þÿtent-care-msg - 8/14/05

Care of tents. waterproofing, washing.

NOTE: See also the files: pavilions-msg, p-tents-msg, tent-fabrics-msg, tent-setup-msg, tent-painting-msg, tent-interior-msg, tent-sources-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: daniel_t at gate.net (Daniel Tartaglia)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Help-Getting mold off tents.
Date: 5 Sep 1994 23:58:35 GMT

Our tent got soaked and we didn't do the right thing. Because of our 
sloth, our walls now have spots of mold all over them. I used some bleach 
on them which killed the mold but the spots remain.

Does anybody know of a product/method of getting mold off of canvas?

Ld. Nicolas Bradwater


From: marisla at aol.com (Marisla)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help-Getting mold off tents.
Date: 5 Sep 1994 21:39:09 -0400

Rinse your tent off immediately w/ lots of water.  The bleach if not
rinsed completely will eat right thru the tent.  Ammonia solution should
remove most of the mold.  But start first w/ liquid soap and a stiff
brush.  If that doesn't work, ammonia and then lots of hot sun as sun is a
natural bleach. - Marisela


From: alisounf at aol.com (AlisounF)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help-Getting mold off tents.
Date: 6 Sep 1994 17:35:01 -0400

marisla at aol.com (Marisla) writes:

>But start first w/liquid soap and a stiff brush.

Not if the tent is made of certain kinds of sail canvas. Any oil or
grease, which soap is, will cause the natural water repellancy of the
canvas to cease. In other words, it may leak. This no soap advice was from
the maker of my pavillion.

Alisoun Fortescue of Maplehurst


From: 00eenepsa at bsuvc.bsu.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help-Getting mold off tents.
Date: 8 Sep 94 11:38:05 -0500
Organization: Ball State University

daniel_t at gate.net (Daniel Tartaglia) writes:
> Our tent got soaked and we didn't do the right thing. Because of our 
> sloth, our walls now have spots of mold all over them. I used some bleach 
> on them which killed the mold but the spots remain.

**Unfortunately, my lord, you've probably ruined your canvas.

Mold begins to eat holes in the fabric and bleach DOES eat holes in the 
the fabric, destroying any waterproof qualities it may have had.

You can remove the stains first with vinegar, and if that doesn't 
work use diluted, powder laundry detergent.  You will then need to 
completely re waterproof your tent.  Army navy surplus carries a very
heavy duty paint on waterproofing that will do the trick, but you must
let the tent stand to air out for a LOOOOOONG time and apply it several
times.  I certainly hope someone has a better suggestion, but in my
experience, that's about it.> 
                                 :{  G-frewi


From: folo at prairienet.org (F.L. Watkins)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: waterproofing
Date: 22 Nov 1994 02:44:51 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

Thompson's waterproofing a) doesn't always work and b) will always
smell. For a long, long time.

Trust me.

Folo (been there, done that...)
-- 
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - folo at prairienet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MidRealm) - Commander Baldwin's (NWTA)


From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: WaterproofingBetter
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 00:09:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245

BM>	I've heard of people using stuff like Thompson's Water Seal for 
BM>waterproofing their canvas tents, etc.  Your impressions?

The absolute best waterproofing and stainproofing for fabric is 
ScotchGuard(tm) spray - used in much greater quantity than recommended on 
the can.

A half-circle ultra-heavy wool cloak requires a can - which will keep it 
clean and the wearer dry for about four years including five wars worth of 
sitting around the firepit on wet grass. NO GRASS STAINS

The best method of keeping papers safe and dry during an outdoor event:

1) take one Lands End(tm) original canvas carryall attache or whatever they 
call that bag these days.

2) Spray inside and out with ScotchGuard.

3) Take the rest of the war worrying about something else.

Spray the canvas of a director's chair with a good soaking of ScotchGuard.
Watch the rain.
When it stops, shake chair a little and sit down dry.

For extra protection, save the Thompson's for WOOD, not fabric.

Of Note: Drycleaning, which your cloak will eventually will need, removes 
ScotchGuard. Buy more and you're good for another half-decade!

NOW BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION:
   Unless you go to a 3M wholesaler and buy ScotchGuard for Fabric in a 
paintcan and apply with an airgun, you will not be able to afford a full 
waterproofing job for a canvas pavillion. Further - if you are going to do 
that job, borrow an air pack or SCUBA gear for the inside coat. Keep a fire 
extinguisher handy, or do the outside, allow to dry, then turn the tent 
inside-out.
                                           David M. Razler
  (Aleksandr the Traveller doesn't have any idea what this message is about)
                                       [david.razler at compudata.com]


From: dickeney at access2.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
Date: 9 Mar 1995 20:20:48 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

<ALBAN at delphi.COM> wrote:
>entering into the annual pre-pennsic packing frenzy a bit early, i'd like
>to know:
>i have a pavillion, 15 x 20. the top is all of a piece, which makes it too
>large to shove into a washing machine, even the large industrial kinds.
>the rains last pennsic made this top mildewed. very mildewed. you should
>have seen the hives i got sitting next to the top on the drive home, it
>was so mildewed. question: how do i get rid of this much mildew on
>this large a top? and how do i return the color of the fabric from the
>mildewy gray to a more natural slightly off white?

First off, you don't wait five months to get started -- however, that's 
irrelevant now.  Find a BIG flat space, and on a day when the weather 
report indicates 2-3 days of sunshine spread the thing out, sweep or 
vacuum the grossest of the mildew fungus off.  (If you get hives just 
being near it, better use a vacuum.)  Then sprinkle or spray it with a 
weak solution of lemon juice (about 2:1) and let that stand in the 
sunlight all day, repeat the next day (maybe a third if you're lucky), 
and on the afternoon of the last day fold it up and bring it in.  For 
further details check "Helpful Hints" by almost anybody like Heloise.  

|-----Mandarin 2/c Vuong Manh, C.P. (dickeney at access.digex.net)-----|


From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
Date: 10 Mar 1995 02:26:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

<ALBAN at delphi.COM> wrote:
>i have a pavillion, 15 x 20. the top is all of a piece, which makes it too
>large to shove into a washing machine, even the large industrial kinds.
>the rains last pennsic made this top mildewed. very mildewed. you should
>have seen the hives i got sitting next to the top on the drive home, it
>was so mildewed. question: how do i get rid of this much mildew on
>this large a top? and how do i return the color of the fabric from the
>mildewy gray to a more natural slightly off white?

The short answer is, Chlorine bleach.  This will not only kill
the mildew fungi, it will bleach out the stains.  The answer is
lengthened by two considerations:

1.  How to apply the bleach to the fabric, and how to keep it
from wiping out the local environment.  What you need is a large
flat area on which to lay out the pavilion top and apply the
bleach, from which the runoff won't run off into any local
watercourse.  I can't tell from your netid where you are located.
A flat field or vacant lot might work, so long as you can hook up
a hose to the water supply.  Spray or sponge the bleach onto the
fabric; wait till the stains disappear; and rinse it off with lots
and lots of water.  The bleach will break down after a while, but
in the meantime you want it to be sufficiently diluted that it
doesn't kill anything but the mildew.

2.  After that, you will probably want to restore the waterproofing
to the fabric.  How you do this will depend on what the
waterproofing was in the first place.  ScotchGard?  Paraffin wax?
Intrinsically tight weave?  Talk to the place that sold you the
fabric, and/or your local hardware store.

And next time it gets mildewed, don't ride in the same
compartment with it if you're allergic to it.  Next time you
might stop breathing, and that would never do.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West			UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE


From: cerdic at mcmi.com (david h corson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:32:03 EST
Organization: Material Culture Management Inc.

Alban--
you might try spreading it out in the back yard--when the weather is 
goint to be decent for a few days, and using a bleach soloution in the 
sprayer on your garden hose.  I have used one of those jars like they 
sell for feading your lawn or flowers, with Tilex or Clorex---it seemed 
to work for me.....

Elaina of Oaklawn, Countess, using Lord Cerdic's account


From: Wynn Klosky <klosky at meeker.ucar.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 15:12:40 -0700
Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research/Boulder, CO

For all those with mildewed tents, I bear tidings...of possible unhappiness.

According to my source at the Denver Tent Company/American Canvas in 
Denver, the first-try cure for mildew is to set up your tent and hit it
with the hose and a scrubber to see if you can knock it loose that way.

If this does not work, he says as a LAST result, because this may well
weaken your tent, to try a solution of 3 parts water to
one part chlorine bleach applied to a corner spot -- scrub it out and
rinse VERY well as any bleach left in will cause the fabric to deteriorate.
Allow it to dry THOROUGHLY, and see what the result is before applying to
your entire affected area.

The bad news, he says, is that if it already has *that* smell, the fabric
may already be damaged -- he says it will feel brittle and weak in your
hands. In this case, he says, there is little hope for the recovery of
your pristine tent.

(This is all assuming a natural canvas tent -- I didn't ask about synthetics)

In any case, he says, you should hose the mildew off as best you can as
soon as you can to prevent or lessen fabric damage. And let it dry in the
sun (making sure you've rinsed any Clorox out thoroughly), as evidently
sunpower has some brightening and beastie-killing effects.

Hope this helps,
branwynn ottersby
Caer Galen, the Outlands


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gyeates at chat.carleton.ca (graham yeates)
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:49:09 GMT

From Lady Helen Who shares her Lord's account,
		
Alban,
	At A recent practicum (learning event) we had a class on tent
making from a lady who has made canvas tents all her life (having
learned the craft at a young age from her mother).  Her thoughts on
Mildew were thus "Prevention is the Best Way".  On bringing a wet tent
home she suggests airing it as well as possible before storing it. 
She suggests the basement or the lawn on the next available sunny day. 
She Continues:
	"Washing with soaps or detergents will usually remove all
waterproofing.  Periodically, Dissolve 1/2 cup of baking soda in a
gallon of warm water.  Brush LIGHTLY into canvas.  RINSE, and let dry
out.  ***For Mildew, put 1/2 cup of javex in a gallon of warm water. 
Brush lightly into canvas, rinse well, let dry in the sun.  ***In
desperation (ONLY), put 1/2 cup soap (NEVER DETERGENTS) in a gallon of
warm water {and proceed as above}.  ******THESE LAST 2 TREATMENTS WILL
PROBABLE TAKE OUT MOST OF THE WATERPROOFING *******" (this is quoted
verbatim, all uppercase hers) She went on to suggest retreating with
Aquatite, a waterproofing agent.  She of the ladies up here have used
Thompson's Waterseal on their tents with good results too! Good Luck!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham A. Yeates Carleton University
And Lady Helen /Helen Dolbey
Email address: gyeates at chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pre-pennsic packing
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 95 23:00:42 EST

ALBAN at delphi.COM writes:
> entering into the annual pre-pennsic packing frenzy a bit early, i'd like
> to know:
> i have a pavillion, 15 x 20. the top is all of a piece, which makes it too
> large to shove into a washing machine, even the large industrial kinds.
> the rains last pennsic made this top mildewed. very mildewed. you should
> have seen the hives i got sitting next to the top on the drive home, it
> was so mildewed. question: how do i get rid of this much mildew on
> this large a top? and how do i return the color of the fabric from the
> mildewy gray to a more natural slightly off white?
> 
> alban, who tries to plan ahead.

	Respected friend:
	Large lawn+large stiff brush+large bottle mildicide from Janitor's
supplies store+large supply elbow grease+large stack of patches+large 
canvas awl+large spool of waxed linen thread= Fixed.
	Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but mildew grows by eating
the fiber it grows on. You've got that much mildew, you've got holes.
Brace yourself.

                                Yours in service to the Society-
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. 
                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Tent mildew
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 16:56:33 GMT

We've had a lot of rain here in SoCal recently, with a lot of leaky
roofs, minor flooding, etc.  As a result, there are a lot of wet,
mildewy carpets and furniture and a lot of newspaper articles about
dealing with these unusual phenomena.

It appears to me that the _easiest_ way to deal with a mildewed tent
is to take it to a carpet cleaner.  Not the kind that comes to your
house and does steam cleaning, but the kind that can really wash/clean
the tent in a tank.  They have anti-mildew agents and can deal with
large swaths of fragile wet fabric.  Plus, they can scotchguard, if
that's your chosen form of water repellency.

The next easiest seems to be to consult with such people and get
supplies from them.

Good luck!
-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer at ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html


From: Peter Valentine <valenti at mailhost.primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tent design
Date: 13 Mar 1995 23:16:04 GMT

> Unto the Rialto does Tariq Yazid bid greetings! 
>  
> I seek some assistance in matters tently.  Last year, my wife and 
> I stitched a 10' x 20' pavilion for Pennsic.  This year it needs 
> to be waterproofed and also we were interested in painting it. 
> Does anyone know of any good references where examples of 
> medieval tents may be found?  We'd like to be at least in the 
> neighborhood historically.  Also, any ideas on what type of paint 
> or dye should be used?  The tent is canvas, and I've done some 
> artwork on denim jackets with fabric paint, but I have a feeling 
> even to do simple piping would be cost-prohibitive to get 50 
> small jars of fabric paint that's sold in art supply houses. 
> Thirdly, has anyone waterproofed a canvas pavilion? I heard 
> Thompson's water seal works, but is there anything better? 

As to the paint, I cannot help, but I did just waterproof a   
Viking Pavilion with 400 sq ft of canvas using a product called   
Surfcoat (or Cerfcoat? can't remember) which I procured through a   
local Camping Supply Store.  It cost $20.00/gallon and covers   
~100 sq/ft per gallon.  Be sure to paint your tent first before   
waterproofing! 
 
Wolfgang von Hesse 
Barony March of Mons Tonitras 


From: "K. Schroeder-Laporte" <adelheid at u.washington.edu>
To: ches at tristero.io.com
CC: h-costume at lunch.engr.sgi.com, ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 
Subject: Re: Tent cleaning

On Mon, 25 Mar 1996 ches at tristero.io.com wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if it is possible to get a tent dry cleaned? I no 
> longer have a yard to clean one out on and the cat that is now gone 
> went all over it. What are my options?
>
> Ciao    at }\
> Ches  at }----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/
>         at }/

I don't know how old these stains (smells?) are, but people who breed
animals swear by a product called "Nature's Miracle" for all protein based
stains.  It has an enzyme which actually breaks down the urine/fecal
matter (or blood or grass, etc.) and doesn't just cover up the problem.  I
am not sure how it will affect your tent fabric, but I have never had any
problems with it damaging any fiber I've used it on.  You'll probably have
to re-waterproof it after you're done with it, though.

Oh, you can get this stuff in any pet store.  It comes in a white bottle
with red writing.  And no, I don't work for the company, I just REALLY
like the product.

kat

Adelheid von Luebeck
Acting Arts & Sciences
College of St. Bunstable
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~stareyed/bunstable/bunstable.html


From: "Maureen Martinez" <Maureen_Martinez at ccmail.us.dell.com>
To: h-costume at lunch.engr.sgi.com, ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96
Subject: Re: Tent cleaning

     Ches,
     
     You can take it to a car wash, and use the high pressure hose.  However, I 
     do caution against using harsh cleaners, or alot of scrubbing as you may 
     remove the waterproofing or sealer.  (especially when dealing with canvas 
     pavillions).
     
     We found out the hard way that you should never really wash pavillions as 
     you cannot replace the original water sealing.  -- Thompson's water seal 
     helps, but is not nearly as effective as pre-treated fabric.
     
     For modren tents, this may not be as big a concern as much of their 
     water-proofing comes from the synthetic fabric itself.  However, take care 
     not to 'wear the fabric too thin'.
     
     I recommend a trying a 'pet deodorizer' which are available at many grocery 
     stores and pet supply stores.  (You can also get some that have scents to 
     keep your cat from repeating the incident!)
     
     Good luck!
     
     Jenny Winslow
     MKA Maureen Martinez


From: Renee/Faustyna <simard at nucleus.com>
To: ches at tristero.io.com
CC: h-costume at lunch.engr.sgi.com, ansteorra at eden.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996
Subject: Re: Tent cleaning

Dear Ches

I have been in this very predicament.  There are a couple of options.  Is 
there a friends yard you can use for a day or two?  Since I don't know 
waht part of the country you live in you might also look for someones 
garage to set it up in while it has to dry.  (Duct tape rocks to the 
points where the pegs would have to be driven into the ground!)  

It may be possible to find an industrial type cleaner but check with a 
plAce that rents out large type tents.  They have to clean theirs so they 
may clean yours for a fee.

If cleaning it your self remember to use lots of baking soda in the water 
to kill the smell left behind by kitty.

Good luck I hope you find the help.
Renee/Faustyna


Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:54:11 -0600
From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Pine Tree Sap

Gwenllian Rhys Talbot asked:
>Anyone have a good recipe or hint as to how you can get pine
>tree sap out of SCA gear? Leather, tents, clothing, etc...
>
>I would like to get it out without damaging the fabrics.
>Any help will be greatly appreciated :-))

Try a little oil of melaleuca (tea tree oil).  It will leave a residual
odor, but the odor is fresh and somewhat minty.  This stuff is one of the
best mild, non-polar solvents I've ever found.

lo vostre por vos servir
Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace
Bryn Gwlad, Ansteorra


From: "Chris K. Hepburn" <chepburn at calcna.ab.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: How to clean a stinky *TENT*
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:14:16 -0600
Organization: Calgary Community Network Assoc.

Okay, since all of you have such wonderful suggestions on how to clean
stuff...here's a challenge for you:

I recently cleaned my basement (read: excavated) and discovered one of my
tents has the unmistakable, pungunt odour of cat urine.  I suspect there
may be a connection to my cat...

Anyway, the tent is that rip stop nylon stuff (including the floor).  Is
there any way to get the urine smell out of it?  I've already tried
"Pine-Sol" but that doesn't seem to be working too well.

If I dunk the entire thing full of bleachy water, will that make the tent
disintegrate?

Any helpful suggestions would be *vastly* appreciated!

Chris


From: aeronstorm at aol.com (Aeronstorm)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How to clean a stinky *TENT*
Date: 19 Sep 1998 19:22:12 GMT

Pet stores, Walmart, and some grocery stores have products that are
enzyme-based that will take care of cat urine. These products don't cover the
problem with perfume, they break down the components of the urine (and feces,
blood, etc.). Some of these products will take care of the stain as well as the
odor. There's also a black-light device that's supposed to show you where
there's been a deposit. Since cats' and dogs' noses are more sensitive to odor
than are humans', it's supposed to show you where there are minute traces of
urine that might attract your animals again and again. I've never tried the
thing, so don't know how well it works.

One thing not to use is ammonia (a popular, but useless remedy) because it will
only attract animals.

Ariane


Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:29:58 -0700
From: Bethany Payne <amanita at jps.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How to clean a stinky *TENT*

REI carries a rip-stop sleeping bag cleaner that I would assume also works on
rip stop tents. I purchased some after my cat decided to express his
admiration for my dad -- all over his down sleeping bag. After a quick wash
in the bathtub with the rip-stop cleaner, the smell is no more.

Ais


From: jen-guy at home.com (Jennifer Guy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How to clean a stinky *TENT*
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:19:57 GMT

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:14:16 -0600, "Chris K. Hepburn"
<chepburn at calcna.ab.ca> wrote:

>Okay, since all of you have such wonderful suggestions on how to clean
>stuff...here's a challenge for you:
>
>I recently cleaned my basement (read: excavated) and discovered one of my
>tents has the unmistakable, pungunt odour of cat urine.  I suspect there
>may be a connection to my cat...

My dear kitties have a habit of showing their disapproval of my lord
on my lord's laundry. A product called "Smells Begone" works
admirably, about 1/4 c. in the washer in conjunction with the regular
laundry detergent.


From: sewingcntrl at earthlink.net (Elisee du Lyonnais)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: How to clean a stinky *TENT*
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:49:30 -0500
Organization: Merlion's Tail

"Chris K. Hepburn" <chepburn at calcna.ab.ca> wrote:
>Okay, since all of you have such wonderful suggestions on how to clean
>stuff...here's a challenge for you:
>
>I recently cleaned my basement (read: excavated) and discovered one of my
>tents has the unmistakable, pungunt odour of cat urine.  I suspect there
>may be a connection to my cat...
>
>Anyway, the tent is that rip stop nylon stuff (including the floor).  Is
>there any way to get the urine smell out of it?  I've already tried
>"Pine-Sol" but that doesn't seem to be working too well.

I have used several of the enzyme based products, and even had the occasion
to use them on a rip-stop nylon tent.  I soaked it for 2 days in the stuff
in a inflatable wading pool (this stuff was to stay wet for 24 hours or
more) and the smell came completely out.  It has not seemed to harm the
tent - I did this 12 years ago and the tent is still in use.  In fact, it
was the only one of our four structures that survived Lilies.

Elisee, who will not adopt more cats when Bill 'n Opus go to the great
litterbox beyond.


From: Chuck and Rhonda Leggett [RLEGGETT at austin.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:39 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] canvas question

> I have an odd question, but figured you all have plenty of experience and
> answers.
>
> What process do you use for canvas pavillions to keep them water proof?
>
> Susan the Curious
> Northkeep

Although there are many good products available to waterproof canvas (and any other) tenting, one of the most common 'traditional' ways was not to bother, but rather to be careful.  A good, tightly-woven canvas will almost never leak-as the fibers get wet and swell, they actually will shed water without treatment....as long as no-one touches the fabric.  As soon as the fabric is touched by some-one or something, it initiates a capillary action that runs water through that precise spot like a hole, until the fabric dries and the whole thing starts fresh. (Amusing to see someone draw a picture, or "write" their names into a "waterfall," then realize that they
would have to sleep there!) However, for those of us that don't choose to (or have to)  rely on just caution, there is another product I've used before, called "Duck's Back," that I haven't seen anyone mention before.  It may be available at Academy (I don't  remember where I got it several years ago), but it comes in a gallon paint can and must be applied like paint (brush, spray, etc.), but it's worth the effort.  I used it to waterproof motorcycle gear, and I would ride year-round, regardless of the weather.  If you can find it, I'm sure that you'll think it worth the search (and effort).  Best of luck to you.

Ever in service.
Marion du Massue
House of Brick.

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Edited by Mark S. Harris	tent-care-msg	Page 12 of 12