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disabilities-msg - 9/7/09

 

Disabilities in the SCA and period, hiding wheelchairs, SCA sign language.

 

NOTE: See also the files: SCA-SL-art, eyeglasses-msg, sign-lang-msg, 15C-Eyeglsses-art, carts-msg, Dog-Carts-art, SCA-transport-msg, sedan-chairs-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)

Subject: Re: Period wheelchairs

Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 12:28:55 GMT

 

I remember that Graf Sir Shadan, sometime Marshall of the Society, spent one Pennsic being wheeled around in a wheelbarrow...

--

Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: Re: Period Wheelchairs! How?

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 17:41:47 GMT

 

        A couple of years ago Mistress Gwynnis Mooncat disguised her PMV

as a yak, by hanging lots and lots of yarn, bells and other Mongolian

danglies from it.  

        I personally see no particular need for period looking

wheelchairs (esp. since a lot of period furniture tended to be bulky).

If we can selectively ignore glasses, orthodontia and othopedic braces,

we can learn to selectively ignore wheelchairs and other such devices.

To do otherwise sounds to me like a form of prejudice because most foot

mobile folks aren't familiar with people in wheelchairs.

 

        Lothar \|/

              0

 

 

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Wheelchairs! How?

Date: 27 Aug 1993 18:42:15 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

thomas wrentmore barnes <tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:

>      A couple of years ago Mistress Gwynnis Mooncat disguised her PMV

>as a yak, by hanging lots and lots of yarn, bells and other Mongolian

>danglies from it.  

>      I personally see no particular need for period looking

>wheelchairs ....

>If we can selectively ignore glasses, orthodontia and othopedic braces,

>we can learn to selectively ignore wheelchairs and other such devices.

 

Seems to me an acceptable middle ground would be, not to try to disguise

your wheelchair as a {yak,horse,donkey,pushcart}, but to decorate it

as you would your period {yak,horse,donkey,pushcart}. Yarn and bells

and Mongolian danglies sound just great to me--always assuming it's

Mongolian that you want to be.  Otherwise, I suggest--with the vision

in my mind of the beautiful, elaborately decorated slipcovers for

directors' chairs that I've seen sometimes in the West--

 

wait for it, wait for it...

 

WHEELCHAIR BARDING.  Research the barding, horseblankets, etc. appropriate

to your time and place, and adapt as necessary to fit the physique of

your steed.

 

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin          Dorothy J. Heydt

Mists/Mists/West                   UC Berkeley

Argent, a cross forme'e sable           djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu

 

 

From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Wheelchairs! How?

Date: 2 Sep 1993 19:30:28 -0400

Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC

 

In article <CCFIHn.1Ly at usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,

>      I personally see no particular need for period looking

>wheelchairs (esp. since a lot of period furniture tended to be bulky).

>If we can selectively ignore glasses, orthodontia and othopedic braces,

>we can learn to selectively ignore wheelchairs and other such devices.

>To do otherwise sounds to me like a form of prejudice because most foot

>mobile folks aren't familiar with people in wheelchairs.

 

        Well no there is no *need* for it any more than for period

glasses on the part of everyone else. However the occupant of the chair

might himself be an authenticity maven and wish to have all period

accoutrements. I have seen pictures of Italian Renn wheeled invalid chairs.

They have small wheels so they are only good for being pushed about on a

smooth surface, but it's somewhere to start.

 

-Liz

--

Liz Stokes         | Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop ...  Okay, now take the fabric

Ilaine de Cameron  | off the loom (or away from the kittens). It needs to be

                   | finished. Just find some fullers' earth, a convenient

ilaine at panix.com   | stream, and some husky peasants to pound it with rocks.

 

 

From: ck290 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chandra L. Morgan-Henley)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Rickshaws and golf carts

Date: 30 Nov 1993 21:51:49 GMT

Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

 

Ok, I did some checking around.

 

For those who, like myself, have difficulty walking, 3-wheeled

electric "scooters" (like the ones you're probably starting to

see in your neighborhood supermarket/Kmart/WalMart) can be

rented for around $200/month (they are not available on a weekly

basis).

 

I own one, and it's a wonderful thing to have -- I'm really

looking forward to using it at Pennsic!  :-)

 

The advantages:

        - you always have a place to sit

        - you don't have to struggle _one_more_step_ up the hill

        - they are electric (no gas or diesel fumes)

        - they go about as fast as a person walking quickly

 

The drawbacks:

        - they have to be recharged every night

        - they are not as fast as golf carts

        - they only hold 1 person at a time

        - cost (of course)

 

If anyone is interested in renting one for use at pennsic, e-mail

me and we'll correspond.

 

Chandra (Cara knows nothing about scooters)

 

--

Chandra L. Morgan-Henley

ck290 at Cleveland.Freenet.edu

 

 

From: gray at cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fighting on a wheelchair

Date: 13 Dec 93 13:47:43

Organization: Dept of Comp and Info Sci, Univ of Mass (Amherst)

 

>>>>> On 12 Dec 1993 23:40:08 GMT, ga_tewes at postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes) said:

>> NNTP-Posting-Host: tasuniunio96h43.tuu.utas.edu.au

 

>> Greetings All!

>> The following message is forwarded for your considered attention:

 

 

>> *******msg starts*******

>> From: NICHOLASM at Underdale.UniSA.edu.au

>> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 09:57:49 +0930

>> Subject: Fighting in a wheel chair

>> To: sca-lochac at dialix.oz.au

 

>> Greetings to the Known World from Ingerith Ryzka

 

>> Lord James Ericsson sends warmest greetings to all and requests the

>> following

>> information:

 

>> Does anyone know of any heavy fighter who fights or who has fought from a

>> wheelchair?

 

>> May I ask someone (perhaps Silfren) to forward this to Sca-West and the

>> Rialto

>> as my mail to Sca-West is bouncing at present and I do not have access to

>> the Rialto.

 

>> Many thanks in advance,

 

>> Regards

 

>> Ingerith Ryzka

>> Barony of Innilgard

>> Principality of Lochac

>> Kingdom of the West

 

>> *******msg ends********

 

I heard tell just this past weekend that there was a member of the Tuchux who

fought in the field battle one year while in a wheelchair. His bodyguard was

overrun, and one member of the opposing forces purposefully dove on top of him

to protect him when his wheelchair was accidentally dumped over in the press.

 

Single combat, I can see it.

 

Lyle FitzWilliam

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lyle H. Gray                       Internet (personal): gray at cs.umass.edu

Quodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: wklosky at nitro.mines.colorado.edu

Subject: Re: Fighting on a wheelchair

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 19:20:16 GMT

 

ga_tewes at postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes) writes:

8< snipped question on fighting from a wheelchair

 

Someone in Storvik help me out; I seem to recall stories of one of the

Atlantian greats (could it have been Stryker?) fighting from a chair at

a Tourney of the Tower many many years ago due to having some problem with

his legs? Or is this a myth?

 

There is, of course, Sir Kief in Ansteorra, who doesn't fight from a chair,

but from crutches (and his single sword is deadly!).

 

branwynn ottersby

 

 

From: cosc19ut at menudo.uh.edu (E. d'Yverdon)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fighting on a wheelchair

Date: 13 Dec 1993 16:20:19 -0600

Organization: University of Houston

 

wklosky at nitro.mines.colorado.edu writes:

>

>There is, of course, Sir Kief in Ansteorra, who doesn't fight from a

>chair, but from crutches (and his single sword is deadly!).

>

>branwynn ottersby

 

For those who don't know Kief, he has only one leg. Quite often he doesn't

use his "war crutch" in battle. Fighters around here are warned early on

not to take Kief's leg, because he is one of the dealiest fighters from

the ground.

 

Etienne d'Yverdon

 

 

From: Elwyn.Halfmoon at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org (Elwyn Halfmoon)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Fighting on a wheelchair

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 11:45:00 -0500

 

> Does anyone know of any heavy fighter who fights or who has fought from

> a wheelchair?

 

No, but here in Ansteorra, Baron Sir Keif, who has only one leg, does pretty

damn good with single sword and crutch.  You should see what kind of mobility he

has with that crutch.  I've personally seen him get to the semi-finals of Crown

Tourney.  I also hear he fights double sword using the second sword as a crutch

until he's into the melee.

 

 

Organization: Penn State University

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 17:43:53 EST

From: Therion <HZS at psuvm.psu.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Fighting on a wheelchair

 

In article <GRAY.93Dec13134743 at ibis.cs.umass.edu>, gray at cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)

says:

 

>I heard tell just this past weekend that there was a member of the Tuchux who

>fought in the field battle one year while in a wheelchair.  His bodyguard was

>overrun, and one member of the opposing forces purposefully dove on top of him

>to protect him when his wheelchair was accidentally dumped over in the press.

 

Zenon, of the Bear Clan. He was a fully mobile fighter for years before

flipping his pickup truck one Halloween night, 3 or 4 years ago.  He still

attends Tuchux and SCA events, and fights semi-regularly.

                                                             Therion

 

 

From: amethysta at eric.stonemarche.org (Amethysta of Kensingto)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: SCA Sign Language

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 13:24:54 EST

 

Karen Larsdatter writes:

 

> Greetings, ye Rialto-Cruisers!

>

> Does anyone out there have a copy of a booklet/pamphlet distributed around

> the eastern part of the Known World (probably Eastrealm, Atlantia, et al)

> with the "official" signs for oft-used SCA words?  I'm going to be doing

> some sign-language interp work at Estrella War and would like to not have

> to "fudge" some last-minute signs for things like "Herald," "Laurel,"

> "Master/Mistress," "Lord/Lady," "Caid," "Outlands," and (ugh!) "Atenveldt"...

 

Hello!

        Any one interested in SCA sign language should contact the

following person:

 

Lady Cedar

P.O. Box 5904

Parsipppany, NJ

07054-6904

Tel. (201)-887-1779

 

This is the lady that did the signing at Pennsic this year for Great

Court, as well as many other places. I believe she also does classes on

this subject at Pennsic.

 

Amethysta of Kensington

 

 

From: haslock at oleum.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period citation for color-blindness?

Date: 14 Feb 1994 22:58:45 GMT

Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

 

Greetings from Fiacha,

 

As someone who with deficient color vision, I find this report not at all

surprising.

 

In article <0097A00B22F56120.2022DF84 at vnunet.UUCP>, asamplaski at vnunet.UUCP writes:

 

|> I just yesterday picked up the 2d edition of Thomas Kuhn's book on the nature

|> of scientific revolutions, and while thumbing through it came across a note

|> where he claims that "color-blindness was not noticed until Thomas Dalton

|> described it in 1794."

 

|> -Vlad the Purple, Myrkfaelinn

 

My deficiency was noted in school when I demanded a purple crayon instead of

the blue one I had been given. Without standardised colors and a teacher

who intrigued enough to push the issue, the deficiency would have been merely

another wierdness to be mocked or overlooked.

 

Painters may have noticed cases among their apprentices but wierd color choices

would fail to win them patrons. Dyers are about the only other trade where

precise color vision is relevant. Red/green types would also do badly as smiths

because of the significance of the red rediation from hot iron.

 

In general though, color coding would not seem to be significant to the

medieval. My own deficiency does not means that I cannot see colors, it means

that that some shades are less distinct for me that they are for others. I also

means that I will not decribe things by color, other than as a last resort.

 

        Fiacha, AnTir

        haslock at zso.dec.com

 

p.s. The deal with purple is that I can see purple with a large red component,

especially if the red is one of the lighter shades. Use a dark red and I see

a blue grey of some description.

 

 

From: alex0008 at gold.tc.umn.EDU (Rednaxela)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Period Color Blindness

Date: 15 Feb 1994 09:49:44 -0500

 

Good m'lord Vladisloc the Purple, and those attending his converse,

Lord Rednaxela sends unto thee greetings, and would with the lack of

humility which is his stock in trade, beg leave to offer his own

observations to this learned discussion,

 

Your question on colorblindness is most intreguing, and seems to be the

source of great intellectual amusement.  I commend thee.

 

Amongst my friends are artists of the most severe colorblindness, their

lack of color sense goes beyond the inablity to distinquish orange from

purple, they do not see in colors at all, lacking the cones (rods? my

biology is aged, I do fear) of the eye altogather.  And yet, as artists,

their ability to distinguish shades of grey is so intense that, as long as

they use natural colors (and not mixed paint palets), they can produce as

perfect an imitation of nature as you please, and with training they learn

to duplicate the natural hues with mixed palets, by nature of their

sensitivity to the greys.

 

This phenomenon would interfere with the detection of color-blindness,

especially in a culture where afflictions were frowned upon.  Thus, color

blindness might simply have been thought of as a "local" phenomenon, no

more remarkable than the unusual patterns on Farmer Theodorick's cow.

 

With this I close, please bear my feelings of good will to the goodly souls

of Myrkfaelinn whom might remember me.

 

- Rednaxela

 

Michael S. Alexander

(A.K.A.) Rednaxela

(612) 296-2304 (Work)

(612) 644-4817 (Home)

alex0008 at gold.tc.umn.edu

 

 

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Color blindness

Date: 14 Feb 1994 23:14:15 -0500

 

Fiacha, from An Tir, writes on color-blindness:

 

> My own deficiency does not mean that I can not see colors, it means that

> some shades are less distinct .....than others.

 

Earlier, he writes:

 

> Red/green types would also do badly as smiths because of the significance

> of the red radiation from hot iron.

 

But smiths are not in the business of distinguishing red iron from blue or

green or purple iron. The master will say to the apprentice: "When it looks

like this (holding up glowing metal), then do this (wielding a hammer). The

fact that the color value in the brain of the master differs from the value in

the brain of the apprentice does not invalidate this lesson. As you yourself

point out, the smith with a deficiency can still see color. Thus, he can

function as a smith.

 

All this is from logical construction, not experience: I can forge weld but

I am not color blind. Are there any color blind smiths out there who can

confirm this deduction?

 

                                              Beorthwine               

 

 

From: ghesmiz at bach.udel.edu (Michael Macchione)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Color blindness

Date: 16 Feb 1994 16:41:33 -0500

Organization: University of Delaware

 

David J. Corliss <corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU> wrote:

>Fiacha, from An Tir, writes on color-blindness:

> > My own deficiency does not mean that I can not see colors, it means that

> > some shades are less distinct .....than others.

>Earlier, he writes:

> > Red/green types would also do badly as smiths because of the significance

> > of the red radiation from hot iron.

>But smiths are not in the business of distinguishing red iron from blue or

>green or purple iron. The master will say to the apprentice: "When it looks

>like this (holding up glowing metal), then do this (wielding a hammer). The

>fact that the color value in the brain of the master differs from the value in

>the brain of the apprentice does not invalidate this lesson. As you yourself

>point out, the smith with a deficiency can still see color. Thus, he can

>function as a smith.

>

>All this is from logical construction, not experience: I can forge weld but

>I am not color blind. Are there any color blind smiths out there who can

>confirm this deduction?

 

It may be logical, but it may not be correct.  Now I am not a smith so I

can't help you there, but I am color blind.  Like Fiacha, I am red/green

color blind.  This does not mean that red = green, only that I can have

trouble seeing shades of red and green.  For example,  I have often looked

at two objects which to me look the same color but to someone else look

two different colors.  And vice versa!  I have looked at two colors which

look radically different to me which other "normal" people say are

practically the same.  My main problem is seeing colors just off from

gray, like light greens, light pinks, off whites, etc.  I have a tunic

that I swear is gray, but all of my friends say is sea mist green.

 

Now to agree with what you say above, if I see the same color twice I

envision it as the same color.  Thus if I see iron glowing at a particular

temperature (say 800 F {I don't know what a realistic temperature should

be, nor does it matter}), I should recognize the color. But that same

piece of iron may look exactly the same to me at 600F or 1000F or

possibly at every temperature in between.  If I had to rely on color to

determine when to do something to the metal, there is a good chance that I

would do it at the wrong time.  I did have this problem doing titrations

in a Chemistry class in college.  I was supposed to stop titrating when

the solution reached a particular color, (just off pink towards amber) and

I could never get it at the correct time.  It drove my professor nuts.

 

In actuallity, my eyes are not that bad in the range of colors that metals

tend to glow, but most people who are color blind will have different

problems, so someone might.

 

Kael

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: wklosky

Subject: Re: Color blindness

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 01:05:04 GMT

Organization: rec.org.sca

 

In article <9402150413.AA05261 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss) writes:

>Fiacha, from An Tir, writes on color-blindness:

>

> > My own deficiency does not mean that I can not see colors, it means that

> > some shades are less distinct .....than others.

>

>Earlier, he writes:

>

> > Red/green types would also do badly as smiths because of the significance

> > of the red radiation from hot iron.

>

>But smiths are not in the business of distinguishing red iron from blue or

>green or purple iron. The master will say to the apprentice: "When it looks

>like this (holding up glowing metal), then do this (wielding a hammer). The

>fact that the color value in the brain of the master differs from the value in

>the brain of the apprentice does not invalidate this lesson. As you yourself

>point out, the smith with a deficiency can still see color. Thus, he can

>function as a smith.

>

>All this is from logical construction, not experience: I can forge weld but

>I am not color blind. Are there any color blind smiths out there who can

>confirm this deduction?

>

>                                             Beorthwine                

 

--                                               

My lord is as color blind as you get, but he does fine in the smithy.

There has been little to suggest that he cannot tell when the metal is

red-hot. I think a significant point here also is radiation; hot iron

radiates not only light (and it is not a pure red, exactly) but also

a significant amount of heat, eh? :)

 

His main difficulties come when driving at night in a streetlight- and

stoplight-infested city. (Well, OK, if you overlook the occasional

odd-clothing combination as not being a difficulty -- after all, he's

not out for the cover of fashion magazines...) The green lights look

like white streetlights, and are hard to see.

 

branwynn ottersby

caer galen, the outlands

 

 

From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: color blindness

Date: 17 Feb 1994 14:20:20 -0500

Organization: The Internet

 

>I just yesterday picked up the 2d edition of Thomas Kuhn's book on

>the nature of scientific revolutions, and while thumbing through it

>came across a note where he claims that "color-blindness was not

>noticed until Thomas Dalton described it in 1794." I'm having a bit

>of trouble swallowing this; surely SOMEONE would have noted the

>existence of this condition and written it down

 

Oh boy!  A non-BoD topic I can talk about!

 

Thomas Dalton suffered from COMPLETE color blindness, a.k.a. Daltonism

(because he was the first person to describe it scientifically).  This

worked to his advantage; one day he had to accept an honor from the

King, which entailed wearing a purple baldric.  Dalton was a Quaker,

though, and the purple baldric was classified as frippery and thus

forbidden unto him.  No problem; Dalton claimed to the Church Elders

that _he_ thought the baldric was gray....

 

If anyone wrote it down before Dalton, it would have to have been one

of the Arabs (they wrote quote a bit on ophthalmological anomalies),

but no one comes to mind.

 

However, let's think about it.  There's color blindness, and then

there's Daltonism.  The basic color blind cannot distinguish between,

say, blue and green (my problem) or red and green (other people).

This does not mean, contrary to common notion, they see things as gray

(God knows how many times I've explained this to people who ask me

about it).  What it means is that if you show me a piece of paper that

is light blue, and a piece of paper that is light green, about half

the time I can't tell the difference between them.

 

What about the other half?  Ah, here's the catch: even though I might

perceive the two colors as the same, there are still other cues,

brightness being but one of many.  (For example, if you're red green

color blind, and you see the bottom light of a traffic light is on,

you know it's green, even though you can't tell the color of that

light from the color of the top light) So in practice, it's rather

more difficult to tell if someone is color blind.  There are _modern_

tests that will determine it immediately, but they don't date back

beyond the 19th century.

 

Also, color is cultural.  I recently read that one group of American

Indians (Navajo, I think) do not distinguish between yellow and green.

It may be that Medievals paid less attention to color distinctions

than we do.  

 

Tio dell'abaco

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)

Subject: Re: color blindness

Organization: Indiana University

Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 12:39:10 GMT

 

In article <9402171918.AA09545 at math.bu.edu> jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

>

>What about the other half?  Ah, here's the catch: even though I might

>perceive the two colors as the same, there are still other cues,

>brightness being but one of many.  (For example, if you're red green

>color blind, and you see the bottom light of a traffic light is on,

>you know it's green, even though you can't tell the color of that

>light from the color of the top light) So in practice, it's rather

>more difficult to tell if someone is color blind. There are _modern_

>tests that will determine it immediately, but they don't date back

>beyond the 19th century.

>

        Greetings from Lothar,

 

        Hmmm. I'm allegedly pretty color blind, because I can't

immediately identify the numbers hidden in the Ishihara color-blindness

test. However, I CAN trace the numbers slowly with my finger. I can also

distinguish very light shades of green and red from each other, unless

the light is very low or has a strong non-white component to it (like

lots of yellow from an incandescent bulb). I'm allegedly mildly

red-green color blind, but I don't buy it. I mostly seem to be

insensitive to the intensity of certain reds and greens.

 

>Also, color is cultural.  I recently read that one group of American

>Indians (Navajo, I think) do not distinguish between yellow and green.

>It may be that Medievals paid less attention to color distinctions

>than we do.  

>

 

        Definately. The Irish didn't distinguish between certain shades

of grey, and certain shades of light blue. Hence the Irish "blue" horse.

The norse didn't seem to distinguish between certain shades of dark blue

and black. Hence, Harald "Blue Tooth". How people divide up colors is

very definately a cultural thing. Don't think that the Western ROYGBIV

split of the visible spectrum is universal throughout human culture.

 

        Lothar

>Tio dell'abaco

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: color blindness

Date: 18 Feb 1994 17:12:26 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

In article <CLF75A.3JC at usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,

thomas wrentmore barnes <tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:

>In article <9402171918.AA09545 at math.bu.edu> jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

>>

>>Also, color is cultural.  I recently read that one group of American

>>Indians (Navajo, I think) do not distinguish between yellow and green.

>>It may be that Medievals paid less attention to color distinctions

>>than we do.  

>

>      Definately. The Irish didn't distinguish between certain shades

>of grey, and certain shades of light blue. Hence the Irish "blue" horse.

>The norse didn't seem to distinguish between certain shades of dark blue

>and black. Hence, Harald "Blue Tooth". How people divide up colors is

>very definately a cultural thing. Don't think that the Western ROYGBIV

>split of the visible spectrum is universal throughout human culture.

 

Let's make a clear distinction between two different things being discussed

here: the ability to distinguish between particular colors and having

different names for those colors. This subject provided some very important

evidence to the (fairly fledgeling) field of cognitive science (i.e., how

the human mind works) as reported in papers such as "Basic Color Terms" by

Brent Berlin and Paul Kay (1969). Here's the brief synopsis:

 

Different cultures group colors differently and draw the lines between

those groups in different places. Within any given "color" (as culturally

defined) there will be a particular focal shade that is considered the

"best example" of that color, and this "focal color" will be extremely

consistant throughout that culture. Comparing between cultures, we find

that "focal colors" (as defined by wavelength or a standard set of color chips)

are cross-cultural, i.e., if a culture has a word/concept for "red", their

"focal red" will be the same as that of other cultures that have a "red".

These "focal" colors correspond to particular wavelengths involved in the

physiology of human vision, which helps explain their cross-cultural

universality.

 

Now getting back to the original subject -- one of the cultures described

in the above study has only two color words/concepts: "black" and "white".

Every hue of the rainbow is classified as one or the other. But this doesn't

mean that the people in that culture don't _see_ colors as we do, just that

they don't _name_ them in the same way. Insular Celtic languages have a word

"glas" that covers what in English would be called blue, green, grey and certain

types of brown. But that doesn't mean that if you could question an ancient

Irishman and showed him a "blue" object and a "green" object that he wouldn't

be able to distinguish between them on the basis of color, just that he would

call them by the same color name. Similarly, most people would identify as

"green" an object of a dark "spruce green" and also a "chartreuse" one, but

that doesn't mean that we see no difference between them!

 

This is a very different question than that of color-blindness, in which

two objects that to "normal" people are distinguishable by color are

_seen_ as indistinguishable on that basis.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (who tries very hard no to giggle when

listening to her two red-green color blind brothers try to blazon heraldry)

 

 

From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Sites and Autocrats

Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 03:01:02 EST

Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op

 

pjb4288 at ultb.isc.rit.edu (Pete - Toonatic - Boulay) writes:

 

> Greetings gentles...

>

>   Even though I reside in the East, I wish to make a request of all Autocrats

> that will benefit not only myself but other SCAdians I am sure.

>

> As a person with a disability, I have to look long and hard for events that

> are accessible to my magical steed.  It is not easy but I have been able to

> attend a few events.

>

> When you Autocrats begin the task of setting up sites, please remember that

> electronic steeds don't climb stairs and try to take that into mind.

>  

> Thank you ever so kindly...

>

> In service...

>

> Lorin Francis Renaud

> Thescorre

> --

> Peter J. Boulay --17 Split Rock Road-Pittsford, NY 14534-The ToonAddict!

> Email should be sent only to PJB4288 at ritvax.isc.rit.edu

 

Milord, here in the Barony of Stonemarche, we try to have all our events

in accessable sites. And where stairs hinder, squires assist.  We can

also appoint a volunteer PCA who can act the part of a period attendant

to enhance your fun. We can also offer sign language translation. Many of

our subjects work at a local rehab center, so we have professional

experience.

BTW, I have Muscular Dystrophy, as do 3 others in this Barony.  It hasn't

stopped me from being active. Thanks for your post. Much needed.

 

Megan

 

my Companion Dog was given an Award of Paws in Royal Court.  She is

dipicted on my badge: checky argent and gules, a Talbot hound sable

harnessed azure sejeant.

(for the heraldically challenged, it's a black retriever in a blue

harness against a Purina dog food bag. Yeah!

 

==

In 1994: Linda Anfuso

In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive  

In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644

 

                                YYY     YYY

meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org      |  YYYYY  |

                                |____n____|

 

 

 

From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: In chairs (was Re: Pennsic on Discovery)

Date: 27 Nov 94 13:04:33 GMT

Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

 

Guiliam (Zach) writes:

>(Lewis Tanzos) writes:

>>(Suze Hammond) writes:

 

>>>(Who is the valiant fellow who fights from a chair? Intrepid!)

 

>I saw that at the War. After which about 4 of us were doing our best

>to Convince Baroness Megan of Stonemarche that for her to try it

>would be a *bad* idea. (Archery Yes, Fighting no)

 

If you're talking about the Tuchux, I've been in a field battle against

him once.  I have no objection to him being out there, but I would have

preferred some foreknowledge that he was there, rather than breaking

through their ranks and coming across a wheelchair in the process of flipping

over.

 

Archery *is* possible from a wheelchair.  Ioseph Pecheur (Joseph Archer)

won the title of Baronial Archer last year, he's been in a wheelchair since

he was 17.  He's also a member of the Order of the Golden Alce (AEthelmearc

martial award for fighting, fencing, and archery).  When he was inducted,

the gorilla sized fighters lifted him into the air wheelchair and all and

carried him out of court that way! ;-)

                                                       - Dagonell

 

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr

Habitat           : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony

Internet    : salley at niktow.cs.canisius.edu

USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

 

 

From: UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Golf-Carts

Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 10:03

Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)

 

In article <9411301557.aa25783 at mc.lcs.mit.edu>,

WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU (Peter Rose) writes:

 

>>"Golf carts don't leave smelly piles in their wake. Maybe we could

>>dress the golf carts up like dragons?" (Alison)

>>

>>But medieval people did not have dragons wandering around their camp

>>sites.

>>

>>David/Cariadoc

>>

>  Maybe we could dress the golf-carts up to look mule-teams, or oxen?

 

Funny you should menttion that!  Frater Ursus, our Founding

Baron (once known as Master Bjo:rn), has begun using an electric

3-wheeler for transport, owing to some medical problems. Lady

Alix Tiberga put a papier-mache' mule's head on it for Namron

Protectorate, and all thought it very fitting and proper.

 

--

udsd007 at ibm.okladot.state.ok.us    (192.149.244.136)

Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews) Namron, Ansteorra

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: one eyed fighting

From: trelaine at beacon.sci.org (Larry McCoy)

Date: Fri, 23 Dec 94 13:38:32 PST

Organization: Beacon BBS

 

I also am blind in one eye, but I've been that way since I was eight years

old, and learned how to compensate. Most fighters and others that know me are

surprised to learn that this is so.  I've been fighting for over 15 years,

and only on a few occasions have I been "blindsided" or at least figured that

if I'd had both eyes I mighta seen that shot coming.., course there have been

times when two eyes might have been an impairment,, like depending on them

for the perifreal(sp) (I can read , but not spell,,) vision rather than

keeping the ocularies moving at high speed in a melee situation,,

 

                                Master Sir Anluan Trelaine

                                West/Mists/Wolfscairn

 

 

From: Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: wheelchairs

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 20:34:00 -0800

 

MM> From: michael.mccollum at dazed.charleston.sc.us (Katie)

Ti> The comment that a wheelchair bound individual should

Ti> "stay at home",

 

MM> Doesn't deserve a response because it is utterly assinine. It's

MM> another bigot who's prejudices are showing. I hope this individual

MM> doesn't hold any titles in the SCA, because they're a pretty low form

MM> of organism.

MM> Katie (not Michael)

MM> aka Arianne

 

MM> A lady with a disease that may someday require that she show up at an

MM> event in a wheelchair of her own!  And WILL!!!

 

This reminds me of two things...

 

First, did they have anything like wheelchairs in period? Since people got

limbs lopped off all the time, they must have had to be moved sometime,

especially since some households moved in a circuit between several houses.

 

The other is that we have in our kingdom a merchant who merchants from a

chair, and I have seen him tear down his tent, booth, and entire camp

completely by himself, and seem to enjoy doing it. (I asked if he needed

anything and he said "oh no, I like doing it myself!" and proceeded to

roll around on the dusty ground (I mean sans chair) piling things into

loads for his van, pulling down the tent, rolling up the carpet, etc.,

then hiked himself back into the chair to get into the van to move it into

place and to reach the van floor and load up. Truly a wonder to behold!

(And faster than a lot of us "ordinarily-abled" folk.)

 

He was so impressive I'd have cheered, but it would have embarrassed him...

 

... Moreach

 

 

From: lmartin at utic (Lee Martindale)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: wheelchairs

Date: 22 Mar 1995 05:57:28 GMT

Organization: UniComp Technologies International Corp -- Internet Service

 

BECKUM (beckum at aol.com) wrote:

: Trying to keep people who are in wheel chairs away from events is

: censorship and I would rather not see the SCA get into that.

 

With respect, m'lady....trying to keep people who are in wheelchairs away

from events is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

There are several of us in Ansteorra, myself included, who would, if there

was need, *crawl* up whatever obstacles stood in our way, and then

remark on the need in poem, tune or tale.  (Hell hath no fury like a

ticked-off bard.)

 

I didn't see the original post that started this, but the tone of the

responses puts me in mind of my first outdoor SCA event - Steppes

Warlord XIX.  I was making my way to the showerhouse on my magical

sedan chair when a lady (whom I had never seen before and have not seen

since), put herself in my way and proceeded to lecture me on how

un-period the aforementioned mode of mobility was and how I had simply

*destroyed* her sense of ambiance.  I listened as patiently as my

bladder would permit, then thanked her for her counsel.  I promised

to abandon my unseemly form of conveyance the very minute she could

secure for me a period sedan chair and 6 likely lads to be at my beck

and call to carry.  (6 in that I am a lady of generous proportions).

She was aghast, and probably worse, as I then excused myself and made

a necessarily hasty exit - right over her toes.

 

Unseemly tho that woman may have found it, my sedan chair has "earned

its keep" in the years since.  Last year the Warlord site lay in the

path of a tornadic storm, with a swift, camp-wide warning essential.

It was me to whom the autocrats came to make that particular round -

at 5.5 miles per hour.

 

And this year I have the honor to be co-autocrating Steppes Warlord

XXII with my household.

 

Keep the "wheelies" away?  I think not!  And it pleases me to read

that others think it ridiculous as well.  Thank you....

 

Ly. Llereth

  

 

From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: wheelchairs

Date: 28 Mar 1995 14:09:05 -0500

Organization: The Internet

 

Moreach writes:

 

>First, did they have anything like wheelchairs in period? Since

>people got limbs lopped off all the time, they must have had to be

>moved sometime, especially since some households moved in a circuit

>between several houses.

 

There's a painting by...Breughel?  That shows a bunch of beggars

without various limbs.  They're using various devices (crutches, yes,

but artificial legs as well) to get around.  IMSC, one of them was on

something that looked very much like one of those "Radio Flyer"

wagons, using crutches to propel himself.  

 

Any good book on medical history will talk about the history of

prosthetic devices.  (Unfortunately, none of mine are on this coast)

 

William the Alchymist

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Pennsic: am I reading this right?

From: nancy.frankel at canrem.com (Nancy Frankel)

Date: Sun, 14 May 95 11:28:00 -0500

Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)

 

At the risk of having someone land on my head with both feet (or at

least a couple of wheels!) I would like to respond to all of those

people who seem a bit perplexed as to why wheelchairs are disallowed

from melee combat.  It has been the experience of my entire household

last year, as well as the people fighting with them, that a certain

person in a wheelchair was being used as a human battering ram, causing

a fair bit of unwarranted physical injury (in illegal areas- below

the knee etc) to the people he was smashed into.  The concerns do not

end there (with the people being hit by him). Questions were also

raised about the extent of injuries he himself could face by being

toppled over & trod upon. Whereas that is an eventuality that all melee

fighters face, at least those with full functioning ability in their

legs can pull them selves up under their shields (turtling up) to avoid

further injury. If a gentle is in a wheelchair, presumably he or she is

not capable of using their legs either at all or somewhat, and in this

case, they cannot get away to safety.

 

I too know of physically challenged people who have won the belt or

baldric through fighting prowess ... no-one in charge of the War rules

this year can gainsay their rights or abilities to play in

single/tournament combat. However, in a mass melee situation, it is

considered an unnecessary risk, and perhaps it is just a case of that

one guy whose group used him as a siege engine ruining the opportunity

for the rest of the people in a similar situation.

Furthermore, lest anyone out there think that this is a prejudicial

situation, let all who read this know that when I ruled the MidRealm

many (many) years ago, the person I chose as my Champion only had one

leg. His enthusiasm for and enjoyment of the sport, despite his physical

challenges were the attributes which made him an augmentation to my

court.

 

   If I have said anything here that could possibly be misconstrued as

an insult, please believe that I have no intention of doing so. I just

did not want anyone out there to think that the Kings & Queens who set

up the War rules this year had any prejudices or biases or bad feelings

towards physically challenged people. They, as all wise & pure thinking

individuals, are merely concerned for the safety of all.

 

Thank you for listening

Countess Mistress Caitlin Stuart

 

 

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: YKYITSDAW

Date: 21 Jul 1995 17:06:23 GMT

Organization: Netcom

 

In <3uojv9$pt at ns.mcs.kent.edu> jhusvar at nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (John

Husvar) writes:

 

>Trying to figure out a way to make a wheelchair seem less mundane is a

>real puzzlement.

 

>The chair will just have to take its chances with whatever "Period

>Police" happen to fall upon it out of the bushes. :)

 

Hm-m-m.  How about making the chair into a Chair of Estate?  Can you

affix some rods to the back sides and rig up a lovely brocade fabric to

make your chair into one for a High Lord?  It would give you a sun

shade.  I'm not sure how better to describe it than being similar to a

canopy bed...you're putting a canopy over the chair.  You could put a

little of the fabric down from the arms, fastening it to avoid getting

into the wheels.

 

Alys K.

 

 

From: rudi3964 at utdallas.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: YKYITSDAW

Date: 21 Jul 1995 15:01:59 -0500

Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas

 

No problem -- people usually ignore wheelchairs as much as they do

eyeglasses and duct tape.

 

The only time I have ever taken public notice of a wheel-chair was when I

was drawn in a fencing list against Baron Lyelf the Lame, who fights from

his chair.  I took my tourney chair out there and met him in equal combat.

 

Robin of Gilwell/Jay Rudin

 

 

From: corun at access4.digex.net (Corun MacAnndra)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: SCA in whellchairs. Was Re: YKYITSDAW

Date: 21 Jul 1995 13:31:22 -0400

Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

 

In article <3uojv9$pt at ns.mcs.kent.edu>,

John Husvar <jhusvar at nimitz.mcs.kent.edu> wrote:

>In article <3umq93$g5v at metroux.metrobbs.com> nutmeg at clubmet.metrobbs.com writes:

>>You try to cover your excessively mundane wheelchair backpack with a

>>length of Buchanan tartan.  Then you are quietly taken aside by a good gentle

>>who explains at length that the tartan is more obtrusive than the

>>original luggage.

>

>And No Kidding There I Am, too!

>

>Trying to figure out a way to make a wheelchair seem less mundane is a

>real puzzlement.

>

>Here it be a few weeks from Pennsic and I, too, can't quite decide what

>to do with this thing.

>

>I'm at the point where I'm ready to just bite the blade and let the thing

>hang out in all it's radiant glory and concentrate on making _me_ as

>un-mundane as possible.

>

>The chair will just have to take its chances with whatever "Period

>Police" happen to fall upon it out of the bushes. :)

 

Milord and Milady,

 

Two things present themselves to this addled head of mine.

 

Primus: The easiest and most convenient thing for you is to simply leave

the chairs alone. People should just adopt the same concept the Japanese

have adopted wrt living in houses with paper walls. You don't see or hear

what you aren't supposed to see or hear. At this point, the chair simply

ceases to exist. You become treated as anyone else, with all the dignity

and honour you deserve. This is something that chairless people can then

learn to practice outside the SCA.

 

Secundus: You could attach something very like a horse or a portion of

a horse to the front of your chair, and voila, you're in a horse drawn

cart. There is a fellow who rides a bicycle around Pennsic that has the

front and hind quarters attache to the bike, disguising it as much as

possible. I once attended a Ren Faire to babysit the small boy of a dear

friend of mine while she worked one of the booths. She had decorated his

stroller up with someting resembling a Unicorn. <side note to all single

men: walking around a Ren Faire with a baby boy in a stroller disguised

as a unicorn is a big hit with the ladies>

 

Now this latter solution, while cute, may be inconvenient for you if the

horse (or yak or camel or whatever) has to be removed expiditously, say

when you need to use the euphemism. But a clever craftsperson could easily

fix it so it snaps into place with a few easily manipulated buckles or

some such device.

 

And if you don't like the horse idea, you could try the Viking longchair

disguise. There is nothing so terrifying as the sight of a fierce Viking

attacking in his or her longchair. (Hey, it worked for the bus and Morgana's

golf cart)

 

These are just some ideas. Take them for what they are worth to you.

 

In service,

Corun (too many years in theatre, too long in front of a computer)

===============================================================================

   Corun MacAnndra   |            The first rule of intelligent tinkering

Dark Horde by birth |                 is to save all the pieces.

   Moritu by choice  |                                               A. Leopold

 

 

From: cjcannon at ucdavis.EDU (Carol Cannon)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: RE:  Wheelchairs

Date: 27 Jul 1995 19:27:14 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

I know it's a little out of period, but I found an illustration of

'Louis XIV veillissant promene dans le parc de Versailles' on p. 41 of

"Montesquieu" / Jean Starobinski.  Paris : Seuil, 1994.  

 

It shows the king seated on what looks like the floorboard of a chariot

[i.e. flat and u-shaped in front], the floorboard being mounted on 1

small wheel, which is turned by the passenger's moving a steering lever

like those on a modern hand-scooter.  The two back wheels are much

larger.  The king's throne/chair is royally upholstered, of course.  The

contraption is being pushed by not less than three good-sized footmen.

 

Those of you who have wheelchairs may not wish to trade them in, but

perhaps they could be 'guised by the use of a little lightweight plyboard

or ? to look more like what the king was using, esp. if you could 'hire'

yourself some good healthy-looking footmen and put them in your livery.  

 

Good luck, in any case.  -- Grannia

 

 

From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: WHEELCHAIRS AND

Summary: Disabled Guild

Date: 22 Apr 95 10:05:10 GMT

Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

 

Maureen S. O'Brien writes:

> In a previous article, rebel at horde.com (Mark R. Kiel) says:

> >Great, now do something about it. The SCA prides itself on being a volunteer

> >orginization, so volunteer to be the 'handicap autocrat'.

> Why don't we _all_ volunteer for it?  :)

> I propose, in fact, a guild of sorts.  Why don't concerned Scadians like

> ourselves, including the disabled ones whom life forces to be concerned,

> volunteer our services to the autocrats to look over sites for problems

> and do something to correct them?  Perhaps one could also provide training

> for folks on what it is like to be disabled and how one can do little

> things that make the event more liveable for everyone.

 

Said guild has already formed!  Contact the guildmaster(s) at:

        Guilliame and Kylara du Blumont

        c/o Randall and Kathy Gradl

        11624 Bolton Road

        Springville, NY 14141

BTW, Randall is blind and has served as part of our site selection crew.

It may be mean, but it's fun watching site owners realize that they're

"disabled accessable site" statement *IS* going to be put to the test. ;-)

 

In addition to site checking, the guild does plan to teach disabled awareness

at upcoming A&S workshops.  Currently, they're working with teaching

disabled new members the unique problems of the SCA. Parnell, Randall's

dog, who's been taught to keep Randall from harm, would pull him away from

a list field as soon as he heard the clashing start.

> Disability was not always ignored or despised in period; the people who

> were disabled were as much a contributing part of their world as they

> are of ours.  Consider Odin's little proverb in the Elder Edda about how

> even the blind and the lame were useful to the community.  If the Norse,

> living in their harsh world, could think of ways to let the disabled

> participate as equals, surely it would be uncourteous, unchivalrous,

> and downright stupid for us not to do at least as well.

 

Ever take a hand-spinning lesson from someone blind?  I have.  Her fingers

were so deft and sure and fast, it was hard to believe she couldn't see

what she was doing.

 

> [If you wanted to name it after someone, I suppose you could call it after

> Margaret of Castello, who though born with blindness, dwarfism, lameness,

> and a hunchback to contend with, ministered to the poor with whom she lived.

> Or St. Germain.  Or Tyr.  Whoever we like.]

 

The guild is still in it's early stages of forming.  I don't know if they've

picked a name yet.  Suggest it to them.

 

> If anyone is interested in learning about things they can do, I suggest

> they contact Samanda Jeude (I've got her address;e-mail me for it), one

> of the founders of the science fiction fandom handicapped access group,

> Electrical Eggs. She'd be used to issues like weird clothes and you

> probably won't have to explain who we are....

 

Give me her USnail address and I'll pass it on to them. They'd probably

love to her from her.

> Maureen S. O'Brien              We are like the roses ---

> ad451 at dayton.wright.edu            We are forced to grow.

 

                                                       - Dagonell

 

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr

Habitat           : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony

Internet    : salley at cs.canisius.edu  (Please use this, reply may not work.)

USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

 

 

From: just Kate <ez010263 at peseta.ucdavis.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Epilepsy and Fighting

Date: 3 Jan 1996 09:43:51 GMT

Organization: University of California, Davis

 

cerosenberg at usa.pipeline.com(Carl Rosenberg) wrote:

refore, this

> person with epilepsy can avoid this unnecessary medical intervention by

> letting others know of his condition.  A medical bracelet is insufficient

> as it is likely to be lost in the armor.

> Carl Rosenberg

 

I have to agree that a medic alert can be overlooked, as Carl

noted.  It's not a bad idea to warn folks of a problem regardless

(like the marshal and/or chirurgeon and/or someone you trust).

I'm not really comfortable telling a total stranger, however,

the paticulars of my medical make-up; so I have a medic alert

attached to my breastplate in addition to the one that lives

permanently around my neck.  A friend of mine put two spaced

holes along the front rim of his helm for his spare medic alert

(I originally stole the idea from him).  Both places are up

front in noticable spots.  It's not a bad way to approach the

problem.  

 

ttfn, Twcs

 

 

From: kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu (C. Kevin Kellogg)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: I would like to join; BUT

Date: 20 Feb 1996 18:49:23 GMT

Organization: San Diego State University

 

BriThyla (brithyla at aol.com) wrote:

: As many have said, don't allow your disability to stop you. At Pennsic,

: there is a young man that actually fights in armor from a wheel chair. His

: friends lashed wooden poles to the sides and one of them pushes him around

: the battlefield so that he can fight too.

 

        I missed the original while at Estrella, but let me add to the

many encouraging words already spoken.  I have the marvelous privilege

of being in the same household as two fine gentlemen that just happen

to be in wheel chairs.  Baron Talaque reigned as Baron of Calafia from

his, and is still a very active and important member of the Barony in

his retirement.  He serves as Faculty Advisor for the College of

St. Isisdore.  Lord Mark de Bueaumenoire (sorry, Mark, I know I butchered

the spelling) has served as the communications officer at the last several

Potrero wars, monitoring a collection of CB's, Ham radios, and cell phones,

as well as generally keeping Autocrat's Camp organized. He also edited

the most recent Calafian Directory.  Both men have done good service to

our Household, and are valued members of Calafia.

 

               Avenel Kellough

 

 

From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Sign Language in Court???

Date: 3 Nov 1996 01:07:00 GMT

Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo, NY  14208

 

DeeWolff (deewolff at aol.com) wrote:

: I have the privilege of residing in the East, where there is a wonderful

: herald who signed just about every court I have attended. I unfortunately

: do not know her name, but I sure the current royals do......

 

She's Lady Cedar.  Pennsic Court was wonderful this year. The herald called

*her* into court to accept a service award.  She was in full "In the ears, out

the fingers" mode when she suddenly realized she was signing her own name!

She stopped cold, stared at her hands for a few seconds, then turned to the

herald.  The entire court was grinning at her.  The applause for her was

thunderous!

 

                                                       - Dagonell

 

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr

Habitat           : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony

Internet    : salley at cs.canisius.edu  (Please use this, reply may not work.)

USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, NY 14212-2029

 

 

From: srankin at op.net (Susan Rankin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Disabled in the SCA

Date: 15 Sep 1997 15:31:44 GMT

Organization: OpNet -- Greater Philadelphia Internet Service

 

UDSD007 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US says...

>What would make a site not "accessible" in your view?  Is a

>site accessible if you can get to the toilets and feast

>without help? If, without aid, you can get to over half the

>activities you want to participate in? If you can get to

>everything?

 

          Speaking as one with visual difficulties... Good things to look for are roomy indoor facilities.  Will the room be big enough for everyone coming and still allow for the passage of wheelchairs or persons with various types of canes (Support canes as well as those used by the blind.) Is there a ramp leading into the Feast Hall?  Is there at least one handicap toilet facility?   Bonuses, though not expected as this can be difficult to find, a flat paved surface near the list field.  At past Michaelmas events,  we are fortunate enough to have such a setup, but none in wheelchairs have attended.

 

>In how much detail? What sorts of things would you want in the

>newsletter? What if the environment changed due to weather

>between the time the announcement was printed (or submitted

>for printing) and the day of the event?

 

       Hmmm, things for the newsletter... Well definitely the existance of the ramp into the feast hall, the appropriate toilet facilities, and what the conditions near the list field are like.

 

       Somethings that we ourselves can do are:

         1   Ask for the event site phone number (if there is one) from the autocrat and call to ask those in charge of the site itself about facilities, ramps, and the allowance of guide dogs.

         2    A few days ahead of the event, call someone in the area for a weather report.  This will give you a clue as to what the ground conditions will be like so that you can take appropriate precautions. i.e. Perhaps bringing some sheets of wood to make a path for the wheel chair to travel and be seated upon at the list field.  These weather reports can even be found online.

        

         The autocrats job is a big one, a nerve wracking one.  There are a few things we can do to make it a bit easier by doing some of our own checking.  We will be searching out a new site for Michaelmas soon and I intend to give the place a look-see with the afor mentioned concerns in mind before we decide.

 

          Luta

 

 

Subject: Re: ANST - Court Herald Style

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 21:35:57 MST

From: Lee Martindale <lmartin at airmail.net>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

 

Kateryn R Heathryge wrote:

> Actually, to be heard, one should stand with hips, shoulders and ears in

> line so that the air column is straight, and your face should be pointed

> at the audience.

 

If I may interject a note to potential heralds from the ranks of

my fellow "wheelies", the aforementioned posture can be successfully

assumed from a sitting position.

--

Lee Martindale / Llereth Wyddffa an Myrddin / The Copper Bard

email: lmartin at airmail.net

http://web2.airmail.net/lmartin

 

 

From: "Ld Tristan de Rochebrune" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Fwd: SCA-Disabilities

Organization: Calontir

Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 06:14:14 -0600

 

After the discussion of epilepsy I though it may a good idea to repost this.

 

Ld. Tristan

Calontir

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Chris Denny" <Keidale at webtv.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 7:01 AM

Subject: SCA-Disibilities

 

 

Greetings to the poulace of the Known World,

After a debate that took place on the Middlebridge sometime back

concerning kids and adults with disabilities in the SCA I have started a

mailing list for just that.It is called SCA-Disabilities. There is so

many in our organization who fall into this catagory that we have set up

a place where your concerns can be heard.

If you would like to be apart of his, please go to the following,

www.onelist.com/subscribe/SCA-Disabilities

Those already subscribed look foward to hearing from you.

Thank you

Keidale

 

http://community.webtv.net./Keidale/TheHouseofSeasons

 

 

From: Ted Eisenstein <alban at socket.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Epilepsy, diabetes, and other conditions

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:27:16 -0600

 

Talan said

>>A good friend of mine was a diabetic who was subject to severe

hypoglycemic episodes and grand mal seizures.  The first time I spent

much time with her in person she managed to have both in the space of a

few hours.  As I, with no experience of either, was the only other

person available, I was *extremely* grateful for the brief

information/instruction sheet that she carried prominently in her

purse.  She didn't *like* carrying it - I think that she felt that it

compromised her independence - but she (reluctantly!) admitted that it

was the sensible and courteous thing to do.<<

 

and, later in the same post

>>As for the original issue of fighting, I see no particular need to

inform your opponent of your condition as long as you've informed

*someone* appropriate, perhaps a senior marshal or two and a

chirurgeon.  (I'm assuming here that your doctor approves. If you

haven't asked, please do that first.)<<

 

Two words:

 

Medic Alert.

 

They keep a list of what medical conditions you have (all the way from

drug allergies to asthma to heart conditions to epilepsy to diabetes to

_anything_ that may be of concern to anyone treating you on an

emergency basis.) The list is confidential. Medic Alert is a Good Thing

to know about.

They also sell (more or less at cost) a bracelet/neck chain engraved

with information you ask to be put on it.

 

http://www.medicalert.org/

 

or

 

MedicAlert Foundation

2323 Colorado Avenue

Turlock, California 95382-2018

Telephone 1-800-IDALERT (1-800-432-5378)

Fax 209-669-2495

 

Alban, who really ought to update his information

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:54:16 -0500

From: "JRMapes" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

From: "Stefan li Rous" <stefan at texas.net>

> Tristan commented:

> > From: "Rovena" <rovena at softdisk.com>

> > > You stated that every person should have the option of participating

in

> > > everything.  Is that realistic?  How would a wheelchair  person fight

in a

> > > melee?

> >

> > Actually Quite well thank you :-) Even won some tounrey's.

>

> Thanks Tristan for giving us a first-hand example. I've seen folks in

> wheelchairs in SCA battles. Apparently in some situations being in a

> wheelchair can be an advantage. I seem to remember a combat rule for

> either Pennsic or Gulf Wars that you were not allowed to use your

> wheelchair bound comrades as battering rams against your opponents.

 

YEs, which  was ok by me. I didnt appreciate the though of being used as a

battering ram lol. Wheelchair fighin has a huge advantage if you are good at

sword and board. the only target available to hit is 3" of Helm and sword

arm when throwing a shot.

 

> Similarly, down here in Ansteorra, we have Sir Kief. Sir Kief, currently

> Earl Marshal for Ansteorra, has one leg amputated above the knee. He

> fights in both tournaments and melees. Crutch and sword, anyone? The

> last thing you want to do with Kief is take his leg. He's a tough

> competitor on one leg. He's much, much worse on the ground.

 

I owe a lot to Sir Kief. It was the butt chewing i took from him that

convienced me to put away my bow and pull the light archer tape markers from

my helm to return to the melee with a big stik. It wouldnt have been so bad

that chewing out but it was at Northern Regional Tribute in front of

eveyone, hehe. called out in front of royals...hehe try being called down

on the carpet in front of TRM's and court and the whole bleeding northern

Anst army!

 

Yes it was Ansteorra where i relearned to fight from a wheelchair in many of

the northern region tournies including a couple NR Warlords.

 

> If after reading this, particularly if you have comments from personal

> or professional experience, please feel free to send me a message for

> possible inclusion in this file.

 

BTW I sent you off list an old email from my fighting days. called

Wheelchair Combat: Limits and Precautions.  If anyone else would care to get

it jsut give me a yell. its basically soe observations and helpfull hints i

learned along the way of adjusting to fighting in a wheelchair from being a

stand up kinda guy er i mean fighter :-)

 

Tristan

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:40:12 -0600

From: "R. Del Boccio" <serian at qwest.net>

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

there is a list for people with disabilities in SCA called

medievaldisableds, on yahoogroups.com.  There are

interesting discussions on a variety of topics regarding SCA

and access, including things like camp cooking, archery,

etc.  If any of you are interested in this list but are

having trouble finding it, just let me know.

 

Serian

 

 

Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 23:58:44 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

Rovena wrote:

>Our shire birthday is held in a horse pasture.  The only toilets are

>portalets. There is no way we could alter the accomodations.

 

Out here we can rent wheel-chair accessible port-a-potties. These are

useful for all sorts of disabilities, not only wheelchairs, being

lower to the ground, having a wide doorway, and hand rails inside, as

well as a lot more interior space. I'm sure they must cost more than

a regular single, but if you have other people in your shire with

physical problems besides your husband, it might be worth seeing if

they can fit into a budget.

 

Anahita

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:59:07 -0500

From: "JRMapes" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

From: <LrdRas at aol.com>

> Ageed. There is no reason to expect the SCA fighters to provide for the

> needs of a wheelchair bound person

 

If they did i would for one be offended. They dont make special stuff up for

anyone else then why should i be different. If i win a tourney i dont want a

bloody asterisk in the book beside my name. Either ya make it within the given rules or ya dont. Be it Fighting, Arts and Science Competitions, or Arching.

 

Considerations can be made for necessity if and when possible, ie ports

johns, temp ramps, even leaving the mushrooms out of the stew if severe

allergies abound.

 

Considerations can be made for non-necessity if and when possible but its

not mandatory nor should it be. The gesture wil be greatly appreciated by

all those on the receiving end im sure. But to expect it each and everytime

is as absurd as thinking just because IÕm in a wheelchair. I also have brain

damage and must be spoken to very loud and very slow.

 

For me in the SCA its more rewarding to know i did something without

exceptions being made because of my four wheels.

 

Tristan

 

 

From: "JRMapes" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

To: <stefan at texas.net>

Subject: Wheelchair Combat: Limits and Precautions

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:46:44 -0500

 

Here is a copy of an old email i sent in a chit chat about wheelchair fighting.

Feel freee to use it if you want. its a bit old as i said and for the record

i no longer hold my Auth. for fighting or Marshalling in Ansteorra not my

auth. for fighting in Calontir.

 

Tristan

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tristan" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

Sent: Wednesday, 22 December, 1998 1:49 PM

Subject: Fighting limits and precautions

 

The rules that I worked out for combat in Calon were very simple.

First no changes needed to be made as far as armor and weapon requirements.

If the person like myself fights from a chair they start out as "legged" and

cannot move  except for a few feet at a time or with assistance. this is very close to the standing rules of movement after being legged in Calon. Especially

since when holding weapons and or a shield and wearing gauntlets it is darn

ahrd to move more than a little at a time to begin with.

 

All shots to the legs or the chair from the waist down count as leg shots

against already taken legs... non-shots.

 

All shots to the backrest of the chair count as clean shots and a kill.

Unless the wheels protrude high above the seat which most dont, a wheel shot

is same as leg shot. Therefore a non-shot since you start out legged.

 

For safety sake, upon death, there is no "falling" out of chair. Sword arm

goes over head with sword tip pointing down to ground, and you "yell like

hell" that you're dead.

 

Its not a perfect system but everyone i have fought and many that has only

seen me fight approve of it in Calon as well as Ansteorra (where I am also

a warrented fighter and marshall).

 

My only limits personnaly are weapon types, for instance Greatsword and

Bastard sword and Polearm (halberd/spear) have been a pain due to being

thrown off balance when using them. But it varies greatly on the Kingdom

fighting style of such weapons. I can effectively use Halberd or spear in

Anst. where movement does not play as large a factor in the style. Unlike

Calon, where if you cant move very fast, you die quickly using such weapons.

 

Weapon systems really are not something I feel should be limited, if you can

use  a weapon safely then use it otherwise dont. Like i said above though, this varies depending on the style used to fightthe weapon.

 

Melees are a whole breed unto themselves. I have had mixed reviews on if I

should fight in melees.  But no one has said a final "no". It has to do a

lot with how I was taught to fight long ago.

1)Give no quarter, take no quarter.

2)The final authority on my personal safety and my opponents safety is me.

 

kind of odd I know but that is how we have always policed ourselves,

marshall's notwithstanding. of course this can be abused but then its a

fighters honor thing.

 

Since we do not use a counted blow system in Anst or Calon that I am aware

of I can not say how well or not it would work in my case.

 

One major problem that faces a para when fighting IS how honorable or

dishonarable an oponnent is. It is easy to corkscrew a man on his knees or

in the chair or setting on the ground into the ground. Hence rules against it in the rules of the list for everyone.

 

A spearman/ polearm or great weapn fighter can stand back and snipe, its

annoying as heck but legal to do. Honarable? IMHO...No. especially in one on one combat.  In melees, its part of the game and everyone is vulnarable to a

spearman coming at you  down the line on an angle.

 

Luckily for me I have a great bunch of guys I fight with in the Calon and

Anst. armies and to a man have never had one just set back and snipe me in

1-on-1 combat.

 

My only changes I have made thus far to any rules is trying to mandate

maximum  leg armor such as a 3/4 steel leg harness with extra padding at

thigh for a wheelchair fightrs legs. since  the thigh is perpendicular to the fight, a great or mass weapon coming down  solidly on the leg  has a good chance of snapping the thigh bone. I realized this after going  1-on-4 in a melee  at

Northern Regional Warlord in Anst. , The 4 men I was taking on were all using greatswords.

 

I also have suggested that they mandate shoulder and collar bone protection

for the same reasoning.

 

Ld. Tristan de Rochebrune

Bois d'Arc

Calontir

 

 

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:21:40 EDT

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

rovena at softdisk.com writes:

> You stated that every person should have the option of participating in

> everything.  Is that realistic?  How would a wheelchair person fight in a

> melee?  

 

There is a Tuchuk who uses a wheelchair who fights regularly in the field

battle at Pennsic.  He has a special "battle chair" which his friends

maneuver for him, and he fights from his knees.  If you have the footage from

the Today show or Amazing America (I forget which) which was shot at Pennsic

about 5 years ago, there is a picture of him in the chair before battle and

being wheeled into the fray as it starts.  At least in the Pennsic rules, and

I believe in the EK rules as well, there is a new one that states

"Wheelchairs may not be used as battering rams"...  There is also, of course,

Sir Keif of Ansteorra, who is missing a leg and fights on two crutches and

one foot.  It is my understanding that he joined the SCA, and was knighted,

after losing his leg.

 

I am a physical therapist in the mundane world.  You would be amazed (I

constantly am, even after a dozen years in the field) at the things that

people in wheelchairs and with disabilities constantly figure out ways to do.

 

I think the correct way to word this is that we shouldn't totally exclude the

possibility of someone being able to participate in something just because

a)we don't think he can or b) the current rules don't cover the adaptations

needed.  We should have open minds and try to think of ways to include as

many people as possible, without putting anyone at a level of unacceptable

risk.  It is still likely that some people will not be able to participate in

some activities other than as a knowledgable spectator (and sometimes not

even then), but at least we will have considered the options instead of

dismissing them out of hand.

 

Brangwayna Morgan

 

 

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:38:47 +1000

From: "Gwynydd of Culloden" <gwynydd_of_culloden at yahoo.com.au>

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

I am reminded of a close friend dancing with his blind girlfriend - it

was one of the simpler dances (or so I am told - I don't dance; my two

left feet are a major handicap!) and, in the bits where she had to go

back and forth, he clapped his hands so that she could find him easily.  

It seemed to work well and she enjoyed herself mightily!

 

Gwynydd

 

 

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:31:26 -0500

From: "JRMapes" <jrmapes at ckt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - special needs

 

From: "Stefan li Rous" <stefan at texas.net>

> Tristan commented:

> > Now if i could just find a way to overcome the height of those commercial

> > stoves in many of the kitchens i work in when cooking and helping cook

> > feasts ( that wouldnt be in the way of others in the kitchen).

>

> What do you do at home? Is it just the height of the stove that is the

> problem? Or that you can't reach to pots on the back burners.

 

I have no problems at home (non-commercial at home) the stove sets low

enough i can manage ok.

 

But it seems most commercial stuff is about 3 inches to 4 inches taller than

the average home appliance since there needs to be more floor clearance.

 

> What about something like the high bar stools? Could something like

> that be adapted for this? I think some have wheels if the problem is

> needing some mobility. And at the ones I've seen without wheels

> generally have seats that swivel.

 

Well without any use of my leg anything with wheels becomes a problem since

i have to grab and pull myself around and there is no contro of keeping it

steady. Taller things or chairs that raise on a 4 pt or 5pt caster system

scare me silly since i have absolutely no control whatsoever of where it

goes unless i grab hold of  something. And the swivel seats , i end up

fighting to keeo them in the corect direction or fighing them to stop when i

need the rotation to stop. its comical im sure seing me in one of those

chairs.

If my foot is off the ground im free to move oposite of where im reachhing

or exerting force and if my foot is on the ground if i lean forward the

pressure my foot exerts onthe floor pushes me away lol.

 

> I don't know your limitations or skills, so I may be way off base

> here, but this is what I can think of, right now.

 

If someone had limited usage of their feet but couldnt stand for any length

of time then I think these may work well. But without feet or the lack of

use in both or one then its a fight vs forces to be where ya want to be when

you want to be there.

 

I was in one kitchen where the reg cook must have been a short person cause

what they had done was install a modified "behind the bar" floor. Basically

a drain thru floor.

luckily it was ran from one bank of stoves over about 6 feet to the sinks

and counters.

It stood about an extra 4 inches in height just below the kick boards on the

cabnets so the doors werent interfered with. It was a slight pain getting up

on it and going donw off it but once up there i had perfect access as at

home to stoves sinks and counter tops.

I priced these overlay floors in a supply catalog i receive and they were no

cheap by any means and to get enough so that i could manuver around withpout

fear of dropping off an edge while turning around or backing up was up into

the several hundreds of dollars. Then of course would come the packing them

from site to site. it would take a pull behind utility wagon on my car to do

it cause it would be like carrying 12-15 freight pallets around. Not very

convienient.  but it would give me the room to bring all my extra cooking

gear i would like to have with me :-) Plus i suppose if i had enough i

wouldnt ever have to worry about wet floors again in my gp small tent with

or without the floor tarp lol (at camping events when they wouldn't be used

in the kitchen facilities).

But its a bit too much money to invest at the moment. I suppose temp

flooring could be built out of freight pallets but thenyou have the same

problem of hauling them and moving them around.

 

Tristan

 

> Actually some chairs like these might be of use/interest to other

> cooks here who have trouble standing for long periods.

> --

> THLord  Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad   Kingdom of Ansteorra

> Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas         stefan at texas.net

 

 

From: "Jeff Gedney" <Gedney1 at iconn.net>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] OT, OOP:  Looking for a power source

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:22:44 -0400

 

>    Phillip (my S.O., for those of you who don't know) has been

>    using a CPAP machine to help him sleep for the past 9 months

>    or so...and it has proved VERY beneficial, not only for him

>    but for me (he doesn't snore anymore!!!).  He would like to be

>    able to use it at Pennsic, but needs to find some kind of

>    battery pack to plug it in to as we don't have electricity in

>    our camp.  Any suggestions?  It would need to be 110V and run

>    for 8 - 10 hours before needing a recharge.  It would also be

>    helpful if it could recharge fully during the day...we would

>    ask the folks at Chirurgeon's Point to charge it for us.

>

>    If you have any ideas/thoughts, please let me know.

 

This problem is not that uncommon.

I have exactly the same thing myself.

The main thing you will have to consider is the pressure used...

CPAS machines with very low partial pressures like 5 mm h20 can go two nights

on one of those jumpstart battery packs with a built in 115 v plug...

My wife has a CPAP that uses such a low pressure. That is how I know.

I have a very high pressure (19 mm) and that same pack lasts me no more than

4-5 hours. It is very frustrating.

 

A lot of the people who have this problem use a car battery and a

power inverter ( you can get an inverter for about 30 dollars from

Harborfreight.com ) to turn the 12 volt DC power to a household type 115v AC

plug. The Chirurgeons point does have a power supply to charge it up (I don't know about battery chargers but I think they have one... Send a message to the

Chirurgeon in charge of the war) and they are completely familiar with the

problem. But you need to be considerate, as there will be a number of people doing the same thing, and demands for that resource are high.

 

I plan on making a battery pack using three gel-type or agm type (no-spill)

marine batteries, an inverter and plug, and a marine-type three-level

charger with charge indicator, all built into a sturdy wooden chest with

handles. It will cost me a lot of money about 500-600 dollars, but it should last the both of us all War. If I keep it properly maintained, it should work for many campouts to come. I view it as an investment.

 

Brandu

 

 

From: Elaine Ragland <er37 at columbia.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mobility Assist at Pennsic

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:11:19 -0500

Organization: Columbia University

 

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, James Koch wrote:

> I realize this is slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder how

> people with disabilities got around in the middle ages.  I believe I

> have seen a woodcut somewhere of a man in a wheelbarrow, and I have

> seen plenty of depictions of people on crutches, but that's about it.

> In Roman times of course the well to do invalids had litters.

>

> Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)

 

Dog cart or goat cart come to mind.  Think of "Porgy and Bess".  Plus,

there's nothing to say that they had to "get around."  A skilled craftsman

could easily live in the back of his shop and send his servant or

apprentice on errands.

 

The extreme poor were, of course, dependent on charity.  I think there's

an archaeological dig in London working in the cemetary of a medieval

charity hospital.  They've found several skeletons of people who hobbled

around on their knees (possibly victims of polio).  But they didn't have

to go far--they were pretty much fixtures at the hospital.

 

Elaine Ragland

aka Lady Melanie de la Tour

 

 

From: clevin at ripco.com (Craig Levin)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mobility Assist at Pennsic

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:59:41 +0000 (UTC)

 

James Koch <alchem at en.com> wrote:

>I realize this is slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder how

>people with disabilities got around in the middle ages.  I believe I

>have seen a woodcut somewhere of a man in a wheelbarrow, and I have

>seen plenty of depictions of people on crutches, but that's about it.

>In Roman times of course the well to do invalids had litters.

 

Brueghel's Battle Between Lent and Carnival shows various

disabled guys-one on crutches, one dragging himself along the

ground by means of things that look like tiny sawhorses that he's

gripping in his hands, and yet another who's stuck on a sheet.

It's at:

http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/bruegel/pieter_y/carnival.html

 

Pedro

--

http://pages.ripco.net/~clevin/index.html

clevin at ripco.com

Craig Levin                         Librarians Rule: Oook!

 

 

From: alchem at en.com (James Koch)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Mobility Assist at Pennsic

Date: 18 Dec 2003 21:23:14 -0800

 

> Brueghel's Battle Between Lent and Carnival shows various

> disabled guys-one on crutches, one dragging himself along the

> ground by means of things that look like tiny sawhorses that he's

> gripping in his hands, and yet another who's stuck on a sheet.

> It's at:

> http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/bruegel/pieter_y/carnival.html

>

> Pedro

 

Pedro,

 

Many thanks!  You actually missed describing the most important detail

of all.  If you look again at the painting you will clearly see a renaissance golf cart

"http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/b/bruegel/pieter_y/carnival.html";. So

you have actually provided documentaation.  It is in the center near

the well surrounded by fish mongers.  Just up and to the right is an

emaciated individual being pulled along in a four wheeled wooden box.

 

Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)

 

 

From: Chass Brown <chass at allegiance.tv>

Date: July 15, 2005 11:32:11 AM CDT

To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 26, Issue 50

 

      Since being placed in a wheelchair I am very vocal about this very

issue. To point out, I was very vocal with the Event stewards about

Gulfwars and how bad that site is for handicapped people. I wanted to

be able to bring my little golfcart, because it recharges alot faster

than my powerchair and wont get stuck like my powerchair. The response

from them was no, only powercairs, scooters or manual chairs, if I

didnt like it I could stay at home. It went before the BOD they decided

since their attnys backed up what I said they would blame owners of the

property after they had already admitted it was the Groups Decree not

the owners. So I mark Meridies and Gulf off my list. Since the site

rents to groups it alls under the federal guidelines that the site has

to meet min requirements. Example designated paths that are raised and

non slip. I refuse to do anything more than I already have but some day

someone will sue them and win.

 

     Any autocrat wants to know if a site is handicapped accessable. Get

a elcheapo wheelchair. Sit in it. If you as a healthy person can not

wheel yourself around the site and into all the bldgs and etc, then

what makes you think someone who is disabeled can? Ramps are a good

idea, but make sure they can handle the weight and are wide enough.

Another thing that urks me. I do not wish to have to depend upon others

for assistance. I want to be as independent as I can, telling me I have

to ask other to push me or wait on a "Taxi Service" to get me where my

powerchair can not. Also most need to know Scooters and powerchairs get

stuck SOOOOOO easy. They tend to loose traction and also the batteries

go dead quite quickly. It takes over 8 hours to charge the batteries in

my powerchair. Where as I can charge a golf carts batteries in 2 hours

and have a backup set of batteries since they use Car Batteries.

 

     I have been... Blackballed over my fight for my rights at gulf

wars. I care not if people hate me as long as I can make it a tad

better for someone else.

 

In Service of what the dream is for those in wheelchairs;

Chass aka Charinthalis Del Sans

Muddeler of Mead

 

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert and Tara Brinsfield"

<trbrins at fullnet.net>

To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:29 AM

Subject: [Ansteorra] Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 26, Issue 50

 

> Dearest Baron Bors,

>

> Thank you so much for reminding our Kingdom populace of what can be done to

> accomodate ALL paticipants. I am of the opinion that it is a most valid

> point.

 

> As for the ADA legalities. You are so right about all of that. We should

> take ALL of our glorious membership into consideration. THe problem is that

> most of those that are disabled are forgotten about due to no one speaking

> up. Another event I went to, there was a gentleman that had to get around by

> means of a motorized scooter. His cabin reservations left him way down at

> the bottom of a steep hill that was almost impassible with his motorized

> scooter. He was in the cabin next to us. He was extremely courteous and very

> kind in all of his interactions with all of us from our cabin. It was a

> shame that better accomodations was not made for him and those that were

> there with him. It is a simple matter of common courtesy. It shouldn't even

> concern legality, if we just show one of the three basic traits that I feel

> the SCA should personify. As members of the SCA, we should ALL personify

> Chivalry, Courtesy, and Honor. If we aren't doing that to our full

> capability then we delineate on the dream that our game is based off of.

> Courtesy is so important. Not just in the SCA, but in mundane life as well.

> Courtesy is the key to all of the threads that have been talked about on

> this board of late. A little common courtesy can relieve a multitude of

> problematic situations. I think we all could do well with remembering

> that, myself included, ocassionally.

>

> Anyway, that is just my opinion. I figured that since everyone else was

> sharing one, I might as well toss my two cents in too.

>

> Lady Margeurite le Chanvrierre

 

 

From: MCothren <alyxthemia at earthlink.net>

Date: February 28, 2006 5:38:46 AM CST

To: undisclosed-recipients: ;

Subject: [Ansteorra] SCA:MULTIKINGDOM: Support list for those with illnesses/physical challenges / pain...Please pass along [members from every SCA Kingdom]

 

Please Share This Information with Those in Your Area. Thank You!

 

The group [guild] this message refers to is a peer support group for SCA

folk worldwide who live with Chronic Physical Illness and Chronic Pain

Syndromes, it is also for those who love/ care for them. [ friends and

family]

 

There are scores of list members with conditions from A to Z [ illnesses

like Auto immune / Connective tissue disorders/ Fibromyalgia/ Crohn's

disease /Rheumatic disorders/ Arthritis [all types]/ Collagen Vascular

disorders/ RSD/ MS/ Carpal tunnel/ minimal brain injuries/

diabetes/Heart diseases / breathing disorders/blood disorders/ physical

infirmities/ epilepsy /  and any others not listed here ] Again, all

chronic, intractable physical illnesses / limitations and Chronic Pain

Syndromes are welcome and supported here.

 

The list  is a place to share tips and tricks for getting through the

day. It's also a place to get support [ hard to come by in the everyday

world and, sadly sometimes in our various "societies" too.] as well as a

place to learn more  about these various conditions from others who live

with them and from links to national associations for these disorders.

 

While this group is here for those with the disorders, remember it is

also here for the loved ones, friends and family of people with these

disorders as well. In my humble experience, those who support us suffer

less anxiety and frustration with more information... and I wish it to

be a place that will allow them to share their burdens as well,

hopefully helping to reduce "caregiver burnout" , and thereby aiding

them to continue aiding us down our sometimes rocky paths to a "happily

ever after".

 

Group Page Address:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AI_s/?yguid=60736636

 

Group Email Addresses

Post message:AI_s at yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: AI_s-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribe: AI_s-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

List owner: AI_s-owner at yahoogroups.com

 

** There is also a "sister" group for those not active in the SCA [in

case of "mixed" marriages or family who is not conversant in "knowne

world speak"]. If you are interested in that list it can be contacted

through < owner-AIS at yahoogroups.com >

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 08:13:10 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] On-line Pennsic Pity Party

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

> I have to wonder though, if camping as we do it will change significantly

> as our population ages. I already know a few folk who will get a  

> motel room near site and day-trip from there.

>

> 'Lainie, who really ought to be packing for Egils...

 

All it takes is an injury at a relatively young age and

moteling it becomes a necessity and not a luxury.

I can't imagine how many painkillers it would take

24/7 in order for me to be able to camp again. As it is,

I am the one who needs the handicapped parking spot at the

outdoor event. Even that tends to be a struggle, as most

autocrats never think about handicapped parking at an

outdoor event. Pennsic is an exception with a full crew devoted

to handling such things.

 

Johnnae

 

 

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:20:28 -0400

From: chawkswrth at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Jules/Catalina's Book, good bye

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

 

> What was the URL for that SCA Autism e-list again?

 

Here you go;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ExceptionalScadians/

 

It is not only for Autism. It is a list for folks who have certain  

special needs, who live with us in these Middle ages.

We have members who are speech impaired, visually impaired, hearing  

impaired, as well as with mobility problems.

 

Autism is a diagnosis that has exploded in recent years. In many  

cases, these are intelligent human beings who have problems  

functioning in and coping with the outside world the way normal  

people would. They have problems with sensory overload, and coping  

with the normal give and take of human life. The level of functioning  

can go from literally beating their heads against the wall, to the  

highest level of functioning, known as Aspberger's, where they are  

quite capable of holding good jobs, as long as they are highly  

structured. One I know is my age (50s), and a Librarian. She was  

only diagnosed about 5 years ago. The pain and anguish she went  

through.... Many times, they are thought to be several bricks short  

of a load, extraordinarly self-centered, and so on. There is a  

medication regimen that will help. It is helping her. SHe did think  

of leaving, becuase of Certain People and their treatment. It would  

have been a shame, for she does AMAZING Byzantine needlework, with  

documentation.

 

Helen

Soapbox? What soapbox?

 

 

From: Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net>

Date: March 25, 2007 8:41:24 AM CDT

To: "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us

 

I'm gonna try to keep my dander under control again this time.

 

Here is a post I made on this two years ago about this topic, which some try

to get others to provide them service under a law that many laymen don't

understand. This is followed by the corporate policy from the governing

documents on accessibility which arose from what I think were unreasonable

requests for GulfWar 2 years ago.

 

This policy explicitly sites "while preserving the fundamental nature of the

SCA event". If the SCA were to deny you a generator while allowing others,

that would be against the ADA, but keeping an isolated environment from the

outside world to immerse people in the "mood" is completely reasonable. This

is just like allowing people the use of scooters at GulfWar without allowing

them their own personal golf cart as being reasonable.

 

As well, something to keep in mind when looking at sites is another item

from the FAQ:

 

The ADA is all about reasonable access and not *total* access. For example:

 

- not all parts of a restaurant have to be accessible

 

- not all bathrooms/stalls have to be accessible

 

- not all floors of a building have to be accessible

 

As well, the section that covers what we are talking about falls under the

ADA FAQ section at:

 

What are public accommodations?

 

A. A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates,

   leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of public

   accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants,

   hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums,

   libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs

   and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III

   requirements for public accommodations.

 

Please note that many of the private areas we rent, including religious

organizations, are explicitly exempt. There are restrictions on *new*

constructions to try to ensure they are compliant but not retrofit old sites

unless required by law. Some businesses and churches will try to make

reasonable accommodations under the ADA in order to be more diverse even

when they are not required to.

 

As for events such as Gulf War and Pennsic, there are services provided by

the staff to accommodate people who need assistance such as mobility

services. The ADA is *not* about making sure that a person can do everything

themself, but that there are measures in place *if* required by the ADA. It

is also *not* about giving them the easiest choice but a reasonable choice.

 

XIII. POLICY ON ACCESSIBILITY TO SOCIETY FUNCTIONS

 

The SCA, Inc. will not discriminate against any member or participant on the

basis of race, sex, religion,

 

national origin, age or disability. The SCA, Inc. will comply with all laws

of the nation in which the meeting or

 

event is held. For any meeting or event held in the United States, the SCA,

Inc. will comply with the

 

Americans with Disabilities Act. The SCA, Inc. will provide reasonable

accommodations to qualified

 

individuals with disabilities to enable all participants to fully enjoy the

events whenever it is possible to do so.

 

The SCA, Inc. will at all times attempt to provide reasonable

accommodations, while preserving the fundamental nature of the SCA event.

 

Pug

 

 

From: Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net>

Date: March 25, 2007 8:54:20 AM CDT

To: "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA, the ADA, and all of us

 

Sorry. This got sent a tad early. The section of the FAQ is:

 

Q. Are there any limitations on the ADA's auxiliary aids requirements?

 

A. Yes. The ADA does not require the provision of any auxiliary aid that

would result in an undue burden or in a fundamental alteration in the nature

of the goods or services provided by a public accommodation.

 

This means increased financial burden is a very reasonable exclusion to a

site within the context of the SCA. A small amount may not seem like much to

many people, but we have enough problems getting people to pay the increased

site costs because of the inflation of site costs, but every hundred dollars

a site costs could increase the fee people pay by $1 and lower attendance to

the point that the group doesn't make money.

 

Pug

 

 

From: Lisa <ladyemp at sbcglobal.net>

Date: March 25, 2007 9:56:20 PM CDT

To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com

Subject: Re: link to ADA requirements for Parks and Recreation areas

 

This is the list of requirements for campgrounds also.

 

http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/checklist/a16.html

 

This first link concerns mostly buildings, but does cover any and all

buildings at all sites, including parks and recreation.

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adastd94.pdf

 

This second link covers everything regarding ADA accessibility.  There is a

section, I beleive in Title 2 that covers parks and Recreation.  If I find a

specific link, I'll forward it to you.

 

Elizabeta of Rundel

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:38:20 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] How was Pennsic?

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

On the runabouts...

 

One of my campmates got run over by one. No, really. Sounds funnier than it is....it put him out of commission for a bit.

 

If you use a motorized scooter, PLEASE be careful with it....same as a car.

 

--Anne-Marie

 

-----Original Message-----

On Behalf Of Susan Lin

 

I believe there were a lot more of those "runabouts" this year than in past

and there are places to recharge batteries (right new Outland Royal/Your

Inner Vagabon).  People seem to get around quite nicely with those although

I didn't see any of them try to go through one of the mud pits.  As long as

you stay on the main roads that would work and she wouldn't be at the mercy

of the buses or disability services.

 

-S

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:20 -0500

From: "Chass Brown" <charinthalis at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Service Animal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Helena that is not true any establishment or place of public accomidation

(yes the sca is a place of public accomidation) are entitled to ask 3

questions:

 

1) Are you disabled (note not able to ask the reason your disabled)?

2) Is that a service Animal?

3) What tasks does he perform to mitigate your disability? (also note doesnt

give them right to decide if task is good enough sample answers guide

animal, seizure alert animal, mobility assist, hearing alert animal, but if

you hear things like he helps me with my depression or he calms me down

those are emotional support animals and not covered by the ADA which is

where service animals are allowed).

 

I would honestly ask about the service cat. There is not honest proof of

service animals, well over 90% are owner trained. They do not have to have

certification (is against the law to actually ask for that). Service animals

are viewed as durable medical equipment. also falsly claiming an animal as a

service animal is against the law and is a fineable offense.

 

Chass who is Wheelchair bound but not bound to give up

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Martha Sieting" <osermart at msu.edu>

<<< However, I think I remember seeing in the Pennsic rules somewhere that

horses are specifically prohibited (Though my memory may be faulty, and I'm

sure someone will issue a correction if necessary.)

 

-Helena >>>

 

 

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:20:27 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pensic Mobility Options

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Bjorn Magnusson Esping, Baron Namron, had burro's head on the front of his

mobility scooter.  He referred to his iron beast as Donkey Oatey.

 

Bear

 

<<< you will not be alone at Pennsic - I saw a woman with a horse on the front

of her chair this year. >>>

 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Chass Brown

<charinthalis at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

 

I decided I must .... fancy up my powerchair... so I am decking it out to

look like a chariot.. including hobby horses in the front. Since I am

roman by personna lol...

 

Chass

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:56:58 -0600

From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Service Animal

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<< So how does one prove the claim is false if one is not allowed to ask why

the animal is needed or for proof of service?

 

-Helena >>>

 

One of our usual sites for events admits service animals only.  I called and

asked how they verify it.  Our wonderful site owner said they first look for

the working service animal vest.  They also notice whether the owner is

visibly disabled, and if the animal stays either leashed or close to the

owner.  No puppies or kittens or birds.  This is indoors, and by and large

they prefer the service animals not go into the kitchen.

 

Aldyth

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:44:58 -0500

From: "Chass Brown" <charinthalis at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Service Animal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Diabetic alert animals are still not recognized by SCOTUS (Supreme Court of

the United States) as service animals yet but we are not giving up :). It

was a year and a half ago they finally realized Siezure alert animals should

be covered. Also be careful how you try to represent a dog... if you claim

its a service animal and you get challenged and the cops called and it

doesn't fit the criteria they can fine the heck out of you and drag you

before court. I am one who thinks ESA (emotional Support animals) should be

covered by the ADA I feel they provide a valid service. Scotus does not yet

though.

 

Chass

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:50:20 -0500

From: "Chass Brown" <charinthalis at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Service Animal

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

Another area you don't have to dress your animal.. I do when he is out

working due to the fact he has greater protections under state law.

Interfering with a service animal is a major offense. As to how one judges

from another post.. its a judgment call to be frank. One could always look

up the proper skills for a service animal... and when in doubt pass the buck

up the chain for them to decide. We have a lady here with a Chi dog... this

dog wears a service dog vest.. and rides on her shoulder everywhere... when

you ask her what he does.. he helps her husband with depression (note this

dog is a ESA not a service animal) but I have never ever seen her husband

around or him with this dog. Tis just an excuse for her to bring her pet to

events. My Pyr is trained to unstick my chair.. go for help.. provide

transfer assistance and quite a few other tasks. Love my bear dog :). When

someone submits the answer he helps with depression, or any feeling you know

its not covered.

 

Chass

 

<<< One of our usual sites for events admits service animals only.  I called and

asked how they verify it.  Our wonderful site owner said they first look for

the working service animal vest.  They also notice whether the owner is

visibly disabled, and if the animal stays either leashed or close to the

owner.  No puppies or kittens or birds.  This is indoors, and by and large

they prefer the service animals not go into the kitchen.

Aldyth >>>

 

 

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:42:34 -0500

From: "Lisa" <ladyemp at sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Service Animal

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

 

<<< So how does one prove the claim is false if one is not allowed to ask why

the animal is needed or for proof of service?

 

-Helena >>>

 

There's the crux.... Most of it is attributable to common sense, something

that seems to be very lacking in this day and age *sigh* Legally, service

animals do not have to be dressed or otherwise identified as service animals

by a vest or patch.  Having said that, most people who use service animals

will typically dress or somehow identify their animal as a service animal to

minimize confrontations.  Unfortunately, the fakes also prefer to

dress/patch their animals for the same reason.  Most times, the disability

is obvious, or the gear the animal wears gives it away, for example, the

harness with a handle used on guide dogs.  The best way to identify a

service animal is to observe it for a period of time.  A true service animal

will be observing and attending to their handler and ignoring everything

around it, unless it's duties require it to be alert to the environment

around it (guide dog or hearing dog).  Also, a handler of a service animal

who knows that they are legally entitled to a service animal will fight

being turned away the majority of the time, a fake who is trying to pass off

a pet as a service animal will not risk confrontation if turned away,

because they know that they are not legally entitled to what they are

claiming.  Another good sign of a service animal is training.  A service

animal typically has exceptional behavior, and makes itself as unobtrusive

as possible.  It's rare to see a service animal act out, bark (unless it's

alerting to something and that's it's trained response) or have an accident

in a public place.  Any service animal that growls or snaps at anyone would

be retired by a responsible handler and can be removed from the premises

legally due to aggressive behavior.  

 

Elizabeta

 

<the end>



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