fountains-msg - 9/30/07 Discussions about period fountains. Building replica fountains. NOTE: See also the files: table-fountns-msg, Tubd-a-Scrubd-art, Perfumes-bib, perfumes-msg, rose-water-msg, waterbearing-msg, decadence-msg, Medvl-bathng-lnks. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:59:48 -0400 From: "Jeff Gedney" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: Cooks within the SCA > So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a > post-Renaissance electric fountain kit? I'm thinking, an adjoining > reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout. > Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout. Refill as necessary, > isn't that what servants are for? Heck, My dear! The common pump is plainly and documentably period. Also could use a bladder to hold the reservoir of liquid and applied pressure to it. In fact, Coopers sells bota's that could easily have served in this capacity. Capt Elias Dragonship Haven, East (Stratford, CT, USA) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:43:25 -0400 From: "Elise Fleming" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" Selene asked: > So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a > post-Renaissance electric fountain kit? I'm thinking, an adjoining > reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout. > Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout. Refill as necessary, > isn't that what servants are for? No answer, but there's that lovely Italian table fountain that was featured at the Cleveland Museum of Art. They did a computer-animated version showing how it would have looked when active. Might still be online on their web site... Alys Katharine Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: Cooks within the SCA There is a 14th century table fountain at the Cleveland Museum of Art. http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/burgundy/html/1080248.html It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it does work. Mordonna Lady Anne du Bosc known as Mordonna the Cook Shire of Thorngill, Meridies Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:46:06 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: Cooks within the SCA Found this mention--- For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rocke's class, which numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art . Students were shown various depictions of food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. "It is a mechanically ingenious device and a work of art," Prof. Rocke says. http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/ index.shtml The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the website. It was just for the public attending the show. Johnnae Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:05:59 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: Cooks within the SCA Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person, but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the 2004 volume titled Art from the Court of Burgundy. From the entry there-- "Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and rang the tiny bells. The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle. The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables." S.N.F. There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it. Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata," Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7. pp. 6-49. That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I can find some books too. Johnnae Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:21:37 -0500 From: "Radei Drchevich" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, "Cooks within the SCA" I know the fountians at trevi, and at Versaille are gravity fed. Been a long time since I did that work, give me a little while to go thru the bibliography. That is all still in the old style, on 3X5 index cards, pre-computer research days. radei Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:31:15 -0500 From: "Radei Drchevich" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest To: "Cooks within the SCA" There is one idea I remember from an old reprint of the works of Ptolomy. a lower reservour is gently heated, a thin tube leads to the upper reservour. works like the "loveometer" Spencer Gifts sold in the 1980's. Done correctly it can keep a flow going for hours. as long as the fountains works are not heat sensitive. radei From: Johnna Holloway Date: October 7, 2005 8:17:33 AM CDT To: Stefan li Rous Subject: fountains was Stefan's Florilegium files for October <<< I would love to learn more about how period fountains worked. Does anyone have any recommendations for good books on the subject? Faerisa >>> Here's some other stuff on fountains-- Found this mention--- For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rocke's class, which numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art . Students were shown various depictions of food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. "It is a mechanically ingenious device and a work of art," Prof. Rocke says. http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/ index.shtml The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the website. It was just for the public attending the show. Johnnae Pat wrote: There is a 14th century table fountain at the Cleveland Museum of Art. http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/ burgundy/html/1080248.html It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it does work. Mordonna -------------- Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person, but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the 2004 volume titled Art from the Court of Burgundy. From the entry there-- "Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and rang the tiny bells. The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle. The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables." S.N.F. There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it. Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata," Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7. pp. 6-49. That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I can find some books too. Johnnae Edited by Mark S. Harris fountains-msg Page 5 of 5