cooks-clothng-msg – 5/6/12

Clothing worn by period cooks. Clothing suggestions for modern SCA cooks.

NOTE: See also the files: headcooks-msg, aprons-msg, occupations-msg, p-cooks-msg, kitchen-clean-msg, Medieval-Cook-art, feast-serving-msg, p-feasts-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:02:35 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

Jen Conrad wrote:
> Adamatius wrote:
> >Actually, while we're on the subject, is there any evidence to suggest
> >that the concept of chefs in white coats extends to cooks in period?
> 
> I'd also be interested in this.  I'm currently considering making white
> trigger Mongol dels for my husband and I to wear while cooking.  I came up
> with the idea to do this while making dels for him for Pennsic, and have
> also seen similar styles in mundane chef coats.

Sort of. Most chef's jackets are double-breasted for two reasons: the
doubled layer in front provides protection from heat, hot oil, burns,
etc., as well as providing a theoretically clean undersurface that can
be quickly brought to the front if the chef has to visit the dining
room, offices, job interviews, and so forth. They also often have an
extra length of sleeve cuff that can be doubled back to protect the
backs of the hands and forearms from radiant heat (for example, when you
leap into a convection oven), and even rolled down for emergency use as
a potholder. There's normally a slightly raised, Nehru-esque collar,
again, for protection from heat.

The best versions also have little cloth buttons and loops (yes, just
like a cotehardie) that can be ripped open and off the body, if, for
example, you get your front saturated with hot oil, and a common feature
of the deluxe models is a pair of curved seams going straight up the
back, along either side of the spine, and curving across the shoulder
blades, which is useful for saving armpit seams when reaching up onto
high shelves.

I've found these design features translate really well into a white (or
rather, unbleached, undyed cotton or linen) cote such as you see in the
14th-15th-century Tacuinum Sanitatis illustrations of various workmen,
including cooks. (Have I just answered my own question?) Making one in
the form of a Greenland gown looks spiffy, but, I found, isn't as
functionally comfortable.  

Never tried it as a del, though.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:14:52 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

> ... is there any evidence to suggest
> that the concept of chefs in white coats extends to cooks in period?

"... vnd sollen fein weisse saubere Ha:embder/ auch nicht schmutzige/
rotzige vnd beschmirige/ sondern fein reine/ hu:ebsche/ saubere/ kurtze/
nicht weitte/ zodende/ hangende vnd lumpende/ sondern wolgemachte enge
Kleider/ an Hosen vnd Wammes/ antragen"
(from Rumpolt's office of and requirements for a cook, 1581).

weisse saubere Ha:embder = white, clean shirts/ clothes
(There are black & white woodcuts of cooks that might be helpful for
other details.)

Thomas


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:40:25 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

<< "... vnd sollen fein weisse saubere Ha:embder/ auch nicht schmutzige/
rotzige vnd beschmirige/ sondern fein reine/ hu:ebsche/ saubere/ kurtze/
nicht weitte/ zodende/ hangende vnd lumpende/ sondern wolgemachte enge
Kleider/ an Hosen vnd Wammes/ antragen" (Rumpolt)

Are there more interesting details in that quote? >>

Not really, the rest is only a somewhat verbose statement that a cook
should wear clean and tight or clinging clothes.

Thomas


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:53:27 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

lilinah at earthlink.net wrote: 
> >"... vnd sollen fein weisse saubere Ha:embder/ auch nicht schmutzige/
> >rotzige vnd beschmirige/ sondern fein reine/ hu:ebsche/ saubere/ kurtze/
> >nicht weitte/ zodende/ hangende vnd lumpende/ sondern wolgemachte enge
> >Kleider/ an Hosen vnd Wammes/ antragen"
> >(from Rumpolt's office of and requirements for a cook, 1581).
<snip>
> Are there more interesting details in that quote? Can you, Thomas, or
> anyone else who knows German put that into English, please. I speak
> and read three languages, but German isn't one of them.

Very, very roughly, before tea and before ransacking the place for my
German dictionary...

"and [you?] should... have on... fine, white, clean shirts, also not
dirty, rusty and besmeared, various fine [reine /hu:ebsche -- can't even
guess at the moment] clean, short, not too wide, nor drooping or lumpy
[a guess]... then something about skirts, hosen and some other unknown
noun [Wammes]."

Infinitive verb at the end of it all, see "should... have on..." above.  

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:04:20 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

TG wrote: 
> << "... vnd sollen fein weisse saubere Ha:embder/ auch nicht schmutzige/
> rotzige vnd beschmirige/ sondern fein reine/ hu:ebsche/ saubere/ kurtze/
> nicht weitte/ zodende/ hangende vnd lumpende/ sondern wolgemachte enge
> Kleider/ an Hosen vnd Wammes/ antragen" (Rumpolt)
> 
> Are there more interesting details in that quote? >>
> 
> Not really, the rest is only a somewhat verbose statement that a cook
> should wear clean and tight or clinging clothes.
> 
> Thomas

Probably the illustrations accompanying Rumpolt's text are almost as
effective in describing what a cook should wear. Apart from an obvious
emphasis on cleanliness (either out of a need for confidence in the
cook's hygiene, a sanitary kitchen, etc.), there's an equally important
stress on comfort, functionality, and _fire safety_. All of which are
also modern concerns for the people who design clothes for cooks.

Now if we could only do something about the new paisley pants...
   
Adamantius, partisan of the tiny B&W houndstooth check, not asking for
trouble like the white pants wearers, effete like the black pants
wearers, nor just plain tacky and lacking in tradition, like the paisley wearers
- -- 
Phil & Susan Troy


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:11:10 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: cook's cote (was Re: SC - test- don't read)

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
> 
> [description of real chefs coats snipped]
> 
> So a suitable cooks garment should:
> 
> * have a double front
> * have extra long sleeves, normally turned up
> * be easy to remove quickly
> * have plenty of spare in shoulder/armpit area
> 
> Have I missed anything? As to fabric choice linen is pretty much assumed
> in my case. Synthetics are evil (or would a nomex cooks coat be a good
> thing?).

I agree, synthetics are generally anathema, particularly in sweaty
situations. The design features are helpful, but hard to incorporate
into just any garment, and these features are just something modern
designers seem to include. YMMV as to your own needs. I've gone well out
of my persona's standard dalmatica /coptic shirt and trews, and
generally cook in the knee-length, belted Greenland gown and hosen. Of
course, this is when I know I'm cooking. I'll frequently nip into the
kitchen in much less elaborate garb, or on occasion far more elaborate
garb, much to the annoyance of friends who've helped me make it. ("What
the &*&%$# is that on your sleeve trim???"   "Brie.") 
 
> > I've found these design features translate really well into a white (or
> > rather, unbleached, undyed cotton or linen) cote such as you see in the
> > 14th-15th-century Tacuinum Sanitatis illustrations of various workmen,
> > including cooks. (Have I just answered my own question?) Making one in
> > the form of a Greenland gown looks spiffy, but, I found, isn't as
> > functionally comfortable.
> 
> Not sure what a "del" is (mongol coat, says
> http://members.tripod.com/~whitebard/terms.htm),

Yep, a coat double-breasted/overlapping front coat, frogs or ties for
closure, long sleeves with turned-up cuffs, sometimes with a standing
collar, usually slit sides for equestrian use (doubtless for a quick
getaway when there are problems with the porridge). 

> but for my early (10th
> century) persona there is AFAIK only two possibilities for a cooks
> garment inspired by the chefs coat.
> 
> 1. the short "kimono style" jacket, or
> 2. a tunic.
> 
> The jacket would have several advantages (easy to remove, natural double
> front), while a tunic would be more natural in the material in question.
> I'm thinking of making a garment with a slightly oversized shoulder
> section, and bias cut armpit inserts[1]. The idea of a jacket sounds
> more and more appealing. Any suggestions/advice?

You might consider a tunic with an unobtrusive double layer in the
front, basically a rectangular panel running from slightly beyond nipple
to nipple, neck to knee, with sleeves about six inches too long, after
including a doubled cuff folded in and up inside it, exceeding sleeve
length by about seven inches, so when you roll your cuffs up by six
inches, you'll have a proper length sleeve with at least three layers of
fabric and no exposed hems or seam allowances.

As for bias-cut armpit inserts, I think you may be discounting the
tailoring skills of early-period clothiers. One reasonably
accurate-_looking_ solution would be to simply leave the armpit seam
open, possibly edged with bias tape (this would have been unnecessary in
the days when tunics were woven to shape, not cut). But I'm told square
and circular bias-cut gussets for the armpit are very old indeed. For a
square you'd use an ordinary straight-cut square, and rotate it by 45
degres and insert the resulting diamond/lozenge shape into the open
armpit seam. Same for a circular gusset; you just have to make sure it
ends up being sewn in on a bias so it'll stretch when you raise your
arm. The circular seam itself should help there, too.

As for any problems with doubling the front fabric, a possible addition
would be an apron (theoretically held in place with your belt and held
to the chest with a pin, but there may be a simpler and safer solution).

You can protect your neck with a neckerchief.

The only problem you might run into is a quick-release pin ;  ). I
assume exploding lugs are out, and early-period tunics aren't known for
having buttons. Aren't there Northern-European examples of tunics with a
diagonal keyhole neckline? Ones with a round neck opening, and a slit
coming from the edge of the neckline at a 45 degree angle? Perhaps if
you had such a neckline with an exaggerated, long, diagonal slit,
possibly even sneakily extended straight down along the side seam, you
might be able to close it with something that could be opened quickly,
allowing you to pull the entire front panel (at least the part above the
belt) away from your chest. Add to this a fairly decently full skirt, a
quick-release belt (one simple buckle, no tying) and you should be okay.
   
Adamantius


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:12:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - German cooks outfits from Cooks 2682

Anahita al-shazhiyya asked:
Are there more interesting details in that quote? 

and Thomas replied 
>weisse saubere Ha:embder = white, clean shirts/ clothes
>(There are black & white woodcuts of cooks that might be helpful for
>other details.)

Thomas,
Im going to partly disagree with that being the only intersting parts... he 
is so explicit with what to avoid ;-)

"and should nicley white clean shirts/ also not dirty/ 
snotty and smeared/ but nicely clean/ pretty/ clean/ short/
not wide/ ratty/ hanging and raggedy/ but well-made tight
clothes/ on (as) pants and shirts/ wear

I translate rein and sauber both as clean, and rotzig as snotty (Rost is 
rust, rotz is a slang term for snot at least when i was a child) -  this 
could perhaps be argued, 
but Im assuming he is meaning that cooks should not wipe snotty noses on 
their clothes <G>
Wammes is a garment worn on the upper half of the body... perhaps bodice 
would be more accurate... (I also dont have my dictionary to hand)

Thomas... what page is this woodcut on?  I might be able to take a digital 
shot of it (when the camera is back in, so will be next week at the earliest.)

Gwen Cat


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:03:18 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SC - German cooks outfits from Cooks 2682

<< Im going to partly disagree with that being the only interesting
parts... he is so explicit with what to avoid ;-) >>

I fully agree with you and disagree with myself now: the details are
interesting, too. Thanks, Gwen Cat & Adamantius, for your translations!

As for the woodcuts: Rumpolt has two woodcuts of cooks: one on the
titlepage, the other one on page 4a, where the office of the cook
("Mundtkoch") is described. The woodcut on page 4a is older, it is very
similar to woodcuts in the 'Von (allen) Speisen' (1531, 1536) and in the
German Platina-translation of 1542.

Other 16th century pictures of cooks include D¸rer's "Koch und Kˆchin".

Best and thanks again,
Thomas


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:45:31 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: cook's cote[Aprons]

Jenne Heise wrote: 
> > >To expand the topic, has anyone (female) tried some of the aprons they
> > >show in the German woodcuts? I have a good picture of one that seems to be
> > >similar to the 'balloon jumpers that were fashionable for baby girls a
> > >while back: a v-neck collar with farbric gathered onto it front and back..
> > >the fabric is sewn up the sides (looks like) to make a tube but with deep
> > >armholes.
> > I'd love to see some pictures.  Can you point me in the right direction?
> > Olwen
> 
> I _THINK_ it might be die mode der gottischen frau (The gothic mode in
> women's dress) or in the Polish-Bohemian miscellany. I 'll go look when I
> get home.

It also sounds very like the over gowns that you see women wearing in
the _Manesse Codex_ (one of my favorite documents!). It is fairly easy
to find plates from it if not a copy of the whole thing (they have two
copies at UO). Very simple outlines.

When I'm cooking I tend to wear fairly simple clothing, and either an
apron or a towel tied around my waist. I actually have a set of cotton
aprons with lettering on them that says "Chez Elaine", and either
'staff' or 'Le Chef' on the upper edge. Silly- but they keep the food of
my clothes and everyone knows who's in charge!

An Tirians may remember the Egil's where I was called up for a service
award while I was making the Princess' dinner, and forgot to take off my
apron. There I was, in front of the king, covered with pork grease...

'Lainie


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: cook's cote[Aprons]

Here is a quick way to make a disposable apron.

Take one yard of 44 inch muslim and cut it in half
lengthwise. This will leave you with two long
rectangles. Use only one rectangle per apron.  Cut two
two inch strips 18 inches down both sides.  This makes
your ties.  Cut a slit two inches down from the top
and stop two inches from each side.  This creates your
head opening. Use apron and throw it away when it
becomes dirty.  See diagram below.  Arrows indicate
where to start cutting two inch strips.  Periods
indicate where to cut head slit.

Huette
 
     |               |
     v               v
  _______________________
  |  |               |  |
  |  |  ...........  |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |  |               |  |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  |                     |
  _______________________

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:48:06 -0400
From: Gorgeous Muiredach <muiredach at bmee.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Source for cook's stuff?  (was Re: Very carefully not
 panicking...)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

At 01:04 PM 9/20/2002, you wrote:
>Now that you mention it, can you (or any of the other professional-type
>cooks on the list) point me to a good, reasonably inexpensive source
>for aprons, cooks jackets, etc....

I haven't been purchasing that stuff in years, and all my sources were in
Quebec.  That said, I'm convinced you can find lots of stuff at your local
restaurant supplies store.  The vast majority of them will sell to the public.

>Also, any other tips on clothing (such as the one about shoes) would be
>most appreciated.

Let's see...

Cotton is probably your best bet of material.  Do not, under any
circumstances wear synthetic stuff in the kitchen, *especially* your apron!

Even if it's hot, you want something with long sleeves.  Protects you from
burns and splashes of hot stuff.  I'd say your best bet is to aim for the
classic chef's jacket.  It is not pretentious to wear (unless you suddenly
cop an attitude...), and it evolved to be what it is.

I personally avoid the sewn on plastic buttons.  Having lost one button in
a 25 gallon kettle of Sauce Espagnole and having to find it afterwards made
me swear by the cotton "knot" buttons.

Apron, you want a LONG apron, that you can roll a couple times to protect
your gut, and that won't leave you with what appears to be a
mini-skirt.  THe apron is meant to protect you, so it has to be long enough
to do that job.  Besides, a longish apron can be grabbed at the bottom and
used as a "mitt" to grab a hot pot in a pinch.  Most aprons you can get at
the store have flimsy cords to tie them.  I had mine custom made, but with
the amount of folks who do sewing in the SCA, I'm sure you can either do it
yourself or get it done easily.

Pants should be long enough to cover the ankles and below.  If you drop
something hot, they are the last protection after the apron.  Lots of folks
argue over the colour of it.  White, checked, striped, black, whateva!  I
like checked, seems to hide stains well...  But then, when I had to make
appearances in public, I'd put on my navy pants with stripes...  Who knows? :-)

Hope this helps :)


Gorgeous Muiredach the Odd
Clan of Odds
Shire of Forth Castle
Meridies
mka
Nicolas Steenhout


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:06:50 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...

Gorgeous Muiredach wrote:
>  >comfy clothes
>
>Comfy, yet not baggy.  Dangerous to have baggy clothes in the
>kitchen.

Yeah, i second that. Watch out for:
-- Sleeves with wide cuffs - they can catch on hot pot handles and
pull them over, maybe on you; drag in the food, and, uh, catch fire...

-- Low necklines - hot or sticky stuff can splash on your delicate
skin (or if you're a guy, ee-yew, chest hair in the food...)

-- Long hems - you'll be bending and moving a lot, and you really
don't want to step on your hem and make yourself fall down.

-- Long swirly skirts - that someone else can step on making you or
them fall, or that can knock stuff over...

-- Trains *really* don't belong on the kitchen crew - although we had
someone with one at the Mists Bardic feast, but, then, there were
only four cooks, so we were generally well out of each other's way -
and she had lots of experience with trains (Duchess Mistress
Mistress, and more than 20 years in the SCA).

If you look at Medieval pictures of kitchen help, the men are usually
in short tunics and the women's aren't real long, and often hiked up.

Another thing i'll mention:
-- Hair covering: I put my hair up and usually have a head wrap on,
and i generally request this of my crew.

I really have to make myself some aprons (this time i stained my nice
grey linen tunic on the stove). I say this to myself after every
feast, and then i forget...

Anahita


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:34:18 -0400
From: Gorgeous Muiredach <muiredach at bmee.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

>Gorgeous Muiredach wrote:
>>  >comfy shoes
>>
>>I'd define comfy shoes as shoes that are hard soled and will hold one's
>>ankle safely.  I have found that as comfortable as they are, running shoes
>>of all ilks are probably the worst thing.  At the end of a 14, 15 hour day,
>>your ankle are swollen, your feet are sore, and your lower back is likely
>>to kill you.
>>
>>There's a reason so many chefs and surgeon vote for (closed heel) clogs
>>  :-)  Make sure they have a non-skid sole if you go that way.
>
>So, what kind of shoes? I'm not visualizing them clearly.

Clogs...

Try:
http://www.uniforms4you.com/Footwear.html
http://www.chefwork.com/footwear/chefclog.htm
http://www.chefrevival.ca/footwear.html (which carries clothing too)

>I have bone
>spurs in both heels, so my feet get real sore (ok, so they feel as if
>they are being fileted by flaming knives). I need good soft
>cushioning inside and a somewhat resilient, but cushiony sole, but i
>like snugly fitting shoes (loose shoes lead to twisted ankles and
>sore metatarsal arches).

Lots of people complain that clogs twist ankles, but most of the time it's
because they aren't fitted properly.  I suspect that a good clog with the
proper padding might make a big difference.

>Yeah, i second that. Watch out for:

<SNIP good stuff>

Unless your help is only gonna do 15 minutes, or half an hour, I would
strongly recommend they come with a set of clothing for the kitchen then
their garb.

Gorgeous Muiredach the Odd


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:04:32 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...

Gorgeous Muiredach wrote:
>Unless your help is only gonna do 15 minutes, or half an hour, I would
>strongly recommend they come with a set of clothing for the kitchen then
>their garb.

I cook in my garb, but it's simple - cotton and linen Mamluk style
tunics (not fitted anywhere), above the ankle hems, undertunic has
fitted sleeves and most of the outer ones have tapered sleeves.

Simple tunics work on men and women, and i've had women in
kirtles/cotehardies that worked (not too long, tucked up skirts). But
don't wear your good stuff, cuz food has a way of being attracted to
clothing :-)

Anahita


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 23:10:26 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
>Thanks for the clog info, Muiredach. I could visualize the clogs, i
>just thought there was some other type of shoe in there, too... I'll
>have to see if they have my size. Open back shoes make my feet tired
>(but at least not like hot knives).
>
>One of my helpers suggested nurses shoes... Anyone have any ideas about these?
>
>OK, chefrevival has my size, and i thought describing the icky
>polyurethane clogs as "dishwasher safe" was amusing...

I cannot recommend Birkenstocks too highly for kitchen work, either
the backed clogs (which come in inexpensive plastic, and look
suspiciously like Dutch wooden shoes) or their professional line of
cork-insoled, backed, clog-type, leather shoes. They have several
models, all of which look a little like maryjanes for ducks (I like
the "London" version, which is highly functional and looks good with
garb, in black or brown), and which add at least three hours to a
back-pain-free, mostly standing workday for me.

The leather "London", "Paris", and "Boston" aren't real cheap
(~$150), but save on chiropractor bills, and are available with
non-skid soles. The only feature they might add, but apparently have
not, is a steel toe.

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 00:10:34 -0400
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...

also try www.shoesforcrews.com

Nichola


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:22:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not panicking...

> I'm having trouble visualising it.  If it's a legging, it seems like it
> would be directly on the skin (or over the socks, hence just two layers
> directly on the skin).  This, to me, isn't as safe as it could be.  Pants
> that don't touch the skin directly offer more "buffer" for boiling liquids
> falling down.  Often just long enough to cool down enough to avoid the huge
> nasty burns.  Note that this statement is entirely empirical, and not
> scientific at all :-)

This is why I wear long t-tunics and scoff at people who tell me wearing
jeans to cook in is 'Much Safer'. We had a head cook spill hot water on
her leg and get badly burned before she could skin out of her jeans-- I
had the same thing happen, hitched up the tunic and undertunic, kicked off
my shoes and stuck my leg under the cold water spigot outside. No
blisters.

- Jadwiga, who wears t-tunics and italian ren. :)

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


From: "Rosine" <rosine at sybercom.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen wear, was Very carefully not  panicking...
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:19:00 -0400

   Personally, I like wearing a cyclas. It covers everything from neckline
down, moves comfortably, and can be removed if I need to dash out of the
kitchen to another part of the event. My favorite one is made of two layers
of dense cotton (almost duck), although now that I'm moving up to affording
linen, that may become my second-favoirte one.

Rosine


From: "Rosine" <rosine at sybercom.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] overgown for dishwasher
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:09:46 -0500

<snip>
> On a side issue- I'm planning to make an overgown
> for a friend who is _ALWAYS_ washing the dishes
> at feast. Something she can get in and out of
> easily, to protect her clothes. I already have ideas about
> how to do this- but has anyone made anything like this,
> and do you have any _specific_ pointers?
>
> 'Lainie

   Before I became The Baroness, the kitchen sink was _mine_ (my theory is
that someone who does a lot of cooking is the best dishwasher - you can
recognise the areas where food-prep is finished and needs cleaning up, the
areas where it's not and you'd best keep your fingers off the knives, the
importance of where to put the knives after they're washed... timing
availability to the sink so everyone can wash hands.)
   I carried my own bag o'stuff (favorite dishwashing detergent, small
bottle o'bleach, brillo pads, cheap new sponge/scrub pads (doubles well for
washing veggies), extra garbage bags, lots and lots and even more small
white towels bleached and folded by someone with clean hands and marked with
some sort of identifier. Not that I expected to use them to bandage wounds,
it just made me feel "better".
   And in the top of the bag went my apron. I made a wide-bodied lined
cyclas (more like a surcoat of the Norman style) of a nice tight "almost
canvas" muslin. The two panels are joined at the waist by an attached "tab"
which hides the elastic inside it... there's enough opening between the arm
and the tab that I could easily turn the thing around without taking it off,
should the front get too dirty. The double-layer of muslin is not hemmed
together, just stitched down the sides, so one layer rides separated,
mostly, from the other, which seems to really cut down on the "wet belly"
syndrome. The unbleached cloth holds up really well to repeated washing in
hot water with bleach - I've been using the same "apron" for about 9 years
now. (But since I'm only allowed in the kitchen at events we're not hosting,
it hasn't gotten much use lately.)
   So I'd say:
- aim for unbleached, sturdy muslin
- make the neck opening big enough to allow for knotted or scarved heads
-make it wide as the shoulders all the way down, possibly even wider at hip
to hem, if necessary - and a long apron means less spillage on the bottom of
a skirt
- if possible, have the neck opening symmetrical so it can be reversed
- the elastic cord between the panels of the apron is not too obtrusive, but
for shimmying in and out of at need, it is a real stress-saver.
- think very carefully before adding pockets. I found that pockets = putting
something in them, which made leaning against or bending over a sink
uncomfortable.

Rosine


Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:24:47 EDT
From: KazOShea at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period chefwear?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Try lookng here...http://gallery.euroweb.hu/. It has all kinds of  portraits 
and stilllifes in period and I do recall there were a number featuring 
kitchens.

Iago


Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:13:18 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period chefwear?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Take a look at Vom Mundtkoch from Rumpolt's  Ein Neu Kochbuch of 1581.

http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/mundkoch.htmhttp://staff-www.uni-ma-rburg.de/~gloning/mundkoch.htm

Bear


Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:42:26 EDT
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period chefwear?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

lorenz_wieland at earthlink.net writes:
> Are there any good online resources or recommended books that cover
> clothing worn by period cooks?

I think I have a website that has 16th and 17th century chef's clothing  
- not sure what countries.  Let me look...
<A HREF="http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm">http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm</A>

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:39:20 -0500
From: <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Cook's Wear, was: SCA article in Chicago
	Tribune
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>>
  Probably best to avoid skirts that drag on the floor or big
drapy sleeves, though.

Anahita
<<<

But I like my angel-wing sleeves for that reason, they tie up and out of
your way very effectively.  And I find that a turban is more effective at
controlling loose hairs than a paper hat is anyway.  

Christianna


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:49:33 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Proper Kitchen Attire
To: Jenn Strobel <jenn.strobel at gmail.com>,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Sep 28, 2005, at 3:57 PM, Jenn Strobel wrote:
> So, I pose to you this question: What is the correct attire (generally) for
> cooks during the middle ages/renaissance and what documentation do you have
> for it (so I can replicate the data, not some big weird
> authenticity test or anything)?
>
> Odriana

There are a lot of pictures of cooks in various fields of
specialization in the various Tacuinum Sanitatis manuscripts...

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:07:35 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Proper Kitchen Attire
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Aertsen is good to look at. Try these:
http://www.wga.hu/index1.html

http://www.wga.hu/art/a/aertsen/cook.jpg

http://www.wga.hu/art/b/beuckela/cook.jpg

There are a number of posts in the archives like this one:

While engaged in a little research on Vincenzo Campi, I stumbled onto a site
which comments on garb in paintings of kitchens and markets from the late
16th Century and early 17th Century.  It is a site I found of interest and
may be of interest to others.

The URL is:
http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm

Bear

See also :  http://www.geocities.com/aecooks/CGMain.html
for a clipart collection.

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:48:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathryn Gordon <kathryngordon at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Proper Kitchen Attire
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I am in culinary arts at Platt college and in our class books it  
states the following:

The professional chef's uniform consists of comfortable shoes,  
trousers (either solid white, solid black, black-and-white checked or  
black-and-white striped), a white double-breasted jacket, an apron  
and a neckerchief usually knotted or tied cravat style.  The uniform  
has certain utilitarian aspects:  Checked trousers disguise stains;  
the double-breasted white jacket can be rebuttoned to hide dirt, and  
the double layer of fabric protects from scalds and burns; the  
neckerchief absorbs facial perspiration; and the apron protects the  
uniform and insulates the body.

   The crowning element of the uniform is the toque.  A toque is the  
tall white hat worn by chefs almost everywhere.  Although the toque  
traces its origin to the monasteries of the 6th century, the style  
worn today was introduced at the end of the 19th century.  Most chefs  
now wear a standard six- or nine-inch-high toque, but historically, a  
cook's rank in the kitchen dictated they type of hat worn.  Beginners  
wore flat-topped calottes; cooks with more advanced skills wore low  
toques and the master chefs wore high toques called dodin-bouffants.   
Culinary lore holds that the toque's pleats -101 in all-represent the  
101 ways its wearer can successfully prepare eggs.
I hope this gives you a starting place for looking up the uniform.

Lady Kathryn atte Unicorn


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:31:20 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Proper Kitchen Attire
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Greetings!  I'm in the process of re-reading _All the King's Cooks_ by
Peter Brears.  There are nice photos of the Hampton Court cooks wearing
what would have been worn by Henry VIII's cooks.  Other than being somewhat
uniform in style and color, the clothing looks pretty much like what
lower/middle class men would have worn.  I'm thinking you'll find
differences of dress in different countries and definitely at different
times.

Alys Katharine


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:57:55 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Proper Kitchen Attire
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Brears also quotes from documents that said that the
chief cook was to keep the help clothed. Apparently
the men in the kitchens wore very little at times. They in fact
got a clothing allowance.

Johnnae

Elise Fleming wrote:
> Greetings!  I'm in the process of re-reading _All the King's Cooks_ by
> Peter Brears.  There are nice photos of the Hampton Court cooks  
> wearing what would have been worn by Henry VIII's cooks.  


Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:27:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Proper Kitchen Attire
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

IIRC, Bernard Clayton's Breads of France has a photo of a French bakery
assistant working the ovens and wearing only a loincloth.

Bear

> Brears also quotes from documents that said that the
> chief cook was to keep the help clothed. Apparently
> the men in the kitchens wore very little at times. They in fact
> got a clothing allowance.
>
> Johnnae


Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:47:50 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Proper Kitchen Attire
To: "Jenn Strobel" <jenn.strobel at gmail.com>,	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

IIRC, Terence Scully's Early French Cookery has some information from  
Maitre Chiquart on proper kitchen attire.

If you read German, you might try Vom Mundkoch from Rumpolt, where he  
Talks about the cook and his duties.

http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/mundkoch.htm

Bear


Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:03:26 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gunthar's reception.....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Picture of Rumpolt here -- title page from
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ 
Image:Ein_new_Kochbuch,_Marxen_Rumpolt,_1581,_Einleitung.jpg

The 1622 title page to Scappi shown here isn't bad either. You could
walk in holding meat on long skewers.
http://www.alberghieroscappi.it/BScappi.htm

Johnnae

Michael Gunter wrote:
>> I think that Gunthar should be elevated wearing a white gown,  
>> black and white houndstooth checked hose, and a chef's toque.  
>> YMMV. :-)
>> 'Lainie
>
> I've been seriously considering finding a pattern for a period  
> chef's coat like Master A's and and apron for the ceremony.
>
> Gunthar


Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:51:28 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gunthar's reception.....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Feb 12, 2008, at 7:54 AM, Elaine Koogler wrote:
> Do we have a picture of Master A's??
>
> Kiri

The last time we discussed it, the garment in question had vanished
mysteriously, but I recently located it again. I'll see if I can get
some decent photos, but now, of course, the only decent digital camera
has vanished mysteriously (although I'm assuming The Evil Spawn has it
in his room for some nefarious purpose). I doubt cell phone photos
will do for this. I'll see what I can do in the next day or two.

What it is, is a cream-colored, canvas-ey cotton (basically duck-
cloth) Greenland gown with extra-long sleeve cuffs meant to be doubled
back (and with an extra layer of fabric in them to stiffen them  a
little, protect from radiant heat, etc.) Similarly constructed high
collar and front panels to guard against hot oil splashes, etc.

Because it's a Greenland gown, it sort of spreads out from the
shoulders, and you have to belt it in somewhat or you look like a
sailboat, but you can tuck extra fabric behind the chest panels to
increase the effect I spoke of. The protection from heat, not the
sailboat look. It's held together with hooks and eyes down the front.

Just the thing for diving into a convection oven without burning your
nipples off...

My original version was a workman's cote (although not as form-fitting
as a cote-hardie) looking somewhat like the cotes seen in
illustrations of the workmen in Tacuinum Sanitatis. I liked it better,
but the replacement garment was made by a friend who felt the
Greenland design would be more appropriate.

The cap is a matching Hieland bonnet, basically a bag for your head,
set into a headband. I've seen period drawings of bakers with very
cool (figuratively and literally) sort of slit sailor's caps looking
like a pinwheel on your head, but now that I actually need the
illustration, I can't seem to find it. It appears the design features
four or more triangular panels with bases off-kilter, so when the
triangles are set into the headband, one edge sort of poufs out a bit,
leaving a small air vent between it and the next triangle, but because
they overlap slightly, there's no obvious gap.

Adamantius


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Headwear for late13th century/early 14th century question
Posted by: "Cindy Myers" emmelyne at silkewerk.com
Date: Mon Sep 8, 2008 9:08 am (PDT)

Elisabeth Hänsler wrote:
> I am volunteering to help in the kitchen for an upcoming event. My 
> persona is early 14th century/late 13th century German. With that in 
> mind, what is some period headwear that will bw more confortable that 
> a net/barbette/fillet combo? (I have short hair and also use the net 
> to hide my modern hair until it grows out again.)

There's a surviving cap that when worn produces a look just like the 
images shown on that website. I can't tell if the web-author made 
her interpretation as a cap, or if it's a shaped piece of flat fabric 
tied about the head.

For a full discussion on the surviving cap, and instructions for 
making one, see:

Camilla Luise Dahl and Isis Sturtewaggen
"The Cap of St. Birgitta" (p 99-142) in _Medieval Clothing and 
Textiles Vol 4_
Edited by Robin Netherton and Gale Owen-Crocker. The Boydell Press, 
2008.

http://www.boydelland brewer.com

A friend of mine made one based on this article, and has been wearing 
it in the kitchen ever since. It looks adorable. :)

--Emmelyne de Marksbury


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Headwear for late13th century/early 14th century question
Posted by: "mary_m_haselbauer" mary_m_haselbauer at yahoo.com   mary_m_haselbauer
Date: Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:27 pm (PDT)

I had made one of those hats with from the temporo nostro website and I 
love it. However it went missing in my house and I started playing 
around with a one yard square piece of cloth and came up with something 
simplier that looks like the Mac bible image they are trying to 
reproduce. 

The square of cloth lays on my shoulders like a cape. I bring the two 
corners on my shoulders up under my hair and tie it at the top of my 
forehead. This looks really silly. :)

Then I take the bottom edge which is hanging in the middle of my back 
and bring it up over my hair and lay it on my forehead on top of the 
knot. The other two free corners are pulled past my ears and tied 
behind my head. Really it is simple! It is actually more comfortable to 
tie this under my hair but it doesn't look as much like the 13th c 
images. 

Slaine


To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Headwear for late13th century/early 14th century question
Posted by: "Cindy Myers" emmelyne at silkewerk.com   emmydoc
Date: Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:05 pm (PDT)

> Thank you to everyone for their input. I love this cap/coif - I truly
> prefer it over the typical "turbans" I see people wearing usually. I
> am going to make one based off of both of the sources provided... I
> will use a fingerloop braid because I have not learned to tablet weave
> yet.

You might not have to do either, if you don't want to. (Tablet weave 
or fingerloop braid.)

The St. Birgitta coif is tied with a strip of linen that continues up 
and around, binding the face opening as well. For the tie, it is 
folded and stitched (apx 1 cm in width.) Originally, the tie was 
probably stitched to the opposite side, forming a loop long enough to 
cross in the back and wrap around the head as seen in other 
illustrations of similar coifs.

So it would seem that you have another option, and one based on an 
extant coif.

Emmelyne de Marksbury


Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:13:29 -0800
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] hats: was "Top Chef" vs "Hell's Kitchen"

For hot areas where you have to put out a lot of effort, I can recommend
surgical caps.  They cover most of your head, are absorbent, and have a
terry cloth strip to sop up the sweat on your brow.

Plus, you can get them for 10 bucks, in a variety of patterns.  I liked the
neon monkeys....
-- 
Ian of Oertha

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	cooks-clothng-msg	Page 20 of 20