feast-serving-msg - 2/24/08 Ideas for serving feasts. Suggestions on how to organize for feast serving. NOTE: See also the files: feasts-msg, feast-decor-msg, feast-ideas-msg, feast-menus-msg, fst-disasters-msg, p-menus-msg, pot-luck-fsts-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:32:37 EDT Subject: SC - Re: Feast Logistics Sir Gunthar writes: >> Before I really blew up, another member of our party took care of the matter by talking with the head server. The reason for this story is that IMHO a Head Cook's main duty lies in the enjoyment of the feasters. I truly understand the stresses involved in cooking a feast but there should always be someone to take care of the little disasters that always happen during feasts.<< One of the 'easiest' feasts I ever served was due to Lady Catriona of Silver Rylle, EK, who took it upon herself to 'train' the servers. Not all were from our shire. She got from me the specifics of exactly which serving platters and bowls and serving utensils needed to be gotten back to the kitchen quickly in order to be washed and ready for the next course, just how many slices/ladles/et al were available for each diner, which foods might have extras for refills--in short, everything a server might need to know. She had a list of the people for whom there were special preparations--no mushrooms, or no whatever-allergies--and she did all the talking to the servers and supervised. At the last minute, the Feast Master is at the busiest, checking everything and co-ordinating everything in the kitchen. Having someone like Cat take over is truly a blessing. The problem lies in the fact that most people don't want to be away from their friends during feast, or let their own food get cold while they work. Finding such a person to do that job is not easy. Some shires in the East give 1/2 price or even free feasts to servers in order to get servers. They show up just before feast and there is not enough time to 'work with' them. The last feast I did, I told the soup servers that was all the soup. They were back in a few minutes, having served 1/3 the tables with large amounts, and they wanted more. That gives the Feast Master a bad rep, and isn't fair. If you can develop a good corps of servers, do so for your own peace of mind and that of your diners. Allison Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:40:26 -0500 From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter) Subject: Re: SC - feasts in each Kingdom Also, on the interkingdom feast anthropology. Another thing which is beginning to catch on is what I did for Coronation. Servers paid half price for feast and I served them the complete meal before the feast began. The servers were then assigned tables and told to make them happy. The benefits to this were varied, the servers were fed so could concentrate on their wards, they knew what each course was and so could answer questions, (hopefully) they knew they were appreciated by both the Cooks and their tables, and also there was very little confusion about what and who went where. Gunthar Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:34:17 -0500 From: Debra Hense <debh at microware.com> Subject: SC - RE: allergies - long-winded response <snip> By the way, for servers, I always make an extra table serving or two of everything for the servers specifically. And they have a special area set aside in the kitchen, or to the back of the serving hall, where they can sit and enjoy the exact same food as the feast goers. Or, they are allowed to sit one at each table where they are serving and so may eat with the feasters. They are never allowed to make do with what comes back or what is left over. They are doing me a tremendous favor for no pay, the least I can do is make sure they get to eat well. Kateryn de Develyn debh at microware.com From: dvick at crl.COM (Donald E. Vick) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: how to present boar's head dinner? Date: 22 Jul 1997 23:47:52 -0400 In article <Pine.A41.3.95b.970722160746.82710B-100000 at homer08.u.washington.edu> you write: >Hello: I just stumbled across this newsgroup and was wondering if anyone >knew of a resource (or actually knows the answer) that tells how a boar's >head dinner would be prepared and presented. I have found medieval >cookbooks with recipes but no books on the art or presentation.....what a >set table would be like, which accompaniments, you know, the works. If >anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great. Thanks! Believe it or not, there is a very detailed description of how to serve a boar's head in a modern cookbook - "The Joy of Cooking". It's in the chapter on game and you should be able to find the book in any library or bookstore. Hugh the Barefoot Barony of the South Downs, Meridies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Thaddaeus Vick, Linguist to the Masses | dvick at crl.com | | | | | I could be wrong. After all, there's | | | a first time for everything. | http://www.crl.com/~dvick | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: how to present boar's head dinner? Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:35:04 -0400 Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 22-Jul-97 Re: how to present boar's h.. by Donald E. Vick at crl.COM > Believe it or not, there is a very detailed description of how to > serve a boar's head in a modern cookbook - "The Joy of Cooking". It's > in the chapter on game and you should be able to find the book in any > library or bookstore. Speaking of cookbooks, Terence Scully's translation of Chiquarts "On Cookery" (a 15th C French cookbook) has a few pages on presenting a boar's head. Describes how to cook it, how to endore (is that the word?) it, about putting the banner of the lord you are serving it in front of on the head, and about how to make it breath fire. One of these days when I get really ambitious, I'm going to try it. toodles, margaret Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:40:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: SC - Hand washing ritual at feasts Meriel of the Marsh asked about hand washing. We would love to know just how this is done. Should the servers go around to each seated person with pitchers of scented water and a towel of sorts, with a helper to catch it in a suitable container; do just the fingers get washed ritually or is it both hands properly; and when does one time it for, so that the food doesn't cold in the process and there's an awful hiatus?! Or what and how, please? Ah, laving. If I recall correctly John Russell's Book of Nurture (primary source) and Henisch's book Fast and Feast (secondary source) all discuss laving ceremonies. Gervase Markham (I think) has a recipe for scented water for laving, which I have been meaning to make for quite some time now. Generally around here, we reserve it for high table, and individual tables may do so as they wish. A pitcher with laving water, and a catch bowl are carried by a servitor, who also has a towel over one arm. Hands are held over the bowl, and water is trickled over them from the pitcher, and the guest dries their own hands on the towel. I am right handed: so the towel goes over the left arm, and the bowl in the left hand. We do this about 5 minutes before the meal begins. Trivia on serving. Didja know that proper table service in a restaurant is to serve food over the left shoulder, and to take away empty plates from the diners right side? This comes from period. The proper way to sit at table is to take a long napkin, and drape it over the left shoulder and across the lap, and to pull the long tablecloth up, and over the lap as well. Full bowls can be served over the left shoulder, and if they spill, they hit the napkin. Last year, at the Pennsic Royalty Dinner, the East gave out commemorative napkins. Princess Elspeth and Baron Steffan (of the East) were the only people at the table to properly lay them over their left shoulders. I had to thank them for making my day. And when I did, I noticed that they also had the nappery drawn over their laps. I told their server to please serve them over the left, and take away from the right. Tibor Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:05:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Hand washing ritual at feasts Meriel of the Marsh writes: > ... I haven't managed to find > anything on washing hands at feasts. > We would love to know just how this is done. Should the servers go > around to each seated person with pitchers of scented water and a > towel of sorts, with a helper to catch it in a suitable container; do just the > fingers get washed ritually or is it both hands properly; and when does > one time it for, so that the food doesn't cold in the process and there's an > awful hiatus?! Or what and how, please? I've only been to two or three feasts where this was done. One was the Midrealm Cooks' Collegium in 1992 or 1993. Only a few dozen people were there, so it didn't delay things terribly. I think we had two servers go around with ewer, basin, and towel. The second was a dinner for twenty or so in Enchanted Ground at Pennsic, 1995, with (by strange coincedence) largely the same collection of people. It can work, if you have a high enough ratio of servers to diners. A compromise, for when you have few servers or lots of diners, is to put finger-bowls of scented water on all the tables in advance. In re the food getting cold: my understanding is that most medieval cooking was done a significant distance away from the feast hall, often in a separate building, and that most of it was close to room temperature by the time it was served. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 14:41:16 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Serving at a Feast Bonnie L. Clapshaw wrote: > I am looking for advise or suggestions regarding feast servers. > > I am in charge of the servers during the feast at AnTir's Fall Crown > Council this November. I would like to have the Head Table served as > period as possible. My understanding (to date) is that only those of > high enough rank served the King and Queen when they dined and that > some jobs had a specific title and person such as a Carver. > > Is this true? Where would be a good place to start researching? Check Bridget Anne Henisch's "Fast and Feast", Terence Scully's "The Art of Cookery in the Middle Ages", and last, but (surprisingly enough) not least, the Larousse Gastronomique entry entitled "Ecuyer Tranchant". This last is an office that reached its height of complex responsibility (and commensurate perks) in France immediately prior to the revolution, but it had its origins in the fact that it was considered a bad idea, in period, for the King to allow anyone but a trusted retainer (generally a knight) near him with a sharp knife. One of my great pet peeves over fourteen years in the SCA is the frequency with which various peer-types leap at the chance to do this job at high tables, only to botch it severely, resulting in an unappetizing presentation and much food waste, which is essentially an insult, however unintentional, to both the cooks and the other diners, who might otherwise have seen their money spent more wisely. So, my inclination is to see to it that someone who knows how to carve and serve is the one to do it, and if you want them to be high-ranking, you can either discreetly inquire about those people's actual skill levels and experience, or you can offer to find someone to teach them, or you can write to your royalty about advancing the rank of those who carve and serve well ; ) . I hope I'm not foaming at the mouth excessively on this topic; it's just one of my buttons...please disregard those portions of this response which come under the heading of mad ranting... Adamantius Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:13:27 -0700 (PDT) From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau) Subject: Re: SC - Serving at a Feast >Bonnie L. Clapshaw wrote: >> >> I am looking for advise or suggestions regarding feast servers. >> Adamantius suggests:> >Check Bridget Anne Henisch's "Fast and Feast", Terence Scully's "The Art >of Cookery in the Middle Ages", and last, but (surprisingly enough) not >least, the Larousse Gastronomique entry entitled "Ecuyer Tranchant". Please, also check out _The Art of Dining_ by Sara Paston-Williams. Lovely book, pretty pictures and she really gets into describing HOW food was eaten as well as what, etc. Also, Scully's translation of Chiquarts work has a neat section in the front where he discusses the titles of the people on Chiquart (big chef guy for a Savoy duke in 1400's) payroll. Good for you for doing this extra bit! From our experience, we find that it adds immeasurably to the overal impact of a meal. - --Anne-Marie Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:03:38 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Philip's Bad feasts >> Too many people fail to realize that the organization of the feast hall >> and the instruction of the servers are integral to making a feast a >> pleasing experience. > >I was at an event recently where I was at High Table. The service was >a little off, when they came out they were wonderful but I wound up >refilling people's drinks and even scraping everybody's dishes so they >could be used for the next course. This is bad when the people at High >Table have to do their own service. On the occassions the servers did >come out they were very courteous and helpful. > >That's why at my last Coronation feast and at 12th Night the servers will >be assigned tables with the orders "make your table happy". When I lay out a feast site, I try to arrange the tables so that they can be reached easily and so the service can flow from the kitchen to the tables and back to the kitchen along an easy to follow one way path. I have the entire service overseen by a head server (usually one who has worked with me before). The head server does not serve, but handles problems. One server (assigned) for each two tables works for me, with two to four floaters (depending on the size of the feast) handling drinks. The High Table is supposed to have two servers stationed at it, to run the necessary errands, but the food is often brought by "hats" not seated there. Drinks are provided by the floaters. The worst experience I have had with a feast was the First Calontir Crown Tourney, where no one in the hosting group understood the dynamics of a feast and the people by the kitchen ate while the people opposite the kitchen starved. Bear Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:18:21 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Re: [Mid] Suggestions needed >: I have been designated Head Server for our local 12th Night feast, and >: I would like suggestions on how best to organize and handle my end of >: things. First things first, if you are the Head Server, your job is to be sure everyone is being served, that the service is flowing properly, and that any problems which appear are handled quickly and quietly. You should not be serving. You should watch and instruct the servers. If you must speak to the Head Cook through an intermediary, be sure it is someone who has worked regularly with the cook. Preferably someone who can read the cook's mind. Every layer in a communications chain introduces approximately a 25% error rate. How are the dishes going to be served? One server can handle up to two tables if everything for a course is going to be delivered to the table on a single platter or if you are delivering one dish at a time to the table (a custom I find appalling). If you are going to serve four or five individual dishes to the table, one per table should work, especially if you have them team up and serve everything to a table at one time. If you are serving individual plates, you could need 2 or more servers per table. Assign a couple people to the head table. If the Crown is present, see if any of the Nobility who are not at the Head Table would be willing to serve. Your people are there to make sure the job gets done. Set up an area to stage the food before delivery to the table. Usually this is manned by kitchen staff, who are preping the dishes, but it may be up to you to suggest/arrange it. Use a seperate set of servers to handle drinks. Usually a single drink server can handle about 4 tables. Check the layout of the tables. You must have enough space for the servers to reach all the tables. Try to establish a traffic pattern, so the servers move in one direction from the staging area to their tables and return to the staging area by another path. Leave enough room between the tables, so hoop skirts don't get in the way of the servers. Be sure the servers understand the pattern they are to follow. Are your tables standard size? If so seat a specific number of people at each table. It allows the staging people to evenly distribute food without knowing the specifics of the table. I like standard 6' to 8' folding tables with 8 people to a table. I often start feasts with bread or finger food on the table. It keeps people occupied while I spin up the first course. What entertainment/court/idiocy will be occurring during the feast? Is it continuous or can you stage it to occur while people are eating? How will it effect your servers and service? Be sure the servers know what is expected and what their jobs are going to be. Unless you have an experienced crew, getting together to talk over how you are going to handle things might be a good idea. Coffee, tea, and ideas. About 1 hour before the feast, look in the mirror and say, "It's show time!" Your crew will have it together or they won't. If they have it together, you get to graciously circulate through the crowd and determine if anyone needs anything. If they haven't got it together, you get to run all over creation straightening out the messes. In either case, you've done what you could for planning and preparation and the only thing left is execution (hopefully , not yours :-) ). Bon Chance Bear Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:40:48 EST From: CorwynWdwd <CorwynWdwd at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: [Mid] Suggestions needed LONG M'Lady Heather, > I had thought of getting one server to cover each table, with me > : helping out wherever and possibly covering the High Table as well. As head server it's best you stay on post if Your halls are anything like ours. If anything goes wrong (which in most cases it dosen't, but little snags DO occur) you'll be needed to direct the troops. > : A sign-up sheet has been suggested (I can't believe I missed this idea, > : but I did!), Always a good idea, and if it's a new idea where you are, have the "Troll" point it out while people are regestering. Also a call to remind people about midday about the sign up sheet sometimes is in order, as we sometimes get caught up in the hurley-burley of eventing. OR if you want to live on the edge you can call for a server from each table at the onset, that works quite well here, and people can spare each other. If it's a big feast and I have a good stable of servers, I make sure to set aside food for them, just to make sure they're fed. Some people I've worked with actually feed the servers beforehand, but that's hard to co-ordanate. Sometimes their friends fill their plates each course too. That, you'll have to find out about by experence. > :and I was also thinking of using something like a cart or a small table to > : hold each dish as we serve it out. What works for those of you who've done > :this before? The cart idea is good if you have them. Especially in the case of big containers of soup. If you can lay out the hall so as to make them usable that is. Better get with the Hall Steward or whoever is in charge of table layout beforehand. With the crowding in some of our halls we often try and ladle everything we can into serving platters and send the individual table servers with enough for eight or ten (depending on the layout. In Southern Atlantia we don't seperate on and offboard often as I've seen them do in other Kingdoms (the few times I've BEEN out of Kingdom that is). Lately we've gone to using feast tokens (A pin on ribbon or some shiney dangley showing who's on and off at a table) because in the rush sometimes people get confused and don't remember which they are. You might also consider this. Corwyn Subject: ANST - Feast Style [was Steppes 12th Night] Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 10:23:05 MST From: John Ruble <jruble at urocor.com> To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG> > kaitlyn mckenna said: > > Yes, we also have similar problems in Stargate...usually we do buffet. > > At Yule we tried to make the buffet more interesting, less cafeteria > style. One Yule we had each table send up one of their own to act as > their server. We had large platters for them to bring up for that > remove of food, and a different person from that table could be "server" > on the next remove. I know my lady has groused more than once about cafeteria style buffet feasts, and I tend to agree with her. I find the veil of medieval illusion wearing thin when I have to stand in line for half an hour while watching the dish I had set my heart (or stomach) on disappear. And trying hard to think of some polite way to chastise "cutters". And trying hard to think of something ELSE to say to the person in line in front of me. And trying very hard not to think of how much my feet hurt. And trying very, VERY hard not to trip the next poor bastard that walks by and snatch his plate. The scenario you described, of having an individual from each table hit the buffet for the whole table, is one I have crossed vary rarely but enjoyed. It is hard on the one running the tray back and forth, though. If the feasters take turns, though, then the impact on their dinner conversation is lower. The average feast has less than the five hundred the Steppes managed to feed for 12th Night. Pick a number and divide by eight per table, and you will see how quickly that feast must run. Loch Sollier did a feast that was half served, half smorgasbord that worked very well several years ago. The main courses were served, but various sides were placed a tables around the hall. I grabbed smoked herring for us all while my friend made sure I was served the lamb & barley soup. Still, I like being served feast. It's easier for me to watch the kids, and I don't have to lose my place in line to go herald, or even worse, cross an angry picket line of hungry feasters. Ulf Gunnarsson Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 17:28:19 From: Ellen Murtland To: Middlebridge Subject: Re: [Mid] Good Feast! We *probably*, maybe, could have combined Hall Steward and Head Server into one position, but I personally am glad that we didn't. The Hall Steward (in this case, Lord Faremanne de Vere) was responsible for decorating the hall, setting up tables and such, arranging and announcing the entertainment, and announcing each remove. He also announced things on behalf of the other feast staff, like Aminah's request to inform servers of any food restrictions so we could serve alternate dishes -- and yes, she and her cooks had such things prepared ahead of time, as hot and as ready to serve as the main courses. Like I said, the whole thing was impressive. As Head Server, I think I had the easiest job; all I did was coordinate the servers, and assist in staging the food right before it was served. Faremanne and I worked together: when we were ready to serve, he would announce the course; once he saw everything laid out, he would give feasters a few minutes to dig in before starting that course's entertainment; during entertainment, I was generally (not always) the only server moving around, and we stayed as quiet as possible so as not to distract from entertainment. The idea that worked really well for us, as suggested by a gentle on the Bridge, was to have more than one server for each table, so that servers could eat when not working. We had two per table, (each table, roughly sixteen people) and servers took turns working removes; that way, if you'd served First Remove, you got a chance to sit and enjoy the Second Remove. There was a little bit of confusion right at the beginning, because I had servers sit at the tables they worked, and people had to move their feast gear around. That should have been handled better. At least no one got lost trying to figure out which table they were supposed to work! I remember someone saying that they had a disaster when most of their servers backed out at the last minute. About a half hour before feast began, my signup sheet showed that I had almost all the servers that I needed, and one announcement brought me the last few to give me the ideal number. The day before that event, I had no servers at all (except for people like Terric, who would only *not* help if they were dead!) My servers were both kid and adult -- it helped having little people to fit in our small kitchen and help bring food to the staging area *smile*, and we had one little guy who was probably six, who wanted to help so badly that I teamed him with the Head Table servers. I heard him talking afterward about why he was wearing that blue tabard, and he seemed pretty proud of himself. *smile* And I could have kissed one lady, who has worked as a waitress before and naturally did an excellent job. Just knowing that all my servers were competent and eager to help reassured me immensely. I swear, I kept *trying* to make them go sit down and eat, and they'd keep popping up and asking if there was anything else that needed to be done! Heather of Shadowed Stars, who can't wait for her second feast Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:52:34 -0800 From: Bonnie Clapshaw <bonnie at inetarena.com> Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [Mid] Feasts: Serving and Carving > Is there any interest in discussing how to make this part of a feast > (carving and serving) more "medieval"? Greetings unto the List, In regards to trying to make the serving at a feast more "medieval", last Nov. I volunteered to be in charge of the servers at an AnTirian Crown Council. Here is what I came up with. The hall had 20 round tables which seated 8 people lined up on either side of the hall and 1 long rectangular table used for the High Table which seated 10 people at the head of the hall. The High Table was on an 18" raised platform with an large open space in front (for various entertainments) and a round "Presentation" table to the right. I had one server per table plus about five "extra" servers who helped out where it was needed. The High Table was served by the Baron and Baroness of the area plus a Carver (a Knight of the area) and a Steward (a Pelican of the area). The Carver was responsible for the presentation and carving of the meat of each course. The Steward was responsible for the drinks for the High Table. The presentation of _each_ course to the High Table was as follows: Each dish of the course was carried out by one server with the meat dish last in line. The servers processed up the middle aisle towards the High Table, they stopped at the edge of the open space where they reverenced while the dish was announced to the populace by a Herald. They then set the dishes on the table except for the meat dish which was placed on the Presentation table to be carved and served with all the appropriate pomp and circumstance. The above presentation was done before the populace was served because each course was to be approved by the Crowns. Once approved the King gave leave for the populace to be served. Again this was done with all the appropriate pomp and circumstance. I believe that the feast and service with well with only a few bottlenecks. I did not hear any major complaints about the different serving style and I got some compliments. It was also very fun to watch a whole roast pig being brought out presented and carved in front of everyone. I would also like to say that I could not have done this without the full support of my Barony. (Especially since I was 9, yes 9, months pregnant at the time and I think my whole Barony was baby-sitting me!! : ' )) Lady Ariadne Melissena Barony of Three Mountains An Tir Subject: Re: ANST - to serve or not to serve... Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 16:50:54 MST From: Dottie Elliott <difirenze at usa.net> To: <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG> Knowing the horror I will cause (by suggesting an out of kingdom idea), I will mention how we served feasts in our small shire in the East Kingdom. We simply had one person from each table come up and get the food for each course. It was quick, simple and didn't impact anyone greatly. Its not as nice as having servers but we only had 10 people in the shire and just couldn't get enough servers. Clarissa Subject: Re: ANST - to serve or not to serve... Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 06:16:11 MST From: "Donald Riney" <dariusobells at hotmail.com> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG >My humble opinion on this is: SERVE!!!!! My reasons are entirely >personal but here they are. I HATE being part of a buffet line cattle >shuffle, it's glaringly modern (to me) and typically the people at the >end of the line starve because eyes at the front of the line are bigger >than stomachs. > I feel that a sit down served feast is much more in keeping with the >atmosphere we are trying to promote and can be accomplished without >major difficulty with a little pre-planning and bribery. >Hasheika Maleah >Barony of Namron I most heartily agree, of the feast I have attended those I have most enjoyed were well co-ordinated with servers. Not only does this provide a meathode of sending equal food all directions, but it can also enhance the atmosphere. Though I haven't been back in a while I Still tell all my friends about Mooneschadowe's feast. Usualy served By lowered Lights, By gentles wearing shire livery, with formal presentations by the cooks to the high table. These are not hard to coreograph. Further I have to say that serving feast is as much fun as being served. It gives one the chance to work with and get to know friends both old and new. and Geting to eat for helping is kinda nice to! :-) Darius Subject: ANST - RE: To serve or not... Date: Fri, 02 Oct 98 08:19:07 MST From: David Epps <icc_dce at shsu.edu> To: "'ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG> I, Zorcon of Lizardkeep send Greetings from Ravensfort, I have followed with interest the ongoing discussion related to serving or not serving the feast at an event. I realize that the format of feast often depends on the type of event you are trying to provide and the atmosphere you are wishing to encourage. A few years back we provided a feast in the buffet style but with a twist. This was not a high persona event. First we provided each of our guests with "money." Indicators were placed on each bill for a specific type of food being served and our guest were issued one of each. Our guests were able to trade with each other to pick and chose just what they wanted for the evening meal. Beef, fowl (each meat vendor had their own grill at the back of the shop), a vegetable and rice shop, a selection of fresh fruits, cheeses, fresh bread, salads (If memory serves there was a choice of standard romaine salad and a dandelion salad for those brave enough) and drinks. Several tents (GP Mediums) boxed in the feasting area. In each tent were two or three food "vendors." The feast area was open for 3 hours to provide enough time for every one to eat at a leisurely pace. Our guest had the choice of what order the food was acquired, which line was the shortest, et. cert. In some cases one individual would bring several bills at once to a vendor for say 6 servings of fowl and carry it back to the table. In the meantime another member of the group would visit the cheese vendor and so on. In short all of the lines were short, the hot food was hot and the cold food was cold. Each vendor and their staff were responsible for cleaning up their respective store front. Coordination between the various stores was provided by the Feast-o-crat. The cleanup crew had only to deal with the seating area. All in all IMHO this worked out fine. I regards to a more formal affair we provided a served feast at another event with a distinct middle-eastern flair. At this event all (4?) GP Medium tents were set end to end, the "high table" was placed about the middle of the tents on a slightly raised platform above the rest of the populace. We placed low tables arranged along both sides of the combined tents with carpets underneath for the sitting areas. All of our guests were encouraged to bring candles. Platters with the entire feast for four were delivered down the center isle to each table as quickly as possible ensuring hot was hot and cold was cold. IMHO this also seemed to work well and the atmosphere was quite enchanting. The disruptions during the feast and the following court were minimal. Having served feast on a primitive site numerous times we have to be creative in how we present and serve a feast for 100+ guests. When it fails it fails miserably but when we succeed feasts can be a joy. I hope not to offend any one by my fuzzy memory or the rosy glow time gives certain events. Zorcon of Lizardkeep. Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:44:17 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers Hi from Anne-Marie we are asked on serving methods. Here in Madrone we've tried purdy nar everythang. Everything has its pros and cons. 1. formal serving, with assigned "servants" who's job it is to wait on you hand and foot. Pros: most medieval, very flashy, food gets served in the correct order, kitchen head can tell servers how she wants it done. Cons: takes a long time. Some people wont get to sit and eat with their friends cuz theyre serving. Need to actually TRAIN your crew or else it ends up like the keystone cops. 2. "table servers", where an individal from each table volunteers to come up and get the food for their table. They then sit and the food is consumed family style. Pros: less time ahead of time needed, can grab warm bodies on site, takes less time for people to get the food on their own plates. Cons: not ver medieval. can be a three ring circus when no one knows who the table server is, the wrong dishes get grabbed, some get missed, etc. No one knows what the food is, or how its supposed to served. 3. Buffet style, where food is lined up and folks file past it. Pros: no organization needed, no time for food to get to plates, once they get to the food! Everyone gets to eat with their buddies. Cons: Not even CLOSE to medieval! no portion control, folks have to stand in line until they get to the food, which might be all gone when Duke Whatsisface takes the entire ham for himself. This can be avoided by stationing servers with large ladles behind the food to "aid" in portion control and answer questions and keep folks from poking the food with their fingers. Also, if you set up two or three buffet lines, the lines are much shorter and the food gets to the diners quicker. we've done pretty much any combination of the three above as well, with some more successful than others. Fully served with trained servers who were also frustrated actors was my favorite :). - --Anne-Marie Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:59:36 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers In a message dated 98-10-19 17:59:33 EDT, Micaylah wrote: << Is it normal practice in other kingdoms to have Servers serving your feast? If not, how do you get around to delivering the food to the tables? Has anyone tried the "a person sitting at table comes and gets it for the table" technique? Any input would be gratefully accepted at this point. >> I have done feast service in several different ways. I'll see if I can enumerate & describe the reactions for you here. "Family-style" service, being the bringing of big dishes of food to a table & letting the feasters serve themselves: Easy enough for the servers to accomplish, but does not allow for any kind of portion control, so people on the far end may not get enough or any of that particular dish, if their table companions heap their plates. "Smorgasbord-type" buffet service: Creates a free-for-all at the boards, takes too much time, and there is no opportunity for portion control at all. It also looks messy, and feasters get antsy waiting for their table's "turn" to graze. "Served-style" buffet service, with each dish being served by a person standing behind the boards: This one works okay for small feasts, say 60 feasters or less, and gives the kitchen steward moderate protion control provided they have adequately informed the servers of what each portion should be. If it's done course by course, the number of servers needed is small, everyone gets their portion of the food, and the time it takes is about the same as it would be for sit-down service. "Individual-server" type: This is pretty much the standard service here in Trimaris. The Kitchen Steward will have, with luck, enough servers to send out two teams, to work the hall from opposite ends (or sides), adequately informed as to what each portion should be. It is the responsibility of the feasters themselves to pass their plates when the server reaches their table. This is where things usually go wrong. It's not the servers' fault, it's the feasters. I served a feast a few years ago where the feasters griped and grumbled and shot dirty looks every time the servers showed up at their tables. They didn't want to pass their plates, they wanted the server to inch their way between packed tables and plop food onto their plates where they sat. This is dangerous when a server has a huge flat tray of hot, juicy meat. Even professional waiters would balk at this prospect, and most feast servers are not professionals by any stretch of the imagination. In this case, it would behoove the Hall Steward to give a little instruction to the feasters as to what is expected of them to afford the servers the most efficient service possible. "Table-server" type, where each table sends someone to fetch the food for the table: This is okay for small feasts, but not particularly ideal. It is, in effect, family-style service, and does not allow for portion control. It also makes feasters grumble a lot about being on the end of the table and pressed into service as the fetcher. There's no way for the Kitchen Steward to know if every table has been served every dish. It makes their job a little tougher than it really has to be. I think it would be a good thing to prepare feasters for what is expected of them at feast. A little direction to the feasters would go a long way to making the service of the feast more efficient and less stressful, if the feasters were told what to do. So many folk just don't know, and this creates difficulties for everyone involved in getting the food to the tables. One nightmarish stint as a server usually "cures" the person of ever doing it again, and this is one aspect of our recreation that can be dealt with, if we'll just educate the populace as well as the servers. Wolfmother Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:09:13 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers HI all from Anne-Marie Claricia sez: The autocrat rather unceremoniously informed > me that we would not be having servers, just a person from each table > would truck off to the kitchen. *sigh*. I guess that's why they call them "autocrates", eh? :) Fear not, kind lady. We can make this work. We've done several banquets for 150 this way and it was OK. not as flashy as we would have liked but oh well. The key is to have a "kitchen steward", ie someone who's job it is to make sure food is garnished correctly, stage it on a couple of tables and keep the hordes out of your kitchen and at bay until its ok for them to to take the dishes. We put a couple banquet tables outside the kitchen door. The food leaves the kitchen and goes to Team Garnish. After they attck it with the edible flowers and parsley sprigs, it goes to the staging area. Small folded index cards, one with a number for each table, mark which dish goes to which table. If there's no card, it means someone already picked up your dish. The Kitchen Steward answers questions ("what is THAT????"), makes sure the sauces go out with the meat, etc. After every course goes out, she cruises the tables and makes sure that every table has one and only one of everything. Us stirring about in the back of the hall, putting dishes on the staging tables is the signal that the next course is coming out. If the server is annoying, we will bop them with a ladle. :) The keys to making this method work, we find are the following: 1. One thing per table. Make sure there's eight servings on one plate, and the Kitchen Steward keeps them from grabbing two sauces, etc. The index tent cards help here too. 2. Keep them out of the kitchen!!!! This is part of the Stewards job. I guess our barony is well enough trained...they stay out of the kitchen pretty much on their own :). 3. The Kitchen Steward is a job that requires nerves of steel, the ability to think on their feet and impecible tact. Its also a very fun job, juggling all kinds of diverse tasks so that the kitchen crew can focus on producing amazing food. 4. Make your table servers meet you for a few minutes before the food starts coming out so they know the drill. Folks wanna do right, but they need to know what that is! So, the family style thang can work, it just takes some planning ahead of time and a good Steward. Alternately, if you have yur heart set on fully serving, one can do like we did for our Elizabethan banquet, where we got our local Drama guild to be the servers (any opportunity to act). They bought their tickets, and we just made sure that they had their own table, and that they got food. They just got to it a bit later. The courses were staggered enough that they had a bit of time to sit and eat. Our budgets don't allow us to do ANY comps, and this worked well for us. Sounds to me like your autocrate is going through some pretty typical pre-event "eek! I am not in total control of this one very important thing!!" jitters (never been there meself, nope nope nope :)). Hang in there, dont kill her, and all will be well! :) (if you're in the slammer for manslaughter, who will run the kitchen? ) - --AM Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:31:31 -0500 From: maddie teller-kook <meadhbh at io.com> Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers (ALSO: testing meals) Margo Hablutzel wrote: > Has anyone tried the "a person sitting at table comes and gets it > for the table" technique? > > I have seen this tried, but you have the problem of how to politely let > people know that the next course is available, and that the person may or > may not have any skill in serving. Some tables will choose a different > person or pairs of persons per course. In addition to the oft-mentioned > traffic jam at the serving area, you can get collisions as people try to get > up from the tables and come over all at the same time. I have seen this type of serving work. You need a bit of organization. First, you place a flag on each table with a number (this does not include the high table). When a course is about to be served.... you call up one person from each table (example, Tables 1-5). They must bring their flags with them to identify their table. When they get to the window, they tell the kitchen workers how many servings to put on the tray.When serving a multi-course feast, you just let everyone know that they need to wait until they are called up before approaching the kitchen. Should help solve some of the problem. Meadhbh Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:08:42 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers In a message dated 98-10-20 16:42:29 EDT, Helen wrote: << If you have the space, what is wrong with servers bringing the food to the guests and placeing it on the plates? I am getting mixed signals about it being period. I know that this type service got popular by a Russian introducing it to "Tend Setters". (in victorian times?) But would, a say a Royal Wedding Feast, be served to the guests or home style platters on the tables? >> Documentably, from about the mid-14th century on, in England, meals in large households were served in messes, with a mess being food for four people. The steward had a book with a list of household officers and the number of messes they received for each meal. Each household officer then had a subordinate mess officer who doled out the food to the individual members of the staff who were entitled to receive food for that meal. The steward also had a guest list, and these individuals were usually served in pairs. The major difference between the way we need to serve feast, and the way it was usually done in period, is this: In period, the cooks made lots of different dishes, and not everyone was entitled to, nor received, the same dish. In the CMA, we usually cook the same meal for a set number of persons. Portion control is essential if the feast is going to be enjoyed by all feasters. The need for tight portion control is what drives most of us to insist on servers taking food directly to individual feasters, this need for portion control is driven by our budgetary constraints. Therefore, since we have to live with the budgetary constraints, and we need to use portion control to do it, we may have to sacrifice a touch of periodicity in order to stay within our budgets. As to your second question, about royal weddings and such, I haven't got an answer for that. I tend to believe that smaller households would have fewer servant-types, and the special meals which took place might be served as homestyle as a regular meal. But I also tend to conclude that budgetary restraints happened in the Middle Ages, as they do now (a money economy being a creature of habit), and it was possible that there were meals portioned out in individual servings by servers, just as we do it today. Most historians tend to agree on the tendency in the Middle Ages for meals to be served for two, under separate cover, for diners to share. There's a lot of literature out there concerning mealtime manners, and this sharing of the platter seems to be pretty consistent throughtout the corpus. Like I said before, a lot of the trouble which comes from serving feast in the CMA comes not from the servers, but from the feasters themselves, who are often totally ignorant of the way meals were served in the Middle Ages. And unfortunately, most of them don't want a history lecture before the meal, they just want to be fed, so the instructions for feasting are often left off the list of things to do for the Hall Steward. We also have to contend with modern ideas concerning health, and for some, the very thought of sharing a platter of food with the person sitting next to them is enough to give them gastritis. ;-) Anyone got any suggestions about how to educate the populace about feasting particulars? I've done "feast practices" in the past, but the Society is so large now, it's often prohibitively expensive for a group to do this. Wolfmother Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:58:46 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" <ivantets at botzoo.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - serving Hello the List! There is a wonderful (Dutch??) picture of a tavern, late period, where 3 servers are evidently dealing with the entire hall full of people - 2 servers are carrying what looks like a door, with _all_ the food for that course on it (ie. one dish of each - presumably a runner would be sent back for more when something runs out, so it remains reasonably hot), while the other one apparently takes orders and serves individually. Anyone tried this? Cairistiona Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:58:42 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - serving Hi from Anne-Marie We are asked: > There is a wonderful (Dutch??) picture of a tavern, late period, > where 3 servers are evidently dealing with the entire hall full of > people - 2 servers are carrying what looks like a door, with _all_ the > food for that course on it (ie. one dish of each - presumably a runner > would be sent back for more when something runs out, so it remains > reasonably hot), while the other one apparently takes orders and serves > individually. Anyone tried this? Our "boon day Meal" a few years back involved burley gentlemen schlepping the food from the kitchen WAAAAAY up the hill on "doors" (we used banquet tables with the legs folded up) down to the field where everyone gathered to eat. Worked great! tho I must admit there was a bit of handwringing on the part of the tired cooks as the fruits of their labors winded thier way down the hill...what if they'd dropped it??!!! FYI, there's pictures by Brugel of the same type thing...bowls being brought in on long planks. - --Anne-Marie Madrone/An TIr Seattle/WA Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:26:23 -0400 From: James Gilly / Alasdair mac Iain <alasdair.maciain at snet.net> Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers At 17:57 19-10-98 -0400, Micaylah wrote: >Is it normal practice in other kingdoms to have Servers serving your feast? > >If not, how do you get around to delivering the food to the tables? > >Has anyone tried the "a person sitting at table comes and gets it for the >table" technique? In my experience (mainly in Atlantia), about half of the feasts use designated servers and half use "someone from each table." I've acted as a server both ways. At 12th Night, 1996, they called for servers from each table - but rather than just "someone," the call was for specific persons - the one with the biggest knife at each table, the one with the longest belt, the one with the largest medallion, &c. 8) Alasdair mac Iain Laird Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie Dun an Leomhain Bhig Canton of Dragon's Aerie [southeastern CT] Barony Beyond the Mountain [northern & southeastern CT] East Kingdom Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:10:48 EST From: CONNECT at aol.com Subject: SC - A plea for help with presentation I'm looking for information on feast presentation--specifically how the food was brought in. It's very likely that I'll be doing the feast at our Barony's proposed event in June--the Feast of St. Bacchus. (Yes, we know Bacchus is a Roman god. It's a joke.) The books I have are all receipes, with next to nothing about how the feast was presented. I'm hoping to get help on finding sources for a "floating feast" or a "moving buffet" arrangement. What I have in mind is bringing out the food in a sort of parade, stopping at the tables for people to help themselves, and then the food moves on. Everyone would be able to help themselves to the food that interests them, and then the dish moves on down the line. The servers will be dressed for the occasion--keeping with the festive idea of the whole day. I also believe this approach will keep leftovers down to a minimum, as a large platter will serve more than 8-10 people. Does anyone have information that such was done in period? Yours very gratefully, Lady Rosalyn MacGregor, PF (Pattie Rayl) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:47:54 -0500 From: Ceridwen <ceridwen at ccgnv.net> Subject: Re: SC - Bones and shells > How do you handle crawfish shells and barbeque bones etc. at a feast? > > Helen I often have a couple servers who will volunteer to be "beggars", who carry a large pot between them and go around between the tables audibly "begging" for "scraps for the kitchen slaves". It is considered a bit of "schtick" and thoroughly enjoyed. Ceridwen Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:43:26 EST From: Gerekr at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - A question on Servers (ALSO: testing meals) On 10/20/98 12:23 PM Morgan wrote: >Buffet is a problem, because lines can get long; things will run out >... or the early people will snag too much and leave nothing for >later eaters; and how to handle people who come late and have not gotten >firsts when some people are coming through for seconds. ... sheesh am I behind on this one... but I don't think anyone else has mentioned the AnTir solution for this one... Things stay neat and people don't pig if you do (and announce it so everyone knows) REVERSE precedence for the line -- if the Queen is going last, believe me, people behave themselves like grown-ups! This is an idea our uppers go along with with no problem, it being a good opportunity to present a good example of noblesse oblige, 8-). Chimene (who may be operating on antique custom, we haven't been very active since the advent of our son, but this used to work a treat in Adiantum, and was pretty widespread thru Kindom Central as I recall) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 03:47:21 -0600 From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com> Subject: Re: SC - serving hot fritters Some people definately had their own servers, but there are also banquet paintings, some can be seen in costume books, where the servers are in livery. There's an Italian wedding painting in which the tables form a U shape. The servers offer food to the diners, working on the inside of the U. It's quite formal, unlike Brughel's peasants, who take the door off its hinges to carry around lots of bowls. There seem to have been quite a variety of forms. Authentic customs, other than inferred from paintings, would be the directions in sources like The Babees' Book, which I don't have. Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:59:01 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - serving hot fritters LYN M PARKINSON wrote: > Some people definately had their own servers, but there are also banquet > paintings, some can be seen in costume books, where the servers are in > livery. There's an Italian wedding painting in which the tables form a U > shape. The servers offer food to the diners, working on the inside of > the U. This is probably derived from the Roman concept of the triclinium, except I assume the diners in the Italian painting are seated in chairs. Adamantius stgardr, East Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:39:32 -0500 From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Serving Ettiquette Thorunn asked: >I am seeking information on the proper etiquette of serving at feast. Here's a wonderful source. _Early English Meals and Manners_, ed. Frederick J. Furnivall. Early English Text Society, Original Series 32. London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co., 1868. It contains the following works: John Russell's Boke of nurture, Wynkyn de Worde's Boke of keruynge, The boke of curtasye, R. Weste's Booke of demeanor, Seager's Schoole of vertue, The babees book, Aristole's A B C, Urbanitatis, Stans puer ad mensam, The lytylle childrenes lytil boke, For to serve a lord, Old Symon, The birched school-boy, and some other stuff. The Boke of Kervynge is especially useful, as it is instructions to a page on how to serve at table. There are details about handling table coverings and napkins, how to carve trenchers, etc., etc. It also sets up an elaborate Order of Precedence, from an emperor on down. I was interested to see that former Lords Mayor of London had a specific spot. I wonder what would happen if we tried to assure former Lords Mayor of Pennsic a spot in the Order of Precedence? ;> Carolyn Priest-Dorman Thora Sharptooth capriest at cs. vassar. edu Frostahlid, Austrrik Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 9:14:20 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Serving Ettiquette <capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)> >_Early English Meals and Manners_, ed. Frederick J. Furnivall. Early >English Text Society, Original Series 32. London: Kegan Paul, Trench, >Trubner & Co., 1868. An excellent suggestion. Furnivall is a good example of the sort of "good" Victorian scholarship you can find: Compiling together a lot of hard to find sources, and keeping all the conclusions separate... As a bit of information, in case it matters to you and these aren't the periods you are looking for, Furnivall's compilation compiles: The Babee's Boke is from a abt.1475 Manuscript. Urbanitis - abt.1460 The lyylle childrenes lytil boke or edyllys be - abt 1480 The young children's book - abt 1500 Stans puer ad mensam - abt 1460 The book of curtesie that is called stans peur ad mensam - abt 1430 The manners to bring one to honour and welfare - n.d. Take what you find or what you bring - n.d. The reward of a man who beggars himself - n.d. How the good wijf taugte her dougtir - abt 1430 How the wise man taugte his son - abt 1430 Recipes - c1480-1500 A diatorie - abt 1430 Dietarium - abt 1460 Recipes - c1430-40 (Hugh Rhodes) The boke of nurture, or schoole of good manners - 1577 (John Russells) The Boke of nurture following Englondis gise - c 1460-70 Wynkyn de Worde's Boke of keruynge - c1513 Book of Demeanor - 1619 Boke of curtasye - c1430-40 Schoole of Vertue - 1557 And a lengthy postscript full of other, not dated, bits. Marc/Diarmaid Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:08:05 -0400 From: "Jennifer Conrad" <CONRAD3 at prodigy.net> Subject: SC - Feeding servers Just a quick poll here, but when do others feed the servers for their feasts (before/after) and why? I feed my servers before the rest of the guests, so that they have an idea of what they are serving to the guest, just in case anyone would ask them what something tastes like. In order to do this, I have the head server gather the other serves in the feast hall about an hour before feast so that they can eat and help finish setting the tables for feast. Luveday Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:08:11 EDT From: RoseThstle at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Feeding servers CONRAD3 at prodigy.net writes: << Just a quick poll here, but when do others feed the servers for their feasts (before/after) and why? >> Our Barony has had a tradition of feeding them before hand, mainly so they won't get tired and hungry while serving others. Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:02:50 -0400 From: "Michelle Groulx" <dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: SC - Feeding servers From: Jennifer Conrad <CONRAD3 at prodigy.net> >Just a quick poll here, but when do others feed the servers for their feasts >(before/after) and why? I usually feed them before, and not always whats completely on the menu. I agree, you're right in feeding them before, but this is not always do-able. Each feast is different. I have also fed them after and even during. I don't think I'll ever do that again though as I feel they didn't get a fair meal by eating on the run. Micaylah Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:45:31 EDT From: Tollhase1 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Feeding servers We feed the server before the rest. That way they are sure to get some. Are able to say what something is like. And also, once feast is done final clean up can begin. Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:47:44 -0500 From: "Margo Hablutzel" <margolh at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: SC - Feeding Servers As a server, I have always hated being fed before feast because (1) it's usually at 4:30pm or 5:00pm and I'm not yet hungry, (2) I'm usually finishing up something else, or it's the only time I have to talk with friends who were busy with other things all day, who usually are not serving so I won't see them until after supper, if at all (some leave instead of staying), and (3) servers usually get some simple token meal instead of the nifty things that come back from the tables, and I'd rather eat what the sitting people eat than just roast chicken and bread. As a cook, I hate feeding servers before feast because (1) we're usually busy with last-minute preparations in the kitchen, (2) they're setting up the hall (often in conjunction with taking down and evicting merchants) and bodies are more useful doing something other than sitting on fannies and stuffing faces, (3) servers are often busy talking with friends who have not been available all day, or finishing up something, and are not available an hour or so before service is to start, and (4) there are usually plenty of leftovers, and they will eat those anyway. So, the rule I have for servers, with the consent of the head server of course, is that they show up about fifteen minutes before the hall opens, to get assigned their jobs and tables and do a quick walk-through of any necessary spiff stuff that the head server wants to promote. There is a table set up as out of the way of traffic as possible where servers can eat, and we make sure there is either one of anything for that table (for example, one tray of pre-feast munchies, one tarte, etc.) or that they understand that things left on serving platters being brought back from the tables are to come to them, and NOT get tossed in the trash unless they are really grody. They do get reminded not to stint on serving the diners in order to increase their portions <s> as the bring-backs are increased by the portions left in the cooking vessels, and the extra items made to ensure that only pretty ones go out. (What, you don't make an extra tarte for ever six to ensure that the scorched/cracked ones don't go to diners?) Morgan Cain * Steppes, Ansteorra Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:37:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Macchione <Michael.Macchione at widener.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Feeding Servers On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Margo Hablutzel wrote: > As a server, I have always hated being fed before feast because (1) it's > usually at 4:30pm or 5:00pm and I'm not yet hungry, (2) I'm usually > finishing up something else, or it's the only time I have to talk with > friends who were busy with other things all day, who usually are not serving > so I won't see them until after supper, if at all (some leave instead of > staying), and (3) servers usually get some simple token meal instead of the > nifty things that come back from the tables, and I'd rather eat what the > sitting people eat than just roast chicken and bread. As a server/cooks helper, my general take on this is that if I pay for the meal, then I better get exactly what every one else is getting for that payment. ie. if everyone else gets a chair to sit in, then I had better get a chair to sit it. As a feasocrat, the way that I handle this, is to have the table(s) closest to the kitchen reserved for servers (and the