on-r-offboard-msg - 9/17/01 Comments on allowing non-paying/non-eating folks to attend SCA feasts. NOTE: See also the files: headcooks-msg, Fst-Managemnt-art, feast-serving-msg, feast-ideas-msg, dayboards-msg, prim-sit-fsts-msg, pot-luck-fsts-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:10:12 -0400 From: "Christine Seelye-King" Subject: RE: SC - Opinions? > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of > allowing people to attend the feast and not purchase the food. > > Some argue that the venue and entertainment is as much the > product as the food, and all attendees should be paid. > > Others argue that the more who attend all add to the environment, > and also that those who cannot afford or cannot eat the food for > other reasons should not be excluded from such social bonding and > enterainments. > > What does everyone here think? Anyone ever done any thinking > along these lines? > > -Aleska For us, it is not a matter of letting folks in for the atmosphere if theyhaven't paid, our feast cut-offs are based on the amount of space we have tocomfortably seat diners. So, if we cut off at 175 or 200, that's all thefolks that we can fit into a hall. When we have Traveller's Feasts orBelow the Salt Feasts, they are served separately, either outside or at aseparate pavillion. Christianna Meridies Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 02:03:02 EDT From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? solstice at moscow.com writes: > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of allowing people > to attend the feast and not purchase the food. In Atlantia, we generally used to set up some tables in the back of the hall for off-board people. They cannot sit at the regular tables with those who have bought the feast, it would cause too much confusion and be an irritant to the kitchen as regards portion control. But whenever hall space allowed, we did have the "cheap seats" in the back. That way those who wished to eat communally with their households, had dietary reasons for not eating the foods served or those who were watching their funds could be still be part of things. I've been in exile from Atlantia for a while, but I would imagine that is still the case... In Trimaris, it seems that a lot of the populace chooses not to buy feast in favor of eating in their camps with household and friends. Most of the kingdom events run close to 800-1,000 people and I have been told that feasters usually run to about 250 or so but I have not been able to get to many of the bigger events. For the event I cooked in my shire back in October, about 50 stayed for the feast and we had room if any wanted to eat on their own, but I never heard from anyone asking for space. Ilaria Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:09:27 -0700 From: "Laura C. Minnick" Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? Solstice Studios wrote: > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of allowing people to attend the feast and not purchase the food. > Some argue that the venue and entertainment is as much the product as the food, and all attendees should be paid. > Others argue that the more who attend all add to the environment, and also that those who cannot afford or cannot eat the food for other reasons should not be excluded from such social bonding and enterainments. > What does everyone here think? Anyone ever done any thinking along these lines? What I have seen done is 'on-board' and 'off-board' prices- that is, eating and not eating. The non eaters don't pay a share of the food, but they are taking advantage of the the facilities- the building, lights, restrooms, etc, and as the event won't happen without these things, they should pay a shre. It is usually a very nominal fee however- $3-5 or so. 'Lainie Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:11:41 -0700 From: James Prescott Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? At 22:52 -0700 2001-04-18, Solstice Studios wrote: > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of allowing people to attend the feast and not purchase the food. Groups in An Tir frequently offer both 'on board' (paid food $12) and 'off board' (paid site only $5, no food, or bring-your-own) options at feasts. - -- Thorvald Grimsson / James Prescott (PGP user) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:06:55 -0500 From: "mike young" Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? Here in Ansteorra, for the most part, we set up tables for feast and everyone sits wherever they want...we provide feast tokens but they are very seldom checked...it is pretty much an "on your honor" kinda thing to tell the server you didn't buy feast. Site and feast fees are usually separate...prices usually range from 5-10$. Site and feast together for a person will be about 10 dollars for most events and there is usually a family max of 30$. gwyneth B. Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenne Heise Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of allowing > people to attend the feast and not purchase the food. > Groups in An Tir frequently offer both 'on board' (paid food $12) > and 'off board' (paid site only $5, no food, or bring-your-own) > options at feasts. Historically, the group I'm in has offered off-board seating at the feast for our January event (at other events with feasts we generally fill the hall to capacity). I co-autocratted the event this year and found that it worked somewhat. However, it did cause a bit of a headache in terms of setting up the tables for the feast and directing the servers. (One off-board table was of kids, who _almost_ succeeded in diverting a tray of the first course to themselves by pitiful looks... until their mommies noticed!) -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:15:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenne Heise Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? > What I have seen done is 'on-board' and 'off-board' prices- that is, > eating and not eating. The non eaters don't pay a share of the food, but > they are taking advantage of the facilities- the building, lights, > restrooms, etc, and as the event won't happen without these things, they > should pay a share. It is usually a very nominal fee however- $3-5 or so. In my area, on-board is usually 'feast included' and off-board is 'no feast included' but I've also seen on-board (feast and all food), off-board (no feast but feast seating, OR sometimes no feast but other meals), and outboard (no feast, no seating, and sometimes no meals at all). I guess it's what you're used to; I like it best when there are only two levels of pricing: site fee including all meals but feast, and an additional feast fee. But there are others who feel that the feast fee shouldn't include the cost of other meals, as they don't eat those other meals. - -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at mail.browser.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:47:12 -0500 From: "Michael Newton" Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? The Problem I have with Off-board is that it encourages people to run to the local McD's or KFC, pick your favorite Fast food place, and then bring that back to eat so that they don't miss anything. Not only does this take away from the atmosphere of the feast but if you can afford Col. Chicken you can generally, in my Kingdom anyway Calontir, afford to eat the feast. Now if you are allegeric to most of the feast that is different. Or you have picky children, and not every event has a children's feast, that is also acceptable. But just to come to feast and eat a Big Mac. NO don't even do that! Thorbjorn Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:18:23 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? Michael Newton wrote: > The Problem I have with Off-board is that it encourages people to run to the > local McD's or KFC, pick your favorite Fast food place, and then bring that > back to eat so that they don't miss anything. Not only does this take away > from the atmosphre of the feast but if you can afford Col. Chicken you can > generally, in my Kingdom anyway Calontir, afford to eat the feast. Now if > you are allegeric to most of the feast that is different. Or you have picky > children, and not every event has a children's feast, that is also > acceptable. But just to come to feast and eat a Big Mac. NO don't even do > that! Well, apart [perhaps] from the time Crown Prince (at the time) Horic and Leah and their entire entourage brought their off-board meal in from White Castle _and_ Burger King (they said they liked the White Castle bags and wrappers, but preferred the Burger King crowns) at some event or other, I'd find the bringing in of blatantly commercial fast food rather offensive, and in an autocrat's place, I'd have no hesitation about treating it like a can of Coke: if I don't see it and don't know about it, I can't object to it, can I? Otherwise, get it the h*** outta here. Before people ask why I might tolerate this behavior on the part of Horic and Leah, I can only plead that if you _knew_ them, you wouldn't ask. Adamantius Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:14:33 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? Whenever and wherever we have room, we always allow for "off board" as well as "on board", and those off board only pay the site fee, whatever that may be. This is a custom in Atlantia that has been around since long before I "joined up". I can't imagine in being otherwise. Occasionally, however, we just don't have enough room to allow for off board folks, so we have to limit that. The other problem we've encountered is trying to serve those who are on board when they are intermingled with those who have not paid for the feast. So we do usually separate them from the folks who have paid. Kiri Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:19:52 -0400 From: "micaylah" Subject: Re: SC - Opinions? > I am curious to get opinions or experiences on the issue of allowing > people to attend the feast and not purchase the food. In Ealdormere it is usual for our events (space permitting) to have on- and off- board. I have no problem with folks wanting to share their own endeavours and indeed have done my own off-board "feasts" on occasion. Last one I did was for 15 or so people complete with roast beef and black grape sauce et al. I was allowed to plug my crock pot in in the kitchen and use the microwave to heat up the previously made sauce. There seems to be no animosity in this kingdom as far as I can tell for this activity. As for the entertainment issue, this is a game, and don't feel there should be a charge for being on the receiving end of a gift given freely and without gain. Micaylah Edited by Mark S. Harris on-r-offboard-msg Page 5 of 5