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fd-n-Shkspear-msg - 11/4/14

 

Mentions of food in Shakespeare's works.

 

NOTE: See also the files: fd-in-Chaucer-msg, books-food-msg, online-ckbks-msg, rec-in-verse-msg, rec-tim-pray-msg, fd-paintings-msg, Bread-Hist-art.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:25:14 -0700 (PDT)

From: Tom Vincent <tom.vincent at yahoo.com>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Funeral foods ...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

From Romeo & Juliet (Act 4, Scene 4):

 

LADY CAPULET:   Hold, take these keys, and fetch more spices, Nurse.

 

NURSE:  They call for dates and quinces in the pastry.

 

               Enter CAPULET

            

CAPULET:       Come, stir, stir, stir! The second  

cock hath crowed. The curfew bell hath rung. 'Tis three  

o'clock.  Look to the baked meats, good Angelica.         Spare  

not for the cost.

 

So maybe dates and quinces and pastry and baked meats go together?

 

   http://shakespeare.about.com/library/blglossB.htm considers 'baked  

meats' to mean 'meat-pies, pastry'.

 

"Judith L. Smith Adams" <judifer50 at yahoo.com> wrote:

======

Sandra Kisner wrote: > >Well, the first thing that comes to mind is  

Hamlet's little joke

>> about Gertrude and Claudius' wedding being so soon after the death of

>> Hamlet the Elder that they could recycle the leftover pies from the

>> funeral for the wedding feast...

>> 

>> Adamantius

 

Just for clarification, the quote actually goes:

"Thrift, thrift, Horatio! the funeral baked meats

Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables."

 

I wasn't under the impression that specifically meant pies.

 

Sandra

So, scholars and cooks, what do we know about what Shakespeare meant  

- or didn't - by "baked meats"??

 

Judith

======

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 07:24:13 +0000 (GMT)

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

--- Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps <dephelps at embarqmail.com> schrieb am So, 6.7.2008:

<<< Shakespeare mentions in his plays oranges twice, lemons once and limes

twelve times. In the case of limes this would suggest more

than a passing acquaintance with the fruit. >>>

 

Which opens the question which fruit Shakespeare was talking about. A problem in the German corpus is that loan words from various languages are used to describe citrus fruit. The common 'Limon(i)e/Limun(i)e', e.g., probably actually describes the lemon (modern German Zitrone) rather than the lime (modern German Limone).

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 04:08:38 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>,     "Cooks within the SCA"

      <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Volker Bach" <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

--- Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps <dephelps at embarqmail.com> schrieb am So,

6.7.2008:

<<< Shakespeare mentions in his plays oranges twice, lemons once and limes

twelve times. In the case of limes this would suggest more

than a passing acquaintance with the fruit. >>>

 

Which opens the question which fruit Shakespeare was talking about. A

problem in the German corpus is that loan words from various languages are

used to describe citrus fruit. The common 'Limon(i)e/Limun(i)e', e.g.,

probably actually describes the lemon (modern German Zitrone) rather than

the lime (modern German Limone).

--------

 

I've found several references to lime in Shakespeare.  In Richard II, the

reference appears to be to limestone.  In Henry IV, it's a reference to the

practice of adding alkaline earth to fortified wine with a similar reference

in The Merry Wives of Windsor.  Midsummer Night's Dream appears to be a

reference to either limestone or cement.  In Henry VI are references to

using bird lime to trap birds and meaning "to cement".  I haven't found

anything to suggest that Shakespeare was referring to the fruit of C.

medica, in fact all such references in English appear to begin in the

mid-17th Century.

 

Also, lime or lime tree can be a reference to a linden tree, although the

reference I have found are 17th Century.

 

I would like to know where the references I haven't found appear in

Shakespeare, so that I might review the context.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:08:19 -0500

From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

I have a book that lists all the food references in the Bard's plays.  It is

titled "Butter on the Bard."  That is where I found the number of references

to oranges, lemons and limes.  I will need to look for it.

 

Daniel

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 09:51:33 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Food in Shakespeare

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Here's an interesting site on food references in Shakespeare's works:

http://www.soupsong.com/ibard.html .

 

On the question of citrus in the Bard's plays, it shows two references to

oranges in Much Ado About Nothing and a reference to lemons in Love's Labor

Lost, but nothing about limes.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 19:37:29 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] (No) Limes in Shakespeare

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

<<< Here's an interesting site on food references in Shakespeare's works:

http://www.soupsong.com/ibard.html .

 

On the question of citrus in the Bard's plays, it shows two references to

oranges in Much Ado About Nothing and a reference to lemons in Love's Labor

Lost, but nothing about limes.

 

Bear >>>

 

Also, Alexander Schmidt, in his two-volume Shakespeare-Lexicon does not

mention the fruit in the entry "lime": "Lime, subst. 1) a viscous substance laid on twigs to catch birds, bird-lime, ... 2) the matter of which mortar is made ..." (volume I, page 655).

 

E.

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 14:50:39 -0700

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: carlton_bach at yahoo.de, Cooks within the SCA

        <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

--- Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps <dephelps at embarqmail.com> schrieb am

So, 6.7.2008:

<<< Shakespeare mentions in his plays oranges twice, lemons once and limes

twelve times. In the case of limes this would suggest more than a passing

acquaintance with the fruit. >>>

 

Which opens the question which fruit Shakespeare was talking about.

A problem in the German corpus is that loan words from various

languages are used to describe citrus fruit. The common

'Limon(i)e/Limun(i)e', e.g., probably actually describes the lemon

(modern German Zitrone) rather than the lime (modern German Limone).

-----------

 

Other possible sources of confusion, depending on just what

Shakespeare says, are that "lime" is also used for the linden or

basswood tree and for Calcium Hydroxide.

 

I did a Google search of the site http://shakespeare.mit.edu/, which

has all of Shakespeare on it, for "lime." None of the 13 hits appears

to refer to the fruit. Most of them are references to the chemical,

used either for catching birds ("Like lime-twigs set to catch my

winged soul") or in mortar ("Within the limits of yon lime and stone:").

--

David Friedman

www.daviddfriedman.com

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 22:56:05 -0500

From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Let me see thee, froth and lime.  Host, The Merry Wives of Windsor, 1,3

 

While the title is "Butter in the Bard",  after the pervious discussion I

cannot speak for the author's ability to tell lime quick or otherwise from

the citrus fruit.

 

Daniel

 

 

Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 23:08:04 -0500

From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Biron:    A lemon.

Longaville:    Stuck with cloves.

 

Loves Labour's Lost, 5,2

 

Daniel

 

 

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:01:42 -0600 (CST)

From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Farmer's feasts question

 

Besides in Rumpolt, does anyone know of any other late-period references

to what a feast menu for the lower classes should be like? I am

researching an A&S entry for 12th Night and my research library is

woefully inadequate for Tudor/Elizabethan era anything, let alone feast

menus.

 

The goal is to base the entry off of "a Shakespeare quote". So I am going

with a quote from the play "A Winter's Tale" in which one of the

characters is reciting his shopping list for the sheepshearing feast they

are going to have.

 

"I cannot do't without counters. Let me see; what am

I to buy for our sheep-shearing feast? Three pound

of sugar, five pound of currants, rice,--what will

this sister of mine do with rice? But my father

hath made her mistress of the feast, and she lays it

on. She hath made me four and twenty nose-gays for

the shearers, three-man-song-men all, and very good

ones; but they are most of them means and bases; but

one puritan amongst them, and he sings psalms to

horn-pipes. I must have saffron to colour the warden

pies; mace; dates?--none, that's out of my note;

nutmegs, seven; a race or two of ginger, but that I

may beg; four pound of prunes, and as many of

raisins o' the sun."

 

Specifically I am looking for info on what the upper classes thought would

be appropriate for a farmer's feast. I have a reference that says that a

roast joint of mutton is expected at a shearer's dinner, and later there's

a discussion of what grains to make the pie crusts and puddings out of,

but that's all I have.

 

Margaret FitzWilliam

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
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Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org