games-msg - 2/13/08 Medieval board games. Rules. References. NOTE: See also the files: games-cards-msg, games-SCA-msg, golf-msg, sports-msg, cloved-fruit-msg, darts-msg, Tarot-Crd-Ruls-art, T-H-Dreidel-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: jmike at asylum.SF.CA.US (J. Michael Hammond) Date: 29 May 90 16:18:40 GMT Organization: The Asylum; Belmont, CA Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Greetings to milady Awilda and all others interested in organizing celebrations of the King of Games! I crave your indulgence as I throw in my two farthings' worth from my perspective as a certified tournament director in the United States Chess Federation. The first important question to resolve is what *exact* versions of period chess do you want to support? I have seen articles and spoken with players who have some somewhat suspect opinions as to valid forms of the game. I recommend the source "A History of Chess" by Murray. It is a great big 900-pager, copyright 1913, and is still available through U.S. Chess. Their catalog number is C905MH, their price is $39.95 (but well worth it), and their phone number is (800) 388-KING. I believe the book is also available through other mail-order houses but do not have any other information at hand. {I hope I'm not breaking netiquette with this endorsement; I make no kickback thereby.} Damiano della Greccia From: mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder) Date: 1 Jun 90 16:07:44 GMT Organization: Software Leverage, Inc., Arlington, MA Llwyd ap Tentor of Myrkdfaellin asks: >Interesting.... I wonder what real chess pieces were made out of at first?? Some existing chess sets from period with descriptions follow. The heights given are those of the Kings unless otherwise stated. These are all from _Chess Sets_ by F. Lanier Graham. Arabic, 8th-9th C. bone, 1 9/16". Persian (Nishapur), early 9th C. ivory, some stained green, 1 3/8". Arabic, 9th-10th C. wood turned on a lathe. Nordic, 9th-10th C. ivory, 2 5/16". Spanish-Arabic(?), 10th C.(?) carved and plain rock crystal, 2 3/4". Anglo-Saxon bishop, 10th C. whalebone, 4 1/8". Nordic bishop, 10th-11th C. hartshorn, 3 1/8". German bishop (Cologne), 12th C. ivory, 1 3/4". Southern Italian, c.1100 ivory, 2 11/16". French(?) queen, 11th-12th C. ivory, 3 7/16". Scandinavian or Anglo-Saxon, c.1200 walrus bone, 4". Southern Italian vizier (queen), late 11th C. ivory painted red, 4 13/16". Southern Italian pawn, late 11th C. gilded ivory, 3". Danish(?) rook (guard), 12th C. hartshorn, 1 5/8". Arabic, 13th C.(?) rock crystal and smoky topaz with gold foil setting. Danish or German bishop, 13th C. walrus bone, 2 1/4". Nordic bishop and knight, 13th C. bone, 1 7/16". German knight, 14th C. ivory or hartshorn, 3 11/16". Scandinavian, 14th C. bone turned on lathe, 2 15/16". The design of the set was almost entirely based on the physical requirements of lathe turning. Burgundian, late 14th-early 15th C. rock crystal and smoky quartz with silver gilt setting, 2 5/16". German bishop(?), early 16th C. limewood, 4 1/8". -- Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [...uunet!sli!mfy] From: karplus at TURTLE.UCSC.EDU (Kevin Karplus) Date: 19 Jun 90 00:17:10 GMT Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Some evidence for dice chess: From "A Short History of Chess" by Harold J. R. Murray (written 1917, copyright 1963, Oxford University Press). This is not an abridgement of his 900-page "history of Chess", but a separate work. I'll have to look up the longer work later. p29. It is probable that the first Italian players often played chess with the help of the dice, an evil habit that lasted in Europe into the thirteenth century. (Note the bias of a modern chess player against games of chance.) No indication is given in this source of HOW dice were used in chess. Knud Kaukinen Kevin Karplus inactive in the West teaching at UC Santa Cruz karplus at ce.ucsc.edu From: BOYDJ at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA (Jeff Boyd) Date: 27 Nov 90 18:46:00 GMT Responding to Matt Stum's questions ... There are several (very similar) variants to this game, the most common name being "Tablut". Board sizes range from 9x9 to 25x25 (of the ones I've seen or read about). Some answers to your questions: 1) In some variants, the game is OVER when the king reaches the edge of the board :-). The more challenging version has the king needing to reach a corner, and in this case trapping against the edge is a win. This is sufficient, the sole objective is to trap the king; the king's protectors may still be running rampant. 2) You can't capture more than one warrior at once. Adjacent warriors of the same colour are thus safe from capture (adjacency is either vertical or horizontal, not diagonal). Goffrid the Obtuse Greyfells, Barony of Skraeling Althing, Midrealm Jeff Boyd, BOYDJ at QUCDN.QueensU.CA Department of Mathematics and Statistics Queen's University (Northern Center for Studies in Pretentiousness) Canada From: zebee at ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone) Date: 16 Nov 91 00:07:25 GMT Organization: Information Technology Division, The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Gretchen Miller) writes: >I've recently started looking into period games, both atheletic and >otherwise. Unfortunately, aside from "The Compleat Gamester", which is >about 20 years out of period, and a few mentions of football, bowling, >tennis, and various card and dice games, I have been able to find very >little. I have a translation of a Hungarian book. Fun and Games in Old Europe, by W.Endrei and L.Zolnay. published by Corvina. ISBN 963 13 2386 2 C 1986 printed in Hungary 1988. Back flap has "orders to Kultura Budapest 62 P.O.B 149 H-1389 I found it remaindered by who knows what devious route! Selfran ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zebee Johnstone | Adelaide City Council | Motorcycles are like peanuts - zebee at itd.adelaide.edu.au | who can stop at just one? From: rkister at lonestar.utsa.edu (Robert F. Kister) Date: 18 Nov 91 22:56:43 GMT Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio Heilsa! Greetings come from Gunnora Hallakarva, writing in the Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra, to Margaret Macdubhsidhe. At the risk of starting to look like the "Viking Answer Lady", I've been doing some games research in preparation for constructing a series of Tafl games. My bibliography includes some listings that will be of help to you. As a suggestion, look for books on games in public libraries, or college libraries only if they have a Child Development of Education department. In general, the public library (and/or InterLibrary Loan) is your best bet. Murray, H.J.R. _A History of Board-Games Other than Chess_. Oxford. 1952; New York: Hacker Art Books. 1978. Murray, H.J.R. "The Medieval Games of Tables." _Medium Aevum_. 10:2 (1941) pp. 57-69. Bell, R.C. _Board and Table Games from Many Civilizations_. 2 vols. London: Oxford U.P. 1960, 1969. Botermans, Jack, Tony Burrett, Pieter van Delft and Carla van Splunterer. _The World of Games_. New York: Facts on File. 1989. Murray's books are absolutely exhaustive, and give copious historical notes. Bell is very similar, although not so comprehensive, while Botermans et. al. is illustrated with great color photos of reconstructed game boards. Gunnora Hallakarva c/o Christie Ward From: mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder) Date: 18 Nov 91 19:11:38 GMT Organization: Software Leverage, Inc., Arlington, Ma. Good day to all, gentles. The following material is probably only of interest to chess mavens; it describes the rules to be used for the chess matches in the Carolingian Challenge III (sometimes called Duello). It is the result of research done at the behest of Danulf Donaldson (he, as the autocrat, asked me to look into period chess rules). One gentle spoke recently of investigating period games. In any such endeavor it is probably best to divide games into chess and all others -- Murray opined that the literature of chess probably exceeded that of all other games combined, and it would be difficult to gainsay him. For chess itself, Murray's massive tome contains extensive quotations from period sources (in various languages), and problems from period collections. I have leaned on it heavily in producing the following; a full bibliography is at the end. PERIOD AND MODERN CHESS RULES "Others may talk of the Round Table with its fifty knights, but I greatly prefer the Square Table with only four knights." -- Fiske Although it is often said that medieval chess and modern chess are very different in character, this statement is somewhat misleading in the context of the Society because it creates the impression that modern chess rules are out of period. The statement is true, but "period" goes beyond the traditional end of the medieval era by some hundred and fifty years; what fails to be "medieval" may still be period. Consider then the question, "What is the closest period equivalent to modern chess?". The answer is, for all practical purposes, "modern chess." There was, to be sure, much more variation in chess rules within period than there is now; but the mainstream pretty rapidly converged to a set of rules which has not changed significantly in more than four hundred years. The transition from the old chess to the new was quick wherever the latter sprang up: this can be measured by the rapidity with which terms to distinguish the two forms vanish. In all cases, the new game very quickly just becomes "chess" with no modifiers; during the transition period it is typically named by a term which translates as "queen's chess" or "chess of the furious queen." This refers to the fact that the queen in the old rules was a very weak piece, whereas the new queen "In a straight line spreads her destruction wide, / To left or right, behind, astride." (Hmm, reminds me of a lady I knew...) The traditional date for the start of the transition from the old to the new chess is 1475, but this is a rather arbitrary choice, and Murray thinks it too early by about a decade. The oldest surviving book dealing with practical play, Lucena's text of 1497 (probably), describes both forms. Luis Ramirez Lucena was a young student in Salamanca at the time. In any case, those of you who have worried that modern chess is out of period can relax. For all practical purposes, modern chess is period. *Timed* chess matches, on the other hand, aren't period as far as is known. They are a practical necessity for completing large tournaments in less than a day, however. Time limits were introduced about the middle of the 19th century, but the penalty imposed was often a monetary fine rather than the loss of the game! Sandglasses were used initially, but in the 1880s were replaced by clocks. Living chess is recorded as far back as the 15th century; frequently the moves of the game are determined beforehand, but I do not know whether this occurred in period. According to legend, such a game was played in 1454 in Marostica (situated between Venice and Lake Garda) for the hand of a lady. THE DUELLO RULES, AFTER RUY LOPEZ These rules are the same as modern rules, except that (1) en passant capture is forbidden if it gives discovered check; (2) there is no "draw by 3 repetitions" rule; (3) there are no exceptions to the 50-move rule in which more than 50 moves are permitted before a draw can be claimed. (It may surprise some to learn that the 50-move rule is period. But it is derived from a 70-move rule used in its predecessor, Shatranj; and Lopez may be responsible for reducing the number, since he argues that 50 moves are sufficient.) In addition, it is not true that white always moves first; in period it was typical to choose lots both for move and for color, and at some point the black pieces came to be considered lucky. (I do not know if this was within period.) The modern custom came about from a suggestion by G. Walker in 1835 that the player who lost first move should get the black pieces as compensation. For the Duello I will use the rule that the person who has second move may choose their pieces' color. ON RUY LOPEZ Ruy Lopez de Segura (his last name is pronounced Lopeth) was a Spanish priest from Zafra, Badajoz; he is commonly reputed to have become a bishop, but in fact he merely sought this post without achieving it. His _Libro de la invencion liberal y arte del juego del Axedrez_ (Alcala, 1561) was to prove of great importance in the development of chess. In a tournament played in the court of Philip II of Spain in 1574-5, Ruy Lopez and Alfonso Ceron (reputedly Lopez' equal) were defeated by Leonardo Di Bona da Cutri of Calabria and Giulio Cesare Polerio. (This is the first documented chess competition.) Reuben Fine calls Lopez' book "hardly worth much by modern standards" and makes a convincing case for this assessment. BIBLIOGRAPHY The following works, except for Chernev's _Companion_, each contain at least some information on period chess or chessboards. The _Companion_ is the source for the quote from Fiske, who wrote on the history of chess, particularly in Iceland. Murray's work is virtually a necessity for anyone who would study the history of chess. _The World's Great Chess Games_: Ed. by Reuben Fine; Crown Publishers, New York, 1951. Andy Soltis, _Chess to Enjoy_, Stein and Day, New York, 1978. Alex Hammond, _The Book of Chessmen_, William Morrow and Company, New York. Irving Chernev, _The Chess Companion_, Simon and Schuster. F. Lanier Graham, _Chess Sets_, Studio Vista Ltd., London. David Hooper and Kenneth Whyld, _The Oxford Companion to Chess_, Oxford University Press. H. J. R. Murray, _A History of Chess_, Benjamin Press, Northampton, Mass. -- Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [...uunet!sli!mfy] From: rkister at lonestar.utsa.edu (Robert F. Kister) Date: 26 Nov 91 01:37:17 GMT Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio Greetings to Fiacha from Gunnora Hallakarva: Just as a note, Linnaeus was travelling in Finland, but the Tablut game he describes belongs not to the Suominen, but to the Lapps. They still play it even today. Sources for this game: The best is H.J.R. Murray's _Board Games Other than Chess_ (full bibliographic info was given in my reply about board games). Murray discusses all the "Tafl" group of games, including Tablut, Alea Evangelii/Hnefatafl, Tawlbrwdd, etc. Difficult (but possible) to obtain is D. Willard Fiske's Victorian treatise on _Chess in the Icelandic Sagas_. It does contain amazing amounts of information from the sagas which applies to hnefatafl, but incorrectly assumes that the game so described is draughts or backgammon. Alea evangelli: the complete description, in both Latin and in English translation is to be found in Henry Armitage's _The Time of St. Dunstan_. The Alea passage is a complex correspondence of the gospels, such as was a favorite philosophical diversion of the clerical scholars of the day. If you know the rules of hnefatafl already, it makes sense, but no one could easily reconstruct the rules from the description as given. Some of the other sources I listed in my board games note also describe these games. I'm currently (among my other projects) working on a set with the pieces carved of ivory nut (I'd use walrus ivory if I could amputate my conscience). ::GUNNORA:: Subject: Period games and magic_ Date: 10 Feb 92 From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208 Margaret Macdubhsidhe writes: > I've recently started looking into period games, both atheletic and > otherwise. Unfortunately, aside from "The Compleat Gamester", which is > about 20 years out of period, and a few mentions of football, bowling, > tennis, and various card and dice games, I have been able to find very > little. Besides Master Samalluh's (please pardon the mangled spelling) book, > does anyone know of any good secondary or primary sources for games > descriptions? Is anyone else researching card, dice and athletic games > (outside of tourney/fencing/martial arts)? Want to share > research/ideas/sources? Duncan MacLeod writes: > I am also looking for period sources for slight of hand magic, Both of these > requests are for children who are trying their best to be patient, so > swiftness of response would be much appreciated! Actual period sources are rare, I only know of one: _The Art of Iugling [Juggling] or Legerdemaine_ by Samuel Rid, to be sold by him in his shop in London, 1612. To get this manuscript, go to a University with a _U.S. Govt. Doc. Microfilm Collection_ and ask for Reel 971, Cat# 21027, Pr 1121.U6, MiU F63-378. Grainy photocopies of microfilm of nearly illegible blackletter calligraphy of Old English grammar and spelling make this difficult reading, but it's worth the effort. Some very scholarly secondary sources include: _Medieval Games_ by Salamallah the Corpulent, Raymond's Quiet Press ISBN 0-943228-03-4,$10.00. I've also managed to track down about 3/4 of the books he lists in the Bibliography. Among them, I'd recommend the following two: _Traditional Games of England, Scotland and Ireland_ by Alice Gomme, pub. London 1894. in 2 vol. Normally, I avoid Victorian books as the scholarship usually tends to be nearly non-existant. These books however, are very well researched. I can't quote a price or ISBN, because I don't own them. _Board and Table Games from Many Civilizations_ by Richard C. Bell, Dover Pub., ISBN 0-486-23855-5, $6.50. My edition is "revised edition - two volumes bound as one" which makes it a bit confusing as the sequence goes; table of contents, text, bibliography, index, table of contents, text, biblio- graphy, index. Some additional books: _Games of the World: How to Make Them, How to Play Them, How They Came to Be_ edited by Frederic V. Grunfeld, Holt Rinehart & Winston Pub, ISBN 0-03-015261-5. My copy doesn't have the price listed on it. Richard Bell (see listing above) is listed as one of the consultants for the book. The book is documented to the nth degree with photographs of museum pieces and medieval manuscripts. Instructions on building boards and playing pieces are well written, well diagrammed and often photographed in intermediate stages of construction. Games are categorized into: Board & Table Games, Street & Playground Games, Field & Forest Games, Party & Festival Games, & Puzzles, Tricks & Stunts. Additionally the table of contents has cross-indexed each game for: Indoor or Outdoor; Solo, Pair or Group; Mental, Physical or Chance; Playing Time - Short, Medium, Long & Prepartion Time - Short, Medium, Long. _The History of Playing Cards: with Anecdotes of Their Use in Conjuring, Fortune-Telling and Card-Sharping_ edited by Ed S. Taylor et al. Originally pub. London 1865, my edition is pub. by Charles Tuttle Co 1973, ISBN 0-8048-1026-5. No price listed on my copy. It doesn't have a biblio- graphy :-(, but all of the direct quotes are adequately footnoted. The illustrations are all modern drawings of medieval cards :-( I would have preferred photographs, warts and all. _Juggling: The Art and Its Artists_ by Karl-Heinz Ziethen & Andrew Allen, 1986, Rausch & Luft Pub., ISBN 3-9801140-1-5, $69.00. Karl wrote a book in French, which translates as _The Complete History of Juggling_. Unfortunately :-( it's in French, 1,000+ pages, $200.00+, and only available from France by custom order! Andrew talked him into publishing the American Coffee Table version listed here. I'd suggest getting it from the library as after the first ten pages of medieval history, it goes into 1940. Additionally, the illustrations are simply labelled, "Greek Vase c240BC" or "Danish Manuscript 1470" with no additional information. _Street Magic -- An Illustrated History of Wandering Magicians and Their Conjuring Arts_ by Edward Claflin and Jeff Sheridan, Doubleday and Co., ISBN 0-385-12864-9, $5.95. Well written, well documented and lots of photo- graphs of museum pieces and manuscripts. Duncan, if you only use one book from this list, it has to be this one! Books strictly on techniques, or how to play: _The Juggler's Handbook_ by Bob Stone, Spiritwood Publishing, ISBN 0-9611928-0-1, $12.95. This one contains something I've never seen anywhere else, Juggling Notation. Juggling notation is to juggling what musical notation is to music, a set of symbols for writing down how to do a sequence. _Juggling with Finesse_ by Kit Summers, Finesse Press, ISBN 0-938981-00-5, $14.95. An American success story, Kit Summers is two time winner of the International Jugglers Association World Championship. The second time was AFTER he had been hit by a truck and told he would never leave his hospital bed. _The Juggling Book_ by Carlo, Random House, ISBN 0-394-71956-5, $6.95. Carlo is a juggler for Barnum and Bailey Circus, nuff said! _The Complete Juggler_ by Dave Finnigan, Random House, ISBN 0-394-74678-3. No price listed on my copy. I'm normally sceptical of any book that calls itself _The Complete "X"_. In my opinion, "X" has to be at least a dozen words to define a field of knowledge narrow enough to covered completely in one book. This one however, comes real close. The author is a former president of IJA and there's enough tricks here to keep a juggler going for years. For those who like to compare their performance against others, the book contains the Official Rank Requirements of the IJA, ie, what you have to be able to do to earn the next rank. _Hand Shadows_ & _Hand Shadows II_ I can't get my paws on these at the moment, so I can't give you author, price or ISBN, but they're both available from the Dover Pub. children's books catalog. They're just what they sound like, illustrated books on how to cast shadow pictures on the wall. Does anyone know if this is period?? By the by, I'd recommend getting the Dover catalog, it's free. Write to: Dover Pub., 180 Varick St., N.Y., N.Y. 10014. Specify your fields of interest and ask for the general catalog as well. _The Boardgame Book_ by Richard C. Bell. Nothing spectacular, but rules for most of common board games all conveniently in one volume. Books which have been recommended to me, but I haven't yet read myself. _A History of Board Games Other Than Chess_ by H.J.R. Murray _Games Ancient and Oriental and How to Play Them_ by E. Falkener _A History of Playing Cards_ by Catherine P. Hargrave - Dagonell SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr Habitat : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony Disclaimer : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers. Internet : salley at klaatu.cs.canisius.edu USnail-net : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029 Re: Period games and magic Date: 11 Feb 92 From: eadengle at watcgl.waterloo.edu (Ed "Cynwrig" Dengler) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: University of Waterloo (David Salley) writes: >Margaret Macdubhsidhe writes: >> I've recently started looking into period games, both atheletic and >> otherwise. Unfortunately, aside from "The Compleat Gamester", which is >> about 20 years out of period, and a few mentions of football, bowling, >> tennis, and various card and dice games, I have been able to find very >> little. Besides Master Samalluh's (please pardon the mangled spelling) book, >> does anyone know of any good secondary or primary sources for games >> descriptions? Is anyone else researching card, dice and athletic games >> (outside of tourney/fencing/martial arts)? Want to share >> research/ideas/sources? I have been doing some of my own games research for some time now. Some additional references that I have used for non-athletic games are: _A History of Card Games_ (originally published as _The Oxford Guide to Card Games_) by David Parlett, Oxford University Press, 1991. ISBN 0-19-282905-X. Probably one of the best books I have ever seen on card games as it seriously tries to describe where card games came from and what games were played when (yes, I know that was a confusing sentence :-). _A History of Board Games Other Than Chess_ by H.J.R. Murray. The copy I have in front of me is from the Oxford University Press, 1952. I do believe they still have it available for approximately 25 English pounds. A bit slow going but a very good summary of most board games. _A History of Chess_ by H.J.R. Murray. The copy I have in front of me is from the Oxford University Press, 1962 (first published in 1913). Still considered the classic book on the history of chess. _Korean Games_ by Steward Culin. Dover, 1991 (originally published in 1895). ISBN 0-486-26593-5. A light read through (no real in-depth history and some out-and-out mistakes in some of the history it does describe (e.g. cards were originally used for fortune-telling)) of some of the oriental games. _The Game of Tarot_ by Micheal Dummett. London, 1980. It is not in front of me right now, so I do not know its ISBN number. This is the book to see if you are interested in the history and playing of Tarot cards. All of the above books are easily obtained via inter-library loan from your local library. Sorry that this is such a short list, but the Games Museum at the University of Waterloo is currently closed so I cannot cite some of the other references I have used. Maybe tomorrow I will have some time to go over and get the information on some of these books. Cynwrig the Wanderer (writer of _The Gambling Wolf_ gaming articles in the local newsletter) Bryniau Tywynnog, Barony of Septentria Principality of Ealdomere, Kingdon of the Middle m.k.a. Ed Dengler Truth or Dare, medieval style Date: 11 Feb 92 From: lisch at relay.mentorg.COM (Ray Lischner) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca I have not made any seriour study of medieval games, but in my reading, I have come across a couple interesting games. One is "le roi qui ne ment" (the king who does not lie). This is mentioned as early as 1285 (Le tournoi de Chauvenci), and I have seen it in one of the fabliaux. (I don't remember which.) As far as I can tell, the game is played among a group of people. One is chosen as king or queen, who gets to ask any question of his or her "subjects." Being royalty, the subject is forced to answer the question truthfully. In return, the subject is granted the favor of asking a question of the king or queen, who must also answer truthfully. It seems the king or queen would get to ask questions of many subjects, and then the subjects get to ask their questions, and then it's time to choose a new king or queen, or to play a different game. There are other, similar, light-hearted games played by the noble youth. Someday, I might sit down to try to figure out exactly how and when they were played. Peregrine Payne Dragon's Mist, An Tir Ray Lischner UUCP: {uunet,apollo,decwrl}!mntgfx!lisch Date: 16 Jun 92 From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations Islamic Board Games Jeff Zeitlin asks about them. A good source is Sallamallah's book on period games, which I believe is still available from Raymond's Quiet Press. Backgammon, probably the game called "nard" in Arabic, was played in Islam, with slightly different rules. The various pit and pebble games are, I think, North African in origin; I am pretty sure they are period (and earlier), but am not sure if we know the particular rules then. Chess (Shatranj) is an Islamic as well as European (originally Indian) game. The Caliph Ma'mun (May Allah be contented with him) was a passionate chess player, but not one of the first rank. He used to say: "I am the master of the world, and to that task I am sufficient. But to master two spans square, that is beyond me." Cariadoc/David From: WILLIS%EIVAX at ualr.EDU (Brandr) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Flirtation Date: 9 Apr 1993 15:37:35 -0400 > On the other hand, can someone post some alternative flirtatious > games that can be played? That don't involve getting amorously > involved with persons unknown? Or are less un-hygenic? My lady, Glennys nic Kinley has developed a game she calls the Castle of Love, based on her reading about the games of the middle ages. She discovered a passage which said the "Castle of Love" was played as a diversion at tournaments and courts. The basic concept of the game was a Lady defends her castle while the Lord lays seige with words as his missles and flowers as his weapons. We play the game thusly. The lords and ladies are suggested to form pairs but this is not necessarily so. At the first playing many of the young single ladies accepted all attackers to their castle. The lady stands in the castle (if you wish I can snail mail diagrams and instructions for the portable on I built) Then in front of the castle stands a gate keeper, usually a lady. The lord approaches the castle and must first remove the gatekeeper. We have seen everything from bribes to taunting to picking up the gatekeeper and setting her to the side. Then the lord must convince the lady to allow him into the castle. This can be with words, songs (sung by hired bards is my way) gifts or anything short of physically forcing his way into the castle. We gave a gift to the best interacting couple that played. It was a great hit after we played the actual game the gentles at the ball kept playing the game over and over. It was very fun. Brandr Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: eadengle at watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Ed "Cynwrig" Dengler) Subject: Re: Mead and Backgamon Organization: University of Waterloo Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 19:16:55 GMT Greetings to the Rialto and m'lord Nahum! You wrote in your missive: >Seeking information, would some kind gentle (or Jew) :-) please help me. > >Two questions >1 - I love playing Backgamon but can not practice because I have forgotten >how to set up. I would be incredibly embarased if I came to some event >say a year down the line and was absolutely unable to play. > Please, please, please would someone post or e-mail the set up configuration >My most extreme gratitude! >Nahum haZev <FNKLSHTN at acfcluster.nyu.edu> Well, there are about 25 or so variants that I could tease your playing skills with, but I believe that the one you want is traditional medieval backgammon (sometimes mistakenly referred to as "American" backgammon, even though it originated in Europe). The layout is as follows: m l k j h g f e d c b a +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ White: enters on a-f |w| | | |b| | |b| | | | |w| moves from a-m-n-z |5| | | |3| | |5| | | | |2| bears off on t-z | | 2 on a, 3 on r, 5 on m and t | | Black: enters on z-t |2| | | |3| | |5| | | | |2| moves from z-n-m-a |b| | | |w| | |w| | | | |b| bears off on f-a +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ 2 on z, 3 on h, 5 on n and f n o p q r s t u w x y z Addendum: 1) in some variations, the men on r and h are moved to q and j respectively 2) doubles can be handled in one of three manners: a) are played again b) the player has a second throw c) are treated as normal throws (ie. no special favours) Hope this helps in your playing! If you want to know about other varients, try the books: A History of Boardgames Other than Chess by H.J.R. Murray Board and Table Games of Many Civilizations (1 & 2) by R.C. Bell In service to at least my version of the dream, Cynwrig the Wanderer From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chinese - yes or no ?? Date: 29 Jun 1993 18:00:23 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering Greetings from Fiacha, As a gamesmaster, I have had cause to investigate the origins and distributions of various games. This had led me to define cultural contact in terms of the spread of various games. Western Europe in late period played chess, cards and various dice games. Chess was learned from the moslem lands, possibly via Byzantium and possibly via Al-Andalus. Cards were a local invention, first recorded in 1377 and rapidly spreading through Italy France and Spain. Spreading a little more slowly into England and Germany. Dice were largely cubical and used for a variety of games, hazard being the most popular in England (and slowly changing into the modern American game of Craps). Cubical dice are standard throughout western Europe. In China, the games were WeiChi (Go), a variant of chess and some games played with long thin tiles or cards. There is no suggestion that the concepts of these games appeared in Europe in period and so I judge that there was no cultural contact. Japanese games are equally unique and unknown. Indian games include a large number of four sided games, particularly Parcheesi which was unknown in period. Africa is the home of Owari (or Mancalah). This game was undoubtable known in Moslem countries as a game played by black slaves but it too was unknown in Europe. I conclude that trading contact is not the same as cultural contact because traders such as Marco Polo did visit these remote lands, but did not bring back any of their games. I conclude that the transmission of chess and chackers from the moslem to the European countries does equate to cultural contact. I do not know of any Mongol games so I make no judgement in that area. I conclude that Africa south of the Sahara, India, China and Japan are all out of place in the SCA. However, the unbridled curiosity that got me into the SCA (or set my persona travelling far from his birthplace) and the courtesy I am trying to develop will not permit me to object to any individual who choses to claim one of those lands as their place of origin. Fiacha AnTir haslock at zso.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder) Subject: Re: SCA Palatine Selection Methods Organization: Software Leverage, Inc. Arlington, Ma Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 15:34:22 GMT Good day to Jennifer Geard and all other Rialtans. Jennifer wrote: > Disadvantages: chess is not the world's greatest spectator sport -- > playing with live chesspieces might make it better to watch but > would probably have to be framed as a masque in order to look at all > period. (Hmmm... actually this could be fun.) My sources assert that living chess is "recorded at least as early as the 15th C.," and "often" the moves are determined in advance. I don't remember whether I got this from Murray's _History of Chess_ or some other source. According to legend, in 1454 a game of living chess was played in Marostica for the hand of a lady. (Marostica is a town between Venice and Lake Garda.) For several years starting in 1954, an annual game of living chess was played in Marostica to commemorate this; I do not know if the custom still continues. I do not know how likely it is that this "legendary game" actually happened. Nor do I know whether the first references to the legend occur in period. If anyone on the Rialto is going to northern Italy sometime soon, maybe they will be tempted by this information to make a side trip to Marostica. :-) Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com] From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: help with a period games tourney Date: 5 Dec 1993 04:40:25 GMT Organization: Cornell Law School gl8f at fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) wrote: > My shire holds an annual (board) games tournament, and we are > attempting to do a better job this year with our research. ... Do you have Master Salaamallah's book of games? It has been available, I believe, both from the stock clerk and from Raymond's Quiet Press; I do not know whether either has it at the moment. > Second, I am having a hard time tracing backgammon (table) to before > 1600. I believe that Nard is the Islamic name for backgammon, and that the medieval Islamic version was reasonably close to the modern one, absent the doubling cube. This is from my memory of what Sallamallah says, and may well be wrong--I read the book some time ago. Salaamallah is, I think, still active in the Society (East Kingdom); you might see if anyone has his address. -- David/Cariadoc DDF2 at Cornell.Edu From: andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: game board references, great book Date: 23 Oct 1994 18:03:42 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland I recently found a wonderful book which should probably be in the private library of everyone in the SCA. It's called "History of Everyday Things"* On page 99 there's an illustration of a 15th century folding game board with multiple games on it. The boards I recognise are for Fox and Geese, Chess, and Nine Men's Morris. There is another board that looks most intriguing. If anyone can tell me what it is, I'd be grateful. The board consists of four concentric rings, the outer one consisting of about 55 alternating red and black segments, each about four times as long as wide. At the top(?) of this band, aprox. five of these are replaced with a (black?) diamond shape on a white background. On the other side of the board, there are little white triangles outside the band attached to every seventh segment. The next band towards the centre is quite thin and alternates black(?) and white segments corresponding to three segments of the outer band. The next band in has the same number of segments, with blue corresponding to the black, and black to the white. In the centre is a white circle containing a black star pattern with each point connecting to the inner side of a blue segment in the previous band. The book gives no sources for anything, but it is apparent that it is well researched and that the things shown in it are real. Therefore, if anyone knows of a reference for this portable game board, please let us know. Miklos Sandorfia andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca From: ah488 at dayton.wright.EDU (Patrick J. Smith) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: History of Chess Date: 20 Oct 1994 21:08:02 -0400 Sorry to take up bandwidth with this, but system problems lost me the name and Email address of the gentle who asked for this information. H.J.R. Murray's "A History of Chess" is available from the Benjamin Press, Northampton Massachusetts. IBSN 0-936-317-01-9 To the best of my knowledge, his "A Short History of Chess" has not been reprinted since Oxford University originally did so in 1963. Jerzy Gizycki's "History of Chess was published in English Translation of B.H. Wood by Abbey Press in 1972, an is out of print now. John Gollon's "Chess Variations: Ancient, Regional, and Modern" was published by Charles Tuttle Co in 1968, and also is not in print now. Richard Eales "Chess: The history of a Game" was published by Facts on File Inc. in 1985, and should be still in print. Unfortunately, I can't find my copy to get the ISBN right now. Murray's work, while a classic, has been dated somewhat by new findings in the last 100 years. Gollon's or Gizycki's are probably best, but not easily found. Eales is still good, if not the best. If I can be of further help, pleas Email me at ah488 at dayton.wright.edu, and not take up space on the network. I remain, Brusten de Bearsul, O.L. From: nusbache at d1.rmc.ca (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: History of Chess Date: 25 Oct 1994 18:22:16 GMT Organization: Royal Military College of Canada Richard McAteer (rmcateer at chat.carleton.ca) wrote: > Does anyone know how to play Hnefatafl "King-board". I have in interesting book called _The English at Play in the Middle Ages_ which opines that as soon as chess was introduced to an area, people dropped hneftafl, never to play it again, 'cause it was such a pointless game compared with chess. -- Aryk Nusbacher Post-Graduate War Studies Programme Royal Military College of Canada From: kbm at pts.PRof.COM (Karen Murphy) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Hnefatafl a dead game??? Nah ... Date: 1 Nov 1994 14:20:40 -0500 Unto the Rialto, greetings from Arnora. Regarding Richard's request for information on hnefatafl (hereafter referred to in its norse/icelandic abbreviation, tafl, 'cuz i'm too lazy to spell the whole thing :), I know the game well, and, in spite of Aryk's words that it died out of popular play becuase of chess, I much prefer the game to chess. Granted, it is nowhere near as intricate game as chess is, in that each piece can only move in straight lines, vertically and horizontally along the board, but as a teacher of basic strategy and tactics, it has always struck me as far more practical an example than chess. Mind you, I also have a limited attention span, so learning the rules to tafl was much easier for me than learning the rules to chess. At best, I play chess poorly, but I play a mean game of tafl, and I also play several different types of tafl (there are at least three different and documentable board sizes, the 11, 13 and 19 boards, with at least one convincing argument for a 17 board as well). in all variants, the attackers outnumber the defenders by a substantial margin, making the defenders the harder role to play. If Richard (or anyone else :) has any specific questions on the game or one of its variations, there are a number of people in my area who play these games frequently and well; let me know, and if i can't answer the questions myself, I'll pass them along to those who can (hello, Cynwrig ... :) Arnora Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period kissing games From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 07:42:14 EST Summary: how to do it right From una Mon, 28 Nov 94 06:39:29 EST Respected friends: This was written in response to an Email request, but I decided to inflict it on you all. }:-> "Prinkum Prankum" is a true carol- the singers dance in a ring, a very simple bransle type dance. For steps and tune you would have to find an old Carolingian. ("Old Marion" and Vissevald Selkirksson are on the Rialto now and then.) The words are: "Prinkum-prankum is a fine dance And shall we go dancing once again? And once again, and once again, And shall we go dancing once again?" "This dance it shall no furthur go." "I pray you, good sir, (madam) why say you so?" "because Joan (John) sanderson will not come to" "She (he) must come to and she will come to, She (he) must come whether she (he) will or no." Then the dance stops, the man in the middle leads a lady from the circle to a pillow , on which they kneel for the kiss. the lady remains in the middle while the man rejoins the dancers. Repeat until everyone's had enough, or (my preference) stop as soon as it's obvious to one of the experienced dancers that the less popular dancers will soon realize they're being skipped. Kissing bough: -It seems to have begun in Pagan days as a way of designating the person who would speak next at the Yule storytelling. But by the time it's `nailed down', in medieval France, it's become a courtly game. An evergreen branch, light enough to be easily lifted and as perfect as possible, is selected. It is decorated with ribbons holding small bells. I don't remember anymore who starts this one, but the man who holds the bough carries it to the lady of his favour. She gives him a subject upon which he must compose a poem `ex tempore'. When he has one, he rings the bells on the kissing bough, recites his poem and claims his reward. Then the lady gives the bough to another gentleman (It is to be hoped she selects one who is capable of poetry) - he does not, however, get a kiss at that point. He, in turn, must find a _different_ lady to approach, etc. The original version of clove lemon: (This is more a middle-class thing: the poor give homemade trinkets.) A citrus fruit, or at least a citrus rind, is obtained. (Remember, at this point lemon rinds were inches thick. This is one reason why so few period recipes, relatively speaking, call for lemon juice.) If a rind, the center is packed with whatever spices the young man can obtain. In either case, the outside is scored and the scores rubbed with spice. A prudent person will score in a pattern suitable for the number of cloves he can afford. Once the cloves are set in, the lemon is set in a warm, dry place until the skin begins to harden. (Ideally, this will occur at the proper time- St. Valentine's day in some areas, twelfthnight or midsummers's morn, whatever suits the local custom.) Then the suitor presents it to his sweet-heart. (One assumes a kiss would be returned if the gift is a welcome one.) If the hearts are true, the pomander will finish drying pure and sweet. If there is a flaw, it will show in the fruit. (A clever, but unwilling, girl could probably manage the matter so that her superstitious parents declared the suitor as rotten as his gift...) That's all I can remember at the moment. Do me a favor, if you would- see if you can get any of these to take hold in your area... The sins of the lazy researcher are visited upon the Society, unto the thousandth generation thereof. Honour/Una/Alizaunde (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA From: alfredo1 at aol.com (Alfredo1) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period Games Date: 9 Jan 1995 12:28:45 -0500 > i have recently taken up carving gameboards from in Period. so far I have > found a large group of games to work with, but i am always in search of more. > I have checked out all of the sources from the Compleat Anachronist:Period > Pastimes. what i would like to know is: what are some other good sources > available for Period games. if you can, also give an isbn number, price, and > what library i might be able to get it from via interlibrary loan. Games of the World, Frederic V. Grunfeld, ed., ISBN 0-03-015261 Especially geared toward making games. The Boardgame Book by R C Bell, ISBN 0 89535 007 6 This is supposed to work as boards itself, moving cut-out pieces on the pages, but it doesn't work to well. Still the photos of the authors collection are great. Be sure to see the hidden side of the dust-jacket. The Book of Games, Peter Arnold, ed., ISBN 0-671-07732-5 Mostly deals with rules and strategies. Some period illustrations. The Games Treasury by Merilyn Simonds Mohr, ISBN 1-881527-23-9 (pbk) 100 Indoor Games You Can Play by Peter Arnold, ISBN 0-517-65409 These are all "coffee-table" books; the first three have period illustrations and photographs that will help you with design details. Alfredo el Bufon From: kellmer at u.washington.edu (Brent Kellmer) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: (More) Tablero Questions Date: 31 Jan 1995 22:33:37 GMT Organization: University of Washington Greetings to those gentles gathered on this bridge, from Rodrigo Ramirez de Valencia! I haven't been following this thread closely, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but there's the Creative Anachronist "How to While Away a Seige" that has Tablero rules and an explanation in it. There is also a drawing of a late period Tablero board (around 1560's I think, but I may be off a bit). I'm sure the author would be happy to help out if you contact him -- it's Baron Gerhardt Kendall of Westmoreland, one of the pillars on which An Tir stands (he is quite a wonder). I don't know if he has an e-mail address, but I can dig out a postal address if you'd like. Point of note: I've only seen it referred to as "Tablero de JESUS," rather than "Tablero de Jeses" (although one might be a corruption of the other). There is also a traditional game of An Tir known as Tablero de Gucci, after a well-known family in the kingdom -- generally done with beer rather than with coins. Games rarely last too long, even for the strong-willed and hollow-legged. In Service to St.Bunstable, Madrone, and AnTir, Rodrigo Ramirez de Valencia Madrone, AnTir kellmer at u.washington.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: greyk at netcom.com (Grey Knowles) Subject: Re: Help with Gambling Games Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 23:51:09 GMT -Otto,M.R. (motto at usgp4.ih.att.com) wrote: : My beloved Angus is interested in holding an event where the good gentles : of the area can enjoy an evening in pursuit of games of chance. I would : appreciate information any of you might have on such games as were played : in our period. Also, if any have held or attended a similar evening's : festivities, I would be interested in tips and stories of how it went. You may think about a name 'Rock n' bone' which would refer to both barony and bones, ie dice. As far as games go, I can tell you two good gambling games: 1) The predecessor to craps, Hazard. Almost excatly the same. to play hazard: roll 2 dice (6 sided) after placing an ante. if 7 or 11 comes up, you win. if neither appears, take note of the number and roll until you hit it. getting the number means you win, but if you roll 7 or 11 you lose. Pretty simple. Bets can be placed all over, on the number that comes up on firstroll, whether he winns or loses, what the losing number is.... etc. 2) German game: Lucky Pig (I forgot the translation). Much more involved game. Can be played continuously throughout the day as 1 game. board looks like: \-------------------\ \ \ 12 \ \ \------\------\-----\ \11 \ 9 \ 10 \ \------\------\-----\ \8 \ 6 \ 4 \ \------\------\-----\ \3 \ 2 \blank\ \-------------------\ Rolling the dice is fairly simple: Roll the number and, unless there's a coin there, put one there. If there's a coin there, take it. Here's the trick: 12 is the king and 10 is the wedding. the pig is 2. The idea is that if you roll the king, you get everything on the board BUT the wedding. if you roll the wedding, you must put a coin, only (it's a gift for the groom/bride). If you roll the pig, you get the entire board, even the wedding. Also, note there's no 5. If you roll a 5, it's house choice. This could be ANYTHING - from downing all your ale, to ...? Have fun. -- greyk at netcom.com From: Alfredo1 at aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: games of chance and such... Date: 3 Apr 1995 01:17:28 -0400 > Once again I beseech ye for help! I am giving my first revel soon, and > I plan on offering various games for the revelers, unfortunately...as > with most of my knowledge...I am only familiar with a few. If any of > you have suggestions, they would be so greatly appreciated. I heartily suggest the ancient game of Morra. It needs no equipment, and it makes Scissors-Rock-Paper look like child's play. If you've never played Morra, then you've probably never stood facing an opponent, holding out a hand displaying from 0 to 4 fingers, shouting (preferably in Italian) a number from 0 to 8, while your opponent did likewise, and repeated the action until one of you had shouted a number that matched the total number of fingers thrust forward. There is an old Italian proverb about someone who would play Morra for money in the dark being exceptionally trustworthy, or trusting, or something (they were talking so fast!). Here is a table of the Italian numbers. 0 zero /DZEH-ro/ 1 uno /OO-no/ 2 due /DOO-ey/ 3 tre /TREY/ 4 quattro /KWAT-tro/ 5 cinque /CHEEN-kwey/ 6 sei /SEY-ee/ 7 sette /SET-teh/ 8 otto /OUGHT-toe/ Although I am Spanish (not Italian) I remain, Alfredo From: mugjf at uxa.ecn.bgu.EDU (Gwyndlyn J Ferguson) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: games of chance and such Date: 13 Apr 1995 12:27:20 -0400 Unto Wllm MacA, Melys, and those upon the bridge, This is in response to requests for rules for _Road to Jerusalem_, so here it is. I first encountered this game at a games eent, and my lord has subsequently made it his favorite to make and play. As near as I can tell (minimal research and much hearsay) _Road to Jerusalem_ sprang from the 3rd Crusade and appears to have been a tavern game. The original board is a spiral of 63 spaces, with start on the outside and Jerusalem in the center. There are several special spaces: 1. Start 5. Spur 6. London Bridge--Pay one coin, go to space no.12 9. Spur 14. Spur 18. Spur 19. Paris Inn--Pay one coin for a drink, spend two turns drinking. 23. Spur 26. Play at Dice--Must roll a 5 to continue. 27. Spur 31. Roman Fountain--Toss in one coin, spend one turn wishing. 32. Spur 36. Spur 41. Spur 42. Bad directions from Venetians, go to space no.24. 45. Spur 50. Spur 52. Ransomed by Germans, stay here until someone passes you. 53. Play at dice--Must roll 9 to continue. 54. Spur 58. Black Death! To continue, go back to start and pay one coin. 59. Spur 61. Oasis--Pay one coin for a sip of water. 63. Jerusalem! You need: A pair of dice, the game board, coins or tokens, and markers for the players (buttons or such). The game will support as many players as wish to play, the more players, the richer the pot! Each player pays one coin into the pot at Jerusalem and puts his marker on start. Determine who is to go first, and proceed clockwise from there. Roll two dice and move the same number of spaces as the total. You MUST do waht the space tells you to do. You must pay one coin to Jerusalem whenever you are a) on start, or b) a space that tells you to pay. You must roll the exact number to get into Jerusalem, excess points are moved backwards. Example: Player A is two spaces from Jerusalem, he rolls a five. He would count two spaces into Jerusalem, and 3 spaces back. If he does not land on a spur, he may move forward again on his next turn. Spur spaces indicate that you MUST roll again and move. You continue moving in whichever direction you were moving when you landed on the spur (yes, even backwards). You have one chance per turn to roll an exact number when caught Playing at Dice. When the correct number is rolled, you may immediately proceed with a normal turn (roll again and move). If you are Ransomed by Germans, you are released when another player passes you, even if he's going backward. When you roll the exact amount and enter Jerusalem, you sack the city and get all of the coins in the pot (yay!). Game play continues with all of the players paying a coin to Jerusalem, AND CONTINUING FROM WHEREVER THEY ARE ON THE BOARD. If the winning player wishes to continue playing, he may pay one coin to Jerusalem and begin at start. Anyone can join in at an time by paying one coin to Jerusalem and beginning at start. This game is good fun, and can easily be played with poker chips as well as pennies (or cookies, or whatever). My lord has created a version of the board in which the track is uncoiled and laid out over a map of Europe, so that London, Paris, Rome, Germany and Jerusalem are in approximately correct positions. It is painted on fabric and can be rolled up to store. (He sells them for $30, which includes dice and markers for four to six players) Ok, it was a blatant pitch :) I hope you enjoy the game! gf *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf at bgu.edu From: iys6lri at mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Lori Iversen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: A Book of Games Date: 20 Apr 1995 21:43:40 GMT Organization: ucla To all gentles who were looking for period games and the like: A fellow with whom I work on stage occasionally has self-published a book of board, card, and dice games from Rome to the Cavaliers. I don't know what the book is called, but Wally gave me his permission to post his name and phone here on the Rialto for any who are interested. The book costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $16.00, I think, and worth every penny, too. Incidentally, Wally took his degree in medieval history and has made a second career of supplying stuff to the historical re-enactor. Walter and Sheila Murphy-Nelson (aka Wat of Coombe and Shelagh na Morphaidh) Merchant Adventurers, Ltd. (818) 342-3482 Alexis Vladescu Lori Iversen WyvernHo-ette (IYS6LRI at mvs.oac.ucla.edu) Altavia, CAID The Valley, CA From: DUNHAM%EUGLIB at mred.lane.EDU (PATSY DUNHAM) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Alfonso's Book of Games in Cincinnati Date: 4 May 1995 14:27:24 -0400 >On Thu, 4 May 1995 "John R. Schmidt" <jschmidt at netcom.com> wrote: >Secondly, I have heard a rumor that a translation of Alphonse the Wise >book of games (Alphonse X, and I've mangled another name) exists in the >main city library in Cinncinati. If so, any information on it would be >wonderful. If a copy could be made, I would pay all costs and some time >(negotiated ahead of time), if not, I'll have to come visit, but I've got >to confirm it's existance first. >John Theophilous/John Schmidt Well, I'm not from Cincinnati, but I do know how to get books. According to OCLC, there is one copy in Cincinnati of _Alfonso_ 's (that's how the library world spells it) _Libro de los juegos_ (OCLC #10920473). It is, however, a photo facsimile with 4 pages to the page; but the illustrations have been hand colored... So it looks like it would be real small; and I think it was an edition from the 1920's or earlier so it may be in pretty fragile condition. It took a bit of work to figure this one out, as my Spanish is pretty rusty, but... The Cincinatti copy is the only one called "Libro de los juegos" (Book of the games). The other editions that are around go mostly by the title "Libros de ajedrez, dados y tablas" or some combination of the following phrases: El tratado de ajedrez/Libro de acedrex (Treatise/book of Chess) Libro de los dados (book of Dice?) Libro de las tablas (book of Board-games?) Libro del alquerque (Book of ...) (actually, according to my scribbles, the Tratado contains the 4 Libros listed above) I also found references to a microfiche edition from the "Spanish series" of the "Hispanic Seminary of Medieval Studies" (no. 2, item 13, 3 microfiche) (OCLC#11639281). There's a BIG German treatise (448 p.) on OCLC #4384536 (somebody writing about the book, in German--at this size it probably contains a complete copy of the original item, which would be in the original language). At OCLC #4229990 there's a 58 p. "estudio" that I'm pretty sure is just about the illustrations (which are GREAT, marvelous references for costume, the games and even musical instruments... there are copies of some of them in one of the "popular" titles at home (title is "Chivalry")) And, probably the most likely, there's a 1987 2-volume set published by the Spanish government, an "edicion facsimile" at OCLC #17601554, with 5 copies in the U.S. Most of these come from various Spanish (government) presses, so would probably be fairly difficult for civilians to order copies of (librarian tho I am, does _ANYBODY_ out there have a good contact that can regularly order books from European sources???) And I did not get the sense that ANY of the books listed above were in English. So how's your medieval Spanish? (Altho, Alfonso apparently was a real Danielle Steel--he wrote TONS of stuff (maybe 250 entries on OCLC for all the various editions of various titles, 1400 to present), there's probably at least one graduate thesis out there somewhere analyzing his language => glossaries or a dictionary??? Anybody have any clues?) So... off to Inter-Library Loan at your local public or university library... Chimene From: ansteorra at eden.com (5/23/95) To: ansteorra at eden.com Subject: Shove-Groat On Mon, 22 May 1995, Chris Walden wrote: > Last night I had the misfortune of losing over thirty-five pistoles against > an excellent opponent of Shove-Groat. It is my understanding that this > gentlemanly game is to be banned from the court of England and I fear that > this trend shall carry over into the courts of other countries as my > original home of Italy, and my current home of France. > > Shove-Groat is obviously a game of skill, unlike many of the games played > with cards or dice that are simply trusting one's money to blind and fickle > luck. Though I shall certainly feel the loss of my thirty-five pistoles, I > must bow to the greater skill of my opponent who won them from me. Given > time I shall return the favour to him. I heard rumour that the censure was > begun as the result of an unfortunate game between a Royal and a more > skilled player. The official story, however, is that the game is too > distracting from the business of court. > > I remain Yours, etc. > Antonio Bastiano > or cmwalden at bga.com Well, as you know, the loser in an evenly matched game of shove groat is likely to lose much more than the loser in a game where the winner is much better than his oponent. So I am SURE you will be able to recoup your funds. That is, if you would care for a rematch... --------------------------------------- | | SHOVE GROAT BOARD | ---------------------------------- | | | | | | | | | <----- Out area |_|__________________________________|_| | | <----- Bed (1 of 9) |______________________________________| | | <----- Another Bed... |______________________________________| | | |______________________________________| | O| <---- Coins that have scored |______________________________________| | O| |______________________________________| |O | |______________________________________| | O| |______________________________________| | | |______________________________________| | | |______________________________________| | | | | | | <---- Shooting area | | |--------------------O-----------------| ^ ^ ^ | | | His Side Coin ready to shoot My side A simple game, the basic idea is to be the first to get three coins in each bed. Each player gets five shots (coins) per turn. To shoot a player puts a coin on the edge of the shooting area and wacks it with their palm