sign-lang-msg - 7/31/01 Sign language in the SCA and in period NOTE: See also the files: disabilities-msg, SCA-SL-art, eyeglasses-msg, cryptography-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: 23 May 92 From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations Sign Language Cadwan asks about period sign languages. Medieval muslims had a system of hand signs for numbers. I know about it because Taybugha, in his 14th c. book on archery, uses them in explaining various hand positions for releasing the arrow. Also, in the frame story of the 1001 nights, the two princes are up in a tree, there is a sleeping Djinn down below, and they are communicating by signals with the beautiful lady standing next to him. It is not entirely clear whether the signals are a language, or just pointing and making faces. Cariadoc/David From: garvey at poohbear.cig.mot.com (Heather L. Garvey) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Some Random Pennsic Thoughts Date: 29 Aug 1994 15:16:08 GMT Organization: Cellular Infrastructure Group, Motorola Jim Boniface <Neknight at indirect.com> wrote: >garvey at poohbear.cig.mot.com (Heather L. Garvey) says: >> And hopefully, one day I'll be good enough to interpret at Court >>someday, thanks to Cedar's wonderful class on SCA-Specific sign language. > > Mi'lady, Could I trouble you to go in a little more detail (in email if >you wish, or in public) on the SCA-Specific sign language? I've never >heard of anything like this (Assuming it's not the COMPLETE obvious >meaning(sign for hold etc)) and I'm quite intrested! Most were signs for the various Kingdoms, based on their heraldry, signs for the various ranks, for various orders, for 'marshal' 'laurel' etc. We had a stirring discussion about the different signs for 'herald' and possibly differentiating between field and 'book' heralds. We also got a funny story about the sign for 'viscount'. The sign for viscount is a V at the forehead, moving to a C at the temple (V-C, outlining a tinhat. :)). Unfortunately, if you get your V pointing the wrong way (out instead of left), you sign "stupid count"! :-) If you like, I can type in the handout she gave us and send it to you, though it will have the usual limitations of text when learning new signs... -- Heather Garvey Phone: (708) 632-3790 Motorola Cellular, ITS, Rm 2231 E-mail: garvey at cig.mot.com From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Deaf Fighters (was Re: Damn Skaters) Date: 8 Sep 95 22:00:11 GMT Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208 > [Hal posting from Dorothy's account....] > Fighters that can't hear "Hold!" have rather more serious > problems than rollerbladers. Indeed, one is tempted to inquire > if they are authorized and, if so, why? > --Hal Ravn > (Hal Heydt) *Ahem!* I'm sorry, Hal, but you've just pushed one of my buttons. My SCA "daughter" (mundanely not related) is deaf and she gets this nonsense told to her all the time. This is identical to the argument that the deaf shouldn't drive because they can't hear an ambulance siren. WRONG! The deaf have better driving records than the speaking (non-deaf). They're aware of their disability and are more alert because of it. Do you _always_ hear the first yelled "Hold!" by a marshal _every_ time? Or do you start looking around for a marshall when everyone around you has stopped fighting and dropped to one knee without being struck? I'm a warrented Marshal at Large in AEthelmearc, and any fighter who's deaf, blind, one-legged, wheelchaired or what have you is welcome in my list. I'm NOT going to tell someone they can't play our game just because it's a little harder for them to play. BTW, for all Marshalls: The ASL (American Sign Language) sign for "Hold!" is to karate-chop your right hand into your upraised left palm. - Dagonell SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr Habitat : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony Internet : salley at cs.canisius.edu (Please use this, reply may not work.) USnail-net : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029 Subject: Atlantia-specific ASL (long!) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:02:11 EST From: SCAVard at aol.com To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org In response to my recent post regarding American Sign Language (ASL) interpretation within SCA settings, I received several private messages from folks looking for more information. As a form of disclaimer, let me make it clear that I am not an expert on the subject, as I have been looking myself for this information for some time. I am merely someone with a good, practical working knowledge of ASL who has wanted to learn how to sign within the SCA for some time, but have had little luck (until now) finding this information. In the interests of getting people together with the information they're seeking, I am happy to share publically what I've learned. Please do not confuse the messenger with the message, for I am merely relaying what I have uncovered through my research. The experts on the subject are those who are actively interpreting within SCA settings, I am passing along what information they have made available through various sources. The SCA has its own unique vocabulary, one which contains words that are not encountered on an everyday basis. How many times have you encountered the words "Atlantia" or "Windmaster's Hill" or "Chirurgeon" in a setting OTHER than the SCA? Further, some words which are used quite frequently in the SCA have a different meaning than it would in the rest of the world. For example, the word "King" is a concept that translates well from the mundane world into an SCA setting, because it has the same meaning in both. But the word "Count" does not. We use it as a title denoting rank, but the mundane world uses this word primarily as a verb, as in "Don't count your chickens before they've hatched." One of the biggest hurdles that an interpreter has to overcome when settling into an SCA setting is the learning of the vocabulary. It's not a matter of knowing "how" to sign, but more a matter of knowing "what" to sign. For instance, how does one interpret "That Count is from Dun Carraig"? It's tough, and unless you know the SCA-specific signs for the nouns Count and Dun Carraig, you're forced to resort to fingerspelling. Anyway, enough of the theory, on to the practice! Before I begin, let me toss ONE LAST disclaimer into the pile. The following is not intended to teach anyone how to sign. It is EXTREMELY difficult to explain in words how to sign, and like any language, ASL is one which can really only be learned by being around others who use the language. The following assumes that the reader has at least a working knowledge of ASL, and will hopefully show them how to adapt the language they already know to convey concepts that are SCA-specific. My thanks to Lady Ariane Desire'e Des Cedres (aka Lady Cedar) for compiling this information, to Lord Stefan li Rous for capturing this in his Florilegium, and to Lord Gregory Blount for archiving Stefan's Florilegium on his website. -------------- NOTE : All ASL signs are preceded by an asterisk (*), the phrase "Manual Alphabet Letter" is shortened "MAL" THE VOCABULARY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROYALTY *king MAL "K" from non-dominant shoulder to dominant hip. (Be sure that the palm orientation is correct -- if not, this can easily be confused with the sign for "*PRINCE") *queen MAL "Q" moving from non-dominant shoulder to dominant hip. *prince MAL "P" moving from non-dominant shoulder to dominant hip. (Be sure that the palm orientation is correct -- if not, this can easily be confused with the sign for "*KING") *princess MAL "P" moving from non-dominant shoulder to dominant shoulder to dominant hip. duke MAL "W" at dominant temple (The closest we could come to the STRAWBERRY LEAVES of a ducal coronet of rank) duchess MAL "W" at dominant temple + "*GIRL" + "*FORMAL,POLITE,FANCY" count MAL "C" moving from center of forehead to dominant temple. countess MAL "C" moving from center of forehead to dominant temple + "*GIRL"+ "*FORMAL,POLITE,FANCY" viscount MAL "V" at center of forehead moving to dominant temple and changing to MAL "C" (Be VERY CAREFUL with the palm orientation on the "V" so as not to sign "*STUPID" -- palm should be facing to the NON-DOMINANT side) viscountess MAL "V" at center of forehead moving to dominant temple and changing to MAL "C" (Be VERY CAREFUL with the palm orientation on the "V" so as not to sign "*STUPID" -- palm should be facing to the NON-DOMINANT side) + "*GIRL" + "*FORMAL,POLITE,FANCY" baron Closed "X" handshape moving from center of the forehead to dominant side, denoting three of the pearls in the Baronial coronet baroness Closed "X" handshape moving from center of the forehead to dominant side, denoting three of the pearls in the Baronial coronet + "*GIRL" + "*FORMAL,POLITE,FANCY" [NOTE : If it is necessary to differentiate between a "LANDED" and a "COURT" baron/baroness you can do so by adding "*GOLD" or "*SILVER" after signing "BARON/ESS". Note, however, that I learned this practice from my time in the Middle Kingdom, where the color or the coronet denoted the type of Baron. This is NOT a universal practice. -Vard] majesty "M" handshape moving up -- the sign for "*HIGH" excellency "E" handshape moving up -- the sign for "*HIGH" highness "H" handshape moving up -- the sign for "*HIGH" royal MAL "R" moving from non-dominant shoulder to dominant hip PEERAGE *peer Sign for "*EQUAL" master/mistress Sign for equal made into an intialized sign using the MAL "M" on each hand (all masters/mistresses of whatever flavor are peers) laurel MAL "L" on each hand placed on chest where the peerage medallion would rest, showing the shape of the laurel wreath. apprentice Sign for "*HELPER" pelican duck-bill (handshape like sign for "*NO") then same handshape moving to pierce the chest (the symbol of the order, the pelican vulning itself) protege Sign for "*STUDENT" knight MAL "K" at waist moving from center to dominant side, drawing the belt which is the symbol of the order. squire MAL "S" in the same movement as the sign for "KNIGHT" master/mistress of arms MAL "M" at non-dominant shoulder, moving to dominant of arms hip where it becomes MAL "A", for the baldric that is the symbol of the order. rose Sign for "*FLOWER" OFFICERS seneschal "*KEY" + "*PERSON" indicator autocrat "*CONTROL" + "*PERSON" indicator {Closed "X" handshape on both hands, palms facing each other. Move alternately foreward and backward -- as in pulling strings} chronicler "*WRITE" + "*PERSON" indicator chatelaine/castellan "*WELCOME" + "*PERSON" indicator chiurgeon Using a "C" handshape, make the sign for "*HOSPITAL" [I have also seen "*DOCTOR" using an initialized "C" handshape. I do not know which is more prevalent. -Vard] exchequer "*COUNT" + "*PERSON" indicator herald Sign for "LECTURE" done with an "H" handshape. marshall Mime pulling a sword then with "one' handshapes, cross fingers in saltire (the heraldry denoting marshalls) archery marshall non-dominant hand in "one" handshape, dominant hand, MAL "M", miming pulling back a bow from the non-dominant handshape. minister of arts "*TEACHER" initialized with the MAL "M" + "*ART" minister of sciences "*TEACHER" initialized with the MAL "M" + "*SCIENCE" minister of arts and sciences "*TEACHER" initialized with the MAL "M" + "*ART" + "*SCIENCE" OTHER COMMON SIGNS court Sign for "*CELEBRATE" + Sign for "*MEETING" "OYEZ" "*ATTENTION" *kingdom "*KING" +"*AREA" barony baron + "*AREA" Award of Arms "*GIFT" + display with "A" handshape KINGDOMS Atlantia MAL "A" at mouth + "*SEA, OCEAN" Atenveldt "*SUN" + "*FACE" An Tir "*LION" + mime the claw outwards Ansteorra "*SUN" starting from waist up +"*STAR" Caid Simultaneously with both hands outline the shape of crescents in the air about eye height Calontir "*CROSS" + "*FANCY, DECORATED" {the cross with the *stuff*} Drachenwald Mime sign for "firebreath" + "*WOODS" Outlands "*DEER" + sign for animal jumping outward East MAL "E" moved towards right West MAL "W" moved towards left Middle Non-dominant hand, palm upwards. Dominant hand above this, palm facing body, "B" handshape. Dominant hand moves in small circle and lowers tostrike center of non-dom. palm with fingertips Meridies MAL "M" + 3 "*STARS" Trimaris "*THREE" + "SEA, OCEAN" Aethelmearc Interlaced fingers (for the escarbuncle) + "*ROLLING" Ealdermere "*FLOWER" +"*WOLF" SIGNS FOR SOME ATLANTIAN GROUPS (taken from a different handout of Lady Cedar's. In her own words, "The basic philosophy behind the invention of SCA- specific signs to date is this: if it exists in the language, don't mess with it_!!!! If it does not exist in the language, the first place to look for an idea to invent a sign is the heraldry. If it does not immediately lend itself to either of these techniques, try to brainstorm what the term means and work from there.") Storvik "*SHIP" bouncing away toward viewer Ponte Alto "*BRIDGE" initialized with the MAL "P" Caer Mear "*TOWER" initialized with the MAL "C" + "SINK" Sacred Stone "*ROCK" + "*HOLY" Marinus "*BOAT" initialized with the MAL "M" Nottinghill Coill "*KNOT" Windmaster's Hill "*HILL" + "*WIND" Hidden Mountain "*MOUNTAIN" + "*DARK" Black Diamond "*BLACK" + "JEWEL" (using the MAL "9" handshape for Jewel) VARD'S SIGNS FOR OTHER ATLANTIAN GROUPS (View these with skepticism, for they might conflict with signs that already exist for them. Most of these are based primarily on the group's heraldry, but there are one or two exceptions. If you learn of a sign for these groups, use it and not my inventions below): Spiaggia Levantina "*PURPLE" + "*EAGLE" Bright Hills "*HILL" + "*GLITTER" Dun Carraig "*CROSS" initialized with the MAL "D" changing to a MAL "C" (I *hate* initializing this, but the only other viable alternative would likely be confused with the American Red Cross) Lochmere "*WATER" + "CRAB" (I sign "*NO" twice simultaneously with both hands for "CRAB") Highland Foorde "*MOUNTAIN" + "*THROUGH" Stierbach "*RED" + "*COW" Isenfir "*BLACK" + mime pulling a sword There are, of course, many more groups, but I've not encountered them yet while trying to sign. I welcome any inputs or corrections to this COMPLETELY UNOFFICIAL list. I will attempt to pull all of this information together into a pamphlet or web site, and will of course make it available for any who wish to use it. My apologies to the members of the Merry Rose who had absolutely no interest in this subject, but I believed posting it to the list was the most expedient method for getting this information out to the public. // VARD // (PS - My name-sign is an MAL "V" tapped twice against the dominant temple) Lord Edvard Gayer, Chronicler Barony of Dun Carraig, Atlantia Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 02:32:34 MST From: "Morgan Cain" <morgancain at earthlink.net> Subject: ANST - ASL Online To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org> For those who cannot make the meeting in Steppes on the 30th (like me), some resources: http://dww.deafworldweb.org/asl/ - Online dictionary, with video, and not just USA/English (what, you didn't know that sign language differs all over the world?) ASL Online website: http://www.angelfire.com/ia/andycat/asl.html Another one, primiarly french, is http://signserver.univ-lyon2.fr/ and it links to an article on ASL at http://www.deaflibrary.org/asl.html as well as having a more general dictionary http://www.signlanguagevideos.com/ - this site offers videos with lessons; your local library may have a set (it's always worth checking) Fingerspelling: http://www.where.com/scott.net/asl/ Also, there are SCA-specific signs developed by the guild that signs at Pennsic, where they teach classes. Most major courts at Pennsic are now realtime translated by this guild. ---= Morgan, slow signer <the end> edited by Mark S. Harris sign-lang-msg