin's breast). Usually made by Sicilian bakers for  
consumption on St. Agatha's Day (she whose boobs were cut off in  
martyrdom). I am wondering if the Middle Eastern cookie was inspired  
by the Sicilian, or vice versa. Today's confection is quite baroque;  
iced white with marzipan and cherry nipples.

The semolina flour we usually can get in the states is coarser in  
grind; think Red Mill's flour for pasta (which also makes good rustic  
bread). Semolina comes from durum, or hard, wheat. Our white flour is  
made from soft wheat, and that is what we usually use in baking.  
However, in Italy and other places you can get a finer-ground durum  
flour, which can be used for cakes and pastries (today's baker  
prefers the soft wheat flour for cakes and cookies, though). It will  
take more liquid and the final result will be coarser crumbed. If you  
have an Indian grocery store near you, look for pane puri, which is  
ground finer than the typical pasta semolina from Red Mill, or maybe  
a gourmet specialty store will carry finer-ground durum wheat flour.

Hope this helps!

Gianotta 


Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:59:01 -0600
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question about flour...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Very different. Semolina is a hairline finer then corn meal. And the
semolina meal is a hairline coarser then cornmeal.

From a website:
"There are difference grades: (1) Semolina flour is finely ground endosperm
of durum wheat; (2) Semolina meal is a coarsely ground cereal like farina;
and (3) Wheatina is ground whole-grain wheat."

I use the flour in making Halva.
I was told once that a person could make a nut free marzipan using semolina
as the nut substitute and add extract but I have never gotten around to
making marzipan.
De

-----Original Message-----
I am going to be baking a Middle Eastern cookie called "Virgins Breasts".
However, the recipe calls for semolina flour.  How different is from the
unbleached plain flour I already have?  Is there a great diference between
the regular unbleached flour I already have and the semolina?

Kiri


Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:21:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question about flour
To: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Thanks to both Adamantius and Gianotta for their responses.  My problem is
> that I haven't been able to find any kind of semolina flour in the town
> where I live...I'm kind of out in the "boonies"...I could order it online,
> but I doubt it would get here in time for me to make the cookies for our
> event on Jan 13!  I was just wondering what the effect might be if I used
> regular flour instead.  But from what you guys are saying, I probably
> shouldn't even try unless I have semolina flour.  Maybe I'll go  
> online and see if I can find the flour you menton, Gianotta!
>
> Kiri

Try Bob's Red Mill, I think they ship pretty fast:
http://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/index.php?action=express

If they can't, use the unbleached white flour and don't worry about  
it, especially if the cookies are supposed to be iced or something  
that would hide their color anyway. Yes, the texture won't be the  
same, you will have to add less liquid. Will you share the cookie  
recipe with us? I'm really curious to see if they are at all similar  
to the Sicilian cookie, or if the name is coincidental. Since  
Sicilian cooking was so heavily influenced by Arabic cooking, it'd be  
interesting to see if the Arabic sweet was adapted to a Christian  
purpose!

Gianotta


Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:22:03 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question about flour
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Kiri, try to find semolina flour. It really makes a huge difference
in the finished product. It gives a certain characteristic flavor,
texture, and color to Near and Middle Eastern baked goods.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 06:53:06 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Flour Query
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

You might want to mention what flours are readily available today.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/list.jsp? 
pv=1171021254742&select=C79&byCategory=C128

http://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/index.php? 
action=showproducts&category_ID=30

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/recipes/kitchentips/flour.html

Here's the flour advisory bureau from the UK
http://www.fabflour.co.uk/home.asp

There are a number of books that address flours. Shirley Corriher who did Cookwise has been working on a baking book that ought to address flours. There is information in Cookwise about what qualities different flours offer.
And there's always Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery.

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:06:43 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rice Flour was Period Flour Query
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Rice Flour actually shows up in medieval English recipes.
To make floure Rys appears in the Harl. Mss 279 Leche Vyaundez
page 38 in Two fifteenth-century cookery-books :
Harleian MS. 279 (ab 1430), & Harl. MS. 4016 (ab. 1450)

xxij - For to make floure Rys. Take Rys, an lese hem clene; then drow
hem wyl in the Sonne, that they ben drye; than bray hem smal y-now; and
therow a crees bunte syfte hem, and for defaute of a bonte, take a  
Renge.

Johnnae

Aldyth at aol.com wrote: snipped
> In one of the shortbread discussions it mentions adding rice flour to the
> (see list of flour) for making it crumbly.  At the risk of being really  dumb,
> did shortbread originally have rice flour in it? I just have a hard time
> visualizing rice paddies in Scotland.  :-))Aldyth


Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:22:17 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Shortbread was Period Flour Query
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Incidentally, does anyone have a good explanation of why you bake the
> flour first?
> -- 
> David Friedman

If you bake flour you improve the flavor.  Baking kills the raw flour  
taste and usually brings out a slight nutty flavor.

Bear


Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:39:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Shortbread was Period Flour Query
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, David Friedman wrote:
> Incidentally, does anyone have a good explanation of why you bake the
> flour first?

the manual for army cooks, 1883 and 1896 editions mention to brown the
flour used to thicken drippings for gravy. my brother and i experimented
with this back in 1995. the browning of the flour definitely removes the
flour taste and imparts a slightly nutty flavor. a side-effect is that
the gravy is not lightened by the use of plain white flour.

my brother, a military historian, also thinks based on anecdotal and
comtemporary writings of enlisted solders and quartermasters, that it
may have been recommended to kill off any parasitic infestations in the
flour.
-- 
terry l. ridder ><>


Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:45:59 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Shortbread was Period Flour Query
To: "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, David Friedman wrote:
>>  Incidentally, does anyone have a good explanation of why you bake  
>> the flour first?
>
> the manual for army cooks, 1883 and 1896 editions mention to brown the
> flour used to thicken drippings for gravy. my brother and i experimented
> with this back in 1995. the browning of the flour definitely removes the
> flour taste and imparts a slightly nutty flavor. a side-effect is that
> the gravy is not lightened by the use of plain white flour.
>
> my brother, a military historian, also thinks based on anecdotal and
> comtemporary writings of enlisted solders and quartermasters, that it
> may have been recommended to kill off any parasitic infestations in  
> the flour.

The problem with these explanations is that, so far as I know,  most
other recipes using flour don't have any similar
instructions--although I could be wrong, since I'm not that familiar
with late period recipes.

That suggests to me that there is something special about this sort
of recipe that requires baked flour, but I have no idea what. Clearly
experimentation is called for.

But of course, it might be connected with some difference between
their flour and ours; I have no idea what sorts of processing beyond
grinding, and sometimes bleaching, modern flour goes through.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:48:59 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Shortbread was Period Flour Query
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

In general, there is no great difference between Medieval and modern flour
other than the percentage of extraction, especially if you choose an
unbleached, whole wheat flour.

Other than improving the flavor, roasting coagulates the gluten, which, I
suspect will produce a more granular texture.  I haven't run any  
experiments to see what would happen with unroasted flour.

Bear

> That suggests to me that there is something special about this sort
> of recipe that requires baked flour, but I have no idea what. Clearly
> experimentation is called for.
>
> But of course, it might be connected with some difference between
> their flour and ours; I have no idea what sorts of processing beyond
> grinding, and sometimes bleaching, modern flour goes through.
> -- 
> David/Cariadoc


Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:44:11 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flour
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I did a little checking in McGee.  Carbohydrates are broken down in the
brown process.  Since thickening depends on the carbohydrates, the darker
the brown the more carbohydates are transformed the less the thickening
power.

Toasting flour in an oven will do the same thing, but for baking the flour
is lightly toasted.  If you toasted the flour to the point you would for a
brown gravy, your bake goods will come out over baked.

Bear


Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:05:26 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flour experimentation
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Check the nutritional information on the bags.  Gold Medal All Purpose is
10% protein.  High gluten bread flours are up around 14% protein.  Soft
flours usual run 9% down to about 7%.  If you want to match traditional
European flours, soft flours are the closest match, but you can fudge  
with the Gold Medal.

In the past, I have been able to get bulk whole wheat pastry flour from a
local health food store, which is probably as close to period European flour
as you are going to get.  Both Arrowhead Mills and Bob's Red Mill produce
whole wheat pastry flour.  Quite a few groceries carry one or the other or
both and might be willing to special order for you.

The problem with cake flour isn't that it's "enriched," it's that most cake
flours are chlorinated to bleach them white, however neither chlorination
nor enrichment seems to affect the baking.

Bear


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:32:40 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flour experimentation
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Well, when I looked at the website for King Arthur flours, the description
> each variety said it was made from hard - usually red_ wheat.  If their
> marketing people say one of their flours is good for every use, perhaps it
> is.  Or perhaps that's just how marketing people present their products.

King Arthur cake flour is about 9% protein, the lowest of any KA flour.
That would put it within the range of traditional European flour.

>  When I want to make a dough that is kneaded I will go for the higher
> gluten flour every time.  Everything I have read indicates that hard
> wheats have more gluten.

"Hard" and "soft" refer to the protein content of the flour a wheat produces
and the traditional method of testing a flour's protein content by squeezing
a handful.  In general, the lower the protein, the finer the milling, the
more compression ("softness") in the hand.

>  Southern flour is made from soft wheat, which is lower in gluten. I find
> making tender piecrust and biscuits much easier with southern flour.  How
> much of that is my upbringing I cannot say.

Southern wheats tend more to yellows which are usually softer than reds.
White Lily is about the softest commercial flour available.

>  Some period recipes say take the whitest flour you have.  I would take
> this instruction to possibly mean use the flour which browns more slowly,
> which lower gluten flour does - at least in my limited experimentation
> thus far.
>
>  Cordelia Toser

"White" in this context refers to a finely milled, thrice bolted flour that
has aged for six or more months.  Freshly milled flour has a yellow tinge
from the xanthopyll it contains.  Aging provides a natural bleaching making
the flour look whiter.  The finer the milling, the more surface area exposed
to the aging process.  Bolting removes the bran and any larger unmilled
pieces.

Bear


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:59:35 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flour: reading the label
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

>  Oh yes, matching traditional European flour is my goal.  I am not
> convinced that malted barley was added in period, and that is the main
> reason I want to avoid the enriched stuff that is commonly available.

Malted barley flour (diastatic malt) provides enzymes that help break down
the starches in flour to more effectively feed the yeast.  It also provides
a little sweetening.  It may not have been added to period European flour,
but the equivalent would have been added to the dough of any recipe calling
for ale barm leavening, so I wouldn't worry about.

>  I would prefer unbleached flour, if it weren't for the higher
> gluten/protein.  From my reading it would seem that bleaching agents used
> in the preparation of flour do a similar job to naturally aging the
> flour - at least as far as the color is concerned.  I'll get some
> unbleached flour and seal it up for a couple of years to see what  
> happens to the color.

Nothing will happen to the color of the unbleached flour.  By the time it
hit the grocer's shelf, the flour had already aged longer than most Medieval
flours.  By the time you see it, the xanthophyll is already naturally
bleached.  Naturally aged flour is cream colored rather than stark white.
There is also the possibility that the bleaching process may damage the
gluten, as Betsy Oppenneer contends in Celebration Breads.  Personally, I
used unbleached flour because it will be closer to the period norm.

>  Why do you feel that whole wheat flour is what the noble households used
> for everything?  This was an era when whiter food was more desirable,
> which would lead me to think that whiter flour would be used in royal
> kitchens.
>
>  Cordelia Toser

Period flours are stone milled, which means that wheat flour was whole wheat
flour (milled from the complete wheat berry).  Modern roller milling, which
separates the germ from the endosperm, is a product of the 19th Century.  I
haven't encountered any period descriptions of separating the germ from the
rest of the kernal or any information about the milling technology that
would suggest that it occurred.

European wheat of the day would likely be a yellow rather than a red wheat
and produce a lighter colored flour (similar to King Arthur's "white whole
wheat") than the brown (being milled from a darker wheat berry) whole wheat
flours that are common today.  Starting with a lighter colored wheat then
milling it fine, sieving it through three boltings and allowing the flour to
age produces about the whitest flour of the day.

Bear


Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:55:16 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period flour
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Bear mentioned:
>  <<< Check the nutritional information on the bags.  Gold Medal All Purpose is
> 10% protein.  High gluten bread flours are up around 14% protein.  Soft
> flours usual run 9% down to about 7%.  If you want to match traditional
> European flours, soft flours are the closest match, but you can fudge
> with the Gold Medal. >>>
>
> From this thread it sounds like most modern bread flours are harder
> flours with more protein than what was used in most of period Europe.
> Why this change? Do the high gluten/high protein flours grow better
> these days or yield more? Are they better for machine driven
> agriculture? Or is there some other reason they are preferred?

In the 19th Century, hard red wheat was hybridized to produce greater yields
and be more resistant to various plant diseases at about the time Australia,
Canada, Argentina and the U.S. were becoming the major grain producers in
the world.  The wheat was best suited for the plains areas of the world.
The flour produced made better bread, so the hard reds became the most
readily available wheat in the world.  Because they produced better bread,
European bakers chose them over the softer local flours.

Einkorn was the initial wheat, but emmer was easier to thresh and produced
better yields and became the most common wheat in Antiquity.  Club wheat,
which produced better yields, took over from emmer between 500 and 800 CE.
Modern wheat is a hybridized club wheat and the hybridization has been an
ongoing process since club wheat overtook emmer.

The entire issue is mostly a matter of what produces the most, the best and
the amount of effort required in the production.

> <<< In the past, I have been able to get bulk whole wheat pastry flour from a
> local health food store, which is probably as close to period European flour
> as you are going to get.  Both Arrowhead Mills and Bob's Red Mill produce
> whole wheat pastry flour.  Quite a few groceries carry one or the other or
> both and might be willing to special order for you.>>>
>
> How does the bread differ, especially the period breads we know of,
> when it is made with a harder wheat than when made with the softer,
> pastry flours that are apparently closer to those of period Europe?
>
> I'm still keeping the back of mind the idea that the reason that
> medieval Europeans didn't make/use the sandwich is that their bread
> wasn't conducive to sandwich making. Perhaps the type of flour enters
> into this. Or maybe not.
>
> Stefan

You get a better rise with the harder wheats, but the variance between 7%
and 10 % protein content is not particularly noticeable.  All Purpose Flour
is blended to be useable in recipes requiring hard or soft flour, but is not
necessarily the optimal choice.

Medieval bread would work just fine in sandwiches.  I suspect it was  
used for sandwiches, but doesn't appear in any observation that was  
written down.

Bear


Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:50:47 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Is anyone familiar with this source?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> When I was researching cereal grain for my research paper I came  
> across this reference.  Is it too early?
>
> Moritz, L.A., Grain-Mills and Flour in Classical Antiquity  
> (Oxford,  1958)
>
> Aldyth

This is a classic text on the evolution of milling technology.  You should
find the information on rotary mills of particular interest as this was the
standard milling technology from Late Antiquity until the development of
roller mills in the 19th Century.  For those interested, Ox-Bow Books  
has an edition for around $20.

You might also want to check out Watts, Martin, The Archeology of  
Mills and Milling, also available from Ox-Bow.

Bear


Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:00:36 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What is samidh flour?

On 3/21/2011 12:12 PM, David Friedman wrote:
<<< Nasrallah's translation of Al Warraq repeatedly refers to "samidh 
flour (high in starch and bran-free)." Does anyone know, in modern 
terms, what that would be? I've mostly used semolina, since that shows 
up frequently in other period Islamic recipes, but I have no reason to 
think it's actually right and it probably isn't. >>>

I am looking at the glossary of that volume, Thank You Google Books!  
And they define Samidh on page 573 in a way that would have me using 
"cake flour", soft and fine, low in gluten, free of bran.

*http://books.google.com/books?id=dUC-e-l3XM8C&pg=PA561&lpg=PA561&dq=samidh+wheat&source=bl&ots=IZxE5C8dNP&sig=xFqzlX-KnbyDAB_VC6dNfYCksgE&hl=en&ei=Qq2HTcCOGYPCsAOM_-35AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=samidh%20wheat&f=false

Selene Colfox


Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:15:40 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What is samidh flour?

I'm thinking this may be emmer (AKA starch wheat) rather than semolina 
(durum), although fine semolina is better than all purpose flour.  Emmer is 
generally lower in protein and higher in starch than Semolina.  Pastry flour 
has roughly the same properties as emmer flour, so it can be substituted. 
However, this too is speculation.

Bear


Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:19:08 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What is samidh flour?

I was thinking cake flour also, but I realized cake flour has been 
chlorinated to enhance the properties.  A better bet is probably pastry 
flour which, while having slightly less starch, is probably closer to what 
could be had in period.

Bear

<<< I am looking at the glossary of that volume, Thank You Google Books!  And 
they define Samidh on page 573 in a way that would have me using "cake 
flour", soft and fine, low in gluten, free of bran.

Selene Colfox >>>


Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:18:44 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Barley

On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:31 AM, fairegirl2001 at yahoo.com wrote:
<<< On the gode cookery website there is a recipe for Keftedes in the  
Byzantine section.  It asks for barley ground into a flour.  Would  
pearl barley be the apporiate barley to use?

Merraede >>>

Bob's Red Mill sells barley flour.
http://www.bobsredmill.com/barley-flour.html

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:04:12 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Barley

For a Medieval flour you would probably want to use hulled barley (barley 
groats) which has the outer husk removed but retains the bran.  Pearled 
barley has both the husk and the bran removed.  On the practical side, it 
shouldn't matter whether you use flour from hulled or pearl barley and I 
would simply buy it rather than mill it.  Hodgson's and Bob's Red Mill have 
barley flour that you can find at the grocery.

Bear


Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 21:04:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Schneider <schneiderdan at ymail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Barley

<<< On the gode cookery website there is a recipe for Keftedes
in the Byzantine section.? It asks for barley ground
into a flour. Would pearl barley be the apporiate
barley to use?
Merraede >>>

Do you mean to grind into flour? If it's all you can get, it'd give you a type of barley flour, but the pearling process removes the bran and germ leaving just the starchy bit; this not only takes away most of the barley's nutrition, but IMO quite a lot of the flavour as well- it's like the difference between white and whole-wheat flour. I'd suggest you check the local health food shop, and see if they carry barley flour, or barley groats (cracked barley) if you have a grinder; actually a lot of supermarkets seem to have health food sections you might find one or the other in. 
If you're thinking of using the pearl barley as is, then I don't think it'd work at all

Dan


Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:05:07 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: "mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>, 	sca-cooks
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	Madrone Culinary Guild
	<mad-cul-gld at antir.sca.org>, 	west-cooks <west-cooks at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Flour Bolting

Greetings!  Here is a page or two about flour sifting/bolting which 
might be of interest:
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/millbuilder/boulting.html

Alys K.


Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:00:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beans and Flour

<<< This may say more about how often I buy flour than anything else, but is 
the amount of protein/starch given on the flour sack? Or can you only go 
by such titles as "cake flour", "hard"? or "soft" flour? or by selecting 
specific brand names?

I can see where someone's "cake flour" might differ in composition from 
someone else's.

Stefan >>>

You'll find protein and carbohydrate percentages listed in the ingredient 
label.

Hard and soft refer to the percentage of protein in the flour.  The higher 
the protein (the gluten), the harder the flour.  White Lily is roughly 2 
percent protein.  All purpose flour runs around 9 percent.  Bread flour runs 
12 percent and above (King Arthur bread flour is 14 percent, IIRC).  The 
hard and soft come from an old test for gluten, where you compress a scoop 
of flour in your hand.  The higher the protein the harder the flour feels.

Cake flour is a soft, very finely ground flour which may contain additives 
such as malted barley flour.

Specific brands use mixtures of wheats to produce a consistent product. If 
you know the percentages for the brand and type of flour, you can easily 
select by brand.  If you don't or you're looking for something special, read 
the ingredient label and choose the flour that best suits your needs.  If 
you don't have an idea of what you need for a project, an all purpose flour 
should get you in the ball park.

Bear


Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:47:42 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] What Samidh Flour Isn't

Lots of al Warraq's recipes specify samidh flour. I have usually 
interpreted that as semolina, following out Charles Perry's suggestion, 
but there isn't much evidence. Nasrallah, the translator, mentions two 
similar kinds of flour of which the samidh has lower gluten. That 
suggests that perhaps I ought to be using ordinary bread flour, or even 
cake flour, as per our recent discussion.

So I decided on an experiment. I've done the recipe for crumbly crackers 
multiple times using semolina, and been happy at the result. They keep 
well and my daughter likes them, so too many isn't a serious problem. 
Finally, the recipe specifies quantities for flour and water, by 
weight--both measured in ratl's, giving an unambiguous ratio. I mixed up 
two batches, one using cake flour and one using ordinary all purpose flour.

The recipe tells you to knead vigorously then set aside to ferment. In 
the case of the cake flour, that was impossible, because using the ratio 
by weight specified in the recipe produced something closer to a batter 
than a dough--not kneadable. The regular flour wasn't quite that bad 
when I initially mixed it up, although it was pretty wet, but by the 
time it had fermented for ten hours, my usual, it too was too liquid for 
the final kneading. I ended up putting in about half again as much flour 
in each as the recipe called for.

I don't know whether samidh is semolina but it could be. It can't be 
anything very close to either of the other two flours I've tried.
-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:25:12 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What Samidh Flour Isn't

On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:47 PM, David Friedman wrote:
<<< Lots of al Warraq's recipes specify samidh flour. I have usually interpreted that as semolina, following out Charles Perry's suggestion, but there isn't much evidence. Nasrallah, the translator, mentions two similar kinds of flour of which the samidh has lower gluten. That suggests that perhaps I ought to be using ordinary bread flour, or even cake flour, as per our recent discussion.
snipped

I don't know whether samidh is semolina but it could be. It can't be anything very close to either of the other two flours I've tried. >>>

With regard to flours, I ran a search for what is recommended or if anything is actually mentioned for use in Middle Eastern recipes. 
What do other authors in contemporary kitchens say--

Habeeb Salloum, author of the new Scheherazade's Feasts, seems to specify just flour or a mix of whole wheat and regular flour in this article.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/salloum135.html
----
King Arthur flour suggests a mix of their flours for various flatbreads 
for instance
2 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
5 cups King Arthur Unbleached Special Bread Flour
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/pizza-and-flatbread

They offer 8 flours under the category yeast bread and pizza. Their Italian flour is listed as a "00". 
The "00" refers to the grind of the flour, and how much of the wheat's bran and germ have been removed, not to its protein level. There are low-, high- and in-between 00 flours. Our version is one of the lower protein ones.
8.5% protein.

------

Oman Flour Mills http://www.omanflourmills.com/dahabi.html
lists a number of flours with descriptions. Here are some--

White Flour
A premium quality, medium strength flour with a moderate protein content; ideal for soft breads, cakes and pastries.

Flour No.2 (ATTA)
A medium strength flour, characterized with a high bran content, most commonly used for making breads of the Indian Sub-continent and Far East such as Chappatti, Naan, Kulcha and Puri.

Main Top Flour 
Another of our premier class flours typified by a high gluten content, enabling the dough to stay unbaked for extended periods. A specialized flour for professional bakers.

Lebanese Bread Flour 
Produced from selected hard wheats, this top quality flour is ideally suited for the wide variety of Arabic Breads made in the Middle East.
French Bread Flour 
A high gluten content characterizes this strong flour which makes the best crusty French Baguettes.
-----
Najmieh Batmanglij uses all purpose for barbari bread.

http://www.najmiehskitchen.com/pdf/fol_barbaribread.pdf
-----

This article from 1995 is interesting-- On the Flatbread Trail Written by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/199505/on.the.flatbread.trail.htm

Wheat is discussed here:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/201301/pasta.s.winding.way.west.htm

I suspect in the end it's going to require a blend of some sort and what works for you in California may not work as well
in Denver or in NYC.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:14:49 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What Samidh Flour Isn't

It's worth noting that Nasrallah's standard description of samidh flour 
is "high in starch and bran free."


Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 23:28:36 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What Samidh Flour Isn't

Sweet Delights from a Thousand and One Nights: The Story of Traditional Arab Sweets has arrived.

On page xv, they define samidh as "in medieval recipes, a type of flour."

On page xvii, they write "There are also times when we simply used our tastebuds in cooking. A case in point is samidh, an ingredient called for in a number of recipes. Nawal Nasrallah's definition of this type of flour is that it is a finely ground flour, while Charles Perry on the other hand, explains that samidh is coarser than flour. (A Critique' 4, 37). For certain recipes, we tried both flour and extra-fine semolina. The extra-fine worked out well taste-wise and texture-wise. this type of semolina is available in Middle Eastern and Mediteranean markets."

The critique is of course the one from PPC
https://prospectbooks.co.uk/samples/Baghdad-critique.pdf

Nawal Nasrallah writes there: "About sam?d,
Perry left it untranslated because "it might refer to a particular kind of wheat." It sure does, but you also wonder why Perry did not himself try to find out what it is for his readers. According to medieval sources, sam?d in the eastern region of the Islamic world is a particular kind of fine flour, bran free, high in starch content, and low in gluten."

Charles Perry replied "On sam?d I must differ with Nasrallah.
Sam?d referred to a coarser product than flour, as shown by the fact that poppy seed is ground to sam?d (meal) in several recipes, rather than to flour (?a ??n or daq?q), just as poppy seed is typically ground to meal today."  

Johnnae


Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 11:32:31 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Emmer flour as samidh?

<<< Someone suggested that emmer wheat might be the samidh in al-Warraq's 
recipes. I can find suppliers online, but they all seem to be supplying a 
whole wheat version. Al-Warraq specifies that samidh is low in bran, which 
I assume a whole wheat emmer would not be.

Am I making a mistake? Alternatively, does anyone have a source for emmer 
flour that does not include the bran?

-- David Friedman www.daviddfriedman.com >>>

Until the mid-19th Century and the introduction of roller milling all flour 
would have been whole grain with the bran included.  The question is whether 
or not the flour has been bolted to remove the coarse bits leaving fine 
flour.  If the bran and the shorts (coarse fiber byproducts AKA cellulose 
and cell structure material) are too coarse for your purposes, sieving the 
flour through a 40-mesh (610 micrometer) sieve should produce a flour 
equivalent to the finest Medieval flours.

Bear


Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 12:49:47 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What Samidh Flour Isn't

Looking at the etymology of "samid(h)" from the Aramaic for barley bread, 
the current meaning appears to be "fine wheat flour."

Wright translates the word as "semolina" in The Mediterranean Feast, but 
since semolina proper is the coarse middlings from the milling process, I 
believe both he and Nasrallah are using semolina to mean durum flour.

Nasrallah states, "According to medieval sources, sam?d in the eastern 
region of the Islamic world is a particular kind of fine flour, bran free, 
high in starch content, and low in gluten."  If this is true, then we are 
considering a finely milled wheat flour, probably thrice bolted.  High 
starch, low gluten suggests either a hulled wheat or a soft variety of T. 
aestivium (common wheat).  The cultivated hulled wheats are einkorn, emmer, 
spelt and durum.  By the time of al-Bagdahdi, einkorn was no longer in 
general cultivation, emmer was in general use but was losing ground to 
common wheat, spelt usually produces too coarse a flour to be considered 
"fine," durum was cultivated, but is more closely associated with North 
Africa, it is higher in gluten than the other hulled wheats.  From the facts 
I currently have available, I would expect "samidh" to be either emmer flour 
or a fine whole wheat pastry flour, with durum coming into greater use 
toward the end of the Medieval period.

Just a thought.  The precise definition of "samid" may vary by region.  The 
assumption that the recipes in al-Bagdadhi are Persian recipes may be in 
error.  Some of them may be recipes collected elsewhere and included in the 
collection, thus producing the definition discrepencies noted in the crique 
and response.

Bear


Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 22:27:37 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Emmer flour as samidh?

<< Does this mean that for all period recipes we should be using whole wheat 
flour rather than white flour? >>

On 9/1/13 9:32 AM, Terry Decker wrote:
<<< Until the mid-19th Century and the introduction of roller milling all 
flour would have been whole grain with the bran included.  The question 
is whether or not the flour has been bolted to remove the coarse bits 
leaving fine flour.  If the bran and the shorts (coarse fiber byproducts 
AKA cellulose and cell structure material) are too coarse for your 
purposes, sieving the flour through a 40-mesh (610 micrometer) sieve 
should produce a flour equivalent to the finest Medieval flours.

Bear >>>

Yes.  However, when fine wheat flour is called for, the period bolting 
process produces a roughly 75% extraction rate.  The average flour from your 
grocer's shelves have an extraction rate of roughly 72%.  Flour has a fat 
content from the wheat germ.  In one study, modern (probably roller milled) 
whole wheat had 2.76% fat content, while 64% extraction flour had 1.40% fat 
content.  There is a difference in the fat content of flours produced by 
roller milling which removes the germ during the first pass (making a 
separate salable product) and stone milling which does not remove the germ 
before bolting may alter the fat content of the flour, but I have no data on 
the extent of the difference.  Roller milled whole wheat has the germ 
returned to the milling and should produce no appreciable difference in fat 
content between the two processes.

Unless you are trying to accurately reproduce a flour, such as emmer, durum, 
or spelt flour, something like King Arthur's Unbleached White Whole Wheat or 
an unbleached all purpose flour should be adequate for most purposes, 
although the fat content may be lower than period flours.

Bear


Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 20:01:16 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] effect of fat content in medieval flour

Bear said:
<<< Unless you are trying to accurately reproduce a flour, such as emmer, 
durum, or spelt flour, something like King Arthur's Unbleached White Whole Wheat 
or an unbleached all purpose flour should be adequate for most purposes,
although the fat content may be lower than period flours. >>>

I imagine you may have said this before, but what sort of effects does the 
fat content make in the use of the flour?

Is this 2.76% vs. 1.40% fat enough to affect the taste or structure? Was 
this enough to make the medieval bread to seem softer or richer?

Stefan
=================================

The percentage of difference in crude fat content (from wheat germ) is so 
low as to have negligible effect in baking.

The critical number is the extraction rate.  At 100% extraction (nothing 
removed), the flour retains all of the moisture, crude fat, crude protein, 
crude fiber, ash, and nitrogen free extract (soluble carbohydrate:  sugar 
and starch).  At 100% extraction, all of these reduce the qualities of 
taste, texture, flavor, chewiness, and color.  Bolting removes cruder 
particles from the finer grains of flour, which removes much of the crude 
fiber (bran) and ash, some of the protein and some of the fat (germ).  Lower 
extraction flours also retain less moisture.

According to Best's Farming Book (1641):  "in every bushell of meale that 
commeth from the mill there is neare a peck of chizell drossed out."  As 
there are four pecks to the bushel, one quarter of the flour is dross to be 
removed to produce finer flour to be used in white loaves.  This suggests an 
extraction rate of roughly 75%.  That is roughly equivalent to the 
extraction rate for normal flour.  A loaf made from modern flour, water, 
yeast and salt will be very close to a Medieval loaf.

If you want to delve a little deeper into the mysteries of extraction, you 
might see if you can find these papers:

Y. Pomeranz, Wheat Chemistry and Technology, vol. 2. American association of 
cereal chemists Inc., St. Paul, Minnesota, pp. 99-101, 1988.

R. Venkateswara, G. D. Indrani, and S. R. Shupalekar, "Effect of milling 
methods and extraction rate on the chemical, rheological and bread making 
characteristics of wheat flours," J. Food. Sci. Technol., vol. 22, pp. 
38-42, 1985.

J. Qarooni, E. S. Posner, and J. G. Ponte, "Production of tanoor bread with 
hard white and other US wheats," Lebnsm. Wiss. Technol., vol. 26, pp. 
100-106, 1993.

J. Qarooni, R. Bequetter, and C. Deyoe, "The performance of U.S. hard whit 
wheat : effect of milling extraction on flour, pan bread, tortilla, and pita 
(arabic) bread quality," Lebnsm. Wiss. Technol., vol. 27, pp. 270-277, 1994.

Bear


Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 20:06:34 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] effect of fat content in medieval flour

From: "Susan Lin" <susanrlin at gmail.com>
<<< question - can you just add some additional fat to make up the difference
or won't that work?  If so should it be vegetable fat or could you use
animal fat? >>>

Don't worry about it.  The difference is 1 ounce in 6.25 pounds.  It's 
negligible in baking.

If you were going to add it, finely ground wheat germ would be better than 
any animal or vegetable fat.

Bear


Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:47:27 -0400
From: Stephanie Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flour

From the Domostroi again, just for reference:

A note for those making flour: If you take ten measures of wheat to be
ground into flour, you will get back three and a half measures of fine
meal, three measures of white flour, five measures of coarse flour, and
three measures of unsifted grain. From each measure of meal you can make
twenty loaves, and each measure of white and coarse flour will make twenty
loaves also. People typically give out two bags of salt for each measure of
finely ground flour and one bag of salt for each measure of coarse flour.

AEschwynne


Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 16:24:13 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Emmer flour as samidh?

On 9/8/13 12:29 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
<< When i made some recipes from al-Warraq, i used pastry flour for samidh, 
based on Nasrallah's description.

Have you tested that yet? >>

David Friedman wrote:
<<< I've tried cake flour--I'm not sure if that's the same thing. Using the 
quantities for crumbly crackers given in Nasrallah's translation, you 
get something closer to a batter than a dough, hence not kneadable, 
which is inconsistent with the recipe's instructions.

Did any of your recipes have sufficient information so that you could do 
that kind of test? >>>

I wanted to make flat bread, based on a mix of things i read - i did not follow any one specific recipe. Because of the lack of clarity and contradictions, i started looking into flours to see which was most suitable. According to what i found:

Cake flour has a 6-8% protein content and is made from soft wheat flour. It is chlorinated to further break down the strength of the gluten and create a smooth velvety texture. This extra process does not seem particularly like what was done in period, so i didn't use cake flour.

Pastry flour has 8.5-9.5% (or 8-10%) protein and is made from soft wheat flour. Apparently it is called "cracker flour" in some places. It is good for cookies, pastries, cakes, etc.

Modern all-purpose flour has 10-12% protein and is made from a blend of hard and soft wheat flours. Bread flour has 12-13% protein and is made of hard wheat and has a high gluten content. Semolina flour also has 12-13% protein and is a type of hard wheat.

Naturally, modern analyses do not include samidh flour... If it is semolina as Charles Perry says, it would be very high in gluten. Whereas if it low in gluten as Nasrallah says then pastry flour is probably close.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)


Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 01:08:36 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Flour storage

<<< Should I transfer my flour to something like a tupperware container, 
rather than in its paper bag? I'm not like you, Bear, I only make 
something out of flour a couple of times a year. :-) it's also why I 
buy in small bags, but I did use up the bag I just bought on the two 
batches of wafers. Luckily I still had a larger five pound sack on 
the shelf. >>>

http://www.eatbydate.com/other/baking/how-long-does-flour-last-shelf-life-expiration-date/

Proper food storage is the key to extending the expiration date of 
food. The best way to store flour is in its original container in the 
pantry, but also inside of a plastic bag or airtight container. All 
varieties last for a longer period of time if they are stored in a 
cool, dry environment. It should also be kept in a vapor proof 
container because the powder easily absorbs nearby odors and 
chemicals from anything around. When the bag is opened, it can be 
poured into another air tight container. Or, the original bag can be 
placed inside of a plastic bag for extra protection.
The shelf life of whole grain flour can be extended by several months 
by storing it in the fridge or freezer, but this is not recommended 
for white flour as the expiration depends upon it remaining 
completely dry.

My only comment is that the bags that flour are sold in are usually 
NOT air tight.  For extended storage, I'd put the whole bag into 
something else.

I have a plastic container on wheels with a gasketed lid that holds a 
25 lb bag of flour at a time.  It sits in a corner of my kitchen, but 
I can pull it to where I'm working when I am doing a lot of baking. 
Even so, you can smell the difference if it gets more than 3-4 months 
old.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2165/flour-open-discussion-about-aging-and-enriching-flour

This is a discussion about aging flour.  Basically wheat fresh from 
the field can be deficient in gluten, if it wasn't aged before 
milling, the flour needs to age for a month before using it.

Ranvaig


Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 16:05:03 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Flour storage

It takes about six months for flour to reach the stage of color we consider 
unbleached.  Commercial flours don't usually hit store shelves until after 6 
months, so the issue is generally moot.

Unless one has really high humidity, air absorption isn't an issue and the 
quantity of water that will damage flour will also damage grain.  Barreled 
flour is densely packed and may prevent water penetration for more than a 
few inches around the perimeter.  Grain immersed in the same conditions is 
looser packed, will absorb water and expand, as in Hornblower and the rice 
shipment.

There are advantages in grain for long term storage, but milling beyond the 
saddle quern is an industrial process, so one may need to store flour. 
Storage is usually barrels, bags or ceramic pots.

I usually keep my flour in the refrigerator packed in airtight containers 
which keep out mice and insects and helps keep the germ in hole grain flours 
from going rancid.  I have several types of wheat, barley, and rye flours on 
hand, but only in small quantities.  For serious baking, I buy large 
quantities of flour immediately before and store the remaining flour to use 
on a more normal project.  I'm in Socorro at the minute and will likely use 
up my stock for Christmas.

Bear
---------------
Bear replied to me with:
<<< Chlorine bleaching is a modern process to produce super white flour.  I
prefer to use unbleached flour, but that is a personal choice rather than a
requirement.  Freshly ground flour tends to have a yellow cast.  Letting sit
for a few months lets it bleach naturally. >>>

Okay, I tend to use unbleached white whole wheat King Arthur whole-wheat 
flour. Are you saying that it continues to bleach, sitting in its sack?

Now my sack sits on the shelf in an inside, controlled environment. What is 
the best way to store it, these days? How was flour stored in medieval 
times? How was it kept dry? It seems like the more you had as flour instead 
of grain, the more likely some of it would pick up moisture and go bad.

Should I transfer my flour to something like a tupperware container, rather 
than in its paper bag? I?m not like you, Bear, I only make something out of 
flour a couple of times a year. :-) it?s also why I buy in small bags, but I 
did use up the bag I just bought on the two batches of wafers. Luckily I 
still had a larger five pound sack on the shelf.

<<< Grain and meal have the same problems and chances of being damaged.
Interestingly, barreled flour actually has a better chance of withstanding
immersion because the outer layer of the flour may form a protective dough. 

Isn't flour more likely to pick up moisture in the air, and be damaged that 
way, compared to whole grain? Or is this what you are talking about above, 
that the flour creates a sacrificial shell of flour?

I made more wafers and snow for my family?s white elephant gift exchange 
tonight. It went over even better than at the SCA Yule. And for once, I didn?t 
bring my flyer listing the ingredients and where to find the recipes. :-(. I 
should have.

One suggestion was to replace the rose water in the snow with rum, although 
I think they liked the rose water. Couldn?t be period then, though. They 
were wondering about the rose water and where I bought it.

Stefan

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	flour-msg	Page 57 of 57