serving-soups-msg - 4/14/07
Serving soups at SCA feasts.
NOTE: See also these files: soup-msg, utensils-msg, porridges-msg, cook-ovr-fire-msg, broths-msg, caldron-cookg-msg, Blood-Soup-art, onion-soups-msg, sops-msg, gazpacho-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:06:52 -0400
From: Jane Boyko <jboyko at magma.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
The Canton of Caldrithig (Ealdormere) purchased a number of small white soup
tureens with lids and ladles a few years ago. I really have no idea if the
tureens are period but they do the trick of keeping the soup hot and all
tables getting served pretty much at the same time.
Marina
On 02/10/04 09:58 am, Michael Gunter wrote:
> I think the discussion on period feasts is pretty much done so
> I won't go into that. And there have been some wonderful
> soup recipes provided. I agree that bread bowls would be a
> bad idea for the onion soup. Even if they have been toasted
> there will be too much chance of leakage. Bread bowls are
> better used for thick stews or pastas or such.
>
> One thing I do wish to discuss is serving soup at feast. I tend
> to not serve soups simply because the logistics of serving them
> is such a bitch. If it's a sit-down feast then you have to worry
> about servers carrying around a huge vat of soup along very
> narrow aisles and serving it to the patrons. Even if it's the
> "cafeteria line" style where people line up at a table and get
> their own it has difficulties and usually much spillage.
>
> The best way I've seen soup served at a feast is with the servers
> carrying pitchers of the soup and either pouring it into bowls or
> using ladles. This is by far the safest and most convenient way.
> But only if you have access to several gallon or so sized pitchers
> and they don't get too hot.
>
> Just a thought about a rather simple thing that can be a big problem
> late in the feast.
>
> Gunthar
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:32:26 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
What we usually do is to use a roll-around cart or two with the soup in
that. For high table, we try to find/use a tureen to carry to the
table. We find that this works pretty well. If the site doesn't have a
roll-around cart (rare), then we often have servers bring the bowls
from each table to the serving window or table and carry them back on
trays.
Kiri
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:37:20 -0400
From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten at fabricdragon.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] onion soups and bread
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
as to serving in a bread boule.
having had modern soups in bread, i have found that it ONLY works for thick
soups. thin soups end up tunring the bowl into mush very quickly......
*unless you butter them*
if you heavily coat the inside of the bread bowl with melted butter, then
let it chill, they will hold up longer.
Kirsten Houseknecht
Fabric Dragon
kirsten at fabricdragon.com
www.fabricdragon.com
Philadelphia, PA USA
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:25:30 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Michael Gunter wrote:
> One thing I do wish to discuss is serving soup at feast. I tend
> to not serve soups simply because the logistics of serving them
> is such a bitch. snipped
>
> Gunthar
I have seen soups served at the back of the hall where
everyone had to fetch their own soup if they wanted it,
using their own bowls.
Otherwise everything else served to the table as usual.
Johnnae
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:49:17 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> One thing I do wish to discuss is serving soup at feast. I tend
> to not serve soups simply because the logistics of serving them
> is such a bitch.
If there is access to a wheeled cart, sometimes they put a stock pot
of soup on the cart and two servers take it along the ends of the
table. Everyone passes their bowl to that end, and the filled bowls
are passed back.
Ranvaig
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:51:58 EDT
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:
<<What do you mean by a "tureen"? Is this just a big pot? Or a particular
shaped pot? Perhaps taller than wide? How big are these ones that you
are using? Why are these better than simply a large soup or stock pot?>>
My shire also has soup tureens, courtesty of a shire member who used to work
at Wilton Aremtale (the fake pewter folks) and was able to get seconds for us
quite cheaply.
A tureen is, essentially, a serving bowl which usually has a fairly small
base, swells out in the middle, and comes in again to make a fairly small opening at the top. Ours are 2.5 quart tureens. They have a handle on each
side. The idea is that you fill a tureen for each table and give it to them with a ladle, and they serve the soup to themselves. Reasons they are better than a soup or stock pot:
1. They are designed for serving rather than cooking; with the smaller opening it makes it harder to spill while carrying.
2. Unless you have a bunch of small soup or stock pots, using a single large pot requires sending the whole pot around the hall; this way your servers transport one tureen to each table and leave it there. 3. It's almost impossible to loose a ladle into a tureen because of the smaller size of the opening.
<<Does having a lid actually help keep the soup hot? Or does it just end
up being something that has to be continually opened?>>
No idea; ours don't have lids. But since it's only served to one table, they
can all serve themselves and lid the tureen again until someone wants seconds, which might help keep the heat in. The lid would also help to guard against
spills while transporting them to the tables.
<<Are your tureens insulated? Or is it just the mass of the soup which
helps keep the soup hot?>>
No, ours are made of the Armetale fake pewter. If we warm the metal before
putting the soup in, it helps to keep the soup hot for a while.
Brangwayna
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:16:12 -0400
From: Jane Boyko <jboyko at magma.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Brangwayna answered this question in her post. Our tureens are white china
2.5 quart bowls with fitted lids - similar to a glass casserole dish but not
designed for the oven. The sides have handles for carrying them. Tureens in
general can come in a variety of shapes and sizes but for the most part are
wide and rounded in the middle and as rule have a lid which helps keep the
heat in therefore helping to keep the contents warm. As far as I can tell
tureens were designed for soups. If you purchase good china today you can
almost always purchase a soup tureen as part of the serving pieces. I have
priced some of them and they are approximately $800. - $2500. Cdn. I have
seen them in the shape of squash, cauliflowers, cabbages etc. to provide a
centre piece on the table. These are not insulated serving pieces. Our
tureens rely on the mass of soup keeping itself warm. If the tureens, like
Brangwayna's pewter ones, are warmed slightly before adding the soup the soup
does stay warmer longer.
My experiences with soup in the SCA is that it is one of the first things
beside bread and butter to come to the table and since most people are quite
hungry by this point in time the soup is eaten quickly so the lid doesn't get
removed frequently. It is removed, the lidless tureen passed around and then
the lid is replaced by the diners. Then if people desire seconds the lid
comes off again.
What I appreciate about the tureens is that every table of 8 (we divide people
into groups of 8 for serving purposes) gets a tureen (call it a soup serving
bowl if you will) almost at the same moment. Therefore our diners at one end
of the hall don't have to wait the 15-30 minutes to eat when the trolley
starts at the other end of the hall (I have never timed this process). When
using a soup cart and trolley I prefer it to be parked and the servers for a
particular table bring the bowls up and serve their table.
As to the tureens I think the Victorians used them extensively (I have no
documented proof here but for some reason it is an "I think" due to the
number of antique I see in antique stores). What I do not know is how old
the history of the tureen is. When did it come into use? I haven't
researched period serving pieces and it is a project I would like to take on
at some date but at the moment I have too many other things happening. I was
hoping someone on the list might know??
Hope I answered your questions Stefan. If not please reask or clarify
if I didn't make my point clear enough.
Marina
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tureens
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Stefan asked"
> What do you mean by a "tureen"? Is this just a big pot? Or a particular
> shaped pot?
A tureen is a large, squat, lidded bowl, usually china, specifically
designed for serving soup or stew. It sometimes has a matching ladle,
with a notch cut in the lid for the ladle.
Pat Griffin
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:24:37 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: tureen was Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Jane Boyko wrote:
> As to the tureens I think the Victorians used them extensively (I have no
> documented proof here but for some reason it is an "I think" due to the
> number of antique I see in antique stores).
The word in English according to OED is 18th century.
1706 Phillips (ed. Kersey),
Comes from Terrine (Fr.), an Earthen Pan
a. Fr. terrine a large circular flat-bottomed earthenware dish,
as a milk-pan, in OFr. therine (1412 in Godef. Compl.), so actually
the French may have had them earlier.
The food served in one is also a tureen --
Hence tu'reener, a dish of various meats, etc. baked in a closed pot or
tureen; a hot pot
1728 E. Smith Compl. Housewife 101 To make a Tureiner. Take a China Pot or Bowl,
and fill it [with]..Beef steaks..Veal steaks..Forc'd meat..Chickens, Pigeons,..
Rabbets..; Season..every Thing as you put it in..:
Then put in a quart of Gravy,..and cover it close with a Lid of Puff-paste...
Eight hours will bake it.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:33:35 -0700
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Soups, tureens, and cost
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> If you purchase good china today you can
> almost always purchase a soup tureen as part of the serving pieces. I have
> priced some of them and they are approximately $800. - $2500. Cdn. I have
> seen them in the shape of squash, cauliflowers, cabbages etc. to provide a
> centre piece on the table. These are not insulated serving pieces. Our
> tureens rely on the mass of soup keeping itself warm. If the tureens, like
> Brangwayna's pewter ones, are warmed slightly before adding the soup the soup
> does stay warmer longer.
Our Barony purchased 10 2.5 quart tureens made of plain white china once.
They came with a lid with a cut out to accommodate a ladle. They cost about
$10 each, but then we were near a big porcelain factory and these were
blemished (not cracked) seconds.
Realizing that not everyone is anywhere near Kaiser Porcelain, there is
still the possibility of checking with a wholesaler who supplies Hotels or
high class restaurants. If your group maintains a feast stash, they might
well be a good investment for years to come.
Certainly tureens don't have to be made of china or pewter or cost hundreds
of dollars :-) The biggest problem is storage afterwards.
The trick with warming the dishes first works very well with your personal
thermos too. I usually pour boiling water into my big jug that I transport
things like soups or other liquids in for office pot lucks - let it sit for
a few minutes covered, pour it out and put in the hot whatever (wide mouth
big jugs work for roasts as well). The wrapped thermos keeps things hot for
several hours longer - of course things tend to keep cooking for that time
too, so if you want a rare roast you want to keep that in mind.
Regina
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:26:20 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Soups, tureens, and cost
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Our Barony purchased 10 2.5 quart tureens made of plain white china once.
> They came with a lid with a cut out to accommodate a ladle. They cost about
> $10 each, but then we were near a big porcelain factory and these were
> blemished (not cracked) seconds.
Last year, Dollar General (or maybe it was Family Dollar) was selling
smallish, lidded tureens for about $4 each. :)
However, I would never buy them for my group. For one thing, the more
things the group has, the more they complain about storage. Furthermore,
they aren't very reliable about breakable objects. :)
--
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:29:23 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Serving Soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
[I had asked questions about tureens and after answering, someone asked whether this answered by questions, to which I replied. - Stefan]
> Yes, it does. Thank you everyone who answered my questions. This does
> sound like a good way to serve soups and stews at SCA feasts, although
> the quantity needed is large. Which means a fair amount of storage
> space is needed to store them as well as a bit of money to buy them in
> the first place. I guess some of this could be helped by buying ones
> large enough to serve two tables instead of one, so long as they then
> aren't so heavy that two people can't carry one. The shape, handles and
> lid do seem to be optimum for this use over other pots.
It's really optimum to have one per table. For a feast for 200 in tables
of 8, that's 25 containers, but most feasts I've experienced are less
than 160 diners...
If one doesn't have tureens, ceramic, wood or other non-metal containers
are best. Not only will metal containers or pots burn the server's
fingers, they bleed heat continuously thus cooling the contents down
quickly.
--
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 11:23:44 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Soup at feasts
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> one person began to gripe [admittedly, mildly] about a lack of
> soup on my menu.
>
> As it happens, I did not add a soup to the menu, but Mistress Andrea did
> add one to hers, for the dayboard. The gentle who had requested it
> proceeded to show up late and almost missed it.
>
> Adamantius
I never served soup at my feasts, mainly because most of the time
my feasts fed several hundred people and the logistics of serving
soup never seemed to to warrant it when other dishes could be
done just as well. I've had soup but it always seemed rather hazardous.
Often a couple of people hauling around a large pot of hot liquid in
close quarters or something equally scary. There was one feast where
they went around with large pitchers and that seemed to work.
Now if I were serving from a kitchen or directly from a cooking area
it's not so bad. And I remember Atenveldt's War Practice Soup kitchen
with particular fondness. The only time I can remember serving soup
at one of my feasts was when we did the open kitchen at our Black
Oak Keep championships and served out of a huge iron cauldron on
the fire. That was fun.
I love soup though, I just shudder at figuring out how to serve it to
a large crowd.
Gunthar
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:29:08 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Soup at feasts
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I love the soups served at feasts here in the West. Just had the most
incredible broth (served from a pitcher to each diner). A cart with the big
pot and ladle brought around the tables seems to work fine and keeps the
drips contained therein. A thick soup also reduces any slopping when
passing the bowls back. I haven't encountered any problems and I don't see
the concern. Have you seen some bad spills or something? I think a soup is
a really good dish for a feast and miss it when there isn't one.
> I love soup though, I just shudder at figuring out how to serve it to
> a large crowd.
>
> Gunthar
<the end>