eyeglasses-msg - 1/17/08
Period eyewear. Making replicas.
NOTE: See also the files: 15C-Eyeglsses-art, disabilities-msg, p-medicine-msg, glasswork-msg, SCA-SL-art, sign-lang-msg.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: dryfoo at athena.mit.EDU
Date: 19 Sep 91 14:29:13 GMT
} From: Ann Nielsen <adn at mayo.edu>
} ...Lady NicMaoilan writes about eyeglasses in the SCA, and that she has
} never seen an attempt at period eyeglasses. Ah, but I have!
}
} A gentle in our area, Mistress Margaret of Shaftesbury, owns a pair, which
} her dear lord, Master Einar, made for her.... in a period manner. The
} frames are of wood, round in shape and quite thick, and nestled within are
} round lenses. The glasses rest on the bridge of her nose, and are held on
} by two loops of ribbon that hook totally around her ears....
Are wooden frames "more period" -- or more common in period -- than
metal ones?
(Here's some material I recently found on eyeglasses in Phil Morrison's
*The Ring of Truth* I haven't got the source here, so I'm relying on
memory for the indicated details.)
The earliest picture of someone wearing spectacles that I know about is
a painting on the wall of a monastery in Italy (Treviso, I think) --
near Venice, of course, and the legendary Venetian glassworkers.
The portrait clearly shows a scholarly-looking fellow (the Abbot?) with
a pair of small round-lensed spectacles, with what certainly appear to
be wire frames. They are perched on his nose, and hooked round his ears
in the modern way. The date of the painting is, I believe, c. 1340 (but
I may have that a century too early).
(By the way, our earliest evidence for eyeglasses at all is the record
of sermon given in 1305, which says, essentially, "It is not quite 20
years since the invention of those spectacles which enable those elderly
with weakened eyesight to continue reading and writing.")
I can dig up more, if anyone wants. Personally, I'd like to know if
anyone on the Rialto has studied or worked on period lens grinding.
-- Algernon Hartesmond (O.Troub.-Ret.)
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From: sari at csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sari Ellen Stiles)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: eyeglasses in period
Date: 1 Sep 1993 18:10:27 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Eyeglasses are indeed period. Even I belive pre SCA period in ASIA,
appearing in Europe in the late part of our period. There is a nice pamplet
of Complete Anachronist that includes How-to for period eyeglasses.
In an Art History course I took this summer, I saw a painting dated
around 1435 (? I hope I am recalling correctly!) a Maddona and child with an
attendant Cardinal holding a book and some dark rimmed (horn? metal?)
pince-nez type eyeglasses. That would be a primary resource right ???
take care,
Cieran
From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: eyeglasses
Date: 9 Sep 1993 13:40:20 -0400
|> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that eyeglasses
|> WERE period. They may not have been common, but unless I'm completely
|> mis-remembering they were invented well before the 17th century.
Eyeglasses to correct farsightedness are period. Nicholas of Cusa is
one of the people usually credited with inventing them, although
magnifying lenses were known to the Arabs as far back as the 10th
century.
Tio dell'abaco
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shafer at rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: eyeglasses
Organization: NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards CA
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 18:28:54 GMT
On 9 Sep 1993 13:40:20 -0400, jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) said:
|> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that
|> eyeglasses WERE period. They may not have been common, but unless
|> I'm completely mis-remembering they were invented well before the
|> 17th century.
Jeff> Eyeglasses to correct farsightedness are period. Nicholas of
Jeff> Cusa is one of the people usually credited with inventing them,
Jeff> although magnifying lenses were known to the Arabs as far back
Jeff> as the 10th century.
I've just been reading "The Autobiography of Henry VIII" and the
author has Henry tell us that he's been forced to wear "40-year
spectacles" to read documents and he laments that he'll have to wear
50-yr and 60-yr glasses if he lives so long.
Obviously, this is a work of fiction, but the author did a _lot_ of
research; an excellent bibliography is included. I've got her book on
Mary, Queen of Scots, too and it's also excellent--a pity that Mary
was such a _foolish_ woman.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer at ferhino.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA
From: erm0740 at zeus.tamu.edu (MALDONADO, ERNESTO RICARDO)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re:eyeglasses
Date: 10 Sep 1993 16:04 CDT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
I was just reading my assignment for last Monday and came across an
interesting comment that I thought might apply to your conversation. I haven't
been paying too much attention to this thread, but I think the earliest date I
heard mentioned was early 16th c., so:
From Petrarch's "Letter to Posterity" (trans. and ed. by Mark Musa in The_
Italian_Renaissance_Reader),
"I had ... for many years sharp vision, which, however, unexpectedly
deserted me when I passed my sixtieth birthday, and forced me, reluctantly, to
resort to the use of glasses."
I unfortunately don't know when he wrote the later, but he turned 60 in
1364 and died in 1374. I don't know Italian so I can't say anything about the
translation (Although it's in the second paragraph if anyone cares to check.),
but if it is right that dates glasses back to the 14th c.
Just as another thought, he might be referring to a monocule or
lognette (sp?) as well, but at least some kind of corrective lens was available.
In Service,
Geoffrey Scrymger
From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: glasses
Date: 29 Aug 1994 11:59:46 -0400
About tolerating eyeglasses...
'course, eyeglasses are period. However, IMSC, they were of the type
to correct far-sightedness, what we might call reading glasses. IME,
SCAdians tend to be nearsighted, rather than farsighted, so from a
strict standpoint, most of our glasses wouldn't even be period, even
if the frames were.
(I had a "pseudo-set" of period glasses...one of my earpieces broke.
Remembering an illustration of what Elizabethan glasses looked like, I
tried to follow it with dismal success...fortunately it was only a
month before I could get new glasses)
Sunglasses are period. Sort of. Anyway, that's what I've read. What
you do is take regular glasses, paint linseed oil on them, and
bake'em. The linseed oil turns black; if you did everything
correctly, you'll still be able to see through the glasses after
you're done.
Unfortunately, Medievaloid is "in" in the fashion-world. This means
that you can get medieval-looking eyeglass frames, but they're
designer frames and cost accordingly (i.e., between 10 and 100 times
what they're actually worth). I know; I tried to get a pair but it
would have cost me over $100.
If there are opticians in the SCA, I'm sure there would be many people
_very_ interested in getting a medieval set of glasses.
William the Alchymist
From: Kelly.Coco at MVS.UDEL.EDU (12/13/94)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Glasses....
Hi Stefan,
Van Eyks "Annunciation" is a painting that shows a Cardinal I think who
is holding a pair of glasses. Van Eyk is reknown for his realist details
(early to mid 1400's) so the inclusion of glasses as well as the absence
of temples is signifigant. Quite a detailed painting too. I do like the
northern renn artwork so much more than the Italian as it is *much*
more secular in nature and hence valuable for my purposes! :-) I think
the date for the piece is 1430, but could easily be off by a decade or
so.
Vale,
Steiner
From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Spectacles (was SCA is NO
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 95 23:43:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
IM>Unfortunately, while Henry VIII is technically "period",
IM>he is not period for me. The earliest I can shove the
IM>documentation for spectacles to is c1285, and that's
IM>based on a reference in a sermon in 1305 that they've
IM>been around for 20 years. At best, it's still 160 years
la
IM>ter than I need for my current persona.
IM>*sigh*
Umberto Eco, who I have found reliable in his fiction for
everything but windows and functional herbology, maintains
(in the NOVEL <underlined> Name of the Rose) that pince-nez
metal glasses, (as opposed to the ones on Henry VIII's
grotesque helm and featured in Complete Anachronist I) were
becoming available in the mid 1300s.
BUT: a problem - the glasses were reading glasses for the
far-sighted. Several people in society maintain that glasses
for the nearsighted were a later development. Then again, no
one is likely to check whether your lenses are double-convex
or plano- or double-concave. (I don't buy that for one
reason. The general method of grinding a convex lense leaves
you with a concave lense - look at any manual on telescope
making for further details on how to grind your own)
The killer comes for photophobes like me - I've yet to find
a reference to period sunglasses, and I usually take a
Corning Ultra-Grey 10.
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Spectacles
Date: 30 Jun 1995 13:41:23 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
<Aleksandr the Traveller <david.razler at compudata.com>>
IM>Unfortunately, while Henry VIII is technically "period",
IM>he is not period for me. The earliest I can shove the
IM>documentation for spectacles to is c1285, and that's
IM>based on a reference in a sermon in 1305 that they've
IM>been around for 20 years. At best, it's still 160 years
IM>later than I need for my current persona.
>Umberto Eco, who I have found reliable in his fiction for
>everything but windows and functional herbology, maintains
>(in the NOVEL <underlined> Name of the Rose) that pince-nez
>metal glasses, (as opposed to the ones on Henry VIII's
>grotesque helm and featured in Complete Anachronist I) were
>becoming available in the mid 1300s.
Umberto Eco's Pince-nez ("pinched nose") glasses are quite similar
to Henry VIII's helm (although I haven't seen the spectacles in the
CA I).
Essentially, we are talking about a pair of round lenses on a
hinged section. This hinged bit may be a small arc, or a longish
handle. A 14th C. pair, similar in appearance to those used in the
movie "Name of the Rose", but made from bone were excavated from
the Trig Lane excavations in London. [there are at least 2
articles on this topic by Michael Rhodes, one in _London
Archaeologist_ 4 (1980), 23-5; and the other in _Antiquaries
Journal_ 62 (1982), 57-73. Both are discussed in Arthur McGregor's
_Bone, Antler, Ivory and Horn_]
In my brand new copy of _Ancient Inventions_ by Peter James and
Nick Thorpe there is a discussion on Spectacles (pp.289-295) [using
as IT's major source, E. Rosen., "Invention of Eyeglasses,"
_Journal of the History of Medicine_ 11 (Jan 1956), pp.13-46;
(April 1956), pp 183-218), which I have not, as yet, seen].
It describes (as well as shows) a fresco by Tommaso di Modena,
painted in 1352 showing a pair of spectacles with the curved
hinge/nose-piece. There is also a mention of a sermon by a
Dominican Friar Giordano da Rivalto deleivered in 1305, reporting
that 20 years before, a man the good friar had actually met, had
invented the spectacles. Unfortunately, this is an area wherein a
lot of hoaxes have been perpetrated (and to be honest, since this
is, at best, a fourth-hand source, I will take it as merely an
interesting hypothesis until I can backtrack the documentation).
However, as the current version of my persona is convinced that
this is 1115, such an invention in 1285 seems a trifle "high tech".
>BUT: a problem - the glasses were reading glasses for the
>far-sighted. Several people in society maintain that glasses
>for the nearsighted were a later development....[deletia]....
OTOH, This same nifty new tome has a section on Magnifying lenses
(pp.157-161), in which it repeats the old from Pliny about Nero's
_smaragdus_, which is reputed to be "Concave in shape, so that it
concentrates the vision". Ie., a lens for us myopics.
>The killer comes for photophobes like me - I've yet to find
>a reference to period sunglasses, and I usually take a
>Corning Ultra-Grey 10.
I can relate to that. However, should Nero's smaragdus actually
have been an emerald...
Personally, however, I try to stick with a broad brimmed hat
whenever I can, and keeping my eyes closed a lot.
"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia" University of Northkeep
-- St. Dunstan Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)
From: david.razler at compudata.com (DAVID RAZLER)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Spectacles
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 22:23:00 -0400
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245
IM><Aleksandr the Traveller <david.razler at compudata.com>>
IM>IM>Unfortunately, while Henry VIII is technically "period",
IM>IM>he is not period for me. The earliest I can shove the
IM>IM>documentation for spectacles to is c1285, and that's
IM>IM>based on a reference in a sermon in 1305 that they've
IM>IM>been around for 20 years. At best, it's still 160 years
IM>IM>later than I need for my current persona.
IM>>Umberto Eco, who I have found reliable in his fiction for
IM>>everything but windows and functional herbology, maintains
IM>>(in the NOVEL <underlined> Name of the Rose) that pince-nez
IM>>metal glasses, (as opposed to the ones on Henry VIII's
IM>>grotesque helm and featured in Complete Anachronist I) were
IM>>becoming available in the mid 1300s.
IM>Umberto Eco's Pince-nez ("pinched nose") glasses are quite similar
IM>to Henry VIII's helm (although I haven't seen the spectacles in the
IM>CA I).
IM>Essentially, we are talking about a pair of round lenses on a
IM>hinged section. This hinged bit may be a small arc, or a longish
IM>handle.
Razler/Aleksandr here: No, we aren't. King Harry's glasses and the kinds
outlined in CA 1 are metallic Eco's are "almonds" of glass "mounted in a
metal fork."
IM>>BUT: a problem - the glasses were reading glasses for the
IM>>far-sighted. Several people in society maintain that glasses
IM>>for the nearsighted were a later development....[deletia]....
IM>OTOH, This same nifty new tome has a section on Magnifying lenses
IM>(pp.157-161), in which it repeats the old from Pliny about Nero's
IM>_smaragdus_, which is reputed to be "Concave in shape, so that it
IM>concentrates the vision". Ie., a lens for us myopics.
Thank You For the Cite!
IM>>The killer comes for photophobes like me - I've yet to find
IM>>a reference to period sunglasses, and I usually take a
IM>>Corning Ultra-Grey 10.
IM>I can relate to that. However, should Nero's smaragdus actually
IM>have been an emerald...
Anyone with a source of cheap, 3" diameter, optically excellent
emeralds, please contact.....
Aleksandr the Traveller
[david.razler at compudata.com]
From: jcole at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (cole joan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spectacles
Date: 3 Jul 1995 13:36:18 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>Umberto Eco's Pince-nez ("pinched nose") glasses are quite similar
>to Henry VIII's helm (although I haven't seen the spectacles in the
>CA I).
>
>Essentially, we are talking about a pair of round lenses on a
>hinged section. This hinged bit may be a small arc, or a longish
>handle. A 14th C. pair, similar in appearance to those used in the
>movie "Name of the Rose", but made from bone were excavated from
>the Trig Lane excavations in London.
In the latest Jas. Townsend & Son catalog, they are offering reproduction
"15th Century Spectacle Frames" in the style described. The price is $60
(you'll have to take it to your optometrist and get lenses made as well)
Their address is Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc.
133 North First Street
P.O. Box 415
Pierceton, IN 46562
They also have a web page at http://www.jastown.com/townsend/
I am not affiliated with these folks in any way, but I have ordered things
from them and received good service in the past.