Russia-msg - 12/19/09 ਀ഊRussian and Kievian Culture and language. ਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: fd-Russia-msg, Rus-Handbook-art, Rus-women-art, Russia-bib, Kiev-Slavery-art, Mongols-msg, Mongl-Mission-art, cl-Russia-msg. ਀ഊ************************************************************************ ਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀 渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀 愀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 最椀瘀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 椀猀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous ਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************ ਀ഊFrom: kpayne at heartland.bradley.EDU (Kevin Payne) ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㈀ 伀挀琀 㤀㄀ 　㐀㨀　㘀㨀㄀㈀ 䜀䴀吀ഊ ਀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 刀椀愀氀琀漀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 氀漀渀最ⴀ愀戀猀攀渀琀 一椀欀漀氀愀椀ഊKyrilovich Khorobrit! Now that I have caught up on my ਀爀攀愀搀椀渀最Ⰰ 䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 瀀漀猀琀 愀 昀攀眀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀猀⸀ഊ ਀䄀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 眀攀攀欀猀 戀愀挀欀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 猀漀洀攀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 ഊrole of the Scandanavian races in Russia, and of chivalry in ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀⸀  匀漀洀攀漀渀攀 愀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 猀琀愀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 匀眀攀搀攀猀 ഊconquered Russia, and I thought I'd better correct this, as ਀眀攀氀氀 愀猀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 椀琀攀洀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀礀 猀琀甀搀礀 愀渀搀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 猀栀漀眀 ഊto be misinformation. ਀ഊMy sources are: ਀ഊVolkoff, Vladimir, "Vladimir, The Russian Viking", Overlook ਀倀爀攀猀猀Ⰰ 圀漀漀搀猀琀漀挀欀Ⰰ 一攀眀 夀漀爀欀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㠀㐀ഊ ਀䘀攀渀渀攀氀氀Ⰰ⸀䨀⸀䰀⸀䰀⸀Ⰰ ∀䤀瘀愀渀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀 漀昀 䴀漀猀挀漀眀∀Ⰰ 䴀愀挀洀椀氀氀愀渀 ☀ 䌀漀⸀Ⰰ 一攀眀 ഊYork, 1961 ਀ഊCross, Samuel Hazzard and Sherbowitz-Wetzor, Olgerd, trans. ਀愀渀搀 攀搀⸀Ⰰ ∀吀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 倀爀椀洀愀爀礀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀 ⴀ 䰀愀甀爀攀渀琀椀愀渀 吀攀砀琀∀Ⰰ ഊMedieval Academey of America, Cambridge, Massachusetts, ਀㄀㤀㔀㌀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 猀琀漀爀礀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 㠀　　 䄀⸀䐀⸀ 漀爀 猀漀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 琀爀椀戀攀猀 ഊof the northern Russian plains (the town of Novgorod in ਀瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀 椀猀 渀愀洀攀搀⤀Ⰰ 搀攀猀瀀愀椀爀攀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最爀攀愀琀 甀瀀栀攀愀瘀愀氀猀 愀渀搀 氀愀挀欀 漀昀 ഊlaw and order in their lands, and so sought the aid of a group ਀漀昀 嘀椀欀椀渀最 瀀爀椀渀挀攀猀 ⠀嘀愀爀愀渀最椀愀渀 刀甀猀猀攀猀⤀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀栀椀攀昀攀猀琀 漀昀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 ഊRurik. This Rurik became the first Prince of Novgorod and is ਀猀愀椀搀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀攀搀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 爀漀礀愀氀 栀漀甀猀攀 漀昀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 ⠀愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 ഊare only two: the Rurikids, who died out in the 17th century ਀愀渀搀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀瀀氀愀挀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 刀漀洀愀渀漀瘀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀渀 愀 渀甀琀猀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀最攀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ∀挀愀氀氀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀渀挀攀猀∀Ⰰ ഊand Russian history is generally traced from this point. But ਀琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 猀椀稀愀戀氀攀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀洀攀渀琀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 渀愀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀⸀  伀渀攀 ഊschool (Norman) asserts that the Rus were a Scandanavian tribe ਀爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 挀氀漀猀攀氀礀 琀漀 琀栀攀 匀眀攀搀攀猀Ⰰ 䄀渀最氀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 嘀愀爀愀渀最椀愀渀猀 眀栀漀 挀愀洀攀 ഊinto Russia and imprinted their values and beliefs on the ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 渀漀戀椀氀椀琀礀⸀  吀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 ⠀匀氀愀瘀椀挀⤀ 爀攀昀甀琀攀猀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 挀氀愀椀洀椀渀最 ഊinstead that the Rus were Slavic in origin, with perhaps a ਀猀洀愀琀琀攀爀椀渀最 漀昀 匀挀愀渀搀愀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 攀氀攀洀攀渀琀猀⸀  ഊ ਀䄀氀氀 漀昀 洀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀⸀  吀栀攀 ഊPrimary Chronicle claims that Rurik and his two brothers were ਀昀爀漀洀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 琀栀攀 䈀愀氀琀椀挀愀渀搀 眀攀爀攀 椀渀搀攀攀搀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀㬀 愀爀挀栀愀攀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 ഊevidence seems in many cases to point to the Slavic theory. ਀ഊIn any case, there WAS siginificant contact between the Slavic ਀琀爀椀戀攀猀 愀渀搀 匀挀愀渀搀愀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 最爀漀甀瀀猀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀 匀眀攀搀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀 ഊVarangians are known to have traveled the river routes from ਀琀栀攀 䈀愀氀琀椀挀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䈀氀愀挀欀 匀攀愀 琀漀 䌀漀渀猀琀愀渀琀椀渀漀瀀氀攀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀氀礀 搀甀爀椀渀最 ഊthe 9th through 11th centuries, and the first Russian empire ਀挀攀渀琀攀爀攀搀 漀渀 䬀椀攀瘀 眀愀猀 愀 最爀攀愀琀 琀爀愀搀攀 挀椀琀礀 漀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 琀爀愀搀攀 爀漀甀琀攀猀⸀ഊThe Arabs too were involved in trade through the region. ਀吀栀爀漀眀 椀渀 琀栀攀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 椀渀挀攀猀猀愀渀琀 椀渀挀甀爀猀椀漀渀猀 漀昀  渀漀洀愀搀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 ഊeast (Polovtsians, Khazars, eventually the Mongols) and you ਀栀愀瘀攀 愀 爀攀愀氀 洀攀氀琀椀渀最 瀀漀琀⸀ഊ ਀䠀伀圀䔀嘀䔀刀Ⰰ 刀甀猀猀椀愀 眀愀猀 渀攀瘀攀爀 ∀挀漀渀焀甀攀爀攀搀∀ 戀礀 琀栀攀 匀眀攀搀攀猀 漀爀 愀渀礀 ഊScandanavian group, nor by the Byzantine Empire, and indeed, ਀渀攀瘀攀爀 戀礀 琀栀攀 洀愀渀礀 渀漀洀愀搀椀挀 琀爀椀戀攀猀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 䠀漀爀搀攀 椀渀 ഊthe 13th century. In fact, the Viking element (assuming that it ਀攀砀椀猀琀攀搀 愀渀搀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 昀漀氀欀⤀ 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀ഊwhat it did in places such as England: i.e., merged into the ਀洀愀椀渀猀琀爀攀愀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ∀挀漀洀洀漀渀∀ 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 渀愀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 挀栀椀瘀愀氀爀礀 椀渀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 ഊEurope, Russia in particular. Given the close contact between ਀琀栀攀 匀挀愀渀搀愀渀愀瘀椀愀渀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 漀昀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 ഊ(Novgorod and Pskov in particular) were members of loose ਀琀爀愀搀椀渀最 挀漀渀昀攀搀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 戀愀猀攀搀 椀渀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀礀 ⠀攀瘀攀渀琀甀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀 ഊHanseatic League), and Kievan Russia maintained distinct ties ਀眀椀琀栀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀甀洀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 愀猀 琀栀攀 氀愀渀搀猀 眀攀猀琀眀愀爀搀 漀昀 䬀椀攀瘀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 ഊobvious that Russia did not exist in a vacuum. ਀ഊI haven't done any specific reserach on chivalry in Russia, but ਀挀愀渀 瀀漀椀渀琀 漀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 ∀戀漀最愀琀礀爀椀∀ 眀攀爀攀 最爀攀愀琀 欀渀椀最栀琀猀 眀栀漀 ഊparticipated in fantastic adventures and apparently strove to be ਀戀爀愀瘀攀Ⰰ 猀琀爀漀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀攀昀攀渀搀攀爀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀攀愀欀⸀  䴀愀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 愀爀攀 ഊlegendary (Ilya Murametz, Svyatogor the Brave), but later ones ਀愀爀攀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀攀搀 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 椀渀 渀愀琀甀爀攀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀 ഊis probably safe to say that there was some conception of ਀挀栀椀瘀愀氀爀礀 椀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 眀愀猀 甀渀椀焀甀攀氀礀 猀甀椀琀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 甀渀椀焀甀攀 ഊchallenges of the land. ਀ഊThese facts are as true as I can relate them. The opinions are ਀洀礀 漀眀渀⸀  䌀漀爀爀攀猀瀀漀渀搀攀渀挀攀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 洀漀爀攀 攀搀甀挀愀琀攀搀 椀渀 ഊRussian history and culture is appreciated. Corrections ਀愀瀀瀀爀攀挀椀愀琀攀搀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀  䘀漀爀 最漀漀搀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 昀椀挀琀椀漀渀 瀀愀爀琀氀礀 愀戀漀甀琀ഊperiod Russia, read "Russka" by Edward Rutherfurd, 1991 from ਀䌀爀漀眀渀⸀ഊ------------------------------------------------------------------ ਀一椀欀漀氀愀椀 䬀礀爀椀氀漀瘀椀挀栀 䬀栀漀爀漀戀爀椀琀Ⰰ 䈀愀爀搀ഊReluctant Pursuivant Far Reaches, Middle Kingdom ਀ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀഊ ਀ഊFrom: cav at bmerh364.BNR.CA (Rick Cavasin) ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 㔀 䐀攀挀 㤀㄀ ㈀㄀㨀㔀㘀㨀　㄀ 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. ਀ഊUnto Alison MacDermot does Lord Balderik send his greetings. ਀ഊFor some interesting info on personal communications, see ਀一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀Ⰰ 䴀⸀圀⸀ 吀栀漀洀瀀猀漀渀  䘀爀攀搀攀爀椀挀欀 䄀⸀ 倀爀愀攀最攀爀Ⰰ 一攀眀 夀漀爀欀ഊA large volume of birch bark manuscripts (spanning the middle ages) ਀栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀渀攀愀爀琀栀攀搀 椀渀 一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀⸀  吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 洀漀猀琀氀礀 ✀猀瀀攀渀琀✀ 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ഊThey include personal communication between family members, messages ਀昀爀漀洀 氀愀渀搀漀眀渀攀爀猀 琀漀 漀瘀攀爀猀攀攀爀猀Ⰰ 挀栀椀氀搀爀攀渀✀猀 氀攀猀猀漀渀猀 愀渀搀 搀漀漀搀氀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ഊThe script is an old form of cyrillic. ਀ഊRegards, ਀䈀愀氀搀攀爀椀欀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: fnklshtn at axp1.acf.nyu.edu ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Russian sources?? ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㐀 一漀瘀 㤀㌀ 　㈀㨀㄀㜀㨀㌀　 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: New York University, NY, NY ਀ഊbpung at phoenix.cs.uga.edu (Benjamin Pung) writes: ਀㸀䤀 愀洀 愀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀 渀攀眀 洀攀洀戀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 䤀✀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀挀焀甀愀椀渀琀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 昀漀爀ഊ>years. I'm working on the name/persona thing and am looking for good sources ਀㸀昀漀爀 愀瀀瀀氀椀挀愀戀氀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀Ⰰ 挀甀猀琀漀洀猀Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀甀洀攀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ഊ>Any help would be greatly appreciated. ਀㸀ഊ>Ben Pung ਀㸀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 䈀爀礀渀 䴀愀搀漀挀Ⰰ 䴀攀爀椀搀椀攀猀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀 ⴀ 愀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 愀猀 琀栀椀渀最猀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀攀搀 ⠀攀渀搀猀Ⰰ 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀Ⰰഊin 12th century). ਀ഊRead the fairytales and Sagas. I think they were collected and written down ਀愀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 爀攀瘀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 瀀攀愀猀愀渀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 ∀戀愀挀欀眀愀爀搀∀ ⴀⴀ 倀攀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀ഊmodernized the nobles by bringing in European culture but the nobles basically ਀戀攀挀愀洀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 挀漀洀戀椀渀椀渀最 椀琀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 愀 渀攀眀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀Ⰰ 琀栀甀猀 琀栀攀ഊpeasants retained what had been before. ਀圀愀琀挀栀 琀栀攀 漀氀搀 猀漀瘀椀攀琀 洀漀瘀椀攀猀 ⴀ ∀䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 一攀瘀猀欀椀∀ ∀䤀瘀愀渀 䜀爀漀猀渀礀∀ ∀䄀渀搀爀攀椀 刀甀戀氀攀瘀∀㨀ഊI noticed the credits on Andrei Rublev - they included three history experts as ਀漀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 漀渀攀 挀漀猀琀甀洀攀 搀攀猀椀最渀攀爀⸀ 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 琀爀甀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊtwo movies though "Alexander Nevski" is a propaganda piece as is "Ivan Grosny" ਀⠀琀栀漀甀最栀 渀漀琀 愀猀 戀氀愀琀愀渀琀⤀⸀ഊAndrei Rublev is probably the best one - a poignant, no-holds bared portrait of ਀㄀㔀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 ⠀琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 攀礀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀猀琀 ⴀ 刀甀戀氀攀瘀⤀ഊ ਀一愀栀甀洀 ഊ ਀ഊFrom: mcs at unlinfo.unl.edu (M Straatmann) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: kvas reference ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㤀 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ ㈀㈀㨀㐀㘀㨀㈀㐀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln ਀ഊIn my last post discussing kvas with Balderik, I promised the ਀爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 瀀爀漀洀瀀琀氀礀 昀漀爀最漀琀 琀漀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀 椀琀⸀  䠀攀爀攀 椀琀 椀猀㨀ഊ ਀䈀爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 匀愀氀琀ഊA social and economic history of food and drink in Russia. ਀刀⸀䔀⸀䘀⸀ 匀洀椀琀栀 愀渀搀 䐀愀瘀椀搀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀ഊCambridge University Press 1984 ਀䤀匀䈀一 ⴀ 　 㔀㈀㄀ ㈀㔀㠀㄀㈀堀ഊ ਀䜀漀漀搀 戀漀漀欀Ⰰഊmisha ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 最漀氀搀猀挀栀洀 愀琀 甀砀㄀⸀挀猀漀⸀甀椀甀挀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀倀愀甀氀 䜀漀氀搀猀挀栀洀椀搀琀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 一愀洀攀猀ഊDate: 30 Nov 1993 22:36:35 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 䤀氀氀椀渀漀椀猀 愀琀 唀爀戀愀渀愀ഊ ਀䤀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 洀椀猀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 琀栀爀攀愀搀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀攀愀爀搀 琀栀愀琀ഊmy artcuile from the symposium was mentioned and I thought that I ਀眀漀甀氀搀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 愀 爀攀瘀椀猀攀搀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 漀昀 椀琀 椀猀 戀攀椀渀最 挀愀爀爀椀攀搀 戀礀ഊFolump Enterprises, 805 E Green, Urbana IL 61801. The cost (I ਀琀栀椀渀欀⤀ 椀猀 ␀㔀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 眀爀椀琀攀 昀漀爀 椀渀昀漀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 愀氀猀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 氀椀猀琀 漀昀 挀椀琀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀漀眀渀猀 椀渀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀ഊcan send to interested parties at cost, and I am working on a list ਀漀昀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 猀愀椀渀琀猀 ⠀最漀漀搀 昀漀爀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀椀渀最 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀 渀愀洀攀猀⤀⸀ഊMeanwhile I have been slaving away on a dictionary of given names ਀⠀眀椀琀栀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 ㄀㈀䬀 攀渀琀爀椀攀猀 猀漀 昀愀爀 ⴀⴀ 栀攀愀搀椀渀最 琀漀 㐀　欀⤀⸀  䤀✀洀 攀瘀攀渀 猀琀愀爀琀椀渀最ഊwork on a much expanded piece on Russian medieval grammar for ਀伀渀漀洀愀猀琀椀挀猀⸀  ഊ ਀夀漀甀 挀愀渀 爀攀愀挀栀 洀攀 愀琀 䜀伀䰀䐀匀䌀䠀䴀 愀琀 瘀洀搀⸀挀猀漀⸀甀椀甀挀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 渀漀琀 琀栀攀ഊaddress I am writing from). I'm hardly ever on the Rialto, so don't ਀琀爀礀 眀爀椀琀椀渀最 洀攀 栀攀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀ⴀⴀ 倀愀甀氀 圀椀挀欀攀渀搀攀渀 漀昀 吀栀愀渀攀琀 ഊ ਀ഊFrom: pwgg7938 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul W Goldschmidt) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Russian Names III ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀ 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ 　㄀㨀　㜀㨀　㜀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana ਀ഊ finally found the thread. ਀ഊI feel obliged to respond to the person who said that Russian had not ਀挀栀愀渀最攀搀 琀栀愀琀 洀甀挀栀 猀椀渀挀攀 ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  䤀 眀椀漀缀眀漀甀氀搀 愀最爀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 栀愀猀ഊb not changed much sinmce 1720, but that is post period. Older ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀 琀攀砀琀猀 ⠀㄀㄀ⴀ㄀㔀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 攀砀愀洀瀀氀攀⤀ 愀爀攀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 椀渀 伀氀搀 䌀栀甀爀挀栀ഊSlabonic (Slavonic -- I was transliterating) [God, I hate the editor ਀漀渀 琀栀椀猀 洀愀挀栀椀渀攀℀  䄀渀礀眀愀礀⸀⸀⸀⸀崀  吀栀攀 漀氀搀 搀漀挀猀 愀爀攀 椀渀 伀䌀匀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 嘀䔀刀夀ഊdifferent from Modern Russian. Never mind that some period manuscripts ਀愀爀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 椀渀 氀愀琀椀渀 氀攀琀琀攀爀猀 ⠀眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 嘀䔀刀夀 瀀愀椀渀昀甀氀 琀漀 爀攀愀搀⤀⸀  䄀猀 昀漀爀ഊthe Names....well, they are also very different. The modern form ਀⠀最椀瘀攀渀 渀愀洀攀ⴀ瀀愀琀爀漀渀礀洀椀挀ⴀ猀甀爀渀愀洀攀⤀ 攀砀椀猀琀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 渀漀琀 挀漀洀洀漀渀⸀  倀愀琀爀漀渀礀洀椀挀ഊgrammar was also highly variable (I've documented at least a dozen ਀搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 琀礀漀砀砀砀砀砀   琀甀瀀攀猀  嬀愀爀最℀℀℀崀  吀夀倀䔀匀 嬀℀崀 漀昀 瀀愀琀爀漀渀礀洀椀挀猀⤀⸀ഊ ਀䤀昀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 欀渀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 眀爀椀琀攀 洀攀 漀渀 洀礀 伀吀䠀䔀刀 愀挀挀漀甀渀琀 ⠀琀栀攀 漀渀攀ഊwith the friedly -- fried.....FRIENDLY!!! editor that does not make me ਀氀漀漀欀 猀漀 戀愀搀 㨀㰀  㨀∀  㨀✀ഊ ਀最漀氀搀猀挀栀洀 愀琀 瘀洀搀⸀挀猀漀⸀甀椀甀挀⸀攀搀甀ഊ ਀ⴀⴀ 倀愀甀氀 圀椀挀欀攀渀搀攀渀 漀昀 吀栀愀渀攀琀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: sclark at epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Kievan Rus' Bibliography..... ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㔀 䨀愀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㐀 ㄀㔀㨀㐀㔀㨀㐀㈀ ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto ਀ഊGreetings.... ਀ऀ䄀渀搀 渀漀眀Ⰰ 愀 洀漀渀琀栀 愀昀琀攀爀 䤀 昀椀爀猀琀 猀愀椀搀 䤀✀搀 瀀漀猀琀 椀琀Ⰰ 栀攀爀攀✀猀 洀礀ഊintroductory bibliography for the study of early Russia-- ਀ഊCross, S.H. and Sherbovitz-Wetzor, O.P., eds. _The Russian Primary ਀䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀Ⰰ 䰀愀甀爀攀渀琀椀愀渀 吀攀砀琀⸀  䌀愀洀戀爀椀搀最攀Ⰰ 䴀䄀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㔀㌀⸀ഊ ਀䘀攀搀漀琀漀瘀Ⰰ 䜀⸀ 开吀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 刀攀氀椀最椀漀甀猀 䴀椀渀搀㨀  嘀漀氀 䤀㨀 䬀椀攀瘀愀渀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀椀琀礀㨀 吀栀攀ഊTenth to the Thirteenth Centures_. Cambridge, MA, 1946. ਀ഊFr.Chirovsky, Nicholas. _An Introduction to Ukrainian History_, Vol.I. ਀一攀眀 夀漀爀欀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㠀㄀⸀ഊ ਀䴀椀挀栀攀氀氀Ⰰ 刀⸀ 愀渀搀 䘀漀爀戀攀猀Ⰰ 一⸀ 琀爀愀渀猀⸀ 开吀栀攀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀 漀昀 一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀Ⰰ ㄀　㄀㘀ⴀ㄀㐀㜀㄀⸀开ഊCamden Third Series, Vol. XXV. london 1914. ਀ഊRiasanovsky, Nicholas V. _A History of Russia_. New York, 1984. ਀ഊThompson, M.W. _Novgorod the Great_. London, 1967. ਀ഊTikhirmirov, M. N. _The Towns of Ancient Rus'._ Moscow, 1959. ਀ഊTkach, Yuri. _History of Ukrainian Costume._ Melbourne, 1980. ਀ഊVernadsky, George. _Kievan Russia_. New Haven, 1948. ਀ഊ________________. _Medieval Russian Laws._ New York, 1947. ਀ഊVolkoff, Vladimir. _Vladimir, the Russian Viking_. Woodstock, NY, 1985. ਀ഊZenkovsky, Serge A. _Medieval Russia's Epics, Chronicles, and Tales._ ਀一攀眀 夀漀爀欀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㜀㐀⸀ഊ ਀䴀漀爀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀搀搀攀搀 愀猀 洀礀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 瀀爀漀最爀攀猀猀攀猀ⴀⴀ琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 戀漀漀欀 漀渀 栀攀爀攀ഊwhich I have not personally read. All these books are in English and ਀猀漀洀攀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 戀漀漀欀猀琀漀爀攀猀⸀  䴀礀 愀瀀漀氀漀最椀攀猀 昀漀爀 渀漀琀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀椀渀最ഊcomplete publisher info--e-mail me if you need it. ਀ഊTonight I give the first meeting in preparation for the Novgorod event. ਀圀攀爀攀 椀琀 渀漀琀 昀漀爀 洀礀 最爀攀愀琀 氀漀瘀攀 漀昀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀ⰀഊI think I would have dropped this organization forever about 15 minutes ਀愀最漀⸀ഊ ਀匀琀⸀ 䐀漀甀最Ⰰ 瀀爀漀琀攀挀琀 甀猀⸀ഊNicolaa/Susan ਀䌀愀渀琀漀渀 漀昀 䔀漀昀漀爀眀椀挀ഊsclark at epas.utoronto.ca ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瀀礀甀愀焀 愀琀 挀猀瘀⸀眀愀爀眀椀挀欀⸀愀挀⸀甀欀 ⠀䴀爀 䜀 匀 匀甀琀栀攀爀氀愀渀搀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀椀琀礀 儀甀椀稀⸀⸀⸀ഊDate: 17 Mar 1994 13:01:59 -0000 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 圀愀爀眀椀挀欀Ⰰ 䌀漀瘀攀渀琀爀礀Ⰰ 唀䬀ഊ ਀匀甀猀愀渀 䌀氀愀爀欀 ⠀猀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 攀瀀愀猀⸀甀琀漀爀漀渀琀漀⸀挀愀⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ ਀⬀ ㄀㌀⸀⤀ 圀栀攀渀 搀椀搀 猀琀⸀ 嘀氀愀搀椀洀椀爀 䌀漀渀瘀攀爀琀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 漀昀昀椀挀椀愀氀氀礀 琀漀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀椀琀礀㼀ഊ+ (Bonus points for anyone who can tell me why he supposedly did so) ਀ഊ It was somewhere around 988. ਀ഊ Why? Firstly, it was to bring the Rus into the European political ਀猀瀀栀攀爀攀⸀ 匀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 愀 戀甀渀挀栀 漀昀 栀攀愀琀栀攀渀猀 ⠀䜀漀漀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀洀℀⤀ 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀ഊostracised by the Christian kings who shared their borders. Apparently the ਀挀栀漀椀挀攀 漀昀 爀攀氀椀最椀漀渀 眀愀猀 琀愀欀攀渀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 氀椀猀琀㨀ഊ ਀ऀ刀漀洀愀渀 䌀愀琀栀漀氀椀挀椀猀洀 ⠀刀攀樀攀挀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 渀漀 最氀漀爀礀 椀渀 椀琀猀ഊ worship.) ਀ऀ䤀猀氀愀洀 ⠀刀攀樀攀挀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 最椀瘀攀 甀瀀 搀爀椀渀欀⸀ 䈀甀琀ഊ Vladimir did like the multiple wives teaching... ) ਀ऀ䨀甀搀愀椀猀洀 ⠀刀攀樀攀挀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 䬀栀愀稀愀爀猀 氀椀瘀攀搀 椀渀 瀀漀漀爀 挀漀渀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀⸀ഊ Ergo it was interpreted as them not having God with them.) ਀ऀ䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 伀爀琀栀漀搀漀砀礀 ⠀䄀挀挀攀瀀琀攀搀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 最氀漀爀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀栀甀爀挀栀攀猀Ⰰഊ and the beauty of the liturgy.) ਀ഊ Part of the agreement of the conversion was that Vlamidir would get ਀琀漀 洀愀爀爀礀 琀栀攀 䔀洀瀀攀爀漀爀✀猀 猀椀猀琀攀爀 ⠀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀 昀攀洀愀氀攀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀 ⴀ 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀⸀⤀ഊShe was especially prized since she was born in the palace at Byzantium. (I ਀搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀礀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀⤀ഊ ਀ऀ唀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀氀礀 琀栀攀 䔀洀瀀攀爀漀爀 椀渀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀甀洀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀 愀瀀瀀爀攀挀椀愀琀攀 琀栀攀 搀攀洀愀渀搀猀ഊthat the Rus' church would be autonomous from the central church, and that ਀嘀氀愀搀椀洀椀爀 眀椀猀栀攀搀 琀漀 洀愀爀爀礀 栀椀猀 猀椀猀琀攀爀⼀眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀⸀ 䠀攀渀挀攀 栀攀 爀攀昀甀猀攀搀 琀漀 猀攀渀搀 瀀爀椀攀猀琀猀ഊto carry out the conversion. In retalliation, Vladimir attacked, and conquered ਀琀栀攀 䌀爀椀洀攀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 挀愀瀀琀甀爀攀搀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 瀀爀椀攀猀琀猀 琀漀 搀漀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 栀椀洀⸀⸀⸀㨀⤀ഊHe then ransomed it back to the Byzantines so that his demands were carried ਀漀甀琀⸀ 䔀瘀攀渀琀甀愀氀氀礀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀 洀愀渀愀最攀搀 琀漀 最攀琀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀攀 眀愀猀 挀愀渀漀渀椀稀攀搀 洀愀渀礀ഊyears after his death. (Russia's first saints were Boris and Gleb - Vladimir ਀眀愀猀渀✀琀 瀀爀漀洀漀琀攀搀 昀漀爀 猀漀 氀漀渀最 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 栀攀 栀愀搀 愀渀渀漀礀攀搀 琀栀攀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀渀攀猀 猀漀 洀甀挀栀 眀椀琀栀ഊthe above...) ਀ഊ Graeme ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 猀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 攀瀀愀猀⸀甀琀漀爀漀渀琀漀⸀挀愀 ⠀匀甀猀愀渀 䌀氀愀爀欀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 一椀昀琀礀 䈀漀漀欀⸀⸀⸀ഊDate: 22 Mar 1994 00:21:17 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䔀倀䄀匀 䌀漀洀瀀甀琀椀渀最 䘀愀挀椀氀椀琀礀Ⰰ 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 吀漀爀漀渀琀漀ഊ ਀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ While digging for yet more books on Medieval Russia, I found ਀琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最㨀ഊ _The Archaeology of Novgorod, Russia_, Mark Brisbane, ed. ਀⠀匀漀挀椀攀琀礀 昀漀爀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䄀爀挀栀愀攀漀氀漀最礀 洀漀渀漀最爀愀瀀栀 猀攀爀椀攀猀 ⌀㄀㌀⸀ 䰀椀渀挀漀氀渀㨀ഊSoceity for Medieval Archaeology, 1992. ISSN 0583-9106) ਀ऀ䘀漀爀 琀栀漀猀攀 漀昀 礀漀甀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 䴀⸀ 吀栀漀洀瀀猀漀渀✀猀 开一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀开Ⰰഊthis is sort of the sequel--it's an update of the dig in general, including ਀猀琀甀昀昀 琀栀愀琀✀猀 戀攀攀渀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 渀攀愀爀氀礀 ㌀　 礀攀愀爀猀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 瀀甀戀氀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀ഊof _Novgorod the Great_. Great drawings of all kinds of *stuff*, including ਀挀漀洀戀猀Ⰰ 猀栀漀攀猀Ⰰ 欀攀礀猀 愀渀搀 氀漀挀欀猀Ⰰ 眀攀愀瀀漀渀猀Ⰰ 樀攀眀攀氀氀攀爀礀Ⰰ 栀漀甀猀攀 昀漀甀渀搀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰഊmusical instruments, etc. etc. Novgorod is an extremely damp site ਀⠀琀栀攀礀 戀甀椀氀琀 氀漀最 栀漀甀猀攀猀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 搀甀最ⴀ漀甀琀 栀漀甀猀攀猀 氀椀欀攀 椀渀 䬀椀攀瘀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 漀昀ഊthis), so wooden objects have been preserved reallly well. ਀ഊHave fun.... ਀ഊNicolaa/Susan ਀⠀眀栀漀✀猀 昀攀攀氀椀渀最 瘀攀爀礀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 栀攀爀愀氀搀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀攀渀挀椀渀最 琀漀甀爀渀攀礀ഊat Ice dragon kept calling me "Nicolai") ਀䌀愀渀琀漀渀 漀昀 䔀漀昀漀爀眀椀挀ഊsclark at epas.utoronto.ca ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 攀琀挀栀洀愀渀 愀琀 猀栀攀氀氀⸀瀀漀爀琀愀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀倀栀椀氀椀瀀 ⴀ 吀甀氀攀礀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀甀猀猀椀愀渀 椀渀昀漀ഊDate: 30 Jun 1994 18:31:16 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 倀漀爀琀愀氀 䌀漀洀洀甀渀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀猀 䌀漀洀瀀愀渀礀ഊ ਀匀甀猀愀渀 刀愀挀栀攀氀 ⠀匀甀猀愀渀⸀刀愀挀栀攀氀 愀琀 昀㔀㔀㔀⸀渀㌀㠀㜀⸀稀㄀⸀昀椀搀漀渀攀琀⸀漀爀最⤀ 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ: I'd like to apologize to everyone who has patiently awaited the arrival of ਀㨀  琀栀椀猀 戀椀氀椀漀最爀愀瀀栀礀⸀  䤀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 栀漀瀀攀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 愀氀氀 昀椀渀搀 椀琀 眀漀爀琀栀 琀栀攀 眀愀椀琀℀ഊ: These are the books that we own. Consult the bibliographies in them and you ਀㨀  猀栀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 䠀唀䜀䔀 漀瘀攀爀愀氀氀 戀椀戀氀椀漀最爀愀瀀栀礀 琀漀 挀栀漀漀猀攀 昀爀漀洀⸀  䔀渀樀漀礀℀℀ഊ ਀㨀 䬀愀稀椀洀椀爀 倀攀琀爀漀瘀椀挀栀 倀漀洀攀猀栀愀渀漀瘀ഊ: mka Brent Rachel ਀ഊ: (and his lovely assistant on keyboards this evening, Cathlin mka Susan ਀㨀 刀愀挀栀攀氀⤀ഊ: --------- ਀㨀 䘀椀搀漀渀攀琀㨀  匀甀猀愀渀 刀愀挀栀攀氀 ㄀㨀㌀㠀㜀⼀㔀㔀㔀ഊ: Internet: Susan.Rachel at f555.n387.z1.fidonet.org ਀ഊHello to the tallest damn Russian I ever met and his most lovely lady! ਀䈀攀椀渀最 ⨀猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀⨀ 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀ഊstandpoint but rather the Zhaprozian Cossack view, I'd like to suggest one ਀洀漀爀攀 戀漀漀欀⸀ഊThe Cossacks, By Philip Longworth, Holt, Rhinehart & Winston, 1969, ਀䰀䌀䌀⌀ 㜀㔀ⴀ㠀　㌀㔀㌀⸀ഊThis book gives some insight into the early cossacks (late 15th and 16th ਀挀攀渀琀甀爀椀攀猀⤀ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 最漀攀猀 漀渀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀琀 漀昀 䌀漀猀猀愀挀欀搀漀洀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀 漀渀氀礀ഊdown side for me is that it doesn't focus enough on Zhaprozian cossacks. ਀⠀䤀渀 昀愀椀爀渀攀猀猀Ⰰ 椀琀 猀瀀氀椀琀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 攀瘀攀渀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 䐀漀渀 挀漀猀猀愀挀欀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀搀 爀愀琀栀攀爀ഊit included more about my particular area.) ਀ഊThere are other sources, I'll try to post them later. ਀䄀氀攀欀猀愀渀搀爀 䤀瘀愀渀漀瘀椀挀栀ഊ--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ਀簀 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 䨀⸀ 吀甀氀攀礀 簀 䰀漀爀搀 䄀氀攀欀猀愀渀搀爀 䤀瘀愀渀漀瘀椀挀栀 簀 ∀⸀⸀⸀ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 愀渀最攀氀猀 栀愀搀    簀ഊ| etchman at shell. | Budischev, Wandering | guitars even before they | ਀簀 瀀漀爀琀愀氀⸀挀漀洀      簀 䌀漀猀猀愀挀欀 漀昀 䌀氀愀渀渀 伀 䌀栀漀搀愀 簀  栀愀搀 眀椀渀最猀⸀∀               簀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: nataliae at aol.com (Natalia E) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Russian Orthodox Saint Info ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㄀ 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㐀 ㈀㈀㨀㌀　㨀㌀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊ ਀䤀渀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 㰀　㐀　开㤀㐀㄀㈀　㠀　㔀　　 愀琀 眀洀攀漀渀氀椀渀⸀猀愀挀戀戀砀⸀挀漀洀㸀ⰀഊRob.Sturtevant at dt_wongy.wmeonlin.sacbbx.com (Rob Sturtevant) writes: ਀ഊWelcome Sasha: ਀ഊThere are many Russians running around in the East. You can read the ਀䐀漀洀漀猀琀爀漀礀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 戀礀 匀礀氀瘀攀猀琀攀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 洀椀最栀琀 栀攀氀瀀 礀漀甀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 愀 栀漀甀猀攀栀漀氀搀ഊguide to Russian families in the late 1500s. I don't know enough about ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀 愀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 挀攀氀攀戀爀愀琀椀渀最 猀愀椀渀琀✀猀 搀愀礀猀 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀猀欀攀搀 洀礀ഊbrother (also Sasha) to look into it. He might email you directly. Good ਀氀甀挀欀 愀渀搀 眀攀氀挀漀洀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 刀椀愀氀琀漀⸀ഊ ਀一愀琀愀氀椀椀愀 䄀渀愀猀琀愀猀椀椀愀 䔀瘀最攀渀漀瘀愀 匀瘀礀愀琀漀猀氀愀瘀椀渀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: pyotr at chinook.halcyon.com (Peter D. Hampe) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Russian Orthodox Saint Info ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㈀ 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㐀 ㈀㄀㨀㄀　㨀㔀㈀ 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: Northwest Nexus Inc. ਀ഊGreetings to all, from Nikolai Petrovich Flandrovov ਀ഊOn the subject of Russian celebrating birthdays vs name day ਀匀愀猀栀愀 䤀瘀愀渀漀瘀椀琀挀栀 䬀愀氀椀琀椀渀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ ਀㨀        䤀 愀洀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 渀攀眀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀漀挀椀攀琀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 樀甀洀瀀攀搀 椀渀 眀椀琀栀 戀漀琀栀ഊ:feet. After 7 months I've already done garb for others (fairly simple), and am ਀㨀琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 漀爀最愀渀椀稀攀 愀 搀攀洀漀 昀漀爀 愀 氀漀挀愀氀 猀挀栀漀漀氀⸀  䤀 愀洀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀爀漀甀戀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 昀攀眀ഊ:areas however... ਀㨀        䤀✀洀 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䤀 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 椀渀 洀礀 氀漀挀愀氀 最爀漀甀瀀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀ഊ:me, I have asked around! What I write you all about is this: I have read, in ਀㨀愀 戀漀漀欀 漀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 昀漀漀搀 ☀ 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀 漀昀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀栀攀 ㄀㤀琀栀ഊ:century were more likely to celebrate their "Name day" than a birthday. ਀㨀䄀瀀瀀愀爀愀渀琀氀礀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 氀椀欀攀 愀 戀椀爀琀栀搀愀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 搀愀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 匀愀椀渀琀 眀栀漀猀攀 渀愀洀攀 礀漀甀ഊ:bear. ਀ഊMore likely - you were named for the saint on whose name-day you were ਀戀漀爀渀⸀  椀攀 䐀攀稀攀洀戀攀爀 猀椀砀琀栀 椀猀 匀琀 一椀挀漀氀愀猀 搀愀礀 ⴀ 礀漀甀 最漀琀 琀愀最最攀搀 眀椀琀栀ഊNikolas. ਀ऀ伀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 栀愀渀搀 ⴀ 礀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 渀愀洀攀搀 愀昀琀攀爀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 ∀椀洀瀀漀爀琀愀渀琀∀ഊ- your uncle, grandfather, mother's brother's wifes's second cousin (the ਀漀渀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 洀漀渀攀礀⼀氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 礀愀 欀渀漀眀㼀⤀⸀ഊ Naming conventions depend on time place and personal whim. (I ਀欀渀漀眀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 眀栀漀✀猀 洀漀洀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 琀栀攀 ✀愀✀ 琀漀 愀渀 ✀漀✀ 愀渀搀 匀愀渀搀爀愀 戀攀挀愀洀攀ഊSondra ... which is not all that uncommon a name...) ਀㨀        圀栀愀琀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 欀渀漀眀 椀猀Ⰰ 眀愀猀 琀栀椀猀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀搀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 ⠀䘀漀爀 洀攀ഊ:mid-16th Cent.)? Where can I get a book or books that will tell me more about ਀㨀琀栀椀猀 ⠀漀爀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀⤀ 挀甀猀琀漀洀猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㼀  䄀渀搀 眀栀攀爀攀 挀愀渀 䤀 昀椀渀搀 漀甀琀 眀栀愀琀 搀愀礀 洀椀渀攀ഊ:would be one? (I'm looking for Aleksandr, or Alexander) ਀㨀        䄀猀 䤀 眀爀椀琀攀 琀栀椀猀 䤀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀 䤀 挀漀甀氀搀 愀猀欀 愀渀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 伀爀琀栀漀搀漀砀 瀀爀椀攀猀琀⸀⸀  䤀ഊ:should think of these things sooner! Though I suppose I have an excuse, having ਀㨀戀攀攀渀 爀愀椀猀攀搀 倀爀漀琀攀猀琀愀渀琀⸀⸀  㬀⤀ഊ ਀䴀愀礀 戀攀 礀攀猀Ⰰ 洀愀礀 戀攀 渀漀⸀ഊ: Many thanks in advance, and to all a pleasant Season! ਀㨀 ഊ: Sasha Ivanovitch Kalitin ਀ⴀⴀഊpyotr at halcyon.com Pyotr Filipivich, sometimes Owl. ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 嘀愀氀搀攀稀 愀琀 瀀漀氀椀猀挀椀⸀猀猀挀渀攀琀⸀甀挀氀愀⸀䔀䐀唀 ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 倀愀最愀渀 䰀椀琀栀甀愀渀椀愀渀猀ഊDate: 13 Mar 1995 16:46:03 -0500 ਀ഊGreetings! ਀ഊThe pagan discussion picqued my curiosity -- We're doing a course on Russian ਀䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 愀渀搀 䌀甀氀琀甀爀攀 琀栀椀猀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 爀甀渀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 ഊreferences to the conversion of the Lithuanians to Christianity. Of course, ਀吀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 愀搀漀瀀琀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀椀琀礀 漀昀昀椀挀椀愀氀氀礀 甀渀琀椀氀 㤀㠀㠀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊone could make an argument that it took quite a long time to filter down to ਀琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀甀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀渀椀攀猀 ⠀愀猀 漀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 䬀椀攀瘀 愀渀搀 洀漀樀漀爀 挀椀琀椀攀猀㬀 ഊsee Andrei Tarkovsky's _Andrei Rublev_, which has some interesting allusions ਀琀漀 瀀愀最愀渀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀猀 椀昀 礀漀甀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀愀琀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 昀漀爀⸀ 䴀礀 氀愀搀礀 搀漀攀猀⸀⤀ ഊ ਀䴀漀爀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀 ⴀⴀ 吀栀攀 琀攀砀琀戀漀漀欀 眀攀✀爀攀 甀猀椀渀最 昀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 ⠀䴀愀挀䬀攀渀稀椀攀 愀渀搀 ഊCurran, _A History of Russia, the Soviet Union and Beyond_) suggests that ਀䰀椀琀栀甀愀渀椀愀✀猀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 愀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀 猀琀爀攀琀挀栀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 琀漀 洀椀搀ⴀ㄀㌀琀栀 ഊcentury to the early 15th. The Teutonic Knights, of course, were on a ਀洀椀猀猀椀漀渀 琀漀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀 䈀愀氀琀椀挀 倀愀最愀渀猀 戀礀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㌀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀㬀 䬀椀渀最 䴀椀渀搀愀甀最愀猀 ഊand his family converted, and Mindaugas received "a crown from the pope in ਀刀漀洀攀∀ 椀渀 ㄀㈀㔀㌀ ⠀瀀⸀ ㄀　㐀⤀⸀  䰀椀琀栀甀愀渀椀愀渀 甀渀椀昀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀爀搀 ഊquarter of the 13th c., under Traidenis;curiously, this period saw a pagan ਀∀爀攀瘀椀瘀愀氀∀ 眀栀椀挀栀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀琀氀礀 愀渀琀愀最漀渀椀稀攀搀 洀愀琀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 伀爀琀栀漀搀漀砀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀 ഊ(Slavs) under Lithuanian control. To make a long story short, Lithuania drew ਀挀氀漀猀攀爀 琀漀 倀漀氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 愀猀 愀 爀攀猀甀氀琀 漀昀 挀漀渀琀椀渀甀椀渀最 瀀爀攀猀猀甀爀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 吀攀甀琀漀渀椀挀 ഊKnights by the late 14th century. Many lithuanuian nobles remained pagan, ਀戀甀琀 戀攀最愀渀 琀漀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 愀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 ㄀㌀㠀㔀 唀渀椀漀渀 漀昀 䬀爀攀眀漀 ⠀眀椀琀栀 倀漀氀愀渀搀⤀㨀 ഊconverts to Catholicism "obtained all the privileges of the Polish nobility." ਀⠀瀀⸀ ㄀　㔀⤀⸀  伀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 氀椀昀攀 漀昀 洀攀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 昀椀渀搀 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 琀愀欀攀渀 ഊto be the exact date of conversion, but you get the picture. ਀ഊHope this helps -- there is a good, sound basis to be a pagan noble of the ਀䰀椀琀栀甀愀渀椀愀渀ⴀ刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㐀琀栀 挀⸀ഊ ਀䤀戀愀渀 搀攀 匀攀瀀甀氀瘀攀搀愀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Newbie wanting literature on period Russia... ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㘀 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 　㐀㨀㄀㤀㨀　　 䜀䴀吀ഊ ਀䌀漀爀渀攀氀氀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 倀爀攀猀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀氀礀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 愀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊDomostroi. It is a Russian household manual--how to run a household, with ਀氀漀琀猀 漀昀 猀琀甀昀昀 漀渀 昀漀漀搀Ⰰ 眀攀搀搀椀渀最 挀攀爀攀洀漀渀椀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ 吀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 琀攀砀琀 椀猀ഊapparently 16th century, with some later additions. ਀ഊDavid/Cariadoc ਀ⴀⴀ ഊddfr at best.com ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 洀栀漀氀氀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䴀䠀漀氀氀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 一攀眀戀椀攀 眀愀渀琀椀渀最 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 漀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 刀甀猀猀椀愀⸀⸀⸀ഊDate: 26 Sep 1995 12:23:08 -0400 ਀ഊGreetings! ਀匀愀猀栀欀愀 ⠀䰀椀氀氀椀琀栀 䬀礀氀愀渀 䰀攀爀椀攀渀⤀ 圀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ ਀ 㸀夀攀愀栀Ⰰ 䤀✀洀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 洀甀挀栀 愀 渀攀眀戀椀攀⸀⸀⸀ 䤀✀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 欀椀渀搀愀 戀氀甀昀昀椀渀最 洀礀 眀愀礀 ഊ>through my first few events, but I'm interested in creating a persona ਀㸀琀栀愀琀 椀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀⸀⸀ 猀漀 䤀✀洀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 ⠀瀀爀攀昀攀爀愀戀氀礀ഊ ਀㸀渀漀琀 栀甀最攀 琀漀洀攀猀⸀⸀⸀ 䤀✀洀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀最攀 猀琀甀搀攀渀琀Ⰰ 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 戀甀猀礀⤀ 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 ഊ>information on Russian (well, more specifically, southwestern russia, ਀㸀渀攀愀爀椀猀栀 琀漀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 䜀攀漀爀最椀愀Ⰰ 洀漀甀渀琀愀椀渀猀Ⰰ 渀攀愀爀椀猀栀 琀栀攀 猀攀愀⤀ 最愀爀戀Ⰰ 渀愀洀攀猀Ⰰ ഊ>customs, etc, the usual stuff... I am also interested in explanations of ਀㸀洀愀爀爀椀愀最攀 戀礀 瀀爀漀砀礀⸀⸀⸀ ഊ ਀ 吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 漀渀攀ⴀ瘀漀氀甀洀攀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 眀椀氀氀 最椀瘀攀 礀漀甀 愀渀 漀甀琀氀椀渀攀 漀昀ഊRussian history. It's called something like _History of Russia_ (Duh! :) ) ਀愀渀搀 椀琀 椀猀 戀礀 倀愀甀氀 䐀甀欀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 最漀 漀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 洀甀氀琀椀ⴀ瘀漀氀甀洀攀 眀漀爀欀 戀礀ഊGeorge Vernadsky (about the same title). Each of Vernadsky's volumes can ਀戀攀 爀攀愀搀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀氀礀Ⰰ 猀漀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 挀漀渀挀攀渀琀爀愀琀攀 漀渀 礀漀甀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 甀渀琀椀氀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀ഊmore leisure to study all of it. ਀   䄀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 最愀爀戀 椀猀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀Ⰰ 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀 愀眀愀爀攀 漀昀 愀渀礀 眀漀爀欀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⸀ 夀漀甀ഊmay want to move to Novgorod, biased advice here, although there really is ਀愀 洀漀爀攀 漀渀 琀栀愀琀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀 挀椀琀礀 琀栀愀渀 漀渀 洀漀猀琀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 漀昀ഊextensive archeological digs done there. ਀   ഊPredslava Vydrina ਀䈀樀漀爀渀猀戀漀爀最Ⰰ 䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: blktauna at netaxs.com (Donna Bowers) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Newbie wanting literature on period Russia... ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㌀　 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㔀 ㈀　㨀㔀㌀㨀㐀㈀ 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider ਀ഊSashka; ਀ഊTry some of these: ਀圀⸀䔀⸀䐀⸀ 䄀氀氀攀渀   䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䜀攀漀爀最椀愀渀 倀攀漀瀀氀攀ഊD.M. Lang The Georgians ਀䌀漀氀椀渀 吀栀甀戀爀漀渀  䄀洀漀渀最 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀ഊShota Rustaveli The Knight in the Panther's skin ਀ഊThat should get you on track.. ਀吀愀甀渀愀ഊ-- ਀戀氀欀琀愀甀渀愀 愀琀 渀攀琀愀砀猀⸀挀漀洀ഊhttp://www.netaxs.com/~blktauna ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 刀漀戀攀爀琀 䰀椀最栀琀昀漀漀琀 㰀挀攀氀琀挀愀琀 愀琀 最渀愀琀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䰀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 最愀爀戀 昀爀漀洀 ㄀㌀琀栀 ㄀㐀琀栀 挀攀渀琀 刀甀猀ഊDate: 17 Oct 1996 01:43:57 GMT ਀ഊNatal'ia asks: ਀ഊ>I am looking for sorces for 13th and 14th century Rus (Russian) garb. ਀㸀䤀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 愀爀攀 渀漀眀 漀甀琀 漀昀 ഊ>print. Please help a new member. Thanks ਀ഊMy husband and I have some suggestions for you. ਀嘀椀搀攀漀猀㨀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 一攀瘀猀欀礀 愀渀搀 䤀瘀愀渀 琀栀攀 吀攀爀爀椀戀氀攀 瀀愀爀琀 ㄀ ☀ ㈀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䄀渀搀爀攀椀 ഊRubliev. Some may be a little later in period but the fashions won't have ਀挀栀愀渀最攀搀 洀甀挀栀⸀ഊBooks: Mary Gostlow, Embroidery of all Russia, Charles Scribner's SOns, ਀一夀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㜀㜀⸀䤀匀䈀一 　ⴀ㘀㠀㐀ⴀ㄀㔀㄀㠀㐀㜀ഊWalter A. Fairservis, Jr. Costumes of the East.The Chatham Press, 1971 ਀䤀匀䈀一㨀㠀㔀㘀㤀㤀ⴀ　㈀㤀ⴀ　 ⠀栀愀爀搀⤀⼀⼀ 㠀㔀㘀㤀㤀ⴀ　㈀㤀ⴀ㤀 ⠀瀀愀瀀攀爀⤀ഊThe Scared Art of Russia from Ivan the Terrible to Peter the Great. ਀倀漀爀最爀愀漀洀 戀漀漀欀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䜀攀漀爀最椀愀 挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀 攀砀挀栀愀渀最攀 ⠀搀椀猀瀀氀愀礀 栀攀氀搀 椀渀 䄀吀氀愀渀琀愀 ഊlast year) ISBN:09646394-0-8 (paper)//09646394-1-6(hard). ਀ഊGood luck ਀䰀愀搀礀 匀椀漀戀栀愀渀 渀椀 䄀栀攀愀爀渀 ☀ 䰀搀⸀ 䔀爀渀猀琀ഊ> Natalie Jean Boyer ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 樀猀眀愀渀最攀爀 愀琀 甀⸀眀愀猀栀椀渀最琀漀渀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀✀䨀栀攀爀攀欀✀ 圀⸀ 匀眀愀渀最攀爀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 匀琀甀昀昀℀℀ഊDate: 19 Oct 1996 00:00:12 GMT ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 圀愀猀栀椀渀最琀漀渀Ⰰ 匀攀愀琀琀氀攀ഊ ਀㸀䜀爀攀攀琀椀渀最猀 琀漀 愀氀氀 昀爀漀洀 䄀爀洀愀渀搀漀 刀愀昀愀攀氀 䐀✀䔀甀稀欀愀搀椀Ⰰഊ ਀㸀䤀✀洀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 昀漀爀 栀椀洀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 椀渀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 琀漀 愀爀洀漀爀ഊ>(12th-15th cent). Actually, all kinds of resources will be helpful; ਀㸀愀爀洀漀爀Ⰰ 最愀爀戀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀甀猀琀漀洀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀椀猀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 愀昀琀攀爀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 栀攀✀猀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 戀甀琀⸀⸀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 䐀漀洀漀猀琀爀漀椀 㨀 爀甀氀攀猀 昀漀爀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 栀漀甀猀攀栀漀氀搀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 漀昀 ഊIvan the Terrible / edited and translated by Carolyn Johnston ਀倀漀甀渀挀礀⸀ ⴀⴀ  䤀琀栀愀挀愀Ⰰ 一夀 㨀 䌀漀爀渀攀氀氀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 倀爀攀猀猀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㤀㐀⸀ഊ ਀䄀氀猀漀 挀栀攀挀欀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 栀攀愀搀椀渀最猀 愀琀 礀漀甀爀 氀漀挀愀氀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀㨀ഊ ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀ⴀⴀ匀漀挀椀愀氀 氀椀昀攀 愀渀搀 挀甀猀琀漀洀猀ഊRussia--History ਀ഊkirsti ਀⠀渀漀琀 樀栀攀爀攀欀⤀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: donata at ix.netcom.com(Dawn D Malmstrom) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Looking for garb from 13th 14th cent Rus ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㜀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 　㔀㨀㈀㜀㨀㈀㄀ 䜀䴀吀ഊ ਀䤀渀 㰀㔀㐀㐀㌀　琀␀㄀㄀戀 愀琀 戀椀氀氀⸀最渀愀琀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀 刀漀戀攀爀琀 䰀椀最栀琀昀漀漀琀 㰀挀攀氀琀挀愀琀 愀琀 最渀愀琀渀攀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊwrites: ਀ഊ>My husband and I have some suggestions for you. ਀㸀嘀椀搀攀漀猀㨀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 一攀瘀猀欀礀 愀渀搀 䤀瘀愀渀 琀栀攀 吀攀爀爀椀戀氀攀 瀀愀爀琀 ㄀ ☀ ㈀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䄀渀搀爀攀椀 ഊ>Rubliev. Some may be a little later in period but the fashions won't ਀㸀栀愀瘀攀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 洀甀挀栀⸀ഊ ਀倀氀攀愀猀攀Ⰰ 漀栀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 开搀漀渀✀琀开 甀猀攀 愀 洀漀瘀椀攀 愀猀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀℀  䘀漀爀 漀渀攀 琀栀椀渀最ⰀഊIvan was not Czar until 1547 and the movie is 20th century. There is a ਀眀攀戀 瀀愀最攀 昀漀爀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 䤀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀猀 愀琀 ഊ ਀    栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀瘀洀猀⸀眀眀眀⸀甀眀瀀氀愀琀琀⸀攀搀甀⼀縀最漀氀搀猀挀栀洀椀搀琀⼀猀氀愀瘀椀挀⸀栀琀洀氀 ഊ ਀愀渀搀 䤀 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 愀 䰀愀甀爀攀氀 眀栀漀 椀猀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀渀最 愀 唀欀爀愀渀椀愀渀ഊcostuming book of which I have a partial copy, but she does not have ਀攀洀愀椀氀⸀  䤀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 攀洀愀椀氀 洀攀 愀渀搀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 猀攀渀搀 椀琀 漀渀 琀漀ഊher. ਀ഊIn Service, ਀䐀漀渀愀琀愀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: lobel at is.nyu.edu (Sheldon Lobel) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Looking for garb from 13th 14th cent Rus ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㄀㜀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 ㄀㜀㨀　㐀㨀㈀㄀ 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: New York University ਀ഊDawn D Malmstrom (donata at ix.netcom.com) wrote: ਀ഊ: Please, oh please _don't_ use a movie as documentation! For one thing, ਀㨀 䤀瘀愀渀 眀愀猀 渀漀琀 䌀稀愀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 ㄀㔀㐀㜀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 洀漀瘀椀攀 椀猀 ㈀　琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀ഊ ਀䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 愀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 洀漀瘀椀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 琀攀渀搀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 洀甀挀栀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 琀栀愀渀ഊan American one (for all that's worth). ਀ഊIf you look at the credits, they often have 3 or 4 PhD's listed as ਀∀栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 挀漀渀猀甀氀琀愀渀琀猀∀ 愀渀搀 洀愀礀戀攀 漀渀攀 渀愀洀攀 愀猀 ∀挀漀猀琀甀洀椀渀最 搀攀猀椀最渀攀爀∀⸀ഊ ਀一愀甀洀 䬀栀愀稀愀爀椀渀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: BHoll ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Russian Stuff!! ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 ㈀㌀㨀　㌀㨀㐀㠀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: Trinity University ਀ഊShire2308 wrote: ਀㸀 ഊ> Greetings to all from Armando Rafael D'Euzkadi, ਀㸀 ഊ> I have brought into our shire a newbie (a good friend who has finally ਀㸀 搀攀挀椀搀攀搀 琀漀 最椀瘀攀 椀琀 愀 猀栀漀琀⤀ 眀栀漀 椀猀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀⸀  䤀 洀攀愀渀⸀⸀⸀⸀栀攀✀猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 昀爀漀洀ഊ> RUSSIA, not just his persona. ਀㸀 ഊ> I'm trying to find information for him, especially in regards to armor ਀㸀 ⠀㄀㈀琀栀ⴀ㄀㔀琀栀 挀攀渀琀⤀⸀  䄀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 愀氀氀 欀椀渀搀猀 漀昀 爀攀猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 眀椀氀氀 戀攀 栀攀氀瀀昀甀氀㬀ഊ> armor, garb, period customs, etc. ਀㸀 ഊ> At his request, send any email to him, Egor, at egorp at aol.com. ਀㸀 ഊ> Armando Rafael D'Euzkadi ਀㸀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䔀愀猀琀ഊ> Royal Forest of Rusted Woodlands ਀ഊTo this person and any other: ਀ഊMake your way to the Slavic Interest Group Web Page at: ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀瘀洀猀⸀眀眀眀⸀甀眀瀀氀愀琀琀⸀攀搀甀⼀縀最漀氀搀猀挀栀洀椀搀琀⼀猀氀愀瘀椀挀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ ਀䰀漀琀猀 漀昀 猀琀甀昀昀 琀栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 愀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 渀椀挀攀 戀椀戀氀椀漀最爀愀瀀栀礀⸀ഊ ਀倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀 嘀礀搀爀椀渀愀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: BHoll ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Looking for garb from 13th 14th cent Rus ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 ㈀㈀㨀㔀㤀㨀㌀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: Trinity University ਀ഊRobert Lightfoot wrote: ਀㸀 ഊ> My husband and I have some suggestions for you. ਀ഊI apologize as I will criticise most of what you suggest. In my ਀搀攀昀攀渀猀攀㨀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 猀琀甀搀礀椀渀最 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 挀漀猀琀甀洀攀 昀漀爀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 礀攀愀爀猀 渀漀眀Ⰰ 䤀 ഊam mundanely a doctoral candidate in Russian studies, and I read ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 嘀椀搀攀漀猀㨀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀 一攀瘀猀欀礀 愀渀搀 䤀瘀愀渀 琀栀攀 吀攀爀爀椀戀氀攀 瀀愀爀琀 ㄀ ☀ ㈀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䄀渀搀爀攀椀ഊ> Rubliev. Some may be a little later in period but the fashions won't have ਀㸀 挀栀愀渀最攀搀 洀甀挀栀⸀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 猀攀攀渀 ∀䄀氀攀欀猀愀渀搀爀 一攀瘀猀欀椀椀∀ 椀渀 焀甀椀琀攀 愀 眀栀椀氀攀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 眀漀渀✀琀 猀愀礀 ഊanything. "Ivan the Terrible" is only "just about," and "Andrei ਀刀甀戀氀攀瘀∀ 匀䠀伀唀䰀䐀 渀漀琀 戀攀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀攀搀 愀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 洀漀瘀椀攀 䄀吀 䄀䰀䰀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 戀礀 ഊits own director's words! Very little in it is actually historical, ਀昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 挀栀愀爀愀挀琀攀爀猀✀ 戀攀栀愀瘀椀漀爀 琀漀 琀栀攀 挀氀漀琀栀攀猀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀愀爀⸀ 䄀 氀漀琀 漀昀 椀琀 椀猀 ഊ"generic poor oppressed peasant". ਀ഊ> Books: Mary Gostlow, Embroidery of all Russia, Charles Scribner's SOns, ਀㸀 一夀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㜀㜀⸀䤀匀䈀一 　ⴀ㘀㠀㐀ⴀ㄀㔀㄀㠀㐀㜀ഊ> Walter A. Fairservis, Jr. Costumes of the East.The Chatham Press, 1971 ਀㸀 䤀匀䈀一㨀㠀㔀㘀㤀㤀ⴀ　㈀㤀ⴀ　 ⠀栀愀爀搀⤀⼀⼀ 㠀㔀㘀㤀㤀ⴀ　㈀㤀ⴀ㤀 ⠀瀀愀瀀攀爀⤀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 渀漀琀栀椀渀最 椀渀 琀栀椀猀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 䐀漀 渀漀琀 甀猀攀 椀琀 ഊwithout a background study of Russian costume. ਀ഊ> The Scared Art of Russia from Ivan the Terrible to Peter the Great. ਀㸀 倀漀爀最爀愀漀洀 戀漀漀欀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䜀攀漀爀最椀愀 挀甀氀琀甀爀愀氀 攀砀挀栀愀渀最攀 ⠀搀椀猀瀀氀愀礀 栀攀氀搀 椀渀 䄀吀氀愀渀琀愀ഊ> last year) ISBN:09646394-0-8 (paper)//09646394-1-6(hard). ਀ഊSacred art can be a good source if you know what you are looking for. ਀䄀 氀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀氀漀琀栀椀渀最 椀猀 猀琀礀氀椀稀攀搀 愀渀搀 昀漀氀氀漀眀猀 琀栀攀 爀椀琀甀愀氀 搀攀洀愀渀搀猀 漀昀 ഊicon painting, but some icons depict ordinary people in actual period ਀挀氀漀琀栀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䈀甀琀 搀漀 琀甀爀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 䤀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 䜀爀漀甀瀀 眀攀戀 瀀愀最攀 愀琀 ഊhttp://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschmidt/slavic.html ਀ഊThere is an annotated bibliography there aimed at people who do not ਀爀攀愀搀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀⸀ഊ ਀䘀攀攀氀 昀爀攀攀 琀漀 攀ⴀ洀愀椀氀 洀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 氀椀欀攀 猀漀洀攀 洀漀爀攀 栀攀氀瀀⸀ഊ ਀倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀 嘀礀搀爀椀渀愀ഊ(a lurking Russian persona who just had to emerge) ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀䠀漀氀氀 㰀戀栀漀氀氀 愀琀 挀猀⸀琀爀椀渀椀琀礀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 匀琀甀昀昀℀℀ഊDate: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:58:01 -0500 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀爀椀渀椀琀礀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊ ਀✀䨀栀攀爀攀欀✀ 圀⸀ 匀眀愀渀最攀爀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> This may be a bit after the period he's interested in but... ਀㸀 ഊ> The Domostroi : rules for Russian households in the time of ਀㸀 䤀瘀愀渀 琀栀攀 吀攀爀爀椀戀氀攀 ⼀ 攀搀椀琀攀搀 愀渀搀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀搀 戀礀 䌀愀爀漀氀礀渀 䨀漀栀渀猀琀漀渀ഊ> Pouncy. -- Ithaca, NY : Cornell University Press, 1994. ਀㸀 ഊ> kirsti ਀㸀 ⠀渀漀琀 樀栀攀爀攀欀⤀ഊ ਀夀攀猀℀ 倀漀甀渀挀礀✀猀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䐀漀洀漀猀琀爀漀椀 椀猀 攀砀挀攀氀氀攀渀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀攀 琀栀愀琀 ഊit is a late-period book about late-period manners and traditions. ਀ഊPredslava Vydrina ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀䠀漀氀氀 㰀戀栀漀氀氀 愀琀 挀猀⸀琀爀椀渀椀琀礀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀㼀ഊDate: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:25:17 -0500 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀爀椀渀椀琀礀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊ ਀䐀椀挀欀 䔀渀攀礀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Zofia Beloshchenko wrote: ਀㸀 㸀 ⸀⸀⸀ 䄀爀瘀愀氀 栀愀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 瀀漀椀渀琀 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀  夀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 眀愀渀琀ഊ> > to consider Russian naming standards. I have found that towns and cities ਀㸀 㸀 栀愀搀 愀 洀漀爀攀 洀攀愀渀椀渀最昀甀氀 渀愀洀攀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 匀漀洀攀眀栀攀爀攀 䤀 昀漀爀最攀琀Ⰰ 䤀 爀攀愀搀 琀栀愀琀 焀甀椀琀攀 愀 昀攀眀 猀洀愀氀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 瘀椀氀氀愀最攀猀 眀攀爀攀ഊ> named things like "Naked" or (sort of) "Disgusting Mess" because they were ਀㸀 渀愀洀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 氀漀挀愀氀 渀漀戀氀攀 眀栀漀 漀眀渀攀搀 琀栀攀 氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 眀栀漀 最愀瘀攀 琀栀攀洀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 琀栀攀礀ഊ> thought fit the conditions without regard to the opinions of the peasants. ਀㸀 吀栀椀猀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀 漀昀 搀攀攀瀀 瀀漀瘀攀爀琀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㤀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀ഊ> may have been period practice too. If so, then "Middle of Nowhere" seems ਀㸀 洀椀氀搀 戀礀 挀漀洀瀀愀爀椀猀漀渀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 吀愀洀愀爀 琀栀攀 䜀礀瀀猀礀 ⠀猀栀愀爀椀渀最 愀挀挀漀甀渀琀 搀椀挀欀攀渀攀礀 愀琀 愀挀挀攀猀猀⸀搀椀最攀砀⸀渀攀琀⤀ഊ ਀匀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 琀栀愀琀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀攀搀⸀ 䈀甀琀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀 愀爀攀 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 渀愀洀攀搀 戀礀 ഊthose who found them/live there. ਀倀愀甀氀 圀椀挀欀攀渀搀攀搀 漀昀 吀栀愀渀攀琀Ⰰ 椀渀 栀椀猀 开䐀椀挀琀椀漀渀愀爀礀 漀昀 倀攀爀椀漀搀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 一愀洀攀猀开 ഊhas a section on place names. A nice appendix, worth looking at. ਀ഊPredslava Vydrina ਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 䈀樀漀爀渀猀戀漀爀最ഊKingdom of Ansteorra ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀䠀漀氀氀 㰀戀栀漀氀氀 愀琀 挀猀⸀琀爀椀渀椀琀礀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀漀洀攀 愀猀猀椀猀琀愀渀挀攀㼀ഊDate: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 22:19:11 -0500 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀爀椀渀椀琀礀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊ ਀嘀愀氀攀爀椀攀 刀漀猀攀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> ਀㸀 䠀攀氀氀漀 愀氀氀Ⰰഊ> I need some assistance with some research, and I thought it would be a ਀㸀 最漀漀搀 椀搀攀愀 琀漀 愀猀欀 栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀椀猀 渀攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 匀䌀䄀ഊ> members on it. ਀㸀    ⠀猀渀椀瀀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊ> Then I had an idea......what about other areas of Europe? I asked him ਀㸀 愀戀漀甀琀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀Ⰰ 刀漀洀愀渀椀愀渀Ⰰ 䠀甀渀最愀爀椀愀渀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 洀甀猀琀 栀愀瘀攀 甀猀攀搀 吀ⴀ琀甀渀椀挀猀ഊ> types clothes at some time or another, right? Plus, I get cold a lot, and ਀㸀 搀爀攀猀猀椀渀最 椀渀 漀甀琀昀椀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 挀漀甀渀琀爀椀攀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 愀氀氀漀眀 洀攀 琀漀 戀甀渀搀氀攀ഊ> up and still be in persona!:) And hubby dear said he'd at least look at ਀㸀 琀栀攀 猀琀甀昀昀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀椀昀 䤀 搀椀搀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀猀攀愀爀挀栀Ⰰ 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀⸀ഊ> However, my local library has book that say two or three sentances ਀㸀 愀戀漀甀琀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀⸀⸀⸀⸀愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 最漀攀猀 猀琀爀愀椀最栀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 吀猀愀爀猀℀ 䄀渀搀 刀漀洀愀渀椀愀 漀爀ഊ> Hungary? Almost nothing on names, so far....though I'm still looking. ਀㸀 一漀琀栀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀搀氀攀 愀最攀猀 椀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 挀漀甀渀琀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 漀渀 挀氀漀琀栀攀猀⸀ 䄀氀洀漀猀琀ഊ> nothing at all. ਀㸀   ⠀猀渀椀瀀 愀最愀椀渀⤀ഊ> ਀㸀 䄀椀戀最爀攀渀攀 刀漀猀攀ഊ> (AKA VAlerie Rose) ਀ഊLook at the bibliography at the Slavic Interest Group web site: ਀ഊhttp://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschmidt/slavic.html ਀ഊThere are references to books on Eastern European Middle Ages. It's largely ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 猀琀甀昀昀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 攀砀挀氀甀猀椀瘀攀氀礀⸀ 䄀渀搀 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 洀礀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀Ⰰ 瀀爀攀ⴀ堀䤀䤀䤀 ഊcentury Russian costume was pretty much T-tunic-like with more tunics and ਀挀氀漀愀欀猀 昀漀爀 挀漀氀搀 眀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀ 䘀甀爀 氀椀渀攀搀Ⰰ 琀漀漀⸀ 䨀甀猀琀 愀搀搀 愀渀 愀瀀瀀爀漀瀀爀椀愀琀攀 栀愀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊthat's it. ਀ഊPredslava Vydrina ਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 䈀樀漀爀渀猀戀漀爀最ഊKingdom of Ansteorra ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䈀䠀漀氀氀 㰀戀栀漀氀氀 愀琀 挀猀⸀琀爀椀渀椀琀礀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀漀洀攀 愀猀猀椀猀琀愀渀挀攀㼀ഊDate: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:23:48 -0500 ਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 吀爀椀渀椀琀礀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊ ਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 洀椀猀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 瀀漀猀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀昀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 愀渀搀 ഊCentral/Eastern Europe, then go to the Slavic Interest Group web page: ਀ഊhttp://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschmidt/slavic.html ਀ഊThere is a great bibliography there and other good stuff. ਀ഊIf you cannot get to that web page, then write to me at ਀ഊMHoll at aol.com ਀ഊand I'll be happy to help. ਀ഊThe most current and accurate name-book of Russian names can be found at ਀琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 眀攀戀 猀椀琀攀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀猀挀愀⸀漀爀最⼀ഊ ਀椀渀 琀栀攀 䠀攀爀愀氀搀爀礀 猀攀挀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀䄀最愀椀渀Ⰰ 椀昀 礀漀甀 渀攀攀搀 洀漀爀攀 栀攀氀瀀Ⰰ 昀攀攀氀 昀爀攀攀 琀漀 眀爀椀琀攀 琀漀 洀攀 ⠀搀漀 渀漀琀 攀ⴀ洀愀椀氀 ഊvia this post). ਀ഊPredslava Vydrina ਀䈀樀漀爀渀猀戀漀爀最Ⰰ 䄀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀ഊ ਀ഊFrom: nayat at panix.com (nayat) ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Tatar Yoke/Medieval Russia/Novgorod ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 ㈀㐀 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㄀㔀㨀㐀㌀㨀㌀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊOrganization: Panix ਀ഊCorun MacAnndra wrote: ਀㸀ഊ>Hmmm, I don't really know much about a Mongol merchant class. I'm sure the ਀㸀䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 琀爀愀搀攀搀 戀愀挀欀 愀渀搀 昀漀爀琀栀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 眀栀攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 愀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 挀氀愀猀猀 琀栀愀琀ഊ>ran caravans or lived in places far removed from their tribes or the places ਀㸀琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 猀甀戀樀甀最愀琀攀搀 椀猀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 愀渀猀眀攀爀⸀ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 琀栀椀渀欀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰഊ>that if Novogrod had not been subjugated by the Mongols, it would have become ਀㸀愀 栀愀瘀攀渀 昀漀爀 琀栀漀猀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀 攀猀挀愀瀀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀昀漀爀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 最甀攀猀猀ഊ>that Mongols in general would have been very unwelcome to the point that any ਀㸀洀椀最栀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 樀愀椀氀攀搀 漀爀 攀瘀攀渀 欀椀氀氀攀搀 漀甀琀 漀昀 栀愀渀搀⸀ 吀栀攀 刀甀猀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 氀椀欀攀搀ഊ>conquerors, and the Mongols were pretty ruthless. ਀㸀ഊ>In service, ਀㸀䌀漀爀甀渀ഊ ਀吀漀 猀愀礀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 氀椀欀攀 戀攀椀渀最 挀漀渀焀甀漀爀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 椀猀 愀渀ഊunderstatement. They went so far as to deny it in their chronicles, while ਀猀琀椀氀氀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 琀栀攀椀爀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⸀  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀漀椀渀琀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊtopic to Charles J. Halperin's book _Russia and the Golden Horde: The ਀䴀漀渀最漀氀 䤀洀瀀愀挀琀 漀渀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀开 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 戀礀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀愀 倀爀攀猀猀⸀ഊ ਀䄀猀 琀漀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 䴀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀猀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀漀椀渀琀 漀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 䌀栀椀渀最最椀猀 欀栀愀渀ഊturned west was to punish the Shah of Khurasan for killing Mongol ਀䴀攀爀挀栀愀渀琀猀⸀  伀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 栀攀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 猀瀀礀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀 䬀栀愀渀 琀愀甀最栀琀ഊhim. ਀ഊUmbar in Hashiral Daudachi, Beis ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㘀 䄀甀最 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㈀㄀㨀㌀㄀㨀㔀㄀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: Mary Amanda Fairchild ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re: Russian question ਀ഊfiondel at i1.net wrote: ਀㸀 䜀攀渀琀氀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀猀 氀椀猀琀Ⰰ 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀Ⰰഊ> ਀㸀 䤀 愀洀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 昀漀爀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 最愀爀戀 ⠀攀洀戀爀漀椀搀攀爀攀搀Ⰰഊ> if possible) from approximately 1350. Ukrain area. This would be for ਀㸀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 渀漀戀椀氀椀琀礀⼀栀攀琀洀愀渀 琀礀瀀攀 最愀爀戀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 瀀攀愀猀愀渀琀爀礀⸀  吀栀攀 ∀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀∀ 椀渀ഊ> question has one of those "funny hats." I went to our local ਀㸀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀 琀漀搀愀礀 愀渀搀 搀爀攀眀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 愀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀 戀氀愀渀欀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䈀漀漀欀猀㼀  圀攀戀 匀椀琀攀猀㼀  䄀爀挀栀椀瘀攀 匀椀琀攀猀㼀  倀氀攀愀猀攀Ⰰ 䠀䔀䰀倀℀ഊ> ਀㸀 䘀椀漀渀搀攀氀 䄀氀氀ⴀ匀攀琀ⴀ唀瀀ⴀ愀渀搀ⴀ一漀琀栀椀渀最ⴀ吀漀ⴀ匀攀眀ഊ ਀䐀攀愀爀 䰀愀搀礀ⰀഊI took 2 classes at Pennsic about Russian garb-basic and ornamented-that ਀眀攀爀攀 栀攀氀瀀昀甀氀 愀渀搀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀瘀攀⸀  䤀✀氀氀 戀攀 愀猀 戀爀椀攀昀 愀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀㨀ഊ1. start with a white(ish) longsleeved (fitted cuff) slit down the ਀挀攀渀琀攀爀 ⠀昀漀爀 眀漀洀攀渀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 洀攀渀 椀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 猀椀搀攀 挀甀琀⤀愀戀漀甀琀 㘀 椀渀挀栀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 漀爀ഊwithout collar double trimmed with something there and single trimmed on ਀挀甀昀昀 愀渀搀 昀氀漀漀爀 栀攀洀 猀氀椀瀀 ⠀漀爀 猀栀椀爀琀 昀漀爀 洀攀渀⤀ഊ2. make a full skirt, preferably red, trim ਀㌀⸀ 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀爀 瘀攀猀琀 漀爀 漀瘀攀爀猀栀椀爀琀 椀猀 昀甀氀氀 漀爀 瀀氀攀愀琀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀愀挀欀Ⰰ 琀甀挀欀攀搀ഊor pleated at the waist. ਀㐀⸀ 栀愀琀猀 爀愀渀最攀 昀爀漀洀 樀攀眀攀氀攀搀 挀爀漀眀渀ⴀ氀椀欀攀 戀愀渀搀猀 琀漀 昀甀爀 栀愀琀猀 琀漀 猀挀愀爀瘀攀猀ഊ5. coats are fur lined and often have mongolian side-cut influence ਀㘀⸀ 戀漀漀琀猀 愀爀攀 爀攀搀 ⠀最漀漀搀 氀甀挀欀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最 琀栀漀猀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 猀琀甀爀搀礀ഊ7. and PEARLS PEARLS PEARLS everywhere and anywhere. ਀ഊThat's the basics but if you want or need more please contact me. Also, ਀琀栀攀 琀攀愀挀栀攀爀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 椀渀 愀 挀甀琀攀 ⠀愀渀搀 愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀⤀ 洀漀搀攀氀ⴀⴀⴀ刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䈀愀爀戀椀攀℀ഊ ਀栀愀瘀攀 昀甀渀℀ ഊMary Amanda ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䄀甀最 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 　㠀㨀㌀㄀㨀㐀㘀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Carol at Small Churl Books ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re: Russian question ਀ഊ>I am currently trying to find references for Russian garb (embroidered, ਀㸀椀昀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀⤀ 昀爀漀洀 愀瀀瀀爀漀砀椀洀愀琀攀氀礀 ㄀㌀㔀　⸀  唀欀爀愀椀渀 愀爀攀愀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 戀漀漀欀 猀攀琀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 琀栀攀 ∀䬀椀攀瘀 倀猀愀氀琀攀爀∀ 眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀猀 洀愀爀最椀渀愀氀椀愀 猀栀漀眀椀渀最ഊpeople and their clothes. You might try to see if interlibrary loan can lay ਀栀愀渀搀猀 漀渀 椀琀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀⸀  䤀琀 眀愀猀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 攀砀瀀攀渀猀椀瘀攀 戀漀砀攀搀 猀攀琀 ⠀␀㄀㈀㔀 漀渀ഊout-of-print discount!) and one of the few original sources I have ever seen. ਀ഊAnother out of print book is the "Costume Timeline". It had some Russian ਀攀砀愀洀瀀氀攀猀 愀琀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 琀椀洀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀猀⸀  䄀甀琀栀漀爀㨀 䴀甀氀氀攀爀㬀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀爀㨀 吀栀愀洀攀猀 ☀ 䠀甀搀猀漀渀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:48:17 -0400 (EDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 猀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 挀栀愀猀猀⸀甀琀漀爀漀渀琀漀⸀挀愀 ⠀匀甀猀愀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䌀氀愀爀欀⤀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀䈀攀猀琀 戀漀漀欀 䤀 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 椀猀 开䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 唀欀爀愀椀渀椀愀渀 䌀漀猀琀甀洀攀开 戀礀 夀甀爀椀ഊTkach. Very good text and large colour plates, and it does cover the ਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 礀漀甀 眀愀渀琀⸀ഊ ਀䌀栀攀攀爀猀ⴀⴀഊNicolaa de Bracton ਀猀挀氀愀爀欀 愀琀 挀栀愀猀猀⸀甀琀漀爀漀渀琀漀⸀挀愀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:24:46 -0400 (EDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀攀渀渀攀 䠀攀椀猀攀 㰀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀䴀漀爀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 愀渀搀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀Ⰰ 椀渀挀氀甀搀椀渀最 愀渀 攀砀琀攀渀猀椀瘀攀ഊbibliography and a list of contacts, can be found on the web page of the ਀匀氀愀瘀椀挀 䤀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 䜀爀漀甀瀀 ⠀愀渀 甀渀漀昀昀椀挀椀愀氀 匀䌀䄀 最爀漀甀瀀⤀㨀ഊ http://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschmidt/slavic.html ਀ഊThere is a review of a book on Russian garb making in one of the ਀渀攀眀猀氀攀琀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀琀㨀 ऀ栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀瘀洀猀⸀眀眀眀⸀甀眀瀀氀愀琀琀⸀攀搀甀⼀縀洀椀氀氀攀爀樀攀⼀渀攀眀猀　㐀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 漀渀 瀀攀愀爀氀椀渀最 椀渀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 椀猀猀甀攀㨀ഊ http://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~millerje/news05.html ਀ഊEtc. ਀ഊJennifer Heise ** Aunt Bunny ** Jadwiga Zajaczkowa ਀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 00:40:29 -0500 (CDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 昀椀漀渀搀攀氀 愀琀 椀㄀⸀渀攀琀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ ਀㸀䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 攀砀愀挀琀 眀攀戀 猀椀琀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀昀 礀漀甀 眀攀爀攀 琀漀ഊ>go to ਀㸀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瀀戀洀⸀挀漀洀⼀縀氀椀渀搀愀栀氀⼀愀爀琀猀开愀渀搀开猀挀椀攀渀挀攀猀⸀栀琀洀氀   礀漀甀 眀椀氀氀 昀椀渀搀 愀 氀椀渀欀ഊ>so some nice costuming sites and a couple on the Slavic races. ਀ഊThank you so much for this reference. It pointed me to *exactly* what I ਀渀攀攀搀攀搀⸀  䤀渀 挀愀猀攀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 攀氀猀攀 椀猀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ∀戀漀漀欀猀∀ 漀渀 琀栀椀猀ഊsite is actually a portfolio of photographs. Seems that in 1903 the ਀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䤀洀瀀攀爀椀愀氀 䘀愀洀椀氀礀 栀愀搀 愀 戀愀氀氀 愀琀 琀栀攀 圀椀渀琀攀爀 倀愀氀愀挀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀礀 愀渀搀ഊall their guests wore vintage clothing from the 14th to the 18th century. ਀䄀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 漀瘀攀爀 栀愀氀昀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 愀爀攀 漀昀 最愀爀戀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 伀伀倀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 ഊrest are ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPHS of 14-17th century clothing. Not reproductions ਀戀甀琀 琀栀攀 最攀渀甀椀渀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀猀⸀  䨀甀猀琀 琀漀漀 挀漀漀氀 昀漀爀 眀漀爀搀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 瀀漀爀琀昀漀氀椀漀 椀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䌀漀猀琀甀洀攀猀∀Ⰰ 戀礀 䠀⸀ 䌀⸀ 倀攀爀攀氀攀戀攀爀最⸀ഊNo ISBN number, sorry. Not even a publication date. ਀ഊThe one I'm looking at is 14th century. All pearls, embroidery/applique, ਀愀渀搀 昀甀爀猀⸀  䌀愀渀✀琀 眀愀椀琀 琀漀 最攀琀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀⸀ഊ ਀䘀椀漀渀搀攀氀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:30:32 -0400 (EDT) ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀攀渀渀攀 䠀攀椀猀攀 㰀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀甀猀猀椀愀渀 最愀爀戀ഊ ਀伀渀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀Ⰰ 爀洀栀漀眀攀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Not where I'm concerned. If you know more than I, or older historians, ਀㸀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀 琀爀漀甀戀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 椀琀⸀ 䤀 眀愀猀 樀甀猀琀 挀椀琀椀渀最 眀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀搀 爀攀愀搀⼀栀攀愀爀搀ഊ> for years, and trying to be helpful. I've tried to buy some stuff ਀㸀 漀渀 一漀瘀最漀爀愀搀 ⠀愀爀挀栀愀攀漀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最猀⤀ 戀甀琀 猀攀攀洀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 戀椀琀 氀愀琀攀⸀ഊ> Don't read russian, but have read the information about some of the ਀㸀 攀砀挀愀瘀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 洀愀最愀稀椀渀攀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀猀 洀漀猀琀氀礀⸀ഊ ਀䤀✀洀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 猀氀漀最最椀渀最 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 倀愀瘀攀氀 䴀⸀ 䐀漀氀甀欀栀愀渀漀瘀✀猀 开吀栀攀 䔀愀爀氀礀 匀氀愀瘀猀㨀ഊEastern Europe from the Initial Settlement to the Kievan Rus_ (yes, ਀倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀Ⰰ 䤀✀氀氀 戀攀 瀀漀猀琀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 椀琀  琀漀 琀栀攀 匀䤀䜀 氀椀猀琀 愀猀 猀漀漀渀 愀猀 䤀✀瘀攀ഊgotten past the glaciation stuff!). It is written by a geologist who was ਀瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀挀栀愀攀氀漀最礀 琀攀愀洀猀 琀栀愀琀 搀椀搀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 攀砀挀愀瘀愀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊthe book is primarily based on the archaelogical record. I'm still working ਀琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 最氀愀挀椀愀琀椀漀渀 瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 漀渀 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀 琀漀漀 洀甀挀栀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀ഊwhen Kat'ryna Neblaga Volchkova borrows it from me I'm sure she'll be able ਀琀漀 挀爀椀琀椀焀甀攀 椀琀℀ഊ ਀䨀愀搀眀椀最愀 娀愀樀愀挀稀欀漀眀愀 ⠀匀栀椀爀攀 漀昀 䔀椀猀攀渀琀愀氀㬀 䠀䔀刀䴀匀 䌀礀挀氀漀渀甀猀⤀Ⰰ 洀欀愀 䨀攀渀渀椀昀攀爀 䠀攀椀猀攀ഊjenne at tulgey.browser.net ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀㘀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㌀㨀㐀㈀㨀　㤀 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re: russian garb ਀ഊIn a message dated 10/23/98 3:17:38 AM, Magnus wrote: ਀㸀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 䤀✀瘀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 戀甀礀 猀漀洀攀 猀琀甀昀昀ഊ>on Novgorad (archaeological findings) but seemed to be a bit late. ਀㸀䐀漀渀✀琀 爀攀愀搀 爀甀猀猀椀愀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀愀瘀攀 爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ>excavations, magazine articles mostly. ਀ഊThat's my advantage -- I do read Russian. Some info on the subject is ਀愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀㨀 猀攀攀 䈀爀椀猀戀愀渀攀⸀⸀⸀ 䐀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 昀甀氀氀 挀椀琀愀琀椀漀渀 愀琀ഊhand... ਀䤀琀✀猀 愀 戀椀琀 搀甀氀氀 琀漀 爀攀愀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䈀爀椀猀戀愀渀攀 爀攀挀愀瀀猀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 漀渀ഊNovgorod, mostly as translations of Russian articles. Another source is H. ਀䈀椀爀渀戀愀甀洀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 椀猀 开一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀 琀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀开⸀ 䤀琀✀猀 渀漀琀 氀攀椀猀甀爀攀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最ഊmaterial, and some of the data is regurgitated without critical examination, ਀愀渀搀 䤀 昀椀渀搀 昀愀甀氀琀 眀椀琀栀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 眀栀愀琀 栀攀 猀愀礀猀 ⠀攀猀瀀攀挀椀愀氀氀礀 眀栀攀渀 栀攀 爀攀瀀攀愀琀猀 匀漀瘀椀攀琀ഊideology without comments), but it's useful nevertheless. Both books are in ਀琀栀攀 匀䤀䜀 戀椀戀氀椀漀最爀愀瀀栀礀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀⸀ഊ ਀倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:43:26 -0500 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 爀洀栀漀眀攀 㰀洀愀最渀甀猀洀 愀琀 渀挀猀甀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 愀琀 倀攀椀瀀甀猀ഊ ਀䴀䠀漀氀氀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> In a message dated 10/23/98 3:33:30 AM, Magnus wrote: ਀㸀ഊ> >And the battle on the ice is still thrilling. I believe it ਀㸀 㸀氀攀愀瘀攀猀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 䄀氀氀椀攀猀 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀⸀ഊ> ਀㸀 䔀爀⸀⸀⸀ 䔀猀琀攀攀洀攀搀 䠀漀爀搀攀 洀攀洀戀攀爀⸀⸀⸀ 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 愀氀氀椀攀猀 愀琀 琀栀攀 䤀挀攀ഊ> Massacre. The attacks of the Mongols were still too recent and bloody ਀㸀 琀漀 愀氀氀漀眀 昀漀爀 愀渀礀 愀氀氀椀愀渀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀  唀洀洀洀⸀ 一漀琀 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 䰀愀欀攀 倀攀椀瀀甀猀 ㄀㈀㐀㈀ 戀礀 䐀愀瘀椀搀 一椀挀栀漀氀攀 倀栀䐀⸀ഊHe refers to them as Turco-Mongol warriors of steppe origin. ਀䠀攀 猀琀愀琀攀猀㨀ഊ"The size of of the vital Turco-Mongol contingent of horse archers ਀椀猀 甀渀欀渀漀眀渀Ⰰ 愀猀 椀猀 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀爀攀挀椀猀攀 椀搀攀渀琀椀琀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀猀 甀渀氀椀欀攀氀礀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀ഊexceeded a few hundred." ਀  䠀攀 椀搀攀渀琀椀昀椀攀猀 琀栀攀猀攀 愀猀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 眀栀漀 椀渀栀愀戀椀琀攀搀 戀漀琀栀 猀椀搀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀漀爀琀栀攀爀渀ഊUral mountains. "Those of the west, also known as the Khantz, had ਀戀攀攀渀 椀渀挀漀爀瀀漀爀愀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 一漀瘀最漀爀愀搀✀猀 ✀昀甀爀 攀洀瀀椀爀攀✀⸀⸀⸀∀ഊHe also states that if they were _mongols_ they were likely brought ਀甀瀀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀琀栀 戀礀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀✀猀 戀爀漀琀栀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀䄀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀Ⰰ 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 一椀挀栀漀氀攀Ⰰ 焀甀椀琀攀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀ഊtribal peoples made up the army. He cites quite a few. Sounded ਀氀椀欀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 愀 洀攀氀琀椀渀最 瀀漀琀⸀ഊ ਀匀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 栀攀挀欀 漀甀琀 漀昀 洀攀 琀漀漀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 爀攀愀搀 椀琀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀ഊI am aware of the Mongol invasion of that area previously. ਀ഊ"David Nichole PhD was born in 1944 and was educated at Highgate ਀匀挀栀漀漀氀⸀ 䘀漀爀 攀椀最栀琀 礀攀愀爀猀 栀攀 眀漀爀欀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀䈀䌀 䄀爀愀戀椀挀 匀攀爀瘀椀挀攀⸀ 䤀渀ഊ1971 he went "back to school" gaining an MA from the School of ਀伀爀椀攀渀琀愀氀 匀琀甀搀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 愀 倀栀䐀 昀爀漀洀 䔀搀椀渀戀甀爀最栀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀⸀ 䘀漀爀 猀漀洀攀ഊyears he taught world and Islamic art and architectural history at ਀夀愀爀洀甀欀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀Ⰰ 䨀漀爀搀愀渀⸀ 䐀愀瘀椀搀 栀愀猀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 戀漀漀欀猀 昀漀爀ഊOsprey, including Campaign 43 Fornovo 1495." He cites about 40 ਀戀漀漀欀猀 椀渀 栀椀猀 戀椀戀氀椀漀最爀愀瀀栀礀⸀ഊ ਀䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀攀 挀栀爀漀渀漀氀漀最礀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 眀攀爀攀 昀椀最栀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀ഊhe was. In 1241 Mongols defeated the Poles and Germans at Leignitz. ਀䤀渀 ㄀㈀㐀㈀ 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀爀攀 琀漀漀欀 倀猀欀漀瘀 戀愀挀欀 愀渀搀 眀漀渀 愀琀 倀攀椀瀀甀猀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀⸀ഊin 1246 Alexandre submits to the Mongol Khan Batu. In 1252 he becomes ਀琀栀攀 嘀攀氀椀欀椀 䬀渀攀稀 ⠀䜀爀愀渀搀 倀爀椀渀挀攀⤀ 漀昀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 甀渀搀攀爀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 漀瘀攀爀氀漀爀搀猀栀椀瀀⸀ഊNot meaning to say he liked it - it just happened. In the middle of ਀琀栀椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 愀氀氀 猀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 瀀甀猀栀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀ഊon the outskirts of the main combatants, some of whom evidently ਀昀椀最甀爀攀搀 椀琀 眀愀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 戀攀猀琀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 琀漀 琀愀欀攀 猀椀搀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀⸀ഊ ਀䴀愀最渀甀猀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:04:53 EST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 㰀䴀䠀漀氀氀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀  䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 愀琀 倀攀椀瀀甀猀ഊ ਀䤀渀 愀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 搀愀琀攀搀 ㄀　⼀㈀㜀⼀㤀㠀 ㄀　㨀㐀㈀㨀㌀㜀 䄀䴀Ⰰ 䴀愀最渀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>In the middle of ਀㸀琀栀椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 愀氀氀 猀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 瀀甀猀栀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀ഊ>on the outskirts of the main combatants, some of whom evidently ਀㸀昀椀最甀爀攀搀 椀琀 眀愀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 戀攀猀琀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 琀漀 琀愀欀攀 猀椀搀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䤀✀洀 猀甀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 䤀✀洀 猀甀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀渀ⴀ刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀 椀渀 䄀氀攀砀愀渀搀攀爀✀猀ഊcontingent -- but I haven't read any references to non-Russian *units*. ਀䤀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀猀 ⴀⴀ 琀栀愀琀✀猀 愀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 猀琀漀爀礀⸀ 䘀漀爀 洀漀爀攀Ⰰ 猀攀攀 䨀漀栀渀 䘀攀渀渀攀氀氀Ⰰ 开吀栀攀ഊCrisis of Medieval Russia, 1200-1304_, Longman, London and New York, 1983. ਀伀爀ഊJanet Martin, _Medieval Russia, 980-1584_, Cambridge University Press, New ਀夀漀爀欀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㤀㔀⸀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:11:39 EST ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 㰀䴀䠀漀氀氀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊTo: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀 椀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀  ⠀眀愀猀㨀 刀攀㨀 爀甀猀猀椀愀渀 最愀爀戀⤀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 挀氀攀愀爀攀猀琀 猀琀愀琀攀洀攀渀琀Ⰰ 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 愀猀 琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 猀甀挀挀椀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 戀攀氀漀渀最猀ഊto Nicholas V. Riazanovsky, then professor of history at Columbia (if I am not ਀洀椀猀琀愀欀攀渀⤀Ⰰ 椀渀 开䄀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 刀甀猀猀椀愀开Ⰰ 猀攀挀漀渀搀 攀搀椀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 伀砀昀漀爀搀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 倀爀攀猀猀ⰀഊNew York, 1969, p. 26: ਀ഊ"Detailed investigations of Scandinavian elements in Russian culture serve to ਀攀洀瀀栀愀猀椀稀攀 琀栀攀椀爀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀 椀渀猀椀最渀椀昀椀挀愀渀挀攀⸀ 一漀爀洀愀渀 眀漀爀搀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀Ⰰഊformerly supposed to be numerous, number actually only six or seven. (...) ਀圀爀椀琀琀攀渀 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 椀渀 䬀椀攀瘀 瀀爀攀挀攀搀攀搀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 椀渀 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀⸀⸀⸀ഊ(...) ਀䌀氀愀椀洀猀 漀昀 一漀爀洀愀渀 挀漀渀琀爀椀戀甀琀椀漀渀猀 琀漀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 氀愀眀 栀愀瘀攀 猀甀昀昀攀爀攀搀 愀 昀椀愀猀挀漀㨀 眀栀椀氀攀 愀琀ഊone time scholars believed in the Scandinavian foundation of Russian ਀樀甀爀椀猀瀀爀甀搀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 栀愀猀 椀渀 昀愀挀琀 瀀爀漀瘀攀搀 椀洀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 琀爀愀挀攀 攀氀攀洀攀渀琀猀 漀昀 䬀椀攀瘀愀渀ഊlaw back to Norman prototypes. (...) Other assertions of Norman cultural ਀椀渀昀氀甀攀渀挀攀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀栀攀 漀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䬀椀攀瘀愀渀 挀漀甀爀琀 漀爀 漀渀ഊRussian dress, tend to be vague and inconclusive, especially when compared to ਀琀栀攀 洀愀猀猀椀瘀攀 椀洀瀀愀挀琀 漀昀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀甀洀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 琀愀渀最椀戀氀攀 攀昀昀攀挀琀猀 漀昀 猀漀洀攀 伀爀椀攀渀琀愀氀ഊcultures on Russia." ਀ഊRiazanovsky goes on to question other finding connecting the "Rus" with a ਀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 最爀漀甀瀀⸀ 吀栀攀 洀愀椀渀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 戀攀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 渀漀 最爀漀甀瀀 戀礀 琀栀愀琀 渀愀洀攀 挀愀渀 戀攀ഊfound in Scandinavia of that time. Moreover, the Russian Chronicle "states ਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 漀渀攀∀ ⠀刀椀愀稀愀渀漀瘀猀欀礀 瀀⸀ ㈀㠀⤀⸀ഊ ਀匀漀洀攀 琀攀砀琀猀 挀漀渀琀爀愀猀琀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀椀猀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀 挀漀渀琀爀愀猀琀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀ഊthe Kievan Rus and other Slavs. Kievan Rus is often referred to as "Rus" as ਀漀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀Ⰰ 猀愀礀Ⰰ 琀漀 琀栀攀 一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀 匀氀愀瘀猀 攀瘀攀渀 椀渀 洀甀挀栀 氀愀琀攀爀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀 攀渀琀爀椀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀䘀椀渀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 刀椀愀稀愀渀漀瘀猀欀礀 挀漀渀挀氀甀搀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀ഊ ਀∀䤀渀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 瀀爀椀渀挀攀猀Ⰰ 琀漀 愀渀搀 攀砀挀氀甀搀椀渀最 匀瘀椀愀琀漀猀氀愀瘀Ⰰ 愀猀ഊwell as the names of many of their followers in the treaties with Byzantium, ਀洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 洀愀樀漀爀椀琀礀 漀昀 猀挀栀漀氀愀爀猀 漀甀琀猀椀搀攀 琀栀攀 匀漀瘀椀攀琀 唀渀椀漀渀 琀漀搀愀礀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀 琀栀攀ഊfirst Russian dynasty and its immediate retinue as Scandinavian. Yet, even if ਀眀攀 愀挀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀椀猀 瘀椀攀眀Ⰰ 椀琀 爀攀洀愀椀渀猀 搀愀渀最攀爀漀甀猀 琀漀 瀀漀猀琀甀氀愀琀攀 最爀愀渀搀 一漀爀洀愀渀 搀攀猀椀最渀猀ഊfor eastern Europe, or to interpret the role of Vikings on the Russian plain ਀戀礀 愀渀愀氀漀最礀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀椀爀 洀甀挀栀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀挀琀椀瘀椀琀椀攀猀 椀渀 一漀爀洀愀渀搀礀 漀爀 椀渀 匀椀挀椀氀礀⸀ 䄀ഊhistorian can go beyond his evidence only at his own peril." (p. 30). ਀ഊSo there is no clear evidence that the Rus' were Scandinavian at all, or any ਀瀀漀猀椀琀椀瘀攀 瀀爀漀漀昀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 刀甀爀椀欀椀搀 搀礀渀愀猀琀礀 眀愀猀 漀昀 一漀爀猀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀ഊthe accepted theory. The cultural distinction between the (probably) Norse ਀爀甀氀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀 搀椀猀愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀 瘀攀爀礀 攀愀爀氀礀 漀渀Ⰰ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 戀攀昀漀爀攀ഊthe IX century when names that were almost clearly Norse ceased to be used. ਀䌀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䌀栀爀漀渀椀挀氀攀猀 琀漀 愀渀礀 氀椀渀最甀椀猀琀椀挀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀猀ഊbetween the Rurikid princes and the population. Or any kind of cultural ਀琀攀渀猀椀漀渀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 琀眀漀 最爀漀甀瀀猀Ⰰ 漀渀氀礀 攀砀瀀攀挀琀攀搀 瀀漀氀椀琀椀挀愀氀 漀瀀瀀漀猀椀琀椀漀渀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀ഊpowerful and wealthy groups, the landowners on the one side, and the ਀洀椀氀椀琀愀爀礀 氀攀愀搀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 愀搀洀椀渀椀猀琀爀愀琀漀爀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀⸀ഊ ਀䄀 瀀漀椀渀琀 琀漀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 ∀一漀爀洀愀渀猀∀ 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 椀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 愀爀攀ഊnot the same Normans of English history. It was just a term used ਀椀渀琀攀爀挀栀愀渀最攀愀戀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 ∀一漀爀猀攀Ⰰ∀ ∀嘀椀欀椀渀最∀ 愀渀搀 ∀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀∀ ⴀⴀ 愀 瘀愀最甀攀 琀攀爀洀ഊrather than a specific one. ਀ഊPredslava ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㈀㨀㈀㤀㨀㐀㘀 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock) ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Re: Pre-Seventeenth Cent. Slavic Sources ਀ഊOn Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:46:54 -0800 (PST) Beth Ann Snead ਀㰀氀愀搀礀瀀攀礀琀漀渀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ>Help! I need a pre-seventeenth century slavic motif for an arts ਀㸀琀爀椀愀琀栀愀氀漀渀 䤀✀洀 攀渀琀攀爀椀渀最 椀渀 䘀攀戀爀甀愀爀礀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 一伀 椀搀攀愀 眀栀攀爀攀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀ഊ>since my area of expertise is neither slavic nor needlework. I'm ਀㸀栀漀瀀椀渀最 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 漀渀攀 戀氀愀挀欀眀漀爀欀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀Ⰰ ⠀䤀昀 渀漀琀 愀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀 愀琀ഊ>least a picture to develope a pattern from.) and one generic ਀㸀攀洀戀爀漀椀搀攀爀礀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀⸀  䤀昀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 挀漀甀氀搀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀 洀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 㸀爀椀最栀琀ഊdirection. ਀ഊThe two books I would suggest are: ਀ഊ_Embroidery of All Russia_ by Mary Gostelow, 1977. New York: Charles ਀匀挀爀椀戀渀攀爀✀猀 匀漀渀猀⸀  䤀匀䈀一 　ⴀ㘀㠀㐀ⴀ㄀㔀㄀㠀㐀ⴀ㜀  䄀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 洀漀猀琀氀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀ഊsome good examples of period embroideries. ਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 昀攀氀琀 愀瀀瀀氀椀焀甀攀 眀漀爀欀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ5th century, BC. ਀䴀漀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀甀渀琀攀搀 猀琀椀琀挀栀 眀漀爀欀 猀栀漀眀渀 椀猀 眀攀氀氀 瀀愀猀琀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 漀昀ഊinterest. ਀ഊ_Russian Illuminated Manuscripts_ by Olga Popova, 1994, Aurora Arts ਀倀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀爀猀Ⰰ 䰀攀渀椀渀最爀愀搀⸀  䘀椀爀猀琀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 椀渀 唀匀䄀 ㄀㤀㠀㐀Ⰰ 吀栀愀洀攀猀 ☀ 䠀甀搀猀漀渀ⰀഊInc., NY. ISBN 0-500-27310-3 Even though most of the color ਀椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 ⠀爀攀瀀氀椀挀愀猀 漀昀 洀愀渀甀猀挀爀椀瀀琀 瀀愀最攀猀⤀ 愀爀攀 昀爀漀洀 爀攀氀椀最椀漀甀猀ഊdocuments, there are a lot of wonderful border designs and other setaile ਀琀栀愀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 攀愀猀椀氀礀 挀漀渀瘀攀爀琀攀搀 琀漀 攀洀戀爀漀椀搀攀爀礀 漀爀 愀瀀瀀氀椀焀甀攀 瀀愀琀琀攀爀渀猀⸀ഊ ਀䄀氀猀漀 氀漀漀欀 昀漀爀 愀爀琀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 愀渀搀 挀漀昀昀攀攀 琀愀戀氀攀 戀漀漀欀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀爀攀愀猀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊKremlin, Scythian gold work, Dark Ages tribal migrations, end such. ਀ഊHertha ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 一漀瘀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㌀㨀㄀㜀㨀㔀㔀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "K. E. Reinhart" ਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ愀爀琀猀 愀琀 爀愀瘀攀渀⸀挀挀⸀甀欀愀渀猀⸀攀搀甀ഊSubject: Slavic Sources ਀ഊAnother book with good pictures of Slavic art & embroidery ਀ഊAlpatov, M. W. & Olga Dacenko. Art Treasures of Russia. ਀        一攀眀 夀漀爀欀㨀 䠀愀爀爀礀 一⸀ 䄀戀爀愀洀猀Ⰰ 渀⸀ 搀⸀  䰀䌀⌀ 㘀㜀ⴀ㄀㈀㘀㠀㌀ഊ ਀䬀攀爀愀渀 刀漀猀氀椀渀ഊSterlynge Vayle ਀䄀䔀琀栀攀氀洀攀愀爀挀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:55:55 -0600 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀攀渀渀⼀夀愀渀愀 㰀樀搀洀椀氀氀攀爀㈀ 愀琀 猀琀甀搀攀渀琀猀⸀眀椀猀挀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Replies to Centre, marmalde and russian recipe queries ਀ഊAkim wrote regarding Russian cookbooks: ਀ഊ>Perhaps there are documents in the Novgorod-Seversky ਀㸀攀砀挀愀瘀愀琀椀漀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 洀愀礀 搀椀猀挀漀瘀攀爀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀Ⰰ  䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀琀 琀栀愀琀 椀昀 ㄀㈀琀栀ഊ>century recipes exist, it will be from those digs. My hunch is based on this ਀㸀爀攀愀猀漀渀椀渀最⸀  唀渀氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀椀爀 挀漀渀琀攀洀瀀漀爀愀爀椀攀猀 椀渀 眀攀猀琀攀爀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 愀ഊ>majority of the citizens of Novgorod-Seversky were generally literate; not ਀㸀樀甀猀琀 琀栀攀 渀漀戀椀氀椀琀礀 漀爀 琀栀攀 挀栀甀爀挀栀 栀攀椀爀愀爀挀栀礀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀爀礀漀渀攀⸀  䰀椀琀攀爀愀挀礀  琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀ഊ>very comparable to modern America, perhaps even surpassing it. They used ਀㸀琀栀攀 瀀氀攀渀琀椀昀甀氀 戀愀爀欀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀栀椀琀攀 戀椀爀挀栀 琀爀攀攀Ⰰ 眀爀椀琀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀琀礀氀甀猀 愀猀 琀栀攀ഊ>bark surface darkened when compressed. The soil acidity and low ਀㸀琀攀洀瀀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀猀  漀昀 琀栀椀猀 挀椀琀礀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 氀椀琀攀爀愀氀氀礀 琀漀渀猀 漀昀 渀漀琀攀猀 愀渀搀ഊ>personal letters written on birchbark. We have letters of mundane subjects ਀㸀氀椀欀攀 愀 栀甀猀戀愀渀搀 愀猀欀椀渀最 栀椀猀 眀椀昀攀 琀漀 猀攀渀搀 栀椀洀 栀椀猀 琀眀漀 戀攀猀琀 猀栀椀爀琀猀 愀渀搀 渀攀眀ഊ>underwear. This hoard of preserved data is unique to this city-state of ਀㸀愀渀挀椀攀渀琀 刀甀猀 愀猀 挀漀渀搀椀琀椀漀渀猀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 搀愀琀愀 椀渀 洀漀爀攀 猀漀甀琀栀攀爀氀礀ഊ>cities like Kiev. If "Mrs Ivanovich" wrote her recipes down, it is most ਀㸀氀椀欀攀氀礀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 猀琀椀氀氀 攀砀椀猀琀 栀攀爀攀⸀ഊ ਀夀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀椀爀挀栀戀愀爀欀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀猀 愀爀攀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 昀漀爀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 愀渀搀 愀渀ഊastounding archaeological find. And of course, we don't know what is going ਀琀漀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀甀琀甀爀攀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最猀⸀  䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀椀爀挀栀戀愀爀欀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀猀 眀攀爀攀ഊnot meant for permanent storage, they were for notes and messages, not ਀戀漀漀欀ⴀ氀攀渀最琀栀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀猀⸀  䄀渀 攀渀琀椀爀攀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀 椀猀 渀漀琀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 漀昀ഊa birchbark document, but a single recipe or some notes on food is ਀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀⸀  一漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 昀漀甀渀搀 礀攀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 琀漀漀 栀漀瀀攀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 昀爀愀最洀攀渀琀 漀昀 愀ഊrecipe reference. ਀ഊ>I have recently discovered a Russian national selling Russian subject books ਀㸀漀渀 䔀戀愀礀 眀栀漀 栀愀猀 猀漀氀搀 洀攀 猀漀洀攀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 爀攀猀漀甀爀挀攀 琀攀砀琀猀 漀渀ഊ>Novgorod. She is Lyudmila Khononov, in Brooklyn NY. Perhaps she could use ਀㸀栀攀爀 挀漀渀琀愀挀琀猀 椀渀 戀漀漀欀ⴀ猀攀氀氀椀渀最 琀漀 猀攀攀 椀昀 椀渀ⴀ瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀漀漀欀攀爀礀 戀漀漀欀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀眀ഊ>available. Her address is Lkon5 at aol.com . Her company name and Ebay ਀㸀猀攀氀氀攀爀猀 椀⸀搀⸀ 椀猀∀刀甀猀猀椀愀渀琀爀漀礀欀愀∀⸀ഊ ਀夀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 戀攀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 漀昀昀 眀椀琀栀 嘀椀欀琀漀爀 䬀愀洀欀椀渀  ⠀眀眀眀⸀欀愀洀欀椀渀⸀挀漀洀⤀ 漀爀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀ഊPanorama (www.panrus.com). I have bought from RussianTroyka, but they are ਀愀 爀攀猀攀氀氀攀爀 愀渀搀 ⠀氀愀猀琀 琀椀洀攀 䤀 挀栀攀挀欀攀搀⤀ 眀漀甀氀搀 漀渀氀礀 猀攀氀氀 琀漀 礀漀甀 椀昀 礀漀甀 戀椀搀 漀渀ഊeBay. Not the way I like to do business, YMMV. Kamkin is the respected ਀一漀爀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 昀漀爀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 戀漀漀欀猀⸀  吀栀攀礀 最攀琀 洀漀猀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀ഊan incredible warehouse in Rockford MD. However, no period cookbooks yet! :) ਀ഊ- --Yana ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀ 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㠀㨀㐀㄀㨀㔀㔀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Huette von Ahrens ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 爀甀猀猀椀愀渀 戀漀漀欀 瘀攀渀搀漀爀猀ഊ ਀ⴀ ⴀⴀⴀ 䨀攀渀渀⼀夀愀渀愀 㰀樀搀洀椀氀氀攀爀㈀ 愀琀 猀琀甀搀攀渀琀猀⸀眀椀猀挀⸀攀搀甀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> You would probably be better off with Viktor Kamkin ਀㸀 ⠀眀眀眀⸀欀愀洀欀椀渀⸀挀漀洀⤀ 漀爀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 倀愀渀漀爀愀洀愀 ⠀眀眀眀⸀瀀愀渀爀甀猀⸀挀漀洀⤀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀漀甀最栀琀 昀爀漀洀ഊ> RussianTroyka, but they are a reseller and (last time I checked) would only ਀㸀 猀攀氀氀 琀漀 礀漀甀 椀昀 礀漀甀 戀椀搀 漀渀 攀䈀愀礀⸀  一漀琀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 䤀 氀椀欀攀 琀漀 搀漀 戀甀猀椀渀攀猀猀Ⰰ 夀䴀䴀嘀⸀ഊ> Kamkin is the respected North American source for Russian books. They get ਀㸀 洀漀猀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀琀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀 椀渀挀爀攀搀椀戀氀攀 眀愀爀攀栀漀甀猀攀 椀渀 刀漀挀欀昀漀爀搀 䴀䐀⸀  䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 渀漀ഊ> period cookbooks yet! :) ਀㸀ഊ> --Yana ਀ഊAn even better Russian book vendor than Kamkin is: ਀ഊEast View Publications ਀㌀　㈀　 䠀愀爀戀漀爀 䰀愀渀攀 一漀爀琀栀ഊSuite 110 ਀䴀椀渀渀攀愀瀀漀氀椀猀Ⰰ 䴀一 㔀㔀㐀㐀㠀ഊ1-800-477-1005 ਀攀ⴀ洀愀椀氀㨀 戀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 攀愀猀琀瘀椀攀眀⸀挀漀洀ഊwebsite: http://www.eastview.com ਀ഊEast View has offices in Russia and almost all of the ਀戀爀攀愀欀愀眀愀礀 爀攀瀀甀戀氀椀挀猀⸀  䤀渀 洀礀 ㄀㔀 礀攀愀爀猀 愀猀 愀渀ഊacquisitions librarian, I have (and still do) dealt ਀眀椀琀栀 䬀愀洀欀椀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 䔀愀猀琀 嘀椀攀眀 昀愀猀琀攀爀Ⰰ 洀漀爀攀ഊe-mail responsive and better in finding obscure books ਀琀栀愀渀 䬀愀洀欀椀渀⸀  䬀愀洀欀椀渀 椀猀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 椀渀 搀攀愀氀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀ഊsubscriptions, in my opinion. ਀ഊHuette ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀漀爀搀 䴀椀欀栀椀愀氀 㰀猀樀挀氀攀洀㄀一伀猀樀匀倀䄀䴀 愀琀 栀漀琀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀⸀椀渀瘀愀氀椀搀㸀ഊSubject: Re: Russian Armor ਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊDate: Fri, 26 May 2000 04:11:21 -0700 ਀ഊ I am Lord Mikhial Da'Mianovich, I'm currently living in the Kingdom ਀漀昀 䌀愀椀搀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 搀漀椀渀最 琀栀椀猀 昀漀爀 琀眀漀 礀攀愀爀猀⸀  䰀愀猀琀 猀甀洀洀攀爀 䤀 眀愀猀ഊresearching for Russian armor like yourself and have found two types ਀洀漀猀琀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 甀猀攀搀⸀  䘀椀爀猀琀 琀礀瀀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 挀栀愀椀渀 洀愀椀氀 眀栀椀挀栀 洀漀猀琀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 愀爀攀ഊfamiliar with if there is an armorer in the area. I chose to go a ਀搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 搀椀爀攀挀琀椀漀渀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀攀 愀 洀漀爀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀 氀漀漀欀⸀ ഊBeginning in the 13th century, the Rus created an armor called "KUYAK" ਀椀琀 眀愀猀 戀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀 愀 氀漀渀最 猀栀椀爀琀 漀昀 栀椀搀攀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 戀爀漀渀稀攀 瀀氀愀琀攀猀ഊriveted throughout. I'm leaving two site address, feel free to check ਀琀栀攀洀 漀甀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 搀攀琀愀椀氀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 愀爀洀漀爀 愀渀搀 眀攀愀瀀漀渀猀Ⰰഊit has good pictures of the armor I mentioned. The second one is of my ਀栀漀洀攀瀀愀最攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 洀礀 瀀栀漀琀漀最爀愀瀀栀攀爀 眀愀猀渀✀琀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 愀渀搀 洀礀 瀀椀挀猀 愀爀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀ഊdark so you may not be able to see how I did it. ਀ഊhttp://members.aol.com/johns426/partII.htm#Kuyak ਀ഊhttp://www.geocities.com/Paris/Loft/9623/SCA.html ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 猀氀栀㄀㔀　　 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀匀䰀䠀㄀㔀　　⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 一攀眀䌀漀洀攀爀猀 䠀愀渀搀戀漀漀欀猀 䤀搀攀愀猀⼀䌀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀⼀䠀攀氀瀀ഊDate: 02 Jun 2000 06:53:02 GMT ਀ഊThese are my favorites, particularly the last two. sasha ਀ഊhttp://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2/knowledge/clothing.html ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀挀漀猀琀甀洀攀猀⸀漀爀最⼀瀀愀最攀猀⼀爀甀猀猀挀漀猀琀氀椀渀欀猀⸀栀琀洀ഊhttp://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀猀椀琀⸀眀椀猀挀⸀攀搀甀⼀縀樀搀洀椀氀氀攀爀㈀⼀琀椀愀爀琀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊhttp://www.huscarl.com/costume/text/russiandoc.htm ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀洀攀洀戀攀爀猀⸀愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀⼀倀爀攀搀猀氀愀瘀愀⼀䜀椀氀椀愀爀漀瘀猀欀愀椀愀倀愀琀琀攀爀渀猀⸀栀琀洀氀⌀䜀攀渀攀爀愀氀ഊhttp://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/rubakha.html ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀琀栀攀欀攀攀瀀⸀渀攀琀⼀愀瘀攀氀椀渀愀⼀挀漀猀琀甀洀攀⼀挀愀琀愀氀漀最㄀⸀栀琀洀ഊhttp://www.sovietski.com/ ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀椀洀瀀漀爀琀猀爀甀猀猀椀愀⸀挀漀洀⼀愀渀渀愀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊhttp://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 瘀愀氀开漀爀最 愀琀 栀漀琀洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䜀甀渀渀漀爀愀 䠀愀氀氀愀欀愀爀瘀愀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 倀攀爀猀漀渀愀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 ⠀䬀椀攀瘀⼀刀甀猀⼀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀㼀⤀ 栀攀氀瀀 刀䔀䄀䰀䰀夀 眀愀渀琀攀搀⸀ 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊDate: 16 Jul 2001 09:33:46 -0700 ਀ഊNomadNStarkhafnNOSPAM at aol.com (Nomad in Starkhafn) wrote ਀㸀 伀欀愀礀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 眀栀愀琀 䤀✀瘀攀 最漀琀 猀漀 昀愀爀⸀⸀⸀ 吀爀愀搀攀爀 戀漀爀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 礀攀愀爀 㤀㔀　 䄀䐀Ⰰഊ> born in Kiev, parents were Scandinavian traders. I have some basic ਀㸀 最愀爀戀 猀漀 昀愀爀⸀ 䤀✀搀 刀䔀䄀䰀䰀夀 愀瀀瀀爀攀挀椀愀琀攀 唀刀䰀猀 愀渀搀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 戀漀漀欀 琀椀琀氀攀猀 䤀ഊ> could borrow from the library. ਀ഊAlso take a look at: ਀ഊThe real Risala of Ibn Fadlan ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瘀椀欀椀渀最愀渀猀眀攀爀氀愀搀礀⸀漀爀最⼀椀戀渀开昀搀氀渀⸀栀琀洀ഊ ਀䄀渀 椀渀琀爀漀 琀漀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀 椀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 愀渀搀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀甀洀ഊhttp://www.vikinganswerlady.org/varangians.htm ਀ഊSeveral websites of the New Varangian Guard reenactment group: ਀唀⸀匀⸀ 一嘀䜀ഊhttp://web.missouri.edu/~tm104/Varangian ਀ഊAustralia NVG ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀最攀漀挀椀琀椀攀猀⸀挀漀洀⼀猀瘀攀渀猀欀椀氀搀戀椀琀攀爀⼀一嘀䜀䤀渀挀⼀椀渀搀攀砀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ ਀䠀漀氀琀栀漀攀爀Ⰰ 刀⸀ 䈀椀爀挀栀ⴀ䈀愀爀欀 䐀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀猀 昀爀漀洀 一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀 刀攀氀愀琀椀渀最 琀漀 䘀椀渀氀愀渀搀ഊand Scandinavia. Acta Universitatis Uppsaliensis 19. Uppsala: ਀唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 唀瀀瀀猀愀氀愀⸀ ㄀㤀㠀㄀⸀ഊ ਀䰀椀渀搀焀甀椀猀琀Ⰰ 匀瘀攀渀ⴀ伀氀愀昀Ⰰ 攀搀⸀ 匀漀挀椀攀琀礀 愀渀搀 吀爀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀愀氀琀椀挀 䐀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀ഊViking Age. Acta Visbyensia 7. Visby: Gotlands fornsal. 1985. ਀ഊMuller-Wille, Michael, ed. Oldenburg-Wolin-Staraja ਀䰀愀搀漀最愀ⴀ一漀瘀最漀爀漀搀ⴀ䬀椀攀瘀㨀 䠀愀渀搀攀氀 甀渀搀 䠀愀渀搀攀氀猀爀攀爀戀椀渀搀甀渀最攀渀 椀洀 猀甀搀氀椀挀栀攀渀 甀渀搀ഊostlichen Ostseraum wahrend des fruhen Mittelalters. Bericht RGK 69. ਀㄀㤀㠀㠀⸀ഊ ਀一漀漀渀愀渀Ⰰ 吀栀漀洀愀猀 匀⸀ ∀吀栀攀 嘀椀欀椀渀最猀 愀渀搀 刀甀猀猀椀愀㨀 匀漀洀攀 一攀眀 䐀椀爀攀挀琀椀漀渀猀 愀渀搀ഊApproaches to an Old Problem." in Social Approaches to Viking Studies. ਀攀搀⸀ 刀漀猀猀 匀愀洀猀漀渀⸀ 䜀氀愀猀最漀眀㨀 䌀爀甀椀琀栀渀攀 倀爀攀猀猀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㤀㄀⸀ 瀀瀀⸀ ㈀　㄀ⴀ㈀　㘀⸀ 琀漀 戀甀礀ഊfrom Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1873448007/thevikinganswerl ਀ഊPalsson, Hermann and Paul Edwards. Vikings in Russia: Yngvar's Saga ਀愀渀搀 䔀礀洀甀渀搀✀猀 匀愀最愀⸀ 䔀搀椀渀戀甀爀最栀㨀 䔀搀椀渀戀甀爀最栀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 倀爀攀猀猀⸀ ㄀㤀㠀㤀⸀ഊTo buy from Amazon.com: ਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀愀洀愀稀漀渀⸀挀漀洀⼀攀砀攀挀⼀漀戀椀搀漀猀⼀䄀匀䤀一⼀　㠀㔀㈀㈀㐀㘀㈀㌀㐀⼀琀栀攀瘀椀欀椀渀最愀渀猀眀攀爀氀ഊ ਀匀愀眀礀攀爀Ⰰ 倀攀琀攀爀Ⰰ 伀洀攀氀椀愀渀 倀爀椀琀猀愀欀Ⰰ 䈀攀渀最琀 䔀⸀ 䠀漀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 吀栀漀洀愀猀 匀⸀ 一漀漀渀愀渀ⰀഊTalvio Tuukka, Jutta Waller and Anne Stalsburg. "Relations Between ਀匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 匀漀甀琀栀攀愀猀琀攀爀渀 䈀愀氀琀椀挀 ⼀ 一漀爀琀栀攀愀猀琀攀爀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊViking Age." Journal of Baltic Studies 13:3 (1982) pp. 175-295. ਀ഊThere are a ton of journal articles out there, in English, Finnish, ਀愀渀搀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 搀攀愀氀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 刀甀猀 愀渀搀 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀猀 椀渀ഊRussia. I'd start with the ones above and mine thir bibliographies ਀昀漀爀 洀漀爀攀 氀攀愀搀猀⸀ഊ ਀㨀㨀䜀唀一一伀刀䄀㨀㨀ഊ ਀ഊSubject: Re: [MR] Help with Russian persona - with heavy Mongol ਀漀瘀攀爀琀漀渀攀猀 㬀⤀ഊDate: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:22:37 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 爀洀栀漀眀攀 㰀䴀䴀愀最渀甀猀䴀 愀琀 戀攀氀氀猀漀甀琀栀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊTo: Atlantia ਀ഊLarissa Simmons wrote: ਀㸀   䤀 愀洀 椀渀 渀攀攀搀 漀昀 栀攀氀瀀 椀渀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀洀攀渀琀 漀昀 洀礀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀⸀ഊ> I am satisfied with my first name, but need a second name. ਀㸀 䴀礀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀 椀猀 挀椀爀挀愀 ㄀㄀㈀㐀 椀渀 䬀椀攀瘀 愀渀搀 栀愀猀 琀椀攀猀 戀漀琀栀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䬀椀攀瘀愀渀ഊ> nobility and the Mongol horde (thus far, I may need help tweaking her ਀㸀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⤀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 愀渀搀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 渀愀洀攀 最甀椀搀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 椀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀渀搀 䤀✀洀 猀甀爀攀 ഊthe Academy of St. Gabriel knows of them. It's easier to use St. Gabriel ਀眀栀漀 琀栀椀渀欀 渀愀洀攀 瀀甀稀稀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 昀甀渀渀礀 琀漀 愀爀最甀攀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀漀 搀漀 椀琀 礀漀甀爀猀攀氀昀 ഊfrequently. I imagine you can reach them off of http://www.sca/org/ ਀甀渀搀攀爀 䠀攀爀愀氀搀爀礀 漀爀 一愀洀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀㸀 䤀 愀氀猀漀 渀攀攀搀 琀漀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀攀爀攀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 昀漀爀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 愀爀洀漀爀 瀀漀猀琀 ഊ> Kievan Age Russia. I am grateful for all help. ਀㸀 䤀渀 匀攀爀瘀椀挀攀Ⰰ ⴀ 䤀愀爀漀猀氀愀瘀渀愀ഊ ਀匀挀愀氀攀 愀渀搀 洀愀椀氀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ 匀漀 眀攀爀攀ഊhelmets of either spangenhelm or single raised conical helms with a ਀渀愀猀愀氀 愀渀搀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀椀瘀攀 戀爀漀眀 愀渀搀 攀礀攀戀爀漀眀 搀攀挀漀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀⸀ 䰀攀愀琀栀攀爀 愀爀洀漀甀爀ഊwas used by the mongols frequently over a loose silk shirt. This ਀栀愀搀 琀栀攀 愀搀瘀愀渀琀愀最攀 漀昀 渀漀琀 挀甀琀琀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 愀 渀漀爀洀愀氀 挀氀漀琀栀 眀漀漀搀 愀渀搀 攀愀猀椀渀最ഊthe withdrawal of an arrowhead. The loose silk threads also pulled ਀愀渀礀 挀漀爀爀甀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀甀渀搀 漀甀琀⸀ 吀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 愀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 氀愀洀椀渀愀琀攀搀ഊscale cuirass I know of is in the Eyewitness book on Russia. ਀ഊAs far as most armor pictures go they principally exist on pottery ਀漀爀 攀渀最爀愀瘀攀搀 愀渀搀 攀洀戀漀猀猀攀搀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀猀⸀ 伀猀瀀爀攀礀 栀愀猀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 戀漀漀欀猀 漀渀ഊthe Mongols and Medieval Russian Armies in their various series. ਀䤀渀 琀栀攀 䌀愀洀瀀愀椀最渀猀 匀攀爀椀攀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 䈀愀琀琀氀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䬀愀氀欀愀 刀椀瘀攀爀⸀ഊMongols and Rus even fought with each other briefly against the ਀吀攀甀琀漀渀椀挀 䬀渀椀最栀琀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀椀爀 愀氀氀椀攀猀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 椀猀 椀渀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀猀 琀栀愀琀ഊOsprey puts out by Dr. David Nicolle. In the Osprey series alone ਀礀漀甀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 昀椀渀搀 㐀 漀爀 猀漀 最漀漀搀 戀漀漀欀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀眀栀攀爀攀ഊaround a hundred and ten of the things. Some of the Romano-Byzantine ਀愀爀洀漀爀 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 戀攀 琀漀漀 昀愀爀 漀昀昀⸀ 䤀琀 栀攀愀瘀椀氀礀 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀猀Ⰰഊand the Mongols were fighting in that area as well. ਀ഊOsprey Man at Arms 105 The Mongols ISBN 0850453720 132282 ਀伀猀瀀爀攀礀 䌀愀洀瀀愀椀最渀 匀攀爀椀攀猀 㤀㠀 䬀愀氀欀愀 刀椀瘀攀爀 ㄀㈀㈀㌀䄀䐀       ㄀㠀㐀㄀㜀㘀㈀㌀㌀㐀  ㄀㌀㐀㄀㠀㜀ഊOsprey Campaign Series 46 Lake Peipus 1242AD 1855325535 132104 ਀伀猀瀀爀攀礀 䴀䄀䄀  ㌀㌀㌀ 䄀爀洀椀攀猀 漀昀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀 㜀㔀　ⴀ㄀㈀㔀　 ㄀㠀㔀㔀㌀㈀㠀㐀㠀㠀  ㄀㌀㈀㔀　㌀ ഊOsprey MAA 251 Medieval Chinese Armies 1260-1520 1855322544 ਀ऀ䐀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 攀爀愀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 爀甀氀攀搀 愀猀ഊ the Yuan Dynasty. Their successors were overthrown by ਀ऀ䴀椀渀最 䐀礀渀愀猀琀礀⸀ 匀漀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 眀愀爀爀椀漀爀猀⸀ഊOsprey MAA 295 Imperial Chinese Armies 590-1260 AD 1855325993 ਀ऀ吀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀 搀椀瘀攀爀猀攀 最爀漀甀瀀 漀昀 吀爀椀戀攀猀 甀渀琀椀氀 䜀攀渀最栀椀猀 ഊ Khan united and named them. The last part of this book ਀ऀ椀猀 愀瀀瀀氀椀挀愀戀氀攀⸀ഊ ਀伀猀瀀爀攀礀 䴀䄀䄀 ㈀㠀㜀 䈀礀稀愀渀琀椀渀攀 䄀爀洀椀攀猀 ㄀㄀㄀㠀ⴀ㄀㐀㘀㄀ 䄀䐀       ㄀㠀㔀㔀㌀㈀㌀㐀㜀㠀ഊ Remember these folks were highly influencial on the ਀ऀ猀甀爀爀漀甀渀搀椀渀最 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀 最爀攀愀琀 洀愀渀礀 ഊ depicted in period paintings and modern illustrations ਀ऀ愀渀搀 瀀栀漀琀漀最爀愀瀀栀猀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 栀愀猀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 匀挀愀氀攀 䄀爀洀漀甀爀 愀渀搀ഊ weaponry in it. The Vikings served them as the ਀ऀ嘀愀爀愀渀最椀愀渀 䜀甀愀爀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 琀栀攀礀 最漀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀ഊ on the rivers passing through many areas north to ਀ऀ猀漀甀琀栀⸀ 吀栀攀 刀甀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀 琀爀椀戀攀 漀昀 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀猀 椀渀瘀椀琀攀搀ഊ in to rule the early Russian slavs. ਀ഊOsprey MAA 222 The Age of Tamerlane by David Nicolle PhD. ਀　㠀㔀　㐀㔀㤀㐀㤀㐀           ഊ Warfare in the Middle East 1350-1500 AD. A Turcified ਀ऀ䴀漀渀最漀氀 搀攀猀挀攀渀搀愀渀琀 愀渀搀 䌀漀渀焀甀攀爀漀爀⸀ 倀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀 戀椀琀 氀愀琀攀ഊ for you, but might prove useful for the ethnicity. ਀ഊNational Geographic Vol. 190, No. 6, December 1996 issue on ਀ऀ䜀栀攀渀最栀椀猀 䬀栀愀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 戀攀最椀渀渀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 挀漀渀焀甀攀猀琀猀⸀ഊ Written by Mike Edwards, Photographs by James. L. Stanfield. ਀ऀ䴀愀瀀 匀甀瀀瀀氀攀洀攀渀琀 眀椀琀栀 愀 洀漀渀最漀氀 最攀爀 眀愀最漀渀 琀爀愀椀渀 漀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀瘀攀爀猀攀⸀ഊ Pages 3-37. ਀ഊNational Geographic Vol. 191, No. 2, February 1997 issue on ਀ऀ匀漀渀猀 漀昀 䜀攀渀最栀椀猀 ⴀ 吀栀攀 䜀爀攀愀琀 䬀栀愀渀猀 瀀愀最攀猀 ㈀ⴀ㌀㔀⸀ഊ Written by Mike Edwards, Photographs by James. L. Stanfield. ਀ऀ吀栀椀猀 挀漀瘀攀爀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀戀猀攀焀甀攀渀琀 攀砀瀀愀渀猀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 ഊ Mongol Khans taking the empire to its greatest extent. ਀ഊEighteen Songs of a Nomad Flute - the Story of Lady Wen-Chi, 1974, ਀ऀ䴀攀琀爀漀瀀漀氀椀琀愀渀 䴀甀猀攀甀洀 漀昀 䄀爀琀Ⰰ 㠀㤀 瀀愀最攀猀Ⰰ ㄀㠀 挀漀氀漀爀⠀昀甀氀氀ⴀ瀀愀最攀⤀Ⰰ ഊ 73 black/white reproductions; text of poems on scroll by Liu ਀ऀ匀栀愀渀最Ⰰ 㠀琀栀 䌀⸀㬀 瀀愀椀渀琀椀渀最猀 戀礀 甀渀欀渀漀眀渀 ㄀㈀琀栀 䌀⸀ 愀爀琀椀猀琀⸀ 䤀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀Ⰰഊ commentary and translation of poems by Robert A. Rorex and ਀ऀ圀攀渀 䘀漀渀最Ⰰ 䐀椀猀琀爀椀戀甀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 夀漀爀欀 䜀爀愀瀀椀挀 匀漀挀椀攀琀礀Ⰰ 栀愀爀搀戀愀挀欀 ഊ in slip case, about sixty unnumbered pages. Although Lady Wen ਀ऀ䌀栀椀 眀愀猀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 愀戀搀甀挀琀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䄀䐀 戀礀 ഊ predecessors of the later Huns who troubled Rome, her story ਀ऀ眀愀猀 爀攀琀漀氀搀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀甀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 爀攀椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 渀攀眀 ഊ pictures. The ones in this book relate her as if she were ਀ऀ氀椀瘀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 琀眀攀氀昀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䴀漀渀最漀氀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀ഊ of their Gers and wagons, processions, and daily life is the ਀ऀ洀漀猀琀 愀挀挀甀爀愀琀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀⸀ 圀攀氀氀 眀漀爀琀栀 漀戀琀愀椀渀椀渀最⸀ഊ ਀䄀 䘀漀爀洀攀爀 䠀漀爀搀攀 䈀爀漀琀栀攀爀 漀昀 洀椀渀攀 眀栀漀 欀渀攀眀 愀渀搀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀攀搀 䴀漀渀最漀氀椀愀渀⼀ഊ Chinese Costumes quite a lot felt the best book on the ਀ऀ猀甀戀樀攀挀琀 椀猀 㔀　　　 礀攀愀爀猀 漀昀 䌀栀椀渀攀猀攀 䌀漀猀琀甀洀攀 椀昀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀ഊ find and afford one. ਀ ഊCompleat Anachronist # 99 Life in Thirteenth Century Novgorod ਀   戀礀 䜀爀攀最漀爀礀 圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 䘀爀甀砀⸀ 䄀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 猀琀漀挀欀 挀氀攀爀欀⸀ ഊ ਀䌀漀洀瀀氀攀愀琀 䄀渀愀挀栀爀漀渀椀猀琀 ⌀㌀㔀 䄀渀 䤀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䌀漀猀琀甀洀攀 ഊ by Soraya Evodia of Odessa, same stock clerk. ਀ഊCompleat Anachronist # 54 The Mongols by Georg of Glacier's Edge ਀   匀愀洀攀 猀琀漀挀欀 挀氀攀爀欀⸀  栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀猀挀愀⸀漀爀最⼀ 䴀攀洀戀攀爀猀栀椀瀀 猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀猀⸀ഊ ਀吀栀攀 䴀漀渀最漀氀 圀愀爀氀漀爀搀猀 ⴀ 䜀攀渀最栀椀猀 䬀栀愀渀 ⴀ 䬀甀戀氀愀椀 䬀栀愀渀 ⴀ 䠀甀氀攀最甀 ⴀ 吀愀洀攀爀氀愀渀攀㬀ഊby David Nicolle, plates by Richard Hook, Brockhampton Press, London, ਀㄀㤀㤀㠀Ⰰ 䠀愀爀搀戀愀挀欀Ⰰ 搀樀Ⰰ 㠀琀漀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㈀ 瀀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 䈀氀愀挀欀 愀渀搀 圀栀椀琀攀 愀渀搀 䌀漀氀漀甀爀 ഊIllustrations and Photographs (a great many actually). ਀ഊMarco Polo, The Historic Adventure Based on the Television Spectacular; ਀刀愀渀搀漀洀 䠀漀甀猀攀Ⰰ 一攀眀 夀漀爀欀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㠀㈀Ⰰ 䈀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀⼀䌀栀椀渀攀猀攀 䴀漀瘀椀攀ഊProduction. Storybook on the movie by Elizabeth Levy. Hardback ਀眀椀琀栀 挀漀氀漀爀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀 椀氀氀甀猀琀爀愀琀椀漀渀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀氀漀爀猀⸀ 㘀㈀ 瀀愀最攀猀⸀ 䤀匀䈀一 　㌀㤀㐀㠀㔀㌀㈀㤀㘀⸀ഊIf you -ever- get a chance to see the whole huge film don't miss it! ਀ഊAlso you might like to see the movie Alexander Nevsky. The 1939 film ਀眀愀猀 愀 瀀爀漀瀀愀最愀渀搀愀 昀椀氀洀 愀最愀椀渀猀琀 琀栀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀猀Ⰰ 栀漀眀攀瘀攀爀 椀琀 椀猀 瀀爀椀洀愀爀椀氀礀ഊbased on Fact. It's generally in VHS somewhere. The battle on the Ice ਀愀琀 䰀愀欀攀 倀攀椀瀀甀猀 椀猀 猀琀甀渀渀椀渀最 愀琀 琀椀洀攀猀⸀ 吀爀礀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀挀挀瘀椀搀攀漀⸀挀漀洀⼀ഊ ਀吀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 眀椀猀栀 琀漀 樀漀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀氀愀瘀椀挀 䤀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀 䜀爀漀甀瀀Ⰰ 漀爀 匀䤀䜀⸀ഊhttp://slavic.freeservers.com/ Which is composed of SCA members ਀眀栀漀 挀愀渀 愀椀搀 礀漀甀⸀ 䤀 戀氀椀渀搀 挀漀瀀椀攀搀 愀 昀攀眀 ⠀洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 漀氀搀 愀搀搀爀攀猀猀攀猀 戀甀琀ഊyou never know. You may get sucked in anyway.) ਀ഊIn any event, once you've made up your mind I am fairly sure we can ਀愀爀爀愀渀最攀 愀渀 愀戀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 礀漀甀爀猀攀氀昀Ⰰ 愀琀 礀漀甀爀 爀攀焀甀攀猀琀 愀琀 倀攀渀渀猀椀挀⸀ഊIt's happened before. Then you'll have your story, and someone ਀洀愀礀 瀀愀椀渀琀 愀渀搀 眀爀椀琀攀 琀栀攀 瀀漀攀洀猀 漀昀 愀 氀漀渀最 猀挀爀漀氀氀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀⸀ഊ ਀䴀愀猀琀攀爀 䴀愀最渀甀猀 䴀愀氀氀攀甀猀Ⰰ 伀䰀Ⰰ 䄀琀氀愀渀琀椀愀Ⰰ 䜀爀攀愀琀 䐀愀爀欀 䠀漀爀搀攀ഊKhan's Own Intelligence Agency ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀　 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀　㨀㐀㜀㨀㐀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Stephanie Ross" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 稀愀欀甀猀欀愀猀ഊTo: "SCA-Cooks" ਀ഊ<> ਀ഊI wish I could get my hands on evidence of any history for Russian food, ਀攀椀琀栀攀爀 瀀爀漀 漀爀 挀漀渀⸀ 匀漀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 椀猀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 椀琀 椀猀 椀洀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀ഊreliable sources that don't cross-reference each other as sources. This is ਀愀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 眀栀攀渀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀椀渀最 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 挀氀漀琀栀攀猀 愀猀 眀攀氀氀⸀ 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀ഊemotionally attached to my ideas, so if someone comes along and refutes ਀琀栀攀洀 眀椀琀栀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 琀栀爀椀氀氀攀搀 樀甀猀琀 琀漀 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 䬀一伀圀℀ഊ ਀縀䄀椀猀氀椀渀渀縀ഊ ਀ഊDate: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:05:51 -0400 ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀攀 愀琀 洀愀挀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] weird question - honey fast??? ਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ ਀㰀㰀㰀 倀氀攀愀猀攀 攀渀氀椀最栀琀攀渀 洀攀 䤀 挀愀渀渀漀琀 渀漀琀 昀椀最甀爀攀 栀漀眀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 漀渀攀 挀愀渀 昀愀琀栀漀洀 ഊhoney as a meat product. ਀匀甀攀礀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ ਀伀欀 䤀 栀椀琀 䜀漀漀最氀攀 䈀漀漀欀猀 琀栀椀猀 攀瘀攀渀椀渀最 愀渀搀 挀愀洀攀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 甀渀甀猀甀愀氀 ഊdocuments buried in that vast archive of stuff. ਀ഊFrom Senate Documents, Otherwise Publ. as Public Documents and Executive ਀䐀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀猀㨀 ㄀㐀琀栀 䌀漀渀最爀攀猀猀Ⰰ ㄀猀琀 匀攀猀猀椀漀渀ⴀ㐀㠀琀栀 䌀漀渀最爀攀猀猀Ⰰ ㈀渀搀 匀攀猀猀椀漀渀 愀渀搀 ഊSpecial Session ਀䈀礀 唀渀椀琀攀搀 匀琀愀琀攀猀 䌀漀渀最爀攀猀猀⸀ 匀攀渀愀琀攀ഊPublished by , 1856 ਀伀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 昀爀漀洀 伀砀昀漀爀搀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀ഊDigitized Dec 7, 2006 ਀ഊ BEES, WAX, AND HONEY. ਀ഊBEE-CULTURE IN RUSSIA. ਀ഊThe rearing of bees is extensively carried on in the several parts ਀漀昀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 刀甀猀猀椀愀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀爀愀氀 愀渀搀 猀漀甀琀栀攀爀渀 最漀瘀攀爀渀洀攀渀琀猀Ⰰഊas well as in the Polish and in the trans-Caucasian provinces. ਀吀栀椀猀 椀渀猀攀挀琀 愀挀挀氀椀洀愀琀椀猀攀猀 甀瀀 琀漀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 栀椀最栀 氀愀琀椀琀甀搀攀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 椀渀 匀椀戀攀爀椀愀⸀ഊIt was long thought that the climate of the latter country ਀眀愀猀 甀琀琀攀爀氀礀 甀渀猀甀椀琀愀戀氀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀爀椀渀最 漀昀 戀攀攀猀 㬀 戀甀琀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀ഊat the commencement of the present century in the governments of ਀吀漀洀猀欀Ⰰ 伀洀猀欀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䨀攀渀椀猀猀攀椀猀欀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀爀漀瘀攀搀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀琀爀愀爀礀⸀ 䤀琀 栀愀猀ഊgreatly suffered, however, in some provinces, from the destruction of ਀琀栀攀 昀漀爀攀猀琀猀㬀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 戀攀攀 瀀爀攀昀攀爀猀 眀攀氀氀 眀漀漀搀攀搀 搀椀猀琀爀椀挀琀猀Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 椀琀 椀猀 ഊprotected from the wind. The honey procured from the linden tree ( ਀吀椀氀椀愀 攀甀爀愀瀀挀攀搀⤀ 椀猀 漀渀氀礀 漀戀琀愀椀渀攀搀 愀琀 琀栀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀漀眀渀 漀昀 䬀漀眀渀漀Ⰰ 漀渀 琀栀攀ഊriver Niemen, in Lithuania, which is surrounded by an extensive forest ਀漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 琀爀攀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀爀椀渀最 漀挀挀甀瀀椀攀猀 琀栀攀 瀀爀椀渀挀椀瀀愀氀 愀琀琀攀渀琀椀漀渀ഊof the inhabitants. The Jews of Poland furnish a close imitation ਀漀昀 琀栀椀猀 栀漀渀攀礀Ⰰ 戀礀 戀氀攀愀挀栀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 欀椀渀搀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瀀攀渀 愀椀爀ഊduring frosty weather. ਀ഊThe ceremonies of the Greek church, requiring a large consumption ਀漀昀 眀愀砀 挀愀渀搀氀攀猀Ⰰ 最爀攀愀琀氀礀 昀愀瘀漀爀 琀栀椀猀 戀爀愀渀挀栀 漀昀 爀甀爀愀氀 攀挀漀渀漀洀礀 椀渀ഊRussia, and preserve it from the decline to which it is exposed in ਀漀琀栀攀爀 挀漀甀渀琀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 椀渀挀爀攀愀猀椀渀最 甀猀攀 漀昀 猀琀攀愀爀椀渀攀Ⰰ 漀椀氀Ⰰ 最愀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊfluids for illuminating purposes. The peasants produce wax so ਀挀栀攀愀瀀氀礀 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 渀漀琀眀椀琀栀猀琀愀渀搀椀渀最 琀栀攀 挀漀渀猀甀洀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 栀愀猀ഊgreatly diminished abroad, it still continues to form an important ਀椀琀攀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀甀渀琀爀礀 㬀 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀漀爀琀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 栀漀渀攀礀ഊhas considerably increased in consequence of the extended use of potato ਀猀礀爀甀瀀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀猀 愀氀猀漀 椀渀樀甀爀攀搀 琀栀攀 栀漀渀攀礀 琀爀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 椀渀琀攀爀椀漀爀⸀ഊThe rearing of bees is now almost exclusively dependent on the ਀洀愀渀甀昀愀挀琀甀爀攀 漀昀 挀愀渀搀氀攀猀 昀漀爀 爀攀氀椀最椀漀甀猀 挀攀爀攀洀漀渀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 挀漀渀猀甀洀瀀琀椀漀渀ഊof honey during Lent, it being then used instead of sugar, by the ਀猀琀爀椀挀琀 漀戀猀攀爀瘀攀爀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀愀猀琀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 最漀瘀攀爀渀洀攀渀琀 攀渀挀漀甀爀愀最攀猀 琀栀椀猀 戀爀愀渀挀栀ഊof rural industry, as affording to the peasant an extra source of income, ਀愀渀搀 栀愀猀 愀搀漀瀀琀攀搀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀愀猀甀爀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀漀洀瀀氀椀猀栀洀攀渀琀 漀昀ഊthis end. With the view of diffusing the requisite knowledge among ਀琀栀攀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀甀戀氀椀挀 搀漀洀愀椀渀猀Ⰰ 戀攀攀ⴀ栀椀瘀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 漀昀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀愀氀ഊinstruction upon the subject of bee-culture, have been established at ਀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀爀漀眀渀 昀愀爀洀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀瀀椀氀猀 愀爀攀 猀攀渀琀 攀瘀攀爀礀 礀攀愀爀Ⰰ 愀琀 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀攀渀猀攀ഊof the government, to the special school in Tschernigow, ਀昀漀甀渀搀攀搀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀Ⰰ 椀渀 ㄀㠀㈀㠀⸀ഊ ਀匀攀攀 愀氀猀漀ഊCommentaries on the Productive Forces of Russia ਀䈀礀 䰀甀搀眀椀欀 吀攀㬀最漀戀漀爀猀欀椀ഊPublished by Longman, Brown, Green and Longmans, 1855 ਀伀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀猀椀琀礀 漀昀 䴀椀挀栀椀最愀渀ഊDigitized Aug 4, 2006 ਀ഊSo here we have honey being used instead of sugar during Lent in the 19th century; perhaps this is just the Eastern Orthodox Church. An Egg At Easter mentions that prior to the Revolution, the Russians ate only vegetables, honey, fruit, and bread during Lent. The Domostroi also indicates that they ate honey during Lent. ਀ഊJohnnae ਀ഊ ਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䄀甀最 ㈀　　㠀 　㤀㨀　㤀㨀　㔀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Elaine Koogler" ਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀漀爀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀 䤀渀昀漀⸀⸀⸀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" ਀ഊAre you familiar with this site? ਀ഊVirtual Russian Museum: http://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/russia.html ਀ഊKiri ਀ഊ ਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䌀漀戀氀愀椀琀栀 䴀甀椀洀渀攀挀栀 㰀䌀漀戀氀愀椀琀栀 愀琀 猀戀挀最氀漀戀愀氀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊDate: November 23, 2009 3:44:01 PM CST ਀吀漀㨀 䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 䈀爀礀渀 䜀眀氀愀搀 㰀戀爀礀渀ⴀ最眀氀愀搀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: [Bryn-gwlad] period Russian leather ਀ഊI know there are a few people with Russian personae in the barony, and thought they might be interested in the photos of shoes, pouches, sheaths, cases, and masks from 10th- to 15th-century Novgorod at . Some of them show very interesting decoration, and could be used as the basis for striking accessories for wear at events. ਀ഊCoblaith Muimnech ਀ഊ ਀䔀搀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀欀 匀⸀ 䠀愀爀爀椀猀ऀ刀甀猀猀椀愀ⴀ洀猀最ऀ倀愀最攀 ㌀㈀ 漀昀 ㌀㈀ഊ ਊ