Paris-msg - 3/7/20

Medieval points of interest in and around Paris.

NOTE: See also the files: France-msg, Gaul-art, Germany-msg, Normans-msg, Low-Countries-msg, peasants-msg, London-Hist-art, London-msg, cities-msg, Europe-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian
Date: 18 Oct 93 20:48:56 GMT
Organization: RAND

dc238 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda A. McMullen) wrote:
> Aside from Notre Dame and the Musee de Cluny, does anyone have
> suggestions of things to see/places to go in the city or
> in the immediate area.
> that would be of particular interest of a member of the SCA.
> 
> Many thanks.
> Elspeth of Oxfordshire

The Sainte Chapelle is a must-see.  The Conciergerie is also worthwhile for a
short visit (since you get to see parts of the original fortress).  Also
worthwhile is a visit (or twelve) to the Louvre.  Aside from a dizzying amount
of original artwork and such goodies, they've excavated beneath the current
buildings to find the foundations of the original Louvre (yes, the one
depicted in the Duc du Berry's hours).  You are basically allowed to wander
about the moat and into a room or two that were left when the building was
torn down.  

Paris is full of period churches besides Notre Dame.  One is up on Monmartre,
near the 19th-century Sacre Coeur--I think it's St. Peter's or something.  
It's Romanesque, used to be part of a monastery.  And there's Saint Germain.
I've been inside two others that I can't recall the names of.  

There's also a museum that specializes in the history of the city itself,if
only I could recall its name (it's right on the tip of my tounge!!).  It
starts with Roman times and wanders on up; the collection, for example,
includes one
of the more famous portraits of Mary Queen of Scots (who was Queen of France
at the time).  It's within walking distance of the Place des Voges, and I
think it's the unnamed thing on the map I'm looking at, on Rue de Sevigne'.

Also, you might want to check out the Musee de la Armee, in Les Invalides. 
Lots of armor, swords, and the like.  
 
Also, some other important places are fairly close to Paris, like St.
Denys.

I wish I had access to the book I bought at the Louvre on medieval sites in
France.  You might check to see if there is an equivalent book in English
available here.

Philippa d'Ecosse


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance)
Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 22:50:27 GMT

Definitely budget _major_ time for the Louvre, especially now that the
renovations are mostly complete.  There are works now on display that
haven't been seen in public for decades.  Ignore the Mona Lisa; it's
insignificant compared to at least a dozen other paintings in the same
room, which also has the "Wedding at Cannae" completely covering one
end of the room.  (My wife spent a full 15 minutes examining the
costume details, especially the dwarf in slash and puff!, and we only
had about a half-day to see as much as we could.)

St. Denys is definately worth a vist.  Lots of good info on various
French kings that you don't get in the Anglo-centric histories.

Note that they moved all of the Renaissance stuff out of the Cluny to
a converted chateau in the Paris suburbs some years ago; we never got
out there, so I don't know exactly where it is.  Ask at the Cluny.
Possible day trips about the same distances as Chartres - Rheims,
Rouen, Orleans, Mont St. Michel, Amiens, Chateau Thierry.

If Claude de Montcastel is still lurking around the Rialto, perhaps he
can give you some more advice - he lives in Paris.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
(who got to sack Paris twice!)
--
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc307a at sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
      mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guyw at advtech.uswest.com (Guy Wells)
Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 22:20:41 GMT

The Musee de la Armee has already been touched on. It is fantastic. Make
sure you get to Vincennes (on the opposite side of the city from
Versailles). Much more medieval. 

As an aside, in preparation read The Distant Mirror, by Tuchman. A
number of the sites she mentions are still around, and those that aren't
can often be discerned from the modern structure while your there.

A wild place to hit is the Ministry of Education. It is housed in the
ORIGINAL buildings erected by Charles V, that use to be the Colleges of
Wales, Scotland, and Navarre. I will go back to my Paris maps to find
the streets. It is absolutely astounding. One neat side note, and
completely out of period, the 4 huge trees that look like gnarled
gigantic lilac bushes ARE bushes. They were planted by Napolean himself,
the French named them national monuments, and they cannot be cut down.
Makes for hell in the surround city blocks because the roots go out
horizontal instead of vertical since they are bushes and not trees.
Makes any excavation or building a real adventure.

If you have some time, get a rental
skate (two small to be called cars) for cheap, and head down to the
Loire Valley. Oh my gosh, it is incredible. You'll have everything from
8th century towers (of Charlemagne no less!) to late 17th century
chateaus (sp?). In 5 days, my lady and I hit around 35 castles, and most
of them had period "stuff" inside. Wow. Sentimental favorite: Chinon
where Henry II died (of England, well Norman actually), where Richard
the LionHearted set out for his crusades, where the Templer Knights were
imprisoned and burned...

Recognize, if you're from the wide open country, everything in France is
reachable.

Have fun! One other thing, the Michelin guides really do help, and they
publish one of the Loire Valley.

Jalut
-- 
Guy M. Wells <guyw at uswest.com>  Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no
U S WEST Advanced Technologies  one elses, and certainly not USWEST's!


From: Dowdle-HeadM at gacsrv.gactr.uga.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Paris for SCA people
Date: 22 Oct 1993 09:47:13 -0400

To Elspeth of Oxfordshire and anyone else interested:
"We're thinking of a day trip to Chartres: can anyone suggest
somewhere else?"

     I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to Chartres. It's a trip well worth
your time. There are several places in the Paris environs that I
recommend. One is the Cathedral of St. Denis. You can get there
on the Metro. Paris itself has a number of gothic buildings of
interest, including Notre Dame Cathedral and St. Chappelle; but
don't overlook some of the smaller places. We stumbled onto
several gems that way. 
     The other place I highly recommend is the Cluny Musuem, which
is near the Sorbonne. The Cluny Museum focuses on medieval art
and artifacts. There is a large collection of everyday items, including
furniture, fabric, game boards, tiles, etc., as well as statuary,
jewelry, and the other things one might expect. There is a well-known 
set of late 15th c. tapestries there on the Lady and the Unicorn.
The Cluny is also built on the site of a Roman bath. Part of the
bath area was open for visitors when we were there in 1989,
part of it was still under excavation. 
 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nachison at scsud.ctstateu.edu (Nachison,Beth)
Subject: Re: Paris for SCA people
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 05:18:00 GMT

Dowdle-HeadM at gacsrv.gactr.uga.EDU writes...
>To Elspeth of Oxfordshire and anyone else interested: 
>"We're thinking of a day trip to Chartres: can anyone suggest
>somewhere else?"
> 
>     I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to Chartres. It's a trip well worth
>your time. There are several places in the Paris environs that I
>recommend. One is the Cathedral of St. Denis. You can get there
>on the Metro. Paris itself has a number of gothic buildings of
>interest, including Notre Dame Cathedral and St. Chappelle; but
>don't overlook some of the smaller places. We stumbled onto
>several gems that way. 

The Michelin Green Guide will point out most of the period
highlights of Paris. The neighborhood around St. Severin (on
the Left Bank, between Blvd. St. Michel & the Rue St. Jacques)
not only has many evocative little streets, but some of the
best cheap food in the city, & frequently street entertainment
in nice weather.

Another good day trip is to Dijon, about 1 1/2 hours away by TGV.
There's a nicely restored medieval section, several very good Gothic
churches (one with a facade COVERED with gargoyles and a famous
clock, le Jacquemart, another now the Cathedral but originally an
abbey church, with a 10c crypt), an interesting archeological
museum next to the cathedral, and an excellent art museum, housed
in the old Palace of the Dukes of Burgundy, which includes a lot of
fine medieval art, and the carved tombs of the dukes by (I believe)
Claus Sluter which are masterpieces of 15c sculpture & feature
a procession of mourners carved in full relief around the bases.
The dukes' kitchen is sometimes open to the public: fireplaces
big enough to roast whole oxen. (And for people interested in
16c garb: there's a carved woman in one of the museum rooms who
can show what the BACK of those dresses looked like, and where the
seams go!)

St. Denis, of course, has to be on any SCAdian's Paris itinerary.
It's a great church, early Gothic, filled with the tombs of the
kings of France (though, alas, not their bodies, since the Revolution).
The town of St. Denis is pretty grim and grimy--an industrial
suburb, nuff said--but it's right on the Metro and the church is
right across the street from the stop.

One of my favorite places in the Paris region is Chantilly, about
20 miles north--a gorgeous chateau, some 16c but mostly 19c pseudo-
Renaissance (the real thing was torn down in the Revolution). It
houses the Muse'e Conde', an art-collection mostly assembled in the
19c which includes some astonishing works--the Tres Belles Heures of
the Duc de Berri, a whole room of miniatures by Jean Fouquet, many
portraits by Clouet & his school, a tiny but stunning Three Graces
by (I believe) Rafael, and lots, lots more. The grounds are by
Le Notre, 17c formal, and the stables are 18c and amazing--they look
like another chateau themselves, & contain the Museum of the Living
Horse, which has live demonstrations on a regular schedule. 

    Beth
    Estrildis ferch Rhys
    nachison at scsu.ctstateu.edu 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance)
Subject: Re: Paris for SCA people
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:10:07 GMT

Kvedjur fra Mikjal!

After talking with my mom and my wife this weekend, 3 additional
points came up.

1) Take lots of low-light/high-speed film.  Most of the musuems and
many of the churches don't allow flash photography.  Most will let you
take photos; you just can't use a flash.

2) When in doubt, take a photo.  We were very disappointed to find
that the museum catalogs often didn't have color pictures (or any
pictures) of the items that we really wanted pictures of.

3) Take a notebook.  Record exactly what the item was, where you found
it, and what the dates are.  Remember, this is _primary_
documentation.

Something to fuel debate amongst the costuming Laurels:  There's a
shirt in the Treasury museum of Notre Dame that has flat-felled seams.
I don't remember the exact date given but it is definitely pre-15th
century.  Watch for it.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
--
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc307a at sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
      mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu


From: WOLC4977 at splava.cc.PLattsburgh.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA trips to France
Date: 25 Oct 1993 16:36:30 -0400
Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA

        If you REALLY want to get the best view of europe in the Middle Ages,
take a trip to Mont Ste. Michel AND STAY OVERNIGHT.
       It is not tremendously expensive - quite reasonable actually; and
Les Restaurants sont tres magnifique!
       I have lived in Europe on several occaisions, and this is one of my
favorite spots - ESPECIALLY after the DAYTRIPERS GO HOME!!!
       It is a unique and wonderfull insight into life in and around a 
religious communitty in the middle ages.

                                   Your Humble Servant,
                                       Robert of Norwood


From: sumner at bu.edu (Charles Sumner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian
Date: 31 Oct 1993 20:53:09 GMT
Organization: Emerald City Productions

A really unusual museum for SCAdians to visit in Paris is the Musee de la
Chasse et de la Nature (The Museum of Chase and Nature) it's a museum 
dedicated to hunting and among other things it has a unique weapons 
collection going back to the middle ages.  As opposed to military weapons
though, this collection is purely hunting weapons which are quite
different.  Be warned though that the museum also has a large collection
of stuffed trophies (read: dead animals).
--
Charles Sumner			"One thing that makes me believe in UFOs is,
Emerald City Productions		sometimes I lose stuff."
sumner at acs.bu.edu					- Jack Handy


From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tapestries
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 17:46:30 GMT
Organization: RAND

brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams) wrote:
>My lord husband caught a little news program blurb somewhere in the
>depths of CNN around 5 AM one morning-- the Gobelin tapestry works is
>very much still in existence doing restoration, recreation and original
>tapestries as they've done for a long time.
>
>A largish tapestry from the Works is the price of a modest sized house
>in An Tir.
>
Yes, but you cannot buy them.  The factory belongs to the
French government, and its products are normally intended to
go in government buildings or are given as very special
gifts.  When I was there in 1993, they were working on a
commission, though--from another European country as a tribute
to its queen (if memory serves--and it wasn't England, either).

It's a neat place to visit, whenever you're in Paris (you may 
have to make arrangements to join an English-speaking tour group, 
though).  The facility houses both the Gobelin (tapestry) and 
Savonnerie (carpet) works.  The tapestry looms are enormous,
as are the resulting tapestries--and I gather it takes several
years to produce just one (memory fails on exact estimates).

Neither the factory nor any of its products, alas, is period,
but the "innards" look like at least one period drawing I've
seen (don't ask for a source--you all know my memory and my
library by now!).
******************************************
SCA:  Lady Philippa de Ecosse, Lyondemere, Caid  
mka:  Phyllis Gilmore, Santa Monica and Torrance, CA


Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:39:57 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Holidays

hey all from Anne-Marie
on my recent trip to Paris, I went to the Cluny (duh :)), the medieval
museum. Its near the Sorbonne and the Pantheon.

they had a fair selection of medieval and medievaloide cookbooks, as well
as tons of books on medieval gardens. I picked up a translation of le
Menagier de Paris for CHEAP! ok, they're all in french,but hey! :)

have fun...
- --AM


Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 21:07:37 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paris

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 7:05 PM, tudorpot tudorpot <tudorpot at gmail.com>wrote:
<<< SCA food related. I'll be in Paris for a week at the end of April. Any
suggestions re shopping, sites.

Theadora >>>

We were there last spring.  We had reservations to Spring - a small
restaurant right near the Louvre (they moved - the restaurant used to sit
16 and now it serves 26 with a bar in the basement)  The meal is whatever
is fresh in the market that day.  Reservations are hard to come by and it
ain't cheap but it was a wonderful meal and we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

We didn't have a bad meal anywhere.  Enjoy yourself.

-S


Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 23:44:48 -0700
From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paris

There used to be, and probably still is, a store in Paris that's the original that Sur La Table and Williams Sonoma are imitations of--it's where I got the two handed stirring paddles that are hanging on my kitchen wall, and some other things. Unfortunately I've forgotten its name, but I expect you can locate it in tourist guides.

David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:19:44 +0000
From: "Sandra J. Kisner" <sjk3 at cornell.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paris

You might also check out http://www.davidlebovitz.com/; he lives there now and has links down the right side of the page, including a section on Paris with links to everything from pastry shops and food markets to travel tips.

Sandra


Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 15:23:38 +0200
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paris

You must be a bit more precise :) Paris has plenty of food stores,
depending from what you want.

The best teashop in Europe is in Paris, Mariage Freres, in the Marais
district. Incredible amount of teas and a tea salong where you can taste
the teast they sell with incredible gateaux!

If you want to see the most exclusive food you must go to La Madeleine and
visit Fouquet and Fauchon, the biggest and most expensive "traiteurs" in
town. Not cheap but a grand spectacle.

If you want to buy the best charcuteries (ham, sausages, etc) you must go
to rue Mauffetard and their market, they have fresh cheeses and meat and
specialities from all the regions of France. They have goose and foie gras
from Auvergne, the best place to raise ducks and geese.

If you want to buy Vietnamise or Chinese specialities you should go to
Belleville, take the subway and you are going to think you are in Hong Kong
or Hanoi.

For Scandinavian food you should go to the food departament in a big store,
Le Bon March or to Lafayette Gourmet.

Ana


Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 17:26:10 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Paris

Mariage Freres have more than one store.  the one in the Marais is great.
We had tea there (read: lunch) - such fun but the stairs upstairs are
sketchy - be careful.  There was also a store right near my sister-in-law a
couple blocks from the Arc de Triomphe.  My favorite blend is the Wedding
Imperial.


Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:27:07 +0000
From: "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>,
	"atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
	<atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] New Book on Medieval Paris

Just received at the UVA Fine Arts Library: La demeure m?di?vale ? Paris  (ISBN 9782757205877; our call # NA1050 .D46 2012). This new work is an exhibition catalog featuring buildings, monasteries, castles, townhouses, etc. in maps, drawings and paintings from medieval Paris. So you can't read French (mine is pretty awful)? You can still look at the pictures, and what glorious pictures they are! There are dozens of views from medieval illuminations, all in vivid colors, plus drawings and engravings from later periods of early structures, with modern photos of surviving medieval buildings mixed in. Care to see the real Nicolas Flamel's house and shop (you remember him from Harry Potter)? It's here on pages 135-137, and there's so much more. The book is a treasure trove of rarely seen city scenes. The illuminations are especially . . . well, illuminating, being filled with figures in period costumes in the colors of the time. This is a book any late-period Scadian would love, whether your persona is French or not.

Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir's Unofficial Librarian

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	Paris-msg	Page 9 of 9