tent-alt-msg - 3/22/02 Alternatives to tents for SCA events. NOTE: See also the files: SCA-gates-msg, pavilions-msg, tent-dsguises-msg, thatch-roofs-msg, wattle-daub-msg, buildings-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Wed, 18 May 94 09:43:01 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op Megan here. I sleep on a bed. Well, actually, IN a bed, a shutbed to be precise. It is period in appearance, if not in material. The mattress is a foam mattress with eggcrate overlay for extra softness. I cover it with a white bedsheet, several warm blankets of handspun handwoven wool, and overall a brocaide cloth. My pillow is a feather pillow. I have a window on my right which opens out and up as a shutter. When I am lucky, Ellisif plays her gentle dulcimer beneath my window as I wake. When I am unlucky, some *6x$%&(&x:+$^!!! scot plays wretched bagpipes. (well, actually this only happened once. After what I said to him, I doubt if he'll ever return!) ON the left I have a curtain which is attached to rings that slide on a dowel to close off the 3 foot opening to my bed.At night I close these curtains, and enjoy the warmth of my cosy bed. It also keeps out the flies. Above my bed is a storage loft. I used to have a young apprentice who slept up there. Beneath my bed is another storage area, curtained off so you can't see the refrigerator where I hide my medications... Also, in the bed compartment are shelves. The ones you can see from outside the compartment have period looking containers on them, which hold mundane necessities. The ones you can't see have the bug spray, the matches, the alarm clock, the emergency flashlight. I also hang my hat on a peg on the wall above my feet. Outside my bed, hanging on the wall, I keep an orinale, like any sensible person. G'night all! BTW, when it rains really hard, I close my window and go back to sleep. Megan == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: Tue, 24 May 94 02:11:42 EDT Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca writes: > Eyrny, commenting on Megan's bed... > > Gee, you don't need a tent any more, you've got everything you need in your > bed! > > But how do you transport the thing? > > Eyrny Megan again. Oops, sorry, I forget that there are folks here on the bridge who have not been to Pennsic. A brief explanation is in order here. I got tired of camping in a tent. They leak, they are too cold at night, to hot by day, the are dank, they blow over in 60 mph winds, and artwork just isn't safe in them. I built a house. A 14 foot long little house, mounted on a flatbed trailer, which used to travel behind my van but now lives permanantly at Cooper's lake. It was so wonderful that now my husband built his own there to house his toy shop, and friends of ours built a version which can be disassembled and transported in the back of a school bus. Houses...the wave of the future. Actually,and I may have posted this trivia before....there is good precedent for what we are doing. The methodist campground at Oak Bluffs on Martha's Vineyard started out as a tent city like Pennsic, with members of their group meeting each summer. Then they added wooden sides to their tents for stability in bad weather, like Aelfwine's house. Then they roofed the houses over, added porches, and they became permanent structures. This evolution took place over 2 generations. I guess as we get older, we will want our creature comforts more and more. My little house is a model roughly based on the temporary fair cabins erected at the Lyons Fair in the 15-16 centuries. Claus's is a model of a Scandinavian house of the early 16th century. We sleep and merchant out of our houses. The wheels are disguised with boxes, and the bases are framed with fake brick, which passes the 10 foot test, if sufficiently augmented with barrels, boxes, plants, etc. I also plant a garden, with actual period rose bushes (my favorite is from a slip belonging to Henry VIII's mother) lillies, medicinal herbs, dyestuffs, pinks, and a hedge fence. Each year we add something new. Last year we added a porch to the toyshop and a mullet glass window to my house. I figure it this way...some people spend thousands each year on vacations anyway...we have our vacation one step further: we not only escape from our mundane jobs, we escape from our mundane selves as well. Megan, warm and dry by night, cool and shaded by day. Life is good. Pigs still don't fly, tho' ;-) == In 1994: Linda Anfuso In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644 YYY YYY meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY | |____n____| From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Re:Sleeping at Pennsic (was newbie) Date: 25 May 94 13:30:00 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. >Actually,and I may have posted this trivia before....there is good >precedent for what we are doing. The methodist campground at Oak Bluffs >on Martha's Vineyard started out as a tent city like Pennsic, with >members of their group meeting each summer. Then they added wooden sides >to their tents for stability in bad weather, like Aelfwine's house. Then >they roofed the houses over, added porches, and they became permanent >structures. This evolution took place over 2 generations. I guess as we >get older, we will want our creature comforts more and more. I can do you an earlier precedant for buildings replacing tents than that! In Iceland the annual law gathering or allthing was held on the same spot each year. Vikings came in their longships from far and wide, they set up their large tents and camped out whilst the allthing took place. We know where they camped because they left behind stone walls. A roof needs a lot of maintenance, and would have been awkward to build as the allthing site didn't have ready supplies of timber. So the vikings built stone walls and used their tents as the roofs. This gave them more room than the plain tent would have done, and the tent roof could be securely anchored to the walls using the same system that tied it to the ship sides when the tents were pitched across the long ships decks at sea. All this took place a millenium ago, all that remains today is the overgrown walls and the mound where the lawspeaker stood. Jennifer/Rannveik Vanaheim vikings From: BHAMILTON at wsmr-emh81.army.MIL (Brent R. Hamilton) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Pennsic trailers Date: 4 May 1995 11:34:00 -0400 Organization: The Internet A couple of years ago, after a period of much travel to SCA camping events, I retired my tent and built myself a small camping trailer. Since then, I've been much more comfortable at events and my pre- and post- event prep time is reduced because I leave most of my gear in the trailer between events. Set-up and take-down time is also reduced, so I can pull into the site at the usual late hour and have a place to sleep without waking up other campers with all of that pole clanging and stake pounding. Its also nice to be able to lock up most of my gear when I'm out fighting etc., a increasingly more important concern at larger events. I'm pretty well satisfied with the convenience of this type of camping, but I have given some thought to the impact that we RV types are having on the SCA culture. We are still in the minority, although the few comments that I've had from tent campers have been more like good-natured ribbing about my luxurious lifestyle ;). My rule of thumb for minimizing impact on the period feel of the site has been to hide myself among the vehicles out in the parking lot. Unfortunately, most event autocrats don't seem to give much thought to RV's and the parking areas are pretty far away from the field, especially when you're carrying armor. For some of the less accessible sites, I'm currently planning on putting up some of those reed screens and concealing my trailer down among the tents. I'm working on the same 'out of sight out of mind' theory that people use for plastic armor, ice chests etc. I think that this should be acceptable for any area except the Enchanted Ground's. Anybody want to throw in an opinion? I welcome your comments or criticisms. Breanainn O' Coinghiollain (DISCREET RV heretic) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ojid.wbst845 at xerox.com (Orilee Ireland-Delfs) Subject: Re: Pennsic trailers Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 16:53:43 GMT Our Baron and Baroness have purchased a small camping trailer to take to camping events and such. They have painted the outside to resemble the walls of a stone castle, added detachable crenellations to the top as well as fold out pieces in front and back to hide the trailer hitch (and as a side effect provide some shade to the ends of the trailer). The windows have been "leaded" with paint, and the whole thing looks wonderful! If you go to Pennsic, locate the Barony of Thescorre (look for the three ravens) and ask to see Devon and Daedra's castle. It's delightful. The only problem they have now is that our annual camping event in July is held on the other side of a gorge in a State Park and there is no way to get the trailer in there (you either haul your stuff over the footbridge or you take a chance with your shocks and undercarriage by using the access road - which, if it's wet, could be hazardous for even a 4-wheel drive vehicle). So, a little imagination and some well-applied paint may help you to "disguise" your trailer. Devon and Daedra say it was worth the effort just to see the looks on the faces of other drivers as they cruise the interstate with it behind them! Orianna From: zaphod at zoology.ubc.ca (Lance R. Bailey) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: not a tent, a SHED! Date: 23 Apr 1996 02:51:59 GMT Organization: The University of British Columbia i've been tossing about an idea, and i'm looking for feedback. i've spent a lot of nights in mundane (nylon) tents, (or a leanto in winter) and for the sca i instead am thinking of making a house that comes apart. each side would be a series of sections; 3.5' by 6', made from 2X2 studs/plates and 1/4" plywood. an 11.5' long wall would thus be 3 sections bolted together and then all three to a final long 2X2 acting as an additional bottom plate. end walls would be 7 feet long (two sections bolted together) and have a slope built into the top plate create a roof that rises from 6' up to 8' over the 3.5' (rise of 30 deg. enough for runoff). the roof is still up in the air (look, look, a twit wannabee!) but will probably plywood sections for support, a poly tarp for waterproofing and a final layer of a thatch look-alike (straw or burlap or something yet to be suggested). i instead might try to get away with a beam for a ridge with some poles for rafters and then the poly followed by decorative cover. each section should be light enough to carry, with a dolly or hand truck of some sort i could get them into camp pretty quick for assembly on site. by painting it right, it should resemble a stone shed. i realize i could do this with frame and canvas, but i have no facilities to paint and dry the canvas, and a stone house that flaps in the wind holds little appeal. i like someone being able to come up and *knock* on the doorframe. any comments? anyone else seen this done? anyone else done this? -- devin o raudh, Lion's Gate, An Tir Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: jschmidt at netcom.com (John R. Schmidt) Subject: Re: not a tent, a SHED! Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:53:15 GMT Master Fionn MacPhail, OL, built such a thing here after being inspired by Pennsic, and the structures and cathedral there. He used 2x4 and full sheets of plywood, giving an 8' tall wall, and canvas over a ridgepole for the roof. The sections were made, assembled, painted, and marked for re-assembly. To make the shed rigid, crosspieces (again 2x4) were placed across the short side of the roof. Decoration made the shed look half timbered, and one section had a door, and three windows. It is a marvelous thing, but a bit too labor intensive for just a weekend event. I believe he has it for sale, but it is in the South Bay area of the San Francisco Bay, a bit far to see. Cheers, John Painting/Drilling/Bolting crew on this project From: jmb31 at cornell.edu (Jim Brewster) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: not a tent, a SHED! Date: 23 Apr 1996 21:33:22 GMT Organization: Boyce Thompson Institute Master Seppo Temminen of Sterlynge Vayle has designed and built a fantastic 2-story Tudor-style merchant's house with ground-floor space for a potter, a jeweler, and a couple other crafters, which has also served as a tavern. It has two spacious lofts with sleeping room for 2-3 adults in each one. The house is built with a fairly elaborate post and beam frame, plywood walls, and a canvas roof. It comes apart fairly easily and fits on a ~15 ft. trailer. If you were at Pennsic the last two years, you would have seen it, last year next to the food vendors. And of course it will be back again this year as he stored it at the site. Hauling it 300+ miles really is a pain! Jim Raising and Razing Crew Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ederd at bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Dani Eder) Subject: Re: Shed, not a tent Organization: The Boeing Company Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:14:09 GMT v081lu33 at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN) writes: > I've really been wanting to do something similar for the past >couple of years, and I've even drawn up plans. Mine, though, would >be put together to look like a half-timber cottage, with a tarp roof >that would have straw glued to it. > The only problem is, how would I get such a construction from >New York to Pennsic, short of a U-Haul? I'm considering building a 'little house on the trailer' as my next 'tent' project. I already have a 7x16 foot flatbed trailer (which was pretty full last year going to Pennsic). The attraction of having a 'house' is that packing would consist of hooking up the trailer, and setting up camp would consist of unhooking the trailer and dropping hinged underpinning panels to hide the wheels. In case anyone else is interested in such a project, the trailer I bought cost $900 and can carry 7000 lb gross and 5000 lb net. Another attraction of a little house is to be able to use a real roof, and to be high enough off the ground to avoid getting wet. Daniel of Raven's Nest From: ailith at cannet.com at cannet.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Trailers at pennsic Date: 5 Jun 1996 10:48:36 GMT Organization: APK - Internet Provider for Ohio. In <4oo2g9$6np at tribune.concentric.net>, greeder at concentric.net writes: > >I would definitly cover, or otherwise hide, that popup. Me thinks that it >would be very out of place. With a little carfull placement, some curtains... >It could work. >That said; Be aware that I don't know what the actual regulations are >concerning this. I have heard that campers are not allowed at SCA events. >If that is the case then it doesn't matter how well you hide it. (or maybe >you will just have to hide it _realy_ well [ grin ]. >Does anyone know the actual rules ?? I don't know about the actual rules, however, I have seen at least one pop-up at Estrella in years past. It was cleverly disguised as a wee tiny stone keep, as I recall. They added a canvas skirting around the aluminum sides and painted it and the top (I think) to resemble stones walls. Ailith From: bwoodruf at lcp.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Trailers at pennsic Date: 5 Jun 1996 17:53:09 GMT Organization: Thomson Professional Publishing ailith at cannet.com at cannet.com writes: >I have seen at least one pop-up at Estrella in years past. It was cleverly >disguised as a wee tiny stone keep, as I recall. ... > Ailith The Baron and Baroness of Thescorre (East) have had a trailer for the past few years at Pennsic that is quite cleverly disguised as a castle. They use a wooden frame to extend the ends as towers and also cover the lower/wheel area. It is painted to resemble stonework. They made sure to seek permission from the Coopers in advance and have had no problems with it. I have also seen appropriately disguised pop-ups. I believe that in general, trailers are not allowed at Pennsic, but with a good disguise and advance permission, it can be managed. - Kathira um Rashid From: lobel at is.nyu.edu (Sheldon Lobel) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period Trailer Date: 6 Jun 1996 16:20:45 GMT Organization: New York University I need some helpfull advice from engineers, physicists, and such technical folks. A bit ago I found some images of Kipchak tents (10th-12th cent.). This is basically a large wooden box on wheels, open to the sky, with the top covered by a triangle tent. The tent seems to have a central pole with the bottom of the tent attached to the sides of the box. The Kipchaks lived in these full time and hitched them to horses for transport. The pictures show a number of folks peeking out - implying a fairly large (in my estimate 8 or 9 foot) floor area. I've been toying with building one but haven't the knowledge necessary to make it sturdy enough for hitching to my car on the way from Brooklyn to Pennsic. Thus, what I'm looking for is specs on materials and construction. Ie: type of wood, necessary thickness, brakets necessary, type of join necessary, etc. Illustration: /\ / \ / \ fabric tent ---------( )------cut------ / \ / \ -------------------------- || | | || || | | || || | wood box | || || | | || || | | || || | | || || -------------------------- || || || || || || || ^------- wheels ---------------^ Any help would be much apreciated. Thank you. Nahum ha Kuzar From: dave.calafrancesco at drakkar.mhv.net (David Calafrancesco) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Period Trailer Date: 06 Jun 96 20:15:48 Organization: Druid's Grove FIDO -> Internet Gateway lobel at is.nyu.edu wrote in a message to All: li> I need some helpfull advice from engineers, physicists, and li> such technical folks. li> A bit ago I found some images of Kipchak tents (10th-12th li> cent.). Neat.... but don't leave us hanging... where did you find them?!?!? name your sources pretty please ;) li> This is basically a large wooden box on wheels, open li> to the sky, with the top covered by a triangle tent. The li> tent seems to have a central pole with the bottom of the li> tent attached to the sides of the box. Sounds like a standard 'officers' style tent attached to the sides instead of the ground. Also called a wedge and seen used by civ war and rev war re-enactors (sans trailer). So canvas will be easy to make. li> The Kipchaks lived in these full time and hitched them to li> horses for transport. The pictures show a number of folks li> peeking out - implying a fairly large (in my estimate 8 or 9 li> foot) floor area. I assume you mean an 8 or 9 foot long floor area by circa 6-7 feet wide. For a total of 63 square feet. li> I've been toying with building one but haven't the li> knowledge necessary to make it sturdy enough for hitching to li> my car on the way from Brooklyn to Pennsic. Ahh... well let me help you in that matter... you don't build the trailer part. You go and locate and purchase a decent utility trailer whose box/floor has rotted away but whose wheels and frame are in fine shape. Old pop-up travel trailers (campers) are perfect for something like this. I would use the style that has the wheels underneath the floor (for reasons I will get into in a minute). Also look for a trailer with a single box beam hitch versus the triangle style (again to be explained). Depending on condition I would strip all the old surfaces off the frame (leave the floor if it is in very good condfition. If you are lucky enough to get a whole trailer in decent condition then you would want to just add enough wood around the box to make the box look proper. Otherwise you will use 3/4" outdoor, marine or pressure treated grade plywood for the floor. You will make two back sections, one will have the requisite lighting units attached and the other will have the brackets for the tent pole as well as a nice little door to ease entry. The assembly would be by interior brace/support. Lay the plywood on the deck of the frame if you need to replace the deck. Around the 2 sides and front attach a 2x2 to the outer edge of the deck with good decking screws up from the bottom into the 2x2. Across the back you would have the 2x2 cleat stop where your door will be placed. At all corners and where the door would be add a 2x2x(height of sides) in all 4 corners so that you effectively have posts standing up. Attach the side walls to these posts screwing liberally from the outside into the 2x2 cleat. With plywood you always want to screw into the solid wood. You should also glue the joints together as you screw them to make the strongest joint. Use the glue that comes in a caulking gun tube and is designed for framing and sheathing houses. Alternatively you could build up your sides using lapped siding (much more expensive), or a type of plywood called T1-11 cut so the side runs the length of the 4x8 sheet might give you enough texture and look to satisfy you. Check your local lumber yards for what you can afford and what will look good enough for you. If you are a glutton for punishment you can obtain rough cut barn siding to more closely approximate what their texture would be like. Height of the sides will be dependant on the type of material you use as well as what your estimates are from the pictures you are using. Assume the people are smaller than they are today and adjust accordingly as they would have built for their stature we should build for ours as well. Anyway, you attach the siding to the vertically mounted 2x2s you can add additional 2x2s with 45 degree cuts on the end as diagonal braces to the vertical corner pieces for even more stability. Generally the vertical pieces should be stable enough. You will want to add a 2x2 top rail around the wall pieces for additional stability. Every 2' or so you would place another vertical piece attached to the top and bottom rails as well as the siding. Make sure the siding extends low enough to cover the metal frame of the trailer. By screwing the corners together through the 2x2 you have each side supporting it's adjacent side. This plan faulters when we get to the back end because of the door. You should probably make a 3-6" stub wall on the side where the door will be to give a diagonal brace to the back corner of the trailer. I mentioned earlier you can make two back ends to allow for easy swap of lighting equipment. As an alternative you can use a screwdriver and remove the lights when you get to camp and push the wires (with a quick connector system for easy removal) back through the hole. Ignore the holes and treat them as another knot hole. If you choose the remove the lights system then you only need one back door assembly and your trailer will consequently be sturdier. Otherwise you will have to attach the two different back panels using some type of bolt or other arrangement to allow changing. Seeing as how NY State requires amber side clearance lights I'd opt for removable lights and just remove them for the duration. I will outline what I would do for the door and rear section. Assuming your trailer is 6' 6" wide (rather standard size if I recall correctly) I would place the door on one or the other side of center approximately 6-8" from the side piece. I would also go 6-8" from the center point of the trailer. So, for the 6.5' trailer the door would be up to 27" wide. If necessary you can reduce the distance past the center point to 3" for a 30" door but most camper doors are smaller than 27". There should definately be a diagonal inside the wall for the back section. Whether an angle bracket (angled into the bed of the trailer) is needed to support the tent pole will depend on how sturdy your construction is. # #Tp #eo #nl #te # ====================================||===============||========= #\ # # # * /#h # l#\ /# #\\ # # # * //#id # a#\\ //# # \\ # # # *// #no # t# \\ // # # \\ # # # // #go # c# \\// # # \\ # # # // #er # h# V/ # # \\ # # # //* #d================# // # ================================================================ Use 2+" hardwood closet rod for the tent pole and you will want to attach a cross piece between the poles to reduce the stress on the pole mounting. By adding the cross pole you reduce entirely the tendancy to pull the poles into the center of the trailer. You will locate some long nails and predrill the ends of the two poles just a bit smaller than the nails and drive the nails into the poles. Leaving only enough to go through most of the cross bar (more closet rod). Cut off the head of the nail and file the end over round. Make sure none of it extends through the cross piece and round the end of the cross pieces. You don't need any tiedowns on the end of the poles so extending the nails through the canvas is not at all necessary. Consequently that is one less water leak you need to worry about. When you sew your canvas make sure you allow for a generous overlap near the door to keep rain out, also make an overlapping flap to cover the attachments you use for the canvas to the top of the walls. I would probably use a grommet strip and have holes spaced every 6 inches or so and lace or tie the canvas to the holes. The flap should be circa 6" to keep rain from entering. You can drill a few holes every couple of inches in the lower section of your poles to allow you to tighten the canvas by raising the pole and inserting a rounded end nail through the hole above your top bracket. The bracket can be made out of available cable/pipe tie down clamps (electrical/plumbing dept) or made from flat steel/iron stock cold pounded into the correct shape. Attach some 2x4 blocks to the wall where the poles are attached to distribute the pressure to the wall instead of on the screw of the clamp only. The wheels of the actual trailer are under the bed of trailer but visible from the sides so we create a fake wheel to cover them. Using either 1/2" plywood or several 1x6 pine boards (with cross cleats) cut a large (3+') wheel. You will attach using a fake hub looking arrangement (ie bolted through to the wall with some blocks behind it and on the outside looking like a wagon wheel hub. These are purely decorative and hold no weight whatsover. I'd probably dig a bit into the ground to give the impression of great weight from the wagon, after all wagons always left ruts in the roads. You will also need 4 jacks in the four corners of the trailer to keep the floor stable when you get in and walk around. I would use standard travel trailer jack stands and cover them in some way (a 2 sides wooden cover or something similar). You will also want to make a long wooden 3 sidedd chanel box to cover the front hitch post as that is not safely removed and a wooden hitch harness would have been used instead of the metal box beam. Decorate it with cross beams for horses if desired. li> Thus, what I'm looking for is specs on materials and li> construction. Ie: type of wood, necessary thickness, brakets li> necessary, type of join necessary, etc. Hope this was sufficient... ;) Please send the references to the pictures you found as well as personal information so I can credit you with the idea as this could make a nice A&S article. Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East haraldr at drakkar.mhv.net Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2 dave at drakkar.mhv.net From: lobel at is.nyu.edu (Sheldon Lobel) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Period Trailer Date: 9 Jun 1996 21:29:29 GMT Organization: New York University David Calafrancesco (dave.calafrancesco at drakkar.mhv.net) wrote: : lobel at is.nyu.edu wrote in a message to All: : : li> I need some helpfull advice from engineers, physicists, and : li> such technical folks. : : li> A bit ago I found some images of Kipchak tents (10th-12th : li> cent.). : : Neat.... but don't leave us hanging... where did you find them?!?!? name your : sources pretty please ;) Artamanov, "History of the Jewish Khazars" (I may be a bit off on the title. he wrote two books on the Khazars, this is the big fat one.) The book is in Russian - I don't know if there is a Russian translation. The picture is from a Russian manuscript. Thanks for the practical advice. Nahum ha Kuzar From: randy at stonemarche.org Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Trailers at pennsic Date: 7 Jun 1996 03:05:09 GMT Organization: randy or amy at stonemarche.org I know of at least two families from our Barony that take their trailers to PENNSIC. They have a large canvas/sailcloth like material covering for the trailer to wear. This gives it a pavilion style look. The real give away is tires showing because they didn't make it long enough and the cool white florscent style camp lights glowing inside. I know of one gentle that made an elephant out of his van. Most intriguing eh. Lord Dorian of Whispering Oaks [mda Randy Perryman] From: Tanya Guptill Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:43:25 -0700 Rich Hicks wrote: > This summer my husband and I plan to build a portable house to bring to > Pennsic. The response this announcement usually brings from most > scadians is a long strange stare and then some useful comments about how > we should go about this project. The house will be a mock wattle and > daub peasant's hut. Any suggestions anyone has about how to go about > this project would be useful. Specifically, I am looking for some way > to make the outside of the house textured to resemble the uneven surface > of wattle and daub. Also I want to make it light. It needs to come > home in a trailer. The basic construction will be planks and probably > foam boards, not styrofoam however (too brittle and too flammable) I > know it is a strange and crazy project even by SCA standards but I > intend to see it through. Any constructive advice would be much > appreciated. -Jocelyne de Vaselais Actually, there are several people that have been kind enough to make their portable house information available on the Internet. There is a list under the PORTABLE STRUCTURES/BUILDINGS on http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/tentlinks2.htm, but the specific pages that you may want to view are http://www.bcu.ubc.ca/~zaphod/sca/shed/ Plans for a portable 'stone' shed http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/house1portable1.pdf and http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/house1portable2.pdf are parts I and II on building a 'thatched' roof structure, very much like what you describe. There is a picture of the cottage at http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/toc.htm. The first two links are in PDF format, so you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view them. http://www.zbd.com/LePG/index.html Building Le Poulet Gauche, a 16th Century tavern that disassembles http://dulcimer.com/pennsic/grifden.html Griffin's Den--Detailed photos of assembly of large, wooden framed structure I wish you and yours best of luck in your endeavors! If you have it finished by Pennsic, I would love to take a picture of it to add to my web page. Your servant, Mira Silverlock McKendrick From: "Anastasia" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:01:34 -0400 Organization: Internet Maine/HarvardNet If you haven't done so already, then you might want to check out the website for the Knowne World Architectural Guild, at http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/toc.htm Syr Arloff, the editor, built the portable cottage on the first page, and gives instructions for building it in issue one (which is also on line). I know he used it at Pennsic for one year, possibly two. Or, you can email him directly at mpower at ime.net (His email is listed several times on the site). I feel sure he will have great enthusiasm for your project. Hope that helps! I look forward to seeing the results at Pennsic! Anastasia From: christopher gilman Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: 22 Jun 1999 12:05:27 PDT Organization: Global Effects Inc. If you use fiberglass and polyester resin or "Bondo" (or any cheaper auto body filler) laid up on plywood. (you can add white pigment to make it white or paint it with a flat white paint) This will give you a simulated daub that will be flexible and light. This added between pine boards that have been burned with a torch then wire brushed this will simulate an aged beam. Then clear coat the beam with a brushed on coat of polyester resin to seal it and give the fake daub a good surface to stick to. With all of these technique's try them on scraps of materials with a good photo of the real thing right in front of you. DON'T RELY ON YOUR MEMORY! The biggest mistake people make in reproducing something, is not having good reference in front of them as they work. I've been doing this type of thing for 20 years professionally. If you would like to see some of the things we have built, My web page is http://www.globaleffects.com If you need reference look for a book called, "The English Mediaeval House" by Margaret Wood, 1994 Studio Editions Ltd. ISBN 1 85891 167 2 Chris Gilman/ Sir Gaston Bonneville de la Croix From: christopher gilman Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: 22 Jun 1999 18:27:17 PDT Organization: Global Effects Inc. william thomas powers wrote: > > >This added between pine boards that > >have been burned with a torch then wire brushed this will simulate an aged > >beam. > > >The biggest mistake > >people make in reproducing something, is not having good reference in front > >of them as they work. > > > Another common mistake is to age something that would have been brand new > to your personna---that cruck house you built should look brand new and not > like it was 600 years old > > This shows up in A&S quite often: people artificially age items to make them > look like a piece in a museum with centuries of use/abuse/neglect when the > piece *should* look like you just made it; or if it is a heirloom like your > father or grandfather made it and not like your great-great-great-great-great > -great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great > -great-great-grandfather made it; but in a style that would not appear for > another 600 years after his death... > > wilelm the smith This is a very good point. However raw oak lumber would have been aged/or sun dried before it was used. Sometimes they painted the beams with pitch to seal them. Also the grain in pine is much finer than oak. The wire brush technique gives the wood the appearance of heavy grain, at about 1/10 the cost of solid oak beams. One must also add some type of aging and artistic touch, because most people expect the item to look a certain way. If it looks too "New" then it has a tendency to look fake. But as you pointed out this can go too far and I fight this all the time in movies. C. Gilman From: powers at cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: 23 Jun 1999 13:56:05 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science >> Another common mistake is to age something that would have been brand new >> to your personna---that cruck house you built should look brand new and not >> like it was 600 years old >This is a very good point. However raw oak lumber would have been aged/or sun >dried before it was used. I work a lot with air dried lumber; it doesn't look like the torch/brush has been used on it---even the pieces of a 200 year old barn! > Sometimes they painted the beams with pitch to seal them. I am more familiar with the scandanavian technique of stripping conifers and allowing the tree to form a layer of pitch before cutting it down and using it for building. > Also the grain in pine is much finer than oak. The wire brush technique >gives the wood the appearance of heavy grain, at about 1/10 the cost of solid >oak beams. Well if you are trying to fake oak instead of using pine for pine which was used for buildings in certain areas---though the grain on pine just doesn't look like oak no mater what you do; especially the european oaks. > One must also add some type of aging and artistic touch, because most >people expect the item to look a certain way. If it looks to "New" then it has >a tendency to look fake. But as you pointed out this can go to far and I fight >this all the time in movies. Well this is a personal call; I'd rather educate folk than help cement them in their errors. I've always found that real wear and weathering do a sufficient job; of course using recycled wood can jumpstart the aging process. william the smith [who has] got beech drying in the garage attic, maple and osage orange drying in the basement and dunnage lumber piled where ever there's room. From: mizzi at aol.com (Mizzi) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Date: 23 Jun 1999 15:00:03 GMT > One must also add some type of aging and artistic touch, because most >people expect the item to look a certain way. If it looks to "New" then it has >a tendency to look fake. But as you pointed out this can go to far and I fight >this all the time in movies. Having just read "The Ties that Bound", a history book of family life of the English Peasantry in the 13th/14th cent. I have a comment on wattle & daub houses. The author confirms that they were the most common type of housing used by the peasants and that they were indeed small, 3 rooms at the outside. Lofts were pretty common and used for storage and sleeping. But about the age of the house. She found evidence that a particular house rarely lasted more than about 20 years. By the time the kid inherits (son or daughter) there was so much repair to be done on the old house that the inheritor would simply build a new one. A big advantage of wattle & daub as a construction technique is that it's quick and cheap being made from readily available materials. OTOH It's very suceptible to water dammage if the roof leaks and thatched roofs did eventually leak. It was a slowish process but over time the roof developed leaks and the walls developed weaknesses. Yes you could repair but it was a loosing battle and you eventually picked a spot not too far away on your home acre or so and built another house. Sometimes the old house was used as a barn. Other times when the old house was in better shape than usual it was the oldsters in the family that got a new little 'dower house'. In later centuries, when construction changed to stone and timber houses were preserved from generation to generation and got that real 'old' look. Just a note in passing. The prospect of more neat looking dewllings at Pennsic is exciting. I wish you well. YIS, Mairgret From: nostrand at macol.net (Barbara Nostrand) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Seek advice for portable house Organization: de Moivre Institute Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:28:39 -0500 After two Pennsics, your hut will never pass for new. The best thing to do is to finish your wood surfaces in the same way that they would have been finished back when and then let nature take its course. If you are impatient for it to look weathered, set it up in your back yard for a couple of months. Wood tends to bleach out and turn grey with age. This is accelarated by exposure to water. Finally, who says that all houses were made out of oak? Please do not try to have your wood pretend to belong to a different species. If you must have oak, then pay for oak. Otherwise, find another species that was used in your area of interest. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar Subject: [MedEnc] Costco Carports Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:31:51 -0700 From: "Mira (Tanya Guptill)" To: MedievalEncampments at egroups.com Timorra wrote: > As am owner of the evil costco carport .. :) i understand what you mean > I am currently in the process of converting it to something that is more > presentable Actually, the neatest adaptation of a Costco carport I've seen yet was at the recent An Tir Crown. Someone had decided his new tent has the same shape as an (admittedly small) thatched roof house. He put walls on it, and a real wood door, and it was very interesting what a difference these changes made to this tent! He told me his next thing to do was paint the walls and put on a roll up straw 'thatch' roof. I thought it was an interesting and original idea. Mira From: margali Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: tent/pavilion question Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:25:55 -0500 All of the tent suggestions are good, Panther Primitives, Four Seasons Tentmasters and the like. If you really want something that is off-beat, how about a gypsy varda? http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/wagon.htm Do keep inmind that you don't have to match your persona to anything else [garb, camping gear, whatnot] if you don't want to ... many people have generic pennsic personas that don't match their regular ones so they can be comfortable in garb they wouldn't normally wear, or things like viking tents or yurts that would not have been suitable for their regular personas. I have been lobbying my lord to make me a varda for non pennsic camping as he is going to a new duty station 2 states away so we will either not be camping together or will be arriving a 2 very different times. This way, whether or not I have somebody to help me set things up or load vehicles, I hitch up and schlep to the event, where I unhitch, camo the modern wheels, put on the fake wheels and decorate. Pop the top and I'm all set! margali From: tollhase1 at aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:53:28 EDT Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] garage tents or the walls came tumbling down. Don't know about the thatch roof for sure. I just remember that it exists. Will need to check on it. Walls. There are many options. One of my dreams to is to make one like the potter place in the bazaars area with a second floor. Or course, you can paint canvas, plywood or vinyl as you mentioned. Taking 1-1/2 or thicker foam and carving stones, blocks, etc., is always possible. Rasps, hand sander works quite well. For added strength cover with cheesecloth/muslin. Cheap sheets from salvation army/good will are fine. And a good polyvinyl glue (water proof) Then paint. Added texture with the use of sand or saw dust for example. If you want grout, etc., clothes line, use a mixture of glue and sawdust and a cake decorator. These could be full sheets or blocks added to say Luan. Blocks could overlap to hid seams. I have seen this foam as thick as 4." Used it for targets. Remember Flame proof things. The foam has the added benefit of it being insulation. Keep heat in or out. Windows could be added by the use of 1 x? And Plexiglas painted with stained glass colours. Use of commercial fake leading is available. However, I have found that the black Silicone tub water sealer works as well and cheaper. These windows could open, have screens as well as curtains. Doors are harder due to the stresses involved. I would probably go with a canvas flap to make my life easier. Or one could use a box frame with the door within. Drive spikes into the ground and tie securely to the pipe structure of your tent. A compromise could be a fabric background and the use of soft foam so it could be rolled up. USE FLEXIBLE paint and glue. A product by Rosco called flex-glue works well. Dye and paints can be added to this with diminishing returns. This will tend to retain the curved shape even when up until the sun helps it straighten out. Would you prefer a half timbered look. Also easily done. Frederich To: spca-wascaerfrig at yahoogroups.com From: tollhase1 at aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:16:01 EDT Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] garage tents or the walls came tumbling down. So one could use cotton clothes lines as a grout look. Or, use a mixture of saw dust, glue and or paint to make another type. The latter would need a cake decorator to apply easily. Frederich Edited by Mark S. Harris tent-alt-msg Page 19 of 19