bread-msg – 11/30/18

Medieval breads and grains. Recipes. Flour bleaching. Rising agents.  Bread for feasts.

NOTE: See also these files: breadmaking-msg, BNYeast-art, flour-msg, yeasts-msg, bread-stamps-msg, bread-stuffed-msg, brd-mk-flat-msg, brd-mk-sour-msg, fried-breads-msg, brd-manchets-msg, leavening-msg, trenchers-msg.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: bloch at thor.ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch)
Date: 29 Jun 90 00:15:29 GMT

DEW%PSUECLC.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Baron Dur) writeth:
>I ran an experiment this weekend!  You can bake bread in a wok!  I used a
>standard bread recipie, a wok, and a pizza screen.  I put the dough on the
>screen in the wok, covered it, and baked for 40 minutes.  [puns omitted]

I believe Cariadoc mentioned, perhaps a month past, a dish called
"rampart-bread", "muqawwara" in the original Arabic.  I have made this
dish at two or three Wars with reasonable success.  In brief:

Make a yeast-leavened bread-dough, most of the liquid being eggyolks.
Let it rise.  Forming it into a disk shape (say, a foot across and a
handsbreadth thick), FRY it on both sides in a large frying-pan with
butter.  Then take it out, cut out the middle at a 45-degree angle
(not breaking the bottom), crumble the stuff you cut out, mix the
breadcrumbs with chopped almonds and pistachios, and sprinkle it back
into the cavity in alternating layers with melted butter, honey,
sugar, and a sprinkle of rosewater.

I was surprised that the bread cooked through without burning on the
outside.  I rested the pan directly on the coals left over from
breakfast; if you prefer a softer crust, you might put it a few inches
above the fire.  A more detailed description, with quantities and (my
translation of) the original recipe, may appear in the Winter T.I.
--
Stephen Bloch
Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
>sca>Caid>Calafia>St.Artemas
bloch at cs.ucsd.edu


From: crf at pine.circa.ufl.EDU (FEINSTEIN)
Date: 20 Mar 91 22:33:00 GMT

BREAD:  If you want "real" ale barm, talk to a homebrewer!  No doubt a few
dregs could be reserved.  :-)  As both a brewer and a cook, however, I have to
offer a caution:  these days, yeasts are pure strains, not the wild mix which
the medievals would have used.  Thus, any brew dregs wouldn't work very well or
very quickly.  As an alternative, you might want to try my favorite trick:
substitute ale for some or all of the water in your bread recipe!  Admittedly,
it's not the "real thing", but it surely does work better, and it also tastes
much more like the "real thing" than if you used ale dregs!  Frankly, it's
produced the best, and probably the most accurate-tasting, results I've
obtained.  Because when I've used real ale barm, I couldn't taste the ale and
the bread didn't have such a good web.  When substituting ale for water, the
bread looks good, tastes of the ale, and smells and tastes WONDERFUL! 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)
Subject: Re: Medieval cooks didnt make bread
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 16:41:30 GMT

>>In London, there were *two* guilds of bakers, the Brown Bakers and the White
>>Bakers.  (One baked only brown bread, the other only white bread.)
>>
>>    Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com]

>Interesting indeed! Where did you find this? And were both
>guilds subject to the same Assize of Loaves? (or is it Assize of
>Bread?)

>Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)
>Barony of Namron, Kingdom of Ansteorra

Old Marian commenting here:
 (major source: C Anne Wilson, "Food and Drink in Britain" - at least, I 
think that's the title - my much-used paperback lost its cover a few 
years ago! Items in square brackets [] are my own comments.)

Medieval bread was not just divided into white and brown - there were 
several gradations, and since the same names were not used in all places, 
there is some confusion about where each kind of bread was placed in the 
spectrum from whitest to brownest.  However, quoting from Wilson:

"The best white wheaten bread, made of the finest flour which had been two 
or three times sieved through woollen and linen bolting cloths, was in 
the Middle Ages called wastel bread (from the Norman French GASTEL or 
cake) or pandemain (probably originally from PANIS DOMINI, the 
sacramental bread, because that was made of the most delicate flour 
obtainable....  Cocket, another fine white bread, but a slightly less 
expensive one, was produced until about the beginning of the 16th 
centruy.  But before that time the name manchet had begun to be applied 
to white bread of the finest quality.  Manchets were made up as rather 
small loaves: in Elizabeth I's reign they were supposed to weigh 'eight 
ounces into the oven, and six ounces out', and forty were to be made out 
of the flour bolted from one bushel of corn [i.e., wheat].  Bread 
described as being 'of whole wheat' was of wheat flour more coarsely 
sieved than that used for wastel or cocket; while a still coarser and 
more branny wheat bread was made under the name of 'bis' or 'treet'."

Wilson says all these breads were taken into account in the Assize of 
Bread, which was in operation (with many amendments) from 1267 (our 
earliest extant version) through 1815.  There may be earlier versions no 
longer extant; it is said to date back to King John (ca 1200).  In large 
towns there were variants of the Assize to cover local variations in bread.

"In London the white bakers and the brown or TORTE bakers for a long time 
had separate guilds.  The 'White Book' of the city of London laid down 
'that a tourte baker shall not have a bolter nor make white bread'.  His 
brown bread was to include all the husks and bran in the meal, just as it 
came from the mill.  But he was permitted to bake the dough which people 
brought to him ready made up [a function bakers served for people who 
made their own dough, but did not have their own ovens], and to make 
horsebread of peas and beans.  In Ipswich, on the other hand, the bakers 
who baked the fine white loaves...were also allowed to make treet bread 
from the leavings, after they had sieved their meal and removed the 
whitest and finest flour....

The same farthing could buy you a given amount of finest white wastel 
loaf, or twice as much brown or treet loaf.  It bought you a loaf of 
cocket a little larger than the finest white wastel or a wholewheat loaf 
weighing half again as much as the cocket or a loaf of "other cereals" 
weighing twice as much as the cocket.  However, the actual amount of 
bread you got for that farthing varied from Assize to Assize; the object 
was to keep the price of bread steady, and the weight of bread you got 
for your farthing varied according to the success of harvests and other 
economic factors.

"The rougher breads of servants and laborourers and their families were 
made of of maslin [mixed rye and wheat] or the local grain: rye in 
Norfold, barley in northwest England, lowland Scotland, parts of Wales 
and Cornwall, oats in upland Wales and the Pennines and the Scottish 
highlands...."  [So what kind of dark bread you ate depended on where you 
lived as well as your social status.  The reason for these regional 
variations was that wheat demands a longer growing season and better soil 
than were present in the upland and rocky areas.  And remember, these 
variations were all just for Britain, which all together is only about 
half the size of the state of California.  Imagine the variations you get 
when you're looking at the whole of Europe.  This is why there is no ONE 
"Medieval Bread"!]

As for the combining of the two London guilds: According to Wilson, in 
1304 there where 32 brown and 21 white bakers.  In 1574 there were 36 
brown and 62 white bakers.  They joined in the 17th century, and the 
separate guild of brown bakers disappeared.

[However, it should be noted that lots of craft guilds amalgamated as time 
went on, probably to have more clout as one large than as several small 
guilds.  In the 16th C you start seeing combined guilds of "Carpenters 
and Joiners" or "Masons and Tilers" or "Weavers and Dyers" or "Cooks and 
Innkeepers."  So joining the brown and white bakers may have reflected 
the temper of the times as much as the demand for brown bread in London.]

--Old Marian
(Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, East Kingdom (marian at world.std.com) 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: bread (was Re: meadmaking help.....)
Organization: NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:10:41 GMT

Elizabeth David, in her book "English Bread and Yeast Cookery", has a
chapter titled "Manchets and Mayn and Payndemayn", which includes the
recipe posted about two messages back from this, plus one from Gervase
Markham, "The English Hus-wife", 1615, and a modern version.  (Mostly
scaled down, since the posted recipe wanted half a bushel of flour and
David notes that a bushel was 56 to 60 lb, which makes somewhat more
bread than many of us are interested in).  Scattered throughout the
book are information about how bread was cut in c. 1508 (from "the
Boke of Kervynge) and a number of period and near-period recipes
(Kendal Oatcakes from 1698, for example).

If you want to know everything to know about English bread and yeast
cookery, buy this book.  It's really excellent--it tells you
everything from which stone to use in your mill onward.  It's in print
in a US version and is ISBN 0-9643600-0-4 (the original, British
edition has a different ISBN).  Even if you never bake a single thing
from it, you'll enjoy reading it and you'll learn a lot from it.

This book finally explained to me why English supermarket white bread
is so dreadful (even worse than Wonder Bread)--it contains, quite
legally, a great deal more water than does its US counterpart.
--
Mary Shafer                                                
SR-71 Chief Engineer   NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
shafer at ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov  
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:16:25 GMT

Kevin Riley  <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
>This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
>recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
>flat piece of metal).  If anyone can tell me what might have been used
>to substitute for the baking soda...

I don't know if it is period, but Spirits of Hartshorn (aka Baker's
Ammonia and ammonium carbonate) was (and still is) used in northern
Europe in cookies before patent baking sodas became popular in the
1800s.  However, these make very crisp cookies, which isn't what
anyone would want in bannocks.

However, I'd suspect, based on Elizabeth David and the author of "In A
Scots Kitchen", that bannocks originally weren't raised at all but
were more like hoecakes or other unleavened biscuit.  It's unlikely
that they'd be yeast-risen, like a sourdough, because oats have no
gluten at all to trap the CO2 produced by yeast.
-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:37:02 GMT

rosalyn rice <rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>In article <3252CE4E.1513 at radix.net>, Kevin Riley  <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
>>TJorDan001 wrote:
>
>>This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
>>recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
>>flat piece of metal).  If anyone can tell me what might have been used
>>to substitute for the baking soda...
>
>       I just got a tanatalizing bit of information about what might 
>have been a period substitute for baking soda - baking soda.
>
>       Acipius suggests cooking green vegetables with "Nitrum" so that they 
>keep their color. Nitrum is a form of natural soda. It is possible that 
>such a thing could have been used as a leavening agent, though I 
>seriously doubt it. It doesn't appear as an ingredient in any medieval 
>recipes, and commercial baking sodas/powders appear to be a 19th c. 
>invention. (All this from Harold McGee "On Food and Cooking")

Commercial, or "patent", baking powders are a mixture of sodium
bicarbonate (baking soda) and cream of tartar.  Cream of tartar forms
deposits on the outside of wine barrels, where it can be scraped off.
Comprehensive cookbooks even provide formula for substitution.

Nitrum, to keep vegetables green, sounds like baking soda.  It's well
known that a pinch of baking soda will keep vegetable a vivid,
unnatural green (while destroying the vitamin content, especially
vitamine C).  It also gives the vegetables a chemical taste
-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Date: 4 Oct 1996 08:06:30 GMT

yehudahben at aol.com (YehudahBen) wrote:
> From Lady Agnes   Is it possible that they used Sourdough at least for
> some of their baking ?

Yes. Pretty clearly sourdough was used in period. Charles Perry, who knows
quite a lot about medieval Islamic cooking, believes that it is what the
recipes mean when they talk about leavening.

David/Cariadoc
-- 
ddfr at best.com


From: troy at maestro.com (Philip W. Troy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Bread, In period
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 10:01:02 -0400
Organization: Toad Computers

rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) wrote:
> Kevin Riley  <lindo at radix.net> wrote:
> >TJorDan001 wrote:
> >This doesn't exactly answer the question about ovens, but here's a
> >recipe for Bannocks that can be cooked either on a griddle (or other
> >flat piece of metal).  If anyone can tell me what might have been used
> >to substitute for the baking soda...
> 
>         I just got a tanatalizing bit of information about what might 
> have been a period substitute for baking soda - baking soda.
> 
>         Acipius suggests cooking green vegetables with "Nitrum" so that they 
> keep their color. Nitrum is a form of natural soda. It is possible that 
> such a thing could have been used as a leavening agent, though I 
> seriously doubt it. It doesn't appear as an ingredient in any medieval 
> recipes, and commercial baking sodas/powders appear to be a 19th c. 
> invention. (All this from Harold McGee "On Food and Cooking")
> 
>         Lothar

It's always been my impression, probably from something in the
Flowers/Rosenbaum translation of Apicius, that the Roman cooking soda was
sodium carbonate, a.k.a. Washing Soda. Sodium Bicarbonate does the same
thing, from a culinary standpoint, producing a bright green in vegetables
no matter how badly they're overcooked by modern standards. Since they
would have been cooked nearly to a puree by Roman cooks, this would have
been an issue.

As regards the use of eggs and/or soda in bannocks, to render them
toothworthy, I believe the first thing used to lighten and tenderize them
would have been fat of some kind. Modern oatcake recipes generally call
for some kind of fat, either butter or lard, to be rubbed in, as in a pie
crust recipe. They are, of course, rolled pretty thin, and have a
cookie-like texture.

The problem with using either eggs or fat is that they tend to shorten the
shelf-life, a great inconvenience to soldiers on the march. Probably they
would have stuck to the earliest forms of the sgian (scone) which would
have been a crisp, toasted, oatmeal-and-water pancake. Otherwise, there's
always hard-tack or biscuit, which is the equivalent of Melba toast, more
or less. A regular yeast bread, sliced and toasted till perfectly dry,
hence the term bis-cuit, or twice cooked. Sailors ate a form of it too.

Of course, good bread would have been available when sacking a town,
sometimes...

Gideanus Tacitus Adamantius


From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
From: pat at lalaw.lib.CA.US (Pat Lammerts)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Camp Bread, In period
Date: 9 Oct 1996 20:57:22 -0400

>There is a new edition of the Ed Wood book on ancient sourdough
>breadmaking techniques out. I'm not at work so I don't even know the EXACT
>title, but I will post info tonight or tomorrow. He points out that
>sourdough culture was THE method for leavening up until very recently.
>It's a really good read and has lots of recipes.

Here is the book that MtheU wrote about:

Wood, Ed, 1926-
  World sourdoughs from antiquity / Ed Wood. -- [Rev. ed.]. -- Berkeley, 
Calif. : Ten Speed Press, 1996.
  ISBN 0898158435

$16.95 per Books in Print.

Huette
(pat at lalaw.lib.ca.us)


From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14th Century Bread
Date: 10 Feb 1997 16:11:46 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

Morgan E. Smith <mesmith at freenet.calgary.ab.ca> wrote:
>Until this century, the majority of bread was made with sour dough
>cultures, not the types of commercial yeasts we have today. ...

Well, that's half right.  Commercial "cake" yeast is a
twentieth-century invention, and commercially available
granulated dried yeast is probably not much older.  But it's not
the case that all period yeasts were of the sourdough type that
had to be kept wet in a crock.  The stuff sporulates, after all,
and under adverse conditions goes into offline mode till better
times come back.  One of the ways to keep yeast between uses was
to dip a twiggy branch or bush into the yeast froth and allow it
to dry.  To begin a new batch of ale, you'd swish the branch
through the starting liquid and infect it with yeast spores, who
would then wake up, cry "Chow's on!" and get to work. A bush hung
up to dry over the alehouse door was a signal that the hostess
had just finished brewing.  In the same way, kneading troughs used
week after week for bread would become impregnated with the spores,
and you had only to pour in the liquid and work the flour in to get
it enough yeast to get it to rise nicely, leaving a new crop of spores
in the trough in the process.  (Cf.  Dorothy Hartley's _Food in
England._) 

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                          Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                                     djheydt at uclink


From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14th Century Bread
Date: 11 Feb 1997 13:12:29 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.

dvick at crl.com (Donald E. Vick) wrote:
>In article <32fbc2c3.3925262 at news.avalon.nf.ca>,
>Barbara <bjluby at avalon.nf.ca> wrote:
>>I, too, am curious about the ingredients used in late
>>14th century (English) bread.  Would the people of
>>this period have had access to salt for bread-making?
>>
>>Can bread be made without salt? without yeast?
>
>     From my experience, bread can be made without either of these.  It
>will not be as good a texture, and in the case of omitting the yeast,
>it will take several times as long to rise.  This comes of having to
>wait for natural yeasts in the air to invade your dough, rather than
>artificially introducing yeasts.  
>Hugh the Barefoot

Good Gentles,

It's true that period recipes are not as thick on the ground as other 
types of recipes. It was such a basic part of everyday life, at first, 
and then people began baking for a living (and who would willingly part 
with their professional secrets?).

Some recipes call for adding ale barm as leavening (which, technically, 
probably produced a *rise* after a long period. The lees probably have 
more live organism content. Or so I have been corrected by a Master 
Brewer. Perhaps period ale yeast was acting differently---I believe 
Guiness' Brewery's strain may be the only continuing strain from any 
where near our period into the present) But I digress.

Souring bread dough need not take place in the dough itself. My favorite 
recipe is from Colonial America, in a cookbook obtained from French 
Azilum, which supplies the steps for a starter so soured that the bread 
makes you pucker. Even so, souring agents have a rise and fall 
taste cycle, and so at different parts of their life they may be 
relatively "normal" tasting to the average modern bread eater.

The method (off the top of my head) goes like this:

Mix flour, a little sugar or honey and water and a little milk(because 
you want the milk-type yeast, which produces the souring agents) to form 
a batter the consistency of *pancake* batter, to make 2 pints (approx). 
Put this in a jug that holds about 2 qts. Put the jug, loosley covered, 
into a pot with 2-3 inches of lukewarm water (stockpot size will do). 
Cover and let stand overnight in a warm place. In the morning you should 
have a foamy mass that is an active yeast culture (If not, then just let 
the jug stand on the counter until it begins to foam. This could take 
an extra day if the climate won't cooperate!). Use this to make bread in 
the normal fashion, except: use half the mixture for your bread 
leavening, and put the rest back for tomorrow's bread, with more flour 
and liquids/sugars to bring it up to 2 pints. This will prodice enough 
leavening for 2 one lb. loaves. They do rise a little slower, and 
slightly oddly(retaining the squareness of the pan, for instance, instead 
or rounding like you would be used to in a modern loaf).

My Husband loves this bread. Can't keep it in the house. I make a normal 
milk loaf with this leavening. OTOH, my kids hate it. It isn't 
wonderbread!

I understand that period white flour was the consistency of modern 
biscuit flour. However, the masses would have made bread out of anything: 
Barley flour (I broke a mill on that one!), ground peas and beans 
(pulse), oatmeal, *whole* wheat or rye, or any combination of the above.
Manchet bread recipes ARE available from period sources. i suppose it was 
considered sufficiently high-class to retain these recipes.

Hope that helps.
Aoife 


From: willow at dowco.com
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:07:02 -0700
Subject: SC - Leavening for Breads and Cakes

Dearest Lor Mandrigal of Mu:

Joy, rapture, huzza's - finally there is something I know a little 
about!  I can finally impart some knowledge to someone else, since I 
have been soaking up learned discourses for the last few weeks, much 
like a sponge.

There are a couple of ways that were used to make breads without the 
introduction of processed yeast.  One is the use of a potato starter.  I 
must admit, I don't know the details of this one, but I know where I can 
find them, so will post tomorrow.

Yeast left from brewing, either ale or wine, was also used, at least in 
the historical books I have on English, Scot, Irish and Welsh baking in 
the period from the 11th to 16th century.  I have no reason to think 
that the same procedure wasn't used in the rest of the world.  I don't 
think that I would like to bake with the lees of brewing, though.  But 
again, maybe that is only my taste.

A sponge was also made and left to sit out for a day or two (much like 
sourdough) to collect wild yeasts.  It works well, but again, it is much 
like sourdough.

The French did - and still do - use something called a levain.  It is a 
pc of dough kept from the last batch of bread and used to introduce 
yeast into another batch of dough.  Mind you, it takes 3 days to make a 
loaf of bread.  1 day to culture the levain; one day to make the sponge 
and then, the third day to bake the bread.  But what heavenly, crusty 
bread it is.  Since I have learned to bake it, I always have levain 
handy.  It will keep in the refrigerator for at least 2 weeks (the 
longest I have kept it), but it must come to room temperature before 
using.

Enough for now.  I remain,
Brigid Morgan ap Crawford of Shrewsbury


From: willow at dowco.com
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:53:26 -0700
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Hello to all

Hail Charles:

I too am interested in bread baking in the old manner, though I seem to 
have specialized in the English, Scotch, Irish branches of the craft, 
with some French and Italian thrown in for good measure.  I have had a 
hard time translating (Middle and Olde English seems like a foriegn 
language sometimes!) as well as adapting the recipes.  Breaking down the 
flower from a bushel or peck to a manageable level is difficult at the 
best of times.  Some -or I might say most - 12th century recipes use the 
left-overs from ale making to leven bread, though that practice seemed 
to have lessened with the advent of manchet and white flours.

I think I have finally mastered trenchers - they have to be made with 
whole meal flour and left to harden for four days before using.  I have 
tried to use them fresh with disasterous results and much leaking of the 
juices from vegs and meat.  I am having an Elizabethan feast for a few 
friends on the Queen's birthday, so I will have a chance to test my 
theories.

I would delight in exchanging views and recipes with you, either through 
SCA or privately. I am very new to SCA - a half-dozen weeks, maybe, but 
I have always had an abiding interest in all things ancient and that 
includes food and -mostly - breads and cakes, which were usually nearly 
the same, less yeast.

Yours in service to the dream, I remain

Lady Bridgid Morgan ap Crawford of Shrewsbury
willow at dowco.com


From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:46:54 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Scottish Recipes

Sue Wensel wrote:

> The most difficult thing about a quintessentially Scottish feast is the amount
> of baking soda called for in everything we think is Scottish.  Unfortunately,
> to the best of my knowledge, baking soda and baking powder aren't period
> (please, somebody tell me I'm wrong!!)

Interestingly enough, I have read that the standard period substitute
for baking soda was generally: nothing. The theory goes that most baked
goods contained some kind of fat for shortening, and the farmwives, or
whoever did the baking, had very "light" hands. The trick was to work a
dough JUST enough to get it to hold together, and no more. So no excess
gluten development. In addition, most European bakers in period used a
softer wheat flour than we are used to - both because of the extent to
which the meal was processed, but also because of the variety of wheat
used. So, breads were probably considerably heavier than we are used to,
but not as tough as we might expect them to be under the circumstances.

Almost as interesting is the fact that the Romans used what we now call
washing soda for cooking, but not for baking. 

Adamantius


From: Deloris Booker <dbooker at freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:20:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Greetings

Re Yeast in period,

May I refer one and all to two books: 

English bread and yeast cookery : Elizabeth David

Food in England : Huxley (long oout of print, but now available again in a
vastly overpriced edition from Little Brown)

Both books spend a lot of time on yeast in english cookery.

Aldreada of the lakes


From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:32:37 EDT
Subject: Re: SC - Leavening for Breads and Cakes

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:06:15 -0700 dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
writes:
>As I recall there was a National Geographic or some such
>that talked about the Egyptian beer and bread process,
>and in fact re-created bread, baked in something that look
>a lot like a clay flower pot, these were large loafs
>I think 5 or 8 pounds, my memory is vague,
>The people there all ate the bread, chewy and good.
>
>Susan

The article was "Bake Like an Egyptian" in Modern Maturity, Sept./Oct.
1996.  The author was Ed Wood, who raises wild sourdough cultures on his
Idaho ranch and is the author of _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_, Ten
Speed Press, 1996.  He and archaeologist Mark Lehner, working with the
National Geographic Society, recreated how the ancient Egyptians baked
bread.  Lehner discovered the ruins of two bakery rooms dating to around
2500 B.C. near the Giza pyramids.

There's a recipe for Pita Bread and suggestions on how to make your own
sourdough starter.  He puts 1 C. bread flour and 1 C. room temp.
water--probably a good idea to use distilled water, or something that
would not have all the fluorides, et al, that come out of our taps--in a
medium bowl.  Cover with cheesecloth to keep out 'visitors' he says. 
Weather should be 70 degrees at least.  Not a problem in Trimaris.  ;-) 
Every 12 hours he feeds his starter 1 C. bread flour and 3/4 C. room temp
water.  Stir several times between feedings.  Repeat process for 3-5 days
or until a layer of foam forms, 1" thick.  The starter should be uniform
in appearance with no evidence of mold and should have a pleasing odor. 
Otherwise, throw it all out and start over in a different part of the
yard.

Allison


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:25:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - New subscriber

> I am now looking for references about leavening for breads and cakes during
> our Period.

Run, do not walk, and acquire Elizabeth David's book on bread cookery.
	Tibor


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 17:19:17 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - lutefish

gypsy1 wrote:

Lefse is an unleavened pancake made from a soft dough, rather than from
a batter. Depending on what grain or other starch they are made from
(nowadays they are sometimes made from potatoes, which makes them more
properly lompe rather than lefse) they are either eaten fresh, and quite
flexible they are, too, or dried to a matzoh-like consistency, and then
reconstituted by wrapping in a damp towel for a couple of hours before
eating (HINT, HINT: are you getting this, Joshua?)

>  Ok...but what's Flex Mazoh???
> Rita the Ignorant  8-) (=large goofy grin)
> 
> On Thu, 1 May 1997, david friedman wrote:
> 
> > At 4:47 PM -0500 5/1/97, Mark Harris wrote:
> >
> > >What's "lefsa"?
> >
> > Flex Mazoh. Eaten with butter and sugar.
> >
> > David/Cariadoc

Also eaten with butter and cloudberry or lingonberry jam.  Some eat them
with butter and cranberry sauce, in a pinch.

Adamantius


From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed,  7 May 1997 12:10:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 6-May-97 Re: SC - Mushrooms!
- -Reply by LYN M PARKINSON at juno.com 
> Some of my German recipes call for 'hartshorn' as an ingredient.  Do we
> have any animal chemists on the list to know if deer antlers contain
> cream of tartar or something like baking powder or soda?  If so, it may
> be a leavening in period.

Nope, they contain ammonia, which was used as a rising agent in period.

toodles, margaret 


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Mushrooms! -Reply

  > Some of my German recipes call for 'hartshorn' as an ingredient.  Do we
  > have any animal chemists on the list to know if deer antlers contain
  > cream of tartar or something like baking powder or soda?  If so, it may
  > be a leavening in period.
  
  Nope, they contain ammonia, which was used as a rising agent in period.

I'm not sure that this is right.  It was discussed (some years ago) on
the rec.food.historic list.  I found a bunch of the relevant articles
with http://www.dejanews.com/ searching that newsgroup for "ammonia".

Hartshorn is a mixture of ammonimum bi-carbonate and ammonimum
carbonate, and is still used in Europe today.  Cream of Tartar is
tartaric acid, and baking powders and sodas are primarily sodium
bi-carbonate.

The physical action of ammonium carbonate when it becomes CO2 and
ammonia is slightly different, and I gather the textures are noticably
different to the connoiseur.  Hartshorn is also volatile, and spoils, and
there appear to be "chemistry issues" when it is mixed into sour foods.

Some of the posters thought that baking powder and soda could be used as a
substitute, but would give a soapy flavor.  Others thought that hartshorn
gave an ammoniacal flavor.  I dunno.

		Tibor


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 22:23:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - butter

<< Lord Ras, is it possible that the sources you have been looking at are
 primarily just for the upper class and thus would miss the use of butter by
 other classes in/on food?

Yes, this is not only possible but accurate. Since SCA personas are "noble"
theoretically I tend to avoid/ignore sources that do not pertain to that
class.
 
 <<I remember some arguments in previous years on whether "honey butter" was
 period at all. If even "herb butter" and butter were not period, what was
 eaten on bread? Anything? >>

It is my "belief" that olive oil was used as a bread spread when anything was
used at all. My research indicates that the majority of time bread was not
eaten as is but rather was used as sops or dipped into the liquid portions
of meals or consumed dry without additional additives. The "period" style
bread recipes that I have personally redacted tend to be rather heavy in
texture and are not unpalatible when eaten by theirselves. 

This is really rather interesting and I would be grateful for others input as
this particular question (the way bread was normally consumed during period)
has been an object of deep interest to me for several years. Perhaps
Adamantius or His Excellency, Duke Coriadoc could shed some further light on
this intriguing question.

Yours in service to the Dream,
Lord Ras al Zib, AoA, OSyc  (Uduido at aol.com)


From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:44:53 -0500
Subject: Re:  SC - Butter-oops

Hi, Katerine here.  Lord Ras writes:

>It is also my contention that bread was
>almost universally dipped in broths,etc. (e.g. "sops") thus negating the
>widespread use of any spread being necessary. I would welcome any further
>thoughts or info in this area.

Period serving manuals indicate that tables were set with large amounts
of bread completely apart from trenchers, and that bread was always on
the table with cheese and fruit before the first course arrived.  This
would tend to go against your contention.  There are recipes for sops,
but they are not all that common; and while it is highly probable that
bread was dipped in other broths and sauces, we have no evidence
that it was *only* used so, and considerable reason to doubt it.  On
the other hand, the same serving manuals make no mention of putting 
butter on the table (or olive oil); which suggests that neither was it
spread with substances of that kind, at least much of the time.

Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry


From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:40:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)

Warning: Longwinded Post to follow!

Berengaria wrote:
>Also, we were talking about bleaching flour earlier.  My 
>understanding is that much modern bleached flour comes about because 
>of chemical bleaching, not storage methods.  I have also been going 
>for the unbleached white flour, which is still fine and white, and 
>using that in my SCA cooking attempts.  Any thoughts on this?

I have listened to the flour debate quite a bit. The latest "in" arguement I
have heard was that only modern "biscuit" flour had the appropriate texture
and color to resemble period fine white bread. These "statements of
unmaleable fact" make me nervous. Others insist that a percentage of whole
wheat and/or rye must be added to the mixture to get an accurate
representation of "real" period flour (various errant grains having been
reaped with the wheat, y'see, or partions of bran remaining in the flour).
I feel that the truth is somewhat less sweeping. For many of us, we have to
use what is available. Add to that factor the "scientific hypothesis"  about
Biscuit flour, and what you get is this: We don't know for sure. However,
from SCA baking experience and source reading it is possiible to draw some
conclusions: 

Period European White Bread (Manchet) was very similar to our modern dense
home-made white loaves, at least from written descriptions. It is possible
to duplicate the few period bread recipes with good results. You can be
confident that you are arriving close to the reality if you use unbleached
white flour (or biscuit flour). Mostly these recipes have been guarded by
baking guilds who, naturally, were loath to part with their secrets, and
thus did not write them down.

Just as now, all sorts of breads were available in period, made from many
types of grains. Pulse, for instance, was a flour made of at least a portion
of pea- or bean-meal. Add in other factors: colder climates with poorer
soils and little imports used more oats or other hearty grains. Warmer, more
accessible, soil-rich areas preferred wheat, but barley, Rye, etc. were
common and had wide usage.

In general, the higher in society one went, the lower the proportion of
unleavened/whole grains that were included in the "daily bread".

At least in Russia, bread and other food was used as a form of monetary
exchange for servants and vassals. A weekly portion was alloted for each
servant in the form of a huge loaf (or a half-loaf). This was supposed to
last for the week, so it must have been very large indeed (see the
Domostroi). The French brought over to the colonies a tradition for Miches,
or large, round loaves of "commom" bread, which weighed sufficient to last
for several days without going stale. My source says that they could weight
up to 16 lbs. (English Bread and Yeast Cookery, Elizabeth David, Viking
Press, NY 1980--but I'm quoting second hand).  

Not all breads were leavened. Some breads were leavened by captured yeast
(a/k/a spontaneous leaven), some by "starters" or "mothers" or "trees"
(portion of the dough reserved for the next batch). Some breads were leavend
with brewing yeast borrowed from the scum (for top-brewing strains more
common in period) or the lees (sediment leftover).

So, although we have a great deal of information, we once again are stuck
with the fact that, not having eaten bread in period, we can only make
educated guesses about texture, flour quality, leavening and grain content.
But as far as I'm concerned, that's the fun part.

Now, I have a question for the other bread-lovers out there:
  
I have seen recipes for "plain" bread, and rich bread with fruit included
(called Diet Bread!?!). Has anyone out there seen recipes for what we'd call
"herb" bread, or bread incorporating any other ingredients like cheese? Just
curious. I've seen nary a one(well, a few cheese-fritter recipes, but I'm
looking for loaf-bread recipes here). That doesn't mean they weren't
consumed, however, in period. I tend to have a rather narrow focus, not
looking much past central Europe unless an autocrat hands me a different
theme for the feast.  

Cheers,
Aoife


Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:42:51 -0400
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Bread Recipes

The only recipe I have dedacted "to make a fine brede" is actually
angelfood cake, so that's not much help.  I have one book with some bread recipes, but I think these are mostly adapted ones because since it was
such a simple thing, not many bread recipes survived until pretty late in
cooking history.

One of my hobbies is collecting old cookbook, you can be amazed and amused
at the contents!  And we're not even talking 20th Century.

In "The Medieval Cookbook" by Maggie Black, she notes that no recipes have
survived but gives two recipes based upon her reading of many references.

One is White Bread and one is Barley Bread.  I checked several other
cookbooks and while some refer to bread already made, none have recipes for
it.  Be careful, as with modern British english, 'biskit' or 'biskit brede'
is more often a cookie than what we refer to as bread nowadays.

                                        ---D Morgan


Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:24:55
From: Luznicky <we4 at widomaker.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: bread recipe needed

At 10:26 PM 5/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a simple period bread recipe that uses all-purpose
>flour? Most of the recipes I have found have onions or lots of spices,
>etc. It is to be served at a feast, so I would like to find a recipe
>that most people would find tasty.
>
>Maggie

Many recipes (as in _English bread and yeast cookery_) use packaged yeast.
Not period.  You will need a sour dough recipe to be close to any that would 
have been made in period(many did use the barm from beer.)  A couple
of suggested sources are  1) the Desem bread recipe in _Laurel's Bread Book_
and 2) any fo the whole grain  recipes in _Breads from La Brea_ by Nancy 
Silverton.  Good Luck!

Mikhail the Armorer
Tarkhan Khanate Bright Hawk
Great Household of the Dark Horde
PLMPLA
we4 at widomaker.com


From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)

Aoife discussed flours and bread recipes.

What we have found so far for bread recipes includes:

1. Rastons, from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (English):  yeast
bread made with eggs and sugar in the dough; after baking, cut off top
crust, crumble inside to crumbs, mix butter in with crumbs, put top crust
back on and bake again briefly.

2. Platina's description of how to make bread (15th c. Italian):  wheat
flour with salt, flour, and "leaven", which I believe to be sourdough,
baked the day after the dough is made.

3. Chapatis, from a 16th-century Indian book, with no directions but with
quantities by weight of flour, milk, ghee (clarified butter), and salt.

So far, that is it for recipes.  Anne Wilson (_Food and Drink in Britain_;
a very good secondary source) discusses breads and flours, going from
household accounts and bakers' regulations; according to her, higher wheat
content and whiter flours increase both up the social scale at any given
time and through time during our period.

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook


From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:14:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar, Flour and Bread (Longwinded;)

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook wrote:
> What we have found so far for bread recipes includes:
> 
> 1. Rastons, from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (English)....
> 
> 2. Platina's description of how to make bread (15th c. Italian)....
> 
> 3. Chapatis, from a 16th-century Indian book....
> 
> So far, that is it for recipes....

If we're going far enough afield to include both rastons and chapatis,
I think we can include some other yeast-raised recipes from the
Andalusian sources.  Cariadoc/David posted a few of these, notably the
famous "pile of pancakes bread" (whose Arabic name I've forgotten).  I
would point out also the dish "muqawwara", which is a yeast-raised
bread dough, of either semolina or ordinary flour, moistened with milk
and egg yolks (IIRC, the 13c. original recipe says 15 egg yolks per
pound of flour), which is shaped into a disk and pan-fried on both
sides.  Of course, it is then further abused in a manner reminiscent of
Rastons: you cut out the middle, crumble the crumbs, mix them with
chopped almonds and pistachios, and refill the cavity with crumbs in
alternating layers with sugar and melted butter.  It's in my T.I.
article, which is on Greg Lindahl's SCA cookery page as well as at
"http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/sca/cooking/".

					mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
					 http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
                                        Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University


From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:26:16 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Period Recipes

Hi, Katerine Rountre here.  

Just a quick footnote.  Lord Ras writes:

>This holds true for other New World foods such as corn which can be
>documented as being grown in LATE period but it's documented use was strictly
>for animal feed. Human consumption is not documented per se and certainly was
>not readily accepted in noble circles. 

Actually, I have documented corn as used for human consumption.  The class
isn't clear.  But only in the form of bread, and not modern (baking soda 
leavened) corn bread.  For details, see

     http://www.watervalley.net/users/jtn/Articles/maize.html

But it's a *very* narrow window of time and place, and we don't know in any
detail what sort of bread anyhow.  Should people serve corn at feasts, based
on this information?  Who the heck knows what "should" means in this context?
All I hope for, is that those who choose to do so will make some attempt to
avoid false impressions of what we actually know of the record ("Of course
it's okay!  S/He's documented corn up one side and down the other!").

Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry


From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:56:37 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: Campfire bread (was: SC - camping recipes)

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 linneah at erols.com wrote:

> I've always been partial to bread dough wrapped around a clean green stick and 
> held over the fire until golden - sort of like roasting a marshmallow.  Eat it 
> plain or brush it with butter and sprinkle with cinnamon and sugar.  May not 
> be period, but it is tasty.

If you do it on a flat iron "skillet" (the type found i several viking digs) 
it is period as a cooking method. Not sure about the alternative of using 
a flat rock, but I would tend to assume that was done in early period 
"field expedient cooking" as well.

If you want to keep it period you should also give some thought to the
grains you use in the bread (and stay away from baking powder). For great
results mix in some peas (boiled and mashed) in the dough, as well as
mixing several different grains. This was done in several of the breads
(or porridges; it is often hard to tell the difference 1000 years later)
found in the viking age archaeological material. 

/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud                  par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se


From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:15:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Building ovens

> Erin Kenny wrote:
> 
> I have thought about this, but not yet tested the design.  My 
> thoughts go as follows.
>
> ... [detailed construction discussion omitted]

Thom Leonard's _The Bread Book_ includes a 17-page chapter on
constructing and using a brick oven.  He says, among other things,
"An oven built of a single thickness of brick will work well, but the
extra mass and strength gained by a simply applied 2-inch layer of
concrete makes all the difference."  Concrete, of course, puts it way
OOP, but a layer of clay on the outside of the bricks should serve the
same purpose, adding heat-retaining mass.  I've wanted to build such a
thing for several years now... in fact, I was considering building a
mobile one, either on a wheelbarrow (as appears in at least one late
medieval woodcut) or on a car trailer.

If you're curious about the book, which also discusses baking bread from
levain (semisolid sourdough starter), grinding your own flour, and even
growing your own wheat, ask your local natural-foods store; it's
published by East-West Health Books, copyright 1990, ISBN 0-936184-09-4.

					mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
					 http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
                                        Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University


Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:57:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

Sue Wensel wrote:
> >I've used unsliced commercial whole grain loaves, the market calls
> >them "Peasant style."  They're often round or oval instead of
> >Wonder Bread shaped.  Sometimes I use bread dough from the
> >supermarket, but baked on site that day (and if I could get dough
> >other than plain white, I'd do it more often).
> 
> Why do you not use plain white?  I understand the loaf shape, though I don't
> know what evidence we have for it.  Bread pan shaped loaves strike us as too
> modern.  Is that part of your reason for not using white bread?
> 
> >Caitlin Davies
> 
> Derdriu

Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say,  it sits in a
not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.

Period European breads would also have been heavier in texture, since
through most of Europe the wheat grown and eaten was much softer (read
lower in gluten) than what we are accustomed to today.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

<< I use bread dough from the supermarket, but baked on site that day  >>

I also use frozen white bread dough from the market. I unthaw the loaves and
divide each loaf into 4 pcs. I then roll it into a ball and roll it in
oatmeal. I grease a sheet pan and lay then on it 4 by 6 thus getting 24
loaves to a pan. I let it rise til double and bake. It is quick, easy, and
tasty. The oatmeal gives it a rustic look and each person gets there own
individual loaf of bread. :-)

Lord Ras


Date: 23 Jul 1997 11:21:57 -0500
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Subject: Re(2): SC - Bread

>Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
>probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
>in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
>larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
>small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
>natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say,  it sits in a
>not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
>still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
>lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.

I don't concur on this.  Markham has several recipes calling for "fine white
flour."  I don't think our whole wheat flours will fit that bill.  I think
they were able to get rather fine flour by bolting several times and I suspect
they had some fairly fine bolting cloths.  Unfortunately, I don't have any
sources with me (at work) and the ones I have read are currently in the local
library.

>Period European breads would also have been heavier in texture, since
>through most of Europe the wheat grown and eaten was much softer (read
>lower in gluten) than what we are accustomed to today.

The wheat I don't know much about.  What is your recommended reading on this?

>Adamantius

Derdriu
swensel at brandegee.lm.com


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:49:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - Bread

Sue Wensel wrote:
 
> >Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
> >probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
> >in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
> >larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
> >small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
> >natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say,  it sits in a
> >not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
> >still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
> >lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.
> 
> I don't concur on this.  Markham has several recipes calling for "fine white
> flour."  I don't think our whole wheat flours will fit that bill.  I think
> they were able to get rather fine flour by bolting several times and I suspect
> they had some fairly fine bolting cloths.  Unfortunately, I don't have any
> sources with me (at work) and the ones I have read are currently in the local
> library.

"White" appears often to have been a relative term, as in white
marmalade of quinces, which is reddish amber in color, white puddings,
which are usually pale beige. My family are all fair-complected and
fairly pale, with brown eyes and hair, and the lady next door, born in
Dublin, calls me "Blackie", because we aren't blonde or redhaired. As
for flour, I'm sure that by repeated boltings (and I have done the whole
Little Red Hen thing myself, starting from a single ear of wheat and
ending up with bread) you can get it much finer and paler than pure,
fresh, stone-ground whole wheat flour, but you still won't get the kind
of flour your baker or a bread factory uses to make white bread, and you
won't get that kind of bread, either, unless the baker makes a bread
from mixed white and whole wheat flour.
 
> The wheat I don't know much about.  What is your recommended reading on this?

I believe both "Food in History" (Reay Tannahill) and "Food and Drink In
Britain" (C. Anne Wilson) go into the issue of period bread. For the
hard science of it, see Harold McGee's "On Food And Cooking" and "The
Curious Cook". Probably also Margaret Visser's "Much Depends On Dinner".
I used to have a book called "The Staffs of Life", which went into this
pretty well also, but I don't remember the author or where the book is.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:10:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 22-Jul-97 Re: SC - Bread by
Philip & Susan Troy at asan 
> Well, the evidence suggests that white bread as we know it today
> probably didn't exist until around the 18th-19th centuries. White bread
> in period would have been made from whole wheat flour with much of the
> larger particles of bran sifted out. That still leaves the particles too
> small to be caught in the bolting cloth. Even if you allow for some
> natural bleaching of the flour to occur, as, say,  it sits in a
> not-quite-airtight container between grinding and use, I suspect it
> still wouldn't have been likely to get any lighter in color than the
> lighter commercial whole-wheat breads such as Roman Meal.

That depends on where you are.  Sicily, for example, was known in period
for it's white bread--a description I can't imagine coming from anything
close to Roman Meal colored.  I think golden is more what you're looking
for, as most of the natural oil in the wheat (which is removed in modern
milled wheat) remained--this is the color you get from semolina, for
example.

toodles, margaret 


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:57:31 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

Gretchen M Beck wrote:

> That depends on where you are.  Sicily, for example, was known in period
> for it's white bread--a description I can't imagine coming from anything
> close to Roman Meal colored.  I think golden is more what you're looking
> for, as most of the natural oil in the wheat (which is removed in modern
> milled wheat) remained--this is the color you get from semolina, for
> example.

You're right; I shouldn't make generalizations. The color I was
referring to, though, is a pale beige, like cafe au lait. Just a bit
paler than Wonder Whole Wheat. I was thinking in terms of the "white"
bread of Northern Europe through most of period. Possibly the wheat oils
have something to do with it. 

However, semolina is made from several varieties of wheat, some of which
are whiter/yellower than others. Certainly the yellow  color was
considered a sign of quality. I remember reading somewhere that it was
dyed with saffron or some other herbal derivative. It is today, I know.

Adamantius 


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:12:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

        I also read somewhere that wheat was a more generic term as well,
and that medieval bread was sometimes made with spelt, rye and other
grains.  While the upper classes ate more what we consider wheat middle
and lower classes ate a more mixed grain.  These were denser and chewier.
I am sure that a great [deal] of our breads would be a surprise to them.
        Do you think that "Essene bread" was eaten?  I've alwys been
curious about the use of sprouted wheat used as bread. I have Elizabeth
David's book on bread, and can check on what she says.

Clare St. John


Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:25:59 +0000
From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.interquest.de>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

Adamantius wrote:

You're right; I shouldn't make generalizations. The color I was
referring to, though, is a pale beige, like cafe au lait. Just a bit
paler than Wonder Whole Wheat. I was thinking in terms of the "white"
bread of Northern Europe through most of period. Possibly the wheat oils
have something to do with it. 

However, semolina is made from several varieties of wheat, some of which
are whiter/yellower than others. Certainly the yellow  color was
considered a sign of quality. I remember reading somewhere that it was
dyed with saffron or some other herbal derivative. It is today, I know.
______________________________________

They are still baking breads here (Germany) in what I believe is the age old 
tradition with the exception of using steam injection ovens instead 
of brick.  

Most of the breads here vary in shades of brown. The only  "white" 
bread I have seen is kartoffeln brot (potato bread) and that is an 
off-white color. They consider American white bread to be like a 
cake. The breads are sold in round and oblong loaves, you can buy 
half a loaf if you want. 

I am still exploring and trying new things and bread is one of my 
favorite. Fresh bread is still such an important commodity that the 
only things open on Sundays are the bread shops- but only for 
an hour. 

Ysabeau of Prague
Lisa Sawyer
Ysabeau at interquest.de
Baumholder,Germany


From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:53:08 -0500
Subject: ANST - Sifters and Sieves

The discussion on baking, ovens and bread asked about period
sifters/sieves.  I don't know what anyone else was using, but I can tell you
what the Vikings used (and in fact, Swedes in the countryside still use
even today)... they used a round, cup-shaped sieve made by naalbinding,
utilizing horsehair fiber.  Such sieves were used for sifting flour, and
for straining milk.  Milk straining is how most seem to be used in the
present day, but archaeological examples have been found with ground grain
trapped in the fibers.

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde


Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:25:08 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Lombardy Custard

Hi, Katerine here.  Linneah asks:

>How often were the crusts made NOT to be eaten?  When I did my research
>for a paper on food, I understood that it was frequent that the crust
>was only the vessel and not intended for eating.  Is this just when it
>calls for a coffin?  

This is a complex question, and I'm not sure anyone knows the answer.
On the one hand, period serving manuals clearly indicate that in some
cases (especially meats baked in crusts), the crust itself was not
served.  Instead it was opened, the meat (and possibly sauce) removed,
the meat carved, and the contents served.

On the other hand, medieval recipes frequently call for ingredients
in crusts (like sugar) that do not particularly affect their appearance,
but to affect their flavor.  We also see references to tender crusts.
So equally clearly, crusts are at least sometimes intended to be
eaten.

It's tempting to hypothesize that most sweet pies are intended to be
eaten crust and all, as are most custard ones (whether with or without
meat), while meats (and fish, of course) baked in a crust are intended
to be lifted out; but I don't know of anywhere one could look to
give a clear answer.

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Smoking Questions

>  Recently, I have become very interested in how cooking related
> fire works.  In the last 3 years, I have built two beehive style ovens at
> the Pennsic War and have also undertaken building one in the back yard, as
> a means to study both their use and maintenance.
> 
> Anyone who could send/direct me to good resources for recipes and related
> information(in modern english, please) would be very appreciated.

We bought a book on building brick ovens at Pennsic this year, but we
haven't finished unpacking all the stuff from Pennsic so I'm not sure
where the book is.  However, I can also recommend _The Bread Book_, by
Thom Leonard, pub. East-West Health Books 1990, ISBN 0-936184-09-4.
This book discusses how to make traditional "levain"-raised bread and
maintain the culture for the next batch, how to grind flour for bread
(with commentary on different makes of grinders), what sorts of wheat
are best for bread, how to grow them in your back yard, and how to build
and use a brick oven.

					mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu


Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:16:28 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Plum Pudding

To get back on subject, the penny loaf was the price of a loaf of bread
under the Assize of Bread established in 1266.  There were three
qualities of flour listed and three different weights of loaf.  In terms
of 17th and 18th century recipes, what is usually meant is the penny
white loaf (a manchet) which weighed between 6 and 8 ounces.  A wheat or
brown loaf would weigh 12 to 16 ounces.  

Elizabeth David recommends using 81 to 85 percent extraction wheat meal
with a small proportion of unbleached white flour enriched with milk and
eggs to approximate Jacobean or Georgian manchets.  

So, my guess at a 1 lb. loaf is half off.

Bear


Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:58:26 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: SC - beer bread recipe (was re:  small feasts) 

> have a quetion about using homerew in cooking.  One of the men in our shire 
>makes a fairly good home brew (so I 'm told).  His beer generally has a layer 
>of stuff in the bottom of the bottle.  When drinking they just pour the beer 
>off gently and then dispose of the sediment.  Would you want to keep that 
>sediment when using it to cook with?  Or is it just nasty stuff that should be 
>disposed of?
>
>Mercedes
>rudin at okway.okstate.edu

The sediment is the residue of the fermentation process and is usually
pretty bitter and nasty.  I personally would not add it to what I'm
cooking.

For the beer bread, there should be enough yeast left in the brew to get
a rise, although it may take longer than the original chemical aeration.
 I would use the beer at room temperature or even warm it to 90 to 100
degrees F to improve the action.  If you are still worried about the
rise, add about a 1/4 teaspoon of dry active yeast to the beer.  Actual
rise time will depend on temperature, quantity of ingredients, etc.

Medieval baking was primarily done with ale barm.  This is the scum off
the top of the ale pot, where, since ale is top fermenting, much of the
yeast dwells.  Beer is bottom fermenting.  In baking, it produces a more
bitter taste than ale.  In making a medieval style beer bread, ale would
probably be the liquor of choice.  Don't let this stop you from running
up a batch of beer bread if what you have is bottom fermented beer, I've
got a quart of porter left from my wife's birthday party, half of which
is going in a black and tan and half into a batch of beer bread as an
experiment.

If it doesn't work out the first time, don't let that bother you.
Whether you suceed or fail, please let us know what you did, so those of
us who try the recipe have some ideas of the limits of the recipe.
Baking is one area of cooking where you don't know what you have until
it comes out of the oven.  I expect to have to try the recipe three or
four time to get an acceptable, reproducible recipe for a medieval style
beer bread.  It will probably be a week or two before I try, and if you
have made the recipe by then, your experience will help me decide how to
approach the project.

My current project is to produce a period manchet.  My first attempt
produced what I call Francis Drake's bowling balls.  My second attempt
was much better, producing roll-like breads with an exterior like a
brotchen and a muffinish interior.  The color was off due to the choice
of flours.  I'll post a full report sometime next week after I sort out
some problems with the baking temperature.  I hope you will do the same
with the beer bread.

Bear


Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:01:14 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Bread/beer/yeast

Butting in again about breadmaking.  I generally don't make bread 
from the yeast in the bottom of the bottle, only after bottling beer 
and having the lees to use up.  After one or two appalling disasters, 
I would strongly recommend not using stout barm or bitter barm for 
bread.  It makes stuff that is virtually inedible.  If you don't brew 
yourself, try to convince your favourite brewer to make ale or a 
light beer.  The stuff that's left in the bottom of the bottles 
generally sits in my fridge (not more than a week or so) and used in 
sauces (eg. over sausages) or (my favourite) Skye Cake, which is a 
Scots recipe for fruitcake with the dried fruit soaked overnight in 
beer first.  I do usually use baking soda (1/2 quantity from normal), 
but think that a yeast-risen version would be perfectly acceptable.

Cairistiona
*****************************************************
Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town


Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:28:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tyrca at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Beer-dregs

<< 
 This is dead yeast and sediment from the brewing mixture. It looks awful but
 is not harrmful,. Sime brewers (not many) consider the "dregs the best part
 of the bottle and selfishly reserve it for themselves. :-)
 
 Ras >>

Actually, from my experience, not all of that yeast is dead.  Yes, the brew
has stopped bubbling, but there are many times when I have taken some brew
out of the carboy for only one bottle as a gift, and seen the carboy start
bubbling again because of the introduced oxygen.  So I see no problem about
using it to bake with.  Another option might be to get some of the foam that
appears on the top of beer as it is in the process of brewing, as this is
full of very active and healthy yeast.  It is called the Barm (I think.  My
husband is the brewer.  I am more of a Mazer, maker of meads).

Tyrca


Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:27:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Alphabet pretzels

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Ian van Tets wrote:
> doesn't one of the recipes for jumbles recommend cutting them in Ss 
> if no other letter springs conveniently to mind?
> 
> Cairistiona

I have just gotten a nice little food book called The Dutch Table by
Gillian Riley.  It is mostly 16th and 17th century Dutch paintings of food
and kitchens - with some commentary and many undocumented recipes that she
says are from an early 17th century source but does not quote in the
original. there are numerous paintings of bread dough letters both in
homes and in markets and the author talks about them being made for the
Feast of St. Nicholas on December 6th.  There are also pictures of
traditional, twisted pretzels. It's hard to tell if the letters are
cookies or plain bread - there are some that look like each.  Most of the
paintings are slightly out of period, but this is a lovely book.

elaina


Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:16:52 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - Re: Cracknels

Master Huon asked what cracknels were.  This is from _'Banquetting
Stuffe'_, page 96-97, the chapter written by Peter Brears.

"Various other sponge-textured biscuits became popular during the
seventeenth-century - the Naples biscuits, Italian biscuits, Prince
biscuits, drop biscuits, almond biscuits, lemon biscuits, shell-bread,
etc. - all made from combinations of ine flour, sugar, eggs, and
various flavourings.  In addition, there were both cracknells and
jumbals, which had originally been plunged into a pan of boiling water,
from which, after a short time, they rose to the surface, were caught
in a skimmer and only then transferred to the oven.  By the seventeenth
century, however, the boiling process had been largely abandoned."

Brears then goes on to give a cracknell recipe from 1671, _The Compleat
Cook_, which does not go through the boiling process.  I would suspect
that you would need a recipe from a similar time period.  If I can find
one, I will post it, but perhaps others have a recipe at hand???

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:58:55 +0000
From: James and/or Nancy Gilly <KatieMorag at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cracknels

When in doubt, check the OED. 8)

     CRACKNEL, 1.  A light, crisp kind of biscuit, of a curved or hollow
                   shape.  Cf CRACKLING 4.  [various citations, dating from
                   1440 to 1884]
          2.  pl. Small pieces of fat pork fried crisp.  (local Eng. and
              U.S.)  Cf CRACKLING 3 b.  [no citations given]
          3.  = CRACKLE 3, CRACKLING 5.  rare  [one citation, dated 18xx -
              don't have a magnifying glasss handy to make out the last
              two digits]

The other definitions referred to are:

     CRACKLING, 3b.  dial and U.S.  The crisp residue of hogs' fat after
                the lard is dried out.  [two citations from the 1880s]
          4.  = CRACKNEL.  Now dial.  [three citations - can't read the
              date on the first; the other two are from the 1800s]
          5.  = CRACKLE 3, crackle-ware.  [one citation from the 1800s]

The definition for "crackle" refers to china (the sort with the finish with
cracks all over it), not to food, so I won't bother copying it here.

Since all the other definitions come from the 19th century, I'd say
definition 1 - the biscuit - is the pertinent one.

Alasdair mac Iain


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 06:44:33 +0100 (CET)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <pkl at absaroka.obgyn.ks.se>
Subject: Baking (was: SC - My Profile)

Why not do the (early) period thing: bake on a skillet? I've baked cakes
of yeast or sourdough bread on what to most extents is equivalent to the
many long-handeled skillets found in Viking contexts. No big, fluffy
loaves, but still good bread. If your crowd would go for unleavened
bread this is also quite possible.

Or use a flat rock, with the fire underneath. I've been part of a
project making bread for 50+ on a large flat rock (took us half a day or
so for 4" cakes of unleaved (mostly) barley bread ...)

/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud                  par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se


Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:51:11 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Breads

>From:  Tara Sersen[ladycharissa at geocities.com]
>Today a friend and I were discussing making bread for feasts, and were
>trying to figure out how to freeze dough so we can do all the hard work
>way in advance.
>
>Marjorie
>Mountain Confederation
>Fox Clan

I've frozen bread dough for use at a feast (1st Ansteorra-Calontir
Interkingdom if I remember correctly) because the size of the feast
would outstrip my capacity to produce it fresh.

To prepare the dough for freezing, allow the first rise, punch down the
dough, knead it, and shape the loaf.  Wrap the loaf in wax paper and
seal it into foil or plastic bags.  Freeze.

To bake:  Unwrap the dough, place it in greased tins or on a greased
baking sheet at room temperature.  Allow to thaw and rise.  Bake as per
instructions.

Caveats:

I used 1 teaspoon of yeast per pound of flour on a standard bread recipe
to ensure a good rise after thawing.

Be sure the dough is nice and elastic and not too sticky after the
second kneading, else it may stick to the wrapper.

Be wary of self defrosting freezers and extended storage.  Bread dough
which comes above freezing will start to rise slowly and may damage your
packaging.  If your freezer fails, get the bread dough out and baked, to
save yourself from an interesting result.

Since you're going to be experimenting, try this.  Freeze one loaf, bake
one loaf.  Cool the baked loaf on a rack, then wrap it air-tight in a
plastic freezer bag or foil and tape.  Freeze it.

When you are ready to test, thaw the baked loaf completely at room
temperature, wrap it in foil and heat it for about 20 minutes at 350
degrees F.
Bake the frozen dough.  Compare the taste and textures.

I'd make four loaves at a time, use a quarter of the dough for the thaw,
knead, rise and bake method, and bake the fourth to save me from
gobbling up the experiment.

Bear


Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:41:21 EST
From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain)
Subject: SC - Frozen Bread Dough

After seeing the post on freezing bread dough I remembered a chart that
my father had given me reguarding cooking and bread. He has always had
fun experimenting with breads over the years and came up with the
following chart on cooking by measuring the internal temperature of
things. I hope this helps and according to the chart one should be
careful not to freeze the bread dough too cold or it will not bake
properly.

Temperature Measurements For Baking
212F: Pie Done
190F - 200F: Bread done, Core Measurement
150F: Hot pastry ideal temp & scald milk, kills protease for better yeast
growth
140F: Reheat stale bread to refresh
110F - 115F: Proofing yeast grows best
074F - 080F: Dough rises best
046F: Bread stales 6x faster than 86 degrees
020F: Store frozen dough
000F: Frozen dough yeast dies

Korrin S. DaArdain
Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com


Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:47:43 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Breads

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:

<< Being curious, I ask, why should you go crazy making 17 loaves of bread?

 Bear >>

I don't. In the bread area , I usually go period-like. I buy pre-frozen bread
dough , let it thaw , cut each into 4 pieces; roll each piece into the shape
of a ball and then brush it with half egg white/half water wash; roll it in
steel cut oats. cut an X in the top of each; pot them on a sheet pan 1 1/2
inches apart. Let rise. Bake. Voila> Individual loves of bread for each
person.

Ras


Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:26:51 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Book

David, Elizabeth, English Bread and Yeast Cookery; The Viking Press, New
York, 1980.  ISBN 0-670-29653-8.  This is the American Edition with notes by
Karen Hess.  The original English edition was published in 1977.

There is a hardbound version currently in print from another publisher, but
I don't know if Hess' notes are included.   The book covers flour, yeast and
the other ingredients for baking, a brief history of bread, ovens, bread and
cake tins, basic bread recipes, baps, rolls, historic bread recipes, yeast
cakes, regional breads and cakes, dessert breads and soda breads.

This is the closest thing I have found to a baker's bible.  If you are a
baker, buy a hardbound copy.  It will get a lot of use.

Bear


Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:41:25 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bread recipes-date.

Deanna.Knott at GSC.GTE.Com writes:

<< I have heard that the first *recipe* for bread dates from somewhere in the
14th ot 15th centuries.  >>

You might want to push the bread recipe date back another century. al-Baghdadi
contains numerous recipes for bread most of which also specify amounts of
ingredients in one form or the other. This book appears in volume 1 of
Cariadoc's Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks.

Ras


Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:46:59 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bread

csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk writes:
<< Should cooks be baking breads? - different guilds! >>

Probably not. :-) Towns  during the middle ages frequently, if not
exclusively, outlawed cooking at home any way. You usually bought your dough
at one place and then took it to the baker for baking. The same pattern was
repeated for other foods. "Life ion a Medieval Village"  talks somewhat on
this subject for a starting place.

Bread-making and cooking were conducted "on-premises" in the manner houses and
castles though. So given that the SCA persona is technically considered as
being of "noble" birth, there would would no problem with baking your own
bread. :-)

Ras


Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:15:48 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: Fermented Beverage Recipe Question(was:RE: SC - Michael Scott Shappe <mikey at Hundred-Acre-Wood.com>: Re: [Mid] Society for CREATIVE Ana chronism

> I have heard that the first *recipe* for bread dates from somewhere in the
> 14th ot 15th centuries.  This doesn't mean that bread isn't period for
> earlier times.  I was told that they didn't write a recipe because
> everyone *knew* how to make bread.  Does this hold true for fermented
> beverages?  Does the literacy rate amongst the alewives have an effect on
> this and how most of their knowledge was probably verbal?  Or, is there
> some other reason (like some crazy people buyrned most of the books with
> beer recipes in them? hehe)?
>
> Avelina Keyes
> Barony of the Bridge
> East Kingdom

The first recipe for bread is Sumerian and is around 5000 years old.  It is
for an unleavened barley bread which is both eaten and used as the primary
ingredient in Sumerian beer.  Pliny the Elder provides enough information,
that one could recreate bread as made by the Goths.  And there are also
non-European bread recipes from earlier in the SCA period.

The recipes of which you are thinking are Platina's bread recipe, rastons
from the Harleian manuscripts (if I remember the correct source) and a
recipe for manchets from the Good Huswife's Jewell (again from memory).
There are a number of recipes published immediately after period which are
probably a good example of Elizabethean baking.  My opinion of these recipes
is they are taken from the baking for manors or large households rather than
commercial baking.

Baking and brewing seems to have been common, especially on farms and
estates.  Towns were a different matter.  Commercial bakers and brewers were
members of guilds which purchased specific rights for specific areas.  For
example, medieval bakers owned the ovens, and in many towns, no one other
than the bakers was allowed an oven for bread.  In such a case, the baker
made bread to sell, and, for fee, would bake a householders dough or make
bread from the ingredients provided.

While the lack of recipes is probably due to a low literacy rate, it is also
possible that the lack of recipes demonstrates the strength and secrecy of
the bakers and brewers guilds.  Bakers and brewers spent years learning and
improving their craft and shared their knowledge only with a few apprentices
and journeymen, so even if the information was written down, it would have
only been given to a guild member.

Bear


Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 10:18:34 EDT
From: melc2newton at juno.com
Subject: SC - bean vs. wheat

In _How They Lived; 55 B.C. - 1486, W.O. Hassall lists an passage that I
was confused about and was wondering if anyone else had heard about:

        Source: Thomas Waleys, Moralitates, c. 1326 -42. Translated from
extract in Beryl Smalley, English Friars and Antiquity in the Early
Fourteenth Century, Blackwell 1960. p.309

   "I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""

So, what exactly is bean bread, and does anyone have a recipe? I would
like to see this, maybe at  above/below the salt feast.
beatrix


Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:09:20 +0100
From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SC - bean vs. wheat

> In _How They Lived; 55 B.C. - 1486, W.O. Hassall lists an passage that I
> was confused about and was wondering if anyone else had heard about:
>
>       Source: Thomas Waleys, Moralitates, c. 1326 -42. Translated from
> extract in Beryl Smalley, English Friars and Antiquity in the Early
> Fourteenth Century, Blackwell 1960. p.309
>
>   "I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
> England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
> them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
> more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
> to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
> than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
> The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
> The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
> it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
> so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""
>
> So, what exactly is bean bread, and does anyone have a recipe? I would
> like to see this, maybe at  above/below the salt feast.
> beatrix

        Bean bread is a bread made partially with bean flour (pea flour
was used similarly).  Certainly by the 15th century it was regarded as a
food of poverty and/or shortage and was not popular - there was pressure
from workers to recieve white wheaten flour (even wholemeal bread wasn't
popular) - see Christopher Dyer 'Everyday Life in Later Medieval
England'.

        A member of the White Company (Mark Fry who I've copied in on
this) has made it from a recipe by Maggie Black in the Weald and
Downland medeival village cookbook.  I don't have details, and perhaps
Mark would be kind enough to supply them.  I can however comment on the
results.  The bread Mark made was quite white but heavy and dense, which
was not surprising given the lack of gluten in bean flour.  It was quite
salty but worked well with pottage.

        I would suggest that this story is a good example of employers
justifying to themselves why they don't give their workers wheaten bread
which they were requesting.

        Caroline


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:56:06 +0100
From: "Mark Fry" <mfry at FRIENDSPROVIDENT.btinternet.com>
Subject: SC - C15th Bean/Pea Breads

Hi Caroline & all
Just some more 'bready' thoughts to pass onto you cooking info circle.
I'd have no problems about you also passing on my bread experiment article
in the WC newsletter 67. if that might help people - there is also my
research (in a 1997 WC newsletter) on the quantities of food given to
soldiers and galley marines which might be of interest but I don't have an
electronic copy of either text anymore.

The bread(s) I've been experimenting with are the various mixed grain types.
At least one of these was called 'horse bread' during the C15th and this
appears to have been an inferior quality bread (if we are to believe the
complaints of soldiers issued with it as rations) made from a mixture of
pea/bean flour and wheat flour. I've also experimented with rye/wheat and
barley/flour mixes as well. There is also refferance to a 3 grain bread -
wheat, rye & bean/pea - but I've not tried this yet.

Why it was called 'horse' bread is open to various interpretations but
there are C15th documented refferances (I'll try & get you the exact source
details) in hunting manuals to the fact that bread was to be specifically
baked for both horses and hounds. The reason for having the latter was that
it was used in the hunt at a 'kill' - (the bread for the dogs was dipped
into the blood of the kill and fed to the dogs) - I suppose this was to
keep them off the meat whilst still maintaining their interest in the hunt.
Whether the horse bread & hound bread was made from the same recipe I have
no idea.
Another theory about the name 'horse bread' is that the beans used were
what are still called 'Horse Beans' in parts of the west country (UK) even
today. These are a small beaned version of the broad bean family, grown
today as a feed crop for livestock and a nitrogen 'fixing' agent, which
when dried produce a very 'powdery' flour. I personally think this is an
unlikely reason for the 'horse bread' name as peas were used as well as
beans - but its a thought.

Another possible reason for the mixed grain is that the resulting 'bread'
is a lot harder & denser in it's constituency than ordinary wheat bread -
more like a biscuit. This does make it ideal material for platters and
serving (a bit like modern German rye breads) but I doubt if bread was
specifically baked for this purpose - there are C15th household accounts
that mention that platters should be made from the cheaper darker bread but
also this should ideally be at least 3 or 4 days old (eg. stale). Again
going back to the hunting theme - both dogs and horses are still fed
biscuit today so maybe the mixed grain 'breads' were baked without yeast
and included some fat in them making them much harder. This would make them
less bulky and breakable in transit and therefore more suitable for taking
on a hunt or a longer journey. My own experiments have produced mixed grain
bread which have not risen at all well which, leaving aside my poor baking
skills, is probably the result of the low gluten in the pea/bean flour.
Also the resulting 'bread' has come out very 'yeasty' in taste & smell
which would seem to indicate that maybe yeast was not used.
I've not tried the mixed wheat/pea or bean flour in biscuit recipes but
will be doing so in the next few weeks and will report back on the
results.The fact that the bean bread also retains it's salty taste more
than either the rye, pea or barley flour could result in a more 'savoury'
biscuit.
If we also consider another possible link to biscuits (this is a bit
tenuous) - C14/15th Italian galley marines were issued with a considerable
amount of dried beans per head per day, as rations - but no bread or flour.
Beans (& the resulting biscuit) would keep much better onboard ship than
pre-ground flour or bread and could be easily ground with hand mills or
taken ashore to be ground in larger mills if required. Without the need for
yeast it would be simplicity itself to bake the bean flour into flat
biscuit type 'bread' on-board ship. In addition the beans could be used in
pottages as well.

The recipe I've based all my experiments on is an adaptation of the Maggie
Black recipe from the Weald & Down Open Air Museum Cookbook (I think this
is now out of print which is a great shame as it's a great source of modern
adaptations of medieval & renaissance recipes) :-
BAYLEAF FARMHOUSE BREAD
1 lb (450g) - Pea/ Bean/Barley/Rye flour*
1 lb 14oz (850g) - strong white baking flour~
2 oz (50g) - rice/corn flour^
1 oz (25g) - dried yeast (fresh is much better)
11/2 tablespoons salt (you will need to reduce this for the beans)
4 tea spoons clear honey
1/4 pint (150 ml) strong brown ale#
1 - 11/4 pint (575-850 ml) warm water

(* I used dried butter beans, yellow split peas and dried pearl barley,
which I ground in an electronic coffee grinder bought specifically for the
purpose. The rye flour came from a health food shop. Dried marrow fat peas
are actually more 'period' than any other form of modern pea/bean, but I
have heard that the flour from these starts to 'de-grade' very quickly once
mixed with water - but I've not tried this yet).
(~ You could use a 50/50 strong white to rye flour mix which produced a
very acceptable loaf - which did rise - just keep the total flour weight
consistant).
(^ I'm not too sure about this as it's a bit 'rich' for inclusion in a
'cheap' bread ?).
(# Possibly this was included by Maggie to represent the fact that most
C15th yeast was a brewing by-product but that's only my own personal
guess).

Maggie also has some recipes for oatmeal 'cakes' which I've tried and which
went down very well with my various guinea-pigs at events. They're made
from a 50/50 oatmeal/wheat flour mix with suet but also include parsley
(I've made them with veggie suet & they work just as well). I'll dig out
the recipe for these and forward them onto you in my next communication.

The C13th refferace to bean bread is very interesting and I'd like to have
a look at the original text for any other 'clues'.

Mark Fry


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:35:40 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Bean Bread and Brid

As to the bean bread, this might prove useful:

"It is folly to send more corn to the mill than one has present use
for.  Wee sende (in winter time) a mette [2 bushels] of massledine
for our own tempsed-bread [passed through a tempse, or coarse hair
sieve] backinge; in the heat of summer wee sende but a bushell,
because it will moulde and bee wasted with long standing.  Wee sende
for the browne bread baking (in winter time) a bushell of rye;  a
bushell of pease and a bushell of barley;  and afore wee putte it in
the poake, wee make the miller take a besome and sweepe a place, and
pour it onto the grownd, and blende it alltogeather with his hand,
and after that take a scuttle and putte it into the poake;  in summer
time wee send but a mette, because it will grow hard with long
standings, viz, a bushell of pease, and a bushell of rye, into which
wee putt a ryinge or two or three of barley.  Wee send for our own
pyes a bushell of the best wheat.  We send for the folkes puddinges a
bushell of barley, but never use any rye for puddinges, because it
maketh them soe softe that they run about the platters;  in harvest
time they have wheate puddinges.  The folkes pye crusts are made of
massledine, as our bread is, because that paste that is made of
barley meale cracketh and checketh [splits].  Poore folks putt
usually a pecke of pease to a bushell of rye;  and some again two
pecks of pease to a frundell [2 pecks] of massledine, and say that
these make hearty bread.  In many places they grinde after-logginges
of wheat for their servants pyes;  and fewer there are that grinde
any barley at all for their household use, because it is soe shorte,
and will not abide workinge."
Henry Best, 'Farming Book', 1641 (in Yorkshire)

Having said that, I _like_ barley bread (half and half with wheat) at
camping events - it lasts better.  I used to make a mixed grain loaf
of rice, rye, barley, cornmeal, wheat, buckwheat and whatever else
was around.  Buckwheat was the only one that wasn't successful by
itself (or half and half with wheat).  Have also been trying sorghum
and wheat combined lately.  Very like rye in effect.  But to date,
not tried pease flour - tho' I do have some in the cupboard...

Cairistiona
*****************************************************
Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town
Rondebosch 7701 RSA


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:43:11 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - C15th Bean/Pea Breads

Beatrix posted:
>"I heard that a bishop wanted a fishpond to be on one of his manors in
> England. Many peasants were summoned for the job and the bishop ordered
> them to be given daily food wheaten bread so that they should work with
> more strength and greater will. Within three or four days the work began
> to slacken. The bishop noticed and asked one why he was getting slower
> than at the start. He replied that he had no bread and so could not work.
> The bishop said he had told his steward to give them wheaten bread daily.
> The peasant replied 'That is not bread for the likes of us. I don't call
> it bread. Let us have bean bread and then we shall be able to work'. And
> so it was, once the wheaten bread was taken away from them.""

This makes very good sense to me!

When you eat peas/beans and grains together, you get a "protein
complimentarity" effect - much more protein is available to your body than
eating them separately. When I was a studying biology and chemistry, I ate
vegetarian simply because I was trying to live on a scholarship. Naturally,
I wanted to know how it all worked...

Protein is made up of 21 amino acids. 14 are really common, so if you have
any food to eat at all, you'll get these. Your body can manufacture 4 from
other amino acids, so you have 3 (tryptophan, thymine and niacine if I
remember correctly) that you must get in order to build your completed
proteins - these are the limiting factors. 2 of these exist in legumes, the
other 1 in grains (they are also present in eggs, seeds, etc). So if you eat
these foods together in the right proportions, you can get enought protien
without eating meat (or even dairy products, if you are really careful).

In other words, although the bean/pea breads were looked down on and only
eaten by the poor, they made up a good chunk of the protien in the lower
class diet and were much better food for them than pure wheat bread would
have been!

Rowan


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:13:58 EDT
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: SC - Travel Bread

Just a general question..... Dr. Henry Lumpkin in his lecture series "The
History of Warfare" Made the statement that travel bread was made in a bagel
shape, threaded through rope and hung around the horses neck when traveling
light (Such as a Knight on horseback).

I know it's a longshot, and since Dr.Lumpkin either drowned or died from a
heart attack (His car went into a lake while he was driving and having a heart
attack, but that's not important), I was wondering if any of you bread experts
out there could point me to an actual written historical reference to this?

Did traval bread sometimes come in the form of a bagel and was the function to
be hung on a rope?

Actually, when you think about how much jews had to travel... it makes sense,
but if anybody knows where to look, point me in the right direction please?

Corwyn


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:12:45 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Travel Bread

> Just a general question..... Dr. Henry Lumpkin in his lecture series "The
> History of Warfare" Made the statement that travel bread was made in a bagel
> shape, threaded through rope and hung around the horses neck when traveling
> light (Such as a Knight on horseback).
>
> I was wondering if any of you bread experts
> out there could point me to an actual written historical reference to
> this?
>
> Did traval bread sometimes come in the form of a bagel and was the
> function to be hung on a rope?
>
> Corwyn

I've never come across this one.  I'm not sure I would find a bagel salted
with horse lather very palatable.

Frankly, most of the travel breads I am familiar with are double baked
breads like hardtack or flat bread.  These would most likely been wrapped in
a cloth and carried in a pack or a saddle bag.  Hanging food around the neck
of a horse is the kind of thing I would expect of a post rider or by troops
on a forced march, rather than just travelling.

A water bagel with its tough skin and its' moisture retaining properties
might make a good travel bread, but I haven't seen a reference to bagels
being used this way.

Most breads with center holes are shaped that way to insure they bake
properly.  That they can be hung from a staff and sold is an added
advantage.

Apocryphally, the bagel was first made in 1683 to Jan Sobieski's victory
over the Turks.  But there are supposed to be some earlier references to
them.  There is some archeological evidence that a bread of this type was in
use by the Uighurs as early as 100 CE.

Bear


Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:37:57 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Re: Feasts too high?

[about the holes in the bottom of loaves cooked in bread machines]
> You could say that the holes were made by the poles used to poke the bread
> out of the far side of the oven.
>                     John

Refer to them as maker's marks.  Very often bread was baked on top of a
metal figure which pressed the baker's mark into the bottom of the loaf.

Peels, thin paddles with long handles, are used to move bread in and out of
the oven and they do not leave holes in a loaf.

Bear


Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:03:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request

> I've explored obvious bread-history sources, such as Elizabeth David's
> "English Breads and Yeast Cookery", "World Sourdoughs from Antiquity"
> by Ed Wood, and now I'm searching for the more obscure stuff. (Or have
> I missed any 'obvious' sources?)

You've probably got the two best sources on historical baking available.
You might wish to add Bernard Clayton Jr, The Breads of France and Julius E.
Wihlfahrt, A Treatise on Baking (if you can find it).  Paul Rambali,
Boulangerie is a good read, but I would recommend borrowing it from the
library before purchasing.  The chapter on baking from C. Anne Wilson, Food
and Drink in Britain, is of use.  Jeffery Alford and Naomi Duguid,
Flatbreads and Flavors, is about traditional ethnic flat breads.

> Elizabeth
> Call me "E.B."

Bear


Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:03:35 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request

> Julius E. Wihlfahrt, A Treatise on Baking (if you can find it).  <snip>

EEEK!  I have a copy! (I bought it for 50 cents(!) at the library book
sale.  Tattered,with lots of crayon scribbles, alas!) You mean to tell me
someone else has actually heard of this book?

Before the rest of you ask, the title is:
"A Treatise on Flour, Yeast, Fermentation and Baking together with Recipes
for Bread and Cakes, fourth edition revised.  by Julius Emil Wihlfahrt,
1915.  Presented with the compliments of The Fleischmann Co.
This is a promo piece for Fleischmann's yeast, originally published 1905.
It was written for commercial bakers, & all the recipes are in commercial
quantities.

I have just emailed the Fleischmann's Yeast Co. asking permission to scan &
post this book.  We'll have to wait & see what they say...

Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:04:27 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Intro and Bread Request

> EEEK!  I have a copy! (I bought it for 50 cents(!) at the library book
> sale.  Tattered,with lots of crayon scribbles, alas!) You mean to tell me
> someone else has actually heard of this book?
>
> Before the rest of you ask, the title is:
> "A Treatise on Flour, Yeast, Fermentation and Baking together with Recipes
> for Bread and Cakes, fourth edition revised.  by Julius Emil Wihlfahrt,
> 1915.  Presented with the compliments of The Fleischmann Co.
> This is a promo piece for Fleischmann's yeast, originally published 1905.
> It was written for commercial bakers, & all the recipes are in commercial
> quantities.
>
> Cindy/Sincgiefu

Mine came from an estate whose library was sold to Ball's Books in Norman,
OK.  Cathy Ball generally gives me first refusal on cookbooks and I latched
onto it.  It is valuable to me, because it provides information about
producing dough in large quantities.

Of particular interest to historical cooks are the recipes and comments on
"brake" doughs.

I hope you get permission to Web the text.

Bear


Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:43:00 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Intro and Bread Request

At 4:11 PM -0800 10/28/98, Donna Hrynkiw wrote:
>Greetings to this gathering of folks from Elizabeth Braidwood of An Tir,
>newly subscribed to this list.
...
>What I would like to request from you is to drop me a note when you run
>across a reference to medieval flour, bread or baking in your wanderings;
>references to bread (especially if they're describing it), pictures
>of bakers and ovens, millers and mills, references to baking techniques
>(rising/fermenting, frequency of baking, etc), well, you get the idea.

We have two period bread recipes in our _Miscellany_, one from Platina's
description of making bread (15th c. Italian) and one from a 16th c. Indian
source for chapatis and similar breads.  We also have the Rastons recipe
which Cindy Renfrow mentioned.  If you don't have a paper copy of the
Miscellany, the 6th edition (we're now up to the 8th in hardcopy) is webbed
at:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html

Do you know Wulfric the Mad Baker/Jeremy Fletcher from this area (Southern
Shores, central West Kingdom)? He has been collecting baking info, and even
has his own baker's marks: little metal images you put under your dough as
it is baked, so that the finished loaf has your mark baked into the bottom.

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook


Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:11:26 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Soup Bowls

> You speak of leaking bowls.  At Pennsic, a merchant, called _The Bread
> Bowl_ (go figure) makes several kinds of stew and serves them to
> customers.  Some sit down in the food court to eat, but many just wander
> through the merchants, holding their bowls and eating.  As there aren't
> dribbly trails all over Pennsic, there must be some way to keep the bowls
> from leaking for, say, 45 minutes?
>
> Allison

Wet your hands when shaping the loaf.  Like working clay, this helps fill in
weak spots and it forms a hard, even crust.  It's not as tasty as some
crusts, but it should be less prone to leakage.

From some of the other posts, I would leave a good amount of bread inside
the bowl to absorb excess liquid and I would consider using a thickened stew
rather than a thin broth.

It's getting to be good soup weather, so it might be worthwhile to run up a
couple batches of bread bowls and test them fresh and at two and four days.

Bear


Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:08:30 -0500
From: Christi Redeker <Christi.Redeker at digital.com>
Subject: SC - SC RE: Bread soup Bowls

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, LYN M PARKINSON wrote:
> Bear,
> You speak of leaking bowls.  At Pennsic, a merchant, called _The Bread
> Bowl_ (go figure) makes several kinds of stew and serves them to
> customers.  [...]
> As there aren't
> dribbly trails all over Pennsic, there must be some way to keep the bowls
> from leaking for, say, 45 minutes?
> Allison

An option to get the crust so it doesn't leak is to brush the dough with egg
white (I add a bit of garlic to mine to add flavor to the crust).  I have
made many soup and dip bowls this way. You also have to make sure that you
don't pull all the bread of the inside, they will leak much faster if you
don't leave enough bread in them.

Murkial


Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:32:03 -0800
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread Soup Bowls

Bear, Keeper of the Cathedral Ovens, writes:
> Warning:  Edible bread doughs will leak if you put a lot of liquid in them.
> If they are dried out (4 days old like trenchers) they will absorb more
> liquid, but they will still leak.  Put the bread bowl inside a regular bowl.
> That's more fun than soup dribbling off the table

What we always did with these was, after cutting off the tops and scooping
them out, we lightly brushed the insides of the "bowls" with a little olive
oil and put them back in the oven for a while (like, 20 minutes or more).  The
bread, while still deliciously edible, is now crunchy and much sturdier and
will hold longer (but the just-in-case plate underneath is *always* a good idea!) and the crumbs can always be used as a period thickener for your soup/stew...:-)

        - k


Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:49:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Hrynkiw <donna at Kwantlen.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: SC - Bread

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Stacie wrote:
> I like no love to bake bread. Does anyone have good bread recipes, is there
> a good webpage for old fashioned bread recipes? etc...I'm looking for the
> kind that mother's would make  8-)
> Stacie

I too am relatively new to this list and an enthusiastic bread-baker.

I can't say I've found any really good websites dedicated to old-world or
traditional bread, although some of the sourdough sites come close. I would
like to recommend a few books though:

The Village Baker: Classic Regional Breads from Europe and America
   by Joe Ortiz, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, 1993, ISBN 0-89815-916-4
World Sourdoughs from Antiquity
   by Ed Wood, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, 1996, ISBN 0-89815-843-5

Elizabeth


Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:26:12 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Bread

> >I discovered late last night that there is a Roman treatise on baking, which
> >presumably gives recipes for 60 different kinds of bread.  If I can find a
> >copy, it will give me a pre-period reference to compare with period and
> >post-period references.
>
> Anyway, I would LOVE to hear of a Roman treatise on baking. The set of
> Apician recipes has nothing on bread or cakes. Any pointers to this tome
> would have me jumping with joy for weeks, and have a general feeling of
> well-being throughout the year.
>
> Glenda.

Rereading the paragraph from Toussaint-Samat's History of Food when I am not
seeing double from fatigue, I find that the recipes may not be in the
treatise.  As a direct quote:

"Some 50 recipes are known, although Chrysippus of Tyana, in a treatise on
bread making, lists another 30 kinds without further description.  The fact
that this list is included in the treatise shows that baker's did not
confine themselves to making bread."

You now know the extent of my knowledge about the treatise.  I hope to be
able to improve on it soon.

Since you have an interest in Roman cooking, you might look into Ilaria
Gozzini Giacosa, A Taste of Ancient Rome, University of Chicago Press,
(published in both the US and the UK).  The main source is Apicius, but it
has recipes from other sources.

Cato and Atheanaeus are supposed to have commented on Roman baking.

On a slightly different note, Toussaint-Samat's History of Food is available
in hardcover from Barnes and Noble at $19.95.  That is less than the price
of the softcover edition.

Bear


Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:51:10 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: RE: SC - Re: Can Someone Explain This?

<snip>
>Let's look at some of the woodcuts Cindy has put up, and see what we can
>see?
>what the h**l is the URL fr those pictures, again?
<snip>

Hello!  The url is http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html
I have several pictures of bakers with peels, some of which are posted on
Greg's site.  I'll refer to them here by their file names so you'll know
which ones I mean - not all of these are posted on Greg's site. If you want
copies, email me.

The 'Assize of bread' picture  shows a peel made of a pole with a
'home-plate'-shaped board attached to the end.  The flat part is big enough
for at least 2 large raised pies (maybe 15 inches wide).

'Baker 3' (from Liber de Assisa Panis, 1293 -- admittedly a crude picture),
has a peel that may be carved all in one piece.  Again, it is squared-off,
like 'home-plate'. The flattened end looks very small, about 6 to 8 inches
wide, enough to fit one loaf.

'Baker 4' (from Eygentliche Beschreibun Aller Stande auff Erden, 1568) uses
a peel with a round flat end.  It is wide enough to fit one large loaf
(maybe 12 inches), just wide enough to fit in the narrow oven door.

'Baker 1' (from the Shepherd's Great Calendar, 15th c.) has a peel with a
rectangular flat end.  It holds 8 small loaves & again is slightly narrower
than the oven door, maybe 8 to 12 inches wide.

'Large Kitchen' (from Il Cuoco Segreto di Papa Pio V, 1570) shows a peel
leaning against the far wall.  It is clearly made of 2 pieces -- a long
pole, split at one end & attached to a broad (paddle-shaped) flat piece.

'Street Bakers' uses a stubby peel.  From the angle at which she is holding
it, it may well be a shovel serving double-duty, or some type of hook --
the picture is unclear.

There are also at least 6 pictures of peels in the back of The Medieval
Health Handbook (Tacuinam Sanitatis) in the b/w section.

The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti (another version of Tacuinam
Sanitatis) has the biggest-bladed peels of all, with oval ends that fit 2
large loaves.

I searched high & low for a picture I saw of a baker with a dish fastened
to the end of his peel -- the BROAD end, btw. But I can't find it.  The
filling was poured into the dish & used to quickly fill coffins that were
already baking in the oven, so that the oven would not lose too much heat.

My dictionary says the word 'peel' comes into ME from MF from the Latin
'pala', meaning shovel.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes"
http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:02:08 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Mustard & Soughdough Books

Two titles on the History of ....

A Dash of Mustard Katie Holder & Jane Newdick  History of mustard from
Roman times to modern, 50 recipes etc

World of sourdoughs from antiquety  ed Wood 1996

All these interesting books ...so little time...so unfair !
Mel


Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:40:39 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Hartshorn

David/Cariadoc wrote:
>My memory from past discussions is that hartshorn appears in period,
>but not as leavening; I think it was used in jellies.

Didn't we have a discussion some months back about the "period-ness" of
hartshorn?  I thought I/we had found a reference to it in the Sabina
Welcher (sp??) cookbook.  I can't find my copy right now or I'd look it
up.  Anyone else have a copy?  My memory says that it was with some
type of cookie...

Alys Katharine


Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:59:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Hartshorn

Ammonium carbonate (hartshorn) would be the leavening agent.
Hart's horn (as in deer horn) would be more likely in the production of gelatin.
Except that this may be a six of one and a half dozen of the other type of
argument.

>From Waverly Root, FOOD;

"hartshorn, powdered deer antlers, the medieval precursor of baking powder,
which some German and Scandinavian cooks think they are still using, but the
modern version is a counterfeit, ammonium carbonate.”

Bear


Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:29:54 -0600
From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - 14th Century Food

Hartshorn is used today in Germany, in packets of 'backpulver' which just
means baking + powder.  I can't find hartshorn in any of my dictionaries,
which aren't the greatest for food terms, but if anybody who does German
can find it, that may be the corpus in which to look.

Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc


Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:17:21 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: SC - Re: hartshorn

Hello!  Someone was asking for info about hartshorn. I found 4 substances
by that name. These definitions are from the glossary & appendix to A Sip
Through Time:

"Hart's horn~~shavings of the antlers of the male deer, used to make
gelatine.  Also the name of a chemical compound, ammonium carbonate, used
in medicines and commercially in baking powder and many other substances.
The name Hart's horn also applies to two plants...

Hart's horn.
*1-Pulsatilla species, Ranunculaceae...  Pasque-flower, Anemone,
Wind-flower.  Pulsatilla was once used as a sedative and for diseases of
the reproductive organs; it is the source of Anemonin (a substance used
additionally as an antispasmodic, and for asthma, whooping cough, and
bronchitis), and of Ranunculin, which breaks down to form toxic
protoanemonin...

2-Plantago species, Plantaginaceae...  Gerard (p. 346) shows a type of
plantain which he calls Hart's horn.  Plantains are used for salads and
potherbs."

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:56:49 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks- olive oil and bread?

Francesca Barozzi wrote:
>         I have a question.  I would like to have bread and olive oil in a
> dish for bread dipping for part of one course at a feast.  Did people in
> the middle ages dip their bread in olive oil the way we might today?  Has
> anyone found documention for this?  Also if they did dip bread in olive
> oil, would they ever put parmesan and pepper in the olive oil or did they
> season they bread and dip in olive oil.  Also, garlic has been around a
> long while, would people have roasted it and spread it on bread?  These
> are probably dumb questions, but I wanted to ask in a place where I can
> get a quick and accurate answer.  Thank you for your help!

So, uhhh, it sounds to _me_ like you're looking for some period spreads
for bread.

The short answer is that, so far as I've been able to document, bread in
peroid Europe is eaten either unsauced or as a sop (dunked in wine or
other beverage or served under a sauced dish or pottage, or as part of a
pudding-y thing such as wastels yfarced or rastons).

There may be some exceptions to this in period al-Islam, where bread
scoops might have been known (I'd have to look), but more likely it
would be eaten out of hand as an accompaniment to other foods, or
stuffed with fillings like a pasty, or used in a sort of breadcrumb
pilaf/pudding called tharid.

I do remember seeing _somewhere_ an English account of the odd practices
of immigrant Heugenots in the mid-17th century, among which are their
habit of sending their children out of the house in the mornings with a
chunk of bread smeared with butter in the Flemish fashion. This might
indicate a possible tradition of spreading butter on bread in period
Flanders, but we don't know how far back it really goes.

Re roasted garlic: I haven't seen an account of the practice of roasting
garlic and spreading it on bread, but there's an English dish called
aquapatys, it is garlic cloves boiled (in milk???) and served on toasts,
IIRC.

I'm sorry that I've been unable to think of anything closer to what you
had in mind. It may turn out that there is some kind of period
bruschetta or focaccio made with olive oil, cheese, etc., on top, but
I'm not aware of it if there is...although it seems kind of logical.

Adamantius
Østgardr, East


Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:19:00 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - trencher history guesses

> >>In the towns, the average bread use was about 2 pound per person a
> day.<<
>
> Bear, is this a scribal error?  I am one of the biggest bread eaters I
> know and I don't come close to that amount.  Maybe 2 pounds per week.  I
> love bread with gravy, or honey, or jam, or soup, or....
>
> Allison

No it's taken from Scully's comments about several studies of medieval town
life.  Apparently, cereals in the form of bread, beer and porridge were the
staples of the European diet.

IIRC, there was a footnote else where in The Art of Cookery In the Middle
Ages which placed per capita meat consumption in one of the towns at about
46 kilos per year.

Of course both Braudel and Scully are looking at the Late Medieval Period,
when the standard of living in Europe was the highest it would be before
modern times.

If I weren't eating much of anything else, I can put away two pounds of
bread a day easily.  It's the gallon of beer that would do me in.

Bear


Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:52:29 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - trencher history guesses

> Wasn't this 2 pounds of bread per day plus a gallon of beer part of
> a workman's *wages*, and therefore expected to be taken home & shared with
> his family?  Also, was not the beer more than likely small beer?
>
> Cindy

"Recent historians have found enough data to let them estimate the usual
consumption of bread in the late Middle Ages, and their figures for various
countries are surprisingly similar.  In lordly English households at this
time, for instance, a standard daily food ration allowed every individual
between roughly two and three pounds of bread and about a gallon of ale.
Interestingly, the same allowance applied in the provisioning of castle
garrisons and for inmates in hospitals.  In France for each of the 3500
residents of Chambery the amount of wheat that entered the town - to be
consumed ultimately and mainly, we have to assume, in the form of bread -
was 24 litres per month, that is to say approximately .8 litres of wheat
(enough for a two-pound loaf of bread) per citizen per day.  Florentines of
the fourteenth century likewise averaged about two pounds of bread per day.
Francoise Desportes has found that even by the beginning of the thirteenth
century Paris had seventy water mills alone, without counting the windmills
sited on the summits of its hills!  Such figures as these support the
observation that bread was the basis of the medieval diet."

- -- Terence Scully, The Art of Cookery in the Middle Ages, Boydell
paperback edition, 1997, pg. 36-37.

The information about meals as part of wages I've seen does not include
quantities.

Steve Pursley (Barat FitzWalter Reynolds) whose Mead Page you reference in a link from your webpage, produced a period small beer from German monestary records.  I don't think I could survive a quart of it, much less a gallon a day.

Bear


Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 06:32:56 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - period bread comments

Hi all from Anne-Marie

It is my considered opinion that the medieval concept of perfect bread
would be WonderBread. White. Fluffy. Sans crunchy bits.

I figure this because of all the descriptions of period bread we have in
cookbooks and other places. The few recipes we have for bread specifically
state to take FINE flour. There's a recipe for bread called "pouft".
Manchets are described as being of fine clear flour. (Check out Elisabeth
Davids English Bread and Bread cookery for a good survey of the info on
bread in our period).

Treatiese on agricultures specifically state that you are bolt your flour
(the process by which germ and chaff and the like are removed) multiple
times. Once or twice is for ordinary bread. More than that, (ie whiter and
purer, most definately not whole wheat) for fine manchet for the lords
table, more yet for the Host for Mass.

Sure the peasants might have eaten course textured bread with all kinds of
bits and stuff in the flour, but as the germ and chaff were recovered as
animal feed, I doubt that it was the norm (if you bolt it, a simple enough
procedure, not only would you get "better" flour, but your critters would
get a bit of grain in their diet.)

There's mentions of folks eating bread with pea flour and chestnut flour,
etc, but that's usually referred to as famine food, ie when theres no more
wheat. By the way, pea flour makes tasty bread :). Though it wouldnt be
appropriate to serve it at a great feast, of course. If you're that short
on supplies, what are you doing holding a feast for 150 people, anyway?? :)

I believe that the SCA convention of "medieval people didnt eat as nice of
stuff" is just that, an SCA convention. Right up there with how everyone
drinks hot wine with spices all the time. (I've only actually seen recipes
for hot wine beverages that are considered medicinal. I found a hint of a
Spanish one, but need to track it down. Hot spiced wine, however does not
seem to be as ubiquitous as SCA people make it out to be. Go figure!)

When I make bread for medieval cookery, I use unbleached white flour, as
I'm cooking for a noble house. (of course there's the whole question as to
whether or not the cook would be baking bread, but we wont go into that
here :)). I need to do some digging as to what type of wheat exactly a 15th
century Franco Flemish gal would have had access to (gluten/protien and ash
content). King Arthur Flour has all kinds of flours broken out so once I
have that info I should be able to be pretty close to right.

anyway, that's my take on it...
- --AM


Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:40:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Hrynkiw <donna at Kwantlen.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: SC - period bread comments

Greetings from Elizabeth Braidwood,

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com wrote:
> Try experimenting with spelt flour.  I think this may also answer our
>question concerning poundage.  A machine-made loaf of spelt bread weighs 
>considerably more than the same size loaf made from regular wheat or whole 
>wheat flour.
> Wolfmother

I can confirm this statment. Through a pleasant coincidance, I made
two batches of bread yesterday using the same recipe, but used whole grain
wheat flour for one (ground it myself from the berry) and whole grain
spelt for the other (ground by the producer). The spelt was noticeably
heavier than the wheat.

It also rose (raised?) faster than the whole wheat -- to the point where
although I had timed the batches for baking a half-hour apart, they were
both ready for the oven at the same time. Odd, that.

E.B.
==================
|    Mistress Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood, Northern Region, An Tir


Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:59:34 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Semmel?

> My question is about an ingredient that is repeatedly mentioned,
> "Semmel", which appears to be a sort of cracker that is used, crumbeled
> or ground up, to thicken a large number of the dishes, among other uses.
>
> Chimene

I believe you will find Semmel is either semolina or a yeast cake (roll or
bun) made from semolina.  Since you are talking about it being crumbled and
used in other recipes, I'd opt for the bread rather than the flour.

Bear


Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:46:19 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Easter Foods (was Name thread)

> While I have no Cheese soup recipe, I encourage any of the festival
> breads as Easter fare.  Panforte, pan de mayne, IIRC, I believe are
> two.  Leavened breads stuffed with dried fruits, spice, and rich in
> texture.
>
> niccolo difrancesco

I think you are thinking of panettone and pan d' oro.  Panettone is a
sweetened bread stuffed with fruit.  Pan d' oro is similar to pound cake.

Panforte is a spice honey cake consisting primarily of fruit and unleavened.
Pan de mayne is fine white bread.

Bear


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:22:20 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Art/Sci results

> The holes left as
> the suet melts are similar to those left by bubbles of carbon dioxide from
> baking powder (cooking soda etc).  Please enlighten me if my science is
> wrong here!!
>
> Jean le Renaud de Pyranees

The similarity is they are voids.  The aeration of a leaven leaves no
residue (other than alcohol, which cooks off) since it is physically part of
the dough.  Fats used in bread making tend to be very soft or liquid as
doughs have a tendency to absorb these, which is why tins are best greased
with a solid.  Less absorption during the second rise, less sticking to the
tin.

Solid fat inclusions in a dough tend to melt during baking and are partially
absorbed.  Any fat remaining coats the inside of the void and provides some
rigidity on cooling.  I would expect the result to be denser than a good
yeast leavened bread, but not as dense as a sourdough, and to be a
comparatively soft to most breads.

It's an interesting technique to be tucked away in the notebook for future
experimentation.

Bear


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:58:11 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - open fire bread bakeing question

And it came to pass on 29 Jun 99,, that Melanie Wilson wrote:
> > Be careful of your heat source, if the griddle gets too hot, the heat
> > is uneven and you will burn the bottom of the loaf, as I have done.

> We have but we just cut the bottom off :)

I know several recipes that call for toast as an ingredient.... all of them
contain the instruction to begin by removing the burnt parts with a grater.

Brighid, wondering if it would be feasible to bring her sourdough starter
to Pennsic

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:36:23 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - bread recipes--??

> Does anyone know where I might find some period bread recipes? Also, does
> anyone know what you're supposed to do with rolled oats to make oatcakes?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Isabelle

Since baking was a seperate art from cooking and had a strong guild, there
are very few recipes for bread among the cooking texts.  Four are known to
have appeared prior to 1600.  A fifth was mentioned in passing on the list,
but I have not seen a copy of it.  Just after 1600, there are a number of
recipes for bake goods which were probably in use before the turn of the
century.

You can find the recipes online in Stefan's Florilegium, but I think copying
a couple pages from a handout I'm preparing will be a little quicker.  I
think you can find redactions for all of these in the Florilegium or
Cariadoc's Miscellany.

Bear

The Recipes

In the European corpus of recipes from 500 C.E. to 1600 C.E., there are four
known recipes for bread.

Brede and Rastons

Take fayre Flowre and the whyte of Eyroun and the yolk, a lytel.  Then take
Warme Berme, and putte al thes to-gederys and bete hem to-gederys with thin
hond tyl it be schort and thikke y-now, and cast Sugre y-now ther-to, and
thenne let rest a whyle.  An kaste in a fayre place in the oven and late
bake y-now.  And then with a knyfe cutte yt round a-bove in maner of a
crowne, and kepe the crust that thou kyttest, and then cate ther-in
clarifiyd Boter and Mille the cromes and the botere to-gederes, and kevere
it a-yen with the cruste that thou kyttest a-way.  Than putte it in the oven
ayen a lytil tyme and then take it out, and serve it forth.

        Harleian MS 279, approx. 1430, as taken from Austin, Thomas, Two
Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books.

Bread from Platina

I recommend to anyone who is a baker that he use flour from wheat meal, well
ground, and then passed through a fine sieve to sift it; then put it in a
bread pan with warm water, to which has been added salt, after the manner of
the people of Ferrari in Italy.  After adding the right amount of leaven,
keep it in a damp place if you can and let it rise.  That is the way bread
can be made without much difficulty.  let the baker beware not to use more
or less leaven than he should; in the former instance, the bread will take
on a sour taste, and in the latter, it becomes heavy and unhealthful and is
not readily digested,  The bread should be well baked in an oven, and not on
the same day; bread from fresh flour is most nourishing of all, and should
be baked slowly.

        Platina's De Honesta Voluptate

To Make Fine Manchet

Take halfe a bushell of fine flour twise boulted, and a gallon of faire luke
warm water, almost a handful of white salt, and almost a pint of yest, then
temper these together without any more liquor, as hard as ye can handle it:
then let it lie halfe an hower, then take it up, and make your Manchetts,
and let them stande almost an hower in the oven. Memorandum, that of every
bushell of meale may be made five and twentie caste of bread, and every loaf
to way a pound besyde the chesill.

        The Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchen, 1594

To Make Good Restons

Take a quart of fine flower, lay it on a faire boord, and make a hole in the
midst of the flower with your hand, and put a sawcerfull of Ale Yest
therein, and ten yolkes of Egges, and put thereto two spoonefuls of Synamon,
and one of Ginger, and a spoonfull of Cloves and Mace, and a quarterne of
Sugar fine beaten, and a little Safron, and halfe a spoonefull of Salt.
Then take a dishfull of Butter, melt it and put it into your flower, and
therwithall make your paste as it were for Manchets, and mould it a good
while and cut it in peeces the bignes of Ducks Egges, and so moulde everye
peece as a Manchet, and make them after the fashion of a Ackorn broad above,
and narrow beneath.  Then set them in an Oven, and let them bake three
quarters of an howre.  Then take five dishes of Butter and claryfie it clean
upon a soft fire the drawe foorth your Restons foorth of the Oven, and
scrape the bottoms of them faire and cut them overthwart in foure peeces,
and put them in a faire charger and put your clarified butter pon them.
Then have powder of Synamon and Ginger ready by you, and Sugar very fine.
And mingle them altogether, and ever as you set your peeces thence, together
cast some of your sugar, Synamon and Ginger upon them, and when you have set
them all by, lay them in a faire platter, and put a little butter upon them,
and cast a little sugar upon them, and so serve them in.

        The Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchen, 1594


Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:33:37 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - OT rye verses pumpernickle

> hi, I'm looking for some info, can anyone tell me the difference
> between rye and pumpernickle? I always thought pumpernickle was a
> form of rye. Am starting this new diet, and it says rye is not good,
> but pumpernickle is ok, now I'm confused.
>
> Fiona

I am presuming we are talking about bread rather than the grain.  Rye and
pumpernickel are both made from rye flour.  They are often made with
molasses as the sweetener.  Pumpernickel often has coffee or cocoa added to
make it darker.  The primary natural difference is that pumpernickel is a
coarser meal with lots of bran.  For this reason, pumpernickel has more
roughage than rye, which is useful in reducing cholesterol and
triglycerides.  Other than that, there is no inherent health benefit of
which I am aware between the two types of bread.

Bear


Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:13:00 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - OT rye verses pumpernickle

> By this presumption, that cocoa or molasses are oft added to pumpernickel,
> then there is no period dark bread?  Other than adding honey or mead/mash
> to bread how would period dark bread have been made.
>
> Frederich

It is likely the darkest loaves in the Middle Ages were adulterated with nut
flour or ground legumes.  In general, the bread of choice was fine wheat
bread, as white as possible, and brown breads were for the less affluent.  I
haven't tried these flours yet, but it is an idea for what to do with the
leftover walnuts from the Christmas baking.  It may also be that I haven't
been able to get the right grade of dark, whole meal rye flour, but I doubt
it.

I suspect that the coffee, cocoa and black molasses business is of 19th
Century origin to produce those healthy peasant breads and restore the
vitality of the good burghers.

In general, the way to get a darker loaf is to use a coarse, whole meal
flour from dark grain and don't bolt out the germ.  The oils in the germ
tend to make the crumb bake darker.  Using dark syrups for sweetner seem to
help darken bread, but that is probably from the complexity of the sugars,
rather than the color of the sweetner.  Also I don't see a medieval baker
wasting much sweetner on an inexpensive loaf.

Thanks for making me think about that.  I may be able to get a natural black
loaf yet.

Bear


Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:57:51 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Russian Black Bread

> As I prepare to attack my kitchan in preperation for Elfsea Defender, I've
> been going through my messages looking for what we decided on how they made
> Russian black bread dark, other than the modern instant coffee, chocolate
> and molasses? I think the Molasses may be period, but I know the coffee and
> chocolate aren't. If I leave out the coffee and chocolate and increase the
> molasses a bit, would it taste right and look dark enough?
>
> Anya

One of the questions I ask myself is, "Is Russian black bread period?"  What
references are there for it?  I have not yet found a reference to answer the
questions.

Since the bakers who prepared non-wheat loaves were commonly referred to as
"Brown Bakers," it is possible that the common color of rough loaves was
brown and that black bread is a fairly modern creation.

For what you are attempting, try to find a coarse rye whole meal.  If you
can find something labeled as pumpernickel flour, you'll probably be as
close to the proper meal as you can get.

Molasses is period, but I would expect it to be rather expensive in Russia,
and probably not used in the bread of the time for that reason.

Bon Chance, and let me know how it goes.

Bear


Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:36:09 -0000From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)Subject: Re: SC - Russian Black BreadBear wrote:>Molasses is period, but I would expect it to be rather expensive in Russia,>and probably not used in the bread of the time for that reason.In Iceland, fairly dark rye bread was baked from rye and water - and nothingelse, no sugar, no salt, no yeast. The following passage describes how thistype of bread was made. The author (who, BTW, wrote the only Icelandic bookavailable on the foodstuffs of the Viking age) notes that he is describing avery old method that was still used when he was growing up in rural Icelandin around 1900:"In my childhood home it was done thus: coarse, homeground, unsifted rye wasmixed with water and kneaded into a smooth, stiff dough. It was then formedinto a round bread, 30-40 cm across and around 10 cm thick, with a flatbottom but the top was rounded. This big cake was then placed on a thicklayer of peat embers and a large metal pot was inverted over it. More peatembers were arranged around and on top of the pot, so it looked like amound, and a heavy, flat stone was placed on top and a cross sign made overit. The embers glowed under the ashes and the stone for a whole night andinto the next day. Then the mound was broken and the baked bread removed. Itwas much like rye bread is now. The dark red brown crust did have somecracks. The bottom was not burned at all, but smooth and evenly baked. Thesebreads were then cut in slices, just like rye bread. They were dark, malty,sweetish and moist. They were the best breads I have ever tasted."Those lucky enough to live close to a hot spring or in an area withgeothermal activity used another method. They placed their dough in a metalcontainer and buried it in the hot ground. Then it was dug up the next dayand was then baked (or steamed, rather). This is still done and you can buydark rye bread baked in hot earth in most supermarkets here. Now it usually(but not always) contains some form of sugar, though, and salt, and yeast.If you don´t have a hot spring at hand, you can also steam the bread in theoven or in a large pot on top of the stove - the longer the better. I havehere a recipe where rye bread is steamed in a 100 C (212 F) oven for 19hours. This produces a very moist, dark bread.I note that the label of the German pumpernickel bread (imported fromGermany) that my supermarked carries says just rye, water, salt, yeast. Nomolasses, or cocoa, or coffee, or anything else. And it is very dark.Nanna

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:21:10 -0500From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>Subject: RE: SC - Russian Black Bread        <clipped>> The dark red brown crust did have some> cracks. The bottom was not burned at all, but smooth and evenly baked.> These> breads were then cut in slices, just like rye bread. They were dark,> malty,> sweetish and moist. They were the best breads I have ever tasted."        <clipped>> I note that the label of the German pumpernickel bread (imported from> Germany) that my supermarked carries says just rye, water, salt, yeast. No> molasses, or cocoa, or coffee, or anything else. And it is very dark.>> NannaI've been able to reproduce the dark red brown ryes without much troubleusing a higher percentage of rye flour.The pumpernickel bread I'm familiar with is so brown the loaves appearblack.  The recipes I can find, at a minimum use a dark sweetener, commonlymolasses, and often adulterants like coffee or cocoa which will increase thedarkness of the loaf.  These are obviously modern additions.I'm also curious about rye varieties and the color of the grain.  Forexample, wheat runs from very pale yellow to a deep red brown, depending onthe variety.  Hard red winter wheat is used to make strong bread flour andregular whole wheat, while a high gluten pale is used to make white wholewheat bread flour.  Low gluten pales with the germ removed are often used incake flours.  This thread has started me wondering about the varieties ofrye and their properties.Most of the readily available rye flour in the US tends to be a light brownand probably finer meal than is desirable for pumpernickel.  This means Ineed to find a source for pumpernickel meal to experiment.  I'm wonderinghow dark a loaf I can get without adulterants.  I suspect it will be a deepbrown rather than a black, but until I do it, I won't know.Bear

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:14:51 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: SC - Early Medieval Irish Bread and Porridges

Considering the discussions which have gone on about bread on the list in
the recent past, I thought some people might be interested in a
serendipitous find I made while checking the carts of new books at the
college where I teach.

Regina Sexton, "Porridges, Gruels and Breads: The Cereal Foodstuffs of Early
Medieval Ireland", in EARLY MEDIEVAL MUNSTER: ARCHAEOLOGY, HISTORY AND
SOCIETY, ed. Michael A. Monk and John Sheehan ( Cork: Cork University press,
1998), pp. 76-86.

The article is based on information from the literature and legal documents
from the early material of Ireland, and the author is able to reconstruct a
surprising amount about these foods, including what was eaten with them as
condiments. While there is no specific recipe given, there is enough detail
available to indicate the ingredients, shaping and handling, cooking
techniques, etc., so that I should think a modern experimenter could make a
pretty close approximation of the beard eaten by the early Irish. The
section headings give a good picture of the contents:

Porridges and gruels
Breads
Ingredients of bread
Baking utensils and methods of preparation
Monastic and penitential bread
The condiments and relishes associated with bread
Conclusion
Notes and bibliography

Yours culinarily,
Francesco Sirene


Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:49:30 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - bread

> TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
> << While the dough
>  could have been placed in a pan, allowed a second rise and then baked,
>  baking the dough directly in the pot from a single rise is probably closer
>  to period country and field practice.
>
>  Bear     >>
>
> Documentation, please?
> Ras

None of the four period European bread recipes describes a double rise.  The
describe doughs that are allowed to rise, then shaped and baked, or that are
shaped then allowed to rise and baked.  The recipes appear to depend heavily
on oven-spring.

>From experience, true sourdough rises take a long time.  The time can be cut
by shaping the loaves and letting them go through a single rise, which may
be what is described in Platina.

Field and country baking often have limited capacity and are often done with
serious time constraints.  Where fast acting yeast is unavailable, a single
rise is the practical solution.  These are often done with low gluten
cereals, which make the idea of any rise moot.

Bear


Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:54:01 EDT
From: Tollhase1 at aol.com
Subject: SC - Dark Breads revisited-mostly OT

Sometime ago there was a discussion of how dark breads were colored to
achieve there tint without the use of molasses or coca powder.

Last night while I was baking bread to aleive my migraine, I had a happy
accident.  I threw in some nuts, various whole grains, etc., and some raisins
since it would be eaten hot for breakfast.  Please note I was using a
breadmaker, threw the stuff in and forget it.  Wake up to the smell or fresh
bread.  Anyway, I put the stuff in after the first Kneading and prior to the
second.  The machine so thoroughly blended the raisins during the punch down
phase, that we had no whole pieces left, just a dark rye color.  The bread
tasted like a subtle sweet raisin with a nice nutty flavor from the sunflower
and sesame seeds.

Thought some of you might be interested.  Are their perchance bread recipes
out there that call for raisins that we may have misinterpreted?

Lord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase


Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:36:44 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Dark Breads revisited-mostly OT

> Thought some of you might be interested.  Are their perchance bread
> recipes out there that call for raisins that we may have misinterpreted?
>
> Lord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase

Of the four period European bread recipes, none calls for raisins.  From
Nana's translation of period Danish(?) comments on bread, it is obvious that
some form of dill bread is period.

It is possible that raisins were used in some Roman bread recipes, but I
haven't seen any and I have yet to find Chrysippus of Tyana's treatise on
bread, which would likely provide the most definitive answer.

In any event, most fruit filled breads add relatively coarse pieces of fruit
during the shaping rather than pulping it into the dough.  The technique is
worth remembering for special occasions.

Bear


Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:35:17 -0400
From: "Micaylah" <dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca>
Subject: SC - Oldest Bread in Britain - OOP

Found this on the BBC News Online site and thought it might be of some
interest.

Micaylah

**********************************

Oldest Bread in Britain
Tuesday, October 12, 1999 Published at 17:41 GMT 18:41 UK
By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

Small pieces of burnt bread, discovered in a pit at Yarnton in
Oxfordshire, UK, have been dated and found to be 5,500 years old. This
makes the Neolithic bread the oldest ever found in Britain.

The pieces turned up when the soil from the recently-excavated pit was
mixed with water, allowing light material to float and be removed.

Initially, the burnt fragments were mistaken for pieces of wood
charcoal, but when Dr Mark Robinson from the Oxford University Museum
examined them through a microscope, he could clearly see
partially-crushed grains of barley.

From the amount of radioactive carbon in the sample, it is estimated
that the bread was baked between 3620 - 3350 BC.

A flint knife was also found in the pit, along with over 200 flint
flakes, some of which had been sharpened and serrated.

Crumbs of pottery were also discovered, along with hazelnut shells and
apple cores.

Archaeologists speculate that it may have been a rubbish deposit, but
the presence of a knife in good condition and the bread suggests it
was a religious offering.

The bread was made by the first farmers to arrive in central England
having migrated from mainland Europe.

They cleared the extensive forests and planted wheat and barley as
well as keeping cattle and pigs.


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 00:33:50 -0500
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Horse Bread

Someone was just looking for a reference to horse-bread.  I am packing to
go to an event, and it is after midnight, so I ripped off the page for
November the 18th, and lo, on the 19th, the Forgotten English Calendar
has this:
        "horse-bread
A peculiar sort of bread made for feeding horses"
        -Robert Nares's  'Glossary of the Works of English Authors', 1859

"Take two bushels of good clean beans and one bushel of wheat, and grind
them together.  Then, through a fine [sieve], bolt out the quantity of
two pecks of pure meal, and bake it in two or three loaves by itself.
The rest sift through a meal sieve and knead it with water and good store
of barme [yeast].  And so, bake it in breat loaves and with the coarser
bread feed your horse in his rest."
        -Gervase Markham's 'Country Contentments', 1615

St. Elizabeth's Day, Patron Saint of Bakers

A very good day for cooks (and horses!)
Christianna


Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 07:14:03 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - barley bread

Stefan li Rous wrote: 
> Bear said:
> > The one statement I might agree with was that the common bread was
> > unleavened, as the primary grain for much of Europe was barley.  But there
> > is nothing particularly wrong with unleavened flat breads.
> 
> Huh? Are you saying you can't leaven barley bread? Even with ale barm
> and such? What about barley/wheat mixes?

Oh, you can add leaven. It's just that on its own, barley has no gluten,
and instead of inflating with CO2, it sits there making sizzling noises
as the gas escapes, and bakes more or less into a flatbread anyway. Not
necessarily a cracker-like flatbread, more like a bannock. Adding some
wheat will improve this, as you say.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:50:39 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Book - History of Bread?

> Recently an article from the New York Times came over the wire service; it
> was a review of a book called History of Bread by Bernard Dupaigne.
> 
> It's obviously not a completely new release, since the review mentions that 
> it was first published in France, but I'm not sure how long it's been out
> in the US. I'd be interested in hearing commments from anyone who's read it 
> (the review is mixed, with some recipes described as "seriously flawed"). 
> 
> Any comments that will help me decide whether to buy much appreciated!
> 
> Kylie

You don't buy this book for the recipes.  Dupaigne is a noted historian with
ties to the Museum of Man, one of the major antropological/archeological
institutes in France.  It is apparently what the title says it is, a
historical examination of bread.

I came across a bibliography entry for this book in French a few years ago.
After reading some of the related footnotes, I decided I wanted a copy even
if I had to do my own translation.  The Roders have saved me the trouble.
The American edition came out last November. 

If you are looking for historical information for the reference shelf, the
book is probably right up your alley.  If the interest is casual, try
getting through the library, $60 is a little steep for light reading.  If
you are interested in recipes for baking, I'd look at The Italian Baker,
Bernard Clayton's book on French breads, or David's English Bread and Yeast
Cookery.

Bear


Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:38:36 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - sourdough experiment #1 alternate method

> The starter sponge that I use isn't the San Francisco
> lactobacillus.  But it does have a strong sour taste.
> 
> My recipe is two cups of flour and one cup of flat
> beer.  I usually use rye flour and, if I am fortunate,
> I will use home brewed beer.  It takes about three
> days to start to bubble.  I usually keep it on the
> counter next to the oven.  I personally think that the
> introduction of beer gives the bread a closer flavor
> to breads that were baked using barm.
> 
> Huette

Rather than beer, I would suggest unhopped brown ale, but let's not quibble,
I've used beer for flavoring.  A rye based starter is produced by different
strains of yeast and lactobacillus than a wheat based starter and is
generally sourer than wheat based starters.

A point to remember is that the breads made with barm are primarily a
northern European thing in period although Gothic bakers brought the
technique to Rome in the 1st Century BCE.  Most southern European bakers
used leavens.

In France, the use of ale barm was considered bad practice.  At some point
using anything other than a levain was prohibited by law and remained that
way until some time in the 19th Century, if I remember the dates, when the
prohibtion was lifted so Parisian bakers could produce some of their highly
aerated breads.

If you have a good starter, you might consider drying some of it and
wrapping it in foil to give to people who are interested in trying it.

Bear


Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:03:30 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Roman Recipes LONG

>> Or flat bread to wrap the food in- the original souvlaki, falafal, gyros
>> sandwich etc. Even food like barley can be served in bread bowls.
>
>And when we discussed bread bowls further back no one could point to
>bread bowls being period as food containers. Anyone have any evidence
>for this being done in period, now?

Yes. In Athenaeus' Deipnosophistae (III. 125-126vol 2, pp 83-85, 1928
edition), from a string of disjointed quotations:

"Give me a mystilÍ [ed.- a piece of bread used in lieu of a spon]; for I
will not use the word mystron..."

And then:

[Athenaeus quoting Nicander] "'But when you prepare a dish of fresh-killed
kid or lamb or capon, sprinkle some groats in a hollow bowl and pound them
well, then stir in a fragrant oil, well mixed.  When the broth is boiling
hard, pour it over the meal, put the lid on the pan, and smother it; for
when it is stewed in this way, the heavy meal swells up.  Serve it when
mildly warm in hollow mystra.' [Athenaeus speaking] In these
terms...Nicander indicates the use of pudding and barley-groats , directing
that a broth of lamb or kid or fowl be poured over it.  To repeat his
words: pound the groats in a mortar, mix oil with it and stir it in the
broth when it begins to boil.  When, after these preliminaries, the mixture
actively boils up again, it should be stirred with the ladle without adding
any other ingredient; simply spoon it off as it is, to prevent any of the
rich fat at the top from boiling over.  That is why he says 'put on the lid
and cover the boiling liquid'; for the meal swells up then it is smothered
in this way.  Finally, when it has cooled to a mild heat, eat it with
hollow pieces of bread."


He mentions earlier (p. 105), in a list of comestibles served at a feast,
"stuffed fig-leaves".  The editorial note says "[spelled in greek letters]
thrion, a dish often mentioned by the comic poets, consisting of eggs,
milk, flour, honey, cheese, and lard in a  wrapping of fig leaves.  Cf. the
modern Greek dish dolmades, made with grape leaves.

Cindy


Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:15:37 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - REC:  A TARTE OF STRAWBERRIES & questions

> Also, I sent this recipe to my Jewish list group.  Can anybody tell me where 
> this responder got the idea that medieval bread was steamed?   I want to 
> answer her (beehive oven, etc etc) but want to be accurate.  I have never 
> heard of medieval bread being steamed.
> Phillipa
> << 
>  Thank you Phillipa for this interesting recipe. I know that white bread would
>  probably have been steamed at that time but it's interesting and I'd love
>  to see more.

The only breads that I know were steamed (or simmered, depending on the
recipe) were puddings and the ones I know of are 16th Century or later.

Medieval breads normally were baked.  Woodcuts, painting, and historical
records bear this out.  White bread was made white by grinding the flour
very fine and sieving out the chisel in two or more boltings.  The ovens may
have been moist from swabbing, but that is different from steaming.

Also, IIRC, the period bread recipes we have call for baking

It is possible that your correspondent is confusing "peggy tub" bread, where
the dough is wrapped and allowed to rise in a pan of water, with steaming.
It is a process first mentioned by Pliny.

I am puzzled by your correspondent's opinion, because I can think of nothing
which would give it a solid base.  I would recommend reading Elizabeth
David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery to provide a broader view of the
history of baking.

Bear


Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:05:39 EDT
From: DeeWolff at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - anise, fennel, dill clarification

 Fennel Buns
    "The same baker should mix as much flour with warm water as is enough to 
make a bun and then put into the mixture fennel seeds and chopped bits of 
lard,or butter, and mix again as long as necessary to bring it all into a 
single mass, Then he should press it into a round shape with his hands and 
put it in the oven with the bread, or he may bake it on a hearth under a lid  
covered with ashes and coals". 


 Platina: On Right Pleasure and Good Health,1468.

Andrea
Ostgardr


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:36:06 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - TI article?

> Bear: how would your version of a "viking plausible" bread look?
> 
> /UlfR

Based on some of the information Nanna has provided, I would use coarse rye
or maslin flour, mix it with water and form a round loaf.  Letting the dough
rest for 4 or 5 hours before forming and baking will produce a little
fermentation which will assist the oven spring.  The loaf would be baked on
a baking stone under a metal pot surrounded and covered by slow burning
embers (peat might be the fuel of choice.  The rye bread is the most
documentable Scandinavian bread and the method of baking is a traditional
one.

The barley bread would be a mixture of barley flour and water, perhaps with
a little salt to enhance the flavor.  Pat the dough into small flat cakes
and bake on a bakestone or a griddle.

Wheat or maslin might be used for a sourdough bread.  In previous
discussions, you have commented on a study showing that wild yeast was found
in the old home bread troughs.  Such a dough would most likely be made of
flour, water, and possibly salt.  The bread would be baked in a manner
similar to the rye loaves above.

Wheat and maslin could also be used for griddle breads.  Again, water,
flour, and maybe salt.

Where oats were used, I would expect oat meal, water and a little fat.  Oat
breads seem to do better with a little fat in the dough.  It too is a
griddle cake.

Honey might be added to a barley or a wheat bead, but I would think that
would be reserved for festive occasions.

I serious question the use of oil and as you pointed out, if a fat was used
it was probably lard or butter.

In my opinion, the most common loaves would be a large rye loaf followed by
a barley or maslin griddle bread.  

Bear


Subject: RE: ANST - Medieval Locks
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:45:28 -600
From: gunnora at realtime.net
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org (ansteorra)

Bors asked:
> UH- What about medieval bagels?

Try the excellent recipe by Mistress Þóra Sharptooth, "Viking Barley Bagels:
Unleavened Barley Buns", located at:
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/vikbagels.html

::GUNNORA::


Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:44:05 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Trenchers Oh my!

> I just finished reading Ed Wood's book, and I'm very excited about the
> Russian culture myself, as well as the Austrian one. However, I think he
> tends to exaggerate the documentablity of his cultures just a bit.
 
Good observation.  Outside of the Egyptian bakery re-creation which was done
under archeological scrutiny, I tend to take his historical comments with a
grain of salt.  One of his claims is that sourdough is 10,000 years old.
Unfortunately it is documentable only to about 3,500 BCE with inscription
and archeological evidence in Egypt and archeological evidence from the
Neolithic Swiss lake villages.  Sourdough appears roughly coincident with
the arrival of emmer wheat whose grain separates from the husk far easier
than einlkorn.  Since toasting the grain helped to separate the husk and
coincidentally coagulated the gluten, a wheat which can be easily separated
without toasting increases the probability of accidentally discovering
leavened bread. 

Bear


Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:04:47 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Rusks???

DeeWolff at aol.com writes:
<< I'm diving into a Dutch cookbook and I don't know what rusks are. Can 
anyone help??
 
Andrea M. >>

rusk (noun)

[modification of Spanish & Portuguese rosca coil, twisted roll]

First appeared 1595

 1 : hard crisp bread orig. used as ship's stores

 2 : a sweet or plain bread baked, sliced, and baked again until dry and crisp

Ras


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] semmel?
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 06:13:37 -0500 

Simnel is specifically controlled under the Assize of Bread and Beer (13th
Century) which is why I think it may represent an enriched loaf which
evolved into a cake.

During Elizabeth's reign, bakers were prohibited from baking simnel  except
for a couple holy days (one being Easter) and for funerals, because the
proper weight of the simnel could not be assured (it was probably marzipan
filled at this point).

There is a 17th Century recipe available.

I'll post the quotes legal prohibitions when I can get to the files they're
in.

Bear

> More info on this Simnel cake, please. Both on this tradition of the
> serving girls going home at this time and this Simnel cake itself.
>
> Do you happen to have a recipe for this cake? Either original or
> redacted? (Typically this list, and the SCA, uses the term 'redacted'
> to mean converting an original recipe into a recipe in modern form
> givming amounts and perhaps more specific directions.)
>
> Thanks,
>   Stefan


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] semmel?
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:24:44 -0500 

>From the Assize of Bread and Beer:

"Assisa Panis (Assize of Bread): When a Quarter of Wheat is sold for 12d.,
then Wastel Bread of a farthing shall weigh =A36 and 16s. But Bread Cocket of
a farthing of the same grain and bultel, shall weigh more than Wastel by 2s.
And Cocket Bread made of grain of lower price, shall weigh more than Wastel
by 5s. Bread made into a Simnel shall weigh 2s. less than Wastel. Bread made
of the whole Wheat shall weigh a Cocket and a half, so that a Cocket shall
weigh more than a Wastel by 5s. Bread of Treet shall weigh 2 wastels. And
bread of common wheat shall weigh two great cockets.

When a quarter of wheat is sold for 18d., then wastel bread of a farthing
white and well-baked shall weigh =A34 10s. 8d...."

The Assize of Bread and Beer was first codified in the 12th Century and
became fixed in its form in the 14th Century, although changes were made
from time to time in regards the weights and costs.  It remained in law
until the 19th Century.


>From Elizabeth David (English Bread and Yeast Cookery):

"At one time simnel cakes were made with yeast-leavened dough and baked with
a layer of almond paste in the center of the cake.  The dough was spiced and
enriched with eggs, butter and dried fruit, so that the old simnel cake was
another variation of spice cake rather like the one described in the
Countess of Kent's recipe on p. 475

"Simnel cakes made on a basis of yeast dough were gradually superseded by
ordinary cake batters, and the strip of almond paste or marzipan moved from
the centre to the top of the cake, which was originally made for Mothering
Sunday.  Nowadays it has become associated with Easter."

In a related chapter, the following quote.

"The most interesting of the recipes is perhaps the simple spiced fruit bun,
the original of our Good Friday hot cross bun without the cross.  These
spice buns first became popular in Tudor days, at the same period as the
larger spice loaves or cakes, and were no doubt usually made from the same
batch of spiced and butter-enriched fruit dough.  For a long time bakers
were permitted to offer these breads and buns for sale only on special
occaisons, as is shown by the following decree issued in 1592, the
thirty-sixth year of the reign of Elizabeth I, by the London Clerk of
Markets:

"'That no bakers, etc, at any time or times hereafter make, utter, or sell
by retail, within or without their houses, unto any of the Queen's subjects
any spice cakes, buns, biscuits or other spice bread (being bread out of
size and not by law allowed) except it be at burials, or on the Friday
before Easter, or at Christmas, upon pain of forfeiture of all such spiced
bread to the poor.'"  (Stow's Survey of London, 1598 ed., ed. John Strype,
1720, Vol. 2, ch xxiv, p. 441)

So, by the Elizabethean period, simnel was a spice bread.  It may or may not
have been a spice bread when the Assize of Bread was written.  Since the
name is derived from the Latin "simila" meaning "fine flour," it is possible
that simnel was a fine, white, enriched bread (similar to the German
"semmel") that evolved into spice bread then, modernly, into a "biscuit",
similar to the evolution which occurred in restons.

Bear


Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:02:42 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
To: SCA-Cooks maillist <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] THE HISTORY OF BREAD, by Bernard Dupaigne

I just saw that this book was on sale at Jessica's Biscuit and thought
some of you might be interested. There will be few, if any, documentable
period bread recipes in this book. The roughly half dozen or so known
period recipes have all been discussed on this list, and can be found
in the Florilegium. However I thought some of the other info might be
of interest to the breadmakers out there. At this price, I did go ahead
and order a copy for me. :-)

Stefan

> THE HISTORY OF BREAD, by Bernard Dupaigne
> Harry N. Abrades, Inc., Publishers, 1999
> http://www.ecookbooks.com/products.html?item=B134
> Jessica's Biscuit Price: $29.98 YOU SAVE 50%
> Retail Price: $60.00
> Bread is the symbol of shared food, the very essence of life. It is deeply
> anchored in virtually every civilization on earth. This spectacular book
> spans the globe to tell the fascinating story of one of the world's most
> revered foods, tracing its importance from ancient Egyptian times to today,
> and exploring the prominent cultural roles it has played in so many diverse
> societies. Since Biblical times, bakers around the world have worked to
> perfect the many varieties of bread, their efforts have resulted in braids,
> baguettes, whole wheat rolls, flatbread, croissants, in infinite profusion.
> Whether serving as the basic element of a sandwich, an accompaniment to a
> bowl of soup, or a treat of its own, bread is a universal staple. This
> extensive history also explores the many traditions surrounding bread, its
> significance in agricultural and religious festivals, the wealth of proverbs
> and popular sayings that have grown up around it, and the numerous riots,
> uprising and revolutions that bread has inspired. It is wonderfully written
> and beautifully illustrated with images of bakers over the ages from Egyptian
> art to present day color photographs, 19th Century bread advertisements,
> drawings of medieval mills and bread ovens. The twenty tantalizing,
> culturally significant bread recipes from diverse cultures are sure to
> transform many bread lovers into bakers.
--
THLord  Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas         stefan at texas.net


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] THE HISTORY OF BREAD, by Bernard Dupaigne
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:30:31 -0500

Thank you, Stefan.  I've been avoiding ordering a copy because of "sticker
shock."  I'll be putting an order in for one.

I don't know how good this translation is, but the French original is
classed as one of the most comprehensive historical studies of bread ever
made.

Bear

> > THE HISTORY OF BREAD, by Bernard Dupaigne
> > Harry N. Abrades, Inc., Publishers, 1999
> > http://www.ecookbooks.com/products.html?item=B134


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:54:32 -0500 
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Panforte was ( Re: Food gifts)

> Speaking of holiday gifts, last year I made the most awesome panforte
> from a recipe I found on the internet.  I took it to a couple of
> gatherings, and people raved about it.  Only problem is, I still can't
> figure out how to pronounce it correctly!  Any sugggestions?  :)
> Pan-fort sounded pretty silly.  Pan'-for-tay' sounded like something out
> of Blazing Saddles.  Pan-for'-tay sounded most likely right.
>
> -Magdalena vander Brugghe

Pan-for'-tay is about right.  Someone with a better grasp of Italian might
give you a more correct pronunciation.

The name essentially means "strong bread," most likely from the use of
pepper as one of the spices.  The earliest references are from 13th Century
monastery accounts where the bread was part of the rents and fees taken in
by the monastery.  I've found no period recipes for panforte, but I suspect
it may have been similar to period gingerbread.

Bear


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Panforte was ( Re: Food gifts)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:27:17 -0500 

I doubt if panforte was served year-round, but it keeps well and I suspect
that in the case of the monastery it was a treat for High Holy Days which
were not also fast days.

The specific primary reference is stated to be found in the Miscellanee
Storiche Senesi.  According to my sources, it is the record of a tithe of
"panpepati e mielati" or "pepper and honey bread" on some of the tenants of
the Monastery of Montecellesi in Siena paid on February 7, 1205.

Commonly called "panpepato," the bread became known as "panforte" in the
19th Century, apparently as a trade name to tie the bread to the first large
scale manufacturer in Siena.

My recipe for panforte:

Panforte

2 cups blanched, toasted almonds, coarsely chopped or slivered
1 cup raisins, Zante raisins (currants), or golden raisins
1 cup chopped dates
1 teaspoon grated lemon peel
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
1/4 teaspoon grated nutmeg
1/8 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 cup flour

3/4 cup sugar
3/4 cup honey
3 tablespoons butter

Mix the dry ingredients in a bowl, set aside.
Grease a 9 to 11 inch springform or tart pan with a removable bottom. Line
it with baker's parchment and grease the parchment.
Combine the sugar, honey and butter in a small sauce pan and bring to a boil

over medium heat. When the syrup is between the soft and firm ball stages
(about 245 degrees F), thoroughly mix the syrup into the dry ingredients to
make a stiff batter.
Scrape the batter into the prepared pan. Spread and smooth it.
Bake in a pre-heated 300 degree F oven for about 40 minutes.
Remove from the oven and let cool about 15 minutes. Separate the walls from
the base.
Allow the panforte to cool on the base.
Remove from base. Peel off parchment and serve.

Here's another recipe tied off to an SCA feast:
http://www.advancenet.net/~jscole/maidens.htm

Bear

Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:17:00 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] name of dish
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

It's from the 13th c. Andalusian cookbook, and is in the Miscellany
(webbed on my site) as:
Recipe for Murakkaba, a Dish which is Made in the Region of
Constantine and is Called Kutâmiyya
Andalusian p. A-62

We call it "stack of pancakes."

>>>
I am hoping his grace Cariadoc would please post the name of the
semolina unbaked loaf so I may find the recipe.  It was so very
interesting I would like to make it to take along to our cooks guild
meeting this saturday.

THLady Olwen the Odd
Clan of Odds
Barony of Bright Hills
Kingdom of Atlantia!
<<<

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:57:28 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a bread recipe.
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I am looking for a bread recipe. I am told that people would bake a
> special loaf that was ornate to celebrate the harvest. Any help would
> be appreciated.snipped
> LOL, sorry I guess this information would help. English people 
> around 1100 AD. Gerard

As promised--
Mason. Laura and Catherine Brown. Traditional Foods of Britain. An
Inventory. Totnes, Devon, U.K: Prospect Books, 1999. indicated that
these are associated with lardy cakes. Another type that goes back to
the 19th century is the harvest baker's cake which was eaten at a tea.
David, Elisabeth. English Bread and Yeast Cookery. 1977. New York:
Viking, 1980. contains material on lardy and harvest cakes with recipes.
I know that they are covered in several British regional and traditional
cookbooks, like the Mabey's and Maggie Black, but I don't have access to
those at the moment.

Jaine, Tom. Baking Bread at Home. Traditional Recipes from Around the
World. New York: Rizzoli, 1995 has a picture and contains instructions
on making a loaf in the shape of a sheaf of wheat.
Bernard Dupaigne in The History of Bread, 1999, also has pictures of
under a section entitled "The Harvest Bouquets." pp. 74-75.
The World Guide to Bread by Christine Ingram also has a paragraph and
picture of an English harvest loaf.

I'll try and come up with some more photo's from the web later on and
more on the folklore associated with the "harvest loaf."

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:51:58 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bread recipe request (OOP)
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>	

Traditional Struan Michael is a bannock (an unleavened cake) made from
cereal meal, milk, eggs and butter.  The Hebridean version usually uses
sheep milk.  The meal is dampened with milk, then the eggs and butter are
worked in, and more milk may be added to reach the right consistency. The
cake is then baked in an oven or on the hearth.  The types of cereals used
depend upon the types grown locally.  I don't even remember the source I got
that from.

Michaelmas presumably equates to the Celtic Lughnassad, so I suspect Struan
Michael is a modification of Irish fine wheat cake mentioned in the 
Early literature.

The modern adaptations try to turn this into a multi-grain yeast bread,
which the original is definitely not.  I don't think you'll find a recipe
for the traditional loaf unless you come across it in someone's 
manuscript cookbook.

Bear

> I'm usually a lurker, but I've run into something of a
> problem. I promised to make a bread called struan or struan
> michael for a get-together on
> Sunday. It's a traditional Scottish bread made at harvest
> time. The problem I've run into is that I cannot find a
> traditional recipe for it anywhere. The
> *only* recipes that I have found on-line are by Brother
> Juniper or Peter Rheinhardt, both of which are basically the
> same, and have "updated" the
> recipe for the "modern world." Does anyone have a recipe
> other than those two for struan?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nostas'ia Stepanova
> Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia
> (mka Rachel Trigg, Alexandria, VA)


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread recipe request (OOP)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Michaelmas presumably equates to the Celtic Lughnassad, so I suspect Struan
> Michael is a modification of Irish fine wheat cake mentioned in the 
> early literature.

*blink*?

Michaelmas, September 29th, is at the end of the grain harvest. I was
under the impression that Lughnassad was in the same time frame as Lammas,
the beginning of August and thus the beginning of the grain harvest...?

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:06:23 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread recipe request (OOP)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The best account from books on the shelf --

See The Scots Kitchen by F. Marion McNeill on page 230. She refers then
to her classic folklore accounts in volume 2 of The Silver Bough which I
own but is again boxed along with all the other helpful regional ones.
It's an elaborate preparation according to McNeill and not just an
everyday bannock. It originated in the Hebrides. I'll look but I'm not
sure that I will find much more than the description.

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:31:19 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread recipe request (OOP)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> Michaelmas presumably equates to the Celtic Lughnassad, so I suspect
Struan
>> Michael is a modification of Irish fine wheat cake mentioned in the 
>> early
>> literature.
>
> *blink*?
>
> Michaelmas, September 29th, is at the end of the grain harvest. I was
> under the impression that Lughnassad was in the same time frame as 
> Lammas,
> the beginning of August and thus the beginning of the grain harvest...?
>
> -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

I am considering this more in the mythology of the particular beings rather
than by dates.

Modern convention places Lammas and Lughnassad together.  The pagan Celtic
calendar was based on a lunar month and a 30 lunar year cycle.  Feast days
not fixed to the equinoxs tended to shift to different times in a month.

Most people also fail to take into account that the change from the Julian
to Gregorian calendar created a shift of ten days in the calendar and that
when England adopted the Gregorian calendar the shift was 11 days.

BTW, under the Julian calendar, the presumed date of Lughnassad falls more
closely to the Feast of the Assumption (Aug. 15) than to Lammas.

Bear


Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:01:47 -0500
From: Alex Clark <alexbclark at pennswoods.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Commercial bread leavening
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 10:01 AM 2/12/2004 -0700, Stefan wrote:
> I was going to ask whether this meant that most modern, commercial breads
> were soda breads, but then Admantius' comments make it clear that "soda
> bread" is actually a bit more specific than that. But this does raise a
> question. What is the rising agent in most commercial breads, the wonder
> bread and similar ones, not the artesian breads baked in your local deli?
> Are they using yeast or a chemical agent? For years I had assumed the
> latter, but now I'm wondering if it isn't yeast after all.

According to _On Food and Cooking_ by McGee (1984, Collier Books), "In
commercial baking, where time and work are money, mechanical dough
developers can produce a "ripe" dough, with good aeration and an optimum
gluten, in 4 minutes. Yeast is added to such doughs only as flavoring." 
(p. 308)

Alex Clark (Henry of Maldon)


Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:55:50 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Commercial bread leavening
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Most breads are leavened with yeast.  Chemical leavens don't generally
produce as fine a rise.  Breads made with chemical leavens have very
distinct tastes which some people find umpleasant.

Other than the quality of the ingredients, the primary difference between
commercial and artisan breads is that plain ole gummy white bread is
deliberately underbaked, while the artisan loaves are properly baked.

Bear

> Bear replied to me with:
>> Soda bread is a bread leavened with baking soda rather than yeast.
>
> I was going to ask whether this meant that most modern, commercial 
> breads
were soda breads, but then Admantius' comments make it clear that "soda
bread" is actually a bit more specific than that. But this does raise a
question. What is the rising agent in most commercial breads, the wonder
bread and similar ones, not the artesian breads baked in your local 
deli?
Are they using yeast or a chemical agent? For years I had assumed the
latter, but now I'm wondering if it isn't yeast after all.
>
> Stefan


Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:58:35 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Commercial bread leavening
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Uusally if you add chemicals to commercial bread it's things like diamalt to
boost the rise and improve the flavor, citric acid to improve flavor, and
preservatives to extend shelf life.

Bear

> As far as I know, virtually all of the commercial, packaged,
> pre-sliced, supermarket-sandwich breads are raised with yeast,
> possibly with the help of various chemicals, but primarily, yeast.
> For the most part, they're all some variation or imitation of the
> standard baker's white Pullman loaf, which you used to buy in
> bakeries and have sliced to order.
>
> Adamantius


Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:46:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>Platina has bread making instructions?
>Aellin

Yes.

"Therefore I recommend to anyone who is a baker that he use flour from  
wheat meal, well ground and then passed through a fine sieve to sift  
it; then put it in a bread pan with warm water, to which has been added  
salt, after the manner of the people of Ferrari in Italy. After adding  
the right amount of leaven, keep it in a damp place if you can and let  
it rise. That is the way bread can be made without difficulty. Let the  
baker beware not to use more or less leaven than he should; in the  
former instance, the bread will take on a sour taste, and in the  
latter, it becomes heavy and unhealthful and is not readily digested.  
The bread should be well baked in an oven, and not on the same day;  
bread from fresh flour is most nourishing of all, and should be baked  
slowly."
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rcull/bread.htm

Brighid ni Chiarain


Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:19:40 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Age of "hot cross buns"?
To: <mooncat at in-tch.com>, "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Does anyone know how old the "traditional" hot cross buns for Easter
> time are? I have a suspicion that they fall into one of those
> "traditional but not period" categories, but could sure be wrong!
> --maire

While the term "hot cross buns" is fairly recent, the idea of the spice bun
for Easter is definitely and old one.  Such spice breads were a specialty
item that bakers were allowed to make only at specific times since they  
fell outside of the Assize of Bread.

Stow's Survey of London, 1598, editted by John Strype in 1720, and quoted by
Elizabeth David in English Bread and Yeast Cookery, has a decree from 1592
issued by the London Clerk of the Markets, " That no bakers, etc, at any
time or times hereafter make, utter, or sell by retail, within or without
their houses, unto any of the Queen's subjects any spice cakes, buns,
biscuits or other spice bread ( being bread out of size and not by law
allowed) except it be at burials, or on Friday before Easter, or at
Christmas, upon pain of forfeiture of all such spice bread to the poor."

The decree proved unenforceable and fell by the wayside sometime in the
reign of James I.

Bear


Date: Thu, 19 Ag 2004 08:46:33 -0500 
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Seeking bread recipe 
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> 

>Do we have *any* bread recips from ancient greece? 
> 
>-Irmgart 

Yes, we do have bread recipes from Ancient Greece, but most are a simple 
description than an actual recipe.  You need some baking experience to feel 
your way through the recipes.  There are about 50 types of bread we have 
information on.  Another 30 types, we know only by name, due to references 
by other ancient authors to a lost treatise on breadmaking written by 
Chrysippus of Tyana. 

I haven't spent much time chasing these -- yet. 

Bear 


Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 18:47:46 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] was Libum recipe now whole wheat bread
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> naturally leavened bread - not sourdough, you don't let it get sour
>
> AEllin

I would point out that "sourdough" is not from the sour taste, but from the
fact that the dough ferments spontaneously, "sours."  The sour taste is
produces by lactobacilli in the ferment and varies widely among sourdoughs.
I have a starter which produces bread that is only slightly tangier then
bread from yeast.

If the recipe is a spontaneous leavening, then by definition, it is a
sourdough.

Bear


Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:53:03 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question about bakers guilds
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I'm looking for information on English bakers (baker's ?  bakers' ?)
> guilds for any time in the 14th through 16th centuries.  Does anyone
> have any good references, websites, or the like handy?
>
> - Doc

These should get you started.  Some of the more scholarly sites have
bibliographies you can chase.

Bear

The Worshipful Company of Bakers (London Baker's Guild)
http://www.bakers.co.uk/

York Baker's Guild account book
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/users/english/palwork/week19/palwk19.htm

Livery Companies of the City of London
http://www.wcsim.co.uk/page04.htm

Medieval Merchants (list)
http://web.archive.org/web/20021216012925/homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/ 
LND/Indexes/MEDMCHTS.txt

Immigrants in Early Tudor London
http://www.esh.ed.ac.uk/CEU/Velich.htm

Renaissance Guilds
http://www.twingroves.district96.k12.il.us/Renaissance/guildhall/ 
guilds/guildinfo.html

The Assizes of Bread, Beer and Lucrum Pistoris
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/breadbeer.html

Harvard Law on Assize of Bread
http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/collections/special/publications/ 
food/food1.php

Dublin Corn Market
http://indigo.ie/~kfinlay/Gilbert/gilbert7.htm


Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:33:23 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pretzels & bagels
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>>
This whole "malted water" thing has me fascinated.  I had many bagel
making discussions with a Hebrew chef.  He didn't add anything to the water,
nor have any of the recipes I have seen added stuff to the water.  He did
insist of refrigerating them for an hour before baking....

Samrah (who used to make a good batch of bagels and still makes a good bread)
<<<

IIRC, malted water appears in Bernard Clayton's book of French breads, so it
may be a French thing.  Having tried it, dropping the bagels into malted
water improves the flavor without being overpowering.  BTW, not all bagel
recipes call for the bagel to be dropped in boiling water.

Traditionally, the bagel was created by Austrian bakers to celebrate John
III Sobieski's raising of the Siege of Vienna (the same one that saw the
start of coffeehouses in Vienna) in 1683.  Unfortunately for tradition,
there are apparently regulations from Krakow in 1610 covering the bagel.
That there are no particular religious regulations attached to the bagel
suggest that it was a bread made by all manner of bakers and that the
"Jewish affinity" to the bagel is a latter phenomenon.

I'm still trying to locate a source for the baking regulations in Krakow.
They get mentioned in passing in various sources,  but copies of the actual
regulations seem to be elusive.

Bear


Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:05:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OOP: 17th century Frenc breadmaking
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The Fons Grewe website has an interesting text for those who read 
French.  The 1661 edition of "Les delices de la campagne" by Nicholas 
de Bonnefons has an entire chapter on making various kinds of bread.  
All of them begin with the mixing of a starter the night before, 
containing leaven plus one-sixth to one-quarter of the total flour.  
The common breads, containing a mixture of grains, are started at 6 or 
8 in the evening, to give them more rising time, whereas the sponge for 
an all-white wheat loaf is begun at 10.

I was amused to see that the tapping-on-the-bottom-for-a-hollow-sound 
test for doneness is at least 3 centuries old.
http://www.bib.ub.es/grewe/showbook.pl?gw015

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:47:15 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pantler knife/chaffer knife
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Anyway, in brief, the "chaffer knife" should probably be called "chopper".
> Which raises another issue: in my experience, smooth-edged knives don't
> work very well for slicing bread, which is why modern bread knives are
> serrated.  Has anybody seen evidence for a serrated knife in SCA period?
> I don't see any examples in the MoL book.
> -- 
>                                     John Elys

Smooth knives work just fine against a day old loaf that has been sitting in
the air.  Forget about trying to cut a loaf fresh from the oven or wrapped
in plastic and allowed to soften.  Serrated blades work better on softer
loaves and equally as well on artisan loaves which is why you find
serrations on most modern bread knives.

It should be remembered that a household baker was usually working a couple
days ahead of the household requirements so the bread was often a day old at
table.

There is an interesting illumination where one of the diner's is cutting
bread at the table.  The technique more closely resembles cutting a sentry's
throat than cutting bread.  Pantlers and carvers are depicted as being a
little more clever with their knives.

Bear


Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:53:53 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sweet bread or cake recipe also Mace
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Panettone in the recipe William describes probably gets its start in Milan
during the 15th Century.  It may derive from an earlier large loaf of bread
which was served during Christmas as early as the 10th Century.  Over the
centuries, the loaf became enriched and stuffed with fruit and nuts.  Modern
panetonne comes in both the mushroom shape and as a large slightly flattened
loaf (which probably the original shape).  As near as I can tell, it was a
commercial product from the start.

There is a similar fruit bread from Verona, pandoro.  The shape appears to
derive from a medieval Veronese Christmas cake, nadalin.  Nadalin appears to
have been a star shaped bread stuffed with fruit and possibly topped with
sugar.  A number of sources suggest that pandoro in its modern form is a
19th Century derivative of Viennese baking techniques applied to a
traditional form.

Modern recipes for panettone, pandoro and stollen are all heavy on the sugar
in the dough, which I think may be the Viennese influence.  Older forms of
enriched dough are closer to brioche, using fats and eggs, but not much
sugar.

As for English recipes, a lot of them use currants, but very few use almonds
and those that do use them as almond paste (a take off from simnels, I
assume).  If you choose to use one, you will probably need to modify the
recipe to use your currant and almond mix.

With the currant and almond mix you have, I think I would try the 
panforte

Bear

> The almonds and currants are mixed together and so not
> possible to turn into almond paste any more, but it might work as a
> base.  I will have to play with it, thank you.  Have you tried the
> proportions?
>
> William, the Pannettone sounds yummy, and related to the familiar (to
> me) Stollen, except for the shape.
>
> Gwen Cat


Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:19:37 -0500
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] PPC #77
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
	"mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>

Greetings!  The newest Petits Propos Culinaires (#77) arrived a few days
ago and there are several articles of interest to SCAdians.

The first is "Parisian Bread Circa 1654".  This includes a reprint of 
John
Evelyn's "Panificiuim" with the French text from "Les Delices de la
Campagne", by Nicolas Bonnefons.  Rubel, the article's author, indicates
that Evelyn made a few mistranslations but basically contains the French
text in English.  There's enough difference, apparently, that it might 
be
interesting for a SCAdian to work on the French and do a new 
translation.
The article points out a few of the similarities between English and 
French
breads, specifically Markham's "cheat bread", so one might use this as a
possible reference for slightly OOP breads.

<snip>

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:51:37 -0600
From "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yet another German Feast
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I have heard of bread being put out early, but was this eatin' bread or
> platen' bread? i.e....for trenchers? I know bread was served at all meals but 
> was it put out before
> for eating or was it just set out for when the food came?
>
> Geez....I'm beginning to sound like Stefan here.
>
> Gunthar

There are a couple of studies of 14th and 15th Century locales which place
bread (or more correctly, grain consumption primarily as bread) consumption
at an average of 2 and 1/2 pounds per person per day.  This is at atime
when the use of bread trenchers is falling off.  In beer and ale drinking
regions, add grain equivalent to a gallon of brew per person per day
average.

Many illustrations from the 11th through the 15th Centuries show loaves of
bread on the table, often obviously before the service of a course.  At
least one shows one of the people at the table slicing bread from a loaf.
Trenchers were cut before being brought to the table.

The idea that there wasn't much bread served at a meal is a statement by
someone who is either interested in seige dining or hasn't done their
homework.

Bear


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:15:29 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread consumption
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> The idea that there wasn't much bread served at a meal is a statement by
>> someone who is either interested in seige dining or hasn't done their
>> homework.
>>
>> Bear
>
> I'm not saying bread wasn't eaten. I was just wondering if
> it were used as an appetizer. I have also seen many instances
> of a small loaf of bread being the entire meal with a mug of
> ale or somesuch.
>
> Gunthar

Don't think of bread as an appetizer, think of it as the main course.  The
illustrations suggest that it was on the table from the beginning to the end
of the feast with the smaller plates of delicacies being presented to the
table over time.

A manchet and a mug of ale are breakfast fare and are sometimes served with
a small dish or fish or other meat.  When you are talking 2 1/2 pounds and a
gallon of brew per day, a manchet and mug are just a hair over 10 percent of
the daily fare.  When and where did they get the other 90 percent?

Bear


Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:27:37 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] LIIWEEK features a Medieval Bread FAQ
To: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>, "Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Hm.. take a look: (Review from Librarian's Index to the Internet (lii.org)
>
> [Medieval] Bread FAQ
> Answers to frequently asked questions about bread and medieval baking,
> including leavening, flours and other ingredients, recipes, and related
> topics. Includes a bibliography. From an enthusiast who bakes for
> medieval events.
> http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/breadfaq.html
> -- 
> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

It's Wulfric of Creigull's web site:
http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/

His research is solid and he knows whereof he speaks.

Bear


Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:29:05 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cakes
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Bear replied to me with:
>> A two penny loaf is a loaf that can be purchased for two pence.  Under the
>> Assize of Bread, the weight of the loaf varied by the market price of the
>> grain and the quality of the flour.  For example, in 1329 a two penny loaf
>> of white bread would have been 7 pounds 10 ounces a voirdupois.  It would
>> have been somewhat less in the latter half of the 17th Century when
>> Evelyn was cooking.
>
> A *seven* pound loaf of white bread??? That sounds like either an awfully
> large loaf or rather heavy bread. I just went and checked a fairly
> standard sized loaf of Dark whole Wheat bread, the only bread currently in
> my kitchen, and it is only one pound, 8 ounces. And I would expect  
> that to be a bit heavier than a *white* bread.
>
> Stefan

Large loaf.  Remember that the average per capita consumption of grain  
At the time was 2.5 pounds per day washed down by a gallon of malt  
beverage.

Under the Assize of Bread, the actual weight of the loaf was dependent  
On the cost of a quarter of wheat (8 Winchester bushels or 480 pounds).   
The higher the cost, the smaller the loaves by weight, the lower the cost  
The larger the loaves by weight.  The Assize of 1329 was based on a 6  
Shilling (72 pence) quarter.

Doing a little checking, I find that Jacobean and later recipes (which
covers Evelyn) used the convention in recipes of a "penny white loaf" being
a loaf of 6 to 8 ounces of the finest flour enriched with eggs and milk,
while an "ordinary penny loaf" is a loaf of slightly coarser flour of 12 to
16 ounces.  Evelyn's recipe is calling for 24 to 32 ounces of bread.

Bear


Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:32:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: question about breads
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Bear commented:
> Period breads don't use sugar.

I'd say that it all depends on which breads we are talking about.  
There are three recipes for Bread in the Libro Novo (translated by 
Master Basilius and redacted by Mistress Rachaol, she did a class at 
Pennsic last year).  There is the Twisted Bread of milk and sugar whose 
ingredients are: flour, leven, sugar, egg yolks, rose water, milk and 
salt.  Bagels of milk and sugar (Brazzatelli):flour, leven, sugar, 
eggs, rose water, butter, milk and salt.  And finally pine nut bread 
(Mantegate): flour, leven, pine nuts, rose water, egg yolks, sugar, 
butter and salt.  Admitedly these are fancy breads but in the 
introduction to the libro novo these are recipes that he says that no 
table should be without. I've made them, they are sweet but not overly 
so, very very rich though.

Helewyse


Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:48:09 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] question about breads
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

A teaspoon or so of sugar is used in modern bread recipes to boost the
activity of the yeast insuring a good rise.  It is completely unnecessary to
the process so commercial recipes tend not to include it.

In period, breads were most commonly leavened with ale barm or a sourdough
starter.  Neither requires the kick of additional sugar.  The recipes for
bread within and shortly after period call for flour, water, leaven and salt
and are enriched with eggs, fats, malt, etc.; not sugar.  An exception to
this is rastons (restons), which is a sweet, enriched bread served as we
would a dessert.  Judging from the way the recipes are written, the sugar in
rastons is being used as a sweetner rather than a yeast booster.  I also
suspect rastons may have been prepared by the cook rather than the baker.
Honey works well as sweetner but is not as effective as a yeast booster.

One of the reasons I am certain that sugar was not used in standard breads
in period is baker's profits were limited by law.  The law applied to all
bakers whether owners of a bakery or in the employ of a household.  To use
sugar when it was not called for, would cut into an already slim profit
margin.

Bear


Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:01:00 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: question about breads
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Nailed by absolutes.

Perhaps I should phrase this as, most breads prior to the 16th Century don't
use sugar and when it is used, the sugar is for modifying the taste (as in
Rastons) not boosting the leaven.  None of the breads mentioned in the
Assize of Bread (with the possible exception of simnel) would have contained
sugar and most traditional breads that would have been covered under this or
similar statutes use no sugar in the baking.  I am fairly certain that no
bread baked by the bakery and served from the pantry used sugar.

These recipes (of which I want both original and translation, please) from
Messisbugo's Libro Novo of 1557, are representative of what the CIA refers
to as fat doughs, highly enriched and flavored.  Almost all of these breads
in period appear to be of 16th Century origin, a time when cooks and bakers
experimented with new doughs, fruit stuffed breads, and new pastry
techniques.  While these recipes fall into SCA period, they represent 
the beginning of modern baking.

Bear

> Bear commented:
>> Period breads don't use sugar.
>
> I'd say that it all depends on which breads we are talking about.  There
> are three recipes for Bread in the Libro Novo (translated by Master
> Basilius and redacted by Mistress Rachaol, she did a class at Pennsic last
> year).  There is the Twisted Bread of milk and sugar whose ingredients
> are: flour, leven, sugar, egg yolks, rose water, milk and salt.  Bagels of
> milk and sugar (Brazzatelli):flour, leven, sugar, eggs, rose water,
> butter, milk and salt.  And finally pine nut bread (Mantegate): flour,
> leven, pine nuts, rose water, egg yolks, sugar, butter and salt.
> Admitedly these are fancy breads but in the introduction to the libro  novo
> these are recipes that he says that no table should be without. I've made
> them, they are sweet but not overly so, very very rich though.
>
> Helewyse


Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Three Italian seet breads
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Mistress Rachaol forwarded me the transcription/translation for the  
three sweet breads in question  She made the following comments:
The Libro is from 1549, a fine distinction, but necessary. Messisbugo  
died in 1548. The earliest menu mentioning the Bread of milk and sugar  
appears to be 1529. At this point, we are pushing the date of this  
particular rich bread back further.

Prima per Fare Cinquante Pani de Latte e Zuccaro di Oncie nove l’uno

Fatto Che haverai la tua Sconza, o levaturo, pigliarai di fiori di  
farina burattata libre 35. e tanto meno, quanto meno sara quella di che  
haverai fatt il levaturo, e libre 6.di zuccaro ben bianco, e Torli  
dUova 75 e libre 3 d’acqua rosata, e libre 6 di latte fresco, e oncie 6  
di butiro fresco, e impastarai il tuo Pane, avuertirai bene, chee  
l’acqua, o latte non scottasse, e farai anchor ache torl d’uovu sian  
caldetti, & li scalderai, ponondoli nell’acqua calda, e li porri, il  
conveniente sale, e farai la pasta, sic he non siane dura, ne tenera,  
ma pui tosto ch’habbia del saldetto, e la gramarai moto bene, e poi  
farai il tuo pane, e lo lasiaraben (?) levare, e lo cuocerai con  
grande ordine, si che non pigli troppo fuoco, ma che al tuo Giuditio  
stia bene, e questo pane e piu bell a farlo tondo, che intorto, o in  
pinzoni, sia dopoi piu grande, o piu picciolo, come tu vorrai: ti  
govererai adunque secondo questo modo, che e provato.


TO FIRST MAKE FIFTY BREADS OF MILK AND SUGAR OF NINE OUNCES EACH

             When you have made your sourdough or yeast, you shall take  
thirty-five pounds of the flower (i.e. the finest ground) of sifted  
wheat and a much less amount, so that it shall be enough to have made  
the yeast (starter), and six pounds of good white sugar, and seventy  
-five egg yolks, three pounds of rose water, and six pounds of fresh  
milk, and six ounces of fresh butter, and you shall knead your bread.

             You shall note well that the water or milk does not scorch,  
and you shall make certain that the egg yolks are to be warm, and you  
shall scald them, putting in the hot water.  And you shall put suitable 
salt, and you shall make the dough, so that it is neither hard nor  
tender, but harder than you shall have at firm.  And you shall knead it  
very well and then you shall make your bread, and you shall leave them  
to rise well, and you shall cook them with serious method so that they  
do not take too much fire, but that at your very good judgment.

             And this bread is more beautiful by making them round, that  
twist, or in buns.  Then they can be made larger or smaller, what ever  
you shall want.  You shall govern yourself to one according to this  
way, which is proven.

40 B


Brazzatelle di Latte, E Zuccaro

A fare 50 brazzatelle, di oncie4 l’una Pigilarai libre 15 di fiore di  
farina, d’acqua rosa oncie 3 di latte libre 3 e di Zuccar bianco libre  
2. Uova numero 25 di butiro oncie 4 e queste cose insieme grammerai  
molto bene. Poi farai le tue Brazzatelle, secondo l’ordine che si  
fanno, e le farai levare con diligenza, et dopoi che saranno levate,  
farai bogliere la tua acqua, ele getterai detro dette brazzatelle a  
cuocere, e come verrano si sopra le cavaraifuori, & lep orrai in acquae  
fresca, e quando d’iui le levarai le porrai a cuocere nel forno, e se  
vorrai porre anesi dentro, sera buona opera.


BAGELS OF MILK AND SUAR

             To make fifty bagels of four ounces each you shall take  
fifteen pounds of best flour, three ounces of rose water, three pounds  
of milk, two pounds of white sugar, twenty- five eggs, four ounces of  
butter, and you shall knead these things together very well.  Then you  
shall make your bagels according to the method that is done, and then  
you shall let rise with careful attention, and then when they are  
risen, you shall boil your water, and then you shall place inside the  
name bagels to cook, and when they come to the top you shall take them  
out, and then you shall put in fresh water, and when from there you  
shall have removed them you shall put them to cook in the oven, and if  
you shall want to put inside anise, it shall be a good deed.

43 C


A fare dieci Mantegate

Piglia di Pignuoli ben netti e mondi, libre una, e pestali ne mortaio,  
e ne farai come un latte, co oncie sei d’acqua rosata. Poi pigliarai  
libre tre di farina biancha e torli dieci d’uvoa, e libre unado  
Zucarro, e lib. Meza di butiro fresco, e di specie d’ogni sorte oncia  
una in tutto, e oncia una di levaturo, & un poco di sale, poi piglairai  
il latte li pignoli, e lo ponerai al suoco tanto che perda il freddo, e  
cosi impasterai ogni cosa insime, e non bastando l’Acqua rosa, gli  
aggiungerai altra acqua tanto che la pasta habbia del tenero, e la  
sbatterai sopra una tavola per spacio di due hore: & nella sbattere  
della pasta, gli andarai ponendo a poco a poco libre meza di Pinuoli  
mondi mmaccati. Poi pigliarai due Vasi, e le metterai detta pasta  
dentro, e la farai stare per due hora in loco coldo, poi batterai per  
spatio di meza altr’hora, & fatto questo la compartirai in dieci  
Mantegate overo Cresentine, come uvoi dire. Poi piglialibra mezza di  
Butiro disfatto, & ongi il fondo
  d’una Tiella grande, & pongliela dentro, & e ongi anchora esse di  
sopra, e poi ponle a cuocere nel forno, che non sia troppo caldo,  
perche vanno cotte sdagio, e cotto che saranno, li porrai sopralibra  
mezza di Zucarro fino fra tutte, & potria so anche fare senza specie

TO MAKE TEN CLOAK SHAPED PASTRIES

             Take a pound of pine nuts well cleaned and shelled, and  
pound them in a mortar, and with them you shall make a milk with six 
ounces of rose water.  Then you shall take three pounds of white flour  
and ten yolks of eggs, and a pound of sugar, and one-half pound of  
fresh butter, and spices of all kinds an ounce in all, and an ounce of  
yeast, and a small amount of salt.  The you shall take the milk of  
pine nuts, and you shall put it to the fire so much that it would warm  
it.  And so you will knead everything together, and (if there is) not  
enough of the rose water, you shall add other water, so much that the  
pastry would be tender, and you shall beat (or knead) over a table for  
the space of two hours.  And in the beating of the pastry, you shall  
proceed placing little by little a half-pound of shelled bruised pine  
nuts.

             Then you shall take two vessels and you shall place named  
pastry inside, and you shall make to stand for two hours in a warm  
place.  Then you shall beat for the space of another half-hour, and  
having done this you shall divide it in to ten cloak shaped (or shell  
shaped) or crescent shaped, whatever you want to do.

             Then take a half-pound of melted butter, and grease the  
bottom of a large tart pan, and put it inside, and also grease it on  
top, and then put it to cook in the oven that is not too hot, because  
tey are cooked slowly.

             And when they shall be cooked, you shall put over a  
half-pound of fine (ground) sugar between all of them, and you can also  
make without spices.


Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:08:25 +0200
From: agora at algonet.se
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pea Flour/Bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,

The bread made with chick pea and olive oil is has been eaten since early
ages in France, Italy, Spain and north Africa.

In Nice it's called "socca", but the original recipe comes from Liguria, Genua, since Nice was an Italian city, Nizza, until the last century. In Liguaria it's called "faina". It's also very spread in south America, where it come with the Italian immigrants in the end of the last century. In Morocco it's called "souza", is very easy to make, but it's too oily to eat it as a bread.

The dough should be very thin, it's only chick pea flour, olive oil and salt and
pepper.

Ana


Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:56:22 -0500
From: "Jeff Elder" <scholari at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: easy bread recipe?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Lonnie D. Harvel wrote:>
> Oh, and also, I think warm bread recently from the oven is magnificent.
> Would that have occured in any of the SCA periods? I get the impression
> the bread arrived sometime during the morning (or afternoon for large
> feasts) from the bakery or bake house.

Yeah warm from the oven is great, but was it not a common perception that
bread freshly baked was unhealthy?  Bad for the humors?

Poilâne insists that the peak flavor comes forth on the third day.

Simon Hondy


Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:28:42 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: easy bread recipe?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>
> Oh, and also, I think warm bread recently from the oven is magnificent.
> Would that have occured in any of the SCA periods? I get the impression
> the bread arrived sometime during the morning (or afternoon for large
> feasts) from the bakery or bake house.

Bakeries began work between midnight and two a.m. to have bread ready  
When the market opened, so you might get warm bread at a bakery.

A manor bakehouse produced bread in quantity for the pantry and would bake
bread for different purposes (trenchers, workmen's loaves, horsebread,
manchet, etc.) on different days, timing the batches to restock the pantry
stores.  You might get warm bread some days, but one or two day old loaves
(which are more easily cut and less wasteful in portioning) were probably
more common.

Bear


Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:52:49 +1200 (NZST)
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: easy bread recipe?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Quoting "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>:
> Oh, and also, I think warm bread recently from the oven is magnificent.
>
> Would that have occurred in any of the SCA periods? I get the impression
> the bread arrived sometime during the morning (or afternoon for large
> feasts) from the bakery or bake house.

Don't know, but I tend to find that it's impossible due to needing the ovens
for other things later in the day.  

Adele d'M


Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:07:18 -0500
From: "Simon Hondy" <scholari at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Was bread served warm?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> Yeah warm from the oven is great, but was it not a common
>> perception that
>> bread freshly baked was unhealthy?  Bad for the humors?
>
> Oh? I don't remember anyone mentioning this before. References?

"Bread should be well-baked in an oven and not used the same day, "
(whole few sentences below)

Let the baker be careful not to put in too much or too little leaven, for,
from the former, bread can acquire a sour taste, and, from the latter, it
can become too heavy to digest and too unhealthy, since it binds the bowels.
Bread should be well-baked in an oven and not used the same day, nor is it
especially nourishing when made from very fresh wheat and if it is digested
slowly."

De honesta voluptate, book I.14, Platina, Venice L. De Aguila, 1475
Source: Platina: On Right Pleasure and Good Health. Tempe: Medieval &
Renaissance Texts, 1998. ISBN 0-86698-208-6.

(from The Mad Baker's web site :
http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/breadfaq.html)

>> Poilâne insists that the peak flavor comes forth on the third day.
>
> Who was "Poilâne" and when and where did he live?

As Bear answered a Baker who owns and operates several bakeries in  
Paris, now, modern day.
http://www.poilane.fr/

My reference of his comes from Peter Reinhart's book "The Bread Baker's Apprentice"
Published by: Ten Speed Press, 2001  page 13 near the end of the third
paragraph.  And again as Bear pointed out, these are BIG 100% whole wheat
sourdough loaves, they weigh in at about 2 kilos, 4.4 pounds, I made a
couple that went to Pennsic, one made it to the Midrealm Laurels meeting, it
was right in at 1 kilo.  It was about 3 to 4 days old when it was displayed
and then eaten.

And yes smaller loaves go stale quicker.  I read through
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/trenchers-msg.html to get
trencher info, and winged it (wung it?) from there using the courser bits
from my flour I had sifted while making the whole wheat bread mentioned
above.  At about 1 pound loaves (dense and heavy they were) I was able to
get 4 good slabs of bread from each loaf, carved square.  take 4 and place
them in a square all together, then a 5th on top would make a very sturdy
nearly leak proof base from which to eat juicy meats.  Of course this only
matters if you have the meats cut up properly in bite sized pieces to
facilitate picking it up on knife point, to shake off the excess juices,
before plucking it with your fingers from knife point and into your  
mouth.

Making really good trenchers is a pain, but they are truly beautiful  
When [you] take the time to do so!

I chose to follow Reinhardt's recipe as from the Poilâne bakery.  Simple
flour water leavening and salt.  Using straight ground wheat "as it comes
from the miller"  with a little sieving to take out the remaining chaff,
little of the bran, and the chisel - the big chunks of grain.

Simon Hondy


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:40:58 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] French bread, was grilled Cuban sandwiches?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Some of the large whole wheat country loaves will last almost a week as long
as they are uncut.  Rye breads may last even longer.  They are high density
with a thick crust and they hold moisture.  I prefer most of them hot from
the oven, so they don't last as long as they could.

The light airy baguettes are best served within three or four hours.  The
baking process boils the moisture to get the well aerated interior, but it
reduces the shelf life as does the size and shape.  The batards are probably
those made with the same dough as the baguettes, but they last a little
longer because of the size.  Under the best of conditions, I expect these to
dry out in two days.  After four, I run them through the food processor to
make bread crumbs.

Bear

> Adamantius wrote:
>> It's yeasty-tasting and has a very short shelf life (unlike some of
>> the French breads that are at their best in the third or fourth day),
>
> OK, which French breads are these?
>
> My experience in Southern France was that the standard baguette or batard
> wasn't even good a few hours later. You bought it shortly before your
> meal. If you didn't eat it all, 4 hours later it was dry, hard, and
> inedible.
>
> So, i'm quite curious, which breads are good 4 days later?
> -- 
> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)


Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:31:10 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] hard French baguettes
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

One of the joys of a real French baguette (as opposed to a fairly dense
bread in a baguette shape) is the crust is thin and crisp and the inside is
very light with lots of air hole in the crumb.  If you store bread in a
plastic bag the interior moisture softens the crust.  The plastic bag with
holes reduces direct contact to the air, but lets the moisture in the bag
escape, keeping the crust crisp.

Bear

> They also come in special plastic bags perforated with thousands of  tiny
> holes, which probably increases their rate of drying out. I  don't see
> this special plastic bag on most other breads. What's the  purpose  
> of the special bag?
>
> Stefan


Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:49:47 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] how to make bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I am new to the list and fairly new to the SCA.  I was looking for ways to
> make bread at camp.  Can anybody help me? I have a propane stove and a
> Colman type oven.
> Thanks

I have no experience with using either of those
things. But there are several period frying pan
breads, which can be made without an oven.

This one is 16th c. Mughal--northern India

Bread
Ain i Akbari

There is a large kind, baked in an oven, made of
10 s. flour; 5 s. milk; 1 1/2 s. ghi; 1/4 s.
salt. They make also smaller ones. The thin kind
is baked on an iron plate. One ser will give
fifteen, or even more. There are various ways of
making it; one kind is called chapati, which is
sometimes made of khushka; it tastes very well
when served hot. [see p. 6 for units]

1 lb = 3 1/2 c flour	2.4 oz ghee (clarified butter) = 3/8-1/2 c
1/2 lb = 1 c milk	.4 oz salt = 1/2 T

Melt the ghee, stir it into the flour with a fork
until there are only very small lumps. Stir in
the milk until thoroughly mixed, knead briefly.
Put the ball of dough in a bowl covered by a damp
cloth and leave for at least an hour. Then knead
the dough until it is smooth and elastic, adding
a little extra flour if necessary. Either:

Take a ball of dough about 2" in diameter, roll
it out to about a 5" diameter circle. Cook it in
a hot frying pan without grease. After about 2
minutes it should start to puff up a little in
places. Turn it. Cook another 2 minutes. Turn it.
Cook another 2 minutes. It should be done. The
recipe should make about 11 of these. Or ...

Take a ball of dough about 3" in diameter. Roll
it down to a circle about 7" in diameter and 1/4"
thick. Heat a baking sheet in a 450° oven. Put
the circle of dough on it in the oven. Bake about
6 minutes; it should be puffing up. Turn it over.
Bake about 4 minutes more. Take it out. The
recipe should make about 5 of these.

And here is my conjectural reconstruction of the
oat cakes that Froissart describes:

Scottish Oat Cakes: A Conjectural Reconstruction

"the only things they take with them [when riding
to war] are a large flat stone placed between the
saddle and the saddle-cloth and a bag of oatmeal
strapped behind. When they have lived so long on
half-cooked meat that their stomachs feel weak
and hollow, they lay these stones on a fire and,
mixing a little of their oatmeal with water, they
sprinkle the thin paste on the hot stone and make
a small cake, rather like a wafer, which they eat
to help their digestion." (Froissart's
Chronicles, Penguin Books translation.)

So far as I know, there are no surviving period
recipes for oat cakes. This article is an attempt
to reconstruct them, mainly on the basis of
Froissart's brief comment.

Rolled oats--what we today call "oatmeal"--are a
modern invention. I assume that "oat meal" in the
middle ages meant the same thing as "meal" in
other contexts--a coarse flour. The only other
ingredient mentioned is water, but salt is
frequently omitted in medieval recipes--Platina,
for instance, explicitly says that he doesn't
bother to mention it--so I have felt free to
include it. The oat cakes Froissart describes are
field rations, so unlikely to contain any
perishable ingredients such as butter or lard,
although they may possibly have been used in
other contexts.

Consistent with these comments, the following is
my conjectural recipe for oatcakes as they might
have been made by Scottish troopers c. 1400:

1/2 c "Scottish Oatmeal" -- coarsely ground whole
oats.	1/4 c water	1/4 t salt

Put the oatmeal in a spice grinder and process
for about 20 seconds, producing something
intermediate between what you started with and
bread flour. Add salt and water and let the
mixture stand for about fifteen minutes. Make
flat cakes 1/4" to 3/8" in thickness, cook on a
medium hot griddle, without oil, about 3-5
minutes.

The result is a reasonably tasty flat bread. In
scaling the recipe up for a meal or a feast, you
would want to experiment with grinding whole oats
into meal or find a finer (and less expensive)
oatmeal than the gourmet product, intended for
making porridge, that I was using.

Hope those help. I also have a couple of frying
pan pastry recipes that I am fond of--both
Islamic.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 08:38:30 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th-century bread (was Re: Favorite Frugal
	Pennsic	Meals)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I haven't come across this before, but I can think of three possible
explanations of the term and I have empirical knowledge of each.

My first thought is this could be "peggy tubby" bread, where the dough is
allowed to rise immersed in water.  The technique is believed to date to the
1st Century BCE, but the evidence is fairly murky.

Otherwise, this may be a loaf cooked in a manner similar to simnel where a
yeast bread is cooked by boiling or parboiling and baking (think water
bagel).  This is not likely to actually be simnel which is an enriched (and
sometimes filled) bread seated in a hard dough pie shell, as it would not
likely be in the regular diet of a strict monastic order.

Bear

> What is this 12th-century "bread cooked in water," and from what source is
> this reference taken?  I'm in the process of collecting 12th-13th century
> European recipes and redacting them, so I would really like to know.
>
> Lady Cecilia de Cambrige
>
>> I screw up -  you could also make a pudding-style levened dumpling. I believe
>> that is what the twelfth-century 'bread cooked in water' may describe,
>> though steamed or parboiled are also possible explanations.
>>
>> Giano


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:14:59 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th-century bread (was Re: Favorite Frugal
	Pennsic	Meals)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Am Dienstag, 6. Juni 2006 15:38 schrieb Terry Decker:
> I haven't come across this before, but I can think of three possible
> explanations of the term and I have empirical knowledge of each.
>
> My first thought is this could be "peggy tubby" bread, where the dough is
> allowed to rise immersed in water.  The technique is believed to date to
> the 1st Century BCE, but the evidence is fairly murky.
>
> Otherwise, this may be a loaf cooked in a manner similar to simnel where a
> yeast bread is cooked by boiling or parboiling and baking (think water
> bagel).  This is not likely to actually be simnel which is an enriched (and
> sometimes filled) bread seated in a hard dough pie shell, as it would not
> likely be in the regular diet of a strict monastic order.

The actual term is panis qui coquitur in aqua. That indicates that a part of
the cooking process took place in or under water rather than just the
raising, but I am not able to say whether we are talking boiled, parboiled or
steamed bread. I've tried all three with your basic sourdough wholemeal spelt
loaf and they worked. My personal favourite was the parboiled one because it
developed a lovely crunchy crust and soft interior, but given the medieval
love for soft foods, it may well have been the others. Both turned out soft
and chewy, the steamed one being fluffier and spongier than the boiled one.

Giano


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:20:29 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th-century bread (was Re: Favorite Frugal
	PennsicMeals)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Am Mittwoch, 7. Juni 2006 14:43 schrieb Terry Decker:
> How did you do the steaming?

In a metal basket over boiling water. In period they'd more probably have
used a cloth or basket, but this one came with my pot set.

I also forgot to check that the moisture runs off - it collected at one point
and drip-drip-dripped a 'hole' into the loaf.

Giano


Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:26:01 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th-century bread (was Re: Favorite
	FrugalPennsicMeals)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

When I went chasing simnels, I found that the Greeks had used sealed
terracotta pots in boiling water to induce internal steaming.  You break the
pot to get the cooked bread out.  It is obviously a precursor to the
Victorian pudding tin.  I wonder if a similar method may not have been used
in period.

Markham used pigs intestine to encase puddings to be steamed in boiling
water and the pudding cloth, which turns up late in period is used to cook
food both in the boiling water and hanging in the steam.  I think wrapping
up dough and dropping it in boiling water may have been more common than
trying to cook with direct steam.  It is an interesting experiment, so
thanks for sharing.

Bear

> In a metal basket over boiling water. In period they'd more probably have
> used a cloth or basket, but this one came with my pot set.
>
> I also forgot to check that the moisture runs off - it collected at one
> point and drip-drip-dripped a 'hole' into the loaf.
>
> Giano


Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:50:46 -0500
From: "Daniel  Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grains
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Check out Six Thousand Years of Bread; Its Holy and Unholy History by H.E.
Jacob ISBN1-55821-575-1.  You might also take a look at the 16th century
book "A Description Of England"  Can't remember the author or where I put my
copy but you can find it on line.  It has a several page discourse on  
bread.

Daniel


Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:29:10 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 6000 Years of Bread was Fermentation Sponge
	Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> What do you all think of "Six Thousand Years of Bread: Its  Holy  
> and Unholy History" by H.E Jacobs. ?
>
> Aldyth

It's considered to be one of the classic volumes. I find it a bit disjointed
which is quite understandable as the writing of the book was interrupted by the author's stays in Dachau and Buchenwald before he and his wife managed to emigrate to the United States. (His wife managed to hide the manuscript from the
Nazis who had already banned his other books.) The book was finished in the States with research at the NY Public Library. The major problem is that the text came out originally in 1944, so it of course doesn't include the past 60 years of research. There have been a number of studies and research done, especially on breads, grains, milling, etc and the medieval period. The book doesn't reflect any of those. However for 16.95 it's a good buy and good value.

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:22:18 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fermentation Sponge Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> What do you all think of "Six Thousand Years of Bread: Its  Holy  
> and Unholy History" by H.E Jacobs. ?
>
> Aldyth

It's a fascinating book, but there's definitely a bias in it related to
handwork and bread quality. Basically what you would expect from a male
academic in 1940-- handmade bread is icky because people are touching it
and sweating and so on, and the primary goal of all society and all
people is to avoid physical labor because that's icky too.
Interestingly enough, I don't think he gives details about kneading
troughs and other large-scale bread kneading gadgets.

-- Jadwiga


Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:00:07 -0400
From: silverr0se at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fermentation Sponge Question
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Great Book! I got a lot of good background info on bread from this  
one, more than I got from Elizabeth David's, although hers has recipes.

Renata

> What do you all think of "Six Thousand Years of Bread: Its  Holy and  
> Unholy History" by H.E Jacobs. ?
>
> Aldyth


Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:16:50 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fermentation Sponge Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Aldyth at aol.com

Since you doing this as a research project you might want to
check out Artisan Baking Across America by Glezer. Pages 102-103
of the original hardback 2000 edition goes extensively into "pre-ferments"
and their use in artisan baking. Jeffery Hamelman also discusses them in
Bread. A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes.

Johnnae llyn Lewis
>> Does anyone have experience in whether starting the sponge with certain
>> kinds of flour determine what kind of sponge it will ultimately become?
>> For example using a lower gluten flour versus a higher gluten flour.
>> Aldyth


Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:27:32 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Barley Bread
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Here are some barley bread recipes.  The unleavened pan cakes are probably
closer to the Medieval baking than the leavened bread with the mixed flours.
If you want rustic or rye recipes, there are several in the Florilegium that
I've used over the years.

Bear

Barley Bread

3 cups wheat flour
3/4 cup barley flour
1 tsp dry active yeast
1 Tbsp salt
1 1/2 cups water
2-3 Tbsp buttermilk, cream, or whole milk

Mix the wheat flour, barley flour, and salt.
Dissolve the yeast in the water and let proof.
Add the milk to the liquor.
Add the flour mixture to the liquor slowly stirring it in.
Knead and shape.
Bake in 400 degree F oven for 40 minutes or until done.

Notes:
The crumb may develop a light gray color.
The longer the baking time, the greater the probability of the loaf  
being too dry.

Baking in a 1 lb tin is recommended.

Based on David, E., English Bread and Yeast Cookery, 1980


Thick Welsh Barley Cakes

Take fine barley meal and make into a stiff dough with skim milk; roll out
to the size of a small bakestone, about three quarters of an inch thick, and
bake.

It is eaten with cold butter.

Lady Llanover, Good Cookery, 1867


Thin Welsh Barley Cakes

Mix fine barley meal and milk together to the consistency of batter, and
pour slowly on a bakestone out of a jug until it has formed a circle the
size of a small plate, then let it bake slowly. It ought to be very thin,
but soft, like a pancake or a pikelate; it is likewise eaten with cold
butter.

Lady Llanover, Good Cookery, 1867


Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:40:16 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Breads in Medieval Society website
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	"mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>

I came across this website this am on Breads in Medieval Society

http://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/lesson/food/dailybread.html

Johnna


Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:02:14 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wedding bread
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Wedding bread of one sort or another was common in Medieval Europe.  In
Britain and the United States, it has been replaced by the wedding cake.
Wedding breads can be anything from small buns to large ornately  
decorated loaves depending on the culture and use.

My opinion is that the general European custom derives from the Greek
worship of Demeter as the goddess of fertility with ripe grain and small
breads shaped like genitalia and breasts.  The shape changed for a  
Christian world, but the connection to fertility remained.

While I haven't read it; Charsley, Simon R., Wedding Cakes and Cultural
History, London; Routledge, 1992, is considered an exellent reference  
on the subject.

Bear

> I have been looking for examples of wedding  bread.  It seems that it is
> common for those of Greek descent, and some Jewish ceremonies.  Most of
> what I have found is central European concentrating on the Balkan   
> communities. Is there evidence of this in period?
>
> I have pictures of what is listed as traditional Hungarian from The History
> of Bread by Dupaiagne.
>
> Aldyth


Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:12:41 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wedding bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

What do you want exactly?
Medieval recipes? References? Artworks? Which country?
Time period? Wedding customs? Folklore Associations?
Just curious? Food and the Rites of Passage
talks about "the wedding cake, which has slowly but surely evolved from
the giant flat discs of bride cake illustrated in the sensational
full-colour cover of a f?te in Bermondsey by Hoefnagel in the
seventeenth century, to the many-tiered and icing-bedaubed monuments of
today."
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/lane/kal69/shop/pages/isbn17x.htm

The artwork is mentioned here
http://www.answers.com/topic/joris-hoefnagel
http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=85097&c=&search=Joris 
+Hoefnagel

Johnnae

Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
> I have been looking for examples of wedding  bread.  
> Aldyth


Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:21:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Wedding bread
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Charsley isn't bad(there are some amusing bibliographic errors
where he confuses some of the 17th century titles with other works
by other authors) but he really doesn't get into the medieval bread then
into cakes thing that would be helpful. He's much better on 18th-19th century material.

  Luard's Sacred Food might be more helpful,
depending on if what you want is the traditional and folklore aspects.

Johnnae

Terry Decker wrote:
> While I haven't read it; Charsley, Simon R., Wedding Cakes and Cultural
> History, London; Routledge, 1992, is considered an excellent  
> reference on the subject.
>
> Bear


Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:25:05 -0500
From: "Lisa Sawyer" <ysabeau.lists at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Review - WAS: Bread Labor
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I've been meaning to post about this book I found that is really
fascinating. While this isn't exactly answering your question, it does
contain some interesting information about cooking.

http://www.amazon.com/Mistress-Maids-Men-Baronial-Thirteenth/dp/ 
1842124994/ref=sr_1_1/002-4721091-8879261? 
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193843098&sr=8-1

The book is based on the daily accounts of the Countess of Leicester (Simon
De Montfort's wife). There are comparisons to the daily accounts of other
notables in the 13th century to determine if her accounts are common or
uncommon.

The part that pertains to bread was very interesting to me. It goes into the
prices of wheat, how the wheat was obtained by a large household and from
whom. Apparently, they had figured out exactly how many loaves of bread
could be baked from a set amount of wheat. They didn't use bushels but I'll
use that as an example. The amount of loaves from a bushel was a standard
that was used almost universally. They had standards for other products as
well.

The accountant would record that he gave the cook so many bushels of wheat
on a particular day. The cook had to report back how many loaves of bread
s/he baked from the wheat. This implies that they ground the wheat in-house
and then baked the loaves. It doesn't say what the turnaround time was. If
there was a discrepancy between the amount of wheat given to the cook and
the loaves of bread returned, then they had to be accounted for (such as a
percentage of the wheat was moldy or something).

The book is fascinating with the little details. It isn't an overview...it
is a lot of little details. Sometimes, I wish it had more details but I
could see how that could bog things down considerably. It is a fairly easy
read as is. They give the prices for comparison purposes which is also
fascinating. The accounts also can give an indication of how the spices
where used...if you could see a specific page which the book unfortunately
does not do...At the top of the page it indicates how many people were in
the household on that particular day as well as all the pantry items
consumed. While you don't have a menu, you can sort of guess based on the
spices consumed how spiced the food actually was.

One of the interesting details was the fact that leather was purchased to
create something for the Countess that they think resembled chaps. It is
guessed that the leather garment was created to protect the Countess' legs
because she liked to ride astride instead of side saddle. The entry includes
the cost of the hide, how much the tailor was paid, etc.

One of the other interesting details fresh in my mind was that the Countess
borrowed a carriage from someone else for [a] trip. She paid the driver 5s each
way. According to the book, this was a high amount because the carriage
required five horses to pull it.

Anyway, I'm over 3/4 through on my first reading and I'm fascinated by the
little details. None of the items are terribly new or shocking for most of
us, but they are interesting when put into perspective as they are in this
book. The one thing I need for the next pass is a clear understanding of the
monetary system...I understand the references to pounds, d, and s enough to
get a comparative idea but I would like to know how many s go into a d, how
many d go into a pound, etc.

In Service,
Ysabeau of Prague
Barony of Bryn Gwlad
Ansteorra


Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:49:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Labor
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> And certainly on in remote areas, small holdings and in earlier times, it might
> have been common for a family to raise grain, mill it at home and then bake it
> on  bakestone or under the ashes in some fashion (lacking the larger
> bakeovens), but was this practice that generally common by
> the 14th-16th centuries? I note your source is for 1100-1300. Does this
> source apply to larger households and estates?

Actually, because of the different laws relating to mills, it may be more
likely for a large estate to have the grain milled at home than for a
small one-- smallholdings generally were *required* to bring their grain
to the miller who held the concession for the area from the law, whereas
large holdings might have a mill on their own land, or be the miller's
landlord. I'm away from my sources, but by the 14th century requiring
tenants to use the lord's mill and pay the miller a portion of the grain
was the norm, according to the books I read.
-- 
-- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 01:34:42 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Labor
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The question as presented is incomplete in that it does not differentiate
between common and commercial baking.  A commercial baker wouldn't muck with
five pounds of flour.  Since I've read the other messages in the thread, I
understand that you are looking for effort involved in each step.

How large an area are you trying to prepare?  Do you have a stick, a plow
pulled by people or a plow pulled by oxen?  Simple plow or mould board?
What kind of soil?  How many people are involved?  I would think that
preparing the soil on five acres would take one to three days with a plow,
possibly a little more if you spread and plow in dung for fertilizer.  A day
for the sowing and a few more man days for irrigation and weeding over the
next few months.

A critical issue is the yield per bushel of seed.  Yields varied between 1
1/2 to 1 to around 10 to 1.  The lower the yield, the more acres needed to
be cultivated.

Harvesting five acres by hand -- 4 to 8 man-days.  Threshing -- 2 to  
4 man days.

Milling -- 1 to 2 man days.  You will lose 15 to 20 percent of the grain (by
weight) to chisel leaving 55 to 60 pounds of flour from a 70 pound bushel.
For hand querns, the overall time is more of a problem to calculate.  Where
peasants and manors might grow the grain and have it milled, commercial
bakers would buy grain and have it milled.  London bakers particularly liked
to purchase foreign bushels weighing more than 70 pounds, because it
produced more profit.

Firewood for the ovens -- 1 or 2 man days for one day's firing.

Preparation time for the dough -- 30 minutes to 2 man hours, depending on
quantity.

Kneading -- 5 pounds, 10-15 minutes by hand, 100 pounds, 20 to 30 minutes
with a brake (a heavy log with one end affixed to the wall above the
kneading table in period; modern brakes are power roller systems or Hobarts
with dough hooks).

First rise -- overnight.

Firing the ovens -- 1 to 2 hours.

Shaping  -- five minutes to 2 hours.

Second rise -- open question as to whether it was done.

Clean and load oven -- 10 minutes.

Baking -- 1 hour.

Now for some caveats.  We have no idea how much bread was baked at one time
in a simple home.  A grand manor would produce approximately 2 pounds of
bread per person per day plus as much as 1 to 2 pounds of trencher bread per
person per day.  For persons of comfortable but lesser means, trencher bread
was only for special occasion (reference Menagier).  Grand manors hired
commercial bakers, who were paid the same as other guild bakers.  I did some
simple calculations based on the combined households of the lord and lady of
one of the grand families (ala Woolgar) that the baker was preparing the
equivalent of 500+ pounds of bread per day.  In that case, the baker was
sent ahead of the travelers by three to four days to prepare an initial
stock of bread at the manor.

The commercial baker was permitted three servants and two boys for staff
under the Lucrum Pistoris.  He was required to give loaves of full measure
as directed under the Assize of Bread.  For the great households, the bakery
and its staff were entirely seperate from the kitchen.  The kitchen staff
far outnumbers the bakers.

Without assistance, I have prepared 120 pounds of bread and 160 pastries
(and one batch of cinnamon rolls for the baker and friends) in around 16
hours of labor using roughly the above baking schedule.  If I'd had a 20
gallon Hobart rather than a 20 quart Hobart, I could have cut the time to
about 10 hours.  I would say that a trained staff of five could crank out
500 pounds of bread in about 14-16 hours if they had enough oven space.

Bear

> My cooks guild has been having an interesting discussion regarding the
> physical labor of making bread.  What it mostly boils down to is how long
> in period it might have taken to make a loaf of bread.  

> Aldyth


Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 22:03:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Review - WAS: Bread Labor
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> The part that pertains to bread was very interesting to me. It goes into the
> prices of wheat, how the wheat was obtained by a large household and from
> whom. Apparently, they had figured out exactly how many loaves of bread
> could be baked from a set amount of wheat. They didn't use bushels but I'll
> use that as an example. The amount of loaves from a bushel was a standard
> that was used almost universally. They had standards for other  
> products as well.

Wheat was commonly purchased by the quarter, which is eight bushels.

For a great household in England, the baker was a specialist that had to
meet the requirements of the Assize of Bread, which specified loaf weight
dependent upon the price of a quarter of wheat.  The number of loaves baked
from a quarter of wheat is a function of the price of the wheat.  The
standard was universal in England because it was the law.  Other regulations
covered other products, which may cause the standardization you are  
seeing.

> The accountant would record that he gave the cook so many bushels of wheat
> on a particular day. The cook had to report back how many loaves of bread
> s/he baked from the wheat. This implies that they ground the wheat in-house
> and then baked the loaves. It doesn't say what the turnaround time was. If
> there was a discrepancy between the amount of wheat given to the cook and
> the loaves of bread returned, then they had to be accounted for (such as a
> percentage of the wheat was moldy or something).

The baker is a professional seperate from the cook.  The baker and  
the cook report independently.

Under the Assize, the baker has the bran as part of his profit, so it may be
that seeing to the milling was part of the baker's obligation and not
necessarily internal to the household or the milling may be done at the
manor's mill.

You will find that any and all supplies issued from the Wardrobe were
constantly accounted for.  For example, foodstuffs for the kitchen were
accounted for as served portions when received at the bar (usually by the
butler or equivalent).  Discrepencies were noted and needed to be  
accounted for.

> Anyway, I'm over 3/4 through on my first reading and I'm fascinated by the
> little details. None of the items are terribly new or shocking for most of
> us, but they are interesting when put into perspective as they are in this
> book. The one thing I need for the next pass is a clear understanding of the
> monetary system...I understand the references to pounds, d, and s enough to
> get a comparative idea but I would like to know how many s go into a d,
> how many d go into a pound, etc.
>
> Ysabeau of Prague
> Barony of Bryn Gwlad
> Ansteorra

One pound sterling (12 troy or tower ounces of silver) equals 20 shillings
(s.) equals 240 pence (d.).  There is a slight weight difference between
Tower and Troy pounds.  The Tower pound was the English standard from 760 to
1526, when it was replaced by the Troy pound.

Sounds like an interesting book.

Bear


Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:52:40 -0500
From: euriol <euriol at ptd.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a Bread recipes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I found a Byzantine Bread recipe that I need to rework my redaction  
on. The information can be found at

http://medievalcuisine.madpage.com/recipes/recipes/artos_katharos.html

I would not put in the caraway seeds, and I'm looking for a good source of
mastic. But I'm certain the anise and fennel would be a nice combination (I
just didn't have any one hand when I first attempted the recipe).

I would also recommend Master Wulfric's website at

http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/

Euriol


Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:09:15 +0100 (CET)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anise and Bread - Pliny Re: The benefits of
	Anise
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I found another reference for a bread recipe with
anise in the bread...
I only have an english translation:

Translation: by Andrew Dalby
White Bread. Bread made from wheat is the best and most nutritious of all foods. Particularly if white, with a moderate use of yeast and salt, the dough kneaded midway between dryness and rawness, and with a little anise, fennel seed and mastic, it is very fine indeed. One with a hot constitution should include sesame in the dough. If wishing to add more moistness to the bread, knead in some almond oil.
-Dalby, Andrew, Flavours of Byzantium, Great Britain: Prospect Books, 2003

I have yet to find a transliteration of the original recipe. I tried this the first time with caraway, because I didn't have anise or fennel in my cabinet and I just wanted to give a try. I found the caraway too strong a flavor against the use of the white flour. I had not had come across a recipe before for mastic either, and after my first time trying this recipe looked for a source. 

Now I have some mastic, is it supposed to be ground to
a powder or possibly dissolved in something? I've never used this
ingredient before. But, I do look forward to playing with this recipe more.
______________________________________________________

I've worked with this and found that I liked it best
with a very gentle hand on the caraway and the
fennelseed dominant. You can put in whole fennelseeds
or grind them - I like the rustic appeal of whole
seends, but I suspect the Byzantines preferred them
ground.

Mastic can be had in lumps much like gum arabic or
powdered. Art supply shops alsao sometimes sell it in
little granules. I prefer to get mine in lumps because
I can thus be reasonably sure it hasn't been
adulterated, but pre-ground is more practical for
cooking (I use mine as chewing gum sometimes, too).

Be prepared to pay through your nose. Mastic has
gotten quite pricy - I think it's the Mediterranean
cooking craze and a fad for traditional materials in
art (I've only once used mastic in my art and wasn't
impressed).

Giano


Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:33:09 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anise and Bread - Pliny Re:  The benefits of
	Anise
To: euriol at ptd.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I pulled Andrew Dalby's  Flavours of Byzantium off the shelf here
last night and looked up this recipe. His translated version appears on
page 180.

The source of the original recipe is given as "De Cibis 2."

De Cibis is described by Dalby on page 48 as being "a manuscript
compilation...
addressed to a seventh century emperor, presumably by a court  
physician."

Looking in the bibliography, De Cibis is given as being edited by
Ideler. 1841-1842.

Going back to page 127, it turns out that a scholar named Ideler edited
a collection of various texts in the early 1840's. These were published
in Greek in Berlin.
This collection includes De Cibis.

Dalby notes that this collection is now available as part of the TLG
CD-ROM set that is published by the University of California at Irvine.

So what is this TLG set? TLC stands for Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. It's
described at
http://www.tlg.uci.edu/
I can tell you that various academic libraries offer access to the texts
now through the TLG database, so
if you read Greek you should be able to locate the text in the database.
I looked and it appears to be there.
*To view the texts in Greek, a Greek font has to be installed on your
computer.*

Johnnae llyn Lewis

euriol wrote:
> I found another reference for a bread recipe with anise in the  
> bread... I only have an english translation:
>
> Translation: by Andrew Dalby
> White Bread Bread made from wheat is the best and most nutritious of all
> foods. Particularly if white, with a moderate use of yeast and salt, the
> dough kneaded midway between dryness and rawness, and with a little anise,
> fennel seed and mastic, it is very fine indeed. One with a hot constitution
> should include sesame in the dough. If wishing to add more moistness to the
> bread, knead in some almond oil.
> -Dalby, Andrew, Flavours of Byzantium, Great Britain: Prospect  
> Books, 2003
>
> I have yet to find a transliteration of the original recipe.  
> snipped   Euriol


Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forthcoming titles Fall 2008 LONG
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

As promised sometime back here's a list of some forthcoming
fall 08- winter 09
titles that might be of interest to readers of this list.
They cover a full range of topics.
I've included details, descriptions or links where I have them.
A number of the lists I used didn't record prices possibly because
they were not yet set.

Johnnae

-----------------
*Bread: A Slice Of History (Paperback) by John Marchant
and Bryan Reuben and Joan P. Alcock
240 pages. Tempus Publishing Ltd//The History Press(Oct 2008 in the UK
and out in the USA
as of January 2009)authoritative overview of the most important of
foodstuffs.


Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:03:06 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Origins of kesra and khobz
To: "Christiane" <christianetrue at earthlink.net>,	"Cooks within the
	SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

If you look in the Anonymous Andalusian cookbook, you'll find recipes for 
Qursa and Khubaiz.  I am given to understand that the words refer to small 
loaves of bread.  Modernly, ksra refers to a small loaf of raised bread 
while khobz may be leavened or unleavened.  While most modern recipes call 
for yeast, a sourdough leaven would likely be more correct prior to the 
late-19th or early-20th Centuries.  The Khubaiz of the Anonymous Andalusian 
cookbook is closer to the Khobz Tunisian, an Algerian dessert bread, than to 
the leavened khobz recipes.

Bear

<<< I was bumming around the Interwebz and came across a couple of recipes for 
kesra (a once-risen Moroccan yeast bread sprinkled with sesame seeds) and 
khobz (a once-risen bread from Algeria, sometimes sprinkled with sesame 
seeds).

Any ideas as to the origins of these breads? It's very similar to Sicilian 
pane riminciato. Chef Farim Zadi had mentioned in one of postings on 
eGullet (where he was having an interesting discussion with Clifford 
Wright) between the similarity between the two breads and the Sicilian 
one.

Gianotta (soon to be Adelisa di Salerno) >>>


Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:15:35 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period raisin bread?

Closest I found in medievalcookery.com is this cake made with bread  
and raisins:

This is an excerpt from Das Kochbuch des Meisters Eberhard
(Germany, 15th century - Giano Balestriere, trans.)
The original source can be found at Mark S. Harris' Florilegium

If you want to make a good cake out of eggs. Take eggs, as many as you  
want, beat them well and cut into it five lot [a unit of weight  
differing widely by region] of fine white bread. Put raisins into the  
batter. Heat lard in a pan, so that it is enough, and pour the egg  
into that and let it bake inside and out. With that lay it on a board  
and  chop some spices onto it, cut it into slices and serve it.

Wiltu machen gut kuchenn vonn eyerrn. So nym eyer, wie vil du wilt,  
vnd zu slach die wol vnd schneid semel funf lot dar vnter vnd thue dar  
ein weinperr vnd schmalcz in ein pfannen, des genug sej, vnd geu? die  
eyer dar ein vnd la? es packenn ynnenn vnd aussenn. Do mit slach es  
auff ein panck vnd hack dar vnter gut wurcz vnd schneid es zu  
scheubenn vnd richt es an.
-----
Searched under bread and raisins in EEBO-TCP and came up with things  
like grated bread and raisins in a number of medical recipes and a few  
others like this one but no "raisin breads".

To make Fritters.

To make Fritters another way, take Flower, milke, Barme, grated Bread,  
smal Raisins, Cinamon, Suger, Cloues, Mace, Pepper, Saffron, and Salt;  
stirre all these together very wel with a strong spoone, or smal  
Ladle; then let it stand more then a quarter of an houre that it may  
rise, then beate it in againe, and thus let it rise & be beate in,  
twice or thrice at least then take it and bake them in sweete and  
strong seame, as hath beene before shewed, and when they are serued vp  
to the table, see you strow vpon them good store of Suger, Cynamon,  
and Ginger.

from The English house-vvife. 1631 edition

Johnnae

On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:52 PM, David Friedman wrote:
<<< The chief cook for a local event likes my sourdough raisin bread,  
and wants me to do some for the event. Does anyone here know of any  
period references to raisin bread? Pictures?
-- 
David/Cariadoc >>>


Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:11:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period raisin bread?

--- David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> schrieb am Fr, 22.10.2010:
<<< The chief cook for a local event
likes my sourdough raisin bread, and wants me to do some for
the event. Does anyone here know of any period references to
raisin bread? Pictures? >>>

Not bread, strictly speaking, but Marx Rumpoldt has a recipe for a yeast cake that includes raisins. It's probably what we'd call a bread these days. He advises the reader that the dough can be baked in the shape of a cookpot (you bake it in a clay pot and break it afterwards). There's also a recipe for raisin fritters. 

I have a transcription lying around somewhere, but I think it's also in the online Rumpoldt. 

Giano


Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:06:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Scappi

<<< Does Scappi have a recipe called panettone?
De >>>

No, 
but there is this recipe for panforte which bears a lot of resemblance to 
panettone, taken from "Del compendio de secreti rationale" by Leonardo 
Fiorvanti. 


Del modo di fare il pan forte, che si fa nelle speciarie Cap 39 Libro Quinto.
Il  pan forte che si fa nelle spetiarie che a Roma lo chiamano pan pepato,  
perciohe vi entra il pepe, a Bologna lo chiamano pan spetiale, percioche  vi 
mettono dentro di piu sorti di spetie, & a Venetia lo chiamano  pan forte dal 
pepe che vi mettono, & in altri luochi lo chiamano in  diversi altri modi; una 
in quanto al modo di farlo e quasi tutto uno,  & si fa cosi cioe, si piglia 
farina, & se gli fa il suo levato  come si fa per fare il pane, & poi si impasta 
con acqua e mele tanto  di uno quanto di l'altro, & vi si mette pepe, zafarano, 
comino,  garofali, zucche condite, scorze di naranze condite; di tutte le  
sopradette cose quella quantita che pare allo speciale, che si convenga  in 
detto pane; & impastato che sara, fare il pane, & lasciarlo  levare, e poi farlo 
cuocere nel forno, avvertendo che il forno non sia  trooppo caldo quando vi si 
metto il detto pane, & questo e molto  salutifero (salutisero) allo stomaco 
rispetto alle specie che vi  entrano. 


The way to make "pan forte" that is made by the Spiciers (Chapter 39, Fifth 
book)
The  strong bread that is made by the spiciers of Rome is called Peppered  
bread, because it contains pepper, in Bologna it is called spiced bread  because 
they put inside many more types of spices, and in Venice they  call it strong 
bread because of the pepper they put in, and in other  places it is called in 
many other ways, however in all these places the  way of making it is almost 
only one, and one makes it thus that is, one  takes flour, and one gives it it's 
raising agent (bigo) the same as one  does for making bread, and then one pastes 
it (mixes it) with water and  honey more of the  one (first) than the other 
(second), and one puts into it pepper,  saffron, cumin, cloves, candied gourd 
(could be squash given time period  of writing) and candied orange peel, and all 
these above things one  puts in the quantity that is the opinion of the 
spicier, that one  agrees is better to add to this bread; and when it is mixed 
make the  bread and leave it to raise, and then put it to cook in the oven, 
taking  care that the oven is not too hot when you add the bread, and this is  
very healthy to the stomach because of the spices it has inside. 


Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:56:43 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Scappi

This is the Fiorvanti that was a physician in Bologna in the 16th Century? 
If so, this recipe dates from before his death in 1588, which means you've 
just given me another beautiful bread recipe from period.

The recipe is roughly the same as one from 1891 which means it is probably 
similar to that which was used in Sienna in the 13th Century.

Thank you.

The one problem I see in equating this panforte with panettone is that 
panettone is made with an enriched dough including butter, milk and eggs 
while panforte is a slightly sweetened standard bread dough (or a rather 
sticky gallette primarily of honey, fruit and nuts).  Even the recipes from 
1891 maintain this difference.

Bear

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Louise Smithson" <helewyse at yahoo.com>

<<< Does Scappi have a recipe called panettone?
De >>>

No, but there is this recipe for panforte which bears a lot of resemblance to
panettone, taken from "Del compendio de secreti rationale" by Leonardo
Fiorvanti.

<clipped> 


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:23:29 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Scappi

Panforte and panettone are similar in that they are "fruit cakes" but
otherwise not the same.  Panforte which seems to originate from Siena is a
compact or heavy textured "fruit cake" versus the panettone is a leavened
fruit cake. The dough is risen at least 3 times, plus the bread is a gold
color from the use of 3-4 eggs.
Thank you for looking.  I was told that panettone was very old and had been
made within SCA period and that a recipe could be found in Scappi. I guess
someone is passing along a myth or confusing panforte with panettone.

De

-----Original Message-----
<<< Does Scappi have a recipe called panettone?
De >>>

No, but there is this recipe for panforte which bears a lot of resemblance to
panettone, taken from "Del compendio de secreti rationale" by Leonardo
Fiorvanti.


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 06:27:34 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Not  Scappi, but M. Leonardo Fiorvanti

 On Oct 25, 2010, at 1:03 AM, David Walddon wrote:
<<< When you reference Chapter 39 in Book Five to which edition of  
Scappi are you referring?
I am looking in both Scully's translation and the Forni Italian  
edition and I find a pie made from small birds in that location.

Eduardo >>>

Baroness Helewyse is using a copy of

Del compendio de, secreti rationale. Dell'eccell. dottore, & caualiero  
M. Leonardo Fiorauanti Bolognese. Libri cinque... Con la tauola di  
tutti i capitoli. Venetia : appresso gli heredi di Melcho Sessa, 1581.

and not Scappi.

It's the text that provides the cheese and dairying instructions for  
her article in the Florilegium. The following cheese and dairying  
instructions were found in an unlikely location, namely Compendio de i  
secreti rationali di M. Leonardo Fiorvanti Bolognese, Medico &  
Cirugico.  (The Compendium of rational secrets of M. Leonardo  
Fiorvanti of Bologna, Medic and Surgeon).  The full text of this  
document is available via BNF Gallica (http://gallica2.bnf.fr/ ).

Johnna


Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:41:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] panettone in Scappi

I don't think that the question De posted ever got answered properly.  
There is no recipe in Scappi for Panettone, either by that name or any other.  
There are a few interesting yeast recipes.  Including one which looks a heck of 
a lot like a recipe for a croissant dough. 

(Recipe 132 5th book  - yeasted dough, folded with butter multiple times) but 
nothing like a Panettone. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 
Helewyse


Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:57:21 -0500
From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Types of Wheat for Bread

<<< I'm pretty sure someone here has the information and could 
provide some links to internet articles... What type of wheat was used 
for bread during Tudor times? >>>

For a start try this:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1577harrison-england.html#Chapter VI

Daniel


Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 22:58:24 -0500
From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Types of Wheat for Bread

From but a bit into the chapter.  Hope it helps.  The source is, of course, 
slightly later than requested:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1577harrison-england.html#Chapter VI
Modern History Sourcebook:
William Harrison (1534-1593):
Description Of Elizabethan England, 1577
(from Holinshed's Chronicles)

The bread throughout the land is made of such grain as the soil yieldeth; 
nevertheless the gentility commonly provide themselves sufficiently of wheat 
for their own tables, whilst their household and poor neighbours in some 
shires are forced to content themselves with rye, or barley, yea, and in 
time of dearth, many with bread made either of beans, peas, or oats, or of 
altogether and some acorns among, of which scourge the poorest do soonest 
taste, sith they are least able to provide themselves of better. I will not 
say that this extremity is oft so well to be seen in time of plenty as of 
dearth, but, if I should, I could easily bring my trial. For, albeit that 
there be much more ground eared now almost in every place than hath been of 
late years, yet such a price of corn continueth in each town and market 
without any just cause (except it be that landlords do get licences to carry 
corn out of the land only to keep up the prices for their own private gains 
and ruin of the commonwealth), that the artificer and poor labouring man is 
not able to reach unto it, but is driven to content himself with horse corn 
I mean beans, peas, oats, tares, and lentils: and therefore it is a true 
proverb, and never so well verified as now, that "Hunger setteth his first 
foot into the horse-manger." 3 If the world last awhile after this rate, 
wheat and rye will be no grain for poor men to feed on; and some 
caterpillars there are that can say so much already.

 [Footnote 3: A famine at hand is first seen in the horse-manger, when the 
poor do fall to horse corn. - H.]

Of bread made of wheat we have sundry sorts daily brought to the table, 
whereof the first and most excellent is the manchet, which we commonly call 
white bread, in Latin primarius panis, whereof Budeus also speaketh, in his 
first book De asse; and our good workmen deliver commonly such proportion 
that of the flour of one bushel with another they make forty cast of 
manchet, of which every loaf weigheth eight ounces into the oven, and six 
ounces out, as I have been informed. The second is the cheat or wheaten 
bread, so named because the colour thereof resembleth the grey or yellowish 
wheat, being clean and well dressed, and out of this is the coarsest of the 
bran (usually called gurgeons or pollard) taken. The ravelled is a kind of 
cheat bread also, but it retaineth more of the gross, and less of the pure 
substance of the wheat; and this, being more slightly wrought up, is used in 
the halls of the nobility and gentry only, whereas the other either is or 
should be baked in cities and good towns of an appointed size (according to 
such price as the corn doth bear), and by a statute provided by King John in 
that behalf. 4 The ravelled cheat therefore is generally so made that out of 
one bushel of meal, after two and twenty pounds of bran be sifted and taken 
from it (whereunto they add the gurgeons that rise from the manchet), they 
make thirty cast, every loaf weighing eighteen ounces into the oven, and 
sixteen ounces out; and, beside this, they so handle the matter that to 
every bushel of meal they add only two and twenty, or three and twenty, 
pound of water, washing also (in some houses) their corn before it go to the 
mill, whereby their manchet bread is more excellent in colour, and pleasing 
to the eye, than otherwise it would be. The next sort is named brown bread, 
of the colour of which we have two sorts one baked up as it cometh from the 
mill, so that neither the bran nor the flour are any whit diminished; this, 
Celsus called autopirus panis, lib. 2, and putteth it in the second place of 
nourishment. The other hath little or no flour left therein at all, howbeit 
he calleth it Panem Cibarium, and it is not only the worst and weakest of 
all the other sorts, but also appointed in old time for servants, slaves, 
and the inferior kind of people to feed upon. Hereunto likewise, because it 
is dry and brickle in the working (for it will hardly be made up handsomely 
into loaves), some add a portion of rye meal in our time, whereby the rough 
dryness or dry roughness thereof is somewhat qualified, and then it is named 
miscelin, that is, bread made of mingled corn, albeit that divers do sow or 
mingle wheat and rye of set purpose at the mill, or before it come there, 
and sell the same at the markets under the aforesaid name.

 [Footnote 4: The size of bread is very ill kept or not at all looked unto 
in the country towns or markets. - H.]

In champaign countries much rye and barley bread is eaten, but especially 
where wheat is scant and geson. As for the difference that it is between the 
summer and winter wheat, most husbandmen know it not, sith they are neither 
acquainted with summer wheat nor winter barley; yet here and there I find of 
both sorts, specially in the north and about Kendal, where they call it 
March wheat, and also of summer rye, but in so small quantities as that I 
dare not pronounce them to be greatly common among us.


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:11:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bread

<<< I'm actually doing a year long research project
on Bread in History, so being able to have that
back story, sets my mindset properly when
I research. I'm just not too sure where to 
start it all. I can bake any bread like nobody's 
business, but this is such a vast project that I
don't know where to start! LOL >>>

You might find my neighbor and former apprentice, Master Wulfric, website of use in your bread research.

http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/

Juana Isabella
West


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:23:29 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Was persona - now Bread

Have you joined the Yahoo list SCA Bakers?
Subscribe: scabakers-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:12:10 -0700
From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] History of Bread and baking

<<< What books would you all use/suggest for documentation for bread history? >>>

The History of Bread  Bernard Dupaigne  ISBN 0-8109-3438-8
A Treatise on Baking  J.E. Wihlfahrt
English Bread and Yeast Cookery Elizabeth David notes by Karen Hess ISBN
0-14046-539-1
Six Thousand Years of Bread H.E Jacob  ISBN 1-55821-575-1
World Sourdoughs from Antiquity Ed Wood  ISBN 0-9622694-6-8
The Ballymaloe Cookbook  Myrtle Allen

Aldyth


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:12:32 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] History of Bread and baking

If she is focused on Italian, reference Platina.  It has descriptions of 
preparing bread and rolls.  Bread recipes are in very short supply in period 
as baking was a seperate art from cooking and bakers kept their recipes and 
techniques to themselves.  If she is willing to use recipes from the Roman 
Empire, try Michael Grant's work on Roman Cookery.

Dupaigne (History of Bread) is interesting but not particularly useful. 
H.E. Jacob's Six Thousand Years of Bread is probably more useful for 
history.  David is limited as her work is on English yeast baking while most 
southern European baking was from starter rather than ale yeast. 
Toussaint-Samat has some useful information in A History of Food (beware of 
Franco-centrism).  There should also be a number of things out in the 
Florilegium as there is an entire section devoted to bread.

Bear

===============
One of my students is preparing for Pentathlon over here in CAID.  I have 
a number of books, but as I recently lost my sounding board for 
suggestions (Mistress Huette)... I wanted to make sure I was covering all 
the bases when pointing her in the right direction for documenting bread 
and baked goods.

What books would you all use/suggest for documentation for bread history? 
I have "history of bread" (author and book under a pile of books currently 
yikes) and I have an Elizabeth David book on baking and it's history. I 
have a ton of books scattered in my house, but these are the ones I could 
think of off the top of my head. Head is still a little fuzzy since I lost 
Huette, so I apologize for sounding like a bonehead.

Italian suggestions would be nice as that is what she's focused on. I have 
Scappi, but haven't read it fully yet. No idea if any bread or baking 
references in there.

Suggestions welcome. Help always appreciated.

--Mercy


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:23:12 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] History of Bread and baking

Well to start, Baroness Helewyse de Birkestad's Italian papers and  
recipes can be located now at http://www.medievalcookery.com/ 
helewyse/  [Pane di Latte et Zuccaro ? Twisted bread of milk and sugar  
and a paper on "Brazzatelli by any other name would taste as sweet"  
are included.]

Gillian Riley's The Oxford Companion to Italian Food is worth browsing  
through. Ask at your local library. There are numerous entries on  
breads, including a great deal of  medieval and Renaissance bread  
history in the entry under "Bread."

Terence Scully's translation of Scappi includes recipes with bread.

William Rubel's Bread: A Global History is brand new and might be  
worth a look depending on what else has already been seen. Ken  
Albala's Eating Right in the Renaissance and The Banquet are worth  
looking at. Also your library may have a copy of the Parasecoli volume  
Food Culture in Italy by Greenwood Press. That too might be worth  
looking at.

For general information and traditional recipes, Carol Field's The  
Italian Baker, Revised: The Classic Tastes of the Italian Countryside  
is available again.

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:39:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] History of Bread and baking

William Rubel's new book on bread (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/B/bo12342742.html) deals with lots of bread's early history at the beginning of the book.

Juana Isabella


Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:17:46 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Side Dishes for al-Warraq

Bear questioned the number of bread recipes in al-Warraq, since he hasn't seen them. They are on p. 118-122 of Annals of the Caliphs' Kitchens: Ibn Sayy?r al-Warr?q's Tenth Century Cookbook
-- Making khubz (flat bread) and ruq?q (very thin bread)
-- A recipe for Khubz al-ma' al-Nabati (Nabatean water bread)
-- A recipe for bread called khubz al-qanani (bottle bread)
-- Making khuybz ma'ruk (pressed and rubbed bread)
-- Making barazidhaj (fine white bread, thin and flat in shape, but not as thin as the paper-thin ruq?q bread. It is usually leavened with bakers' borax)
-- Making ruq?q (thin breads): Two kinds of ruq?q are made: labiq, and jarmazaj. The first variety os small and neatly shaped into perfect rounds flattened into extreme thinness. Jarmazaj is larger.
-- Making bread of Abu Hamza

That is 9 recipes. A few other breads, including bread made of rice (which he says is bloating), are mentioned in his introduction to the chapter.

Urtatim


Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 20:26:25 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Challah

Texturally challah has more similarity to brioche rather than baguette. 
Unlike brioche it does not use milk or butter, relying on eggs to add the 
fat.  Technically, it falls into the category of enriched breads.  The term 
challah defines a bread made of eggs, fine white flour, water, sugar (or 
honey or molasses), yeast and salt.  It covers a number of shapes and 
braidings having religious signifigance.

I know of no recipes prior to the 19th Century.

Bear


Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:21:09 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bread Puzzles

I've been trying to make sense of some detailed instructions for making 
bread on Jim Chevallier's blog, coming out of a 1499 account of a bread 
trial in Limoges. So far as I know, it's the only detailed bread recipe 
we have from period outside of the Islamic corpus. The following is my 
version, reduced down to a single loaf:

Combine 12 oz of white flour with 2 oz of sourdough.

According to Jim, the sourdough is simply old dough from a previous 
batch--not the sourdough culture that we use now.

The next day add .66 oz water (~4t !!!) and .08 oz salt (~ 1/3 t)

"To prepare both white and brown "besides the 10 pounds declared for 
leavening in the paton, 13 pounds 2 ounces" were added"

(the recipe is making white loaves from the bolted white flour, brown 
bread from the bolted bran. The flour for the white bread weighs about 
six times the flour for the brown bread. My best guess is that this is 
adding more leavening, divided between the two batches of dough. Scaled 
down to one loaf of white bread, it comes to a little over two ounces. 
But that isn't how I have interpreted it in my experiments, for reasons 
that should become clear.)

The dough for the white loaf now weighs 15 ounces.

Let it rise and bake it.

It will occur to bakers that this recipe is impossible. You can't make 
dough by adding four teaspoons of water to three cups of flour. The 
sourdough doesn't help, since it's presumably the same mix of flour and 
water as the dough.

I tried making it on the assumption that the addition was not sourdough 
but water, which gives me an extra quarter cup or so of water. That 
still isn't enough to make a dough, although it comes closer. Adding a 
quarter cup or so more water gives a very stiff dough, but not 
impossible, and baking it gives something not too unlike french bread.

Several possible solutions occurred to me:

1. French bread was apparently made from soft wheat. Our standard bread 
flour is from hard wheat. Hard wheat is said to absorb more water than 
soft wheat. So I tried doing it with pastry flour, which is from soft 
wheat. It still needed more water than the recipe said.

2. The flour in the recipe is fresh ground. Perhaps that's moister than 
our commercial flour. I tried grinding wheat and sieving it, probably 
not nearly as well as they did?the "white" flour was still pretty brown. 
Still didn't work.

3. Perhaps Jim is wrong about the sourdough and I should be using my 
sourdough, which is half water, half flour. That gets an extra ounce of 
water at the beginning, but that isn't enough--and if I assume that the 
later addition is leavening, which seems the natural reading of the 
text, that part gives me an ounce less water than when I assumed it was 
water. I haven't tried that version.

Another possibility is that the water in the recipe is what you add 
early for some reason, and that it is taken for granted that you later 
add whatever is needed to make a suitable dough. But the text I'm 
working from is a very detailed description of a bread trial, presumably 
part of the process for regulating what bakers did. Further, it 
specifies pieces of dough weighing 15 ounces each, which is almost 
exactly what I get if I follow the instructions straight.

The simplest solution is to assume that, for some reason that hasn't 
occurred to me, the flour they were using was relatively damp. That 
provides the extra water while still being consistent with the final 
weight. I'm running an experiment now, adding 1/4 c of water to the 
initial flour (reduced by two ounces to get the total back to 12 
ounces). That ought to make the initial fermentation, done before the 
instructions add any water, work better.

Another possibility is that the text I have is wrong. Perhaps Jim made a 
mistake in translation, or perhaps there is a scribal error somewhere. 
But it's hard to see what error could leave the final weight of the 
dough almost exactly equal to the weight of the ingredients that go into 
it.

Suggestions?

For anyone who wants to look at the text I am working from, Jim's blog is:
http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2015/09/french-bread-history-making.html
-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:59:05 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Puzzles

From: David Friedman
<<< I've been trying to make sense of some detailed instructions for making
bread on Jim Chevallier's blog, coming out of a 1499 account of a bread
trial in Limoges. So far as I know, it's the only detailed bread recipe
we have from period outside of the Islamic corpus. The following is my
version, reduced down to a single loaf: <snip> >>>

Very interesting.

Let's eliminate any weight discrepancies.  The French livre (or pound) was 
set in 1350 and was retained until replaced by the metric system.  It 
consists of 16 oz. or 2 marcs (8 oz.).  It is about .08 lbs. more than the 
standard American pound and comes in at 489.5 grams.  There is no issue of 
conversion in the ratios describe and they can translate directly into the 
American standard measures.

The directions specify the following ingredients:

58 pounds               flour
10 pounds               leavening

 3.125 pounds        water
   .375 pounds        salt
13.125 pounds        "other"

 9 pounds               bran


This recipe makes no sense unless "other" is liquor (water, milk, etc.). 
That makes the ratio about 3.5:1 flour to water by weight.  Stiff, but 
workable.

Then there is the question of whether the levain is hard or soft.  I'm going 
to assume a soft leaven of 1:2 flour to water by weight.  A hard leaven 
needs to be broken apart in a warm liquid before use.  In fact, for a recipe 
like this, I would have used the 3.125 pounds of water to break apart the 
soft leaven to get a better spread of yeast through the dough.

All of the ingredients weighed together excepting the bran are 84.625 lbs..

The dough for the white loaves weighs 71.25 lbs..  The dough for the coarse 
loaves weighs 13.23 lbs. minus 9 lbs. of bran giving 4.23 lbs. of dough. 
75.48 lbs. total.  Subtracting that from 84.625 lbs. yields 9.145 lbs. or 
about what is expected when recovering the levain from the current batch of 
dough.  These measures suggest that coarse bread is made 2:1 bran to dough 
by weight.

Bread loses roughly 25 percent of it's weight in baking with some variation 
for moisture retention in various flours.  The total weight of the finished 
bread (just over 66 lbs.) is approximately 78 percent of the total dough 
weight plus the 9 lbs. of bran.

The weights I would experiment with for a white loaf are:

480 g.                     flour
 85 g.                     starter
 26 g.                     water
110 g.                     "other" water
   3 g.                     salt

And a baking time of 40-45 min. in a 400 degree F oven.

This should produce a loaf of roughly 1 lb. 2 oz., a little larger than the 
ones described, but still in the ball park.

I am of the opinion that the smaller amount of liquid is used to hydrate the 
starter no matter what the description says.  I have encountered a 
description of a modern French baker transporting his levain, about the size 
of a soccer ball, half way around the world.  The levain was used to leaven 
commercial batches of bread and recovered from the dough created, so I have 
no reason to doubt Jim's description of the starter.

I wouldn't worry about the differences between soft and hard flours moisture 
content, but the freshness of the flour might cause a problem.  Resting the 
flour for three days before bolting lets some of the excess moisture escape. 
You should also consider that this is a whole wheat flour and has a higher 
fat content than white flours.

I don't know what you used for sieving, but medieval flour for white bread 
usually went through a coarse sieve, a fine sieve and a cloth sieve.  That 
last one makes for some very finely ground flour, but it is labor intensive.

It should be noted that no times are given for the time of the first rise, 
so we don't know how long it sat after the dough was mixed before shaping 
although the actual test began on the 25th and ingredients were added the 
next day.  The second rise was two hours.  Other than those, we have no idea 
of the timing or on what day the test ended.

A transcription of the original text would be of interest.

Bear


Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 18:34:54 -0500
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Puzzles

Wow. You folks are sure better at math than I am.

A few notes:

I have a link to the original French in my post. Here it is:
https://books.google.com/books?id=pLGnkboiV38C&dq=%22pain%20blanc%22%20seti
er%20denier&pg=PA198#v=onepage&q&f=false 

There are a few regionalisms in it, but basically it's medieval  French.

I note elsewhere in the post that it is dangerous to take the measurements  
too literally. These varied enormously across France until the Revolution  
(threatening to behead people does wonders in getting them to fall in line). 
I'm  reasonably sure that the pound and ounces here are in the ballpark of 
our  meaning, but it would take some pretty close study of the Limousin 
weights and  measures in particular to be sure.

Under the "Leavening" heading. I cite a variety of references which confirm 
that the term at this point referred to old dough (at least in France). 
The  first reference I've seen to breaking this up comes from Markham (that 
is,  seventeenth century). This and the later French practice of cultivating 
several  generations of leavening makes me think that the use of leavening 
evolved over  time (but was still in its infancy in our period).

I fully agree about the importance of bolting and sifting (and in fact  
emphasize that in the relative section of my post). In my own case, having  
laboriously sifted blender-ground flour into very white flour I still ended up with a brown bread. Ideally however one would use an impact method to grind the flour, in order to remove the bran from the endosperm without mixing it all together.

(For what it's worth, however, when I made myself some bread with  
completely unsifted home-ground flour, it was delicious.)

Otherwise, I would like to emphasize that as excited as I was to find this  
particular text, my post goes well beyond it to outline parameters based on 
various sources that hopefully would bring any attempt to make "medieval" 
bread  closer to what is actually known. I'm grateful for David's 
persistence and for  his and Bear's calculations, but I hope anyone trying to make French  medieval-style bread will consider the other options here as well.

Jim  Chevallier


Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 10:38:58 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bread Puzzles-- Manchet

There are of course manchet recipes from the late 16th century. They appear in print in "The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen".

Extensive article here:
http://www.williamrubel.com/manchet-bread-from-huswifes-handmaide-in-the-kitchen/

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 19:07:56 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Reconstructing Medieval Bread was bread puzzles

Speaking about bread, readers here might like the following blog by Professor Ken Albala who has been doing some work on bread for an article in the online Getty Museum magazine. 

"Reconstructing Medieval Bread" How accurate is this medieval picture of bread baking? A food historian does some delicious research - 
See more at: http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/reconstructing-medieval-bread/#sthash.kvEZWquZ.dpuf

http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/reconstructing-medieval-bread/

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 22:46:49 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Feasts, bread, butter

<<< But this does make me think, how was bread handled during a ?standard? 
medieval feast. If they were using trenchers, were separate bread or rolls 
served? If so, when and how many times was it brought out?

Stefan >>>

Bread of some form was served at almost every meal.  Based on the available 
records, it is estimated that per capita consumption averaged 1 to 2 pounds 
per day.

Trenchers are a special case in that they are not intended to be eaten.  The 
cost of trenchers was prohibitive, so regular use was limited to the great 
noble houses, where it would likely be one trencher loaf per person per 
course (roughly 4 to 6 loaves per person per day, more for a feast).  The 
soggy remains would be removed between courses by the waiters under the 
almoner's direction to be given as charity to the poor (in theory, practice 
was a bit more variable.  Expensive fine china was a real bargain compared 
to bread trenchers.

Menagier, being merely upper class or possibly lower nobility, limited the 
use of bread trenchers to special occasions and limited them to one trencher 
per person per meal.

The bread and trenchers for a meal were controlled by the pantler who 
directed the amounts and quality depending on the number of diners. 
Accounting was handled by the household clerk, who received an accounting of 
the baker's inventories and outputs and the pantler's receipts from the 
baker and the accounting of the pantler's expenditures per meal.  Similar 
accountings of inventories and expenditures were required of the butler and 
the cook.  Breads were probably set forth several times during the meal to 
reduce wastage, but I have not encountered a description of the process.

Bear


Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 18:02:46 -0400
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Feasts, bread, butter

Pain de bouche or (in England) pain de Mayne. Typically round and about a  
pound in size, of the whitest bread then available.

The word "roll" by the way developed in English as a way to refer to these  
small "rolled" balls of bread and came to mean any finer bread. Leading to 
the  sometimes confusing usage in nineteenth century English of "roll" to 
refer to  long French breads. But as a practical matter to our minds the old 
better breads  WOULD have been rolls. In France, it was only about the 
eighteenth, maybe the  end of the seventeenth, century that it began to become common for good bread to  weigh about four pounds.

These are the breads (sometimes round, sometimes in hemispheres) you see in 
numerous medieval images of feasts.

The trencher wasn't really treated as a bread; a trencher in fact could be  
made of metal. It's a corruption of the word "tranchoir" from "trancher" 
(to  slice) and could be any surface used to slice food. Note by the way that 
bread  trenchers are only referenced for two, maybe three hundred years. It 
is very  unlikely that Charlemagne or even Hugues Capet used trenchers.

Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

FRENCH BREAD HISTORY:  Seventeenth century bread
http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2016/02/french-food-history-seventeenth-century
.html


From the fb "Medieval & Renaissance Cooking and Recipes":

Ea Fleming
11/29/18 at 9:11 AM

The new Petits Propos Culinaires (PPC), #112, November 2018, has two articles of possible interest to SCAdians. PPC is “an international journal on food, food history, cookery and cookery books. The first article, which I’m not writing about, is “The Culinary Vocabulary of the Anglo-French ‘Lay of Haveloc’: Getting It Wrong”. If you have an interest in that medieval poem, you might enjoy the article which tackles potentially mis-translated words.

The other article is “Exeter’s Elizabethan Bakers”, a “prosopographical” study from historical records in Exeter, England. One paragraph explores who the customers of bread are, specifically donations to the poor who needed bread to survive. Another paragraph, which I’m quoting, explains the various types of bread. “Most upmarket was white manchet bread – made from the finest sieved flour. Commonly, bread was cheat bread – half and half white flour/wholemeal flour made with sour dough, which was not as prestigious but still of good repute. After that came ‘raveled cheat’ which was even more wholemealy, then brown bread (absolutely wholemeal, then second-best brown bread which included rye, ‘which kept the bellye loose,’ and finally maslin bread made from mixed pulses, rye, oats, acorns – the bottom of the range. Coarse breads were also used as trenchers until the early to mid-sixteenth century, then were replaced by wooden trenchers.” This is the paragraph that might be of most interest to SCAdians.

Subsequent topics include exploring whether bread was home-baked or shop bought; how wealthy (or not) bakers were; the social status of bakers and their activity in town affairs; apprentices; “who knew who” – the various personal relationships (marriage, etc.) that were documented in Exeter’s records; holding second jobs; baking itself (ovens, amounts of various types of flour purchased; and much more.

For documentation, there are 33 footnotes as well as a good bibliography. If you’d like to get a copy of this journal, go to:
https://prospectbooks.co.uk/ppc-petits-propos-culinaires/

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	bread-msg	Page 3 of 119