cookbooks4-msg - 1/23/09

Reviews of cookbooks with medieval recipes posted between June 1999 and June 2000.

NOTE: See also the files: cookbooks-msg, cookbooks2-msg, cookbooks3-msg, cookbooks5-msg, cooking-bib, cookbooks-bib, cookbooks2-bib, cookbooks-SCA-msg, cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cb-novices-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

[See cookbooks-msg for cookbook review messages posted before September
   1995. See cookbooks2-msg for reviews posted between September 1995 and
   November 1997]

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:44:30 +0200
From: "ana l. valdes" <agora at algonet.se>
Subject: SC - primary sources

I come across two really wonderful books and I wonder if someone of the
list know them and can tell me if they are as good as I think they are.
One of them its written by Michele Savonarola, the italian humanist and
doctor and the title is "Libreto de tutte le cosse che si magnano;
un`opera di dietetica del sec XV". Its edited by the university in
Stockholm and curated and edited by a scholar named Jane Nystedt. He was
the oncle of Girolamo Savonarola, the famous priest. This work is a
complete treaty about vegetables, meat and fishes and I found this book
really fascinating.
The other one is a Spanish manuscript from 1593, written by Rodrigo de
Zayas, and discovered by a bookseller in London 1938.
I have the French version, "Mes Secrets à Florence au temps des Médicis
1593", annotated by Stefano Francesco di Romolo Rosselli.
Are they good enough to be trusted as "primary sources"?
Mylord Ras, lord Stefan, messire Adamantius, messire Cariadoc, are these
books "reliable"?
(I am going to use some of their recipes about cooking methods of that
time, thats I need their "validation".
Yours in Seeking the Truth
Ana L. Valdés


Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:58:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Old Cookery Texts: Bancroft Library (Long)

While in San Francisco, I found this book in a used book store.  Some
of the books listed below are "old friends", having been put into the
popular press, so to speak.  But others were works I had never heard
of.  In general, I have only copied the information on books within the
SCA period, but I did include #1 because of our relatively recent
discussion of cat as food.  Because of the limitations of my computer,
I have not included the umlaut on German words, but would be glad to
inform anyone where they are.  Also, if anyone is interested, I would
be glad to list the full name of the references that are only given by
abbreviations.

Questions:  Do libraries such as the Bancroft copy these materials for
dissemination?  Do they web any of them?

Alys Katharine
********

_One Hundred Sixteen Uncommon Books on Food & Drink_, From the
Distinguished Collection on Gastronomy of Marcus Crahan, published at
Berkeley by The Friends of The Bancroft Library, 1975.

1.  Altamiras, Juan.  Nuevo arte de Cocina, Sacado de la Escuela de la
Experiencia Economica, Madrid, Joseph Garcia Lanza, 1756.   No copy
cited by any gastronomic bibliographer.  "The author stresses great
cleanliness on the part of the cook, and writes that giving stew meat
is cheating the master, like serving cat instead of hare."

4.  Apicius.  Appicius Culinarius.   Mediolani, Guilermus le Signerre,
1498...

5. Argote de Molina.  Gonzalo (1549-1596?).  Libro, de la Monteria, que
Mando Escrivir el Muiy Alto y Muy Poderoso Ray Don Alonso de Castilla,
y de Leon, Vltimo Desde Nombre.  Acrecentado por Gonzalo Argote de
Molina.  Sevilla, Andrea Pescioni, 1532.  (Small folio, 6, 25 (i.e. 23)
(1), 91 f., much misnumbered.  Ex Libris William Stirling-Maxwell;
Thomas W. Streeter copy.   "There are thirty-seven plates (some used
more than once).  Many hunting sports are included, such as lion and
tiger hunting, ostrich huntin in Peru, pig-sticking and bullfighting in
the ampitheater.  Schewerd, page 44 and plate 97, describes this book
about hunting as 'the earliest Spanish treatise on the subject,' and
the edition as the first recorded.  He agrees with Gutierrez de la Vega
(Bibioteca Venatoria) in attributing the work to King Alfonso XI."

6.  Arnaldus de Villanova (d. 1313?).  Hie nach Volget ein Loblich
Tractat eins Furneemen Doctors der Ertzney mitt namen Arnoldi de Nova
Villa der ein Kunigs vo Frankrich Gewesen ist.  Diser Tractat Haltet
inn von Bereitung vn Bruchung der Wein zu Gesuntheit der Menschen.
Wellisches Buchlin der Wilham vo Hirnkofen...von Latin zu Teutsch
Transferiet...Strassburg, Martin Schott, 1484.  (Small folio, (11) f.,
lacks initial blank, bound in new limp vellum.  Hain 1809; GKW 9 copies
only; BMC I: no copy in America; Goff A-1082, College of Physicians of
Philadelphia.  Ex Libris Harry Schraemli.  "The subjects treated
include wine making and the therapeutic use of wine."

8.  Athenaeus, of Naucratis (fl. Third Century).  Athenaevs
(Deipnosophistou.  Libri XV.  "Banquet des Savants.") (In Greek
characters)  (Venetiis, Apvd Aldum, et Andream Socervm, 1514).  Large
folio, 38, (2), 294 (2)p., contemporary vellum binding enclosed in a
chamois lined chemise, itself encased in a half Niger, chamois lined
folding case.  Panzer VIII, 421, no. 689; Renouard, 1834, p. 67-68.
Proctor 12837.  "The Marcus Musurus version from the parchement
manuscript (A), brought by Aurispa from Constantinople in 1423.  That
manuscript is now lost.  The book is a symposium held by 21 artists,
writers, musicians and surgeons, disculling all things which, according
to Greek custom, shoule adorn a banquet.  The names of the most famous
gastronomists and of the most celebrated cooks are recorded.  The
virtues and qualities of wines are the subjects of long discourses.
Table ornament and decoration are also treated."

9. Augustinus, Aurelius, Saint, Bishop of Hippo (354-430).  Incipit
Liber Sancti Augustini de Anima et Spiritv...De Ebrietate...De Vanitate
Saeculi...De Vita Christiana...Ad Virgines de Ebrietate et de
Sobrietate... (Lauingen, Typographus Augustini de Consensu
Evangelistarum, 1472).  4*, (148) p., vellum binding, in a red Niger
solander case by Marcus Crahan.  Goff A-1224, 8 copies, this being the
eighth.  The BM and Huntington copies are defective.  "The first of two
books by an unknown printer in Bavaria, the second consisting of two
leaves.  The two tracts on sobriety and drunkenness are interesting for
the study of ancient medicine.  The designation of the author as
Augustine of Hippo is generally questioned."

10.  Averroes (1126-1198).  Collectaneorvm de re Medica...Sectiones
tres. I. De Sanitatis Functionibus, et Aristot. & Galeno. II. De
Sanitate Tuenda, ex Galeno.  III. De Curandis Morbis.  Lugdvni, Seb.
Gryphivm, 1537.  4*, (72) f. vellum binding.  Wellcome I. 568 (lacks
last leaf), not in Osler, Cushing or Waller.  "The first edition of
three medical treatises by the great medieval philosopher, the last of
the great Arab physicians.  The translator and editor of the present
volume, Jean Baptiste Bruyerin, a nephey of Symphorien Champier, was
physician to Henri II of France."

11.  Bacci, Andrea (d. 1600).  De Natvrali Vinorvm Historia.  De Vinis
Italiae, et de Conuiuijs Antiquorum.  Libri Septem... Romae, Nicholai
Mutis, 1596.  Folio, (26), 370, (1) p., vellum binding.  "This is the
very rare first issue unknown to all bibliographers excepting De Bure
(Bibliotheque Instructive).  The author was physician to Pope Sixtus V,
and Professor of Medicine at Rome.

15.  Bavaria.  Bairische Lanndtsordnung.  1553.  Ingolstadt (A.
Weissenhorn) 1553.  Folio, 197 f., (39) p., 19th century boards.
STC-German 71; SBG 164, who notes "how to deal with the habitual
drunkard."  "The engraved title depicts Albrecht V of Bavaria
surrounded by courtiers.  There are woodcut crests to each subheading,
six double page woodcuts of fish representing the legal size of various
fish that may be caught, handsome initial letters, text in red and
black throughout, and a two page holographic extract at the end in an
early hand.  This constitutes an all-encompassing list of regulations
for beer, brandy, woodmen, hunters, fishermen and all craftsmen, with a
register for each part.  It is the masterwork of the Weissenhorn
Office."

17.  Belon, Pierre (1517?-1564).  La Nature and Diuersite' des
Poissons, auec leurs Pourtraicts, Representez au Plus Pres du
Naturel... Paris, Charles Estienne, 1555.  Oblong 8*, (37) 448 p.,
vellum binding.  Ex Libris William Beebe.  "This is the first French
edition of a work first published in Latin, in Paris, two years
earlier.  Belon is looked upon as the founder of modern ichthyology,
and as one of the first workers in the science of comparative anatomy.
The work contains 189 woodcuts."

18.  Berners, Juliana, Dame (b. 1338?) supposed author.  A Treatyse of
Fysshynge wyth an Angle by Dame Juliana Berners:  Being a Facsimile
Reproduction of the first book on the Subject of Fishing Printed in
England by Wynkyn de Worde at Westminster in 1496.  With an
Introductory by Rev. M. G. Watkins, M.A.  London, Elliot Stock, 1880.
Folio, xiv p., facsimile (23) p., printed on vellum, bound in dark
green levant morocco, with blind tooling in the panels, floral and
other tools, on sides, t.e.g. Bookplate of the Earl of Derby; from
Knowsley Hall.  "There is said to be only one copy on record of the
original of this book, whose contents were freely sampled by Walton,
Burton and others who followed the authoress' philosophy of the
gentility of the angler, and of the moral as well as the physical
benefits of fishing."

24.  Brunschwyg, Hieronymus (ca. 1450-ca. 1512).  Medicinarius.  Das
Buch der Gesundheit.  Liber de Arte Distillandi Simplicia et Composita.
 Das nuv Buch d'Rechte Kunst zu Distilliere.  Ouch vo Marsilio Ficino
vn anderer Hochberopmter (sic) Artzee naturlich vn gute Kunste zu
behalte den gesunde Leib vnd zu Vertryben die Kranckheit mit Erlengerug
des Lebens...(Strassburg, Johanne Grueninger, 1505).  Large 8*, 130 f.,
blind stamped vellum over oaken boards.  "The text of this first
edition is rubricated throughout, and there are some decorated letters.
 There are 256 plates of stills, herbs, and other plants and objects,
many hand colored.  Bound in before the text are four leaves in
manuscript; at the end there are 94 manuscript folios, dated 1604, with
6 folios following, in another hand.  (The text, in medieval German,
has not been translated, but it has been suggested that this manuscript
may be more valuable than the book itself.)  Inserted loosely is a 10
page index of plant names for Brunschwyg's Liber de Arte Destillande
(1500), in recent script."

25.  Bussato, Marco.  Giardino di Agricoltvra di Marco Bvssato da
Ravenna...Venice, Appresso Giouanni Fiorina, 1592.  4*, (8) p., 53 f.,
(3) p., bound in half vellum, marbled sides.  Brunet I, 1419; SBB II,
117 cites the third edition of 1599; L 76 cites the edition of Venice,
1612.  Not in B, Ma., Schr. or Westb.  "This first edition has 20 large
woodcuts, engraved chapter headings and initial letters, and a calendar
of months, each with an engraved scene appropriate to the seasons.  A
beautiful book of vines and fruit trees, and evidently quite rare."

26.  Butler, Charles (1560-1647).  The Feminine Monarchie: or the
Historie of Bees....London, Iohn Haviland for Roger Iackson, 1623.  4*,
(190) p., 3/4 morocco, marbled sides, top edges gilt.  STC 4193, two
copies only, Library of Congress and Harvard.  None in England, more
rare than the first edition of 1609.  Ex Libris Sir John Stainer, with
a note in his hand.  "The frontispiece bee-hive is not unlike
Christopher Wren's transparent hive.  There are twelve text figures, a
sound review of the history and management of bees, with recipes of
waxes, salves, mead, metheglin and hyssop, but most important is 'The
Madrigal of the Bees,' set to triple-time music on four pages to be
read from above and below.  This second edition is the first printing
to show the musical scores.  With the third edition the author, who was
a philogist, adopted phonetic spelling."

28.  Castellano, Petro.  Preophagi'a (In Greek characters) Sive de Esv
Carnium, Libri IV....Antverpiae, Hieronymi Verdvssii, 1626.  8*, (8),
296 p., contemporary vellum binding.  V 153.  Not in B, Ma., Pen. or
SBG.  "The first edition of a curious learned work on the history of
all animals and birds that have served man for food."

35.  Colerl, Johann (d. 1639).  Calendarium Perpetuum, et Libri
Oeconomici:...unnd netige Hausbucher, vor die Hauswirt/ Acker leut/
Apotecker/ Kauffleute/ Wandersleute/ Weinhern/ Garnter/ den gemeinin
Handwercksleuten/ unnd all den jenigen/... Wittenberg, Paul Helwig,
1592-1600.  4*, (92) f., (4) f., 207 p., (156) f., (118)f., original
blind and gold stamped panelled calf, with two brass clasps intact,
over wooden boards, arms stamped into both covers, I.H.A.S. (achsen?)
Graesse II 213 who has not seen the book.  Otherwise completely
unrecorded.  "Each title is in red and black, each has large vignette
arming scene in two colors, and the calendars are also in two colors.
Each text page is bordered in type ornaments with woodcut initials and
tail-pieces.  A woodcut shows the lunar cycle.  The second part is said
to be the first work on household and farm management.  Part three
discusses the vine, fruits, vegetablels and cookery.  Part four treats
of agriculture.  The first edition."

41.  Corti, Matteo (1475-1542).  Matthaei Cvrtii Papiensis de Prandii
ac Caenae Modo Libellus.  Romae, Apud Paulum Manutium, Aldi F., 1562.
4*, (4) p., (1) f., 90 p., full green morocco, blind and gilt stamped,
with the Aldine Device deeply stamped into both covers, inner
dentelles, bound by R. Storr of Grantham.  Gr II 310; STC Italian 207;
V 240; B 111 (1566 only).  Ex Libris Syston Park Library; Ex Libris Sir
John  Hayford Thorold; Ex Libris Henry J. B. Clements.  "This is the
first edition of this work on dietitics, published posthumously by the
author's son Raphael Corti, and dedicated to Carl Borromeo, Pope Pius
IV.  The author was physician to Pope Clement VII, and to Cosimo I,
Grand Duke of Tuscany.  The title and last leaf have a red, blue and
gold Cardinals Arms.  The first edition is rare:  the National Library
of Medicine has only the second, octavo edition (Rome, 1566)."

42.  Crescenzi, Pietro de (1230?-1320?).  Ruralium Commodorum.
(Augsburg) Iohanne Schussler, "Circit" 14 Marcias 1471.  Folio, (211)
f., blind stamped red vellum over oak boards, brass corners, bosses,
clasps, one missing.  Goff C-965; Simon BB I-32 dates his (this) copy,
as does Goff, "circiter 16 ferier 1471." evidently copying another
collation, since the colophon in this copy reads "circit" 14 Marcias
1471.  Ex Libris A. L. Simon.  "Initial leaf, recto, illuminated in
red, green, purple, gold and silver with an Italian coat of arms on
outer margin.  Text is rubricated in red, blue and green throughout.
Edition Princips of the first printed book on agriculture and
economics."

43.  Culpeper, Nicholas (1616-1654).  Culpeper's Last Legacy:  Left and
Bequeathed to his Dearest Wife, for the Publicke Good, Being the
Choices and Most Profitable of those Secrets which while he Lived wre
Lockt up in his Breast, and Resolved Never to be Publisht till after
his Death....Never Publisht before in any of his other Works.  By
Nicholas Culpeper, late Student in Astrology and Physick.  (London) N.
Brooke, 1655.  8*, various pagings, contemporary calf rebacked in a
solander case by Marcus Crahan.  Win C 7523 two copies only, BM and
Yale.  "This first edition includes a frontispiece portrait.  The text
is divided into three parts, with three titles and separate
paginations.  The advice covers many subjects:  for a corn on the toe,
'Take a black snail and roast him well in a white cloth, bruise him and
lay him hot to the Corn, and it will take it away in a very short
time.'"

46. Dodoens, Rembert (1517-1585).  Historia Vitis Vinique:  Et Stirpivm
Nonnvllarum Aliarum.  Item Medicianlium Obseruationum
Exempla....Colonae, Apud Maternum Cholinum, 1580.  8*, (16), 169, (6)
p. Gr. II 416, only edition; SBB II 197; STC German 250; V 284.  Not in
B, L, Ma., Rothamsted or Westb.  Ex Libris A. L. Simon.  "This work on
wine includes a long list of authorities, and a history and
consecration of the vine, wine and eau de vie.  It is extremely rare."

52.  Elyot, Sir Thomas (1490?-1546).  The Casell of Helth Corrected and
in Some Places Augmented by the first Author therof, Sir Thomas Elyot
Knight, the yere of our Lorde 1541.  (London, Thomoas Berthelet) 1541.
Small 8*, (7) 90f. (f. 74 is misnumbered 68 and the error continues to
the end, making a total of 97 + 7f.) eighteenth century calf in Niger
case by Marcus Crahan. Oxford 3 1539; SBB II 205 1539 second edition;
STC 7645, Q only, cites 15 editions from 1539 to 1610.  Not in B,
Bish., L, Schr., V., or Westb.  "The tital has an engraved border with
column and arch, dated 1534.  The author, a diplomat, is said to have
incurred the wrath of physicians for writing this wrok on the physical
effects of various articles of diet, which was out of his field.  His
book called _The Governour_ gained him an appointment as ambassador to
Charles V."

53.  Epulario, E Recettario, E Secreti Diuersi, E Mascalcia.  Folio,
(382) f., various pagings, bound in contemporary boards.  "A manuscript
collection of cookery, medicine, instructions for dyeing, perfumes,
varnishes, beautifying preparations, chemical procedures, etc., written
in a clear hand by an Italian scribe in the earliest years of the
seventeenth century.  Bound at the end are two large broadsides:
'Diuerse Infermita, che possono Venire alle Bestie Bouine...di Gio.
Battista Ferrari Cavallerizzo Napolitano,' Bologna, Gioseffo Longhi,
(ca. 1610), an engraing of an ox; and 'Diuerse imfermit, che patiscono
I Caualli, con li suoi rimedij infallibili, e prouati,' Bologna,
Gioseffo Longhi, (ca. 1610), an engraving of a horse.  Loosely inserted
in the volume are three menus of banguest, two given to an English
Ambassador in 1612 (?).  An extraordinary manuscript, undoubtedly
composed by the maitre d'hotel of a great Italian household.  On the
verso of the title 'La Mascalcia Toscana' is inscribed 'Della Libreria
di Gualterotto Guicciardini.'"

55.  Fioravanti, Leonardo (d. 1588).  Dello Specchio de Scientia
Vniversale, ...Libri Tre.... Venetia, Vincenzo Valgrisi, 1564.  8*,
(12), 313, (1) f. 18th century vellum.  STC Italian 252; V 365; Westb.
103; Gr. II 581 cites 1567 edition; SBB II 262 cites 1572; SBG 674
cites other title.  Not in B or L.  "The first edition of a general
work on arts and sciences, including art, architecture, cosmography,
geometry, medicine, perfumery, alchemy, law, distillation, aromatics,
agriculture, cookery and philosophy."

58. (Galenus, Caludius, Pseud. Galen's Calendar on Meus and Drynkys.
England, ca. 1420.)  18x13 cm., 6 f. illuminated manuscript on vellum,
20 lines to the page, vellum binding, solander case by Marcus Crahan.
"The names of the months are rubricated, with gold illuminated capitals
and foliated borders.  The three leaves of Galen's Calendar on Metys
and Drynkys have been disbound and removed thogether with their cognate
leaves; with three illuminated manuscript pages in Latin.  The Galen is
in Transition Middle English in humanist script retaining the
transition Middle English symbols."

"A litteratim transcription of the beginning reads as follows:
   'Affter the furste prime afftyr the pyphyam rekyn x days affter and
the sonday nexte folewying schal all be closyd...'
   The Calendar continues with advice on such subjects as the dangers
of blood-letting, the values of wines at times of fasting, the choice
of figs and raisins in March.  In June one should eat 'sawgw and
letuse;' in July keep from 'leccheri;' in September eat all ripe fruit;
in Octover use most 'newe wyne.'  In October blood may be let save on
the first and fifteenth days, which are perilous."

67.  Hollyngus, Edmunds (1556?-1612).  De Salvbri Stvdiosorvm Victv,
hoc est:  De Literaturvm Omnivm Valetvdine Conseruanda, vitaq;
diutissime` producenda, libellus.... Ingolstadiii, Typis Ederianis, per
Andream Angermarium, 1602.  8*, (14), 145 p., contemporary vellum.  V
446 (wrong collation); Wellcome Cat. I 3285.  Not in B; Cushing; Gr.;
L; Osler; Schr.; SBB; Waller; Westb.  "Hollings, an English physician
born in Yorkshire, received his B.S. at Oxford.  Renouncing
Protestantism, he withdrew to Rome and finally settled at Ingolstadt,
where he was appointed Professor of Medicine.  The section of this work
on food and drink includes quotes of Abernathy on English beer."

79.  Missisbugo, Christoforo Di.  Banchetti Compositioni di Viviande,
et Apparecchio Generale, di Christoforo Di Missisbvgo, Allo
Illvstrissimo et Reverendissimo Signor il Signor Don Hippolito Da Este,
Cardinale de Ferrara.  Con gratia et Priuilegio.  Ferrara, Giovanni De
Buglhat et Antonio Hucher Compagni, 1549.  4*, (8), 71, (8) f., vellum
binding.  B 322, 1559 only; Ma. 1549, but with the title and two other
leaves missing; SBG 1048, 1549; Schr. 349, 1549; STC Italian 436, 1549;
V 596 cites 1549 with the wrong collation; Westb. 348, 1549.  Ex Libris
Joseph D. Vehling, noted bibiliograher of Apicius, with his three
labels.  "Illustrated with a large engraved portrait of Hippolito
d'Este, Cardinal of Ferrara, and two magnificent full-page woodcuts, a
banquetting scene, and interior of a kitchen.  Printed in an elegant
Italic type, this work is typographically as beautiful as it is rare."
     "It contains valuable accounts of the banquets, balls, receptions
and fetes given at the Court at the time of Renee of Ferrara, daughter
of Louis XII of France, sister of the wife of Francis I, wife of
Hercules II d'Este.  The handsome woodcuts are by Antonio Hucher who
worked with the printer, engraver and priest of the diocese of
Clermont, Giovanni di Bulghat."
    "This is probably the most important renaissance cookery book for
the history of manners and customs and food items of the period."

83.  Muffett, Thomas (1553-1604).  Health Improvement:  or, Rules
Comprizing and Discovering the Nature, Method, and Manner of Preparing
all sorts of Food used in this Nation.  Written by that ever Famous
Thomas Muffett, Doctor in Physick:  Corrected and Enlarged by
Christopher Bennet, Doctor in Physick, and Fellow of the Colledg (sic)
of Physitians in London.  London, Tho. Newcomb for Samuel Thomson,
1655.  4*, 296 p., mottled calf, elaborate gilt border, red gilt label
on spine.  B 327; Oxf. 27; Pen. 133; SBG 1063; Schr. 361; V 613; Westb.
C. 360; Wing M 2382.  Not in L or Ma.  "The author, a prominent London
physician and father of 'Little Miss Muffet,' compiled this essay on
foods and the manner of eating in about 1595.  He intended to
supplement it with a similar work on 'drinks' (page 221).  He became
the MP for Wilton in 1597.  Facing the title page is the Imprimatur
leaf of the President and Censors of the College of Physicians."

87.  Nun~ez de Coria, Francisco.  T.S.D.Aviso de Sanidad que Trata de
Todos los Generos de Alimentos, y del Regimento de la Sanidad,
Coprouado por los mas Insignes y Graues Doctores.... Madrid, Pierres
Cuisin, 1572.  8*, (18) 320 f., bound in later vellum.  Palau 197378; V
632, 1586 edition.  Not in B, L, Ma., Pen., Schr., Simon, Waller,
Welcome or Westb.  Ex Libris A Conovas del Castillo.  "This is a highly
interesting and uncommon work on food, its properties and qualities, by
a 16th century Spanish physician.  There is a long chapter on wines,
followed by a treatise on women, dealing mainly with sex life.  Except
for Palau, this first edition is wholly unrecorded."

92.  Plat, Sir Hugh (1552-1611?).  The Jewell House of Art and Nature.
Conteining diuers rare and profitable Inuentions, togehter with sundry
new experimentes in the Art of Husbandry, Distillation, and Moulding.
Faithfully and familiarly set downe, according to the Authors owne
experience, by Hugh Platte, of Lincolnes Inne Gentleman.  London, Peter
Short, 1594.  4*, various pagings, contemporary calf binding, restored.
 Huntington only in the U.S.; STC 19991, four copies.  "This is the
first issue of the first edition.  The book is divided into three
parts, each with separate title page and pagination.  Each title page
has an engraved border.  The arms of the Earl of Essex are on the verso
of the first title.  There is a large (26x36 cm.) folding plate with
sixteen mechanical and other figures, this plate being known in only
one other copy.  There are also seventeen text woodcuts and woodcut
initials, and type ornament tail pieces."

93.  Platina, Bartholomeo (1421-1481).  Platynae de Honesta Volvptate
et Valitvdine Libriprimi Capita.  (Venice, Laurentius de Aquila and
Sybillinus Umbri, 1475).  Folio, (93) f., without signature or
catchword, 32 line, Roman letter, extremely wide margins, bound in
later limp vellum.  An allegedly earlier updated printing (Rome, Ulric
Han, ca. 1475) is cited by BMC V 239; Hanin 13051; and Proctor 3380.
"This copy has manuscript initials, some slightly decorated.  Before
acquiring this Platina, the present owner mentioned it in New York to
Bernard Rosenthal, who suggested it might be more than the 'first
dated, printed cook book.'  Cary Bliss, at the Huntington, arranged an
inspection of all Ulric Han titles available to see whether there was
any pattern of dating or not dating his books, and whether his
typography was as sloppy as on his Platina.  It seemed probable than
(sic) Han had not printed the Platina."
    "At length a note arrived from L. W. Hanson, Keeper of Printed
Books at the Bodleian:  'Mr. L. A. Sheppard, who is revising our
incunable catalogue, thinks that the dated Platina (this copy) is
earlier than the Rome edition.  He has noted that in the latter the
type is worn.  The book (printed in Rome) is therefore not likely to be
as early as 1475, but is more probably circa 1479.'"
    "Frederick R. Goff, of the Library of congress:  'I am interested
in your discussion of the probable first edition of Platina's _De
honesta voluptate et valetudine._  Your case supported by Mr. L.A.
Sheppard has real merit.'"
    "This is the only book from this press.  Brunet IV, 690; Goff P
762, listing this copy; Gr. V 311; SBB I 78; Stillwell 693.  Not in
Westbury's _Handlist of Italian Cookery Books_, but his estate lists a
copy.  The first edition of the first printed cook book."

97.  Ryff, Fualtherum.  New Kochbuch Fur die Krancken.  Wie mann
krancker Personen/ In mancherley fehl vn Gebrechen des leibs pflegen/
Mit zurichtung unnd kochung vieler nutzlicher gesunder Speiss/
Getranck/ un allen eusserlichen dingen warten sol.  Den
Branckenwartern/ unnd sunst tederman in der noturfft zu underweisung
gestelt/ Durch Gualtherum Ruff, Medicum.  Mit Keys.  Gnaden un
Priuilegien.  (Franckfurt am Meyn, Christian Egenolff, 1545).  4*, (4),
152 f., Contemporary blind-tooled calf, repaired.  "Indexed with two
title-pages, the first printed in red and black with a red and black
woodcut of a kitchen, dining area and distant sick room; the second,
following the register, in black and white with a woodcut of nurses and
children around a sick-bed.  There are five woodcut illustrations in
the text.  This copy is clean and crisp with no defects.  The first
edition."

98.  Ryori Monogatari.  (The Story of Cookery.  No place or publisher),
1643.  (In Japanese characters.)  4*, (50) f., in paper wrapper.  "This
is the first Japanese cook book."

99.  Ryori Monogatari.  (The Story of Cookery.  No place or publisher),
1644.  (In Japanese characters.) 8*, (40) f., paper wrapper.  "This
first illustrated Japanese cook book shows a kitchen in which a large
fish is being carved, another large fish is being fanned while cooking,
and utensils and containers are shown on counters.  There is a large
screen in the background."

100.  Scacchi, Francisci.  Francisci Scacchi Fabrianensis de Salvbri
Potv Dissertatio.  Romae, Alexandru Zannettum, 1622.  8*, (10), 235,
(13) p., contemporary vellum, leather spine label.  B 417; Ma, 110; SBG
1355; V 771.  Not in L, Schr. or Westb.  "This first edition is
illustrated with an engraved title and six gigure engraving of vessels
for hot and cold drinks.  This work, divided into 22 chapters,
discusses warm and cold drinks, wines, waters, wines with meals,
nutritive value, dilutions, bouquet, etc.  It is perhaps the earliest
book on making sparkling wines."

105.  (Standish, Arthus) (fl. 1611).  The Commons Complaint.  Wherein
is Contained Two Speciall Grievances:  The first, the generall
destruction and waste of Woods in this Kingdome, with a remedy for the
same:...The Second Grievance is, The Extreme Dearth of Victvals.  Foure
remedies for the same:  I.  By a generall planting of Fruit-trees,...2.
By an extraordinary breeding of Fowle and Pullen...3. By a general
destroying of all kinde of Vermine, ...4. Prouing the abundance of
Corne that is yearly deuoured and destroyed by the infinite number of
Pigeons, kept and maintayned in this Kingdome.  London, Printed by
William Stansby, 1611.  4*, (16), 42 p., in a handsome panelled levant,
gilt with inner dentelles, marbled ends, by Marcus Crahan.  STC 23 200,
Sir R.L. Harmsworth; Huntingon only, calling for 50 pages in error;
Bishop adds one copy at Yale.  Ex Libris Sir Richard Newdigate, Arbury.
 "This is the first edition.  There were two others in the same year,
and a fourth in 1612.  The folding plate, shoing a plan for a mote,
gives the following advice:  'In the casting of the Mote, the best
earth must bee cast into the Plot, to raise it so as the House may
stand three or foure yards higher then (sic) the sides to the Moteward,
that the water may descend; and for pleasure there may be some king of
Quick-wood set about it....'"


Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:14:36 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - The winebook of Arnaldus de Villanova - was: Old Cookery Texts: Bancroft Library (Long)

Hi Alys/Elise,

thanks for this great list of books!

One of my old favourites is the treatise on wine by Arnald of Villanova:

>>
6.  Arnaldus de Villanova (d. 1313?).  Hie nach Volget ein Loblich
Tractat eins Furneemen Doctors der Ertzney mitt namen Arnoldi de Nova
Villa der ein Kunigs vo Frankrich Gewesen ist.  Diser Tractat Haltet
inn von Bereitung vn Bruchung der Wein zu Gesuntheit der Menschen.
Wellisches Buchlin der Wilham vo Hirnkofen...von Latin zu Teutsch
Transferiet...Strassburg, Martin Schott, 1484.  (Small folio, (11) f.,
lacks initial blank, bound in new limp vellum.  Hain 1809; GKW 9 copies
only; BMC I: no copy in America; Goff A-1082, College of Physicians of
Philadelphia.  Ex Libris Harry Schraemli.  "The subjects treated
include wine making and the therapeutic use of wine."
<<

The textual tradition of this winebook shows several "adventures":

The first edition of the german text probably was published 1478 in
Esslingen by Fyner. A facsimile of this version together with an ENGLISH
TRANSLATION by Henry E. Sigerist was published 1943 in New York ("This
edition of the earliest printed book on wine limited to three hundred
and fifty copies...").

The German text of this first edition is based on two sources:
- -- Arnald's 'Liber de vinis' (e.g. available in his Opera omnia, Basel
1585)
- -- The 'tractatus de vino et eius proprietate' (publ. by Sigerist in the
Bulletin of the history of medicine, 1944), which is itself a version of
the 'Pelzbuch' of Gottfried von Franken (see: G. Eis, Gottfrieds
Pelzbuch, Muenchen 1944, repr. Hildesheim 1966).

The text of all the subsequent editions from 1479 onwards I have seen
differs from this first edition in three respects:
- -- the preface is reduced
- -- from the second printing (Augsburg: Baemler) onwards a new section on
the use of wine is inserted from the so called Hohenberg Regimen
sanitatis (first printed also by Baemler in Augsburg; the manuscript
tradition edited by Christa Hagenmeyer).
- -- a short section on mixing water and wine is inserted.

I have transcribed two versions of this text:
(1) the most important version of the second edition of 1479
(2) the quite unimportant version of the edition Strassburg 1483 (which
I transcribed in a time when I was happy to have _this_ edition which is
better than nothing)

NOW: If anyone is willing and able to web the Sigerist-translation of
the version 1478, I could web the transcription of the 1479 edition
together with a translation of the 1479-additions. I would love to web
the Sigerist-translation myself, but I do not sufficiently know the
American copyright and I do not want to get in jail by providing
electronic texts.

TG


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:17:42 EDT
From: THLRenata at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - cookery books

Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
<<
 _The Medieval Kitchen_
 Recipes from France and Italy
 Odile Redon >>

This is one of the best books in my (admittedly small) collection!

I made the Roasted Onion Salad for Caid's Pelican meeting potluck yesterday
and it got rave reviews.  It's quickly becoming our Barony's favorite dish as
well -- it was part of our prize-winning bring-your-own-banquet at Coronation
last month.

Renata
Barony of Altavia
Kingdom of Caid
Los Angeles, CA


Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:49:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Query re. Lorna Sass book

Susan P Laing wrote:
> Whilst looking for a supplier for Sass's book "To the King's taste" I found
> reference to another of her books.
>
> Can anyone give a quick review of this and advise if it's worth purchasing??
>
>      Sass, Lorna J.: Christmas Feasts From History ; NY, Met. Museum of Art &
>                 Chalmers CkBks, 1981, Paperback, VG Great American Cooking
> Schools

It's not bad as commercial secondary sources go; my best scenario would
be to pick it up off the remainder table at a discount. There are some
good recipes in it, as well as some [reasonably] well-researched menus,
some relying on heavy speculation, such as her Anglo-Saxon Yule feast. I
like the plum pudding in her Dickensian section.

And yes, of course, not all her work falls in the scope of the SCA, but
then this should only serve as a reminder that Sass, as with Cosman,
McKendry, et al, aren't working with SCA members specifically in mind,
and what we might view as inauthenticity is to them only common sense.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:31:27 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Hroar Delurks!

<snip>
>>Hroar, Curye is usually sold at Pennsic, that's where I got my copy.
<snip>

Just FYI, Greg & I have webbed Forme of Cury as .jpg files at:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:11:52 +0200
From: "ana l. valdes" <agora at algonet.se>
Subject: SC - Carole Lambert new book

I want warmly recommend Carole Lamberts new book, "Fetes Gourmandes au
Moyen Age". I got it today from France and its a wonderful fine arts
book with great photos from period utensils and artifacts, plus ten or
fifteen recipes from Taillevent, Menagier du Paris and other French
books. The recipes are reproduced facsimilar, translated later to modern
French and a modern adapted recipe is given too, plus comments about the
dietary uses at that time. A really enjoyable book!

For Frenchspeaking too: Libraire Gourmande, in Paris, have at last got
their online cathalog on the net. Great books and great cathalog.
The URL is http://www.librairie-gourmande.fr/
Regards
Ana


Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:46:40 -0500
From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: SC - Domostroi Recipes

Anya wrote on the original subject of Lefse/hleifr:
>for those intrested, there is a copy of the Domostroi in english now, and
>lists alt, rye, wheat and oats as grains avaliable in the time of Ivan the
>Terrible. Granted that's right at the end of period, but considering that
>it's Russian it's probably a bit behind the times.
<snip>
>It also has chapters on feast foods, and two chapters of "recipies" on
>drinks and maily veggie dishes.

I just want to caution people on using the English translation of the
Domostroi for Russian food research.

First:
The Domostroi is a great research aid, but the text underwent several
changes in its history.  The sections with recipes (chapters 64:2 through
66) are not period and may be of a _foreign_ origin, as Pouncy points out
in her introduction.  She says that they were added on sometime between
1600 and 1625.  The wedding section (chapter 67) and its menus do not
appear until after the addition of the recipes sections, again out of
SCA-period.  Now, I _am_ an advocate for making the cut-off date for
SCA-period Russia sometime in the mid-17th cen (pre-Peter the Great), but
the recipes sections should be used with recognition of their OOP-ness (as
Anya did).

Second:
While looking at Russian-language versions of the Domostroi, I have
discovered that Pouncy mistranslated and/or needlessly translated several
costume and food terms.  I feel that she should have left all the
"difficult" words untranslated or at least provide the original, (which she
did do for some terms).  For example, she calls a "dushegreya" a blouse,
something that it definitely is NOT (visit the Slavic Interest Group if you
want to find out what it really is).

I have been working on re-redacting the recipe "Russian Cabbage or Greens"
(found at http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Recipes_Done.html), in which
Pouncy translates "smetanka" as cream, when it could actually be any number
of foods (I tried to find my redaction notes, but they are under my Pennsic
and school stuff at the moment, sorry) including sour cream (which would be
nice since we don't have any evidence of sour cream in SCA-period Russia).
It is kind of fun to read it in Russian, it has the same feel as medieval
European recipes.

The gist of my tirade is that I do not fully trust the English translation
of the Domostroi (at least on my two pet subjects of clothing and food) and
I am mostly relying on it as a guide to help me quickly find references in
the Russian text.  Now, I am not fluent in Russian and I am _definitely_
not a scholar at the level that Pouncy is and her translation was a _great_
addition to the relatively few medieval Russian sources in English that we
have.  But unfortunately for us Pouncy did not do her translation with
historical reenactment in mind (my husband spoke to her on the subject at a
conference they both attended).

While I'm at it Anya, why don't you come on over and join us at the Slavic
Interest Group?  We could always use another cook for the Russian wedding
project (hint, hint).
*************************************************************************
Ilyana Barsova (Yana)  jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2
Slavic Interest Group http://www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html


Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:46:52 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sour Cabbage Soup?

Varju at aol.com wrote:
> troy at asan.com writes:
> << After a bell went off in my head, I went and looked for the relevant
>  passage in Paul Kovi's "Transylvanian Cuisine".  >>
>
> Could I get more information on this title?  It sounds like something Ireally
> need to add to my library. .. .
>
> Noemi

Oh, yeah, you do need this, especially for the Saxon recipes. (No, not
_those_ Saxons, the ones that came from Saxony in the 13th century to
live in Transylvania, silly!)

"Transylvanian Cuisine"
Copyright 1985 Paul Kovi
Crown Publishers, New York
ISBN 0-517-55698-7

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:47:55 -0400
From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain at snet.net>
Subject: SC - Book question - *A Feast for the Eyes*

Got a catalogue from Yale University Press the other day - it ha a book in
it called *A Feast for the Eyes*, by Gillian Riley.  Two reviews are quoted
in the catalogue, as follows:

     "This handsomely designed offering, with 115 colour plates, a lively,
     witty text tracing the social history of food over some six centuries
     in Italy, Netherlands, Spain, England and France, and a [sic] array of
     recipes drawn from contemporary sources is a visual, mouth-watering
     delight. - David Mitchell, *Lookou*

     "This book seems almost edible; it is stuffed with gorgeous pictures,
     delicious recipes, and tasty stories about food and art.  Gazing on
     paintings from the National Gallery, Riley evokes the past through
     food.  Not all recipes will appeal to modern taste, but the tales and
     115 color illustrations surely will." - *Virginia Quarterly Review*

So - anybody seen this book?  Opinions?  Comments?

Laird Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie
Dun an Leomhain Bhig
Canton of Dragon's Aerie  [southeastern CT]
Barony Beyond the Mountain  [northern & southeastern CT]
East Kingdom


Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:24:04 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Book question - *A Feast for the Eyes*

> Got a catalogue from Yale University Press the other day - it ha a book in
> it called *A Feast for the Eyes*, by Gillian Riley.  Two reviews are
> quoted in the catalogue, as follows:
<snip>
> So - anybody seen this book?  Opinions?  Comments?
>
> Alasdair mac Iain

I haven't seen this one, but I have seen some of her other works, even have
one or two.

She doesn't quote the original recipes, doesn't reference sources and her
bibliographies leave a lot to be desired.  The paintings are often more
interesting than the text.

Bear


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:10:45 EDT
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - SPICES

Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
<< My good lord husband recently gifted me with the book SEVEN CENTURIES OF
 ENGLISH COOKING: A Collection of Recipes by Maxime de la Falaise.
 This is from the back of the book. >>

Be very careful with this book.  While she is much more scrupulous about
listing the source, and often includes the original recipe, she makes a lot
of substitutions, omissions, and additions in her modern versions.  As an
example, she has a recipe entitled "Green pea soup with onions" or some such,
which she interprets as a green pea soup with sauteed onions and *green
beans*.  The original she's working from is Longe wortes de pesoun, which is
a pea soup with chopped up greens and onions.  Apparently she decided that
"wortes" were green beans and didn't realize that green beans weren't used in
European cookery at the time of this recipe.  She also adds an egg binder and
a variety of spices unnamed in the original to her "hedgehogs or yrchuns"
recipe.
I find the book mostly useful for the originals, and occasionally for cooking
techniques or times, but compare the original and modern versions very
carefully, and don't expect her to have followed the original closely.

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:46:51 SAST-2
From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Petit Propos Culinaires - website

The latest edition of Petit Propos Culinaires, the food history
journal, advertises their new website at
http://members.tripod.com/rdeh
The site apparently offers "what may be the biggest available
resource in the English language for food historians": "the
consolidated index to issues 1-55 of PPC and also the consolidated
index to the Oxford Symposium Proceedings 1981-1994."

Since my web browser has marked the occasion by refusing to function
this morning, I have been unable to see for myself, but hopefully
passing the URL on to all you food-types will relieve the frustration
a little!

in service,
Jehanne

Jehanne de Huguenin, called Melisant  *  Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town (Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town)


Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:31:31 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - favorite sweet

swbro at mail.telis.org wrote:
> Speaking of Esther Aresty's _The Delctable Past_, I picked up a copy of it
> at an auction this weekend.  It looks like a survey type of book, has
> anybody read it, and what do you think about it?

As I recall it had two or three recipes that were immensely popular (and
incidentally good food) and which were considered state-of-the-art in
the SCA 25 or 30 years ago, when there were fewer primary source
materials easily available. As with a lot of the older, less-used source
materials, it lives in the buried-and-only-semi-accessible layer of my
bookshelves, along with things like "Dining With William Shakespeare". I
recall Aresty's adaptations of such period recipes as the Mustard Sops
from Le Viandier de Taillevent, and an adapted eighteenth-century recipe
for Richmond Maids of Honor doing double-duty for both the
Georgian/Regency sweet and medieval darioles, even though they're pretty
different. Aresty is also the source of the recent hubbub on this list
regarding the Great Rosti Question.

In general I'd say she represents state-of-the-art SCA cookery, also
incidentally tasty food, from 30 years ago, which has been superceded by
just as tasty food made through better research.

As I've frequently said in the past, many of us unfairly revile books
like "Fabulous Feasts", and the one discussed above, for their
inadequacies, while at the time of their publication there wasn't a lot
else available in the way of source materials for those who didn't want
to deal with untranslated or unmodernized primary sources. There was no
"Take a Thousand Eggs or More", no second edition of "Pleyn Delit". No
first edition, in fact. Also, these books don't address the specific
needs of SCAdians very well at all, but they weren't designed to. They
were designed more for people to play at home with doing a medieval
feast that was more about costume-party fun than about education.
Authenticity wasn't considered important, and since it sold fewer books,
why include it as a criterion?

In any case, I have a soft spot in my heart for such books, and can't
bear to get rid of them, but I rarely cook from them today.

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:32:32 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Welcome to sca-cooks

ChannonM at aol.com wrote:
> "Maino de Maineri's early 14th century Opusculum de Saporibus, roughly,
> Little Book of Condiments, a sauce book in Latin,"
>
> Any chances of getting ahold of that one, for us liguistically challenged
> folk, in English?
>
> Hauviette

Speculum, Volume 9, Issue 2 (April, 1934), pp. 183-190

"A Mediaeval Sauce-Book", by Lynn Thorndike

Thorndike gives a brief precis or summary of the text in English, but
doesn't really translate the recipes word-for-word. Those are pretty
simple, though, because they are largely ingredients lists and fairly
simple to tackle with a dictionary even if you can't deal with the
grammar. The entire article is seven pages long, of which three are the
Latin text and one an excerpt from Villanova's Regimen Sanitatis for
comparison, the remaining three being Thorndike's commentaries and
footnotes. This was, of course, written for scholars in 1934, when it
was pretty much assumed that anyone studying Latin texts would simply go
ahead and learn Latin, so the commentary isn't completely geared for
those with no exposure to Latin at all. You can get a pretty good idea
of what the text says without much translation, though. The Latin is
also a medieval Milanese variant, not classical, so that Cassell's
dictionary won't be entirely helpful at times.

I got this through the JSTOR database which actually has the issues of
Speculum and a bazillion other journals online, but you have to be a
subscriber. I was afraid to ask what's involved to subscribe as an individual.

The site is http://www.jstor.org/

They also give a list of subscribing libraries; you could look and see
if there's a subscribing library close to you, and go and have the
librarian hook you up. In my case it was for the cost of $.20/printed
page, and all the ogling you want for free.

Another such subscribable database is ABC-CLIO, which seems to provide
abstracts of published articles, including ones from Smithsonian. I
don't _think_ you can get to the actual articles online via CLIO, though.

The maddening thing is that both these database systems, and others as
well, are accessible from a regular home dial-up internet connection,
but you can only get to the useful stuff by subscribing to the system,
and while a major university can afford one or several such
subscriptions, I probably can't.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:32:55 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Grewe's Almohade Cookbook edition

Hullo, all!

I thought people might be interested, if not happy about it.

Rudolf Grewe's translated edition of a Hispano-Arabian 12th-century
cookery text, tentatively entitled "The Almohade Cookbook", and referred
to as forthcoming in a Grewe article in Lambert's "Du manuscrit a la
table", appears never to have been published. At least not by E.J.
Brill, of Leiden, as Grewe had suggested.

I finally got an e-mail from a human being at Brill & Co., saying that
while they'd been interested in publishing it, they never did. The lady
gave no reason, but I suspect Grewe's final illness and passing intervened.

The manuscript in Arabic is still presumably out there, though.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:04:10 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - Grewe's Almohade Cookbook edition

<< I suppose there is no chance of getting a copy of the manuscript [of
the Almohade Cookbook]? >>

What Grewe called 'Almohade Cookbook' is part of what he called the
'Colin manuscript'. There is already an edition of this cookbook by
Huici Miranda (in two versions: one as a self contained publication in
1965, on in the 'Revista del Instituto de estudios islámicos 9/10
(1961/62), both mentioned by Grewe. Then there seems to be a translation
into modern Spanish by Huici Miranda (not mentioned by Grewe):
- -- A. Huici Miranda: Traduccion espan~ola de un manuscrito anónimo del
siglo XIII sobre la cocina hispano-magribi. Madrid 1966.

I had this translation in hands recently, but did not see the editions
myself.

Grewe said that the edition is not satisfactory mainly because of the
lack of notes and because the editor did not see, "that some of the
folios had been misplaced when the manuscript was bound", and thus,
"many recipes are truncated and improperly connected" (p. 142).

Thus, I assume that we have:
(1) two versions of a printed edition (that Grewe thought
unsatisfactory),
(2) a translation into modern Spanish (based upon the edition Grewe
thought unsatisfactory),
(3) a manuscript "in poor physical condition": the whereabouts should be
mentioned in the Huici Miranda edition.

Thomas


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Maestro Martino da Como

- --- Thomas Gloning
<Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> wrote:
> Would or could some kind soul say a few words about
> the following edition:

I wish I could, but my linguistic skills are
non-existant.

> -- Maestro Martino da Como, Libro de arte
> coquinaria. A cura di E.
> Montorfano e con introduzione di E. Travi. Milano
> 1990.

This is available in the Library of Congress, the
Folger Library, in Washington DC, Harvard Univ.
Library, and NY Public.  It has no ISBN.

> Should be a facsimile of the 15th-century manuscript in the Library of
> Congress together with a transcription. [I am aware of the edition in
> Faccioli (1966), the modern Italian rendering on the basis of another
> manuscript in Bertoluzza (1993) and the re-edition of the Faccioli-text
> together with the Platina-facsimile, that appeared in Udine in 1994.]

This last book:

Martino, da Como, 15th cent.
  Libro de arte coquinaria / Martino de Como ;
premessa e commenti de Paolo Micoli.  Udine : Societa
filologica friulana : Arti grafiche friulane, 1994.
No ISBN

was published with a Platina facsimile and without.

Without is availabe in Harvard Univ. Library and Yale
Univ. Library.

Maestro Martino has also been translated into Spanish
in 1997/1998, in this book:

Cruz Cruz, Juan.
  La cocina mediterranea en el inicio del Renacimiento
/ Juan Cruz Cruz.  Huesca [Spain] : La Val de Onsera,
1997 [1998]. 415 p. ISBN 8488518390

This contains a translation of Maestro Martino and of
Roberto de Nola, 15th cent. "Libro de guisados,
manjares y potajes" [1529] in Spanish.

Only Library of Congress has this book.

Roberto de Nola also wrote a book called "Libro de
cozina" in 1525.

Roberto de Nola's various books can be found in UC
Berkeley, UC Davis, Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, U.
of Penn. U. of Iowa, U. of Minnesota, and several
other university libraries.

> It seems to me that Maestro Martino plays not a very important role in
> reenactment activities, while Platina, who heavily relied on Martino, is
> mentioned more often, and while Maitre Chiquart, who seems to be of the
> same calibre as Martino, is sort of a hero of 15th century cuisine. Is
> it due to the (lack of) English translation(s) we have?

I think that is exactly it.  We cannot use, study or
quote that which we cannot read.

> Thomas
> PS.: Is the Perry-translation of the Almohade-cookbook online?>

No. Not yet.

Huette.


Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 13:01:37 -0400
From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>
Subject: SC - Martino citations

I'm making my way through Mary Ella Milham's 1998 translation/critical
edition of Platina's De Honesta Voluptate and she includes several
citations for Martino, although they're probably not easily accessible:

Milham, "Martino and His De re coquinaria," Medieval Food and Drink, The
Center for Medieval and Early Renaissance Studies, vol. 21 (Binghampton,
NY, 1995), 62-66.

Bruno Laurioux, "I libri di cucina italiani alla fine del medioevo: un
nouvo bilancio," Archivio storico italiano 154 (1996): 45-54.

Aldo Bertoluzza, Libra di Cucina del Maestro Martino de Rossi.

Claudio Benporat, "Il recettario di Martino de Rubeis nel contesto della
cucina rinascimentale italiana," Appunti di gastronomia 13 (Feb. 1994):
5-14 and "Maestro Martino e i soui ricettari," Appunti di gastronomia 14
(June 1994): 5-13.

Milham, "Platina and Marino's Libro de arte coquinaria," Acta Conventus
Neo-Latini Hafniensis:  Proceedings of the Eigth International Congress
of Neo-Latin Studies, edited by Ann Moss, Philip Dust, Paul Gerhard
Schmidt, Jacques Chomarat, and Francesco Tateo; general editor, Rhonda
Schnur, MRTS, vol 120, Binghampton NY, 1994: 669-673.

Emilio Faccioli, L'Arte della cucina, 2 vols, Milan 1966.  Vol 1:
Martino, 115-204.

Milham, "The Manuscripts of Platina's De Honesta Voluptate and of its
source, Martino," Scriptorium 26 (1972): 127-129.

E. Montorfano, Libro de arte coquinaria, Maestro Martino da Coma (Trent,
1993).

Joseph Vehling, "Martino and Platina: Exponents of Renaissance Cookery,"
Hotel Bulletin and Nation's Chefs (October 1932): 192-195.

In addition to the Libro de arte coquinaria, she notes the other
manuscripts of Martino are MS. Washington: LC Med. MS. 153; MS Vatican
Urb. lat. 1203; MS. Milan: formerly Chiesa Coll.  I have no idea what
any of this means, but I'm sure someone out there can explain it.  She
says that the recently discovered 4th manuscript at Riva del Garda
proves that his name was Martino de Rossi, and he was employed by the
Dukes of Milan before he became chef to Cardinal Tresvisan.

John le Burguillun
Barony of Nottinghill Coill
Atlantia


Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:59:56 +1000
From: "HICKS, MELISSA" <HICKS_M at casa.gov.au>
Subject: SC - Food and Feast in Tudor England - Book Review

Sim, Alison (1997) Food and Feast in Tudor England, Sutton Publishing: Great
Britain.  ISBN: 0-7509-1476-9

Chapter Headings:
Intro: Food and Society in 16th C
Kitchens & Kitchen Equipment
Staffing and Provisioning in the Kitchen
Beer and Brewing
Wine
Health and Diet
Tableware
Table Manners
Feasts, Entertainment and Luxury Food
Banquets

This book gives an OVERVIEW if foodways in Tudor England.  It contains no
recipes, but the bibliography and illustrations (and the few photographs of
extant kitchenware) makes up for it.

Overall I was disappointed with the book.  Sim has a tendency to make
sweeping statements and over-generalisations.  She uses extensive footnotes,
but these are only referring to the well-known primary sources many of us
already know and use.  In some cases she draws information from other
secondary sources such as Banquetting Stuffe.  She doesn't seem to do much
analysis on the information she has.

An example taken at random, umm p154, 3rd para:

Originally marmalade was made from quinces, and was imported from Portugal.
The name comes from the Portuguese word for 'quince', which is 'marmelo'.
The marmalade was boiled for longer than our version, so that it was fairly
solid, then it was dried in the sun.  It was eaten as chunks.

The footnote for that paragraph was: "The Evolution of the Banquet Course"
in Banquetting Stuffe p 22-5.

Recommendations:
If you are complete beginner in this area then this is an excellent book.
The bibliography is very extensive and although I do not like the way she
has written the text, it does provide a wide-ranging overview.  It is a good
starting point.

If you are moderately experienced in renaissance cooking, then don't bother.
You would already have most of relevant primary sources (such as those
Master A mentioned in a previous post) and can do this level of analysis
yourselves.

If you want info on Banquets, spend your money on "Banquetting Stuffe"
instead.  It goes into a lot more analysis and provides recipes.

IF anyone has a differing view, please advise - I would love to see a
differing viewpoint.

Regards
Meliora.


Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:27:50 -0000From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>Subject: Re: Subject: SC - Something other than Hungarian and beets.Gunthar wrote:>That would be wonderful since I don't have anything for Portuguese>or Dutch to work with.You said Danish in your earlier post - is it Dutch or Danish recipes you arelooking for? If it is the latter, there is the Danish Koge Bog from 1616which I have. I´ve also just got a new and very interesting Danish book -Middelaldermad by Bi Skaarup and Henrik Jacobsen - with 99 recipes fromvarious sources, both originals and modern interpretations of the recipes.About half are Danish, the rest are German, English, and one each French andDutch.Nanna

Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:11:46 -0000From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>Subject: Re: SC - Nanna's Danish CookbookHuette wrote:>Is this book you mention recently published?  What>language is it written in?  Could you give the>publisher and ISBN number for this book, if it is a>recent publication?It is in Danish, with recipes in original languages, published by Gyldendalin 1999 - the ISBN is 97-00-37304-4. It has recipes from the followingsources: The Harpestreng manuscript (Danish version); the 1616 Danish KogeBog; a cookbook in Danish by Anna Weckerin, published in 1648 (probably atranslation of the German book); Forme of Cury; and one or two recipes fromeach of the following sources: Das buch von guter speise; Koch undKellermeisterey; Kookboek (Dutch, 1510); Pleyn Delit; To the King´s Taste;An Ordinance of Pottage; Taillevent; and one previously unpublished Danishrecipe dating from before 1552.All recipes have been worked out/redacted from originals by the authors(both are archaelogists and gastronomes); I compared those taken from PleynDelit and they are not translations of Hieatt´s work or anything like that.BTW, I missed some of the recent discussion on beets/beetrots and havedeleted some of the posts so I´m not really sure what the issue was but ifanyone is interested, there is a recipe for pickled beetroots in the DanishKoge Bog.Nanna

Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Liber Cure Cocorum: I.L.L. Follies of 1999 (long)

Adamantius,

I looked up Liber Cure Cocorum on RLIN and found that
these libraries have copies of the reprint:

Columbia / Butler (NY)
Cornell (NY) (has 2 copies, which is why they loaned you one)
Folger Library, Washington DC
Northwestern Univ. (IL)
Harvard Univ. (MA)
Univ. of Rochester (NY)

and the British Museum Library has a microfilmed copy.

It might have been easier to get the British Museum to
print off the pages from their microfilmed copy.

As for the Furnivall, this is the most recent edition:

Furnivall, Frederick James, 1825-1910, ed.
  Early English meals and manners: John Russell's Boke
of nurture, Wynkyn de    Worde's Boke of keruynge, The
boke of curtasye, R. Weste's Booke of demeanor,
Seager's Schoole of vertue, The babees book,
Aristotle's A B C, Urbanitatis, Stans puer ad mensam,
The lytille childrenes lytil boke, For to serve a
lord,  Old Symon, The birched school-boy, &c. With
some forewords on education in early England. Edited
by Frederick J. Furnivall. London, N. Trèubner, 1868.
  Detroit, Singing Tree Press, 1969.
    c, 388, xvi p. illus. 22 cm.

There seem to be four different editions available:
1868, 1898, 1931 and 1969.

You can find these in these libraries:

Rutgers (NJ)
Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara.
Stanford (CA)
Berkeley (CA) Public Library
Folgers Library, Washington DC (Several copies)
Univ. of Iowa
Harvard Univ. (MA)(Several copies)
Dartmouth (NH)
Cornell (several copies)
Univ. of Rochester (NY)
New York Univ. (Several copies)
SUNY (Buffalo)
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley (Several copies)
Univ. of Minn., St. Paul
Univ. of Minn., Minneapolis
Univ. of Mich. (Several copies)
Univ. of Penn.
Columbia Univ.
Huntington Library (San Marino, CA)
Pierpont Morgan Library (NY)
Florida State Univ.
Getty Center (Malibu, CA)
Univ. of Calif., Davis
Temple Univ. (PA)
Univ. of Chicago
Brigham Young Univ.

Anyway, if you ever need a book looked up and where to
find it, I will be only too happy to do so for you.

Huette


Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:04:45 -0500 (EST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
Subject: SC - Re: Liber Cure Cocorum

Greetings.  I missed the beginning of this thread, but I have a copy in my house
in a book dating from 1864, _Philological Society's Transactions_.  Said book also contains "The Pricke of Conscience",a Northumbrian poem by Richard Rolle, and "Castel Off Loue" (Chasteau d'Amour), an early English translation by Robert Gresseteste, Bishop of London.  Found the book (at Pennsic, IIRC) for $35.

What recipe were you looking for?  Also, the introduction to this says that it is printed from a "transcript of the Sloan MS 1986, where it occurs as an appendix to the 'Boke of Curtasye'.  It is written in a Northern dialect of the IVth century, probably not much earlier than the time of Henry VI."

Alys Katharine


Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:27:51 -0500 (EST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
Subject: SC - Re: Liber Cure Cocorum

I own a copy of _Liber Cure Cocorum_.  It is in the Philological Society's Early English Volume, 1862-4 and was printed in London in 1865.  Found it (IIRC) at Pennsic at either Esmeralda's books or the Armoury.  Cost all of $35.

The "Liber" that I have was "copied and edited from the Sloan MS. 1986 by Richar Morris. It is mentioned that it dates from around 1440 and is written in a Northern dialect.  The preface written by Morris includes Northumbrian dialect words and says "From internal evidence it would seem that the author of this poem was a native of North-West Lancashire..."

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:28:11 -0500
From: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Liber Cure Cocorum: I.L.L. Follies of 1999

Here's what the Cornell Library catalog says about the book:

     TITLE: Liber cure cocorum. Copied and edited from the Sloane ms. 1986

        NOTES:   A curious poem on cookery "now first printed from a transcript
                   of the Sloane ms. 1986, where it occurs as an appendix to
                   the 'Boke of curtasye'. It is written in a northern dialect
                   of the XVth century."--Pref.
                 "Supplement to the Transactions of the London Philological
                   Society for 1862"--Brit. Mus. Catalogue.

        Angeline


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:39:00 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Liber Cure Cocorum: I.L.L. Follies of 1999 (long)

And it came to pass on 5 Nov 99,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
> Valoise Armstrong wrote:
> > Adamantius,
> > You're looking for The Boke of Nuture? I'm pretty sure the Early English
> > Text Society version has been reproduced on ultrafiche. It should
> > probably be listed in OCLC, I don't know if it's in RLIN.

> Most likely. I really haven't investigated it yet, it's just something
> I'll get to the next time I have time for this kind of thing.

I have used the following book from the Early English Text Society.  It is
at the Alexander Library at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ.  IT
contains several period books of courtesy.

 Personal author: Furnivall, Frederick James, 1825-1910, ed.
Title: Early English meals and manners:
 Publication info: London, N. Trübner & co., 1868.
 Physical descrip: 4 p. l., c p., 3 l., 388 (i. e. 390) p. cvi pl. 28 x 22 cm.

On www.bookfinder.com, I found a reprint for sale:

Furnivall, F.J., ed.: The Babees Book. Early English Meals and
Manners. ;  Oxford EETS, 1997. Facsimile, New, 674, Facsimile of
1868 edition. Includes  Modus Cenandi, Bokes of Nurture of Rhodes and
Russell, Boke of Kervinge, Boke of Curtasy, Hardcover, 15th century
table manners etiquette carving courtesy England British Medieval
Acanthus Books USD72.00

It shouldn't be too hard to get a copy via ILL, from Rutgers or elsewhere.
I don't have direct access to OCLC, but maybe someone else can
check it for you.

Brighid (in librarian mode)

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 19:36:28 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah at grin.net>
Subject: SC - Stere Htt Well

Another question, as i'm out on the web looking for books. I know
this book has been mentioned here. I found what appear to be two
editions. Does anyone know if the text is the same or are these two
significantly different versions?

(1) Samuel Pepys. "Stere Htt Well - Medieval Recipes and Remedies
from Samuel Pepys's Library." Publisher: Cambridge: 1972.

Describes as: "Facsimile edition of a medieval recipe and remedie
book in the library of Samuel Pepys. English facing translation and
introduction by... Delia Smith."

(2) Hodgett, Gerald A.J. "Stere Htt Well - A book of medieval
refinements, recipes and remedies from a manuscript in Samuel Pepys's
library." Publisher: Mary Martin Books, Adelaide/(N.D.)

Describes as: " Black and red facsimiles of recipes, along with
Hodgett's modern English versions. With an introduction by Delia
Smith."

Again, my thanks for any elucidation,
Anahita


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:45:35 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - The Pantropheon

Lilinah biti-Anat wrote:
> I was tooling around on line and found this title:
> The Pantropheon or a History of Food and Its Preparation in Ancient
> Times by Alexis Soyer
>
> I am assuming it covers cuisine a bit before the usual SCA time.
>
> Anyone here familiar with it?

AAAK!

It contains about every pitfall bad Victorian scholarship can scare up.
An interesting read, but it's kind of like a cross between the Larousse
Gastronomique's articles on Asian cookery and the English translation of
Vehling's Apicius. It ridiculously presupposes a French supremacy as the
wellspring of all creativity in matters culinary, and appears to have a
fair amount of outright fantasy as the basis for some of the material. A
complete, entire, pan-global culinary timeline as seen through the eyes
of someone who comprehends nothing but the cooking of 19th-century
France. Soyer definitely did understand that, but then he _also_ felt
that the main reason there were so many poor, starving people in
late-19th-century Europe was that too few of these poor devils
understood how to make a good, cheap soup. To that end he wrote a famous
pamphlet designed to end world hunger through soup. He was kind of a nut.

A very interesting literary document, though, and I always enjoyed
reading it. I think, though, that it's not a very good tool for learning
about culinary history. Others' mileage may vary.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:15:29 -0800
From: Lilinah biti-Anat <lilinah at grin.net>
Subject: SC - New Book: Art, Culture and Cuisine

I got permission from the woman who wrote this to forward it hear.
She said she'd be interested in hearing folks' opinions. FYI, i am
NOT on any Middle lists. Her post was forwarded to another list i'm
on, but i thought folks here might be interested.

Anahita

- ------- Forward -------

Subject: [Mid] Interesting new book!
To: sca-middle at midrealm.org (Middlebridge)
From:  Sally Burnell <sburnell at acorn.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 99 11:39:54 EST

We just got in a very interesting book here at the library called "Art,
Culture and Cuisine: Ancient and Medieval Gastronomy" by Phyllis Pray
Bober, ISBN 0226062538, University of Chicago Press, 1999, $50.00. It
not only has recipes but is filled with quite interesting gastronomic
information, for all you cooking types, as well as a lot of other
fascinating stuff about art history and period culture. You might wish
to take a look at this if you are into any of these areas. I cannot speak
for the accuracy of the information presented, since I am not a cooking
person, but still, take a look at it anyway. Perhaps someone out there
with greater expertise might be able to speak on whether this is a good
book or no? Anyone?

YIS,
Lady Saradwen Ariandalen
Marche of Gwyntarian
(Akron/Kent, OH)--


Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:33:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Wanted: opinions on these 2 cookbooks

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Another notable new title just given a wonderful review on National Public 
> Radio...
> A Mediterranean Feast
> by Clifford A. Wright
>
> The story of the Birth of the Celebrated Cuisines of the Mediterranean,
> from the Merchants of Venice to the Barbary Corsairs, with more than 500
> recipes. Full of history and culinary facts, this is a must for the person
> who loves food history.
> R105            $24.50

this is a wonderful culinary history book.  i bought it a few weeks ago
from amazon for a lot more than $24.50.  but be careful.  the author says
right up front, this is a book of mediterranean culinary history with
- -modern- recipes.  all of the recipes are modern, mediterranean fare.
buy it for the illustrations and the commentary, but don't try to make out
that the recipes are period.

elaina


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:16:00 -0600
From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
Subject: SC - Period Cookbook

I just found this cookbook for sale for those
who can afford it.  The rest of us will just
have to salivate:

FORME OF CURY
Pegge, Samuel J. Nichols

 Price:  $1,250.00
Format: Hardcover - First Edition
Publisher: London 1785
Associated Dealer: Food Words    Portland, OR
Condition: 2nd ed 188 pp VG First printed ed of the
1390 manuscript with notes by Pegge in the 18th cen.
Full leather boards, Front board detached, but text
tight and clean. Superb copy of this significantly
important early text. A foundation of English cooking.
The 2nd ed, about which there is some confusion,
came shortly after the orig pub date of 1780.

Is this currently in print and available at a more
affordable price?

Akim


Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:30:40 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Period Cookbook+ temporary bye-bye

RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:
> FORME OF CURY

> Is this currently in print and available at a more
> affordable price?

Well, _Forme of Cury_ is usually grouped in the larger document we call
_Curye on Inglyshe_. I don't know about in-print-ness, but it is usually
obtainable from someone who carries Early English Text Society stuff.
The one they have at UO is slim, brown, and barely used. Like most EETS,
there's nifty glosses and a glossary in back. I made a copy when I was
working on a class project years ago, and I have it in a three-ring
binder, which is quite useful in the kitchen!

I don't know of _Forme of Cury_ published on its own- it is a small text
and would hardly make a pamphlet.

'Lainie


Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:42:48 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period Cookbook

ringofkings at mindspring.com writes:
<< Is this currently in print and available at a more
 affordable price? >>

Yes, Cariadocs Collection includes this manuscript as well as many others for
a mere pittance (e.g. less than 24 dollars for a couple of dozen manuscripts)
compared to the outrageously high price quoted in you post for a mere 200
year old REPRINT of a period manuscript./ Give me a break! :-0

Ras


Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:23:20 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Period Cookbook

> FORME OF CURY
> Pegge, Samuel J. Nichols
>
> Is this currently in print and available at a more
> affordable price?
>
> Akim

Cindy Renfrow has scanned the Pegge version of the Forme of Cury.  It is
webbed on Greg Lindahl's site at:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/

Bear


Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:36:44 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: RE: SC - Period Cookbook

Bear wrote:
>Cindy Renfrow has scanned the Pegge version of the Forme of Cury. ...

And there's a new edition in _Curye on Inglysch_ by Hieatt and Butler, based
on a comparison of Pegge's transcription and all of the known period FoC
manuscripts, including versions that Pegge never saw.

Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon


Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:16:29 -0800
From: Valoise <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Hi

For Joachim Von Schwabia:

Welcome to the list. Sorry for the belated greeting - I'm a few days
behind in getting to the digests. If your persona is late period,
there is a cookbook from Swabia (from Augsburg) available on the web.
Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (1553) is at
<http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html>

The translation is mine. There are no redactions but from your message
I got the idea you would definitely like the challenge of working out
your own recipes.

Valoise


Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 01:03:52 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - information access / Hungarian cuisine

"Of course, many other people are able to use the collection for various
research projects." This is quoted from an article by Louis Szathmary
about "The Szathmary Culinary Archives", a collection of about 18.000
cookbooks and related culinary material. If I understood correctly, part
of this collection was donated to the University of Iowa and is now part
of their special collections; the other part seems to be housed "above
my restaurant (The Bakery) in Chicago" (I may have got that wrong).

The Szathmary collection seems to be especially strong in Hungarian
cookbooks ("... contains just about every cookbook ever printed in
Hungary"). Szathmary says that Marx Rumpolt (the author of the famous
'Ein new Kochbuch', 1581) is an Hungarian. I didn't recall that, so I
reread Rumpolt's preface. Rumpolt says, that he was "an vieler Herrn
Höfen" and that he learned about the cuisines of "Jtalien/ Niderlanden/
Reussen/ Preussen/ Polen/ Vngern/ Böhem/ Osterreich vnd Teutschlandt".
And, yes, he says that he is "ein geborner Vnger", who had to leave the
land when he was young because of the Turkish invasion in that time.

Thus, it seems to me that we can take Rumpolt's recipes 'in an Hungarian
style' to be somewhat more close to Hungarian cuisine than the Hungarian
style recipes of other collections.

Louis Szathmary mentions another interesting document in his collection:
"a leather-covered document, handwritten on vellum in Hungary circa
1490".

Looking from Europe, it seems that Chicago has at least two good
culinary collections to visit (the other one being the John Crerar
Library). If I ever drop by there ...

Here is the URL of the four pages portrait of "The Szathmary Culinary
Archives":

    http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/spec-coll/Bai/szathmary.htm

Thomas
(I am still collecting 'Hungarian recipes from non-Hungarian sources' to
put on the web sometimes in the new year; contributions are welcome.)


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:58:47 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>
Subject: SC - book & bibliography

I want to share good news with you. Trude Ehlert just told me, that a
new facsimile edition of 15th century German cookery manuscripts will be
out _soon_:

- -- Ehlert, T. (ed.): M¸nchner Kochbuchhandschriften aus dem 15.
Jahrhundert. In Zusammenarbeit mit G. Brembs u.a. Donauwˆrth/ Frankfurt
a.M. (Auer/ Tupperware) 1999.

As soon as I have seen the book myself I will give you some more
details.

I updated my long and unsystematic bibliography on food and wine to
include this title; this bibliography is now on my Marburg site (the
Giessen site will expire soon):
   
   http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/cookbib.htm
   (280K; 1405 titles; mainly, but not only 1350-1800;
    NO SYSTEMATIC ORDER up to now; will try to improve this)

Thomas


Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:35:08 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re:  SC - 16th Century Recipes

Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
>Greetings all.  Does anyone have ideas of "late" period sources for recipes?
>Our Gracious Queen would like 16th century recipes at her A&S.  It does not
>appear to be an issue as to the type of cuisine, or location, just 16th
>century.

While I am sure others far more knowledgeable that I can make much better
suggestions this is what I have in my library which I suggest might both fit
the bill and be generally available with modest effort:

The Sensible Cook; Dutch Foodways in the Old and New World, Translated and
Edited by Peter G. Rose ISBN 0-8156-0241-3

Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book; Elizabethan Country House Cooking, Hilary
Spurling, ISBN 0-670-81592-6

Martha Washington's Book of Cookery, Edited and annotated by Karen Hess
(No this is not colonial American cookery book but a copy of two earlier
English family books with additional out of period recipes included.

Renaissance Recipes, by Gillian Riley ISBN 1-56640-577-7

Pepys at Table; Seventeenth century recipes for the modern cook.
Christopher Driver and Michelle Berriedale-Johnson  ISBN 0-520-05386-9

All of the above span out of the 16th and into the 17th century, some more
than others. They all have the advantage of being generally available and if
used judiciously they should give a good spread, English, Dutch and Italian...

Daniel Raoul le Vascon de Navarre' called by many people many things but by
the English, Leadenpenny.


Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:46:33 EST
From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - 16th Century Recipes

Greetings, Aldyth:

16th century cookbooks:

Thomas Dawson,  The Good Huswifes Jewell... newly set forth with additions, 
1587

Epulario, or the Italian Banquet, English translation in 1598 from original 
Rosselli published in Italy in 1516

The Good Huswives Handmaid for Cookerie, 1588

The Good Hous-wives Treasurie, 1588

John Partridge,  The Treasurie of Commodious Conceites, 1584

A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye, 1560

The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell, 1597

A Booke of Cookry Very Necessary for All Such as Delight Therein, Gathered by 
A. W., 1584

Wolfmother


Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 06:23:38 -0800
From: Valoise <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - 16th Century Recipes

Aldyth wrote:
> Greetings all.  Does anyone have ideas of "late" period sources for recipes?
> Our Gracious Queen would like 16th century recipes at her A&S.  It does not
> appear to be an issue as to the type of cuisine, or location, just 16th
> century.  Platina and Apicius are just a little early...

There are two German books translated into English and available on
the web. 
Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (1553) is entirely translated and at:
<http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html>

Parts of Ein New Kochbuch by Marx Rumpolt (1581) are at:
<http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/Welcome.html>

Valoise


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:39:48 EST
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Seven Centuries of English Cooking

Aldyth at aol.com writes:
<< Is anyone familiar with this book?  >>

Yep.  It's one of the first period cookbooks I got, and you're correct in 
your interpretation - she significantly alters both ingredients and cooking 
techniques from the originals in nearly all her recipes.  She also does not 
pay attention to period vs non-period ingredients.  In her version of Longe 
Wortes de Pesoun, which she calls something like Green Pea and Onion Soup, 
she uses green beans for the "wortes" rather than greens.
At least she gives the originals and sources for nearly all her recipes, so 
it is possible to figure out where she's changed things around.  At this 
point, I use it primarily for the originals.

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:08:57 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Seven Centuries of English Cooking

Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:
> Aldyth at aol.com writes: 
> << Is anyone familiar with this book?  >>
> 
> Yep.  It's one of the first period cookbooks I got, and you're correct in
> your interpretation - she significantly alters both ingredients and cooking
> techniques from the originals in nearly all her recipes.  She also does not
> pay attention to period vs non-period ingredients.  In her version of Longe
> Wortes de Pesoun, which she calls something like Green Pea and Onion Soup,
> she uses green beans for the "wortes" rather than greens.

She may have been confused about the worts for some reason...it looks as
if she reasoned that the recipe called for mature peas and snap peas in
the shell (they're long, aren't they???), and may have resorted to green
beans for expedience.

> At least she gives the originals and sources for nearly all her recipes, so
> it is possible to figure out where she's changed things around.  At this
> point, I use it primarily for the originals.

Some of her adaptations aren't that bad. I still use her doucette recipe
(entitled, I think, Honey-Saffron Quiche), and occasionally the saffron
bread that she unfortunately fails to attribute. But yes, she has been
known to pull some extreme Cosmans. And where in the works of Andrew
Boorde is there a meatball soup recipe???

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:14:19 EST
From: RuddR at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Terence Scully book 

Angeline writes:
>I just got the new book of Scully's from Amazon.com.

>I had preordered it around Christmas.  I only leafed through it last night
>before going to sleep, but it had a lot of interesting information.

>What do other people think about it?

>1 of "The Neapolitan Recipe Collection : (New York, Pierpont Morgan
>Library, MS Buhler, 19) : A Critical Edition and English Translation"
>  Terence Scully(Editor), Pierpont Morgan Library;
 
I have just acquired a copy.  It is a large, handsome volume, full of 
Scully's intense scholarship, but lacking the traces of whimsy sometimes 
found in his other works.  There is a detailed analysis of the late-15th 
century manuscript, and full discussion of its relation to other works of the 
era, especially to Catalan recipe collections.

The recipes themselves seem to have been compiled by a single individual, 
well-versed in the art of cooking, and frequently contain specific 
measurements and cooking tips, as well as an occasional witty remark!  It is 
divided into "chapters" of general foods, meats, "marvels", stuffings, 
sauces, tortes, eggs, Lenten dishes, fritters and fish.  There are also seven 
banquet menus, of some complexity, some of which are attributed to specific 
individuals of note.

Among the recipes are numerous, familiar pasta dishes (just waiting for 
tomato sauce to be introduced!), lots of elegant sauces (some of which Scully 
thinks may be the invention of the cook responsible for this work), and a 
detailed recipe for eggplant, which Scully claims is unique in recipe 
collections of the era (at least in non-Arabic sources).  There are lots of 
"foreign" recipes, including many Catalan and French dishes. I was personally 
pleased to find a Lombard sauce (a simple green garlic sauce with vinegar).

I was disappointed that Scully chose not to translate the banquet menus.  
Anyone wishing to recreate one of these feasts, not familiar with this 
archaic Italian dialect, will have to spend a lot of time referring to the 
very comprehensive glossary.

All in all, a splendid work, and I trust we will be seeing redactions and 
adaptations of these recipes coming forth before too long.  (I'm considering 
making a Papal Torte for Mid-Lent.)

Rudd Rayfield


Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:39:26 -0500
From: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Terence Scully book 

At 09:14 AM 2/25/00 EST, Rudd Rayfield wrote:
>All in all, a splendid work, and I trust we will be seeing redactions and 
>adaptations of these recipes coming forth before too long.  (I'm considering 
>making a Papal Torte for Mid-Lent.)

I too thought it was neat, I don't know why but I was awestruck at what I
considered a wealth of information.  I felt like I was unlocking a chest
that was just discovered hidden. 

I guess I have just had a rough week, but what I found interesting, after
only leafing through the book is that it talks about most commonly used
spices, methods of cooking, more of the 'how/what they did'.  

It made me feel like I could do feasts closer to the time period then I
could just using a redacted recipe book like Pleyn Delit.

	Angeline


Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:34:37 -0800From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>Subject: SC - hooray! new 15th century cookbook!!Its here! Its here!and at first glance it looks really neat too :)...- --AMThe Neapolitan Recipe Collection : (New York, Pierpont Morgan Library, MSBuhler, 19) : A Critical Edition and English Translation by Terence Scully(Editor), Pierpont Morgan Library Publication date: March 2000 Publisher: Univ of Michigan Pr Binding:Hardcover Subjects: Cookery, Italian; Southern style; Early works to 1800 Click here for more information Our Price: $31.88 | You Save: $10.62 (25%) (Amazon.com)

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:08:10 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Mediaeval cookbooks to begin with

> I have also found "To the King's Taste", published by the 
> Metropolitan Museum of
> Fine Arts to be very helpful, with lots of good recipes.
> 
> Kiri

Sass' "To The King's Taste" and "To The Queens Taste" were both out of print
last time I checked, although they are still on library shelves.  I bought
my copies used for less than $10.

The adaptations of the recipes do not necessarily follow the instructions of
the original, but Sass does provide you with the original recipe and a
translation to modern English for comparison.

Bear


Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Brussels sprouts, Rosenkohl // What is "Tyffan"? // Bohe mian cookbook 1591?

- --- "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> wrote:
> I have some conflicting references (tertiary and quaternary sources at best)
> for brussels sprouts which place them anywhere from the 13th Century to the
> 18th Century.
> 
> The best potential reference I have seen is that brussels sprouts and
> kohlrabi are first mentioned in Rembert Dodoens' (Dodonaeus) "Cruydeboek" of
> 1554.  I have not been able to locate a copy of this work to verify the
> statement.  The original work is in Dutch.
> 
> Bear

It was translated into English in 1578 and called "A
Nievve Herball, or Historie of Plantes"

Lots of libraries have various editions of this in
English, Dutch, and French.

You can find this in these libraries:

Yale
Harvard
Library of Congress
Brigham Young Univ.
Univ. of Minnesota
Univ. of Syracuse
Univ. of Rochester, NY
Univ. of Chicago
Univ. of Calif. Berkeley
Stanford Univ.
Univ. of Iowa
Columbia
Temple Univ.
Univ. of Pennsylvania
Brown Univ.
Univ. of Michigan
Univ. of Florida
British Library

There is a library in Missouri that has this also, but
they are new to RLIN and are not on my list of RLIN
subscribers yet.

This book also has been translated into Japanese and
is called "Ensai Dodoneusu Somokufu"!

Huette


Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:00:06 -0400
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Fw: Martino

I asked Thomas Gloning for some insight into the Martino/Platina question,
and this is his response. While we've discussed this matter before, I think
his comments and the references he included will provide us with additional
insights on the matter.

Phlip

------------
I think the latest question about Martino is the relationship of the
different stages of the Martino corpus and the 'Neapolitan recipe
collection', recently published by Scully:

"That the person whom we call the _cuoco napoletano_ was patently a
professional cook leaves room to surmise that he may have been a
respected master, contemporary or apprentice of Maestro Martino, a
colleague with considerable initiative. Some direct antecedent of his
work may have inspired Martino himself; alternatively the Neapolitan
cook may have enjoyed access to an early draft of his _compagno_'s
masterwork. In any case, the Neapolitan collection sprang from a legacy
at some point before this had given rise to either the _Libro de cosina_
or the _Libro de arte coquinaria_" (Scully p. 21).

I append some titles about Martino (did not see them all up to now).
Cheers,
Thomas


Benporat, Cl.: Maestro Martino e i suoi ricettari. In: Appunti di
gastronomia 14 (June 1994) 5-13.

Benporat, Cl.: Il recettario di Martino de Rubeis nel contesto della
cucina rinascimentale italiana. In: Appunti di gastronomia 13 (Feb.
1994) 5-14.

Benporat, Cl.: Cucina italiana del quattrocento. Florenz 1996
(Biblioteca dell'Archivum Romanicum 272). -- Contains a transcription of
the Vatican ms. and the Riva del Garda ms. ("with some evidence of haste
and misreadings"; Scully, Neapolitan recipe collection, p.11 n.27).

Bertoluzza, A.: Libro di cucina del Maestro Martino de Rossi. Cucina
tardomedioevale in uso alle corti degli Sforza, dei Visconti e nel
Principato Vescovile di Trento. Trento 1993.

Faccioli, E.: Arte della cucina. Libri di ricette, testi sopra lo
scalco, il trinciante e i vini dal XIV al XIX secolo. Zwei B‰nde.
Mailand 1966.

Laurioux, B.: I libri di cucina italiani alla fine del medioevo: un
nuovo bilancio. In: Archivio Storico Italiano 154 (1996) 45-54.

Martino da Como (Maestro Martino): Libro de Arte Coquinaria. In:
Faccioli, E. (ed.): Arte della cucina. Vol. I. Milano 1966, 115-204.

Martino da Como: Maestro Martino da Como, ªLibro de Arte Coquinaria´. A
cura di E. Montorfano e con introduzione di E. Travi. Mailand 1990.
[Faksimile und Transkription der Handschrift `Washington, Library of
Congress, De Ricci 153'.]

Martino da Como: Libro de arte coquinaria. Premessa e commenti di P.
Micoli. Udine (Societ‡ Filologica Friulana/ Arti Grafiche Friulane)
1994. [Text nach der Ausgabe Faccioli 1966.]

Milham, M.E.: The manuscripts of Platina ªDe honesta voluptate´ and its
source, Martino. In: Scriptorium 26 (1972) 127-129.

Milham, M.E.: Platina and Martino's Libro de arte coquinaria. In: Acta
Conventus Neo-Latini Hafniensis. Ed. by. A. Moss et al., general editor:
Rh. Schnur. Binghampton, NY 1994, 669-673 (MRTS 120).

Milham, M.E.: Martino and his De re coquinaria. In: Medieval food and
drink. The Center for Medieval and Early Renaissance Studies, vol. 21.
Binghampton, NY 1995, 62-66.

Platina: On right pleasure and good health. A critical edition and
translation of ªDe honesta voluptate et valetudine´ by M.E. Milham.
Tempe, Arizona 1998 (Medieval & Renaissance Texts & Studies 168).

Scully, T. (ed.): Cuoco Napoletano. The Neapolitan recipe collection
(New York, Pierpont Morgan Library, MS B¸hler, 19). A critical edition
and English translation. Initially with the collaboration of R. Grewe.
Ann Arbor (Univ. of Michigan Press) 2000.

Vehling, J.D.: Martino and Platina, exponents of Renaissance cookery.
In: Hotel Bulletin and Nation's Chefs (October 1932) 192-195.


Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:39:55 -0400
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: SC - Emeril on medieval cooking, Regards Dunton's book

>The potage recipe came from the Mallinkrodt translation of Platina; the
>bread recipes came from Black's The Medieval Cookbook; and the "Maid of
>Honor cakes" came from Dutton's Good Fare and Cheers of Old England.
(Anyone
>know this book???)

Got a copy of Dunton's, it is definitely the lightest reference of the
three.  No bibliography, very little in the way of reference to anything at
all in period, most of the history mentioned is quite clearly post period.
The Maids of Honour recipe is attributed in a footnote to "Andre L. Simon,
Guide to Good Food and Wines"

The full reference for the book is "The Good Fare and Cheer of Old England"
Joan Parry Dutton, Reynal & Company, New York, 1960.  I don't remember when
or where I got it but a notation in the fly leaf has it marked down from 39
to 25 cents.

Daniel Raoul


Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:07:28 -0600
From: "UnruhBays, Melanie A" <UnruhBays.Melanie.A at broadband.att.com>
Subject: RE: SC - help with Elizabethan feasts plans Requested

I *highly* recommend BANQUETING STUFF. It's been my primary (not a "Primary"
source)source for the two Elizabethan banquets that I've done. When it comes
to decorating food (and decorative food) this is a wonderful book. 

Now some caveats - it's expensive ($31 US, if I remember correctly for a
rather small book), the dry measures are in ounces which really threw Rivka
and me for a loop in the wafer recipe (I really *must* get that kitchen
scale), and the recipes and practices cross over *way* in to the late 17th
and 18th centuries. Just be careful and read everything carefully. 

On the other hand, it's a great resource not only for the recipes, but for
the entire practice of banqueting in the very late part of our period. It
also relates some of the most interesting social background surrounding the
banqueting practice, and more background on the profusion of cookbooks that
appeared in the late 1500s and early 1600s. 

Now I have to get THE APPETITE AND THE EYE.... Thanks, Stefan!

Maredudd


Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:27:09 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Catalan Cooking?

As far as I am aware, from the 6 or 7 known catalan sources on cooking
and eating up to 1520, none is translated into English up to now (Tom
McDonald/Master Thomas Longshanks is working on a translation of the
Libre de Sent Sovi).

BUT you could try one thing: Terence Scully gives around 30 Catalan
recipes from the _De apereylar_, from the _Libre de Sent Sovi_ and from
Mestre Robert. These recipes have close relatives in the Neap0litan*
Recipe collection, that Scully has edited and translated into English.
Thus, the translation of the Italian recipe could be a rough help to
understand the Catalan parallel recipe (see Scully p. 249ss.).

In addition you might try these books:
- -- Andrews, C.: Catalan cuisine. Europe's great culinary secret. New
York 1988.
- -- Santich, B.: L'Influence italienne sur l'Èvolution de la cuisine
mÈdiÈvale catalane. In: Manger et Boire au Moyen Age. Vol. 2. Paris
1984, 131-140.
- -- Thibaut-Comelade, E.: La table mÈdiÈvale des Catalans. (Les Presses
de Languedoc) 1995.

More books and articles are at:
  http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/cookmat.htm#catal

Best,
Thomas


Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:24:53 -0400
From: Ann & Les Shelton <sheltons at conterra.com>
Subject: SC - Cookbook Advice {long}

I will be sliding over the hill to age 40 in 2 weeks {proof you can grow
old without growing up}.  Since there's really nothing I desperately
need, I've decided to request additions to my library of cookbooks.
After digging around on a few lists, I've identified the following
potential candidates.  Any comments the list may have on any of these
would be appreciated {I couldn't find any comments in the Florilegium}:
 
John le Burguillun


1)  Mennell, Stephen.  "All Manners of Food:  Eating and Taste in
England and France from the Middle Ages to the Present,"  $15.16, ISBN
No. 02520664909.  Couldn't tell from the description how much related to
our time period of interest.
 
2)  Dembinska, Maria.  "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland:
Rediscovering a Cuisine of the Past," $20.97, ISBN No. 0812232240.
Looked interesting, not too expensive, an area of Europe I don't have
any information on currently.  Is this based on period documentation or
just on "traditional" folk recipes?
 
3)  Baber, Phillus Pray.  "Art, Culture and Cuisine:  Ancient and
Medieval Gastronomy," $50.00, ISBN No. 0226062538.   Somewhat pricey,
don't know how much of it is foodstuffs versus pretty pictures versus
culture, got great on-line reviews {for what little that's worth!}.
 
4)  Wright, Clifford.  "A Mediterranean Feast:  The Story of the Birth
of the Celebrated Cuisines of the Mediterranean from the Merchants of
Venice to the Barbary Corsairs, with more than 500 recipes."  $24.50,
ISBN No. 0688153054.  A cook I respect swears by Clifford Wright, but
this book got a blistering review, to wit "A pretentious and extremely
poorly organized book which purports to be both history and a cook
book.  The history sections are, in many instances, superficial and/or
pure speculation and the recipes are mostly regurgitations of recipes in
other (and better) cook books."  I've developed an interest in this
region {Platina, Santich, etc.} and this book appeals to me, but this is
a pretty rough review to overcome.
 
5)  Scully, Terence.  "The Neopolitan Recipe Collection: (New York,
Pierpoint Morgan Library, MS Buhler 19): A Critical Edition and English
Translation," $47.50, ISBN No. 0472109723.  My first choice; a little
expensive, but Scully's fairly reliable.  I have library access to
"Early French Cookery" and "Art of Cookery in the Middle Ages," so I've
never bothered to buy either, although they're certainly other options.
 
6)  Dalby, Andrew and Sally Granger.  "The Classical Cookbook," $17.47,
ISBN No. 0892363940.  Covers ancient cuisine {Rome, Greece, etc}; don't
know anything about these authors, so it could be great or it could be
another "Fabulous Feasts."

Just FYI: all the prices listed came from amazon.com.  You can probably
find better prices elsewhere.


Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:38:59 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Question Re Platina, was Thanks re Florence

Lorix and Bear were discussing the relations among Platina's 
cookbook, Martino's cookbook and Epulario, and Bear wrote:

>There are four known existing manuscripts of Martino, so it is possible that
>one could have been found in Florence at the appropriate time.  While I
can't comment on whether the recipes in the Epulario are taken from Martino...

I've seen a late period English translation of Epulario--Falconwood 
Press published an edition that was being sold at Pennsic a few years 
ago. There were not just recipes, but sequences of recipes that were 
the same across all three cookbooks. There was even one typo/scribal 
error that was the same across all three: a place where there are a 
set of torta (pie) recipes with quantities given, with an ounce of 
ginger in one and then a pound (!) of ginger in the next one, which 
has got to be a mistake.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook


Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 00:27:55 EDT
From: allilyn at juno.com
Subject: Re: SC - Scully's Viandier

I asked Amanda if the Scully she could get me was substantially different
than the Bennet version in Cariadoc's volume, or the Prescott
translation, both of which I have.

>>As for the Bennet and Prescott translations of Viandier, I don't know how 
different these are than Scully, but I do have Cariadoc's volumes so may
be able to compare the Bennet with Scully. If you have ever seen anything 
else by Scully, you know his work is full of footnotes and incidental 
information, a very thorough investigation of the subject at hand. Scully
transcribed the text of, IIRC, four Viandier manuscripts, and compares
them line by line. They are in French but with his footnoted comments in 
English. Then in another separate section he provides an English 
translation of one of the manuscripts.

Whether the Bennet, Prescott and Scully translations are substantially 
different might be a good question to ask on SCA-cooks.<<

So, I'm asking--those of you who have seen all the books, do I need to
buy Scully's book, too?  I do love to read his notes and comments, but my
book expense is growing pretty high.

Regards,
Allison,     allilyn at juno.com


Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:58:30 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Help-Scottish recipes

Cariadoc wrote:
>By the late sixteenth century there are printed recipe collections in
>England, so it is possible there is evidence of one of them being
>known in Scotland. But it sounds like a hard problem, given how
>narrow the window is between the earliest English printed cookbooks
>(anyone know exactly when that is? I don't) and the end of our period.

I suppose that depends on how you define a cookbook. According to The Oxford
Companion to Food (which devotes almost 2 pages to pre-1700 English
cookbooks), the first printed book relating to cookery is probably a Noble
Boke of Cokery (1500) followed by The Book of Kervynge (1508); however A
Proper Newe Booke of Cookerye (1575 or earlier) is probably the first book
that focuses on cookery itself, and was closely followed by several others.

The earliest printed Scottish cookbook was written by a Mrs McClintock and
pbulished in 1736. F. Marian McNeill's The Scots Kitchen is probably the
best source for old and traditional Scottish recipes, with lofts of history
thrown in.  (Which reminds me - Ìt has been on my "must have" list for quite
some time, so now I'm off to search for a copy of the original edition.)

Nanna


Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:55:28 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Earliest cookbooks (was: Help: Scottisch ...)

<< The earliest European manuscript cookbook, so far as I know, is
Apicius, which predates Platina, believed to be the first printed
cookbook, by a thousand years or so. >> (David/Cariadoc)

There is some dispute as to whether the work of Platina or the
"K¸chenmeisterei" is the "first printed cookbook". To be sure, it is
only a matter or words ("what are the conditions for calling something a
cookbook?"). Personally, I don't care much about priority, but the
question has some consequence for Apicius ...

The question is, whether or not the work of Platina is a cookbook. Those
of you who have read or flipped through the book, would perhaps be
inclined to say that it is a dietetic work that _contains_ a very large
section with cookery recipes (that come from Martino) together with
passages on other dietetic matters (nature of food stuffs without
recipes, notes on sexuality, wake and sleep, exercise, etc.).

In case [A] you are inclined to call this dietetic work with a large
section of cookery recipes a cookbook, the first printed cookbook is
indeed the work of Platina, otherwise [B] it would be the
"K¸chenmeisterei" (1485).

In case you prefer option [A] the first European manuscript cookbook
would not be Apicius, but could be something like Cato's 'De agri
cultura': an agricultural treatise that _contains_ a section with
cookery recipes.

Thomas
(The earliest cookery recipes, I know of, are those in the Yale
Babylonian collection, ca. 1700 B.C.; edited by Jean BottÈro).


Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:59:56 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: SC - Catalan cookbook (was honey strawberry spread)

And it came to pass on 17 Jun 00,, that Serian wrote:
> name of book please?
> Serian

"Libre de totes maneres de confits".  It's a 14th century Catalan 
manuscript, containing 33 recipes for preserves and candies.  It has not 
been published in book form.  The text was reprinted in a 1947 issue of 
a Spanish journal.  The recipes are in 14th century Catalan; the notes 
and glossary are in modern Spanish.  I have a photocopy.  I can read it 
well enough to understand and paraphrase, but not to really translate.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:18:26 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Roman recipes

> Leaving Apicius for the moment I'm thinking of picking up
> "A Taste of Ancient Rome" by Giacosa as translated by
> Herklotz. I've heard good things about this and was thinking
> of adding it to my personal library.
>
> Gunthar

I not only have read it, but used it to create part of a feast I did some years
ago.  It contains recipes not only by Apicius, but also by others, like Cato.
The recipes, if I recall correctly, are given in the original Latin, a
translation and a redaction (for most).  The redactions, those that I looked
closely at, looked pretty good.

She also includes some great information about culinary history, food service,
etc.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:32:35 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - "Dining with William Shakespeare"

I have found it to be an excellent source, one that was recommended to me by one
of Atlantia's premier cooks.  It not only contains wonderful recipes, but it also has a lot of additional information about the foodways of the period.  Most of this information is integrated into the sections with the recipes themselves.
All of the recipes are given in their original form, followed by a redaction.
Most of the redactions seem to be quite reasonable.

However, finding a copy of the book to purchase is easier said than done.  I
finally got my own copy this past fall after searching for several years.  I
would up paying several times what the book originally cost, but consider the
money well-spent!  I feel certain, however, that the Library of Congress should
have a copy of it, and you should be able to borrow it on Inter Library Loan from them.  If you'd like, I can check with a friend of mine who works for the Library to see if they have the book and if it can be borrowed ILL.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:57:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Heilveil <heilveil at uiuc.edu>
Subject: SC - Waffles and Books

Was hunting in the library today and found some interesting
books...  The Art of Dining by Sara Paston-Williams. It was originally
published by the national trust enterprises ltd. in 1993 and is
destributed in the US by Harry N. Abrams, Inc.  I REALLY like what I have
seen of this one so far.  She gives the original, along with the source
right in the open (along with the date written for those of us who can
never remember) and then her redactions (which aren't that great, but the
original is there) and any pictures she has found that are relevant.  She
also talks about dining practices, but I just got home from work and
haven't looked at it yet.  The book also covers some post-period
confections and beverages, but she is real clear about giving dates.  
However, there is a picture there that is intruiging...  "A dutch kitchen
scene by Joachim de Beukelae painted in the 1550s" so there's this tray of
waffles, and a long handled waffle-iron like you could purchase for
camping...  Didn't know waffles were period.  It doesn't look like
pastilles (SP), just rectangles with a grid on it like a... waffle.  Do we
have any period recipes for the batter?  Looks like they are eating
flounder too, or at least some other flattened fish with both eyes on top
of the head...  There's also a loaf of bread with some need oval shapes
pressed into it.

The two other books I found I'll have to translate out of German, but I
will try to get a recipe or two done from one of them each day (err, well,
I did say I would TRY).
The one I am starting with is Kuchenmeysterey (Passau: Johann Petri, um
1486)  By Rolf Ehnert.  It's a small book, but a facsimile of the
Kuchenmeysterey with an afterword.  copywrite 1981.

The other is Wildu machen ayn guet essen.... by Doris Aichholzer.
Published by Peter Lang.  copywrite 1999.

Bogdan
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jeffrey Heilveil M.S.		      Ld. Bogdan de la Brasov, C.W.
Department of Entomology	A Bear's paw and base vert on field argent
University of Illinois		    	  

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	cookbooks4-msg	Page 44 of 44