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p-education-msg - 5/26/00


Comments and descriptions of period education.


NOTE: See also the files: universities-msg, teaching-msg, languages-msg, literacy-msg, Art-of-Arith-art, GSRE-art, apprentices-msg, Med-Math-Sci-bib.





This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.


This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org


I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.


The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.


Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).


Thank you,

   Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org



Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 03:25:53 -0500

To: kmlott at prodigy.net, ansteorra at eden.com

From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)

Subject: standards and requirements for T.I.


> I was wondering if anyone could private email me the standards and

> requirements for such a paper... on the topic of the evolution of children's

> literature in the middle ages.   I know that there was not much until the

> late 16th century, but hopefully I'll be able to dig up enough information.  


I think this is a topic that may be of interest to more than a few people on

the Ansteorra list, so I am addressing this both to you and back to the

list.  The comments that follow are appropriate for any SCA research paper,

whether submitted to Tournaments Illuminated, the Compleat Anachronist, a

local group's newsletter, or as an Arts and Sciences entry.


<snip of comments on writing papers and articles for the above publications.>


OK, that covers the basics of what is required for a T.I. article submission.


As for your topic, don't forget that scholastic materials are "children's

literature."  What is considered important for children to learn speaks much

about the culture and the role of children within it. I am sure that others

on the list will have suggestions for sources.  


I have one suggestion: an example of an educational item might be Aelfric's

Colloquy, which is a student's excercise that was preserved in both Old

English and in Latin. Translations are available in English in a number of

collections of Anglo Saxon literature. The text in Old English with wave

files for pronunciation of the Colloquy can be found at



An example of some of the text:


Pupils: Oh master, we children beg that you will teach us to speak

correctly, because we are unlearned and speak badly.


Master:  What do you want to talk about?


Pupils: We don't care what we talk about, as long as it is accurate and

useful conversation, not frivolous or filthy.


Master:  Are you prepared to be beaten while learning?


Pupils:  We would rather be beaten for the sake of learning than be

ignorant. But we know that you are kind and unwilling to inflict blows on us

unless we compel you to.


(from this point the dialog goes to each "student" in a number of

professions, asking what they do and how they do their jobs, finally

returning to the pupil/master dialog)


Master:  Oh, boys, how do you like this speech?


Pupils: We like it well, but you talk very profoundly and use speech beyond

our ability; but talk to us according to our comprehension so that we can

understand the things you say.


Master: I ask you, why are you eager to learn?


Pupils: Because we don't want to be like stupid animals, who know nothing

but grass and water.


Master:  And what do you want?


Pupils: We want to be clever.


Master: With what kind of cleverness?  Do you want to be subtle or cunning

in deceit, crafty in speech, artful, wily, speaking good and thinking evil,

given to bland words, nourishing guile within, just like a sepulchre,

painted outside and full of a stink inside?


Pupils: We don't want to be clever like that, because he who deludes himself

with pretense is not clever.


Master: But how do you want to be?


Pupils: We want to be sincere, without hypocrisy, and wise, so that we turn

away from evil and do good.  However, you are still questioning us more

deeply than our years can take; so speak to us in our own way, not so deeply.


Master: I will do just as you ask.  You, boy, what did you do today?


Pupil:  I did lots of things.  Last night when I heard the ringing of the

bell I got up from my bed and went to church and sang matins with the

brethren, after which we sang of all the saints and the morning hymns; after

this the six o'clock service and the seven psalms with the litanies and the

chapter-Eucharist. Then we sang the midday service, and ate and drank and

slept.  And we got up again and sang the three o'clock service; and now we

are here before you, ready to hear what you have to say to us!


Master: When are you going to sing evensong and compline?


Pupil: When it's time!


Master: Have you been beaten today?


Pupil: I haven't, because I behave myself carefully.


Master: And how about your friends?


Pupil:  Why do you ask me about that?  I dare not reveal our secrets to you.

Each one of us knows if he was beaten or not.


Master: What do you eat in the day?


Pupil:  I still enjoy meat, because I am a child living under instruction.


Master: What else do you eat/


Pupil: I eat vegetables and eggs, fish and cheese, butter and beans and all

clean things, with much gratefulness.


Master: You are very greedy if you eat everything that is in front of you.


Pupil: I am not so great a glutton that I can eat all kinds of food at one meal.


Master: Then how so?


Pupil: Sometimes I partake of this food and sometimes that, in moderation as

befits a monk, not with greed, because I am no glutton.


Master:  And what do you drink?


Pupil: Ale if I have it, water if I have no ale.


Master:  Don't you drink wine?


Pupil: I'm not rich enough to buy myself wine; and wine isn't a drink for

the young and foolish, but for the old and wise.


Master: Where do you sleep?


Pupil: In the dormitory with the brothers.


Master: Who wakes you up for matins?


Pupil: Sometimes I hear the ringing of the bell and get up;sometimes my

teacher wakes me sternly with a cane.


Master: Well, you boys and charming scholars, your teacher reminds you to be

obedient to the commandments of God, and to behave yourselves properly

everywhere.  When you hear the church bells, go in orderly fashion and go

into the church and bow humbly towards the holy altars, and stand up

properly, and sing in unison, and pray for your sins; and go out into the

cloisters or to study without playing the fool.




Gunnora Hallakarva



<the end>

Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org