cities-msg - 10/24/08 ਀ഊMedieval cities. Urban life. ਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: buildings-msg, bridges-msg, mills-msg, commerce-msg, occupations-msg, prostitution-msg, guilds-msg, p-prices-msg. ਀ഊ************************************************************************ ਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀 渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀 愀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 最椀瘀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 椀猀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous ਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************ ਀ഊFrom: howland at noc.arc.nasa.gov (Chris de H.) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Info Medieval Cities? ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㄀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 　㜀㨀　㄀㨀㌀㘀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: NASA Science Internet Project Office ਀ഊIn article <3klb9m$9rm at ren.fp.co.nz>, ਀洀甀氀瘀愀渀攀洀 愀琀 昀瀀⸀挀漀⸀渀稀 ⠀䴀愀最最椀攀 䴀甀氀瘀愀渀攀礀⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ|> So, does anyone have any references ਀簀㸀 琀漀 戀漀漀欀猀 漀渀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 最漀瘀攀爀渀愀渀挀攀㼀ഊ|> I am particularly interested in the actual political system, ਀簀㸀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀 䴀愀礀漀爀 眀愀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 漀昀昀椀挀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀琀椀愀氀ഊ|> and so on. ਀ഊI read a wonderfull book last year, ਀∀䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䌀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀椀爀 最爀漀愀琀栀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀瘀椀瘀愀氀 漀昀 琀爀愀搀攀∀ഊby Perine or Perene or something close to that, written ਀椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㤀㈀　✀猀⸀ 䤀✀洀 猀甀爀攀 愀渀礀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀 挀愀琀愀氀漀最 眀椀氀氀 最攀琀ഊyou the specifics. ਀ഊIt was quite interesting, not dry reading at all. Rather ਀爀攀昀爀攀猀栀椀渀最 昀漀爀 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 甀猀攀搀 樀甀猀琀 愀猀 愀 琀攀砀琀ⴀ戀漀漀欀ഊmost of the time. ਀ഊ|> I thank you in advance, and remain ਀簀㸀 愀 猀攀爀瘀愀渀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䐀爀攀愀洀ഊ|> ਀簀㸀 䴀愀椀最栀爀攀愀搀 椀渀最攀渀 䴀愀漀椀氀 䴀栀攀愀渀愀 ⠀昀漀爀 渀漀眀Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀⤀ഊ|> Resident in Ildhafn, of the Southern Reaches of Caid ਀簀㸀 洀甀氀瘀愀渀攀洀 愀琀 昀瀀⸀挀漀⸀渀稀ഊ ਀䌀栀爀椀猀琀漀昀攀爀 搀攀 䠀漀礀氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 䔀洀戀愀爀爀愀猀猀愀戀氀攀ഊSouthern Shores, Mists, West. ਀栀漀眀氀愀渀搀 愀琀 渀猀椀瀀漀⸀渀愀猀愀⸀最漀瘀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Info Medieval Cities? ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㄀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀㠀㨀㈀㤀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: Mount Holyoke College ਀ഊ Ah, much better, ok..try Nicholas, _Metamorphasis of a Medieval City_, ਀唀⸀ 一攀戀爀愀猀欀愀 倀爀攀猀猀 ⠀㄀㤀㠀㜀⤀ ⠀漀渀 䜀栀攀渀琀⤀㬀 䈀爀攀渀琀愀渀漀Ⰰ 开刀漀洀攀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 䄀瘀椀最渀漀渀开Ⰰ ഊU.Cal. Press (1990) (WARNING: Presupposes an understanding of basic 13C ਀栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 愀渀搀 ㄀㌀䌀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⤀㬀 愀渀搀 䈀爀甀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 开匀漀挀椀攀琀礀 漀昀 刀攀渀椀愀猀猀愀渀挀攀 ഊFlorence_, Harper & Row (1971). I can't locate the full info on Norwich, ਀开䄀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 嘀攀渀椀挀攀开Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 洀漀猀琀 氀愀爀最攀 ഊBorders-style bookstores. ਀  倀椀爀攀渀渀攀 椀猀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 戀甀琀 洀甀挀栀 漀昀 栀椀猀 琀栀攀猀椀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 爀椀猀攀 漀昀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 ഊhaving to do with Med. Trade has been disproven by later authors. Check ਀漀甀琀 䈀爀愀甀搀攀氀✀猀 开䴀攀搀⸀ 椀渀 䄀最攀 漀昀 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 䤀䤀开Ⰰ 昀漀爀 愀渀 椀渀ⴀ搀攀瀀琀栀 挀爀椀琀椀焀甀攀⸀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: IVANOR at delphi.com ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Info Medieval Cities? ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㈀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㈀㌀㨀㔀　㨀㐀㔀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation ਀ഊQuoting howland from a message in rec.org.sca ਀   㸀⠀䌀栀爀椀猀 搀攀 䠀⸀⤀ 一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀 匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䤀渀昀漀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䌀椀琀椀攀猀㼀ഊ > Date: 21 Mar 1995 07:01:36 GMT ਀   㸀 伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 一䄀匀䄀 匀挀椀攀渀挀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 倀爀漀樀攀挀琀 伀昀昀椀挀攀ഊ > In article <3klb9m$9rm at ren.fp.co.nz>, ਀   㸀 洀甀氀瘀愀渀攀洀 愀琀 昀瀀⸀挀漀⸀渀稀 ⠀䴀愀最最椀攀 䴀甀氀瘀愀渀攀礀⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ > |> So, does anyone have any references ਀   㸀 簀㸀 琀漀 戀漀漀欀猀 漀渀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 最漀瘀攀爀渀愀渀挀攀㼀ഊ > |> I am particularly interested in the actual political system, ਀   㸀 簀㸀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀 䴀愀礀漀爀 眀愀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 漀昀昀椀挀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀琀椀愀氀ഊ > |> and so on. ਀   㸀 䤀 爀攀愀搀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀氀 戀漀漀欀 氀愀猀琀 礀攀愀爀Ⰰഊ > "Medieval Cities, their groath and the revival of trade" ਀   㸀 戀礀 倀攀爀椀渀攀 漀爀 倀攀爀攀渀攀 漀爀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 挀氀漀猀攀 琀漀 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀ഊ > in the 1920's. I'm sure any library catalog will get ਀   㸀 礀漀甀 琀栀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀琀✀猀 䠀攀渀爀椀 倀椀爀攀渀渀攀⸀  䄀 嘀攀爀礀 䔀砀挀攀氀氀攀渀琀 䈀漀漀欀℀ഊ ਀䌀愀爀漀氀礀渀 䈀漀猀攀氀氀椀    䠀漀猀琀 漀昀 䌀甀猀琀漀洀 䘀漀爀甀洀 ㌀㔀    匀䌀䄀搀椀愀渀猀 漀渀 䐀攀氀瀀栀椀ഊIve Annor M'Quhairr of Sighty Crag, AoA, Sen. Canton Dragon Forge, EK ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䤀嘀䄀一伀刀 愀琀 搀攀氀瀀栀椀⸀挀漀洀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䤀渀昀漀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䌀椀琀椀攀猀㼀ഊDate: 22 Mar 1995 23:49:52 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䐀攀氀瀀栀椀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 匀攀爀瘀椀挀攀猀 䌀漀爀瀀漀爀愀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀儀甀漀琀椀渀最 洀甀氀瘀愀渀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 愀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 椀渀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊ > bridge, and would like to thank everyone who responded. Your ਀   㸀 欀椀渀搀渀攀猀猀 眀愀猀 椀渀搀攀攀搀 洀甀挀栀 愀瀀瀀爀攀挀椀愀琀攀搀℀ഊ > Now, the quest goes on. We are indeed pursuing this though of ਀   㸀 愀 ✀猀栀椀爀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀✀ 戀甀琀 渀愀琀甀爀愀氀氀礀 眀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 樀甀猀琀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 挀漀瀀礀ഊ > what's been done before. So, does anyone have any references ਀   㸀 琀漀 戀漀漀欀猀 漀渀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 最漀瘀攀爀渀愀渀挀攀㼀ഊ > I am particularly interested in the actual political system, ਀   㸀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀 䴀愀礀漀爀 眀愀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 漀昀昀椀挀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀琀椀愀氀ഊ > and so on. ਀ഊThe best source I can think of offhand is the Gieses' Life in a Medieval ਀䌀椀琀礀⸀  吀栀攀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 嘀漀氀甀洀攀 䤀䤀 漀昀 开䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 倀爀椀瘀愀琀攀 䰀椀昀攀开⸀ഊ ਀䌀愀爀漀氀礀渀 䈀漀猀攀氀氀椀    䠀漀猀琀 漀昀 䌀甀猀琀漀洀 䘀漀爀甀洀 ㌀㔀    匀䌀䄀搀椀愀渀猀 漀渀 䐀攀氀瀀栀椀ഊIve Annor M'Quhairr of Sighty Crag, AoA, Sen. Canton Dragon Forge, EK ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䄀䰀䈀䄀一 愀琀 搀攀氀瀀栀椀⸀䌀伀䴀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 漀渀攀 挀椀琀礀 椀琀攀洀ഊDate: 27 Mar 1995 01:37:31 -0500 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀ഊ ਀䬀一䜀伀刀䴀䄀一 昀爀漀洀 愀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 椀渀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊ>So, does anyone have any references to books on ਀㸀䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 最漀瘀攀爀渀愀渀挀攀㼀 䤀 愀洀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 ഊ>interested in the actual political system, how the Mayor ਀㸀眀愀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 漀昀昀椀挀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀琀椀愀氀 愀渀搀 猀漀 漀渀⸀ഊgo to your local university library, and look for the works ਀漀昀 瀀攀琀攀爀 爀椀攀猀攀渀戀攀爀最⸀ 栀攀 眀愀猀 洀礀 愀搀瘀椀猀漀爀 椀渀 挀漀氀氀攀最攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊwrote various books and such on italian city-states in our ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 栀椀猀 猀琀甀昀昀 洀愀礀 渀漀琀 戀攀 攀砀愀挀琀氀礀 漀渀 瀀漀椀渀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀攀 ഊshould at least have good bibliographies. ਀ഊalban (ba, history, 1978, and wishes he'd picked a more ਀攀洀瀀氀漀礀愀戀氀攀 洀愀樀漀爀⤀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: finchesa at aol.com (Finchesa) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Info Medieval Cities? ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㤀 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㄀㠀㨀㌀㘀㨀㐀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) ਀ഊYou might enjoy "Life in a Medieval City" by Joseph and Frances Gies... ਀猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 氀漀挀愀氀 戀漀漀欀猀琀漀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: eherring at mindspring.com (Evan L. Herring) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: RE: Info Medieval Cities ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㄀㠀㨀㐀㠀㨀㄀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊOrganization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. ਀ഊTristan Clare de Lune posted in an earlier article: ਀   䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䰀漀爀搀 䠀椀最栀 䴀䄀礀漀爀 漀昀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀瀀瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀ഊMany of the Italian city-states were republican communes, rather oligarchies, ਀眀椀琀栀 最漀瘀攀爀渀椀渀最 戀漀搀椀攀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 栀椀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀瀀瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 戀礀 瘀漀琀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀琀✀猀 洀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀 眀愀猀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀Ⰰ ഊthe Lord Mayor was elected from a council of aldermen made up the heads of the ਀洀漀爀攀 瀀漀眀攀爀昀甀氀 最甀椀氀搀猀Ⰰ 洀漀猀琀 渀漀琀愀戀氀礀 琀栀攀 䴀攀爀挀攀爀猀Ⰰ 䜀爀漀挀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䜀漀氀搀猀洀椀琀栀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀Ⰰ ഊif memory serves, provided the majority of the recorded Mayors throughout the ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀攀 匀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀 琀栀攀 䴀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀 䄀搀瘀攀渀琀甀爀攀爀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀爀漀昀椀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 ഊexpanding Levantine, Baltic and New World markets, began to become more ਀挀漀洀洀漀渀⸀ 䄀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 挀椀琀礀ⴀ猀琀愀琀攀猀Ⰰ 搀攀猀瀀椀琀攀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀甀戀氀椀挀 愀昀昀椀渀椀琀礀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 ഊRepublican traditions of Rome and their use of the Latinate term Civitas in ਀爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀椀爀 挀椀琀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 爀甀氀椀渀最 昀愀洀椀氀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀猀 猀琀爀漀渀最 愀猀 愀渀礀 洀漀渀愀爀挀栀礀⸀ ഊRemember that the northern Italian cities were never considered truly Roman by ਀刀攀瀀甀戀氀椀挀愀渀 刀漀洀愀渀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 愀猀 䜀愀氀氀椀挀 椀渀琀攀爀氀漀瀀攀爀猀 漀渀 昀漀爀洀攀爀氀礀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 ⠀渀漀琀 ഊRoman) soil. Medieval Northern Italians were not even Gauls, but decendants ਀漀昀 琀栀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀椀挀 䰀漀洀戀愀爀搀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 欀椀渀最猀栀椀瀀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 ഊmay have been Roman Colonias, but without checking closely, my memory tends to ਀氀攀愀搀 洀攀 琀漀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀⸀ 䄀渀搀 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 䴀愀挀挀栀椀愀瘀攀氀椀 挀氀愀椀洀攀搀 ഊto only making observations of historical examples in the Prince, not ਀椀渀瘀攀渀琀椀渀最 愀 渀攀眀 猀漀挀椀愀氀 漀爀搀攀爀⸀ 吀栀漀猀攀 眀椀琀栀 瀀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 椀渀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 愀猀 ഊin the more feudal countryside, tended to remain in power. ਀ഊMartin Dragonet ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瘀　㠀㄀氀甀㌀㌀ 愀琀 甀戀瘀洀猀⸀挀挀⸀戀甀昀昀愀氀漀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀吀刀䤀匀吀䄀一 䌀䰀䄀䤀刀 䐀䔀 䰀唀一䔀⼀䬀䔀一 䴀伀一䐀匀䌀䠀䔀䤀一⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 䤀渀昀漀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䌀椀琀椀攀猀ഊDate: 24 Mar 1995 03:54:49 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 愀琀 䈀甀昀昀愀氀漀ഊ ਀䤀渀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 㰀攀栀攀爀爀椀渀最⸀㈀㌀⸀　　㔀　䌀㐀䈀　 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀Ⰰ 攀栀攀爀爀椀渀最 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䔀瘀愀渀 䰀⸀ 䠀攀爀爀椀渀最⤀ 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ>Tristan Clare de Lune posted in an earlier article: ਀㸀   䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䰀漀爀搀 䠀椀最栀 䴀䄀礀漀爀 漀昀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀瀀瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀ഊ>Many of the Italian city-states were republican communes, rather oligarchies, ਀㸀眀椀琀栀 最漀瘀攀爀渀椀渀最 戀漀搀椀攀猀 攀氀攀挀琀攀搀Ⰰ 栀椀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀瀀瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 戀礀 瘀漀琀攀猀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀䤀琀✀猀 洀礀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 Ⰰ 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䰀漀渀搀漀渀 眀愀猀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀Ⰰ ഊ>the Lord Mayor was elected from a council of aldermen made up the heads of the ਀㸀洀漀爀攀 瀀漀眀攀爀昀甀氀 最甀椀氀搀猀Ⰰ 洀漀猀琀 渀漀琀愀戀氀礀 琀栀攀 䴀攀爀挀攀爀猀Ⰰ 䜀爀漀挀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䜀漀氀搀猀洀椀琀栀猀Ⰰ 眀栀漀Ⰰ ഊ>if memory serves, provided the majority of the recorded Mayors throughout the ਀㸀瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 䤀渀 琀栀攀 匀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀 琀栀攀 䴀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀 䄀搀瘀攀渀琀甀爀攀爀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀爀漀昀椀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 ഊ>expanding Levantine, Baltic and New World markets, began to become more ਀㸀挀漀洀洀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀ऀ吀栀愀渀欀猀⸀ 䤀 欀渀攀眀 渀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 昀漀爀洀攀爀氀礀Ⰰ 椀琀 戀攀椀渀最 漀甀琀猀椀搀攀 洀礀 愀爀攀愀 漀昀ഊexperience (thus far). Could I assume German burghers were elected similarly? ਀ഊ As for the Italian city-states, despite their public affinity for the ਀㸀刀攀瀀甀戀氀椀挀愀渀 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀 漀昀 刀漀洀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 甀猀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀愀琀攀 琀攀爀洀 䌀椀瘀椀琀愀猀 椀渀 ഊ>reference to their city, the ruling families were as strong as any monarchy. ਀ഊ Depends. There were some outright dynasties (the D'Estes, Sforzas, ਀欀椀渀最猀 漀昀 一愀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 䴀漀渀琀攀昀攀氀琀爀漀猀 漀昀 唀爀戀椀渀漀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 琀栀攀 倀愀瀀愀挀礀 猀瀀爀椀渀最ഊ to mind), but there were also *republics*. In Venice, for instance, the city ਀眀愀猀 爀甀氀攀搀 戀礀 挀漀甀渀挀椀氀猀 搀爀愀眀渀 昀爀漀洀 愀 瀀漀漀氀 漀昀 漀氀椀最愀爀挀栀猀 漀昀 攀猀琀愀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 最攀渀攀愀漀氀漀最礀⸀ഊThe pool of families had been closed in the early 13th century, and was ਀洀愀椀渀琀愀椀渀攀搀 椀渀 愀 ∀䜀漀氀搀攀渀 䈀漀漀欀⸀∀ 䤀渀 䘀氀漀爀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 匀椀攀渀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀ഊhad been a *conscious effort* to insure civil peace and harmony by ejecting ਀漀爀 瀀攀渀愀氀椀稀椀渀最 ∀洀愀最渀愀琀攀猀∀ ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 渀漀戀氀攀猀⤀⸀ 倀攀爀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 攀瘀攀渀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 氀椀渀攀愀最攀 眀攀爀攀ഊdesignated "magnates" for such crimes as brawling or robbery, and they and ਀琀栀攀椀爀 昀愀洀椀氀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 瀀攀渀愀氀琀椀攀猀⸀ഊ In Florence, the city council (signoria) and the various offices ਀⠀氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 最漀渀昀漀氀攀爀攀Ⰰ 漀爀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀ⴀ戀攀愀爀攀爀⤀ 眀攀爀攀 搀攀琀攀爀洀椀渀攀搀 戀礀 氀漀琀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 瀀漀漀氀ഊof eligible property-owners. The chief magistrate, or podesta, ("power") was ਀愀渀 愀瀀瀀漀椀渀琀攀搀 漀昀昀椀挀椀愀氀 眀栀漀 眀愀猀 猀愀氀愀爀椀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀漀瘀攀爀Ⰰ ⨀挀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 戀攀 昀爀漀洀ഊFlorence* (thereby insuring his impartiality). Furthermore, the podesta served ਀愀 琀攀爀洀 漀昀 漀昀昀椀挀攀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 攀瘀攀渀 瀀爀漀昀攀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀 瀀漀搀攀猀琀愀 眀栀漀 琀爀愀瘀攀氀氀攀搀 昀爀漀洀ഊcity to city, as many places had the same or a similar system. ਀ऀ吀栀攀猀攀 猀礀猀琀攀洀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 漀氀椀最愀爀挀栀椀攀猀 琀漀 愀渀 攀砀琀攀渀琀⸀ 䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 愀昀琀攀爀ഊCosimo I D'Medici began to run things in Florence from behind the scenes in ਀琀栀攀 ㄀㐀㈀　✀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 瀀爀攀琀攀渀猀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀挀栀椀渀攀爀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀攀瀀甀戀氀椀挀 眀愀猀 洀愀椀渀琀愀椀渀攀搀⸀ 吀栀攀ഊMedici maintained power by their network of clients and by such things as ਀氀漀愀渀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 挀椀琀礀Ⰰ 瀀爀漀瀀愀最愀渀搀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 攀瘀攀渀 猀琀甀昀昀椀渀最 戀愀氀氀漀琀 戀漀砀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀愀琀ഊthe signoria still had power meant that Cosimo himself was banished from ਀琀栀攀 挀椀琀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀㌀　✀猀 ⠀甀渀琀椀氀 栀椀猀 昀爀椀攀渀搀猀 最漀琀 椀渀琀漀 瀀漀眀攀爀 愀最愀椀渀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀氀猀漀ഊled to Lorenzo il Magnifico's son Piero the Unlucky being literally shut out ਀愀昀琀攀爀 栀椀猀 爀攀琀甀爀渀 昀爀漀洀 甀渀猀甀挀挀攀猀猀昀甀氀 渀攀最漀琀椀愀琀椀漀渀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 愀搀瘀愀渀挀椀渀最 䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀ഊVIII in 1494. In this last case, the power vacuum was then filled by the ਀䐀漀洀椀渀椀挀愀渀Ⰰ 匀愀瘀漀渀愀爀漀氀愀Ⰰ 愀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 搀攀洀漀最漀最甀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀挀椀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 眀攀爀攀 漀甀琀ഊof favor until 1512 or so, when, in one swoop, Leo X became Pope and Lorenzo ਀䤀䤀 䐀✀䴀攀搀椀挀椀 眀愀猀 爀攀猀琀漀爀攀搀 琀漀 瀀漀眀攀爀⸀ 䈀甀琀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 猀琀漀爀礀⸀ 䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 椀渀琀攀爀猀琀椀渀最ഊanecdote is the Piazzi Conspiracy of 1478, which gives an intersting insight ਀琀漀 漀瀀瀀漀猀椀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀挀椀 爀攀最椀洀攀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 搀攀愀氀琀 眀椀琀栀 栀愀爀猀栀氀礀⤀⸀ഊ ਀㸀刀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀攀搀 琀爀甀氀礀 刀漀洀愀渀 戀礀 ഊ>Republican Romans, ਀ഊ Yes-- but by the time of the Empire, they were quite Romanized. Also, ਀嘀攀爀最椀氀 眀愀猀 昀爀漀洀 甀瀀 琀栀攀爀攀⸀ ⴀⴀ㸀ഊHell, a couple of Emperors, including the venerated Trajan were from Spain! ਀⠀䄀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 吀爀愀樀愀渀 眀愀猀⤀⸀ 䰀漀漀欀 愀琀 愀爀挀栀愀攀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 椀渀 猀甀挀栀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀ഊas Pompey for some insights into the Romanization of Latin towns. Further, ਀椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀 洀椀渀搀猀Ⰰ 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 挀椀琀礀ⴀ猀琀愀琀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀攀爀爀椀琀漀爀椀攀猀 栀愀瘀攀 愀氀眀愀礀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀琀椀氀氀Ⰰഊconsidered themselves first and foremost citizens of a *city*, like Milan or ਀刀漀洀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 愀 爀攀最椀漀渀Ⰰ 氀椀欀攀 吀甀猀挀愀渀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ⨀琀栀攀渀⨀ 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀⸀ഊ ਀ 戀甀琀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 愀猀 䜀愀氀氀椀挀 椀渀琀攀爀氀漀瀀攀爀猀 漀渀 昀漀爀洀攀爀氀礀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 ⠀渀漀琀 ഊ>Roman) soil. Medieval Northern Italians were not even Gauls, but decendants ਀㸀漀昀 琀栀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀椀挀 䰀漀洀戀愀爀搀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀琀爀漀渀最 琀爀愀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 欀椀渀最猀栀椀瀀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 ഊ>may have been Roman Colonias, but without checking closely, my memory tends to ਀㸀氀攀愀搀 洀攀 琀漀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀⸀ഊ ਀ऀ䌀漀氀漀渀椀愀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀氀氀 漀瘀攀爀⸀ 䄀渀搀 琀栀攀 䰀漀洀戀愀爀搀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀猀猀椀洀椀氀愀琀攀搀 昀漀爀 愀 瘀攀爀礀ഊgreat part. Besides, remember Charlemagne? The invaders had a great desire to ਀愀猀猀椀洀椀氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 椀洀椀琀愀琀攀 刀漀洀愀渀 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀ 䄀渀搀 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 䴀愀挀挀栀椀愀瘀攀氀椀 挀氀愀椀洀攀搀 ഊ>to only making observations of historical examples in the Prince, not ਀㸀椀渀瘀攀渀琀椀渀最 愀 渀攀眀 猀漀挀椀愀氀 漀爀搀攀爀⸀ 吀栀漀猀攀 眀椀琀栀 瀀漀眀攀爀Ⰰ 椀渀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 愀猀 ഊ>in the more feudal countryside, tended to remain in power. ਀ഊ I was speaking of citizen-armies, wasn't I? Or something... ਀ഊ>Martin Dragonet ਀ഊ --Tristan Clair de Lune ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㐀㨀㔀㜀㨀㐀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Jenne Heise ਀吀漀㨀 匀栀椀爀攀 漀昀 䔀椀猀攀渀琀愀氀 㰀攀椀猀攀渀琀愀氀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀㸀Ⰰ 猀挀愀ⴀ攀愀猀琀 愀琀 椀渀搀爀愀⸀挀漀洀Ⰰഊ SCA Arts list ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 唀爀戀愀渀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 眀攀戀 猀椀琀攀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 爀攀瘀椀攀眀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 一攀琀 匀挀漀甀琀 刀攀瀀漀爀琀㨀ഊ ਀䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 唀爀戀愀渀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀ഊhttp://www.trytel.com/~tristan/towns/towns.html ਀ഊA labor of love for its author, Stephen Alsford (Special Projects Officer ਀愀琀 琀栀攀 䌀愀渀愀搀椀愀渀 䴀甀猀攀甀洀 漀昀 䌀椀瘀椀氀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀⤀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 猀椀琀攀 瀀爀漀洀椀猀攀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀ഊreliable source for well written and researched articles on Medieval ਀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 唀爀戀愀渀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀⸀ 䌀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀椀琀攀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀猀 挀漀渀挀椀猀攀 挀愀瀀猀甀氀攀ഊhistories of six English towns: Norwich, King's Lynn, Great Yarmouth, ਀䤀瀀猀眀椀挀栀Ⰰ 䌀漀氀挀栀攀猀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䴀愀氀搀漀渀⸀ 䔀愀挀栀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 挀漀瘀攀爀猀 欀攀礀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 猀甀挀栀 愀猀ഊOrigins and early growth, Development of local government, Buildings and ਀昀漀爀琀椀昀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䔀挀漀渀漀洀礀⸀ 䄀氀猀昀漀爀搀 栀愀猀 愀氀猀漀 最攀渀攀爀漀甀猀氀礀 瀀氀愀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 昀甀氀氀ഊtext of his Master of Philosophy thesis on the site, an engaging study of ਀漀昀昀椀挀攀ⴀ栀漀氀搀椀渀最 椀渀 猀椀砀 䔀愀猀琀 䄀渀最氀椀愀渀 戀漀爀漀甀最栀猀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 ㄀㈀㜀㈀ⴀ㄀㐀㘀　⸀ 䄀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀ഊresources at the site include a glossary and a large collection of related ਀氀椀渀欀猀⸀ 䄀氀猀昀漀爀搀 瀀氀愀渀猀 琀漀 愀搀搀 洀愀瀀猀Ⰰ 瀀栀漀琀漀猀Ⰰ 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀愀氀ഊcapsule histories in the future. [MD] ਀ഊJadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus), mka Jennifer Heise ਀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:33:24 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀愀洀攀猀 倀爀攀猀挀漀琀琀 㰀瀀爀攀猀挀漀琀樀 愀琀 琀攀氀甀猀瀀氀愀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rotten meat and spices... ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀Ⰰഊ ਀䄀琀 ㄀㠀㨀㄀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ㈀　　㔀ⴀ　㐀ⴀ㄀㄀Ⰰ 倀栀氀椀瀀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> another was a discussion of how many critters were ਀㸀  甀猀攀搀 椀渀 愀 最椀瘀攀渀 琀漀眀渀ⴀ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 挀椀琀攀 眀愀猀 昀爀漀洀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀ഊ> from Italy. ਀ഊThere's a lot of information about how many critters were needed ਀眀攀攀欀氀礀 椀渀 倀愀爀椀猀 ⠀愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㌀㤀㔀⤀ 椀渀 䴀攀渀愀最椀攀爀 ⠀琀栀攀 倀漀眀攀爀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰഊpage 221). ਀ഊThorvald ਀ഊ ਀䔀搀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀欀 匀⸀ 䠀愀爀爀椀猀ऀ挀椀琀椀攀猀ⴀ洀猀最ऀ倀愀最攀 㘀 漀昀 㘀ഊ ਊ