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Welsh culture. avail. newsletters. Book recommendations. Welsh food. Welsh clothing.

 

NOTE: See also the files: fd-Wales-msg, England-msg, fd-Celts-msg, books-food-msg, languages-msg, Roman-Wales-bib.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: 70531.1217 at compuserve.com (EMRYS)

Date: 28 Nov 89 01:26:00 GMT

Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

    Maelon ap Cirdan, Bard of Griffenwald, asked for some

suggestions of books about Wales (stories and mythology)... I

know this is a long time, but I've only just found out that I've

been busily posting to the wrong address and my previous replies

have been vanishing into the ether (not the net). Since I've not

seen anyone else respond, I'll try again...

    First off, it might simplify your search to know that the

stories you are working with ARE the mythology of Wales.

    Here's some suggestions:

 

The Four Ancient Books of Wales;  William F. Skene

Myths and Legends of the Celtic Race; T.W. Rolleston

Folklore of the British Isles; Elenor Hull

The White Goddess; Robert Graves

Women of the Celts; Jean Markale

A Celtic Miscellany; Kenneth Jackson

Origin and Growth of Religion (Celtic Heathendom); John Rhys

The Mystic Arts in Celtic Britain; Charles Squire

Celtic Myth and Legend; Charles Squire

The Mysteries of Britain; Lewis Spence

Celtic Mysteries; John Sharkey

Celtic Wonder Tales; Ella Young

Battles and Enchantments; Norreys Jephson O'Conor

Celtic Heritage; Alwyn and Brinley Rees

Fairy Faiths in Celtic Countries; Evans-Wentz

The Golden Bough; James Frazer

 

    As I have discussed with Arval in the past, I've found that

Cymric mythology tends to be harder to pin down than, say,

Irish. I expect this is due to the ...civilizing... influence of

all those ...visitors... to our lands (The winners always get to

write the history books, don't you know). I have also found that

different sources will very often contradict each other on

specific references, or a reference will only appear in one source,

with no corroboration. Because of this, I have to caution; if you can find

three or four separate sources that all agree on a particular

reference, then there is a reasonably good chance that this

reference might be fairly close to the truth. ...Keep this in

mind as you begin your research.

 

-Lord Emrys y Crwydryn

    Welsh Longbow Punk

    Occassional Bard to the Court of Baroness Elspeth of Bridge

    Unobtrusive Druid

(Emrys Atkinson   Compuserve 70531.1217)

 

 

From: jamesm at sco.COM (James M. Moore)

Date: 6 Dec 89 04:09:56 GMT

Organization: An tOibriu Santa Cruz

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

(Beth ydy "Cynfeirdd?"  Does dim yn y Geiriadur Mawr...)

 

First on the list of critical reading is the Mabinogion. The two most

recent editions that I'm aware of are:

 

Ford, Patrick.  The Mabinogi and Other Medieval Welsh Tales.

        University of California Press, 1977.  [Available in

        paperback]

 

        Includes:

                Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed

                Branwen Daughter of Llyr

                Manawydan son of Llyr

                Math son of Mathonwy

                Lludd and Lleuelys

                Culhwch and Olwen

                The Tale of Gwion Bach and the Tale of Taliesin

                Cad Goddeu [Battle of the Trees]

 

Gantz, Jeffrey.  The Mabinogion.  Dorset Press, 1976.

        

        Includes:

                Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed

                Branwen Daughter of Llyr

                Manawydan son of Llyr

                Math son of Mathonwy

                Dream of Maxen

                Lludd and LLevelys

                How Culhwch Won Olwen

                Dream of Rhonabwy

                Owein, or the Countess of the Fountain

                Peredur Son of Evrawg

                Gereint and Enid

 

Also available is:

 

Jones, Gwyn, and Jones, Thomas.  The Mabinogion.  Dent, 1984.

 

This is invaluable for attempting to read the original manuscripts,

as it's a very literal translation of the material.  It's drawback is

the same as it's feature - if you aren't translating, I would not

choose this as my first exposure to Welsh, as it's written in very

stilted, formal, almost Victorian English.

 

If you're interested in reading the original, your essential companion

is:

 

Evans, D. Simon.  A Grammar of Middle Welsh.  Dublin Institute for

        Advanced Studies, 1976.

 

Be warned that this is what the title says:  a grammar. It's not a

Middle Welsh tutorial.  Trying to learn Welsh from this would be like

learning C from K & R Appendix A.

 

The dictionary is:

 

Evans and Thomas, Y Geiriadur Mawr.  Gwasg Gomer, Llandysul, 1986.

        (Welsh - English and English - Welsh sections.)

 

I also suggest the introduction from:

 

Thomson, R. L.  Pwyll Pendeuic Dyuet.  Dublin Institute for Advanced

        Studies, 1980.

 

Try reading through some of the Welsh with Jones and Jones open to the

same page.  'Pwyll' (all of the Dublin Institue series, acutally) has

a fairly complete vocabulary.  Be warned, though, that one of the

fundamental parts of a Celtic language is initial mutation, and

consonants at the beginning of a word are not reliable. For example,

the word for Wales is Cymru.  But 'to Wales' is 'i Gymru,' and 'in

Wales' is 'yng Nghymru.'  All of these would be in the dictionary only

under Cymru; you just have to know which mutation is taking place.

(It's not like Irish, where you keep the original letter and just add

to it.)

 

Hwyll,

 

James Moore                            | Nil aon .sig maith agam anois -

Santa Cruz Operation UNIX Tech Support |        B'fheidir an tseachtaine seo

jamesm at sco.com                         |               chugainn.

 

 

From: DICKSNR%QUCDN.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU ("Ross M. Dickson")

Date: 9 Dec 89 00:24:00 GMT

Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 

Greetings unto those upon the Rialto from Sarra Graeham, through the good

services of her husband, Angus:

 

To change the subject considerably, all this talk about Welshness and re-

ferences for Welsh stories, etc. has reminded me that there are a lot of

Welsh personas out there.  I always, whenever it is within my power, try to

do scrolls for people according to their personas, but Welsh calligraphy

and manuscripts are devilishly difficult to get references on, mostly be-

cause the Welsh never did really flashy manuscript work; they were, as a

nation, much too poor.

 

I have, however, found two fairly good books on the subject.  Both are

rather ancient (a good researcher really ought to be at least a little sus-

picious of any reference dated before 1960, because the field of medieval

studies took a radical turn right about then), but have quite a few facsim-

ile pages, which never become dated.

     Lindsay, Wallace M., _Early Welsh Script_, J.Parker & Co., 1917.

     Denholm-Young, Noel, _Handwriting in England and Wales_, University

          of Wales Press, Cardiff, 1954.

 

In general, the Welsh were at least a hundred years in development behind

the rest of the British Isles, which were almost that far behind the conti-

nent.  For a Welsh persona prior to about 1200, the Insular Majescule and

Miniscule hands of the Irish and Anglo-Saxons are appropriate, with less

embellishment.  In the 13th Century, they started to develop a very ideo-

syncratic hand (those Welsh always had to be different :-) based on Gothic.

It is an extremely beautiful script, written with a thick nib on a backwards

slant and with very few serifs, but they had virtually no illumination to

go along with it, maybe a simple, one-colour capital at the beginning of a

division of text.  When done well, I think that this style would make a

lovely AoA for a Welsh persona.

 

     Sarra Graeham, Canton of Greyfells   |   Heather Fraser

     Crown Principality of Ealdormere     |   Kingston, ON, CANADA

 

 

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)

Date: 13 Dec 91 18:52:31 GMT

Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

 

Greetings from Arval!  I recommend to your attention "The Brothers of

Gwynedd Quartet," by Edith Pargeter.  This book, available in soft-cover,

is a collection of four novels recounting the life of Llywelyn ap Griffith,

Prince of Wales, and his wars with England, his involvement with the

Baron's Revolt, and his efforts to unify Wales.  It is a fictional account,

from the point of view of his personal secretary, but Pargeter has brought

the period to life with her normal skill and excellent research.  Pargeter

also writes as Ellis Peters, and is the author of the Brother Cadfael

mysteries.  

 

The four books in the quartet are available separately, but there's

something lovely about having them all in one volume, and being able to

read through without pause to find the next book.  

 

        Arval.

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?

From: eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov (Eric C. Smith)

Date: 23 Jul 93 10:37:02 EST

Organization: NASA/KSC

 

betel at camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) wrote:

>     Well, after hanging around the SCA relatively passively for a

> year, I've decided to get more involved. My first order is persona

> research...

>

>     I've decided on late 11th, early 12th century Wales. I've done

> some research, and have a good idea of the social structure and the

> political goings-on of the period. Now I need to find information on

> clothing, diet, and so on.

>

>     Could anyone steer me towards some good sources? I'm also

> looking for names. :-)

 

'A Journey Through Wales' and 'A Description of Wales' by Gerald of Wales,

Geraldus Cambrensus?.  The first book was written in the late 12th century

and chronicles a trip the Gerald made with the then Bishop of Cantebury,

can't recall his name, for the purpose of recruiting welsh folk for the

crusades.  There are some real good first hand observations.  

 

Gerald was Welsh/Norman by birth, and tried to live in both worlds.  

***************************************************************************

* Eric C. Smith                 |       |Lord Maredudd Cymysglyd ap Cynan *

* NASA/DL-ESS-21                |       |Kingdom of Trimaris              *

* Kennedy Space Center FL, 32899|       |Shire Starhaven,Hospitaler       *

* eric-smith at ksc.nasa.gov       |       |Poet Laureate, Trimaris          *

***************************************************************************

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)

Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 15:28:43 GMT

Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research

 

> I've decided on late 11th, early 12th century Wales... Could anyone

> steer me towards some good sources? I'm also

 

> 'A Journey Through Wales' and 'A Description of Wales' by Gerald of Wales

 

Excellent suggestions, Maredudd.  These are available in translation from

Penguin Books.

===========================================================================

Arval d'Espas Nord                                   mittle at watson.ibm.com

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: steffan at world.std.com (Steven H Mesnick)

Subject: Re: Welsh Info Please?

Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1993 05:30:23 GMT

 

Yes, if you're contemplating a Welsh persona, start with Geraldus Cambrensis

and the Mabinogion. I also recommend anything by Mistress Keridwen ferch

Morgan Glasfryn, who has written much on Welsh persona-development, including

articles in Heraldic Symposia Proceedings, a recent Compleat Anachronist,

and publishes a journal of Welsh persona-development called Y Camamseriad.

Unfortunately I don't have her address at hand at the moment, but I'm sure

*someone* on this bridge does.

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh word

Date: 22 Oct 1993 15:44:15 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

<bilyji at rpi.edu> wrote:

>Can anyone tell me the Welsh word for badger?

 

Ever heard of the heraldic term "brock" used for badgers? Well, they borrowed

it from Welsh. The Welsh word is "broch" (pronounced with a "hard" ch, as in  

Scottish "loch"). It's a particularly ancient word, appearing as part of

compound given names as early as some Gaulish examples. (The name "Brochfael"

means "great badger".)

 

>     A friend of mine wants to know and neither of us have Welsh>English

>dictionaries. Which brings up the next question, is there such an item?

 

Certainly there is such an item. How much money do you want to spend?

The standard Welsh/English dictionary (which runs around $30 as I recall

is the "Geiriadur Mawr" ("Big Dictionary") ISBN 0-85088-462-4 or

0-7154-0543-8 (don't ask my why it has two listed). The Cadillac model is

the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru (University of Wales Dictionary) which is set

up along the lines of the OED, costs several hundred dollars and has only

been issued through Ll at this point.

 

>     Can anyone recommend a good method of learning Welsh?

 

Spoken or literary? There are several reasonable tape courses for the former.

For the latter, I'm rather fond of the original "Teach Yourself Welsh" book

(ISBN 0-340-05829-3) but you may have to find it in a second-hand store at

this point.

 

>     I give unto thee my thanks for thine assistance.

>                             -Elkor ap Gregorson.

>

For more details, e-mail me privately and I'll deluge you with information.

 

Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn; West, Mists, Mists

Heather Rose Jones hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Call for Welsh Research

Date: 28 Oct 1993 14:58:58 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

I'm looking for articles to publish in my annual journal of Welsh

research ("Y Camamseriad"). Virtually any subject is fair game as

long as it has a Welsh connection, falls within the SCA period,

and is well-researched. I'm especially interested in research

with a practical application. I'm also looking for book reviews,

special-subject bibliographies, original prose and poetry in

Welsh styles, and art. Reprints cheerfully accepted. No length

limitations (published articles have ranged from one to eighty

pages). My deadline for submissions is around June, so there's no

particular hurry, but I'd love to hear queries from interested

parties. If you have a subject but few resources, I may be able

to help you with research materials or at least reading lists.

e-mail me at hrjones.uclink.berkeley.edu

Keridwen ferch Morgan Glasfryn

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: ral at netcom.com (Rebecca LeDock)

Subject: Libraries with Welsh collections

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 01:24:22 GMT

 

I am currently scouring Net catalogs of libraries containing collections

of materials on Wales.  I have many library addresses; but would like to

concentrate first on those libraries known to have large collections of

Welsh materials.  I an already working on all libraries in Wales

including the National Library of Wales.  I have also completed the

collections of the Universities of Wales, Wisconsin (Madison), Michigan

(Ann Arbor), Harvard and Princeton. as well as most of the University

System of Georgia and Florida, and the Bryn Mawr-Swarthmore Colleges.  

 

Are there schools (or on-line public libraries) out there with large

collections that I should hit next?

 

This is not an idle project; I publish a bibliography of books of

interest to SCA-ers on Wales, and one on Scotland.  The Wales

bibliography is available to anyone interested; e-mail me with your

address for a copy.  Since it is currently 87 pages (8 point Helvetica;

double columns, it comes U.S. Post Office.

 

Baroness Rebecca of Twywn

Barony of the South Downs, Meridies

ral at netcom.com

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Libraries with Welsh collections

Date: 29 Oct 1994 06:13:24 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Rebecca LeDock (ral at netcom.com) wrote:

: I am currently scouring Net catalogs of libraries containing collections

: of materials on Wales.  I have many library addresses; but would like to

...

: Are there schools (or on-line public libraries) out there with large

: collections that I should hit next?

 

Definitely check out the UC Berkeley library. The on-line catalog isn't

entirely complete -- I keep running into books on the shelves that aren't

in it -- but it's a start. We probably have the biggest collection of

Welsh material in this half of the continent.

 

: This is not an idle project; I publish a bibliography of books of

: interest to SCA-ers on Wales, and one on Scotland.  The Wales

: bibliography is available to anyone interested; e-mail me with your

: address for a copy.  Since it is currently 87 pages (8 point Helvetica;

: double columns, it comes U.S. Post Office.

 

Is it available in electronic format?

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: Heather Rose Jones (1/9/95)

To: Mark Harris

RE>novice mundane historian needs help!

 

> My persona is not Welsh, but if you have an overview I'd love to see

> what you have. I do have friends with Welsh personas. If you could give

> me more information about what you've published and prices some of them

> may be interested.

 

See below -- thanks for asking.

 

Tangwystyl

------------------------

THIS IS AN ABRIDGED ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THE HARPY MUSIC CATALOG

(most recently updated 8/5/94)

                    ORDERING INFORMATION

Order from:

Harpy Music

5838 Fremont St. #2

Oakland CA 94608-2612

(510) 654-6635

Calif. residents _must_ add sales tax (to the subtotal before

shipping is added).

Shipping:

U.S. $.50 per $5 or part thereof

Canada $1.00 per $5 or part thereof

Elsewhere $1.25 per $5 or part thereof

Payment by check or money order to Harpy Music - US FUNDS ONLY

PLEASE!

Indicate clearly what address you want things shipped to.

All orders will be shipped book rate (4th class) except for

cassette tapes which are shipped 1st class.

_________________________________________________________________

Y Camamseriad (A Journal of Welsh Research for the SCA)

     Scholarly and practical research relevant to Welsh personae.

     A forum for original research on any topic that might be of

     interest to those trying to create a Welsh persona in the

     Society for Creative Anachronism or similar organizations.

     Although this is a periodical, advance subscriptions are not

     available. Issued annually. Submissions welcome!

Volume 1 (1992) 162pp $13.50

     Conversational Medieval Welsh, The Cywydd, An Introduction

     to the Welsh Language, Medieval Welsh Titles, Welsh Name

     Formation, Names and Naming Practices in the Merioneth Lay

     Subsidy Roll (1282-3), Names and Naming Practices in Some

     North Pembrokeshire Toll Books (1599-1603), Medieval Welsh

     Cookery, plus original poetry and fiction, reviews,

     mail-order sources, and more.

Volume 2 (1993) 176pp $13.50

     Medieval Welsh Clothing - pre 1300, Welsh Scroll Texts, On

     Blazoning Armory in Medieval Welsh, Non-Roman Writing

     Systems for Welsh, Welsh Animal Names, A Welsh Card Game,

     Welsh Games, plus original poetry, and more.

Volume 3 (1994) 84pp $13.50

     Welsh Households for the SCA, Period Welsh Models for SCA

     Households and the Nomenclature Thereof, Domestic

     Architecture in Medieval Wales, Utensils in Medieval Wales,

     The Welsh Vernacular Hand of the 13th and 14th Centuries,

     Welsh Illumination, Welsh Decorated Capitals, The First

     Thousand Years of British Names [i.e., Romano-British names,

     Old Welsh names, early Irish names in Britain].

                        [end of catalog]

 

======================================================================

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Kilts

Date: 7 Jun 1995 18:55:05 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

ingrid larson (ilarson at bgnet.bgsu.edu) wrote:

 

: I've heard mention of Welsh kilts from my Lady, whose net access I borrow

: to write this, and from a few of you on here.  One gentle mentioned that

: they were solid colors...I believe green and blue were noted

: specifically.  Does anyone have any more info on this subject?  If I am

: going to show my legs off at war this year, I'd like to get as close to

: authentic as possible...;>

 

I've done fairly extensive research into the history of Welsh clothing in

period and I have found no evidence for anything that might be called a

"Welsh kilt". In the 18th century, when Lady Llanover was encouraging

"Welsh folk costume" she sometimes had her male servants wear an outfit

including a kilt, but it is generally accepted that she invented this

style by analogy with Scottish dress. I believe that some modern Welsh

folk dance troupes have the men wearing kilts, probably derived from the

previous item. I'd say that if you want to get as close to authentic as

possible, forget about "Welsh kilts".

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Help with welsh persona

Date: 7 Jun 1995 19:37:20 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Morgandark (morgandark at aol.com) wrote:

: I am working on creating a late 1500's welsh persona and need help with a

: last name.  Any suggestions or pointers to references would be

: appreciated.

 

For the late 16th century, you have a lot of options in format, if not in

content. This was the period when the fixed surnames mandated by English

law were beginning to replace the older ad hoc patronymic system. So you

can use an old-style "ap X" surname (and have it refer either to your

actual father or to some earlier generation at this point); an Anglicized

"coalesced" form such as "Bowen" (ab Owen); an English-style s-possesive

patronym such as "Evans"; or simply a plain given name (also originating

in a patronym). Surnames derived from descriptive nicknames are also

prevalent, although only a small number of the previous variety are

common (such as "Coch" (red), "Vychan" (small/junior), etc.).

Occupational and locative surnames are rare in Welsh at this period (and

thus in modern times), but not unheard of. The major difference in

substance (as opposed to form) of the Welsh names of this period is due

to the fact that English given names have largely replace the ones of

Welsh origin, and a small handful of names dominate the scene. In one set

of late 16th century records from Pembrokeshire, the top ten (men's)

names in order of popularity were: John, David, Thomas, William, Ieuan,

Rhys, Gruffudd, Lewis, Phillip, and Jenkin. In total, in this document,

only 23% of the given names were of Welsh origin.

 

"Welsh Surnames" by Morgan & Morgan has a great deal of information for

Welsh surnames during this period. If you want a more structural

analysis, at least for one particular region at one timepoint, try my

analysis of the aforementioned records "Names and Naming Practices in

Some North Pembrokeshire Toll Books (1599-1603)", published in the 1992

Heralds Proceedings or in "Y Camamseriad" #1.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Celtic Tent Info

Date: 16 Jun 1995 18:37:41 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Madoc (NASH_JOHN/HPBRIT_C6 at hpcpbla.bri.hp.com) wrote:

:     We have been trying to find evidence of Welsh tents but

:   have so far drawn a blank. Believe me, we have had far more than

:   a cursory search.

:     It would appear that the Welsh teulu were semi-transient,

:   moving there cattle from lowland to highland depending on the

:   season, and we assume that they had proper housing in each location.

:     The King and his household would lead an almost nomadic

:   lifestyle, travelling from place to place. The duties of the

:   peasants included the building and maintenance of several halls

:   for the kings visits.

:         Even on campaign, the chances were that the brenin's warband

:  could rely on these halls up to a point.

 

:     So, there you go. No tents in Wales during our period ( 900-1066)

:   Except the ones used by Viking traders I expect.

 

You can find literary _references_ to tents in medieval Wales. (Not in

pre-1066 Wales, I'll admit -- but then you can't find primary literary

evidence for much of _anything_ in pre-1066 Wales because the manuscripts

just don't exist.)

 

The most convenient source for this is the entries in the "Geiriadur

Prifysgol Cymru" for the words "pabell", "pall", and "lluest". The first

is a borrowing of the same root as "pavillion", the second is also taken

from Latin from "palla" (mantle, cloak) possibly suggesting the

make-shift origin of some examples, while the last shows its

origin in the most likely derivation from "llu" (army, host of men) +

"gwest" (lodging, hospitality, shelter).

 

13th c. (a poem in the Book of Aneirin) - rac PEBYLL madawc "in front of

Madog's tent"

 

14th c. (Brut y Tywysogion, a Welsh chronicle) - y kyuodes ... Maredud ac

Ywein ... yn anssynhwyrus oc eu PEBYLL heb gyweiraw eu bydin "Maredudd

and Owein arose insensibly(?) from their tents without readying their army"

 

c.1200 (the Chirk Codex of the Welsh laws) - ebrenyn adely opob

myleyntref dyn amarch abuyall ygueneuthur LLUESTEU "the king is entitled

to have from each villein-town a man with a horse and an axe to make

tents/shelters"

 

13th c. (the History of Gruffudd ap Cynan) - LLUESTEU y dywededigyon

vrenhined "tents/shelters of the aforementined kings"

 

14th c. (a poem from the Red Book of Hergest) - LLUEST gadwallawn arydon

"tent/shelter of Cadwallon <unknown>"

 

c. 1300 (various poems form the Hedregadredd ms.) - y BEBYLL y byll y

ball coch (to pavillions, to ??, to a red tent); Eil ywr llall or pall

pell (second is the other from the far tent)

 

14th c. (the tale of Branwen) - Nyt ymywn ty ydoydynt namyn ymywn PALLEU

(they were not within a house, but within tents); achyweiraw y PEBYLLAU

ar PALLEU awnaethant udunt ar ureint kyweirdeb yneuad (and they prepared

the pavillions and the tents for them in the manner of preparing the hall)

 

There are also the derived verbs "lluestu" (to lodge temporarily in the

open or in tents, to camp, esp. of troops) and "pebyllio" (to pitch a

tent, encamp).

 

1160 (a poem) - Pei byw llary lleissiawn / Ni LUESTAI wyned ym mherfed

edeirniawn "While Llary Lleission lives, Gwynedd shall not camp in the

middle of Edeirnion"

 

12th c. (poem) - Rhag pyrth Penfro yn PEBYLLIAW (tenting before the gates

of Penfro)

 

13th c. (History of Gruffudd ap Cynan) - en e cantref hvnnv y

LLUESTASSANT wythnos "in that cantref they camped for a week"; urth henne

e LLUESTWS ac y PEBYLLYUS ... em Mur Castell "because of that, he camped

and tented ... in Mur Castell"

 

13th c. (Llyfr Colan - one of the law tracts) - E brennyn a dyly o pob

tayauctref ban el y lluyd gur a buyall y LLUESTU ydau. "The king is

entitled to have from each villein-town, when he would go to battle, a

man with an axe to make camp for him"

 

I have deliberately omitted examples that are either translated or

largely derived from religious or other non-Welsh sources, on the

assumption that the tents could have been in the original. So what does

this tell us? Well, the medieval Welsh were familiar with tents and used

them, largely in the context of war, but also on peaceable occasions when

more room was needed. Tent poles were most likely cut on site (thus, the

man with the axe) and the fabric in some cases bore enough resemblence to

a cloak (either in form or function) to take its name from that item. Not

a _great_ deal of help, but it's something.

 

OK, OK, I'll expand it into an article. Are you happy now?

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

(who should have been at work over an hour ago, but this got really

interesting!)

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: New Member research (HELP!!!!)

Date: 9 Sep 1995 23:27:46 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

RhonddaL (rhonddal at aol.com) wrote:

:      I've only recently joined the SCA and my Persona is Elizabeathan

: Welsh. I know the dress and some Elizabeathan history. My problem is my

: local library is small and books on this period are almost limited to old

: romances.      Is there a catalog of books to research? Someone in my

: Shire suggested "Barnes and Noble".

:       Also is there any books in particular that will be helpful in

: developing my persona and knowledge of 16th century England and Wales?

:       I am currently half way through Rosalind Miles "I ELIZABETH". It's a

: start.

 

:            Cariadwyn Shockley (m.k.a. Rhondda Lake)

 

First suggestion: when you ask for help, mention the nature of the

information you want in your header. I might not necessarily read a

generic "help - new member" message, but I'll arrow right in on anything

with "Wales" or "Welsh" in the header.

 

If you've resigned yourself to spending money on books (which it sounds

like you'll have to), you probably want to pick up a catalog from the

University of Wales Press. You can get their catalog (and order their

books) through:

 

Ford & Bailie PO Box 138, Belmont MA 02178

 

(but you have to specifically request the U. of Wales Press catalog to

get it)

 

In this, you will find titles such as "Elizabethan Wales - The Social

Scene", "The Gentry of South-West Wales 1540-1640", "Tudor Wales (Welsh

History and Its Sources series)" and any number of general Welsh history

books.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: vincenti at mars.superlink.net (William Vincenti)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: FYI - WWW Welsh sources

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:09:25 GMT

 

http://nlsvmss.aber.ac.uk/manu.html

> National Library of Wales

>

> Department of Manuscripts and Records

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> The Department of Manuscripts and Records holds the main collection

> of Welsh manuscripts, Public Records, including the Great Session

> records for Wales (1542-1830), the diocesan records of the Church in

> Wales, nonconformist archives, extensive estate records and

> University of Wales higher degree dissertations. The Department also

> collects the literary papers of Welsh and Anglo-Welsh writers and

> artists. The Political Archive safeguards the papers of Welsh

> politicians, political parties and other groups. The Department also

> holds the archives of semi-public bodies such as the Welsh Arts

> Council, Welsh National Opera and the National Eisteddfod.

>

> The Department also maintains an Index to Welsh Poetry

 

 

From: sally at rovanion.demon.co.uk (Sally Sinclair)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,soc.culture.welsh,soc.history.war.misc

Subject: Re: Archers, 400AD, Britain

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 19:34:52 GMT

 

In message <4d3hEHA7GYJxEwzw at dafyddpj.demon.co.uk> Dafydd Price Jones wrote:

> That fount of knowledge, Microflake's Encarta, assures us that archery

> goes as far back as the early Egyptians, and that the Romans were

> adept with arrows.

> The invention of the longbow is credited to the Welsh by Macmillan's

> encyclopaedia, and may have been used in battle for the first time in

> 1298.

>

> I have only snippets of information.  Is there a historian in the group?

 

Archery was around in the European Stone-Age, as witnessed by the many

different types of flint arrowheads discovered, some of which are barbed and

tanged. The earliest finds come from France and date from the Upper Paleolithic

(from 38,000BC).

 

Gerald of Wales (Geraldus Cambrensis), writing in 1188, describes the men of

Gwent as being most skilled in warfare, particularly with the bow.

 

"The bows they use are not made of horn, nor of sapwood, nor yet of yew. The

Welsh carve their bows out of the dwarf elm-trees in the forest. They are

nothing much to look at, not even rubbed smooth, but left in a rough and

unpolished state. Still, they are firm and strong. You could not shoot far

with them, but they are powerful enough to inflict serious wounds in a close

fight." (translation by Lewis Thorpe).

 

Gerald also describes a soldier being pinned to his horse by arrows, and of a

3-inch-thick oak door in Abergavenny castle pierced by arrows during an attack.

He also mentions that in North Wales, the spear is the preferred weapon.

--

Sally

 

 

From: lisa <mite1 at aloha.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Welsh Course (was Given name Glen)

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:26:48 +0000

Organization: Hawaii OnLine - Honolulu, HI

 

Here's one web site I look at sometimes for Welsh language info.

 

http://www.cs.brown.edu/fun/welsh/

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: "Goodwoman"

Date: 23 Jul 1996 17:35:09 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

One of the interesting things I discovered when researching medieval Welsh

titles and forms of address is that they appear to have had a form of

address for "someone you just met whose rank you don't know but whom you

want to be polite to".  In a significant number of instances in the

literature, we find a character addressing someone as "unben" (feminine

"unbennes")** at first, when the person's identity and rank are unknown,

and then switching to a more specific form of address after introductions.

 

** pronounced (roughly) "EEN-ben" and "een-BEN-ess"

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Welsh Research Journal

Date: 6 Aug 1996 01:12:40 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Issue #4 of "Y Camamseriad: a journal of Welsh research for the SCA" is

now available. The contents include:

 

Names:

 

A Consideration of Pictish Names

Welsh Names in France in the Late 14th Century

Women's Names in the First Half of 16th Century Wales - With

   Particular Atttention to the Surnames of Married Women

Names and Naming Practices in the Anglesey Submissions of 1406

A Sampling of Names from the Heraldic Visitations of Wales

 

Practical Culture:

 

Some Data on the Use and Nature of Tents in Medieval Wales

Further Notes on Oatcakes

 

History and Society:

 

The Linguistic Writings of Gerald de Barri

Period Welsh Versions of Some Common Prayers and Related Material

Some Period Welsh Inspirations for SCA Ceremonies

The Education of a Medieval Welsh Bard

A Short Bibliography of Religion in Medieval Wales

 

Please e-mail me privately for ordering information and a full catalog of

previous issues. This publication is also available at Pennsic from

Potboiler Press.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: welsh music / storytelling help

Date: 3 Nov 1996 01:27:56 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Tony Garcia (bard at csnsys.com) wrote:

: I'm looking for some information about the proper period (say about 1300) form

: of Welsh storytelling and music. As for the music, some specific examples to

: set a style would be good.

: Any references would be appreciated

 

For storytelling, you've hit an ideal period. The majority of the Medieval

Welsh literary tales that we have access to were written down in the 13th

century. A few show evidence of having been composed/set-down earlier

(e.g. "Culhwch and Olwen") and a few others are only available from

significantly later manuscripts (e.g. the legend of Taliessin).

 

The main corpus of material that you want to be familiar with are the four

"branches" of the Mabinogi, the four "native" tales, and the three

Arthurian romances. There are several translations of these available and

everyone has their own favorite among them.

 

But there are a number of other storytelling resources that should not be

overlooked, simply because they are harder to find. Giraldus Cambrensis'

writings about Wales from the late 12th century ("The Journey Through

Wales/ The Description of Wales") include a number of short narratives

that he heard and recorded on his travels. There are also a half-dozen or

so Welsh-related stories in Walter Map's "Courtiers' Trifles". The Welsh

chronicles -- specifically the "Brut y Tywysogion" -- contain a large

number of descriptions of historical events that could be worked up into

stories with little effort.

 

I'm afraid the musical situation is much more depressing. With the

exception of some brief and extremely vague descriptions of Welsh music,

we have no indication of what that music was _like_ before the late 16th

century -- and even then the information is sketchy and includes a lot of

guesswork. W.S. Gwynn Williams, in his work "Welsh National Music and

Dance", covers just about all of what is known about period Welsh music --

and it isn't much at all.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: 8th cent. books

Date: 5 Dec 1996 01:46:05 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Andrea Luxenburg (Edl at mail.albany.net) wrote:

: I am trying to put together a library of books my persona might have

: read.  We are talking about a 7/8th century Welshwoman with a convent

: education.  My late husband was somewhat of a scholar (second sons can

: get away with that) who studied in Ireland, along with my brother.  We

: spent several years in Byzantium (Fulfillment of a vow took us there; the

: books kept us there.) before returning to his home in Gaul.  I now live

: in Northumbria, and am good friends with the local abbess, who is kind

: enough to share her library with me.  I read Latin, Welsh, and

: Anglo-Saxon, and my husband had translated some Greek works for me.  (I

: also speak Frankish, after a fashion, but I doubt there is anything worth

: reading in that tongue.)  So any suggestions on what I might have read

: would be most appreciated.  (Then I can try to find them and read them!)

 

Fascinating angle on persona development! By expanding the net to include

Ireland and Northumbria, you've gone beyond what I'm comfortable

speculating on, but I'll make some stabs at the topic.

 

W.M. Lindsay's "Early Welsh Script" lists several _surviving_ Welsh

manuscripts that date from this approximate period. (Needless to say, they

would be only the tip of the iceberg.) They are primarily in Latin, with

occasional glosses in Welsh and other languages. Various copies of the

gospels head the list. Other works include formulas for calculating

Easter, works by Martianus Capella, Boethius, and even Ovid's "Ars

Amatoria"(!).

 

For the Irish angle, you might look at Thomas Cahill's "How the Irish

Saved Civilization" (although I must admit I haven't read it yet).

 

Other random thoughts: Gildas and Bede, definitely, but you're too early

for Nennius; grammatical works such as Donatus. This is fun -- I'd

probably be doing better if I weren't running a fever currently.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: The Throne of Scone

Date: 7 Dec 1996 20:07:09 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Medwyn (bard at themall.net) wrote:

:    djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

 

: >(Personally I would like to see a real United Kingdom wherein the

: >King of England and the King of Scotland and the King of Ireland

: >and the Prince of Wales and maybe the Duke of Cornwall ...

 

: And just why can't Wales have a King? If I recall correctly, the Prince a

: Wales is a title bestowed by an English monarch.

 

Historically, Wales never had "a" king -- back when rulers in Wales were

still calling themselves kings, the concept of a unified political

structure would have horrified them. By the time that Welsh rulers were

beginning to be successful in introducing the concept of political unity,

it was politically expedient to refer to themselves more modestly as

"princes" in deference to their theoretical subordination to the English

crown. And it was this later model that was mirrored by the English

construct of "Prince of Wales" as a title for the heir-apparent. There's a

very interesting article on the socio-political context of how native

Welsh nobility referred to themselves and each other: "Kings, Lords, and

Princes: the Nomenclature of Authority in Thirteeth-century Wales" by

Dafydd Jenkins in The Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies (Vol.XXVI,

Part IV).

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Agriculture

Date: 10 Mar 1997 05:00:38 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Eric C. Smith (maredudd at blackroot.org) wrote:

: I am in search of references for period Welsh Agricultural practices.

 

: Specifically, I am looking for info about Dark Ages Wales (circa 800)  but

: I would apreciate ANY references anything from the High Middle Ages

: earlier.

 

A good place to start might be the multi-volume "An Agrarian History of

England and Wales".

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

(P.S. So ... might this turn into something I could publish in my

journal?)

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Agriculture

Date: 11 Mar 1997 04:26:24 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

S.Thomas (morgan at in-tch.com) wrote:

: Heather Rose Jones wrote:

: > A good place to start might be the multi-volume "An Agrarian History of

: > England and Wales".

 

: Do you have a name of an author (or maybe there are many, since you said

: "multi-volume.)?

 

I was posting from school, so that was from memory. I don't actually own

the series ... yet <pout>, but one volume that I can find in a

bibliography lists a J. Thirsk as editor. It's published in Cambridge in

1967 if that helps. In addition, I'll note that Wendy Davies' "Wales in

the Early Middle Ages" has a decent overview on the subject and many more

specially references in her bibliography.

 

: On the second topic - I have Vol. 1,2 &3 of your journal. Are ther more?

: (hope,hope)

 

Volume 4 is available -- haven't gotten around to sending out the updated

catalog yet.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: maredudd at blackroot.org (Eric C. Smith)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Agriculture

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:37:55 -0500

Organization: Blackroot Ent.

 

Heather Rose Jones wrote:

> A good place to start might be the multi-volume "An Agrarian History of

> England and Wales".

>

> Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

>

> (P.S. So ... might this turn into something I could publish in my

> journal?)

 

Yes Tangwystyl, it just might turn into something for your journal.  I'm

looking for 'The Agrarian History...' now.  (I'm on the phone with Barnes

& Nobel as I type.  They  say its $160.00 for the single volume edition.

Maybe the local library has it.)

 

Thanks Tangwystyl

Maredudd

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Please help with Welsh names

Date: 18 Mar 1997 04:51:00 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Mike Davies (mdavies at sprynet.com) wrote:

: I guess I'm looking for help with a given name,

: phonetic pronunciation for my surname and references for " fleshing-out" my

: persona.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

That's going to depend to a large extent on what aspects you want fleshed

out. Are you looking for general historical information or everyday

details? For a start, I'd tend to recommend a general history -- David

Walker's "Medieval Wales" (Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-31153-5)

is a good start for this period, having the additional advantage of being

fairly cheap and currently in print. (A more comprehensive Welsh history

is "A History of Wales" by John Davies, recently out in paperback from

Penguin Books.) And I'd supplement that for everyday life with a very

readable translation of the medieval Welsh law corpus: "The Law of Hywel

Dda" by Dafydd Jenkins (Gomer Press, ISBN 0-86383-277-6). From there, it's

a matter of seeking out more specialized information.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: mcarson at cybercomm.net (Michael Carson)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Please help with Welsh names

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 06:12:30 GMT

 

hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) wrote:

>That's going to depend to a large extent on what aspects you want fleshed

>out. Are you looking for general historical information or everyday

>details? For a start, I'd tend to recommend a general history -- David

>Walker's "Medieval Wales" (Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-31153-5)

>is a good start for this period, having the additional advantage of being

>fairly cheap and currently in print. (A more comprehensive Welsh history

>is "A History of Wales" by John Davies, recently out in paperback from

>Penguin Books.) And I'd supplement that for everyday life with a very

>readable translation of the medieval Welsh law corpus: "The Law of Hywel

>Dda" by Dafydd Jenkins (Gomer Press, ISBN 0-86383-277-6). From there, it's

>a matter of seeking out more specialized information.

 

        How about Gerald of Wales' "The Journey Through Wales" and "The

Description of Wales" (Penguin 0-14-044339-8?  As long as the reader

realises that Gerald writes throught the dual lenses of being a

churchman and his politics (he seems to have favoured an English

conquest of Wales as a way to bring 'civilization' to them).  I

haven't found a better source written in period.

        Also, how about your journals?  They've been a big help to me.  Are

they still available?  Is there/will there be a volume 4?

 

Cheers,

Rhys ab Ieuan

mka Michael Carson

http://blackstar.litenet.com/~mcarson/carillion

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Please help with Welsh names

Date: 24 Mar 1997 06:36:02 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Michael Carson (mcarson at cybercomm.net) wrote:

: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) wrote:

 

<some advice about books for starting work on a Welsh persona>

 

:       How about Gerald of Wales' "The Journey Through Wales" and "The

: Description of Wales" (Penguin 0-14-044339-8?  As long as the reader

: realises that Gerald writes throught the dual lenses of being a

: churchman and his politics (he seems to have favoured an English

: conquest of Wales as a way to bring 'civilization' to them).  I

: haven't found a better source written in period.

 

Also good -- although you _do_ need to read critically and understand

Gerald's biases. In many ways, Gerald is better for the individual details

than for any larger picture.

 

:       Also, how about your journals?  They've been a big help to me.  Are

: they still available?  Is there/will there be a volume 4?

 

I do so love it when people give me an opening for a plug. Issue #4 is

available, with articles on such things as period Welsh references to

tents, source material on Welsh bards, period Welsh versions of some

common prayers, a discussion of possible period Welsh models for SCA

ceremonies ... and of course, the ubiquitous name research.

 

Contact me privately for ordering information.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: welsh costuming

Date: 6 Jul 1997 03:27:20 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

MorganLFey (morganlfey at aol.com) wrote:

: my persona is female welsh 1327.  i have been playing for a little over 7

: years, and i would at long last like to make an attempt at actually

: recreating the persona i chose so long ago, rather than continuing to just

: wear whatever is comfortble, clean, and easy to make.

 

: what i am asking is if there is anyone out there who knows of a book or

: books of *costuming* (preferably with some semblance of a pattern as i am

: a seamstress, but alas, not a miracle worker)  ideas befitting my country

: and time.  if said book(s) is/are available at my local Media Play, Barnes

: and Nobles or other such bookstores, or if i need to order something

: special off the net.  i must admit that i have been exceedingly lazy in

: attempting to research this, but i would hope that all my brother (and

: sister) welsh women (and men) would overlook that minor iniquity and

: assist me in my endeavor.  thanks be to all.

 

When I researched my booklet on Welsh costume, I primarily confined myself

to the pre-1300 period -- for the simple reason that, after the fall of

the last of the native Welsh rulers in the late 13th century, the Welsh

nobility looked toward England for fashions in material culture.  To the

best of my research, for the upper classes, there were no substantial

differences between Welsh and English costume from perhaps the 13th

century or so onward.  There are some descriptions of Welsh lower-class

clothing from the 13th century that suggest there may have been

identifiably "Welsh" characteristics to their dress (in matters such as

materials and the lack of certain items of expected clothing) but it is

difficult to tell which of these characteristics are a mattern of

nationality and which are a matter of class or economic status.

 

I would say that for the 14th century you are fairly safe in extrapolating

from contemporary English fashions -- perhaps allowing for a slight

time-lag in diffusion and probably avoiding the really "high-end"

materials and sticking to native wools and linens.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: welsh costuming

Date: 6 Jul 1997 18:51:33 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

MorganLFey (morganlfey at aol.com) wrote:

: tangwystyl verch morgant glasvryn wrote:

 

: >after the fall of

: >the last of the native Welsh rulers in the late 13th century, the Welsh

: >nobility

 

: Is this in refrence to the Llewyle familys loss to edward longshanks in

: 1280 -something?  if so, do you have any books or other sources on this

: topic?  i would love to research this "war".

 

The cut-off is generally thought of as the death of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd

in 1282, ending the native dynasty of Gwynedd. The process wasn't nearly

as clear-cut and tidy as that would make it seem, however. The native

dynasty of Powys, for example, continued in power after that, taking the

English-style surname of "de la Pole" and tying themselves closely to

England, both politically and socially.

 

If you're interested in the whole, slow process of the 13th century

political changes in Wales, something like "The Age of Conquest" by R.R.

Davies (Oxford University Press) is good. For the "end-game" covering the

last quarter of the 13th century, try "The Welsh Wars of Edward I" by John

E. Morris (Combined Books). Both are currently in print in paperback.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: Phillip Stallcup <STALPL at integris-health.com>

To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:25:03 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: ANST - Welsh/English Dictionary

 

      I found a nice site with a Welsh/English English/Welsh dictionary, and

I thought some of you might be interested.

 

http://www.cs.brown.edu/fun/welsh/LexiconForms.html

 

Llygoden Llwyd

Barony of Wiesenfeuer

mka Phillip Stallcup

stalpl at integris-health.com

 

 

From: Ed Luxenburg <edl at albany.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: 13th century Welsh

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:31:40 -0700

Organization: AlbanyNet - E-mail info at albany.net

 

Eddie Philpott wrote:

> Please help !!!!! I am new to the SCA and I am begining research for my

> persona . I am thinking about 13th century Welsh . As of yet I am unable

> to find very much info on this period .

>

>         Eddie Philpott  ( soon to be Kedivor hopefuly !)

>         e-mail eddiep at kvnet.org

 

It's actually 12th cent, but certainly relevant:  The Journey Through

Wales/The Description of Wales by Gerald of Wales, available in

paperback from Penguin Books, ISBN 0-14-044339-8. Probably out of

print, but worth looking for:  The Normans in South Wales (1070 - 1171;

still a litle early, but useful) by Lynn H Nelson, University of Texas

Press, 1966.  Fiction but very well researched: The Four Brothers of

Gwynnedd by Edith Pargeter.  Treat with caution as to details, but your

persona would  probably have been familiar with the stories: The

Mabinogion; History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth

(ISBN 0-14-044170-0); The Life of Merlin, also by Geoffrey of Monmouth.

 

Good reading!

Guendid Gosfot

 

 

From: Erik Dutton <edutton at worldnet.att.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: 13th century Welsh

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:38:22 -0400

 

Eddie Philpott wrote:

> Please help !!!!! I am new to the SCA and I am begining research for my

> persona . I am thinking about 13th century Welsh . As of yet I am unable

> to find very much info on this period .

 

John Davies wrote the monumental (~700 pp.) "Hanes Cymru" a few years

ago, which has just been translated into English as "A History of

Wales."  Everything you could possibly want to know... for now <g>. Your

local library should have a copy.

 

Title: A History of Wales

Author: John Davies

Publisher: Allen Lane/The Penguin Press

ISBN: 0-713-99098-8

 

Rhodri ap Hywel

 

 

From: "Trevor Barker" <barkert at delete.logica.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: The Welsh

Date: 28 Aug 1998 12:16:47 GMT

Organization: Logica UK Limited

 

dehring <dehring at iserv.net> wrote

> A friend of mine is interested in having a welsh persona and have theses

> questions I volunteered to help scourer the library to find answers and

> IÕm drawing a blank can you guys help;

 

I'll try, with the usual caveat that I'm not an expert.

 

> He is in the 11th. cen. What makes him different then a English man other

> then the language?

 

Wales prior to the Norman invasion in 1066 would have been relatively

isolated from England - inasmuch as any adjoining countries can be said to

be "isolated".

 

Starting in about 1067, the Normans decided to add Wales to their demesne,

but this didn't prove easy as the Welsh were on their home ground and were

good at "guerilla" fighting (though not good at pitched battles).  Hence,

certain Norman barons were given fairly free rein to do what they liked in

the Welsh March (the south-eastern corner of Wales) so long as they kept

the Welsh in check.

 

Over the course of centuries, particularly the 13th, the English gained

control of Wales.

 

However, in the 11th Century, Wales would have been a distinct country with

a Celtic heritage.

 

> Clothes are they the same as English or was there things that when he

> steeped over the border some one knew at first glance that was a

Welshman.

 

To our modern eyes, there's little difference between the clothing of most

northern europeans of the 11th Century.  (This may be partly due to our

ignorance of the exact details of clothing in the period, as there aren't

many sources to draw from.)

 

I daresay real 11th Century people would have been able to pick up on small

regional differences in style of cut, decoration, jewellery, etc. that

would give clues as to whether someone was Danish, English, Welsh, or

whatever.  Or, to be more accurate, whether someone was "foreign" or not.

 

> would he be able to read and write ?

 

I don't believe the Welsh were any more or less literate than others of a

similar social group.  (Clerics would have been literate, peasants

wouldn't, and so on.)

 

> Was the food all the same as England?

 

Pass.

 

> Thankyou to anyone who responds and if you have any books or paintings to

> cite this would be helpful as Owen is really into his persona development.

 

One of the best descriptions available of Wales and the Welsh people can be

found in "The Journey through Wales" and "The Description of Wales" by

Gerald of Wales.  I use the Penguin Classics translation, ISBN

0-14-044339-8.  Gerald was writing at the end of the 12th Century, but he

may be the closest useful primary source you'll find.

 

I'm transferring my own "Journey through Wales" to the Web at the moment.

It's moderately scholarly, and hopefully amusing.  URL:

http://www.weylea.demon.co.uk/farisles/itincamb/index.htm

 

Trevor

(Ifor of Gwent, Brother Cellarer to the "Abbey" of Barwell-in-the-Fens in

the Principality of The Far Isles)

 

 

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: The Welsh

Date: 28 Aug 1998 15:48:57 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

dehring (dehring at iserv.net) wrote:

: A friend of mine is interested in having a welsh persona and have theses

: questions I volunteered to help scourer the library to find answers and IM

: drawing a blank can you guys help;

: He is in the 11th. cen. What makes him different then a English man other

: then the language?

: Clothes are they the same as English or was there things that when he

: steeped over the border some one knew at first glance that was a Welshman.

: would he be able to read and write ?

: Was the food all the same as England?

 

It's a difficult question to answer, mostly because the available sources

are so few. Written sources for the 11th century consist of a handful of

poetry, some historical chronicles, and a few miscellaneous things like

land charters. In addition, you have works from a later date (mostly 13th

century) which almost certainly date in some form from the 11th century or

previous (e.g., a small number of literary tales and the law codes) but

also include later material that must be sifted out. Then you have written

sources from the 12th century (such as Giraldus Cambrensis and Walter

Map), whose observations about Wales can be extrapolated backward to some

extent. Archaeological evidence for this period does exist, although the

impression I get is that it's rather scanty -- and getting at it generally

requires reading through lots of obscure journals. Pictorial sources for

11th century Wales are non-existant.

 

Yes, there were probably differences in clothing -- but what were they? In

the 12th century, both Gerald and Walter seem to consider the use of the

'brychan' (a rectangular cloak) to be both characteristically and

peculiarly Welsh, but Anglo-Saxon fashions could include a rectangular

cloak, so it is less certain whether this would have comprised as

significant a difference in the 11th century. Native Welsh sources tend to

use generic words like 'pais' (tunic) or 'gwisg' (garment) that give no

clue to the precise cut or style (and, indeed, change in application over

the centuries).

 

For food, again our nearest, most detailed information comes from Gerald

(who, among other things, describes meals as being served on a thin flat

bread instead of on plates), but the laws have a surprisingly large amount

of information on the types of food available. As to how different the

food was from English food -- again, I don't think we know enough details

of either to make strong claims (although the pair of books entitled

"Anglo-Saxon Food and Drink" gives a lot of useful comparative material

from the English side).

 

Literacy is a question that cuts across all cultural boundaries at this

period. Yes, there were literate people in 11th century Wales, but like

everywhere else, they were a fairly small minority, and mostly consisted

of people associated with the church.

 

A short starting reading list for this period might be:

 

Davies, Wendy. "Wales in the Early Middle Ages." Leicester Universtiy

Press, 1982 (ISBN 0-7185-1235-9)

 

Jenkins, Dafydd. "The Law of Hywel Dda." Gomer Press, 1986. (ISBN

0-86383-277-6)

 

Gerald of Wales. "The Journey Through Wales; The Description of Wales."

Penguin Books, 1978. (ISBN 0-14-044-339-8)

 

But to apply the information here in a practical fashion to SCA artifacts

and activities, you're also going to have to do a certain amount of

extrapolating from other, better-documented cultures.

 

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

 

 

From: maechyll at aol.com (Maechyll)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh sources needed

Date: 12 Oct 1998 03:13:04 GMT

 

"I share your pain".  One of the more practical sources I've found is, in fact,

published by the SCA.  It is a Compleat Anachronist that appeared a few years

back entitled" A Welsh Miscellany".  As back issues of CA are frequently

available, you may be able to track one down.  As I recall (my copy is packed

away in a box somewhere at the moment--we're moving), there is a fairly decent

bibliography included that may be of some help to you.

 

Good luck, and happy hunting--

 

Sir Maechyll of Maelienydd

 

 

Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:49:35 -0700

From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at earthlink.net>

To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu

Subject: Re: Tunic necklines

 

Kirsten Garner wrote:

> > I would also like to know more about 12th c. Welsh clothing, but

> > for women.

> > Is there anything for women in 'Cut My Cote', Thora?  I've never had much

> > luck finding anything on medieval Wales, except the usual castle pics.

[...]

> However, I'd recommend

> highly getting hold of all four volumes of Y Camamserid if you've got a

> Welsh persona - they're amazingly helpful and well-researched. :) That one

> article alone is worth the price of Volume 2. :) I think they're running

> about $12-$15 dollars a volume now. :)

>

> Mistress Tangwystl is also Mistress Keridwen who wrote the Compleat

> Anachronist #66 - Welsh Miscellany, for anyone out there who's curious. :)

>

> Julian ferch Rhys

 

Tangwystl also sells "Medieval Welsh Clothing to 1300", which, according

to the copyright notice, "this material appeared previously in a

slightly differen form as "Medieval Welsh Clothing to 1300" in Y

Camamseriad vol.2 published by Harpy Music."

 

I got my copy at AlterYears. The research into fabric colors and types

is fascinating.

 

ciorstan

 

 

From: indyroom at aol.com (INDYROOM)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh help

Date: 23 Jun 1999 23:56:17 GMT

 

Forth C. Wales was still plunged primarily into that transitional Romano-Brit

Period.

 

A good reference would be the Osprey Man-At-Arms Series Title "Arthur and the

Anglo-Saxon Wars". That's a bit at the end of the period you seek, but it's a

good starting point, with refs and all in back.

If you need more, email me, and I'll clunk upstairs and scrounge through my

library....

The Madog

 

 

From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh help

Date: 24 Jun 1999 00:32:22 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

BoskSCA (bosksca at aol.com) wrote:  

:      I have been looking in earnest for some information on 4th Century Wales

: and have come up with little or nothing out of it. Is there anyone that knows

: of a good reliable source I could get my hands on or look up on the web?

: Anything would be of help.

 

For that early a period, you're going to have to accept that there may

simply not be much direct information available for your desired focus,

and that you may have to do a fair amount of extrapolation in order to

fill out the concrete details of a persona or kit.

 

For the 4th century, you're more likely to find useful information by

looking for the heading "Roman Britain" rather than looking specifically

for Welsh material. While there is a certain amount of information

available on culture and artifacts in the region that became Wales in this

period, the relative unity of culture throughout most of Britain at that

time means that you can do a great deal of extrapolation from

better-documented sites and material in other areas of Britain. Even in

sources focussing specifically on Wales (as a geographic region) you may

find that the terms "Wales" and "Welsh" aren't applied this early -- the

linguistic and cultural distinctions between that region and the rest of

Britain hadn't developed enough yet at that period to make such a

distinction useful.

 

I'd hardly know where to start in recommending sources on Roman Britain in

general -- there are many excellant ones, and they'll lead you to more.

For a single one to start you off, try Stephen Johnson's "Later Roman

Britain", which is currently in print (in the "Britain Before the

Conquest" series) and is a nice, swallowable lump focussed pretty solidly

on your period of interest. For archaeological material from this period

in Wales specifically, there is a significant amount of material in

various issues of the journal _Archaeologia_Cambrensis_. I don't recall

running into any books proper on the topic of Roman Wales, and the era

tends to be scantily covered in more general books on Welsh history.

 

Tangwystyl

*********************************************************

Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

**********************************************************

 

 

From: dbrummel at mungedoi.com (David H Brummel)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Welsh help

Date: 24 Jun 99 13:56:38 GMT

Organization: Lough na Dobharchu

 

Replying to a message of hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu to All:

 

h> BoskSCA (bosksca at aol.com) wrote:

h> :

h> :      I have been looking in earnest for some information on 4th

h> :Century Wales

h> : and have come up with little or nothing out of it. Is

h> :there anyone that knows

h> : of a good reliable source I could get my

h> :hands on or look up on the web?

h> : Anything would be of help.

 

h> For that early a period, you're going to have to accept that there may

h> simply not be much direct information available for your desired

h> focus, and that you may have to do a fair amount of extrapolation in

h> order to fill out the concrete details of a persona or kit.

 

h> For the 4th century, you're more likely to find useful information by

h> looking for the heading "Roman Britain" rather than looking

h> specifically for Welsh material.

[snip]

h> I'd hardly know where to start in recommending sources on Roman Britain

h> in general -- there are many excellant ones, and they'll lead you to

h> more.

 

There was a very nice series entitled "Peoples of Roman Britain" begun by

Duckworth (in the early 70s?) and continued by Alan Sutton.  According to one

endflap:

 

"The aim of this series is to give a comprehensive picture of the archaeology

of Roman Britain - the first Roman province to have been treated in this way.

Each volume covers a single <i>civitas</i>, considering it as a unit with its

own traditions, settlement patterns and resources and judging how these were

influenced by the impact of Roman institutions.  The authors are well-known

archaeologitst who have been actively engaged in fieldwork and research in the

regions concerned."

 

Books in the series that I know of are (books I have are indicated with a *):

 

- The Regni by Barry Cunliffe

- The Cornovii by Graham Webster

* The Trinovantes by Rosalind Dunnett

* The Coritani by Malcolm Todd

- The Parisi by Herman Ramm

* The Cantiaci by Alec Detsicas

- The Carvetii by Nicholas Higham and Barri Jones

* The Catuvellauni by Keith Branigan

* The Brigantes by Brian Hartley and Leon Fitts

 

The volumes in this series run in the 150-225 page range, have extensive

bibliographies, and seem to be well footnoted and indexed.

 

David H. Brummel

 

 

From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh help

Date: 24 Jun 1999 18:39:08 GMT

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

David H Brummel (dbrummel at mungedoi.com) wrote:

: Replying to a message of hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu to All:

 

:  h> For the 4th century, you're more likely to find useful information by

:  h> looking for the heading "Roman Britain" rather than looking

:  h> specifically for Welsh material.

: [snip]

:  h> I'd hardly know where to start in recommending sources on Roman Britain

:  h> in general -- there are many excellant ones, and they'll lead you to

:  h> more.

 

: There was a very nice series entitled "Peoples of Roman Britain" begun by

: Duckworth (in the early 70s?) and continued by Alan Sutton.  According to one

: endflap:

 

<snip>

 

Yes, a truly excellant series -- particularly if one of the volumes covers

the particular tribe/area you're interested in. (I was particularly

grateful to this series when researching some fiction set in 1st c.

Britain.) They're a _smidge_ on the technical/archaeological side, so not

what I'd normally recommend for general reading unless I knew the person

had a good general grounding and was looking for that particular angle on

the material.  I'll try to put together a more comprehensive bibliography

in the next day or so, since it's one I collect books on.

 

Tangwystyl

*********************************************************

Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

**********************************************************

 

 

From: Willer <historyman at hotbot.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Costume 12th Century

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:51:59 -0500

Organization: Illinois State University

 

Try giving "Welsh Costume" by Ken Etheridge a try.

 

Gwyn ab Arddur wrote:

> I'm hoping someone can help me find a resource for Welsh clothing

> styles.  My local libraries have a few books that all cover English,

> German, French, Italian, but no Welsh references.  I am about to begin

> assembling the basics for clothing, and I want to be as accurate as I

> can.  I'll be making some standard t-tunics for my first events, but

> would like to get more elaborate later.

>

> Gwyn

 

 

From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Welsh Costume 12th Century

Date: 12 Sep 1999 16:47:18 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley

 

I haven't seen the original posting yet, so I'll piggy-back on this one.

 

Willer (historyman at hotbot.com) wrote:

: Try giving "Welsh Costume" by Ken Etheridge a try.

 

Unfortunately, Ken Etheridge's book is completely useless for SCA

purposes, since it is concerned with the origins of the modern Welsh "folk

costume" which dates no earlier than the 18th century.

 

: Gwyn ab Arddur wrote:

: > I'm hoping someone can help me find a resource for Welsh clothing

: > styles.  My local libraries have a few books that all cover English,

: > German, French, Italian, but no Welsh references.  I am about to begin

: > assembling the basics for clothing, and I want to be as accurate as I

: > can.  I'll be making some standard t-tunics for my first events, but

: > would like to get more elaborate later.

 

The short answer is that there are very few aspects in which period Welsh

clothing was distinctive from that of its neighboring cultures.  The long

answer is addressed in a booklet I put together (titled "Medieval Welsh

Clothing to 1300") that presents and discusses what evidence I have been

able to find (both written and pictorial) on the title subject. The

booklet is available from Potboiler Press and from Alter Years, but not

currently from me, alas.

 

Tangwystyl

*********************************************************

Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

**********************************************************

 

 

Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:54:28 MST

From: "Caley Woulfe" <cwoulfe at life.edu>

Subject: ANST - Fw: [TY] more poems

To: "Ansteorran List" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

 

From: Jean Corbin <JCorbin at celticcat.com>

To: TY at reashelm.ce.utk.edu <TY at reashelm.ce.utk.edu>

Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:50 PM

Subject: [TY] more poems

 

>From: THLady Amarath Jean yr Raven (1/2 Welsh, 1/2 Irish)

>           who loves good poetry and songs,

>

>In my library, I have a trio of books that Ye might find of intrest,

>acquired only this year through that honorable establishment of Barnes and

>Noble.

>

>1.. "A History of Wales" (Davies, John)

>       IBNS # 0-713-99098-8.....718 pages; excellent  info. for

>       our personas during medieval times.

>

>2...."Strongholds and Sanctuaries, the Borderland of England and

>        Wales" (Peters, Ellis &  Morgan, Roy) ISBN# 0-7509-

>        0200-0 ....and/or ....9-780-750-902007...184 pages. Color

>         photos throughout of castles, abbeies, and churches, and

>         battlefields, rivers and caves and standing stones, etc.

>         History such as: " In the last stages of the war of 1282

>         Llewelyn had gone south into the region of Builth to try

>         and raise further allies, while his brother David held the

>         position in the north as well as he could. Not far from

>         these rocks (in the photo), wher the little River Edw

>         empties into the Wye under these rocks,   Llewelyn was

>         killed in the last throes of a fight that had declimated his

>         forces in his absence, a local man having betrayed to the

>         English a secret ford which enabled them to cross the river

>         undetected and surround the Welsh, who had expected

>         attack only by the bridge. After Llewelyn's death David,

>         so long uncertain in his loyalties, assumed the burden his

>         brother had left behind, and carried it faithfully to its

>         tragic end."

>

>3. ..."The Triumph Tree" (edited by Clancy, Thomas Owen)

>        ISBN# 0-86241-787-2 Scotland's earliest poetry ; 6th

>        century to 1350 A.D...Translated from Latin, Welsh,

>        Gaelic, Old English, and Norse..With a pronounciation

>        guide (Welsh and Gaelic) for words, place-names,  and

>        Personal-names.

 

 

From: hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu ()

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Looking for sources for info on early period Welsh culture & garb

Date: 5 Nov 1999 18:38:02 GMT

Organization: University of California at Berkeley

 

hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu wrote:

: KBennett (kbennett at tampabay.rr.com) wrote:

: : If anyone can recommend a good source for information on early-period (6th

: : century) Welsh culture, I would be extremely grateful. I've been unable to

: : find many sources for garb research for that culture & time period, and have

: : found none with illustrations of garb specific to that region. Please email

: : me since I probably won't get to check the postings until weeks from now.

: : email address is kbennett at tampabay.rr.com

 

: This response is basically a "bookmark" so I can find the thread again

: when I'm back home with my books.

 

Now, then, where was I? Sixth century Wales is an _extremely_ hard time

and place to research for an SCA persona -- the historian have a hard

enough time scraping together enough information to determine which of the

later-recorded kings of that period were real people and which ones were

entirely fictitious. A good, single-source introduction to the general

history and culture of 5-1th c. Wales is "Wales in the Early Middle Ages"

by Wendy Davies (Leicester University Press).

 

There is _no_ direct evidence on Welsh clothing of this period -- no

archaeological finds, no pictorial evidence, not even any solidly

contemporary descriptions. The best that can be managed is to take the

clothing of Roman Britain as a starting point, the very little evidence on

Welsh clothing from the early end of the high medieval period, the

developments of sub-Roman styles in France and similar places as a

possible parallel, and the clothing of Anglo-Saxon English as a probably

influence ... and then give it your best reasonable guess. But it isn't a

process that's going to work well if you're looking for a single source to

tell you "this is the Truth, this is exactly how to do it".

 

Tangwystyl

*********************************************************

Heather Rose Jones         hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

**********************************************************

 

 

From: "Britannia Webmaster" <webmaster at arthurian.freeuk.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Looking for sources for info on early period Welsh culture & garb

Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:10:29 GMT

 

You may want to have a look at our site for ideas on clothing/life of that

peiod, although not specifiacally welsh, it covers most things,

I believe there is an article somewher on the site about warfare in wales,

it was a while ago, I loaded that article onto our site

 

Matt Crosby

Britannia Webmaster

http://www.arthurian.freeuk.com

 

 

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:55:13 EDT

From: Elysant at aol.com

Subject: SC - Re: OT Middle English letters, pronounciation, accents.

 

<< > Also- infrequently- you might find a 'D',

> capital or lower case, with a line through it. It is another symbol for

> the 'th' sound and can be treated just like a thorn.

 

Except the D is voiced and the thorn is not.  The difference between

Them and think.

  >>

 

For those of you interested in Welsh, this difference (voiced/unvoiced "th"

sounds) is still kept in our language - the unvoiced "th" being written as

"th", and the voiced "th" being written as "dd".  "Mynydd" (mountain) is

pronounced "Muh-nith".

 

To tell the difference between voiced and unvoiced, we were taught in school

in Britain that when one says the "voiced" "th", if one puts two fingers over

one's Adam's Apple as one says the "th" sound, that there is a vibration

felt. (e.g. "them"), whereas with the "unvoiced" "the"  (e.g. "think") -

there is no vibration felt.

 

I also was someone who had the privilege of being able to listen to

recordings of Middle English when I was doing my English "A" level curriculum

years ago.  IIRC, the intonation sounded almost like a west country (of

England) e.g. Somerset "burr", although I believe (again IIRC) I seem to

remember being taught that the closest remnant to the pronunciation of Middle

English that still exists in modern day English local accents and dialects is

in Northhamptonshire and surrounding counties in a NW to WNW direction from

London.  

 

Back to Period Cookery :-)

 

Elysant

Who currently lives in Connecticut and hears that N.E. accent "ooaall" the

time around here ;-)

 

 

From: lordxbrew at aol.comohwell (xaviar)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Date: 18 Jul 2000 05:23:28 GMT

Subject: learn Welsh online

 

http://www.cs.brown.edu/fun/welsh/home.html

 

 

From: lindahl at pbm.com (Greg Lindahl)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Period Welsh harp music

Date: 29 Oct 2000 21:57:49 GMT

 

For those of you interested in period Welsh harp music, the following

CD is an extremely excellent rendition of some of the music in the ap

Huw manuscript, which is the oldest known manuscript recording the

Welsh harp tradition. This CD is great for not only showing that the

Ap Huw stuff is quite playable (and much of it would make great music

to sing a ballad to), but also it's an excellent example of how music

has evolved between the 16th century and the 19th century. The "other

world" is a set of 18th/19th century welsh harp manuscripts. If you

play a few tracks of each for someone, and then play random tracks and

ask which century the piece is from, most people will be able to hear

the difference.

 

Taylor, William. Two Worlds of the Welsh Harp (CD). Dorian Recordings,

1999. Includes Gosteg Dafyyd Athro, Y ddigan y droell, Kaniad y gwynn

bibydd, Kaniad ystafell, Kaniad bach ar y gogower, and Kaingk Dafydd

Broffwyd. The other material on the CD comes from the volumes of

Edward Jones' _Musical and Poetical Relicks of the Welsh

Bards_.

 

For  more info on the ap Huw manuscript, please see:

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ap_huw/

 

-- Gregory Blount

 

 

From: DC <uboru at erols.com>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Period Welsh harp music

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:42:27 -0500

 

It's a good CD, though Taylor's translation of the manuscript is not

held to be absolutely correct by all scholars, there are other

interpretations available. But...I do love the sound of a bray harp.

 

 

From: Heather Rose Jones <hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: 10th Century Welsh, looking to make Clothes, HELP

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:42:08 -0700

Organization: University of California, Berkeley

 

Morvran ab Thomas of Cardiff wrote:

> I am new to the SCA and i have chosen 10th Century Welsh and am having

> trouble finding the Clothing and food and such of the time and all for

> that area, can anyone help me???

>

> Morvran ab Thomas of Cardiff

> mka Jim

 

One of the reasons you're having trouble is that it's simply a very hard

culture-period combination to research.  Extremely little direct data,

and the indirect data needs to be used with care.  (An example of what I

mean by that:  the medieval Welsh law tracts include a fair amount of

information on clothing and food, but even though tradition has them

composed in the 10th century, the only surviving copies are 13th century

or later, and disentangling which details are relevant for which century

can be tricky.)

 

Despite the aforementioned difficulties, a good place to start _is_

Dafydd Jenkins' edition of the law tracts, "The Law of Hywel Dda" (Gomer

Press), which is quite readable although it helps to have some more

general historic context to put the information into.  Also as good

background for the early medieval period (although much less useful for

details of material culture) is "Wales in the Early Middle Ages" by

Wendy Davies (for whom I get to TA this coming semester <gloat>).

 

Tangwystyl

*********

Heather Rose Jones

hrjones at socrates.berkeley.edu

*********

 

 

From: "Deigryn" <lposavad at bellatlantic.net>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: 15th century irish clothing

Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:35:45 GMT

 

Heather Rose Jones wrote :

< To the best of my knowledge, there are no medieval archaeological

garments surviving from Wales, nor do I know of any surviving artistic

representations from Wales that indicate cut with that sort of

precision.  If there is, in fact, evidence that the Moy gown is similar

to cuts used in Wales, I would very much like to know it, because it

would be vastly more practical information on the topic than I've

managed to turn up in my own research.>

 

As it turns out, I contacted the Museum in Cariff via email as they

adverstised having extant clothing and this was their reply

 

"I am afraid that there are no pre 16th century Welsh articles of clothing in

our collections (or anywhere else as far as I know); a few  portraits exist

in the Art Department Collections, which may be of help to you; in terms of

accessories, the Department of Archaeology may be able to help you.

There are very few pieces of furniture of 16th century date or earlier."

 

Rainillt

Rainillt at yahoo.com

 

From: kmarsh at cox-internet.com

Date: October 20, 2004 2:15:56 PM CDT

To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] Welsh history and songs

 

A few of the folks in the newcomer's household expressed an

interest in Welsh personnae but were having some trouble

finding information.  This may help.

 

The Web site at http://home.worldonline.dk/kmariboe/fgspwelsh.html

includes a broad overview of Welsh history with citations to

several scholarly works and some snippets of early Welsh

poetry.  Note that some of the information and some of the

works cited are outdated in the eyes of current scholars,

but the overview should provide you with some names and

dates that you can research further if you wish.

 

For MIDI files and lyrics to traditional Welsh music see

http://www.newi.ac.uk/buckleyc/welshmidi/welshmusic.htm .  

A similar site at http://www.ligtel.com/~wales/Welshmusic.html

seems to have more english-language lyrics including those

for the song "Myfanwy" which was undoubtedly written to our

esteemed seneschal by a rejected suitor.  :)

 

Actually, I have no confidence that any of the songs on

these two sites are pre-17th century.

 

I found citations with dates for a few songs from the

medieval period, but I don't know what sources were used to

determine these dates:

Dau filgi (Two greyhounds) c.1470

Claddu'r bardd o gariad (The burial of the lovesick bard) c.1340-1400

Hiraeth am yr haf (Yearning for summer) c.1340-1400

 

You can get them on a CD at http://www.claudiorecords.com/welshsongs.html

 

Maelgwyn Dda, your friendly neighborhood Librarian

 

<the end>



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