cookbooks6-msg - 1/23/09
Reviews of cookbooks with medieval recipes posted after December 2006.
NOTE: See also the files: cookbooks-msg, cookbooks2-msg, cookbooks5-msg, cooking-bib, cookbooks-bib, cookbooks2-bib, cookbooks-SCA-msg, cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cb-novices-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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[See the other cookbooksX-msg files, where X = a number for the messages posted before and after those in this file.]
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:23:01 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Burger battle
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Who is "Benavides-Barajas"? I don't think I remember his works being
> discussed here before.
>
> Stefan
I think this is probably Luis Benavides-Barajas. The name popped up on the
list five or six years ago in a bibliography from a book on Spanish culinary
traditions (IIRC). According to my notes, he's a noted culinary author in
Spanish with at least 15 books to his credit. Again IIRC, I've read one
small modern piece by him translated into English and found the prose a
little florid.
Since I haven't read his work, I can't begin to address it's accuracy. A
quick search on his name in relation to the Florilegium shows that Huette
raised a question about the historical accuracy of his recipe for alfajores.
Bear
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:17:28 -0300
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Burger Battle
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Phil Troy wrote:
> I'm left wondering whether Benavides-Barajas actually
> used the word "hamburger" . . . or "albondiga" (meatball)
He calls it "Supremo de carne o hamburgesa andalusi" not
'albondiga'. He does distinguish the two terms clearly in his books.
Stefan li Rous wrote:
Who is "Benavides-Barajas"? I don't think I remember his works
being discussed here before.
L. Benavides-Barajas is a Spanish specialist in historical gastronomy.
He has contributed to several European magazines, gastronomy guide books
and cookery books such as the second edition of "Dinner Party Book" and
"Let's Lunch in London" by Corrine Streich. Also he has written for La
Cronica de Granada, The Reporter and the Daily Telegraph. In Spain he is
known for his publications such as "Nueva-Clasica Andalusi", "La
Alhambra," "Los moz?rabes y muladies," "Al-Andalus, la cocina y su
historia" and other historical cookery books on various areas in
Al-Andalus. He provides historical information and recipes some of
which are obviously modernized versions of Huici's Spanish translation
of the 13th C Hispano-Arabic manuscript. His work is interesting and
informative but as indicated he looses credibility for his failure to
cite his sources.
Susan
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:27:47 -0500
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
I just received my copy of Daz B?ch von G?ter
Spise, the translation by Melitta Adamson.
<soapbox>
The book has a huge rant against the SCA
translation by Alia Atlas. Among other things it
says this "translation spread more false
information on the oldest German cookbook than
any other edition or translation to date".
Adamson's translation is noticeably better.
After all, that is why I paid $24 for a tiny
little paperback.
But except for a few recipes, it only reads
smoother. Atlas's translation has mistakes, but
the recipes for the most part are useful to a
cook, even if they don't make it as literature.
I started researching German food because of
Atlas' translation was available online. Is it
better to have somewhat faulty information, or no
information at all? Cariadoc said "The best
should not become the enemy of the good".
This struck home because I am attempting to do my
own translation of Rumpolt's Ein New Kochbuch. In
spite of care, it is no doubt peppered with
mistakes.
If a "best" translation of Rumpolt was available,
I'd love to be using it. I hope someone
publishes a better translation than my beginner's
attempt
If I share my translations, and make something
available, that was not readily available before,
does that mean I am "spreading false information"?
Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one else
has done?
</soapbox>
Ranvaig
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 23:28:47 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:27 PM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I just received my copy of Daz B?ch von G?ter
> Spise, the translation by Melitta Adamson.
>
> <soapbox>
> The book has a huge rant against the SCA
> translation by Alia Atlas.
Just because it was translated by a member of the SCA does not make
it an SCA translation. There are some in academia though who will
tar all SCAdians with the same brush.
> But except for a few recipes, it only reads
> smoother. Atlas's translation has mistakes, but
> the recipes for the most part are useful to a
> cook, even if they don't make it as literature.
Then the cooks who can't afford Adamson's version will use the free
one, and the historians who want the best translation they can get
still have something to buy - as will the libraries. Everybody wins.
Adamson's biggest reason to complain though is probably rooted in the
mistaken belief that if there's a free version of a text on the web,
then a bound hardcopy has less value.
> If I share my translations, and make something
> available, that was not readily available before,
> does that mean I am "spreading false information"?
No. Your translation may not be perfect, but odds are it's better
than nothing. You can only "spread misinformation" if you
intentionally pass on translations that you know are wrong (as
opposed to essentially correct but inelegant).
> Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one
> else has done?
Not in my opinion. If you're willing to make your translation freely
accessible and to correct errors when/if they're pointed out to you,
then you're making a valuable contribution to the field. Keep at it!
- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:47:05 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Doing my best
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:27 PM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I started researching German food because of
> Atlas' translation was available online. Is it
> better to have somewhat faulty information, or no
> information at all? Cariadoc said "The best
> should not become the enemy of the good".
>
> This struck home because I am attempting to do my
> own translation of Rumpolt's Ein New Kochbuch. In
> spite of care, it is no doubt peppered with
> mistakes.
>
> If a "best" translation of Rumpolt was available,
> I'd love to be using it. I hope someone
> publishes a better translation than my beginner's
> attempt
>
> If I share my translations, and make something
> available, that was not readily available before,
> does that mean I am "spreading false information"?
Well, that depends. Anybody can make a mistake. What matters is
whether you respond to a well-intended correction in a manner that
indicates you're interested in a good piece of work over bolstering
your own ego. I've had experiences with SCAdians who've done
translations based on guesswork and a dictionary for a language they
don't really speak or understand fluently, when a correction was
offered in good faith by someone who speaks the language fluently
_and_ has access to dictionaries. The difference is that foundation
which serves as a "hook" on which to hang the dictionary work.
Alia Atlas (who was once active in the East Kingdom), from my own
experience, never actively resisted corrections, but her work got so
widely distributed, and so quickly, that it became difficult to hunt
down various incarnations and make sure corrections were applied. I
have a friend who was in the room when Caterina read Adamson's
comments, and she was utterly devastated, another casualty of a
brilliant academic whose skillset apparently doesn't include enough
tact to encourage someone for the greater good and for the sake of
the spread of enlightenment every academic is supposedly dedicated to.
Most everything Adamson said was true. Her remarks also read to me as
childish, arrogant, and designed to discourage "amateur" scholarship
from people without proper academic credentials. There's some
question whether Adamson would ever have gotten off her butt and done
her own edition of Ein Buoch von Guter Spise had Atlas not produced
her flawed version.
> Is it wrong to do the best job you can, on something that no one
> else has done?
No, not at all. See above. Being afraid to speak, or to have an
opinion, because someone else may have an opinion better informed
than, or in disagreement with, yours, is when learning comes to a
crashing halt.
Hey, I make idiotic statements all the time. I enjoy it. It's like
serving the ball in a tennis match. Come back to me with something
better. If you can, we all win. If not, same difference. It's when
people can't or won't speak because they're afraid of being thought
stupid, is when we all get a little stupid.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:51:53 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Deipnosophists
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
It turns out that Harvard University Press has a new edition of this
out. So far there's 2 volumes
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/L208N.html
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/L204N.html
The Learned Banqueters, I, Books 1-3.106e
The Learned Banqueters, II, Books 3.106e-5.
Athenaeus Edited and translated by S. Douglas Olson
In /The Learned Banqueters/, Athenaeus describes a series of dinner
parties at which the guests quote extensively from Greek literature. The
work (which dates to the very end of the second century A.D.) is amusing
reading and of extraordinary value as a treasury of quotations from
works now lost. Athenaeus also preserves a wide range of information
about different cuisines and foodstuffs; the music and entertainments
that ornamented banquets; and the intellectual talk that was the heart
of Greek conviviality. S. Douglas Olson has undertaken to produce a
complete new edition of the work, replacing the previous seven-volume
Loeb Athenaeus (published under the title /Deipnosophists/)
The next volume is due out in January 2008.
Johnnae
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:29:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Spanish books was Book Search
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Gretchen Allen Johns wrote:
> Is anyone aware of an English translation or a webbed version of
> either of the following books:
> Vergel de sanidad: que por otro nombre se llamava Banquete de
> cavalleros y orden de Bivir.. By Lobera de Avila
The 1542 is on microform.
By the same author *variant title: Banquete de nobles caballeros
(1530)*
Luis *Lobera de Avila * is available in a 1952 reprint. Oh and
there's a
1996 *1. ed. **Spanish* Book 227 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
San Sebasti?n : R & B Ediciones, ; ISBN: 8488947593 9788488947598
Collecci?n de textos gastron?micos ;; 11; *Variation:* Colecc?on Textos
gastron?micos ;; 12.
There's also a 1923 reprint volume titled *Libro del r?gimen de la salud :*
*y de la esterilidad de los hombres y mujeres, y de las enfermedades de
los ni?os, y otras cosas util?simas /*
Luis *Lobera de Avila*; Baltasar *Hern?ndez Briz*
His works appear in Spanish, German, Dutch, Italian, French, Latin,
Portuguese, but not in English.
> Dialogos de philsophia natural y moral By Enrique Jorge Enriquez
That title appears to be wrong. *Keyword Dialogos AND Keyword philsophia
*did not find any records in this database.Enrique Enriquez appears in
RLIN to be the author of only one book. It is on microfilm and it's in
Spanish.
Johnna
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:28:42 -0400
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Book Search
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Gretchen Allen Johns wrote:
> Is anyone aware of an English translation or a webbed version of
> either of the following books:
> Vergel de sanidad: que por otro nombre se llamava Banquete de
> cavalleros y orden de Bivir.. By Lobera de Avila
I'm not aware of any translations, but there's a webbed facsimile at:
http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?
ref=X532742701&idioma=0
> Dialogos de philsophia natural y moral By Enrique Jorge Enriquez
I'm not familiar with this one. Are you sure about the author? There's
a 1558 book by this title, but the author is Pedro Mercado. It's webbed at:
http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533763915&;idioma=0
--
Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due out
hopefully soon!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
When I was on the Library of Congress, looking for something else of
course, I stumbled on
to this entry:
Zaouali, Lilia, 1960-
Medieval cuisine of the Islamic world : a concise history with 174
recipes / Lilia Zaouali ;
translated by M.B. DeBevoise ; foreword by Charles Perry.
Berkeley : University of California Press, 2007.
Projected Publication Date: 0709
p. cm.
ISBN: 9780520247833 (cloth : alk. paper)
Notes: "Translated from both the original French version and the
published Italian edition of the
book"--Pref. to the American edition. Includes bibliographical
references and index.
Subjects:
Cookery, Arab.
Arabs--Food--History.
Cookery, Medieval.
Cookery, Islamic.
This sounds like a good book. I just hope that it will be published
before 2009.
Huette
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due
out hopefully soon!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I just checked the website for the U. of Calif. Press and found out that it is being published in October of this year! For the exorbitant sum of
$24.95! And they are taking pre-orders! Yippy!!!!
Huette
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:47:39 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Cuisine of Islamic World was New
book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due out hopefully soon!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Here's the description that I came across the other day.
Huette is right as it does look like it will be an interesting title for
the fall.
Johnnae (who promises a forthcoming booklist one of these days)
Medieval Cuisine of the Islamic World: A Concise History with 174
Recipes *by Lilia Zaouali **Publication Date:* October, 2007 *University
of California Press ****ISBN:* 0-520-24783-3 *ISBN13:*
978-0-520-24783-3 ** Trade Cloth *Pages:* 242 *Price:* $24.95 (USD)
Retail (Publisher)
Vinegar and sugar, dried fruit, rose water, spices from India and China,
sweet wine made from raisins and dates--these are the flavors of the
golden age of Arab cuisine. This book, a delightful culinary adventure
that is part history and part cookery, surveys the gastronomical art
that developed at the Caliph's sumptuous palaces in ninth- and
tenth-century Baghdad, drew inspiration from Persian, Greco-Roman, and
Turkish cooking, and rapidly spread across the Mediterranean. In a
charming narrative, Lilia Zaouali introduces the great medieval cooks
and cookbooks, discusses the origins of dietary obsessions and
prohibitions, tells of Arab merchants who traveled to China to obtain
sugar, coconuts, and spices four centuries before Marco Polo, considers
the food of Ramadan, and much more as she brings to life Islam's vibrant
culinary heritage. The second half of the book gathers an extensive
selection of original recipes drawn from medieval culinary sources along
with thirty contemporary recipes that evoke the flavors of the Middle
Ages. Featuring dishes such as Chicken with Walnuts and Pomegranate,
Beef with Pistachios, Couscous with Walnuts, Lamb Stew with Fresh
Apricots, Tuna and Eggplant Pureacute;e with Vinegar and Caraway, and
Stuffed Dates, the book also discusses topics such as cookware,
utensils, aromatic substances, and condiments, making it both an
entertaining read and an informative resource for anyone who enjoys the
fine art of cooking.
<<< I just checked the website for the U. of Calif. Press and found out that
it is being published in October of this year! For the exorbitant sum of $24.95! And they are taking pre-orders! Yippy!!!!
Huette >>>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 19:38:25 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New book on period Middle Eastern Cookery due
out hopefully soon!
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Zaouali, Lilia, 1960-
> Medieval cuisine of the Islamic world : a concise history with 174
> recipes / Lilia Zaouali ;
> translated by M.B. DeBevoise ; foreword by Charles Perry.
> Berkeley : University of California Press, 2007.
> Projected Publication Date: 0709
> ISBN: 9780520247833 (cloth : alk. paper)
> Notes: "Translated from both the original French version and the
> published Italian edition of
> the book"
Charles Perry was not thrilled about this book. He said it rather
jumps from al-Baghdadi to the 20th century without covering much in
between. And the author didn't seem to understand that the history of
what was in between was also significant.
I always welcome new books, but I would rather see it first before i
buy it, based on his reservations.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:50:09 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meals and Recipes from Ancient Greece
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I bought it in the spring at Borders (had Borders credit that had to be used).
You might check and see if a larger bookstore in your area has a copy
that you can see. Or interlibrary loan it in before buying it.
It's a work with ancient Greek recipes. Not all original recipes
are given. Only 56 recipes total.
Very short bibliography for the first section. My thought is that
copies of Dalby's works might be more useful for the money.
Johnnae
Sandra Kisner wrote:
> Is anybody familiar with this book?
>
> Sandra
>
> Salza Prina Ricotti (ed.), Eugenia, Meals and Recipes from Ancient
> Greece. Translated by Ruth Anne Lotero. Los Angeles: Getty
> Publications, 2007. Pp. 122. ISBN 978-0-89236-876-1. $24.95.
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:55:37 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help finding out-of-print sources
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
Sandragood at aol.com
Before there was EEBO, there was microfilm and a number of
university and college libraries have the Epulario on microfilm.
Repeat---
Even if they don't have EEBO, they have the book on microfilm.
It's part of what was UMI Early English Books I.
It's based on titles found in Pollard & Redgrave, Short Title
Catalogue I.
The microfilm series began in 1938.
You are looking for:
Epulario, or The Italian banquet [microform] : wherein is shewed the
maner how to dresse and prepare all kind of flesh, foules or fishes. As
also how to make sauces, tartes, pies, &c. After the maner of all
countries. With an addition of many other profitable and necessary
things. Translated out of Italian into English. 1598.
Microfilm. Ann Arbor, Mich. : UMI, 1953. 1 microfilm reel ; 35
mm. (Early English books, 1475-1640; 539:8). s1953
That means it was filmed and released in 1953 and is on reel 539, item
number 8.
Most university and college libraries allow members of the general
public
to use the microfilm collections in the library. Many that won't allow
access
with printing for EEBO, will allow you come, read and print from
the microfilm. Call ahead and determine that they
have the collection. Find out what the reader-printer or reader scanners
need
in terms of coins or if they take credit cards. Hours? Parking?
Go and spend a day at it or part of day at the library. Trust me, it's a
relatively easy
way to get a copy made.
Johnnae
Sandragood at aol.com wrote:
> I've been doing some research for an upcoming competition. The entry is
> based on a translated text from Epulario. I'm trying to get my documentation in
> order and am having trouble finding better than tertiary (internet) sources.
> I know this book was reprinted in 1990 but I am having difficulty finding
> current information in my online searching.
>
> The only online versions of the complete text I've been able to locate are
> through places like the EEOB that are only accessible through partnering
> libraries, which usually only include college libraries. Not being
> a student or an alumni is making it harder.
>
> Do any of you have suggestions on my next step?
>
> Liz
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:40:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New Medieval Cookbook?
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, "mk-cooks at midrealm.org"
<mk-cooks at midrealm.org>
Elise Fleming wrote:
> Greetings! SCAtoday reports a new medieval cookbook and says: "
> The recipe books of Frederick II is a comparison between two period
> cookbooks The Meridionale and the Liber de coquina, both written in
> the 13th and 14th centuries." You can find the review of the
> material at:
> http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME03.YAM17103.html
>
> Alys Katharine
This actually isn't new. I did a post on her titles to SCA Cooks
on August 3, 2006--
August 3, 2006
http://www.webster.it/vai_libri-author_Martellotti+Anna-shelf_BIT-
Martellotti_Anna.html
I came across two titles by this author today-- Anna Martellotti.
One deals with foods related to Federico II in the 13th century.
The other with a translation of Arab recipes by Giambonino da Cremona
in the late 13th century.
Thought people might find them of interest.
Johnnae
_I ricettari di Federico II : dal "Meridionale" al "Liber de coquina"
review is here--
http://www.ext.upmc.fr/urfist/menestrel/cralimentation/Martellotti.pdf
also here
http://www.storiamedievale2.net/Rec/ricettari.htm
CULTURE: MIDDLE AGES - COOKBOOK ATTRIBUTED TO GOURMET EMPEROR FEDERICO II
Rome, Jan. 16th - (Adnkronos) - Emperor Federico II was also a
first-rate gourmet, a passionate connoisseur of the art of cooking. And
to his patronage we owe the writing up, between 1230 and 1250, of the
''Liber de coquina''. This is what is sustained by Anna Martellotti,
former German history professor at the University of Bari, in the essay
''I ricettari di Federico II'' [The recipe books of Federico II],
published by the Olschki publishing house.
The second is:
Il Liber de ferculis di Giambonino da Cremona : la gastronomia araba in
Occidente nella trattatistica dietetica
Review is in PPC 71
Anna Martellotti: Il Liber de ferculis di Giambonino de Cremona: Schena
Editore, Fasano, 2002: ISBN 88-8229-272-X: 420 pp., indexes, p/b,
L.44.000/Euro 22,72.
"In eleventh-century Baghdad, a physician compiled a medical
encyclopedia titled Minh?j al-Bay?n. Among its thousands of entries were
scores of recipes, soon to be excerpted and circulated on their own as a
cookbook. These doctor-approved recipes were plagiarized by several
later Arabic cookbooks, and there is much to be said about that.But what
followed was more surprising. In the late thirteenth century, 82 of the
recipes were translated into Latin by a certain Jamboninus of Cremona
under the title Liber deferculis et condimentis, and in the following
century the Latin was translated into German as P?ch von der Chosten.
Lately there has been an explosion of interest in the European versions,
culminating in the present study."
CHARLES PERRY
More about this at
http://www.olschki.it/Prosp/SP/2005/54422.pdf
It looks like it's 28 Euros. Plus shipping.
Johnnae
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:32:27 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fwd: Anyone seen this book?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Lilinah wrote:
> A friend of mine posted this to the west-cooks list and i thought
> that there might be someone here who knows about this:
>
>> The recipe books of Frederick II. From 'Meridionale' to 'Liber de
>> coquina' by Anna Martellotti, Published by Leo S. Olschki Editore in the
>> collection "Library of the Archivum Romanicum"
>>
>> Is it, as I fear, only available in Italian?
>>
>> 8)
>> Veronica
>> (looking at more info on Italian cooking!)
For some reason this book is being mentioned on various lists as being new!
It's not new at all. It came out in 2005 and was mentioned on the list a
year ago.
And yes you are going to have to be able to read Italian!
Johnnae
From my original post back in August 2006
> _I ricettari di Federico II : dal "Meridionale" al "Liber de coquina"
> review is here--
> http://www.ext.upmc.fr/urfist/menestrel/cralimentation/Martellotti.pdf
> also here
> http://www.storiamedievale2.net/Rec/ricettari.htm
>
> CULTURE: MIDDLE AGES - COOKBOOK ATTRIBUTED TO GOURMET EMPEROR FEDERICO II
> Rome, Jan. 16th - (Adnkronos) - Emperor Federico II was also a
> first-rate gourmet, a passionate connoisseur of the art of cooking. And
> to his patronage we owe the writing up, between 1230 and 1250, of the
> ''Liber de coquina''. This is what is sustained by Anna Martellotti,
> former German history professor at the University of Bari, in the essay
> ''I ricettari di Federico II'' [The recipe books of Federico II],
> published by the Olschki publishing house.
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:19:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Eleanor Fettiplace, was: Re: The purpose of
SCA-Cooks from Isabella de la Gryffin and a Culinary Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
There are two editions of Fettiplace. The one that is easiest to
find is the bad one. It is not
just what Eleanor Fettiplace wrote, but there are recipes added to it
for several generations
thereafter. And, unfortunately, Spurling doesn't date the different
recipes at all. She does
make mention of this in her foreward, but there is no way to know
which are the 1604 recipes and
which are not. The reason that I bring this up is that quite a few
years ago we had someone post
that she had found a period recipe for chocolate mousse. We thought
that she had been kidding, so
we asked her where she found said recipe. She said she found it in
Fettiplace. And it is there,
but it dates actually from the 18th century. If you have the multi-
volune edition, you can see
that it is from a later addition to Fettiplace. Unfortunately, the
single volume version doesn't
have this distinction and I hesitate to recommend this book to anyone
unless they understand that
there are many recipes in that book that are _not_ even remotely period.
Huette
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:07:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Eleanor Fettiplace, was: Re: The purpose of
SCA-Cooks from Isabella de la Gryffin and a Culinary Question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Helen Schultz wrote:
> I have the 1986 version of Eleanor Fettiplace (by Spurling)... is
> that a good one or a not so good one?? It is a single volume, so I
> guess the latter. <sigh>
>
> ~~Katarina Helene
The set that is just the recipes taken from the original is:
THE COMPLETE RECEIPT BOOK OF LADIE ELINOR FETTIPLACE<br> (Oxfordshire,
England 1604)
A 3-volume transcription of the complete original text of Elinor
Fettiplace?s manuscript recipe book. An index is included. Produced from
a transcription made by John Spurling, owner of the manuscript. Mostly
household recipes, some culinary. 68 pages. Stapled softcover booklet.
Import. Individual volumes available, please inquire. AVAILBILITY: The
complete 3-vol. set is currently unavailable, however individual volumes
from the set may be available, please contact Acanthus Books for
additional information.
*THE COMPLETE RECEIPT BOOK OF LADIE ELINOR FETTIPLACE (England 1604)*
$30.00
It's sold by Acanthus Books but apparently there's some supply issues at
the moment.
http://acanthus-books.stores.yahoo.net/index.html
Johnnae
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:56:04 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Eleanor Fettiplace, another source
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, Helen
Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com>
Ok Stuart Press and some of the associated pamphlets like the
Fetiplace set are also being listed as being available from
http://sykesutler.home.att.net/food.html
*The Complete Receipt Book of Ladie Elynor Fetiplace*: Late Tudor/early
Stuart. Never before published in full this is a 3 volume set
transcription of the whole original text. About 90% of the work is
household remedies from a country gentlewoman the remainder mainly
culinary. $36
Johnnae
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:05:31 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Accomplish'd Lady's Delight
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
The full title for the book in question I think must be:
The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving, physick, beautifying, and
cookery containing I. the art of preserving and candying fruits &
flowers ..., II. the physical cabinet, or, excellent receipts in physick
and chirurgery : together with some rare beautifying waters, to adorn
and add loveliness to the face and body : and also some new and
excellent secrets and experiments in the art of angling, 3. the compleat
cooks guide, or, directions for dressing all sorts of flesh, fowl, and
fish, both in the English and French mode .../, London : Printed for B.
Harris, and are to be sold at his shop ..., 1675.
382 pages for this one but that varies greatly among editions. Only 200
for a later edition. As Mistress Brighid noted EEBO lists 1675, 1684,
1696 as having been microfilmed and then scanned for their online
collection.
The English Short Title Catalogue lists editions for 1675, two different
editions for 1677, 1683, then in the 18th century
it lists 1706, 1719 and one as [1720].
Sometimes attributed to Hannah Woolley.
Seventeenth century editions have the preface signed: T. P.
Bibliographies vary as to wrote the book. Woolley was dead by the
time it appeared, but she is often credited as the book contains recipes
from earlier credited works by her. 18th century editions often appear
credited to T.P. A number of catalogues just list it safely as ANON. or
uncredited.
Given as the 1675 edition [London : Printed for B. Harris, and are to be
sold at his shop ..., 1675] is available on EEBO's Text Creation
Partnership where it can be downloaded
and keyword searched by academic audiences with access, do you suppose a
publisher would be interested in reprinting an edition of it now? I
presume of course that you must have spent considerable time retyping
out the book but given that EEBO-TCP already has it available in the
nice searchable version, I would think most people would like that
version.
Johnnae
jah at twcny.rr.com wrote:
> I took a quick look and I believe it is not the same book.
>
> So I will be sending in my manuscript for that book
> and the other book to my new publisher
> at the end of the week and see what happens!
>
> Jules/Mistress Catalina
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:48:59 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hannah's titles was Accomplish'd Lady's
Delight
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Although The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving is a compilation and probably not the work of Hannah Woolley or Wooley r Wolley, there are books by
her available. (Powells currently lists a third edition 1683 for $2200, should anyone want an antiquarian copy of The ALDelight.)
Prospect Books published another work credited to her.
Woolley, Hannah. The Gentlewomans Companion. Or, A Guide to the Female Sex.
Totnes, Devon, U.K.: Prospect Books, 2001. Hardcover. 269 pp. ISBN: 0_907325_99_8. [A Reprint of the complete text of the 1675 second edition. Also includes an Introduction by Caterina Albano, pp. 7_50; A Note on the Text by Tom Jaine, p. 6; and a Glossary by Tom Jaine, pp. 247_269.] My review appears in the MoAS newsletter in 2002.
It can be found at:
arts.atenveldt.com/Portals/arts/Newsletters/jul2002.pdf
Hannah, however, protested in another volume that she didn't write the
Gentlewoman's Companion.
It's all explained in the excellent introduction written by Caterina
Albano.
Amazon lists The Queen-like Closet or Rich Cabinet * *as an
IndyPublish.com publication in hardcover for
prices ranging from $34 to $46 or as a paperback for $27.99. Or it's
available in a BiblioBazaar paperback in either large print
or regular print at less than $17.00. You can even take a look at the
text by searching inside the book
at Amazon.
BiblioBazaar is offering a list of their culinary reprints at
http://www.bibliobazaar.com/subcat_booklist.php?cat_id=218 but they
fail to list The Queen-like Closet
or Moxon's *English Housewifery *under cookbooks.
Johnnae
Johnna wrote 10/16/2007 7:05 AM snipped
> The full title for the book in question I think must be:
>
> The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving, physick,
> beautifying, and cookery
>
> Bibliographies vary as to wrote the book. Woolley was dead by the
> time it appeared, but she is often credited as the book contains recipes
> from earlier credited works by her. 18th century editions often appear
> credited to T.P. A number of catalogues just list it safely as
> ANON. or uncredited.
>
> Johnnae
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:47:20 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fettiplace was Sweet Batatas Redux
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
People should be aware that that the household manuscript by Fettiplace
was not published before Spurling did her selected
version in 1986. The complete manuscript in three volumes wasn't
published until Stuart Press released it in 3 volumes in the 1990's.
Saying it was published after her death in 1647 makes it sound like the
book was published in the late 1640's or 1650's and not the 1990's.
Johnnae
> Note: Elinor Fettiplace was born in 1570 and began writing her cookbook in
> 1604. The manuscript was published after her death in 1647. The sweet
> potato recipes here are probably Elizabethan.
>
> These are both from Fettiplace
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 20:51:58 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Opusculum de Saporibus was Old French Ailliee
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Opusculum de Saporibus is up on Thomas Gloning's website
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/sapor.htm
Johnnae
Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> As does, I believe, Opusculum de Saporibus (which, IIRC,
> is roughly contemporary to the Enseignements, fairly early by medieval
> cookbook standards).
>
> Adamantius
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 07:39:11 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translations - re Old French Ailliee or
whatver
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
And in my case I was just supplying a place to find what
Master A asked for when on 5/1 at 7:33 PM
"Anybody gots a copy of "Opusculum de Saporibus" handy??? I could have
sworn I had a pdf, but it looks like I may have to go ransacking
through the stacks of smudgy photocopies..."
Adamantius
This version that Thomas provides is online and available.
Many of us probably have paper copies of "A Mediaeval Sauce-Book" by Lynn Thorndike
Speculum, Vol. 9, No. 2 (Apr., 1934), pp. 183-190. That version is on JSTOR now.
There's another version or paper of course:
Scully, Terence. "The *Opusculum de Saporibus* of Magninus
Mediolanensis." Medium Aevum, v. 54, no. 2, 1986: p. 178-207.
but again it isn't freely online yet. I can't provide a link to that one
or the Lynn Thorndike paper.
Johnnae
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 07:59:47 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Translations - re Old French Ailliee or
whatver
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On May 2, 2008, at 7:39 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> And in my case I was just supplying a place to find what
> Master A asked for when on 5/1 at 7:33 PM
>
> "Anybody gots a copy of "Opusculum de Saporibus" handy??? I could have
> sworn I had a pdf, but it looks like I may have to go ransacking
> through the stacks of smudgy photocopies..."
>
> Adamantius
>
> This version that Thomas provides is online and available.
Warning: you better be able to read Latin.
> Many of us probably have paper copies of "A Mediaeval Sauce-Book" by
> Lynn Thorndike
> Speculum, Vol. 9, No. 2 (Apr., 1934), pp. 183-190. That version is on
> JSTOR now.
Yes, that's what I've got. It includes a copy of the text and, I
think, the chapter from de Villanova's Regimen Sanitatis on sauces for
tempering health issues connected to diet, believed by many to be
essentially the same text. No translation, but an odd discussion that
resembles a sportscaster's play-by-play.
"And then he says..."
But it's nice to have the Latin text available, at least.
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 18:03:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] the book, was ... now: Anonimo Meridionale
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
<<< The Anonimo Meridionale manuscripts can be located in the book:
Bostrom, Ingemar ed. Due libri di cucina. Stockholm : Almqvist &
Wiksell, 1985. (Acta Universitatis Stockholmensis*)
*The manuscripts are actually now owned by the University of Stockholm
which is why two Italian manuscripts were published in Sweden and not in Italy.
Does anyone else own the actual book?
Johnnae >>>
On page VI of the book, it is stated, that the manuscripts then were part of a private collection in Stockholm ("... e fa parte di una collezione privata di Stoccolma.").
Today, they are owned by the "Fondation B.IN.G. Bibliotheque Internationale de Gastronomie" in Lugano (Suisse). See their website, where "Anonimo Meridionale" is mentioned:
http://www.fondationbing.org/italiano/Biblioteca.htm
They have pretty things.
(The homepage in English is here: http://www.fondationbing.org/inglese/Home.htm)
E.
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 18:10:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Anonimo Meridionale
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
To correct myself. Anonimo Meridionale is _one_ manuscript with two parts (Libro A, Libro B).
E.
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:21:47 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cookbooks for Beginners
To: edoard at medievalcookery.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
And if you are doing Martino there's also the very nice CD-rom edition
http://www.octavo.com/editions/mrtlac/
Martino: Coquinaria (Edition, 1 CD) 1-891788-83-3
Commentary by Gillian Riley,
- Foreword by Alice Waters of Chez Panisse
- Essay: Maestro Martino?s Cookery Book and Its Manuscripts, by Bruno
Laurioux
Searchable, cross-linked English translation of the Italian text by
Gillian Riley
- Note on the calligraphy by Paul Shaw
- Magnify up to 400%
It's nice to have both in one's collection and of course the true
completist will also want Claudio Benporat's works that feature Martino too. Those can be purchased and shipped in from Italy.
Johnnae
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:20:19 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cookbooks for Beginners
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I jumped ahead on this thread (good thing) because I was about to say
EXACTLY the same thing.
If you are doing Martino corpus work get the CD-rom.
The California Press translation is not as good as Riley's (although
both make some interesting choices) and the extras on the CD are
FANTASTIC!
The introduction (which is the best part) to the Parzen translation
can be found on the web here http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/
9423/9423.intro.php
As Johnnae mentions below Benporat for the true completist as well as
the various De Honestas (last five books based on Martino), the
Italian and Englsih versions of the Epulario and the Vatican and Riva
del Guarde manuscripts on microfilm! :) OK so maybe that is going a
bit to far. The Neapolitan is a must have but as has been mentioned
before is REALLY badly organized.
There are also two other manuscripts related to Martino in England,
one at the British Library and one Sheffield, I will be reviewing
both this fall.
Eduardo
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:40:42 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tudor Cook Recipes in PDF
To: "mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>,
"sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Greetings! Hampton Court has done a small booklet ("The Taste of Fire") about the kitchens with some historic recipes in it. You can find two recipes - one for buknade and one for perre - at http://www.hrp.org.uk/Resources/tudorcookeryrecipes.pdf . It's a nice little booklet (48 pages) and cost me 4.99 pounds which is about $10 US. It's quite a nice, historically-based work with recipes and photos scattered throughout. You might like to see the two recipes they've put online.
Alys Katharine
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:41:43 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Book of Sent Sovi?: Medieval recipes from
Catalonia
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
The Book of Sent Sovi?: Medieval recipes from Catalonia
description of the book is here:
http://www.boydell.co.uk/55661640.HTM
It was announced for March, then set for June and has now been pushed back
until fall.
**Publication date: 18/Sep/2008
Price: 34.95 USD / 16.99 GBP
So another one for Autumn.
Johnnae
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:54:16 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Book of Sent Sovi?: Medieval recipes from
Catalonia
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
My copy of The Book of Sent Sovi?: Medieval Recipes from Catalonia
arrived today. Looks interesting, although I have to note that I noticed
at once that it's one of these books that lacks an index. No way to quickly
determine which ingredients are in which of the LXII recipes or the 16
recipes included in the Appendix.
Each original recipe gets it own page; the facing page on the right hand
side of the text is the English translation. There's enough white space
on most pages to allow for personal annotations or notes.
Johnnae
Johnna wrote on 7/16/2008
<<< The Book of Sent Sovi?: Medieval recipes from Catalonia
description of the book is here:
http://www.boydell.co.uk/55661640.HTM
It was announced for March, then set for June and has now been pushed
back until fall.
**Publication date: 18/Sep/2008
Price: 34.95 USD / 16.99 GBP
So another one for Autumn.
Johnnae >>>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:12:47 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] book question
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Gwen asked about Ken Albala's "Cooking in Europe". My personal impression
is that it's a fairly general, for-non-experienced-cooks book. He gives a
lot of recipes from medieval cookery texts, either English translations or
the English text. There are no modern interpretations of the recipes but
he does do an explanation of what he thinks is happening in the recipe.
The first eight pages comprise a list of the recipes. Then there are eight
pages listing the recipes by country and time (Middle Ages, Renaissance,
Late Renaissance and Elizabethan Era. There is one sheet (two page/sides)
of "Recipes for Special Occasions" which includes the ever-popular roasted
cat recipe. Next come 6 pages/sides of a glossary for terms such as
trencher, verjuice, soffrito, comfits, leach... you get the idea. Then
follow 8 pages of series foreword, acknowledgement and preface. The
Introduction, which is the teaching/explantory part of the book comprises
pages 1-28, covering topics such as safety, finding spices, ovens, finding
a recipe, meal structure, sauces, meat, tableware, unfamiliar flavors and
practices... The recipes start on page 29 and go to page 135.
So, if you are a beginner or not terribly experienced, you will probably
glean quite a bit. If you are experienced with medieval cookery, it might
be nice to have just to say you have it and share it with someone, but you
might not get a lot from it unless his explanations of certain recipes
fills your knowledge gap.
Alys K.
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:25:08 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] book question
To: tgrcat2001 at yahoo.com, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
This title fits in with a series of books that covers ancient through
modern cookery.
It's a good set for libraries and schools, less valuable perhaps for the
committed SCA cook.
You might like another Greenwood title more:
Morton, Mark and Andrew Coppolino. *Cooking with Shakespeare*. Westport,
CT: Greenwood Press, 2008. Series: Feasting with Fiction. 320 pp.
I have a review in process on that one. Not published yet.
Johnnae
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:03:47 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Noble Boke of Cokery of 2007 was Chawettys
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
It's also worth noting that the "A Noble Boke of Cokery" available for
sale from http://tudorcook.blogspot.com/ is not the same text as the "A
Noble Boke off Cookry" available online for free at
http://www.medievalcookery.com/etexts.html
The free, online text ("A Noble Boke off Cookry") is a transcription of
a single 15th century manuscript, as presented in a book published in
1882 by Robina Napier.
- Doc
-------- Original Message --------
From: Johnna Holloway
Ah, how to work with this A Noble Boke of Cokery.
Here are some tips:
First,
Read the extensive forward in the front of the
book where Richard explains about the text and unusual spellings and things
like i for j, v for u, vv instead of w, etc.
What the book is?
Fitch's A Noble Boke of Cokery is a compilation of recipes from
a number of sources.
The secret or what you aren't being told is that the recipes appear in
other books or even on the web. It would have
been nice had A Noble Boke of Cokery actually mentioned someplace
where these recipes came from, but no matter here's your cheat sheet.
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:43:21 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A Noble Boke of Cokery of 2007 was Chawettys
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
They could not have made it anymore complicated, could they?
No sources listed and the title confuses. One reason to call it
Fitch's A Noble Boke of Cokery
or
A Noble Boke of Cokery of 2007, I guess.
I thought last year that they should named this complied book something like
Receipts of Cookry or At the Prince's Table or The Medieval Table.
Napier's book from the 1880's is based on the Holkham MSS 674. Napier
didn't do a very good job
when she copied the book from the original mss. There are several recipes
missing as well as other problems. Constance Hieatt has done several articles
that compare this manuscript to the Pynson volume of 1500.
One of those is:
Sources of, and Analogues to, the Noble Boke of Cokery by Constance B. Hieatt
/Journal of the Early Book Society for the Study of Manuscripts and
Printing History. /Volume 3 (2000)
Edited by Martha Driver, Pace University.
We also mention and include Napier, of course, in the Concordance..
Believe it or not, I can do the comparisons in house now between
Napier, Holkham and Pynson volumes because I own copies of all three.
One is on CD, one is on microfilm, and one is the actual book. We won't
mention the cost or how long it took to find and get them here;
let's just say that obsessions can cost $$$. I can't wait until the new
facsimile two volumes Pynson is finally out. That will be another huge expenditure, I'm sure.
Johnnae
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:10:35 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] UC Titles was The Eminent Maestro Martino of
Como
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Antonia asked:
Johnna Holloway wrote:
Zaouali, Lilia
Medieval Cuisine of the Islamic World
A Concise History with 174 Recipes
California Studies in Food and Culture, 18
$24.95 hardcover, $15.95 hardcover on sale
Does anyone know whether this one is worth having?
-------------------------
Well... Depends on what you want to do with the recipes.
It has recipes translated into English that have never been
translated before, so it is useful for that.
- 52 from al-Fadalat al-Khiwan by ibn Razin al-Tujibi from
al-Andaluz, dated 1230
- 36 from Kanz al-Fawaid fitanwi al-mawaid from 13th C. Egypt
- 29 from the Kitab al-Wusla ila al-Habib from 13th C. Syria
- And 24 from ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's compendium of 9th & 10th C recipes
(the whole book was published around the same time as Zaouali's,
translated by Nawal Nasrallah, but it costs around $200 US - however
Nasrallah's book is a work of true scholarship)
It has a section in the back with modern North African recipes (which
the author thinks show culinary continuity) and many are for dishes
in none of my other Moroccan and North African cookbooks. Obviously
not relevant to the SCA, but if you like Maghribi food, like i do...
The introductory matter is useful if one does not have other books,
like "Medieval Arab Cookery", and it does have some information not
in M*A*C.
But it is not a work of scholarship like Nasrallah's. The recipes
appear to have been selected somewhat at random. Since they have been
wrested from their original manuscripts they lack context. Instead we
have recipes from 4 books, from 2 centuries, and from 4 different
cultures. There's no way to compare the books to see how they may be
similar and how they differ from one another. This makes trying to
study the changes in cuisines in the Arabic speaking world rather
difficult.
I bought it for full price last winter and i think it is worth $25.
But i also find it extremely frustrating for the reasons above, and i
hope that the complete texts of the three 13th C. books are
evenutally translated and published.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forthcoming titles Fall 2008 LONG
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
As promised sometime back here's a list of some forthcoming
fall 08- winter 09
titles that might be of interest to readers of this list.
They cover a full range of topics.
I've included details, descriptions or links where I have them.
A number of the lists I used didn't record prices possibly because
they were not yet set.
Johnnae
-----------------
Food historian Ivan Day has a new book coming out. It's titled:
COOKING IN EUROPE 1650-1850
Publication Date - 11th November 2008
http://www.historicfood.com/events.htm
Or you can check out the book also at
http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/GR4624.aspx
-------
There are new editions appearing:
These include a new edition of Roman Cookery: Ancient Recipes for
Modern Kitchens (Paperback) by Mark Grant
coming in November. *Paperback:* 192 pages
Serif Publishing; 2 Rev Upd edition (November 15, 2008)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:12:24 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Llibre de totes maneres de confits / Llibre
de Sent Sov?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:07 PM, emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> wrote:
<<< http://publicacions.iec.cat/repository/pdf/00000015/00000029.pdf
Looks like a revised / new edition
Llibre de Sent Sov? / Llibre de totes maneres de potatges de menjar, a cura
de Rudolf GREWE (?). Edici? revisada per Amadeu J. SOBERANAS i Joan SANTANACH. Llibre de totes maneres de confits, edici? cr?tica de Joan SANTANACH I SU?OL. Barcelona, Barcino (Els Nostres Cl?ssics, B 22), 2003, 327 pp. ISBN 84-7226-706-7.
ESZ >>>
It is. I had it on pre-order with Amazon, and had to wait a very long time
as it didn't come out as originally scheduled. I have it now and, though I
haven't had a chance to look at it closely, it looks to be good. I do know
Joan Santanach's work from a previous publication on Italian cooking, and
that one was superb!
Kiri
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:50:03 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Llibre de totes maneres de confits / Llibre
de Sent Sov?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
What Freda was looking at--
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/confits.htm
is the "*Libre de totes maneres de confits*". Un tratado manual
cuatrocentista de arte de dulcer?a. In: Bolet?n de la Real Academia de
Buenas Letras de Barcelona 19 (1946) 97-134.
Vincent Cuenca was working on a
translation of this several years back according to the website at
http://www.thousandeggs.com/msproj.html
As far as I can determine the new book titled in English The Book of
Sent Sovi does not include Llibre de totes maneres de confits or the MS
68 of the Library of the University of Barcelona. The 2003 or 2004
*Llibre de sent sov? ; Llibre de totes maneres de potatges de menjar /*
book edited by Grewe did include Llibre de totes maneres de confits,
edici? cr?tica de Joan SANTANACH I SU?OL.It was 327 pages and according
to the cataloguing also included "Llibre de totes maneres de potatges de
menjar.; 2004.; Llibre de totes maneres de confits.; 2004."
This 2008 edition in English is based upon a 2006 work published in
Barcelona and it seems to have left it out. It's only 232
pages and many pages are full of white space.*
Johnnae*
emilio szabo wrote:
http://publicacions.iec.cat/repository/pdf/00000015/00000029.pdf
Looks like a revised / new edition
Llibre de Sent Sov? / Llibre de totes maneres de potatges de menjar, a cura de Rudolf GREWE (?). Edici? revisada per Amadeu J. SOBERANAS i Joan SANTANACH. Llibre de totes maneres de confits, edici? cr?tica de Joan SANTANACH I SU?OL. Barcelona, Barcino (Els Nostres Cl?ssics, B 22), 2003, 327 pp. ISBN 84-7226-706-7.
ESZ >>>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:04:07 -0400
From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New Book on Maya Cooking- Gene Anderson
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
-----Original Message-----
Dear Authentic Cooks: I have just brought out a book, MAYALAND
CUISINE, about the traditional cooking of the Maya areas of
Mexico--the Yucatan Peninsula plus the states of Chiapas and Tabasco.
The recipes are all things I collected myself from people there or
translated from obscure local cookbooks (mostly pamphlets of very
limited circulation). The recipes are all traditional--which sometimes
means they go back 2000 years and sometimes only 100, so use with
caution if you want to be authentically pre-1700! > > > > > > >
This looks like a cool book. It does seem to be a 'traditional' cookery
book rather than a book to rely on for discerning actual Mayan food
traditions during the time of the Mayan Empire rise and fall. It should be
able to familiarize us with what their cookery became, and build some
beginning foundation for inferences . . . but NOT be a direct reference for
period Mayan cookery. Cool book for what it proclaims to be . . . wolf in
sheeps clothing when people start dragging it out as documentation. Several
books have already been b at stardized that way in the last 10 years.
I hope this one is appreciated for what it is and not made to fit into the
'primary resource' (or even secondary) category.
Call me a cynic,
niccolo difrancesco
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 22:25:58 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "The Medieval Kitchen"
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
We've discussed it here, but the current archives don't cover the period.
It's a good reference work with transcriptions and translations of original
recipes and adaptations. In some cases, the adaptations don't precisely
follow the original recipe, but a careful reading will show you where they
differ. I use my copy fairly often and I've given a couple as gifts.
Bear
<<< A friend showed me her copy of "The Medieval Kitchen" at our business
meeting this evening. I *think* I remember it being discussed here but can't
find any mention of it in the archives using "The Medieval Kitchen" in the
search function.
Help?
Hrothny >>>
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:39:35 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "The Medieval Kitchen"
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
I did find it mentioned and recommended in the archives so we have
discussed it in the last two years.
My entry from the article I did for Tournaments Illuminated lists it as
Redon, Odile, Francoise Sabban, and Silvano Serventi. /The Medieval
Kitchen/. /Recipes from France and Italy./ Chicago: University of
Chicago, 1998. French edition was /Gastronomie au Moyen/ /Age/, 1991;
German was /Die Kochkunst des Mittelalters./ The American edition is
translated by Edward Schneider. Available in paperback. 150 14^th and
15^th century recipes. A favorite of many society cooks.
It has a wide variety of recipes and I think that people find it
valuable because there's enough variety from which to construct an
entire feast. Note that it contains just Italian and French recipes. It
doesn't cover England or Spain for example. Good bibliography. The
original recipes are also included in a separate section.
I should mention that Sabban and Serventi went on and did two more
volumes that covered the Renaissance and the 17th century, but those
volumes have never
been translated into English. I did locate and purchase the French
editions some years back.
The American volume by the University of Chicago Press is still in
print. I think Devra carries it, so you could get it from her.
Johnnae
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 11:43:49 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "The Medieval Kitchen"
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I'm pretty certain it is still in print in paperback. What went out
of print was the hard cover edition.
I think "The Medieval Kitchen" is a wonderful book. I would recommend
it without hesitation to the beginning historical cook and even to
more experienced cooks for a few reasons.
First, while it has many recipes we can find in other sources, it
also has recipes nowhere else available in English.
Second, the introductory matter is excellent for the beginning
historical cook, and even for the intermediate cook who may not have
looked into all the issues covered.
Third, it mostly focuses on Mediterranean cuisines (well, Paris is
not in the Mediterranean, but anyway...), and, well, Mediterranean
cuisines are the best cuisines, other than that Arabic-language
corpus (ok, ok, this is my personal bias and not objective :-) It was
the first Medieval cookbook i bought after i joined the SCA.
The modern versions of the recipes are almost uniformly quite tasty,
if not always 100 per cent "period", but they're good starters for
beginning historical cooks. I don't use them, however, preferring to
work from the original recipe.
My biggest frustration with the book is that the recipes in their
original languages are in the waaaaay back of the book and they're in
a medieval-oid typeface. That is, my two biggest frustrations with
the book are...
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:34:57 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Anna Selby's Food through the Ages
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
My back-ordered copy of Anna Selby's
Food Through the Ages. From Stuffed Dormice to Pineapple
Hedgehogs came this afternoon.[www.pen-and-sword.co.uk]
http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=1660
It's an odd book to say the least.
Of interest to people on this list might be the
"Acknowledgements" which thank Daniel Myers and his website
medievalcookery.com. Besides medievalcookery.com, the bibliography
mentions Thomas Gloning's website and www.davidfriedman.com's
Le Menagier. She also mentions that she got the Roman recipes
from Carnegie Mellon University's CS department
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/ant-rom-coll.html
She seems to have taken the recipes off the web and not
out of actual books for the most part. It only lists 18 books in the
bibliography and doesn't include such classics as C. Anne Wilson
or any of the Prospect Press volumes.
Johnna, playing librarian
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:36:43 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Scappi information was OMG! SCAPPI IS
HERE!!!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Heleen Greenwald wrote:
> What is SCAPPI?
Only the beginning and end all of Renaissance Italian cookery books.
Bartolomeo Scappi (c. 1500-1577) was the cook for several Cardinals and
later became the personal cook for two Popes. Unlike other cooks, he
actually compiled his own cookbook, which just happens to be "the
largest cookery treatise of the period to instruct an apprentice on the
full craft of fine cuisine, its methods, ingredients, and recipes.
Accompanying his book was a set of unique and precious engravings that
show the ideal kitchen of his day, its operations and myriad utensils,
and are exquisitely reproduced in this volume."
If you've done any work with kitchen images you've seen those illustrations.
The book has more than one thousand recipes along with menus that
comprise up to a hundred dishes. It's this huge source of intriguing
recipes. Many of us bought the Forni volume
in facsimile and have used that volume, but price has made that option
unattractive.
https://www.fornieditore.com/flex/FixedPages/IT/ShowOpera.php/L/EN/IDMateria/FF/IDArgomento/-1/SKU/2292%203
To get a taste of what the book offers, see
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/
Mistress Helewyse fell in love with the volume and over the past few
years has done a number of translations using the recipes and posted
them on her website.
The major problem for most people is that the work was never translated
into English... until now. Finally Professor Terence Scully has
completed the first English translation of the work. "His aim is to make
the recipes and the broad experience of this sophisticated papal cook
accessible to a modern English audience interested in the culinary
expertise and gastronomic refinement within the most civilized niche of
Renaissance society."
Johnnae
<the end>