London-msg - 7/24/11

Medieval points of interest in and around London.

NOTE: See also the files: England-msg, Scotland-msg, Ireland-msg, Paris-msg, Cornwall-msg, Leicester-art, Normans-msg, Saxon-England-lnks, Wales-msg.

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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: virginia.l.beatty at daytonoh.ncr.com (Virginia Beatty)
Subject: RE:going to london
Keywords: london, shopping, costumes, sca
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 16:52:49 GMT

You lucky person you! By all means, visit the Museums! Especially the British 
Museum, which has an _extensive_ textile display (get permission to 
photograph), costume exhibit, and some real spiff tapestries. I spend about 
90 pounds just in the bookstore.

My laurel and I were in England for two weeks in May. We shopped well!
 
Buy books, if you can. Another idea is to buy postcards of the paintings and 
tapestries. That way, you have a scrapbook of ideas for costumes, armor and 
accessories.
Have fun!
Gwyneth Banfhidhleir, OH/KY MoA, Midrealm
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: afk at tdat.ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM (Art Kaufmann)
Subject: Re:going to london
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 13:56:23 PST

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: afk at ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM (Art Kaufmann)
Organization: NCR/Teradata

In article 000BE1B9 at daytonoh.ncr.com, virginia.l.beatty at daytonoh.ncr.com (Virginia Beatty) writes:
>You lucky person you! By all means, visit the Museums! Especially the British 
>Museum, which has an _extensive_ textile display (get permission to 
>photograph), costume exhibit, and some real spiff tapestries. I spend about 
>90 pounds just in the bookstore.
>
>My laurel and I were in England for two weeks in May. We shopped well!
> 
>Buy books, if you can. Another idea is to buy postcards of the paintings and 
>tapestries. That way, you have a scrapbook of ideas for costumes, armor and 
>accessories.
>Have fun!
>Gwyneth Banfhidhleir, OH/KY MoA, Midrealm
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>| Virginia Beatty Corporate Customer Services, NCR SDC-2 Dayton |
>|   NCR:  622-4832    <virginia.l.beatty at DaytonOH.NCR.COM>      |
>|   (513) 445-4832 <ncrcom!whq-top!vlb>                         |
>|   FAX: 445-xxxx                                               |
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
Further suggestions:
  Go to Oxford and visit Blackwells, possibly the best bookstore in the
country.  The last time I was there, someone came back with 90 lbs (as in
weight, are you listening Goldwyn?) of books, mainly from there.  Oxford is
a day trip by train from London.

  Also: The National Portrait Gallery in London as well as the outpost in
Montacute House. The NPG will do photographic reprints of most of the
paintings, even if they aren't on postcards, but this isn't cheap; my wife
got a reprint of the portrait of Robert Walker and it cost about $60US.

---
Colin Graham                   | Art Kaufmann
Caid                           | afk at ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM


From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE:going to london
Date: 7 Dec 1993 04:33:22 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School

1. The British Museum has most of the world's best Anglo-Saxon jewelry,
which is to say the world's best jewelry. They are good, kind, civilized
people who let you take pictures.

2. The Victoria and Albert Museum does not permit cameras in their jewelry
room. If you have nothing else to do you might stop by to look at armor and
other odds and ends--but they don't have much in the way of Anglo-Saxon
jewelry. There are some pretty spiffy Mughal archer's rings though--first
floor, go in a bit and turn left.

3. The Wallace Collection has a lot of armor, and sells a catalog with
sizes and weights of weapons in it.

4. The Museum of London has lots of "daily living" (as opposed to "royal
stuff") things in it. It also has the Cheapside Hoard, which is one
impressive collection of late sixteenth century jewelry, for them as like
late sixteenth century jewelry. It includes what I think is the only period
opal I have seen. Also the Museum of London has produced some wonderful
books and you can buy them there.

5. London antique markets are fun. Portobello Road is the big, well known,
all day long one. There are several others, early morning of particular
days--you will have to look in a guide book to find when and where they
currently are. The early morning ones are likely to be less expensive, and
possibly more interesting.

6. If you can't find something, stand on a streetcorner with a map open.
Someone will help. (My wife's suggestion).

7. Somewhere outside of London is the Open Air Museum--a bunch of old
buildings taken apart when they were in the way of a highway or something
and reassembled on one site. I forget where. 

8. There is a restaurant that serves very good English food, but it is in
York. It is called The Pines. In London you can get good Indian, Chinese,
Italian, ...    .

9. All the above is from visits a good many years ago, so may be
misremembered, obsolete, etc.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu


From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: going to london
Date: 7 Dec 1993 12:40:39 -0500
Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto

When going to London beware of stepping into the British Library (it
used to be attached to the British Museum but was preparing to move to
its own location when last I was there. I don't know if the move has
been completed yet). You will only be able to leave with great difficulty.

Of all of the Great Libraries I have visited it is by far the best
with regards to collection of manuscripts and accessibility to view.

There they were: Lindisfarne Gospels (unique), Beowulf manuscript
(unique), Sir Gawain and the Green Knight manuscript (unique) and so
on and so on and so on (the list would take pages all displayed in the
public viewing room. Bravo!

Compare this, for example, to the New York Public Library where when I
went to ask what sort of documentation I would need to provide (letter
from professor, etc.) to get a chance to view one of their manuscripts
I was basically told not to even bother trying (admittedly it was a
VERY PRETTY manuscript, but then again, so is the Lindisfarne Gospels).

When I was in London I visited the British Library every day.
Practically worth the airfare for that alone.

David Tallan (NOT Cheryl, I just post from her account)
sometimes known as Thomas Grozier
my account: tallan at flis.utoronto


From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: going to London
Date: 7 Dec 93 13:30:26 -0500
Organization: Laurentian University

Good day, good gentles of the Rialto, from Ancarett Nankivellis.

Many kind folk have posted worthwhile suggestions on going 
to London--things to do, see and explore.  I would add a 
few further helpful hints and ideas.

First--see if you can get into the newsgroup soc.culture.british--
there's almost always a thread going on about travel to London 
and environs.

Second--if you want to travel much in London, bring some 
recent passport style photos and get a travelcard--they're 
sold for one or two week periods, monthly, etc.  That way 
you can stay out in the boonies of Hampstead Heath or 
wherever (cheap) and still get into town.  Travelcards 
are available at any tube station (avoid rush hour, though-- 
they'll take a while to fill in the forms).

Three--the British Library is still in the British Museum and 
so are all its lovely display mss.  But don't get it wrong--
you only get to see what is on display (which is a lot of 
cool stuff, admittedly) but only certified readers (with 
letters of reference and the aforementioned passport photos) 
get access to those not on display.  (Evil grin!)

I've spent several summers bumming around London, its libraries 
and museums--I'll answer any queries I can from that perspective.

Ancarett Nankivellis (who's only been to London once)
Janice Liedl (who lives for the BL and the PRO)
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes at silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: going to london
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 22:48:34 GMT

In article <DDF2-061293232210 at cu-dialup-0113.cit.cornell.edu> DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) writes:
>1. The British Museum has most of the world's best Anglo-Saxon jewelry,
>which is to say the world's best jewelry. They are good, kind, civilized
>people who let you take pictures.
>
	They also have scads of other good stuff. Spend at least 2 days there.
 
>2. The Victoria and Albert Museum does not permit cameras in their jewelry
>room. If you have nothing else to do you might stop by to look at armor and
>other odds and ends--but they don't have much in the way of Anglo-Saxon
>jewelry. There are some pretty spiffy Mughal archer's rings though--first
>floor, go in a bit and turn left.

	On the upper floors of the V&A there is a tremendous collection
of period textiles displayed in a manner that allows you to get close
and LOOK at them. They have everything from Coptic to 18th c. brocades.
Very nice, but use ASA 1000 film to get them. I didn't. *Sob* :'(. 
   
>4. The Museum of London has lots of "daily living" (as opposed to "royal
>stuff") things in it. It also has the Cheapside Hoard, which is one
>impressive collection of late sixteenth century jewelry, for them as like
>late sixteenth century jewelry. It includes what I think is the only period
>opal I have seen. Also the Museum of London has produced some wonderful
>books and you can buy them there.
>

	Yes. Museum of London is very good. It is also a cheapish source
for the Museum of London archeology books. 

	For food, don't eat English food, eat ethnic. One of the best
things the Raj ever did was to introduce curry to England. Try the beer
though. Very nice. 
	Lessee. Tower museum is good for armor. Skip the jewels, check
otu the heraldry museum (O.K. I'm biased). Expensive though. If you have
to see just one armor collection, go to the Wallace collection. Less
crowded, cheaper admission. 

	Check out Westminster Abbey (lots of good effigies, medieval
stuff)  and the Temple Church (good
effigies, including William Marshall's). Skip St. Pauls. Crowded and
OOP. 

		Lothar \|/
		        0


From: kreed at blackplague.gmu.edu (Kenneth Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: going to london
Date: 8 Dec 1993 06:49:24 GMT
Organization: The Gnomes of Zurich (shhh!)

London as of earlier this year, keeping in mind your original query was about costuming.

British Museum:  Much of the medieval and renaissance collection is closed for renovation, but this is still a lot to see.

Victoria and Albert:  Must see.  Metals collection closed for renovation in May and I have heard that the weapons and textiles closed this summer.  The tapestry room may still be open, and the costume collection probably is.  If you have time try the Royal Art library at the V&A.  Easier access than the British Libraryand they will let you take pictures from the books (natrual light but they have copy stands)

Wallace:  A fine collection, and the arms and armor is a very small part of it.  They also have several lectures each week, on all topics and free to the public.

Hampton Court Palace, Tate Collection, National Gallery and National Portrait Gallery:  Paintings, paintings and paintings.

Soane Museum:  An odd but wonderful little place on Lincoln's Inn Field.

Kennsington Plalce:  The Royal costume collection.  I have not seen it yet so I can't make a specific recomendation.

Books:

Zwemmers and Foyles, both on Charring Cross.  Allow a lot of time to wander this area.  There are also fabric and trim shops near here in Soho (try to contact the local SCA for recommendations)

You should still be able to get the Museum of London books from the Museum or at HMSO on the High Holborn.  If you see them, BUY THEM.  The Museum and the HMSO appear to be in a dispute and the publishing contract is ended.  If they don't make up or find a new publisher, there will be no more books out of the Museum of London.

Strong recommendation: Take a day trip to the Costume Museum at Bath.  I have not been there since they renovated and reopened, but I understand that they are still the best in Britian.  May be later period than you are looking for, but worth the trip.  Also the best place to get costume books.

Personal favorite:  Go to the London Bridge Tube station.  Go down High Street to the "George Inn" (c.1660) for lunch (eat downstairs, prices are better.)  Go back up High street to Southwark Cathedral.  Afterwards head west along bankside, down clink street on to where the Globe theater is being rebuilt.  Continue down Bankside to Blackfriars bridge.  Walk over the bridge and stop in Blackfriars pub for an afternoon drink.  Part of Bankside is run down but no need to worry.

Remember to stop at Pasttimes, across the street and down from Harrods on Brompton Road.

Enjoy.
Niall McKennett
AFPOPA


From: vader at meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: RE:going to london
Date: 8 Dec 93 14:07:41
Organization: Indiana Jones University

William here. David wrote:

>8. There is a restaurant that serves very good English food, but it is in
>York. It is called The Pines. In London you can get good Indian, Chinese,
>Italian, ...

There are good restaurants in London which serve not-so-exotic food.
Try Smolensky's on the Strand. Good steaks and a famous chocolate
mousse (they gave me a moose sticker, too...).

William


From: foster at starbase.neosoft.com (Paul A. Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tower of London
Date: 18 Jan 1996 19:42:44 GMT
Organization: Marathon Oil Company
 
: Is this for real? I was there less than a year ago and all was as it always 
: has been. I also don't recall reading anything there about moving the exhibit. 
: If anyone can verify this it would be most interesting to know. I must also 
: add that it would still be worth a visit just to see the architecture, but 
: alas, a lesser visit all round.
: Eddward

I was there in early November 95.  90% of the armory exhibit was gone.  
Signs indicated it had been moved to Leeds Castle.  The remainder of the 
Tower was much the same as 4 years ago, thought the Crown Jewels exhibit 
has been nicely revamped and is much more pleasant to visit.

Rhodri ap Gwythyr
--
Paul A. Foster           |  The opinions expressed are those of the 
Marathon Oil Co.         |  author and do not necessarily reflect 
foster at hou.moc.com       |  those of the company.


From: Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tower of London
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:55:49 GMT
Organization: Drachenwald

In article <BnHFf1r.ejpiii at delphi.com> ejpiii at delphi.com  writes:

> Garick Chamberlin <Garick at vonkopke.demon.co.uk> writes:
>  
> >>  Does anyone have any contact #'s or addresses for the Tower of London?
>  
> >The Tower ain't what it used to be. :^(  :^(  :^(
> >The Tower Armouries are gone. <sniff> Removed to Sheffield or some such. No
> >armour, no researchers, no book store.  <Whah!!!!>
>  
> Is this for real? I was there less than a year ago and all was as it always has
> bee
> been. I also don't recall reading anything there about moving the exhibit. If
> som
> anyone can verify this it would be most interesting to know. I must also add
> that
> it would still be worth a visit just to see the architecture, but alas, a lesser> visit all round.
> Eddward

I can, sadly, confirm this. I wasn't just writing off the cuff, I've seen it.
I live here. The damned government sent the whole kit and kaboodle off to 
another part of the country to improve tourism there and win support. I guess
they thought London had an unfair advantage. Sigh. London's only an hour away
for me.
-- 
Garick
Honor Virtus Est


From: Steve Muhlberger <stevem at einstein.unipissing.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tower of London
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 19:56:58 -0800
Organization: Nipissing University

Pat McGregor wrote:

> I have to say that this won't be a miss for me. ;-) Late period armor not
> being my thing.

Ah, but Siobhan, all the late period stuff was still there!  The 
wonderful chain-mail, bascinets, etc. had been taken away first!  *Sob*

> I much more enjoyed the various towers, chambers, 

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I believe the new emphasis at the 
Tower is going to be restoring historic spaces.  They already have done 
some work on recreating the royal chambers used by Edward I (though it 
looked a bit unfinished to me...)

There may be some gain in this change.
Finnvarr


From: jartificer at aol.com (Jartificer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Trip to London - where do I buy...
Date: 7 Oct 1996 00:08:47 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

  There are a number of shops right around the British Museum, selling old
coins, real antiquities, modern fakes, cheap Indian imports at high
prices, and so on. These are all priced for the upper-middle income museum
visitors. There must be other dealers and shops, but I have not found them
yet.

Master John the Artificer
John Rose


From: sxymnnkilt at aol.com (SxyMnNKilt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Trip to London - where do I buy...
Date: 7 Oct 1996 04:47:09 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

When I was in London, I looked all over for fencing products and came up
with a big fat 0. But the Tower of London sells armor and a gift shop
across from it sells kilts. The London Dungeon was a disapointment,
cheesey wax works.

Niall.


From: rorice at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Trip to London - where do I buy...
Date: 8 Oct 1996 05:07:48 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <5369s8$1rd at epimetheus.algonet.se>,
Elin Hellgren <thepond at algonet.se> wrote:
>I am going to London for a vacation soon. I am a member of SCA Nordmark, and I
>wish to visit some nice shops with medival-inspired things.
>I am also a fencer and I would like to buy equipment.
>Please mail me if you have information about this.

        If you were from the U.S. I'd say save your money and spend your 
time looking at museums (esp. the Victoria and Albert, the National 
Gallery, and the Museum of London. The Tower is of secondary value since 
I've heard that they've moved most of the armor out of it.)
        Since you are from Sweden, figure out how the EU tarriff regs and 
currency work to see if you can actually save money by buying stuff in 
England vs. buying at home. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest buying 
books about topics relating to England or English historical site. e.g. 
the various "Finds From Archeological Digs in London" books, the Hall 
"The Viking Dig" (covering the archeological digs at Jorvik), stuff on 
the Sutton Hoo treasure, catalogs of museum collections, post cards of 
Period art works, catalogs of English tomb brasses, etc. I was also 
intrigued and amused by the various pamphlets that Shire Books puts out. 
(Sort of primers on all sorts of craft and antiquitarian interests - 
everything from Scottish Castles to Quilt-making. Imagine a CA pamphlet 
with better graphics and production values.)

        It is also concievable that you could get really first-rate 
English wool there, but I have a feeling that these days all textiles are 
made in Malaysia or Indonesia.

        Lothar


From: peterbi at microsoft.com (Peter N. Biddle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tower Of London and Bunratty Castle (Ireland)
Date: 12 Dec 1996 19:33:59 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

I visited the Tower of London (again) and Bunratty Castle (Ireland) a 
couple of weeks ago and I have some notes to share:

Tower - Almost all of the armor is GONE. URK! It has been moved to the 
royal armories, one at Leeds(just outside London) and one at Portsmouth. 
What remains is Henry VIII's collection of tourney armor, plus some of the 
more quaint pieces form his personal armory (combined weapons like 
musket/shields, musket/maces, etc.), and some random pieces of other 
late-period tourney stuff. So you can see his famous cod-piece and the 
skirt armor, but not much more. (I actually got to hear the 
winched-onto-the-horse story again, fortunately not by a guide but by an 
observer.) I didn't get to Leeds (no time), which was a major drag.

The White tower is essentially closed - this is in the long run goodness 
as they are renovating it so that it can be displayed as it was used 
originally, as opposed to being an armor warehouse.

Once again the "palace" with the 13th cent. re-enactors was the best, and 
as it was off-season, we basically had the place to ourselves. I had a 
long talk with one of the lords present, playing a 13th cent. knight (the 
king was there as well), and got a good look at his shoes and clothes, all 
of which were hand-made. He said the shoes he had (above the ankle 
turn-shoes, using button-type fasteners set to the outside, with no 
exposed seams) were based on a 13th century London dig-find, and that they 
were the most comfortable shoes he wore. He also showed me a period 
woodblock of knights playing a board game sans belts - he was of the 
opinion that when you got home you took off the belt and the assorted 
accouterment to relax, letting your tunics fall more like a dress. He wore 
a non-hooded circle cloak (8 yards of cloth), a separate hood, a shorter 
outer-tunic with short sleeves, a long inner tunic, knee-high hose/socks 
connected to a belt, and "diaper-like" under wear (didn't see that...). 
Not as much jewelry as the king - a couple of rings. The belt he wore (and 
the king) was quite narrow - not like most of the belts you see around an 
SCA event.

<snipped stuff on Bunratty Castle. See the file Ireland-msg.>

Colm


From: "AJ" <aj at lothene.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tower Of London and Bunratty Castle (Ireland)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:25:10 GMT
Organization: Appallingly bad, usually.

Peter N. Biddle <peterbi at microsoft.com> wrote:
> Typo alert - Leeds is in England. It is, I believe, just outside
London...
> In article <58pmn7$s5s at news.microsoft.com>, peterbi at microsoft.com says...
> >
> >I visited the Tower of London (again) and Bunratty Castle (Ireland) a 
> >couple of weeks ago and I have some notes to share:
> >
> >Tower - Almost all of the armor is GONE. URK! It has been moved to the 
> >royal armories, one at Leeds(just outside England) and one at
Portsmouth. 

Actually the Leeds which the Armory has moved to is in Yorkshire, in the
North of England. There is a Leeds castle in Kent, which is just outside
London (sort of..) but that is unconnected. Some might say that Yorkshire
should be outside England, however as a Lancastrian I can't really comment.

Personally I find it irritating that thay've left the Henry VIII stuff in
London because Leeds is much easier for me to get to & the time I managed
to get to the Tower (before the collection moved) I paid the exorbitant
admission price just to see the armour & discovered that it was on loan to
an exibition in Sweden!
If you want to see armour in London then go to the Wallace collection. It
was free last time I heard & has loads of arms & armour, as well as a lot
of other art (It's an art collection but they considered armour & weapons
to be art. I think I agree.) They own the Laughing Cavalier, which is
actually quite small whwn you see it for real.
-- 
AJ
aj at lothene.demon.co.uk
Alastair Saunders


From: david_key at vnet.ibm.com (Dave Key)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Royal Armouries was Re: Tower Of London and Bunratty Castle (Ireland)
Date: 23 Dec 1996 10:53:55 GMT
Organization: IBM UK (Hursley)

In <01bbec6e$852b8480$fe53dec2 at lothene.demon.co.uk>, "AJ" <aj at lothene.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> In article <58pmn7$s5s at news.microsoft.com>, peterbi at microsoft.com says...
>> >Tower - Almost all of the armor is GONE. URK! It has been moved <snip> 
>> > ... one at Leeds <snip> and one at Portsmouth. 
The Royal Armouries collection of Arms & Armour is now at a purpose built
museum at ... 
The Waterfront
Armouries Drive,
Leeds,
Yorkshire,
England
LS10 1LT
Tel. 0113 245 6456

The Royal Armouries Museum of Artillery ... their collection of Ordnance 
from medieval to Modern is (& has been for a couple of years (1988)) at 
Fort Nelson ... a Palmeston Fort built in 1860 to defend Portsmouth against 
a land attack from the French. It is just to the north of Portsmouth (home of
the Mary Rose, Victory etc. as well as the Royal Navy) on Portsdown hill
which overlooks the city ... where Edmund Paston agreed to muster with
Richard of Gloucester for Edward IV's invasion of France in 1475 and from
where you can also see Porchester Castle (possibly the best Saxon Shore 
fort in Britain ... well worth a visit with a full circuit of walls and the Norman 
keep in the corner).

Fort Nelson has a series of displays of artillery throughout the year ... these
include 2 displays/demonstrations of C15th (Wars of the Roses) artillery
by 'The White Company (1450-1485)' (i.e. archery & early ordnance) on 
June 7th-8th & Sept  27th.

Cheers,
Dave
 

From: caroline at here-be-dragons.demon.co.uk (Caroline )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Royal Armouries was Re: Tower Of London and Bunratty Castle (Ireland)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:36:26 GMT

david_key at vnet.ibm.com (Dave Key) wrote:

>The Royal Armouries collection of Arms & Armour is now at a purpose built
>museum at ... 
>The Waterfront
>Armouries Drive,
>Leeds,
>Yorkshire,
>England
>LS10 1LT
>Tel. 0113 245 6456

It's well worth a visit (from a season-ticket holder who still hasn't
seen everything).  Some more info and the odd picture can be found at
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/tourinfo/attract/museums/armour.html 

Caroline


From: Zachary Kessin <zkessin at lhr-sys.dhl.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: England favourites
Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:53:02 +0100
Organization: DHL Systems Limited

Well if you are going to be in London Here are some Sugestions:

Free Stuff
The Brittish  Musium, (Take the Tube to Russel Square)
The National Gallery  (Take the Tube to Charing Cross)
The National Portrat Gallery (Charing Cross)

Not Free Stuff:
HM's the Tower of London (Tube to Tower Hill)
The Victoria & Albert    (South Kensington)

The Musium of London is cool too. I think its down by Bank.

--William Atwode,
(MKA Zach Kessin London England)


From: bomlin at aol.com (Bomlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: England favourites
Date: 22 Apr 1998 14:02:11 GMT

>Well if you are going to be in London Here are some Sugestions:

I'll add to this list.

First thing, get a street map of London.  I'm not talking about the 1 pound
guides in the tube.  The most common book is the AtoZ street guide.(rember, if
asking for it, say A to Zed since the pronounce the Z's slightly different)

Take an extra passport sized photo.  Go to a larger tube stop and purchase a
zone 1-2 one week pass.  This allows you to travel on the tube and buses for
one week(in zones 1 and 2), any time of the day.  The photo is for the id card,
a nice momento of your trip.  You will be given the id card and the pass.  Ask
for a holder for them that allows both to be shown at the same time.

Always look for combo tickets, this can save money.

To save money from Heathrow, take the tube or a bus into the city.  I recommend
the bus to Victoria Station, you don't have to fight with your luggage on the
tude.  Once you get into the city, take a taxi to your hotel.  A lot of hotels
also offer a shuttle service.  A taxi trip from Heathrow to the center of
London can be upwards of 70 pounds.

For Westminster Abbey and the British Musuem, make sure to get there early. 
The tours will fill these up quickly.


Aside from the "major" stops, I might suggest...

The Globe theater:  The reconstruction of the Globe is complete and my wife and
I saw Henry V there 2 weeks after the theater opened.  The theater alone is
worth the price of admission.  If you want to sit in actual seats, call your
local ticket master and see if they can give you the number of the ticket
master in England.  I believe that the standing room only tickets are availible
the day of performance.  Remember when talking to ticket master or a taxi
driver to refer to the theater as "Shakespere's Globe."  There is another Globe
theater in town.  Also, this is not near a tube stop so go to Big Ben or
Trafalger square and get a taxi.  Will run 5-8 pounds.

Shakespere in the Park.  The RSC presents plays all summer long in Regent's
Park(near Madam Tassauds and Baker Street Station).  Once again, call ticket
master for tickets.  They usually do 2 or 3 plays a summer, so ask for a
schedule.  These performances are in the evening and are perfect combined with
a picnic dinner and a boat trip around the lake near the zoo beforehand.  If
you are interested, take peanuts for the squirrels while visiting the Rose
Gardens.  Don't bother with the zoo, London's zoo, IMHO, does not compare with
the better ones in the states.

Covent Garden Market.  On Mondays, this market is a perfect place to  purchase
medieval artifacts.  Buckles and coins can be had for 5 to 75 pounds.  Deeds
and other documents  for 125 pounds and up.

Portobello Market, near Lancaster Gate if memory serves.  On Saturdays, this
street becomes an excellant place to look for more medieval artifacts.  I
picked up a purse frame, a spear head, an arrow head, and a lock and key here.

If you decide that you want to take in a show that night, the ticket booths in
Leceister square are a shopping point.  There is a large one in the square and
one by the tube stop and numerous smaller ones around.  August is busy so don't
be hopeful for Phantom or Les Mis.

Chinatown.  Just north of Leceister square.  Walk from Picadilly Circus to
Leceister Square and watch for the signs.  If you like Chinese, the food in
Chinatown is very good.  Also, the restaraunts tend to be open a bit later. 
Remember, menus are posted on the outside so walk around and see what you like.
 This is home to the restaurant, Le Ho Foks(sp?) from the song Werewolves of
London.  For the record, they do not serve Chow Mein... ;-)

If you are interested in books, I might suggest a short side trip from the
British Museum.  The largest Dillions bookstore is about 5 minutes walk north
of the British Museum.  Great place to pick up books.

Greenwich.  Take the Docklands Light Railway(at the Tower Hill tube stop) to
the last stop across the river from Greenwich.  Walk through the tunnel under
the river.  Things to see here include the Cutty Sark, the National Maritime
Museum, and the Greenwich Observatory, home of the Greenwich Meridian.

Combo tickets are availible for the Tower and Hampton Court Palace.  I highly
recommend taking the train from Waterloo to Hampton Court, buy a combo ticket
at Hampton.  See the Tudor kitchens and then take a ferry back down the
Thames(2 - 3 hours) and then go to the Tower.

HMS Belfast, if intersted in WWII era, there is a battleship moored across from
the Tower.  Perfect excuse to walk across Tower Bridge.

When going outside of London, visit the local TIC(Tourist information center)
usually near the rail station.  You can get free local maps and check out the
list of local activities.

Warwick Castle.  One of my favorite castles.  If you call a few months ahead of
time, you can book a dinner in the castle.

Bath.  Aside from the abbey and the Roman Baths, don't forget the costume
museum.  There are also shops along the way with more opportunities to pick up
medieval artifacts.

York.  I cannot recommend this stop enough.  Between the cathedral, the city
walls, the Yorvik Viking center, and the existing Medieval buildings, this is a
great city to visit.  This is one of the few larger medieval cities that did
not suffer a major fire.

Leeds.  If you are interested in armor, make a trip to the Royal Armouries in
Leeds.  In addition to the museum, there is a very nice daily show of falconry,
jousting, a restoration shop with glass walls to allow viewing, and a shop of
the most authetic period shoes that you could want.

Portsmouth.  Home to the Mary Rose(Tudor era warship) and the HMS
Victory(battle of Trafalgar).  If you are interested in period maritime at all,
this is a must see.

Stratford upon Avon.  I wasn't originally going to go to Stratford, but on my
last weekend in England, I went.  I'm very glad that I did.  I would suggest
making a day of this.  Take your time and see all the buildings.  I walked from
the city to Ann Hathaway's cottage(about a 2-3 mile walk if I remember).  There
are buses availible but the cottage is worth a visit.  Make sure that you get a
nice tourist map so that you don't miss any of the buildings.

If you are going to be seeing a lot of castles, you might want to buy a
membership in both The English Heritage and The National Trusts at your first
stops.  This will save money in the long run.

Well, between London and outside the city, this would fill 2 weeks.  If you
need any more suggestions let me know.

Lord Thomas Wright of Lancaster.


From: Zachary Kessin <zkessin at lhr-sys.dhl.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: England favourites
Date: 23 Apr 1998 09:00:53 +0100
Organization: DHL Systems Limited

A few things to add to this list:

Hampton Court Pallace. (Cardnal Wolsey's place) You can get a train
from Waterloo station. I havent been yet. 

The Jewel Tower, part of the old pallace of Westmister, (Tube to
Westmister, its next to the Parlament). 

The London Parks are loveley. 

If you are interested in the History of Medicine the John Snow Pub, is
on Broadwick st, (And its a cool pub). 

If you buy an AZed dont get the realy litte one they are useless. 

If you want to take a cab anywhere get a *MINI* cab they are much
cheaper.

--Zach (SCA William Atwode)


From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Names of Medieval Shops
Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 01:36:03 GMT

Caleb <spaceheater at geocities.com> wrote:
>does any one have a list of names (or atleast sources point towards or
>just info) pertaining to names of shops in medieval england (perfeably
>woodworking/carving establishments). Also, did people have a tendancy to
>invent forms of a word? (ie a place that primarly makes spoons might be
>called a "spoonery)

Try "A Survey of London" by John Stow (ISBN 0-7509-0827-0) it's a
detailed description of London, written in 1598. This book was just
re-published, so your favorite bookstore should be able to order it.

I don't specifically remember any shop names, but then I wasn't
particularly looking for them, either.

        -Tivar Moondragon
                Ansteorra

C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com


From: Dmckeon at swcp.com (Denis McKeon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval Ships
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:42:51 -0600
Organization: Connemara - Computing for People - ABQ/NM/USA

Bomlin wrote:
...
>I had the lucky experience of working in London for about a year and a half and
>I visited the Naval Museum in Portsmouth twice.  The Mary Rose musuem is very
>well done.  The HMS Victory(Nelson's ship) is also on display within 100 feet
>of the Mary Rose.  The Mary Rose is currently in a temporary facility which is
>being used to treat the lumber so that it will not decay any furthur.  The
>Victory is on display outside in a drydock.
>
>For planning purposes, Portsmouth is about 2 hours by train from Waterloo
>station.

For something a bit closer to London, although mostly past the SCA period,
may I strongly recommend a 20-minute ride on the Docklands Light Rail
from Tower Hill down the north side of the Thames to Island Gardens
and a walk under the Thames in the Greenwich Foot Tunnel to: 

    http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London, UK

which has a room full of detailed ship models, nearly all of which were 
made contemporaneously with the ships they represent, and in many cases
were contructed for the naval architect or shipyard owner to use as a
selling piece: "Yes, Admiral, 34 guns, and the flag cabin would be here ...."

There are also various non-nautical places of interest in Greenwich,
several closer to period, but I'll leave that for another thread.

To return, one can ride by boat up-river, past the Tower, and the
reconstruction of the Globe Theatre, to Westminster, and try to imagine
what it all would have looked like before the bridges were built.

The History channel, IIRC, has been running a well-done series on old ships - 
ranging from Viking longboats through square-riggers.  

The 18 books in Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series are also past
period (1800-1815), but are delightful nautical reading.  Imagine the
period and manners of Jane Austen combined with nautical topics better
done than Forester's Hornblower.

For more on that topic, and for other nautical URLs, see:
    http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/general.html#nautical 

Bennet
al-Barran
Outlands 


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:48:39 -0400
From: Mary_HallSheahan at ademco.com
Subject: Re: SC - going to London

Charing Cross Road has a handful of antiquarian bookstores.  I found them
when I made a pilgrimage to the site of Marks&Spencer: 84 Charing Cross
Road.  (Charming book, charming film but the bookstore in question is long
gone.)
Emme


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:15:10 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - book by Lambert & London

<snip>

2 - I was just in London:

The British Museum has a cook book with Medieval Welsh recipes called The
British Museum Cook Book.  The Museum was undergoing major reconstruction
(destruction).  Everything is disorganized! The gift shop is outside, but
the bookstore is inside to your immediate left at the end of a corridor.
Be sure to see the display on 5,000 Yrs of Textiles, the book is on sale
for L 25 from L 35.  Other books may interest you depending on your
persona's country and period.

(If you enter and go to the right you'll end up in the King's Library --
be sure to see the Lindesfarne Gospels!  Be sure to ask a Librarian if you
have a specific title in mind you want to research.

If you go to the 2nd right you will end up in the kiddie bookstore.  They
have a great series of British coins from Claudius to Elizabeth I.)

3 - I bought 14 cookery books at Hampton Court, and there were several
that were display only (out of stock).  If you do a day trip GO TO
Hampton Court!  The largest book store is next to the admission/ticket
booth.  The little bookstore is in through the Wine Cellar in what was the
buttery.  They had 23 cook books from Roman to Victorian times.  I should
have brought more money and a wheelbarrow.  Fortunately, my husband, son
and sister helped me carry them.  The Tudor Kitchens were perfect, Hampton
Court was perfect.  I can see why Henry VIII went there for his honeymoon
again and again and ....

4 - I spent 2 days looking through the bookshops in St Martin's Court.
This area is off Trafalgar Square and was previously mentioned --
Charing Cross is the closest tube station.  St Martin's Court is also a
haven for stamp and coin, and print sellers.  I found a complete set of
the 500 Anniversary of College of Heralds' stamps and victorian vegetable
prints and a small beat up book of victorian recipes, a charity thing w/
soup kitchen recipes, nothing period. St Martin's church is right there.
They have free organ recitals at 1pm and a basement/crypt cafe open from
11am to 8pm. Dinner is L 6 for curried salmon or lamb w/ lentil stew.
(The national portrait gallery is directly across the street.
I checked out the portrait of Richard III -- he does NOT have a hump.
If you get tired of books there's another museum next door w/ Rembrant's
Night Watch and various Picassos. At Trafalgar Square you can actually
look for books AND be a tourist.)

Penguin Books has a huge store w/ every book they ever published.  I can't
remember which street -- it's in the phonebook.  I didn't see any cookery
books, but their section on medieval Lit was beyond belief.

Ariann
ariann at nmia.com


Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:43:22 -0000
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Sausages

Ras asked: 
Is there anyone on this list who actually lives in England and either makes 
or purchases various English sausages who can shine light on the various 
types that are available in Britain? I suspect that not all sausages made in 
England can be described in the same way. Is there a specific
sausage that is called by the name 'English' sausage (e.g., containing slimy
stuff) in the same manner that we have 'Italian' sausage (e.g., with fennel) or
'Polish' sausage (e.g., kielbasi)?

The traditional type of sausages you buy in the supermarket here are
"Cumberland" and "Lincolnshire", both of which are lovely, and the most
commonly used for English breakfasts (I have a pack in the freezer myself
for weekends with guests). 
On the whole I have been very impressed with the quality of sausages in the
UK. I have an English friend who lives in Auckland, NZ (where I grew up) who
refuses to eat New Zealand sausages because they're garbage, and now I've
lived here, I must say I agree with him. 
There is a chain of shops in London which sell only sausages - everything
from Wild Boar & Fennel, Pheasant and Port, Welsh Lamb & Leek, Hot Algerian,
German, South African, non-pork, vegetarian, etc etc. It's a wonderful
place, and my freezer always does well out of it when I visit! So next time
any of you visit London, I shall be happy to feed you excellent English-made
sausages...

Al Servizio Vostro, e del Sogno
Lucretzia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK


From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [OT] London Cookbook Stores
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:06:56 -0000

Giano asked:
>I'll be in London in July, among other things
>shopping for cookbooks, and am still looking for
>good addresses to browse for historical ones and
>'period stuff'. Can anyone point me to something?

Well, there is of course Books for Cooks at Blenheim Crescent - they have
several thousand cookbook and cooking related titles on their shelves, and
some used titles too. If a British cookbook is in print, they probably have
it. Every visit there has a disastrous effect on my credit card bill.

Nanna


From: johnna007h at netscape.net
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:44:51 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A Question...Cookbooks in London

A question that someone here might be able to help
me with:
I'll be in London in July, among other things
shopping for cookbooks, and am still looking for
good addresses to browse for historical ones and
'period stuff'. Can anyone point me to something?

Giano

Books for Cooks in London has a home page at www.booksforcooks.com. It includes a map indicating which tube stops are closest and what other shops are in that neighborhood.  For secondhand books, I rather liked the smaller shops off Charing Cross and also around the British Museum when I was there in the 1980's.  Also Shaftesbury Avenue was full of gourmet and neat cookware shops that had all those funny sorts of speciality bakeware called for in traditional English cookery.

As a final word of caution, be sure and bring a backpack so you can carry away all the books. The carrier bags can really cut into ones hands.

Johnna Holloway


From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] [OT] London Cookbook Stores
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:54:40 +0100

London has some the yellow pages will help, but if you get the chance to
get to Edingburough there is a dedicated book shop for cooks just below a
proper bakery and cheese shop and hand made brush shop that do all sorts of toys for good cooks.

just down the Royal mile and then down into the grassmarket (i think its
called) last time I was there I had an understanding husband who guided me as I was too busy looking to watch where I was going.

There is even a decent pub to get lunch in.
The book shop is run by Clarissa Dickson Wright of the Two Fat Ladies fame
and is brilliant. The discussion was on which road to pick up road kill phesants and who had the best game that year.

Vara


Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:03:27 -0500 (EST)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] an article about food & market
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Just came across this:
F. J. Fisher, "The Development of the London Food Market, 1540-1640," in
E.M. Carus-Wilson, ed., Essays in Economic History, I (London, 1954), p.
135-151.

Charts of how much was imported, market gardening info, etc.

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:46:31 +0200
From: Finne Boonen <hennar at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Request for help/advice
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:28:24 -700, Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net> wrote:
> There are three ladies from the Barony of Calafia going to attend the
> Medieval Dress and Textile Society convention/meeting in London in 
> October.
>
> They are wondering as to advice as to where to say while they are
> there.  Is there anyone that could recommend a youth hostel, or perhaps
> they would know of crash space or some concept of that sort?  
> Maggie MacD.

http://www.shakespearehotel.co.uk/
is a recomendable place to sleep and quite budget, rooms with shared
bathroom in the hall.

Finne


Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:33:25 +1200
From: Lila Richards <lilar at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: [Lochac] [Fwd: [LON] MAPCO Update : The City Of London As In
	Queen Elizabeth's Time]
To: "The Shambles, the SCA Lochac mailing list" <lochac at sca.org.au>

I thought some of you here might be interested in this. It can be 
enlarged in segments to show different areas in detail.

John Strype's map entitled 'The City Of London As In Queen
Elizabeth's Time' is now on display:

http://archivemaps.com/mapco/londonstrype/strype.htm

This pretty little map (printed in 1720) affords a fascinating
glimpse of Elizabethan London. The hand colouring on this map is
exquisite, so it is well worth seeing this map just for its intrinsic 
beauty.


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:33:52 +0200
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

<<< What I would like are suggestions for lesser-known places to visit,
cheap eats, and stupid tourist tricks to avoid.  And answers to the
questions that I don't know enough to ask.  :-)

Brighid ni Chiarain >>>

Tate Modern, don't miss it, wonderful, gigantic proportions and one of the
best collections av Modern Art. The reconstruction of the Globe,
Shakespeares own theater, great building and interesting plays. Near the
Tate, go to the Borough Market, where you can find wonderful food, cheeses
and breads, http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/

That's London's oldest market, from the Roman times, from the Market you
stroll down to the river and find the Globe and the Tate Modern in the same
walk. Ride the Eye if you want a great sight over London.
Go to Waterloo and take a train to Richmond, only 25 minutes train but
another world. Hampton Court, Henry the VIII castle, Kew Garden
extraordinary gardens, Kingston upon Thames nice church and great walks
along the Thames.

Go to Bloomsbury and walk in Virginia Woolf's path. Check London Eater for
good eating suggestions, http://londoneater.com

Ana
Gondolgatan 2 l tr
12832 Skarpn?ck
Sweden


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:47:13 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

I loved the British Museum...lots of really cool stuff.  I also took a tour
(can't remember the name of the company) that went down through Kent through
Leeds Castle and Canterbury to Dover.  I liked it because, for the most
part, we were on our own to wander.  The only exception was the tour through
Leeds Castle.  It's been a while, but before I went, I purchased a "London
for Less" book.  It included cards that gave me discounts on all sorts of
restaurants, galleries, etc.  Be sure, also, to get out to Hampton
Court...not to be missed, even if you've seen it before.  They always seem
to be making improvements!

The US distributors for the book:  London for Less Card, 1712 Springfield
St., Dayton, OH 45403.  The name of the company in England:  Metropolis
Pomotions, Ltd.  Phone 0800454856 (toll free).  For the US compnay
800-244-2361.

They may no longer be in business...This was is 1996.  But there's probably
something similar...we just "did" Chicago using a similar "Go Chicago"
card...saved us a bundle on admissions!

Kiri


Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:21:03 +1200
From: Antonia Calvo <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

Some friends of mine suggest that if you like historic houses, castles, 
gardens and so forth,  it's worth joining the National Trust-- it's 
?35.63 to join and you get free admission to lots of of National Trust 
owned sites.

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk
-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:46:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

London is a nifty place.

Get most of your money from ATMs--that way you get the interbank rate as 
opposed to the usurious rates that moneychangers charge.

Remember that the pound is like the dollar, so a sandwich in a pub might 
run you 7.95 GBP.

London is full of restaurants, and many of them post their menus by the 
door.

The British Museum, the V&A, the Museum of London, the British Library, 
all have good web sites on which you can check hours and whether a given 
gallery is open or not. The MoL is free. The British Library is also free. 
Many historic places have entrance fees. Check 
http://www.britishheritagepass.com/ to see if buying it will save you 
money--they have a London-specific pass that might be what you're looking 
for.

Margaret FitzWilliam

It is likely to be a bit chilly and damp, since it's October.


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:11:43 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

Regarding National Trust, if you're only going to be in London for a 
week you might not get your money's worth unless you plan to go back for 
a year.  If you do decide, join the Royal Oak Society which is the US 
version of National Trust.  The fee is tax-deductible but your fee to 
National Trust isn't.  A number of London sites were free or weren't 
open on the days I was there.  Check the NT's web site and look for 
London sites to see what's there, the cost and when they are open.

On the other hand, if you want the Tower of London, Hampton Court, the 
Banqueting House, and Kensington Palace, you might purchase a 
membership in Historic Royal Palaces.  If you visit those four places 
you will have pretty much made back what you paid.  And, you get a 10% 
discount at all their on site shops and food places (Hampton Court and 
Tower of London).  There's also a nice bulletin that is sent to members 
at least once or twice a year.

I would second the recommendation for the Museum of London.

Alys K.


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:21:39 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

when we went (oh, ten years ago - 3 weeks ireland, 1 week 
england) the Leeds Armory Museum was still fairly new, and 
incredibly impressive.  they had men doing little 
in-character monologues of what their weapon-involved 
lives were...  Hoplite warrior, two 14th cent soldiers 
doing real warhammer fight, WW2 Russian sniper.  they 
talked with you afterward.  it was fascinating  even let 
dear heart snoop over their armor and take pictures after. 
if you wanted to know, they were happy to show or tell 
you.

the british library let me stay the day and sketch 
manuscript pages and press my nose against all the glass, 
and were very apologetic that "ms. backhouse was not there 
to chat with me about the book" (lindesfarne gospel - a 
special scribal interest of mine).  she'd gone on a trip 
the day before we arrived.

obligatory food content:  don't order potatoes in london. 
it's a crime what they did to them when we were there. 
;)

cailte


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:50:30 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

On the matter of money changing...use your credit card wherever and whenever
possible.  That way you don't have to worry about figuring out the exchange
rate...and you get the best rates.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:03:28 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London- long

LONDON Advice

Sue and I have gone in 2004, 2006, and again this past spring in 2009.  
We seem to manage pretty well. James and I were there for the 1984-85  
academic year and back again in 1998.  So anyway from an experienced  
traveler--

What I do is go through and start a file on London. Then as I come  
across things and activities I cut and paste items and add them to the  
file. I then print the file off and take it with us. I try to not haul  
more than one guidebook over.  I also look things and stores up and  
copy off their info to take. I also did a major search on the travel  
websites like Fodors and the news sites before going just to check out  
what people were talking about that was of interest. You might run  
your hotel through tripadvisor too so you know what sort of area it is  
in and precautions like eating elsewhere and not in the hotel.

If you are taking a pc, you may or may not have internet. Our hotel  
ended up not having internet available over Easter weekend. You had to  
sit in the bar in order to use the net. Of course we kept running into  
things where the most up to date information was posted on the web  
which we couldn't get to. Internet fees can be very expensive anyway.

I do urge everyone to buy an up to date guidebook for London. Go to  
Borders or B&N and check them out first. Find one you like and buy it.  
Also something like The London Mapguide is invaluable. Once you are  
there you can hit tourist information and get brochures or buy a copy  
of Time Out. If you want theater tickets, you should be able to get  
half price tickets after you get there.

One book that I love for countryside house and garden tours is  
Hudson's Historical Houses and Gardens. It comes out annually and  
includes all the houses and gardens that are open to the public along  
with admission fees and dates of being opened. It also covers London.  
Mark which places you are interested in and Xerox those pages. Take  
the Xeroxes with you and leave the 600 plus page book at home.

(Anyone who is driving should invest in a good road atlas. I don't  
care if the rental car comes with GPS, get an atlas too.)

You didn't say where you were staying but you may want to get one of  
the combination tube and bus fare cards. Or the tube now has the  
Oyster Card, which you reload with pounds. It's a tap and go farecard. https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do

The UK's credit cards increasingly have smart chips in them. The USA  
cards don't which means you often will have to go to a window and ask  
them to manually swipe your credit card.  Tell them it's an American  
card. This was the way we used to get our oyster cards reloaded in  
April. It also slows up shopping in some of the shops.

London is building for the Olympics. Certain tube stations and lines  
are closed. This can make it somewhat difficult to get places.  Be  
sure and get a bus map with updated route information in case you need  
to take a bus and not take the tube.

 Places to see: V&A- yes. National Portrait Gallery, National  
Gallery, British Museum.

 British Library is interesting and for a librarian probably a must  
see.

Shopping-

Books for Cooks is always good. www.booksforcooks.com

4 Blenheim Cres  London, W11 1NN, United Kingdom  +44 20 72211992

Across the street is a Spice Shop.

 Foyles has updated and turned into a decent bookstore which takes  
credit cards now.

 Try not to have the shops ship books home. The shipping costs can be  
more than the purchase.

 I took the new Lands End carrier type cloth bags with me this past  
spring and they worked very well. They fold up when not in use. Much  
easier to handle than plastic shopping bags.

Do get your luggage weighed before you get to the airport. Sue's one  
bag was a couple kilos over so she took stuff out and placed it in her  
carry-on luggage. Unfortunately what she took out was her make-up bag  
and security made her toss everything at the checkpoint. Also no- you  
cannot carry back in your hand luggage items like jams, jellies, lemon  
curds, etc. Buy them past security.

 For October, a good raincoat and rainhat would be worthwhile.

Johnna


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:11:07 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

There really aren't that many National Trust houses in London.
The question is always one of price for single admissions versus the  
annual fee.
If you are American, you can join Royal Oak Foundation, the National  
Trust's US membership affiliate. It's cheaper and you can join in the US.

Johnna

On Sep 10, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Antonia Calvo wrote:
<<< Some friends of mine suggest that if you like historic houses,  
castles, gardens and so forth,  it's worth joining the National  
Trust-- it's ?35.63 to join and you get free admission to lots of of  
National Trust owned sites. http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk >>>


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:14:13 -0500
From: Colin MacNachtan <colin at mccr.org>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London- long

On Thursday 10 September 2009, Johnna Holloway wrote:
<<< You didn't say where you were staying but you may want to get one of  
the combination tube and bus fare cards. Or the tube now has the  
Oyster Card, which you reload with pounds. It's a tap and go farecard.
https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do >>>

You can also get travel passes for 1 day, 3 days, 7 days, or a month.  Those 
allow you unlimited tube travel which is great when you're hitting multiple 
places in a day.  I'm not sure it's still true, but 10 years ago the travel 
pass was also good for a huge discount off regional rail tickets, eg to 
Hampton Court.  You might be required to also get a photocard if you get a 
longer pass.

Check out http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/10628.aspx

Colin MacNachtan


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:18:34 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London exchange rates

On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Elaine Koogler wrote:
<<< On the matter of money changing...use your credit card wherever and whenever
possible.  That way you don't have to worry about figuring out the exchange
rate...and you get the best rates.

Kiri >>>

Actually most of the cards now are slapping on a 1.5 % to 3 percent  
exchange fee. Check with your card before you go about any fees.
(My book orders are arriving with these extra fees these days.)

 Also be sure and let the card know that you
are going abroad so that they don't cancel your card while you are there.
Olwen had her bank deny her bankcard while she was in Europe this summer
because they thought her card had been stolen. I would make sure that  
my bank knew I was traveling too.

Unfortunately the dollar slid against both the Euro and pound this week so it's just going to be damn expensive, even if you eat in Mac's and not out in real  
restaurants. I always run all the prices through a small calculator to see what the damage is.

Johnna


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:26:27 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

Two other comments:  If you want food as nourishment and not as a 
culinary adventure, consider going to one of the Sainsbury or Marks & 
Spencer stores where they sell groceries.  You can buy sandwiches or 
baguettes there, plus yogurt, fruit salad, etc. for less than a 
restaurant.  My usual London fare was from one of the "French" food 
stands at train stations.  Brain is not cooperating as to the name, but 
they sell freshly-made baguettes ranging from about 1.50 pounds to 3.50 
or so.  I usually picked a cheap one such as the tomato and brie.  They 
are filling and inexpensive.

The problems of getting to Hampton Court that we had in April should not 
likely be a problem for you.  Rail service tends to shut down on Bank 
Holiday weekends which affected both Johnnae and myself and that weekend 
involved some particularly nasty repair work.  But, weekend rail travel 
can be tricky.  Besides Johnnae's Internet link you can look at 
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ to see if there will be any interruption 
in service.

Alys K.


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:03:06 -0400
From: bronwynmgn at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

As far as tips, carry an umbrella and jacket or a raincoat with you.  England is cooler than here and it tends to rain a little pretty much every day.

Pubs often have very good and quite cheap food.  We went to the pub across the street from our hotel for dinner the day we arrived on our honeymoon.  When we came back to the hotel, the desk clerk asked us where we'd gone for dinner.  When we told her, she said , "Oh, wasn't it horribly greasy?"  Actually it was excellent.  My husband had bangers and mash (sausages and mashed potatoes) and I had steak and ale pie, with a lovely puff pastry crust.

Use the buses rather than the taxis to get around.  They have wonderful maps and information at each stop as to not only which buses stop there and their routes, but also nearby bus stops for other routes.  We got on the wrong bus once, and the conductor told us where we'd gone wrong and let us off at the next stop, with instructions for how to find the right bus, without having us pay anything.

If you can find one, get a 24 hour bus pass for the sightseeing buses; you can ride as many times as you want in 24 hours from the time you buy the ticket.  We bought ours at 1 pm and had until 1 pm the next day.

At least when we were there, the British Museum allowed you to take pictures of the exhibits.

If you don't have to stay inside London, get a Britrail pass and do some stuff outside on the trains.  There are lots of places that you can get to in a few hours on the train and still have plenty of time to go sightseeing.  Leeds, where the Royal Armouries are now, is if I remember correctly, about 2 hours from London by train.

British hotel rooms are odd.  Ten years ago we spent our first 4 nights in a hotel in London, for 85 pounds a night.  As I recall, it worked out to well over $100 a night.  The room had a double bed with just enough room to squeeze past it on three sides, a trouser press, a tea service, and a long narrow passageway to the door.  And a tiny bathroom with a corner shower, but the entire bathroom, walls and floor, was MARBLE.

Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:16:15 -0700
From: "Celia des Archier" <CeliadesArchier at cox.net>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

Brangwayna Morgan said:
<<< Pubs often have very good and quite cheap food.  We went to the pub across
the street from our hotel for dinner the day we arrived on our honeymoon.  When we came back to the hotel, the desk clerk asked us where we'd gone for dinner. When we told her, she said , "Oh, wasn't it horribly greasy?"  Actually it was excellent.  My husband had bangers and mash (sausages and mashed potatoes) and I had steak and ale pie, with a lovely puff pastry crust. >>>

I second that emotion.  In fact, I concur with everything she said, but
especially about the pub food.  When I went to London, many these years ago,
we went the bed and breakfast route, and that's the first thing that our hosts
taught us... eat where the locals eat, which is generally the local pub.
There was one in their neighborhood that had all the British goodies I love
(such as the steak and ale pie mentioned above), but also had the same type of
family restaurant fare that we get in the states if you wanted it, and they
always had a nightly "special".  

It was just like eating at your Mom & Pops down the street (in the south we
have "meat and 3" restaurants... where whatever you get is an entre and 3
sides/veggies.) 

And I also concur with what Elise said about the little "French" style kiosks
in the train stations.  Our first meal in London was tea and a baguette
w/cheese at the kiosk and it was to die for, and *very cheap*... 1.5-3.5
pounds sounds about right, and that was over a decade ago, so those obviously
haven't changed much. 

Gosh!  Wish I was going with ya!  I *love* the British Isles. 

~ Celia


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:22:26 -0400
From: "tudorpot at gmail.com" <tudorpot at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

My suggestions- eat lunch in pubs- some very good food,
take the tube into London if you arrive at Heathrow
go to the West End and attend a show-cheap tickets are available
wander along the Thames by Westminister-wandering will give you time to 
reflect and absorb- it's also a lovely view

Freda


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:13:54 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

You can actually look up the Marks and Spencer food stores on the web.
They tend to be located near major tube stops.
If you eat early, prices are often much lower than they are after 7 PM.
London Restaurant Festival is 8-13 of October.
http://www.visitlondon.com/londonrestaurantfestival/

The Globe Theater is also interesting. And a walk across the  
Millennium Bridge across the Thames is pretty cool too.

Day trips-- I think Leeds might be rather far for a day trip by ones  
self, but Cambridge or Oxford are only an hour. Both have excellent museums.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:35:12 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

Unlike the U.S., bed and breakfast places tend to be cheaper than hotels and 
are often more convenient.  My experiences are over 40 years old, but some 
of the barony have made the hop over the pond more recently and say the 
same.

Bear 


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:14:28 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

I don't know if it counts as lesser known, but the British Museum is 
a favorite of mine. Go to the room that contains the Sutton Hoo 
treasure, stare at it for a while, then look at the rest of the 
contents of the room--possibly the best collection of migration 
period jewelery in the world.

The Museum of London is also fun--it specializes more in "ordinary life" stuff.

And I enjoy the early morning antique and junk fairs, which I presume 
still exist.
-- 
David/Cariadoc


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:00:20 -0500
From: Dave McCracken <dcm at mccr.org>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

On Thursday 10 September 2009, Elaine Koogler wrote:
<<< On the matter of money changing...use your credit card wherever and
whenever possible.  That way you don't have to worry about figuring out
the exchange rate...and you get the best rates. >>>

It may still be the best rate, but many credit cards and ATMs now charge a fee 
for foreign currency transactions, usually some percentage of the transaction.

Colin MacNachtan


Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:28:49 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

I responded off list but let me add -- I lived there for a while and
it took me quite some time to get the bus going in the right direction
because they drive on the other side.  I know - I have direction
issues but I never stopped looking both ways all the while I was
crossing the road!!


Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:27:29 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Visiting London

We have been staying at Jurys Inns in London.
In fact the stay last spring was cheaper per night than it was
in 2006 and 2004. We paid 49 pounds per night.
That was for a double and single bed (two beds) in the room, modern
large bath with tub and shower, flat screen tv, etc.
Located near the tube. OH and fully handicapped accessible with
elevator. Most B&B's are not handicapped friendly.

Johnnae

On Sep 11, 2009, at 5:09 PM, bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:
<<Unlike the U.S., bed and breakfast places tend to be cheaper than  
hotels and are often more convenient. My experiences are over 40  
years old, but some of the barony have made the hop over the pond  
more recently and say the same.
>>
Oh, absolutely. We much preferred the bed and breakfasts as well.  
Nothing like having a host who, when your husband goes to sit and  
read in the lounge so you can take a nap, insists on making your  
husband tea, crumpets, and all the fixings with his own hands. We'd  
been pointed to that particular B&B by the guard at the train  
station in town. Brangwayna


Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:08:37 +1100
From: Zebee Johnstone <zebeej at gmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] Anglo Saxon London
To: "The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list"
	<lochac at lochac.sca.org>

A map of London with some info about place names.
http://londonist.com/2011/02/hand-drawn-maps-anglo-saxon-london.php

This is not, of course, a surviving map but someone's conjecture.

Us antipodeans will probably need maps.google.co.uk in another window
to make much sense of it.

Silfren


Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:29:21 +1100
From: bsrlee <bsrlee2 at pacific.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Anglo Saxon London
To: The Shambles: the SCA Lochac mailing list <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

One you find Westminster Island, the Fleet stream & the Legionary 
Fortress, it all seems to fall into place rather quickly.

regards
Brusi of Orkney

whose ability to navigate around London is limited to  -'If my knees are 
wet, its probably the Thames'.

<the end>
Mark S. Harris	London-msg	Page 31 of 31