Wales-msg - 1/3/05
Welsh culture. avail. newsletters. Book recommendations. Welsh food. Welsh clothing.
NOTE: See also the files: fd-Wales-msg, England-msg, fd-Celts-msg, books-food-msg, languages-msg, Roman-Wales-bib.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
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Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: 70531.1217 at compuserve.com (EMRYS)
Date: 28 Nov 89 01:26:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Maelon ap Cirdan, Bard of Griffenwald, asked for some
suggestions of books about Wales (stories and mythology)... I
know this is a long time, but I've only just found out that I've
been busily posting to the wrong address and my previous replies
have been vanishing into the ether (not the net). Since I've not
seen anyone else respond, I'll try again...
First off, it might simplify your search to know that the
stories you are working with ARE the mythology of Wales.
Here's some suggestions:
The Four Ancient Books of Wales; William F. Skene
Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race; T.W. Rolleston
Folklore of the British Isles; Elenor Hull
The White Goddess; Robert Graves
Women of the Celts; Jean Markale
A Celtic Miscellany; Kenneth Jackson
Origin and Growth of Religion (Celtic Heathendom); John Rhys
The Mystic Arts in Celtic Britain; Charles Squire
Celtic Myth and Legend; Charles Squire
The Mysteries of Britain; Lewis Spence
Celtic Mysteries; John Sharkey
Celtic Wonder Tales; Ella Young
Battles and Enchantments; Norreys Jephson O'Conor
Celtic Heritage; Alwyn and Brinley Rees
Fairy Faiths in Celtic Countries; Evans-Wentz
The Golden Bough; James Frazer
As I have discussed with Arval in the past, I've found that
Cymric mythology tends to be harder to pin down than, say,
Irish. I expect this is due to the ...civilizing... influence of
all those ...visitors... to our lands (The winners always get to
write the history books, don't you know). I have also found that
different sources will very often contradict each other on
specific references, or a reference will only appear in one source,
with no corroboration. Because of this, I have to caution; if you can find
three or four separate sources that all agree on a particular
reference, then there is a reasonably good chance that this
reference might be fairly close to the truth. ...Keep this in
mind as you begin your research.
-Lord Emrys y Crwydryn
Welsh Longbow Punk
Occassional Bard to the Court of Baroness Elspeth of Bridge
Unobtrusive Druid
(Emrys Atkinson Compuserve 70531.1217)
From: jamesm at sco.COM (James M. Moore)
Date: 6 Dec 89 04:09:56 GMT
Organization: An tOibriu Santa Cruz
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
(Beth ydy "Cynfeirdd?" Does dim yn y Geiriadur Mawr...)
First on the list of critical reading is the Mabinogion. The two most
recent editions that I'm aware of are:
Ford, Patrick. The Mabinogi and Other Medieval Welsh Tales.
University of California Press, 1977. [Available in
paperback]
Includes:
Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed
Branwen Daughter of Llyr
Manawydan son of Llyr
Math son of Mathonwy
Lludd and Lleuelys
Culhwch and Olwen
The Tale of Gwion Bach and the Tale of Taliesin
Cad Goddeu [Battle of the Trees]
Gantz, Jeffrey. The Mabinogion. Dorset Press, 1976.
Includes:
Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed
Branwen Daughter of Llyr
Manawydan son of Llyr
Math son of Mathonwy
Dream of Maxen
Lludd and LLevelys
How Culhwch Won Olwen
Dream of Rhonabwy
Owein, or the Countess of the Fountain
Peredur Son of Evrawg
Gereint and Enid
Also available is:
Jones, Gwyn, and Jones, Thomas. The Mabinogion. Dent, 1984.
This is invaluable for attempting to read the original manuscripts,
as it's a very literal translation of the material. It's drawback is
the same as it's feature - if you aren't translating, I would not
choose this as my first exposure to Welsh, as it's written in very
stilted, formal, almost Victorian English.
If you're interested in reading the original, your essential companion
is:
Evans, D. Simon. A Grammar of Middle Welsh. Dublin Institute for
Advanced Studies, 1976.
Be warned that this is what the title says: a grammar. It's not a
Middle Welsh tutorial. Trying to learn Welsh from this would be like
learning C from K & R Appendix A.
The dictionary is:
Evans and Thomas, Y Geiriadur Mawr. Gwasg Gomer, Llandysul, 1986.
(Welsh - English and English - Welsh sections.)
I also suggest the introduction from:
Thomson, R. L. Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuet. Dublin Institute for Advanced
Studies, 1980.
Try reading through some of the Welsh with Jones and Jones open to the
same page. 'Pwyll' (all of the Dublin Institue series, acutally) has
a fairly complete vocabulary. Be warned, though, that one of the
fundamental parts of a Celtic language is initial mutation, and
consonants at the beginning of a word are not reliable. For example,
the word for Wales is Cymru. But 'to Wales' is 'i Gymru,' and 'in
Wales' is 'yng Nghymru.' All of these would be in the dictionary only
under Cymru; you just have to know which mutation is taking place.
(It's not like Irish, where you keep the original letter and just add
to it.)
Hwyll,
James Moore | Nil aon .sig maith agam anois -
Santa Cruz Operation UNIX Tech Support | B'fheidir an tseachtaine seo
jamesm at sco.com | chugainn.
From: DICKSNR%QUCDN.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU ("Ross M. Dickson")
Date: 9 Dec 89 00:24:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Greetings unto those upon the Rialto from Sarra Graeham, through the good
services of her husband, Angus:
To change the subject considerably, all this talk about Welshness and re-
ferences for Welsh stories, etc. has reminded me that there are a lot of
Welsh personas out there. I always, whenever it is within my power, try to
do scrolls for people according to their personas, but Welsh calligraphy
and manuscripts are devilishly difficult to get references on, mostly be-
cause the Welsh never did really flashy manuscript work; they were, as a
nation, much too poor.
I have, however, found two fairly good books on the subject. Both are
rather ancient (a good researcher really ought to be at least a little sus-
picious of any reference dated before 1960, because the field of medieval
studies took a radical turn right about then), but have quite a few facsim-
ile pages, which never become dated.
Lindsay, Wallace M., _Early Welsh Script_, J.Parker & Co., 1917.
Denholm-Young, Noel, _Handwriting in England and Wales_, University
of Wales Press, Cardiff, 1954.
In general, the Welsh were at least a hundred years in development behind
the rest of the British Isles, which were almost that far behind the conti-
nent. For a Welsh persona prior to about 1200, the Insular Majescule and
Miniscule hands of the Irish and Anglo-Saxons are appropriate, with less
embellishment. In the 13th Century, they started to develop a very ideo-
syncratic hand (those Welsh always had to be different :-) based on Gothic.
It is an extremely beautiful script, written with a thick nib on a backwards
slant and with very few serifs, but they had virtually no illumination to
go along with it, maybe a simple, one-colour capital at the beginning of a
division of text. When done well, I think that this style would make a
lovely AoA for a Welsh persona.
Sarra Graeham, Canton of Greyfells | Heather Fraser
Crown Principality of Ealdormere | Kingston, ON, CANADA
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Date: 13 Dec 91 18:52:31 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Greetings from Arval! I recommend to your attention "The Brothers of
Gwynedd Quartet," by Edith Pargeter. This book, available in soft-cover,
is a collection of four novels recounting the life of Llywelyn ap Griffith,
Prince of Wales, and his wars with England, his involvement with the
Baron's Revolt, and his efforts to unify Wales. It is a fictional account,
from the point of view of his personal secretary, but Pargeter has brought
the period to life with her normal skill and excellent research. Pargeter
also writes as Ellis Peters, and is the author of the Brother Cadfael
mysteries.
The four books in the quartet are available separately, but there's
something lovely about having them all in one volume, and being able to
read through without pause to find the next book.
Arval.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?
From: eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith)
Date: 23 Jul 93 10:37:02 EST
Organization: NASA/KSC
betel at camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) wrote:
> Well, after hanging around the SCA relatively passively for a
> year, I've decided to get more involved. My first order is persona
> research...
>
> I've decided on late 11th, early 12th century Wales. I've done
> some research, and have a good idea of the social structure and the
> political goings-on of the period. Now I need to find information on
> clothing, diet, and so on.
>
> Could anyone steer me towards some good sources? I'm also
> looking for names. :-)
'A Journey Through Wales' and 'A Description of Wales' by Gerald of Wales,
Geraldus Cambrensus?. The first book was written in the late 12th century
and chronicles a trip the Gerald made with the then Bishop of Cantebury,
can't recall his name, for the purpose of recruiting welsh folk for the
crusades. There are some real good first hand observations.
Gerald was Welsh/Norman by birth, and tried to live in both worlds.
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* Eric C. Smith | |Lord Maredudd Cymysglyd ap Cynan *
* NASA/DL-ESS-21 | |Kingdom of Trimaris *
* Kennedy Space Center FL, 32899| |Shire Starhaven,Hospitaler *
* eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov | |Poet Laureate, Trimaris *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 15:28:43 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research
> I've decided on late 11th, early 12th century Wales... Could anyone
> steer me towards some good sources? I'm also
> 'A Journey Through Wales' and 'A Description of Wales' by Gerald of Wales
Excellent suggestions, Maredudd. These are available in translation from
Penguin Books.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: steffan at world.std.com (Steven H Mesnick)
Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1993 05:30:23 GMT
Yes, if you're contemplating a Welsh persona, start with Geraldus Cambrensis
and the Mabinogion. I also recommend anything by Mistress Keridwen ferch
Morgan Glasfryn, who has written much on Welsh persona-development, including
articles in Heraldic Symposia Proceedings, a recent Compleat Anachronist,
and publishes a journal of Welsh persona-development called Y Camamseriad.
Unfortunately I don't have her address at hand at the moment, but I'm sure
*someone* on this bridge does.
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh word
Date: 22 Oct 1993 15:44:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
<bilyji at rpi.edu> wrote:
>Can anyone tell me the Welsh word for badger?
Ever heard of the heraldic term "brock" used for badgers? Well, they borrowed
it from Welsh. The Welsh word is "broch" (pronounced with a "hard" ch, as in
Scottish "loch"). It's a particularly ancient word, appearing as part of
compound given names as early as some Gaulish examples. (The name "Brochfael"
means "great badger".)
> A friend of mine wants to know and neither of us have Welsh>English
>dictionaries. Which brings up the next question, is there such an item?
Certainly there is such an item. How much money do you want to spend?
The standard Welsh/English dictionary (which runs around $30 as I recall
is the "Geiriadur Mawr" ("Big Dictionary") ISBN 0-85088-462-4 or
0-7154-0543-8 (don't ask my why it has two listed). The Cadillac model is
the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru (University of Wales Dictionary) which is set
up along the lines of the OED, costs several hundred dollars and has only
been issued through Ll at this point.
> Can anyone recommend a good method of learning Welsh?
Spoken or literary? There are several reasonable tape courses for the former.
For the latter, I'm rather fond of the original "Teach Yourself Welsh" book
(ISBN 0-340-05829-3) but you may have to find it in a second-hand store at
this point.
> I give unto thee my thanks for thine assistance.
> -Elkor ap Gregorson.
>
For more details, e-mail me privately and I'll deluge you with information.
Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn; West, Mists, Mists
Heather Rose Jones hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Call for Welsh Research
Date: 28 Oct 1993 14:58:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
I'm looking for articles to publish in my annual journal of Welsh
research ("Y Camamseriad"). Virtually any subject is fair game as
long as it has a Welsh connection, falls within the SCA period,
and is well-researched. I'm especially interested in research
with a practical application. I'm also looking for book reviews,
special-subject bibliographies, original prose and poetry in
Welsh styles, and art. Reprints cheerfully accepted. No length
limitations (published articles have ranged from one to eighty
pages). My deadline for submissions is around June, so there's no
particular hurry, but I'd love to hear queries from interested
parties. If you have a subject but few resources, I may be able
to help you with research materials or at least reading lists.
e-mail me at hrjones.uclink.berkeley.edu
Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ral at netcom.com (Rebecca LeDock)
Subject: Libraries with Welsh collections
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 01:24:22 GMT
I am currently scouring Net catalogs of libraries containing collections
of materials on Wales. I have many library addresses; but would like to
concentrate first on those libraries known to have large collections of
Welsh materials. I an already working on all libraries in Wales
including the National Library of Wales. I have also completed the
collections of the Universities of Wales, Wisconsin (Madison), Michigan
(Ann Arbor), Harvard and Princeton. as well as most of the University
System of Georgia and Florida, and the Bryn Mawr-Swarthmore Colleges.
Are there schools (or on-line public libraries) out there with large
collections that I should hit next?
This is not an idle project; I publish a bibliography of books of
interest to SCA-ers on Wales, and one on Scotland. The Wales
bibliography is available to anyone interested; e-mail me with your
address for a copy. Since it is currently 87 pages (8 point Helvetica;
double columns, it comes U.S. Post Office.
Baroness Rebecca of Twywn
Barony of the South Downs, Meridies
ral at netcom.com
From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Libraries with Welsh collections
Date: 29 Oct 1994 06:13:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Rebecca LeDock (ral at netcom.com) wrote:
: I am currently scouring Net catalogs of libraries containing collections
: of materials on Wales. I have many library addresses; but would like to
...
: Are there schools (or on-line public libraries) out there with large
: collections that I should hit next?
Definitely check out the UC Berkeley library. The on-line catalog isn't
entirely complete -- I keep running into books on the shelves that aren't
in it -- but it's a start. We probably have the biggest collection of
Welsh material in this half of the continent.
: This is not an idle project; I publish a bibliography of books of
: interest to SCA-ers on Wales, and one on Scotland. The Wales
: bibliography is available to anyone interested; e-mail me with your
: address for a copy. Since it is currently 87 pages (8 point Helvetica;
: double columns, it comes U.S. Post Office.
Is it available in electronic format?
Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn
From: Heather Rose Jones (1/9/95)
To: Mark Harris
RE>novice mundane historian needs help!
> My persona is not Welsh, but if you have an overview I'd love to see