Picts-msg - 11/4/96 Info. on the Picts. Name sources. NOTE: See also the files: tattoos-msg, woad-msg, Celts-msg, Scotland-msg, Ireland-msg, Gaul-art, Roman-Wales-bib, Wales-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Those colorful picts Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:32:47 GMT Organization: Penn State University In attempting to learn about woad I discover some interesting items that have led me (for now) to believe that the Picts (not Celts) were tatooed not painted. I found that the "painted with woad" idea comes from Julius Caesar's description of the Briton's and that most other description refer specifically to tatoos, recent archaelogical evidence suppports that tatooing was a very ancient (late stone age) custom. It is possible that both painting and tatooing were present but the evidence currently is in favor of tatooing. The following excerpt clarify: From: "the Problem of the Picts" F.T. Wainwright Is the name Picti no more than the Roman's descriptive term for a painted people ? Or does it represent a Latinized version of a native name, perhaps the Pict's own name for themselves ? Isidore of Seville, writing soon after A.D. 600 tells us that the Picts take their name from the fact that their bodies bear designs pricked into their skin by needles. There was a tradition, over six hundred years old, that the inhabitants of Britain specialized in the practice of applying pigments to their skins. Julius Caesar had written " All the Britanni paint themselves with woad which produces a bluish colouring." And after Caesar there is no break in the series of writers - Ovid, Martial, Solinus, Herodian, Claudian, Jordans - who mention this colourful practice. It may be significant that the later writers refer specifically to tatooing, puncturing as distinct from painting, and that they refer to the inhabitants of the northern parts of Britain. From: "The Picts" Isabel Henderson Classical writers were struck by their habit of personal tatooing. There is also the older name of Priteni to consider. It means "people of the designs" and presumably refers to tatooing or painting, a habit aquired from an older population. Archeological Find: In Sept. 1991 a very well preserved body was discovered in the Alps near the Austrian-Italian border. This 5,000 year old body had tatoos of stripes nd a cross on his body. This is solid evidence that tatooing was practiced in Europe in 3000 B.C. It may also lend credibility to the practice of tatooing in Britania as early (or late) as 400 A.D. -Frettchen von Rheinpfalz- From: limbo7 at aol.com (Limbo7) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Those colorful picts Date: 17 Apr 1994 23:52:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) To add to what you have written about the Picts allow me to throw in a few tidbits. In Ireland they were called the Cruthni by the Gaels. Their culture was basically overwhelmend and absorbed by the Gael. But there are some interesting bits that one can find. Cuchullain before he was given that name was known as Setanta "He who knows the way". Setanta was the eponymous here of the Setantii who resided near Teamhair (Tara). The name Tristan is believed to have originally come from the name of a Pict named Drust. There are early versions of the Tristan story in which he is named Drystan and Drustan. So they did indeed leave behind an impact on the Celtic world among others. From: dnb105 at psu.edu (Ferret) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Those colorful picts Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 06:18:23 GMT Organization: Penn State University In article <2ot055$t8l at search01.news.aol.com> limbo7 at aol.com (Limbo7) writes: >To add to what you have written about the Picts allow me to throw in a few >tidbits. In Ireland they were called the Cruthni by the Gaels. Their culture >was basically overwhelmend and absorbed by the Gael. But there are some >interesting bits that one can find. Cuchullain before he was given that name >was known as Setanta "He who knows the way". Setanta was the eponymous here of >the Setantii who resided near Teamhair (Tara). The name Tristan is believed to >have originally come from the name of a Pict named Drust. There are early >versions of the Tristan story in which he is named Drystan and Drustan. So they >did indeed leave behind an impact on the Celtic world among others. The earliest Roman records refer to the PRITANI which may have later become BRITANI or Britons as we would say. The later term PICTI refers to the northern part of the island, where as PRITANI seems to refer to all the inhabitants. Ceasar's remark implies that ALL the inhabitants were decorated but he is in the minority refering to the decorations as "painted with woad" and his comment is suspect as second hand and his information jumbled. The Romans do not seem to make tribal distinctions. Also note that the Romans were aware of the Celts via their own and Greek writings (KELTOI) yet DO NOT apply the terms to the inhabitants of the British Isles. This would indicate that the difference between Continental and British "Celts" was so great that no comparison was made. This would put the cultural division of the Island Celts at earlier than 400 A.D. Unfortunately I have yet to obtain the descriptions in the original Latin. -Frettchen von Rheinpfalz- From: Scott White <swhite at onr.com> To: Mark Harris Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:55:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Names, Meanings, and th Hey Stefan: Saw your recent posting regarding lists of names on the Rialto. Here's a reference on Pictish names that was written by the heralds of Academy of St. Gabriel following my begging for Pictish naming resources. The URL is: http://www.itd.umich.edu/~ximenez/s.gabriel/docs/pictnames.html Gnith <swhite at onr.com> <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris Picts-msg Page 3 of 3