Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

fountains-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

fountains-msg – 9/30/07

 

Discussions about period fountains. Building replica fountains.

 

NOTE: See also the files: table-fountns-msg, Tubd-a-Scrubd-art, Perfumes-bib, perfumes-msg, rose-water-msg, waterbearing-msg, decadence-msg, Medvl-bathng-lnks.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:59:48 -0400

From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

> So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a

> post-Renaissance electric fountain kit?  I'm thinking, an adjoining

> reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout.

> Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout.  Refill as necessary,

> isn't that what servants are for?

 

Heck, My dear!

The common pump is plainly and documentably period.

Also could use a bladder to hold the reservoir of liquid

and applied pressure to it. In fact, Coopers sells bota's that could  

easily have served in this capacity.

 

Capt Elias

Dragonship Haven, East

(Stratford, CT, USA)

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:43:25 -0400

From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Selene asked:

> So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a

> post-Renaissance electric fountain kit? I'm thinking, an adjoining

> reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout.

> Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout. Refill as necessary,

> isn't that what servants are for?

 

No answer, but there's that lovely Italian table fountain that was featured

at the Cleveland Museum of Art.  They did a computer-animated version

showing how it would have looked when active.  Might still be online on

their web site...

 

Alys Katharine

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT)

From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

There is a 14th century table fountain at the

Cleveland Museum of Art.

 

http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/burgundy/html/1080248.html

 

It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it  

does work.

 

Mordonna

Lady Anne du Bosc

known as Mordonna the Cook

Shire of Thorngill, Meridies

Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:46:06 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Found this mention---

 

For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rockes class, which

numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art

<http://www.clemusart.com/>;. Students were shown various depictions of

food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a

fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden

pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. It is a

mechanically ingenious device and a work of art, Prof. Rocke says.

 

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/

index.shtml

 

The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the

exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the

website. It was just for the public attending the show.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:05:59 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person,

but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the 2004

volume titled  Art from the Court of Burgundy.

 

From the entry there--

 

"Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through

a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and rang the tiny bells. The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle.

 

The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables."  S.N.F.

 

There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it.

Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata,"

Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7.   pp. 6-49.

 

That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up

automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I  

can find some books too.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:21:37 -0500

From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, "Cooks within the SCA"

        <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

I know the fountians at trevi, and at Versaille are gravity fed.  Been a

long time since I did that work, give me a little while to go thru the

bibliography. That is all still in the old style, on 3X5 index cards,

pre-computer research days.

 

radei

 

 

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:31:15 -0500

From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

There is one idea I remember from an old reprint of the works of

Ptolomy. a lower reservour is gently heated, a thin tube leads to the

upper reservour.  works like the "loveometer" Spencer Gifts sold in the

1980's. Done correctly it can keep a flow going for hours.  as long as

the fountains works are not heat sensitive.

 

radei

 

 

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Date: October 7, 2005 8:17:33 AM CDT

To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Subject: fountains was  Stefan's Florilegium files for October

 

<<< I would love to learn more about how period fountains worked. Does  

anyone have any recommendations for good books on the subject?

 

Faerisa >>>

 

Here's some other stuff on fountains--

 

Found this mention---

 

For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rocke’s class, which  

numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art  

<http://www.clemusart.com/>;. Students were shown various depictions  

of food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a  

fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden  

pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. “It  

is a mechanically ingenious device and a work of art,” Prof. Rocke  

says.

 

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/

index.shtml

 

The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the  

exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the

website. It was just for the public attending the show.

 

Johnnae

 

Pat wrote:

 

There is a 14th century table fountain at the

Cleveland Museum of Art. http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/

burgundy/html/1080248.html

 

It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it  

does work.

Mordonna

--------------

Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person,

but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the  

2004 volume titled  Art from the Court of Burgundy.

 

From the entry there--

 

"Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through

a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and  

rang the tiny bells.  The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle.

 

The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these  

objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do  

not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems  

more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables."  

S.N.F.

 

There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it.

Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata,"

Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7.   pp. 6-49.

 

That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up

automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I  

can find some books too.

 

Johnnae

 

<end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org