cb-novices-msg - 2/18/15

Cookbooks for those new to period cooking. Cookbook reviews.

NOTE: See also the files: cookbooks-msg, cookbooks-bib, cookbooks2-bib, cooking-bib, cb-rv-Apicius-msg, cookbooks-SCA-msg, DYKIP-Food-art, crockpot-dshs-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:36:39 -0500
From: Maddie Teller-Kook <meadhbh at io.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Books for Beginners?

Wendy Trankle wrote:
> As a relative newcomer to the SCA I have decided that my interest in
> cooking could be about to take a very interesting turn indeed.  Can
> anyone suggest good books for the beginner.  All help will be much
> appreciated.
> 
> Gwen Seis

I think Pleyn Delit is a wonderful first cookbook. It has the original,
translated and redacted recipe so you can get a feel for the flavors of
some dishes from the 14th and 15th century.  The second edition has come
out. It has expanded recipes but I have noticed it doesn't have as many
of the 'original' recipes with the redactions.  BUT, It is fairly easy
to get, try ordering it at a Bookstop or Borders or Barnes and Nobles.

meadhbh


Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:57:28 -0600
From: morgan <morgan at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Books for Beginners?

Greetings to all who recieve this message! and especially to you, Gwen
Seis!

    Another resource for the beggining cook is a pamphlet by Mistress
Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke: Traveling Dysshes  or, foods for wars, peace,
and potlucks.  I think it is a wonderful booklte for beginning cooks,
and I have found the recipes I have used from it to be very well
recieved.  All my friends in the SCA think I am now a wonderful cook.
Copies are available from the author by writing to : Pat McGregor, 3507
Santos Circle, Cameron Park, CA 95682-8247.   Also can be contacted at
pat at lloyd.com.

Caointiarn


Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:06:46 -0500
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #269

>As a relative newcomer to the SCA I have decided that my interest in
>cooking could be about to take a very interesting turn indeed.  Can
>anyone suggest good books for the beginner.  All help will be much
>appreciated.
>
>Gwen Seis

Hi There, and welcome!

For Beginners, it's easier to see the original recipes along side the
"redacted" ones, to help learn terminology.

I reccomend Take a Thousand Eggs or More, by Cindy Renfrow,  and also Pleyn
Delit, Hieatt et al., second edition, for good, accurate jumping-off places,
and enough recipes that are well redacted that even if you can't read
middle-english, you can still cook a wonderful feast or just surprise and
astound your friends.

Please steer away from Fabulous Feasts. Some of the recipes, by admission of
the author, are "made up", the scholarship is sketchy at best, and the
author suggests substituting modern things for medieval ingredients that are
readily available now anyway. This book is probably the most readily
available in a modern bookstore, but it would be a mistake to use it like a
bible, although some of her information about serving and servants is quite
interesting.

In addition, you can go to the Office of the Stock Clerk at the SCA web
page, where I believe there are other cookbooks available (How to Cook
Forsoothly and The Compleat Dagger Lickin' Good come to mind. Though the
original documentation is not always available for these, the cooking is
sound, and tasty, and tried-and-true).

Hope this is the beginning of a huge library of wonderful tomes.

Aoife


Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:25:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - books for novice cooks--??

>Does anyone know of any books on period cooking? I feel sort of funny
>just trying to do a recipe without having read a thing about it. I have
>made shortbread and scones, but that's it. Merci beaucoup!
>
>Isabelle

Currently in print, The Medieval Cookbook by Maggie Black, Pleyn Delight
by Haitt(?).

Often available through the library, To the King's Taste and To the
Queen's Taste by Lorna Sass and Sallets, Humbles, and Shrewsbery Cakes
by Ruth Ann Beebe.

These are good selections for starting into period cooking.

Bear


Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:51:06 -0400
From: Bonne <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sourdough

A good beginning bakers book is "Breadtime Stories".  Sorry, don't know the
author because I don't own a copy. All the whys and wherefores are covered on
the life of yeast beasties; a basic flour, yeast, water, salt recipe is given;
followed by advice on how to slow down or speed up the process so as to fit
the bread baking around other activities; and a wealth of variations with
different flours and other additions. The gist of the book is bread as main
componant of vegetarian meal, so each variation also has appropriate, and
often ethnic/traditional soups, stews, etc.

Bonne


Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:24:29 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Sourdough

At 11:51 PM 22/06/98 -0400, Bonne wrote:
>A good beginning bakers book is "Breadtime Stories".  Sorry, don't know the
>author because I don't own a copy. All the whys and wherefores are covered on
>the life of yeast beasties; a basic flour, yeast, water, salt recipe is given;

Another good source of background info and detailed instructions is the Time
Life book "Bread" from their Good Cook series.

Rowan


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:10:45 EDT
From: THLRenata at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - SC Another newbie question

Glo wrote:
>>  What books or steps should a newbie take to start getting the basics? I
have been to a few renassance (?) fairs and seen how a little of the cooking
is done but from what I hear on this list even the cooking preparation is
differnt. Am I right? Maybe I am trying to make this harder than it really is.
I hate being this stupid!!<<

I recommend Cindy Renfrow's "Take 1000 Eggs or More" volumes 1 & 2. Volume 1
has recipes translated into more understandable English, then redacted into
recipes a modern cook can understand. Volume 2 has more recipes translated,
but not redacted. It does contain helpful hints for redacting them on your
own.

They are available from Acanthus Books (Acanthusbk at aol.com) or from the SCA
Stockclerk. Cindy is also on this list.

Renata


Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:04:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cookbooks

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Nikki McGeary wrote:
> Greetings, all!  I'm new to the list, though I've been cooking in the
> SCA for a long time.  My question is this:  what period cookbooks,
> SCAdian and otherwise, do you recommend to start a collection for
> preparing feasts and where may I obtain them?  Thank you so much for any
> info!
>
> Lady Heloise Noailles-les-Brive of the Barony of Bhakail (Philadelphia)

The ones that I would most recommend for someone starting out are Hieatt's
Pleyn Delite (either first or second edition, although second is a little
better) and the new Odile Redon book The Medieval Kitchen.  These books
include the original recipes, tell you quite a bit about Renaissance food
and cooking and dining, and have generally good redactions that you can
work from (note I said "work from" - I doubt I ever actually followed a
recipe exactly in my life, it was quite a trial for my home-ec teachers).

If you want to start working from originals, then The Two Fifteenth
Century Cookbooks and Forme of Curye are great starting places.  And for
the best bang for your buck, you cannot possibly do better than Cariadoc's
cookbook compendium.

But, again, if you are just starting out, I would suggest either the
Hieatt or the Redon - you probably need a little hand-holding until you
get your feet under you.

elaina
dragonsspine, outlands


Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:46:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cookbooks for Beginners
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Also what do people suggest for beginner overviews?

Bridget Henisch's _Fast and Feast: Food in Medieval Society_ is a great
overview.
-- 
-- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:21:05 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Best cookbook for new SCA cooks

From: "Sharon Gordon" <gordonse at one.net>
<<< Which books would you recommend to cooks new to SCA cooking?  I am thinking
that maximizing foods that were fairly easy to get in the cook's area, and
recipes that could be translated into modern English(or their preferred
language) with the help of a good dictionary would be easiest for starters.
On the other hand there is something to be said for going with the book that
matches their persona's culture as that type of food might interest them the
most?

Which books do you find intrigue your new cooks the most? >>>

I hope you weren't looking for a short answer.  ;-)

For a good introduction to medieval cooking in general, I'd recommend
any of the following.

The Art of Cookery in the Middle Ages
Terence Scully
Boydell Press
ISBN: 0-85115-430-1

Cooking & Dining in Medieval England
Peter Brears
Prospect Books
ISBN: 1903018552

Cooking in Europe, 1250-1650
Ken Albala
Greenwood Press
ISBN: 0313330964

Early French Cookery
D. Eleanor Scully, Terrence Scully
University of Michigan Press
ISBN: 0-472-088777 

Living and Dining in Medieval Paris
Nicole Crossley-Holland
University Of Wales Press
ISBN: 0-7083-1647-6

The Neapolitan Recipe Collection: Cuoco Napoletano
Terence Scully (trans.)
University of Michigan Press
ISBN: 0-472-10972-3

Here's a list of primary sources I'd recommend as starting points.

Denmark

The so called Harpestreng cookbook [~1300]

Free online version (Danish - Codex K):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/harp-kkr.htm

Free online version (English translation - Codex Q):
http://www.notaker.com/onlitxts/molbech.htm


-=-=-

England

Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books [~1450]

Faulke Watling (ed.), Thomas Austin (ed.)
Oxford University Press
ISBN: 0-85991-849-1

Free online version (Middle English):
http://www.hti.umich.edu:80/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=cme;cc=cme;rgn=main;view=text;idno=CookBk

-=-=-

France

Le Viandier de Taillevent [~1350]

Terence Scully (trans.)
University of Ottawa Press
ISBN: 0-7766-0174-1

Free online version (French):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/vi-vat.htm

Free online version (English translation):
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/prescotj/data/viandier/viandier1.html

-=-=-

Germany

Das Buch von guter Speise [1354]

Free online version (German):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/bvgs.htm

Free online version (English translation):
http://cs-people.bu.edu/akatlas/Buch/recipes.html

-=-=-

Italy

Libro di cucina / Libro per cuoco [~1400]

Free online version (Italian):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/frati.htm

Free online version (English translation):
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/libro.html

-=-=-

Netherlands

Keukenboek (Wel ende edelike spijse) [~1484]

Free online version (Middle Dutch):
http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/tx/serrure.htm

Free online version (English translation):
http://www.coquinaria.nl/kooktekst/Edelikespijse0.htm

- Doc


From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions about cookbooks for
	"novice/intermediate"cooks

<<< I've been cooking "ethnic" feasts for several years, but am now starting 
to cook more period recipes.  Bear once told me "If you can cook middle
eastern, you can cook period" As I read through the Florilegium, and
through posts on here, I see several period authors cited, but I don't 
know what the titles of the books are or if they are in print.

This leads me to a list of questions.  If someone was going to buy "period" cookbooks, what would you recommend they buy?   What out of print books
would you recommend they keep an eye out for?  What period cookbooks are
available online?

Auria of Golias
Outlands >>>

For the novice, I would suggest starting with something like Redon, Sabban, 
& Serventi, "The Medieval Kitchen" which has transcripts, translations and 
worked out recipes.  Or you might try Best's editing of Gervase Markham's 
The English Housewife, where you would need to work out the recipes.  As the 
price and difficulty go up, decide what you want to do before jumping in. 
Yakking with me at the Feast of St. Golias may give you some pointers.

If you want to check out transcriptions of period works, try Thomas 
Gloning's website http://www.uni-giessen.de/gloning/kobu.htm .  If you don't 
have the language skills to translate the texts, check the Florilegium 
www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/idxfood-manuscripts.html or David 
Friedman's website http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Medieval.html or 
get a good dictionary of the language, a decent grammar and a pronunciation 
guide so you can try to locate words, phrases and phononyms to produce a 
literal translation.  Hint:  finding the translations is a lot easier.

You might also want to check out the Fons Grewe digital collection which has 
about 50 digitized texts from the cookbook collection he left the University 
of Barcelona.  If the following link doesn't get you the English version of 
the page, one of the buttons in the upper right corner of the page will 
allow you to select the language.  Unfortunately, it won't translate the 
texts.  http://mdc.cbuc.cat/cdm/landingpage/collection/fonsgrewe/lang/en_US

There appear to be some problems with Martha Carlin's webpage or I would add 
it as a pointer to a number of translations.

I'm thinking of donating some pan peppato to the feast this year.  Wanna try 
some?

Bear

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	cb-novices-msg	Page 8 of 9