Paris-msg - 5/1/01 Medieval points of interest in and around Paris. NOTE: See also the files: France-msg, Gaul-art, Germany-msg, Normans-msg, Low-Countries-msg, peasants-msg, Spain-msg, cities-msg, Europe-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian Date: 18 Oct 93 20:48:56 GMT Organization: RAND dc238 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda A. McMullen) wrote: > Aside from Notre Dame and the Musee de Cluny, does anyone have > suggestions of things to see/places to go in the city or > in the immediate area. > that would be of particular interest of a member of the SCA. > > Many thanks. > Elspeth of Oxfordshire The Sainte Chapelle is a must-see. The Conciergerie is also worthwhile for a short visit (since you get to see parts of the original fortress). Also worthwhile is a visit (or twelve) to the Louvre. Aside from a dizzying amount of original artwork and such goodies, they've excavated beneath the current buildings to find the foundations of the original Louvre (yes, the one depicted in the Duc du Berry's hours). You are basically allowed to wander about the moat and into a room or two that were left when the building was torn down. Paris is full of period churches besides Notre Dame. One is up on Monmartre, near the 19th-century Sacre Coeur--I think it's St. Peter's or something. It's Romanesque, used to be part of a monastery. And there's Saint Germain. I've been inside two others that I can't recall the names of. There's also a museum that specializes in the history of the city itself,if only I could recall its name (it's right on the tip of my tounge!!). It starts with Roman times and wanders on up; the collection, for example, includes one of the more famous portraits of Mary Queen of Scots (who was Queen of France at the time). It's within walking distance of the Place des Voges, and I think it's the unnamed thing on the map I'm looking at, on Rue de Sevigne'. Also, you might want to check out the Musee de la Armee, in Les Invalides. Lots of armor, swords, and the like. Also, some other important places are fairly close to Paris, like St. Denys. I wish I had access to the book I bought at the Louvre on medieval sites in France. You might check to see if there is an equivalent book in English available here. Philippa d'Ecosse Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 22:50:27 GMT Definitely budget _major_ time for the Louvre, especially now that the renovations are mostly complete. There are works now on display that haven't been seen in public for decades. Ignore the Mona Lisa; it's insignificant compared to at least a dozen other paintings in the same room, which also has the "Wedding at Cannae" completely covering one end of the room. (My wife spent a full 15 minutes examining the costume details, especially the dwarf in slash and puff!, and we only had about a half-day to see as much as we could.) St. Denys is definately worth a vist. Lots of good info on various French kings that you don't get in the Anglo-centric histories. Note that they moved all of the Renaissance stuff out of the Cluny to a converted chateau in the Paris suburbs some years ago; we never got out there, so I don't know exactly where it is. Ask at the Cluny. Possible day trips about the same distances as Chartres - Rheims, Rouen, Orleans, Mont St. Michel, Amiens, Chateau Thierry. If Claude de Montcastel is still lurking around the Rialto, perhaps he can give you some more advice - he lives in Paris. Mikjal Annarbjorn (who got to sack Paris twice!) -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a at sw1sta.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: guyw at advtech.uswest.com (Guy Wells) Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 22:20:41 GMT The Musee de la Armee has already been touched on. It is fantastic. Make sure you get to Vincennes (on the opposite side of the city from Versailles). Much more medieval. As an aside, in preparation read The Distant Mirror, by Tuchman. A number of the sites she mentions are still around, and those that aren't can often be discerned from the modern structure while your there. A wild place to hit is the Ministry of Education. It is housed in the ORIGINAL buildings erected by Charles V, that use to be the Colleges of Wales, Scotland, and Navarre. I will go back to my Paris maps to find the streets. It is absolutely astounding. One neat side note, and completely out of period, the 4 huge trees that look like gnarled gigantic lilac bushes ARE bushes. They were planted by Napolean himself, the French named them national monuments, and they cannot be cut down. Makes for hell in the surround city blocks because the roots go out horizontal instead of vertical since they are bushes and not trees. Makes any excavation or building a real adventure. If you have some time, get a rental skate (two small to be called cars) for cheap, and head down to the Loire Valley. Oh my gosh, it is incredible. You'll have everything from 8th century towers (of Charlemagne no less!) to late 17th century chateaus (sp?). In 5 days, my lady and I hit around 35 castles, and most of them had period "stuff" inside. Wow. Sentimental favorite: Chinon where Henry II died (of England, well Norman actually), where Richard the LionHearted set out for his crusades, where the Templer Knights were imprisoned and burned... Recognize, if you're from the wide open country, everything in France is reachable. Have fun! One other thing, the Michelin guides really do help, and they publish one of the Loire Valley. Jalut -- Guy M. Wells <guyw at uswest.com> Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no U S WEST Advanced Technologies one elses, and certainly not USWEST's! From: Dowdle-HeadM at gacsrv.gactr.uga.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Paris for SCA people Date: 22 Oct 1993 09:47:13 -0400 To Elspeth of Oxfordshire and anyone else interested: "We're thinking of a day trip to Chartres: can anyone suggest somewhere else?" I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to Chartres. It's a trip well worth your time. There are several places in the Paris environs that I recommend. One is the Cathedral of St. Denis. You can get there on the Metro. Paris itself has a number of gothic buildings of interest, including Notre Dame Cathedral and St. Chappelle; but don't overlook some of the smaller places. We stumbled onto several gems that way. The other place I highly recommend is the Cluny Musuem, which is near the Sorbonne. The Cluny Museum focuses on medieval art and artifacts. There is a large collection of everyday items, including furniture, fabric, game boards, tiles, etc., as well as statuary, jewelry, and the other things one might expect. There is a well-known set of late 15th c. tapestries there on the Lady and the Unicorn. The Cluny is also built on the site of a Roman bath. Part of the bath area was open for visitors when we were there in 1989, part of it was still under excavation. Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: nachison at scsud.ctstateu.edu (Nachison,Beth) Subject: Re: Paris for SCA people Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 05:18:00 GMT Dowdle-HeadM at gacsrv.gactr.uga.EDU writes... >To Elspeth of Oxfordshire and anyone else interested: >"We're thinking of a day trip to Chartres: can anyone suggest >somewhere else?" > > I thoroughly enjoyed our visit to Chartres. It's a trip well worth >your time. There are several places in the Paris environs that I >recommend. One is the Cathedral of St. Denis. You can get there >on the Metro. Paris itself has a number of gothic buildings of >interest, including Notre Dame Cathedral and St. Chappelle; but >don't overlook some of the smaller places. We stumbled onto >several gems that way. The Michelin Green Guide will point out most of the period highlights of Paris. The neighborhood around St. Severin (on the Left Bank, between Blvd. St. Michel & the Rue St. Jacques) not only has many evocative little streets, but some of the best cheap food in the city, & frequently street entertainment in nice weather. Another good day trip is to Dijon, about 1 1/2 hours away by TGV. There's a nicely restored medieval section, several very good Gothic churches (one with a facade COVERED with gargoyles and a famous clock, le Jacquemart, another now the Cathedral but originally an abbey church, with a 10c crypt), an interesting archeological museum next to the cathedral, and an excellent art museum, housed in the old Palace of the Dukes of Burgundy, which includes a lot of fine medieval art, and the carved tombs of the dukes by (I believe) Claus Sluter which are masterpieces of 15c sculpture & feature a procession of mourners carved in full relief around the bases. The dukes' kitchen is sometimes open to the public: fireplaces big enough to roast whole oxen. (And for people interested in 16c garb: there's a carved woman in one of the museum rooms who can show what the BACK of those dresses looked like, and where the seams go!) St. Denis, of course, has to be on any SCAdian's Paris itinerary. It's a great church, early Gothic, filled with the tombs of the kings of France (though, alas, not their bodies, since the Revolution). The town of St. Denis is pretty grim and grimy--an industrial suburb, nuff said--but it's right on the Metro and the church is right across the street from the stop. One of my favorite places in the Paris region is Chantilly, about 20 miles north--a gorgeous chateau, some 16c but mostly 19c pseudo- Renaissance (the real thing was torn down in the Revolution). It houses the Muse'e Conde', an art-collection mostly assembled in the 19c which includes some astonishing works--the Tres Belles Heures of the Duc de Berri, a whole room of miniatures by Jean Fouquet, many portraits by Clouet & his school, a tiny but stunning Three Graces by (I believe) Rafael, and lots, lots more. The grounds are by Le Notre, 17c formal, and the stables are 18c and amazing--they look like another chateau themselves, & contain the Museum of the Living Horse, which has live demonstrations on a regular schedule. Beth Estrildis ferch Rhys nachison at scsu.ctstateu.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) Subject: Re: Paris for SCA people Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:10:07 GMT Kvedjur fra Mikjal! After talking with my mom and my wife this weekend, 3 additional points came up. 1) Take lots of low-light/high-speed film. Most of the musuems and many of the churches don't allow flash photography. Most will let you take photos; you just can't use a flash. 2) When in doubt, take a photo. We were very disappointed to find that the museum catalogs often didn't have color pictures (or any pictures) of the items that we really wanted pictures of. 3) Take a notebook. Record exactly what the item was, where you found it, and what the dates are. Remember, this is _primary_ documentation. Something to fuel debate amongst the costuming Laurels: There's a shirt in the Treasury museum of Notre Dame that has flat-felled seams. I don't remember the exact date given but it is definitely pre-15th century. Watch for it. Mikjal Annarbjorn -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a at sw1sta.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: ab899 at freenet.hsc.colorado.edu mchance at nyx.cs.du.edu From: WOLC4977 at splava.cc.PLattsburgh.EDU Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: SCA trips to France Date: 25 Oct 1993 16:36:30 -0400 Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA If you REALLY want to get the best view of europe in the Middle Ages, take a trip to Mont Ste. Michel AND STAY OVERNIGHT. It is not tremendously expensive - quite reasonable actually; and Les Restaurants sont tres magnifique! I have lived in Europe on several occaisions, and this is one of my favorite spots - ESPECIALLY after the DAYTRIPERS GO HOME!!! It is a unique and wonderfull insight into life in and around a religious communitty in the middle ages. Your Humble Servant, Robert of Norwood From: sumner at bu.edu (Charles Sumner) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Paris for a SCAian Date: 31 Oct 1993 20:53:09 GMT Organization: Emerald City Productions A really unusual museum for SCAdians to visit in Paris is the Musee de la Chasse et de la Nature (The Museum of Chase and Nature) it's a museum dedicated to hunting and among other things it has a unique weapons collection going back to the middle ages. As opposed to military weapons though, this collection is purely hunting weapons which are quite different. Be warned though that the museum also has a large collection of stuffed trophies (read: dead animals). -- Charles Sumner "One thing that makes me believe in UFOs is, Emerald City Productions sometimes I lose stuff." sumner at acs.bu.edu - Jack Handy From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Tapestries Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 17:46:30 GMT Organization: RAND brettwi at ix.netcom.com(Brett Williams) wrote: >My lord husband caught a little news program blurb somewhere in the >depths of CNN around 5 AM one morning-- the Gobelin tapestry works is >very much still in existence doing restoration, recreation and original >tapestries as they've done for a long time. > >A largish tapestry from the Works is the price of a modest sized house >in An Tir. > Yes, but you cannot buy them. The factory belongs to the French government, and its products are normally intended to go in government buildings or are given as very special gifts. When I was there in 1993, they were working on a commission, though--from another European country as a tribute to its queen (if memory serves--and it wasn't England, either). It's a neat place to visit, whenever you're in Paris (you may have to make arrangements to join an English-speaking tour group, though). The facility houses both the Gobelin (tapestry) and Savonnerie (carpet) works. The tapestry looms are enormous, as are the resulting tapestries--and I gather it takes several years to produce just one (memory fails on exact estimates). Neither the factory nor any of its products, alas, is period, but the "innards" look like at least one period drawing I've seen (don't ask for a source--you all know my memory and my library by now!). ****************************************** SCA: Lady Philippa de Ecosse, Lyondemere, Caid mka: Phyllis Gilmore, Santa Monica and Torrance, CA Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:39:57 -0800 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Holidays hey all from Anne-Marie on my recent trip to Paris, I went to the Cluny (duh :)), the medieval museum. Its near the Sorbonne and the Pantheon. they had a fair selection of medieval and medievaloide cookbooks, as well as tons of books on medieval gardens. I picked up a translation of le Menagier de Paris for CHEAP! ok, they're all in french,but hey! :) have fun... - --AM <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris Paris-msg Page 7 of 7