blacks-msg - 1/16/05
Blacks in medieval Europe.
NOTE: See also the files: Africa-msg, Africa-lnks, Ethiopia-art, Italy-msg, Moors-msg, Gypsies-msg, Jews-msg, pirates-msg, Congo-art.
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From: Ron Charlotte <roncharlotte at delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: minorities & anachronisms
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 22:45:10 -0500
Solveig Throndardottir -- nostrand at bayes.math.yorku.ca (Barbara
Nostrand) wrote:
>Further, there really were black Africans living independently in
>Europe and Caucasians living in Africa during SCA period.
She's absolutely right, in fact my few lingering doubts about
my participation in this thing of ours were finally banished when
I encountered a painting of Alessandro de Medici (1511-1537), the
son of Giulio de Medici (who became Pope Clement VII), and Duke of
Florence (unpopular, but Duke nonetheless). He was about as dark
as myself.
I figured at that point; if this man could be born
(legitimately or not) into a family as prominent as the de Medici,
then the odds were pretty good that Black people, while not
common, were in Europe enough to be very much a part of the
population. This made my persona as the son of a Persian soldier
and a Sudanese woman, dwelling in Tuscany due to being displaced
by the conquests of Castile and Aragon, suddenly "jell", and I
found the era and garb that I find most appealing. As I've
remarked before, since then, I've been gradually hunting down
period documentation of Africans in Europe.
Truth be told, the racial aspect isn't something that I dwell
on much, beyond my academic curiosity; long ago, the Society
became a place where I found an extended "family" of really great
minds to interact with.
So, If you've encountered any such documentation on the
subject of "modern day minorities" in period, drop me a note.
Given sufficient time, I'll Interlibrary loan it.
al Thaalibi -- An Crosire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- roncharlotte at delphi.com or
afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu
From: cmwalden at bga.com (Antonio Bastiano)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Minorities in the SCA
Date: 13 Dec 1994 05:48:12 GMT
In article <3circd$9g7 at jabba.cybernetics.net>, achbar at cybernetics.net (James Morrow) says:
>
> "Why are there so few Black people in the SCA?"
I couldn't answer to that. Perhaps the concept of raising up the European
ethic is not very politically correct.
I do know that the game that I play, rapier, is strongly influenced by
the work of a black man in a book which he called "Les Trois
Mousketaires" (sp?).
Antonio Bastiano
Bryn Gwlad, Ansteorra.
or
cmwalden at bga.com
From: sclark at blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Carroll-Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Temporary Persona OOP Problem
Date: 26 Jun 1995 02:45:19 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Thanks to a rather resourceful lady in my canton, folks in Eoforwic
tend to know something about folks of African descent in the Middle Ages.
She's taken a late 15th century Portugeuse freedwoman persona herself, and
from what I remember, it would not have been odd to see blacks
anywhere in the Iberian peninsula (not just slaves, btw) and also in Italy
(though not to the same extent). For the most part, we're talking Renaissance
times--15th and 16th century. You could also choose to be from the
Arab world (Moorish or more Baghdad-type Arabia), Egypt (not ancient Egypt),
or my favorite--Constantinople, where folks from virtually everywhere could
be found.
Based on what Ines has told me, do expect to get a few questions
about why you are interested in "white guys' history (from others of African
descent), and if you opt for a non-obvious (ie Moorish) persona to get a
number of somewhat sloppily worded inquiries as to why you picked what
you did. There just aren't a lot of huge books devoted to people of African
descent in Medieval and Renaissance Europe, and some people take this
to mean that there weren't any at all.
When it comes down to a final decision, pick a persona that interests
you and that you'll have fun researching. I've seen Italian Vikings, blond
Mongols, and all other sorts of interesting persona combinations over
the years.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
sclark at epas.utoronto.ca
From: jkrissw at cinenet.net (J. Kriss White)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Temporary Persona OOP Problem
Date: 26 Jun 1995 07:06:02 GMT
Organization: Cinenet Communications,Internet Access,Los Angeles;310-301-4500
David Sanders (ae766 at yfn.ysu.edu) wrote:
: In a previous article, DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman) says:
: >There is no rule requiring your persona to match your physical appearance.
: >My own view is that choosing a persona consistent with your physical
: >appearance is usually a good idea, since it makes it that much easier to do
: >a convincing job of being your persona, but it is entirely up to you
: >whether you want to follow that advice; lots of people don't.
: Once at Pennsic I met a Black woman in full Elizabethan -- absolutely
: stunning!
: Vajk
: ae766 at yfn.ysu.edu
Actually, I recall reading somewhere that there was a significant free
black (African merchant) presence in English seaports during Elizabeth's
reign, something deduced that there were no less than three expulsion
orders for them on the behalf of English merchants who thought they were
being undercut. :)
(considerably after the period of)
Daveed of Granada
From: nqf2312 at is2.nyu.edu (Norman J. Finkelshteyn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: African-European personae
Date: 1 Aug 1995 05:14:18 GMT
Organization: New York University
Kristine E. Maitland (bq676 at torfree.net) wrote:
: I have read journal articles and books on sixteenth century Africans in the
: British Isles, Portugal and Spain. I have checked Russian history texts
: (as far as I can tell, black Africans were not seen in Russia until the
: mid 18th century... i could be wrong here).
The Russian poet Alexander Pushkin is reputed to have been part African.
his family history may be a good place to look if you've an interest in
Russians and Africans.
Nahum
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)
Subject: Re: accents (WAS: Being in Persona)
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:45:44 GMT
I just thought I'd add a note. My persona is a Black freedwoman from
Portugal and it has been my want to sing in the language of my country.
As I have discovered, singing in Portuguese is FAR from easy. But I
discovered an interesting bit of information not too long ago: black
women in Portugal for my period (circa 16th cen.) spoke in a heavy
dialect to the point where most Portuguese could not understand a word of
it. I "visualise" this as the difference between Jamaican dialect and
"the Queen's English".
Just a note
Ines Carmen Maria de Freitas
From: afn03234 at afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: West African (was women in combat)
Date: 28 Oct 1995 12:14:22 GMT
kolsoft (kolsoft at inlink.com) wrote:
: In article <46miqv$ctv at huron.eel.ufl.edu>, afn03234 at afn.org says...
: >
: >The Kingdom of Congo had extensive and fairly tight contacts with
: >Portugal in the 1500's. At least initially, the King of Portugal treated
: >the King of Congo as an equal. A significant number of the Congoese
: >travelled to Portugal for education, and one of the sons of the Congo
: >king became a Bishop of the Church (albiet with little actual authority).
: >
: The Almoravids had Hausa troops when they crossed the Straits of Gibraltar in
: 1170(?). The Christians had never seen anything like them- dark, dark skin,
: hippo-hide shields, and war drums that could communicate orders across huge
: battlefields. I don't know how many actually stayed in Iberia after the
: fighting, but there were certainly black slaves in Muslim and Christian
: households.
Even in the original conquest, there were black soldiers among the
conquering Moslems. In illustrations from illuminated manuscripts of the
era, there are pretty clearly Negro features on some of the moslem
horsemen and footsoldiers. The clearest illustrations tho' are from the
13th c. _Cantigas of Alfonso X_ which has oodles of well rendered
miniatures.
--
al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn03234 at freenet.ufl.edu
From: lsteele at mtholyoke.edu (Lisa Steele)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Black Personas
Date: 20 Jan 1996 14:22:14 GMT
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
As a note, the UNESCO's General History of Africa, vols. 3-4 has some
excellent essays on the various 9-15C African kingdoms and empires.
--Esclarmonde
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)
Subject: Authenticity issues
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 14:54:01 GMT
Buon giorno, tutti!
[note: I am NOT saying that black people HAVE to play black personas --
heck I have a Japanese persona on the works...]
I think that I'm going to have to bring up an issue that I discussed at
length some months ago, if only to provide a different perspective on
this whole issue of authenicity in the S.C.A.
I am a black woman. I play a black female persona. However, due to
present social mores I have my persona to suit. I hate to repeat myself
but the research is plain (and I can provide sources up to my armpits --
and have on several occassion) -- black women attaining noble status is
EXTREMELY rare. I'd had many learned people on this bridge mention this
body and that person -- but I pointed out then, they were ALL male.
Black women, in general, were slaves. Freedwomen had the following
occupations: huskster, innkeeper, prostitute/cortesan, lady's maid
(though generally, black ladies maids were slaves with the occasional
exception in Scotland and England). I know of two black lady's maids who
married well -- but they were both mulatto and they both ended up in the
New World.
The above applies to Europe. The Islamic world (excluding sub-saharan
Africa) is not much better: black women were almost always slaves --
there are next to no references to FREE black women (except for the
occasional innkeeper or owner of a whore house in Egypt). There was ONE
black regent in Egypt in the 14th (? I'd have to check) century. She had
been a slave too... then there's the occasional free performer.
So, as you can see, when playing a black female persona my options have
limits. When you do black female persona you often have to truly be
anachronistic. I cannot be a slave persona -- even though some black
female slaves did quite while (Scotland and England come to mind). That
I play a black courtesan in (ren. Italy currently) is anachronistic --
there were relatively few black women in italy for the period (the stats
show that the majority of slaves in Italy were white and that black men
out numbered black women 10 to 1). All the black women on record were
slaves. There is no reference to FREE black courtesans or prostitutes in
ITaly in period -- and I've checked the Italian resources as well.
My point. There HAS to be some give and take as far as accuracy goes.
This is not to say that we cannot point out errors (I have to do it all
the time as far as perceptions of blacks in period goes) -- but we can do
it in a way that is not accusatory. Saying that,"I read that...what do
you think" is much better than, "You're garb's wrong".
We can learn and have fun at the same time without getting at other
people's throats.
musing
Ines Carmen Maria de Freitas
From: "Maureen S. O'Brien" <mobrien at dnaco.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: African-Europeans in period -- illo
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 00:04:10 -0800
Organization: Dayton Network Access Company
First, everyone in the SCA should get a close look at "The Medieval
Woman Illuminated Calendar" put out by Workman. It has many excellent
enlargements of interesting details, and each month covers a different
subject.
Anyway, the month of August has a picture of a lady of African heritage.
She's in the small picture at the top left of the lower page of the
month. The book she's from is _Les Secrets de l'histoire naturelle
contenant les merveilles et choses me/morables du monde._, and I think
I see a beast in the woods behind the ladies. The black lady seems to
be telling another lady not to whimper, but YMMV. I like her outfit
and hat very much.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)
Subject: Abid -- black military
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:05:43 GMT
Now on to the business of blacks in the military. I'm going to quote
directly here:
from J. O. Hunwick. "Blacks in the Mediterranean World: introduction to a
Neglected Aspect of the African Diaspora." in _Slavery and Abolition: a
journal of comparative studies_ 13:1 (April 1992)
"Black slave troops were first introduced into Egypt during the period of
the Turkish governor, Ahmad b. Tulun (868-84)...In the following century,
the Ikhshidids, sucessors to the Tulunids, also employed black troops,
while under their successors, the Fatamids (969-1171), large battalions
of black troops were raised to counterbalance the powerful Berber and
Turkish contingents...on several occasions the Turks and Berbers united
against the blacks. In the final and greatest clash (1169) an estimated
50 000 black troops fought valiantely against their hostile collegues in
arms before being defeat and driven out of Cairo to seek refuge in
southern Egypt. The Fatimids successors, the Ayyubids, did not revive
the tradition of using black troops..."
"In North Africa and Andalusia both African and European slave troops
were used, the Africans being called by the generic name _sudan_
(blacks)... Black troops were first used under the Aghlabid dynasty of
Ifriqiya (roughly modrn Tunisia) in the ninth century...The need here, as
with Turks in Bagdad and blacks in Egypts at a similar period, was to
counteract the potentially rebellious tendiencies of local troops by
created a corps with had no local attachments and which was made up of
men who owed their very existance to the ruler and hence whose loyalty
could be counted on..."
"In the 'farther Maghrib' (roughly modern Morocco), black troops are not
in evidence until the reign of the Alomoravid ruler Yusuf b. Tashfin
(1061-1106) who established a bodyguard of some two thousand, as well as
a corps of European slave troops recruited in Spain. The Almoravids's
successors, the Almohads, also made use of black troops to a limited
extent..."
At a later date, I can tell you about the Battle of the Zanj...
Inez Rosanera
Ealdormere
From: afn03234 at freenet2.afn.org (Ronald L. Charlotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Foreigners in Lisbon c. 1500
Date: 23 Feb 1997 14:01:39 GMT
In <5ef2c4$ho at usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, jesst2+ at pitt.edu (Julia E Smith)
wrote:
> Certainly Portugal had been in contact with sub-Saharan Africa for some
> time. Do we have any sense of the extent of the slave trade? Did free
> blacks come as well?
The Portuguese actually had an on-again, off-again relationship with the
African Kingdom of Congo beginning in 1480s. People like Manuel I of
Portugal tried to curb the european's urge to take slaves, and there was
a fairly large amount of travel between the two kingdoms. Many of the
children of the Congo nobility were educated in Portugal (one of the
Congo King's sons became a bishop). In the end, the attempt to
Christianize the Congo failed and the greed of the europeans accelerated
the black slave trade.
There was a pretty cordial period, though, between 1491 and 1529.
--
al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn03234 at afn.org
From: jarnott at sallie.wellesley.edu (Jennifer C. Arnott)
Newsgroups: soc.history.living,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Blacks in Renaissance Italy
Date: 29 AUG 97 18:02:41 GMT
Organization: Wellesley College
Regarding blacks in Renaissance Italy:
I took a seminar on Renaissance Florence last semester, and as part of the
course work, we had to pick articles dealing with various subject areas.
One of the ones I read had to do with slavery in Florence, which, if I
remember correctly <and I might not, as this was last spring, and I don't
have any of my notes from that segment of class handy> was in its prime
between 1450ish and 1530. The slaves were principally from Turkey and
Eastern Europe - but from non-Christian areas or groups <there were laws
against enslaving Christians>
However, many of them also came from Northern Africa. Slaves were most
commonly young women <9-12 years old> who would be bought as nursemaids/
maids of all work - and yes, they would sometimes be concubines for the son
of the house. <Sons, even...>
It was not *incredibly* uncommon for these slaves - especially the women -
to be released from slavery when their charges were grown, given a small
lump sum,and left on their own. On the other hand, they were also often
favourite family retainers...
It was also pointed out that although the slaves *were* exposed to physical
violence, it was at about the same level that the children of the family
were - in other words,